<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_09_1845250</id>
	<title>Oracle Outlines Plans for Sun Products, Casts Doubt on NetBeans</title>
	<author>ScuttleMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1257756240000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes to tell us that a recent FAQ released by Oracle outlines the plans for many of Sun's popular products like GlassFish, MySQL, and NetBeans.  Many are worried at some of the possible avenues the decisions outlined could lead to, <a href="http://www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-palns">especially with respect to NetBeans</a>.  <i>"What should have happened, Oracle should not have missed a beat and should have announced work on Oracle plugins for NetBeans and active Oracle support of NetBeans. This type of announcement would have brought a large and some-what skeptical NetBeans community much closer to Oracle. It would have been a big win for Oracle. NetBeans will continue to grow either way - but Oracle has missed a big chance to really change perceptions and at the same time move their tools to another level. What JDeveloper lacks is buzz, a wealth of community developed plugins, a wealth of support for other languages and a very, very large community.  And of course it does not offer a platform in the NetBeans and Eclipse sense of the word. This is a huge missed opportunity for Oracle."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes to tell us that a recent FAQ released by Oracle outlines the plans for many of Sun 's popular products like GlassFish , MySQL , and NetBeans .
Many are worried at some of the possible avenues the decisions outlined could lead to , especially with respect to NetBeans .
" What should have happened , Oracle should not have missed a beat and should have announced work on Oracle plugins for NetBeans and active Oracle support of NetBeans .
This type of announcement would have brought a large and some-what skeptical NetBeans community much closer to Oracle .
It would have been a big win for Oracle .
NetBeans will continue to grow either way - but Oracle has missed a big chance to really change perceptions and at the same time move their tools to another level .
What JDeveloper lacks is buzz , a wealth of community developed plugins , a wealth of support for other languages and a very , very large community .
And of course it does not offer a platform in the NetBeans and Eclipse sense of the word .
This is a huge missed opportunity for Oracle .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes to tell us that a recent FAQ released by Oracle outlines the plans for many of Sun's popular products like GlassFish, MySQL, and NetBeans.
Many are worried at some of the possible avenues the decisions outlined could lead to, especially with respect to NetBeans.
"What should have happened, Oracle should not have missed a beat and should have announced work on Oracle plugins for NetBeans and active Oracle support of NetBeans.
This type of announcement would have brought a large and some-what skeptical NetBeans community much closer to Oracle.
It would have been a big win for Oracle.
NetBeans will continue to grow either way - but Oracle has missed a big chance to really change perceptions and at the same time move their tools to another level.
What JDeveloper lacks is buzz, a wealth of community developed plugins, a wealth of support for other languages and a very, very large community.
And of course it does not offer a platform in the NetBeans and Eclipse sense of the word.
This is a huge missed opportunity for Oracle.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</id>
	<title>Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>mapnjd</author>
	<datestamp>1257760440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots, it has never caught up with Eclipse. It may have surpassed it temporarily for certain apps (think Grails support - but look at STS 2.2.0). It's also not as good as IntelliJ IDEA (previously, always non-free).</p><p>Yes, both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms, but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there? (The Nokia one on the web site is vapourware - yes it shows a real customer RAN - without their permission, I should add! - but it's never been a product delivered to customers). Real Eclipse RCP apps do exist (XMind, Lotus Smartsuite...). Realistically, they both over good RCP platforms (one pure Java, one SWT) but Oracle won't really care about that.</p><p>As for JDeveloper - well it's a typical Oracle product - if you're in an Oracle house, it's pretty good, but no, it's not got a large userbase or community supporting it.</p><p>Oracle should let Netbeans drift off into open source land. Perhaps it'll thrive? I don't know. JDeveloper's functionality should be ported to Eclipse (along with SQL Developer, while we're at it).</p><p>Oracle are great at giving you tools once you've signed up for the ride, and why not rebase your products on the best? Which in my opinion is Eclipse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots , it has never caught up with Eclipse .
It may have surpassed it temporarily for certain apps ( think Grails support - but look at STS 2.2.0 ) .
It 's also not as good as IntelliJ IDEA ( previously , always non-free ) .Yes , both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms , but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there ?
( The Nokia one on the web site is vapourware - yes it shows a real customer RAN - without their permission , I should add !
- but it 's never been a product delivered to customers ) .
Real Eclipse RCP apps do exist ( XMind , Lotus Smartsuite... ) .
Realistically , they both over good RCP platforms ( one pure Java , one SWT ) but Oracle wo n't really care about that.As for JDeveloper - well it 's a typical Oracle product - if you 're in an Oracle house , it 's pretty good , but no , it 's not got a large userbase or community supporting it.Oracle should let Netbeans drift off into open source land .
Perhaps it 'll thrive ?
I do n't know .
JDeveloper 's functionality should be ported to Eclipse ( along with SQL Developer , while we 're at it ) .Oracle are great at giving you tools once you 've signed up for the ride , and why not rebase your products on the best ?
Which in my opinion is Eclipse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots, it has never caught up with Eclipse.
It may have surpassed it temporarily for certain apps (think Grails support - but look at STS 2.2.0).
It's also not as good as IntelliJ IDEA (previously, always non-free).Yes, both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms, but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there?
(The Nokia one on the web site is vapourware - yes it shows a real customer RAN - without their permission, I should add!
- but it's never been a product delivered to customers).
Real Eclipse RCP apps do exist (XMind, Lotus Smartsuite...).
Realistically, they both over good RCP platforms (one pure Java, one SWT) but Oracle won't really care about that.As for JDeveloper - well it's a typical Oracle product - if you're in an Oracle house, it's pretty good, but no, it's not got a large userbase or community supporting it.Oracle should let Netbeans drift off into open source land.
Perhaps it'll thrive?
I don't know.
JDeveloper's functionality should be ported to Eclipse (along with SQL Developer, while we're at it).Oracle are great at giving you tools once you've signed up for the ride, and why not rebase your products on the best?
Which in my opinion is Eclipse.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30041684</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really.</title>
	<author>Max Littlemore</author>
	<datestamp>1257781320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, NetBeans is not used all that much. Eclipse is used a lot more in the real world where consultants get paid more if they spend longer doing basic project/environment setup and waiting for the UI to come back.</p><p>Of course for anyone who wants a quick and feature rich IDE, you can't go past newer versions of NetBeans. I am thankful that more recently I have been in a position to say "I am using NetBeans, even if all you idiots settled on Eclipse" and it has worked out quite well.</p><p>Of course, Eclipse will drop off in popularity, developers will look at critisism and improve it and in another 5 years Eclipse will be the better IDE with smaller market share.</p><p>JDeveloper should be dropped, IMO. It doesn't offer any real advantage over anything else out there, and suffers in comparison to NetBeans and Eclipse for most tasks. Oracle could be missing a great opportunity here...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , NetBeans is not used all that much .
Eclipse is used a lot more in the real world where consultants get paid more if they spend longer doing basic project/environment setup and waiting for the UI to come back.Of course for anyone who wants a quick and feature rich IDE , you ca n't go past newer versions of NetBeans .
I am thankful that more recently I have been in a position to say " I am using NetBeans , even if all you idiots settled on Eclipse " and it has worked out quite well.Of course , Eclipse will drop off in popularity , developers will look at critisism and improve it and in another 5 years Eclipse will be the better IDE with smaller market share.JDeveloper should be dropped , IMO .
It does n't offer any real advantage over anything else out there , and suffers in comparison to NetBeans and Eclipse for most tasks .
Oracle could be missing a great opportunity here.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, NetBeans is not used all that much.
Eclipse is used a lot more in the real world where consultants get paid more if they spend longer doing basic project/environment setup and waiting for the UI to come back.Of course for anyone who wants a quick and feature rich IDE, you can't go past newer versions of NetBeans.
I am thankful that more recently I have been in a position to say "I am using NetBeans, even if all you idiots settled on Eclipse" and it has worked out quite well.Of course, Eclipse will drop off in popularity, developers will look at critisism and improve it and in another 5 years Eclipse will be the better IDE with smaller market share.JDeveloper should be dropped, IMO.
It doesn't offer any real advantage over anything else out there, and suffers in comparison to NetBeans and Eclipse for most tasks.
Oracle could be missing a great opportunity here...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039576</id>
	<title>What are you talking about?</title>
	<author>jotaeleemeese</author>
	<datestamp>1257767280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you know what the high end Sparc machines can do?</p><p>I am sure that the terminology does not even exist in Intel-AMD processors, because they simply can't scale in the same way. You would have to look perhaps at IBM or HP.</p><p>Certainly an SPARC desktop will be soon a thing of the past, but in the high end arena SPARC can't be touched.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you know what the high end Sparc machines can do ? I am sure that the terminology does not even exist in Intel-AMD processors , because they simply ca n't scale in the same way .
You would have to look perhaps at IBM or HP.Certainly an SPARC desktop will be soon a thing of the past , but in the high end arena SPARC ca n't be touched .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you know what the high end Sparc machines can do?I am sure that the terminology does not even exist in Intel-AMD processors, because they simply can't scale in the same way.
You would have to look perhaps at IBM or HP.Certainly an SPARC desktop will be soon a thing of the past, but in the high end arena SPARC can't be touched.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038514</id>
	<title>What JDeveloper really misses..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257762420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>..is some effing stability. Try using it, it's the biggest POS in the history of excrement. It caches all sorts of things it shouldn't cache, requires frequent restarting and even requires manual deletion of forgotten files every once in a while. No one in their right mind would want to use this for anything. Ever.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>..is some effing stability .
Try using it , it 's the biggest POS in the history of excrement .
It caches all sorts of things it should n't cache , requires frequent restarting and even requires manual deletion of forgotten files every once in a while .
No one in their right mind would want to use this for anything .
Ever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>..is some effing stability.
Try using it, it's the biggest POS in the history of excrement.
It caches all sorts of things it shouldn't cache, requires frequent restarting and even requires manual deletion of forgotten files every once in a while.
No one in their right mind would want to use this for anything.
Ever.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30041714</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Max Littlemore</author>
	<datestamp>1257781620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>JDeveloper's functionality should be ported to Eclipse</p></div></blockquote><p>I'm sorry, I'm going to have to shoot you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>JDeveloper 's functionality should be ported to EclipseI 'm sorry , I 'm going to have to shoot you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>JDeveloper's functionality should be ported to EclipseI'm sorry, I'm going to have to shoot you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30043996</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>daem0n1x</author>
	<datestamp>1257855960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I used Eclipse for years, but gave it up because of the plugin mess and the horrible bugs in the JEE Tools. I gave Netbeans a chance, and now it's my IDE for Java.
</p><p>
JDeveloper, on the other hand, last time I used it it was a huge, bloated, slooooow, proprietary piece of shit.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used Eclipse for years , but gave it up because of the plugin mess and the horrible bugs in the JEE Tools .
I gave Netbeans a chance , and now it 's my IDE for Java .
JDeveloper , on the other hand , last time I used it it was a huge , bloated , slooooow , proprietary piece of shit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I used Eclipse for years, but gave it up because of the plugin mess and the horrible bugs in the JEE Tools.
I gave Netbeans a chance, and now it's my IDE for Java.
JDeveloper, on the other hand, last time I used it it was a huge, bloated, slooooow, proprietary piece of shit.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038062</id>
	<title>JDeveloper is great...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257760560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...if you want to interact with Oracle products. I tried really hard to use it, even using it as both a Java IDE and a PL/SQL IDE and, while yes, it does work, I found it too slow and clunky to just "bang out some code" when you need to write up a throwaway program really really fast.</p><p>But, like I said, if you want total interaction with your database or app server (assuming that app server is oc4j), then I suppose, if you have to use only a single tool, I guess, well, shrug, I guess it's better than nothing...I guess.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...if you want to interact with Oracle products .
I tried really hard to use it , even using it as both a Java IDE and a PL/SQL IDE and , while yes , it does work , I found it too slow and clunky to just " bang out some code " when you need to write up a throwaway program really really fast.But , like I said , if you want total interaction with your database or app server ( assuming that app server is oc4j ) , then I suppose , if you have to use only a single tool , I guess , well , shrug , I guess it 's better than nothing...I guess .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...if you want to interact with Oracle products.
