<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_06_1755216</id>
	<title>Drupal Multimedia</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1257501000000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.ross.ws/" rel="nofollow">Michael J. Ross</a> writes <i>"Of the leading content management systems used by developers for creating websites, <a href="http://drupal.org/">Drupal</a> is highly regarded for many characteristics, including a much smaller initial footprint, compared to Joomla and other CMSs.  Yet some developers find this a disadvantage as well, because one of the most common criticisms leveled against Drupal is its lack of built-in support for images and multimedia elements &mdash; thereby forcing new Drupal developers to choose from the thousands of contributed Drupal modules those that would be optimal for implementing their websites' multimedia functionality.  Aaron Winborn's book <em>Drupal Multimedia</em> is intended as a guide to help such developers."</i> Keep reading for the rest of Michael's review.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Michael J. Ross writes " Of the leading content management systems used by developers for creating websites , Drupal is highly regarded for many characteristics , including a much smaller initial footprint , compared to Joomla and other CMSs .
Yet some developers find this a disadvantage as well , because one of the most common criticisms leveled against Drupal is its lack of built-in support for images and multimedia elements    thereby forcing new Drupal developers to choose from the thousands of contributed Drupal modules those that would be optimal for implementing their websites ' multimedia functionality .
Aaron Winborn 's book Drupal Multimedia is intended as a guide to help such developers .
" Keep reading for the rest of Michael 's review .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Michael J. Ross writes "Of the leading content management systems used by developers for creating websites, Drupal is highly regarded for many characteristics, including a much smaller initial footprint, compared to Joomla and other CMSs.
Yet some developers find this a disadvantage as well, because one of the most common criticisms leveled against Drupal is its lack of built-in support for images and multimedia elements — thereby forcing new Drupal developers to choose from the thousands of contributed Drupal modules those that would be optimal for implementing their websites' multimedia functionality.
Aaron Winborn's book Drupal Multimedia is intended as a guide to help such developers.
" Keep reading for the rest of Michael's review.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011944</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>gobbo</author>
	<datestamp>1257519660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Can somebody <i>please</i> develop a CMS for people <i>without</i> Asperger's ?!</p></div><p>For small projects: <a href="http://madebyfrog.com/" title="madebyfrog.com">FrogCMS</a> [madebyfrog.com].</p><p>For blogs: wordpress.</p><p>For other, more complex sites, try <a href="http://expressionengine.com/" title="expressionengine.com">ExpressionEngine</a> [expressionengine.com].</p><p>For galleries, zenphoto.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger 's ?
! For small projects : FrogCMS [ madebyfrog.com ] .For blogs : wordpress.For other , more complex sites , try ExpressionEngine [ expressionengine.com ] .For galleries , zenphoto .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger's ?
!For small projects: FrogCMS [madebyfrog.com].For blogs: wordpress.For other, more complex sites, try ExpressionEngine [expressionengine.com].For galleries, zenphoto.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012004</id>
	<title>Weird timing</title>
	<author>blakhol</author>
	<datestamp>1257520440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This book was great when it came out. Over a year ago. Strange to get such a late review of a book. Fortunately a lot of things are still accurate, and Drupal 6 has been the main release during this entire time, but sheesh. The contributed modules have improved a lot since then.</p><p>As far as Drupal itself goes, it's great. Yesterday my boss asked me to put together a secure site where a select group of people could discuss the upcoming budget cuts. The site needed to be attractive, secure, support single signon (integrating with our existing directory), restricted to one group of users, allow optional anonymity of posters (after authentication), and allow users to subscribe to threads.</p><p>Starting from scratch, I had it all done in an hour an twenty minutes with Drupal (plus the hidden author, subscriptions, pubcookie, pubcookie site access, secure pages, and views modules).</p><p>There seems to be a great deal of frustration and outright ignorance about how Drupal works in the postings above. If you want to be able to wield a complex weapon like Drupal, try the following resources.</p><p>For examples on how to create common types of sites using popular, well-supported modules: <a href="http://www.usingdrupal.com/" title="usingdrupal.com" rel="nofollow">Using Drupal</a> [usingdrupal.com], O'Reilly</p><p>If you're a designer working with Drupal and want to understand how to work with it: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&amp;location=http\%3A\%2F\%2Fwww.amazon.com\%2Fo\%2FASIN\%2F0137136692&amp;tag=drupal0a-20&amp;link" title="amazon.com" rel="nofollow">Front End Drupal</a> [amazon.com], Prentice Hall</p><p>If you're a coder and want to know how Drupal works internally: <a href="http://www.drupalbook.com/" title="drupalbook.com" rel="nofollow">Pro Drupal Development</a> [drupalbook.com], Apress</p><p>If you're not a book reader but like watching videos, pretty much anything put out by <a href="http://lullabot.com/" title="lullabot.com" rel="nofollow">Lullabot</a> [lullabot.com]</p><p>If you're not a coder or designer but a power user who has to deal with Drupal's admittedly byzantine administrative interface: <a href="http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-6-content-administration/book" title="packtpub.com" rel="nofollow">Drupal 6 Content Administration</a> [packtpub.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This book was great when it came out .
Over a year ago .
Strange to get such a late review of a book .
Fortunately a lot of things are still accurate , and Drupal 6 has been the main release during this entire time , but sheesh .
The contributed modules have improved a lot since then.As far as Drupal itself goes , it 's great .
Yesterday my boss asked me to put together a secure site where a select group of people could discuss the upcoming budget cuts .
The site needed to be attractive , secure , support single signon ( integrating with our existing directory ) , restricted to one group of users , allow optional anonymity of posters ( after authentication ) , and allow users to subscribe to threads.Starting from scratch , I had it all done in an hour an twenty minutes with Drupal ( plus the hidden author , subscriptions , pubcookie , pubcookie site access , secure pages , and views modules ) .There seems to be a great deal of frustration and outright ignorance about how Drupal works in the postings above .
If you want to be able to wield a complex weapon like Drupal , try the following resources.For examples on how to create common types of sites using popular , well-supported modules : Using Drupal [ usingdrupal.com ] , O'ReillyIf you 're a designer working with Drupal and want to understand how to work with it : Front End Drupal [ amazon.com ] , Prentice HallIf you 're a coder and want to know how Drupal works internally : Pro Drupal Development [ drupalbook.com ] , ApressIf you 're not a book reader but like watching videos , pretty much anything put out by Lullabot [ lullabot.com ] If you 're not a coder or designer but a power user who has to deal with Drupal 's admittedly byzantine administrative interface : Drupal 6 Content Administration [ packtpub.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This book was great when it came out.
Over a year ago.
Strange to get such a late review of a book.
Fortunately a lot of things are still accurate, and Drupal 6 has been the main release during this entire time, but sheesh.
The contributed modules have improved a lot since then.As far as Drupal itself goes, it's great.
Yesterday my boss asked me to put together a secure site where a select group of people could discuss the upcoming budget cuts.
The site needed to be attractive, secure, support single signon (integrating with our existing directory), restricted to one group of users, allow optional anonymity of posters (after authentication), and allow users to subscribe to threads.Starting from scratch, I had it all done in an hour an twenty minutes with Drupal (plus the hidden author, subscriptions, pubcookie, pubcookie site access, secure pages, and views modules).There seems to be a great deal of frustration and outright ignorance about how Drupal works in the postings above.
If you want to be able to wield a complex weapon like Drupal, try the following resources.For examples on how to create common types of sites using popular, well-supported modules: Using Drupal [usingdrupal.com], O'ReillyIf you're a designer working with Drupal and want to understand how to work with it: Front End Drupal [amazon.com], Prentice HallIf you're a coder and want to know how Drupal works internally: Pro Drupal Development [drupalbook.com], ApressIf you're not a book reader but like watching videos, pretty much anything put out by Lullabot [lullabot.com]If you're not a coder or designer but a power user who has to deal with Drupal's admittedly byzantine administrative interface: Drupal 6 Content Administration [packtpub.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011076</id>
	<title>On a related note..</title>
	<author>RichardJenkins</author>
	<datestamp>1257510000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Has anyone used/liked/hated DjangoCMS?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone used/liked/hated DjangoCMS ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone used/liked/hated DjangoCMS?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010826</id>
	<title>Re:Don't use Drupal. It's a piece of shit.</title>
	<author>criznach</author>
	<datestamp>1257507840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm a Drupal consultant, and I wish you would have called me or one of my colleagues.  I would agree that if you attempted to scale Drupal to a moderate to large size with no prior experience, you will probably fall on your face.  Drupal has evolved into something that works quite well for small sites on shared hosting.  It does work for large sites, but it's not easy.  There are dozens of optimizations that you didn't mention trying.

It's not a piece of shit.  You just failed to make it work.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a Drupal consultant , and I wish you would have called me or one of my colleagues .
I would agree that if you attempted to scale Drupal to a moderate to large size with no prior experience , you will probably fall on your face .
Drupal has evolved into something that works quite well for small sites on shared hosting .
It does work for large sites , but it 's not easy .
There are dozens of optimizations that you did n't mention trying .
It 's not a piece of shit .
You just failed to make it work .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a Drupal consultant, and I wish you would have called me or one of my colleagues.
I would agree that if you attempted to scale Drupal to a moderate to large size with no prior experience, you will probably fall on your face.
Drupal has evolved into something that works quite well for small sites on shared hosting.
It does work for large sites, but it's not easy.
There are dozens of optimizations that you didn't mention trying.
It's not a piece of shit.
You just failed to make it work.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30061788</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>ricwesley</author>
	<datestamp>1257097320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hmn.. still it was something informative when topics shift to such professional website developer.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmn.. still it was something informative when topics shift to such professional website developer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmn.. still it was something informative when topics shift to such professional website developer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010638</id>
	<title>PHP sucks</title>
	<author>BitHive</author>
	<datestamp>1257506760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Drupal is for scrubs</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Drupal is for scrubs</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Drupal is for scrubs</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30016188</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal ? Spare me.</title>
	<author>itzfritz</author>
	<datestamp>1257625620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> to abandond the entire "but we want to be compatible with all databases" whine, and decide on ONE database, which they use CORRECTLY and EFFICIENTLY. I'm sorry, but nearly a hundred queries for a single pageview is not acceptable. Please decide on an optimum technology stack and use it efficiently; and publish both the optimum stack and a fully patched, efficient version of the code specifically for large-scale deployments.</p></div><p>Check out Pressflow, a mysql-optimized "fork" (more like a "distro", really) of Drupal, created and supported by a reputable and widely-known Drupal consulting firm..</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>to abandond the entire " but we want to be compatible with all databases " whine , and decide on ONE database , which they use CORRECTLY and EFFICIENTLY .
I 'm sorry , but nearly a hundred queries for a single pageview is not acceptable .
Please decide on an optimum technology stack and use it efficiently ; and publish both the optimum stack and a fully patched , efficient version of the code specifically for large-scale deployments.Check out Pressflow , a mysql-optimized " fork " ( more like a " distro " , really ) of Drupal , created and supported by a reputable and widely-known Drupal consulting firm. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> to abandond the entire "but we want to be compatible with all databases" whine, and decide on ONE database, which they use CORRECTLY and EFFICIENTLY.
I'm sorry, but nearly a hundred queries for a single pageview is not acceptable.
Please decide on an optimum technology stack and use it efficiently; and publish both the optimum stack and a fully patched, efficient version of the code specifically for large-scale deployments.Check out Pressflow, a mysql-optimized "fork" (more like a "distro", really) of Drupal, created and supported by a reputable and widely-known Drupal consulting firm..
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30013836</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012308</id>
	<title>Re:Don't use Drupal. It's a piece of shit.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257525720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So we should have had to pay thousands of dollars in "Drupal consultant" fees just to get a working installation? Fuck that.</p><p>Our CIO bought the ASP.NET CMS for a mere $150. He had one of his peons install it on an existing server and configure it in under 2 hours ($100 of salary, at most). It has worked fine since then.</p><p>I don't think you could have done the same for less than $250.</p><p>The main "selling" point of Drupal is that it's free, and has a lot of plugins available for it. Yet if we need to get a consultant in, that pretty much negates the first benefit it offers. And if most of the plugins are pure shit, that negates the second reason to use it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So we should have had to pay thousands of dollars in " Drupal consultant " fees just to get a working installation ?
Fuck that.Our CIO bought the ASP.NET CMS for a mere $ 150 .
He had one of his peons install it on an existing server and configure it in under 2 hours ( $ 100 of salary , at most ) .
It has worked fine since then.I do n't think you could have done the same for less than $ 250.The main " selling " point of Drupal is that it 's free , and has a lot of plugins available for it .
Yet if we need to get a consultant in , that pretty much negates the first benefit it offers .
And if most of the plugins are pure shit , that negates the second reason to use it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So we should have had to pay thousands of dollars in "Drupal consultant" fees just to get a working installation?
Fuck that.Our CIO bought the ASP.NET CMS for a mere $150.
He had one of his peons install it on an existing server and configure it in under 2 hours ($100 of salary, at most).
It has worked fine since then.I don't think you could have done the same for less than $250.The main "selling" point of Drupal is that it's free, and has a lot of plugins available for it.
Yet if we need to get a consultant in, that pretty much negates the first benefit it offers.
And if most of the plugins are pure shit, that negates the second reason to use it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010826</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012172</id>
	<title>Re:Seriously, 264 Pages?!?!?</title>
	<author>TheModelEskimo</author>
	<datestamp>1257523680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here's my take: You've got to have a healthy dose of geek in ya to implement a decent site in Drupal. So a bunch of non-designer geeks are out there implementing these sites. Then Jenny from marketing totally goes all extrovert on the programming team in a development meeting, and tells them they need multimedia. OH CRAP, they think. We can do DBs, PHP, Apache, whatever. But multimedia?<br> <br>Anyway, that's my take...better try this niche than "10 Days to a Drooplier Drupal!!!" etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's my take : You 've got to have a healthy dose of geek in ya to implement a decent site in Drupal .
So a bunch of non-designer geeks are out there implementing these sites .
Then Jenny from marketing totally goes all extrovert on the programming team in a development meeting , and tells them they need multimedia .
OH CRAP , they think .
We can do DBs , PHP , Apache , whatever .
But multimedia ?
Anyway , that 's my take...better try this niche than " 10 Days to a Drooplier Drupal ! ! !
" etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's my take: You've got to have a healthy dose of geek in ya to implement a decent site in Drupal.
So a bunch of non-designer geeks are out there implementing these sites.
Then Jenny from marketing totally goes all extrovert on the programming team in a development meeting, and tells them they need multimedia.
OH CRAP, they think.
We can do DBs, PHP, Apache, whatever.
But multimedia?
Anyway, that's my take...better try this niche than "10 Days to a Drooplier Drupal!!!
" etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30014616</id>
	<title>heres my take</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257614040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>People who have no experience with anything other than hotmail or google need some kind of base, the ability to NOT spend thousands of dollars every time they need their site altered.

