<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_15_1928245</id>
	<title>"Pathfinders" Take Shape For Galileo, Europe's GPS</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1258274400000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>oliderid sends along a BBC report on <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8351457.stm">progress toward Europe's home-grown GPS system</a>. The Galileo concept will get an initial test via four "pathfinder" satellites that will be the first in the Galileo constellation. Galileo is intended to be <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/07/07/16/1812244/US-GPS-EU-Galileo-to-Work-Together">complementary with the US GPS system</a> &mdash; when all 30 Galileo birds are flying, a receiver with both GS and Galileo capability should enjoy 1-meter positional accuracy, vs. the several meters available through GPS alone, according to the article. There's a video tour of the facility where the pathfinders are being built. <i>"After all the wrangling, <a href="//science.slashdot.org/story/07/05/08/1731223/Europes-Galileo-Program-In-Serious-Trouble">the delays</a>, and the furor over cost, Europe's version of GPS is finally starting to take shape. Due for launch in pairs in late 2010 and early 2011, the 'pathfinders' will form a mini-constellation in the sky. They will transmit the navigation signals that demonstrate the European system can become a reality."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>oliderid sends along a BBC report on progress toward Europe 's home-grown GPS system .
The Galileo concept will get an initial test via four " pathfinder " satellites that will be the first in the Galileo constellation .
Galileo is intended to be complementary with the US GPS system    when all 30 Galileo birds are flying , a receiver with both GS and Galileo capability should enjoy 1-meter positional accuracy , vs. the several meters available through GPS alone , according to the article .
There 's a video tour of the facility where the pathfinders are being built .
" After all the wrangling , the delays , and the furor over cost , Europe 's version of GPS is finally starting to take shape .
Due for launch in pairs in late 2010 and early 2011 , the 'pathfinders ' will form a mini-constellation in the sky .
They will transmit the navigation signals that demonstrate the European system can become a reality .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>oliderid sends along a BBC report on progress toward Europe's home-grown GPS system.
The Galileo concept will get an initial test via four "pathfinder" satellites that will be the first in the Galileo constellation.
Galileo is intended to be complementary with the US GPS system — when all 30 Galileo birds are flying, a receiver with both GS and Galileo capability should enjoy 1-meter positional accuracy, vs. the several meters available through GPS alone, according to the article.
There's a video tour of the facility where the pathfinders are being built.
"After all the wrangling, the delays, and the furor over cost, Europe's version of GPS is finally starting to take shape.
Due for launch in pairs in late 2010 and early 2011, the 'pathfinders' will form a mini-constellation in the sky.
They will transmit the navigation signals that demonstrate the European system can become a reality.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109270</id>
	<title>EU Vehicle Tracking Plan</title>
	<author>Dr\_Barnowl</author>
	<datestamp>1258282500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They are getting funding from the government.</p><p>1) They want to track all vehicles in the EU. Galileo is designed to have much better performance in urban areas than GPS.</p><p>Proposals were on the UK Department for Transport website which detailed the desire to place a satellite positioning tracker with a cellular modem in every vehicle, by law, for the alleged purpose of "road pricing" ; charging for transit on key congested roads at certain times. Road pricing is horseshit because if having to drive on a congested road isn't sufficient deterrent to stop you doing it, then taxation isn't going to achieve it. You could also achieve the same goal much more cheaply with a mandatory active RFID numberplate and a pickup loop on these "key" roads, so Occams razor says that they want something that doesn't just track your use of certain roads.</p><p>2) Military reasons</p><p>Let's face it. Would you want your military dependant on a system that a culture of well known isolationists who live half a world away can switch off at their whim? Neither would I. Independance from US control is the second motivator.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They are getting funding from the government.1 ) They want to track all vehicles in the EU .
Galileo is designed to have much better performance in urban areas than GPS.Proposals were on the UK Department for Transport website which detailed the desire to place a satellite positioning tracker with a cellular modem in every vehicle , by law , for the alleged purpose of " road pricing " ; charging for transit on key congested roads at certain times .
Road pricing is horseshit because if having to drive on a congested road is n't sufficient deterrent to stop you doing it , then taxation is n't going to achieve it .
You could also achieve the same goal much more cheaply with a mandatory active RFID numberplate and a pickup loop on these " key " roads , so Occams razor says that they want something that does n't just track your use of certain roads.2 ) Military reasonsLet 's face it .
Would you want your military dependant on a system that a culture of well known isolationists who live half a world away can switch off at their whim ?
Neither would I. Independance from US control is the second motivator .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are getting funding from the government.1) They want to track all vehicles in the EU.
Galileo is designed to have much better performance in urban areas than GPS.Proposals were on the UK Department for Transport website which detailed the desire to place a satellite positioning tracker with a cellular modem in every vehicle, by law, for the alleged purpose of "road pricing" ; charging for transit on key congested roads at certain times.
Road pricing is horseshit because if having to drive on a congested road isn't sufficient deterrent to stop you doing it, then taxation isn't going to achieve it.
You could also achieve the same goal much more cheaply with a mandatory active RFID numberplate and a pickup loop on these "key" roads, so Occams razor says that they want something that doesn't just track your use of certain roads.2) Military reasonsLet's face it.
Would you want your military dependant on a system that a culture of well known isolationists who live half a world away can switch off at their whim?
Neither would I. Independance from US control is the second motivator.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30111212</id>
	<title>Re:Funding</title>
	<author>YrWrstNtmr</author>
	<datestamp>1258298940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Funding ? Well, in the Netherlands our government just decided to implement variable road taxes. All cars will get a GPS box that registers where you drive, and at what time, and it will automatically send that data to the central government servers.<br>
The amount of money involved in this taxation plan alone would make it financially feasible to put a complete GPS system up there.</i> <br> <br>Excellent. Bring in a system to monitor every movement, and make the citizens being monitored pay for it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Funding ?
Well , in the Netherlands our government just decided to implement variable road taxes .
All cars will get a GPS box that registers where you drive , and at what time , and it will automatically send that data to the central government servers .
The amount of money involved in this taxation plan alone would make it financially feasible to put a complete GPS system up there .
Excellent. Bring in a system to monitor every movement , and make the citizens being monitored pay for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funding ?
Well, in the Netherlands our government just decided to implement variable road taxes.