I tried really hard to use it, even using it as both a Java IDE and a PL/SQL IDE and, while yes, it does work, I found it too slow and clunky to just "bang out some code" when you need to write up a throwaway program really really fast.But, like I said, if you want total interaction with your database or app server (assuming that app server is oc4j), then I suppose, if you have to use only a single tool, I guess, well, shrug, I guess it's better than nothing...I guess.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30040286</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really? I tried it, it's decent stuff</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257771060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've taken a peek @ it in my return to Academia this year to learn more "modern stuff" beyond<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET, which I have used in the workplace professionally, &amp; I went the "JAVA ROAD", to mainly "see how the other 1/2 lives" AND most importantly, to learn something NEW!</p><p>(Which makes it harder on me, by far in doing a "new language" &amp; one that STRONGLY reminds me of C++ which is probably HOW I am "surviving it" (lol, it's hard, but A+ in 1 class, &amp; C+/B- in other JAVA section (taking 2 @ once, not easy really, especially with no direct JAVA experience before on my part)), but it's worth doing because @ this point I actually LIKE Java (not for performance, but rather for the fact that "you write it once, you can run it anywhere" that it is largely about, alongside data protection in objects since it is "OOP"))</p><p>Anyhow/anyways:</p><p>Usually, in class? Well... we do projects &amp; labs programs using tools like JGrasp &amp;/or TextPad (which are PRIMITIVE by comparison to other dev environs of course, but, they do "DO THE JOB" of course) usually.</p><p>Now, some of the "younger folks" (who are OUTRIGHT AMAZING imo, because the young programmer of TODAY is a HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN THE GUYS WERE MY AGE TYPICALLY, when I got into this stuff 15++ yrs. ago - then again, they've also (a couple of them) been @ it for 15++ yrs. already too, starting from the age of 5-6 from what they have told me... amazing really, ah.. anyhow). Those same "young guys", who impress the hell out of me in class, have "turned me on" to NetBeans... &amp; know what?</p><p>I LIKE IT!</p><p>(It's as close to doing what I am used to, which was RAD tools like Borland Delphi, Borland C++ Builder, VB 3-6, &amp;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET in Visual Studio is why - not THAT "far apart" as far as learning to build GUI style apps in JAVA, vs. doing charactermode/consolemode/tty terminal type apps in JGrasp or TextPad only (man, that's like returning back to 1990 &amp; below imo, but, it is how the coursework is implemented, &amp; I am just a "rookie" in JAVA too, so I have to start w/ "the fundamentals" I suppose, anyhow!)</p><p>Anyhow - it'd be a shame to see what amounts to a pretty "well-polished tool" in NetBeans, imo @ least, just "fade out into the nothing" &amp; disappear... because though you guys may know better about JAVA &amp; what IDE's + tools are out there for it? I think NetBeans is pretty damned impressive, &amp; especially for a FREE PRODUCT!</p><p>APK</p><p>P.S.=&gt; It happens though (good things 'dying off'), this is life, after all... I'd just hate to see it happen! I've seen Eclipse, but I have not "put my hands on it &amp; used it", so it very well MAY be "all that" as those of you here who 'raved on it' seemed to give me that impression of, but... again, haven't used it myself, but I have used NetBeans &amp; it's really decent imo! apk</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've taken a peek @ it in my return to Academia this year to learn more " modern stuff " beyond .NET , which I have used in the workplace professionally , &amp; I went the " JAVA ROAD " , to mainly " see how the other 1/2 lives " AND most importantly , to learn something NEW !
( Which makes it harder on me , by far in doing a " new language " &amp; one that STRONGLY reminds me of C + + which is probably HOW I am " surviving it " ( lol , it 's hard , but A + in 1 class , &amp; C + /B- in other JAVA section ( taking 2 @ once , not easy really , especially with no direct JAVA experience before on my part ) ) , but it 's worth doing because @ this point I actually LIKE Java ( not for performance , but rather for the fact that " you write it once , you can run it anywhere " that it is largely about , alongside data protection in objects since it is " OOP " ) ) Anyhow/anyways : Usually , in class ?
Well... we do projects &amp; labs programs using tools like JGrasp &amp;/or TextPad ( which are PRIMITIVE by comparison to other dev environs of course , but , they do " DO THE JOB " of course ) usually.Now , some of the " younger folks " ( who are OUTRIGHT AMAZING imo , because the young programmer of TODAY is a HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN THE GUYS WERE MY AGE TYPICALLY , when I got into this stuff 15 + + yrs .
ago - then again , they 've also ( a couple of them ) been @ it for 15 + + yrs .
already too , starting from the age of 5-6 from what they have told me... amazing really , ah.. anyhow ) . Those same " young guys " , who impress the hell out of me in class , have " turned me on " to NetBeans... &amp; know what ? I LIKE IT !
( It 's as close to doing what I am used to , which was RAD tools like Borland Delphi , Borland C + + Builder , VB 3-6 , &amp; .NET in Visual Studio is why - not THAT " far apart " as far as learning to build GUI style apps in JAVA , vs. doing charactermode/consolemode/tty terminal type apps in JGrasp or TextPad only ( man , that 's like returning back to 1990 &amp; below imo , but , it is how the coursework is implemented , &amp; I am just a " rookie " in JAVA too , so I have to start w/ " the fundamentals " I suppose , anyhow !
) Anyhow - it 'd be a shame to see what amounts to a pretty " well-polished tool " in NetBeans , imo @ least , just " fade out into the nothing " &amp; disappear... because though you guys may know better about JAVA &amp; what IDE 's + tools are out there for it ?
I think NetBeans is pretty damned impressive , &amp; especially for a FREE PRODUCT ! APKP.S. = &gt; It happens though ( good things 'dying off ' ) , this is life , after all... I 'd just hate to see it happen !
I 've seen Eclipse , but I have not " put my hands on it &amp; used it " , so it very well MAY be " all that " as those of you here who 'raved on it ' seemed to give me that impression of , but... again , have n't used it myself , but I have used NetBeans &amp; it 's really decent imo !
apk</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've taken a peek @ it in my return to Academia this year to learn more "modern stuff" beyond .NET, which I have used in the workplace professionally, &amp; I went the "JAVA ROAD", to mainly "see how the other 1/2 lives" AND most importantly, to learn something NEW!
(Which makes it harder on me, by far in doing a "new language" &amp; one that STRONGLY reminds me of C++ which is probably HOW I am "surviving it" (lol, it's hard, but A+ in 1 class, &amp; C+/B- in other JAVA section (taking 2 @ once, not easy really, especially with no direct JAVA experience before on my part)), but it's worth doing because @ this point I actually LIKE Java (not for performance, but rather for the fact that "you write it once, you can run it anywhere" that it is largely about, alongside data protection in objects since it is "OOP"))Anyhow/anyways:Usually, in class?
Well... we do projects &amp; labs programs using tools like JGrasp &amp;/or TextPad (which are PRIMITIVE by comparison to other dev environs of course, but, they do "DO THE JOB" of course) usually.Now, some of the "younger folks" (who are OUTRIGHT AMAZING imo, because the young programmer of TODAY is a HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN THE GUYS WERE MY AGE TYPICALLY, when I got into this stuff 15++ yrs.
ago - then again, they've also (a couple of them) been @ it for 15++ yrs.
already too, starting from the age of 5-6 from what they have told me... amazing really, ah.. anyhow). Those same "young guys", who impress the hell out of me in class, have "turned me on" to NetBeans... &amp; know what?I LIKE IT!
(It's as close to doing what I am used to, which was RAD tools like Borland Delphi, Borland C++ Builder, VB 3-6, &amp; .NET in Visual Studio is why - not THAT "far apart" as far as learning to build GUI style apps in JAVA, vs. doing charactermode/consolemode/tty terminal type apps in JGrasp or TextPad only (man, that's like returning back to 1990 &amp; below imo, but, it is how the coursework is implemented, &amp; I am just a "rookie" in JAVA too, so I have to start w/ "the fundamentals" I suppose, anyhow!
)Anyhow - it'd be a shame to see what amounts to a pretty "well-polished tool" in NetBeans, imo @ least, just "fade out into the nothing" &amp; disappear... because though you guys may know better about JAVA &amp; what IDE's + tools are out there for it?
I think NetBeans is pretty damned impressive, &amp; especially for a FREE PRODUCT!APKP.S.=&gt; It happens though (good things 'dying off'), this is life, after all... I'd just hate to see it happen!
I've seen Eclipse, but I have not "put my hands on it &amp; used it", so it very well MAY be "all that" as those of you here who 'raved on it' seemed to give me that impression of, but... again, haven't used it myself, but I have used NetBeans &amp; it's really decent imo!
apk</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039630</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>blind biker</author>
	<datestamp>1257767580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like Netbeans because it's easy to use. Perhaps Eclipse is useful for super-uber-professional programmers, but I do think Netbeans is the IDE for the rest of us. I like how everything seems to be self-explained and intuitive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like Netbeans because it 's easy to use .
Perhaps Eclipse is useful for super-uber-professional programmers , but I do think Netbeans is the IDE for the rest of us .
I like how everything seems to be self-explained and intuitive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like Netbeans because it's easy to use.
Perhaps Eclipse is useful for super-uber-professional programmers, but I do think Netbeans is the IDE for the rest of us.
I like how everything seems to be self-explained and intuitive.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30041070</id>
	<title>Re:It's the database, stupid.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257775860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't forget about Firdbird.  A more open license than MySQL, easily embedded like Sqlite except with <em>way</em> better performance.</p><p>Actually, I haven't found any database that's as efficient as Firebird at b-tree indexing (it's the fastest I have seen at creating/dropping indexes and they take up very little space).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't forget about Firdbird .
A more open license than MySQL , easily embedded like Sqlite except with way better performance.Actually , I have n't found any database that 's as efficient as Firebird at b-tree indexing ( it 's the fastest I have seen at creating/dropping indexes and they take up very little space ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't forget about Firdbird.
A more open license than MySQL, easily embedded like Sqlite except with way better performance.Actually, I haven't found any database that's as efficient as Firebird at b-tree indexing (it's the fastest I have seen at creating/dropping indexes and they take up very little space).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039256</id>
	<title>Java Plugin?</title>
	<author>HRbnjR</author>
	<datestamp>1257765600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Oracle plans to not only broaden and accelerate its own investment in the Java platform, but also plans to increase the commitment to the community that helps make Java an ubiquitous, innovative platform unified around open standards.</p></div></blockquote><p>Does that mean Sun will now stop reneging on their promise to open source the new Java plugin? <a href="http://blogs.sun.com/darcy/entry/openjdk\_and\_the\_new\_plugin" title="sun.com">http://blogs.sun.com/darcy/entry/openjdk\_and\_the\_new\_plugin</a> [sun.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oracle plans to not only broaden and accelerate its own investment in the Java platform , but also plans to increase the commitment to the community that helps make Java an ubiquitous , innovative platform unified around open standards.Does that mean Sun will now stop reneging on their promise to open source the new Java plugin ?
http : //blogs.sun.com/darcy/entry/openjdk \ _and \ _the \ _new \ _plugin [ sun.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oracle plans to not only broaden and accelerate its own investment in the Java platform, but also plans to increase the commitment to the community that helps make Java an ubiquitous, innovative platform unified around open standards.Does that mean Sun will now stop reneging on their promise to open source the new Java plugin?
http://blogs.sun.com/darcy/entry/openjdk\_and\_the\_new\_plugin [sun.com]
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039032</id>
	<title>Either? Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257764580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>IMO both Netbeans and Eclipse are a waste of time. What is the point of an IDE that can't even get basic text editing UI right?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>IMO both Netbeans and Eclipse are a waste of time .
What is the point of an IDE that ca n't even get basic text editing UI right ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>IMO both Netbeans and Eclipse are a waste of time.
What is the point of an IDE that can't even get basic text editing UI right?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038792</id>
	<title>Am I the only one...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257763620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been using Netbeans since about version 5, exclusively over Eclipse. It is far simpler to set up, a hell of a lot less buggy, and handles remotely hosted projects far better, and blew away over Eclipse's web development plugins in a single version or so (from 5 to 6.5 it took over Eclipse's web plugins, some of which aren't free, and have been developed at for years and years), where as before it had nothing. Even larg-ish webapp projects can kill Eclipse if they aren't local, code completion and lookups lead to outright halts for up to minutes, where as Netbeans seems to happily index the remote files in the a background process and thereafter code completion is very snappy, it's depth of lookup is better than Eclipse as well.<br>Netbeans is far and away a better managed project than Eclipse, which gets more out of hand with every version, and it shows, it's far more polished. Also Netbeans runs faster, and looks nicer on any system I've put it on, despite being not SWT(which is an un-needed mess in itself) like Eclipse. I know it will never, ever, have the extensibility or community of Eclipse, but that's not the be all-end all of an IDE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been using Netbeans since about version 5 , exclusively over Eclipse .
It is far simpler to set up , a hell of a lot less buggy , and handles remotely hosted projects far better , and blew away over Eclipse 's web development plugins in a single version or so ( from 5 to 6.5 it took over Eclipse 's web plugins , some of which are n't free , and have been developed at for years and years ) , where as before it had nothing .
Even larg-ish webapp projects can kill Eclipse if they are n't local , code completion and lookups lead to outright halts for up to minutes , where as Netbeans seems to happily index the remote files in the a background process and thereafter code completion is very snappy , it 's depth of lookup is better than Eclipse as well.Netbeans is far and away a better managed project than Eclipse , which gets more out of hand with every version , and it shows , it 's far more polished .
Also Netbeans runs faster , and looks nicer on any system I 've put it on , despite being not SWT ( which is an un-needed mess in itself ) like Eclipse .
I know it will never , ever , have the extensibility or community of Eclipse , but that 's not the be all-end all of an IDE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been using Netbeans since about version 5, exclusively over Eclipse.
It is far simpler to set up, a hell of a lot less buggy, and handles remotely hosted projects far better, and blew away over Eclipse's web development plugins in a single version or so (from 5 to 6.5 it took over Eclipse's web plugins, some of which aren't free, and have been developed at for years and years), where as before it had nothing.
Even larg-ish webapp projects can kill Eclipse if they aren't local, code completion and lookups lead to outright halts for up to minutes, where as Netbeans seems to happily index the remote files in the a background process and thereafter code completion is very snappy, it's depth of lookup is better than Eclipse as well.Netbeans is far and away a better managed project than Eclipse, which gets more out of hand with every version, and it shows, it's far more polished.
Also Netbeans runs faster, and looks nicer on any system I've put it on, despite being not SWT(which is an un-needed mess in itself) like Eclipse.
I know it will never, ever, have the extensibility or community of Eclipse, but that's not the be all-end all of an IDE.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038286</id>
	<title>Consider the source.</title>
	<author>tomhudson</author>
	<datestamp>1257761580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>TFA is quoting Gartner.  When is the last time Gartner got something right?  It's full of weasel words. Lots of "If<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..."
</p><p>
<a href="http://www.oracle.com/ocom/groups/public/documents/webcontent/038563.pdf" title="oracle.com">Read what Oracle wrote</a> [oracle.com].  They're not abandoning NetBeans.
</p><blockquote><div><p> <b>What are Oracle's plans for NetBeans?</b>
</p><p>
Oracle has a strong track record of demonstrating commitment to choice for Java developers. As such, <b>NetBeans is expected to provide an additional open source option and complement to the two free tools Oracle already offers for enterprise Java development</b>: Oracle JDeveloper and Oracle Enterprise Pack for Eclipse. While Oracle JDeveloper remains Oracle's strategic development tool for the broad portfolio of Oracle Fusion Middleware products and for Oracle's next generation of enterprise applications, <b>developers will be able to use whichever free tool they are most comfortable with for pure Java and Java EE development: JDeveloper, Enterprise Pack for Eclipse, or NetBeans.</b></p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Fuck Gartner.  Fuck them in the heart.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>TFA is quoting Gartner .