I like working with drupal because it is easy, unless you are completely in the dark.  Learning is good, sometimes it can be a "waist of time" but at least your brain isn't rotting.</htmltext>
<tokenext>People who have no experience with anything other than hotmail or google need some kind of base , the ability to NOT spend thousands of dollars every time they need their site altered .
I like working with drupal because it is easy , unless you are completely in the dark .
Learning is good , sometimes it can be a " waist of time " but at least your brain is n't rotting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People who have no experience with anything other than hotmail or google need some kind of base, the ability to NOT spend thousands of dollars every time they need their site altered.
I like working with drupal because it is easy, unless you are completely in the dark.
Learning is good, sometimes it can be a "waist of time" but at least your brain isn't rotting.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011382</id>
	<title>Drupal is not that hard...</title>
	<author>future assassin</author>
	<datestamp>1257512640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>and this comes from someone who knows next to nothing about php or any other programming language. Setting up a small site/community site is pretty easy and you don;t need a book, you read the forums. NOW I will say this that multi user multimedia control or say a photo gallery is a fucking chore to set up and eventually you just give up<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.There are a few promising modules like Node Gallery and one of the better ones Acid Free Albums which isn't even maintained anymore.</htmltext>
<tokenext>and this comes from someone who knows next to nothing about php or any other programming language .
Setting up a small site/community site is pretty easy and you don ; t need a book , you read the forums .
NOW I will say this that multi user multimedia control or say a photo gallery is a fucking chore to set up and eventually you just give up .There are a few promising modules like Node Gallery and one of the better ones Acid Free Albums which is n't even maintained anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and this comes from someone who knows next to nothing about php or any other programming language.
Setting up a small site/community site is pretty easy and you don;t need a book, you read the forums.
NOW I will say this that multi user multimedia control or say a photo gallery is a fucking chore to set up and eventually you just give up .There are a few promising modules like Node Gallery and one of the better ones Acid Free Albums which isn't even maintained anymore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30014032</id>
	<title>Some sunlight</title>
	<author>Bozovision</author>
	<datestamp>1257605400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I do see a lack of civility in your posts, but not much information.</p><p>Drupal does claim to be modular. It doesn't often claim to be simple, unless you are only using a few core modules, perhaps in the default install, for instance, to make a blog. In the base install it \_is\_ less polished than, say, Wordpress. But it does more. I'm not sure how you measure intuitivity - what's intuitive for one person isn't necessarily, for another.</p><p>I don't know what you mean by 'Behavours are inconsistent across themes'. Isn't the point of themes to bring individualism to your Drupal installation? Doesn't that by definition mean that different themes will do different things?</p><p>Regarding 'Half the available themes are broken'. I have no idea where you get this statistic. I do know that if you install a Drupal 5 theme on a Drupal 6 installation, it will most likely not work. Perhaps that's what you did?</p><p>Regarding 'Not supporting things off the bat'. Again, I'm not sure what you want? By default Drupal 6 supports posting stories, pages, blogging, aggregating content from feeds, hierarchically structured collections of pages, comments on any content, contact forms, multilingual sites, forums, login with OpenID, polls, clean URLs, content categorisation, registered user profiles,  searching, basic statistics tracking, and user uploads. Amongst other things. I'm not sure what else you would like a CMS to do as in the basic installation.</p><p>Regarding 'Enabling the modules requires manual downloads and dependency hells.'. Yes, in most installations you have to manually download and enable modules. This makes it more secure. Modules list their requirements and will not allow you to enable them unless their dependencies are also available. I'm not sure how this is 'hell'? Surely it's sensible not to allow a module to be enabled if it's guaranteed to break?</p><p>Regarding 'The notion of using the site as you build it is shit,' On the other hand, eating your own dogfood is a very good way of being sure that your users will enjoy the site you are building.Usually one would put the site into maintenance mode, but this isn't required. But again, if you don't like to use what your users use, you ARE able to use an admin theme. If you are building a larger site, it's not recommended practice to work on the live site. I have no idea what you mean about  'just writing your own CSS'.</p><p>'The only people who are willing to waste the time to understand Drupal enough...are those...chasing buzzwords...'  Drupal is not for everyone. It's definitely not perfect; it's a large, rapidly growing system, which is being improved as it grows. Quality outside of the core is variable, as you would expect. It doesn't solve every problem, despite having around 5,000 modules available, spread across Drupal 5 and 6; clearly it didn't suit you, although it is fine for hundreds of thousands of other users. I don't know what problem you were trying to solve, but there are many CMS out there, and I'd recommend you start by investigating Sharepoint.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do see a lack of civility in your posts , but not much information.Drupal does claim to be modular .
It does n't often claim to be simple , unless you are only using a few core modules , perhaps in the default install , for instance , to make a blog .
In the base install it \ _is \ _ less polished than , say , Wordpress .
But it does more .
I 'm not sure how you measure intuitivity - what 's intuitive for one person is n't necessarily , for another.I do n't know what you mean by 'Behavours are inconsistent across themes' .
Is n't the point of themes to bring individualism to your Drupal installation ?
Does n't that by definition mean that different themes will do different things ? Regarding 'Half the available themes are broken' .
I have no idea where you get this statistic .
I do know that if you install a Drupal 5 theme on a Drupal 6 installation , it will most likely not work .
Perhaps that 's what you did ? Regarding 'Not supporting things off the bat' .
Again , I 'm not sure what you want ?
By default Drupal 6 supports posting stories , pages , blogging , aggregating content from feeds , hierarchically structured collections of pages , comments on any content , contact forms , multilingual sites , forums , login with OpenID , polls , clean URLs , content categorisation , registered user profiles , searching , basic statistics tracking , and user uploads .
Amongst other things .
I 'm not sure what else you would like a CMS to do as in the basic installation.Regarding 'Enabling the modules requires manual downloads and dependency hells.' .
Yes , in most installations you have to manually download and enable modules .
This makes it more secure .
Modules list their requirements and will not allow you to enable them unless their dependencies are also available .
I 'm not sure how this is 'hell ' ?
Surely it 's sensible not to allow a module to be enabled if it 's guaranteed to break ? Regarding 'The notion of using the site as you build it is shit, ' On the other hand , eating your own dogfood is a very good way of being sure that your users will enjoy the site you are building.Usually one would put the site into maintenance mode , but this is n't required .
But again , if you do n't like to use what your users use , you ARE able to use an admin theme .
If you are building a larger site , it 's not recommended practice to work on the live site .
I have no idea what you mean about 'just writing your own CSS' .
'The only people who are willing to waste the time to understand Drupal enough...are those...chasing buzzwords... ' Drupal is not for everyone .
It 's definitely not perfect ; it 's a large , rapidly growing system , which is being improved as it grows .
Quality outside of the core is variable , as you would expect .
It does n't solve every problem , despite having around 5,000 modules available , spread across Drupal 5 and 6 ; clearly it did n't suit you , although it is fine for hundreds of thousands of other users .
I do n't know what problem you were trying to solve , but there are many CMS out there , and I 'd recommend you start by investigating Sharepoint .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do see a lack of civility in your posts, but not much information.Drupal does claim to be modular.
It doesn't often claim to be simple, unless you are only using a few core modules, perhaps in the default install, for instance, to make a blog.
In the base install it \_is\_ less polished than, say, Wordpress.
But it does more.
I'm not sure how you measure intuitivity - what's intuitive for one person isn't necessarily, for another.I don't know what you mean by 'Behavours are inconsistent across themes'.
Isn't the point of themes to bring individualism to your Drupal installation?
Doesn't that by definition mean that different themes will do different things?Regarding 'Half the available themes are broken'.
I have no idea where you get this statistic.
I do know that if you install a Drupal 5 theme on a Drupal 6 installation, it will most likely not work.
Perhaps that's what you did?Regarding 'Not supporting things off the bat'.
Again, I'm not sure what you want?
By default Drupal 6 supports posting stories, pages, blogging, aggregating content from feeds, hierarchically structured collections of pages, comments on any content, contact forms, multilingual sites, forums, login with OpenID, polls, clean URLs, content categorisation, registered user profiles,  searching, basic statistics tracking, and user uploads.
Amongst other things.
I'm not sure what else you would like a CMS to do as in the basic installation.Regarding 'Enabling the modules requires manual downloads and dependency hells.'.
Yes, in most installations you have to manually download and enable modules.
This makes it more secure.
Modules list their requirements and will not allow you to enable them unless their dependencies are also available.
I'm not sure how this is 'hell'?
Surely it's sensible not to allow a module to be enabled if it's guaranteed to break?Regarding 'The notion of using the site as you build it is shit,' On the other hand, eating your own dogfood is a very good way of being sure that your users will enjoy the site you are building.Usually one would put the site into maintenance mode, but this isn't required.
But again, if you don't like to use what your users use, you ARE able to use an admin theme.
If you are building a larger site, it's not recommended practice to work on the live site.
I have no idea what you mean about  'just writing your own CSS'.
'The only people who are willing to waste the time to understand Drupal enough...are those...chasing buzzwords...'  Drupal is not for everyone.
It's definitely not perfect; it's a large, rapidly growing system, which is being improved as it grows.
Quality outside of the core is variable, as you would expect.
It doesn't solve every problem, despite having around 5,000 modules available, spread across Drupal 5 and 6; clearly it didn't suit you, although it is fine for hundreds of thousands of other users.
I don't know what problem you were trying to solve, but there are many CMS out there, and I'd recommend you start by investigating Sharepoint.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011454</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Image Gallery</title>
	<author>zeroduck</author>
	<datestamp>1257513480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It depends on what kind of image gallery you're looking for.  There are a few image gallery modules available at drupal.org, and those might be what you're looking for.</p><p>Another way to do it is the views and cck way.  There's a <a href="http://www.lullabot.com/articles/photo-galleries-views-attach" title="lullabot.com">screencast</a> [lullabot.com] over at lullabot.  If you go this route, you probably want to look at the image\_fupload module, too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It depends on what kind of image gallery you 're looking for .
There are a few image gallery modules available at drupal.org , and those might be what you 're looking for.Another way to do it is the views and cck way .
There 's a screencast [ lullabot.com ] over at lullabot .
If you go this route , you probably want to look at the image \ _fupload module , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It depends on what kind of image gallery you're looking for.
There are a few image gallery modules available at drupal.org, and those might be what you're looking for.Another way to do it is the views and cck way.
There's a screencast [lullabot.com] over at lullabot.
If you go this route, you probably want to look at the image\_fupload module, too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010726</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012928</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>jamonterrell</author>
	<datestamp>1257626280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Agreed a thousand times over.  I really don't see how a community as geeky as slashdot can take drupal seriously.  I get it when other sites dominated by the non-techies see drupal and think, hey that seems to work pretty well... but seriously open up the fucking source code and look at it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed a thousand times over .
I really do n't see how a community as geeky as slashdot can take drupal seriously .
I get it when other sites dominated by the non-techies see drupal and think , hey that seems to work pretty well... but seriously open up the fucking source code and look at it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed a thousand times over.
I really don't see how a community as geeky as slashdot can take drupal seriously.
I get it when other sites dominated by the non-techies see drupal and think, hey that seems to work pretty well... but seriously open up the fucking source code and look at it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011804</id>
	<title>Re:Some major anti-Drupal FUD going on here</title>
	<author>worldthinker</author>
	<datestamp>1257517560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They're just jealous that the WhiteHouse chose Drupal for their website.  Seems to work very fast too.</p><p>But, I also happen to think that utilizing PHP for such a large scale site is risky both in coding efficiency and in security risks. Drupal and PHP are constantly being patched for vulnerabilities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 're just jealous that the WhiteHouse chose Drupal for their website .
Seems to work very fast too.But , I also happen to think that utilizing PHP for such a large scale site is risky both in coding efficiency and in security risks .
Drupal and PHP are constantly being patched for vulnerabilities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They're just jealous that the WhiteHouse chose Drupal for their website.
Seems to work very fast too.But, I also happen to think that utilizing PHP for such a large scale site is risky both in coding efficiency and in security risks.
Drupal and PHP are constantly being patched for vulnerabilities.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011618</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30014824</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>nidarus</author>
	<datestamp>1257616320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While I wouldn't get so upset about it, I agree - Drupal is not for you. If you just want something to work out of the box, you'll probably want something like ExpressionEngine, or even Wordpress.</p><p>But as an alternative to building the site from scratch with Rails/Django/pure PHP, it's great. It may not be OOP, and the database layer is shit, but it's so customizable, and there are so many useful modules, that you rarely have to reinvent the wheel.</p><p>I only wish they'd stop pretending that it's a "just a CMS". It just leads to frustration, anger, and bad press.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While I would n't get so upset about it , I agree - Drupal is not for you .
If you just want something to work out of the box , you 'll probably want something like ExpressionEngine , or even Wordpress.But as an alternative to building the site from scratch with Rails/Django/pure PHP , it 's great .
It may not be OOP , and the database layer is shit , but it 's so customizable , and there are so many useful modules , that you rarely have to reinvent the wheel.I only wish they 'd stop pretending that it 's a " just a CMS " .
It just leads to frustration , anger , and bad press .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I wouldn't get so upset about it, I agree - Drupal is not for you.
If you just want something to work out of the box, you'll probably want something like ExpressionEngine, or even Wordpress.But as an alternative to building the site from scratch with Rails/Django/pure PHP, it's great.
It may not be OOP, and the database layer is shit, but it's so customizable, and there are so many useful modules, that you rarely have to reinvent the wheel.I only wish they'd stop pretending that it's a "just a CMS".
It just leads to frustration, anger, and bad press.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010780</id>
	<title>Seriously, 264 Pages?!?!?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257507480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sorry, but if it takes a 264 page book to teach someone how to implement media in a CMS, then something is wrong with the system.</p><p>Either that or this is one wordy author.......</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sorry , but if it takes a 264 page book to teach someone how to implement media in a CMS , then something is wrong with the system.Either that or this is one wordy author...... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sorry, but if it takes a 264 page book to teach someone how to implement media in a CMS, then something is wrong with the system.Either that or this is one wordy author.......</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010726</id>
	<title>Drupal Image Gallery</title>
	<author>letsgetsilly</author>
	<datestamp>1257507240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have prefer to use Drupal when developing sites for clients who's requirements align with what a CMS can provide.

