<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_10_222240</id>
	<title>$9 Million ATM Hacking Ring Indicted</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1257866820000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Trailrunner7 writes <i>"US and international prosecutors have <a href="http://threatpost.com/en\_us/blogs/us-takes-down-9-million-rbs-worldpay-hacking-ring-111009">indicted a criminal ring that they allege was responsible for an ATM scam</a> last November that <a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/09/02/07/1657259/Flash-Mob-Steals-9-Million-From-ATMs">stole about $9 million</a> from RBS WorldPay. The criminals cracked payroll debit cards and withdrew money from ATMs in hundreds of cities around the world. A federal grand jury in Atlanta has indicted eight men in connection with the scheme, including five Estonians, one Russian, one Moldovan, and one unidentified man. Prosecutors allege that the men 'used sophisticated hacking techniques' to defeat the company's encryption system. The scam involved an elaborate plan in which the attackers first bypassed the encryption on the debit cards, which RBS WorldPay issues to customers for employee payroll purposes. They then raised the limits on the accounts attached to the cards, then provided a network of 'cashers' with 44 counterfeit payroll debit cards, which were used to withdraw more than $9 million from more than 2,100 ATMs in at least 280 cities worldwide, including cities in the United States, Russia, Ukraine, Estonia, Italy, Japan and Canada. The $9 million loss occurred within a span of less than 12 hours; 130 different ATMs in 49 cities were hit within one 30-minute period."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Trailrunner7 writes " US and international prosecutors have indicted a criminal ring that they allege was responsible for an ATM scam last November that stole about $ 9 million from RBS WorldPay .
The criminals cracked payroll debit cards and withdrew money from ATMs in hundreds of cities around the world .
A federal grand jury in Atlanta has indicted eight men in connection with the scheme , including five Estonians , one Russian , one Moldovan , and one unidentified man .
Prosecutors allege that the men 'used sophisticated hacking techniques ' to defeat the company 's encryption system .
The scam involved an elaborate plan in which the attackers first bypassed the encryption on the debit cards , which RBS WorldPay issues to customers for employee payroll purposes .
They then raised the limits on the accounts attached to the cards , then provided a network of 'cashers ' with 44 counterfeit payroll debit cards , which were used to withdraw more than $ 9 million from more than 2,100 ATMs in at least 280 cities worldwide , including cities in the United States , Russia , Ukraine , Estonia , Italy , Japan and Canada .
The $ 9 million loss occurred within a span of less than 12 hours ; 130 different ATMs in 49 cities were hit within one 30-minute period .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Trailrunner7 writes "US and international prosecutors have indicted a criminal ring that they allege was responsible for an ATM scam last November that stole about $9 million from RBS WorldPay.
The criminals cracked payroll debit cards and withdrew money from ATMs in hundreds of cities around the world.
A federal grand jury in Atlanta has indicted eight men in connection with the scheme, including five Estonians, one Russian, one Moldovan, and one unidentified man.
Prosecutors allege that the men 'used sophisticated hacking techniques' to defeat the company's encryption system.
The scam involved an elaborate plan in which the attackers first bypassed the encryption on the debit cards, which RBS WorldPay issues to customers for employee payroll purposes.
They then raised the limits on the accounts attached to the cards, then provided a network of 'cashers' with 44 counterfeit payroll debit cards, which were used to withdraw more than $9 million from more than 2,100 ATMs in at least 280 cities worldwide, including cities in the United States, Russia, Ukraine, Estonia, Italy, Japan and Canada.
The $9 million loss occurred within a span of less than 12 hours; 130 different ATMs in 49 cities were hit within one 30-minute period.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30070842</id>
	<title>Re:??? What?</title>
	<author>lamapper</author>
	<datestamp>1258026300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>My son works for a company owned 7-11 that pays him this way. Each card has an account dedicated to it. Not sure what the benefit from the company perspective is. Probably some kickback on the percentage the card issuing company collects on purchase and maybe ATM fees.</p></div><p>The lovely "VCom" machines in most 7-11s, especially the company owned ones.  7-11 employees are allowed to use them for FREE, no fees.  As of 2007, 7-11 would direct deposit into your bank account, you would get a paper copy of your check and/or check stub statement.  With the VCom card, you could withdraw money, no limits, up to and including your entire paycheck if you wanted too.  Those VCom machines are convenient if you do not have a supermarket near you.  Most supermarkets (grocery stores) will allow you to get between $200 - $1000 at the register with your purchase if you have taken the time to fill out one of their cards.

</p><p>They are very convenient if you are in a town where you do not have a bank branch, as there is probably a 7-11 somewhere.  So you have access to one more ATM network.  Worth having in my opinion.

</p><p>My preferred financial institution (<i>they allow me to invest in stocks and bonds and are NOT just a bank</i>) will cover any and all debit related fees when you use other company ATM machines.  While I like that and its nice of them, I prefer to go to the grocery store when I need money as they do not charge a fee there.  And I usually need something from the store anyway, so its a win - win - win.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>My son works for a company owned 7-11 that pays him this way .
Each card has an account dedicated to it .
Not sure what the benefit from the company perspective is .
Probably some kickback on the percentage the card issuing company collects on purchase and maybe ATM fees.The lovely " VCom " machines in most 7-11s , especially the company owned ones .
7-11 employees are allowed to use them for FREE , no fees .
As of 2007 , 7-11 would direct deposit into your bank account , you would get a paper copy of your check and/or check stub statement .
With the VCom card , you could withdraw money , no limits , up to and including your entire paycheck if you wanted too .
Those VCom machines are convenient if you do not have a supermarket near you .
Most supermarkets ( grocery stores ) will allow you to get between $ 200 - $ 1000 at the register with your purchase if you have taken the time to fill out one of their cards .
They are very convenient if you are in a town where you do not have a bank branch , as there is probably a 7-11 somewhere .
So you have access to one more ATM network .
Worth having in my opinion .
My preferred financial institution ( they allow me to invest in stocks and bonds and are NOT just a bank ) will cover any and all debit related fees when you use other company ATM machines .
While I like that and its nice of them , I prefer to go to the grocery store when I need money as they do not charge a fee there .
And I usually need something from the store anyway , so its a win - win - win .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My son works for a company owned 7-11 that pays him this way.
Each card has an account dedicated to it.
Not sure what the benefit from the company perspective is.
Probably some kickback on the percentage the card issuing company collects on purchase and maybe ATM fees.The lovely "VCom" machines in most 7-11s, especially the company owned ones.
7-11 employees are allowed to use them for FREE, no fees.
As of 2007, 7-11 would direct deposit into your bank account, you would get a paper copy of your check and/or check stub statement.
With the VCom card, you could withdraw money, no limits, up to and including your entire paycheck if you wanted too.
Those VCom machines are convenient if you do not have a supermarket near you.
Most supermarkets (grocery stores) will allow you to get between $200 - $1000 at the register with your purchase if you have taken the time to fill out one of their cards.
They are very convenient if you are in a town where you do not have a bank branch, as there is probably a 7-11 somewhere.
So you have access to one more ATM network.
Worth having in my opinion.
My preferred financial institution (they allow me to invest in stocks and bonds and are NOT just a bank) will cover any and all debit related fees when you use other company ATM machines.
While I like that and its nice of them, I prefer to go to the grocery store when I need money as they do not charge a fee there.
And I usually need something from the store anyway, so its a win - win - win.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055902</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055880</id>
	<title>This was supposed to have over 12 months time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257871440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But the Moldovan put the decimal in the wrong place.  He always misses some mundane detail like this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But the Moldovan put the decimal in the wrong place .
He always misses some mundane detail like this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But the Moldovan put the decimal in the wrong place.
