<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_08_1659227</id>
	<title>Reusing Old TiVo Hardware?</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1257700620000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://buss\_erroratyahoodotcom/" rel="nofollow">buss\_error</a> writes <i>"I have old TiVo hardware that I'd like to reuse &mdash; however, I find in searching that the most frequent reply is: 'Don't cheat TiVo!' I don't want to cheat TiVo &mdash; in fact, I'd like to nuke the drive with a completely open-source distro with no TiVo drivers at all. Some uses I think would be interesting: recording video for security cameras or a drive cam; a unit for weather reporting; fax/telephone; a power monitor for the home; or other home automation. I would prefer a completely TiVo-free install &mdash; this is because I have major issues with TiVo and don't want the slightest taint of their intellectual property. But, since I paid for the hardware, I'd like to wring some use out of it rather than simply putting it in the landfill."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>buss \ _error writes " I have old TiVo hardware that I 'd like to reuse    however , I find in searching that the most frequent reply is : 'Do n't cheat TiVo !
' I do n't want to cheat TiVo    in fact , I 'd like to nuke the drive with a completely open-source distro with no TiVo drivers at all .
Some uses I think would be interesting : recording video for security cameras or a drive cam ; a unit for weather reporting ; fax/telephone ; a power monitor for the home ; or other home automation .
I would prefer a completely TiVo-free install    this is because I have major issues with TiVo and do n't want the slightest taint of their intellectual property .
But , since I paid for the hardware , I 'd like to wring some use out of it rather than simply putting it in the landfill .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>buss\_error writes "I have old TiVo hardware that I'd like to reuse — however, I find in searching that the most frequent reply is: 'Don't cheat TiVo!
' I don't want to cheat TiVo — in fact, I'd like to nuke the drive with a completely open-source distro with no TiVo drivers at all.
Some uses I think would be interesting: recording video for security cameras or a drive cam; a unit for weather reporting; fax/telephone; a power monitor for the home; or other home automation.
I would prefer a completely TiVo-free install — this is because I have major issues with TiVo and don't want the slightest taint of their intellectual property.
But, since I paid for the hardware, I'd like to wring some use out of it rather than simply putting it in the landfill.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023570</id>
	<title>Re:The security cam recording might be easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257706920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is only true of certain very specific models. It's called something like "Tivo Basic". Most Series 2, DirectTV Tivo (aka DirecTivo) and all Series 3 and Tivo HD do <b>not</b> function in this way. Most Tivos will only support watching and pausing live TV without Tivo service.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is only true of certain very specific models .
It 's called something like " Tivo Basic " .
Most Series 2 , DirectTV Tivo ( aka DirecTivo ) and all Series 3 and Tivo HD do not function in this way .
Most Tivos will only support watching and pausing live TV without Tivo service .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is only true of certain very specific models.
It's called something like "Tivo Basic".
Most Series 2, DirectTV Tivo (aka DirecTivo) and all Series 3 and Tivo HD do not function in this way.
Most Tivos will only support watching and pausing live TV without Tivo service.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023210</id>
	<title>Don't cheat TiVo!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257704820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'nuff said.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'nuff said .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'nuff said.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30028538</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257699360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe you need to learn more about the various useful aspects of this tool called 'knife', 'air', 'keyboard', 'gun', 'towel'. All can be used for good and ban purposes. Legal and illegal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe you need to learn more about the various useful aspects of this tool called 'knife ' , 'air ' , 'keyboard ' , 'gun ' , 'towel' .
All can be used for good and ban purposes .
Legal and illegal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe you need to learn more about the various useful aspects of this tool called 'knife', 'air', 'keyboard', 'gun', 'towel'.
All can be used for good and ban purposes.
Legal and illegal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023696</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257707820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to abuse</p></div><p>Genuine question (I'm not being rhetorical): do you consider using hardware you own for personal, constructive purposes ever to be "abuse"?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry , what you 're asking for is too easy to abuseGenuine question ( I 'm not being rhetorical ) : do you consider using hardware you own for personal , constructive purposes ever to be " abuse " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to abuseGenuine question (I'm not being rhetorical): do you consider using hardware you own for personal, constructive purposes ever to be "abuse"?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023172</id>
	<title>I just want to say ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257704640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't cheat TiVo!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't cheat TiVo !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't cheat TiVo!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024268</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Dputiger</author>
	<datestamp>1257712380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If I use my genuine, personal hardware to do something illegal with a legal program, I am using the hardware in an illegal/abusive way. I'm not equating legality and use/abuse, but it's not hard to see how the freedom to use any given device legally often opens abusive or illegal options.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If I use my genuine , personal hardware to do something illegal with a legal program , I am using the hardware in an illegal/abusive way .
I 'm not equating legality and use/abuse , but it 's not hard to see how the freedom to use any given device legally often opens abusive or illegal options .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If I use my genuine, personal hardware to do something illegal with a legal program, I am using the hardware in an illegal/abusive way.
I'm not equating legality and use/abuse, but it's not hard to see how the freedom to use any given device legally often opens abusive or illegal options.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023696</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30029060</id>
	<title>Don't write stupid subject lines</title>
	<author>fm6</author>
	<datestamp>1257703920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Seriously, why do people buy a locked down piece of hardware, then wonder why they can't do anything that hasn't specifically been authorised with it?</p></div><p>Because they're hackers. Hacking doesn't make any practical or economic sense. There's always some off-the-shelf solution that's less hassle and probably less money.</p><p>Electronic hardware depreciates 50\% per year. So it's not very long before <i>all</i> its market value is gone. Does that make old C64s useless? Not to the hackers who are still playing with them 15 years after they were discontinued.</p><p>Now about your headline. "Don't buy TIVO, or any other locked down device". You're making an apples and oranges argument here. Yeah, it's stupid to buy a Tivo to repurpose it for some other use. But here's a flash: pretty much all Tivos are bought by people who plan to use them the way they're intended. The Ask Slashdot wasn't submitted by somebody who went to a store and bought a brand new Tivo &mdash; he's somebody who has an old one he doesn't want to throw away.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , why do people buy a locked down piece of hardware , then wonder why they ca n't do anything that has n't specifically been authorised with it ? Because they 're hackers .