I recently received a contract to build a website with an intuitive slick image gallery, and I decided to explore Drupals image capabilities more than I had before. I have used the Gallery module before and found it suitable for for home photos, but I have not found an image gallery that would be useful for displaying images/slideshows (such as lightbox2) for a business-oriented website, and that the average user would find it intuitive to manage themselves.

I have been attempting to modify the image\_gallery module in order to make it as straight forward as possible, but it is still confusing to me. I'm curious as to what other drupal developers use, or if there is just a lack of drupal modules and features that make images easy to use.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have prefer to use Drupal when developing sites for clients who 's requirements align with what a CMS can provide .
I recently received a contract to build a website with an intuitive slick image gallery , and I decided to explore Drupals image capabilities more than I had before .
I have used the Gallery module before and found it suitable for for home photos , but I have not found an image gallery that would be useful for displaying images/slideshows ( such as lightbox2 ) for a business-oriented website , and that the average user would find it intuitive to manage themselves .
I have been attempting to modify the image \ _gallery module in order to make it as straight forward as possible , but it is still confusing to me .
I 'm curious as to what other drupal developers use , or if there is just a lack of drupal modules and features that make images easy to use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have prefer to use Drupal when developing sites for clients who's requirements align with what a CMS can provide.
I recently received a contract to build a website with an intuitive slick image gallery, and I decided to explore Drupals image capabilities more than I had before.
I have used the Gallery module before and found it suitable for for home photos, but I have not found an image gallery that would be useful for displaying images/slideshows (such as lightbox2) for a business-oriented website, and that the average user would find it intuitive to manage themselves.
I have been attempting to modify the image\_gallery module in order to make it as straight forward as possible, but it is still confusing to me.
I'm curious as to what other drupal developers use, or if there is just a lack of drupal modules and features that make images easy to use.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011816</id>
	<title>Custom CMS</title>
	<author>Danzigism</author>
	<datestamp>1257517800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This has always been a debated topic. Depending on the needs of your client, or yourself, sometimes it is best just to make a custom CMS. Some non-developer types out there might scoff at this, but think of it this way. You could literally make your own CMS after learning some basic functions of PHP and MySQL. As a matter of fact, as a "designer" I think it is necessary that you understand these concepts. Once you see what is involved with making a simple CMS, then figure out whether or not you should use a big solution like Drupal or Joomla. But in all honestly, once you learn how to CREATE, INSERT, ALTER and UPDATE data from forms, and use the mysqli\_connect function, you'll soon start to realize that you can be much more artistic with your sites. I'm not saying everyone should make a custom CMS, but the majority of small clients just want to edit the text on their homepage, put up new pics in their photo galleries, have a user submitted testimonials page that they can moderate, and keep in touch with their website visitors with the help of a mailing list. All of which can be accomplished with a couple days of reading up on some basic PHP and MySQL tutorials.<br> <br>
I've tried so hard to use Joomla and Drupal, and it just isn't for me. I could spend DAYS trying to figure out how to make a custom theme, or simply spend a couple hours making my own site layout from scratch, throw in a couple divs and some PHP scripts, and be done with it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This has always been a debated topic .
Depending on the needs of your client , or yourself , sometimes it is best just to make a custom CMS .
Some non-developer types out there might scoff at this , but think of it this way .
You could literally make your own CMS after learning some basic functions of PHP and MySQL .
As a matter of fact , as a " designer " I think it is necessary that you understand these concepts .
Once you see what is involved with making a simple CMS , then figure out whether or not you should use a big solution like Drupal or Joomla .
But in all honestly , once you learn how to CREATE , INSERT , ALTER and UPDATE data from forms , and use the mysqli \ _connect function , you 'll soon start to realize that you can be much more artistic with your sites .
I 'm not saying everyone should make a custom CMS , but the majority of small clients just want to edit the text on their homepage , put up new pics in their photo galleries , have a user submitted testimonials page that they can moderate , and keep in touch with their website visitors with the help of a mailing list .
All of which can be accomplished with a couple days of reading up on some basic PHP and MySQL tutorials .
I 've tried so hard to use Joomla and Drupal , and it just is n't for me .
I could spend DAYS trying to figure out how to make a custom theme , or simply spend a couple hours making my own site layout from scratch , throw in a couple divs and some PHP scripts , and be done with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has always been a debated topic.
Depending on the needs of your client, or yourself, sometimes it is best just to make a custom CMS.
Some non-developer types out there might scoff at this, but think of it this way.
You could literally make your own CMS after learning some basic functions of PHP and MySQL.
As a matter of fact, as a "designer" I think it is necessary that you understand these concepts.
Once you see what is involved with making a simple CMS, then figure out whether or not you should use a big solution like Drupal or Joomla.
But in all honestly, once you learn how to CREATE, INSERT, ALTER and UPDATE data from forms, and use the mysqli\_connect function, you'll soon start to realize that you can be much more artistic with your sites.
I'm not saying everyone should make a custom CMS, but the majority of small clients just want to edit the text on their homepage, put up new pics in their photo galleries, have a user submitted testimonials page that they can moderate, and keep in touch with their website visitors with the help of a mailing list.
All of which can be accomplished with a couple days of reading up on some basic PHP and MySQL tutorials.
I've tried so hard to use Joomla and Drupal, and it just isn't for me.
I could spend DAYS trying to figure out how to make a custom theme, or simply spend a couple hours making my own site layout from scratch, throw in a couple divs and some PHP scripts, and be done with it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011588</id>
	<title>The truth about Drupal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257515100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Drupal only sucks if you don't know how to use it.  It's pretty great if you do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Drupal only sucks if you do n't know how to use it .
It 's pretty great if you do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Drupal only sucks if you don't know how to use it.
It's pretty great if you do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011484</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal is impossible unless you're a consultant</title>
	<author>Degro</author>
	<datestamp>1257513720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, you think any jackass manager should be able to whip together the companies site and not require a consultant that with the accumulated knowledge of working with it everyday?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , you think any jackass manager should be able to whip together the companies site and not require a consultant that with the accumulated knowledge of working with it everyday ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, you think any jackass manager should be able to whip together the companies site and not require a consultant that with the accumulated knowledge of working with it everyday?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010514</id>
	<title>How does it compare to online help</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257505920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been working with Drupal for a couple years now.  Even experienced PHP developers will find themselves in a learning curve in using Drupal's administrative "backend" and third party modules.</p><p>An experienced PHP developer also realizes the value and importance of online documentation... php.net is a resource I still constantly refer to when certain decisions need to get made...</p><p>Whenever I see a Drupal-related book, I immediately compare it to drupal.org, the advanced help module and the information a simple google search can produce.</p><p>A developer's time learning fundamental Drupal concepts would be better served through diving into the Drupal community... not reading a book...  That way they're prepared to find resources for all the various issues that come up with Drupal Development... not just adding multimedia.</p><p>A would like to see a book written from the perspective of a Web programmer evaluating Drupal as a development (MVC) framework weighed against the likes of cakePHP, Zend, codeigniter, et al.</p><p>Its been a topic of debate lately and a book would be a good medium to thoroughly evaluate such an idea.</p><p>A book like that would help the Drupal Community... I feel like the book you described hurts it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been working with Drupal for a couple years now .
Even experienced PHP developers will find themselves in a learning curve in using Drupal 's administrative " backend " and third party modules.An experienced PHP developer also realizes the value and importance of online documentation... php.net is a resource I still constantly refer to when certain decisions need to get made...Whenever I see a Drupal-related book , I immediately compare it to drupal.org , the advanced help module and the information a simple google search can produce.A developer 's time learning fundamental Drupal concepts would be better served through diving into the Drupal community... not reading a book... That way they 're prepared to find resources for all the various issues that come up with Drupal Development... not just adding multimedia.A would like to see a book written from the perspective of a Web programmer evaluating Drupal as a development ( MVC ) framework weighed against the likes of cakePHP , Zend , codeigniter , et al.Its been a topic of debate lately and a book would be a good medium to thoroughly evaluate such an idea.A book like that would help the Drupal Community... I feel like the book you described hurts it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been working with Drupal for a couple years now.
Even experienced PHP developers will find themselves in a learning curve in using Drupal's administrative "backend" and third party modules.An experienced PHP developer also realizes the value and importance of online documentation... php.net is a resource I still constantly refer to when certain decisions need to get made...Whenever I see a Drupal-related book, I immediately compare it to drupal.org, the advanced help module and the information a simple google search can produce.A developer's time learning fundamental Drupal concepts would be better served through diving into the Drupal community... not reading a book...  That way they're prepared to find resources for all the various issues that come up with Drupal Development... not just adding multimedia.A would like to see a book written from the perspective of a Web programmer evaluating Drupal as a development (MVC) framework weighed against the likes of cakePHP, Zend, codeigniter, et al.Its been a topic of debate lately and a book would be a good medium to thoroughly evaluate such an idea.A book like that would help the Drupal Community... I feel like the book you described hurts it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010550</id>
	<title>a FOSS project that requires extensive hacking</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257506100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>what is that smell, did i step in something? oh wait, it's a typical FOSS project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what is that smell , did i step in something ?
oh wait , it 's a typical FOSS project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what is that smell, did i step in something?
oh wait, it's a typical FOSS project.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012436</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>psililisp</author>
	<datestamp>1257528120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Drupal sucks balls. It's very counterintuitive for something that claims to be simple and modular. Behaviors are inconsistent across themes, half of the available themes are broken, TFS is right about Drupal not supporting jack shit right off the bat. Enabling the modules requires manual downloads and dependency hells. The notion of using the site as you build it is shit, and using an "admin theme" just causes trouble because of the inconsistent behaviors across themes. Even its own advocates recommend just writing your own PHP and CSS.</p><p>Can somebody <i>please</i> develop a CMS for people <i>without</i> Asperger's ?!</p></div><p>Can you offer another CMS that doesn't have the same issues, and does everything you're pretty little world wants?</p><p>I spent a bit of time playing with Joomla, WP, and Drupal. For some reason, I dug Drupal for many reasons:<br>
&nbsp; - customization<br>
&nbsp; - online support<br>
&nbsp; - "FREE" modules<br>
&nbsp; - did I say customization without needing to code anything, ala CCK / VIews</p><p>And yes, I'll admit it's a learning curve working with Drupal, but so are all the other CMS products out there. If you're going to bash something, at least throw some specifics out; and I'm not talking about grabbing some pre-built theme and having issues - go for WP if you want cookie-cutter stuff.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Drupal sucks balls .
It 's very counterintuitive for something that claims to be simple and modular .
Behaviors are inconsistent across themes , half of the available themes are broken , TFS is right about Drupal not supporting jack shit right off the bat .
Enabling the modules requires manual downloads and dependency hells .
The notion of using the site as you build it is shit , and using an " admin theme " just causes trouble because of the inconsistent behaviors across themes .
Even its own advocates recommend just writing your own PHP and CSS.Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger 's ?
! Can you offer another CMS that does n't have the same issues , and does everything you 're pretty little world wants ? I spent a bit of time playing with Joomla , WP , and Drupal .
For some reason , I dug Drupal for many reasons :   - customization   - online support   - " FREE " modules   - did I say customization without needing to code anything , ala CCK / VIewsAnd yes , I 'll admit it 's a learning curve working with Drupal , but so are all the other CMS products out there .
If you 're going to bash something , at least throw some specifics out ; and I 'm not talking about grabbing some pre-built theme and having issues - go for WP if you want cookie-cutter stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Drupal sucks balls.
It's very counterintuitive for something that claims to be simple and modular.
Behaviors are inconsistent across themes, half of the available themes are broken, TFS is right about Drupal not supporting jack shit right off the bat.
Enabling the modules requires manual downloads and dependency hells.
The notion of using the site as you build it is shit, and using an "admin theme" just causes trouble because of the inconsistent behaviors across themes.
Even its own advocates recommend just writing your own PHP and CSS.Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger's ?
!Can you offer another CMS that doesn't have the same issues, and does everything you're pretty little world wants?I spent a bit of time playing with Joomla, WP, and Drupal.
For some reason, I dug Drupal for many reasons:
  - customization
  - online support
  - "FREE" modules
  - did I say customization without needing to code anything, ala CCK / VIewsAnd yes, I'll admit it's a learning curve working with Drupal, but so are all the other CMS products out there.
If you're going to bash something, at least throw some specifics out; and I'm not talking about grabbing some pre-built theme and having issues - go for WP if you want cookie-cutter stuff.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010842</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>Atomm</author>
	<datestamp>1257507960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know everyone is going to mark the OP as a troll, but I have to agree.

