<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_14_1936200</id>
	<title>Hackers Fail To Crack Brazilian Voting Machines</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1258224900000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>blueser writes <i>"From Nov 10th to Nov 13th the Brazilian Government hosted a public hacking contest to test the robustness of its voting machines. 38 participants from private and public IT companies (including the Brazilian Federal Police) were divided into 9 teams, which tried several different approaches to try to tamper with the software installed on the machines, and even to physically interfere in other stages of the process. All attempts (aside from a minor one which would not compromise the overall results) failed, and observations from the participants and neutral observers will be taken into account to improve the process even further. Here is the <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&amp;hl=en&amp;js=y&amp;u=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fwww.tse.gov.br\%2Finternet\%2Feleicoes\%2Fteste\_seguranca.htm&amp;sl=pt&amp;tl=en&amp;history\_state0=">official announcement for the contest</a> (Google translation; <a href="http://www.tse.gov.br/internet/eleicoes/teste\_seguranca.htm">Portuguese original</a>). A <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&amp;hl=en&amp;js=y&amp;u=http\%3A\%2F\%2Foglobo.globo.com\%2Fpais\%2Fmat\%2F2009\%2F11\%2F13\%2Ftse-urnas-eletronicas-resistem-tentativas-de-fraudes-apos-quatro-dias-de-testes-com-hackers-especialistas-914751763.asp&amp;sl=pt&amp;tl=en&amp;history\_state0=">summary of the results</a> is available in the Brazilian press (<a href="http://oglobo.globo.com/pais/mat/2009/11/13/tse-urnas-eletronicas-resistem-tentativas-de-fraudes-apos-quatro-dias-de-testes-com-hackers-especialistas-914751763.asp">original</a>). Brazilian voting machines <a href="//linux.slashdot.org/story/08/10/14/1829242/Linux-On-Brazilian-Voting-Machines-the-Video">use Linux</a>."</i> US voting officials ought to be envious of their Brazilian counterparts, or ashamed, or both. Perhaps this <a href="http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/rivest-voting.html">MIT-developed cryptographic voting system</a> offers a way forward.</htmltext>
<tokenext>blueser writes " From Nov 10th to Nov 13th the Brazilian Government hosted a public hacking contest to test the robustness of its voting machines .
38 participants from private and public IT companies ( including the Brazilian Federal Police ) were divided into 9 teams , which tried several different approaches to try to tamper with the software installed on the machines , and even to physically interfere in other stages of the process .
All attempts ( aside from a minor one which would not compromise the overall results ) failed , and observations from the participants and neutral observers will be taken into account to improve the process even further .
Here is the official announcement for the contest ( Google translation ; Portuguese original ) .
A summary of the results is available in the Brazilian press ( original ) .
Brazilian voting machines use Linux .
" US voting officials ought to be envious of their Brazilian counterparts , or ashamed , or both .
Perhaps this MIT-developed cryptographic voting system offers a way forward .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>blueser writes "From Nov 10th to Nov 13th the Brazilian Government hosted a public hacking contest to test the robustness of its voting machines.
38 participants from private and public IT companies (including the Brazilian Federal Police) were divided into 9 teams, which tried several different approaches to try to tamper with the software installed on the machines, and even to physically interfere in other stages of the process.
All attempts (aside from a minor one which would not compromise the overall results) failed, and observations from the participants and neutral observers will be taken into account to improve the process even further.
Here is the official announcement for the contest (Google translation; Portuguese original).
A summary of the results is available in the Brazilian press (original).
Brazilian voting machines use Linux.
" US voting officials ought to be envious of their Brazilian counterparts, or ashamed, or both.
Perhaps this MIT-developed cryptographic voting system offers a way forward.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105850</id>
	<title>Proves nothing</title>
	<author>dskoll</author>
	<datestamp>1258303140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While cracking the machines would prove that they are insecure, failing to crack them proves nothing.  It only proves that one group of people at a particular time couldn't crack them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While cracking the machines would prove that they are insecure , failing to crack them proves nothing .
It only proves that one group of people at a particular time could n't crack them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While cracking the machines would prove that they are insecure, failing to crack them proves nothing.
It only proves that one group of people at a particular time couldn't crack them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30107522</id>
	<title>What has democracy become?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258314960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've traveled a fair bit and I can tell you that there is a fair range of very distinctive political systems in the world that are all rubber stamped as democracies. Some of these democracies would not look like much of a democracy to us in the West.</p><p>It is important to note that the system we have today was conceived hundreds of years ago when philosophers started looking for something better than Absolute Monarchies. Back in the 1500s, everybody assumed that it was a natural thing for a country to have a King and for the monarch to have absolute power. We laugh at them today. Will there be people laughing at us in the future?</p><p>I think the biggest advantage of advancing efforts in the area of electronic voting is increased representation. Today, we elect a dude who goes to Washington and we don't hear much from him for the next few years until he comes back to us asking for more votes. We have very little representation as voters. It is even worse in the case of Presidential elections since our system (i.e., USA) does not follow a policy of one-man-one-vote. Therefore, our representation in Washington is minimal. It would be better if we as a population could vote more often and an electronic system could help with that. I don't know what the solution is but I would like to see more popular representation in Washington. I don't think We, the people, would have voted to pay with our hard-earned dollars for a bail-out to every major financial institution in this country. Would we?</p><p>PS: After Florida 2000, we in the US can't say crap about any other voting system in the World.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've traveled a fair bit and I can tell you that there is a fair range of very distinctive political systems in the world that are all rubber stamped as democracies .
Some of these democracies would not look like much of a democracy to us in the West.It is important to note that the system we have today was conceived hundreds of years ago when philosophers started looking for something better than Absolute Monarchies .
Back in the 1500s , everybody assumed that it was a natural thing for a country to have a King and for the monarch to have absolute power .
We laugh at them today .
Will there be people laughing at us in the future ? I think the biggest advantage of advancing efforts in the area of electronic voting is increased representation .
Today , we elect a dude who goes to Washington and we do n't hear much from him for the next few years until he comes back to us asking for more votes .
We have very little representation as voters .
It is even worse in the case of Presidential elections since our system ( i.e. , USA ) does not follow a policy of one-man-one-vote .
Therefore , our representation in Washington is minimal .
It would be better if we as a population could vote more often and an electronic system could help with that .
I do n't know what the solution is but I would like to see more popular representation in Washington .
I do n't think We , the people , would have voted to pay with our hard-earned dollars for a bail-out to every major financial institution in this country .
Would we ? PS : After Florida 2000 , we in the US ca n't say crap about any other voting system in the World .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've traveled a fair bit and I can tell you that there is a fair range of very distinctive political systems in the world that are all rubber stamped as democracies.
Some of these democracies would not look like much of a democracy to us in the West.It is important to note that the system we have today was conceived hundreds of years ago when philosophers started looking for something better than Absolute Monarchies.
Back in the 1500s, everybody assumed that it was a natural thing for a country to have a King and for the monarch to have absolute power.
We laugh at them today.
Will there be people laughing at us in the future?I think the biggest advantage of advancing efforts in the area of electronic voting is increased representation.
Today, we elect a dude who goes to Washington and we don't hear much from him for the next few years until he comes back to us asking for more votes.
We have very little representation as voters.
It is even worse in the case of Presidential elections since our system (i.e., USA) does not follow a policy of one-man-one-vote.
Therefore, our representation in Washington is minimal.
It would be better if we as a population could vote more often and an electronic system could help with that.
I don't know what the solution is but I would like to see more popular representation in Washington.
I don't think We, the people, would have voted to pay with our hard-earned dollars for a bail-out to every major financial institution in this country.
Would we?PS: After Florida 2000, we in the US can't say crap about any other voting system in the World.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105404</id>
	<title>Ridiculous prize</title>
	<author>BoppreH</author>
	<datestamp>1258297020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's important to note that the prize for the winner is of just R$ 5.000, a little under $ 3.000. This certainly scared most experts away.<br> <br>On a side note, you guys have just  slashdotted our fucking Superior Election Court website. I hope you are happy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's important to note that the prize for the winner is of just R $ 5.000 , a little under $ 3.000 .
This certainly scared most experts away .
On a side note , you guys have just slashdotted our fucking Superior Election Court website .
I hope you are happy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's important to note that the prize for the winner is of just R$ 5.000, a little under $ 3.000.
This certainly scared most experts away.
On a side note, you guys have just  slashdotted our fucking Superior Election Court website.
I hope you are happy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30200968</id>
	<title>Attack of the Clones</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258984920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my reading on the subject (I follow the Brazilian interest group run by Amilcar) I find that the most likely actual case of election fraud in recent years involved cloning of the machines by duplicating the card. This was observed in the statewide election of 2006 in Alagoas (a very weird place to be from). You just let voters enter their votes on one machine, then deliver another machine with the same serial number but different votes to the tallying authority. This gambit is helped along by the fact that precinct authorities transport the machines containing the votes to the center in a police car. The police are a major source of corruption of all kinds in Brazil<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and how.</p><p>In Alagoas, investigators found duplicate machine cards and other physical equipment partially burned out behind the warehouse of the company to which machine set-up was outsourced for that election. The ownership structure of the outsourcer is pretty interesting, too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my reading on the subject ( I follow the Brazilian interest group run by Amilcar ) I find that the most likely actual case of election fraud in recent years involved cloning of the machines by duplicating the card .
This was observed in the statewide election of 2006 in Alagoas ( a very weird place to be from ) .
You just let voters enter their votes on one machine , then deliver another machine with the same serial number but different votes to the tallying authority .
This gambit is helped along by the fact that precinct authorities transport the machines containing the votes to the center in a police car .
The police are a major source of corruption of all kinds in Brazil ... and how.In Alagoas , investigators found duplicate machine cards and other physical equipment partially burned out behind the warehouse of the company to which machine set-up was outsourced for that election .
The ownership structure of the outsourcer is pretty interesting , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my reading on the subject (I follow the Brazilian interest group run by Amilcar) I find that the most likely actual case of election fraud in recent years involved cloning of the machines by duplicating the card.
This was observed in the statewide election of 2006 in Alagoas (a very weird place to be from).
You just let voters enter their votes on one machine, then deliver another machine with the same serial number but different votes to the tallying authority.
This gambit is helped along by the fact that precinct authorities transport the machines containing the votes to the center in a police car.
The police are a major source of corruption of all kinds in Brazil ... and how.In Alagoas, investigators found duplicate machine cards and other physical equipment partially burned out behind the warehouse of the company to which machine set-up was outsourced for that election.
The ownership structure of the outsourcer is pretty interesting, too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30109840</id>
	<title>the truth</title>
	<author>CHRONOSS2008</author>
	<datestamp>1258286700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the truth is that any REAL self respected actual hacker wont ever get involved with govt<br>and they think its safe and secure start suing it and learn what the NDP party and the liberal and conservative parties all learned in Canada , about computerized vote systems</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the truth is that any REAL self respected actual hacker wont ever get involved with govtand they think its safe and secure start suing it and learn what the NDP party and the liberal and conservative parties all learned in Canada , about computerized vote systems</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the truth is that any REAL self respected actual hacker wont ever get involved with govtand they think its safe and secure start suing it and learn what the NDP party and the liberal and conservative parties all learned in Canada , about computerized vote systems</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104726</id>
	<title>What is the threat model?</title>
	<author>Beryllium Sphere(tm)</author>
	<datestamp>1258276380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is this exercise realistic given the need to protect against well hidden back doors, tampering by election officials, and sloppy procedures (like letting a vendor install uncertified patches just before an election)? They tested only a narrow range of dangers.</p><p>The right way to do something like this is at design time.</p><p>They deserve credit, though, for doing things so much better than the US.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this exercise realistic given the need to protect against well hidden back doors , tampering by election officials , and sloppy procedures ( like letting a vendor install uncertified patches just before an election ) ?
They tested only a narrow range of dangers.The right way to do something like this is at design time.They deserve credit , though , for doing things so much better than the US .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this exercise realistic given the need to protect against well hidden back doors, tampering by election officials, and sloppy procedures (like letting a vendor install uncertified patches just before an election)?
They tested only a narrow range of dangers.The right way to do something like this is at design time.They deserve credit, though, for doing things so much better than the US.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550</id>
	<title>for what it is worth...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258316280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cracking contests are warning sign number 9 on <a href="http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-9902.html#snakeoil" title="schneier.com">Bruce Schneier's list of security snake oil warnings.</a> [schneier.com] </p><blockquote><div><p>Warning Sign #9: Cracking contests.</p><p>I wrote about this at length last December: . For now, suffice it to say that cracking contests are no guarantee of security, and often mean that the designers don't understand what it means to show that a product is secure.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cracking contests are warning sign number 9 on Bruce Schneier 's list of security snake oil warnings .
[ schneier.com ] Warning Sign # 9 : Cracking contests.I wrote about this at length last December : .
For now , suffice it to say that cracking contests are no guarantee of security , and often mean that the designers do n't understand what it means to show that a product is secure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cracking contests are warning sign number 9 on Bruce Schneier's list of security snake oil warnings.
[schneier.com] Warning Sign #9: Cracking contests.I wrote about this at length last December: .
For now, suffice it to say that cracking contests are no guarantee of security, and often mean that the designers don't understand what it means to show that a product is secure.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30110816</id>
	<title>What about corrupt officials</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258294560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>someone must have to administer the machines with some kind of administrator privileges. Did these tests include whether corrupt election officials could effect the result? Most likely the only way to prevent that would be to have some sort of printed reciept... oh wait that's just paper ballots all over again.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>someone must have to administer the machines with some kind of administrator privileges .
Did these tests include whether corrupt election officials could effect the result ?
Most likely the only way to prevent that would be to have some sort of printed reciept... oh wait that 's just paper ballots all over again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>someone must have to administer the machines with some kind of administrator privileges.
Did these tests include whether corrupt election officials could effect the result?
Most likely the only way to prevent that would be to have some sort of printed reciept... oh wait that's just paper ballots all over again.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105488</id>
	<title>Shill</title>
	<author>Gothmolly</author>
	<datestamp>1258297680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, the 'best crackers' couldn't hack it, see?   So its secure, see?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , the 'best crackers ' could n't hack it , see ?
So its secure , see ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, the 'best crackers' couldn't hack it, see?
So its secure, see?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105136</id>
	<title>The successful atempt wasn't about the system</title>
	<author>joaobranco</author>
	<datestamp>1258294440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>According to the newspapers, the successful attempt was on the carrying bag for the media (which I assume carries the data required). It seems lack of physical security still can happen, but the media is supposedly cryptographically signed, so replacing it would be hard in any case.</htmltext>
<tokenext>According to the newspapers , the successful attempt was on the carrying bag for the media ( which I assume carries the data required ) .
It seems lack of physical security still can happen , but the media is supposedly cryptographically signed , so replacing it would be hard in any case .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>According to the newspapers, the successful attempt was on the carrying bag for the media (which I assume carries the data required).
It seems lack of physical security still can happen, but the media is supposedly cryptographically signed, so replacing it would be hard in any case.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105112</id>
	<title>Why not open source it? And the human flaws?</title>
	<author>etinin</author>
	<datestamp>1258294020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I still have serious concerns about the current voting system.

