<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_04_0510254</id>
	<title>Is There a Future For Mature Games On Wii?</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1257322980000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>digitalfever writes <i>"There are more than 50 million Wii systems worldwide. Logically, the audience for a wide range of games and interactive experiences should be rather big, but based on the evidence so far, either that's not true &mdash; or <a href="http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/700273/Is-There-A-Future-For-Mature-Games-On-Wii.html">publishers have been hedging the wrong bets</a>. No one has conclusively proved the case for (or against) the viability of mature games on Wii, but 2009 was a litmus test on a number of fronts, including the DS. The results aren't encouraging. "</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>digitalfever writes " There are more than 50 million Wii systems worldwide .
Logically , the audience for a wide range of games and interactive experiences should be rather big , but based on the evidence so far , either that 's not true    or publishers have been hedging the wrong bets .
No one has conclusively proved the case for ( or against ) the viability of mature games on Wii , but 2009 was a litmus test on a number of fronts , including the DS .
The results are n't encouraging .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>digitalfever writes "There are more than 50 million Wii systems worldwide.
Logically, the audience for a wide range of games and interactive experiences should be rather big, but based on the evidence so far, either that's not true — or publishers have been hedging the wrong bets.
No one has conclusively proved the case for (or against) the viability of mature games on Wii, but 2009 was a litmus test on a number of fronts, including the DS.
The results aren't encouraging.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975156</id>
	<title>wii go postal</title>
	<author>Dayofswords</author>
	<datestamp>1256981160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>wii remote for a mature games, use it as a axe for a postal type game would rock</htmltext>
<tokenext>wii remote for a mature games , use it as a axe for a postal type game would rock</tokentext>
<sentencetext>wii remote for a mature games, use it as a axe for a postal type game would rock</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976014</id>
	<title>Re:wii go postal</title>
	<author>snuf23</author>
	<datestamp>1256989680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The closer I get to 40, the more the "mature" games bore the shit out of me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The closer I get to 40 , the more the " mature " games bore the shit out of me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The closer I get to 40, the more the "mature" games bore the shit out of me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975520</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29991680</id>
	<title>"mature" game does not mean good game</title>
	<author>Zork the Almighty</author>
	<datestamp>1257017940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Too many games are retarded, and a lot of people who play them are probably retarded too.  It's like any other form of mass entertainment.  Supposedly "mature" games are mostly mindless violence.  I think "mature" means "appeals to 13 year olds instead of 10 year olds" here.  It's one or two steps up from "My Pony Party".  Do you want a good game for the Wii?  Try Muramasa.  It has a good story, incredible art, and it's a lot of fun to play.  Is that a mature game?  I would say so.  It's a lot more mature than sawing people to death (what the hell?).  Developers: stop complaining that your retarded shit doesn't sell.  I'm sure lots of even more retarded shit sells like hotcakes, and that seems mighty unfair, but nobody cares nor should they care.  Try making something that isn't totally brain dead.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Too many games are retarded , and a lot of people who play them are probably retarded too .
It 's like any other form of mass entertainment .
Supposedly " mature " games are mostly mindless violence .
I think " mature " means " appeals to 13 year olds instead of 10 year olds " here .
It 's one or two steps up from " My Pony Party " .
Do you want a good game for the Wii ?
Try Muramasa .
It has a good story , incredible art , and it 's a lot of fun to play .
Is that a mature game ?
I would say so .
It 's a lot more mature than sawing people to death ( what the hell ? ) .
Developers : stop complaining that your retarded shit does n't sell .
I 'm sure lots of even more retarded shit sells like hotcakes , and that seems mighty unfair , but nobody cares nor should they care .
Try making something that is n't totally brain dead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too many games are retarded, and a lot of people who play them are probably retarded too.
It's like any other form of mass entertainment.
Supposedly "mature" games are mostly mindless violence.
I think "mature" means "appeals to 13 year olds instead of 10 year olds" here.
It's one or two steps up from "My Pony Party".
Do you want a good game for the Wii?
Try Muramasa.
It has a good story, incredible art, and it's a lot of fun to play.
Is that a mature game?
I would say so.
It's a lot more mature than sawing people to death (what the hell?).
Developers: stop complaining that your retarded shit doesn't sell.
I'm sure lots of even more retarded shit sells like hotcakes, and that seems mighty unfair, but nobody cares nor should they care.
Try making something that isn't totally brain dead.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29983600</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257020760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Did he not want cutsy looking, or did he not want childish?  They're two very different things.  Besides, Monster Hunter 3 is NOT 'cutsy' by any definition, and Crystal Chronicles is taking the series in a much more realistic style than previous entries.<br> <br>

RE4 is a port, but is far better than other versions.  House of the Dead:OVerkill isn't a port.  Silent Hill isn't a port, it's a complete rewrite only vaguely based on the first.<br> <br>

You are right about Left for Dead; I meant Dead Rising:Extraction.  Which isn't a port.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Did he not want cutsy looking , or did he not want childish ?
They 're two very different things .
Besides , Monster Hunter 3 is NOT 'cutsy ' by any definition , and Crystal Chronicles is taking the series in a much more realistic style than previous entries .
RE4 is a port , but is far better than other versions .
House of the Dead : OVerkill is n't a port .
Silent Hill is n't a port , it 's a complete rewrite only vaguely based on the first .
You are right about Left for Dead ; I meant Dead Rising : Extraction .
Which is n't a port .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did he not want cutsy looking, or did he not want childish?
They're two very different things.
Besides, Monster Hunter 3 is NOT 'cutsy' by any definition, and Crystal Chronicles is taking the series in a much more realistic style than previous entries.
RE4 is a port, but is far better than other versions.
House of the Dead:OVerkill isn't a port.
Silent Hill isn't a port, it's a complete rewrite only vaguely based on the first.
You are right about Left for Dead; I meant Dead Rising:Extraction.
Which isn't a port.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976834</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29988270</id>
	<title>Re:wii go postal</title>
	<author>Labcoat Samurai</author>
	<datestamp>1256993880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hmmm... is it because you see the sex and violence as a gimmick?  That might be true of some games, but I wouldn't say that's generally true of M-rated games.</p><p>Most western RPGs are M-rated.  Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Dragon Age: Origins, for example.</p><p>Almost all shooters are M-rated, but they vary from the relatively shallow Gears of War (which I still greatly enjoy) to the immersive and emotionally engaging Half-Life 2.</p><p>Basically, a game that features sex or violence is going to tend to be M-rated, but having sex or violence doesn't mean it can't have something more profound going for it, whether it's a great story or great gameplay.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmmm... is it because you see the sex and violence as a gimmick ?
That might be true of some games , but I would n't say that 's generally true of M-rated games.Most western RPGs are M-rated .
Mass Effect , Oblivion , Fallout 3 , and Dragon Age : Origins , for example.Almost all shooters are M-rated , but they vary from the relatively shallow Gears of War ( which I still greatly enjoy ) to the immersive and emotionally engaging Half-Life 2.Basically , a game that features sex or violence is going to tend to be M-rated , but having sex or violence does n't mean it ca n't have something more profound going for it , whether it 's a great story or great gameplay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmmm... is it because you see the sex and violence as a gimmick?
That might be true of some games, but I wouldn't say that's generally true of M-rated games.Most western RPGs are M-rated.
Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Dragon Age: Origins, for example.Almost all shooters are M-rated, but they vary from the relatively shallow Gears of War (which I still greatly enjoy) to the immersive and emotionally engaging Half-Life 2.Basically, a game that features sex or violence is going to tend to be M-rated, but having sex or violence doesn't mean it can't have something more profound going for it, whether it's a great story or great gameplay.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976014</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29981922</id>
	<title>Something the raw console sales don't factor in...</title>
	<author>Kalendraf</author>
	<datestamp>1257016200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>is how much gameplay each system actually gets in any given home.  The gaming platforms in my home include multiple PCs, a 360 and a Wii.  In a typical week, the gameplay (of my wife and me) breaks down to this:<br>
<br>
PC: 12 to 20 hours<br>
360: 12 to 20 hours<br>
Wii: 0 to 2 hours at most, often going up to a month between power-ups<br>
<br>
While our home is technically counted among those with a Wii, from our avg use numbers it looks like we barely qualify being called a Wii household.  I suspect there are other Wii's out there in a similar situation.

If a game that we wanted did come out that is truly multi-platform (Wii, 360, pc, etc), we'd most likely get the PC or 360 version instead.</htmltext>
<tokenext>is how much gameplay each system actually gets in any given home .
The gaming platforms in my home include multiple PCs , a 360 and a Wii .
In a typical week , the gameplay ( of my wife and me ) breaks down to this : PC : 12 to 20 hours 360 : 12 to 20 hours Wii : 0 to 2 hours at most , often going up to a month between power-ups While our home is technically counted among those with a Wii , from our avg use numbers it looks like we barely qualify being called a Wii household .
I suspect there are other Wii 's out there in a similar situation .
If a game that we wanted did come out that is truly multi-platform ( Wii , 360 , pc , etc ) , we 'd most likely get the PC or 360 version instead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>is how much gameplay each system actually gets in any given home.
The gaming platforms in my home include multiple PCs, a 360 and a Wii.
In a typical week, the gameplay (of my wife and me) breaks down to this:

PC: 12 to 20 hours
360: 12 to 20 hours
Wii: 0 to 2 hours at most, often going up to a month between power-ups

While our home is technically counted among those with a Wii, from our avg use numbers it looks like we barely qualify being called a Wii household.
I suspect there are other Wii's out there in a similar situation.
If a game that we wanted did come out that is truly multi-platform (Wii, 360, pc, etc), we'd most likely get the PC or 360 version instead.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976854</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Jiro</author>
	<datestamp>1256998320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"All first party Nintendo games have very simple graphics (childish looking). Gameplay is kind-of-fun but they get old."</p><p>That isn't *quite* true.  The Fire Emblem and Metroid series should be okay, though it depends on your definition of first party.  They are published by Nintendo.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" All first party Nintendo games have very simple graphics ( childish looking ) .
Gameplay is kind-of-fun but they get old .
" That is n't * quite * true .
The Fire Emblem and Metroid series should be okay , though it depends on your definition of first party .
They are published by Nintendo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"All first party Nintendo games have very simple graphics (childish looking).
Gameplay is kind-of-fun but they get old.
"That isn't *quite* true.
The Fire Emblem and Metroid series should be okay, though it depends on your definition of first party.
They are published by Nintendo.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975480</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29979538</id>
	<title>The problem with marketing Wii games</title>
	<author>Millennium</author>
	<datestamp>1257009000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real problem is one of marketing. It's not just a complete failure to market -though frankly many third parties <i>are</i> failing to market their Wii games at all- but also that the few who do market are going about it the wrong way.</p><p>The Wii's market is largely driven by the blue ocean: new gamers who have not been subjected to the marketer-conditioning that makes veteran gamers believe graphics matter. It also contains veteran gamers who have recovered from such conditioning or who never succumbed to it. This means that you cannot market a game to them with shiny trailers and awesome screenshots, the way you do on the HD consoles, because <i>the Wii audience doesn't care about graphics</i>. What they want to know about a game is something that trailers and screenshots cannot tell them: is the game fun?</p><p>How do you market a game to such gamers? Nintendo hit the nail right on the head with its Wii \_\_\_\_\_ series, though given its failure to market its other games this way I have doubts that Nintendo actually knows what it has accomplished here. You take some of your focus off of the pretty pictures and put it on the player: <i>on people having fun with the game</i>. This is what impresses the Wii audience.</p><p>Does it work?  Let's first look at the Wii \_\_\_\_\_ series, which is perhaps the most famous for this marketing style. Most of this generation's best-selling games are there, but let us examine Wii Music: the weakest game of the series, sales-wise. This game was reviled in the gaming press and released into an extremely hostile market, yet it still broke 2.5 million copies: a figure that surpasses even LittleBigPlanet, the biggest success of the "casual HD" market. For all that Wii Music had against it, it still made insane money, largely because of its  marketing. Let us also consider Mario Kart Wii: one of the few games to be marketed this way despite not being in the Wii \_\_\_\_\_ series. It is one of only 20 games in history to break 15 million copies sold, and the only one from this generation that wasn't in the Wii \_\_\_\_\_ series. It far outstrips its own predecessors sales-wise, having successfully broken into the Wii's player base. Coincidence? I believe not.</p><p>So, then, how do you market other games on the Wii? It's simple, if not necessarily easy: convince the Wii audience that the game is fun by focusing on the player. Is it truly so hard for third-parties (and most of Nintendo's own dev teams) to do this? Can it really be that the people playing these games just aren't visibly having any fun? And if that's the case, then what does it say about the games themselves?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real problem is one of marketing .
It 's not just a complete failure to market -though frankly many third parties are failing to market their Wii games at all- but also that the few who do market are going about it the wrong way.The Wii 's market is largely driven by the blue ocean : new gamers who have not been subjected to the marketer-conditioning that makes veteran gamers believe graphics matter .
It also contains veteran gamers who have recovered from such conditioning or who never succumbed to it .
This means that you can not market a game to them with shiny trailers and awesome screenshots , the way you do on the HD consoles , because the Wii audience does n't care about graphics .
What they want to know about a game is something that trailers and screenshots can not tell them : is the game fun ? How do you market a game to such gamers ?
Nintendo hit the nail right on the head with its Wii \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ series , though given its failure to market its other games this way I have doubts that Nintendo actually knows what it has accomplished here .
You take some of your focus off of the pretty pictures and put it on the player : on people having fun with the game .
This is what impresses the Wii audience.Does it work ?
Let 's first look at the Wii \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ series , which is perhaps the most famous for this marketing style .
Most of this generation 's best-selling games are there , but let us examine Wii Music : the weakest game of the series , sales-wise .
This game was reviled in the gaming press and released into an extremely hostile market , yet it still broke 2.5 million copies : a figure that surpasses even LittleBigPlanet , the biggest success of the " casual HD " market .
For all that Wii Music had against it , it still made insane money , largely because of its marketing .
Let us also consider Mario Kart Wii : one of the few games to be marketed this way despite not being in the Wii \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ series .
It is one of only 20 games in history to break 15 million copies sold , and the only one from this generation that was n't in the Wii \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ \ _ series .
It far outstrips its own predecessors sales-wise , having successfully broken into the Wii 's player base .
Coincidence ? I believe not.So , then , how do you market other games on the Wii ?
It 's simple , if not necessarily easy : convince the Wii audience that the game is fun by focusing on the player .
Is it truly so hard for third-parties ( and most of Nintendo 's own dev teams ) to do this ?
Can it really be that the people playing these games just are n't visibly having any fun ?
And if that 's the case , then what does it say about the games themselves ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real problem is one of marketing.
It's not just a complete failure to market -though frankly many third parties are failing to market their Wii games at all- but also that the few who do market are going about it the wrong way.The Wii's market is largely driven by the blue ocean: new gamers who have not been subjected to the marketer-conditioning that makes veteran gamers believe graphics matter.
It also contains veteran gamers who have recovered from such conditioning or who never succumbed to it.
This means that you cannot market a game to them with shiny trailers and awesome screenshots, the way you do on the HD consoles, because the Wii audience doesn't care about graphics.
What they want to know about a game is something that trailers and screenshots cannot tell them: is the game fun?How do you market a game to such gamers?
Nintendo hit the nail right on the head with its Wii \_\_\_\_\_ series, though given its failure to market its other games this way I have doubts that Nintendo actually knows what it has accomplished here.
You take some of your focus off of the pretty pictures and put it on the player: on people having fun with the game.
This is what impresses the Wii audience.Does it work?
Let's first look at the Wii \_\_\_\_\_ series, which is perhaps the most famous for this marketing style.
Most of this generation's best-selling games are there, but let us examine Wii Music: the weakest game of the series, sales-wise.
This game was reviled in the gaming press and released into an extremely hostile market, yet it still broke 2.5 million copies: a figure that surpasses even LittleBigPlanet, the biggest success of the "casual HD" market.
For all that Wii Music had against it, it still made insane money, largely because of its  marketing.
Let us also consider Mario Kart Wii: one of the few games to be marketed this way despite not being in the Wii \_\_\_\_\_ series.
It is one of only 20 games in history to break 15 million copies sold, and the only one from this generation that wasn't in the Wii \_\_\_\_\_ series.
It far outstrips its own predecessors sales-wise, having successfully broken into the Wii's player base.
Coincidence? I believe not.So, then, how do you market other games on the Wii?
It's simple, if not necessarily easy: convince the Wii audience that the game is fun by focusing on the player.
Is it truly so hard for third-parties (and most of Nintendo's own dev teams) to do this?
Can it really be that the people playing these games just aren't visibly having any fun?
And if that's the case, then what does it say about the games themselves?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.30004734</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257516120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your fixation on the idea that a game absolutely has to have "adult" themes and visuals in order to be worthy is more childish than any Wii game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your fixation on the idea that a game absolutely has to have " adult " themes and visuals in order to be worthy is more childish than any Wii game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your fixation on the idea that a game absolutely has to have "adult" themes and visuals in order to be worthy is more childish than any Wii game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29982944</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977334</id>
	<title>Re:Yes</title>
	<author>JoeCommodore</author>
	<datestamp>1257000900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here is the obigitory SNL clip on this,</p><p>warning may be NSFW</p><p><a href="http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/wii-guys/1018727/" title="nbc.com">http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/wii-guys/1018727/</a> [nbc.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here is the obigitory SNL clip on this,warning may be NSFWhttp : //www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/wii-guys/1018727/ [ nbc.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here is the obigitory SNL clip on this,warning may be NSFWhttp://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/wii-guys/1018727/ [nbc.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975436</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975576</id>
	<title>Hardcore</title>
	<author>Grey Ninja</author>
	<datestamp>1256985180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Resident Evil 4 was one of the best selling Wii games.  Just because The Conduit and Mad World didn't sell well, does not mean that there's not a market for M rated games.  Fact of the matter is that they just weren't very good games, regardless of what the media said.<br> <br>