All cars will get a GPS box that registers where you drive, and at what time, and it will automatically send that data to the central government servers.
The amount of money involved in this taxation plan alone would make it financially feasible to put a complete GPS system up there.
Excellent. Bring in a system to monitor every movement, and make the citizens being monitored pay for it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109060</id>
	<title>Re:general relativity at work</title>
	<author>Manip</author>
	<datestamp>1258280760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like the subtle derogatory typecasting for "those people on the internet" (who disagree with widely held science). You do realise that if they provide mathematical proofs that they're providing a scientific and intellectual argument and thus should be given the same fair shake as anyone publishing from a Western University.</p><p>It is attitudes like this that drive people away from science.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like the subtle derogatory typecasting for " those people on the internet " ( who disagree with widely held science ) .
You do realise that if they provide mathematical proofs that they 're providing a scientific and intellectual argument and thus should be given the same fair shake as anyone publishing from a Western University.It is attitudes like this that drive people away from science .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like the subtle derogatory typecasting for "those people on the internet" (who disagree with widely held science).
You do realise that if they provide mathematical proofs that they're providing a scientific and intellectual argument and thus should be given the same fair shake as anyone publishing from a Western University.It is attitudes like this that drive people away from science.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109038</id>
	<title>Time service</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258280640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd like to buy a NTP appliance that averages together GPS/Navistar, Galileo, and GLONASS for reliability/precision reasons.</p><p>I know I can buy GPS based NTP appliances off the shelf for years (decades?), but I'm interested in combined devices.</p><p>Obviously Galileo based systems are only vaporware at this time, but someone must have announced something by now?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd like to buy a NTP appliance that averages together GPS/Navistar , Galileo , and GLONASS for reliability/precision reasons.I know I can buy GPS based NTP appliances off the shelf for years ( decades ?
) , but I 'm interested in combined devices.Obviously Galileo based systems are only vaporware at this time , but someone must have announced something by now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd like to buy a NTP appliance that averages together GPS/Navistar, Galileo, and GLONASS for reliability/precision reasons.I know I can buy GPS based NTP appliances off the shelf for years (decades?
), but I'm interested in combined devices.Obviously Galileo based systems are only vaporware at this time, but someone must have announced something by now?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30114000</id>
	<title>Re:Wouldn't it make more sense...</title>
	<author>arethuza</author>
	<datestamp>1258377180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Surely an easier plan would be to set the RIAA on anyone who "pirates" valuable GPS signals without paying the appropriate fees?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely an easier plan would be to set the RIAA on anyone who " pirates " valuable GPS signals without paying the appropriate fees ?
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely an easier plan would be to set the RIAA on anyone who "pirates" valuable GPS signals without paying the appropriate fees?
:-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30111340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30113456</id>
	<title>Re:EU Vehicle Tracking Plan</title>
	<author>jandersen</author>
	<datestamp>1258369980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Road pricing is horseshit because if having to drive on a congested road isn't sufficient deterrent to stop you doing it, then taxation isn't going to achieve it</p></div><p>Except that congestion charging in London has been a resounding success. I remember well how it was to drive down Oxford Street before; you could watch your children grow up in the time it took. So that is one place it has worked.</p><p>Being able to track the movements of vehicles has many merits, which tend to be forgotten by those who hide behind the freedom- and privacy slogans. And it is not only "the government" being able to spy on your every movement, as if they would want to. Personally I would find it very handy if I could go online to check where my car was if it got stolen. Other potential benefits are:</p><p>- being able to put a damper on those people who consistently drive 120 mph on the motorway<br>- giving drivers an incentive for using alternative modes of transport by charging road tax and insurance by the mile<br>- crimefighting would be helped a lot if the whereabouts of cars, mobiles and computers were always known</p><p>Could it be abused by "an authoritarian regime"? Probably, but then so can everything else. The trick is to avoid having that kind of government; if the population could be bothered to keep themselves informed and take part in the political debate, they have it in their power to do just that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Road pricing is horseshit because if having to drive on a congested road is n't sufficient deterrent to stop you doing it , then taxation is n't going to achieve itExcept that congestion charging in London has been a resounding success .
I remember well how it was to drive down Oxford Street before ; you could watch your children grow up in the time it took .
So that is one place it has worked.Being able to track the movements of vehicles has many merits , which tend to be forgotten by those who hide behind the freedom- and privacy slogans .
And it is not only " the government " being able to spy on your every movement , as if they would want to .
Personally I would find it very handy if I could go online to check where my car was if it got stolen .
Other potential benefits are : - being able to put a damper on those people who consistently drive 120 mph on the motorway- giving drivers an incentive for using alternative modes of transport by charging road tax and insurance by the mile- crimefighting would be helped a lot if the whereabouts of cars , mobiles and computers were always knownCould it be abused by " an authoritarian regime " ?
Probably , but then so can everything else .
The trick is to avoid having that kind of government ; if the population could be bothered to keep themselves informed and take part in the political debate , they have it in their power to do just that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Road pricing is horseshit because if having to drive on a congested road isn't sufficient deterrent to stop you doing it, then taxation isn't going to achieve itExcept that congestion charging in London has been a resounding success.
I remember well how it was to drive down Oxford Street before; you could watch your children grow up in the time it took.
So that is one place it has worked.Being able to track the movements of vehicles has many merits, which tend to be forgotten by those who hide behind the freedom- and privacy slogans.
And it is not only "the government" being able to spy on your every movement, as if they would want to.
Personally I would find it very handy if I could go online to check where my car was if it got stolen.
Other potential benefits are:- being able to put a damper on those people who consistently drive 120 mph on the motorway- giving drivers an incentive for using alternative modes of transport by charging road tax and insurance by the mile- crimefighting would be helped a lot if the whereabouts of cars, mobiles and computers were always knownCould it be abused by "an authoritarian regime"?
Probably, but then so can everything else.
The trick is to avoid having that kind of government; if the population could be bothered to keep themselves informed and take part in the political debate, they have it in their power to do just that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30113852</id>
	<title>Re:EU Vehicle Tracking Plan</title>
	<author>DNS-and-BIND</author>
	<datestamp>1258375500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well!  Any country which uses another country's navigation system for military purposes is just asking for it.  It's foolish to the extreme.  Seriously, who would ever stake their country's national security on such a thing?  Incredibly stupid.  Oh yeah, right, it's free and we're lazy.<p>I don't think anyone has called America isolationist since December 7, 1941.  Actually I would welcome some introspective isolationism but then America would get criticized for "turning its back on the world" or something else...it wouldn't even matter, they'd invent something.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well !