Heck, last time I heard, the version which had its source inspected by the Supreme Court wasn't necessarily the final version. If they don't really know what's in there, who does? How hard would it be to bribe someone in the company.

And, worse than technological flaws, are always the human flaws. Cases of people who work at the polling stations (they do unpaid compulsory work) voting for people who didn't vote are not unheard of. Besides, the statistical samples taken to avoid frauds are VERY, VERY weak.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I still have serious concerns about the current voting system .
Heck , last time I heard , the version which had its source inspected by the Supreme Court was n't necessarily the final version .
If they do n't really know what 's in there , who does ?
How hard would it be to bribe someone in the company .
And , worse than technological flaws , are always the human flaws .
Cases of people who work at the polling stations ( they do unpaid compulsory work ) voting for people who did n't vote are not unheard of .
Besides , the statistical samples taken to avoid frauds are VERY , VERY weak .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I still have serious concerns about the current voting system.
Heck, last time I heard, the version which had its source inspected by the Supreme Court wasn't necessarily the final version.
If they don't really know what's in there, who does?
How hard would it be to bribe someone in the company.
And, worse than technological flaws, are always the human flaws.
Cases of people who work at the polling stations (they do unpaid compulsory work) voting for people who didn't vote are not unheard of.
Besides, the statistical samples taken to avoid frauds are VERY, VERY weak.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104836</id>
	<title>Re:Doesn't change a thing</title>
	<author>dvice\_null</author>
	<datestamp>1258279020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Failure to find a flaw does not prove absence of a flaw.</p><p>And failure to find an unicorn doesn't prove absence of a unicorn. I claim that there is no flaw. It is now your job to find the flaw and prove me wrong.</p><p>&gt; A paper ballot vote is completely observable and does not require trust.</p><p>So you think that computers can't be trusted, because you don't trust people handling them, but you can trust paper, because you trust people handling them?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Failure to find a flaw does not prove absence of a flaw.And failure to find an unicorn does n't prove absence of a unicorn .
I claim that there is no flaw .
It is now your job to find the flaw and prove me wrong. &gt; A paper ballot vote is completely observable and does not require trust.So you think that computers ca n't be trusted , because you do n't trust people handling them , but you can trust paper , because you trust people handling them ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Failure to find a flaw does not prove absence of a flaw.And failure to find an unicorn doesn't prove absence of a unicorn.
I claim that there is no flaw.
It is now your job to find the flaw and prove me wrong.&gt; A paper ballot vote is completely observable and does not require trust.So you think that computers can't be trusted, because you don't trust people handling them, but you can trust paper, because you trust people handling them?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104636</id>
	<title>Fuck ur frost piss</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258317900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <b>GNAA REBORN UNDER NEW LEADERSHIP</b> </p><p> <i>DiKKy Heartiez - Berlin, Norway </i> </p><p>President timecop of the GNAA has died today. He died at the age of 55 from excessive lulz in his apartment in Tokyo, Japan while watching faggot cartoons of preteen girls beeing raped by giant testicles. The world will remember him as a total faggot douchebag who had the opportunity to unite the best trolls seen upon the face of the internet into one special hardcore machine of destruction, unfortunately he failed, instead devoting his internet carreer to animu. Although he died like a true hero he will be forever remembered as a total failure. </p><p>In the wake of his death the GNAA is thought to perish like all the other so called trolling organizations. The writing is on the wall, they say. The GNAA smells worse than BSD, they say.They have said this for a long time. The GNAA has lived, with a very faint pulse, for years. </p><p> <b> DIKKY HEARTIEZ CLAIMS THE PRESIDENCY OF THE GNAA!!!!!!!</b> </p><p>With the death of timecop still shocking our chats, not many are able to see ahead. But there is one visionary Nord who has great plans for the new GNAA.<br>"Under my leadership the GNAA will become the new home of all trolls on the internet. The GNAA will regain its old strength and will be feared by bloggers and jews alike. The time for CHANGE is now." DiKky HearTiez told a shocked audience outside the Gary Niger Memorial Plaza, Nigeria, earlier today. The GNAA will move its Internet Relayed Communications to a new location, following reports of a massive "Distributed Denial Of Service" attack on its previous location, making it unreliable.<br>"Our operatives are in need of a robust and safe communications service with can\_flood for everyone." An anonymous source at the GNAA Black Ops department told reporters at the same conference.</p><p> <b>KLULZ supports DiKKy Heartiez presidency!</b> </p><p>The infamous KLULZ internet radio station supports DiKKy Heartiez for the new GNAA president.<br>"KLULZ is behind him 100\% and will be broadcasting his speeches and support him in every way possible, we wish him the best of luck and an outstanding presidency. May many blogs burn under DiKky Hearties." This was stated by KLULZ Operations Manager and Gay Nigger g0sp when asked to comment on KLULZ involvement.</p><p> <b>About President timecop</b> </p><p>DEAD.</p><p> <b>About DiKKy HearTiez </b> </p><p>The world famous internet nord from Norway LOL HY living in a fjord LOL HY. Currently the new President of the new GNAA. He is also a radiodj on KLULZ and active in many irc chats. Known for several epic trolls in his time. Led the GNAA operation Intel Crapflood 21, who succesfully made GNAA owners of the biggest thread on Slashdot until fixed by admins. Also deeply involved in the war on blogs, and is the one who provided JesuitX with the real screenshots of Faggintosh Leopard. His leadership abilities, high iq and instoppable urge to troll, coupled with his fat Norwegian welfare check will enable him to become the best President the GNAA ever had.</p><p> <b>About KLULZ</b> </p><p>KLULZ is the internets radio station, bringing you news about the GNAA, hosting shows by prominent djs such as DiKKy, l0de, g0sp, jenk and many others. KLULZ supports DiKKy Heartiez. With mature content this channel is not suitable for children or people under the age of 18. Klulz radio can be heard at http://klulz.com/listen.pls</p><p> <b>About GNAA</b>:</p><p> <b>GNAA</b> (<i>GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA</i>) is the first<br>organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one<br>common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.</p><p>Are you <a href="http://klerck.org/spin.gif" title="klerck.org" rel="nofollow"> <b>GAY</b> </a> [klerck.org]?</p><p>Are you a <a href="http://www.mugshots.org/sports/oj-simpson.jpg" title="mugshots.org" rel="nofollow"> <b>NIGGER</b> </a> [mugshots.org]?</p><p>Are you a <a href="http://www.gay-sex-access.com/gay-black-sex.jpg" title="gay-sex-access.com" rel="nofollow"> <b>GAY NIGGER</b> </a> [gay-sex-access.com]?</p><p>If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then <b>GNAA</b> (<i>GAY NIGGER<br>ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA</i>) might be exactly what you've been looking for!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GNAA REBORN UNDER NEW LEADERSHIP DiKKy Heartiez - Berlin , Norway President timecop of the GNAA has died today .
He died at the age of 55 from excessive lulz in his apartment in Tokyo , Japan while watching faggot cartoons of preteen girls beeing raped by giant testicles .
The world will remember him as a total faggot douchebag who had the opportunity to unite the best trolls seen upon the face of the internet into one special hardcore machine of destruction , unfortunately he failed , instead devoting his internet carreer to animu .
Although he died like a true hero he will be forever remembered as a total failure .
In the wake of his death the GNAA is thought to perish like all the other so called trolling organizations .
The writing is on the wall , they say .
The GNAA smells worse than BSD , they say.They have said this for a long time .
The GNAA has lived , with a very faint pulse , for years .
DIKKY HEARTIEZ CLAIMS THE PRESIDENCY OF THE GNAA ! ! ! ! ! ! !
With the death of timecop still shocking our chats , not many are able to see ahead .
But there is one visionary Nord who has great plans for the new GNAA .
" Under my leadership the GNAA will become the new home of all trolls on the internet .
The GNAA will regain its old strength and will be feared by bloggers and jews alike .
The time for CHANGE is now .
" DiKky HearTiez told a shocked audience outside the Gary Niger Memorial Plaza , Nigeria , earlier today .
The GNAA will move its Internet Relayed Communications to a new location , following reports of a massive " Distributed Denial Of Service " attack on its previous location , making it unreliable .
" Our operatives are in need of a robust and safe communications service with can \ _flood for everyone .
" An anonymous source at the GNAA Black Ops department told reporters at the same conference .
KLULZ supports DiKKy Heartiez presidency !
The infamous KLULZ internet radio station supports DiKKy Heartiez for the new GNAA president .
" KLULZ is behind him 100 \ % and will be broadcasting his speeches and support him in every way possible , we wish him the best of luck and an outstanding presidency .
May many blogs burn under DiKky Hearties .
" This was stated by KLULZ Operations Manager and Gay Nigger g0sp when asked to comment on KLULZ involvement .
About President timecop DEAD .
About DiKKy HearTiez The world famous internet nord from Norway LOL HY living in a fjord LOL HY .
Currently the new President of the new GNAA .
He is also a radiodj on KLULZ and active in many irc chats .
Known for several epic trolls in his time .
Led the GNAA operation Intel Crapflood 21 , who succesfully made GNAA owners of the biggest thread on Slashdot until fixed by admins .
Also deeply involved in the war on blogs , and is the one who provided JesuitX with the real screenshots of Faggintosh Leopard .
His leadership abilities , high iq and instoppable urge to troll , coupled with his fat Norwegian welfare check will enable him to become the best President the GNAA ever had .
About KLULZ KLULZ is the internets radio station , bringing you news about the GNAA , hosting shows by prominent djs such as DiKKy , l0de , g0sp , jenk and many others .
KLULZ supports DiKKy Heartiez .
With mature content this channel is not suitable for children or people under the age of 18 .
Klulz radio can be heard at http : //klulz.com/listen.pls About GNAA : GNAA ( GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA ) is the firstorganization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for onecommon goal - being GAY NIGGERS.Are you GAY [ klerck.org ] ? Are you a NIGGER [ mugshots.org ] ? Are you a GAY NIGGER [ gay-sex-access.com ] ? If you answered " Yes " to all of the above questions , then GNAA ( GAY NIGGERASSOCIATION OF AMERICA ) might be exactly what you 've been looking for !</tokentext>
<sentencetext> GNAA REBORN UNDER NEW LEADERSHIP  DiKKy Heartiez - Berlin, Norway  President timecop of the GNAA has died today.
He died at the age of 55 from excessive lulz in his apartment in Tokyo, Japan while watching faggot cartoons of preteen girls beeing raped by giant testicles.
The world will remember him as a total faggot douchebag who had the opportunity to unite the best trolls seen upon the face of the internet into one special hardcore machine of destruction, unfortunately he failed, instead devoting his internet carreer to animu.
Although he died like a true hero he will be forever remembered as a total failure.
In the wake of his death the GNAA is thought to perish like all the other so called trolling organizations.
The writing is on the wall, they say.
The GNAA smells worse than BSD, they say.They have said this for a long time.
The GNAA has lived, with a very faint pulse, for years.
DIKKY HEARTIEZ CLAIMS THE PRESIDENCY OF THE GNAA!!!!!!!
With the death of timecop still shocking our chats, not many are able to see ahead.
But there is one visionary Nord who has great plans for the new GNAA.
"Under my leadership the GNAA will become the new home of all trolls on the internet.
The GNAA will regain its old strength and will be feared by bloggers and jews alike.
The time for CHANGE is now.
" DiKky HearTiez told a shocked audience outside the Gary Niger Memorial Plaza, Nigeria, earlier today.
The GNAA will move its Internet Relayed Communications to a new location, following reports of a massive "Distributed Denial Of Service" attack on its previous location, making it unreliable.
"Our operatives are in need of a robust and safe communications service with can\_flood for everyone.
" An anonymous source at the GNAA Black Ops department told reporters at the same conference.
KLULZ supports DiKKy Heartiez presidency!
The infamous KLULZ internet radio station supports DiKKy Heartiez for the new GNAA president.
"KLULZ is behind him 100\% and will be broadcasting his speeches and support him in every way possible, we wish him the best of luck and an outstanding presidency.
May many blogs burn under DiKky Hearties.
" This was stated by KLULZ Operations Manager and Gay Nigger g0sp when asked to comment on KLULZ involvement.
About President timecop DEAD.
About DiKKy HearTiez  The world famous internet nord from Norway LOL HY living in a fjord LOL HY.
Currently the new President of the new GNAA.
He is also a radiodj on KLULZ and active in many irc chats.
Known for several epic trolls in his time.
Led the GNAA operation Intel Crapflood 21, who succesfully made GNAA owners of the biggest thread on Slashdot until fixed by admins.
Also deeply involved in the war on blogs, and is the one who provided JesuitX with the real screenshots of Faggintosh Leopard.
His leadership abilities, high iq and instoppable urge to troll, coupled with his fat Norwegian welfare check will enable him to become the best President the GNAA ever had.
About KLULZ KLULZ is the internets radio station, bringing you news about the GNAA, hosting shows by prominent djs such as DiKKy, l0de, g0sp, jenk and many others.
KLULZ supports DiKKy Heartiez.
With mature content this channel is not suitable for children or people under the age of 18.
Klulz radio can be heard at http://klulz.com/listen.pls About GNAA: GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the firstorganization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for onecommon goal - being GAY NIGGERS.Are you  GAY  [klerck.org]?Are you a  NIGGER  [mugshots.org]?Are you a  GAY NIGGER  [gay-sex-access.com]?If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGERASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30110294</id>
	<title>Why do we feel the need to have a gov?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258289940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Remind me again why we need a government to steel from us and hit us?<br>I do most things in my life without a government and know that I could vote better with my money in a free market.<br>Check out Stefan Molyneux's work to truly understand freedom. http://fdrurl.com/PA</p><p>But if we do really feel like we need a gov why don't the machines print out a receipt and then we put receipt in a ballot. that way we can have real time results and then still get a paper count in the days' weeks after to confirm the electronic ballot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Remind me again why we need a government to steel from us and hit us ? I do most things in my life without a government and know that I could vote better with my money in a free market.Check out Stefan Molyneux 's work to truly understand freedom .
http : //fdrurl.com/PABut if we do really feel like we need a gov why do n't the machines print out a receipt and then we put receipt in a ballot .
that way we can have real time results and then still get a paper count in the days ' weeks after to confirm the electronic ballot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remind me again why we need a government to steel from us and hit us?I do most things in my life without a government and know that I could vote better with my money in a free market.Check out Stefan Molyneux's work to truly understand freedom.
http://fdrurl.com/PABut if we do really feel like we need a gov why don't the machines print out a receipt and then we put receipt in a ballot.
that way we can have real time results and then still get a paper count in the days' weeks after to confirm the electronic ballot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104960</id>
	<title>Re:Doesn't change a thing</title>
	<author>Mr. Freeman</author>
	<datestamp>1258292100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is no way for you to verify that the paper ballot you are using is an actual legitimate ballot.  I suppose you could call some city department and have them certify the ballot, but you could do the same thing for the voting machines.  Electronic voting is not necessarily undemocratic.  It's only undemocratic if it's being used in an undemocratic way.  You could abuse paper ballots the exact same way you could abuse electronic machines.<br><br>The only real difference here is that no one has tried to sell the government paper ballots that don't count your votes, or lose your votes, or change your votes, or fail to leave a paper trail.  Electronic machines done right are just as secure as paper ballots.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no way for you to verify that the paper ballot you are using is an actual legitimate ballot .
I suppose you could call some city department and have them certify the ballot , but you could do the same thing for the voting machines .
Electronic voting is not necessarily undemocratic .
It 's only undemocratic if it 's being used in an undemocratic way .
You could abuse paper ballots the exact same way you could abuse electronic machines.The only real difference here is that no one has tried to sell the government paper ballots that do n't count your votes , or lose your votes , or change your votes , or fail to leave a paper trail .
Electronic machines done right are just as secure as paper ballots .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no way for you to verify that the paper ballot you are using is an actual legitimate ballot.
I suppose you could call some city department and have them certify the ballot, but you could do the same thing for the voting machines.
Electronic voting is not necessarily undemocratic.
It's only undemocratic if it's being used in an undemocratic way.
You could abuse paper ballots the exact same way you could abuse electronic machines.The only real difference here is that no one has tried to sell the government paper ballots that don't count your votes, or lose your votes, or change your votes, or fail to leave a paper trail.
Electronic machines done right are just as secure as paper ballots.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104864</id>
	<title>Wrong solution</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258279500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Rather than focusing on the machine itself it is much more important to make sure that the results are verifiable. Here's my take: <br>
1) Give the voter a randomly chosen voter number. <br>
2) Reveal the vote for each voter number in some puclic channel. (Yes I mean print each and every one's vote in the newspaper) <br>
3) Extend voter's obligations to include reading the newspaper the next day. <br>
4) Have volunteers count the number of people entering each voting station. <br> <br>