He always misses some mundane detail like this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056716</id>
	<title>Re:smarter criminals</title>
	<author>Bovius</author>
	<datestamp>1257879120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I saw this article, I imagined Dr. Evil holding his pinky finger up and saying "Nine meeeeellion dollars!". There's much more serious fraudulent activity going on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I saw this article , I imagined Dr. Evil holding his pinky finger up and saying " Nine meeeeellion dollars ! " .
There 's much more serious fraudulent activity going on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I saw this article, I imagined Dr. Evil holding his pinky finger up and saying "Nine meeeeellion dollars!".
There's much more serious fraudulent activity going on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056152</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055916</id>
	<title>Horrible Article</title>
	<author>carp3\_noct3m</author>
	<datestamp>1257871680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The original and much more informative article, written by someone that at least has basic understandings of technology at    wired     One of the keys to why this is so big can be found in the following... "The hack involved reverse-engineering PINs for payroll debit card accounts" and "Tsurikov conducted reconnaissance of the RBS network after Covelin provided him with information about vulnerabilities in the system. Pleshchuk and Covelin then worked on exploiting the vulnerabilities to obtain access on November 4. Pleschuk allegedly developed the method for reverse-engineering the encrypted PINs."        So what it boils down to is that usually something happens to a bank, and it is some stupid CIO or consultant that leaves unencrypted info on a laptop or something similarly stupid, while this seems to be a "legitimate" hack/crack.  This involves all the steps of classic vulnerability assesment a pro security consultant would do, but with blackhat intent, including passive recon, 0 days, etc.   It should be noted that in the Credit Card fraud underworld, the biggest problem is not getting cards info, including PIN's. The problem is called "cashing out".  Often internet currencies (e-gold, etc) and offshore gambling sites are used to launder money, but this is why the "cashiers" usually charge 50 points. They got caught because of how they got the money, and the real special thing here is that they targeted only a few high level payroll accounts. Making their indicment only on 16 counts. I highly doubt they would be expected to pay back every bit of it, and if they are smart they had a contigency plan, hide a million or two in a hole in the ground, and will only serve a handful of years in jail, but my entire last statement is pure speculation as I know very little about how the justice system works in regard to this stuff, barring to say that I have a friend who spent 5 years in prison for non-malicious haking of government computers, while the local young girl murderer gets 3 years....ahh i need to drink less, or maybe more, before posting to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.!</htmltext>
<tokenext>The original and much more informative article , written by someone that at least has basic understandings of technology at wired One of the keys to why this is so big can be found in the following... " The hack involved reverse-engineering PINs for payroll debit card accounts " and " Tsurikov conducted reconnaissance of the RBS network after Covelin provided him with information about vulnerabilities in the system .
Pleshchuk and Covelin then worked on exploiting the vulnerabilities to obtain access on November 4 .
Pleschuk allegedly developed the method for reverse-engineering the encrypted PINs .
" So what it boils down to is that usually something happens to a bank , and it is some stupid CIO or consultant that leaves unencrypted info on a laptop or something similarly stupid , while this seems to be a " legitimate " hack/crack .
This involves all the steps of classic vulnerability assesment a pro security consultant would do , but with blackhat intent , including passive recon , 0 days , etc .
It should be noted that in the Credit Card fraud underworld , the biggest problem is not getting cards info , including PIN 's .
The problem is called " cashing out " .
Often internet currencies ( e-gold , etc ) and offshore gambling sites are used to launder money , but this is why the " cashiers " usually charge 50 points .
They got caught because of how they got the money , and the real special thing here is that they targeted only a few high level payroll accounts .
Making their indicment only on 16 counts .
I highly doubt they would be expected to pay back every bit of it , and if they are smart they had a contigency plan , hide a million or two in a hole in the ground , and will only serve a handful of years in jail , but my entire last statement is pure speculation as I know very little about how the justice system works in regard to this stuff , barring to say that I have a friend who spent 5 years in prison for non-malicious haking of government computers , while the local young girl murderer gets 3 years....ahh i need to drink less , or maybe more , before posting to / .
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The original and much more informative article, written by someone that at least has basic understandings of technology at    wired     One of the keys to why this is so big can be found in the following... "The hack involved reverse-engineering PINs for payroll debit card accounts" and "Tsurikov conducted reconnaissance of the RBS network after Covelin provided him with information about vulnerabilities in the system.
Pleshchuk and Covelin then worked on exploiting the vulnerabilities to obtain access on November 4.
Pleschuk allegedly developed the method for reverse-engineering the encrypted PINs.
"        So what it boils down to is that usually something happens to a bank, and it is some stupid CIO or consultant that leaves unencrypted info on a laptop or something similarly stupid, while this seems to be a "legitimate" hack/crack.
This involves all the steps of classic vulnerability assesment a pro security consultant would do, but with blackhat intent, including passive recon, 0 days, etc.
It should be noted that in the Credit Card fraud underworld, the biggest problem is not getting cards info, including PIN's.
The problem is called "cashing out".
Often internet currencies (e-gold, etc) and offshore gambling sites are used to launder money, but this is why the "cashiers" usually charge 50 points.
They got caught because of how they got the money, and the real special thing here is that they targeted only a few high level payroll accounts.
Making their indicment only on 16 counts.
I highly doubt they would be expected to pay back every bit of it, and if they are smart they had a contigency plan, hide a million or two in a hole in the ground, and will only serve a handful of years in jail, but my entire last statement is pure speculation as I know very little about how the justice system works in regard to this stuff, barring to say that I have a friend who spent 5 years in prison for non-malicious haking of government computers, while the local young girl murderer gets 3 years....ahh i need to drink less, or maybe more, before posting to /.
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30058162</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop with finger print or retina recognition</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257075360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree</p><p>PCI Credit card companies security certifcations require you change your password every 40 days</p><p>Good luck changing your retina or finger print everyday.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agreePCI Credit card companies security certifcations require you change your password every 40 daysGood luck changing your retina or finger print everyday .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agreePCI Credit card companies security certifcations require you change your password every 40 daysGood luck changing your retina or finger print everyday.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055996</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055790</id>
	<title>crime</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257870840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Apparently crime DOES pay.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Apparently crime DOES pay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Apparently crime DOES pay.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30059578</id>
	<title>Fractions!</title>
	<author>FlopEJoe</author>
	<datestamp>1257088200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If only they had just taken the fractions of a cent on every transaction they would have gotten away with it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If only they had just taken the fractions of a cent on every transaction they would have gotten away with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If only they had just taken the fractions of a cent on every transaction they would have gotten away with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056572</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop with finger print or retina recognition</title>
	<author>Cylix</author>
	<datestamp>1257878040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know what world you live in, but biometric components are highly disposable.</p><p>Just last week we had a copy of an employees eye floating around. We quickly plugged that hole by confiscating the employee's left eye.</p><p>Every so often we get a real joker who thinks its funny to prove how he can bypass the thumb readers. Those guys stop smiling the moment we take that compromised thumb away.</p><p>Just another day in the security division of OCP.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know what world you live in , but biometric components are highly disposable.Just last week we had a copy of an employees eye floating around .
We quickly plugged that hole by confiscating the employee 's left eye.Every so often we get a real joker who thinks its funny to prove how he can bypass the thumb readers .
Those guys stop smiling the moment we take that compromised thumb away.Just another day in the security division of OCP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know what world you live in, but biometric components are highly disposable.Just last week we had a copy of an employees eye floating around.
We quickly plugged that hole by confiscating the employee's left eye.Every so often we get a real joker who thinks its funny to prove how he can bypass the thumb readers.
