<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_13_0513208</id>
	<title>Microsoft Buys Teamprise, Will Ship Linux Tools</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1258101180000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>spongman writes <i>"Microsoft's <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/somasegar/default.aspx">Senior Vice President, Developer Division</a>, <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/somasegar/">S. Somasegar</a> has announced that <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/somasegar/archive/2009/11/09/teamprise-enabling-tfs-collaboration-across-heterogeneous-platforms.aspx">Microsoft has acquired </a> <a href="http://www.teamprise.com/">Teamprise</a> from <a href="http://sourcegear.com/">Sourcegear, LLC</a>, and will be shipping it as part of the upcoming <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/products/2010/default.mspx">Visual Studio 2010</a> release. Teamprise is an <a href="http://www.eclipse.org/">Eclipse</a> plugin (and related tools) for connecting to <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/teamsystem/dd408382.aspx">Team Foundation Server</a>, Microsoft's source-control/project-management system. What's most interesting about this is not only that Microsoft has realized that heterogeneous development platforms are important to their developer customers, but the fact that Microsoft themselves will now be developing and shipping products based on those heterogeneous platforms, including <a href="http://teamprise.com/products/systemreqs.html">5 versions of Unix</a>."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>spongman writes " Microsoft 's Senior Vice President , Developer Division , S. Somasegar has announced that Microsoft has acquired Teamprise from Sourcegear , LLC , and will be shipping it as part of the upcoming Visual Studio 2010 release .
Teamprise is an Eclipse plugin ( and related tools ) for connecting to Team Foundation Server , Microsoft 's source-control/project-management system .
What 's most interesting about this is not only that Microsoft has realized that heterogeneous development platforms are important to their developer customers , but the fact that Microsoft themselves will now be developing and shipping products based on those heterogeneous platforms , including 5 versions of Unix .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>spongman writes "Microsoft's Senior Vice President, Developer Division, S. Somasegar has announced that Microsoft has acquired  Teamprise from Sourcegear, LLC, and will be shipping it as part of the upcoming Visual Studio 2010 release.
Teamprise is an Eclipse plugin (and related tools) for connecting to Team Foundation Server, Microsoft's source-control/project-management system.
What's most interesting about this is not only that Microsoft has realized that heterogeneous development platforms are important to their developer customers, but the fact that Microsoft themselves will now be developing and shipping products based on those heterogeneous platforms, including 5 versions of Unix.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084888</id>
	<title>Re:Logic</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258110780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LOL. And what ? 0.87\% of the desktop users would care, the rest wouldn't.</p><p>Its funny how Linux has only succeeded in places where either its completely stripped down to not allow user interaction (busybox) or completely maintained where user interaction is not needed (servers). Funny that, its almost like normal people have complete rejected it from a usability standpoint.</p><p>Maybe the Linux devs need to make a trip to Redmond,WA to learn how to make an OS that 90\% of the world uses on their desktops.</p><p>Linux is (still) for nerds. Windows is for average people. OSX is for gay people who like shiny stuff and black turtlenecks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LOL .
And what ?
0.87 \ % of the desktop users would care , the rest would n't.Its funny how Linux has only succeeded in places where either its completely stripped down to not allow user interaction ( busybox ) or completely maintained where user interaction is not needed ( servers ) .
Funny that , its almost like normal people have complete rejected it from a usability standpoint.Maybe the Linux devs need to make a trip to Redmond,WA to learn how to make an OS that 90 \ % of the world uses on their desktops.Linux is ( still ) for nerds .
Windows is for average people .
OSX is for gay people who like shiny stuff and black turtlenecks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LOL.
And what ?
0.87\% of the desktop users would care, the rest wouldn't.Its funny how Linux has only succeeded in places where either its completely stripped down to not allow user interaction (busybox) or completely maintained where user interaction is not needed (servers).
Funny that, its almost like normal people have complete rejected it from a usability standpoint.Maybe the Linux devs need to make a trip to Redmond,WA to learn how to make an OS that 90\% of the world uses on their desktops.Linux is (still) for nerds.
Windows is for average people.
OSX is for gay people who like shiny stuff and black turtlenecks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30083848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085110</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft have done this before...</title>
	<author>FunPika</author>
	<datestamp>1258114320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Good luck to them with that, considering that Teamprise is written in Java I believe. So I guess to strip Linux support they somehow need to change it so it CAN'T run on any operating system with a JRE, or port the code to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET or something.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good luck to them with that , considering that Teamprise is written in Java I believe .
So I guess to strip Linux support they somehow need to change it so it CA N'T run on any operating system with a JRE , or port the code to .NET or something .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good luck to them with that, considering that Teamprise is written in Java I believe.
So I guess to strip Linux support they somehow need to change it so it CAN'T run on any operating system with a JRE, or port the code to .NET or something.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084598</id>
	<title>The only reason they're going cross-platform</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258106700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only reason they're going cross-platform is that the tools are written in Java, which is already cross-platform.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only reason they 're going cross-platform is that the tools are written in Java , which is already cross-platform .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only reason they're going cross-platform is that the tools are written in Java, which is already cross-platform.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084704</id>
	<title>Re:silly</title>
	<author>batkiwi</author>
	<datestamp>1258107720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've actually not found a better enterprise solution to team development than the newest version of TFS.  Especially in corporate environments.</p><p>Perforce still beats it as a pure source control manager, but that's FAR from free software, and the whole package isn't as nicely integrated as TFS.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've actually not found a better enterprise solution to team development than the newest version of TFS .
Especially in corporate environments.Perforce still beats it as a pure source control manager , but that 's FAR from free software , and the whole package is n't as nicely integrated as TFS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've actually not found a better enterprise solution to team development than the newest version of TFS.
Especially in corporate environments.Perforce still beats it as a pure source control manager, but that's FAR from free software, and the whole package isn't as nicely integrated as TFS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085280</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft have done this before...</title>
	<author>Locutus</author>
	<datestamp>1258116780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>this reminds me of when Netscape had 80\% market share and it was shown that Microsofts IIS server would process MS Internet Explorer browser requests faster than Netscape Navigator requests. There was something about the IIS server running noop loops.<br><br>They don't get the "Evil Empire" label for no good reason. IMO.<br><br>LoB</htmltext>
<tokenext>this reminds me of when Netscape had 80 \ % market share and it was shown that Microsofts IIS server would process MS Internet Explorer browser requests faster than Netscape Navigator requests .
There was something about the IIS server running noop loops.They do n't get the " Evil Empire " label for no good reason .
IMO.LoB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this reminds me of when Netscape had 80\% market share and it was shown that Microsofts IIS server would process MS Internet Explorer browser requests faster than Netscape Navigator requests.
There was something about the IIS server running noop loops.They don't get the "Evil Empire" label for no good reason.
IMO.LoB</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30087478</id>
	<title>Re:silly</title>
	<author>RightSaidFred99</author>
	<datestamp>1258131180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This meaningless, baseless bit of drivel is "Insightful"?  It literally has no objective content of any kind.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>I love the Dallas Cowboys!</p></div><p>Oooh, that's insightful!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This meaningless , baseless bit of drivel is " Insightful " ?
It literally has no objective content of any kind.I love the Dallas Cowboys ! Oooh , that 's insightful !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This meaningless, baseless bit of drivel is "Insightful"?
It literally has no objective content of any kind.I love the Dallas Cowboys!Oooh, that's insightful!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085506</id>
	<title>Re:The more things change...</title>
	<author>Locutus</author>
	<datestamp>1258119480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know if Source Safe was originally DOS based, UNIX based, or both but I do recall seeing the UNIX version of Visual Source Safe variant and it really sucked. The UNIX box GUI was CDE and Motif based but the Visual Source Save GUI was based on Windows 3.x.  They made no effort to integrate it into the UNIX desktop as if they were saying, "We are Microsoft, Windows is our product, this is a Windows based product so be happy you have it at all."<br><br>FYI, Microsoft produced Visual Source Safe after purchasing One Tree Software. From the wikipedia page, it was a 16 bit commandline app when they purchased the company. It was not client server based but could be used like MS Access with shared network disks. Microsoft bought them in 94 but it wasn't until 2005 that the product became client server based.<br><br>LoB</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know if Source Safe was originally DOS based , UNIX based , or both but I do recall seeing the UNIX version of Visual Source Safe variant and it really sucked .
The UNIX box GUI was CDE and Motif based but the Visual Source Save GUI was based on Windows 3.x .
They made no effort to integrate it into the UNIX desktop as if they were saying , " We are Microsoft , Windows is our product , this is a Windows based product so be happy you have it at all .
" FYI , Microsoft produced Visual Source Safe after purchasing One Tree Software .
From the wikipedia page , it was a 16 bit commandline app when they purchased the company .
It was not client server based but could be used like MS Access with shared network disks .
Microsoft bought them in 94 but it was n't until 2005 that the product became client server based.LoB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know if Source Safe was originally DOS based, UNIX based, or both but I do recall seeing the UNIX version of Visual Source Safe variant and it really sucked.
The UNIX box GUI was CDE and Motif based but the Visual Source Save GUI was based on Windows 3.x.
They made no effort to integrate it into the UNIX desktop as if they were saying, "We are Microsoft, Windows is our product, this is a Windows based product so be happy you have it at all.
"FYI, Microsoft produced Visual Source Safe after purchasing One Tree Software.