If everyone is happy with his own entry in the newspaper and the volunteers are happy with the number of entries, then the election went well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Rather than focusing on the machine itself it is much more important to make sure that the results are verifiable .
Here 's my take : 1 ) Give the voter a randomly chosen voter number .
2 ) Reveal the vote for each voter number in some puclic channel .
( Yes I mean print each and every one 's vote in the newspaper ) 3 ) Extend voter 's obligations to include reading the newspaper the next day .
4 ) Have volunteers count the number of people entering each voting station .
If everyone is happy with his own entry in the newspaper and the volunteers are happy with the number of entries , then the election went well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rather than focusing on the machine itself it is much more important to make sure that the results are verifiable.
Here's my take: 
1) Give the voter a randomly chosen voter number.
2) Reveal the vote for each voter number in some puclic channel.
(Yes I mean print each and every one's vote in the newspaper) 
3) Extend voter's obligations to include reading the newspaper the next day.
4) Have volunteers count the number of people entering each voting station.
If everyone is happy with his own entry in the newspaper and the volunteers are happy with the number of entries, then the election went well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104484</id>
	<title>Diebold</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258315380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sweet. They fixed it.</p><p>Oh, wait... <i>Brazilian</i>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sweet .
They fixed it.Oh , wait... Brazilian.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sweet.
They fixed it.Oh, wait... Brazilian...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30110180</id>
	<title>This statement is BS...</title>
	<author>duwde</author>
	<datestamp>1258289280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm Brazilian and this media statement is full os shit, why ?

1st - To try to hack it you had to submit a paper telling EVERYTHING you would try to hack... Any hacker knows that "hacking" isn't easy, and you must adjust your techniques every time, so it is virtually impossible to design a paper telling what you're going to do. Hacking isn't simply mathematics and scheduled procedures...