Any country which uses another country 's navigation system for military purposes is just asking for it .
It 's foolish to the extreme .
Seriously , who would ever stake their country 's national security on such a thing ?
Incredibly stupid .
Oh yeah , right , it 's free and we 're lazy.I do n't think anyone has called America isolationist since December 7 , 1941 .
Actually I would welcome some introspective isolationism but then America would get criticized for " turning its back on the world " or something else...it would n't even matter , they 'd invent something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well!
Any country which uses another country's navigation system for military purposes is just asking for it.
It's foolish to the extreme.
Seriously, who would ever stake their country's national security on such a thing?
Incredibly stupid.
Oh yeah, right, it's free and we're lazy.I don't think anyone has called America isolationist since December 7, 1941.
Actually I would welcome some introspective isolationism but then America would get criticized for "turning its back on the world" or something else...it wouldn't even matter, they'd invent something.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30114410</id>
	<title>Re:general relativity at work</title>
	<author>Undead NDR</author>
	<datestamp>1258381560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein's theory of general relativity, it wouldn't work. For example, the atomic clocks aboard the satellites run faster because they're higher up in the Earth's gravitational field, and when you're higher in a gravitational field, time flows more quickly.</p></div></blockquote><p>Nonsense. And gravity does not have anything to do with that.</p><p>The onboard clocks run <i>slower</i> (and thus need to be corrected) because, for the satellites to be in a geostationary orbit at that altitude (IOW, to keep the same <i>angular</i> velocity than Earth), they need a <i>linear</i> velocity that's much faster than Earth's.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein 's theory of general relativity , it would n't work .
For example , the atomic clocks aboard the satellites run faster because they 're higher up in the Earth 's gravitational field , and when you 're higher in a gravitational field , time flows more quickly.Nonsense .
And gravity does not have anything to do with that.The onboard clocks run slower ( and thus need to be corrected ) because , for the satellites to be in a geostationary orbit at that altitude ( IOW , to keep the same angular velocity than Earth ) , they need a linear velocity that 's much faster than Earth 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein's theory of general relativity, it wouldn't work.
For example, the atomic clocks aboard the satellites run faster because they're higher up in the Earth's gravitational field, and when you're higher in a gravitational field, time flows more quickly.Nonsense.
And gravity does not have anything to do with that.The onboard clocks run slower (and thus need to be corrected) because, for the satellites to be in a geostationary orbit at that altitude (IOW, to keep the same angular velocity than Earth), they need a linear velocity that's much faster than Earth's.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30111584</id>
	<title>Europe's GPS?</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1258301820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, thanks! And I thought it would be pretty funny, to see a couple of satellites in 17th century clothes, float trough space... )</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , thanks !
And I thought it would be pretty funny , to see a couple of satellites in 17th century clothes , float trough space... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, thanks!
And I thought it would be pretty funny, to see a couple of satellites in 17th century clothes, float trough space... )</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108978</id>
	<title>Re:Funding</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258280220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funding ? Well, in the Netherlands our government just decided to implement variable road taxes. All cars will get a GPS box that registers where you drive, and at what time, and it will automatically send that data to the central government servers.<br>The amount of money involved in this taxation plan alone would make it financially feasible to put a complete GPS system up there.</p><p>Of course security related government agencies will also have full access to the database as well. Believe me, it will get funded.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funding ?
Well , in the Netherlands our government just decided to implement variable road taxes .
All cars will get a GPS box that registers where you drive , and at what time , and it will automatically send that data to the central government servers.The amount of money involved in this taxation plan alone would make it financially feasible to put a complete GPS system up there.Of course security related government agencies will also have full access to the database as well .
Believe me , it will get funded .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funding ?
Well, in the Netherlands our government just decided to implement variable road taxes.
All cars will get a GPS box that registers where you drive, and at what time, and it will automatically send that data to the central government servers.The amount of money involved in this taxation plan alone would make it financially feasible to put a complete GPS system up there.Of course security related government agencies will also have full access to the database as well.
Believe me, it will get funded.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30110046</id>
	<title>They call it Pathfinder?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258288080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought Pathfinder was the project to establish a communications link with Voyager.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought Pathfinder was the project to establish a communications link with Voyager .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought Pathfinder was the project to establish a communications link with Voyager.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30110350</id>
	<title>Re:EU Vehicle Tracking Plan</title>
	<author>mustafap</author>
	<datestamp>1258290300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;Independance from US control is the second motivator.</p><p>Primary motivator. Galileo isn't a UK department for transport initiative, you know. In fact the UK, due to it's low funding, is a bit player. ( I'm from the UK and only got to work on Galileo because I was based in another country at the time )</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Independance from US control is the second motivator.Primary motivator .
Galileo is n't a UK department for transport initiative , you know .
In fact the UK , due to it 's low funding , is a bit player .
( I 'm from the UK and only got to work on Galileo because I was based in another country at the time )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;Independance from US control is the second motivator.Primary motivator.
Galileo isn't a UK department for transport initiative, you know.
In fact the UK, due to it's low funding, is a bit player.
( I'm from the UK and only got to work on Galileo because I was based in another country at the time )</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30112336</id>
	<title>Road pricing is not "horseshit"</title>
	<author>Goonie</author>
	<datestamp>1258310820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Road pricing is horseshit because if having to drive on a congested road isn't sufficient deterrent to stop you doing it, then taxation isn't going to achieve it.</p></div></blockquote><p>I agree that mass vehicle tracking raises very serious privacy concerns, but road pricing does reduce traffic.  You might be interested in the <a href="http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/investorrelations/1458.aspx" title="tfl.gov.uk">Transport For London annual report</a> [tfl.gov.uk], which indicates that traffic in the city is about 20\% lower than it otherwise would be.</p><p>The trouble with your proposal to just track "key" roads is that it encourages traffic to do rat-runs along secondary roads.  I experienced this personally when tolling was brought in on a freeway near my house; the alternative routes were suddenly jam-packed with traffic, particularly at off-peak times when they were previously quiet.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Road pricing is horseshit because if having to drive on a congested road is n't sufficient deterrent to stop you doing it , then taxation is n't going to achieve it.I agree that mass vehicle tracking raises very serious privacy concerns , but road pricing does reduce traffic .