Those guys stop smiling the moment we take that compromised thumb away.Just another day in the security division of OCP.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055996</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056188</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop with finger print or retina recognition</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257874140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are on the wrong article, I believe you wanted to reply to this post:<br><a href="http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/11/10/2045258/Best-Tool-For-Remembering-Passwords" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/11/10/2045258/Best-Tool-For-Remembering-Passwords</a> [slashdot.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are on the wrong article , I believe you wanted to reply to this post : http : //ask.slashdot.org/story/09/11/10/2045258/Best-Tool-For-Remembering-Passwords [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are on the wrong article, I believe you wanted to reply to this post:http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/11/10/2045258/Best-Tool-For-Remembering-Passwords [slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055828</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056258</id>
	<title>Re:crime</title>
	<author>Sulphur</author>
	<datestamp>1257874920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mobster in restaurant:  "We're Crime and Crime doesn't Pay."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mobster in restaurant : " We 're Crime and Crime does n't Pay .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mobster in restaurant:  "We're Crime and Crime doesn't Pay.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055790</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056038</id>
	<title>hackerz</title>
	<author>kaoshin</author>
	<datestamp>1257872760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>and a person the prosecutors identified only as "Hacker3."</i>
<br>
Hacker 3, a three year old child, was already suspected by the RIAA of copywrite infringement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>and a person the prosecutors identified only as " Hacker3 .
" Hacker 3 , a three year old child , was already suspected by the RIAA of copywrite infringement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and a person the prosecutors identified only as "Hacker3.
"

Hacker 3, a three year old child, was already suspected by the RIAA of copywrite infringement.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055760</id>
	<title>??? What?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257870660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not sure I've heard of a payroll debit card?<p>
You mean some company doesn't either do direct deposit, or cut you a check?</p><p>
I don't think I'd like something not going to my checking account...do you have to pay bills and stuff out of this debit card account I'm guessing that the company owns?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not sure I 've heard of a payroll debit card ?
You mean some company does n't either do direct deposit , or cut you a check ?
I do n't think I 'd like something not going to my checking account...do you have to pay bills and stuff out of this debit card account I 'm guessing that the company owns ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not sure I've heard of a payroll debit card?
You mean some company doesn't either do direct deposit, or cut you a check?
I don't think I'd like something not going to my checking account...do you have to pay bills and stuff out of this debit card account I'm guessing that the company owns?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056478</id>
	<title>Re:Horrible Article</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257877200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"...if they are smart they had a contingency plan, hide a million or two in a hole in the ground, and will only serve a handful of years in jail..."</p></div><p>Let's assume high and say $2MN dollars is successfully hidden.  Let's say they get 5 years in jail.  There were 8 of them.  2MN/8 = $250,000.  $250,000/5 = $50,000.</p><p>Good job, guys!  You went to jail for 5 years for $50,000 per year, which is what a mid-level IT tech makes.  You also guaranteed yourselves a lifetime of being watched by government agencies the world over.</p><p>Now, I don't know how many people were just foot soldiers and how many were involved in the technical side of the hack, but say instead of ripping off a bank, you used your what seems to be considerable insight into security flaws to start a security firm and make a lot more money, legitimately.  Just not as exciting, I suppose.  Good grief, just informing RBS about this hack would have netted you a fat, LEGAL payday.  Or, you could have contacted their current security firm, told THEM about the hack, they pay you quietly under the table, then get to look like heroes when they show RBS what they found.  There were a lot of ways to use this to your advantage.</p><p>I work with a lot of former eastern bloc nationals, and it never ceases to amaze me how much 'ripping off the system' is ingrained into their mentalities.  Some of the world's best programming talent comes from that region, and the majority seem inclined to use it for nefarious purposes.</p><p>We had to fire what was probably the best technician our company ever had, a Bulgarian, because instead of using his abilities to improve our company's network, he used it to to hack the company firewall and phone switch, and sell Internet access and long distance to people.  He probably made a few thousand dollars, but lost a job that paid $72,000, which is a fortune in Bulgaria.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...if they are smart they had a contingency plan , hide a million or two in a hole in the ground , and will only serve a handful of years in jail... " Let 's assume high and say $ 2MN dollars is successfully hidden .
Let 's say they get 5 years in jail .
There were 8 of them .
2MN/8 = $ 250,000 .
$ 250,000/5 = $ 50,000.Good job , guys !
You went to jail for 5 years for $ 50,000 per year , which is what a mid-level IT tech makes .
You also guaranteed yourselves a lifetime of being watched by government agencies the world over.Now , I do n't know how many people were just foot soldiers and how many were involved in the technical side of the hack , but say instead of ripping off a bank , you used your what seems to be considerable insight into security flaws to start a security firm and make a lot more money , legitimately .
Just not as exciting , I suppose .
Good grief , just informing RBS about this hack would have netted you a fat , LEGAL payday .
Or , you could have contacted their current security firm , told THEM about the hack , they pay you quietly under the table , then get to look like heroes when they show RBS what they found .
There were a lot of ways to use this to your advantage.I work with a lot of former eastern bloc nationals , and it never ceases to amaze me how much 'ripping off the system ' is ingrained into their mentalities .
Some of the world 's best programming talent comes from that region , and the majority seem inclined to use it for nefarious purposes.We had to fire what was probably the best technician our company ever had , a Bulgarian , because instead of using his abilities to improve our company 's network , he used it to to hack the company firewall and phone switch , and sell Internet access and long distance to people .
He probably made a few thousand dollars , but lost a job that paid $ 72,000 , which is a fortune in Bulgaria .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...if they are smart they had a contingency plan, hide a million or two in a hole in the ground, and will only serve a handful of years in jail..."Let's assume high and say $2MN dollars is successfully hidden.
Let's say they get 5 years in jail.
There were 8 of them.
2MN/8 = $250,000.
$250,000/5 = $50,000.Good job, guys!
You went to jail for 5 years for $50,000 per year, which is what a mid-level IT tech makes.
You also guaranteed yourselves a lifetime of being watched by government agencies the world over.Now, I don't know how many people were just foot soldiers and how many were involved in the technical side of the hack, but say instead of ripping off a bank, you used your what seems to be considerable insight into security flaws to start a security firm and make a lot more money, legitimately.
Just not as exciting, I suppose.
Good grief, just informing RBS about this hack would have netted you a fat, LEGAL payday.
Or, you could have contacted their current security firm, told THEM about the hack, they pay you quietly under the table, then get to look like heroes when they show RBS what they found.
There were a lot of ways to use this to your advantage.I work with a lot of former eastern bloc nationals, and it never ceases to amaze me how much 'ripping off the system' is ingrained into their mentalities.
Some of the world's best programming talent comes from that region, and the majority seem inclined to use it for nefarious purposes.We had to fire what was probably the best technician our company ever had, a Bulgarian, because instead of using his abilities to improve our company's network, he used it to to hack the company firewall and phone switch, and sell Internet access and long distance to people.
He probably made a few thousand dollars, but lost a job that paid $72,000, which is a fortune in Bulgaria.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055916</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056004</id>
	<title>"used sophisticated hacking techniques"</title>
	<author>countertrolling</author>
	<datestamp>1257872280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Want some coke?</p><p>Um, okay..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Want some coke ? Um , okay. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Want some coke?Um, okay..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056504</id>
	<title>Re:smarter criminals</title>
	<author>bradbury</author>
	<datestamp>1257877500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Plus you have the added fact that the prisons are generally outside of Russia/former Soviet Union -- and there is quite a bit of difference between going to prison in the former S.U. and more modern civilized countries.  Financial criminals most probably view imprisonment in current environments as a paid vacation.  Hardly a deterrent, perhaps even an incentive, to commit non-violent crimes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Plus you have the added fact that the prisons are generally outside of Russia/former Soviet Union -- and there is quite a bit of difference between going to prison in the former S.U .
and more modern civilized countries .
Financial criminals most probably view imprisonment in current environments as a paid vacation .
Hardly a deterrent , perhaps even an incentive , to commit non-violent crimes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Plus you have the added fact that the prisons are generally outside of Russia/former Soviet Union -- and there is quite a bit of difference between going to prison in the former S.U.
and more modern civilized countries.