<a href="http://kotaku.com/5395956/the-10-most-avidly+played-wii-games-in-america-as-of-nov-1" title="kotaku.com">http://kotaku.com/5395956/the-10-most-avidly+played-wii-games-in-america-as-of-nov-1</a> [kotaku.com] <br> <br>

Honestly, look at that chart.  I'm seeing a shitload of hardcore games there (no, I don't judge whether a game is for the hardcore or not by the rating, any more than I judge movies that way).  What I'm not seeing a lot of is deca sports and catz, regardless of what the media tells you.  The Wii market is starving for hardcore games, and the 3rd parties just simply have not delivered.  Nintendo sat this one out and made casual games, because the 3rd parties have been bitching bitterly for years that they can't compete with Nintendo.  And what do they do?  They follow in Nintendo's footsteps again.  Pathetic.<br> <br>

Nintendo just needs to come back and rule the roost again.  Metroid: Other M is a good start.  New Super Mario Bros Wii, Mario Galaxy 2, and the rumoured <a href="http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176757" title="1up.com">new Zelda</a> [1up.com] should do the trick.  Hardcore gamers still own their Wiis.  They just aren't buying anything because there's fuck all to play.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Resident Evil 4 was one of the best selling Wii games .
Just because The Conduit and Mad World did n't sell well , does not mean that there 's not a market for M rated games .
Fact of the matter is that they just were n't very good games , regardless of what the media said .
http : //kotaku.com/5395956/the-10-most-avidly + played-wii-games-in-america-as-of-nov-1 [ kotaku.com ] Honestly , look at that chart .
I 'm seeing a shitload of hardcore games there ( no , I do n't judge whether a game is for the hardcore or not by the rating , any more than I judge movies that way ) .
What I 'm not seeing a lot of is deca sports and catz , regardless of what the media tells you .
The Wii market is starving for hardcore games , and the 3rd parties just simply have not delivered .
Nintendo sat this one out and made casual games , because the 3rd parties have been bitching bitterly for years that they ca n't compete with Nintendo .
And what do they do ?
They follow in Nintendo 's footsteps again .
Pathetic . Nintendo just needs to come back and rule the roost again .
Metroid : Other M is a good start .
New Super Mario Bros Wii , Mario Galaxy 2 , and the rumoured new Zelda [ 1up.com ] should do the trick .
Hardcore gamers still own their Wiis .
They just are n't buying anything because there 's fuck all to play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Resident Evil 4 was one of the best selling Wii games.
Just because The Conduit and Mad World didn't sell well, does not mean that there's not a market for M rated games.
Fact of the matter is that they just weren't very good games, regardless of what the media said.
http://kotaku.com/5395956/the-10-most-avidly+played-wii-games-in-america-as-of-nov-1 [kotaku.com]  

Honestly, look at that chart.
I'm seeing a shitload of hardcore games there (no, I don't judge whether a game is for the hardcore or not by the rating, any more than I judge movies that way).
What I'm not seeing a lot of is deca sports and catz, regardless of what the media tells you.
The Wii market is starving for hardcore games, and the 3rd parties just simply have not delivered.
Nintendo sat this one out and made casual games, because the 3rd parties have been bitching bitterly for years that they can't compete with Nintendo.
And what do they do?
They follow in Nintendo's footsteps again.
Pathetic. 

Nintendo just needs to come back and rule the roost again.
Metroid: Other M is a good start.
New Super Mario Bros Wii, Mario Galaxy 2, and the rumoured new Zelda [1up.com] should do the trick.
Hardcore gamers still own their Wiis.
They just aren't buying anything because there's fuck all to play.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29982782</id>
	<title>Re:wii go postal</title>
	<author>Nakarti</author>
	<datestamp>1257018540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not the only one who thought 'mature' as in older games, but the article is referring to Mature rated games, which is to say games that you have to be mature to not imitate.</p><p>Although sometimes I really want to...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not the only one who thought 'mature ' as in older games , but the article is referring to Mature rated games , which is to say games that you have to be mature to not imitate.Although sometimes I really want to.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not the only one who thought 'mature' as in older games, but the article is referring to Mature rated games, which is to say games that you have to be mature to not imitate.Although sometimes I really want to...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975520</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975638</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256985780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most Wii games are shit.  But there's a few gems amidst the rough.  Mario Galaxy might be the best game this generation.  Metroid Prime 3 is worth a play, and if you haven't played Resident Evil 4 yet, the Wii version is the definitive version of the game.  There's also Zack and Wiki, Mario Kart, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl.  I hear that they are all good, but I haven't spent a lot of time with them yet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most Wii games are shit .
But there 's a few gems amidst the rough .
Mario Galaxy might be the best game this generation .
Metroid Prime 3 is worth a play , and if you have n't played Resident Evil 4 yet , the Wii version is the definitive version of the game .
There 's also Zack and Wiki , Mario Kart , and Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I hear that they are all good , but I have n't spent a lot of time with them yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most Wii games are shit.
But there's a few gems amidst the rough.
Mario Galaxy might be the best game this generation.
Metroid Prime 3 is worth a play, and if you haven't played Resident Evil 4 yet, the Wii version is the definitive version of the game.
There's also Zack and Wiki, Mario Kart, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl.  I hear that they are all good, but I haven't spent a lot of time with them yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29988600</id>
	<title>New Wiimote?</title>
	<author>mhajicek</author>
	<datestamp>1256995500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The new controller for mature games would need to have force feedback and be waterproof and washable.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The new controller for mature games would need to have force feedback and be waterproof and washable .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The new controller for mature games would need to have force feedback and be waterproof and washable.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29989552</id>
	<title>Three words of advice for Wii game developers:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257000420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> Leisure Suit Larry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Leisure Suit Larry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Leisure Suit Larry.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977342</id>
	<title>Balls out boys!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257000900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's Wii strokin' time!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's Wii strokin ' time ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's Wii strokin' time!!
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29982944</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Nakarti</author>
	<datestamp>1257019020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No. But the \_expected\_ target audience of Nintendo owners are children, so those are the most heavily advertised for Wii. They somehow didn't notice that we original NES owners GREW UP. We got old, but never stopped enjoying games. I have tried half a dozen games on the Wii, two of them Final Fantasy games, and I would probably enjoy the mechanics a lot more if they didn't plaster CHILD all over the screen with baby this and baby that. Enough of the baby bullshit, just give me a game!</p><p>I'm an adult now, please stop advertising to me-20-years-ago.</p><p>(Almost kept Star Wars: Force Unleashed, but while it was a mature theme, the mechanics relied on childish button mashing....)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
But the \ _expected \ _ target audience of Nintendo owners are children , so those are the most heavily advertised for Wii .
They somehow did n't notice that we original NES owners GREW UP .
We got old , but never stopped enjoying games .
I have tried half a dozen games on the Wii , two of them Final Fantasy games , and I would probably enjoy the mechanics a lot more if they did n't plaster CHILD all over the screen with baby this and baby that .
Enough of the baby bullshit , just give me a game ! I 'm an adult now , please stop advertising to me-20-years-ago .
( Almost kept Star Wars : Force Unleashed , but while it was a mature theme , the mechanics relied on childish button mashing.... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
But the \_expected\_ target audience of Nintendo owners are children, so those are the most heavily advertised for Wii.
They somehow didn't notice that we original NES owners GREW UP.
We got old, but never stopped enjoying games.
I have tried half a dozen games on the Wii, two of them Final Fantasy games, and I would probably enjoy the mechanics a lot more if they didn't plaster CHILD all over the screen with baby this and baby that.
Enough of the baby bullshit, just give me a game!I'm an adult now, please stop advertising to me-20-years-ago.
(Almost kept Star Wars: Force Unleashed, but while it was a mature theme, the mechanics relied on childish button mashing....)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977682</id>
	<title>You didn't play Dead Space very long did you?</title>
	<author>pizzach</author>
	<datestamp>1257002520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Just recently I got Deadspace for the Wii (an FPS) and it turns out you can't even control the movement of your character - the game boils down to, as your character moves on his own, moving your aiming reticule as fast as possible to aim at the head of whatever comes your way and pressing button and pressing other-button to open doors and other such "puzzles". You could train a monkey to beat that game.</p></div><p>You lose the game by aiming only for the head.  The series is famous for its "strategic dismemberment".  I recommend you google it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just recently I got Deadspace for the Wii ( an FPS ) and it turns out you ca n't even control the movement of your character - the game boils down to , as your character moves on his own , moving your aiming reticule as fast as possible to aim at the head of whatever comes your way and pressing button and pressing other-button to open doors and other such " puzzles " .
You could train a monkey to beat that game.You lose the game by aiming only for the head .
The series is famous for its " strategic dismemberment " .
I recommend you google it .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just recently I got Deadspace for the Wii (an FPS) and it turns out you can't even control the movement of your character - the game boils down to, as your character moves on his own, moving your aiming reticule as fast as possible to aim at the head of whatever comes your way and pressing button and pressing other-button to open doors and other such "puzzles".
You could train a monkey to beat that game.You lose the game by aiming only for the head.
The series is famous for its "strategic dismemberment".
I recommend you google it.
:)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976054</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29992036</id>
	<title>New Mechwarrior on Wii?!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257454680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now this is something I'd give a pint of blood and my left kidney for (the left one is shot anyway!!).  The thought of assuming the "Robot stance" and doing a little "robot dance" in order to control the mech has an odd appeal!! (No, I don't get out much)</p><p>The problem with the so called mature games is that they usually involve lots of complex controls that require an appropriate controller to handle - usually a keyboard or some sort of uber gamer controller with a gazillion keys. The Wii controller is great for handling all the motion capture stuff, but it's button UI leaves a lot to be desired if you want to go beyond the simple ABCZ set.  Adding tricky little motions means that sometimes you end up waving when you meant to be punching.  If Wii is to be taken seriously, purpose-built controllers need to be looked at in greater detail to take Wii beyond the cutsy motion capture in use today.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now this is something I 'd give a pint of blood and my left kidney for ( the left one is shot anyway ! ! ) .
The thought of assuming the " Robot stance " and doing a little " robot dance " in order to control the mech has an odd appeal ! !
( No , I do n't get out much ) The problem with the so called mature games is that they usually involve lots of complex controls that require an appropriate controller to handle - usually a keyboard or some sort of uber gamer controller with a gazillion keys .
The Wii controller is great for handling all the motion capture stuff , but it 's button UI leaves a lot to be desired if you want to go beyond the simple ABCZ set .
Adding tricky little motions means that sometimes you end up waving when you meant to be punching .
If Wii is to be taken seriously , purpose-built controllers need to be looked at in greater detail to take Wii beyond the cutsy motion capture in use today .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now this is something I'd give a pint of blood and my left kidney for (the left one is shot anyway!!).
The thought of assuming the "Robot stance" and doing a little "robot dance" in order to control the mech has an odd appeal!!
(No, I don't get out much)The problem with the so called mature games is that they usually involve lots of complex controls that require an appropriate controller to handle - usually a keyboard or some sort of uber gamer controller with a gazillion keys.
The Wii controller is great for handling all the motion capture stuff, but it's button UI leaves a lot to be desired if you want to go beyond the simple ABCZ set.
Adding tricky little motions means that sometimes you end up waving when you meant to be punching.
If Wii is to be taken seriously, purpose-built controllers need to be looked at in greater detail to take Wii beyond the cutsy motion capture in use today.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975262</id>
	<title>wrong definition of mature</title>
	<author>Trepidity</author>
	<datestamp>1256982000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Wii has plenty of games for "mature audiences", like your grandmother.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Wii has plenty of games for " mature audiences " , like your grandmother .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Wii has plenty of games for "mature audiences", like your grandmother.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29982990</id>
	<title>Flamewar!</title>
	<author>czarangelus</author>
	<datestamp>1257019140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Since this is becoming a console flamewar, I own both a PS3 and a Wii. I am happy with both of them. I play Bioshock and Fallout on the PS3. I play Wii Sports, HotD Overkill, and Mario Galaxy on the Wii. When I have friends over, it's usually the Wii that gets booted up. When I want an immersive single player experience, it's the PS3. They're both have some really fun games. They both have some total crap. What's the big deal?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Since this is becoming a console flamewar , I own both a PS3 and a Wii .
I am happy with both of them .
I play Bioshock and Fallout on the PS3 .
I play Wii Sports , HotD Overkill , and Mario Galaxy on the Wii .
When I have friends over , it 's usually the Wii that gets booted up .
When I want an immersive single player experience , it 's the PS3 .
They 're both have some really fun games .
They both have some total crap .
What 's the big deal ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since this is becoming a console flamewar, I own both a PS3 and a Wii.
I am happy with both of them.
I play Bioshock and Fallout on the PS3.
I play Wii Sports, HotD Overkill, and Mario Galaxy on the Wii.
When I have friends over, it's usually the Wii that gets booted up.
When I want an immersive single player experience, it's the PS3.
They're both have some really fun games.
They both have some total crap.
What's the big deal?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975560</id>
	<title>Sold my Wii</title>
	<author>muffen</author>
	<datestamp>1256985000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Too little too late.
<br>
I bought a Wii a few months after release, hooked it up, played Wii sports and thought "this is cool".
<br>
A month later I sold the Wii because of the following.
<br>
1) Horrible Graphics compared to the XBOX 360 I had at the time (got a PS3 now).
<br>
2) Games were fun to play with others but for some reason I couldn't find that many people to play with at 1 AM.
<br>
3) No good singleplayer titles that I could play online.
<br> <br>
To be honest, the XBOX 360 was better then the Wii in every aspect except social gaming, and although my girlfriend would play sometimes, in the month I had the Wii, after the first week, I hardly ever turned it on.
<br> <br>
Finally, the majority of people I know who like console gaming who have a Wii, also have either the XBOX 360 or a PS3.
<br>
Nintendo did find a nice segment and are not competing with the other consoles as much as MSoft and Sony are competing with eachother, but I have to agree with TFA, that segment does not include many single-player online gamers.
<br> <br>
Now back to COD 4 on the PS3, feel the wrath of my P90!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Too little too late .
I bought a Wii a few months after release , hooked it up , played Wii sports and thought " this is cool " .
A month later I sold the Wii because of the following .
1 ) Horrible Graphics compared to the XBOX 360 I had at the time ( got a PS3 now ) .
2 ) Games were fun to play with others but for some reason I could n't find that many people to play with at 1 AM .
3 ) No good singleplayer titles that I could play online .
To be honest , the XBOX 360 was better then the Wii in every aspect except social gaming , and although my girlfriend would play sometimes , in the month I had the Wii , after the first week , I hardly ever turned it on .
Finally , the majority of people I know who like console gaming who have a Wii , also have either the XBOX 360 or a PS3 .
Nintendo did find a nice segment and are not competing with the other consoles as much as MSoft and Sony are competing with eachother , but I have to agree with TFA , that segment does not include many single-player online gamers .
Now back to COD 4 on the PS3 , feel the wrath of my P90 !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too little too late.
I bought a Wii a few months after release, hooked it up, played Wii sports and thought "this is cool".
A month later I sold the Wii because of the following.
1) Horrible Graphics compared to the XBOX 360 I had at the time (got a PS3 now).
2) Games were fun to play with others but for some reason I couldn't find that many people to play with at 1 AM.
3) No good singleplayer titles that I could play online.
To be honest, the XBOX 360 was better then the Wii in every aspect except social gaming, and although my girlfriend would play sometimes, in the month I had the Wii, after the first week, I hardly ever turned it on.
Finally, the majority of people I know who like console gaming who have a Wii, also have either the XBOX 360 or a PS3.
Nintendo did find a nice segment and are not competing with the other consoles as much as MSoft and Sony are competing with eachother, but I have to agree with TFA, that segment does not include many single-player online gamers.
Now back to COD 4 on the PS3, feel the wrath of my P90!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975284</id>
	<title>Mapouka</title>
	<author>Anne Thwacks</author>
	<datestamp>1256982360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>When is "International Mapouka Challenge" going to be released?</htmltext>
<tokenext>When is " International Mapouka Challenge " going to be released ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When is "International Mapouka Challenge" going to be released?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976668</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Clovis42</author>
	<datestamp>1256996520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Some of the games for the Wii you could consider 'mature' in the gritty/violent sense are: No More Heroes. The Conduit. Madworld. Resident Evil 4. House of the Dead: Maximum Overkill. Dead Space: Extraction. <strong>Left for Dead</strong>. Onechanbara: Bikini Zombie Slayers</p></div></blockquote><p>Did you mean Left 4 Dead? Because that has definitely not been released on the Wii.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of the games for the Wii you could consider 'mature ' in the gritty/violent sense are : No More Heroes .
The Conduit .
Madworld. Resident Evil 4 .
House of the Dead : Maximum Overkill .
Dead Space : Extraction .
Left for Dead .
Onechanbara : Bikini Zombie SlayersDid you mean Left 4 Dead ?
Because that has definitely not been released on the Wii .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of the games for the Wii you could consider 'mature' in the gritty/violent sense are: No More Heroes.
The Conduit.
Madworld. Resident Evil 4.
House of the Dead: Maximum Overkill.
Dead Space: Extraction.
Left for Dead.
Onechanbara: Bikini Zombie SlayersDid you mean Left 4 Dead?
Because that has definitely not been released on the Wii.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29994990</id>
	<title>Wiki? Console games don't have mods.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257437400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There's also Zack and Wiki</p></div><p>Wiki? As in I can go in and edit every level? No wait, I can't, because console games don't have mods.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's also Zack and WikiWiki ?
As in I can go in and edit every level ?
No wait , I ca n't , because console games do n't have mods .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's also Zack and WikiWiki?
As in I can go in and edit every level?
No wait, I can't, because console games don't have mods.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975328</id>
	<title>Why and why</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256982660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Firstly, why does the content have to be M rated to be for a mature audience?<br> <br>