Hacking does n't make any practical or economic sense .
There 's always some off-the-shelf solution that 's less hassle and probably less money.Electronic hardware depreciates 50 \ % per year .
So it 's not very long before all its market value is gone .
Does that make old C64s useless ?
Not to the hackers who are still playing with them 15 years after they were discontinued.Now about your headline .
" Do n't buy TIVO , or any other locked down device " .
You 're making an apples and oranges argument here .
Yeah , it 's stupid to buy a Tivo to repurpose it for some other use .
But here 's a flash : pretty much all Tivos are bought by people who plan to use them the way they 're intended .
The Ask Slashdot was n't submitted by somebody who went to a store and bought a brand new Tivo    he 's somebody who has an old one he does n't want to throw away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, why do people buy a locked down piece of hardware, then wonder why they can't do anything that hasn't specifically been authorised with it?Because they're hackers.
Hacking doesn't make any practical or economic sense.
There's always some off-the-shelf solution that's less hassle and probably less money.Electronic hardware depreciates 50\% per year.
So it's not very long before all its market value is gone.
Does that make old C64s useless?
Not to the hackers who are still playing with them 15 years after they were discontinued.Now about your headline.
"Don't buy TIVO, or any other locked down device".
You're making an apples and oranges argument here.
Yeah, it's stupid to buy a Tivo to repurpose it for some other use.
But here's a flash: pretty much all Tivos are bought by people who plan to use them the way they're intended.
The Ask Slashdot wasn't submitted by somebody who went to a store and bought a brand new Tivo — he's somebody who has an old one he doesn't want to throw away.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30033914</id>
	<title>Re:Tried It</title>
	<author>jj00</author>
	<datestamp>1257786840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I realize I'm late to post, but I couldn't resist putting my 2 cents in.  I acquired a free series 2 Tivo from a friend, and tried to use it as a local media server (I already have a directv tivo).  I had plans to just use the Tivo desktop software to push my movies and such onto the Tivo, maybe download a few shows via Amazon, play some music through Rhapsody, etc.
<br> <br>
What a pain in the butt.  In order to do any of that kind of stuff, you need a "media key".  I had to subscribe to activate my Tivo just to be able to put my own content on the box.  I even contacted them and asked if they had a discounted plan since I wasn't using their scheduling information for any recording whatsoever.  No luck, I tried it for a bit, and it was somewhat nice, but not worth it in the end (~$100/year).
<br> <br>
I really think Tivo is missing out on an entire different model for the after-life of these boxes.  I would totally pay for an upgrade to disable recording and just use it as a media box, music server, security camera, etc.  It always annoys me when hardware companies just move on and dump older hardware.  Seriously, why can't HP just sell a new printer driver for that older printer rather than just give up and no longer support it.  Microsoft should have opened up the original xbox to allow the same kind of modifications.  It would be a great PR move to show that they are truly environmentally conscious.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I realize I 'm late to post , but I could n't resist putting my 2 cents in .
I acquired a free series 2 Tivo from a friend , and tried to use it as a local media server ( I already have a directv tivo ) .
I had plans to just use the Tivo desktop software to push my movies and such onto the Tivo , maybe download a few shows via Amazon , play some music through Rhapsody , etc .
What a pain in the butt .
In order to do any of that kind of stuff , you need a " media key " .
I had to subscribe to activate my Tivo just to be able to put my own content on the box .
I even contacted them and asked if they had a discounted plan since I was n't using their scheduling information for any recording whatsoever .
No luck , I tried it for a bit , and it was somewhat nice , but not worth it in the end ( ~ $ 100/year ) .
I really think Tivo is missing out on an entire different model for the after-life of these boxes .
I would totally pay for an upgrade to disable recording and just use it as a media box , music server , security camera , etc .
It always annoys me when hardware companies just move on and dump older hardware .
Seriously , why ca n't HP just sell a new printer driver for that older printer rather than just give up and no longer support it .
Microsoft should have opened up the original xbox to allow the same kind of modifications .
It would be a great PR move to show that they are truly environmentally conscious .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I realize I'm late to post, but I couldn't resist putting my 2 cents in.
I acquired a free series 2 Tivo from a friend, and tried to use it as a local media server (I already have a directv tivo).
I had plans to just use the Tivo desktop software to push my movies and such onto the Tivo, maybe download a few shows via Amazon, play some music through Rhapsody, etc.
What a pain in the butt.
In order to do any of that kind of stuff, you need a "media key".
I had to subscribe to activate my Tivo just to be able to put my own content on the box.
I even contacted them and asked if they had a discounted plan since I wasn't using their scheduling information for any recording whatsoever.
No luck, I tried it for a bit, and it was somewhat nice, but not worth it in the end (~$100/year).
I really think Tivo is missing out on an entire different model for the after-life of these boxes.
I would totally pay for an upgrade to disable recording and just use it as a media box, music server, security camera, etc.
It always annoys me when hardware companies just move on and dump older hardware.
Seriously, why can't HP just sell a new printer driver for that older printer rather than just give up and no longer support it.
Microsoft should have opened up the original xbox to allow the same kind of modifications.
It would be a great PR move to show that they are truly environmentally conscious.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023254</id>
	<title>The security cam recording might be easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257705120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>A Tivo without service doesn't just up and die.  Rather it loses its guide data but can still be programmed like an old VCR.  Having it record from a security cam should be super easy to do, just program 24 different one hour recordings on whatever port the camera is on and let it go.  The Tivo will even manage its disk space and everything, removing the oldest recordings as the disk fills up and replacing them with new ones.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A Tivo without service does n't just up and die .
Rather it loses its guide data but can still be programmed like an old VCR .
Having it record from a security cam should be super easy to do , just program 24 different one hour recordings on whatever port the camera is on and let it go .
The Tivo will even manage its disk space and everything , removing the oldest recordings as the disk fills up and replacing them with new ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A Tivo without service doesn't just up and die.