From the wikipedia page, it was a 16 bit commandline app when they purchased the company.
It was not client server based but could be used like MS Access with shared network disks.
Microsoft bought them in 94 but it wasn't until 2005 that the product became client server based.LoB</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085188</id>
	<title>Integrated Systems - no suggestion, just comments</title>
	<author>QuestorTapes</author>
	<datestamp>1258115460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Quick disclaimer: I don't use TFS, and don't care for integrated solutions - not just MS, but any of them.</p><p>&gt;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...using TFS was the first time I realized how much an integrated source control, team collaboration<br>&gt; site, project management integrated solution makes sense.</p><p>In some scenarios. I know any number of companies where the MS integrated solution you use would fail utterly to be useful, because the people would not use the tools properly. Not just developers, but project managers, users, etc.</p><p>The *nix/open source advocates generally don't favor all-in-one packaged systems. The vast majority of the time, the system has specific, glaring deficiencies, While it often works well for a specific group, it fails to support others adequately.</p><p>This condemnation has been levied against Eclipse regularly, and from personal experience, I can tell you that the Visual Studio IDE alone, while it is absolutely adored by many, is in many ways a useless tinkertoy for others. MS (and other all-in-one solution providers) don't provide the perfect experience. They target a specific group, and often their "solutions" actively undercut the work of others. Some specifics:</p><p>&gt; * Integrated work items with specialized and extensible work item types for tasks, bugs, issues etc.</p><p>Working with a system now at one assignment that is remarkably poor. It works beautifully...for on-call help desk support. It actively -impedes- tracking of bugs and tasks for development. I actually use a full external tool and update the approved system at the end. This is awfully inefficient: only 10 times more productive than trying to use the approved tool.</p><p>&gt; * Work items, tasks, issues etc. editable through a web interface, but also right from inside the IDE.</p><p>That's handy - if everyone uses it. Where I'm on assignment, no one can be bothered to update information. I track things in my a web-enabled system, as I said. Several times a week, someone asks me to print out information in that system. It's become the system of record for a lot of this information, and anyone can use it; but I'm the only one who does. Everyone else's data is in little silos.</p><p>&gt; * Work items, tasks, issues etc. editable through Excel or some other spreadsheet (regrettably project<br>&gt; managers favorite tool is *still* Excel - but having it integrated so the rest of us don't have to<br>&gt; mock around inside columns and rows to update status is a big relief).</p><p>Again, handy -- if anyone uses it. Not so handy when people actively break it by mucking around with the Excel sheets.</p><p>Just kill Excel use.</p><p>&gt; * Source control without quirks when e.g. renaming files or removing files and adding files back with the<br>&gt; same names (I've had bad experience with subversion)</p><p>Others have complained about similar issues, but they aren't universal. Chances are you're not managing the files properly in subversion. But subversion isn't the be-all and the end-all of open source revision control. It was never intended to be, just a better CVS.</p><p>Git is very nice, and there are -many- others to look at. Check Wikipedia.</p><p>&gt; * Shelving - storage of not-completed changes on the server without checking in. We use it to share<br>&gt; suggestions and if we cannot make the daily deadline on consistent check-ins.</p><p>Never used it. Frankly sounds like a hack; why not use a branch?</p><p>&gt; * Configurable policy which can be set to reject commits/check-ins if a build has not been completed<br>&gt; locally and/or if too many tests fails and/or if test coverage is too low and/or if there are too<br>&gt; many/certain warnings (e.g. security related).</p><p>&gt; * Dashboard with project manager-friendly roll-ups and graphs with speed, test coverage, test<br>&gt; completions, tasks, status etc.</p><p>Tons of options and tools. Again, not an "integrated" one I can recommend, as I don't care for integrated.</p><p>&gt; * Branching based on metadata - not on actual directory copying and separat</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Quick disclaimer : I do n't use TFS , and do n't care for integrated solutions - not just MS , but any of them. &gt; ...using TFS was the first time I realized how much an integrated source control , team collaboration &gt; site , project management integrated solution makes sense.In some scenarios .
I know any number of companies where the MS integrated solution you use would fail utterly to be useful , because the people would not use the tools properly .
Not just developers , but project managers , users , etc.The * nix/open source advocates generally do n't favor all-in-one packaged systems .
The vast majority of the time , the system has specific , glaring deficiencies , While it often works well for a specific group , it fails to support others adequately.This condemnation has been levied against Eclipse regularly , and from personal experience , I can tell you that the Visual Studio IDE alone , while it is absolutely adored by many , is in many ways a useless tinkertoy for others .
MS ( and other all-in-one solution providers ) do n't provide the perfect experience .
They target a specific group , and often their " solutions " actively undercut the work of others .
Some specifics : &gt; * Integrated work items with specialized and extensible work item types for tasks , bugs , issues etc.Working with a system now at one assignment that is remarkably poor .
It works beautifully...for on-call help desk support .
It actively -impedes- tracking of bugs and tasks for development .
I actually use a full external tool and update the approved system at the end .
This is awfully inefficient : only 10 times more productive than trying to use the approved tool. &gt; * Work items , tasks , issues etc .
editable through a web interface , but also right from inside the IDE.That 's handy - if everyone uses it .
Where I 'm on assignment , no one can be bothered to update information .
I track things in my a web-enabled system , as I said .
Several times a week , someone asks me to print out information in that system .
It 's become the system of record for a lot of this information , and anyone can use it ; but I 'm the only one who does .
Everyone else 's data is in little silos. &gt; * Work items , tasks , issues etc .
editable through Excel or some other spreadsheet ( regrettably project &gt; managers favorite tool is * still * Excel - but having it integrated so the rest of us do n't have to &gt; mock around inside columns and rows to update status is a big relief ) .Again , handy -- if anyone uses it .
Not so handy when people actively break it by mucking around with the Excel sheets.Just kill Excel use. &gt; * Source control without quirks when e.g .
renaming files or removing files and adding files back with the &gt; same names ( I 've had bad experience with subversion ) Others have complained about similar issues , but they are n't universal .
Chances are you 're not managing the files properly in subversion .
But subversion is n't the be-all and the end-all of open source revision control .
It was never intended to be , just a better CVS.Git is very nice , and there are -many- others to look at .
Check Wikipedia. &gt; * Shelving - storage of not-completed changes on the server without checking in .
We use it to share &gt; suggestions and if we can not make the daily deadline on consistent check-ins.Never used it .
Frankly sounds like a hack ; why not use a branch ? &gt; * Configurable policy which can be set to reject commits/check-ins if a build has not been completed &gt; locally and/or if too many tests fails and/or if test coverage is too low and/or if there are too &gt; many/certain warnings ( e.g .
security related ) . &gt; * Dashboard with project manager-friendly roll-ups and graphs with speed , test coverage , test &gt; completions , tasks , status etc.Tons of options and tools .
Again , not an " integrated " one I can recommend , as I do n't care for integrated. &gt; * Branching based on metadata - not on actual directory copying and separat</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quick disclaimer: I don't use TFS, and don't care for integrated solutions - not just MS, but any of them.&gt; ...using TFS was the first time I realized how much an integrated source control, team collaboration&gt; site, project management integrated solution makes sense.In some scenarios.
I know any number of companies where the MS integrated solution you use would fail utterly to be useful, because the people would not use the tools properly.
Not just developers, but project managers, users, etc.The *nix/open source advocates generally don't favor all-in-one packaged systems.
The vast majority of the time, the system has specific, glaring deficiencies, While it often works well for a specific group, it fails to support others adequately.This condemnation has been levied against Eclipse regularly, and from personal experience, I can tell you that the Visual Studio IDE alone, while it is absolutely adored by many, is in many ways a useless tinkertoy for others.
MS (and other all-in-one solution providers) don't provide the perfect experience.
They target a specific group, and often their "solutions" actively undercut the work of others.
Some specifics:&gt; * Integrated work items with specialized and extensible work item types for tasks, bugs, issues etc.Working with a system now at one assignment that is remarkably poor.
It works beautifully...for on-call help desk support.
It actively -impedes- tracking of bugs and tasks for development.
I actually use a full external tool and update the approved system at the end.
This is awfully inefficient: only 10 times more productive than trying to use the approved tool.&gt; * Work items, tasks, issues etc.
editable through a web interface, but also right from inside the IDE.That's handy - if everyone uses it.
Where I'm on assignment, no one can be bothered to update information.
I track things in my a web-enabled system, as I said.
Several times a week, someone asks me to print out information in that system.
It's become the system of record for a lot of this information, and anyone can use it; but I'm the only one who does.
Everyone else's data is in little silos.&gt; * Work items, tasks, issues etc.
editable through Excel or some other spreadsheet (regrettably project&gt; managers favorite tool is *still* Excel - but having it integrated so the rest of us don't have to&gt; mock around inside columns and rows to update status is a big relief).Again, handy -- if anyone uses it.
Not so handy when people actively break it by mucking around with the Excel sheets.Just kill Excel use.&gt; * Source control without quirks when e.g.
renaming files or removing files and adding files back with the&gt; same names (I've had bad experience with subversion)Others have complained about similar issues, but they aren't universal.
Chances are you're not managing the files properly in subversion.
But subversion isn't the be-all and the end-all of open source revision control.
It was never intended to be, just a better CVS.Git is very nice, and there are -many- others to look at.
Check Wikipedia.&gt; * Shelving - storage of not-completed changes on the server without checking in.