Secondly, why would they want to target that market? PS3 and xbox 360 are in tight competition for that market. It seems the cost and risk of competing in that market is high, while the potential pay off is low (How much money is MS making from the 360 again?). For Nintendo targeting children, families, casual gamers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.etc. makes great sense and is proving very successful.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Firstly , why does the content have to be M rated to be for a mature audience ?
Secondly , why would they want to target that market ?
PS3 and xbox 360 are in tight competition for that market .
It seems the cost and risk of competing in that market is high , while the potential pay off is low ( How much money is MS making from the 360 again ? ) .
For Nintendo targeting children , families , casual gamers .etc .
makes great sense and is proving very successful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Firstly, why does the content have to be M rated to be for a mature audience?
Secondly, why would they want to target that market?
PS3 and xbox 360 are in tight competition for that market.
It seems the cost and risk of competing in that market is high, while the potential pay off is low (How much money is MS making from the 360 again?).
For Nintendo targeting children, families, casual gamers .etc.
makes great sense and is proving very successful.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977598</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>psm321</author>
	<datestamp>1257002100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And then there's those of us who like the blocky bright games and buy the Wii because of them.  I see no real reason to get a PS3 or Xbox 360 when the vast majority of games are dark and not cartoony. <a href="http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/11/blue-sky-in-games-campaign-launched.html" title="ukresistance.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/11/blue-sky-in-games-campaign-launched.html</a> [ukresistance.co.uk]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And then there 's those of us who like the blocky bright games and buy the Wii because of them .
I see no real reason to get a PS3 or Xbox 360 when the vast majority of games are dark and not cartoony .
http : //www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/11/blue-sky-in-games-campaign-launched.html [ ukresistance.co.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And then there's those of us who like the blocky bright games and buy the Wii because of them.
I see no real reason to get a PS3 or Xbox 360 when the vast majority of games are dark and not cartoony.
http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/11/blue-sky-in-games-campaign-launched.html [ukresistance.co.uk]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977656</id>
	<title>Re:wii go postal</title>
	<author>socrplayr813</author>
	<datestamp>1257002400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think the mature label is more about the <i>potential</i> for gore, sex, and adult themes.  I prefer to think of mature games as the games equivalent of R-rated movies (ie. story-heavy games are very much like interactive movies).  Many (good) R-rated movies would be less effective at telling their stories if all of the violence, gore, and sex were removed.  They're not necessary for a good story, but they can be useful story-telling tools.  Without them, it can be more difficult to illustrate the impact of events and emotions.  I also think it's silly to arbitrarily mask these things just because they can be distasteful.  They're a part of our being whether we like to admit it or not.</p><p>I feel I should also point out that there's no reason to label a game as mature if there is no significant gore or sex, as those are about the only things that kids are typically not supposed to see and experience (US-centric view; get over it, mods).</p><p>That said, I agree that there is a tendency for most 'mature' games right now to be about nothing BUT gore and sex.  I do hope that will change as the medium continues to develop.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the mature label is more about the potential for gore , sex , and adult themes .
I prefer to think of mature games as the games equivalent of R-rated movies ( ie .
story-heavy games are very much like interactive movies ) .
Many ( good ) R-rated movies would be less effective at telling their stories if all of the violence , gore , and sex were removed .
They 're not necessary for a good story , but they can be useful story-telling tools .
Without them , it can be more difficult to illustrate the impact of events and emotions .
I also think it 's silly to arbitrarily mask these things just because they can be distasteful .
They 're a part of our being whether we like to admit it or not.I feel I should also point out that there 's no reason to label a game as mature if there is no significant gore or sex , as those are about the only things that kids are typically not supposed to see and experience ( US-centric view ; get over it , mods ) .That said , I agree that there is a tendency for most 'mature ' games right now to be about nothing BUT gore and sex .
I do hope that will change as the medium continues to develop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the mature label is more about the potential for gore, sex, and adult themes.
I prefer to think of mature games as the games equivalent of R-rated movies (ie.
story-heavy games are very much like interactive movies).
Many (good) R-rated movies would be less effective at telling their stories if all of the violence, gore, and sex were removed.
They're not necessary for a good story, but they can be useful story-telling tools.
Without them, it can be more difficult to illustrate the impact of events and emotions.
I also think it's silly to arbitrarily mask these things just because they can be distasteful.
They're a part of our being whether we like to admit it or not.I feel I should also point out that there's no reason to label a game as mature if there is no significant gore or sex, as those are about the only things that kids are typically not supposed to see and experience (US-centric view; get over it, mods).That said, I agree that there is a tendency for most 'mature' games right now to be about nothing BUT gore and sex.
I do hope that will change as the medium continues to develop.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975520</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.30006742</id>
	<title>Lotsa words in that article, not a lot of insight.</title>
	<author>mccabem</author>
	<datestamp>1257530040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just looking at Nintendo and the Wii rationally, Nintendo couldn't have painted a cleared picture of what the Wii was supposed to be to consumers:   A family and/or group oriented gaming console.  It just couldn't have been clearer.   They sold *a lot* of consoles on this basis!   The games that the article cite as not doing well all made me say to myself (as a Wii owner, and near middle-aged gamer):  Little wonder.  They do not look interesting.

</p><p>My opinion may have been different 25 years ago, but honestly playing Seven Cities of Gold, Rescue on Fractalus or MULE (some games from 25 years ago) on my old Atari 800 still sounds more appealing than a session of any of those games in the article.   I think that's the problem with these games that don't do well:  They aren't fun.

</p><p>No, "harcore gamer" opinions on this don't count.  That's a rarified market composed almost exclusively of teens (or younger).   And going back to the beginning of my statement, it's not who Nintendo has been targeting *or selling* their console to.

</p><p>Personally, I'm still pleased with Wii Sports (will be upgrading to Sports Resort when the budget allows), Play, Mario Kart Wii (the only Mario game I've ever really liked after Mario Bros), Zack &amp; Wiki, Punchout!, among several others.   I've also got a slew of WiWare games.   I love "Cards" - best Euchre game I've seen on any computer platform; has several other card games as well.   Donkey Kong, DK Jr, Spellunker and Load Runner are all great games to sit down and play for a few minutes.

</p><p>I can't speak for Nintendo to say how this is working out for them, but from my angle as a customer, I'm pleased with the experience *and* that I only spent $200 vs $400+ on a new console.  Go Nintendo!