Rather it loses its guide data but can still be programmed like an old VCR.
Having it record from a security cam should be super easy to do, just program 24 different one hour recordings on whatever port the camera is on and let it go.
The Tivo will even manage its disk space and everything, removing the oldest recordings as the disk fills up and replacing them with new ones.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024350</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Dare nMc</author>
	<datestamp>1257713040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's about the guide data.  Tivo would sell a DVR for $199 but charge $5 a month so you could dial into their server monthly to download the guide (and some value added TVGuide stuff.)  They also sold identical hardware for $350 that had a lifetime subscription.  You could simply alter a few bits on the non-lifetime DVR and re-sale it for a profit as having a lifetime sub.  (past tense, since I have no idea what tivo has done in the last 2 years)  TIVO did deserve the hack though.  They sold lifetime subscriptions for $150.  Even on hardware with a service plan, the hardware failed (even under warranty) they would replace the hardware and refuse to update to lifetime subscription unless you paid another $150.  This pissed off a programmer so much he went on a mission to avoid paying twice, succeded and shared it with all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's about the guide data .
Tivo would sell a DVR for $ 199 but charge $ 5 a month so you could dial into their server monthly to download the guide ( and some value added TVGuide stuff .
) They also sold identical hardware for $ 350 that had a lifetime subscription .
You could simply alter a few bits on the non-lifetime DVR and re-sale it for a profit as having a lifetime sub .
( past tense , since I have no idea what tivo has done in the last 2 years ) TIVO did deserve the hack though .
They sold lifetime subscriptions for $ 150 .
Even on hardware with a service plan , the hardware failed ( even under warranty ) they would replace the hardware and refuse to update to lifetime subscription unless you paid another $ 150 .
This pissed off a programmer so much he went on a mission to avoid paying twice , succeded and shared it with all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's about the guide data.
Tivo would sell a DVR for $199 but charge $5 a month so you could dial into their server monthly to download the guide (and some value added TVGuide stuff.
)  They also sold identical hardware for $350 that had a lifetime subscription.
You could simply alter a few bits on the non-lifetime DVR and re-sale it for a profit as having a lifetime sub.
(past tense, since I have no idea what tivo has done in the last 2 years)  TIVO did deserve the hack though.
They sold lifetime subscriptions for $150.
Even on hardware with a service plan, the hardware failed (even under warranty) they would replace the hardware and refuse to update to lifetime subscription unless you paid another $150.
This pissed off a programmer so much he went on a mission to avoid paying twice, succeded and shared it with all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023972</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30028602</id>
	<title>Re:They call it Tivoization.</title>
	<author>mysidia</author>
	<datestamp>1257699960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
And he's asking how to defeat that..
people can and have defeated it, the
information regarding how to 'hack' the hardware to load your own OS should become common knowledge...
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And he 's asking how to defeat that. . people can and have defeated it , the information regarding how to 'hack ' the hardware to load your own OS should become common knowledge.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
And he's asking how to defeat that..
people can and have defeated it, the
information regarding how to 'hack' the hardware to load your own OS should become common knowledge...
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023252</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30042180</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257786420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Even on hardware with a service plan, the hardware failed (even under warranty) they would replace the hardware and refuse to update to lifetime subscription unless you paid another $150. This pissed off a programmer so much he went on a mission to avoid paying twice, succeded and shared it with all.</i> </p><p>It's called "screwing the secondary market" and "fucking anyone who won't knuckle under to their profit plan". It's the same shit Cisco pulled as the dotcom bubble popped. Companies bought high-end routers and other hardware for top dollar. When the company imploded after a couple of years of big, blowout parties and giving out Ferraris to top execs, the hardware was sold in bankruptcy for pennies on the dollar.</p><p>It was scooped up cheap and people went to Cisco to subscribe to updates. The Cisco fucks then insisted that a months-old router be brought in for a very pricey  "re-certification". "Please leave one arm and the leg from the same side at the counter on your way out. Fuck 'right of first sale' -- we'll make that useless to you."</p><p>Same thing the copyright pricks are doing to restrict the sale of used CDs. Same thing that publishers tried to do to public libraries many years ago. And are still trying to do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even on hardware with a service plan , the hardware failed ( even under warranty ) they would replace the hardware and refuse to update to lifetime subscription unless you paid another $ 150 .
This pissed off a programmer so much he went on a mission to avoid paying twice , succeded and shared it with all .
It 's called " screwing the secondary market " and " fucking anyone who wo n't knuckle under to their profit plan " .
It 's the same shit Cisco pulled as the dotcom bubble popped .
Companies bought high-end routers and other hardware for top dollar .
When the company imploded after a couple of years of big , blowout parties and giving out Ferraris to top execs , the hardware was sold in bankruptcy for pennies on the dollar.It was scooped up cheap and people went to Cisco to subscribe to updates .
The Cisco fucks then insisted that a months-old router be brought in for a very pricey " re-certification " .
" Please leave one arm and the leg from the same side at the counter on your way out .
Fuck 'right of first sale ' -- we 'll make that useless to you .
" Same thing the copyright pricks are doing to restrict the sale of used CDs .
Same thing that publishers tried to do to public libraries many years ago .
And are still trying to do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even on hardware with a service plan, the hardware failed (even under warranty) they would replace the hardware and refuse to update to lifetime subscription unless you paid another $150.
This pissed off a programmer so much he went on a mission to avoid paying twice, succeded and shared it with all.
It's called "screwing the secondary market" and "fucking anyone who won't knuckle under to their profit plan".
It's the same shit Cisco pulled as the dotcom bubble popped.
Companies bought high-end routers and other hardware for top dollar.
When the company imploded after a couple of years of big, blowout parties and giving out Ferraris to top execs, the hardware was sold in bankruptcy for pennies on the dollar.It was scooped up cheap and people went to Cisco to subscribe to updates.
The Cisco fucks then insisted that a months-old router be brought in for a very pricey  "re-certification".
"Please leave one arm and the leg from the same side at the counter on your way out.
Fuck 'right of first sale' -- we'll make that useless to you.