We use it to share&gt; suggestions and if we cannot make the daily deadline on consistent check-ins.Never used it.
Frankly sounds like a hack; why not use a branch?&gt; * Configurable policy which can be set to reject commits/check-ins if a build has not been completed&gt; locally and/or if too many tests fails and/or if test coverage is too low and/or if there are too&gt; many/certain warnings (e.g.
security related).&gt; * Dashboard with project manager-friendly roll-ups and graphs with speed, test coverage, test&gt; completions, tasks, status etc.Tons of options and tools.
Again, not an "integrated" one I can recommend, as I don't care for integrated.&gt; * Branching based on metadata - not on actual directory copying and separat</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084720</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084764</id>
	<title>Microsoft have done this before...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258108680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; but the fact that Microsoft themselves will now be developing and shipping products based on those heterogeneous platforms, including 5 versions of Unix."</p><p>Are you sure? You may find Microsoft do the same thing here and just strip the Linux functionality out. When Microsoft took over Connectix and their excellent Virtual PC Software and proceeded to strip Linux functionality (that was already there) out of the product. On the Connectix version there was a Linux utility that handled control back to Windows when the CPU was idle. On the Microsoft version they took that out, so the CPU always ran at 100\%. It made Virtual PC useless for Linux.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; but the fact that Microsoft themselves will now be developing and shipping products based on those heterogeneous platforms , including 5 versions of Unix .
" Are you sure ?
You may find Microsoft do the same thing here and just strip the Linux functionality out .
When Microsoft took over Connectix and their excellent Virtual PC Software and proceeded to strip Linux functionality ( that was already there ) out of the product .
On the Connectix version there was a Linux utility that handled control back to Windows when the CPU was idle .
On the Microsoft version they took that out , so the CPU always ran at 100 \ % .
It made Virtual PC useless for Linux .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; but the fact that Microsoft themselves will now be developing and shipping products based on those heterogeneous platforms, including 5 versions of Unix.
"Are you sure?
You may find Microsoft do the same thing here and just strip the Linux functionality out.
When Microsoft took over Connectix and their excellent Virtual PC Software and proceeded to strip Linux functionality (that was already there) out of the product.
On the Connectix version there was a Linux utility that handled control back to Windows when the CPU was idle.
On the Microsoft version they took that out, so the CPU always ran at 100\%.
It made Virtual PC useless for Linux.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30089414</id>
	<title>Re:Fully integrated Mono on Linux with Eclipse?</title>
	<author>HermMunster</author>
	<datestamp>1258139760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Extend...Extinguish</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Extend...Extinguish</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Extend...Extinguish</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30083852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084572</id>
	<title>Well ...</title>
	<author>Norsefire</author>
	<datestamp>1258106100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>"If Microsoft ever does applications for Linux it means I've won." - <a href="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/l/linustorva381582.html" title="brainyquote.com">Linus Torvalds</a> [brainyquote.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>" If Microsoft ever does applications for Linux it means I 've won .
" - Linus Torvalds [ brainyquote.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"If Microsoft ever does applications for Linux it means I've won.
" - Linus Torvalds [brainyquote.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084562</id>
	<title>The more things change...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258105920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Microsoft themselves will now be developing and shipping products based on those heterogeneous platforms, including 5 versions of Unix.</p></div></blockquote><p>
It isn't the first time. Microsoft used to provide tools for accessing Visual SourceSafe repositories from UNIX. Needless to say, these tools were utterly terrible yet allowed them to claim that VSS "supported UNIX". I don't expect Microsoft to go out of their way to "support UNIX" this time around any more than they did previously.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft themselves will now be developing and shipping products based on those heterogeneous platforms , including 5 versions of Unix .
It is n't the first time .
Microsoft used to provide tools for accessing Visual SourceSafe repositories from UNIX .
Needless to say , these tools were utterly terrible yet allowed them to claim that VSS " supported UNIX " .
I do n't expect Microsoft to go out of their way to " support UNIX " this time around any more than they did previously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft themselves will now be developing and shipping products based on those heterogeneous platforms, including 5 versions of Unix.
It isn't the first time.
Microsoft used to provide tools for accessing Visual SourceSafe repositories from UNIX.
Needless to say, these tools were utterly terrible yet allowed them to claim that VSS "supported UNIX".
I don't expect Microsoft to go out of their way to "support UNIX" this time around any more than they did previously.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30086442</id>
	<title>Do you really want to go there?</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1258126320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Lemme guess: Home, Ultimate, Pro, Pro-er, and Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious</i> </p><p>There are - let us say - 200 or so Linux distributions.</p><p> "You can't tell the players without a program." <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Linux\_distributions" title="wikipedia.org">List of Linux distributions</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lem me guess : Home , Ultimate , Pro , Pro-er , and Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious There are - let us say - 200 or so Linux distributions .
" You ca n't tell the players without a program .
" List of Linux distributions [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lemme guess: Home, Ultimate, Pro, Pro-er, and Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious There are - let us say - 200 or so Linux distributions.
"You can't tell the players without a program.
" List of Linux distributions [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085006</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085424</id>
	<title>Re:Well ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258118700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That Microsoft ships software on Linux is not news, Microsoft have been doing that for a while now.<br>Ever since Microsoft bought Fast Search &amp; Transfer some time back, it has been shipping the Fast ESP platform on Linux and some other Unix platforms.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That Microsoft ships software on Linux is not news , Microsoft have been doing that for a while now.Ever since Microsoft bought Fast Search &amp; Transfer some time back , it has been shipping the Fast ESP platform on Linux and some other Unix platforms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That Microsoft ships software on Linux is not news, Microsoft have been doing that for a while now.Ever since Microsoft bought Fast Search &amp; Transfer some time back, it has been shipping the Fast ESP platform on Linux and some other Unix platforms.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085374</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft have done this before...</title>
	<author>robmv</author>
	<datestamp>1258118160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They do not need to migrate, just hardcode C:\ or use \ as file separators instead of the java.io.File.separator constant</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They do not need to migrate , just hardcode C : \ or use \ as file separators instead of the java.io.File.separator constant</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They do not need to migrate, just hardcode C:\ or use \ as file separators instead of the java.io.File.separator constant</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085110</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085104</id>
	<title>Re:silly</title>
	<author>jipn4</author>
	<datestamp>1258114140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>So, is there an open source integrated solution or combo which will meet the following requirements?</i></p><p>Shelving, configurable policies, and branching based on metadata are standard parts of most major distributed version control systems.  They're all integrated into Eclipse and other IDEs.</p><p>Integrated work items, issue tracking, dashboard, unit testing, code coverage, continuous integration, are provided by several front-ends and additional tools.  That's not a one-size-fits-all thing, since different languages, tools, team compositions, and team sizes are best served by different tools (the fact that TFS is a one-size-fits-all solution is a net minus).  Many provide good web interfaces and IDE integration.</p><p>I won't name specific ones, because there are so many, but since you mention Subversion--it is obsolete.</p><p>Linux distributions let you mix and match those tools very easily: you just pick whatever components you need (version control, bug tracking, etc.).  For common configurations, you can get virtual images or commercial hosting as well.</p><p>TFS may be the best choice if you run a Windows-only, VisualStudio-only shop because it "knows" a lot about that environment.  Once other platforms are involved, you're better off using a non-Microsoft team development server.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , is there an open source integrated solution or combo which will meet the following requirements ? Shelving , configurable policies , and branching based on metadata are standard parts of most major distributed version control systems .
They 're all integrated into Eclipse and other IDEs.Integrated work items , issue tracking , dashboard , unit testing , code coverage , continuous integration , are provided by several front-ends and additional tools .
That 's not a one-size-fits-all thing , since different languages , tools , team compositions , and team sizes are best served by different tools ( the fact that TFS is a one-size-fits-all solution is a net minus ) .
Many provide good web interfaces and IDE integration.I wo n't name specific ones , because there are so many , but since you mention Subversion--it is obsolete.Linux distributions let you mix and match those tools very easily : you just pick whatever components you need ( version control , bug tracking , etc. ) .
For common configurations , you can get virtual images or commercial hosting as well.TFS may be the best choice if you run a Windows-only , VisualStudio-only shop because it " knows " a lot about that environment .
Once other platforms are involved , you 're better off using a non-Microsoft team development server .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, is there an open source integrated solution or combo which will meet the following requirements?Shelving, configurable policies, and branching based on metadata are standard parts of most major distributed version control systems.
They're all integrated into Eclipse and other IDEs.Integrated work items, issue tracking, dashboard, unit testing, code coverage, continuous integration, are provided by several front-ends and additional tools.
That's not a one-size-fits-all thing, since different languages, tools, team compositions, and team sizes are best served by different tools (the fact that TFS is a one-size-fits-all solution is a net minus).
Many provide good web interfaces and IDE integration.I won't name specific ones, because there are so many, but since you mention Subversion--it is obsolete.Linux distributions let you mix and match those tools very easily: you just pick whatever components you need (version control, bug tracking, etc.).
For common configurations, you can get virtual images or commercial hosting as well.TFS may be the best choice if you run a Windows-only, VisualStudio-only shop because it "knows" a lot about that environment.
Once other platforms are involved, you're better off using a non-Microsoft team development server.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084720</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084850</id>
	<title>Re:The more things change...</title>
	<author>master5o1</author>
	<datestamp>1258110060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To be nit picky, I also noticed that there are only 4 versions of Unix.  Linux not being Unix and all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>To be nit picky , I also noticed that there are only 4 versions of Unix .