When is the last time Gartner got something right ?
It 's full of weasel words .
Lots of " If ... " Read what Oracle wrote [ oracle.com ] .
They 're not abandoning NetBeans .
What are Oracle 's plans for NetBeans ?
Oracle has a strong track record of demonstrating commitment to choice for Java developers .
As such , NetBeans is expected to provide an additional open source option and complement to the two free tools Oracle already offers for enterprise Java development : Oracle JDeveloper and Oracle Enterprise Pack for Eclipse .
While Oracle JDeveloper remains Oracle 's strategic development tool for the broad portfolio of Oracle Fusion Middleware products and for Oracle 's next generation of enterprise applications , developers will be able to use whichever free tool they are most comfortable with for pure Java and Java EE development : JDeveloper , Enterprise Pack for Eclipse , or NetBeans .
Fuck Gartner .
Fuck them in the heart .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TFA is quoting Gartner.
When is the last time Gartner got something right?
It's full of weasel words.
Lots of "If ..."

Read what Oracle wrote [oracle.com].
They're not abandoning NetBeans.
What are Oracle's plans for NetBeans?
Oracle has a strong track record of demonstrating commitment to choice for Java developers.
As such, NetBeans is expected to provide an additional open source option and complement to the two free tools Oracle already offers for enterprise Java development: Oracle JDeveloper and Oracle Enterprise Pack for Eclipse.
While Oracle JDeveloper remains Oracle's strategic development tool for the broad portfolio of Oracle Fusion Middleware products and for Oracle's next generation of enterprise applications, developers will be able to use whichever free tool they are most comfortable with for pure Java and Java EE development: JDeveloper, Enterprise Pack for Eclipse, or NetBeans.
Fuck Gartner.
Fuck them in the heart.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30043292</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>xtracto</author>
	<datestamp>1257845580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have used both for some time (I saw Eclipse grow from the old versions when it crashed every 5 minutes).<br><br>Right now I am using mostly Netbeans as it is used in my current project. However, I personally like more Eclipse. For example, the availability of FatJar is a godsent. Also, NetBeans does not let you order packages in a hierarchical way (i think that changed in the last version) and UML support is better in Eclipse.<br><br>Both can do subversion, but I find it more difficult to set it up in Eclipse.<br><br>Oh, and for some reason, Netbeans does not differentiate between Javadoc and normal comments (FtLo God!)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have used both for some time ( I saw Eclipse grow from the old versions when it crashed every 5 minutes ) .Right now I am using mostly Netbeans as it is used in my current project .
However , I personally like more Eclipse .
For example , the availability of FatJar is a godsent .
Also , NetBeans does not let you order packages in a hierarchical way ( i think that changed in the last version ) and UML support is better in Eclipse.Both can do subversion , but I find it more difficult to set it up in Eclipse.Oh , and for some reason , Netbeans does not differentiate between Javadoc and normal comments ( FtLo God !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have used both for some time (I saw Eclipse grow from the old versions when it crashed every 5 minutes).Right now I am using mostly Netbeans as it is used in my current project.
However, I personally like more Eclipse.
For example, the availability of FatJar is a godsent.
Also, NetBeans does not let you order packages in a hierarchical way (i think that changed in the last version) and UML support is better in Eclipse.Both can do subversion, but I find it more difficult to set it up in Eclipse.Oh, and for some reason, Netbeans does not differentiate between Javadoc and normal comments (FtLo God!
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038164</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>jDeepbeep</author>
	<datestamp>1257761040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>and I've been on Eclipse since I started doing <b>real</b> projects.</p></div><p>And the dogma wars begin.  I would mod you flamebait if I had points left for the day.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>and I 've been on Eclipse since I started doing real projects.And the dogma wars begin .
I would mod you flamebait if I had points left for the day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and I've been on Eclipse since I started doing real projects.And the dogma wars begin.
I would mod you flamebait if I had points left for the day.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038104</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257760800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>for j2ee it is the best ide...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>for j2ee it is the best ide.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for j2ee it is the best ide...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30041602</id>
	<title>sell:shoes,handbags,T-shirt,Jeans,sunglass</title>
	<author>coolforsale2009</author>
	<datestamp>1257780600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In order to meet the Thanksgiving holiday, this site hereby release Thanksgiving gift, that is, gift, our web site is <a href="http://www.coolforsale.com/" title="coolforsale.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.coolforsale.com/</a> [coolforsale.com]  nike air max jordan shoes, coach,gucci,lv,dg,ed hardy handbags, Polo/Ed Hardy/Lacoste/Ca/A&amp;F<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,T-shirt welcome new and old customers come to order.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In order to meet the Thanksgiving holiday , this site hereby release Thanksgiving gift , that is , gift , our web site is http : //www.coolforsale.com/ [ coolforsale.com ] nike air max jordan shoes , coach,gucci,lv,dg,ed hardy handbags , Polo/Ed Hardy/Lacoste/Ca/A&amp;F ,T-shirt welcome new and old customers come to order .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In order to meet the Thanksgiving holiday, this site hereby release Thanksgiving gift, that is, gift, our web site is http://www.coolforsale.com/ [coolforsale.com]  nike air max jordan shoes, coach,gucci,lv,dg,ed hardy handbags, Polo/Ed Hardy/Lacoste/Ca/A&amp;F ,T-shirt welcome new and old customers come to order.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038570</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257762600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only developers I know who use NetBeans are homosexuals. Both of them.</p><p>I hear that you don't have to be gay to use Java, but it helps.</p><p>I'm just stating facts...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only developers I know who use NetBeans are homosexuals .
Both of them.I hear that you do n't have to be gay to use Java , but it helps.I 'm just stating facts.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only developers I know who use NetBeans are homosexuals.
Both of them.I hear that you don't have to be gay to use Java, but it helps.I'm just stating facts...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30042020</id>
	<title>Re:Oracle is a big Eclipse supporter too - OEPE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257784740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is dedicated - but JDeveloper is not Eclipse.<br>NetBeans support Java EE (5 &amp; 6), SOA, UML, etc<br>I am unaware that it supports ADF<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but then who uses ADF<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... only Oracle.<br>NetBeans goes beyond merely supporting Java EE - it also supports a bunch<br>of non-Java EE frameworks - like Hibernate, Spring, Struts, etc.<br>and of course there is a Visual Web (JSF) framework.<br>Lots more....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is dedicated - but JDeveloper is not Eclipse.NetBeans support Java EE ( 5 &amp; 6 ) , SOA , UML , etcI am unaware that it supports ADF ... but then who uses ADF ... only Oracle.NetBeans goes beyond merely supporting Java EE - it also supports a bunchof non-Java EE frameworks - like Hibernate , Spring , Struts , etc.and of course there is a Visual Web ( JSF ) framework.Lots more... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is dedicated - but JDeveloper is not Eclipse.NetBeans support Java EE (5 &amp; 6), SOA, UML, etcI am unaware that it supports ADF ... but then who uses ADF ... only Oracle.NetBeans goes beyond merely supporting Java EE - it also supports a bunchof non-Java EE frameworks - like Hibernate, Spring, Struts, etc.and of course there is a Visual Web (JSF) framework.Lots more....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038958</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038660</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>multi io</author>
	<datestamp>1257762960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Yes, both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms, but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there?</p></div><p>

Well, with Eclipse, the IDE is pretty good, but the RCP platform -- not so much. It's quite obvious that this thing was designed to write Eclipse (IDE) plugins. For writing standalone applications, the whole approach seems overengineered. OSGI doesn't buy you much in that context, and one doesn't want to turn every small standalone app into a kind of mini-Eclipse, with simple things like command shortcuts and editor selection synchronizations being handled by 5 plugins interacting in complex ways. And then the whole SWT/native-UI-toolkit thing is bound to bite you at some point, e.g. if you're trying to have a table control with varying row heights, for God's sake.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms , but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there ?
Well , with Eclipse , the IDE is pretty good , but the RCP platform -- not so much .
It 's quite obvious that this thing was designed to write Eclipse ( IDE ) plugins .
For writing standalone applications , the whole approach seems overengineered .
OSGI does n't buy you much in that context , and one does n't want to turn every small standalone app into a kind of mini-Eclipse , with simple things like command shortcuts and editor selection synchronizations being handled by 5 plugins interacting in complex ways .
And then the whole SWT/native-UI-toolkit thing is bound to bite you at some point , e.g .
if you 're trying to have a table control with varying row heights , for God 's sake .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms, but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there?
Well, with Eclipse, the IDE is pretty good, but the RCP platform -- not so much.
It's quite obvious that this thing was designed to write Eclipse (IDE) plugins.
For writing standalone applications, the whole approach seems overengineered.
OSGI doesn't buy you much in that context, and one doesn't want to turn every small standalone app into a kind of mini-Eclipse, with simple things like command shortcuts and editor selection synchronizations being handled by 5 plugins interacting in complex ways.
And then the whole SWT/native-UI-toolkit thing is bound to bite you at some point, e.g.
if you're trying to have a table control with varying row heights, for God's sake.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038052</id>
	<title>That's the power of open source</title>
	<author>iamacat</author>
	<datestamp>1257760560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If Oracle is not interested, other people/companies will carry on the development. In general Sun customers should be applauding the foresight of the company to make pretty much every peace of their hardware and software Open Source and compare their situation to that of Peoplesoft or Siebel customers. Even if everything Sun is killed off tomorrow, it would still be possible to manufacture Sparc-based servers running Solaris and with applications developed using Java and Netbeans.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If Oracle is not interested , other people/companies will carry on the development .
In general Sun customers should be applauding the foresight of the company to make pretty much every peace of their hardware and software Open Source and compare their situation to that of Peoplesoft or Siebel customers .
Even if everything Sun is killed off tomorrow , it would still be possible to manufacture Sparc-based servers running Solaris and with applications developed using Java and Netbeans .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Oracle is not interested, other people/companies will carry on the development.
In general Sun customers should be applauding the foresight of the company to make pretty much every peace of their hardware and software Open Source and compare their situation to that of Peoplesoft or Siebel customers.
Even if everything Sun is killed off tomorrow, it would still be possible to manufacture Sparc-based servers running Solaris and with applications developed using Java and Netbeans.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30047452</id>
	<title>Ohhh Nooo - Software Terrorism NOOOO</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257875880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is sad, I hope you all see this as a very negative move. As a Java developer and fan of the Sun set of java products, I am deeply sadden.</p><p>Sun and Netbeans were already going downhill after they stopped supporting great features such as IceFaces Visual Design integration, and development of woodstock. If you think this was bad, wait for Oracle to do what they do best. I feel even worse for some of the other products such as MySQL. This is Software Terrorism at its best. (I am sure many of you follow Oracle CPU updates for it's DB product, this will give you an indication for what's ahead)</p><p>Rob.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is sad , I hope you all see this as a very negative move .
As a Java developer and fan of the Sun set of java products , I am deeply sadden.Sun and Netbeans were already going downhill after they stopped supporting great features such as IceFaces Visual Design integration , and development of woodstock .
If you think this was bad , wait for Oracle to do what they do best .
I feel even worse for some of the other products such as MySQL .
This is Software Terrorism at its best .
( I am sure many of you follow Oracle CPU updates for it 's DB product , this will give you an indication for what 's ahead ) Rob .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is sad, I hope you all see this as a very negative move.
As a Java developer and fan of the Sun set of java products, I am deeply sadden.Sun and Netbeans were already going downhill after they stopped supporting great features such as IceFaces Visual Design integration, and development of woodstock.
If you think this was bad, wait for Oracle to do what they do best.
I feel even worse for some of the other products such as MySQL.
This is Software Terrorism at its best.
(I am sure many of you follow Oracle CPU updates for it's DB product, this will give you an indication for what's ahead)Rob.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30043002</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>fusiongyro</author>
	<datestamp>1257883980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I started professionally programming Java about two months ago and hadn't had any experience with it before.</p><p>First impression of Eclipse: it's slow, there were display artifacts. It's versioning scheme was clearly designed with pride rather than usability in mind (which is newer, Galileo or Ganymede, and how can you tell?). I could never find the correct Subversion plugin (was I supposed to be using Subclipse or Eclipse Subversion?). Both of them seemed to depend on other plugins which I was supposed to choose between or manually install. Ran into similar issues with Maven integration. The plugin had a clever name and once installed I never really figured out how to make it "go." I only have so much time to spend any given day on configuring my editor. Both coworkers who used Eclipse also helpfully assured me that I'd have to reinstall it every six months or so, because it tends to "go bad" after a while. Not a great sign.</p><p>On a whim I downloaded NetBeans. Nobody in my software group was using it, apparently older versions had turned them off completely. Out of the box, it opens Maven projects and the integration is seamless, and it has Subversion and Mercurial integration out of the box. For a new user, the out-of-the-box experience with NetBeans today beats Eclipse hands-down. Especially coming into a professional environment with many moving parts integrated.</p><p>The story isn't perfect. NetBeans takes forever and a day to start up. It also can get unresponsive from time to time. You can sink your whole day into configuring it. Plugin integration seems to in general be better than with Eclipse (at least to me) but configuration is a bit worse; everything seems to get thrown under that one tab in the preferences. It tries to manage Tomcat for me but I usually wind up manually force-quitting it (our app probably has a memory leak) because NetBeans' Terminate option doesn't ever seem to do anything. And there have been plenty of confusing issues. Tab completion worked in EL in our JSF facelets, but only inside  in a valid XHTML file; figuring that out took an afternoon. I'm still not altogether sure how to get the relationships between multiple projects right.</p><p>If I were going to summarize my opinion of NetBeans as a two month user, I'd say: usually it just works but when it doesn't, it's hard to figure out how to fix it. The situation with Eclipse seems to me to be more like, there's a plugin out there that does what you need, good luck figuring out how to get it installed and use it.</p><p>Prior to using Java and NetBeans, I mainly did PHP and Ruby plus some other miscellaneous on a Mac with TextMate, Emacs or Coda, depending on the situation. From a usability perspective, Coda in particular but also TextMate are wonderful tools. NetBeans and Eclipse both do some space-age cool stuff but their usability isn't quite up to par. Lots of things are slow that don't seem like they should be, like switching tabs and opening files, and fundamentals tend to be screwy. For example, in NetBeans, if I'm debugging an app and have an SQL window open, there will be three green play icons on my screen. One of them runs the app in not-debug mode, one of them continues from a breakpoint, and one of them runs the SQL command. None of these have particularly memorable shortcuts and their icons are too similar. NetBeans will happily run and deploy the app while I have it at a break point in a debugging session, though the exact intended meaning of that action would be hard to guess.</p><p>All in all, if you have a day to throw at it, I recommend giving NetBeans a shot. Two of my three coworkers wound up switching. It also has better Vim integration, if that's relevant to you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I started professionally programming Java about two months ago and had n't had any experience with it before.First impression of Eclipse : it 's slow , there were display artifacts .