"Same thing the copyright pricks are doing to restrict the sale of used CDs.
Same thing that publishers tried to do to public libraries many years ago.
And are still trying to do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023140</id>
	<title>yes!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257704460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You can reuse tivo hardware.  I mean, you losers reuse your own asshole as a cock socket, so this should be much easier.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can reuse tivo hardware .
I mean , you losers reuse your own asshole as a cock socket , so this should be much easier .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can reuse tivo hardware.
I mean, you losers reuse your own asshole as a cock socket, so this should be much easier.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023252</id>
	<title>They call it Tivoization.</title>
	<author>Akir</author>
	<datestamp>1257705120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everyone knows that you can't do anything with a tivo. It may be using open-source software, but the hardware checks the software's checksum, and if it doesn't match, it simply doesn't run the software. If you remember, this is a major reason (if not the only reason) why Richard Stallman got all upset and created GPL v3.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everyone knows that you ca n't do anything with a tivo .
It may be using open-source software , but the hardware checks the software 's checksum , and if it does n't match , it simply does n't run the software .
If you remember , this is a major reason ( if not the only reason ) why Richard Stallman got all upset and created GPL v3 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everyone knows that you can't do anything with a tivo.
It may be using open-source software, but the hardware checks the software's checksum, and if it doesn't match, it simply doesn't run the software.
If you remember, this is a major reason (if not the only reason) why Richard Stallman got all upset and created GPL v3.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30036416</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257796740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>sounds like every other service in the world which requires relatively-specialized hardware... and none of those have this problem.<br>If TiVo just lets anyone anywhere dial in, send a "can I have TV listings?" request, and it responds to those requests with "ok, sure", they don't get to complain about people "stealing" their listings any more than a website can complain about someone adding<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/tomorrow.html to the end of a URL.</p><p>It's not stealing if the server says "you can have it" without you saying "I am bill gates, really"</p><p>And if you do need to say "I am bill gates, then the process involves more than flipping a bit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>sounds like every other service in the world which requires relatively-specialized hardware... and none of those have this problem.If TiVo just lets anyone anywhere dial in , send a " can I have TV listings ?
" request , and it responds to those requests with " ok , sure " , they do n't get to complain about people " stealing " their listings any more than a website can complain about someone adding /tomorrow.html to the end of a URL.It 's not stealing if the server says " you can have it " without you saying " I am bill gates , really " And if you do need to say " I am bill gates , then the process involves more than flipping a bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sounds like every other service in the world which requires relatively-specialized hardware... and none of those have this problem.If TiVo just lets anyone anywhere dial in, send a "can I have TV listings?
" request, and it responds to those requests with "ok, sure", they don't get to complain about people "stealing" their listings any more than a website can complain about someone adding /tomorrow.html to the end of a URL.It's not stealing if the server says "you can have it" without you saying "I am bill gates, really"And if you do need to say "I am bill gates, then the process involves more than flipping a bit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024350</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023500</id>
	<title>Re:The security cam recording might be easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257706500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's only true for the oldest, Series 1 TiVo's sold before a certain date.  After that, TiVo requires service.  No service, and no manual recording.</p><p>And, as I recall, it'll also nag you about the lack of service every time you go into the menus.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's only true for the oldest , Series 1 TiVo 's sold before a certain date .
After that , TiVo requires service .
No service , and no manual recording.And , as I recall , it 'll also nag you about the lack of service every time you go into the menus .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's only true for the oldest, Series 1 TiVo's sold before a certain date.
After that, TiVo requires service.
No service, and no manual recording.And, as I recall, it'll also nag you about the lack of service every time you go into the menus.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30036878</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257798720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They don't want you to record a show and then copy it off the box (say, to your PC, as an MPEG2 file, which can be burned to disc). Which explains the closed system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They do n't want you to record a show and then copy it off the box ( say , to your PC , as an MPEG2 file , which can be burned to disc ) .
Which explains the closed system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They don't want you to record a show and then copy it off the box (say, to your PC, as an MPEG2 file, which can be burned to disc).
Which explains the closed system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023972</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025378</id>
	<title>Re:Don't buy TIVO, or any other locked down device</title>
	<author>evilviper</author>
	<datestamp>1257676800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>You shouldn't be allowed to create an abomination like TIVO with open source.</p></div></blockquote><p>BSD is Open Source, and the license is perfectly fine with TIVO's business model.</p><p>The GPL is not Open Source, but "Free Software", Stallman's own term, hence the FSF.  In short, it tries to FORCE all software to be free, Open Source does not.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You should n't be allowed to create an abomination like TIVO with open source.BSD is Open Source , and the license is perfectly fine with TIVO 's business model.The GPL is not Open Source , but " Free Software " , Stallman 's own term , hence the FSF .
In short , it tries to FORCE all software to be free , Open Source does not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You shouldn't be allowed to create an abomination like TIVO with open source.BSD is Open Source, and the license is perfectly fine with TIVO's business model.The GPL is not Open Source, but "Free Software", Stallman's own term, hence the FSF.
In short, it tries to FORCE all software to be free, Open Source does not.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023202</id>
	<title>TiVO-IZATION</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257704820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't TiVO-ization one of the main reasons why the GPL was updated to v3?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't TiVO-ization one of the main reasons why the GPL was updated to v3 ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't TiVO-ization one of the main reasons why the GPL was updated to v3?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025068</id>
	<title>Re:Tried It</title>
	<author>Tony Hoyle</author>
	<datestamp>1257674460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I looked at it - we only have the S1 in this country and it's so slow and obsololete (single tuner, the generally rubbish video capture and no HD) - even though ironically its EPG is still years ahead of the competition due to Tivo's patent lock - I thought it might be an interesting project.  Problem is the CPU is about as fast as the average calculator (16Mhz MIPS IIRC) and the whole binary thing means you can't use anything other than the 2.1.24 kernel to it... so you can't update the userspace (since glibc is tied to the kernel version) and basically it's stuck being what it is.</p><p>I also hit the 'not paying tivo = theft' thing even though nobody in this country pays tivo any more - the remaining working tivos are pretty much all lifetime sub... and can be had for &pound;50 from ebay anyway so you'd be stupid to get a sub.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I looked at it - we only have the S1 in this country and it 's so slow and obsololete ( single tuner , the generally rubbish video capture and no HD ) - even though ironically its EPG is still years ahead of the competition due to Tivo 's patent lock - I thought it might be an interesting project .