2nd - They would allow you very limited access to the voting machine in a controlled everinoment and on a limited time. Hacking takes days to understand the code, flaws ans possible ways to exploit it. It can't be done under pressure in a few days.

3rd - No REAL hacker would show his personal information and submit it to the goverment. Why ? It's very clear that everyone who enlisted was added to a federal police database of "possible suspects" and only the winner (almost impossible to archive, due the circunstances) would gain anything. So the chance of winning was very low, and being exposed wasn't worth the try.

If they want a REAL test, they must:
1 - Allow anyone read the full source-code
2 - Put some of those voting machines on the internet with full-access. (login and passwords)
3 - Let us try anything without pressure.
4 - Offer a REAL prize, like US$100.000.
5 - Get a chance to try to hack it without being exposed in the first-hand. Of course whoever wins must reveal his identity, but only the winner (and everything that would come from that) would be known.

That said, it was just a media statement... I can BET there are a lot of flaws in the system...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm Brazilian and this media statement is full os shit , why ?
1st - To try to hack it you had to submit a paper telling EVERYTHING you would try to hack... Any hacker knows that " hacking " is n't easy , and you must adjust your techniques every time , so it is virtually impossible to design a paper telling what you 're going to do .
Hacking is n't simply mathematics and scheduled procedures.. . 2nd - They would allow you very limited access to the voting machine in a controlled everinoment and on a limited time .
Hacking takes days to understand the code , flaws ans possible ways to exploit it .
It ca n't be done under pressure in a few days .
3rd - No REAL hacker would show his personal information and submit it to the goverment .
Why ?
It 's very clear that everyone who enlisted was added to a federal police database of " possible suspects " and only the winner ( almost impossible to archive , due the circunstances ) would gain anything .
So the chance of winning was very low , and being exposed was n't worth the try .
If they want a REAL test , they must : 1 - Allow anyone read the full source-code 2 - Put some of those voting machines on the internet with full-access .
( login and passwords ) 3 - Let us try anything without pressure .
4 - Offer a REAL prize , like US $ 100.000 .
5 - Get a chance to try to hack it without being exposed in the first-hand .
Of course whoever wins must reveal his identity , but only the winner ( and everything that would come from that ) would be known .
That said , it was just a media statement... I can BET there are a lot of flaws in the system.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm Brazilian and this media statement is full os shit, why ?
1st - To try to hack it you had to submit a paper telling EVERYTHING you would try to hack... Any hacker knows that "hacking" isn't easy, and you must adjust your techniques every time, so it is virtually impossible to design a paper telling what you're going to do.
Hacking isn't simply mathematics and scheduled procedures...

2nd - They would allow you very limited access to the voting machine in a controlled everinoment and on a limited time.
Hacking takes days to understand the code, flaws ans possible ways to exploit it.
It can't be done under pressure in a few days.
3rd - No REAL hacker would show his personal information and submit it to the goverment.
Why ?
It's very clear that everyone who enlisted was added to a federal police database of "possible suspects" and only the winner (almost impossible to archive, due the circunstances) would gain anything.
So the chance of winning was very low, and being exposed wasn't worth the try.
If they want a REAL test, they must:
1 - Allow anyone read the full source-code
2 - Put some of those voting machines on the internet with full-access.
(login and passwords)
3 - Let us try anything without pressure.
4 - Offer a REAL prize, like US$100.000.
5 - Get a chance to try to hack it without being exposed in the first-hand.
Of course whoever wins must reveal his identity, but only the winner (and everything that would come from that) would be known.
That said, it was just a media statement... I can BET there are a lot of flaws in the system...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105284</id>
	<title>actually is closed source software</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258295940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>the software is actually is closed source software according to wikipedia.</htmltext>
<tokenext>the software is actually is closed source software according to wikipedia .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the software is actually is closed source software according to wikipedia.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104956</id>
	<title>What incentive is there?</title>
	<author>Skapare</author>
	<datestamp>1258292040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If there was a strong incentive or motive, that might have made a big difference.  If all you get from success in cracking is the recognition, that won't bring in all the possible methods.  OTOH, if there was a genuine and significant prize, like actually taking leadership of the country, or a billion dollars, you might find the machines can be cracked.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If there was a strong incentive or motive , that might have made a big difference .
If all you get from success in cracking is the recognition , that wo n't bring in all the possible methods .
OTOH , if there was a genuine and significant prize , like actually taking leadership of the country , or a billion dollars , you might find the machines can be cracked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If there was a strong incentive or motive, that might have made a big difference.
If all you get from success in cracking is the recognition, that won't bring in all the possible methods.
OTOH, if there was a genuine and significant prize, like actually taking leadership of the country, or a billion dollars, you might find the machines can be cracked.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30106028</id>
	<title>obligatory...</title>
	<author>TheSHAD0W</author>
	<datestamp>1258304580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Hackers Fail To Crack Brazilian Voting Machines </i></p><p>Give them time, a brazilian is a lot of machines!<br>Ba-doom-boom-tss.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hackers Fail To Crack Brazilian Voting Machines Give them time , a brazilian is a lot of machines ! Ba-doom-boom-tss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hackers Fail To Crack Brazilian Voting Machines Give them time, a brazilian is a lot of machines!Ba-doom-boom-tss.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104932</id>
	<title>Re:for what it is worth...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258291560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would also add that having an uncrackable machine from an exterior attacker says nothing about the ability of a government to tamper an election.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would also add that having an uncrackable machine from an exterior attacker says nothing about the ability of a government to tamper an election .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would also add that having an uncrackable machine from an exterior attacker says nothing about the ability of a government to tamper an election.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105396</id>
	<title>Not the real hackers</title>
	<author>michelcultivo</author>
	<datestamp>1258296960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Before you do the attempt you have to explain what you're planning to do, and the procedures have to stay with the TSE. The real hackers don't get their hands on that voting machine, only the security companys and universities can do the tests.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Before you do the attempt you have to explain what you 're planning to do , and the procedures have to stay with the TSE .
The real hackers do n't get their hands on that voting machine , only the security companys and universities can do the tests .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before you do the attempt you have to explain what you're planning to do, and the procedures have to stay with the TSE.
The real hackers don't get their hands on that voting machine, only the security companys and universities can do the tests.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512</id>
	<title>Doesn't change a thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258315740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Failure to find a flaw does not prove absence of a flaw. Even if it did, I still need to trust the people handling the machines that the machines I'm voting on are the ones that were tested, because there is no way for me to verify that in an actual voting situation. A paper ballot vote is completely observable and does not require trust. Electronic voting is unnecessary and undemocratic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Failure to find a flaw does not prove absence of a flaw .
Even if it did , I still need to trust the people handling the machines that the machines I 'm voting on are the ones that were tested , because there is no way for me to verify that in an actual voting situation .
A paper ballot vote is completely observable and does not require trust .
Electronic voting is unnecessary and undemocratic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Failure to find a flaw does not prove absence of a flaw.
Even if it did, I still need to trust the people handling the machines that the machines I'm voting on are the ones that were tested, because there is no way for me to verify that in an actual voting situation.
A paper ballot vote is completely observable and does not require trust.
Electronic voting is unnecessary and undemocratic.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30109392</id>
	<title>Backdoors done right</title>
	<author>4D6963</author>
	<datestamp>1258283340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, the machines' backdoor cannot be used by just about any hacker? Well good to know!