Linux not being Unix and all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To be nit picky, I also noticed that there are only 4 versions of Unix.
Linux not being Unix and all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084562</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084632</id>
	<title>Believe it when I see it...restart my 7 year clock</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258106940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>To date, Microsoft has only hampered open source, open data formats, Linux, Unix and FOSS at every step of the way.  So I do not believe it, can not believe it, will not believe it (words ~ FUD) until I see a 7 year positive track record with respects to anything non-Microsoft.

<p>When they have shown by their actions, over seven years, that they have changed, than and only than will I consider purchasing Microsoft products again.

</p><p>For each violation, I reset my 7 year clock from that day.  Just reset it this week.

</p><p>Basing my purchase decisions on their actions ONLY and not their marketing FUD, is the only way I can be sure not to ever be vendor locked-in ever again.  So much time and money has been wasted by me, my friends, my family and other IT professionals over the last 20+ years...wasteful and unnecessary.

</p><p>I will believe it when I see it.  To date it has always been FUD!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To date , Microsoft has only hampered open source , open data formats , Linux , Unix and FOSS at every step of the way .
So I do not believe it , can not believe it , will not believe it ( words ~ FUD ) until I see a 7 year positive track record with respects to anything non-Microsoft .
When they have shown by their actions , over seven years , that they have changed , than and only than will I consider purchasing Microsoft products again .
For each violation , I reset my 7 year clock from that day .
Just reset it this week .
Basing my purchase decisions on their actions ONLY and not their marketing FUD , is the only way I can be sure not to ever be vendor locked-in ever again .
So much time and money has been wasted by me , my friends , my family and other IT professionals over the last 20 + years...wasteful and unnecessary .
I will believe it when I see it .
To date it has always been FUD !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To date, Microsoft has only hampered open source, open data formats, Linux, Unix and FOSS at every step of the way.
So I do not believe it, can not believe it, will not believe it (words ~ FUD) until I see a 7 year positive track record with respects to anything non-Microsoft.
When they have shown by their actions, over seven years, that they have changed, than and only than will I consider purchasing Microsoft products again.
For each violation, I reset my 7 year clock from that day.
Just reset it this week.
Basing my purchase decisions on their actions ONLY and not their marketing FUD, is the only way I can be sure not to ever be vendor locked-in ever again.
So much time and money has been wasted by me, my friends, my family and other IT professionals over the last 20+ years...wasteful and unnecessary.
I will believe it when I see it.
To date it has always been FUD!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30086086</id>
	<title>Re:Believe it when I see it...restart my 7 year cl</title>
	<author>LifesABeach</author>
	<datestamp>1258124460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You do not stand alone. In 1993, one could call Microsoft and ask for help; today, get out your credit card.  I remember a day when m$ was a part of the micro computer industry; now m$ is its apex predator.  20 years ago, when I spoke these words,  I was talking about IBM/UNISYS/Teradata, m$ is now what these companies were.  I have shown my family, friends, colleagues, and supervisors that one does not need gates, when one doesn't need windows; and as times get harder, these people listen more.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You do not stand alone .
In 1993 , one could call Microsoft and ask for help ; today , get out your credit card .
I remember a day when m $ was a part of the micro computer industry ; now m $ is its apex predator .
20 years ago , when I spoke these words , I was talking about IBM/UNISYS/Teradata , m $ is now what these companies were .
I have shown my family , friends , colleagues , and supervisors that one does not need gates , when one does n't need windows ; and as times get harder , these people listen more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You do not stand alone.
In 1993, one could call Microsoft and ask for help; today, get out your credit card.
I remember a day when m$ was a part of the micro computer industry; now m$ is its apex predator.
20 years ago, when I spoke these words,  I was talking about IBM/UNISYS/Teradata, m$ is now what these companies were.
I have shown my family, friends, colleagues, and supervisors that one does not need gates, when one doesn't need windows; and as times get harder, these people listen more.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084594</id>
	<title>silly</title>
	<author>jipn4</author>
	<datestamp>1258106520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is software for accessing repositories stored in Microsoft's "Microsoft Visual Studio Team Foundation Server " from Linux and Eclipse.  I have never seen a usable Microsoft POSIX or Linux product; even if they don't deliberately sabotage it, they apparently don't have the expertise to produce such a thing.  Teamprise may have some capable Linux developers now, but how long do you think those are going to stay?</p><p>You're much better off throwing out Microsoft's crappy server software and replacing it with a nice, high quality open source solution.  Not only do you get better version control and team software, you're also assured that the Linux and Eclipse clients will keep working.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is software for accessing repositories stored in Microsoft 's " Microsoft Visual Studio Team Foundation Server " from Linux and Eclipse .
I have never seen a usable Microsoft POSIX or Linux product ; even if they do n't deliberately sabotage it , they apparently do n't have the expertise to produce such a thing .
Teamprise may have some capable Linux developers now , but how long do you think those are going to stay ? You 're much better off throwing out Microsoft 's crappy server software and replacing it with a nice , high quality open source solution .
Not only do you get better version control and team software , you 're also assured that the Linux and Eclipse clients will keep working .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is software for accessing repositories stored in Microsoft's "Microsoft Visual Studio Team Foundation Server " from Linux and Eclipse.
I have never seen a usable Microsoft POSIX or Linux product; even if they don't deliberately sabotage it, they apparently don't have the expertise to produce such a thing.
Teamprise may have some capable Linux developers now, but how long do you think those are going to stay?You're much better off throwing out Microsoft's crappy server software and replacing it with a nice, high quality open source solution.
Not only do you get better version control and team software, you're also assured that the Linux and Eclipse clients will keep working.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084920</id>
	<title>Re:Believe it when I see it...restart my 7 year cl</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1258111200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not sure that even Google can pass that requirement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure that even Google can pass that requirement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure that even Google can pass that requirement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084724</id>
	<title>Announced on ... Friday 13th</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258108140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>That is announced on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Friday 13th. Halloween is over, so could it be they needed another telling day?</htmltext>
<tokenext>That is announced on ... Friday 13th .
Halloween is over , so could it be they needed another telling day ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is announced on ... Friday 13th.
Halloween is over, so could it be they needed another telling day?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30083852</id>
	<title>Fully integrated Mono on Linux with Eclipse?</title>
	<author>deanston</author>
	<datestamp>1258051740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I rather have the equivalent of VS on Linux than just another Eclipse plug-in. Here comes the Embrace...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I rather have the equivalent of VS on Linux than just another Eclipse plug-in .
Here comes the Embrace.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I rather have the equivalent of VS on Linux than just another Eclipse plug-in.
Here comes the Embrace...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30083866</id>
	<title>No, no</title>
	<author>Tim99</author>
	<datestamp>1258051800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's a trap, I tell you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a trap , I tell you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a trap, I tell you.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085890</id>
	<title>Re:5 Microsoft versions of Linux</title>
	<author>SenFo</author>
	<datestamp>1258123200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're a funny troll, and I'm going to feed you. Do you like Cheetos?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're a funny troll , and I 'm going to feed you .
Do you like Cheetos ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're a funny troll, and I'm going to feed you.
Do you like Cheetos?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085006</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085326</id>
	<title>Supports missing parts of MSFT tool suite</title>
	<author>ksni</author>
	<datestamp>1258117440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Teamprise does enable (much richer) intergration with Team Foundation Server from tools such a Borlands requirements management solution CaliberRM.  This isnt explicitly about cross platform support, surely its about bolstering the TFS proposition and its very much MSFT recognising that they do not have a complete tool solution for Enterprise solution development.

So from a Windows /<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.net development shops standpoint, Teamprise can be seen as an enabler to getting the best out of tools that are currently missing from the MS toolkit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Teamprise does enable ( much richer ) intergration with Team Foundation Server from tools such a Borlands requirements management solution CaliberRM .
This isnt explicitly about cross platform support , surely its about bolstering the TFS proposition and its very much MSFT recognising that they do not have a complete tool solution for Enterprise solution development .
So from a Windows / .net development shops standpoint , Teamprise can be seen as an enabler to getting the best out of tools that are currently missing from the MS toolkit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Teamprise does enable (much richer) intergration with Team Foundation Server from tools such a Borlands requirements management solution CaliberRM.
This isnt explicitly about cross platform support, surely its about bolstering the TFS proposition and its very much MSFT recognising that they do not have a complete tool solution for Enterprise solution development.
So from a Windows / .net development shops standpoint, Teamprise can be seen as an enabler to getting the best out of tools that are currently missing from the MS toolkit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084780</id>
	<title>Would you buy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258108860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The question to anyone considering buying a Unix from MS is<p>
Would you buy a used horse from a convicted horse-rapist?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The question to anyone considering buying a Unix from MS is Would you buy a used horse from a convicted horse-rapist ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The question to anyone considering buying a Unix from MS is
Would you buy a used horse from a convicted horse-rapist?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085264</id>
	<title>Re:Believe it when I see it...restart my 7 year cl</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258116540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>darn right and just look at their purchase of Danger and what they did there. They tried to change the technology from what was working to Windows and when that failed, they gutted the division of many of it's developers to work on another project, Pink, which would replace the Danger products.  They have always, and continue, to make sure Windows is job #1, #2, #3 etc because their profits have always been based on Windows no matter the market share of any other product.<br><br>The only thing interesting here is how they'll kill this and if their customers are resistant enough to oppose the Windowsization of the productline.<br><br>LoB</htmltext>
<tokenext>darn right and just look at their purchase of Danger and what they did there .