Financial criminals most probably view imprisonment in current environments as a paid vacation.
Hardly a deterrent, perhaps even an incentive, to commit non-violent crimes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056152</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30057026</id>
	<title>Bring a dufflebag</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257882420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Considering the $9 million was taken from 2,100 ATMs, that's over $4,200 per transaction...  Most ATMs only have 20's to dispense, so that would be a pretty big pile of cash to carry out of the store/bank/gas station.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Considering the $ 9 million was taken from 2,100 ATMs , that 's over $ 4,200 per transaction... Most ATMs only have 20 's to dispense , so that would be a pretty big pile of cash to carry out of the store/bank/gas station .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Considering the $9 million was taken from 2,100 ATMs, that's over $4,200 per transaction...  Most ATMs only have 20's to dispense, so that would be a pretty big pile of cash to carry out of the store/bank/gas station.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056318</id>
	<title>Amazing</title>
	<author>Fotograf</author>
	<datestamp>1257875460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>i am always amazed when ring like that is discovered. It must be some incredible especially when it is worldwide coordinated. Makes you wonder that in real world there are doch few cops like you see in cinemas.</htmltext>
<tokenext>i am always amazed when ring like that is discovered .
It must be some incredible especially when it is worldwide coordinated .
Makes you wonder that in real world there are doch few cops like you see in cinemas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i am always amazed when ring like that is discovered.
It must be some incredible especially when it is worldwide coordinated.
Makes you wonder that in real world there are doch few cops like you see in cinemas.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055912</id>
	<title>plus 4, Tr0ll)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257871620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Preferrab;ly with a8 it a break, if We'll be able to quarreled on</htmltext>
<tokenext>Preferrab ; ly with a8 it a break , if We 'll be able to quarreled on</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Preferrab;ly with a8 it a break, if We'll be able to quarreled on</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30060144</id>
	<title>Re:"Caught" them.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257090720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or maybe... that is what they want you to think.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or maybe... that is what they want you to think .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or maybe... that is what they want you to think.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055862</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056152</id>
	<title>smarter criminals</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257873660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bank Robber:  thousands of dollars stolen, but they go to a maximum security prison<br>ATM fraud ring:  millions of dollars stolen, but they go to a medium security prison<br>Ponzi scheme:  billions of dollars stolen, but they go to a minimum security prison.<br>Bankers:  trillions of dollars stolen, and they're given more by the government with a bonus on top</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bank Robber : thousands of dollars stolen , but they go to a maximum security prisonATM fraud ring : millions of dollars stolen , but they go to a medium security prisonPonzi scheme : billions of dollars stolen , but they go to a minimum security prison.Bankers : trillions of dollars stolen , and they 're given more by the government with a bonus on top</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bank Robber:  thousands of dollars stolen, but they go to a maximum security prisonATM fraud ring:  millions of dollars stolen, but they go to a medium security prisonPonzi scheme:  billions of dollars stolen, but they go to a minimum security prison.Bankers:  trillions of dollars stolen, and they're given more by the government with a bonus on top</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30059728</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop with finger print or retina recognition</title>
	<author>harl</author>
	<datestamp>1257088800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What happens when you need to change your password?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What happens when you need to change your password ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What happens when you need to change your password?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055828</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30065872</id>
	<title>Why would you HACK?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257071340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Loans are harder to find than ever before in America. Even small cash boosts for last minute emergencies, holiday shopping, kids, classes, bills and others.  The family still deserves a great holiday season even though the economy is slow.

The SAFEST and FASTEST way is 60 MINUTE PAYDAY!

They get you up to $1500 wired right into your account! It took me less than an hour, although everyone is a little different. You should check it out rather than going through a drawn out credit approval. Plus, it's a \%100 Secured Site. What are you waiting for...?

www.GetRecessionFree.com</htmltext>
<tokenext>Loans are harder to find than ever before in America .
Even small cash boosts for last minute emergencies , holiday shopping , kids , classes , bills and others .
The family still deserves a great holiday season even though the economy is slow .
The SAFEST and FASTEST way is 60 MINUTE PAYDAY !
They get you up to $ 1500 wired right into your account !
It took me less than an hour , although everyone is a little different .
You should check it out rather than going through a drawn out credit approval .
Plus , it 's a \ % 100 Secured Site .
What are you waiting for... ?
www.GetRecessionFree.com</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Loans are harder to find than ever before in America.
Even small cash boosts for last minute emergencies, holiday shopping, kids, classes, bills and others.
The family still deserves a great holiday season even though the economy is slow.
The SAFEST and FASTEST way is 60 MINUTE PAYDAY!
They get you up to $1500 wired right into your account!
It took me less than an hour, although everyone is a little different.
You should check it out rather than going through a drawn out credit approval.
Plus, it's a \%100 Secured Site.
What are you waiting for...?
www.GetRecessionFree.com</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056480</id>
	<title>Re:hackerz</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257877200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And the $9 million makes only a little drop in the ocean on that charge!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And the $ 9 million makes only a little drop in the ocean on that charge !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the $9 million makes only a little drop in the ocean on that charge!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056038</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30059878</id>
	<title>Whats wrong with this picture</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257089400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;The $9 million loss occurred within a span of less than 12 hours; 130 different ATMs in 49 cities were hit within one 30-minute period<br>This is where being a programmer, it makes sense that it is physically impossible to have that many cards to 1 account used in that many cities, so after the first 4 or 5 like this, you would think you stop the transactions from going on, unless the crime was committed on a realtime schedule where everybody was synched to do the withdrawals all at the exact time (almost to the second)<br>If this was the case then cuddos to the criminals for now giving the idea to the banks to put all transactions in a queue.</p><p>Then again this is the police nabbing the crooks, the banks didnt bother spending their own money to catch the bad guys,<br>lets use tax payer money for our shortfalls. I guess you could say this was a nicely planned crime, but how did they get caught?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; The $ 9 million loss occurred within a span of less than 12 hours ; 130 different ATMs in 49 cities were hit within one 30-minute periodThis is where being a programmer , it makes sense that it is physically impossible to have that many cards to 1 account used in that many cities , so after the first 4 or 5 like this , you would think you stop the transactions from going on , unless the crime was committed on a realtime schedule where everybody was synched to do the withdrawals all at the exact time ( almost to the second ) If this was the case then cuddos to the criminals for now giving the idea to the banks to put all transactions in a queue.Then again this is the police nabbing the crooks , the banks didnt bother spending their own money to catch the bad guys,lets use tax payer money for our shortfalls .
I guess you could say this was a nicely planned crime , but how did they get caught ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;The $9 million loss occurred within a span of less than 12 hours; 130 different ATMs in 49 cities were hit within one 30-minute periodThis is where being a programmer, it makes sense that it is physically impossible to have that many cards to 1 account used in that many cities, so after the first 4 or 5 like this, you would think you stop the transactions from going on, unless the crime was committed on a realtime schedule where everybody was synched to do the withdrawals all at the exact time (almost to the second)If this was the case then cuddos to the criminals for now giving the idea to the banks to put all transactions in a queue.Then again this is the police nabbing the crooks, the banks didnt bother spending their own money to catch the bad guys,lets use tax payer money for our shortfalls.
I guess you could say this was a nicely planned crime, but how did they get caught?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30057016</id>
	<title>T2 Judgement Day</title>
	<author>BrunoB</author>
	<datestamp>1257882300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>easy money!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>easy money !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>easy money!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055902</id>
	<title>Re:??? What?</title>
	<author>AF\_Cheddar\_Head</author>
	<datestamp>1257871560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lots of companies that have a highly fluid employee population use these payroll debit cards.</p><p>My son works for a company owned 7-11 that pays him this way. Each card has an account dedicated to it. Not sure what the benefit from the company perspective is. Probably some kickback on the percentage the card issuing company collects on purchase and maybe ATM fees.</p><p>These cards are also probably a handy to pay illegal aliens who can't get bank accounts (just speculating).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lots of companies that have a highly fluid employee population use these payroll debit cards.My son works for a company owned 7-11 that pays him this way .