</p><p>Put in a different way, that's as if you made a contest out of making people try to log through SSH into your machine, to prove that *you* can't log into it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , the machines ' backdoor can not be used by just about any hacker ?
Well good to know !
Put in a different way , that 's as if you made a contest out of making people try to log through SSH into your machine , to prove that * you * ca n't log into it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, the machines' backdoor cannot be used by just about any hacker?
Well good to know!
Put in a different way, that's as if you made a contest out of making people try to log through SSH into your machine, to prove that *you* can't log into it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30110348</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong solution</title>
	<author>AndrewRUK</author>
	<datestamp>1258290300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In addition to Mr. Freeman's points, this would weaken ballot secrecy - at present, if someone wants to find out how you voted, their only method is to ask you, and they have no way to verify your answer.  With your system, they can demand your voter number and then check the newspaper.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In addition to Mr. Freeman 's points , this would weaken ballot secrecy - at present , if someone wants to find out how you voted , their only method is to ask you , and they have no way to verify your answer .
With your system , they can demand your voter number and then check the newspaper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In addition to Mr. Freeman's points, this would weaken ballot secrecy - at present, if someone wants to find out how you voted, their only method is to ask you, and they have no way to verify your answer.
With your system, they can demand your voter number and then check the newspaper.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104492</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258315500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course not!  There were a brazilian of 'em!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course not !
There were a brazilian of 'em !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course not!
There were a brazilian of 'em!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104852</id>
	<title>Interesting</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258279440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obviously we should make our voting machines out of Brazilians like they do, it seems to work well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously we should make our voting machines out of Brazilians like they do , it seems to work well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously we should make our voting machines out of Brazilians like they do, it seems to work well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104988</id>
	<title>Easy</title>
	<author>lord\_rob the only on</author>
	<datestamp>1258292520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If I were here, I'd have cracked the machine with a hammer</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If I were here , I 'd have cracked the machine with a hammer</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I were here, I'd have cracked the machine with a hammer</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30109470</id>
	<title>What does this "cracking contest" prove?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258283940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Absolutely nothing...</p><p>Just because the 38 so-called "experts" failed to crack the voting machine does not prove that the machine is secure at all.</p><p>All it proves is that those "experts" lacked the skill or knowledge to crack it.</p><p>It will funny (and quite ironic) when some 16 year old, with a little too much time on his/her hands, cracks the machine. Only to prove that those 38 experts should probably not be in the security industry in the first place..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Absolutely nothing...Just because the 38 so-called " experts " failed to crack the voting machine does not prove that the machine is secure at all.All it proves is that those " experts " lacked the skill or knowledge to crack it.It will funny ( and quite ironic ) when some 16 year old , with a little too much time on his/her hands , cracks the machine .
Only to prove that those 38 experts should probably not be in the security industry in the first place. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Absolutely nothing...Just because the 38 so-called "experts" failed to crack the voting machine does not prove that the machine is secure at all.All it proves is that those "experts" lacked the skill or knowledge to crack it.It will funny (and quite ironic) when some 16 year old, with a little too much time on his/her hands, cracks the machine.
Only to prove that those 38 experts should probably not be in the security industry in the first place..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104468</id>
	<title>Hmm...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258228620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These obviously weren't Diebold machines.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These obviously were n't Diebold machines .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These obviously weren't Diebold machines.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105980</id>
	<title>Re:for what it is worth...</title>
	<author>swillden</author>
	<datestamp>1258304280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Cracking contests are warning sign number 9 on <a href="http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-9902.html#snakeoil" title="schneier.com">Bruce Schneier's list of security snake oil warnings.</a> [schneier.com] </p><blockquote><div><p>Warning Sign #9: Cracking contests.</p><p>I wrote about this at length last December: . For now, suffice it to say that cracking contests are no guarantee of security, and often mean that the designers don't understand what it means to show that a product is secure.</p></div></blockquote></div><p>It should be pointed out that Schneier was talking about ciphers, not voting machines, and he was talking about companies announcing cracking contests and using the announcement as an indication of security, in lieu of actually providing enough information to allow serious review of security.