Problem is the CPU is about as fast as the average calculator ( 16Mhz MIPS IIRC ) and the whole binary thing means you ca n't use anything other than the 2.1.24 kernel to it... so you ca n't update the userspace ( since glibc is tied to the kernel version ) and basically it 's stuck being what it is.I also hit the 'not paying tivo = theft ' thing even though nobody in this country pays tivo any more - the remaining working tivos are pretty much all lifetime sub... and can be had for   50 from ebay anyway so you 'd be stupid to get a sub .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I looked at it - we only have the S1 in this country and it's so slow and obsololete (single tuner, the generally rubbish video capture and no HD) - even though ironically its EPG is still years ahead of the competition due to Tivo's patent lock - I thought it might be an interesting project.
Problem is the CPU is about as fast as the average calculator (16Mhz MIPS IIRC) and the whole binary thing means you can't use anything other than the 2.1.24 kernel to it... so you can't update the userspace (since glibc is tied to the kernel version) and basically it's stuck being what it is.I also hit the 'not paying tivo = theft' thing even though nobody in this country pays tivo any more - the remaining working tivos are pretty much all lifetime sub... and can be had for £50 from ebay anyway so you'd be stupid to get a sub.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023180</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025058</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257674340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I ran into this exact same mentality when I started looking into satellite TV. I wanted a solution that I could roll myself, with DVR and the whole bit. It turns out that there's a popular video standard called DVB-S that almost all international satellite providers broadcast in. The hardware is cheap, the video and audio are plain MPEG2. There are lots of DVB tuner cards that go right in your PC and many of them even have Linux drivers.</p><p>The first problem I ran into is that whenever I went asking for information in satellite forums, I got yelled at. A lot. It turns out that there's a subculture of individuals in the satellite scene who trade information on cracking the encryption for Dish Network and some Canadian provider. Apparently these two networks use (or used to use?) standard DVB hardware and bolt some kind of weak encryption on top. Out of curiosity, I checked into this a little but and found that they were a pretty hypocritical group: they create tools and hardware to crack Dish Network's encryption so that they can watch premium TV for free, but have a huge problem with other people sharing the same information or cloning their work. One of the most popular forums actually charged a subscription fee for firmware updates to grey-market boxes. (The firmware updates contained "fixes" whenever Dish would change their encryption.)</p><p>The TL;DR summary: satellite crackers are about as far away from the actual hacker scene as you can get.</p><p>The second problem I ran into is that there's little genuinely free DVB content in the American hemisphere. Except for home shopping and religious channels, the NASA channel is about it. On the other side of the world, you have a lot more options. Once I found this out, I kinda lost interest in the whole thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ran into this exact same mentality when I started looking into satellite TV .
I wanted a solution that I could roll myself , with DVR and the whole bit .
It turns out that there 's a popular video standard called DVB-S that almost all international satellite providers broadcast in .
The hardware is cheap , the video and audio are plain MPEG2 .
There are lots of DVB tuner cards that go right in your PC and many of them even have Linux drivers.The first problem I ran into is that whenever I went asking for information in satellite forums , I got yelled at .
A lot .
It turns out that there 's a subculture of individuals in the satellite scene who trade information on cracking the encryption for Dish Network and some Canadian provider .
Apparently these two networks use ( or used to use ?
) standard DVB hardware and bolt some kind of weak encryption on top .
Out of curiosity , I checked into this a little but and found that they were a pretty hypocritical group : they create tools and hardware to crack Dish Network 's encryption so that they can watch premium TV for free , but have a huge problem with other people sharing the same information or cloning their work .
One of the most popular forums actually charged a subscription fee for firmware updates to grey-market boxes .
( The firmware updates contained " fixes " whenever Dish would change their encryption .
) The TL ; DR summary : satellite crackers are about as far away from the actual hacker scene as you can get.The second problem I ran into is that there 's little genuinely free DVB content in the American hemisphere .
Except for home shopping and religious channels , the NASA channel is about it .
On the other side of the world , you have a lot more options .
Once I found this out , I kinda lost interest in the whole thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I ran into this exact same mentality when I started looking into satellite TV.
I wanted a solution that I could roll myself, with DVR and the whole bit.
It turns out that there's a popular video standard called DVB-S that almost all international satellite providers broadcast in.
The hardware is cheap, the video and audio are plain MPEG2.
There are lots of DVB tuner cards that go right in your PC and many of them even have Linux drivers.The first problem I ran into is that whenever I went asking for information in satellite forums, I got yelled at.
A lot.
It turns out that there's a subculture of individuals in the satellite scene who trade information on cracking the encryption for Dish Network and some Canadian provider.
Apparently these two networks use (or used to use?
) standard DVB hardware and bolt some kind of weak encryption on top.
Out of curiosity, I checked into this a little but and found that they were a pretty hypocritical group: they create tools and hardware to crack Dish Network's encryption so that they can watch premium TV for free, but have a huge problem with other people sharing the same information or cloning their work.
One of the most popular forums actually charged a subscription fee for firmware updates to grey-market boxes.
(The firmware updates contained "fixes" whenever Dish would change their encryption.
)The TL;DR summary: satellite crackers are about as far away from the actual hacker scene as you can get.The second problem I ran into is that there's little genuinely free DVB content in the American hemisphere.
Except for home shopping and religious channels, the NASA channel is about it.
On the other side of the world, you have a lot more options.
Once I found this out, I kinda lost interest in the whole thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30026800</id>
	<title>Re:Don't buy TIVO, or any other locked down device</title>
	<author>Sir\_Lewk</author>
	<datestamp>1257686100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The GPL is considered both an Open Source License and a Free Software license.  This is one of those "a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square" situations.</p><p>To back up this statement, please note that <a href="http://www.opensource.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.php" title="opensource.org">the GNU GPL is an OSI approved open source license</a> [opensource.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The GPL is considered both an Open Source License and a Free Software license .