Each card has an account dedicated to it .
Not sure what the benefit from the company perspective is .
Probably some kickback on the percentage the card issuing company collects on purchase and maybe ATM fees.These cards are also probably a handy to pay illegal aliens who ca n't get bank accounts ( just speculating ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lots of companies that have a highly fluid employee population use these payroll debit cards.My son works for a company owned 7-11 that pays him this way.
Each card has an account dedicated to it.
Not sure what the benefit from the company perspective is.
Probably some kickback on the percentage the card issuing company collects on purchase and maybe ATM fees.These cards are also probably a handy to pay illegal aliens who can't get bank accounts (just speculating).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055828</id>
	<title>Laptop with finger print or retina recognition</title>
	<author>Phoe6</author>
	<datestamp>1257871140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you are worried that your laptop containing sensitive data might get stolen and thief would there by get the passwords stored in your firefox browser, then here is my suggestion.<br>Use the finger print or retina recognition so that the laptop operates only when it recognizes you.  These are becoming standard these days with IBM T400 series having finger print recognition and Dell Inspiron 15 series having retina recognition.<br>If you are worried that there are so many passwords to maintain,  then yes, I am worried about that too. Open IDs are coming up for help, but there are not there yet.</p><p>I, whenever possible use OpenID. then I store my passwords in firefox sxipper (with not all the values default, like I wont store my expiry date of the card, but would have input card number and password) and I dont use finger print recognition as I did not feel the need for it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are worried that your laptop containing sensitive data might get stolen and thief would there by get the passwords stored in your firefox browser , then here is my suggestion.Use the finger print or retina recognition so that the laptop operates only when it recognizes you .
These are becoming standard these days with IBM T400 series having finger print recognition and Dell Inspiron 15 series having retina recognition.If you are worried that there are so many passwords to maintain , then yes , I am worried about that too .
Open IDs are coming up for help , but there are not there yet.I , whenever possible use OpenID .
then I store my passwords in firefox sxipper ( with not all the values default , like I wont store my expiry date of the card , but would have input card number and password ) and I dont use finger print recognition as I did not feel the need for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are worried that your laptop containing sensitive data might get stolen and thief would there by get the passwords stored in your firefox browser, then here is my suggestion.Use the finger print or retina recognition so that the laptop operates only when it recognizes you.
These are becoming standard these days with IBM T400 series having finger print recognition and Dell Inspiron 15 series having retina recognition.If you are worried that there are so many passwords to maintain,  then yes, I am worried about that too.
Open IDs are coming up for help, but there are not there yet.I, whenever possible use OpenID.
then I store my passwords in firefox sxipper (with not all the values default, like I wont store my expiry date of the card, but would have input card number and password) and I dont use finger print recognition as I did not feel the need for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055732</id>
	<title>Proper monitoring</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257870540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just earlier, we heard about a hole in Bing cash-back program and many people rightfully stated that not enough care is taken when developing and more importantly, designing secure systems.</p><p>This is one more case that proves them right. Bright hackers usually pick the easiest target. Due to the hit and run nature of the theft, I believe that proper real-time monitoring of the system could have prevented most of the attack. Maybe half an hour or less instead of 12 hours time span before it would have been stopped.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just earlier , we heard about a hole in Bing cash-back program and many people rightfully stated that not enough care is taken when developing and more importantly , designing secure systems.This is one more case that proves them right .
Bright hackers usually pick the easiest target .
Due to the hit and run nature of the theft , I believe that proper real-time monitoring of the system could have prevented most of the attack .
Maybe half an hour or less instead of 12 hours time span before it would have been stopped .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just earlier, we heard about a hole in Bing cash-back program and many people rightfully stated that not enough care is taken when developing and more importantly, designing secure systems.This is one more case that proves them right.
Bright hackers usually pick the easiest target.
Due to the hit and run nature of the theft, I believe that proper real-time monitoring of the system could have prevented most of the attack.
Maybe half an hour or less instead of 12 hours time span before it would have been stopped.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056064</id>
	<title>Re:Horrible Article</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257872940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055916</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055862</id>
	<title>"Caught" them.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257871380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, this is how I see it.</p><p>First of all, alleged is an understatement.  How they would link bogus accounts, addresses and phone numbers to these 9 people I think would be very hard to do.  (i.e. impossible.)</p><p>Secondly, really?  The most advanced criminal ring in the world?  If so, how did they get caught if they are that good?  I would be more inclined to believe that they are amateurs.</p><p>Why would I think that?</p><p>1) Well, first of all, the government cannot look like a putz in public, which is strictly an image problem.  So best to dress up the criminals to be world class.</p><p>2) #1 reenforces number two, which is, they have NO CHOICE but to capture SOMEONE.   The public cannot know that the electronic banking system is so easy to steal money, without direct authorization of course from Congress or the Federal Reserve.  (Who by the way, make laws that are illegal (Constitutionally), so they can steal your money legally.)</p><p>Loss of confidence in the electronic banking system simply cannot be permitted.</p><p>3) Finally as in all fascist states where business and government are basically the same, crimes of this fashion are not considered illegal, they are considered a threat to power.</p><p>So keep in mind if you do steal money from the crooks themselves, be aware they may imprison someone who is innocent just because they can't catch you.</p><p>Which means you might want to pick a different target.</p><p>FYI.</p><p>-Hackus</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , this is how I see it.First of all , alleged is an understatement .
How they would link bogus accounts , addresses and phone numbers to these 9 people I think would be very hard to do .
( i.e. impossible .
) Secondly , really ?
The most advanced criminal ring in the world ?
If so , how did they get caught if they are that good ?
I would be more inclined to believe that they are amateurs.Why would I think that ? 1 ) Well , first of all , the government can not look like a putz in public , which is strictly an image problem .
So best to dress up the criminals to be world class.2 ) # 1 reenforces number two , which is , they have NO CHOICE but to capture SOMEONE .
The public can not know that the electronic banking system is so easy to steal money , without direct authorization of course from Congress or the Federal Reserve .
( Who by the way , make laws that are illegal ( Constitutionally ) , so they can steal your money legally .
) Loss of confidence in the electronic banking system simply can not be permitted.3 ) Finally as in all fascist states where business and government are basically the same , crimes of this fashion are not considered illegal , they are considered a threat to power.So keep in mind if you do steal money from the crooks themselves , be aware they may imprison someone who is innocent just because they ca n't catch you.Which means you might want to pick a different target.FYI.-Hackus</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, this is how I see it.First of all, alleged is an understatement.
How they would link bogus accounts, addresses and phone numbers to these 9 people I think would be very hard to do.
(i.e. impossible.
)Secondly, really?
The most advanced criminal ring in the world?
If so, how did they get caught if they are that good?
I would be more inclined to believe that they are amateurs.Why would I think that?1) Well, first of all, the government cannot look like a putz in public, which is strictly an image problem.
So best to dress up the criminals to be world class.2) #1 reenforces number two, which is, they have NO CHOICE but to capture SOMEONE.
The public cannot know that the electronic banking system is so easy to steal money, without direct authorization of course from Congress or the Federal Reserve.
(Who by the way, make laws that are illegal (Constitutionally), so they can steal your money legally.