</p><p>It's the combination of secrecy and cracking contests that is the snake oil warning sign.  The only way we can determine if something is secure is to have lots of smart, knowledgeable people with full access to the details try to break it.  With crypto stuff, this is normally done by publishing at academic conferences and in academic journals and then encouraging other academics to give it a shot, but that's far from the only way to do it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cracking contests are warning sign number 9 on Bruce Schneier 's list of security snake oil warnings .
[ schneier.com ] Warning Sign # 9 : Cracking contests.I wrote about this at length last December : .
For now , suffice it to say that cracking contests are no guarantee of security , and often mean that the designers do n't understand what it means to show that a product is secure.It should be pointed out that Schneier was talking about ciphers , not voting machines , and he was talking about companies announcing cracking contests and using the announcement as an indication of security , in lieu of actually providing enough information to allow serious review of security .
It 's the combination of secrecy and cracking contests that is the snake oil warning sign .
The only way we can determine if something is secure is to have lots of smart , knowledgeable people with full access to the details try to break it .
With crypto stuff , this is normally done by publishing at academic conferences and in academic journals and then encouraging other academics to give it a shot , but that 's far from the only way to do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cracking contests are warning sign number 9 on Bruce Schneier's list of security snake oil warnings.
[schneier.com] Warning Sign #9: Cracking contests.I wrote about this at length last December: .
For now, suffice it to say that cracking contests are no guarantee of security, and often mean that the designers don't understand what it means to show that a product is secure.It should be pointed out that Schneier was talking about ciphers, not voting machines, and he was talking about companies announcing cracking contests and using the announcement as an indication of security, in lieu of actually providing enough information to allow serious review of security.
It's the combination of secrecy and cracking contests that is the snake oil warning sign.
The only way we can determine if something is secure is to have lots of smart, knowledgeable people with full access to the details try to break it.
With crypto stuff, this is normally done by publishing at academic conferences and in academic journals and then encouraging other academics to give it a shot, but that's far from the only way to do it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105002</id>
	<title>Re:Doesn't change a thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258292700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Electronic voting is necessary and more democratic for the many disabled people who cannot fill out a paper ballot on their own.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Electronic voting is necessary and more democratic for the many disabled people who can not fill out a paper ballot on their own .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Electronic voting is necessary and more democratic for the many disabled people who cannot fill out a paper ballot on their own.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105610</id>
	<title>Re:for what it is worth...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258298700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Latin America is a rather less-than-stable political climate, after all.</i> </p><p>You shouldn't generalize. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_presidential\_election\_in\_Florida,\_2000" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Florida</a> [wikipedia.org] may be part of Latin America by now, but it's certainly not in Brazil.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Latin America is a rather less-than-stable political climate , after all .
You should n't generalize .
Florida [ wikipedia.org ] may be part of Latin America by now , but it 's certainly not in Brazil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Latin America is a rather less-than-stable political climate, after all.
You shouldn't generalize.
Florida [wikipedia.org] may be part of Latin America by now, but it's certainly not in Brazil.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104500</id>
	<title>Everyone raise your hand...</title>
	<author>Loopy</author>
	<datestamp>1258315560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...if you think the person who actually cracked it would admit it before cashing in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...if you think the person who actually cracked it would admit it before cashing in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...if you think the person who actually cracked it would admit it before cashing in.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105090</id>
	<title>Hackers Fail to Crack Brazilian Voting Machines</title>
	<author>Dun Kick The Noob</author>
	<datestamp>1258293780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>for now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>for now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30124214</id>
	<title>Re:Doesn't change a thing</title>
	<author>hrimhari</author>
	<datestamp>1258378020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>-1 Troll?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>(...) tried several different approaches to try to tamper with the software installed on the machines, <b>and even to physically interfere in other stages of the process.</b></p> </div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>-1 Troll ? ( .. .
) tried several different approaches to try to tamper with the software installed on the machines , and even to physically interfere in other stages of the process .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>-1 Troll?(...
) tried several different approaches to try to tamper with the software installed on the machines, and even to physically interfere in other stages of the process. 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30113640</id>
	<title>Is a Lie from Brazilian TSE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258372560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>First, is not the Brazilian goverment but the Tribunal Superior Eleitoral (supreme election jury or something like this in English).
<br> <br>And all the test is a ugly lie.
<br> <br>
The... "hackers" are public workers, not really hackers. And they are forbidden to use really "hacker" methods like disassemblers, sniffers and etcetera, only the "approved" methods. Is like you ask to a thief to try to bypass your security system, but allows then to use only a paper clip. Ridiculous, but the TSE do not care.</htmltext>
<tokenext>First , is not the Brazilian goverment but the Tribunal Superior Eleitoral ( supreme election jury or something like this in English ) .
And all the test is a ugly lie .
The... " hackers " are public workers , not really hackers .
And they are forbidden to use really " hacker " methods like disassemblers , sniffers and etcetera , only the " approved " methods .
Is like you ask to a thief to try to bypass your security system , but allows then to use only a paper clip .
Ridiculous , but the TSE do not care .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, is not the Brazilian goverment but the Tribunal Superior Eleitoral (supreme election jury or something like this in English).
And all the test is a ugly lie.
The... "hackers" are public workers, not really hackers.
And they are forbidden to use really "hacker" methods like disassemblers, sniffers and etcetera, only the "approved" methods.
Is like you ask to a thief to try to bypass your security system, but allows then to use only a paper clip.
Ridiculous, but the TSE do not care.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105254</id>
	<title>Formal proof</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258295640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder, with all the universities around, and those news about a 'formally proven' OS kernel, if a team of researchers couldn't attempt to formally prove a modular voting software system (maybe using the OS kernel that's already proven)?</p><p>Sure, it may be troublesome, but with government funding, it's a work that can be done, and independently verified by anyone that knows how to read such proofs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder , with all the universities around , and those news about a 'formally proven ' OS kernel , if a team of researchers could n't attempt to formally prove a modular voting software system ( maybe using the OS kernel that 's already proven ) ? Sure , it may be troublesome , but with government funding , it 's a work that can be done , and independently verified by anyone that knows how to read such proofs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder, with all the universities around, and those news about a 'formally proven' OS kernel, if a team of researchers couldn't attempt to formally prove a modular voting software system (maybe using the OS kernel that's already proven)?Sure, it may be troublesome, but with government funding, it's a work that can be done, and independently verified by anyone that knows how to read such proofs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30115084</id>
	<title>Re:for what it is worth...</title>
	<author>Xest</author>
	<datestamp>1258386060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, and to put it into context this is the same Brazilian government that asked it's nations botanists to do an audit of all known plant species in the country to get an idea of how many were endangered for an official report. The botanists used the criteries set by CITES - the international treaty on endangered species, to classify the status of the plants and around 3000 species were endangered.</p><p>After delaying and delaying when no one could understand why, the government finally released the compiled list....<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.....with only about 1000 species listed as endangered.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , and to put it into context this is the same Brazilian government that asked it 's nations botanists to do an audit of all known plant species in the country to get an idea of how many were endangered for an official report .
The botanists used the criteries set by CITES - the international treaty on endangered species , to classify the status of the plants and around 3000 species were endangered.After delaying and delaying when no one could understand why , the government finally released the compiled list.... .....with only about 1000 species listed as endangered .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, and to put it into context this is the same Brazilian government that asked it's nations botanists to do an audit of all known plant species in the country to get an idea of how many were endangered for an official report.
The botanists used the criteries set by CITES - the international treaty on endangered species, to classify the status of the plants and around 3000 species were endangered.After delaying and delaying when no one could understand why, the government finally released the compiled list.... .....with only about 1000 species listed as endangered.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30118288</id>
	<title>Corrected headline</title>
	<author>Minwee</author>
	<datestamp>1258398420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Hackers Decline to Reveal That They Cracked Brazilian Voting Machines"
</p><p>It's almost as if they had some incentive to keep it to themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Hackers Decline to Reveal That They Cracked Brazilian Voting Machines " It 's almost as if they had some incentive to keep it to themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Hackers Decline to Reveal That They Cracked Brazilian Voting Machines"
It's almost as if they had some incentive to keep it to themselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104776</id>
	<title>Re:for what it is worth...</title>
	<author>Nathrael</author>
	<datestamp>1258277280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>And in addition - who knows, maybe they actually *did* find something and "just" don't want to disclose their findings, instead preferring to use the exploits themselves. Latin America is a rather less-than-stable political climate, after all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And in addition - who knows , maybe they actually * did * find something and " just " do n't want to disclose their findings , instead preferring to use the exploits themselves .
Latin America is a rather less-than-stable political climate , after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And in addition - who knows, maybe they actually *did* find something and "just" don't want to disclose their findings, instead preferring to use the exploits themselves.
Latin America is a rather less-than-stable political climate, after all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105202</id>
	<title>Wrong way to look at it.</title>
	<author>PopeRatzo</author>