</p><p>-Matt</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just looking at Nintendo and the Wii rationally , Nintendo could n't have painted a cleared picture of what the Wii was supposed to be to consumers : A family and/or group oriented gaming console .
It just could n't have been clearer .
They sold * a lot * of consoles on this basis !
The games that the article cite as not doing well all made me say to myself ( as a Wii owner , and near middle-aged gamer ) : Little wonder .
They do not look interesting .
My opinion may have been different 25 years ago , but honestly playing Seven Cities of Gold , Rescue on Fractalus or MULE ( some games from 25 years ago ) on my old Atari 800 still sounds more appealing than a session of any of those games in the article .
I think that 's the problem with these games that do n't do well : They are n't fun .
No , " harcore gamer " opinions on this do n't count .
That 's a rarified market composed almost exclusively of teens ( or younger ) .
And going back to the beginning of my statement , it 's not who Nintendo has been targeting * or selling * their console to .
Personally , I 'm still pleased with Wii Sports ( will be upgrading to Sports Resort when the budget allows ) , Play , Mario Kart Wii ( the only Mario game I 've ever really liked after Mario Bros ) , Zack &amp; Wiki , Punchout ! , among several others .
I 've also got a slew of WiWare games .
I love " Cards " - best Euchre game I 've seen on any computer platform ; has several other card games as well .
Donkey Kong , DK Jr , Spellunker and Load Runner are all great games to sit down and play for a few minutes .
I ca n't speak for Nintendo to say how this is working out for them , but from my angle as a customer , I 'm pleased with the experience * and * that I only spent $ 200 vs $ 400 + on a new console .
Go Nintendo !
-Matt</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just looking at Nintendo and the Wii rationally, Nintendo couldn't have painted a cleared picture of what the Wii was supposed to be to consumers:   A family and/or group oriented gaming console.
It just couldn't have been clearer.
They sold *a lot* of consoles on this basis!
The games that the article cite as not doing well all made me say to myself (as a Wii owner, and near middle-aged gamer):  Little wonder.
They do not look interesting.
My opinion may have been different 25 years ago, but honestly playing Seven Cities of Gold, Rescue on Fractalus or MULE (some games from 25 years ago) on my old Atari 800 still sounds more appealing than a session of any of those games in the article.
I think that's the problem with these games that don't do well:  They aren't fun.
No, "harcore gamer" opinions on this don't count.
That's a rarified market composed almost exclusively of teens (or younger).
And going back to the beginning of my statement, it's not who Nintendo has been targeting *or selling* their console to.
Personally, I'm still pleased with Wii Sports (will be upgrading to Sports Resort when the budget allows), Play, Mario Kart Wii (the only Mario game I've ever really liked after Mario Bros), Zack &amp; Wiki, Punchout!, among several others.
I've also got a slew of WiWare games.
I love "Cards" - best Euchre game I've seen on any computer platform; has several other card games as well.
Donkey Kong, DK Jr, Spellunker and Load Runner are all great games to sit down and play for a few minutes.
I can't speak for Nintendo to say how this is working out for them, but from my angle as a customer, I'm pleased with the experience *and* that I only spent $200 vs $400+ on a new console.
Go Nintendo!
-Matt</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977216</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257000360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Most Wii games are shit.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon's\_law" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">And so are most games released on any console for that matter.</a> [wikipedia.org] What's your point?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most Wii games are shit .
And so are most games released on any console for that matter .
[ wikipedia.org ] What 's your point ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most Wii games are shit.
And so are most games released on any console for that matter.
[wikipedia.org] What's your point?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29993204</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257425580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Some of the games for the Wii you could consider 'mature' in the gritty/violent sense</p></div></blockquote><p>I'm more interested in games that I could consider 'mature' in the boobies sense<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of the games for the Wii you could consider 'mature ' in the gritty/violent senseI 'm more interested in games that I could consider 'mature ' in the boobies sense : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of the games for the Wii you could consider 'mature' in the gritty/violent senseI'm more interested in games that I could consider 'mature' in the boobies sense :-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975162</id>
	<title>No</title>
	<author>xtracto</author>
	<datestamp>1256981220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, the two Wii owners who expected mature games on the wii (I am one of them) have already given up.</p><p>Next questions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , the two Wii owners who expected mature games on the wii ( I am one of them ) have already given up.Next questions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, the two Wii owners who expected mature games on the wii (I am one of them) have already given up.Next questions.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29979346</id>
	<title>I'm 50 and somewhat disapointed with new Wii</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257008400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just got a wii. I also have the balance board thing.</p><p>I was hoping there would some really good golf, and skiing, games. The potential is certainly there. The fitness stuff is okay, but it seems to me that it could be so much better.</p><p>My nephew has some WWII combat game. That seems fairly mature - unless you really get off on seeing gore.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just got a wii .
I also have the balance board thing.I was hoping there would some really good golf , and skiing , games .
The potential is certainly there .
The fitness stuff is okay , but it seems to me that it could be so much better.My nephew has some WWII combat game .
That seems fairly mature - unless you really get off on seeing gore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just got a wii.
I also have the balance board thing.I was hoping there would some really good golf, and skiing, games.
The potential is certainly there.
The fitness stuff is okay, but it seems to me that it could be so much better.My nephew has some WWII combat game.
That seems fairly mature - unless you really get off on seeing gore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29984834</id>
	<title>Ennui On Wii?</title>
	<author>Dripdry</author>
	<datestamp>1256981400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>On wii, huh? Yeah, I'm suffering from it a little with Nintendo right now.</p><p>I'm sure they'll bring some neat titles to the system. Besides, there are also Gamecube games like Eternal Darkness, and VC games from any number of "more mature" systems of old.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On wii , huh ?
Yeah , I 'm suffering from it a little with Nintendo right now.I 'm sure they 'll bring some neat titles to the system .
Besides , there are also Gamecube games like Eternal Darkness , and VC games from any number of " more mature " systems of old .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On wii, huh?
Yeah, I'm suffering from it a little with Nintendo right now.I'm sure they'll bring some neat titles to the system.
Besides, there are also Gamecube games like Eternal Darkness, and VC games from any number of "more mature" systems of old.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975798</id>
	<title>As In</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256987520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wii Hump? *scnr*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wii Hump ?
* scnr *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wii Hump?
*scnr*</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975480</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>xtracto</author>
	<datestamp>1256984280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I was thinking about getting a Wii.  Are all the games really like the ones I see every once and a while on TV?  Blocky, bright, childish looking?  Or are there any decent games out there?</p></div><p>All first party Nintendo games have very simple graphics (childish looking). Gameplay is kind-of-fun but they get old.</p><p>There are some "2nd party" games which have OK graphics (absolutely nothing like Xbox or PS3).</p><p>The majority of games want to have the  "party" theme, and they end being a bunch of stupid mini-games where you have to shake the Wiimote in one way or another.</p><p>The Wii balance board is OK but other than Wii sports/plus (which consists also on a set of minigames) there is nothing really interesting.</p><p>The Motion Plus is just OK. I got 2 + sports resort and think it is Nintendo Ripof. It doesn't add anything new to the gameplay.</p><p>All in all, I still think that Nintendo technology is good and promising (motion plus, balance board) but with very poor games.</p><p>As for the "mature games". As the article states, HoD Overkill is OK but very short and easy. The Conoduit is just your average FPS (and it is supposed to be "the best" FPS for the Wii... which is sad).</p><p>At home, the 80\% of time we have the wii turned on is to use MPlayerCE (watch movies or tv-series episodes) and playing Snes9X GX.</p><p>Oh, and the game I waited for (Worms) was a disaster; it is completely horrible.</p><p>Summing up, as the guy form Zero Punctation put it "Wii games are made for retards". (just take a look at the Wii games stand next time you go to the game shop.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was thinking about getting a Wii .
Are all the games really like the ones I see every once and a while on TV ?
Blocky , bright , childish looking ?
Or are there any decent games out there ? All first party Nintendo games have very simple graphics ( childish looking ) .
Gameplay is kind-of-fun but they get old.There are some " 2nd party " games which have OK graphics ( absolutely nothing like Xbox or PS3 ) .The majority of games want to have the " party " theme , and they end being a bunch of stupid mini-games where you have to shake the Wiimote in one way or another.The Wii balance board is OK but other than Wii sports/plus ( which consists also on a set of minigames ) there is nothing really interesting.The Motion Plus is just OK. I got 2 + sports resort and think it is Nintendo Ripof .
It does n't add anything new to the gameplay.All in all , I still think that Nintendo technology is good and promising ( motion plus , balance board ) but with very poor games.As for the " mature games " .
As the article states , HoD Overkill is OK but very short and easy .
The Conoduit is just your average FPS ( and it is supposed to be " the best " FPS for the Wii... which is sad ) .At home , the 80 \ % of time we have the wii turned on is to use MPlayerCE ( watch movies or tv-series episodes ) and playing Snes9X GX.Oh , and the game I waited for ( Worms ) was a disaster ; it is completely horrible.Summing up , as the guy form Zero Punctation put it " Wii games are made for retards " .
( just take a look at the Wii games stand next time you go to the game shop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was thinking about getting a Wii.
Are all the games really like the ones I see every once and a while on TV?
Blocky, bright, childish looking?
Or are there any decent games out there?All first party Nintendo games have very simple graphics (childish looking).
Gameplay is kind-of-fun but they get old.There are some "2nd party" games which have OK graphics (absolutely nothing like Xbox or PS3).The majority of games want to have the  "party" theme, and they end being a bunch of stupid mini-games where you have to shake the Wiimote in one way or another.The Wii balance board is OK but other than Wii sports/plus (which consists also on a set of minigames) there is nothing really interesting.The Motion Plus is just OK. I got 2 + sports resort and think it is Nintendo Ripof.
It doesn't add anything new to the gameplay.All in all, I still think that Nintendo technology is good and promising (motion plus, balance board) but with very poor games.As for the "mature games".
As the article states, HoD Overkill is OK but very short and easy.
The Conoduit is just your average FPS (and it is supposed to be "the best" FPS for the Wii... which is sad).At home, the 80\% of time we have the wii turned on is to use MPlayerCE (watch movies or tv-series episodes) and playing Snes9X GX.Oh, and the game I waited for (Worms) was a disaster; it is completely horrible.Summing up, as the guy form Zero Punctation put it "Wii games are made for retards".
(just take a look at the Wii games stand next time you go to the game shop.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29979702</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257009480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly, then they went out and bought a 360.</p><p>lol, captcha: clearly</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly , then they went out and bought a 360.lol , captcha : clearly</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly, then they went out and bought a 360.lol, captcha: clearly</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29985834</id>
	<title>Re:wrong definition of mature</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256984340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hi Grandpa!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hi Grandpa !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hi Grandpa!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.30027816</id>
	<title>All that matters is ... is it fun?</title>
	<author>crashnbur</author>
	<datestamp>1257693120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are fun to this day, and their graphics by today's standards are terrible.  The graphics don't have to be next-gen or hyper-realistic.  There is only one crucial element:  gameplay.  If it's done well -- if it's fun to play the first time and gamers have a reason to keep coming back -- then yes, there is a future for mature gaming on the Wii.</p><p>Unfortunately, I think it's going to take a babysteps approach, because Nintendo's current fanbase seems to be mostly casual gamers and the family-friendly types.  Anyone not in that category who has a Wii is probably a loyal fan, so Nintendo doesn't need to focus on them -- those fans will find the games they want either way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are fun to this day , and their graphics by today 's standards are terrible .
The graphics do n't have to be next-gen or hyper-realistic .
There is only one crucial element : gameplay .
If it 's done well -- if it 's fun to play the first time and gamers have a reason to keep coming back -- then yes , there is a future for mature gaming on the Wii.Unfortunately , I think it 's going to take a babysteps approach , because Nintendo 's current fanbase seems to be mostly casual gamers and the family-friendly types .
Anyone not in that category who has a Wii is probably a loyal fan , so Nintendo does n't need to focus on them -- those fans will find the games they want either way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are fun to this day, and their graphics by today's standards are terrible.
The graphics don't have to be next-gen or hyper-realistic.
There is only one crucial element:  gameplay.
If it's done well -- if it's fun to play the first time and gamers have a reason to keep coming back -- then yes, there is a future for mature gaming on the Wii.Unfortunately, I think it's going to take a babysteps approach, because Nintendo's current fanbase seems to be mostly casual gamers and the family-friendly types.
Anyone not in that category who has a Wii is probably a loyal fan, so Nintendo doesn't need to focus on them -- those fans will find the games they want either way.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29983774</id>
	<title>Lots of bad statistics</title>
	<author>seebs</author>
	<datestamp>1257021240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sales are not the measure of a game's financial success.</p><p>Profits are.</p><p>Game development costs on the Wii are between 1/4 and 1/2 those of development costs on the HD consoles.  Prices, by contrast, are about 20\% lower.  What that means is that you don't need to sell NEARLY as many copies of a game to make money -- and that means more successful games that target "niche" audiences.</p><p>People talk about how "badly" No More Heroes sold -- but it sold several times more copies than Killer 7 did on the Gamecube and PS2 put together, even though it came out in a much smaller market (the number of Wii systems out when NMH was released was a fraction of the number of PS2 systems out when K7 was released).  By most accounts, it was profitable enough that they plan to do a sequel.</p><p>This is exactly the stuff we saw people saying about the DS, and here we are, with DS games being hugely profitable for people who put real time and effort into them.  There have certainly been profitable third-party Wii games; RE4 was one, Mario &amp; Sonic Olympics (Sega) was one... And there have probably been others.  The big problem is still the casual fallacy; the notion that people who want an approachable game don't care about quality.  I care a ton about quality, just not very much about graphics resolution.  People who make fun games are selling them to me quite effectively.  People who make more flavor-of-the-month shooters aren't.  (That said, I did get The Conduit, because it looked really polished.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sales are not the measure of a game 's financial success.Profits are.Game development costs on the Wii are between 1/4 and 1/2 those of development costs on the HD consoles .
Prices , by contrast , are about 20 \ % lower .
What that means is that you do n't need to sell NEARLY as many copies of a game to make money -- and that means more successful games that target " niche " audiences.People talk about how " badly " No More Heroes sold -- but it sold several times more copies than Killer 7 did on the Gamecube and PS2 put together , even though it came out in a much smaller market ( the number of Wii systems out when NMH was released was a fraction of the number of PS2 systems out when K7 was released ) .
By most accounts , it was profitable enough that they plan to do a sequel.This is exactly the stuff we saw people saying about the DS , and here we are , with DS games being hugely profitable for people who put real time and effort into them .
There have certainly been profitable third-party Wii games ; RE4 was one , Mario &amp; Sonic Olympics ( Sega ) was one... And there have probably been others .
The big problem is still the casual fallacy ; the notion that people who want an approachable game do n't care about quality .
I care a ton about quality , just not very much about graphics resolution .
People who make fun games are selling them to me quite effectively .
People who make more flavor-of-the-month shooters are n't .
( That said , I did get The Conduit , because it looked really polished .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sales are not the measure of a game's financial success.Profits are.Game development costs on the Wii are between 1/4 and 1/2 those of development costs on the HD consoles.
Prices, by contrast, are about 20\% lower.
What that means is that you don't need to sell NEARLY as many copies of a game to make money -- and that means more successful games that target "niche" audiences.People talk about how "badly" No More Heroes sold -- but it sold several times more copies than Killer 7 did on the Gamecube and PS2 put together, even though it came out in a much smaller market (the number of Wii systems out when NMH was released was a fraction of the number of PS2 systems out when K7 was released).
By most accounts, it was profitable enough that they plan to do a sequel.This is exactly the stuff we saw people saying about the DS, and here we are, with DS games being hugely profitable for people who put real time and effort into them.
There have certainly been profitable third-party Wii games; RE4 was one, Mario &amp; Sonic Olympics (Sega) was one... And there have probably been others.
The big problem is still the casual fallacy; the notion that people who want an approachable game don't care about quality.
I care a ton about quality, just not very much about graphics resolution.
People who make fun games are selling them to me quite effectively.
People who make more flavor-of-the-month shooters aren't.
(That said, I did get The Conduit, because it looked really polished.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29978116</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>tomhudson</author>
	<datestamp>1257004320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Try snowboarding with the Wii Fit.  But first, get a big-ass upscaling plasma TV - it really is immersive - and funny to watch other people really get into it.
</p><p>Sure, the Wii Resort is Fisher Price colours, but everyone gets hooked on Frisbee Golf - the motion plus makes a real difference to what sounds like a really stupid idea.
</p><p>Games like Pinball Hall of Fame are exactly what you would expect - noisy, flashy, and you can even tilt the table if you shake the remote too much (and you have to bump the table on occasion or the ball goes right down the center).
</p><p>Someone else on slashdot suggested Boom Blox.  It didn't sound all that great, but once you hit the Plumber puzzle, it makes you think.  AND you get a real work-out.  I was playing against a friend who was throwing all wrong (sure, you can throw hard, but not at the expense of accuracy) and after an hour he was complaining about his shoulder getting sore from the workout<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
</p><p>I picked up Pop Star Guitar on a whim, not expecting anything great for an air guitar game (figured it would be something that friends' kids could play when they came over).  Boy,was I wrong. That was $20 well spent - so much so that I went out and bought copies for a couple of other people.  The women love it, the teenagers love it, it's just the husbands who aren't impressed, and I suspect it's because they just plain suck at it and get embarrassed too easily.
</p><p>
Yes some games suck. Some are too simplistic.  Part of the problem, though, is that people buy 3, 4 titles, don't spend much money because they don't want to risk it on unknown games, then complain that it sucks because it's not all they hoped it would be.
</p><p>
I took a different approach.  When I bought the Wii in February (they finally had it in stock), I also picked up 4 remotes, 4 nunchucks, 4 steering wheels, the balance board (again, as soon as they had one in stock), rechargers for everything<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and over 30 games so far this year.  I knew that I would have to go through a lot of games to find the good among the ugly - especially since people's tastes differ.  When the 50" plasma TV I wanted (1080p, 600hz, built-in upscaler) and the associated surround-sound system went on sale a few months ago, I grabbed them.  Sure, some of the games suck, but those that don't - the setup makes a HUGE difference.  I consider the 5 grand investment as money well spent, especially since I'm all set for the Wii2 that's coming out next fall.
</p><p>
In other words, if you're disappointed with the Wii, find someone who has a nice setup and a nice selection of games, and find what works for YOU.  Balance-board games will totally suck on a small screen.  Noisy games suck on a crappy sound system.  Multi-player split-screen games get old fast when everyone has to crowd into a small space and squint at their small corner of the screen.  Games that require lots of room (like the sword-fight in Wii Resort) aren't the same if you don't allot enough floor space for people to MOVE!  LOTS of space.
</p><p>
Sure, if you're playing by yourself, you can get away with a smaller screen, but for 2 or more people, 42" is the absolute smallest I'd go for many games, and even then, it's not that great for 4 players.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Try snowboarding with the Wii Fit .
But first , get a big-ass upscaling plasma TV - it really is immersive - and funny to watch other people really get into it .
Sure , the Wii Resort is Fisher Price colours , but everyone gets hooked on Frisbee Golf - the motion plus makes a real difference to what sounds like a really stupid idea .
Games like Pinball Hall of Fame are exactly what you would expect - noisy , flashy , and you can even tilt the table if you shake the remote too much ( and you have to bump the table on occasion or the ball goes right down the center ) .
Someone else on slashdot suggested Boom Blox .
It did n't sound all that great , but once you hit the Plumber puzzle , it makes you think .
AND you get a real work-out .
I was playing against a friend who was throwing all wrong ( sure , you can throw hard , but not at the expense of accuracy ) and after an hour he was complaining about his shoulder getting sore from the workout : - ) I picked up Pop Star Guitar on a whim , not expecting anything great for an air guitar game ( figured it would be something that friends ' kids could play when they came over ) .
Boy,was I wrong .
That was $ 20 well spent - so much so that I went out and bought copies for a couple of other people .
The women love it , the teenagers love it , it 's just the husbands who are n't impressed , and I suspect it 's because they just plain suck at it and get embarrassed too easily .
Yes some games suck .
Some are too simplistic .
Part of the problem , though , is that people buy 3 , 4 titles , do n't spend much money because they do n't want to risk it on unknown games , then complain that it sucks because it 's not all they hoped it would be .
I took a different approach .
When I bought the Wii in February ( they finally had it in stock ) , I also picked up 4 remotes , 4 nunchucks , 4 steering wheels , the balance board ( again , as soon as they had one in stock ) , rechargers for everything ... and over 30 games so far this year .
I knew that I would have to go through a lot of games to find the good among the ugly - especially since people 's tastes differ .
When the 50 " plasma TV I wanted ( 1080p , 600hz , built-in upscaler ) and the associated surround-sound system went on sale a few months ago , I grabbed them .
Sure , some of the games suck , but those that do n't - the setup makes a HUGE difference .
I consider the 5 grand investment as money well spent , especially since I 'm all set for the Wii2 that 's coming out next fall .
In other words , if you 're disappointed with the Wii , find someone who has a nice setup and a nice selection of games , and find what works for YOU .
Balance-board games will totally suck on a small screen .
Noisy games suck on a crappy sound system .
Multi-player split-screen games get old fast when everyone has to crowd into a small space and squint at their small corner of the screen .
Games that require lots of room ( like the sword-fight in Wii Resort ) are n't the same if you do n't allot enough floor space for people to MOVE !
LOTS of space .
Sure , if you 're playing by yourself , you can get away with a smaller screen , but for 2 or more people , 42 " is the absolute smallest I 'd go for many games , and even then , it 's not that great for 4 players .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try snowboarding with the Wii Fit.
But first, get a big-ass upscaling plasma TV - it really is immersive - and funny to watch other people really get into it.
Sure, the Wii Resort is Fisher Price colours, but everyone gets hooked on Frisbee Golf - the motion plus makes a real difference to what sounds like a really stupid idea.
Games like Pinball Hall of Fame are exactly what you would expect - noisy, flashy, and you can even tilt the table if you shake the remote too much (and you have to bump the table on occasion or the ball goes right down the center).
Someone else on slashdot suggested Boom Blox.
It didn't sound all that great, but once you hit the Plumber puzzle, it makes you think.
AND you get a real work-out.
I was playing against a friend who was throwing all wrong (sure, you can throw hard, but not at the expense of accuracy) and after an hour he was complaining about his shoulder getting sore from the workout :-)
I picked up Pop Star Guitar on a whim, not expecting anything great for an air guitar game (figured it would be something that friends' kids could play when they came over).
Boy,was I wrong.
That was $20 well spent - so much so that I went out and bought copies for a couple of other people.
The women love it, the teenagers love it, it's just the husbands who aren't impressed, and I suspect it's because they just plain suck at it and get embarrassed too easily.
Yes some games suck.
Some are too simplistic.
Part of the problem, though, is that people buy 3, 4 titles, don't spend much money because they don't want to risk it on unknown games, then complain that it sucks because it's not all they hoped it would be.
I took a different approach.
When I bought the Wii in February (they finally had it in stock), I also picked up 4 remotes, 4 nunchucks, 4 steering wheels, the balance board (again, as soon as they had one in stock), rechargers for everything ... and over 30 games so far this year.
I knew that I would have to go through a lot of games to find the good among the ugly - especially since people's tastes differ.
When the 50" plasma TV I wanted (1080p, 600hz, built-in upscaler) and the associated surround-sound system went on sale a few months ago, I grabbed them.
Sure, some of the games suck, but those that don't - the setup makes a HUGE difference.
I consider the 5 grand investment as money well spent, especially since I'm all set for the Wii2 that's coming out next fall.
In other words, if you're disappointed with the Wii, find someone who has a nice setup and a nice selection of games, and find what works for YOU.
Balance-board games will totally suck on a small screen.
Noisy games suck on a crappy sound system.
Multi-player split-screen games get old fast when everyone has to crowd into a small space and squint at their small corner of the screen.
Games that require lots of room (like the sword-fight in Wii Resort) aren't the same if you don't allot enough floor space for people to MOVE!
LOTS of space.
Sure, if you're playing by yourself, you can get away with a smaller screen, but for 2 or more people, 42" is the absolute smallest I'd go for many games, and even then, it's not that great for 4 players.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975480</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976604</id>
	<title>Multiple Consoles</title>
	<author>Thyamine</author>
	<datestamp>1256996040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've always had a Nintendo system, but one the XBox first came out I started maintaining the Nintendo and Microsoft console line in my house.  New system?  I bought it and upgraded.  In this current generation of consoles especially, the graphics look much better on the 360, so if a more 'mature' game came out for multiple systems I don't think it's hard to see that I'm going to stick with the better looking system rather than buy it for the Wii.  Any game I buy for the Wii falls more into the traditional Nintendo games/series that aren't out for the 360 or PS3.  <br>
<br>
I also think most 'serious' gamers who would go for games classified as mature are likely to have multiple consoles as well.  This assume the game comes out for multiple consoles.  If the Wii was my only system, then I'd definitely purchase any range of games for it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've always had a Nintendo system , but one the XBox first came out I started maintaining the Nintendo and Microsoft console line in my house .
New system ?
I bought it and upgraded .
In this current generation of consoles especially , the graphics look much better on the 360 , so if a more 'mature ' game came out for multiple systems I do n't think it 's hard to see that I 'm going to stick with the better looking system rather than buy it for the Wii .
Any game I buy for the Wii falls more into the traditional Nintendo games/series that are n't out for the 360 or PS3 .
I also think most 'serious ' gamers who would go for games classified as mature are likely to have multiple consoles as well .
This assume the game comes out for multiple consoles .
If the Wii was my only system , then I 'd definitely purchase any range of games for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've always had a Nintendo system, but one the XBox first came out I started maintaining the Nintendo and Microsoft console line in my house.
New system?
I bought it and upgraded.
In this current generation of consoles especially, the graphics look much better on the 360, so if a more 'mature' game came out for multiple systems I don't think it's hard to see that I'm going to stick with the better looking system rather than buy it for the Wii.
Any game I buy for the Wii falls more into the traditional Nintendo games/series that aren't out for the 360 or PS3.
I also think most 'serious' gamers who would go for games classified as mature are likely to have multiple consoles as well.
This assume the game comes out for multiple consoles.
If the Wii was my only system, then I'd definitely purchase any range of games for it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977970</id>
	<title>Wii Golf II</title>
	<author>arthurpaliden</author>
	<datestamp>1257003660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My wife and I are still waiting for a version of Wii Golf, simple fun gameplay, that alows you to play on any of the world famous courses.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife and I are still waiting for a version of Wii Golf , simple fun gameplay , that alows you to play on any of the world famous courses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife and I are still waiting for a version of Wii Golf, simple fun gameplay, that alows you to play on any of the world famous courses.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977112</id>
	<title>Re:wrong definition of mature</title>
	<author>tsotha</author>
	<datestamp>1256999820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know this has been modded "funny", but it's absolutely true.  My 70 year old parents went out and bought a Wii because they had so much fun playing it at a family gathering.
</p><p>Calling a game "mature" because it's loaded with violence is just stupid.  The main audience for that kind of game is adolescent boys not, in general, considered the most mature segment of society.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know this has been modded " funny " , but it 's absolutely true .
My 70 year old parents went out and bought a Wii because they had so much fun playing it at a family gathering .
Calling a game " mature " because it 's loaded with violence is just stupid .
The main audience for that kind of game is adolescent boys not , in general , considered the most mature segment of society .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know this has been modded "funny", but it's absolutely true.
My 70 year old parents went out and bought a Wii because they had so much fun playing it at a family gathering.
Calling a game "mature" because it's loaded with violence is just stupid.
The main audience for that kind of game is adolescent boys not, in general, considered the most mature segment of society.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976350</id>
	<title>Re:I think it'll happen</title>
	<author>s1lverl0rd</author>
	<datestamp>1256993580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>[citation required]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>[ citation required ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[citation required]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975474</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977364</id>
	<title>Re:Sold my Wii</title>
	<author>muffen</author>
	<datestamp>1257001080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Probably not the best description as you correctly pointed out, when I wrote that I was thinking of <a href="http://uk.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/demonssoul/index.html" title="gamespot.com">Demons souls</a> [gamespot.com] on the PS3, basically you play by yourself but while playing people can join your game and help or hurt you.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably not the best description as you correctly pointed out , when I wrote that I was thinking of Demons souls [ gamespot.com ] on the PS3 , basically you play by yourself but while playing people can join your game and help or hurt you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably not the best description as you correctly pointed out, when I wrote that I was thinking of Demons souls [gamespot.com] on the PS3, basically you play by yourself but while playing people can join your game and help or hurt you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976978</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975502</id>
	<title>Sure... if they are good enough.</title>
	<author>Max Romantschuk</author>
	<datestamp>1256984520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Our Wii sees the most action with games that entertain the largest possible number of people. I think a lot of people have bought the Wii due to a lot of great games to play in groups. The same people are unlikely to buy games that focus on a single- or two player experience.</p><p>I'm probably going to get House of the Dead: Maximum Overkill at some time. But I have a lot less time to game for myself compare to the time I can put into trying to beat my brother-in-law in (pick your favorite) in Wii Sports Resort, playing Mario Kart with the kids, or rediscovering social adventure gaming (everyone on the couch tries to solve the puzzles) with Monkey Island.</p><p>The Wii has a huge adult audience, but for a game to be successful it has to be more than just rated for adults. Most adult rated games forget that the key thing that made the Wii a success was not motion controlled stuff, it was social gaming. Factor in that a lot of Wiis get much of their use by women as well as men, and you have to design for a whole new target group.</p><p>I'm sure there is a future for mature games on the Wii, but traditional mature games aimed at the solo-gaming male? Much more limited...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Our Wii sees the most action with games that entertain the largest possible number of people .
I think a lot of people have bought the Wii due to a lot of great games to play in groups .
The same people are unlikely to buy games that focus on a single- or two player experience.I 'm probably going to get House of the Dead : Maximum Overkill at some time .
But I have a lot less time to game for myself compare to the time I can put into trying to beat my brother-in-law in ( pick your favorite ) in Wii Sports Resort , playing Mario Kart with the kids , or rediscovering social adventure gaming ( everyone on the couch tries to solve the puzzles ) with Monkey Island.The Wii has a huge adult audience , but for a game to be successful it has to be more than just rated for adults .
Most adult rated games forget that the key thing that made the Wii a success was not motion controlled stuff , it was social gaming .
Factor in that a lot of Wiis get much of their use by women as well as men , and you have to design for a whole new target group.I 'm sure there is a future for mature games on the Wii , but traditional mature games aimed at the solo-gaming male ?
Much more limited.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Our Wii sees the most action with games that entertain the largest possible number of people.
I think a lot of people have bought the Wii due to a lot of great games to play in groups.
The same people are unlikely to buy games that focus on a single- or two player experience.I'm probably going to get House of the Dead: Maximum Overkill at some time.
But I have a lot less time to game for myself compare to the time I can put into trying to beat my brother-in-law in (pick your favorite) in Wii Sports Resort, playing Mario Kart with the kids, or rediscovering social adventure gaming (everyone on the couch tries to solve the puzzles) with Monkey Island.The Wii has a huge adult audience, but for a game to be successful it has to be more than just rated for adults.
Most adult rated games forget that the key thing that made the Wii a success was not motion controlled stuff, it was social gaming.
Factor in that a lot of Wiis get much of their use by women as well as men, and you have to design for a whole new target group.I'm sure there is a future for mature games on the Wii, but traditional mature games aimed at the solo-gaming male?
Much more limited...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976692</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256996820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are many decent games which are blocky, bright and childish looking.  The two aren't mutually exclusive, you know.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many decent games which are blocky , bright and childish looking .
The two are n't mutually exclusive , you know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many decent games which are blocky, bright and childish looking.
The two aren't mutually exclusive, you know.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29982912</id>
	<title>DS Games, Changing business models</title>
	<author>Karl J. Smith</author>
	<datestamp>1257018960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The article also mentions that the DS Game - Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars sold poorly, selling only 89,000 copies, way under expectations. This bums me out, since I bought it, bought copies as gifts, and loved it - the DS touch-screen interface is something I find very enjoyable to use. With such low sales, a sequel seems unlikely, in spite of the fact that it received the all-time high score for the DS at metacritic - <a href="http://www.metacritic.com/games/ds/" title="metacritic.com">http://www.metacritic.com/games/ds/</a> [metacritic.com]</p><p>I have a strong suspicion that the easy availability of ROMs for the game might have had something to do with the low sales (although objective data is hard to come by). By comparison, an iphone game was 80\% unpaid copies, 20\% paid - <a href="http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/26/developer-claims-80-percent-piracy-rate-for-latest-iphone-releas/" title="joystiq.com">http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/26/developer-claims-80-percent-piracy-rate-for-latest-iphone-releas/</a> [joystiq.com]</p><p>The "change your business model" idea suggested for music companies is actually happening for games - Dragon Age: Origins now ships essentially crippled, with magic items to boost stats and useful party-member NPCs held back until you register an EA.com account and use the "free" code contained in a sealed shrink-wrapped game, or pay extra for it as DLC (downloadable content). This then adds all the server-overload fun of an MMO launch to a single-player game. It also required a tedious install reboot install loop on a console. Argh.</p><p>I'm not sure what the answer is long-term, other than everything will eventually be network-enabled only, as that's the only way to ensure payment. Standalone games will wither and die. Bummer. (With various exceptions for things like Dwarf Fortress which are free and take donations.)</p><p>In the meantime, Wil Wheaton's advice should be extended beyond just playing games, to include publishing and acquiring games - "Don't be a Dick."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The article also mentions that the DS Game - Grand Theft Auto : Chinatown Wars sold poorly , selling only 89,000 copies , way under expectations .
This bums me out , since I bought it , bought copies as gifts , and loved it - the DS touch-screen interface is something I find very enjoyable to use .
With such low sales , a sequel seems unlikely , in spite of the fact that it received the all-time high score for the DS at metacritic - http : //www.metacritic.com/games/ds/ [ metacritic.com ] I have a strong suspicion that the easy availability of ROMs for the game might have had something to do with the low sales ( although objective data is hard to come by ) .
By comparison , an iphone game was 80 \ % unpaid copies , 20 \ % paid - http : //www.joystiq.com/2009/10/26/developer-claims-80-percent-piracy-rate-for-latest-iphone-releas/ [ joystiq.com ] The " change your business model " idea suggested for music companies is actually happening for games - Dragon Age : Origins now ships essentially crippled , with magic items to boost stats and useful party-member NPCs held back until you register an EA.com account and use the " free " code contained in a sealed shrink-wrapped game , or pay extra for it as DLC ( downloadable content ) .
This then adds all the server-overload fun of an MMO launch to a single-player game .
It also required a tedious install reboot install loop on a console .
Argh.I 'm not sure what the answer is long-term , other than everything will eventually be network-enabled only , as that 's the only way to ensure payment .
Standalone games will wither and die .
Bummer. ( With various exceptions for things like Dwarf Fortress which are free and take donations .
) In the meantime , Wil Wheaton 's advice should be extended beyond just playing games , to include publishing and acquiring games - " Do n't be a Dick .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article also mentions that the DS Game - Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars sold poorly, selling only 89,000 copies, way under expectations.
This bums me out, since I bought it, bought copies as gifts, and loved it - the DS touch-screen interface is something I find very enjoyable to use.
With such low sales, a sequel seems unlikely, in spite of the fact that it received the all-time high score for the DS at metacritic - http://www.metacritic.com/games/ds/ [metacritic.com]I have a strong suspicion that the easy availability of ROMs for the game might have had something to do with the low sales (although objective data is hard to come by).
By comparison, an iphone game was 80\% unpaid copies, 20\% paid - http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/26/developer-claims-80-percent-piracy-rate-for-latest-iphone-releas/ [joystiq.com]The "change your business model" idea suggested for music companies is actually happening for games - Dragon Age: Origins now ships essentially crippled, with magic items to boost stats and useful party-member NPCs held back until you register an EA.com account and use the "free" code contained in a sealed shrink-wrapped game, or pay extra for it as DLC (downloadable content).
This then adds all the server-overload fun of an MMO launch to a single-player game.
It also required a tedious install reboot install loop on a console.
Argh.I'm not sure what the answer is long-term, other than everything will eventually be network-enabled only, as that's the only way to ensure payment.
Standalone games will wither and die.
Bummer. (With various exceptions for things like Dwarf Fortress which are free and take donations.
)In the meantime, Wil Wheaton's advice should be extended beyond just playing games, to include publishing and acquiring games - "Don't be a Dick.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29979190</id>
	<title>Massive Failure in Porting in Mature Games</title>
	<author>quatin</author>
	<datestamp>1257007980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's also a lot of badly ported "mature" games for the Wii. Games that are obviously made for the xbox360/ps3 and were stripped, dumbed down for the Wii. Prime example is Call of Duty 5: World at War. They literally removed 20\% of the content (available maps, vehicles, player modes) and toned down the graphics to make it fit on the Wii. The result is very choppy and the Wii sounds like it's going ballistic processing the game.