They tried to change the technology from what was working to Windows and when that failed , they gutted the division of many of it 's developers to work on another project , Pink , which would replace the Danger products .
They have always , and continue , to make sure Windows is job # 1 , # 2 , # 3 etc because their profits have always been based on Windows no matter the market share of any other product.The only thing interesting here is how they 'll kill this and if their customers are resistant enough to oppose the Windowsization of the productline.LoB</tokentext>
<sentencetext>darn right and just look at their purchase of Danger and what they did there.
They tried to change the technology from what was working to Windows and when that failed, they gutted the division of many of it's developers to work on another project, Pink, which would replace the Danger products.
They have always, and continue, to make sure Windows is job #1, #2, #3 etc because their profits have always been based on Windows no matter the market share of any other product.The only thing interesting here is how they'll kill this and if their customers are resistant enough to oppose the Windowsization of the productline.LoB</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085628</id>
	<title>Re:5 Microsoft versions of Linux</title>
	<author>macbuzz01</author>
	<datestamp>1258120920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious wouldn't work as a version name, b/c it's more than 8 characters. Somewhere it would be chopped to Supercal, which coincidentally is also the name of the only CAL you can by for Server 2013.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious would n't work as a version name , b/c it 's more than 8 characters .
Somewhere it would be chopped to Supercal , which coincidentally is also the name of the only CAL you can by for Server 2013 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious wouldn't work as a version name, b/c it's more than 8 characters.
Somewhere it would be chopped to Supercal, which coincidentally is also the name of the only CAL you can by for Server 2013.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085006</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30088514</id>
	<title>Re:The more things change...</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1258136460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I don't know if Source Safe was originally DOS based.."</p><p>The first version used a command line so it probably started in DOS. By the time Microsoft bought One Tree Software (the original developer) it was Windows-based (Version 2).</p><p>Although SS's architecture didn't scale properly, it was a pretty nice tool for the era and environment it ran on (i.e. 1993, Windows 3.1).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I do n't know if Source Safe was originally DOS based.. " The first version used a command line so it probably started in DOS .
By the time Microsoft bought One Tree Software ( the original developer ) it was Windows-based ( Version 2 ) .Although SS 's architecture did n't scale properly , it was a pretty nice tool for the era and environment it ran on ( i.e .
1993 , Windows 3.1 ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I don't know if Source Safe was originally DOS based.."The first version used a command line so it probably started in DOS.
By the time Microsoft bought One Tree Software (the original developer) it was Windows-based (Version 2).Although SS's architecture didn't scale properly, it was a pretty nice tool for the era and environment it ran on (i.e.
1993, Windows 3.1).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085506</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30087058</id>
	<title>Re:The more things change...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258129200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>FYI</p></div></blockquote><p>
I know. I once had the dubious pleasure of administrating a VSS repository. I always thought the recovery tool was aptly named (analyze.exe), as it certainly did anal-ize you whenever you used it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>FYI I know .
I once had the dubious pleasure of administrating a VSS repository .
I always thought the recovery tool was aptly named ( analyze.exe ) , as it certainly did anal-ize you whenever you used it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FYI
I know.
I once had the dubious pleasure of administrating a VSS repository.
I always thought the recovery tool was aptly named (analyze.exe), as it certainly did anal-ize you whenever you used it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085506</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084582</id>
	<title>Say goodbye to the Linux versions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258106280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Last time I had an experience with M$ buying a company, it was RAV and the first thing they did was discontinue the Linux support.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Last time I had an experience with M $ buying a company , it was RAV and the first thing they did was discontinue the Linux support .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last time I had an experience with M$ buying a company, it was RAV and the first thing they did was discontinue the Linux support.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084820</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft have done this before...</title>
	<author>NeoStrider\_BZK</author>
	<datestamp>1258109640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lets not forget XENIX. In early 90s, MS sold XENIX - its own brand of UNIX (they obviously bought from someone else and ported to x86).<br>They're probably thinking: "If those open source companies can make shell out at free products, so can I"...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets not forget XENIX .
In early 90s , MS sold XENIX - its own brand of UNIX ( they obviously bought from someone else and ported to x86 ) .They 're probably thinking : " If those open source companies can make shell out at free products , so can I " .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets not forget XENIX.
In early 90s, MS sold XENIX - its own brand of UNIX (they obviously bought from someone else and ported to x86).They're probably thinking: "If those open source companies can make shell out at free products, so can I"...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30089186</id>
	<title>Re:Well ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258139040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A long time ago it was possible to buy Windows Media decoder code for Linux for embedded devices from Microsoft. This was never well-publicized.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A long time ago it was possible to buy Windows Media decoder code for Linux for embedded devices from Microsoft .
This was never well-publicized .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A long time ago it was possible to buy Windows Media decoder code for Linux for embedded devices from Microsoft.
This was never well-publicized.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085370</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft have done this before...</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1258118160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>On the Connectix version there was a Linux utility that handled control back to Windows when the CPU was idle. On the Microsoft version they took that out, so the CPU always ran at 100\%.</p></div><p>Ironically, if you use VMware instead of Virtual PC, you don't have this problem. It's almost like Microsoft doesn't want you using their software.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>On the Connectix version there was a Linux utility that handled control back to Windows when the CPU was idle .
On the Microsoft version they took that out , so the CPU always ran at 100 \ % .Ironically , if you use VMware instead of Virtual PC , you do n't have this problem .
It 's almost like Microsoft does n't want you using their software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the Connectix version there was a Linux utility that handled control back to Windows when the CPU was idle.
On the Microsoft version they took that out, so the CPU always ran at 100\%.Ironically, if you use VMware instead of Virtual PC, you don't have this problem.
It's almost like Microsoft doesn't want you using their software.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30086362</id>
	<title>Re:silly</title>
	<author>wumpus188</author>
	<datestamp>1258125900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You forgot</p><ul><li>Required Attendee 1</li><li>...</li><li>Required Attendee 8</li></ul><p>Very useful. Especially in corporate environments.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You forgotRequired Attendee 1...Required Attendee 8Very useful .
Especially in corporate environments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You forgotRequired Attendee 1...Required Attendee 8Very useful.
Especially in corporate environments.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084720</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084914</id>
	<title>Re:Would you buy?</title>
	<author>rishistar</author>
	<datestamp>1258111140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>The question to anyone considering buying a Unix from MS is</i></p><p><i>Would you buy a used horse from a convicted horse-rapist?</i> </p><p>Well, better than buying an *unused horse* from a horse rapist. That would be a sign that something is seriously wrong with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The question to anyone considering buying a Unix from MS isWould you buy a used horse from a convicted horse-rapist ?
Well , better than buying an * unused horse * from a horse rapist .
That would be a sign that something is seriously wrong with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The question to anyone considering buying a Unix from MS isWould you buy a used horse from a convicted horse-rapist?
Well, better than buying an *unused horse* from a horse rapist.
That would be a sign that something is seriously wrong with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30089262</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft have done this before...</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1258139340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Are you sure? You may find Microsoft do the same thing here and just strip the Linux functionality out.</p> </div><p>Teamprise has long been cooperating with Microsoft on this project, so this acquisition is just the continuation of that. It's not going to change much, except that it will now come as an "official Microsoft product", which is mostly to placate manager types making buying decisions.</p><p>MS originally supported this project when it was started, because, in this day and age, "one true platform" is no longer enough. There are enough customers that absolutely <em>need</em> their repositories accessible from OS X or Linux desktops. And Microsoft still wants to sell TFS (which isn't cheap by any margin, by the way) to those people.</p><p>It's the same reason why F# supports Mono, or why you see tutorials on how to set up PHP on IIS on TechNet. Competition doesn't mean that you cannot integrate your technologies with products of your competitors - even when said products also compete with yours - so long as there are paying customers who demand such integration.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Are you sure ?
You may find Microsoft do the same thing here and just strip the Linux functionality out .
Teamprise has long been cooperating with Microsoft on this project , so this acquisition is just the continuation of that .
It 's not going to change much , except that it will now come as an " official Microsoft product " , which is mostly to placate manager types making buying decisions.MS originally supported this project when it was started , because , in this day and age , " one true platform " is no longer enough .
There are enough customers that absolutely need their repositories accessible from OS X or Linux desktops .
And Microsoft still wants to sell TFS ( which is n't cheap by any margin , by the way ) to those people.It 's the same reason why F # supports Mono , or why you see tutorials on how to set up PHP on IIS on TechNet .
Competition does n't mean that you can not integrate your technologies with products of your competitors - even when said products also compete with yours - so long as there are paying customers who demand such integration .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are you sure?
You may find Microsoft do the same thing here and just strip the Linux functionality out.
Teamprise has long been cooperating with Microsoft on this project, so this acquisition is just the continuation of that.
It's not going to change much, except that it will now come as an "official Microsoft product", which is mostly to placate manager types making buying decisions.MS originally supported this project when it was started, because, in this day and age, "one true platform" is no longer enough.
There are enough customers that absolutely need their repositories accessible from OS X or Linux desktops.