It 's versioning scheme was clearly designed with pride rather than usability in mind ( which is newer , Galileo or Ganymede , and how can you tell ? ) .
I could never find the correct Subversion plugin ( was I supposed to be using Subclipse or Eclipse Subversion ? ) .
Both of them seemed to depend on other plugins which I was supposed to choose between or manually install .
Ran into similar issues with Maven integration .
The plugin had a clever name and once installed I never really figured out how to make it " go .
" I only have so much time to spend any given day on configuring my editor .
Both coworkers who used Eclipse also helpfully assured me that I 'd have to reinstall it every six months or so , because it tends to " go bad " after a while .
Not a great sign.On a whim I downloaded NetBeans .
Nobody in my software group was using it , apparently older versions had turned them off completely .
Out of the box , it opens Maven projects and the integration is seamless , and it has Subversion and Mercurial integration out of the box .
For a new user , the out-of-the-box experience with NetBeans today beats Eclipse hands-down .
Especially coming into a professional environment with many moving parts integrated.The story is n't perfect .
NetBeans takes forever and a day to start up .
It also can get unresponsive from time to time .
You can sink your whole day into configuring it .
Plugin integration seems to in general be better than with Eclipse ( at least to me ) but configuration is a bit worse ; everything seems to get thrown under that one tab in the preferences .
It tries to manage Tomcat for me but I usually wind up manually force-quitting it ( our app probably has a memory leak ) because NetBeans ' Terminate option does n't ever seem to do anything .
And there have been plenty of confusing issues .
Tab completion worked in EL in our JSF facelets , but only inside in a valid XHTML file ; figuring that out took an afternoon .
I 'm still not altogether sure how to get the relationships between multiple projects right.If I were going to summarize my opinion of NetBeans as a two month user , I 'd say : usually it just works but when it does n't , it 's hard to figure out how to fix it .
The situation with Eclipse seems to me to be more like , there 's a plugin out there that does what you need , good luck figuring out how to get it installed and use it.Prior to using Java and NetBeans , I mainly did PHP and Ruby plus some other miscellaneous on a Mac with TextMate , Emacs or Coda , depending on the situation .
From a usability perspective , Coda in particular but also TextMate are wonderful tools .
NetBeans and Eclipse both do some space-age cool stuff but their usability is n't quite up to par .
Lots of things are slow that do n't seem like they should be , like switching tabs and opening files , and fundamentals tend to be screwy .
For example , in NetBeans , if I 'm debugging an app and have an SQL window open , there will be three green play icons on my screen .
One of them runs the app in not-debug mode , one of them continues from a breakpoint , and one of them runs the SQL command .
None of these have particularly memorable shortcuts and their icons are too similar .
NetBeans will happily run and deploy the app while I have it at a break point in a debugging session , though the exact intended meaning of that action would be hard to guess.All in all , if you have a day to throw at it , I recommend giving NetBeans a shot .
Two of my three coworkers wound up switching .
It also has better Vim integration , if that 's relevant to you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I started professionally programming Java about two months ago and hadn't had any experience with it before.First impression of Eclipse: it's slow, there were display artifacts.
It's versioning scheme was clearly designed with pride rather than usability in mind (which is newer, Galileo or Ganymede, and how can you tell?).
I could never find the correct Subversion plugin (was I supposed to be using Subclipse or Eclipse Subversion?).
Both of them seemed to depend on other plugins which I was supposed to choose between or manually install.
Ran into similar issues with Maven integration.
The plugin had a clever name and once installed I never really figured out how to make it "go.
" I only have so much time to spend any given day on configuring my editor.
Both coworkers who used Eclipse also helpfully assured me that I'd have to reinstall it every six months or so, because it tends to "go bad" after a while.
Not a great sign.On a whim I downloaded NetBeans.
Nobody in my software group was using it, apparently older versions had turned them off completely.
Out of the box, it opens Maven projects and the integration is seamless, and it has Subversion and Mercurial integration out of the box.
For a new user, the out-of-the-box experience with NetBeans today beats Eclipse hands-down.
Especially coming into a professional environment with many moving parts integrated.The story isn't perfect.
NetBeans takes forever and a day to start up.
It also can get unresponsive from time to time.
You can sink your whole day into configuring it.
Plugin integration seems to in general be better than with Eclipse (at least to me) but configuration is a bit worse; everything seems to get thrown under that one tab in the preferences.
It tries to manage Tomcat for me but I usually wind up manually force-quitting it (our app probably has a memory leak) because NetBeans' Terminate option doesn't ever seem to do anything.
And there have been plenty of confusing issues.
Tab completion worked in EL in our JSF facelets, but only inside  in a valid XHTML file; figuring that out took an afternoon.
I'm still not altogether sure how to get the relationships between multiple projects right.If I were going to summarize my opinion of NetBeans as a two month user, I'd say: usually it just works but when it doesn't, it's hard to figure out how to fix it.
The situation with Eclipse seems to me to be more like, there's a plugin out there that does what you need, good luck figuring out how to get it installed and use it.Prior to using Java and NetBeans, I mainly did PHP and Ruby plus some other miscellaneous on a Mac with TextMate, Emacs or Coda, depending on the situation.
From a usability perspective, Coda in particular but also TextMate are wonderful tools.
NetBeans and Eclipse both do some space-age cool stuff but their usability isn't quite up to par.
Lots of things are slow that don't seem like they should be, like switching tabs and opening files, and fundamentals tend to be screwy.
For example, in NetBeans, if I'm debugging an app and have an SQL window open, there will be three green play icons on my screen.
One of them runs the app in not-debug mode, one of them continues from a breakpoint, and one of them runs the SQL command.
None of these have particularly memorable shortcuts and their icons are too similar.
NetBeans will happily run and deploy the app while I have it at a break point in a debugging session, though the exact intended meaning of that action would be hard to guess.All in all, if you have a day to throw at it, I recommend giving NetBeans a shot.
Two of my three coworkers wound up switching.
It also has better Vim integration, if that's relevant to you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30043088</id>
	<title>Why is this a shocker?</title>
	<author>Eskarel</author>
	<datestamp>1257885300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oracle is internally, as I understand it, an eclipse shop. They always have been. They've got Jbuilder for some specific applications, but for the most part it's eclipse all the way. Sun has tried a number of times to change this, but it's never worked, Oracle just doesn't like NetBeans much. When you combine that with the fact that it's not a hugely popular product(it's a lot more limited and a lot less powerful than eclipse) it's not really a huge shocker they're not going to pour resources into it. They're already working heavily with the eclipse project(including donating a rather large chunk of source code to them) and of course JBuilder as well. Maintaining a third IDE which they don't believe in and don't seem to particularly like and which isn't tremendously popular wouldn't really be terribly sensible of them.</p><p>On the plus side for all you NetBeans fans out there, it's all open source and it's all written in Java so you can all get together and maintain it yourself(if you're using NetBeans you're almost certainly a Java developer so there's no excuse). If it's not worth it to you, learn to use Eclipse like everyone else. It's a bitch to set up, but it's incredibly powerful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oracle is internally , as I understand it , an eclipse shop .
They always have been .
They 've got Jbuilder for some specific applications , but for the most part it 's eclipse all the way .
Sun has tried a number of times to change this , but it 's never worked , Oracle just does n't like NetBeans much .
When you combine that with the fact that it 's not a hugely popular product ( it 's a lot more limited and a lot less powerful than eclipse ) it 's not really a huge shocker they 're not going to pour resources into it .
They 're already working heavily with the eclipse project ( including donating a rather large chunk of source code to them ) and of course JBuilder as well .
Maintaining a third IDE which they do n't believe in and do n't seem to particularly like and which is n't tremendously popular would n't really be terribly sensible of them.On the plus side for all you NetBeans fans out there , it 's all open source and it 's all written in Java so you can all get together and maintain it yourself ( if you 're using NetBeans you 're almost certainly a Java developer so there 's no excuse ) .
If it 's not worth it to you , learn to use Eclipse like everyone else .
It 's a bitch to set up , but it 's incredibly powerful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oracle is internally, as I understand it, an eclipse shop.
They always have been.
They've got Jbuilder for some specific applications, but for the most part it's eclipse all the way.
Sun has tried a number of times to change this, but it's never worked, Oracle just doesn't like NetBeans much.
When you combine that with the fact that it's not a hugely popular product(it's a lot more limited and a lot less powerful than eclipse) it's not really a huge shocker they're not going to pour resources into it.
They're already working heavily with the eclipse project(including donating a rather large chunk of source code to them) and of course JBuilder as well.
Maintaining a third IDE which they don't believe in and don't seem to particularly like and which isn't tremendously popular wouldn't really be terribly sensible of them.On the plus side for all you NetBeans fans out there, it's all open source and it's all written in Java so you can all get together and maintain it yourself(if you're using NetBeans you're almost certainly a Java developer so there's no excuse).
If it's not worth it to you, learn to use Eclipse like everyone else.
It's a bitch to set up, but it's incredibly powerful.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038382</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Deth\_Master</author>
	<datestamp>1257761940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmm, as a java development platform (and as a C/C++ development IDE) it is unrivaled by Eclipse. Things seem to work so much smoother in netbeans. You don't have to configure the shit out of it to use it. Most stuff follows the convention over configuration principle. At least that's the way it seems to me<br>
Every time I use eclipse I'm surprised at the exceptional amount of options there are to do something simple. I rarely use them. Most of the options could be done with a couple bits of typing anyway.<br>
As for the RCP stuff, I don't particularly care about that. I think eclipse has the upper hand in that stuff, as that's what it was designed to be in the first place, unlike Netbeans, which was designed to be a Java IDE.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm , as a java development platform ( and as a C/C + + development IDE ) it is unrivaled by Eclipse .
Things seem to work so much smoother in netbeans .
You do n't have to configure the shit out of it to use it .
Most stuff follows the convention over configuration principle .
At least that 's the way it seems to me Every time I use eclipse I 'm surprised at the exceptional amount of options there are to do something simple .
I rarely use them .
Most of the options could be done with a couple bits of typing anyway .
As for the RCP stuff , I do n't particularly care about that .
I think eclipse has the upper hand in that stuff , as that 's what it was designed to be in the first place , unlike Netbeans , which was designed to be a Java IDE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm, as a java development platform (and as a C/C++ development IDE) it is unrivaled by Eclipse.
Things seem to work so much smoother in netbeans.
You don't have to configure the shit out of it to use it.
Most stuff follows the convention over configuration principle.
At least that's the way it seems to me
Every time I use eclipse I'm surprised at the exceptional amount of options there are to do something simple.
I rarely use them.
Most of the options could be done with a couple bits of typing anyway.
As for the RCP stuff, I don't particularly care about that.
I think eclipse has the upper hand in that stuff, as that's what it was designed to be in the first place, unlike Netbeans, which was designed to be a Java IDE.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30040004</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257769680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; How many NetBeans RCP platform apps</p><p>quite a lot.  some examples are found at :<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; http://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; How many NetBeans RCP platform appsquite a lot .
some examples are found at :     http : //platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; How many NetBeans RCP platform appsquite a lot.
some examples are found at :
    http://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039034</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Joseph Lam</author>
	<datestamp>1257764580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Netbeans isn't there in terms of industry backing and support (which is what we hope Oracle will provide). As far as the software itself is concerned I find it to be at least as good if not better than Eclipse. It's been significantly improved over the last couple of years from version 4.x to 6.x. There are two things that I like it better than Eclipse:<br>- it's 100\% Java and runs fine on anything that has a JVM (Eclipse's SWT has platform specific dependencies which prevented me from using it on 64bit machines, it took ages for it to have proper x64 support)<br>- better developer experience because of a cleaner and sensibly chosen set of plug-ins that all work out-of-the-box with no dependency hell (Eclipse plug-ins is a mess unless you pay for commercially packaged versions like MyEclipse)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Netbeans is n't there in terms of industry backing and support ( which is what we hope Oracle will provide ) .
As far as the software itself is concerned I find it to be at least as good if not better than Eclipse .
It 's been significantly improved over the last couple of years from version 4.x to 6.x .
There are two things that I like it better than Eclipse : - it 's 100 \ % Java and runs fine on anything that has a JVM ( Eclipse 's SWT has platform specific dependencies which prevented me from using it on 64bit machines , it took ages for it to have proper x64 support ) - better developer experience because of a cleaner and sensibly chosen set of plug-ins that all work out-of-the-box with no dependency hell ( Eclipse plug-ins is a mess unless you pay for commercially packaged versions like MyEclipse )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Netbeans isn't there in terms of industry backing and support (which is what we hope Oracle will provide).