)Loss of confidence in the electronic banking system simply cannot be permitted.3) Finally as in all fascist states where business and government are basically the same, crimes of this fashion are not considered illegal, they are considered a threat to power.So keep in mind if you do steal money from the crooks themselves, be aware they may imprison someone who is innocent just because they can't catch you.Which means you might want to pick a different target.FYI.-Hackus</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30058332</id>
	<title>frost pi5t!?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257077520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Problem; A 2few</htmltext>
<tokenext>Problem ; A 2few</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Problem; A 2few</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055924</id>
	<title>Re:??? What?</title>
	<author>interkin3tic</author>
	<datestamp>1257871740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You mean some company doesn't either do direct deposit, or cut you a check?</p></div><p>Yes.  Mark of a company that hates hates HATES its employees.  After undergrad I was working at gamestop when they decided to go this route.  For some reason, they were incapable of processing a direct deposit for me, so checks were fine.  Then these cards came.  They give your paycheck to a different company.  Said company gives it to you.  The fine print in the information pamphlet they handed out: one free transaction a month.  After that, $2 fee for using the debit card for anything.</p><p>They undoubtedly made a killing from many high school kids on that one.  And gamestop no longer had to print and distribute paychecks, saving the company untold hundreds of dollars a month.  Since that was one of the least annoying things gamestop did to it's employees, morale probably wasn't a factor.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean some company does n't either do direct deposit , or cut you a check ? Yes .
Mark of a company that hates hates HATES its employees .
After undergrad I was working at gamestop when they decided to go this route .
For some reason , they were incapable of processing a direct deposit for me , so checks were fine .
Then these cards came .
They give your paycheck to a different company .
Said company gives it to you .
The fine print in the information pamphlet they handed out : one free transaction a month .
After that , $ 2 fee for using the debit card for anything.They undoubtedly made a killing from many high school kids on that one .
And gamestop no longer had to print and distribute paychecks , saving the company untold hundreds of dollars a month .
Since that was one of the least annoying things gamestop did to it 's employees , morale probably was n't a factor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean some company doesn't either do direct deposit, or cut you a check?Yes.
Mark of a company that hates hates HATES its employees.
After undergrad I was working at gamestop when they decided to go this route.
For some reason, they were incapable of processing a direct deposit for me, so checks were fine.
Then these cards came.
They give your paycheck to a different company.
Said company gives it to you.
The fine print in the information pamphlet they handed out: one free transaction a month.
After that, $2 fee for using the debit card for anything.They undoubtedly made a killing from many high school kids on that one.
And gamestop no longer had to print and distribute paychecks, saving the company untold hundreds of dollars a month.
Since that was one of the least annoying things gamestop did to it's employees, morale probably wasn't a factor.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055760</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30074330</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop with finger print or retina recognition</title>
	<author>DarthVain</author>
	<datestamp>1258048320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LOL. Ya I love when people get all hot and bothered about this type of technology, thinking it is all high tech and infallible. My favorite example of this was people spoofing "facial recognition" biometric software and sensors..... with a printed picture held up for the camera. LOL!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LOL .
Ya I love when people get all hot and bothered about this type of technology , thinking it is all high tech and infallible .
My favorite example of this was people spoofing " facial recognition " biometric software and sensors..... with a printed picture held up for the camera .
LOL !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LOL.
Ya I love when people get all hot and bothered about this type of technology, thinking it is all high tech and infallible.
My favorite example of this was people spoofing "facial recognition" biometric software and sensors..... with a printed picture held up for the camera.
LOL!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055996</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30060944</id>
	<title>Re:Did Glenn Beck steal 9 million dollars?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257094140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think that an idiot blow-hard crybaby like Glenn Beck would be capable of staging or participating in something so elaborate, but it *is* telling that he hasn't denied his involvement either. I know that a lot of Americans must feel that this is suspicious, and I do too. It's just the way I feel, and I think that Glenn owes it to his supporters to prove that he wasn't involved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think that an idiot blow-hard crybaby like Glenn Beck would be capable of staging or participating in something so elaborate , but it * is * telling that he has n't denied his involvement either .
I know that a lot of Americans must feel that this is suspicious , and I do too .
It 's just the way I feel , and I think that Glenn owes it to his supporters to prove that he was n't involved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think that an idiot blow-hard crybaby like Glenn Beck would be capable of staging or participating in something so elaborate, but it *is* telling that he hasn't denied his involvement either.
I know that a lot of Americans must feel that this is suspicious, and I do too.
It's just the way I feel, and I think that Glenn owes it to his supporters to prove that he wasn't involved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055744</id>
	<title>More of the same male-chauvinist shit</title>
	<author>For a Free Internet</author>
	<datestamp>1257870600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a feminist, I am outraged and appalled that the money stolen from these ATMs will be used to perpetuate the patriarchal oppression of all my oppressed sistas. Why is it that AT"M" machines are not specially designed to accomodate breastfeeding and other liberatory activities for womyn???? I think I know why: they were designed for rich white men. well FUCK ZZYOU ALL THEN!!!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a feminist , I am outraged and appalled that the money stolen from these ATMs will be used to perpetuate the patriarchal oppression of all my oppressed sistas .
Why is it that AT " M " machines are not specially designed to accomodate breastfeeding and other liberatory activities for womyn ? ? ? ?
I think I know why : they were designed for rich white men .
well FUCK ZZYOU ALL THEN ! ! ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a feminist, I am outraged and appalled that the money stolen from these ATMs will be used to perpetuate the patriarchal oppression of all my oppressed sistas.
Why is it that AT"M" machines are not specially designed to accomodate breastfeeding and other liberatory activities for womyn????
I think I know why: they were designed for rich white men.
well FUCK ZZYOU ALL THEN!!!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30059398</id>
	<title>Wow!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257087420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This sounds like a LOT of effort! I'd be willing to bet that if they put that much effort and thought into a legal enterprise they likely would have made 10 times as much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This sounds like a LOT of effort !
I 'd be willing to bet that if they put that much effort and thought into a legal enterprise they likely would have made 10 times as much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This sounds like a LOT of effort!
I'd be willing to bet that if they put that much effort and thought into a legal enterprise they likely would have made 10 times as much.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30061982</id>
	<title>Re:Bring a dufflebag</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257098220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Europe, in large cities you can get 200 Euro bills from an ATM, that would make it pretty manageable.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Europe , in large cities you can get 200 Euro bills from an ATM , that would make it pretty manageable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Europe, in large cities you can get 200 Euro bills from an ATM, that would make it pretty manageable.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30057026</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30084082</id>
	<title>Re:crime</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258054440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Obviously crime pays, or there'd be no crime."</p><p>-G. Gordon Liddy</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Obviously crime pays , or there 'd be no crime. " -G .
Gordon Liddy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Obviously crime pays, or there'd be no crime."-G.
Gordon Liddy</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055790</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055996</id>
	<title>Re:Laptop with finger print or retina recognition</title>
	<author>BountyX</author>
	<datestamp>1257872220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Biometric security is a horrible idea. Not only can you trick a retina scanner with a photograph and easily lift a finger print, but it is also non-disposable. There are much simpler and effective solutions to protecting sensitive information, like TrueCrypt. I bet most fingerprint readers and retina scanners on consumer electronics have manufacturer backdoors.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Biometric security is a horrible idea .
Not only can you trick a retina scanner with a photograph and easily lift a finger print , but it is also non-disposable .
There are much simpler and effective solutions to protecting sensitive information , like TrueCrypt .
I bet most fingerprint readers and retina scanners on consumer electronics have manufacturer backdoors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Biometric security is a horrible idea.
Not only can you trick a retina scanner with a photograph and easily lift a finger print, but it is also non-disposable.
There are much simpler and effective solutions to protecting sensitive information, like TrueCrypt.
I bet most fingerprint readers and retina scanners on consumer electronics have manufacturer backdoors.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055828</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30059342</id>
	<title>Re:Proper monitoring</title>
	<author>jujuchef</author>
	<datestamp>1257087060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"I believe that proper real-time monitoring of the system could have prevented most of the attack..."