You might be interested in the Transport For London annual report [ tfl.gov.uk ] , which indicates that traffic in the city is about 20 \ % lower than it otherwise would be.The trouble with your proposal to just track " key " roads is that it encourages traffic to do rat-runs along secondary roads .
I experienced this personally when tolling was brought in on a freeway near my house ; the alternative routes were suddenly jam-packed with traffic , particularly at off-peak times when they were previously quiet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Road pricing is horseshit because if having to drive on a congested road isn't sufficient deterrent to stop you doing it, then taxation isn't going to achieve it.I agree that mass vehicle tracking raises very serious privacy concerns, but road pricing does reduce traffic.
You might be interested in the Transport For London annual report [tfl.gov.uk], which indicates that traffic in the city is about 20\% lower than it otherwise would be.The trouble with your proposal to just track "key" roads is that it encourages traffic to do rat-runs along secondary roads.
I experienced this personally when tolling was brought in on a freeway near my house; the alternative routes were suddenly jam-packed with traffic, particularly at off-peak times when they were previously quiet.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30111340</id>
	<title>Re:Wouldn't it make more sense...</title>
	<author>MosesJones</author>
	<datestamp>1258299840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Only if you trust the US to not screw around with it for political reasons.  Imagine Sarah Palin as President, who is to say she wouldn't scramble GPS for France &amp; Germany because they refuse to support her invasion of Canada?  How about if they release those algorithms and keys just to US companies thus undermining European ones (TomTom etc) and say that the keys can only be exported in completed devices.</p><p>The issue with GPS is one of trust and control, simply put the Europeans don't trust the US to play nicely and fair in part because they are funding it.</p><p>And if it sounds far fetched... remember the US used to forbid the export of crypto.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Only if you trust the US to not screw around with it for political reasons .
Imagine Sarah Palin as President , who is to say she would n't scramble GPS for France &amp; Germany because they refuse to support her invasion of Canada ?
How about if they release those algorithms and keys just to US companies thus undermining European ones ( TomTom etc ) and say that the keys can only be exported in completed devices.The issue with GPS is one of trust and control , simply put the Europeans do n't trust the US to play nicely and fair in part because they are funding it.And if it sounds far fetched... remember the US used to forbid the export of crypto .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only if you trust the US to not screw around with it for political reasons.
Imagine Sarah Palin as President, who is to say she wouldn't scramble GPS for France &amp; Germany because they refuse to support her invasion of Canada?
How about if they release those algorithms and keys just to US companies thus undermining European ones (TomTom etc) and say that the keys can only be exported in completed devices.The issue with GPS is one of trust and control, simply put the Europeans don't trust the US to play nicely and fair in part because they are funding it.And if it sounds far fetched... remember the US used to forbid the export of crypto.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30110072</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30114428</id>
	<title>Re:Wouldn't it make more sense...</title>
	<author>jp102235</author>
	<datestamp>1258381680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>its actually worse than that, the US could arbitrarily, in the event of a national emergency, turn OFF gps. And thus before 9/11, the EU wasn't worried about that scenario, after 9/11, they saw that we could and might turn off the GPS system if/when we needed to. -that could wreak havoc in a lot of places...<br><br>J</htmltext>
<tokenext>its actually worse than that , the US could arbitrarily , in the event of a national emergency , turn OFF gps .
And thus before 9/11 , the EU was n't worried about that scenario , after 9/11 , they saw that we could and might turn off the GPS system if/when we needed to .
-that could wreak havoc in a lot of places...J</tokentext>
<sentencetext>its actually worse than that, the US could arbitrarily, in the event of a national emergency, turn OFF gps.
And thus before 9/11, the EU wasn't worried about that scenario, after 9/11, they saw that we could and might turn off the GPS system if/when we needed to.
-that could wreak havoc in a lot of places...J</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30111340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108982</id>
	<title>Re:general relativity at work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258280220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In regards to your signature, what exactly is an "ayer"?</htmltext>
<tokenext>In regards to your signature , what exactly is an " ayer " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In regards to your signature, what exactly is an "ayer"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30114070</id>
	<title>Re:Funding</title>
	<author>molecular</author>
	<datestamp>1258377840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Of course security related government agencies will also have full access to the database as well. Believe me, it will get funded.</p></div><p>Also in germany this is on the way. About time, 1984 is overdue and we need more security from terrorists, child molesters and other scum. Also we can then more easily fine for speeding. And all this on a european scale. Brave new world!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course security related government agencies will also have full access to the database as well .
Believe me , it will get funded.Also in germany this is on the way .
About time , 1984 is overdue and we need more security from terrorists , child molesters and other scum .
Also we can then more easily fine for speeding .
And all this on a european scale .
Brave new world !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course security related government agencies will also have full access to the database as well.
Believe me, it will get funded.Also in germany this is on the way.
About time, 1984 is overdue and we need more security from terrorists, child molesters and other scum.
Also we can then more easily fine for speeding.
And all this on a european scale.
Brave new world!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30113196</id>
	<title>Re:EU Vehicle Tracking Plan</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258365960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Objective 1.a. is to become independent of whatever guy (or gal) who happens to sit in the Whitehouse then next time we have a crisis where the governments of Europe need to use a GP-system. As a side-effect, Galileo will likely push down pricing and up performance of civilian GPS.</p><p>I like it because, as a human being and geek, I want TCAS in my car (and in the cars of all the other idiots on the road) and I may be in the job market for developing TCAS and other satellite- and sensor-based driving aids. Human beings are fundamentally incompetent at repetitious tasks such as driving, so we need systems that help us when we mess up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Objective 1.a .
is to become independent of whatever guy ( or gal ) who happens to sit in the Whitehouse then next time we have a crisis where the governments of Europe need to use a GP-system .
As a side-effect , Galileo will likely push down pricing and up performance of civilian GPS.I like it because , as a human being and geek , I want TCAS in my car ( and in the cars of all the other idiots on the road ) and I may be in the job market for developing TCAS and other satellite- and sensor-based driving aids .