I started out using PHPNuke nearly 10 years ago. I moved on to PostNuke, then Joomla, then Drupal, back to Joomla, then Wordpress. Of all the CMS/Blog software I have used, Drupal was the most unintuitive and cumbersome. Everything about it was hard to do, hard to customize. I could not stand it.

I've never understood how so many people can love it so much.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know everyone is going to mark the OP as a troll , but I have to agree .
I started out using PHPNuke nearly 10 years ago .
I moved on to PostNuke , then Joomla , then Drupal , back to Joomla , then Wordpress .
Of all the CMS/Blog software I have used , Drupal was the most unintuitive and cumbersome .
Everything about it was hard to do , hard to customize .
I could not stand it .
I 've never understood how so many people can love it so much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know everyone is going to mark the OP as a troll, but I have to agree.
I started out using PHPNuke nearly 10 years ago.
I moved on to PostNuke, then Joomla, then Drupal, back to Joomla, then Wordpress.
Of all the CMS/Blog software I have used, Drupal was the most unintuitive and cumbersome.
Everything about it was hard to do, hard to customize.
I could not stand it.
I've never understood how so many people can love it so much.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010678</id>
	<title>Don't use Drupal. It's a piece of shit.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257507000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do yourself a favor and don't bother with Drupal. It's a huge piece of shit.</p><p>We just tried to use it for an intranet site, and it fell flat on its face. We threw better hardware at it, and that didn't help. We tried Lighttpd instead of Apache, and it was still fucked. We tried Linux, FreeBSD, and Solaris. We tried several PHP bytecode caches. We tries PostgreSQL instead of MySQL, although it's not really "officially" supported, and that did help somewhat. Other than that, nothing helped.</p><p>Our developers did notice that it makes a fucking stupid number of SQL queries per page load, though. That was just for the basic CMS, too. One plugin we tried using was particularly bad. It made over 730 SQL queries per page load. Needless to say, we stopped using that plugin.</p><p>Our CIO ended up getting fed up with PHP and open source software failing us, so he went behind our backs and bought a proprietary ASP.NET-based CMS. We were all against it at first, but unlike Drupal, it actually works. Now we have egg all over our faces for trying to get our company to adopt open source software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do yourself a favor and do n't bother with Drupal .
It 's a huge piece of shit.We just tried to use it for an intranet site , and it fell flat on its face .
We threw better hardware at it , and that did n't help .
We tried Lighttpd instead of Apache , and it was still fucked .
We tried Linux , FreeBSD , and Solaris .
We tried several PHP bytecode caches .
We tries PostgreSQL instead of MySQL , although it 's not really " officially " supported , and that did help somewhat .
Other than that , nothing helped.Our developers did notice that it makes a fucking stupid number of SQL queries per page load , though .
That was just for the basic CMS , too .
One plugin we tried using was particularly bad .
It made over 730 SQL queries per page load .
Needless to say , we stopped using that plugin.Our CIO ended up getting fed up with PHP and open source software failing us , so he went behind our backs and bought a proprietary ASP.NET-based CMS .
We were all against it at first , but unlike Drupal , it actually works .
Now we have egg all over our faces for trying to get our company to adopt open source software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do yourself a favor and don't bother with Drupal.
It's a huge piece of shit.We just tried to use it for an intranet site, and it fell flat on its face.
We threw better hardware at it, and that didn't help.
We tried Lighttpd instead of Apache, and it was still fucked.
We tried Linux, FreeBSD, and Solaris.
We tried several PHP bytecode caches.
We tries PostgreSQL instead of MySQL, although it's not really "officially" supported, and that did help somewhat.
Other than that, nothing helped.Our developers did notice that it makes a fucking stupid number of SQL queries per page load, though.
That was just for the basic CMS, too.
One plugin we tried using was particularly bad.
It made over 730 SQL queries per page load.
Needless to say, we stopped using that plugin.Our CIO ended up getting fed up with PHP and open source software failing us, so he went behind our backs and bought a proprietary ASP.NET-based CMS.
We were all against it at first, but unlike Drupal, it actually works.
Now we have egg all over our faces for trying to get our company to adopt open source software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012268</id>
	<title>Like Democracy...</title>
	<author>sochdot</author>
	<datestamp>1257525120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Drupal is the worst form of CMS except for all the others that have been tried.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Drupal is the worst form of CMS except for all the others that have been tried .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Drupal is the worst form of CMS except for all the others that have been tried.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010990</id>
	<title>not aspergers...consultants</title>
	<author>SuperBanana</author>
	<datestamp>1257509280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger's ?!</i>