This is what developers have turned to now to publish more mature games on the wii.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's also a lot of badly ported " mature " games for the Wii .
Games that are obviously made for the xbox360/ps3 and were stripped , dumbed down for the Wii .
Prime example is Call of Duty 5 : World at War .
They literally removed 20 \ % of the content ( available maps , vehicles , player modes ) and toned down the graphics to make it fit on the Wii .
The result is very choppy and the Wii sounds like it 's going ballistic processing the game .
This is what developers have turned to now to publish more mature games on the wii .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's also a lot of badly ported "mature" games for the Wii.
Games that are obviously made for the xbox360/ps3 and were stripped, dumbed down for the Wii.
Prime example is Call of Duty 5: World at War.
They literally removed 20\% of the content (available maps, vehicles, player modes) and toned down the graphics to make it fit on the Wii.
The result is very choppy and the Wii sounds like it's going ballistic processing the game.
This is what developers have turned to now to publish more mature games on the wii.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29980036</id>
	<title>mature?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257010440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The wii will be ready for mature games when the wiimote comes with a waterproof, nonstick, easily washable, soft latex or gel attachment. It would put a whole new definition the phrase "Japanese Role Playing Game".<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The wii will be ready for mature games when the wiimote comes with a waterproof , nonstick , easily washable , soft latex or gel attachment .
It would put a whole new definition the phrase " Japanese Role Playing Game " .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The wii will be ready for mature games when the wiimote comes with a waterproof, nonstick, easily washable, soft latex or gel attachment.
It would put a whole new definition the phrase "Japanese Role Playing Game".
;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976790</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256997840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Methinks you're underestimating the intelligence of the kids.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Methinks you 're underestimating the intelligence of the kids .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Methinks you're underestimating the intelligence of the kids.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977108</id>
	<title>Bring on the bellyachers</title>
	<author>twosmokes</author>
	<datestamp>1256999820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here come the 50 slashdot fuddy duddies bemoaning the label the ESRB has chosen to distinguish games with content not meant for children.</p><p>Please tell us more stories about how checkers and Mario Party are the most mature games you've ever played.  It's a very interesting and fresh perspective.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here come the 50 slashdot fuddy duddies bemoaning the label the ESRB has chosen to distinguish games with content not meant for children.Please tell us more stories about how checkers and Mario Party are the most mature games you 've ever played .
It 's a very interesting and fresh perspective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here come the 50 slashdot fuddy duddies bemoaning the label the ESRB has chosen to distinguish games with content not meant for children.Please tell us more stories about how checkers and Mario Party are the most mature games you've ever played.
It's a very interesting and fresh perspective.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977620</id>
	<title>Re:wii go postal</title>
	<author>runyonave</author>
	<datestamp>1257002220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, because mature can only mean violence.