Human beings are fundamentally incompetent at repetitious tasks such as driving , so we need systems that help us when we mess up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Objective 1.a.
is to become independent of whatever guy (or gal) who happens to sit in the Whitehouse then next time we have a crisis where the governments of Europe need to use a GP-system.
As a side-effect, Galileo will likely push down pricing and up performance of civilian GPS.I like it because, as a human being and geek, I want TCAS in my car (and in the cars of all the other idiots on the road) and I may be in the job market for developing TCAS and other satellite- and sensor-based driving aids.
Human beings are fundamentally incompetent at repetitious tasks such as driving, so we need systems that help us when we mess up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30149098</id>
	<title>Re:general relativity at work</title>
	<author>bcrowell</author>
	<datestamp>1257072240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The onboard clocks run slower (and thus need to be corrected) because, for the satellites to be in a geostationary orbit at that altitude (IOW, to keep the same angular velocity than Earth), they need a linear velocity that's much faster than Earth's.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
This is incorrect. The satellites are not geostationary. Also, the gravitational time dilation effect is stronger than the special-relativistic time dilation due to motion, so the net effect is that the clocks run faster. <a href="http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/" title="livingreviews.org">Here</a> [livingreviews.org] is a discussion of the physics. The clocks are tuned to 10.22999999543 MHz, which is perceived on earth's surface as 10.23 MHz.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The onboard clocks run slower ( and thus need to be corrected ) because , for the satellites to be in a geostationary orbit at that altitude ( IOW , to keep the same angular velocity than Earth ) , they need a linear velocity that 's much faster than Earth 's .
This is incorrect .
The satellites are not geostationary .
Also , the gravitational time dilation effect is stronger than the special-relativistic time dilation due to motion , so the net effect is that the clocks run faster .
Here [ livingreviews.org ] is a discussion of the physics .
The clocks are tuned to 10.22999999543 MHz , which is perceived on earth 's surface as 10.23 MHz .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The onboard clocks run slower (and thus need to be corrected) because, for the satellites to be in a geostationary orbit at that altitude (IOW, to keep the same angular velocity than Earth), they need a linear velocity that's much faster than Earth's.
This is incorrect.
The satellites are not geostationary.
Also, the gravitational time dilation effect is stronger than the special-relativistic time dilation due to motion, so the net effect is that the clocks run faster.
Here [livingreviews.org] is a discussion of the physics.
The clocks are tuned to 10.22999999543 MHz, which is perceived on earth's surface as 10.23 MHz.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30114410</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109592</id>
	<title>Re:EU Vehicle Tracking Plan</title>
	<author>Beretta Vexe</author>
	<datestamp>1258284720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The military reasons are not so clear, both GPS and Galileo are operated by NATO members, they even reached a compromise, that Galileo was to use a different frequency. So you can jam one without degrading your own military signal in the pretty improbable case of a war where both side don't agrees to block they civilian signal.</p><p>The first version of the project with a Galileo signal on exactly the same frequency of the GPS to prevent discriminated jamming had a real military interest ( if you jam my signal you jam your too, we both end blind ).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The military reasons are not so clear , both GPS and Galileo are operated by NATO members , they even reached a compromise , that Galileo was to use a different frequency .
So you can jam one without degrading your own military signal in the pretty improbable case of a war where both side do n't agrees to block they civilian signal.The first version of the project with a Galileo signal on exactly the same frequency of the GPS to prevent discriminated jamming had a real military interest ( if you jam my signal you jam your too , we both end blind ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The military reasons are not so clear, both GPS and Galileo are operated by NATO members, they even reached a compromise, that Galileo was to use a different frequency.
So you can jam one without degrading your own military signal in the pretty improbable case of a war where both side don't agrees to block they civilian signal.The first version of the project with a Galileo signal on exactly the same frequency of the GPS to prevent discriminated jamming had a real military interest ( if you jam my signal you jam your too, we both end blind ).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30110072</id>
	<title>Wouldn't it make more sense...</title>
	<author>shaitand</author>
	<datestamp>1258288380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seeing as civilian technologies have been demonstrated to get around the artificial limitation in the accuracy of GPS wouldn't it make more sense for the U.S. military to just allow access to the full precision signal to civilians?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seeing as civilian technologies have been demonstrated to get around the artificial limitation in the accuracy of GPS would n't it make more sense for the U.S. military to just allow access to the full precision signal to civilians ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seeing as civilian technologies have been demonstrated to get around the artificial limitation in the accuracy of GPS wouldn't it make more sense for the U.S. military to just allow access to the full precision signal to civilians?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30113862</id>
	<title>Re:EU Vehicle Tracking Plan</title>
	<author>AmiMoJo</author>
	<datestamp>1258375560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why bother spending billions on a satellite system when they already record all journeys on traffic cameras combined with numberplate recognition?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why bother spending billions on a satellite system when they already record all journeys on traffic cameras combined with numberplate recognition ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why bother spending billions on a satellite system when they already record all journeys on traffic cameras combined with numberplate recognition?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30112754</id>
	<title>The more, the better.</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1258403160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
This is good.  High-precision GPS, which requires seeing 5 or more satellites, is intermittent in urban canyon situations.
With the ability to use GPS, GLONASS, and Galileo signals, the odds of having five sats high in your local sky improve substantially.   The high-precision (15cm) receivers will be less flakey.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is good .
High-precision GPS , which requires seeing 5 or more satellites , is intermittent in urban canyon situations .
With the ability to use GPS , GLONASS , and Galileo signals , the odds of having five sats high in your local sky improve substantially .
The high-precision ( 15cm ) receivers will be less flakey .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
This is good.
High-precision GPS, which requires seeing 5 or more satellites, is intermittent in urban canyon situations.
With the ability to use GPS, GLONASS, and Galileo signals, the odds of having five sats high in your local sky improve substantially.
The high-precision (15cm) receivers will be less flakey.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108748</id>
	<title>Funding</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258278720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>How are they getting funding? As recently as yesterday I was reading about how it was pretty much an orphaned project because no one wanted to buy what was already available for free (albeit less reliably). I skimmed TFA and found nothing on the matter.

No matter how they funded it (unless they sold some babies or something), I'm glad they are moving forward on this. I see this as being really good for Europe, and the space industry in general.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How are they getting funding ?