</p><p>It's for consultants, not people with Asperger's.  Everything requires coding and customization and is awkward.  It's a consultant's wet dream.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger 's ? !
It 's for consultants , not people with Asperger 's .
Everything requires coding and customization and is awkward .
It 's a consultant 's wet dream .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger's ?!
It's for consultants, not people with Asperger's.
Everything requires coding and customization and is awkward.
It's a consultant's wet dream.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30013750</id>
	<title>Re:How does it compare to online help</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257601200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The wonderful Drupal community's answer to quite a lot of the things we try do to with drupal, is "not supported, and we won't tell you why". No, thanks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The wonderful Drupal community 's answer to quite a lot of the things we try do to with drupal , is " not supported , and we wo n't tell you why " .
No , thanks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The wonderful Drupal community's answer to quite a lot of the things we try do to with drupal, is "not supported, and we won't tell you why".
No, thanks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010514</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010822</id>
	<title>No Steph the Geek</title>
	<author>Gothmolly</author>
	<datestamp>1257507840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just say no - if Steph the Geek is into it, its almost by definition faddish and lame.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just say no - if Steph the Geek is into it , its almost by definition faddish and lame .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just say no - if Steph the Geek is into it, its almost by definition faddish and lame.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011376</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal is impossible unless you're a consultant</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1257512640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The box-with-a-category, I also gave up on. Apparently, the "solution" is to dig into PHP in your theme (why themes are chock full of code is beyond me) and edit the files.</p></div><p>Themes are made up of code including functions because those functions are used to do things like draw menus, which are thus themeable. See how that works? Unfortunately, you're also very wrong. You can do it with the views and panels modules, which are two of the best-known and -supported drupal modules that there are.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Well, except that then when a new version of the theme comes out, you have to port your changes forward.</p> </div><p>Uh, what? The theme is a starting point. Once you've changed it, it's your theme. You might choose to share it, but you probably won't, which is why few themes are worth messing with. Or did you mean, when a new major version of Drupal comes out?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The subtheme doesn't inherit critical stuff in the original theme, like the stuff that defines where content boxes can go on the page (ie, the most basic part of the theme: the layout!)</p></div><p>yes, it does. subthemes wouldn't have ANY layout if they didn't inherit this stuff. Page templates are looked for first in the subtheme, then in the theme, and it's pretty much done by filename.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>sometimes when you enable a module, it runs all over your database, permanently screwing the pooch and requiring a complete restore from backup</p></div><p>When you enable a module, it does stuff to your, and this is a surprise? Sometimes a module fails, and this is a surprise?</p><p>You're expecting everything to work perfectly. If you want that, hire someone to make it so. Drupal is Free and free and its quality is not guaranteed. Parts work very well, other parts don't. I know someone who maintains (among others) a site for a major label band with a flash interface. It's backended by drupal because it provides reliability and performance. If he needs a module that doesn't exist he writes it. You can do the same thing. Complaining that the only reliable parts of drupal are the core parts is like complaining when your work truck that has survived a million miles had a top speed of seventy miles an hour, and you couldn'[t use it to win at Indy. Meanwhile, it <em>is</em> completely possible to put together a pretty decent community site with just modules you can get out of the can. The penalty for learning drupal is much less than coding your own CMS that does what it does.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Why the fuck should I have to learn internals to put an event calendar on my blog's sidebar?</p> </div><p>You shouldn't, and you don't. I did it with modules alone, and zero PHP. In fact, I'm really shitty with PHP, so from where I'm sitting you look like a serious idiot. But then, my drupal site is down because a) I'm lazy and b) VotingAPI has <strong>zero</strong> documentation and c) I'm shitty with PHP. So it's not like I would say that all is sunshine and roses. It's just that from what I can tell, and I tried (or tried to install) every Free/free CMS that had a halfway decent feature set, Drupal is head and shoulders above the "competition".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The box-with-a-category , I also gave up on .
Apparently , the " solution " is to dig into PHP in your theme ( why themes are chock full of code is beyond me ) and edit the files.Themes are made up of code including functions because those functions are used to do things like draw menus , which are thus themeable .
See how that works ?
Unfortunately , you 're also very wrong .
You can do it with the views and panels modules , which are two of the best-known and -supported drupal modules that there are.Well , except that then when a new version of the theme comes out , you have to port your changes forward .
Uh , what ?
The theme is a starting point .
Once you 've changed it , it 's your theme .
You might choose to share it , but you probably wo n't , which is why few themes are worth messing with .
Or did you mean , when a new major version of Drupal comes out ? The subtheme does n't inherit critical stuff in the original theme , like the stuff that defines where content boxes can go on the page ( ie , the most basic part of the theme : the layout !
) yes , it does .
subthemes would n't have ANY layout if they did n't inherit this stuff .
Page templates are looked for first in the subtheme , then in the theme , and it 's pretty much done by filename.sometimes when you enable a module , it runs all over your database , permanently screwing the pooch and requiring a complete restore from backupWhen you enable a module , it does stuff to your , and this is a surprise ?
Sometimes a module fails , and this is a surprise ? You 're expecting everything to work perfectly .
If you want that , hire someone to make it so .
Drupal is Free and free and its quality is not guaranteed .
Parts work very well , other parts do n't .
I know someone who maintains ( among others ) a site for a major label band with a flash interface .
It 's backended by drupal because it provides reliability and performance .
If he needs a module that does n't exist he writes it .
You can do the same thing .
Complaining that the only reliable parts of drupal are the core parts is like complaining when your work truck that has survived a million miles had a top speed of seventy miles an hour , and you couldn ' [ t use it to win at Indy .
Meanwhile , it is completely possible to put together a pretty decent community site with just modules you can get out of the can .
The penalty for learning drupal is much less than coding your own CMS that does what it does.Why the fuck should I have to learn internals to put an event calendar on my blog 's sidebar ?
You should n't , and you do n't .
I did it with modules alone , and zero PHP .
In fact , I 'm really shitty with PHP , so from where I 'm sitting you look like a serious idiot .
But then , my drupal site is down because a ) I 'm lazy and b ) VotingAPI has zero documentation and c ) I 'm shitty with PHP .
So it 's not like I would say that all is sunshine and roses .
It 's just that from what I can tell , and I tried ( or tried to install ) every Free/free CMS that had a halfway decent feature set , Drupal is head and shoulders above the " competition " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The box-with-a-category, I also gave up on.
Apparently, the "solution" is to dig into PHP in your theme (why themes are chock full of code is beyond me) and edit the files.Themes are made up of code including functions because those functions are used to do things like draw menus, which are thus themeable.
See how that works?
Unfortunately, you're also very wrong.
You can do it with the views and panels modules, which are two of the best-known and -supported drupal modules that there are.Well, except that then when a new version of the theme comes out, you have to port your changes forward.
Uh, what?
The theme is a starting point.
Once you've changed it, it's your theme.
You might choose to share it, but you probably won't, which is why few themes are worth messing with.
Or did you mean, when a new major version of Drupal comes out?The subtheme doesn't inherit critical stuff in the original theme, like the stuff that defines where content boxes can go on the page (ie, the most basic part of the theme: the layout!
)yes, it does.
subthemes wouldn't have ANY layout if they didn't inherit this stuff.
Page templates are looked for first in the subtheme, then in the theme, and it's pretty much done by filename.sometimes when you enable a module, it runs all over your database, permanently screwing the pooch and requiring a complete restore from backupWhen you enable a module, it does stuff to your, and this is a surprise?
Sometimes a module fails, and this is a surprise?You're expecting everything to work perfectly.
If you want that, hire someone to make it so.
Drupal is Free and free and its quality is not guaranteed.
Parts work very well, other parts don't.
I know someone who maintains (among others) a site for a major label band with a flash interface.
It's backended by drupal because it provides reliability and performance.
If he needs a module that doesn't exist he writes it.
You can do the same thing.
Complaining that the only reliable parts of drupal are the core parts is like complaining when your work truck that has survived a million miles had a top speed of seventy miles an hour, and you couldn'[t use it to win at Indy.
Meanwhile, it is completely possible to put together a pretty decent community site with just modules you can get out of the can.
The penalty for learning drupal is much less than coding your own CMS that does what it does.Why the fuck should I have to learn internals to put an event calendar on my blog's sidebar?
You shouldn't, and you don't.
I did it with modules alone, and zero PHP.
In fact, I'm really shitty with PHP, so from where I'm sitting you look like a serious idiot.
But then, my drupal site is down because a) I'm lazy and b) VotingAPI has zero documentation and c) I'm shitty with PHP.
So it's not like I would say that all is sunshine and roses.
It's just that from what I can tell, and I tried (or tried to install) every Free/free CMS that had a halfway decent feature set, Drupal is head and shoulders above the "competition".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011158</id>
	<title>Wow!  What's With the Hate?</title>
	<author>mpapet</author>
	<datestamp>1257510480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is it any worse than similar CMS's?</p><p>There are tons of modules for it, so more than just a couple people 'get it.'</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it any worse than similar CMS 's ? There are tons of modules for it , so more than just a couple people 'get it .
'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it any worse than similar CMS's?There are tons of modules for it, so more than just a couple people 'get it.
'</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011352</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>Pootie Tang</author>
	<datestamp>1257512340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's a fair point, but I don't see mention of "use Wordpress" on Drupal's about page. Quite the opposite, they make it sound like the ordinary Joe could make whitehouse.gov. It's not a complete lie either, depending on the level of customization desired it's quite possible for someone without a lot of experience to use. But it's also quite possible you'll wind up needing a consultant. Drupal isn't immune to fanboism either. It's not so surprising that many people find it's not what they want and then tell others it wasn't what they wanted or thought they were getting.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's a fair point , but I do n't see mention of " use Wordpress " on Drupal 's about page .
Quite the opposite , they make it sound like the ordinary Joe could make whitehouse.gov .
It 's not a complete lie either , depending on the level of customization desired it 's quite possible for someone without a lot of experience to use .
But it 's also quite possible you 'll wind up needing a consultant .
Drupal is n't immune to fanboism either .
It 's not so surprising that many people find it 's not what they want and then tell others it was n't what they wanted or thought they were getting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's a fair point, but I don't see mention of "use Wordpress" on Drupal's about page.
Quite the opposite, they make it sound like the ordinary Joe could make whitehouse.gov.
It's not a complete lie either, depending on the level of customization desired it's quite possible for someone without a lot of experience to use.
But it's also quite possible you'll wind up needing a consultant.
Drupal isn't immune to fanboism either.
It's not so surprising that many people find it's not what they want and then tell others it wasn't what they wanted or thought they were getting.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30013836</id>
	<title>Drupal ? Spare me.</title>
	<author>vegiVamp</author>
	<datestamp>1257602940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a DBA and Linux admin, I've had nothing but trouble with Drupal. We have several large-ish Drupal deployments, and we've had to hack away at the code for over a year now, and it's getting stable now, because we started building our own Drupal version with a shitload of patches to the core.<br><br>Drupal works indeed fine for small-scale deployments, but as soon as you want to use Drupal's famed flexibility and customizability, and scale your site out, you're going to run into trouble, mostly with your database - especially if you want a lot of logged-in-only content.<br><br>If Drupal is really serious about going on to be used for large, professional deployments, the best recommendation I have for Dries and the gang, is to abandond the entire "but we want to be compatible with all databases" whine, and decide on ONE database, which they use CORRECTLY and EFFICIENTLY. I'm sorry, but nearly a hundred queries for a single pageview is not acceptable. Please decide on an optimum technology stack and use it efficiently; and publish both the optimum stack and a fully patched, efficient version of the code specifically for large-scale deployments.<br><br>We've in the mean time rewrote the caching engine to correctly support Memcached - some parts of Drupal still fuck up, though, so ftm we've got 12 separate Memcache bins for every site deployment, to avoid one module flushing the cache of an entirely different site. We looked at read-write splitting for the database, and found that it won't work (on mysql, at least) because of the way Drupal interacts with the database. We're doing ugly tricks wih Squid and cookies, because not-logged-in users sometimes get content from logged-in pages. We've done oodles of patches on Drupal core, to optimize database use and remove needless full table locking. We're writing custom modules to avoid using Drupal Views, which create queries that are so inefficient that one of them on the front page can kill your monster of a database host.<br><br>No, Drupal may be very good for quick, small deployments, but if you're looking for something to build a high-traffic site with plenty of customization and member-only data, you're better off building your own framework from scratch, with scalability in mind.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a DBA and Linux admin , I 've had nothing but trouble with Drupal .
We have several large-ish Drupal deployments , and we 've had to hack away at the code for over a year now , and it 's getting stable now , because we started building our own Drupal version with a shitload of patches to the core.Drupal works indeed fine for small-scale deployments , but as soon as you want to use Drupal 's famed flexibility and customizability , and scale your site out , you 're going to run into trouble , mostly with your database - especially if you want a lot of logged-in-only content.If Drupal is really serious about going on to be used for large , professional deployments , the best recommendation I have for Dries and the gang , is to abandond the entire " but we want to be compatible with all databases " whine , and decide on ONE database , which they use CORRECTLY and EFFICIENTLY .
I 'm sorry , but nearly a hundred queries for a single pageview is not acceptable .
Please decide on an optimum technology stack and use it efficiently ; and publish both the optimum stack and a fully patched , efficient version of the code specifically for large-scale deployments.We 've in the mean time rewrote the caching engine to correctly support Memcached - some parts of Drupal still fuck up , though , so ftm we 've got 12 separate Memcache bins for every site deployment , to avoid one module flushing the cache of an entirely different site .
We looked at read-write splitting for the database , and found that it wo n't work ( on mysql , at least ) because of the way Drupal interacts with the database .
We 're doing ugly tricks wih Squid and cookies , because not-logged-in users sometimes get content from logged-in pages .
We 've done oodles of patches on Drupal core , to optimize database use and remove needless full table locking .
We 're writing custom modules to avoid using Drupal Views , which create queries that are so inefficient that one of them on the front page can kill your monster of a database host.No , Drupal may be very good for quick , small deployments , but if you 're looking for something to build a high-traffic site with plenty of customization and member-only data , you 're better off building your own framework from scratch , with scalability in mind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a DBA and Linux admin, I've had nothing but trouble with Drupal.
We have several large-ish Drupal deployments, and we've had to hack away at the code for over a year now, and it's getting stable now, because we started building our own Drupal version with a shitload of patches to the core.Drupal works indeed fine for small-scale deployments, but as soon as you want to use Drupal's famed flexibility and customizability, and scale your site out, you're going to run into trouble, mostly with your database - especially if you want a lot of logged-in-only content.If Drupal is really serious about going on to be used for large, professional deployments, the best recommendation I have for Dries and the gang, is to abandond the entire "but we want to be compatible with all databases" whine, and decide on ONE database, which they use CORRECTLY and EFFICIENTLY.
I'm sorry, but nearly a hundred queries for a single pageview is not acceptable.
Please decide on an optimum technology stack and use it efficiently; and publish both the optimum stack and a fully patched, efficient version of the code specifically for large-scale deployments.We've in the mean time rewrote the caching engine to correctly support Memcached - some parts of Drupal still fuck up, though, so ftm we've got 12 separate Memcache bins for every site deployment, to avoid one module flushing the cache of an entirely different site.
We looked at read-write splitting for the database, and found that it won't work (on mysql, at least) because of the way Drupal interacts with the database.
We're doing ugly tricks wih Squid and cookies, because not-logged-in users sometimes get content from logged-in pages.
We've done oodles of patches on Drupal core, to optimize database use and remove needless full table locking.
We're writing custom modules to avoid using Drupal Views, which create queries that are so inefficient that one of them on the front page can kill your monster of a database host.No, Drupal may be very good for quick, small deployments, but if you're looking for something to build a high-traffic site with plenty of customization and member-only data, you're better off building your own framework from scratch, with scalability in mind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011424</id>
	<title>Re:Don't use Drupal. It's a piece of shit.</title>
	<author>ducomputergeek</author>
	<datestamp>1257513120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know you got modded as a troll, but I had a similar problem with Drupal a couple years ago.  There was a time when Drupal was worth considering, but its backend never made much sense.  It was confusing enough to a developer, try explaining it to someone who is just in charge of updating, adding, changing content.  We used Drupal because at the time it appeared to be the online opensource CMS that had all the features we were looking for in their modules repository.</p><p>And it was slow, 20sec + load times with even the most basic themes.  And like the parent, we tried different platforms, different caches, and eventually the entire project got shelved and I've never touched Drupal since.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know you got modded as a troll , but I had a similar problem with Drupal a couple years ago .
There was a time when Drupal was worth considering , but its backend never made much sense .
It was confusing enough to a developer , try explaining it to someone who is just in charge of updating , adding , changing content .
We used Drupal because at the time it appeared to be the online opensource CMS that had all the features we were looking for in their modules repository.And it was slow , 20sec + load times with even the most basic themes .
And like the parent , we tried different platforms , different caches , and eventually the entire project got shelved and I 've never touched Drupal since .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know you got modded as a troll, but I had a similar problem with Drupal a couple years ago.
There was a time when Drupal was worth considering, but its backend never made much sense.
It was confusing enough to a developer, try explaining it to someone who is just in charge of updating, adding, changing content.
We used Drupal because at the time it appeared to be the online opensource CMS that had all the features we were looking for in their modules repository.And it was slow, 20sec + load times with even the most basic themes.
And like the parent, we tried different platforms, different caches, and eventually the entire project got shelved and I've never touched Drupal since.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011438</id>
	<title>What's with all the Drupal hate?</title>
	<author>hansamurai</author>
	<datestamp>1257513300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've had great luck with it the last 18 months or so and the site has scaled pretty well with my needs.  I had some complaints from my host when I was on shared hosting that I was hitting their database pretty hard, but I turned on caching for anonymous users and it's been smooth sailing since.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've had great luck with it the last 18 months or so and the site has scaled pretty well with my needs .
I had some complaints from my host when I was on shared hosting that I was hitting their database pretty hard , but I turned on caching for anonymous users and it 's been smooth sailing since .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've had great luck with it the last 18 months or so and the site has scaled pretty well with my needs.
I had some complaints from my host when I was on shared hosting that I was hitting their database pretty hard, but I turned on caching for anonymous users and it's been smooth sailing since.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011400</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal is impossible unless you're a consultant</title>
	<author>zeroduck</author>
	<datestamp>1257512760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For your second point, your best option is to use the views module.  Views is essentially a query builder that integrates with drupal and can provide different types of output (full pages or blocks).  You'd create a view, add the fields you want to display, filter on the category and/or content type, sort descending by post date and tell it to produce a block.  Go to your block configuration, tell it to put the block in the right region and to only display on the front page.