As far as the software itself is concerned I find it to be at least as good if not better than Eclipse.
It's been significantly improved over the last couple of years from version 4.x to 6.x.
There are two things that I like it better than Eclipse:- it's 100\% Java and runs fine on anything that has a JVM (Eclipse's SWT has platform specific dependencies which prevented me from using it on 64bit machines, it took ages for it to have proper x64 support)- better developer experience because of a cleaner and sensibly chosen set of plug-ins that all work out-of-the-box with no dependency hell (Eclipse plug-ins is a mess unless you pay for commercially packaged versions like MyEclipse)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30041756</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257781980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots, it has never caught up with Eclipse.</p></div><p>Do Eclipse advocates REALLY have enough room to throw 'zealot' around?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots , it has never caught up with Eclipse.Do Eclipse advocates REALLY have enough room to throw 'zealot ' around ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots, it has never caught up with Eclipse.Do Eclipse advocates REALLY have enough room to throw 'zealot' around?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039398</id>
	<title>Re:It's the database, stupid.</title>
	<author>dingen</author>
	<datestamp>1257766260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm surprised they kept the SPARC line alive. It just doesn't seem to be necessary any more, and it was a money drain for Sun.</p></div><p>Well actually, the most common platform for Oracle deployment is Solaris on SPARC. So it doesn't seem so strange to me that Oracle isn't ditching their most used hardware platform now that they own it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised they kept the SPARC line alive .
It just does n't seem to be necessary any more , and it was a money drain for Sun.Well actually , the most common platform for Oracle deployment is Solaris on SPARC .
So it does n't seem so strange to me that Oracle is n't ditching their most used hardware platform now that they own it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm surprised they kept the SPARC line alive.
It just doesn't seem to be necessary any more, and it was a money drain for Sun.Well actually, the most common platform for Oracle deployment is Solaris on SPARC.
So it doesn't seem so strange to me that Oracle isn't ditching their most used hardware platform now that they own it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038856</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257763860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Yes, both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms, but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there?</i>
<br>
Well, apart from <a href="https://visualvm.dev.java.net/" title="java.net" rel="nofollow">VisualVM</a> [java.net] which is a very nice profiling tool (and even included in the <a href="http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/" title="sun.com" rel="nofollow">JDK</a> [sun.com] these days) you also have the <a href="http://java.sun.com/javame/downloads/" title="sun.com" rel="nofollow">Java ME SDK</a> [sun.com] (version 3.0).<br>
<br>
But most of all, if you would have bothered to check the <a href="http://www.netbeans.org/" title="netbeans.org" rel="nofollow">NetBeans website</a> [netbeans.org] you would have found the <a href="http://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html" title="netbeans.org" rel="nofollow">platform showcase</a> [netbeans.org]. So to answer your question about how many real applications: <b>dozens</b>, as you can see for yourself.<br>
<br>
Not to flame; but your comments about Eclipse vs. NetBeans would have had much more impact if you would actually have done some real investigating of your own.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms , but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there ?
Well , apart from VisualVM [ java.net ] which is a very nice profiling tool ( and even included in the JDK [ sun.com ] these days ) you also have the Java ME SDK [ sun.com ] ( version 3.0 ) .
But most of all , if you would have bothered to check the NetBeans website [ netbeans.org ] you would have found the platform showcase [ netbeans.org ] .
So to answer your question about how many real applications : dozens , as you can see for yourself .
Not to flame ; but your comments about Eclipse vs. NetBeans would have had much more impact if you would actually have done some real investigating of your own .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms, but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there?
Well, apart from VisualVM [java.net] which is a very nice profiling tool (and even included in the JDK [sun.com] these days) you also have the Java ME SDK [sun.com] (version 3.0).
But most of all, if you would have bothered to check the NetBeans website [netbeans.org] you would have found the platform showcase [netbeans.org].
So to answer your question about how many real applications: dozens, as you can see for yourself.
Not to flame; but your comments about Eclipse vs. NetBeans would have had much more impact if you would actually have done some real investigating of your own.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30055834</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>El\_Isma</author>
	<datestamp>1257871140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I find Netbeans VERY superior to Eclipse/PyDev for python development. Netbeans at least tries to help you, PyDev just stares at you... Also, considering that Python support on Netbeans is very new and already has loads of features... I find it very promising in the future.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I find Netbeans VERY superior to Eclipse/PyDev for python development .
Netbeans at least tries to help you , PyDev just stares at you... Also , considering that Python support on Netbeans is very new and already has loads of features... I find it very promising in the future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I find Netbeans VERY superior to Eclipse/PyDev for python development.
Netbeans at least tries to help you, PyDev just stares at you... Also, considering that Python support on Netbeans is very new and already has loads of features... I find it very promising in the future.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038524</id>
	<title>Re:It's the database, stupid.</title>
	<author>shogarth</author>
	<datestamp>1257762420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>SPARC is still quite relevant; there are few things as nice as running a multi-threaded set of applications on the Sun Niagara chips.  If I were a database software outfit I would want to make sure there were two architectures out there (IBM POWER and something else) focusing on enterprise performance rather than media creation/encoding.</p><p>Take a <a href="http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T2/" title="sun.com">look.</a> [sun.com]  Is there anything in the Intel or AMD product pipeline that will get you 2 x 10 Gb ethernet, 64 thread pipelines, and 128 GB of RAM in a 1U box?  Even better, the price is really competative with buying the same performance worth of x86 gear in multiple boxes by the time you think about rack space, cooling networking and all the rest of the data center head aches.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>SPARC is still quite relevant ; there are few things as nice as running a multi-threaded set of applications on the Sun Niagara chips .
If I were a database software outfit I would want to make sure there were two architectures out there ( IBM POWER and something else ) focusing on enterprise performance rather than media creation/encoding.Take a look .
[ sun.com ] Is there anything in the Intel or AMD product pipeline that will get you 2 x 10 Gb ethernet , 64 thread pipelines , and 128 GB of RAM in a 1U box ?
Even better , the price is really competative with buying the same performance worth of x86 gear in multiple boxes by the time you think about rack space , cooling networking and all the rest of the data center head aches .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>SPARC is still quite relevant; there are few things as nice as running a multi-threaded set of applications on the Sun Niagara chips.
If I were a database software outfit I would want to make sure there were two architectures out there (IBM POWER and something else) focusing on enterprise performance rather than media creation/encoding.Take a look.
[sun.com]  Is there anything in the Intel or AMD product pipeline that will get you 2 x 10 Gb ethernet, 64 thread pipelines, and 128 GB of RAM in a 1U box?
Even better, the price is really competative with buying the same performance worth of x86 gear in multiple boxes by the time you think about rack space, cooling networking and all the rest of the data center head aches.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039884</id>
	<title>Calling Bulls@#t on this.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257769140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Netbeans wont die. Not today, not tomorrow. If Netbeans would die tomorrow, it wouldnt move to a <a href="http://netbeans.org/community/news/show/1438.html" title="netbeans.org" rel="nofollow">new infrastructure now</a> [netbeans.org]<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Netbeans wont die .
Not today , not tomorrow .
If Netbeans would die tomorrow , it wouldnt move to a new infrastructure now [ netbeans.org ] .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Netbeans wont die.
Not today, not tomorrow.
If Netbeans would die tomorrow, it wouldnt move to a new infrastructure now [netbeans.org] ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038460</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257762240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lack of platform applications means little. The point of an IDE is to create applications <b>with</b> it, not on top of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lack of platform applications means little .
The point of an IDE is to create applications with it , not on top of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lack of platform applications means little.
The point of an IDE is to create applications with it, not on top of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039614</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1257767460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who came up with all that "platform" and "framework" shit? Someone with the motto "less modularity, less freedom, more lock-in!"?</p><p>I refuse to use everything that calls itself a development "platform" or a "framework". Please give me plain properly modularized and separated <strong>libraries</strong>!</p><p>I would never even come up with using my coding IDE as a runtime-library-kinda-thing! I mean how fucked up is that? If it were Microsoft, we would all smite it in the "two minutes hate" each day!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p><p>But I see it positive: I have the freedom to not use it. And thereby gain an advantage over all the "enterprise consultants" who use that stuff. Which is pretty nice of them, actually...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who came up with all that " platform " and " framework " shit ?
Someone with the motto " less modularity , less freedom , more lock-in !
" ? I refuse to use everything that calls itself a development " platform " or a " framework " .
Please give me plain properly modularized and separated libraries ! I would never even come up with using my coding IDE as a runtime-library-kinda-thing !
I mean how fucked up is that ?
If it were Microsoft , we would all smite it in the " two minutes hate " each day !
; ) But I see it positive : I have the freedom to not use it .
And thereby gain an advantage over all the " enterprise consultants " who use that stuff .
Which is pretty nice of them , actually... : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who came up with all that "platform" and "framework" shit?
Someone with the motto "less modularity, less freedom, more lock-in!
"?I refuse to use everything that calls itself a development "platform" or a "framework".
Please give me plain properly modularized and separated libraries!I would never even come up with using my coding IDE as a runtime-library-kinda-thing!
I mean how fucked up is that?
If it were Microsoft, we would all smite it in the "two minutes hate" each day!
;)But I see it positive: I have the freedom to not use it.
And thereby gain an advantage over all the "enterprise consultants" who use that stuff.
Which is pretty nice of them, actually... :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038414</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257762060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's slower than Eclipse but it does quite a few things Eclipse doesn't do well. A visual Java swing application designer that works for starters!</p><p>It's more stable too.</p><p>Given Oracle's Java procedure support in Oracle they're missing a trick, they should integrate SQL Developer and NetBeans to create a really good Java/Warehouse/BI tool.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's slower than Eclipse but it does quite a few things Eclipse does n't do well .
A visual Java swing application designer that works for starters ! It 's more stable too.Given Oracle 's Java procedure support in Oracle they 're missing a trick , they should integrate SQL Developer and NetBeans to create a really good Java/Warehouse/BI tool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's slower than Eclipse but it does quite a few things Eclipse doesn't do well.
A visual Java swing application designer that works for starters!It's more stable too.Given Oracle's Java procedure support in Oracle they're missing a trick, they should integrate SQL Developer and NetBeans to create a really good Java/Warehouse/BI tool.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037950</id>
	<title>not interested in the near valueless crap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257760140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>still waiting for Oracle to decide on the substantial Sun product's direction.  the ones that were worth billions, now in limbo, even losing value without an announced plan</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>still waiting for Oracle to decide on the substantial Sun product 's direction .
the ones that were worth billions , now in limbo , even losing value without an announced plan</tokentext>
<sentencetext>still waiting for Oracle to decide on the substantial Sun product's direction.
the ones that were worth billions, now in limbo, even losing value without an announced plan</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038996</id>
	<title>Re:Oracle Palns.</title>
	<author>What'sInAName</author>
	<datestamp>1257764400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just a typo.  It was supposed to be <a href="http://www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-pains" title="infoq.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-pains</a> [infoq.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just a typo .
It was supposed to be http : //www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-pains [ infoq.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just a typo.
It was supposed to be http://www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-pains [infoq.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037966</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039464</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1257766620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots, it has never caught up with Eclipse.</p></div><p>It depends. In terms of how easy it is to create, say, an UI application, NetBeans is much better out of the box than Eclipse, especially its awesome visual Swing designer. I've also found J2ME development to be more of a breeze in NetBeans compared to Eclipse offerings.</p><p>The problem with Eclipse, it seems, is that it overemphasizes extensions to the point that, to do <em>anything</em> useful, you need some mix of extensions. And often there are several extensions available that do the same thing differently, so you have to pick. So it's kinda like Linux - it's pointless to debate it in general, because the specific experience really depends on one's set of extensions used.</p><p>NetBeans is much more of a "turnkey" approach - you download the full version, install it, and everything that it can do, is there and working. If you want web or J2EE development, you get the full stack of servers, too. In that, it's much closer to Visual Studio in approach (which may be a good or a bad thing depending on your perspective).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots , it has never caught up with Eclipse.It depends .
In terms of how easy it is to create , say , an UI application , NetBeans is much better out of the box than Eclipse , especially its awesome visual Swing designer .
I 've also found J2ME development to be more of a breeze in NetBeans compared to Eclipse offerings.The problem with Eclipse , it seems , is that it overemphasizes extensions to the point that , to do anything useful , you need some mix of extensions .
And often there are several extensions available that do the same thing differently , so you have to pick .
So it 's kinda like Linux - it 's pointless to debate it in general , because the specific experience really depends on one 's set of extensions used.NetBeans is much more of a " turnkey " approach - you download the full version , install it , and everything that it can do , is there and working .
If you want web or J2EE development , you get the full stack of servers , too .
In that , it 's much closer to Visual Studio in approach ( which may be a good or a bad thing depending on your perspective ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots, it has never caught up with Eclipse.It depends.
In terms of how easy it is to create, say, an UI application, NetBeans is much better out of the box than Eclipse, especially its awesome visual Swing designer.
I've also found J2ME development to be more of a breeze in NetBeans compared to Eclipse offerings.The problem with Eclipse, it seems, is that it overemphasizes extensions to the point that, to do anything useful, you need some mix of extensions.
And often there are several extensions available that do the same thing differently, so you have to pick.
So it's kinda like Linux - it's pointless to debate it in general, because the specific experience really depends on one's set of extensions used.NetBeans is much more of a "turnkey" approach - you download the full version, install it, and everything that it can do, is there and working.
If you want web or J2EE development, you get the full stack of servers, too.
In that, it's much closer to Visual Studio in approach (which may be a good or a bad thing depending on your perspective).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038450</id>
	<title>TFA misses the point.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257762180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is not their first acquisition of a Java IDE (Or even their first JDK for that matter...)</p><p>Post-purchase they found themselves with two different Java IDEs, didn't see themselves supporting both, and picked the stronger of the two.</p><p>*shrug*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is not their first acquisition of a Java IDE ( Or even their first JDK for that matter... ) Post-purchase they found themselves with two different Java IDEs , did n't see themselves supporting both , and picked the stronger of the two .