As recently as yesterday I was reading about how it was pretty much an orphaned project because no one wanted to buy what was already available for free ( albeit less reliably ) .
I skimmed TFA and found nothing on the matter .
No matter how they funded it ( unless they sold some babies or something ) , I 'm glad they are moving forward on this .
I see this as being really good for Europe , and the space industry in general .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How are they getting funding?
As recently as yesterday I was reading about how it was pretty much an orphaned project because no one wanted to buy what was already available for free (albeit less reliably).
I skimmed TFA and found nothing on the matter.
No matter how they funded it (unless they sold some babies or something), I'm glad they are moving forward on this.
I see this as being really good for Europe, and the space industry in general.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108960</id>
	<title>Let anti-European comments begin in..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258280100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>3 2 1<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>3 2 1 .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>3 2 1 ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109802</id>
	<title>Re:Time service</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258286400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the precision of any of these systems is much higher then NTP; there's no point.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the precision of any of these systems is much higher then NTP ; there 's no point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the precision of any of these systems is much higher then NTP; there's no point.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108662</id>
	<title>fp</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258278180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>eat my asshole you cocksucking faggots!
<p>
I'm Tucker Max and I always win.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>eat my asshole you cocksucking faggots !
I 'm Tucker Max and I always win .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>eat my asshole you cocksucking faggots!
I'm Tucker Max and I always win.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108974</id>
	<title>Re:general relativity at work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258280160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein's theory of general relativity, it wouldn't work.</p></div><p>Oh, it would work just fine alright, in fact it would be a heck of a lot simpler to build and maintain, and probably somewhat cheaper, too.  The folks that built the satellites and the base station that sets each satellite clock would have much less headache.</p><p>See:</p><p><a href="http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp" title="metaresearch.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp</a> [metaresearch.org]</p><p>which claims to be a rehash of a chapter of the book "Open Questions in Relativistic Physics"</p><p>"Rather than have clocks with such large rate differences, the satellite clocks are reset in rate before launch to compensate for these predicted effects<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... Therefore, we observe the clocks running at their offset rates before launch. Then we observe the clocks running after launch and compare their rates with the predictions of relativity, both GR and SR combined. If the predictions are right, we should see the clocks run again at nearly the same rates as ground clocks, despite using an offset definition for the length of one second."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein 's theory of general relativity , it would n't work.Oh , it would work just fine alright , in fact it would be a heck of a lot simpler to build and maintain , and probably somewhat cheaper , too .
The folks that built the satellites and the base station that sets each satellite clock would have much less headache.See : http : //www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp [ metaresearch.org ] which claims to be a rehash of a chapter of the book " Open Questions in Relativistic Physics " " Rather than have clocks with such large rate differences , the satellite clocks are reset in rate before launch to compensate for these predicted effects .... Therefore , we observe the clocks running at their offset rates before launch .
Then we observe the clocks running after launch and compare their rates with the predictions of relativity , both GR and SR combined .
If the predictions are right , we should see the clocks run again at nearly the same rates as ground clocks , despite using an offset definition for the length of one second .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein's theory of general relativity, it wouldn't work.Oh, it would work just fine alright, in fact it would be a heck of a lot simpler to build and maintain, and probably somewhat cheaper, too.
The folks that built the satellites and the base station that sets each satellite clock would have much less headache.See:http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gps-relativity.asp [metaresearch.org]which claims to be a rehash of a chapter of the book "Open Questions in Relativistic Physics""Rather than have clocks with such large rate differences, the satellite clocks are reset in rate before launch to compensate for these predicted effects .... Therefore, we observe the clocks running at their offset rates before launch.
Then we observe the clocks running after launch and compare their rates with the predictions of relativity, both GR and SR combined.
If the predictions are right, we should see the clocks run again at nearly the same rates as ground clocks, despite using an offset definition for the length of one second.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30123550</id>
	<title>Re:Road pricing is not "horseshit"</title>
	<author>RockDoctor</author>
	<datestamp>1258374240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The trouble with your proposal to just track "key" roads is that it encourages traffic to do rat-runs along secondary roads. I experienced this personally when tolling was brought in on a freeway near my house; the alternative routes were suddenly jam-packed with traffic, particularly at off-peak times when they were previously quiet.</p></div></blockquote><p>The house I've lived in for 16-and-a-bit years is within sight of two solutions to this problem : the roads that could be linked up to make a rat run around the local congestion point are blocked off by bollards, so that cars can't drive around them ; more recently, the roads have had "speed humps" added to them which make driving at more than 25km/h an exhaust- and underpan- scraping exercise. Which pretty effectively stops rat-running. From my front door to the "open road" is 11 sets of bumps one way and 13 the other (shorter) way.</p><p>Needless to say, when I brought a GPS (well, technically, the wife brought it for my birthday) navigation system for the car, with a year's updates to the mapping of road obstructions and speed cameras, the device insists on directing me down these roads that have been blocked-off for at least 17 years. Which was not a surprise.<br>So, now you know what level of accuracy to expect from "Road Angel" mapping. We call the squawking voice from the dashboard the "deranged crack addict", on the grounds of it's degree of connection with reality.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The trouble with your proposal to just track " key " roads is that it encourages traffic to do rat-runs along secondary roads .
I experienced this personally when tolling was brought in on a freeway near my house ; the alternative routes were suddenly jam-packed with traffic , particularly at off-peak times when they were previously quiet.The house I 've lived in for 16-and-a-bit years is within sight of two solutions to this problem : the roads that could be linked up to make a rat run around the local congestion point are blocked off by bollards , so that cars ca n't drive around them ; more recently , the roads have had " speed humps " added to them which make driving at more than 25km/h an exhaust- and underpan- scraping exercise .
Which pretty effectively stops rat-running .
From my front door to the " open road " is 11 sets of bumps one way and 13 the other ( shorter ) way.Needless to say , when I brought a GPS ( well , technically , the wife brought it for my birthday ) navigation system for the car , with a year 's updates to the mapping of road obstructions and speed cameras , the device insists on directing me down these roads that have been blocked-off for at least 17 years .
Which was not a surprise.So , now you know what level of accuracy to expect from " Road Angel " mapping .