Some people.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , because mature can only mean violence .
Some people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, because mature can only mean violence.
Some people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29983006</id>
	<title>They gave up on mature games?</title>
	<author>PirateBlis</author>
	<datestamp>1257019140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Dammit all. There's goes my hopes and dreams for Mario Jerk-off Party, Dyke Tyson's Tits Out, and Wii Fist<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dammit all .
There 's goes my hopes and dreams for Mario Jerk-off Party , Dyke Tyson 's Tits Out , and Wii Fist : (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dammit all.
There's goes my hopes and dreams for Mario Jerk-off Party, Dyke Tyson's Tits Out, and Wii Fist :(</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976470</id>
	<title>When kids go to bed.... where's this world going,,</title>
	<author>dragisha</author>
	<datestamp>1256994600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I was a bit suprised seeing this phrase... And reading this article... Every day brings new knowledge, this one about mature being euphemism for violent...</p><p>Being father of three, I know as every other parent here it's fully trash talk - 66\% of these "mature" titles sold will be played by kids. But, ok - whatever floats ones triremes.... I suppose only thing that counts is money made. School shootings are just unimportant side effects...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I was a bit suprised seeing this phrase... And reading this article... Every day brings new knowledge , this one about mature being euphemism for violent...Being father of three , I know as every other parent here it 's fully trash talk - 66 \ % of these " mature " titles sold will be played by kids .
But , ok - whatever floats ones triremes.... I suppose only thing that counts is money made .
School shootings are just unimportant side effects.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was a bit suprised seeing this phrase... And reading this article... Every day brings new knowledge, this one about mature being euphemism for violent...Being father of three, I know as every other parent here it's fully trash talk - 66\% of these "mature" titles sold will be played by kids.
But, ok - whatever floats ones triremes.... I suppose only thing that counts is money made.
School shootings are just unimportant side effects...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975436</id>
	<title>Yes</title>
	<author>antifoidulus</author>
	<datestamp>1256983680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I mean come on, the Wiimote makes a perfect virtual penis, why haven't developers taken advantage of this yet?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I mean come on , the Wiimote makes a perfect virtual penis , why have n't developers taken advantage of this yet ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I mean come on, the Wiimote makes a perfect virtual penis, why haven't developers taken advantage of this yet?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975380</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Alarindris</author>
	<datestamp>1256983200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was thinking about getting a Wii.  Are all the games really like the ones I see every once and a while on TV?  Blocky, bright, childish looking?  Or are there any decent games out there?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was thinking about getting a Wii .
Are all the games really like the ones I see every once and a while on TV ?
Blocky , bright , childish looking ?
Or are there any decent games out there ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was thinking about getting a Wii.
Are all the games really like the ones I see every once and a while on TV?
Blocky, bright, childish looking?
Or are there any decent games out there?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975844</id>
	<title>Re:Mature?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256988000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Err, maybe "mature" means not dumbing down every freakin game to some cutesy standard.</p><p>Granted some games overindulge in the sex and violence, but Nintendo is just as bad by removing those aspects especially when they are appropriate in the context of the game.</p><p>Something decent should be able to cater to both. That leaves Nintendo far from the mark.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Err , maybe " mature " means not dumbing down every freakin game to some cutesy standard.Granted some games overindulge in the sex and violence , but Nintendo is just as bad by removing those aspects especially when they are appropriate in the context of the game.Something decent should be able to cater to both .
That leaves Nintendo far from the mark .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Err, maybe "mature" means not dumbing down every freakin game to some cutesy standard.Granted some games overindulge in the sex and violence, but Nintendo is just as bad by removing those aspects especially when they are appropriate in the context of the game.Something decent should be able to cater to both.
That leaves Nintendo far from the mark.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975358</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975358</id>
	<title>Mature?</title>
	<author>papabob</author>
	<datestamp>1256983020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, if we have to believe TFA, "mature games" are those with dark ambient light, based on killing everything that moves and splashing blood in the walls... yeah, very mature. Maybe they haven't realized yet that Wii is a console for real "mature" people, you know, those who bring their mates to home after work and play simple games with beers and snacks, only looking for some laughs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , if we have to believe TFA , " mature games " are those with dark ambient light , based on killing everything that moves and splashing blood in the walls... yeah , very mature .
Maybe they have n't realized yet that Wii is a console for real " mature " people , you know , those who bring their mates to home after work and play simple games with beers and snacks , only looking for some laughs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, if we have to believe TFA, "mature games" are those with dark ambient light, based on killing everything that moves and splashing blood in the walls... yeah, very mature.
Maybe they haven't realized yet that Wii is a console for real "mature" people, you know, those who bring their mates to home after work and play simple games with beers and snacks, only looking for some laughs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29989650</id>
	<title>Re:Sold my Wii</title>
	<author>mattack2</author>
	<datestamp>1257001080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I bought a Wii a few months after release, hooked it up, played Wii sports and thought "this is cool".<br>A month later I sold the Wii because of the following.<br>1) Horrible Graphics compared to the XBOX 360 I had at the time (got a PS3 now).</p></div></blockquote><p>Obviously you're entitled to your own opinion, but isn't the fun-ness of a game completely separate from the graphics quality?  (I and many others definitely say yes, you apparently say no.)</p><p>Does that mean that I'm never impressed by graphic quality?  No, but for me it's completely separate from the quality of the game.  For example, the Katamari games have very simple graphics, but are fun to play.  I'm currently playing the second Ratchet &amp; Clank game on my PS2..  Decent graphics, but that isn't what makes it fun for me.  (Also, within the past decade, a co-worker had a MAME machine set up with arcade controls..  Mr. Do and Total Carnage were two of the games I played most often.  You could argue it was nostalgia, but I don't think it was.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I bought a Wii a few months after release , hooked it up , played Wii sports and thought " this is cool " .A month later I sold the Wii because of the following.1 ) Horrible Graphics compared to the XBOX 360 I had at the time ( got a PS3 now ) .Obviously you 're entitled to your own opinion , but is n't the fun-ness of a game completely separate from the graphics quality ?
( I and many others definitely say yes , you apparently say no .
) Does that mean that I 'm never impressed by graphic quality ?
No , but for me it 's completely separate from the quality of the game .
For example , the Katamari games have very simple graphics , but are fun to play .
I 'm currently playing the second Ratchet &amp; Clank game on my PS2.. Decent graphics , but that is n't what makes it fun for me .
( Also , within the past decade , a co-worker had a MAME machine set up with arcade controls.. Mr. Do and Total Carnage were two of the games I played most often .
You could argue it was nostalgia , but I do n't think it was .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bought a Wii a few months after release, hooked it up, played Wii sports and thought "this is cool".A month later I sold the Wii because of the following.1) Horrible Graphics compared to the XBOX 360 I had at the time (got a PS3 now).Obviously you're entitled to your own opinion, but isn't the fun-ness of a game completely separate from the graphics quality?
(I and many others definitely say yes, you apparently say no.
)Does that mean that I'm never impressed by graphic quality?
No, but for me it's completely separate from the quality of the game.
For example, the Katamari games have very simple graphics, but are fun to play.
I'm currently playing the second Ratchet &amp; Clank game on my PS2..  Decent graphics, but that isn't what makes it fun for me.
(Also, within the past decade, a co-worker had a MAME machine set up with arcade controls..  Mr. Do and Total Carnage were two of the games I played most often.
You could argue it was nostalgia, but I don't think it was.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975560</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976214</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Quiet\_Desperation</author>
	<datestamp>1256991900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> "A Little Kings Story" looks like a cross between Pokemon and a Fairy Tale, but has very sophisticated gameplay and humor.</p></div><p>Ha. I was about to mention the same thing. I'm playing it now. It starts out so sweet and happy, with the world's most adorable cows, and next thing you know you're carrying out genocide against the neighboring kingdom. Good times.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p><p>I like how some folks hold up MadWorld's tepid response as an example of lack of demand for "adult" games. No, MadWorld was just a clunky, repetitive borefest whose admittedly neat looking graphics turned out to be headache inducing after a short while.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" A Little Kings Story " looks like a cross between Pokemon and a Fairy Tale , but has very sophisticated gameplay and humor.Ha .
I was about to mention the same thing .
I 'm playing it now .
It starts out so sweet and happy , with the world 's most adorable cows , and next thing you know you 're carrying out genocide against the neighboring kingdom .
Good times .
: - ) I like how some folks hold up MadWorld 's tepid response as an example of lack of demand for " adult " games .
No , MadWorld was just a clunky , repetitive borefest whose admittedly neat looking graphics turned out to be headache inducing after a short while .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> "A Little Kings Story" looks like a cross between Pokemon and a Fairy Tale, but has very sophisticated gameplay and humor.Ha.
I was about to mention the same thing.
I'm playing it now.
It starts out so sweet and happy, with the world's most adorable cows, and next thing you know you're carrying out genocide against the neighboring kingdom.
Good times.
:-)I like how some folks hold up MadWorld's tepid response as an example of lack of demand for "adult" games.
No, MadWorld was just a clunky, repetitive borefest whose admittedly neat looking graphics turned out to be headache inducing after a short while.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29991046</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257012000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He probably meant Dead Rising: Chop Till You Drop<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... which is supposed to be a pretty bad game. It's funny how half of the bloody games are on-rail shooters. Not a bad genre, but geez...enough is enough. And they wonder why these games don't sell!<br>
&nbsp; <br>Excitebots is probably the biggest sales-tragedy so far. Great game, with really great online, but no one bought it. Most games that haven't sold didn't do so because they simply weren't that good. (Usually either an inexperienced developer, or a half-assed "testing the hardcore waters" game.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He probably meant Dead Rising : Chop Till You Drop ... which is supposed to be a pretty bad game .
It 's funny how half of the bloody games are on-rail shooters .
Not a bad genre , but geez...enough is enough .
And they wonder why these games do n't sell !
  Excitebots is probably the biggest sales-tragedy so far .
Great game , with really great online , but no one bought it .
Most games that have n't sold did n't do so because they simply were n't that good .
( Usually either an inexperienced developer , or a half-assed " testing the hardcore waters " game .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He probably meant Dead Rising: Chop Till You Drop ... which is supposed to be a pretty bad game.
It's funny how half of the bloody games are on-rail shooters.
Not a bad genre, but geez...enough is enough.
And they wonder why these games don't sell!
  Excitebots is probably the biggest sales-tragedy so far.
Great game, with really great online, but no one bought it.
Most games that haven't sold didn't do so because they simply weren't that good.
(Usually either an inexperienced developer, or a half-assed "testing the hardcore waters" game.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976668</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29978454</id>
	<title>The future is porn</title>
	<author>minstrelmike</author>
	<datestamp>1257005580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It seems to me there is a future for mature games on \_any\_ platform if the company wishes to allow it. I'm not sure what percentage of web pages in the world are devoted to porn, but I'm pretty sure most of the legal money being made on the internet is being made by purveyors of porn. Amazon did not increase the number of people who bought books in the world. The web however made it much easier to publish pictures and distribute videos than ever before.<br> <br>
However, if Wii cannot get a new reputation as a hard core gamer package without losing the current rep. What they ought to do is more of the immersive world games and ones you can create your own stuff in and grab that part of the gamer market. Those folks are also hard-core gamers, they just don't have a label and cannot be grouped with the 1st person shooters or grandmas bowling.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems to me there is a future for mature games on \ _any \ _ platform if the company wishes to allow it .
I 'm not sure what percentage of web pages in the world are devoted to porn , but I 'm pretty sure most of the legal money being made on the internet is being made by purveyors of porn .
Amazon did not increase the number of people who bought books in the world .
The web however made it much easier to publish pictures and distribute videos than ever before .
However , if Wii can not get a new reputation as a hard core gamer package without losing the current rep. What they ought to do is more of the immersive world games and ones you can create your own stuff in and grab that part of the gamer market .
Those folks are also hard-core gamers , they just do n't have a label and can not be grouped with the 1st person shooters or grandmas bowling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems to me there is a future for mature games on \_any\_ platform if the company wishes to allow it.
I'm not sure what percentage of web pages in the world are devoted to porn, but I'm pretty sure most of the legal money being made on the internet is being made by purveyors of porn.
Amazon did not increase the number of people who bought books in the world.
The web however made it much easier to publish pictures and distribute videos than ever before.
However, if Wii cannot get a new reputation as a hard core gamer package without losing the current rep. What they ought to do is more of the immersive world games and ones you can create your own stuff in and grab that part of the gamer market.
Those folks are also hard-core gamers, they just don't have a label and cannot be grouped with the 1st person shooters or grandmas bowling.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975474</id>
	<title>I think it'll happen</title>
	<author>Toonol</author>
	<datestamp>1256984220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>A failed test doesn't mean the next one won't work, because it's a constantly shifting set of conditions.  The Wii is still selling 350-400 thousand units a week, almost as much as the PS3 and 360 combined.  In other words, if two games come out six months apart, there's another 8-10 million Wiis on the market to sell to.  Combine that with the reduced expense of game development on the Wii (I think it averages about a third or a fourth of the cost of the other two consoles for a typical 'big' game), and it just seem inevitable that more games will come.<br> <br>