* shrug *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is not their first acquisition of a Java IDE (Or even their first JDK for that matter...)Post-purchase they found themselves with two different Java IDEs, didn't see themselves supporting both, and picked the stronger of the two.
*shrug*</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30043010</id>
	<title>Zembly</title>
	<author>fatp</author>
	<datestamp>1257884100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seems zembly is the first victim...<br><br>http://zembly.com/static/suspend/index.html</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seems zembly is the first victim...http : //zembly.com/static/suspend/index.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seems zembly is the first victim...http://zembly.com/static/suspend/index.html</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30043918</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>l3v1</author>
	<datestamp>1257854940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Oracle should let Netbeans drift off into open source land. Perhaps it'll thrive? I don't know.</i> <br> <br>
I fear that a Netbeans drifted into opensource land would become another Eclipse. Nothing wrong with that except I don't like Eclipse and I do like Netbeans 6.x, and I'm not alone.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oracle should let Netbeans drift off into open source land .
Perhaps it 'll thrive ?
I do n't know .
I fear that a Netbeans drifted into opensource land would become another Eclipse .
Nothing wrong with that except I do n't like Eclipse and I do like Netbeans 6.x , and I 'm not alone .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oracle should let Netbeans drift off into open source land.
Perhaps it'll thrive?
I don't know.
I fear that a Netbeans drifted into opensource land would become another Eclipse.
Nothing wrong with that except I don't like Eclipse and I do like Netbeans 6.x, and I'm not alone.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038958</id>
	<title>Oracle is a big Eclipse supporter too - OEPE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257764280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Disclaimer - I work for Oracle and came from the BEA Systems acquisition.
<p>
My personal opinion is that Oracle is very dedicated to the entire Eclipse ecosystem as well as to JDeveloper.  It's about choice.  There is an entire free download product that is continually being enhanced called the Oracle Enterprise Pack for Eclipse (Oh-Pee is how we say it within Oracle).  In fact I believe it was one of the first, if not the first commercial IDE to support the latest Eclipse 3.5 Galileo.
<a href="http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/enterprise-pack-for-eclipse/index.html" title="oracle.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/enterprise-pack-for-eclipse/index.html</a> [oracle.com]
OEPE is targeted for Java and JEE developers and is mostly about supporting the Java standards.  Additionally, the majority of the TopLink code was donated as the EclipseLink project and is currently the JPA reference implementation.  Just take a look at the presence has at the next Eclipse conference and I think you will see that Oracle is committed to Eclipse.
<a href="http://www.eclipse.org/eclipselink/" title="eclipse.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.eclipse.org/eclipselink/</a> [eclipse.org]
</p><p>
When you get into the "upper-stack" components like SOA Suite for integration and WebCenter Suite for enterprise portal development, and Oracle's Application Development Framework (ADF) that Oracle strongly recommends JDeveloper.  Those products have been based on JDeveloper for a long time and the user-experience developing for those products is extremely smooth because Oracle can influence everything about the IDE.  If you want to do Java and JEE development in JDeveloper, you can do that too.  It's your choice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Disclaimer - I work for Oracle and came from the BEA Systems acquisition .
My personal opinion is that Oracle is very dedicated to the entire Eclipse ecosystem as well as to JDeveloper .
It 's about choice .
There is an entire free download product that is continually being enhanced called the Oracle Enterprise Pack for Eclipse ( Oh-Pee is how we say it within Oracle ) .
In fact I believe it was one of the first , if not the first commercial IDE to support the latest Eclipse 3.5 Galileo .
http : //www.oracle.com/technology/products/enterprise-pack-for-eclipse/index.html [ oracle.com ] OEPE is targeted for Java and JEE developers and is mostly about supporting the Java standards .
Additionally , the majority of the TopLink code was donated as the EclipseLink project and is currently the JPA reference implementation .
Just take a look at the presence has at the next Eclipse conference and I think you will see that Oracle is committed to Eclipse .
http : //www.eclipse.org/eclipselink/ [ eclipse.org ] When you get into the " upper-stack " components like SOA Suite for integration and WebCenter Suite for enterprise portal development , and Oracle 's Application Development Framework ( ADF ) that Oracle strongly recommends JDeveloper .
Those products have been based on JDeveloper for a long time and the user-experience developing for those products is extremely smooth because Oracle can influence everything about the IDE .
If you want to do Java and JEE development in JDeveloper , you can do that too .
It 's your choice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Disclaimer - I work for Oracle and came from the BEA Systems acquisition.
My personal opinion is that Oracle is very dedicated to the entire Eclipse ecosystem as well as to JDeveloper.
It's about choice.
There is an entire free download product that is continually being enhanced called the Oracle Enterprise Pack for Eclipse (Oh-Pee is how we say it within Oracle).
In fact I believe it was one of the first, if not the first commercial IDE to support the latest Eclipse 3.5 Galileo.
http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/enterprise-pack-for-eclipse/index.html [oracle.com]
OEPE is targeted for Java and JEE developers and is mostly about supporting the Java standards.
Additionally, the majority of the TopLink code was donated as the EclipseLink project and is currently the JPA reference implementation.
Just take a look at the presence has at the next Eclipse conference and I think you will see that Oracle is committed to Eclipse.
http://www.eclipse.org/eclipselink/ [eclipse.org]

When you get into the "upper-stack" components like SOA Suite for integration and WebCenter Suite for enterprise portal development, and Oracle's Application Development Framework (ADF) that Oracle strongly recommends JDeveloper.
Those products have been based on JDeveloper for a long time and the user-experience developing for those products is extremely smooth because Oracle can influence everything about the IDE.
If you want to do Java and JEE development in JDeveloper, you can do that too.
It's your choice.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30052894</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257853680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You must be joking... I use Netbeans 8 hours a day (often more), and I can assure you it's far more productive then Eclipse. Plus, most of it's plugins are free and of very good quality. Best IDE I've ever worked with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You must be joking... I use Netbeans 8 hours a day ( often more ) , and I can assure you it 's far more productive then Eclipse .
Plus , most of it 's plugins are free and of very good quality .
Best IDE I 've ever worked with : D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You must be joking... I use Netbeans 8 hours a day (often more), and I can assure you it's far more productive then Eclipse.
Plus, most of it's plugins are free and of very good quality.
Best IDE I've ever worked with :D</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30041502</id>
	<title>Re:Am I the only one...</title>
	<author>mrcleaver</author>
	<datestamp>1257779580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree with everything you said except the 'speed' part. </p><p>Eclipse in my experience is consistently faster than Netbeans (at least for small projects, any big project I do in Netbeans). </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with everything you said except the 'speed ' part .
Eclipse in my experience is consistently faster than Netbeans ( at least for small projects , any big project I do in Netbeans ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with everything you said except the 'speed' part.
Eclipse in my experience is consistently faster than Netbeans (at least for small projects, any big project I do in Netbeans). </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038792</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039942</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>rho</author>
	<datestamp>1257769380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who is using Netbeans?

</p><p>Is there any major Internet site or technology that relies on it?

</p><p>This sounds like the kind of announcement that will make two or three dozen Netbeans programmers gnash their teeth, and everybody else go, "....so?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who is using Netbeans ?
Is there any major Internet site or technology that relies on it ?
This sounds like the kind of announcement that will make two or three dozen Netbeans programmers gnash their teeth , and everybody else go , " ....so ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who is using Netbeans?
Is there any major Internet site or technology that relies on it?
This sounds like the kind of announcement that will make two or three dozen Netbeans programmers gnash their teeth, and everybody else go, "....so?
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038134</id>
	<title>It's the database, stupid.</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1257760920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
MySQL matters. NetBeans, not so much. Most of the web runs on MySQL.  There aren't that many good open-source alternatives.  (Oracle owns BerkeleyDB, too.)
  PostgreSQL is about it, and because that's Berkeley-licensed code, not GPL, it can be forked and the open version abandoned.
</p><p>
Oracle has to dump something.  I'm surprised they kept the SPARC line alive.  It just doesn't seem to be necessary any more, and it was a money drain for Sun.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MySQL matters .
NetBeans , not so much .
Most of the web runs on MySQL .
There are n't that many good open-source alternatives .
( Oracle owns BerkeleyDB , too .
) PostgreSQL is about it , and because that 's Berkeley-licensed code , not GPL , it can be forked and the open version abandoned .
Oracle has to dump something .
I 'm surprised they kept the SPARC line alive .
It just does n't seem to be necessary any more , and it was a money drain for Sun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
MySQL matters.
NetBeans, not so much.
Most of the web runs on MySQL.
There aren't that many good open-source alternatives.
(Oracle owns BerkeleyDB, too.
)
  PostgreSQL is about it, and because that's Berkeley-licensed code, not GPL, it can be forked and the open version abandoned.
Oracle has to dump something.
I'm surprised they kept the SPARC line alive.
It just doesn't seem to be necessary any more, and it was a money drain for Sun.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30044760</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>MemoryDragon</author>
	<datestamp>1257864120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is not that much slower and the things it does well are pretty important like having a decent JEE Plugin, heavens even after 4 years and 4 releases Eclipses WTP still refuses sometimes to deploy and does not even tell you what is wrong. For heavens sake how hard is it really just to jar something and deploy it?<br>Anyway I have given up on both platforms and am fully on Intellij, it combines the flexibility of Eclipse with the ease of use in Netbeans and adds its own set of excellent tools on top of both platforms.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is not that much slower and the things it does well are pretty important like having a decent JEE Plugin , heavens even after 4 years and 4 releases Eclipses WTP still refuses sometimes to deploy and does not even tell you what is wrong .
For heavens sake how hard is it really just to jar something and deploy it ? Anyway I have given up on both platforms and am fully on Intellij , it combines the flexibility of Eclipse with the ease of use in Netbeans and adds its own set of excellent tools on top of both platforms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is not that much slower and the things it does well are pretty important like having a decent JEE Plugin, heavens even after 4 years and 4 releases Eclipses WTP still refuses sometimes to deploy and does not even tell you what is wrong.
For heavens sake how hard is it really just to jar something and deploy it?Anyway I have given up on both platforms and am fully on Intellij, it combines the flexibility of Eclipse with the ease of use in Netbeans and adds its own set of excellent tools on top of both platforms.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30041930</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>devman</author>
	<datestamp>1257783900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree with you on the point that Eclipse can be complicated, but if there is one thing in Eclipse that really shines its Mylyn and Issue tracking integration. Being able to "switch tasks" and have it remember what you were looking at is pretty awesome, or being able to tag a bug with a Mylyn context, its pretty cool.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with you on the point that Eclipse can be complicated , but if there is one thing in Eclipse that really shines its Mylyn and Issue tracking integration .
Being able to " switch tasks " and have it remember what you were looking at is pretty awesome , or being able to tag a bug with a Mylyn context , its pretty cool .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with you on the point that Eclipse can be complicated, but if there is one thing in Eclipse that really shines its Mylyn and Issue tracking integration.
Being able to "switch tasks" and have it remember what you were looking at is pretty awesome, or being able to tag a bug with a Mylyn context, its pretty cool.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038382</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039636</id>
	<title>Re:Consider the source.</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1257767580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seconded! They are the kind of people called "opinion creators". Usually they work for someone who wants to twist reality to his favor.</p><p>So fuck them! With a spoon!</p><p>Why a spoon?</p><p>BECAUSE IT HURTS MORE! ^^</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seconded !
They are the kind of people called " opinion creators " .
Usually they work for someone who wants to twist reality to his favor.So fuck them !
With a spoon ! Why a spoon ? BECAUSE IT HURTS MORE !
^ ^</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seconded!
They are the kind of people called "opinion creators".
Usually they work for someone who wants to twist reality to his favor.So fuck them!
With a spoon!Why a spoon?BECAUSE IT HURTS MORE!
^^</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038286</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038236</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257761340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Really? That's lame. I stated nothing but facts. I used NetBeans in school, I use Eclipse now that I do real projects. And the original point was I didn't realize anyone used NetBeans for real projects. Not that I've been paying attention.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ?
That 's lame .
I stated nothing but facts .
I used NetBeans in school , I use Eclipse now that I do real projects .
And the original point was I did n't realize anyone used NetBeans for real projects .
Not that I 've been paying attention .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really?
That's lame.
I stated nothing but facts.
I used NetBeans in school, I use Eclipse now that I do real projects.
And the original point was I didn't realize anyone used NetBeans for real projects.
Not that I've been paying attention.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038634</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257762840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The company I work for uses it seriously. It's okay, though it could be faster.<br>I tried Eclipse a few years ago. It's just confusing. Me be dumb, but I don't like it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The company I work for uses it seriously .
It 's okay , though it could be faster.I tried Eclipse a few years ago .
It 's just confusing .
Me be dumb , but I do n't like it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The company I work for uses it seriously.
It's okay, though it could be faster.I tried Eclipse a few years ago.
It's just confusing.
Me be dumb, but I don't like it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30040334</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257771300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you hit on the main point.  Oracle gives very luke-warm support.  If it moved SQL Developer to NetBeans they would have a great combination.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you hit on the main point .
Oracle gives very luke-warm support .
If it moved SQL Developer to NetBeans they would have a great combination .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you hit on the main point.
Oracle gives very luke-warm support.
If it moved SQL Developer to NetBeans they would have a great combination.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038414</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039462</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257766620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's just rubbish.  I moved to NB from Eclipse because NB works better for me (and not just for J2EE, either, most of my work is client-side)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's just rubbish .
I moved to NB from Eclipse because NB works better for me ( and not just for J2EE , either , most of my work is client-side )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's just rubbish.