We call the squawking voice from the dashboard the " deranged crack addict " , on the grounds of it 's degree of connection with reality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The trouble with your proposal to just track "key" roads is that it encourages traffic to do rat-runs along secondary roads.
I experienced this personally when tolling was brought in on a freeway near my house; the alternative routes were suddenly jam-packed with traffic, particularly at off-peak times when they were previously quiet.The house I've lived in for 16-and-a-bit years is within sight of two solutions to this problem : the roads that could be linked up to make a rat run around the local congestion point are blocked off by bollards, so that cars can't drive around them ; more recently, the roads have had "speed humps" added to them which make driving at more than 25km/h an exhaust- and underpan- scraping exercise.
Which pretty effectively stops rat-running.
From my front door to the "open road" is 11 sets of bumps one way and 13 the other (shorter) way.Needless to say, when I brought a GPS (well, technically, the wife brought it for my birthday) navigation system for the car, with a year's updates to the mapping of road obstructions and speed cameras, the device insists on directing me down these roads that have been blocked-off for at least 17 years.
Which was not a surprise.So, now you know what level of accuracy to expect from "Road Angel" mapping.
We call the squawking voice from the dashboard the "deranged crack addict", on the grounds of it's degree of connection with reality.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30112336</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30114700</id>
	<title>Re:Wouldn't it make more sense...</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1258383960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"kill switches" in military equipment are SOP and hit the news here recently. on the other hand, trying to paint "the europeans" as one group is as ridiculous as the idea that the EU can accurately represent all its members. You talk about the US government banning export of crypto? Until recently, it was illegal to use almost any cryptography at all in France.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" kill switches " in military equipment are SOP and hit the news here recently .
on the other hand , trying to paint " the europeans " as one group is as ridiculous as the idea that the EU can accurately represent all its members .
You talk about the US government banning export of crypto ?
Until recently , it was illegal to use almost any cryptography at all in France .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"kill switches" in military equipment are SOP and hit the news here recently.
on the other hand, trying to paint "the europeans" as one group is as ridiculous as the idea that the EU can accurately represent all its members.
You talk about the US government banning export of crypto?
Until recently, it was illegal to use almost any cryptography at all in France.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30111340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108854</id>
	<title>general relativity at work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258279320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein's theory of general relativity, it wouldn't work. For example, the atomic clocks aboard the satellites run faster because they're higher up in the Earth's gravitational field, and when you're higher in a gravitational field, time flows more quickly. If they didn't compensate for this effect (and a bunch of others), the system wouldn't work at all. Of course you can still find kooks on the internet who think that relativity is all wrong, and have mathematical proofs to that effect. I wonder if those people refrain from using GPS?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein 's theory of general relativity , it would n't work .
For example , the atomic clocks aboard the satellites run faster because they 're higher up in the Earth 's gravitational field , and when you 're higher in a gravitational field , time flows more quickly .
If they did n't compensate for this effect ( and a bunch of others ) , the system would n't work at all .
Of course you can still find kooks on the internet who think that relativity is all wrong , and have mathematical proofs to that effect .
I wonder if those people refrain from using GPS ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein's theory of general relativity, it wouldn't work.
For example, the atomic clocks aboard the satellites run faster because they're higher up in the Earth's gravitational field, and when you're higher in a gravitational field, time flows more quickly.
If they didn't compensate for this effect (and a bunch of others), the system wouldn't work at all.
Of course you can still find kooks on the internet who think that relativity is all wrong, and have mathematical proofs to that effect.
I wonder if those people refrain from using GPS?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30118506</id>
	<title>That's not really how SA works</title>
	<author>sean.peters</author>
	<datestamp>1258399080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Imagine Sarah Palin as President, who is to say she wouldn't scramble GPS for France &amp; Germany because they refuse to support her invasion of Canada?</p></div></blockquote><p>That's really not how selective availability works. You can't just enable SA for certain people - it's either on (in which case nobody but those with the encryption keys gets it, which would black out high precision GPS for all commercial receivers, world wide), or it's off (in which case everyone gets the unencrypted signal). You can't just punish individual countries.</p><p>And it's moot anyway, as many of the satellites currently orbiting, and all the new ones, don't even include the feature. I doubt it's even possible to turn on SA at this point.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine Sarah Palin as President , who is to say she would n't scramble GPS for France &amp; Germany because they refuse to support her invasion of Canada ? That 's really not how selective availability works .
You ca n't just enable SA for certain people - it 's either on ( in which case nobody but those with the encryption keys gets it , which would black out high precision GPS for all commercial receivers , world wide ) , or it 's off ( in which case everyone gets the unencrypted signal ) .
You ca n't just punish individual countries.And it 's moot anyway , as many of the satellites currently orbiting , and all the new ones , do n't even include the feature .
I doubt it 's even possible to turn on SA at this point .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine Sarah Palin as President, who is to say she wouldn't scramble GPS for France &amp; Germany because they refuse to support her invasion of Canada?That's really not how selective availability works.
You can't just enable SA for certain people - it's either on (in which case nobody but those with the encryption keys gets it, which would black out high precision GPS for all commercial receivers, world wide), or it's off (in which case everyone gets the unencrypted signal).
You can't just punish individual countries.And it's moot anyway, as many of the satellites currently orbiting, and all the new ones, don't even include the feature.
I doubt it's even possible to turn on SA at this point.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30111340</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30113086</id>
	<title>Re:general relativity at work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258364400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein's theory of general relativity, it wouldn't work</i></p><p>Neither would the rest of the universe. Well without the physical rules which the model of general relativity approximates. As for the model itself, the universe (including any GPS equipment) ticks along just fine without the theory. The GPS units would just always be wrong (and so not terribly useful)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein 's theory of general relativity , it would n't workNeither would the rest of the universe .
Well without the physical rules which the model of general relativity approximates .
As for the model itself , the universe ( including any GPS equipment ) ticks along just fine without the theory .
The GPS units would just always be wrong ( and so not terribly useful )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I think is really cool about GPS is that without Einstein's theory of general relativity, it wouldn't workNeither would the rest of the universe.
Well without the physical rules which the model of general relativity approximates.
As for the model itself, the universe (including any GPS equipment) ticks along just fine without the theory.