And Microsoft still wants to sell TFS (which isn't cheap by any margin, by the way) to those people.It's the same reason why F# supports Mono, or why you see tutorials on how to set up PHP on IIS on TechNet.
Competition doesn't mean that you cannot integrate your technologies with products of your competitors - even when said products also compete with yours - so long as there are paying customers who demand such integration.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084764</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085006</id>
	<title>5 Microsoft versions of Linux</title>
	<author>Huntr</author>
	<datestamp>1258112700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Lemme guess:  Home, Ultimate, Pro, Pro-er, and Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lem me guess : Home , Ultimate , Pro , Pro-er , and Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lemme guess:  Home, Ultimate, Pro, Pro-er, and Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30087614</id>
	<title>Re:silly</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258131780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, TFS is very nice with integration and you get a complete solution without having to configure lots of different pieces. However, after several years with TFS (including time spent with the latest version,) my conclusion is that each part of the TFS puzzle fairs poorly in comparison to popular alternatives.</p><p>I'll choose Subversion (with VisualSVN and Tortoise) over TFS source control for better shell integration (compared to TFPT) and for a much, much better merge tool.</p><p>I'll choose JIRA with Fisheye over TFS project management for a superior web interface and out-of-the-box configuration. JIRA doesn't hit you over the head with ALM methodologies you may not want or need, and configuring TFS to fit your particular work style is an involved process. With Fisheye, everything you would want to know about your code is easily accessible. TFS may provide the same information, but you have to go digging for it.</p><p>Lastly, I'll choose TeamCity or Hudson over TFS Build because they work.</p><p>Sure, you have to do some work to approximate the integration TFS gives you out of the box. But I'll submit that the only integration that really matters at the end of the day is linking check-ins to work items, and a quick commit hook into SVN can easily ensure that nothing's checked in without a link to a JIRA issue.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , TFS is very nice with integration and you get a complete solution without having to configure lots of different pieces .
However , after several years with TFS ( including time spent with the latest version , ) my conclusion is that each part of the TFS puzzle fairs poorly in comparison to popular alternatives.I 'll choose Subversion ( with VisualSVN and Tortoise ) over TFS source control for better shell integration ( compared to TFPT ) and for a much , much better merge tool.I 'll choose JIRA with Fisheye over TFS project management for a superior web interface and out-of-the-box configuration .
JIRA does n't hit you over the head with ALM methodologies you may not want or need , and configuring TFS to fit your particular work style is an involved process .
With Fisheye , everything you would want to know about your code is easily accessible .
TFS may provide the same information , but you have to go digging for it.Lastly , I 'll choose TeamCity or Hudson over TFS Build because they work.Sure , you have to do some work to approximate the integration TFS gives you out of the box .
But I 'll submit that the only integration that really matters at the end of the day is linking check-ins to work items , and a quick commit hook into SVN can easily ensure that nothing 's checked in without a link to a JIRA issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, TFS is very nice with integration and you get a complete solution without having to configure lots of different pieces.
However, after several years with TFS (including time spent with the latest version,) my conclusion is that each part of the TFS puzzle fairs poorly in comparison to popular alternatives.I'll choose Subversion (with VisualSVN and Tortoise) over TFS source control for better shell integration (compared to TFPT) and for a much, much better merge tool.I'll choose JIRA with Fisheye over TFS project management for a superior web interface and out-of-the-box configuration.
JIRA doesn't hit you over the head with ALM methodologies you may not want or need, and configuring TFS to fit your particular work style is an involved process.
With Fisheye, everything you would want to know about your code is easily accessible.
TFS may provide the same information, but you have to go digging for it.Lastly, I'll choose TeamCity or Hudson over TFS Build because they work.Sure, you have to do some work to approximate the integration TFS gives you out of the box.
But I'll submit that the only integration that really matters at the end of the day is linking check-ins to work items, and a quick commit hook into SVN can easily ensure that nothing's checked in without a link to a JIRA issue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084720</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084950</id>
	<title>Trust</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258111680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The thing is, you have to have <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_v.\_Microsoft" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">trust</a> [wikipedia.org] in version control to be prepared to use it. You are putting your business in its hands, so it had better not <a href="http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20041112184610953" title="groklaw.net" rel="nofollow">break</a> [groklaw.net] or <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/11/05/how\_ms\_played\_the\_incompatibility/" title="theregister.co.uk" rel="nofollow">introduce errors on purpose</a> [theregister.co.uk]. Trust <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European\_Union\_Microsoft\_competition\_case" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">depends</a> [wikipedia.org] <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/08/ooxml\_eu\_probe\_iso/" title="theregister.co.uk" rel="nofollow">upon</a> [theregister.co.uk] your <a href="http://www.burst.com/new/newsevents/chairltr112004.htm" title="burst.com" rel="nofollow">reputation</a> [burst.com]. Reputation <a href="http://www.technologyevangelist.com/2007/02/microsoft\_dirty\_tric\_4.html" title="technologyevangelist.com" rel="nofollow">matters</a> [technologyevangelist.com].</p><p>Would you put your trust in the safety of your product in the hands of a company to whom the continued life of your product represented part of a competitive threat to their platform?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The thing is , you have to have trust [ wikipedia.org ] in version control to be prepared to use it .
You are putting your business in its hands , so it had better not break [ groklaw.net ] or introduce errors on purpose [ theregister.co.uk ] .
Trust depends [ wikipedia.org ] upon [ theregister.co.uk ] your reputation [ burst.com ] .
Reputation matters [ technologyevangelist.com ] .Would you put your trust in the safety of your product in the hands of a company to whom the continued life of your product represented part of a competitive threat to their platform ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The thing is, you have to have trust [wikipedia.org] in version control to be prepared to use it.
You are putting your business in its hands, so it had better not break [groklaw.net] or introduce errors on purpose [theregister.co.uk].
Trust depends [wikipedia.org] upon [theregister.co.uk] your reputation [burst.com].
Reputation matters [technologyevangelist.com].Would you put your trust in the safety of your product in the hands of a company to whom the continued life of your product represented part of a competitive threat to their platform?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30086886</id>
	<title>Re:Well ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258128300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What has he won exactly? Linux market share? Prevalance of GPL or similar as the most common license for software? Prevalance of FOSS as the most common type of software?</p><p>Oh wait, I've got it- a bet down the pub with some guy that he could get Microsoft to write an application for Linux!</p><p>Really, it makes a great soundbite, but I don't really understand what or how he has won. Microsoft develop apps for Mac OS X as well, and conversely, FOSS developers and Apple develop for Windows too.</p><p>Unfortunately, the bar needs to be set a bit higher than that by Torvalds and the Linux community for any such victory to be meaningful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What has he won exactly ?
Linux market share ?
Prevalance of GPL or similar as the most common license for software ?
Prevalance of FOSS as the most common type of software ? Oh wait , I 've got it- a bet down the pub with some guy that he could get Microsoft to write an application for Linux ! Really , it makes a great soundbite , but I do n't really understand what or how he has won .
Microsoft develop apps for Mac OS X as well , and conversely , FOSS developers and Apple develop for Windows too.Unfortunately , the bar needs to be set a bit higher than that by Torvalds and the Linux community for any such victory to be meaningful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What has he won exactly?
Linux market share?
Prevalance of GPL or similar as the most common license for software?
Prevalance of FOSS as the most common type of software?Oh wait, I've got it- a bet down the pub with some guy that he could get Microsoft to write an application for Linux!Really, it makes a great soundbite, but I don't really understand what or how he has won.
Microsoft develop apps for Mac OS X as well, and conversely, FOSS developers and Apple develop for Windows too.Unfortunately, the bar needs to be set a bit higher than that by Torvalds and the Linux community for any such victory to be meaningful.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30088092</id>
	<title>Re:silly</title>
	<author>BlindSpot</author>
	<datestamp>1258134120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At my old job we started using CruiseControl.NET + svn (using TortoiseSVN on Windows) 5 years ago - back when the first version of TFS couldn't even get basic checkins right - and it was fabulous.  Way ahead of its time.  Now my current job uses TFS and granted it's pretty good (but don't touch any version before 2008 Server!), however you can still do just mostly the same thing with CC+svn for something like $1500/dev less.  The reduced setup work and learning curve and VS integration is why companies like TFS, but if cost is your biggest concern then there are certainly other options.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At my old job we started using CruiseControl.NET + svn ( using TortoiseSVN on Windows ) 5 years ago - back when the first version of TFS could n't even get basic checkins right - and it was fabulous .
Way ahead of its time .
Now my current job uses TFS and granted it 's pretty good ( but do n't touch any version before 2008 Server !
) , however you can still do just mostly the same thing with CC + svn for something like $ 1500/dev less .
The reduced setup work and learning curve and VS integration is why companies like TFS , but if cost is your biggest concern then there are certainly other options .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At my old job we started using CruiseControl.NET + svn (using TortoiseSVN on Windows) 5 years ago - back when the first version of TFS couldn't even get basic checkins right - and it was fabulous.
Way ahead of its time.
Now my current job uses TFS and granted it's pretty good (but don't touch any version before 2008 Server!
), however you can still do just mostly the same thing with CC+svn for something like $1500/dev less.