This is one of those " a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square " situations.To back up this statement , please note that the GNU GPL is an OSI approved open source license [ opensource.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The GPL is considered both an Open Source License and a Free Software license.
This is one of those "a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square" situations.To back up this statement, please note that the GNU GPL is an OSI approved open source license [opensource.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025378</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024236</id>
	<title>Don't buy TIVO, or any other locked down device</title>
	<author>syousef</author>
	<datestamp>1257712080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Don't "cheat" TIVO my arse. Aparently the defintion of cheat has become using something you own to do something you want to do. If they have a business model that subsides the hardware, why is that anyone else's problem?</p><p>Seriously, why do people buy a locked down piece of hardware, then wonder why they can't do anything that hasn't specifically been authorised with it? Your solution starts with not buying the damn product in the first place!!!</p><p>Stallman may be a crazy loon that I don't want representing me, but in this particular case he's absolutely right. You shouldn't be allowed to create an abomination like TIVO with open source.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't " cheat " TIVO my arse .
Aparently the defintion of cheat has become using something you own to do something you want to do .
If they have a business model that subsides the hardware , why is that anyone else 's problem ? Seriously , why do people buy a locked down piece of hardware , then wonder why they ca n't do anything that has n't specifically been authorised with it ?
Your solution starts with not buying the damn product in the first place ! !
! Stallman may be a crazy loon that I do n't want representing me , but in this particular case he 's absolutely right .
You should n't be allowed to create an abomination like TIVO with open source .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't "cheat" TIVO my arse.
Aparently the defintion of cheat has become using something you own to do something you want to do.
If they have a business model that subsides the hardware, why is that anyone else's problem?Seriously, why do people buy a locked down piece of hardware, then wonder why they can't do anything that hasn't specifically been authorised with it?
Your solution starts with not buying the damn product in the first place!!
!Stallman may be a crazy loon that I don't want representing me, but in this particular case he's absolutely right.
You shouldn't be allowed to create an abomination like TIVO with open source.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023252</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025396</id>
	<title>Re:Don't buy TIVO, or any other locked down device</title>
	<author>justinmikehunt</author>
	<datestamp>1257676980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree completely.

I don't see what the difference is between owning a tivo, without using the tivo service, and owning a cell phone and having it unlocked and using on a different carrier...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree completely .
I do n't see what the difference is between owning a tivo , without using the tivo service , and owning a cell phone and having it unlocked and using on a different carrier.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree completely.
I don't see what the difference is between owning a tivo, without using the tivo service, and owning a cell phone and having it unlocked and using on a different carrier...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024236</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023972</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257709800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Okay, I admit right off that I am unfamiliar with TiVo aside from what I've heard mentioned on TV. I don't have a tivo, I don't plan on getting a tivo, I've never actually looked into it.</p><p>However, I was under the strong impression that TiVo was a DVR. How can one "crack" or "rip off" a DVR? What does a TiVo provide which would be something that, if one were able to re-flash a TiVo, "crackers" would be able to use to some disadvantage to TiVo? Is TiVo cracking something which is actually done? What benefits does it have? What makes it "bad" as opposed to just "bad for the company that wants you to keep using its software"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , I admit right off that I am unfamiliar with TiVo aside from what I 've heard mentioned on TV .
I do n't have a tivo , I do n't plan on getting a tivo , I 've never actually looked into it.However , I was under the strong impression that TiVo was a DVR .
How can one " crack " or " rip off " a DVR ?
What does a TiVo provide which would be something that , if one were able to re-flash a TiVo , " crackers " would be able to use to some disadvantage to TiVo ?
Is TiVo cracking something which is actually done ?
What benefits does it have ?
What makes it " bad " as opposed to just " bad for the company that wants you to keep using its software " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, I admit right off that I am unfamiliar with TiVo aside from what I've heard mentioned on TV.
I don't have a tivo, I don't plan on getting a tivo, I've never actually looked into it.However, I was under the strong impression that TiVo was a DVR.
How can one "crack" or "rip off" a DVR?
What does a TiVo provide which would be something that, if one were able to re-flash a TiVo, "crackers" would be able to use to some disadvantage to TiVo?
Is TiVo cracking something which is actually done?
What benefits does it have?
What makes it "bad" as opposed to just "bad for the company that wants you to keep using its software"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30037758</id>
	<title>Re:The security cam recording might be easy</title>
	<author>Chapter80</author>
	<datestamp>1257759240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you're a Linux hacker, you should be able to set up a machine next to the Tivo, connected to the internet, and getting schedule data from SchedulesDirect.  Then with a little code, and an IR blaster, you could browse the TV guide, and press record, and watch your Linux machine program your Tivo.</p><p>Maybe even write a GreaseMonkey Script that browses TV Guide.com or TimeWarner's TV schedule, or whatever.  And when you click on a show, blast the InfraRed programming instructions to the DVR.</p><p>There's a good project for you!  (or just buy a video card and run MythTV)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're a Linux hacker , you should be able to set up a machine next to the Tivo , connected to the internet , and getting schedule data from SchedulesDirect .
Then with a little code , and an IR blaster , you could browse the TV guide , and press record , and watch your Linux machine program your Tivo.Maybe even write a GreaseMonkey Script that browses TV Guide.com or TimeWarner 's TV schedule , or whatever .
And when you click on a show , blast the InfraRed programming instructions to the DVR.There 's a good project for you !
( or just buy a video card and run MythTV )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're a Linux hacker, you should be able to set up a machine next to the Tivo, connected to the internet, and getting schedule data from SchedulesDirect.
Then with a little code, and an IR blaster, you could browse the TV guide, and press record, and watch your Linux machine program your Tivo.Maybe even write a GreaseMonkey Script that browses TV Guide.com or TimeWarner's TV schedule, or whatever.