Drupal has a somewhat steep learning curve, but you can do a lot with it.  If all you're looking for is a simple blog, wordpress is probably better for the job.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For your second point , your best option is to use the views module .
Views is essentially a query builder that integrates with drupal and can provide different types of output ( full pages or blocks ) .
You 'd create a view , add the fields you want to display , filter on the category and/or content type , sort descending by post date and tell it to produce a block .
Go to your block configuration , tell it to put the block in the right region and to only display on the front page .
Drupal has a somewhat steep learning curve , but you can do a lot with it .
If all you 're looking for is a simple blog , wordpress is probably better for the job .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For your second point, your best option is to use the views module.
Views is essentially a query builder that integrates with drupal and can provide different types of output (full pages or blocks).
You'd create a view, add the fields you want to display, filter on the category and/or content type, sort descending by post date and tell it to produce a block.
Go to your block configuration, tell it to put the block in the right region and to only display on the front page.
Drupal has a somewhat steep learning curve, but you can do a lot with it.
If all you're looking for is a simple blog, wordpress is probably better for the job.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010986</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257509220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Drupal does not suck balls.  It doesn't even have a mouth.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Drupal does not suck balls .
It does n't even have a mouth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Drupal does not suck balls.
It doesn't even have a mouth.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</id>
	<title>Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257505620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Drupal sucks balls. It's very counterintuitive for something that claims to be simple and modular. Behaviors are inconsistent across themes, half of the available themes are broken, TFS is right about Drupal not supporting jack shit right off the bat. Enabling the modules requires manual downloads and dependency hells. The notion of using the site as you build it is shit, and using an "admin theme" just causes trouble because of the inconsistent behaviors across themes. Even its own advocates recommend just writing your own PHP and CSS.<br> <br>

Can somebody <i>please</i> develop a CMS for people <i>without</i> Asperger's ?!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Drupal sucks balls .
It 's very counterintuitive for something that claims to be simple and modular .
Behaviors are inconsistent across themes , half of the available themes are broken , TFS is right about Drupal not supporting jack shit right off the bat .
Enabling the modules requires manual downloads and dependency hells .
The notion of using the site as you build it is shit , and using an " admin theme " just causes trouble because of the inconsistent behaviors across themes .
Even its own advocates recommend just writing your own PHP and CSS .
Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger 's ?
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Drupal sucks balls.
It's very counterintuitive for something that claims to be simple and modular.
Behaviors are inconsistent across themes, half of the available themes are broken, TFS is right about Drupal not supporting jack shit right off the bat.
Enabling the modules requires manual downloads and dependency hells.
The notion of using the site as you build it is shit, and using an "admin theme" just causes trouble because of the inconsistent behaviors across themes.
Even its own advocates recommend just writing your own PHP and CSS.
Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger's ?
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011618</id>
	<title>Some major anti-Drupal FUD going on here</title>
	<author>Optic7</author>
	<datestamp>1257515640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just don't get it. Most of the negative posts here so far just seem completely inaccurate. They must be written either by fanboys for other CMS systems or by people that have no clue to start with.</p><p>I'm not a web developer and I don't know even a bit of PHP and I am able to understand how Drupal works and get it to work fine for me. Granted, Drupal is not a panacea, but as far as open source CMSs go, I think it's one of the best available.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just do n't get it .
Most of the negative posts here so far just seem completely inaccurate .
They must be written either by fanboys for other CMS systems or by people that have no clue to start with.I 'm not a web developer and I do n't know even a bit of PHP and I am able to understand how Drupal works and get it to work fine for me .
Granted , Drupal is not a panacea , but as far as open source CMSs go , I think it 's one of the best available .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just don't get it.
Most of the negative posts here so far just seem completely inaccurate.
They must be written either by fanboys for other CMS systems or by people that have no clue to start with.I'm not a web developer and I don't know even a bit of PHP and I am able to understand how Drupal works and get it to work fine for me.
Granted, Drupal is not a panacea, but as far as open source CMSs go, I think it's one of the best available.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011496</id>
	<title>Re:a FOSS project that requires extensive hacking</title>
	<author>Larryish</author>
	<datestamp>1257513840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I run free software almost exclusively, and even I LOL'd at that.</p><p>It applies to so many web apps that I can think of, it is almost not funny. Almost.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I run free software almost exclusively , and even I LOL 'd at that.It applies to so many web apps that I can think of , it is almost not funny .
Almost .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I run free software almost exclusively, and even I LOL'd at that.It applies to so many web apps that I can think of, it is almost not funny.
Almost.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010550</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011020</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal is impossible unless you're a consultant</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257509580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The scary thing is that gov agencies and cultural institutions are encouraging each other to adopt Drupal. Apparently it's the "in" thing, and this really scares me. We're severely understaffed (with no web apps developers) and the last thing we need is another unmaintainable mess to grapple with. I'm a web designer and front end developer and while I can modify simple PHP code, I'm definitely not a programmer.</p><p>If I had to use a PHP + MySQL solution, I'd just use ExpressionEngine (commercial product). It's not perfect, but it's by far the most understandable and workable small-scale CMS I've ever used.</p><p>I hope a truly maintainable and usable open source CMS becomes available soon. Some folks are working on a complete UX overhaul of Drupal, so maybe that will give some glimmer of hope.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The scary thing is that gov agencies and cultural institutions are encouraging each other to adopt Drupal .
Apparently it 's the " in " thing , and this really scares me .
We 're severely understaffed ( with no web apps developers ) and the last thing we need is another unmaintainable mess to grapple with .
I 'm a web designer and front end developer and while I can modify simple PHP code , I 'm definitely not a programmer.If I had to use a PHP + MySQL solution , I 'd just use ExpressionEngine ( commercial product ) .
It 's not perfect , but it 's by far the most understandable and workable small-scale CMS I 've ever used.I hope a truly maintainable and usable open source CMS becomes available soon .
Some folks are working on a complete UX overhaul of Drupal , so maybe that will give some glimmer of hope .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The scary thing is that gov agencies and cultural institutions are encouraging each other to adopt Drupal.
Apparently it's the "in" thing, and this really scares me.
We're severely understaffed (with no web apps developers) and the last thing we need is another unmaintainable mess to grapple with.
I'm a web designer and front end developer and while I can modify simple PHP code, I'm definitely not a programmer.If I had to use a PHP + MySQL solution, I'd just use ExpressionEngine (commercial product).
It's not perfect, but it's by far the most understandable and workable small-scale CMS I've ever used.I hope a truly maintainable and usable open source CMS becomes available soon.
Some folks are working on a complete UX overhaul of Drupal, so maybe that will give some glimmer of hope.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010820</id>
	<title>Drupal is impossible unless you're a consultant</title>
	<author>SuperBanana</author>
	<datestamp>1257507780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...who works with it every day.  Then, it's brilliant.

</p><p>I spent 4 hours banging my head against a wall trying to do two things: 1)get a calendar of events up (in any way, shape, or form) and 2)put some boxes on the front page of a site, one for each major category of the blog.  So, to transpose the example to slashdot: a box containing just "idle" story headlines.

</p><p>The calendar bit, I gave up on because it involved creating all sorts of custom data types and forms and views and...jesus christ, why couldn't they just make an "events" module...

</p><p>The box-with-a-category, I also gave up on. Apparently, the "solution" is to dig into PHP in your theme (why themes are chock full of code is beyond me) and edit the files.  Well, except that then when a new version of the theme comes out, you have to port your changes forward.  So instead, you make a copy of the file, install it into a duplicate of the theme's folder structure, tell Drupal your theme is a subtheme of another existing theme, and Drupal makes Magic Happen.

</p><p>Sort of.  The subtheme doesn't inherit critical stuff in the original theme, like the stuff that defines where content boxes can go on the page (ie, the most basic part of the theme: the layout!) so when you load the new theme, all your content completely disappears. Unfuckingbelievable.

</p><p>In the end I threw up my hands in disgust.  I could see the possibilities for a community site (which is what I needed and wanted in the long run), but getting there would have been an endless amount of time learning Drupal internals.  Why the fuck should I have to learn internals to put an event calendar on my blog's sidebar?

</p><p>Oh, and everyone makes out that modules are the second coming of Christ, especially this book, apparently.  Well, as we discovered at work trying to implement a drupal site that sometimes when you enable a module, it runs all over your database, permanently screwing the pooch and requiring a complete restore from backup...a problem exacerbated by the lack of (apparently) refined APIs.  What does that mean?  Well, it means the modules and Drupal very often end up having very specific version requirements...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...who works with it every day .
Then , it 's brilliant .
I spent 4 hours banging my head against a wall trying to do two things : 1 ) get a calendar of events up ( in any way , shape , or form ) and 2 ) put some boxes on the front page of a site , one for each major category of the blog .
So , to transpose the example to slashdot : a box containing just " idle " story headlines .
The calendar bit , I gave up on because it involved creating all sorts of custom data types and forms and views and...jesus christ , why could n't they just make an " events " module.. . The box-with-a-category , I also gave up on .
Apparently , the " solution " is to dig into PHP in your theme ( why themes are chock full of code is beyond me ) and edit the files .
Well , except that then when a new version of the theme comes out , you have to port your changes forward .
So instead , you make a copy of the file , install it into a duplicate of the theme 's folder structure , tell Drupal your theme is a subtheme of another existing theme , and Drupal makes Magic Happen .
Sort of .
The subtheme does n't inherit critical stuff in the original theme , like the stuff that defines where content boxes can go on the page ( ie , the most basic part of the theme : the layout !
) so when you load the new theme , all your content completely disappears .
Unfuckingbelievable . In the end I threw up my hands in disgust .
I could see the possibilities for a community site ( which is what I needed and wanted in the long run ) , but getting there would have been an endless amount of time learning Drupal internals .
Why the fuck should I have to learn internals to put an event calendar on my blog 's sidebar ?
Oh , and everyone makes out that modules are the second coming of Christ , especially this book , apparently .
Well , as we discovered at work trying to implement a drupal site that sometimes when you enable a module , it runs all over your database , permanently screwing the pooch and requiring a complete restore from backup...a problem exacerbated by the lack of ( apparently ) refined APIs .
What does that mean ?
Well , it means the modules and Drupal very often end up having very specific version requirements.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...who works with it every day.
Then, it's brilliant.
I spent 4 hours banging my head against a wall trying to do two things: 1)get a calendar of events up (in any way, shape, or form) and 2)put some boxes on the front page of a site, one for each major category of the blog.
So, to transpose the example to slashdot: a box containing just "idle" story headlines.
The calendar bit, I gave up on because it involved creating all sorts of custom data types and forms and views and...jesus christ, why couldn't they just make an "events" module...

The box-with-a-category, I also gave up on.
Apparently, the "solution" is to dig into PHP in your theme (why themes are chock full of code is beyond me) and edit the files.
Well, except that then when a new version of the theme comes out, you have to port your changes forward.
So instead, you make a copy of the file, install it into a duplicate of the theme's folder structure, tell Drupal your theme is a subtheme of another existing theme, and Drupal makes Magic Happen.
Sort of.
The subtheme doesn't inherit critical stuff in the original theme, like the stuff that defines where content boxes can go on the page (ie, the most basic part of the theme: the layout!
) so when you load the new theme, all your content completely disappears.
Unfuckingbelievable.