	<datestamp>1258294980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's funny that they'd crow about the fact that "hackers" couldn't break their security in three days.  Hacking a voting machine isn't a timed athletic contest.  It might take 4 days, or a week, or a year, but once it happens, the damage from a hacked election could be catastrophic for a nation.</p><p>The problem with voting machines is that somebody has to make them, usually a private company.  Private companies are after profit.  Profit + elections can be a disastrous combination.  The effects of private money have turned the US political system into a bad joke.</p><p>The way to secure and fair elections is not through any proprietary technology, that's for sure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's funny that they 'd crow about the fact that " hackers " could n't break their security in three days .
Hacking a voting machine is n't a timed athletic contest .
It might take 4 days , or a week , or a year , but once it happens , the damage from a hacked election could be catastrophic for a nation.The problem with voting machines is that somebody has to make them , usually a private company .
Private companies are after profit .
Profit + elections can be a disastrous combination .
The effects of private money have turned the US political system into a bad joke.The way to secure and fair elections is not through any proprietary technology , that 's for sure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's funny that they'd crow about the fact that "hackers" couldn't break their security in three days.
Hacking a voting machine isn't a timed athletic contest.
It might take 4 days, or a week, or a year, but once it happens, the damage from a hacked election could be catastrophic for a nation.The problem with voting machines is that somebody has to make them, usually a private company.
Private companies are after profit.
Profit + elections can be a disastrous combination.
The effects of private money have turned the US political system into a bad joke.The way to secure and fair elections is not through any proprietary technology, that's for sure.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104966</id>
	<title>uh, 4 days.... useless</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258292220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Besides anyone who plans on hacking these machines would definitely not attend an event such as this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Besides anyone who plans on hacking these machines would definitely not attend an event such as this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Besides anyone who plans on hacking these machines would definitely not attend an event such as this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105000</id>
	<title>What does this prove?</title>
	<author>KClaisse</author>
	<datestamp>1258292700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just because a few people didn't find a flaw in the time the spent there doesn't mean there isn't one. If someone found a hack, someone who actually wanted to exploit it, do you actually think they would divulge that kind of information? I would keep my mouth shut and let them <i>think</i> it was secure. Then it would make it even easier when the time came to mess with election results.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just because a few people did n't find a flaw in the time the spent there does n't mean there is n't one .
If someone found a hack , someone who actually wanted to exploit it , do you actually think they would divulge that kind of information ?
I would keep my mouth shut and let them think it was secure .
Then it would make it even easier when the time came to mess with election results .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just because a few people didn't find a flaw in the time the spent there doesn't mean there isn't one.
If someone found a hack, someone who actually wanted to exploit it, do you actually think they would divulge that kind of information?
I would keep my mouth shut and let them think it was secure.
Then it would make it even easier when the time came to mess with election results.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104568</id>
	<title>Nice idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258316700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course this doesn't really guarantee it's secure (nothing does) but it indicates they're taking security seriously. I am curious if they had full access to machines for a while before the competition, 3 days is a lot of time to try out a bunch of exploits you've worked out, but it's not a lot of time to try to find those exploits if it's the first time you've seen the system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course this does n't really guarantee it 's secure ( nothing does ) but it indicates they 're taking security seriously .
I am curious if they had full access to machines for a while before the competition , 3 days is a lot of time to try out a bunch of exploits you 've worked out , but it 's not a lot of time to try to find those exploits if it 's the first time you 've seen the system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course this doesn't really guarantee it's secure (nothing does) but it indicates they're taking security seriously.
I am curious if they had full access to machines for a while before the competition, 3 days is a lot of time to try out a bunch of exploits you've worked out, but it's not a lot of time to try to find those exploits if it's the first time you've seen the system.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105004</id>
	<title>Only three days?</title>
	<author>cameigons</author>
	<datestamp>1258292700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It usually takes more than three days to hack anything which flaws aren't by any means evident. It sure shows the voting machines are quite secure, but does that really show that they are "unhackable"?</htmltext>
<tokenext>It usually takes more than three days to hack anything which flaws are n't by any means evident .
It sure shows the voting machines are quite secure , but does that really show that they are " unhackable " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It usually takes more than three days to hack anything which flaws aren't by any means evident.
It sure shows the voting machines are quite secure, but does that really show that they are "unhackable"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105252</id>
	<title>Re:Wrong solution</title>
	<author>Mr. Freeman</author>
	<datestamp>1258295580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And then how do you verify the million or so people that misread the paper or just want to cause shit and claim their vote was not counted properly?  Not trying to rail on your idea, but this does present one hell of a practical problem that needs to be taken into account.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And then how do you verify the million or so people that misread the paper or just want to cause shit and claim their vote was not counted properly ?
Not trying to rail on your idea , but this does present one hell of a practical problem that needs to be taken into account .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And then how do you verify the million or so people that misread the paper or just want to cause shit and claim their vote was not counted properly?
Not trying to rail on your idea, but this does present one hell of a practical problem that needs to be taken into account.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104984</id>
	<title>Try again!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258292340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, they ARE Diebold machines! When I turned 18 and voted for the first time I was really surprised to see that the voting machines here in Brazil have Diebold logos... and this was around the time when electronic voting was starting to make noise in the US due to insecure Diebold machines. However, I suspect that the Brazilian machines are actually designed by some national organization and only the manufacturing of all the thousands of machines is outsourced to Diebold.</p><p>Weve been voting with these machines for over 10 years, if Im not mistaken, and not a single major flaw has ever surfaced. Some small problems may have occurred without anyone noticing, but weve never had an election result deviate wildly from poll numbers, so it seems trustworthy to the extent that we can detect.</p><p>Goes to show that electronic voting machines or even Diebold are not the whole problem, you just need some transparency and supervision of the whole process... DEFINITELY not closed source!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , they ARE Diebold machines !
When I turned 18 and voted for the first time I was really surprised to see that the voting machines here in Brazil have Diebold logos... and this was around the time when electronic voting was starting to make noise in the US due to insecure Diebold machines .
However , I suspect that the Brazilian machines are actually designed by some national organization and only the manufacturing of all the thousands of machines is outsourced to Diebold.Weve been voting with these machines for over 10 years , if Im not mistaken , and not a single major flaw has ever surfaced .
Some small problems may have occurred without anyone noticing , but weve never had an election result deviate wildly from poll numbers , so it seems trustworthy to the extent that we can detect.Goes to show that electronic voting machines or even Diebold are not the whole problem , you just need some transparency and supervision of the whole process... DEFINITELY not closed source !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, they ARE Diebold machines!
When I turned 18 and voted for the first time I was really surprised to see that the voting machines here in Brazil have Diebold logos... and this was around the time when electronic voting was starting to make noise in the US due to insecure Diebold machines.
However, I suspect that the Brazilian machines are actually designed by some national organization and only the manufacturing of all the thousands of machines is outsourced to Diebold.Weve been voting with these machines for over 10 years, if Im not mistaken, and not a single major flaw has ever surfaced.
Some small problems may have occurred without anyone noticing, but weve never had an election result deviate wildly from poll numbers, so it seems trustworthy to the extent that we can detect.Goes to show that electronic voting machines or even Diebold are not the whole problem, you just need some transparency and supervision of the whole process... DEFINITELY not closed source!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104468</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105046</id>
	<title>Florida 2000</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258293240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>A paper ballot vote is completely observable and does not require trust</p></div></blockquote><p>I beg to disagree. Apart from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_presidential\_election\_in\_Florida,\_2000#Recount\_Irregularities" title="wikipedia.org">things like hanging chads and butterfly ballots</a> [wikipedia.org], which can be corrected by proper voter instruction, paper ballots are subject from a large number of possible frauds, ranging from relatively unsophisticated methods like ballot stuffing to more advanced methods like ballots numbered with invisible ink.</p><p>Besides, as every corrupt politician knows, the best way is not to commit fraud at the ballot itself, but at the counting process. Unless there was only one vote for a candidate at one ballot, no one knows how the other people voted, and who will ensure the counting is done right?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>A paper ballot vote is completely observable and does not require trustI beg to disagree .
Apart from things like hanging chads and butterfly ballots [ wikipedia.org ] , which can be corrected by proper voter instruction , paper ballots are subject from a large number of possible frauds , ranging from relatively unsophisticated methods like ballot stuffing to more advanced methods like ballots numbered with invisible ink.Besides , as every corrupt politician knows , the best way is not to commit fraud at the ballot itself , but at the counting process .
Unless there was only one vote for a candidate at one ballot , no one knows how the other people voted , and who will ensure the counting is done right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A paper ballot vote is completely observable and does not require trustI beg to disagree.
Apart from things like hanging chads and butterfly ballots [wikipedia.org], which can be corrected by proper voter instruction, paper ballots are subject from a large number of possible frauds, ranging from relatively unsophisticated methods like ballot stuffing to more advanced methods like ballots numbered with invisible ink.Besides, as every corrupt politician knows, the best way is not to commit fraud at the ballot itself, but at the counting process.
Unless there was only one vote for a candidate at one ballot, no one knows how the other people voted, and who will ensure the counting is done right?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104660</id>
	<title>What about changes in hardware?</title>
	<author>dredwerker</author>
	<datestamp>1258318380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Didnt some of the American ones have hardware that changed?