<br> <br>
As someone who has worked in the Card Fraud industry, I can assure you that it is a requirement for every card processor to use real time monitoring software for the prevention of fraud.  Visa/Mastercard/etc demand it if you want their logo on the card.  The amount of money prevented from fraudulent activity over the past 10 years has dropped very, very significantly. $9 mill on this would be a drop in the bucket in the 90s for some banks.  Interestingly this is something that can be worked in to financial institution's budgets as a type of expense/liability.
<br> <br>
Here's the problem with realtime monitoring in its current breadth and depth.  It can only process and monitor suspect transaction where either the card issuer (the bank of the card user) or acquirer (the bank of the place making the transaction).  issuer approvals happen in near-realtime.  They have to, otherwise we'd all be waiting at a checkout for hours/days to get approval on the payment.  Where banks can fall short, is they are all very much to themselves with their data.  Rightly so, this also really, really slows up the ability to share data.  Factor in each various country's data protection laws, and this is simply unattainable for some (the UK for example, does not share data just because it'd be nice to do so).
<br> <br>
On top of that, there is a bit of a schizm as to whether neural networks or rule-based (human-created manual rules for detection) are the 'best' approach to catch and prevent fraud.
<br> <br>
A more recent push, for PCI-DSS enforces encryption of certain data, and to verify that it's done.  So I ask you the question, is it the fraud monitoring here, or the security failure and weak encryption allowing this group to legitimize the transactions?  It goes back to your original statement that secure design and implementation are the solution.. I'd like to add one-time passwords on to that list.
<br> <br>
Lastly, for 'proper' realtime monitoring is a bit of a throw away comment. Take the amount of credit card transaction a day (let's say 3 million) and 1\% of those are fradulant (how do we do this properly again?) which means we have to find 30,000 transactions that could cost us money.  For 50 people at say, $40,000 a year to find 30,000 fradulent transactions a day would cost say... $2 million annually.  So if they caught 'every' fraudulent transaction, then that is a $1 million saving.  But realistically, is 50 people enough?  how about 500? Now lets make this operation 24 hours, plus office space, equipment, etcetera.  At the end of it all, there has to be a line where money spent preventing fraud has a return on its investment (within reason).</htmltext>
<tokenext>" I believe that proper real-time monitoring of the system could have prevented most of the attack... " As someone who has worked in the Card Fraud industry , I can assure you that it is a requirement for every card processor to use real time monitoring software for the prevention of fraud .
Visa/Mastercard/etc demand it if you want their logo on the card .
The amount of money prevented from fraudulent activity over the past 10 years has dropped very , very significantly .
$ 9 mill on this would be a drop in the bucket in the 90s for some banks .
Interestingly this is something that can be worked in to financial institution 's budgets as a type of expense/liability .
Here 's the problem with realtime monitoring in its current breadth and depth .
It can only process and monitor suspect transaction where either the card issuer ( the bank of the card user ) or acquirer ( the bank of the place making the transaction ) .
issuer approvals happen in near-realtime .
They have to , otherwise we 'd all be waiting at a checkout for hours/days to get approval on the payment .
Where banks can fall short , is they are all very much to themselves with their data .
Rightly so , this also really , really slows up the ability to share data .
Factor in each various country 's data protection laws , and this is simply unattainable for some ( the UK for example , does not share data just because it 'd be nice to do so ) .
On top of that , there is a bit of a schizm as to whether neural networks or rule-based ( human-created manual rules for detection ) are the 'best ' approach to catch and prevent fraud .
A more recent push , for PCI-DSS enforces encryption of certain data , and to verify that it 's done .
So I ask you the question , is it the fraud monitoring here , or the security failure and weak encryption allowing this group to legitimize the transactions ?
It goes back to your original statement that secure design and implementation are the solution.. I 'd like to add one-time passwords on to that list .
Lastly , for 'proper ' realtime monitoring is a bit of a throw away comment .
Take the amount of credit card transaction a day ( let 's say 3 million ) and 1 \ % of those are fradulant ( how do we do this properly again ?
) which means we have to find 30,000 transactions that could cost us money .
For 50 people at say , $ 40,000 a year to find 30,000 fradulent transactions a day would cost say... $ 2 million annually .
So if they caught 'every ' fraudulent transaction , then that is a $ 1 million saving .
But realistically , is 50 people enough ?
how about 500 ?
Now lets make this operation 24 hours , plus office space , equipment , etcetera .
At the end of it all , there has to be a line where money spent preventing fraud has a return on its investment ( within reason ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I believe that proper real-time monitoring of the system could have prevented most of the attack..."
 
As someone who has worked in the Card Fraud industry, I can assure you that it is a requirement for every card processor to use real time monitoring software for the prevention of fraud.
Visa/Mastercard/etc demand it if you want their logo on the card.
The amount of money prevented from fraudulent activity over the past 10 years has dropped very, very significantly.
$9 mill on this would be a drop in the bucket in the 90s for some banks.
Interestingly this is something that can be worked in to financial institution's budgets as a type of expense/liability.
Here's the problem with realtime monitoring in its current breadth and depth.
It can only process and monitor suspect transaction where either the card issuer (the bank of the card user) or acquirer (the bank of the place making the transaction).
issuer approvals happen in near-realtime.
They have to, otherwise we'd all be waiting at a checkout for hours/days to get approval on the payment.
Where banks can fall short, is they are all very much to themselves with their data.
Rightly so, this also really, really slows up the ability to share data.
Factor in each various country's data protection laws, and this is simply unattainable for some (the UK for example, does not share data just because it'd be nice to do so).
On top of that, there is a bit of a schizm as to whether neural networks or rule-based (human-created manual rules for detection) are the 'best' approach to catch and prevent fraud.
A more recent push, for PCI-DSS enforces encryption of certain data, and to verify that it's done.
So I ask you the question, is it the fraud monitoring here, or the security failure and weak encryption allowing this group to legitimize the transactions?
It goes back to your original statement that secure design and implementation are the solution.. I'd like to add one-time passwords on to that list.
Lastly, for 'proper' realtime monitoring is a bit of a throw away comment.
Take the amount of credit card transaction a day (let's say 3 million) and 1\% of those are fradulant (how do we do this properly again?
) which means we have to find 30,000 transactions that could cost us money.
For 50 people at say, $40,000 a year to find 30,000 fradulent transactions a day would cost say... $2 million annually.
So if they caught 'every' fraudulent transaction, then that is a $1 million saving.
But realistically, is 50 people enough?
how about 500?
Now lets make this operation 24 hours, plus office space, equipment, etcetera.
At the end of it all, there has to be a line where money spent preventing fraud has a return on its investment (within reason).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055732</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30059692</id>
	<title>Re:smarter criminals</title>
	<author>Epi-man</author>
	<datestamp>1257088680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Bank Robber: thousands of dollars stolen, but they go to a maximum security prison</p></div></blockquote><p>You forgot...(most likely) has a criminal record, claimed to or had a gun and held it to someone's head threatening to kill them, very high probability they will make an attempt to escape or harm other people....</p><blockquote><div><p>ATM fraud ring: millions of dollars stolen, but they go to a medium security prison</p></div></blockquote><p>Hurt approximately zero people, threatened approximately zero people with harm, but organized others to help with their deeds</p><blockquote><div><p>Ponzi scheme: billions of dollars stolen, but they go to a minimum security prison.</p></div></blockquote><p>Bilked lots of people out of money, but once contained does not represent a threat to escape nor anyone's safety</p><blockquote><div><p>Bankers: trillions of dollars stolen, and they're given more by the government with a bonus on top</p></div></blockquote><p>And yet you don't think the people in government who stole the money from us and gave it to the bankers should be in prison???</p><p>To me, you obviously don't get it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Bank Robber : thousands of dollars stolen , but they go to a maximum security prisonYou forgot... ( most likely ) has a criminal record , claimed to or had a gun and held it to someone 's head threatening to kill them , very high probability they will make an attempt to escape or harm other people....ATM fraud ring : millions of dollars stolen , but they go to a medium security prisonHurt approximately zero people , threatened approximately zero people with harm , but organized others to help with their deedsPonzi scheme : billions of dollars stolen , but they go to a minimum security prison.Bilked lots of people out of money , but once contained does not represent a threat to escape nor anyone 's safetyBankers : trillions of dollars stolen , and they 're given more by the government with a bonus on topAnd yet you do n't think the people in government who stole the money from us and gave it to the bankers should be in prison ? ?