I moved to NB from Eclipse because NB works better for me (and not just for J2EE, either, most of my work is client-side)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039050</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257764700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, <a href="http://www.broadinstitute.org/igv/" title="broadinstitute.org" rel="nofollow">IGV</a> [broadinstitute.org] seems to be partially a netbeans app - and I've been using that at work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , IGV [ broadinstitute.org ] seems to be partially a netbeans app - and I 've been using that at work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, IGV [broadinstitute.org] seems to be partially a netbeans app - and I've been using that at work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30067650</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257080520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Yes, both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms, but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there?"</p><p>http://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html</p><p>That's the tip of the iceberg, since most companies don't like talking publicly about their software architecture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Yes , both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms , but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there ?
" http : //platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.htmlThat 's the tip of the iceberg , since most companies do n't like talking publicly about their software architecture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Yes, both Netbeans and Eclipse are also RCP platforms, but how many real Netbeans platform apps are there?
"http://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.htmlThat's the tip of the iceberg, since most companies don't like talking publicly about their software architecture.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30042726</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Florian Weimer</author>
	<datestamp>1257793920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I wasn't aware anyone seriously used it. I used it for school and I've been on Eclipse since I started doing real projects.</i></p><p>Apparently, some people use it productively, but I've always found that hard to believe.  Some things are just annoying (like nested dialogs that don't show your previous location when you open them again).  Other things appear to be more fundamental, like the lack of a single window (or file) listing all (and I mean all) compiler errors and warnings for a project.</p><p>And it's really strange that Netbeans development requires Java 1.5, even though that version has recently reached end-of-life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was n't aware anyone seriously used it .
I used it for school and I 've been on Eclipse since I started doing real projects.Apparently , some people use it productively , but I 've always found that hard to believe .
Some things are just annoying ( like nested dialogs that do n't show your previous location when you open them again ) .
Other things appear to be more fundamental , like the lack of a single window ( or file ) listing all ( and I mean all ) compiler errors and warnings for a project.And it 's really strange that Netbeans development requires Java 1.5 , even though that version has recently reached end-of-life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wasn't aware anyone seriously used it.
I used it for school and I've been on Eclipse since I started doing real projects.Apparently, some people use it productively, but I've always found that hard to believe.
Some things are just annoying (like nested dialogs that don't show your previous location when you open them again).
Other things appear to be more fundamental, like the lack of a single window (or file) listing all (and I mean all) compiler errors and warnings for a project.And it's really strange that Netbeans development requires Java 1.5, even though that version has recently reached end-of-life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30040440</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>farble1670</author>
	<datestamp>1257771780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <em>Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots, it has never caught up with Eclipse.</em> </p><p>that's an opinion that i'm guessing has either to do with how you use your IDE, or the fact that you haven't used netbeans in a while. i use both. i use netbeans for java / java EE development, and eclipse for android development (since netbeans doesn't have officially blessed android plugin). </p><p>leaving out the lack of an official android plugin, netbeans beats eclipse in every way. ease of use, plugins, stability, ease of install, flexibility, standards. the only thing i can say bad about netbeans is that it uses more resources that eclipse<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots , it has never caught up with Eclipse .
that 's an opinion that i 'm guessing has either to do with how you use your IDE , or the fact that you have n't used netbeans in a while .
i use both .
i use netbeans for java / java EE development , and eclipse for android development ( since netbeans does n't have officially blessed android plugin ) .
leaving out the lack of an official android plugin , netbeans beats eclipse in every way .
ease of use , plugins , stability , ease of install , flexibility , standards .
the only thing i can say bad about netbeans is that it uses more resources that eclipse .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Unfortunately for Netbeans zealots, it has never caught up with Eclipse.
that's an opinion that i'm guessing has either to do with how you use your IDE, or the fact that you haven't used netbeans in a while.
i use both.
i use netbeans for java / java EE development, and eclipse for android development (since netbeans doesn't have officially blessed android plugin).
leaving out the lack of an official android plugin, netbeans beats eclipse in every way.
ease of use, plugins, stability, ease of install, flexibility, standards.
the only thing i can say bad about netbeans is that it uses more resources that eclipse ...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30043906</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>l3v1</author>
	<datestamp>1257854820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Man, was Turbo Pascal a great environment, or was it?</i> <br> <br>
Oh, memories... Nice ones too.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Man , was Turbo Pascal a great environment , or was it ?
Oh , memories... Nice ones too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Man, was Turbo Pascal a great environment, or was it?
Oh, memories... Nice ones too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039446</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30047262</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257875280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look here, college boy.</p><p>You've NEVER done a "real project" in your life. Your big project in school was maybe 10K lines of code. Woo.</p><p>I'm wrapping up a 42KLOC Java project in NetBeans.  It's got a dozen packages, 40 GUI screens, and an embedded database. It'll be used by about 20,000 people shortly.</p><p>Come back when you've actually worked on production code. Until then, you're a kid trying to teach his grandma how to suck eggs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look here , college boy.You 've NEVER done a " real project " in your life .
Your big project in school was maybe 10K lines of code .
Woo.I 'm wrapping up a 42KLOC Java project in NetBeans .
It 's got a dozen packages , 40 GUI screens , and an embedded database .
It 'll be used by about 20,000 people shortly.Come back when you 've actually worked on production code .
Until then , you 're a kid trying to teach his grandma how to suck eggs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look here, college boy.You've NEVER done a "real project" in your life.
Your big project in school was maybe 10K lines of code.
Woo.I'm wrapping up a 42KLOC Java project in NetBeans.
It's got a dozen packages, 40 GUI screens, and an embedded database.
It'll be used by about 20,000 people shortly.Come back when you've actually worked on production code.
Until then, you're a kid trying to teach his grandma how to suck eggs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038606</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans has tons of platform apps</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257762720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It looks like someone didn't bother to check the NetBeans platform application showcase where there are so many platform apps that they had to categorize them:</p><p>http://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It looks like someone did n't bother to check the NetBeans platform application showcase where there are so many platform apps that they had to categorize them : http : //platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It looks like someone didn't bother to check the NetBeans platform application showcase where there are so many platform apps that they had to categorize them:http://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037966</id>
	<title>Oracle Palns.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257760200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-<b>palns</b> </p><p>I don't know what palns are or why Oracle/Sun thinks they are important, but<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-palns I do n't know what palns are or why Oracle/Sun thinks they are important , but .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-palns I don't know what palns are or why Oracle/Sun thinks they are important, but ...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038520</id>
	<title>IDEA is now open source</title>
	<author>TheOldBear</author>
	<datestamp>1257762420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Back in October, JetBrains announced that they were making Idea  <a href="http://www.jetbrains.org/display/IJOS/License+Information" title="jetbrains.org" rel="nofollow">'Community Edition' open source, covered by the Apache 2.0 license</a> [jetbrains.org].</htmltext>
<tokenext>Back in October , JetBrains announced that they were making Idea 'Community Edition ' open source , covered by the Apache 2.0 license [ jetbrains.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back in October, JetBrains announced that they were making Idea  'Community Edition' open source, covered by the Apache 2.0 license [jetbrains.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038926</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1257764100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Shut up.  You're obviously an emacs user and as such are an inconsequential twat.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Shut up .
You 're obviously an emacs user and as such are an inconsequential twat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shut up.
You're obviously an emacs user and as such are an inconsequential twat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038164</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30040746</id>
	<title>Yes, true.</title>
	<author>gbutler69</author>
	<datestamp>1257773640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But, you do realize that something that is BSD licensed can also be forked into a GPL version? Simply keep the BSD license notifications and ALL future additions to the fork are licensed GPL/LGPL, GLPv3 etc. You now have a GPL fork. So, if someone (who by the way?) abandons the BSD licensed version and begins solely working on a proprietary fork, the rest of the community can simply take the last BSD licensed version, create a GPL fork, and lock-out future proprietary forks and prevent the proprietary company from using the now GPL contributions to the GPL fork in their proprietary product.</htmltext>
<tokenext>But , you do realize that something that is BSD licensed can also be forked into a GPL version ?
Simply keep the BSD license notifications and ALL future additions to the fork are licensed GPL/LGPL , GLPv3 etc .
You now have a GPL fork .
So , if someone ( who by the way ?
) abandons the BSD licensed version and begins solely working on a proprietary fork , the rest of the community can simply take the last BSD licensed version , create a GPL fork , and lock-out future proprietary forks and prevent the proprietary company from using the now GPL contributions to the GPL fork in their proprietary product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But, you do realize that something that is BSD licensed can also be forked into a GPL version?
Simply keep the BSD license notifications and ALL future additions to the fork are licensed GPL/LGPL, GLPv3 etc.
You now have a GPL fork.
So, if someone (who by the way?
) abandons the BSD licensed version and begins solely working on a proprietary fork, the rest of the community can simply take the last BSD licensed version, create a GPL fork, and lock-out future proprietary forks and prevent the proprietary company from using the now GPL contributions to the GPL fork in their proprietary product.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038134</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30041434</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257779160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh we do.  I use Intellij IDEA at home and Netbeans at work.  For PHP, Netbeans is much more reliable than Eclipse PDT.  For example, it can index changes to a file in less than 5 minutes.  The terrible syntax indexing is my biggest complaint with Eclipse.  I don't see a point using a big, bloated IDE that doesn't perform basic code completion and error checking in a reasonable amount of time.  Perhaps I was just spoiled by IDEA and even Visual Studio.</p><p>Netbeans isn't perfect, but 6.7 is a lot better than previous releases. I think anyone who hasn't tried a 6.x release, should give it a go.  I used to hate Netbeans with a passion, but it's usable now.  As others have pointed out, there isn't a lot of setup time because you don't need 5 copies of it with different plugins to do different projects.  There's even a git plugin that works now.</p><p>The reason netbeans users are hostile is because we're sick of getting told to use eclipse. It's like getting told to use windows instead of any other system.  Just because it's defacto standard doesn't mean it's good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh we do .
I use Intellij IDEA at home and Netbeans at work .
For PHP , Netbeans is much more reliable than Eclipse PDT .
For example , it can index changes to a file in less than 5 minutes .
The terrible syntax indexing is my biggest complaint with Eclipse .
I do n't see a point using a big , bloated IDE that does n't perform basic code completion and error checking in a reasonable amount of time .
Perhaps I was just spoiled by IDEA and even Visual Studio.Netbeans is n't perfect , but 6.7 is a lot better than previous releases .
I think anyone who has n't tried a 6.x release , should give it a go .
I used to hate Netbeans with a passion , but it 's usable now .
As others have pointed out , there is n't a lot of setup time because you do n't need 5 copies of it with different plugins to do different projects .
There 's even a git plugin that works now.The reason netbeans users are hostile is because we 're sick of getting told to use eclipse .
It 's like getting told to use windows instead of any other system .
Just because it 's defacto standard does n't mean it 's good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh we do.
I use Intellij IDEA at home and Netbeans at work.
For PHP, Netbeans is much more reliable than Eclipse PDT.
For example, it can index changes to a file in less than 5 minutes.
The terrible syntax indexing is my biggest complaint with Eclipse.
I don't see a point using a big, bloated IDE that doesn't perform basic code completion and error checking in a reasonable amount of time.
Perhaps I was just spoiled by IDEA and even Visual Studio.Netbeans isn't perfect, but 6.7 is a lot better than previous releases.
I think anyone who hasn't tried a 6.x release, should give it a go.
I used to hate Netbeans with a passion, but it's usable now.
As others have pointed out, there isn't a lot of setup time because you don't need 5 copies of it with different plugins to do different projects.
There's even a git plugin that works now.The reason netbeans users are hostile is because we're sick of getting told to use eclipse.
It's like getting told to use windows instead of any other system.
Just because it's defacto standard doesn't mean it's good.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30040938</id>
	<title>NetBeans sucks!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257774960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>NetBeans is a major POS and I applaud the decision by Oracle to sh*t-can it.  Eclipse is the only IDE anyone should need, besides a good text editor like jEdit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>NetBeans is a major POS and I applaud the decision by Oracle to sh * t-can it .
Eclipse is the only IDE anyone should need , besides a good text editor like jEdit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>NetBeans is a major POS and I applaud the decision by Oracle to sh*t-can it.
Eclipse is the only IDE anyone should need, besides a good text editor like jEdit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038978</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Bill\_the\_Engineer</author>
	<datestamp>1257764340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I use both. I like Netbeans since 6.x, and I still use eclipse on some legacy projects.

</p><p>Eclipse is snappier at times, but it reeks of being created by a committee of competitors and a pain in the ass at times to setup for anything more substantial than editing (Subclipse or Subversive as a case in point). However, once you get it working, it works fairly well.
</p><p>The latest incarnation of Netbeans has more features out of the box and a whole lot easier to install and get to work with your SCM and etc.
</p><p>Both work sufficiently well as an IDE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I use both .
I like Netbeans since 6.x , and I still use eclipse on some legacy projects .
Eclipse is snappier at times , but it reeks of being created by a committee of competitors and a pain in the ass at times to setup for anything more substantial than editing ( Subclipse or Subversive as a case in point ) .
However , once you get it working , it works fairly well .
The latest incarnation of Netbeans has more features out of the box and a whole lot easier to install and get to work with your SCM and etc .
Both work sufficiently well as an IDE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I use both.
I like Netbeans since 6.x, and I still use eclipse on some legacy projects.
Eclipse is snappier at times, but it reeks of being created by a committee of competitors and a pain in the ass at times to setup for anything more substantial than editing (Subclipse or Subversive as a case in point).
However, once you get it working, it works fairly well.
The latest incarnation of Netbeans has more features out of the box and a whole lot easier to install and get to work with your SCM and etc.
Both work sufficiently well as an IDE.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038772</id>
	<title>As if Oracle cares...</title>
	<author>Angst Badger</author>
	<datestamp>1257763500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hate to belabor the obvious here, but Oracle is not terribly concerned with what developers think about them. There are two reasons companies buy Oracle licenses: they either absolutely have to have them, or someone <i>much</i> further up the chain than the developers -- at least in most companies -- thinks that they do. From the altitude in the org chart where those decisions are made, there's no difference between us and the janitors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hate to belabor the obvious here , but Oracle is not terribly concerned with what developers think about them .