The GPS units would just always be wrong (and so not terribly useful)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108854</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109374</id>
	<title>Re:Time service</title>
	<author>fenring</author>
	<datestamp>1258283220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, that depends on how much money you would put into such a system. For example, <a href="http://www.trimble.com/trimbler8gnss.shtml" title="trimble.com" rel="nofollow">Trimble R8 GNSS Receiver</a> [trimble.com] supports all GPS, GLONASS and future Galileo signals. In Europe you could buy such a receiver with ~10000 Euros.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , that depends on how much money you would put into such a system .
For example , Trimble R8 GNSS Receiver [ trimble.com ] supports all GPS , GLONASS and future Galileo signals .
In Europe you could buy such a receiver with ~ 10000 Euros .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, that depends on how much money you would put into such a system.
For example, Trimble R8 GNSS Receiver [trimble.com] supports all GPS, GLONASS and future Galileo signals.
In Europe you could buy such a receiver with ~10000 Euros.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30114204</id>
	<title>ACES to follow Gravity Probe B</title>
	<author>Sam Lowry</author>
	<datestamp>1258379220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Even after <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity\_Probe\_B" title="wikipedia.org">Gravity Probe B</a> [wikipedia.org], some issues remain, and ESA is planning to send to space the <a href="http://www.spaceflight.esa.int/projects/index.cfm?act=default.page&amp;level=12&amp;page=829" title="esa.int">ACES</a> [esa.int] clocks to settle of some long-standing debates.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even after Gravity Probe B [ wikipedia.org ] , some issues remain , and ESA is planning to send to space the ACES [ esa.int ] clocks to settle of some long-standing debates .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even after Gravity Probe B [wikipedia.org], some issues remain, and ESA is planning to send to space the ACES [esa.int] clocks to settle of some long-standing debates.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30111656</id>
	<title>Re:general relativity at work</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1258302480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Omg you are so wrong, it's not even funny!</p><p>The clocks run FASTER in general, in a higher orbit. Even height variations in the orbit count.</p><p>So one *has* to calculate that effect it. No getting around it.<br>And what I think is usually done, is run the clocks faster by the predictable amount, and then do small corrections for the unpredictable factors.</p><p>I don't know where you got the idea that it would only be launching creating an initial offset. But you are really, *really* wrong there. Sorry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Omg you are so wrong , it 's not even funny ! The clocks run FASTER in general , in a higher orbit .
Even height variations in the orbit count.So one * has * to calculate that effect it .
No getting around it.And what I think is usually done , is run the clocks faster by the predictable amount , and then do small corrections for the unpredictable factors.I do n't know where you got the idea that it would only be launching creating an initial offset .
But you are really , * really * wrong there .
Sorry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Omg you are so wrong, it's not even funny!The clocks run FASTER in general, in a higher orbit.
Even height variations in the orbit count.So one *has* to calculate that effect it.
No getting around it.And what I think is usually done, is run the clocks faster by the predictable amount, and then do small corrections for the unpredictable factors.I don't know where you got the idea that it would only be launching creating an initial offset.
But you are really, *really* wrong there.
Sorry.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108974</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109378</id>
	<title>Re:Time service</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258283280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A gps time source is only off by a handful of ns.  You then want to send that time over NTP and add milliseconds of year?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A gps time source is only off by a handful of ns .
You then want to send that time over NTP and add milliseconds of year ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A gps time source is only off by a handful of ns.
You then want to send that time over NTP and add milliseconds of year?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30110410</id>
	<title>Hint: it says moo</title>
	<author>fche</author>
	<datestamp>1258290660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why, from "unspent agricultural subsidies", of course.<br><a href="http://www.spacetoday.net/Summary/3994" title="spacetoday.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.spacetoday.net/Summary/3994</a> [spacetoday.net]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why , from " unspent agricultural subsidies " , of course.http : //www.spacetoday.net/Summary/3994 [ spacetoday.net ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why, from "unspent agricultural subsidies", of course.http://www.spacetoday.net/Summary/3994 [spacetoday.net]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30110346</id>
	<title>Re:EU Vehicle Tracking Plan</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258290240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's not about "key" roads. It's about *all* roads.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not about " key " roads .
It 's about * all * roads .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not about "key" roads.
It's about *all* roads.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109270</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108874</id>
	<title>Re:Funding</title>
	<author>Zoxed</author>
	<datestamp>1258279440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; How are they getting funding? As recently as yesterday I was reading about how it was pretty much an orphaned project because no one wanted to buy what was already available for free (albeit less reliably).</p><p>I can not remember the full story, but the industry funding arguments dragged along for years, and in the end the EU took over funding of the project (it was too high profile to fail !!).</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo\_(satellite\_navigation)" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo\_(satellite\_navigation)</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; How are they getting funding ?
As recently as yesterday I was reading about how it was pretty much an orphaned project because no one wanted to buy what was already available for free ( albeit less reliably ) .I can not remember the full story , but the industry funding arguments dragged along for years , and in the end the EU took over funding of the project ( it was too high profile to fail ! !
) .http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo \ _ ( satellite \ _navigation ) [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; How are they getting funding?
As recently as yesterday I was reading about how it was pretty much an orphaned project because no one wanted to buy what was already available for free (albeit less reliably).I can not remember the full story, but the industry funding arguments dragged along for years, and in the end the EU took over funding of the project (it was too high profile to fail !!
).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo\_(satellite\_navigation) [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30108748</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30111456</id>
	<title>Re:EU Vehicle Tracking Plan</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258300740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;Let's face it. Would you want your military dependant on a system that a culture of well known isolationists who live half a world away can switch off at their whim?</p><p>Like European countries, the US was isolationist up to World War 2.  But for the years after WW2, calling the US "isolationist" is just some tongue-in-cheek emotional reaction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; Let 's face it .
Would you want your military dependant on a system that a culture of well known isolationists who live half a world away can switch off at their whim ? Like European countries , the US was isolationist up to World War 2 .
But for the years after WW2 , calling the US " isolationist " is just some tongue-in-cheek emotional reaction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;Let's face it.
Would you want your military dependant on a system that a culture of well known isolationists who live half a world away can switch off at their whim?Like European countries, the US was isolationist up to World War 2.
But for the years after WW2, calling the US "isolationist" is just some tongue-in-cheek emotional reaction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_15_1928245.30109270</parent>
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