In the end I threw up my hands in disgust.
I could see the possibilities for a community site (which is what I needed and wanted in the long run), but getting there would have been an endless amount of time learning Drupal internals.
Why the fuck should I have to learn internals to put an event calendar on my blog's sidebar?
Oh, and everyone makes out that modules are the second coming of Christ, especially this book, apparently.
Well, as we discovered at work trying to implement a drupal site that sometimes when you enable a module, it runs all over your database, permanently screwing the pooch and requiring a complete restore from backup...a problem exacerbated by the lack of (apparently) refined APIs.
What does that mean?
Well, it means the modules and Drupal very often end up having very specific version requirements...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30014868</id>
	<title>Re:Seriously, 264 Pages?!?!?</title>
	<author>nidarus</author>
	<datestamp>1257616620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've seen Packt publishing books. They can make a 500-page book about notepad.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've seen Packt publishing books .
They can make a 500-page book about notepad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've seen Packt publishing books.
They can make a 500-page book about notepad.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30014050</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257605760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It does sux. The antidote to shit CMS's is only a click away though: http://symphony-cms.com/ - a thing of beauty.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It does sux .
The antidote to shit CMS 's is only a click away though : http : //symphony-cms.com/ - a thing of beauty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It does sux.
The antidote to shit CMS's is only a click away though: http://symphony-cms.com/ - a thing of beauty.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010918</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257508560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most of the arguments I see about Drupal are something like "I'm an ordinary Joe, and I couldn't make whitehouse.gov".  So what?  If you know nothing about a complex system, how can you expect to succeed with it immediately?  If PBX systems were as popular as CMS systems, everyone would be running around saying "I tried Asterisk for my home phone and I couldn't figure it out, and therefore it sucks".  Unfortunately Drupal is in a market where everyone is interested in using it, but not everyone has the skills to use it, or the patience to learn it.  If you want easy out of the box, and don't have money to hire someone, use Wordpress...  Meanwhile, Drupal is carving out a deep niche of consultants like myself that CAN and DO make it work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of the arguments I see about Drupal are something like " I 'm an ordinary Joe , and I could n't make whitehouse.gov " .
So what ?
If you know nothing about a complex system , how can you expect to succeed with it immediately ?
If PBX systems were as popular as CMS systems , everyone would be running around saying " I tried Asterisk for my home phone and I could n't figure it out , and therefore it sucks " .
Unfortunately Drupal is in a market where everyone is interested in using it , but not everyone has the skills to use it , or the patience to learn it .
If you want easy out of the box , and do n't have money to hire someone , use Wordpress... Meanwhile , Drupal is carving out a deep niche of consultants like myself that CAN and DO make it work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of the arguments I see about Drupal are something like "I'm an ordinary Joe, and I couldn't make whitehouse.gov".
So what?
If you know nothing about a complex system, how can you expect to succeed with it immediately?
If PBX systems were as popular as CMS systems, everyone would be running around saying "I tried Asterisk for my home phone and I couldn't figure it out, and therefore it sucks".
Unfortunately Drupal is in a market where everyone is interested in using it, but not everyone has the skills to use it, or the patience to learn it.
If you want easy out of the box, and don't have money to hire someone, use Wordpress...  Meanwhile, Drupal is carving out a deep niche of consultants like myself that CAN and DO make it work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011468</id>
	<title>Re:Seriously, 264 Pages?!?!?</title>
	<author>Degro</author>
	<datestamp>1257513540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It doesn't.  This, like most IT books, is just going to be a lot of copy/pasting from the online documentation and a list of what modules to install.  There's handfuls of Drupal modules that are pretty much must-have for most sites that cover this kind of 'missing' functionality.  Each major release of Drupal incorporates more and more of them into the core download, but it's really not that hard to untar a couple extra modules each time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It does n't .
This , like most IT books , is just going to be a lot of copy/pasting from the online documentation and a list of what modules to install .
There 's handfuls of Drupal modules that are pretty much must-have for most sites that cover this kind of 'missing ' functionality .
Each major release of Drupal incorporates more and more of them into the core download , but it 's really not that hard to untar a couple extra modules each time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It doesn't.
This, like most IT books, is just going to be a lot of copy/pasting from the online documentation and a list of what modules to install.
There's handfuls of Drupal modules that are pretty much must-have for most sites that cover this kind of 'missing' functionality.
Each major release of Drupal incorporates more and more of them into the core download, but it's really not that hard to untar a couple extra modules each time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010780</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30016158</id>
	<title>Re:Custom CMS</title>
	<author>itzfritz</author>
	<datestamp>1257625500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This has always been a debated topic. Depending on the needs of your client, or yourself, sometimes it is best just to make a custom CMS. Some non-developer types out there might scoff at this, but think of it this way. You could literally make your own CMS after learning some basic functions of PHP and MySQL.</p> </div><p>Seriously?  You think it's better to rely on *your* own experience to handle every aspect of what should be a large and complex piece of software?  Don't you know what we talk about here on Slashdot?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This has always been a debated topic .
Depending on the needs of your client , or yourself , sometimes it is best just to make a custom CMS .
Some non-developer types out there might scoff at this , but think of it this way .
You could literally make your own CMS after learning some basic functions of PHP and MySQL .
Seriously ? You think it 's better to rely on * your * own experience to handle every aspect of what should be a large and complex piece of software ?
Do n't you know what we talk about here on Slashdot ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This has always been a debated topic.
Depending on the needs of your client, or yourself, sometimes it is best just to make a custom CMS.
Some non-developer types out there might scoff at this, but think of it this way.
You could literally make your own CMS after learning some basic functions of PHP and MySQL.
Seriously?  You think it's better to rely on *your* own experience to handle every aspect of what should be a large and complex piece of software?
Don't you know what we talk about here on Slashdot?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011816</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30013758</id>
	<title>Re:Don't use Drupal. It's a piece of shit.</title>
	<author>vegiVamp</author>
	<datestamp>1257601440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, it's not easy, and most of the 'dozens of optimizations' are not supported, badly documented, and not compatible with later smooth upgrading to newer drupal versions.<br><br>The only reason it "works quite well for small sites on shared hosting", but needs loads of fixes to scale, is that it's incredibly badly written from a database point of view. The more accurate formulation of all that is "it's so crap that it won't scale without extensive hacking with a large axe".</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , it 's not easy , and most of the 'dozens of optimizations ' are not supported , badly documented , and not compatible with later smooth upgrading to newer drupal versions.The only reason it " works quite well for small sites on shared hosting " , but needs loads of fixes to scale , is that it 's incredibly badly written from a database point of view .
The more accurate formulation of all that is " it 's so crap that it wo n't scale without extensive hacking with a large axe " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, it's not easy, and most of the 'dozens of optimizations' are not supported, badly documented, and not compatible with later smooth upgrading to newer drupal versions.The only reason it "works quite well for small sites on shared hosting", but needs loads of fixes to scale, is that it's incredibly badly written from a database point of view.
The more accurate formulation of all that is "it's so crap that it won't scale without extensive hacking with a large axe".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010826</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30013734</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>vegiVamp</author>
	<datestamp>1257601080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Can you then also come to us and make it work WELL ? Sure, it works, but what I especially loathe about it is the way it (ab)uses the database. Dries and his minions' attitude is "we want it to work on as many databases as possible", and the end result is an abomination that works on all but scales on none. Whoever had the bright idea to do explicit full table locks on every table, for every insert ? We've spent more time hacking at the drupal core than we probably would've just writing a custom framework from scratch, and we still get unexpected and ridiculous database connection peaks from time to time. Even squid and memcached don't fix things all the way, because it's apparently nigh impossible to cache pages for logged-in users.<br><br>Bah, rid me of this crud.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Can you then also come to us and make it work WELL ?
Sure , it works , but what I especially loathe about it is the way it ( ab ) uses the database .
Dries and his minions ' attitude is " we want it to work on as many databases as possible " , and the end result is an abomination that works on all but scales on none .
Whoever had the bright idea to do explicit full table locks on every table , for every insert ?
We 've spent more time hacking at the drupal core than we probably would 've just writing a custom framework from scratch , and we still get unexpected and ridiculous database connection peaks from time to time .
Even squid and memcached do n't fix things all the way , because it 's apparently nigh impossible to cache pages for logged-in users.Bah , rid me of this crud .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Can you then also come to us and make it work WELL ?
Sure, it works, but what I especially loathe about it is the way it (ab)uses the database.
Dries and his minions' attitude is "we want it to work on as many databases as possible", and the end result is an abomination that works on all but scales on none.
Whoever had the bright idea to do explicit full table locks on every table, for every insert ?
We've spent more time hacking at the drupal core than we probably would've just writing a custom framework from scratch, and we still get unexpected and ridiculous database connection peaks from time to time.
Even squid and memcached don't fix things all the way, because it's apparently nigh impossible to cache pages for logged-in users.Bah, rid me of this crud.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012228</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal: The Off-the-Shelf CMS...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257524520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's true that when you're creating a big Drupal site, you will spend about as much time as you will be if you did it from scratch.</p><p>The difference is that after you're done, you will have a web application instead of a pile of in-house, poorly maintainable crap.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's true that when you 're creating a big Drupal site , you will spend about as much time as you will be if you did it from scratch.The difference is that after you 're done , you will have a web application instead of a pile of in-house , poorly maintainable crap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's true that when you're creating a big Drupal site, you will spend about as much time as you will be if you did it from scratch.The difference is that after you're done, you will have a web application instead of a pile of in-house, poorly maintainable crap.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011314</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1257512040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Drupal sucks balls.</p></div><p>And yet...</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger's ?!</p></div><p>You seem to realize that there is no CMS which doesn't suck these proverbial balls, that seem to be slurped so often in the world of technology. No, those balls will <em>always</em> be sucked because content management is not a one-size-fits-all situation. Drupal has been advancing, though, and what have you done for the world of free/Free content management systems? Oh, nothing? Well, why don't you go attempt aviary copulation with a ventrally rotating toroidal pastry? At least <em>I've</em> submitted some patches for drupal modules, and helped improve the situaiton, you fucking whiner.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The notion of using the site as you build it is shit, and using an "admin theme" just causes trouble because of the inconsistent behaviors across themes.</p></div><p>You're dumb. Using an admin theme means that you can get in as a last-ditch effort. But the only things you should ever do as Administrator (or whatever you name your first user) are related to system maintenance, and it's good if the theme used for that always works. Any actual content management can be done by another user to whom you have delegated the appropriate rights.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Even its own advocates recommend just writing your own PHP and CSS.</p></div><p>You're talking nonsense again. Themes are written in PHP and CSS, and yes, it is advocated that you develop your own theme... so that your site doesn't look just like everyone else's. Providing a theme with color changes out of the box is just a convenience factor for those who simply want to use Drupal to put up a blog.</p><p>Drupal is being used by hundreds if not thousands of commercial sites and performing its duties brilliantly in many cases. There is probably no other CMS available which suits as many use cases as Drupal. You don't seem to have any alternatives to suggest, so perhaps you should stop whining and contribute some code.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Drupal sucks balls.And yet...Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger 's ?
! You seem to realize that there is no CMS which does n't suck these proverbial balls , that seem to be slurped so often in the world of technology .
No , those balls will always be sucked because content management is not a one-size-fits-all situation .
Drupal has been advancing , though , and what have you done for the world of free/Free content management systems ?
Oh , nothing ?
Well , why do n't you go attempt aviary copulation with a ventrally rotating toroidal pastry ?
At least I 've submitted some patches for drupal modules , and helped improve the situaiton , you fucking whiner.The notion of using the site as you build it is shit , and using an " admin theme " just causes trouble because of the inconsistent behaviors across themes.You 're dumb .
Using an admin theme means that you can get in as a last-ditch effort .
But the only things you should ever do as Administrator ( or whatever you name your first user ) are related to system maintenance , and it 's good if the theme used for that always works .
Any actual content management can be done by another user to whom you have delegated the appropriate rights.Even its own advocates recommend just writing your own PHP and CSS.You 're talking nonsense again .
Themes are written in PHP and CSS , and yes , it is advocated that you develop your own theme... so that your site does n't look just like everyone else 's .
Providing a theme with color changes out of the box is just a convenience factor for those who simply want to use Drupal to put up a blog.Drupal is being used by hundreds if not thousands of commercial sites and performing its duties brilliantly in many cases .
There is probably no other CMS available which suits as many use cases as Drupal .
You do n't seem to have any alternatives to suggest , so perhaps you should stop whining and contribute some code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Drupal sucks balls.And yet...Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger's ?
!You seem to realize that there is no CMS which doesn't suck these proverbial balls, that seem to be slurped so often in the world of technology.
No, those balls will always be sucked because content management is not a one-size-fits-all situation.
Drupal has been advancing, though, and what have you done for the world of free/Free content management systems?
Oh, nothing?
Well, why don't you go attempt aviary copulation with a ventrally rotating toroidal pastry?
At least I've submitted some patches for drupal modules, and helped improve the situaiton, you fucking whiner.The notion of using the site as you build it is shit, and using an "admin theme" just causes trouble because of the inconsistent behaviors across themes.You're dumb.
Using an admin theme means that you can get in as a last-ditch effort.
But the only things you should ever do as Administrator (or whatever you name your first user) are related to system maintenance, and it's good if the theme used for that always works.
Any actual content management can be done by another user to whom you have delegated the appropriate rights.Even its own advocates recommend just writing your own PHP and CSS.You're talking nonsense again.
Themes are written in PHP and CSS, and yes, it is advocated that you develop your own theme... so that your site doesn't look just like everyone else's.
Providing a theme with color changes out of the box is just a convenience factor for those who simply want to use Drupal to put up a blog.Drupal is being used by hundreds if not thousands of commercial sites and performing its duties brilliantly in many cases.
There is probably no other CMS available which suits as many use cases as Drupal.
You don't seem to have any alternatives to suggest, so perhaps you should stop whining and contribute some code.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30015230</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>moosesocks</author>
	<datestamp>1257619080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've heard this criticism (or something fairly similar) levied against virtually every CMS out there.</p><p>As an honest question: Are there any CMSes that buck this trend, or at the very least stand out from the crowd?</p><p>There's no doubt that things have greatly improved from 5 years ago, although it seems as though no clear leader has emerged as "the state of the art."  Wordpress and Drupal seem to have the largest developer communities, although even their own users seem to view the systems as being somehow flawed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've heard this criticism ( or something fairly similar ) levied against virtually every CMS out there.As an honest question : Are there any CMSes that buck this trend , or at the very least stand out from the crowd ? There 's no doubt that things have greatly improved from 5 years ago , although it seems as though no clear leader has emerged as " the state of the art .
" Wordpress and Drupal seem to have the largest developer communities , although even their own users seem to view the systems as being somehow flawed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've heard this criticism (or something fairly similar) levied against virtually every CMS out there.As an honest question: Are there any CMSes that buck this trend, or at the very least stand out from the crowd?There's no doubt that things have greatly improved from 5 years ago, although it seems as though no clear leader has emerged as "the state of the art.
"  Wordpress and Drupal seem to have the largest developer communities, although even their own users seem to view the systems as being somehow flawed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30013806</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257602160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Drupal is carving out a deep niche of consultants</p><p>What language is that supposed to be?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Drupal is carving out a deep niche of consultantsWhat language is that supposed to be ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Drupal is carving out a deep niche of consultantsWhat language is that supposed to be?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010918</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010776</id>
	<title>Drupal: The Off-the-Shelf CMS...</title>
	<author>TheModelEskimo</author>
	<datestamp>1257507480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>...for people who secretly want to do everything from scratch anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...for people who secretly want to do everything from scratch anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...for people who secretly want to do everything from scratch anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011040</id>
	<title>Re:Don't use Drupal. It's a piece of shit.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257509700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Translation:</p><p>We tried to do something hard with Drupal.  It didn't work very well.  We guessed and guessed and guessed how to make it work and didn't find anything that worked.</p><p>We learned that Drupal is fairly complex!</p><p>We found one open source component that wasn't well written, so we stopped using that.</p><p>Our boss finally got fed up with our inability to admit that we didn't know what we were doing, and PAID SOMEONE ELSE to do it for us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Translation : We tried to do something hard with Drupal .
It did n't work very well .
We guessed and guessed and guessed how to make it work and did n't find anything that worked.We learned that Drupal is fairly complex ! We found one open source component that was n't well written , so we stopped using that.Our boss finally got fed up with our inability to admit that we did n't know what we were doing , and PAID SOMEONE ELSE to do it for us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Translation:We tried to do something hard with Drupal.
It didn't work very well.
We guessed and guessed and guessed how to make it work and didn't find anything that worked.We learned that Drupal is fairly complex!We found one open source component that wasn't well written, so we stopped using that.Our boss finally got fed up with our inability to admit that we didn't know what we were doing, and PAID SOMEONE ELSE to do it for us.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30016132</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal is impossible unless you're a consultant</title>
	<author>itzfritz</author>
	<datestamp>1257625320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The box-with-a-category, I also gave up on. Apparently, the "solution" is to dig into PHP in your theme (why themes are chock full of code is beyond me) and edit the files.  Well, except that then when a new version of the theme comes out, you have to port your changes forward.  blah blah blah</p></div><p>Or, you could keep your business logic where it belongs, in a module.  This is modern programming here, not Joe's PHP cms.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The box-with-a-category , I also gave up on .
Apparently , the " solution " is to dig into PHP in your theme ( why themes are chock full of code is beyond me ) and edit the files .
Well , except that then when a new version of the theme comes out , you have to port your changes forward .
blah blah blahOr , you could keep your business logic where it belongs , in a module .
This is modern programming here , not Joe 's PHP cms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The box-with-a-category, I also gave up on.
Apparently, the "solution" is to dig into PHP in your theme (why themes are chock full of code is beyond me) and edit the files.
Well, except that then when a new version of the theme comes out, you have to port your changes forward.
blah blah blahOr, you could keep your business logic where it belongs, in a module.
This is modern programming here, not Joe's PHP cms.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010820</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011876</id>
	<title>From a developing Drupal user</title>
	<author>davecrusoe</author>
	<datestamp>1257518820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hey there,