There are two reasons companies buy Oracle licenses : they either absolutely have to have them , or someone much further up the chain than the developers -- at least in most companies -- thinks that they do .
From the altitude in the org chart where those decisions are made , there 's no difference between us and the janitors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hate to belabor the obvious here, but Oracle is not terribly concerned with what developers think about them.
There are two reasons companies buy Oracle licenses: they either absolutely have to have them, or someone much further up the chain than the developers -- at least in most companies -- thinks that they do.
From the altitude in the org chart where those decisions are made, there's no difference between us and the janitors.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30042248</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>acidrainx</author>
	<datestamp>1257787320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You should consider giving it another shot. NetBeans, in my opinion, is by far the best free Java IDE out there right now. As everyone has already pointed out, Eclipse is a plugin nightmare. The NetBeans UI is incredibly polished and while it might be slower at doing some things (e.g. autocompletion), it has a few features that I can't live without.</p><p>Check out the "Find Next/Previous Matching Word" keyboard shortcuts. I think it's bound to Ctrl+K and Ctrl+Shift+K by default. I never have to type more than 2 or 3 characters per word in my code. It's almost a complete replacement for the slower Ctrl+Space autocompletion. I really only use Ctrl+Space for reading Javadocs these days.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You should consider giving it another shot .
NetBeans , in my opinion , is by far the best free Java IDE out there right now .
As everyone has already pointed out , Eclipse is a plugin nightmare .
The NetBeans UI is incredibly polished and while it might be slower at doing some things ( e.g .
autocompletion ) , it has a few features that I ca n't live without.Check out the " Find Next/Previous Matching Word " keyboard shortcuts .
I think it 's bound to Ctrl + K and Ctrl + Shift + K by default .
I never have to type more than 2 or 3 characters per word in my code .
It 's almost a complete replacement for the slower Ctrl + Space autocompletion .
I really only use Ctrl + Space for reading Javadocs these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You should consider giving it another shot.
NetBeans, in my opinion, is by far the best free Java IDE out there right now.
As everyone has already pointed out, Eclipse is a plugin nightmare.
The NetBeans UI is incredibly polished and while it might be slower at doing some things (e.g.
autocompletion), it has a few features that I can't live without.Check out the "Find Next/Previous Matching Word" keyboard shortcuts.
I think it's bound to Ctrl+K and Ctrl+Shift+K by default.
I never have to type more than 2 or 3 characters per word in my code.
It's almost a complete replacement for the slower Ctrl+Space autocompletion.
I really only use Ctrl+Space for reading Javadocs these days.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038344</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257761760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are forgetting one veeeery important thing. I dont remember the stats exactly but only about 5\% or 20\% of all software is publicly available. All the rest is software developed based on contracts for specific use at a specific company and you cannot know how many such apps were developped on NetBeans platform. If you dont use it, it does not mean nobody else does and trust me there are plenty of apps being deployed based on NB platform.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are forgetting one veeeery important thing .
I dont remember the stats exactly but only about 5 \ % or 20 \ % of all software is publicly available .
All the rest is software developed based on contracts for specific use at a specific company and you can not know how many such apps were developped on NetBeans platform .
If you dont use it , it does not mean nobody else does and trust me there are plenty of apps being deployed based on NB platform .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are forgetting one veeeery important thing.
I dont remember the stats exactly but only about 5\% or 20\% of all software is publicly available.
All the rest is software developed based on contracts for specific use at a specific company and you cannot know how many such apps were developped on NetBeans platform.
If you dont use it, it does not mean nobody else does and trust me there are plenty of apps being deployed based on NB platform.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038822</id>
	<title>Re:Oracle Palns.</title>
	<author>ozbird</author>
	<datestamp>1257763740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The important stuff is in:<br> <br>

<a href="http://www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-sceret-flies" title="infoq.com">http://www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-sceret-flies</a> [infoq.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The important stuff is in : http : //www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-sceret-flies [ infoq.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The important stuff is in: 

http://www.infoq.com/news/2009/11/oracle-sun-sceret-flies [infoq.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037966</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039146</id>
	<title>IDEs out-competing each other for bloat</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1257765180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you ask me all the IDEs are getting bloated to the point where I think in 2-3 years you're going to need a 64 Bit environment with 8GB or more of RAM just to develop. (Where I am we find Weblogic development using Eclipse is getting slow on 32bit machines with 2GB RAM is getting...difficult) There is some attempt to address this with each IDE by making the platform extensible, and component/plugin based. Unfortunately to do even basic things you end up finding yourself stuck needing a long list of plugins, so whilst this is theoretically a fantastic move, in practice you're still left with a bloated environment. If you need support for multiple languages or environments you find the plugin architecture is no help at all for preventing bloat. (It's still great for adding features).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you ask me all the IDEs are getting bloated to the point where I think in 2-3 years you 're going to need a 64 Bit environment with 8GB or more of RAM just to develop .
( Where I am we find Weblogic development using Eclipse is getting slow on 32bit machines with 2GB RAM is getting...difficult ) There is some attempt to address this with each IDE by making the platform extensible , and component/plugin based .
Unfortunately to do even basic things you end up finding yourself stuck needing a long list of plugins , so whilst this is theoretically a fantastic move , in practice you 're still left with a bloated environment .
If you need support for multiple languages or environments you find the plugin architecture is no help at all for preventing bloat .
( It 's still great for adding features ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you ask me all the IDEs are getting bloated to the point where I think in 2-3 years you're going to need a 64 Bit environment with 8GB or more of RAM just to develop.
(Where I am we find Weblogic development using Eclipse is getting slow on 32bit machines with 2GB RAM is getting...difficult) There is some attempt to address this with each IDE by making the platform extensible, and component/plugin based.
Unfortunately to do even basic things you end up finding yourself stuck needing a long list of plugins, so whilst this is theoretically a fantastic move, in practice you're still left with a bloated environment.
If you need support for multiple languages or environments you find the plugin architecture is no help at all for preventing bloat.
(It's still great for adding features).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30044034</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257856500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Take a look at http://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html and some of the vendors building NetBeans RCP apps - Boeing, Northrop Grumman, U.S. Army Ballistics Research Laboratory.  These are not organizations you make stuff up about and post on the web.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Take a look at http : //platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html and some of the vendors building NetBeans RCP apps - Boeing , Northrop Grumman , U.S. Army Ballistics Research Laboratory .
These are not organizations you make stuff up about and post on the web .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Take a look at http://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html and some of the vendors building NetBeans RCP apps - Boeing, Northrop Grumman, U.S. Army Ballistics Research Laboratory.
These are not organizations you make stuff up about and post on the web.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039510</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>SnapShot</author>
	<datestamp>1257766860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree.  I used Eclipse for years but I've started using Netbeans 6.7 for more and more.  The problem we have where I work is that we do PHP projects and Java projects.  Six or eight months ago we were having real trouble getting getting PDT to play nice and, so far, NetBeans just works and switching between projects is very easy.</p><p>Anyway, they are both great IDE's that continue to get better and better.  If I have to switch back to Eclipse is won't be a major sacrifice, but I'll be unhappy that there won't be a free IDE competitor to keep the Eclipse devs motivated<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
I used Eclipse for years but I 've started using Netbeans 6.7 for more and more .
The problem we have where I work is that we do PHP projects and Java projects .
Six or eight months ago we were having real trouble getting getting PDT to play nice and , so far , NetBeans just works and switching between projects is very easy.Anyway , they are both great IDE 's that continue to get better and better .
If I have to switch back to Eclipse is wo n't be a major sacrifice , but I 'll be unhappy that there wo n't be a free IDE competitor to keep the Eclipse devs motivated : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
I used Eclipse for years but I've started using Netbeans 6.7 for more and more.
The problem we have where I work is that we do PHP projects and Java projects.
Six or eight months ago we were having real trouble getting getting PDT to play nice and, so far, NetBeans just works and switching between projects is very easy.Anyway, they are both great IDE's that continue to get better and better.
If I have to switch back to Eclipse is won't be a major sacrifice, but I'll be unhappy that there won't be a free IDE competitor to keep the Eclipse devs motivated :-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038396</id>
	<title>Re:Netbeans just isn't there</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257761940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Netbeans is real cool for webdevelopment. While I have been wrestling for days to get Eclipse installed with the right plugins I just got going in less than then minutes with Netbeans.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Netbeans is real cool for webdevelopment .
While I have been wrestling for days to get Eclipse installed with the right plugins I just got going in less than then minutes with Netbeans .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Netbeans is real cool for webdevelopment.
While I have been wrestling for days to get Eclipse installed with the right plugins I just got going in less than then minutes with Netbeans.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039412</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>kaffiene</author>
	<datestamp>1257766380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a Java developer of many years experience, I've been using NB since about version 5.  That's when it started being better than Eclipse and Eclipse starting turning into a plugin nightmare.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a Java developer of many years experience , I 've been using NB since about version 5 .
That 's when it started being better than Eclipse and Eclipse starting turning into a plugin nightmare .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a Java developer of many years experience, I've been using NB since about version 5.
That's when it started being better than Eclipse and Eclipse starting turning into a plugin nightmare.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30039446</id>
	<title>Re:NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1257766560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uuum, you mean that huge slow mess of co-dependent modules and shit, that you have to wade through for weeks to get to anything usable, that is called Eclipse?</p><p>Really! as a Java, J2ME, Haskell and web developer, I stopped after two fucking weeks! It's even worse than the Miranda IM! Hell, it's worse than installing Gentoo from Stage 1! And that means something!</p><p>Sorry for the hate. But sometimes, hate is deserved.</p><p>I'm happy if you are happy with it. And in system administration, I can also be a bit that way.<br>But I... well... in programming... I just want to code...</p><p>I can do with Kate, or any basic code editor, and a reasonably scriptable shell, if I have to. No problem.<br>But when I get the possibility to get more <em>without a big hassle</em>, I go for it.</p><p>Before NetBeans, I used JBuilder, because I was used to Delphi, which I got to from the old Pascal days. (Man, was Turbo Pascal a great environment, or was it?)</p><p>Conclusion: Everyone has its own motives, interests and tastes. Everyhing is relative. Stop being so egocentric, and acting like we don't do "real projects" like the oh so great guru that you think you are. Because with that narrow view on the world, I seriously doubt you even understand real "guruness".<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br>(But hope you'll get there. And me too.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uuum , you mean that huge slow mess of co-dependent modules and shit , that you have to wade through for weeks to get to anything usable , that is called Eclipse ? Really !
as a Java , J2ME , Haskell and web developer , I stopped after two fucking weeks !
It 's even worse than the Miranda IM !
Hell , it 's worse than installing Gentoo from Stage 1 !
And that means something ! Sorry for the hate .
But sometimes , hate is deserved.I 'm happy if you are happy with it .
And in system administration , I can also be a bit that way.But I... well... in programming... I just want to code...I can do with Kate , or any basic code editor , and a reasonably scriptable shell , if I have to .
No problem.But when I get the possibility to get more without a big hassle , I go for it.Before NetBeans , I used JBuilder , because I was used to Delphi , which I got to from the old Pascal days .
( Man , was Turbo Pascal a great environment , or was it ?
) Conclusion : Everyone has its own motives , interests and tastes .
Everyhing is relative .
Stop being so egocentric , and acting like we do n't do " real projects " like the oh so great guru that you think you are .
Because with that narrow view on the world , I seriously doubt you even understand real " guruness " .
: ) ( But hope you 'll get there .
And me too .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uuum, you mean that huge slow mess of co-dependent modules and shit, that you have to wade through for weeks to get to anything usable, that is called Eclipse?Really!
as a Java, J2ME, Haskell and web developer, I stopped after two fucking weeks!
It's even worse than the Miranda IM!
Hell, it's worse than installing Gentoo from Stage 1!
And that means something!Sorry for the hate.
But sometimes, hate is deserved.I'm happy if you are happy with it.
And in system administration, I can also be a bit that way.But I... well... in programming... I just want to code...I can do with Kate, or any basic code editor, and a reasonably scriptable shell, if I have to.
No problem.But when I get the possibility to get more without a big hassle, I go for it.Before NetBeans, I used JBuilder, because I was used to Delphi, which I got to from the old Pascal days.
(Man, was Turbo Pascal a great environment, or was it?
)Conclusion: Everyone has its own motives, interests and tastes.
Everyhing is relative.
Stop being so egocentric, and acting like we don't do "real projects" like the oh so great guru that you think you are.
Because with that narrow view on the world, I seriously doubt you even understand real "guruness".
:)(But hope you'll get there.
And me too.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038758</id>
	<title>Re:Oracle has declared war on IBM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257763440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oracle has declared war on IBM:</p><p>http://www.oracle.com/features/suncustomers.html</p><p>I wouldn't be surprised if Oracle announces that they will invest more money in NetBeans than Sun currently does and put less focus on their Eclipse plugins.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oracle has declared war on IBM : http : //www.oracle.com/features/suncustomers.htmlI would n't be surprised if Oracle announces that they will invest more money in NetBeans than Sun currently does and put less focus on their Eclipse plugins .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oracle has declared war on IBM:http://www.oracle.com/features/suncustomers.htmlI wouldn't be surprised if Oracle announces that they will invest more money in NetBeans than Sun currently does and put less focus on their Eclipse plugins.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30038036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_09_1845250.30037936</id>
	<title>NetBeans? Really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257760080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wasn't aware anyone seriously used it. I used it for school and I've been on Eclipse since I started doing real projects.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was n't aware anyone seriously used it .
I used it for school and I 've been on Eclipse since I started doing real projects .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wasn't aware anyone seriously used it.
I used it for school and I've been on Eclipse since I started doing real projects.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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