And when you click on a show, blast the InfraRed programming instructions to the DVR.There's a good project for you!
(or just buy a video card and run MythTV)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023180</id>
	<title>Tried It</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257704700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow.  I tried it, and the best answer I found was "don't bother".  I figured that since the thing runs Linux, it'd be easy enough to repurpose.  Boy was I wrong.  I'd like to say that I enjoyed messing with it anyway, but the truth is, it was just a pain.  All of the important drivers are wrapped up in a huge binary blob, and unusable without the TiVO software.  A TiVO is worthless as pretty much anything but a TiVO, unfortunately.  Maybe you're a lot smarter than me (a quite distinct possibility), but I didn't get anywhere.  If you decide to go ahead anyway, I wish you luck, and a lot more success than I had.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow .
I tried it , and the best answer I found was " do n't bother " .
I figured that since the thing runs Linux , it 'd be easy enough to repurpose .
Boy was I wrong .
I 'd like to say that I enjoyed messing with it anyway , but the truth is , it was just a pain .
All of the important drivers are wrapped up in a huge binary blob , and unusable without the TiVO software .
A TiVO is worthless as pretty much anything but a TiVO , unfortunately .
Maybe you 're a lot smarter than me ( a quite distinct possibility ) , but I did n't get anywhere .
If you decide to go ahead anyway , I wish you luck , and a lot more success than I had .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow.
I tried it, and the best answer I found was "don't bother".
I figured that since the thing runs Linux, it'd be easy enough to repurpose.
Boy was I wrong.
I'd like to say that I enjoyed messing with it anyway, but the truth is, it was just a pain.
All of the important drivers are wrapped up in a huge binary blob, and unusable without the TiVO software.
A TiVO is worthless as pretty much anything but a TiVO, unfortunately.
Maybe you're a lot smarter than me (a quite distinct possibility), but I didn't get anywhere.
If you decide to go ahead anyway, I wish you luck, and a lot more success than I had.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30028550</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Grishnakh</author>
	<datestamp>1257699480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe I'm missing something, but how could anyone even use older TiVo hardware for its intended purpose?  If the only signals they understand is standard NTSC, those are now obsolete, as NTSC has been shut off and all stations are now ATSC.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe I 'm missing something , but how could anyone even use older TiVo hardware for its intended purpose ?
If the only signals they understand is standard NTSC , those are now obsolete , as NTSC has been shut off and all stations are now ATSC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe I'm missing something, but how could anyone even use older TiVo hardware for its intended purpose?
If the only signals they understand is standard NTSC, those are now obsolete, as NTSC has been shut off and all stations are now ATSC.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30029376</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Vellmont</author>
	<datestamp>1257708540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i><br>The reason you are being rebuked every time you try to do this is because it's exactly the same sort of thing that the crackers use.<br></i><br>Who are these "the crackers"?  Are they related to "the terrorists"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason you are being rebuked every time you try to do this is because it 's exactly the same sort of thing that the crackers use.Who are these " the crackers " ?
Are they related to " the terrorists " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason you are being rebuked every time you try to do this is because it's exactly the same sort of thing that the crackers use.Who are these "the crackers"?
Are they related to "the terrorists"?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025042</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>Monolith1</author>
	<datestamp>1257674280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>unless you go and hang around with the cracker crowd, which may not be the sort of associations you really want to make</p></div><p>Who let this guy in here!!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>unless you go and hang around with the cracker crowd , which may not be the sort of associations you really want to makeWho let this guy in here !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>unless you go and hang around with the cracker crowd, which may not be the sort of associations you really want to makeWho let this guy in here!
!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023876</id>
	<title>Re:The security cam recording might be easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257709020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>my tivo won't do that ,  all that it will do is allow a 30 minute pause</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>my tivo wo n't do that , all that it will do is allow a 30 minute pause</tokentext>
<sentencetext>my tivo won't do that ,  all that it will do is allow a 30 minute pause</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023254</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024818</id>
	<title>Re:The security cam recording might be easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257672660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does that mean Tivo (it's new here) are going to eventually REMOVE features they're offering here down under!?</p><p>http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/tivo-partners-with-bad-boy-isp-telstraclear-sticks-with-sky-tv-114659</p><p>"TiVo, by contrast, already lets its users view almost any unportected photo or video or music content held on their PC on their TV, via a wi-fi connection - or copy TiVo content to a PC, PlayStation3 or iPhone."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does that mean Tivo ( it 's new here ) are going to eventually REMOVE features they 're offering here down under !
? http : //www.nbr.co.nz/article/tivo-partners-with-bad-boy-isp-telstraclear-sticks-with-sky-tv-114659 " TiVo , by contrast , already lets its users view almost any unportected photo or video or music content held on their PC on their TV , via a wi-fi connection - or copy TiVo content to a PC , PlayStation3 or iPhone .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does that mean Tivo (it's new here) are going to eventually REMOVE features they're offering here down under!