The reduced setup work and learning curve and VS integration is why companies like TFS, but if cost is your biggest concern then there are certainly other options.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084720</id>
	<title>Re:silly</title>
	<author>benjymouse</author>
	<datestamp>1258108080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm working with TFS on a daily basis and I am thoroughly impressed - with the possible exception for the code "merging" tools. I am curious, what "nice, high quality open source solution" would be an alternative? This is not a jab or anything, but using TFS was the first time I realized how much an integrated source control, team collaboration site, project management integrated solution makes sense.

</p><p>So, is there an open source integrated solution or combo which will meet the following requirements?

</p><ul>
<li>Integrated work items with specialized and extensible work item types for tasks, bugs, issues etc.</li>
<li>Configurable policies which e.g. demands (or not) a work item reference when checking out and/or checking in.</li>
<li> Work items, tasks, issues etc. editable through a web interface, but also right from inside the IDE.</li>
<li>Work items, tasks, issues etc. editable through Excel or some other spreadsheet (regrettably project managers favorite tool is *still* Excel - but having it integrated so the rest of us don't have to mock around inside columns and rows to update status is a big relief).</li>
<li>Source control without quirks when e.g. renaming files or removing files and adding files back with the same names (I've had bad experience with subversion)</li>
<li>Shelving - storage of not-completed changes on the server without checking in. We use it to share suggestions and if we cannot make the daily deadline on consistent checkins.</li>
<li>Configurable policy which can be set to reject commits/checkins if a build has not been completed locally and/or if too many tests fails and/or if test coverage is too low and/or if there are too many/certain warnings (e.g. security related).</li>
<li>Dashboard with project manager-friendly rollups and graphs with speed, test coverage, test completions, tasks, status etc.</li>
<li>Branching based on metadata - not on actual directory copying and separate repositories/directories on the server (goes to performance).</li>
</ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm working with TFS on a daily basis and I am thoroughly impressed - with the possible exception for the code " merging " tools .
I am curious , what " nice , high quality open source solution " would be an alternative ?
This is not a jab or anything , but using TFS was the first time I realized how much an integrated source control , team collaboration site , project management integrated solution makes sense .
So , is there an open source integrated solution or combo which will meet the following requirements ?
Integrated work items with specialized and extensible work item types for tasks , bugs , issues etc .
Configurable policies which e.g .
demands ( or not ) a work item reference when checking out and/or checking in .
Work items , tasks , issues etc .
editable through a web interface , but also right from inside the IDE .
Work items , tasks , issues etc .
editable through Excel or some other spreadsheet ( regrettably project managers favorite tool is * still * Excel - but having it integrated so the rest of us do n't have to mock around inside columns and rows to update status is a big relief ) .
Source control without quirks when e.g .
renaming files or removing files and adding files back with the same names ( I 've had bad experience with subversion ) Shelving - storage of not-completed changes on the server without checking in .
We use it to share suggestions and if we can not make the daily deadline on consistent checkins .
Configurable policy which can be set to reject commits/checkins if a build has not been completed locally and/or if too many tests fails and/or if test coverage is too low and/or if there are too many/certain warnings ( e.g .
security related ) .
Dashboard with project manager-friendly rollups and graphs with speed , test coverage , test completions , tasks , status etc .
Branching based on metadata - not on actual directory copying and separate repositories/directories on the server ( goes to performance ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm working with TFS on a daily basis and I am thoroughly impressed - with the possible exception for the code "merging" tools.
I am curious, what "nice, high quality open source solution" would be an alternative?
This is not a jab or anything, but using TFS was the first time I realized how much an integrated source control, team collaboration site, project management integrated solution makes sense.
So, is there an open source integrated solution or combo which will meet the following requirements?
Integrated work items with specialized and extensible work item types for tasks, bugs, issues etc.
Configurable policies which e.g.
demands (or not) a work item reference when checking out and/or checking in.
Work items, tasks, issues etc.
editable through a web interface, but also right from inside the IDE.
Work items, tasks, issues etc.
editable through Excel or some other spreadsheet (regrettably project managers favorite tool is *still* Excel - but having it integrated so the rest of us don't have to mock around inside columns and rows to update status is a big relief).
Source control without quirks when e.g.
renaming files or removing files and adding files back with the same names (I've had bad experience with subversion)
Shelving - storage of not-completed changes on the server without checking in.
We use it to share suggestions and if we cannot make the daily deadline on consistent checkins.
Configurable policy which can be set to reject commits/checkins if a build has not been completed locally and/or if too many tests fails and/or if test coverage is too low and/or if there are too many/certain warnings (e.g.
security related).
Dashboard with project manager-friendly rollups and graphs with speed, test coverage, test completions, tasks, status etc.
Branching based on metadata - not on actual directory copying and separate repositories/directories on the server (goes to performance).
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084594</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30087048</id>
	<title>Re:The more things change...</title>
	<author>illumin8</author>
	<datestamp>1258129140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I don't know if Source Safe was originally DOS based, UNIX based, or both but I do recall seeing the UNIX version of Visual Source Safe variant and it really sucked.</p></div></blockquote><p>VSS is a terrible product indeed.  My company still uses VSS 2005 and it has a 4GB repository size limit!  Increasing beyond 4GB causes repository corruption.  This is especially frustrating because business types have access to it and seem to like to use VSS like a USB hard drive to back up their important documents, home pictures, and music.  I think the Windows admins have to take the thing down weekly just to repair the corruption.</p><p>It's absolutely terrible.  Anything, even CVS or SVN, would be light years ahead of VSS.  I'm just glad I'm not a developer forced to work on it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know if Source Safe was originally DOS based , UNIX based , or both but I do recall seeing the UNIX version of Visual Source Safe variant and it really sucked.VSS is a terrible product indeed .
My company still uses VSS 2005 and it has a 4GB repository size limit !
Increasing beyond 4GB causes repository corruption .
This is especially frustrating because business types have access to it and seem to like to use VSS like a USB hard drive to back up their important documents , home pictures , and music .
I think the Windows admins have to take the thing down weekly just to repair the corruption.It 's absolutely terrible .
Anything , even CVS or SVN , would be light years ahead of VSS .
I 'm just glad I 'm not a developer forced to work on it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know if Source Safe was originally DOS based, UNIX based, or both but I do recall seeing the UNIX version of Visual Source Safe variant and it really sucked.VSS is a terrible product indeed.
My company still uses VSS 2005 and it has a 4GB repository size limit!
Increasing beyond 4GB causes repository corruption.
This is especially frustrating because business types have access to it and seem to like to use VSS like a USB hard drive to back up their important documents, home pictures, and music.
I think the Windows admins have to take the thing down weekly just to repair the corruption.It's absolutely terrible.
Anything, even CVS or SVN, would be light years ahead of VSS.
I'm just glad I'm not a developer forced to work on it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085506</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085356</id>
	<title>Is this really even newsworthy at all?</title>
	<author>petrus4</author>
	<datestamp>1258117920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Microsoft realise (or at least make it look like they do) that working with Linux, rather than against it, is better for business.  Film at 11.</p><p>If you have a brain, you're already using Emacs as an IDE.  Yes, I know that statement will get refuted by the GUI hordes; the same enlightened thinkers who actually believe that C++ and XML are Good Things, and who are afflicted with that logical fallacy known as an <i>appeal to modernity</i> ("that crap is so 1970s!") where UNIX in general is concerned.  That's why I said, "If you have a brain."</p><p>As for version control, I'm not sure, (my CVS on Sourceforge is good enough for me when I have need of such) but from what little I've read, it seems that SVN is what the cool kids are using these days.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft realise ( or at least make it look like they do ) that working with Linux , rather than against it , is better for business .
Film at 11.If you have a brain , you 're already using Emacs as an IDE .
Yes , I know that statement will get refuted by the GUI hordes ; the same enlightened thinkers who actually believe that C + + and XML are Good Things , and who are afflicted with that logical fallacy known as an appeal to modernity ( " that crap is so 1970s !
" ) where UNIX in general is concerned .
That 's why I said , " If you have a brain .
" As for version control , I 'm not sure , ( my CVS on Sourceforge is good enough for me when I have need of such ) but from what little I 've read , it seems that SVN is what the cool kids are using these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft realise (or at least make it look like they do) that working with Linux, rather than against it, is better for business.
Film at 11.If you have a brain, you're already using Emacs as an IDE.
Yes, I know that statement will get refuted by the GUI hordes; the same enlightened thinkers who actually believe that C++ and XML are Good Things, and who are afflicted with that logical fallacy known as an appeal to modernity ("that crap is so 1970s!
") where UNIX in general is concerned.
That's why I said, "If you have a brain.