? To me , you obviously do n't get it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bank Robber: thousands of dollars stolen, but they go to a maximum security prisonYou forgot...(most likely) has a criminal record, claimed to or had a gun and held it to someone's head threatening to kill them, very high probability they will make an attempt to escape or harm other people....ATM fraud ring: millions of dollars stolen, but they go to a medium security prisonHurt approximately zero people, threatened approximately zero people with harm, but organized others to help with their deedsPonzi scheme: billions of dollars stolen, but they go to a minimum security prison.Bilked lots of people out of money, but once contained does not represent a threat to escape nor anyone's safetyBankers: trillions of dollars stolen, and they're given more by the government with a bonus on topAnd yet you don't think the people in government who stole the money from us and gave it to the bankers should be in prison??
?To me, you obviously don't get it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056152</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056388</id>
	<title>Sophisticated Hacking Techniques</title>
	<author>samexner</author>
	<datestamp>1257876240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>used sophisticated hacking techniques</p></div><p>They just opened the machines.
Shhh! But don't tell anyone.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>used sophisticated hacking techniquesThey just opened the machines .
Shhh ! But do n't tell anyone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>used sophisticated hacking techniquesThey just opened the machines.
Shhh! But don't tell anyone.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055788</id>
	<title>Oh no not again!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257870840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When will banks start upgrading their security?</p><p>Me think its the same syndicate <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/national/five-face-court-over-melbourne-atm-scam-20090326-9bzu.html" title="theage.com.au" rel="nofollow">as these guys.</a> [theage.com.au] </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When will banks start upgrading their security ? Me think its the same syndicate as these guys .
[ theage.com.au ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When will banks start upgrading their security?Me think its the same syndicate as these guys.
[theage.com.au] </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30058956</id>
	<title>Hong Kong busts?</title>
	<author>GarWarner</author>
	<datestamp>1257083940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does anyone have more information on the Hong Kong and Netherlands roles in this case?  I blogged a summary of charges, including some of the SQL Statements the baddies were using to monitor, change limits on, and monitor "their" cards from the indictment here:  <a href="http://garwarner.blogspot.com/2009/11/9-million-world-wide-bank-robbery.html" title="blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">CyberCrime &amp; Doing Time</a> [blogspot.com].  The part I'm trying to find more data on comes from this bit from the FBI Press Release:

Cooperation between the Hong Kong Police Force and the FBI also led to a parallel investigation, resulting in the identification and arrest of two individuals who were responsible for withdrawing RBS WorldPay funds from ATM terminals in Hong Kong. The Netherlands Police Agency National Crime Squad High Tech Crime Unit and the Netherlands National Prosecutor&rsquo;s Office provided key assistance in the investigation.

Does anyone know what the Netherlands Police Agency contributed to the case?  Does anyone have information on possible related arrests in Hong Kong?

Thanks!

GarWarner</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does anyone have more information on the Hong Kong and Netherlands roles in this case ?
I blogged a summary of charges , including some of the SQL Statements the baddies were using to monitor , change limits on , and monitor " their " cards from the indictment here : CyberCrime &amp; Doing Time [ blogspot.com ] .
The part I 'm trying to find more data on comes from this bit from the FBI Press Release : Cooperation between the Hong Kong Police Force and the FBI also led to a parallel investigation , resulting in the identification and arrest of two individuals who were responsible for withdrawing RBS WorldPay funds from ATM terminals in Hong Kong .
The Netherlands Police Agency National Crime Squad High Tech Crime Unit and the Netherlands National Prosecutor    s Office provided key assistance in the investigation .
Does anyone know what the Netherlands Police Agency contributed to the case ?
Does anyone have information on possible related arrests in Hong Kong ?
Thanks ! GarWarner</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does anyone have more information on the Hong Kong and Netherlands roles in this case?
I blogged a summary of charges, including some of the SQL Statements the baddies were using to monitor, change limits on, and monitor "their" cards from the indictment here:  CyberCrime &amp; Doing Time [blogspot.com].
The part I'm trying to find more data on comes from this bit from the FBI Press Release:

Cooperation between the Hong Kong Police Force and the FBI also led to a parallel investigation, resulting in the identification and arrest of two individuals who were responsible for withdrawing RBS WorldPay funds from ATM terminals in Hong Kong.
The Netherlands Police Agency National Crime Squad High Tech Crime Unit and the Netherlands National Prosecutor’s Office provided key assistance in the investigation.
Does anyone know what the Netherlands Police Agency contributed to the case?
Does anyone have information on possible related arrests in Hong Kong?
Thanks!

GarWarner</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056536</id>
	<title>Nice Try</title>
	<author>Mr. Lwanga</author>
	<datestamp>1257877740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One of these characters is already under indictment for similar shenanigans <a href="http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/11/rbs-worldpay" title="wired.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/11/rbs-worldpay</a> [wired.com] , so a good bet is that the Feds have a rat, sorry, a cooperative concerned citizen, big deal. The real story, not these unfortunate Estonian freelance security consultants, but that if RBS was stupid enough to get nailed like this, who else is this sloppy with their security? A decent amount of work and planning went into this ( except for the exit strategy), and no one noticed all of the poking and prodding that was going on in RBS' network. Banking regulators have their own IT security compliance audit, that is a lot more serious than PCI certification, so did RBS have a few holes that got covered up for the audit, then put back in production later? We may never know.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One of these characters is already under indictment for similar shenanigans http : //www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/11/rbs-worldpay [ wired.com ] , so a good bet is that the Feds have a rat , sorry , a cooperative concerned citizen , big deal .
The real story , not these unfortunate Estonian freelance security consultants , but that if RBS was stupid enough to get nailed like this , who else is this sloppy with their security ?
A decent amount of work and planning went into this ( except for the exit strategy ) , and no one noticed all of the poking and prodding that was going on in RBS ' network .
Banking regulators have their own IT security compliance audit , that is a lot more serious than PCI certification , so did RBS have a few holes that got covered up for the audit , then put back in production later ?
We may never know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of these characters is already under indictment for similar shenanigans http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/11/rbs-worldpay [wired.com] , so a good bet is that the Feds have a rat, sorry, a cooperative concerned citizen, big deal.
The real story, not these unfortunate Estonian freelance security consultants, but that if RBS was stupid enough to get nailed like this, who else is this sloppy with their security?
A decent amount of work and planning went into this ( except for the exit strategy), and no one noticed all of the poking and prodding that was going on in RBS' network.
Banking regulators have their own IT security compliance audit, that is a lot more serious than PCI certification, so did RBS have a few holes that got covered up for the audit, then put back in production later?
We may never know.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30056690</id>
	<title>Re:Horrible Article</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257878940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Murders don't get just "3 years" so don't play the poor victim.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Murders do n't get just " 3 years " so do n't play the poor victim .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Murders don't get just "3 years" so don't play the poor victim.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055916</parent>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_10_222240.30055978</id>
	<title>Did Glenn Beck  steal 9 million dollars?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257872100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is he the unidentified man? Why does Glen Beck not deny his involvement?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is he the unidentified man ?
Why does Glen Beck not deny his involvement ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is he the unidentified man?
Why does Glen Beck not deny his involvement?</sentencetext>
</comment>
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