?http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/tivo-partners-with-bad-boy-isp-telstraclear-sticks-with-sky-tv-114659"TiVo, by contrast, already lets its users view almost any unportected photo or video or music content held on their PC on their TV, via a wi-fi connection - or copy TiVo content to a PC, PlayStation3 or iPhone.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023570</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024364</id>
	<title>Re:Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to ab</title>
	<author>moxley</author>
	<datestamp>1257713100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think maybe you didn't get what he was asking.</p><p>He isn't asking to "cheat Tivo" or use their service with the box when he is done......He's simply wanting to repurpose the hardware - the attitude that there is something wrong with this seems very out of place around here.</p><p>I could understand if he said he was trying to bypass paying for Tivo, or was somehow going to try to take advantage of the service in some way that isn't kosher; but no, that's not the deal - he just doesn't want to throw away what amounts to a computer...</p><p>I'm fairly interested in this as I have 2 series 2 tivos just laying around, they work fine and I would feel very wasteful just throwing them away......</p><p>
&nbsp; - I upgraded to the series 3 (and I like it, and have been happy with the company as well as after I purchased a new HDTV I called them and told that I had owned 2 series 2's and wasn't about to pay $300 or more for an HD box, the deal they gave me was probably one of the best retention offers I've ever received from a company - not only did I get an HDbox for next to nothing, I got several months free and monthly fee reduction of over 40\% for life)...</p><p>So I wouldn't ever advocate screwing them - but using perfectly good hardware for your own purposes (when it doesn't rip anyone off)  rather than trashing it is something everyone should support - it's the sort of thinking I feel like a lot more people need to get with given the rampant consumerism and it's impact of the world and that people in it....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think maybe you did n't get what he was asking.He is n't asking to " cheat Tivo " or use their service with the box when he is done......He 's simply wanting to repurpose the hardware - the attitude that there is something wrong with this seems very out of place around here.I could understand if he said he was trying to bypass paying for Tivo , or was somehow going to try to take advantage of the service in some way that is n't kosher ; but no , that 's not the deal - he just does n't want to throw away what amounts to a computer...I 'm fairly interested in this as I have 2 series 2 tivos just laying around , they work fine and I would feel very wasteful just throwing them away..... .   - I upgraded to the series 3 ( and I like it , and have been happy with the company as well as after I purchased a new HDTV I called them and told that I had owned 2 series 2 's and was n't about to pay $ 300 or more for an HD box , the deal they gave me was probably one of the best retention offers I 've ever received from a company - not only did I get an HDbox for next to nothing , I got several months free and monthly fee reduction of over 40 \ % for life ) ...So I would n't ever advocate screwing them - but using perfectly good hardware for your own purposes ( when it does n't rip anyone off ) rather than trashing it is something everyone should support - it 's the sort of thinking I feel like a lot more people need to get with given the rampant consumerism and it 's impact of the world and that people in it... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think maybe you didn't get what he was asking.He isn't asking to "cheat Tivo" or use their service with the box when he is done......He's simply wanting to repurpose the hardware - the attitude that there is something wrong with this seems very out of place around here.I could understand if he said he was trying to bypass paying for Tivo, or was somehow going to try to take advantage of the service in some way that isn't kosher; but no, that's not the deal - he just doesn't want to throw away what amounts to a computer...I'm fairly interested in this as I have 2 series 2 tivos just laying around, they work fine and I would feel very wasteful just throwing them away......
  - I upgraded to the series 3 (and I like it, and have been happy with the company as well as after I purchased a new HDTV I called them and told that I had owned 2 series 2's and wasn't about to pay $300 or more for an HD box, the deal they gave me was probably one of the best retention offers I've ever received from a company - not only did I get an HDbox for next to nothing, I got several months free and monthly fee reduction of over 40\% for life)...So I wouldn't ever advocate screwing them - but using perfectly good hardware for your own purposes (when it doesn't rip anyone off)  rather than trashing it is something everyone should support - it's the sort of thinking I feel like a lot more people need to get with given the rampant consumerism and it's impact of the world and that people in it....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30036630</id>
	<title>Re:The security cam recording might be easy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257797760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly. I have a later version series 1, and without guide data, it's a boat anchor. I've tried to tinker with it enough to know that if you are smart enough to get it to work, there are better uses for your time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly .
I have a later version series 1 , and without guide data , it 's a boat anchor .
I 've tried to tinker with it enough to know that if you are smart enough to get it to work , there are better uses for your time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly.
I have a later version series 1, and without guide data, it's a boat anchor.
I've tried to tinker with it enough to know that if you are smart enough to get it to work, there are better uses for your time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023500</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220</id>
	<title>Sorry, what you're asking for is too easy to abuse</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257704940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The reason you are being rebuked every time you try to do this is because it's exactly the same sort of thing that the crackers use.  Even if your use is legitimate, you won't find anybody willing to give you much help unless you go and hang around with the cracker crowd, which may not be the sort of associations you really want to make.  What you're asking for shouldn't be impossible, but it won't be easy either.  Getting a basic kernel running may not be too bad since Tivo released their kernel modifications back to the community, but using the hardware on the system probably won't be the easiest thing unless you're really lucky and there is already a driver for it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason you are being rebuked every time you try to do this is because it 's exactly the same sort of thing that the crackers use .
Even if your use is legitimate , you wo n't find anybody willing to give you much help unless you go and hang around with the cracker crowd , which may not be the sort of associations you really want to make .
What you 're asking for should n't be impossible , but it wo n't be easy either .
Getting a basic kernel running may not be too bad since Tivo released their kernel modifications back to the community , but using the hardware on the system probably wo n't be the easiest thing unless you 're really lucky and there is already a driver for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason you are being rebuked every time you try to do this is because it's exactly the same sort of thing that the crackers use.
Even if your use is legitimate, you won't find anybody willing to give you much help unless you go and hang around with the cracker crowd, which may not be the sort of associations you really want to make.
What you're asking for shouldn't be impossible, but it won't be easy either.
Getting a basic kernel running may not be too bad since Tivo released their kernel modifications back to the community, but using the hardware on the system probably won't be the easiest thing unless you're really lucky and there is already a driver for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024364
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30042180
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024350
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023972
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024818
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023570
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023254
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30028602
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023252
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025396
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024236
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023252
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30029060
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024236
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023252
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30036630
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023500
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023254
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30029376
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30028538
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30036878
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023972
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024268
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023696
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023876
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023254
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025068
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023180
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025042
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30033914
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023180
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025058
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30037758
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023254
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30036416
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024350
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023972
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30028550
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_11_08_1659227_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30026800
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025378
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024236
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023252
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_08_1659227.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023140
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_08_1659227.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023220
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30028538
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30028550
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023696
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024268
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023972
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30036878
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024350
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30042180
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30036416
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025058
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024364
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30029376
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025042
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_08_1659227.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023252
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30028602
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024236
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025396
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025378
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30026800
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30029060
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_08_1659227.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023180
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30033914
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30025068
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_08_1659227.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023254
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30037758
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023570
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30024818
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023876
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023500
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30036630
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_08_1659227.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023210
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_08_1659227.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_08_1659227.30023202
</commentlist>
</conversation>