"As for version control, I'm not sure, (my CVS on Sourceforge is good enough for me when I have need of such) but from what little I've read, it seems that SVN is what the cool kids are using these days.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085180</id>
	<title>Re:Well ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258115280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>not quite the same.. they're just buying their way in...</p><p>\_\_\_</p><p>btw.. if you want diffmerge (freebie from sourcegear), get it now before microsoft has a chance to screw it up or put 'er up on the shelf next to Me and Bob.</p><p>http://sourcegear.com/diffmerge/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>not quite the same.. they 're just buying their way in... \ _ \ _ \ _btw.. if you want diffmerge ( freebie from sourcegear ) , get it now before microsoft has a chance to screw it up or put 'er up on the shelf next to Me and Bob.http : //sourcegear.com/diffmerge/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>not quite the same.. they're just buying their way in...\_\_\_btw.. if you want diffmerge (freebie from sourcegear), get it now before microsoft has a chance to screw it up or put 'er up on the shelf next to Me and Bob.http://sourcegear.com/diffmerge/</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084572</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085012</id>
	<title>Re:Would you buy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258112760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The question to anyone considering buying a Unix from MS is</p></div><p>You're too late - for the best part of a decade the most popular commercial Unix was Xenix, made by wait for it, Microsoft.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The question to anyone considering buying a Unix from MS isYou 're too late - for the best part of a decade the most popular commercial Unix was Xenix , made by wait for it , Microsoft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The question to anyone considering buying a Unix from MS isYou're too late - for the best part of a decade the most popular commercial Unix was Xenix, made by wait for it, Microsoft.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30091278</id>
	<title>Re:Fully integrated Mono on Linux with Eclipse?</title>
	<author>Vahokif</author>
	<datestamp>1258104120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>MonoDevelop?</htmltext>
<tokenext>MonoDevelop ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MonoDevelop?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30083852</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085602</id>
	<title>Re:Would you buy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258120560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, that depends on whether or not you like sloppy seconds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , that depends on whether or not you like sloppy seconds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, that depends on whether or not you like sloppy seconds.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30083858</id>
	<title>If that ain't a PHB name, I don't know what is</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1258051740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>nuf sed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>nuf sed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nuf sed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085924</id>
	<title>Re:Believe it when I see it...restart my 7 year cl</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258123380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>While certainly they spread FUD, I'd say most of their marketing is hype.
Personally, I don't go for either the FUD or the hype.  Is their hype OK
with you, or is it just that it doesn't bother you as much as the FUD?</htmltext>
<tokenext>While certainly they spread FUD , I 'd say most of their marketing is hype .
Personally , I do n't go for either the FUD or the hype .
Is their hype OK with you , or is it just that it does n't bother you as much as the FUD ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While certainly they spread FUD, I'd say most of their marketing is hype.
Personally, I don't go for either the FUD or the hype.
Is their hype OK
with you, or is it just that it doesn't bother you as much as the FUD?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30083848</id>
	<title>Logic</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258051680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How can Microsoft control Open Source? Flood the gates with software to get a foot in the door. They (and google) both have the manpower to really take over what the "standard" open source operating system is. Having control over the masses from the ground up is crucial to success. Just ask.... Microsoft.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How can Microsoft control Open Source ?
Flood the gates with software to get a foot in the door .
They ( and google ) both have the manpower to really take over what the " standard " open source operating system is .
Having control over the masses from the ground up is crucial to success .
Just ask.... Microsoft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How can Microsoft control Open Source?
Flood the gates with software to get a foot in the door.
They (and google) both have the manpower to really take over what the "standard" open source operating system is.
Having control over the masses from the ground up is crucial to success.
Just ask.... Microsoft.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30086346</id>
	<title>Re:Believe it when I see it...restart my 7 year cl</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258125780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Basing my purchase decisions on their actions ONLY and not their marketing FUD, is the only way I can be sure not to ever be vendor locked-in ever again.</p></div><p>So, what you're really saying is that just that you're content making terrible business decisions and, as such should never be put in charge of IT.</p><p>Good luck achieving success in The Real World[TM].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Basing my purchase decisions on their actions ONLY and not their marketing FUD , is the only way I can be sure not to ever be vendor locked-in ever again.So , what you 're really saying is that just that you 're content making terrible business decisions and , as such should never be put in charge of IT.Good luck achieving success in The Real World [ TM ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basing my purchase decisions on their actions ONLY and not their marketing FUD, is the only way I can be sure not to ever be vendor locked-in ever again.So, what you're really saying is that just that you're content making terrible business decisions and, as such should never be put in charge of IT.Good luck achieving success in The Real World[TM].
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30086436</id>
	<title>Re:Believe it when I see it...restart my 7 year cl</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258126260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I can be sure not to ever be vendor locked-in ever again</p></div><p>God, you really are pathetic.  7 year clock?  Get a life, or a better excuse.  You want to know what FUD is?  It's this "vendor lock-in" bullshit.  You aren't locked into anything.  I've used Microsoft products along with Apple, Commodore, and many more I've forgotten.  I've never lost any data or been forced to purchase software in order to use my data.  Hardware?  Yes.  But software?  No, you have no excuse except your own laziness, stupidity, or bigotry.  No one believes your garbage except the people who have the same problems you do, and that's pretty sad.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can be sure not to ever be vendor locked-in ever againGod , you really are pathetic .
7 year clock ?
Get a life , or a better excuse .
You want to know what FUD is ?
It 's this " vendor lock-in " bullshit .
You are n't locked into anything .
I 've used Microsoft products along with Apple , Commodore , and many more I 've forgotten .
I 've never lost any data or been forced to purchase software in order to use my data .
Hardware ? Yes .
But software ?
No , you have no excuse except your own laziness , stupidity , or bigotry .
No one believes your garbage except the people who have the same problems you do , and that 's pretty sad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can be sure not to ever be vendor locked-in ever againGod, you really are pathetic.
7 year clock?
Get a life, or a better excuse.
You want to know what FUD is?
It's this "vendor lock-in" bullshit.
You aren't locked into anything.
I've used Microsoft products along with Apple, Commodore, and many more I've forgotten.
I've never lost any data or been forced to purchase software in order to use my data.
Hardware?  Yes.
But software?
No, you have no excuse except your own laziness, stupidity, or bigotry.
No one believes your garbage except the people who have the same problems you do, and that's pretty sad.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084632</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30086066</id>
	<title>Re:silly</title>
	<author>hansamurai</author>
	<datestamp>1258124280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If TFS is honestly the best enterprise solution out there, then we're all doomed.  I can't stand it and everyday I hear muttered (or yelled) around the office, "TFS sucks!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If TFS is honestly the best enterprise solution out there , then we 're all doomed .
I ca n't stand it and everyday I hear muttered ( or yelled ) around the office , " TFS sucks !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If TFS is honestly the best enterprise solution out there, then we're all doomed.
I can't stand it and everyday I hear muttered (or yelled) around the office, "TFS sucks!
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084704</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085534</id>
	<title>Re:Believe it when I see it...restart my 7 year cl</title>
	<author>impaledsunset</author>
	<datestamp>1258119840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While trusting Microsoft on several seemingly "non-evil" moves would be foolish, "resetting your clock" for everything you consider a "violation" isn't less foolish. See, even if Microsoft ever becomes FLOSS-friendly they won't just say "Hey, let's not hamper this FLOSS project, we're FLOSS-friendly company!" if they see benefit in doing it.</p><p>I'm sure that everybody (myself included) would consider Google FLOSS-friendly, and I'm certain they did enough "clock-reset"-worthy "violations".</p><p>Both kinds of attitudes are extreme.</p><p>Just look at their recent track record and consider how much you can trust them. And that's never "fully", nor "not at all". Currently they are much worse then many other players, but are slightly better than what they used to be (mostly because they can do less to hurt FLOSS right now, and they have no choice but to play a little more friendly).</p><p>Also, this story doesn't show that Microsoft are becoming trustworthy for FLOSS folks, you are the first post here mentioning such possibility. It shows that FLOSS is doing well, and won a small victory here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While trusting Microsoft on several seemingly " non-evil " moves would be foolish , " resetting your clock " for everything you consider a " violation " is n't less foolish .
See , even if Microsoft ever becomes FLOSS-friendly they wo n't just say " Hey , let 's not hamper this FLOSS project , we 're FLOSS-friendly company !
" if they see benefit in doing it.I 'm sure that everybody ( myself included ) would consider Google FLOSS-friendly , and I 'm certain they did enough " clock-reset " -worthy " violations " .Both kinds of attitudes are extreme.Just look at their recent track record and consider how much you can trust them .
And that 's never " fully " , nor " not at all " .
Currently they are much worse then many other players , but are slightly better than what they used to be ( mostly because they can do less to hurt FLOSS right now , and they have no choice but to play a little more friendly ) .Also , this story does n't show that Microsoft are becoming trustworthy for FLOSS folks , you are the first post here mentioning such possibility .
It shows that FLOSS is doing well , and won a small victory here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While trusting Microsoft on several seemingly "non-evil" moves would be foolish, "resetting your clock" for everything you consider a "violation" isn't less foolish.
See, even if Microsoft ever becomes FLOSS-friendly they won't just say "Hey, let's not hamper this FLOSS project, we're FLOSS-friendly company!
" if they see benefit in doing it.I'm sure that everybody (myself included) would consider Google FLOSS-friendly, and I'm certain they did enough "clock-reset"-worthy "violations".Both kinds of attitudes are extreme.Just look at their recent track record and consider how much you can trust them.
And that's never "fully", nor "not at all".
Currently they are much worse then many other players, but are slightly better than what they used to be (mostly because they can do less to hurt FLOSS right now, and they have no choice but to play a little more friendly).Also, this story doesn't show that Microsoft are becoming trustworthy for FLOSS folks, you are the first post here mentioning such possibility.
It shows that FLOSS is doing well, and won a small victory here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084632</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_13_0513208_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30091278
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_13_0513208_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085890
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_13_0513208_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30086362
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084720
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_13_0513208_32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30084920
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_13_0513208_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30086436
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</commentlist>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_13_0513208_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30086442
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</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_13_0513208_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085924
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_13_0513208_16</id>
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</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_13_0513208_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_13_0513208.30085374
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</thread>
<thread>
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