I've put together a couple sites in Drupal and DotNetNuke recently, and Joomla beforehand, and must state that Drupal is far more useable and powerful than either of the other two CMSs. Here are the general differences:

Drupal is a little more challenging to learn, but far more flexible. I can easily create data types and taxonomies, and relate information across modules and locations in the site. Its theming is relatively simple, and it's not a pain to incorporate social / profile elements in a standard way, across the site. Theming login modules and other user elements is simple enough. Its code is pretty good - very good, in many cases.

On the other hand, DotNetNuke is like legacy software stacked upon legacy software upon legacy software. It has been nothing but trouble. Its modules don't communicate easily with one another and, unless you want to recompile the entire clunky thing, its code is a pain to change around. I definitely don't recommend it for a big-time site, no matter what they state on their homepage. Otherwise, it's somewhat easy to change *content* on pages - but again, not as powerful as Drupal.

Finally Joomla is somewhere in the middle. Very easy to use, but on the other hand, not as powerful. It's fine for a beginning site, but probably not the tool/base I'd choose for a very advanced site with multiple social features and custom needs.

Cheers!
--Dave</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey there , I 've put together a couple sites in Drupal and DotNetNuke recently , and Joomla beforehand , and must state that Drupal is far more useable and powerful than either of the other two CMSs .
Here are the general differences : Drupal is a little more challenging to learn , but far more flexible .
I can easily create data types and taxonomies , and relate information across modules and locations in the site .
Its theming is relatively simple , and it 's not a pain to incorporate social / profile elements in a standard way , across the site .
Theming login modules and other user elements is simple enough .
Its code is pretty good - very good , in many cases .
On the other hand , DotNetNuke is like legacy software stacked upon legacy software upon legacy software .
It has been nothing but trouble .
Its modules do n't communicate easily with one another and , unless you want to recompile the entire clunky thing , its code is a pain to change around .
I definitely do n't recommend it for a big-time site , no matter what they state on their homepage .
Otherwise , it 's somewhat easy to change * content * on pages - but again , not as powerful as Drupal .
Finally Joomla is somewhere in the middle .
Very easy to use , but on the other hand , not as powerful .
It 's fine for a beginning site , but probably not the tool/base I 'd choose for a very advanced site with multiple social features and custom needs .
Cheers ! --Dave</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey there,

I've put together a couple sites in Drupal and DotNetNuke recently, and Joomla beforehand, and must state that Drupal is far more useable and powerful than either of the other two CMSs.
Here are the general differences:

Drupal is a little more challenging to learn, but far more flexible.
I can easily create data types and taxonomies, and relate information across modules and locations in the site.
Its theming is relatively simple, and it's not a pain to incorporate social / profile elements in a standard way, across the site.
Theming login modules and other user elements is simple enough.
Its code is pretty good - very good, in many cases.
On the other hand, DotNetNuke is like legacy software stacked upon legacy software upon legacy software.
It has been nothing but trouble.
Its modules don't communicate easily with one another and, unless you want to recompile the entire clunky thing, its code is a pain to change around.
I definitely don't recommend it for a big-time site, no matter what they state on their homepage.
Otherwise, it's somewhat easy to change *content* on pages - but again, not as powerful as Drupal.
Finally Joomla is somewhere in the middle.
Very easy to use, but on the other hand, not as powerful.
It's fine for a beginning site, but probably not the tool/base I'd choose for a very advanced site with multiple social features and custom needs.
Cheers!
--Dave</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011358</id>
	<title>Drupal Rules</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257512400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>drupal is not hard to use.  the reason it has an 'initially light footprint' is because only essential functionality is packaged with the install.  there are a handful of add-on modules which should be installed for just about any site: CCK, Views, and ImageField/ImageCache/ImageAPI.  once you get the hang of installing these modules (e.g., unzipping the files into the modules directory, loading up the modules admin screen and clicking a checkbox) then you are set to go.</p><p>there doesn't need to be a book about this.  a wiki page, maybe.  in my experience, the only rough thing about drupal is figuring out which modules you want - there are thousands of user-contributed modules, a hundred or so which are good, and a handful which are excellent.  but this could be solved with a better module directory on drupal.org - it doesn't speak against the software.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>drupal is not hard to use .
the reason it has an 'initially light footprint ' is because only essential functionality is packaged with the install .
there are a handful of add-on modules which should be installed for just about any site : CCK , Views , and ImageField/ImageCache/ImageAPI .
once you get the hang of installing these modules ( e.g. , unzipping the files into the modules directory , loading up the modules admin screen and clicking a checkbox ) then you are set to go.there does n't need to be a book about this .
a wiki page , maybe .
in my experience , the only rough thing about drupal is figuring out which modules you want - there are thousands of user-contributed modules , a hundred or so which are good , and a handful which are excellent .
but this could be solved with a better module directory on drupal.org - it does n't speak against the software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>drupal is not hard to use.
the reason it has an 'initially light footprint' is because only essential functionality is packaged with the install.
there are a handful of add-on modules which should be installed for just about any site: CCK, Views, and ImageField/ImageCache/ImageAPI.
once you get the hang of installing these modules (e.g., unzipping the files into the modules directory, loading up the modules admin screen and clicking a checkbox) then you are set to go.there doesn't need to be a book about this.
a wiki page, maybe.
in my experience, the only rough thing about drupal is figuring out which modules you want - there are thousands of user-contributed modules, a hundred or so which are good, and a handful which are excellent.
but this could be solved with a better module directory on drupal.org - it doesn't speak against the software.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30051308</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257847200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Drupal is not for the Sarah Palins of this world.  Sorry to say that, bud, but Drupal's more a toolkit that lets you build your site, not a prebuilt clicky clicky wankfest.</p><p>Those of us who actually use it love it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Drupal is not for the Sarah Palins of this world .
Sorry to say that , bud , but Drupal 's more a toolkit that lets you build your site , not a prebuilt clicky clicky wankfest.Those of us who actually use it love it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Drupal is not for the Sarah Palins of this world.
Sorry to say that, bud, but Drupal's more a toolkit that lets you build your site, not a prebuilt clicky clicky wankfest.Those of us who actually use it love it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30017574</id>
	<title>Re:Drupal Sux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257596400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes. It is called symfony.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes .
It is called symfony .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes.
It is called symfony.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011988</id>
	<title>Drupal: Powerful core engine</title>
	<author>thule</author>
	<datestamp>1257520260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I just started playing with Drupal.  I have not ruled out trying Joomla, but Drupal seems to have pretty good support out there, so I tried it.<br>
<br>
What I like about Drupal is what most graphic design people would hate about it.  Out of the box it is not easy to drop a graphic here some text there and make a site.  Drupal seems to be focused on storing and presenting lots of information in a consistent way.  The admin might make a new type of node in Drupal and give the user some fields to fill out.  To the user it seems very simple to post a news release, a blog, or a podcast.  To the admin the nodes provides a powerful way to keep things consistent and easy to find.<br>
<br>
I will probably check out Joomla and see what it's philosophy is.  All I know is that anything is better than Sharepoint -- what a mess!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I just started playing with Drupal .
I have not ruled out trying Joomla , but Drupal seems to have pretty good support out there , so I tried it .
What I like about Drupal is what most graphic design people would hate about it .
Out of the box it is not easy to drop a graphic here some text there and make a site .
Drupal seems to be focused on storing and presenting lots of information in a consistent way .
The admin might make a new type of node in Drupal and give the user some fields to fill out .
To the user it seems very simple to post a news release , a blog , or a podcast .
To the admin the nodes provides a powerful way to keep things consistent and easy to find .
I will probably check out Joomla and see what it 's philosophy is .
All I know is that anything is better than Sharepoint -- what a mess !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just started playing with Drupal.
I have not ruled out trying Joomla, but Drupal seems to have pretty good support out there, so I tried it.
What I like about Drupal is what most graphic design people would hate about it.
Out of the box it is not easy to drop a graphic here some text there and make a site.
Drupal seems to be focused on storing and presenting lots of information in a consistent way.
The admin might make a new type of node in Drupal and give the user some fields to fill out.
To the user it seems very simple to post a news release, a blog, or a podcast.
To the admin the nodes provides a powerful way to keep things consistent and easy to find.
I will probably check out Joomla and see what it's philosophy is.
All I know is that anything is better than Sharepoint -- what a mess!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010776</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010616</id>
	<title>Drupal and WordPress</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257506640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What do they have in common?</p><p>Changing the theme changes basic functionality of the site.  It's logic-in-template.  Despite the lip service paid to this most essential separation of concerns, it's still considered a legitimate way to add features.  Welcome back to the 90's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What do they have in common ? Changing the theme changes basic functionality of the site .
It 's logic-in-template .
Despite the lip service paid to this most essential separation of concerns , it 's still considered a legitimate way to add features .
Welcome back to the 90 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What do they have in common?Changing the theme changes basic functionality of the site.
It's logic-in-template.
Despite the lip service paid to this most essential separation of concerns, it's still considered a legitimate way to add features.
Welcome back to the 90's.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011502</id>
	<title>Re:On a related note..</title>
	<author>megrims</author>
	<datestamp>1257513900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I recently spent some time working with Drupal/Ubercart.</p><p>As far as shopping-cart software goes, I'd say that the Drupal system has been the most friendly to me as a developer. Magento is (debatably) better structured, but has literally no documentation (and tries to create a ridiculous namespacing system in a language which does not support this). Joomla/Virtuemart and especially Zen-Cart and osCommerce are just a little bit ridiculous in organisation, with similarly limited documentation.</p><p>Almost everything else I've worked with in the last few months (10 or so of them) is not so friendly. I'm surprised at how many people are making money off this kind of software, especially when their products are often poorly planned/documented and limited in functionality at best.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I recently spent some time working with Drupal/Ubercart.As far as shopping-cart software goes , I 'd say that the Drupal system has been the most friendly to me as a developer .
Magento is ( debatably ) better structured , but has literally no documentation ( and tries to create a ridiculous namespacing system in a language which does not support this ) .
Joomla/Virtuemart and especially Zen-Cart and osCommerce are just a little bit ridiculous in organisation , with similarly limited documentation.Almost everything else I 've worked with in the last few months ( 10 or so of them ) is not so friendly .
I 'm surprised at how many people are making money off this kind of software , especially when their products are often poorly planned/documented and limited in functionality at best .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recently spent some time working with Drupal/Ubercart.As far as shopping-cart software goes, I'd say that the Drupal system has been the most friendly to me as a developer.
Magento is (debatably) better structured, but has literally no documentation (and tries to create a ridiculous namespacing system in a language which does not support this).
Joomla/Virtuemart and especially Zen-Cart and osCommerce are just a little bit ridiculous in organisation, with similarly limited documentation.Almost everything else I've worked with in the last few months (10 or so of them) is not so friendly.
I'm surprised at how many people are making money off this kind of software, especially when their products are often poorly planned/documented and limited in functionality at best.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011076</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012350</id>
	<title>Drupal's Great and all.</title>
	<author>/dev/trash</author>
	<datestamp>1257526380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you have a site that either 1) has no users, all anonymous. 2) if you have users, lots of power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have a site that either 1 ) has no users , all anonymous .
2 ) if you have users , lots of power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have a site that either 1) has no users, all anonymous.
2) if you have users, lots of power.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30013758
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012308
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011040
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011424
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010776
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012228
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011988
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_06_1755216.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011382
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010514
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30013750
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_11_06_1755216.17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010726
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011454
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010550
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011496
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010476
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30015230
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010990
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012436
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010918
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011352
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30013734
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30013806
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011944
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30014032
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30017574
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012928
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010842
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011314
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010986
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30051308
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30014824
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30061788
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30014050
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30010780
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30014868
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30011468
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30012172
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_06_1755216.30014616
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