Slightly but differed to the original spec. Then someone finds a buffer overflow etc.. Its a minefield but then again finance companies manage to have secure machines. You just have trusted people using them. As a pc support person I couldnt touch the two pcs that made millions of pounds in transfers it was the external company that supported them.
<br>
Also:
<br>
If you cant trust one person -  have technical representatives at each pollling station from each party.
<br>
Or get two diff machines from diff companies and get people to hit two buttons on two machines.
<br>
Or have a paper backup.
<br>
Or all of the above.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Didnt some of the American ones have hardware that changed ?
Slightly but differed to the original spec .
Then someone finds a buffer overflow etc.. Its a minefield but then again finance companies manage to have secure machines .
You just have trusted people using them .
As a pc support person I couldnt touch the two pcs that made millions of pounds in transfers it was the external company that supported them .
Also : If you cant trust one person - have technical representatives at each pollling station from each party .
Or get two diff machines from diff companies and get people to hit two buttons on two machines .
Or have a paper backup .
Or all of the above .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Didnt some of the American ones have hardware that changed?
Slightly but differed to the original spec.
Then someone finds a buffer overflow etc.. Its a minefield but then again finance companies manage to have secure machines.
You just have trusted people using them.
As a pc support person I couldnt touch the two pcs that made millions of pounds in transfers it was the external company that supported them.
Also:

If you cant trust one person -  have technical representatives at each pollling station from each party.
Or get two diff machines from diff companies and get people to hit two buttons on two machines.
Or have a paper backup.
Or all of the above.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105144</id>
	<title>Re:for what it is worth...</title>
	<author>C0vardeAn0nim0</author>
	<datestamp>1258294560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>except that if you read the arcticles, you'll see that it was more an auditing proccess done by several diferent professionals than an actual contest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>except that if you read the arcticles , you 'll see that it was more an auditing proccess done by several diferent professionals than an actual contest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>except that if you read the arcticles, you'll see that it was more an auditing proccess done by several diferent professionals than an actual contest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104950</id>
	<title>Josh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258291920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FYI- Real hackers do not attend public events such as this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FYI- Real hackers do not attend public events such as this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FYI- Real hackers do not attend public events such as this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104478</id>
	<title>Maybe?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258315200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe US hackers are better?<br>Nah, seriously, we should try to hack their machines here, even though I don't think we'll do much better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe US hackers are better ? Nah , seriously , we should try to hack their machines here , even though I do n't think we 'll do much better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe US hackers are better?Nah, seriously, we should try to hack their machines here, even though I don't think we'll do much better.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105530</id>
	<title>Misleading headline</title>
	<author>Legion303</author>
	<datestamp>1258297980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>More accurate: "Successful Brazilian voting machine hackers stay quiet, wait for election day."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More accurate : " Successful Brazilian voting machine hackers stay quiet , wait for election day .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More accurate: "Successful Brazilian voting machine hackers stay quiet, wait for election day.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105088</id>
	<title>Working link of pics, video of the voting machines</title>
	<author>cameigons</author>
	<datestamp>1258293780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://br-linux.org/2009/video-e-fotos-do-boot-do-linux-em-uma-urna-eletronica-brasileira/" title="br-linux.org" rel="nofollow">http://br-linux.org/2009/video-e-fotos-do-boot-do-linux-em-uma-urna-eletronica-brasileira/</a> [br-linux.org]

(scroll down the page a bit)</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //br-linux.org/2009/video-e-fotos-do-boot-do-linux-em-uma-urna-eletronica-brasileira/ [ br-linux.org ] ( scroll down the page a bit )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://br-linux.org/2009/video-e-fotos-do-boot-do-linux-em-uma-urna-eletronica-brasileira/ [br-linux.org]

(scroll down the page a bit)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105980
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30115084
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105252
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104864
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105002
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30124214
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30110348
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104864
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104932
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105144
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104984
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104468
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105610
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104776
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104960
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30113640
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104836
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_14_1936200_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105046
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_14_1936200.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104512
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30124214
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105046
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104960
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105002
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104836
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30113640
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_14_1936200.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104550
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105144
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105980
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104932
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30115084
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104776
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105610
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_14_1936200.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105112
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_14_1936200.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104864
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105252
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30110348
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_14_1936200.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105000
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_14_1936200.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104568
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_14_1936200.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104500
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_14_1936200.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104468
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30104984
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_14_1936200.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_14_1936200.30105404
</commentlist>
</conversation>