I think the greatest problem is that once a company decides to make a title for the Wii, they tone it down, slash the production values and the budget, and find it STILL sells well; the popularity and low cost of development leads to a flood of cheap shovelware.  There's all sorts of great games on the Wii, mature or not, but they are in danger of being overlooked amidst the crap.<br> <br>

Monster Hunter Three is an interesting example.  It's a pretty 'hardcore' game, if you label games as such, and traditionally offered on Sony consoles.  It was going to be on the PS3 this gen; but the developers looked at the multimillion dollar expense of creating it on that console, and decided to switch to the Wii.  It might sell less, and yet be more profitable at the same time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A failed test does n't mean the next one wo n't work , because it 's a constantly shifting set of conditions .
The Wii is still selling 350-400 thousand units a week , almost as much as the PS3 and 360 combined .
In other words , if two games come out six months apart , there 's another 8-10 million Wiis on the market to sell to .
Combine that with the reduced expense of game development on the Wii ( I think it averages about a third or a fourth of the cost of the other two consoles for a typical 'big ' game ) , and it just seem inevitable that more games will come .
I think the greatest problem is that once a company decides to make a title for the Wii , they tone it down , slash the production values and the budget , and find it STILL sells well ; the popularity and low cost of development leads to a flood of cheap shovelware .
There 's all sorts of great games on the Wii , mature or not , but they are in danger of being overlooked amidst the crap .
Monster Hunter Three is an interesting example .
It 's a pretty 'hardcore ' game , if you label games as such , and traditionally offered on Sony consoles .
It was going to be on the PS3 this gen ; but the developers looked at the multimillion dollar expense of creating it on that console , and decided to switch to the Wii .
It might sell less , and yet be more profitable at the same time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A failed test doesn't mean the next one won't work, because it's a constantly shifting set of conditions.
The Wii is still selling 350-400 thousand units a week, almost as much as the PS3 and 360 combined.
In other words, if two games come out six months apart, there's another 8-10 million Wiis on the market to sell to.
Combine that with the reduced expense of game development on the Wii (I think it averages about a third or a fourth of the cost of the other two consoles for a typical 'big' game), and it just seem inevitable that more games will come.
I think the greatest problem is that once a company decides to make a title for the Wii, they tone it down, slash the production values and the budget, and find it STILL sells well; the popularity and low cost of development leads to a flood of cheap shovelware.
There's all sorts of great games on the Wii, mature or not, but they are in danger of being overlooked amidst the crap.
Monster Hunter Three is an interesting example.
It's a pretty 'hardcore' game, if you label games as such, and traditionally offered on Sony consoles.
It was going to be on the PS3 this gen; but the developers looked at the multimillion dollar expense of creating it on that console, and decided to switch to the Wii.
It might sell less, and yet be more profitable at the same time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975632</id>
	<title>Endless ocean</title>
	<author>alexandre\_ganso</author>
	<datestamp>1256985780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't think of any game more mature than Endless Ocean. You go there, sit down and relax a little bit after a hard day of work with some fine wine. Not always I want to get into some teenage carnage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't think of any game more mature than Endless Ocean .
You go there , sit down and relax a little bit after a hard day of work with some fine wine .
Not always I want to get into some teenage carnage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't think of any game more mature than Endless Ocean.
You go there, sit down and relax a little bit after a hard day of work with some fine wine.
Not always I want to get into some teenage carnage.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975338</id>
	<title>mature != hyper-violent</title>
	<author>RiotingPacifist</author>
	<datestamp>1256982720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd guess there is a large correlation between the people that like "hyper-violent" games and those that like fancy graphics, the Wii is not a platform they are likely to own. If you release games with mature content, that is needed for the atmosphere and not just for the sake of making a "hyper-violent" game, you run into other problems on the wii, but it sounds like the article is going on about a bunch of games that were mature for the sake of being mature. The only thing that surprised me is that a resident evil game is listen in those that didn't do well, I played one of them on a Wii and it seamed to be done fairly well, it was bloody but not unnecessarily so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd guess there is a large correlation between the people that like " hyper-violent " games and those that like fancy graphics , the Wii is not a platform they are likely to own .
If you release games with mature content , that is needed for the atmosphere and not just for the sake of making a " hyper-violent " game , you run into other problems on the wii , but it sounds like the article is going on about a bunch of games that were mature for the sake of being mature .
The only thing that surprised me is that a resident evil game is listen in those that did n't do well , I played one of them on a Wii and it seamed to be done fairly well , it was bloody but not unnecessarily so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd guess there is a large correlation between the people that like "hyper-violent" games and those that like fancy graphics, the Wii is not a platform they are likely to own.
If you release games with mature content, that is needed for the atmosphere and not just for the sake of making a "hyper-violent" game, you run into other problems on the wii, but it sounds like the article is going on about a bunch of games that were mature for the sake of being mature.
The only thing that surprised me is that a resident evil game is listen in those that didn't do well, I played one of them on a Wii and it seamed to be done fairly well, it was bloody but not unnecessarily so.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29981476</id>
	<title>Re:wii go postal</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1257014940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'Mature' games are also a way for developers to safely tackle 'mature' issues such as the horrors of war (CoD series), or showing a decaying, amoral world (STALKER series, The Witcher) without making it more 'cartoony' to diminish their impact and appease the "think of the children!" crowd.</p><p>Not all mature games are an orgy of sex, blood and profanities ala Conker's Bad Fur Day, some *do* earn the adjective, well, maturely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'Mature ' games are also a way for developers to safely tackle 'mature ' issues such as the horrors of war ( CoD series ) , or showing a decaying , amoral world ( STALKER series , The Witcher ) without making it more 'cartoony ' to diminish their impact and appease the " think of the children !
" crowd.Not all mature games are an orgy of sex , blood and profanities ala Conker 's Bad Fur Day , some * do * earn the adjective , well , maturely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'Mature' games are also a way for developers to safely tackle 'mature' issues such as the horrors of war (CoD series), or showing a decaying, amoral world (STALKER series, The Witcher) without making it more 'cartoony' to diminish their impact and appease the "think of the children!
" crowd.Not all mature games are an orgy of sex, blood and profanities ala Conker's Bad Fur Day, some *do* earn the adjective, well, maturely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975520</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977348</id>
	<title>Typical executives</title>
	<author>LobsterMobster</author>
	<datestamp>1257000960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So the process seems to go like this:

1) Make a mature game or franchise for the known mature markets on the PC, X360 and PS3.
2) Make a version for the Wii with dramatically gutted gameplay and worse graphics.
2a) Make it a rail shooter so you can make it look as good as possible, gameplay be damned, because you know your consumers expect a Wii game to look like a PC game.
3) Fail to sell a ton of copies of your terrible, boring game.
4) Blame the failure on the Wii's more casual audience.  Not the fact that you made a terrible, boring game.

Take note, fancy executive guys: Good games sell well.  Bad games don't.  If your game is good enough, your AUDIENCE WILL FIND YOU.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So the process seems to go like this : 1 ) Make a mature game or franchise for the known mature markets on the PC , X360 and PS3 .
2 ) Make a version for the Wii with dramatically gutted gameplay and worse graphics .
2a ) Make it a rail shooter so you can make it look as good as possible , gameplay be damned , because you know your consumers expect a Wii game to look like a PC game .
3 ) Fail to sell a ton of copies of your terrible , boring game .
4 ) Blame the failure on the Wii 's more casual audience .
Not the fact that you made a terrible , boring game .
Take note , fancy executive guys : Good games sell well .
Bad games do n't .
If your game is good enough , your AUDIENCE WILL FIND YOU .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So the process seems to go like this:

1) Make a mature game or franchise for the known mature markets on the PC, X360 and PS3.
2) Make a version for the Wii with dramatically gutted gameplay and worse graphics.
2a) Make it a rail shooter so you can make it look as good as possible, gameplay be damned, because you know your consumers expect a Wii game to look like a PC game.
3) Fail to sell a ton of copies of your terrible, boring game.
4) Blame the failure on the Wii's more casual audience.
Not the fact that you made a terrible, boring game.
Take note, fancy executive guys: Good games sell well.
Bad games don't.
If your game is good enough, your AUDIENCE WILL FIND YOU.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29978234</id>
	<title>Re:Don't believe TFA, read it</title>
	<author>mdarksbane</author>
	<datestamp>1257004740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would say that Mature in this sense also deals with a deeper degree of complexity in themes and gameplay.</p><p>Halo or Call of Duty have violence and gore and whatnot.. but they also have much more complicated controls and a deeper learning curve, and to a large degree a deeper gameplay than, say, Mario Galaxy. Mario is a great game - don't get me wrong - but the difference in what you can accomplish in it five minutes after you pick up a controller versus 20 hours later is not particularly great. It is a simple game.</p><p>Additionally, aside from violence, there is a darkness to most mature games that you don't see on the wii. People die and lives are at stake - you have stories of post-apocalyptic worlds (fallout 3) or of an immigrant trying to make it in a new city through a life of crime (GTAIV), or even occasionally something as dark and deep as Bioshock. These are more mature themes than save the cartoony princess from the cartoony bad guy, or make your gimpy little avatar go bowling.</p><p>Everyone bemoaning the fact that "mature" means "sex and violence" is just being a dick - there's a lot more these games than that that is almost completely missing on the wii.</p><p>Sin City is a more mature movie than Toy Story, whether you think it's a better movie or not, it's appealing to something different, and that something isn't just a puerile "ooh, boobies"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would say that Mature in this sense also deals with a deeper degree of complexity in themes and gameplay.Halo or Call of Duty have violence and gore and whatnot.. but they also have much more complicated controls and a deeper learning curve , and to a large degree a deeper gameplay than , say , Mario Galaxy .
Mario is a great game - do n't get me wrong - but the difference in what you can accomplish in it five minutes after you pick up a controller versus 20 hours later is not particularly great .
It is a simple game.Additionally , aside from violence , there is a darkness to most mature games that you do n't see on the wii .
People die and lives are at stake - you have stories of post-apocalyptic worlds ( fallout 3 ) or of an immigrant trying to make it in a new city through a life of crime ( GTAIV ) , or even occasionally something as dark and deep as Bioshock .
These are more mature themes than save the cartoony princess from the cartoony bad guy , or make your gimpy little avatar go bowling.Everyone bemoaning the fact that " mature " means " sex and violence " is just being a dick - there 's a lot more these games than that that is almost completely missing on the wii.Sin City is a more mature movie than Toy Story , whether you think it 's a better movie or not , it 's appealing to something different , and that something is n't just a puerile " ooh , boobies "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would say that Mature in this sense also deals with a deeper degree of complexity in themes and gameplay.Halo or Call of Duty have violence and gore and whatnot.. but they also have much more complicated controls and a deeper learning curve, and to a large degree a deeper gameplay than, say, Mario Galaxy.
Mario is a great game - don't get me wrong - but the difference in what you can accomplish in it five minutes after you pick up a controller versus 20 hours later is not particularly great.
It is a simple game.Additionally, aside from violence, there is a darkness to most mature games that you don't see on the wii.
People die and lives are at stake - you have stories of post-apocalyptic worlds (fallout 3) or of an immigrant trying to make it in a new city through a life of crime (GTAIV), or even occasionally something as dark and deep as Bioshock.
These are more mature themes than save the cartoony princess from the cartoony bad guy, or make your gimpy little avatar go bowling.Everyone bemoaning the fact that "mature" means "sex and violence" is just being a dick - there's a lot more these games than that that is almost completely missing on the wii.Sin City is a more mature movie than Toy Story, whether you think it's a better movie or not, it's appealing to something different, and that something isn't just a puerile "ooh, boobies"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975678</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976106</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256990820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>if you haven't played [Game] yet, the Wii version is the definitive version of the game</p></div><p>I'm not sure how that's possible when the Wii is 480p and any other modern game console is capabale of offering 720P or higher.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>if you have n't played [ Game ] yet , the Wii version is the definitive version of the gameI 'm not sure how that 's possible when the Wii is 480p and any other modern game console is capabale of offering 720P or higher .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if you haven't played [Game] yet, the Wii version is the definitive version of the gameI'm not sure how that's possible when the Wii is 480p and any other modern game console is capabale of offering 720P or higher.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975508</id>
	<title>Re:wrong definition of mature</title>
	<author>hedgemage</author>
	<datestamp>1256984580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The folks at the retirement home where I work love Wii bowling.<br>
Really.  This is 100\% true.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The folks at the retirement home where I work love Wii bowling .
Really. This is 100 \ % true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The folks at the retirement home where I work love Wii bowling.
Really.  This is 100\% true.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975262</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976592</id>
	<title>Re:wii go postal</title>
	<author>moeinvt</author>
	<datestamp>1256995800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"...wii remote for a mature games, use it as a axe for a postal type game..."</p><p>I can't find a link, but I believe Nintendo already rejected a game that proposed using the remote to emulate a stabbing weapon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...wii remote for a mature games , use it as a axe for a postal type game... " I ca n't find a link , but I believe Nintendo already rejected a game that proposed using the remote to emulate a stabbing weapon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...wii remote for a mature games, use it as a axe for a postal type game..."I can't find a link, but I believe Nintendo already rejected a game that proposed using the remote to emulate a stabbing weapon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975366</id>
	<title>I prefer good games</title>
	<author>OrangeTide</author>
	<datestamp>1256983080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most mature games are just crap that try and shock and entertain children with some adult themes (violence &amp; sex).<br>I would rather publishers made a better effort at shipping more good games for Wii.</p><p>So far I've been pretty happy with A Boy and His Blob. The artwork is nice, the gameplay is decent, it's a little easy. and I think in many ways it's targeted for younger players. But I'm an adult, not a teenager, so I'm not vehemently opposed to playing "kiddie games".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most mature games are just crap that try and shock and entertain children with some adult themes ( violence &amp; sex ) .I would rather publishers made a better effort at shipping more good games for Wii.So far I 've been pretty happy with A Boy and His Blob .
The artwork is nice , the gameplay is decent , it 's a little easy .
and I think in many ways it 's targeted for younger players .
But I 'm an adult , not a teenager , so I 'm not vehemently opposed to playing " kiddie games " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most mature games are just crap that try and shock and entertain children with some adult themes (violence &amp; sex).I would rather publishers made a better effort at shipping more good games for Wii.So far I've been pretty happy with A Boy and His Blob.
The artwork is nice, the gameplay is decent, it's a little easy.
and I think in many ways it's targeted for younger players.
But I'm an adult, not a teenager, so I'm not vehemently opposed to playing "kiddie games".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976834</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256998200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Several of those games are ports (and therefore don't count if someone says "I am going to get a Wii and..."): Resident Evil 4, House of the Dead, Silent Hill (a reimagining of the first game), Phantom Brave, Okami.  And Wikipedia only shows Left for Dead for Xbox 360.  Onechanbara is technically not a port, but it was released at the same time as an Xbox 360 game in the same series.  Also, the original poster didn't want cutesy-looking games, which rules out Little King's Story, Boy and his Blob, Super Mario Galaxies, and probably Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles and Monster Hunter 3.  So there really aren't all that many, especially if you need to add in upcoming games just to fill the list.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Several of those games are ports ( and therefore do n't count if someone says " I am going to get a Wii and... " ) : Resident Evil 4 , House of the Dead , Silent Hill ( a reimagining of the first game ) , Phantom Brave , Okami .
And Wikipedia only shows Left for Dead for Xbox 360 .
Onechanbara is technically not a port , but it was released at the same time as an Xbox 360 game in the same series .
Also , the original poster did n't want cutesy-looking games , which rules out Little King 's Story , Boy and his Blob , Super Mario Galaxies , and probably Final Fantasy : Crystal Chronicles and Monster Hunter 3 .
So there really are n't all that many , especially if you need to add in upcoming games just to fill the list .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Several of those games are ports (and therefore don't count if someone says "I am going to get a Wii and..."): Resident Evil 4, House of the Dead, Silent Hill (a reimagining of the first game), Phantom Brave, Okami.
And Wikipedia only shows Left for Dead for Xbox 360.
Onechanbara is technically not a port, but it was released at the same time as an Xbox 360 game in the same series.
Also, the original poster didn't want cutesy-looking games, which rules out Little King's Story, Boy and his Blob, Super Mario Galaxies, and probably Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles and Monster Hunter 3.
So there really aren't all that many, especially if you need to add in upcoming games just to fill the list.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977730</id>
	<title>Compare to Simpsons or Family Guy</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1257002700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"A Little Kings Story" looks like a cross between Pokemon and a Fairy Tale</p></div><p>
From the Wikipedia article, it's called "Osama Monogatari" in Japanese. Since when was Osama bin Laden crowned king?
</p><p>
But seriously, there are TV shows for adults that look cartoonish too, like <i>The Simpsons</i> and <i>Family Guy</i>.
</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Metroid: Other M</p></div><p>Will it really be Other M, or just Other T? A lot of people who prefer gritty games definitely won't buy it if it ends up Other E10+.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" A Little Kings Story " looks like a cross between Pokemon and a Fairy Tale From the Wikipedia article , it 's called " Osama Monogatari " in Japanese .
Since when was Osama bin Laden crowned king ?
But seriously , there are TV shows for adults that look cartoonish too , like The Simpsons and Family Guy .
Metroid : Other MWill it really be Other M , or just Other T ?
A lot of people who prefer gritty games definitely wo n't buy it if it ends up Other E10 + .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"A Little Kings Story" looks like a cross between Pokemon and a Fairy Tale
From the Wikipedia article, it's called "Osama Monogatari" in Japanese.
Since when was Osama bin Laden crowned king?
But seriously, there are TV shows for adults that look cartoonish too, like The Simpsons and Family Guy.
Metroid: Other MWill it really be Other M, or just Other T?
A lot of people who prefer gritty games definitely won't buy it if it ends up Other E10+.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975558</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976686</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256996760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So any game with a PC port, however badly hacked together must automatically be better than the console since the PC provides higher resolution and that's all that matters?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So any game with a PC port , however badly hacked together must automatically be better than the console since the PC provides higher resolution and that 's all that matters ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So any game with a PC port, however badly hacked together must automatically be better than the console since the PC provides higher resolution and that's all that matters?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29983442</id>
	<title>Re:wii go postal</title>
	<author>Toonol</author>
	<datestamp>1257020280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And they've approved and even created themselves other games that use the remote to emulate stabbing weapons.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And they 've approved and even created themselves other games that use the remote to emulate stabbing weapons .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And they've approved and even created themselves other games that use the remote to emulate stabbing weapons.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976592</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.30112486</id>
	<title>Re:Why and why</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1258313160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You'll find that MS is making some nice purse on the 360 and has been for a couple of years. Sure they have some red from getting into the business, but compared to Sony they're miles ahead. Sony has lost more on the PS3 than they made on the PS2.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 'll find that MS is making some nice purse on the 360 and has been for a couple of years .
Sure they have some red from getting into the business , but compared to Sony they 're miles ahead .
Sony has lost more on the PS3 than they made on the PS2 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You'll find that MS is making some nice purse on the 360 and has been for a couple of years.
Sure they have some red from getting into the business, but compared to Sony they're miles ahead.
Sony has lost more on the PS3 than they made on the PS2.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975328</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977958</id>
	<title>Re:mature != hyper-violent</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257003660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hyper-violent surely is a subset of mature, since hyper-violent surely isn't for kids.</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2MYPmbgrI0" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">MadWorld</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hyper-violent surely is a subset of mature , since hyper-violent surely is n't for kids.MadWorld [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hyper-violent surely is a subset of mature, since hyper-violent surely isn't for kids.MadWorld [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975678</id>
	<title>Don't believe TFA, read it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256986200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>You know, the penultimate paragraph where the author states exactly that: "mature" is being used equivocally: on the one hand, in the ratings sense, where it refers to a requirement on the player, and on the other hand, in the content sense, where it refers to the presentation and experiences given. Paradoxically, when we say "mature content", we mean mature in the first sense: "We deem this (puerile) content suitable only for those above a certain age", and not "We deem this content interesting to those past their teenage years."<br> <br>Not that I don't enjoy some quality violence myself.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , the penultimate paragraph where the author states exactly that : " mature " is being used equivocally : on the one hand , in the ratings sense , where it refers to a requirement on the player , and on the other hand , in the content sense , where it refers to the presentation and experiences given .
Paradoxically , when we say " mature content " , we mean mature in the first sense : " We deem this ( puerile ) content suitable only for those above a certain age " , and not " We deem this content interesting to those past their teenage years .
" Not that I do n't enjoy some quality violence myself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, the penultimate paragraph where the author states exactly that: "mature" is being used equivocally: on the one hand, in the ratings sense, where it refers to a requirement on the player, and on the other hand, in the content sense, where it refers to the presentation and experiences given.
Paradoxically, when we say "mature content", we mean mature in the first sense: "We deem this (puerile) content suitable only for those above a certain age", and not "We deem this content interesting to those past their teenage years.
" Not that I don't enjoy some quality violence myself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975358</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29977272</id>
	<title>If it's a good game, it will sell well</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257000660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if not, it won't.</p><p>There should also be a bit more to ``mature'' than splashing blood, gore and violence onto the game and ``decorating'' it w/ T&amp;A.</p><p>
&nbsp; - Make games which aren't on-rails, and have large, interesting environments to explore --- while exploration should be challenging, it needs to \_not\_ be frustrating and moving up / down ladders shouldn't require a perfect alignment of the character, the remote and the stars</p><p>
&nbsp; - Provide a compelling story-line and universe which makes me want to explore and discover things</p><p>
&nbsp; - Be sure to use the Wii motion controls and provide a customizable control scheme (Conduit allows for this while playing the game which is a nice touch) --- pointing w/ the Wii remote using a gun shell is an obvious and easy way to do this (though I want to see more games which allow for the archery style of Wii Sports Resort)</p><p>
&nbsp; - Allow the user to control the character including the character's in-game appearance --- use the customized character for all cut-scenes (Valhalla Knights: Eldar Saga does this really well)</p><p>Things which I haven't seen yet and would really like to see:</p><p>
&nbsp; - take advantage of multiple Wii remotes --- I'd love to see a game which would allow me to find multiple weapons in the game and map them to different Wii remotes, so that Remote 2 could be a pistol shell, Remote 3 the machine-gun like Wii Zapper, while Remote 1 is the bare Remote attached to the Nunchuk and used to control a knife or sword, but has to be put down to switch to the Pistol --- I'd also like to be able to find multiple pistols, map them to 2 different Wii remotes and then dual-wield</p><p>
&nbsp; - have a persistent on-line game environment which changes and evolves and has a scripted story arc, or at least a story which makes re-loading the game make sense --- C.J. Cherryh's Morgaine saga would make a good template for this</p><p>
&nbsp; - try a vertical split-screen and allow for co-op play</p><p>William</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if not , it wo n't.There should also be a bit more to ` ` mature' ' than splashing blood , gore and violence onto the game and ` ` decorating' ' it w/ T&amp;A .
  - Make games which are n't on-rails , and have large , interesting environments to explore --- while exploration should be challenging , it needs to \ _not \ _ be frustrating and moving up / down ladders should n't require a perfect alignment of the character , the remote and the stars   - Provide a compelling story-line and universe which makes me want to explore and discover things   - Be sure to use the Wii motion controls and provide a customizable control scheme ( Conduit allows for this while playing the game which is a nice touch ) --- pointing w/ the Wii remote using a gun shell is an obvious and easy way to do this ( though I want to see more games which allow for the archery style of Wii Sports Resort )   - Allow the user to control the character including the character 's in-game appearance --- use the customized character for all cut-scenes ( Valhalla Knights : Eldar Saga does this really well ) Things which I have n't seen yet and would really like to see :   - take advantage of multiple Wii remotes --- I 'd love to see a game which would allow me to find multiple weapons in the game and map them to different Wii remotes , so that Remote 2 could be a pistol shell , Remote 3 the machine-gun like Wii Zapper , while Remote 1 is the bare Remote attached to the Nunchuk and used to control a knife or sword , but has to be put down to switch to the Pistol --- I 'd also like to be able to find multiple pistols , map them to 2 different Wii remotes and then dual-wield   - have a persistent on-line game environment which changes and evolves and has a scripted story arc , or at least a story which makes re-loading the game make sense --- C.J .
Cherryh 's Morgaine saga would make a good template for this   - try a vertical split-screen and allow for co-op playWilliam</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if not, it won't.There should also be a bit more to ``mature'' than splashing blood, gore and violence onto the game and ``decorating'' it w/ T&amp;A.
  - Make games which aren't on-rails, and have large, interesting environments to explore --- while exploration should be challenging, it needs to \_not\_ be frustrating and moving up / down ladders shouldn't require a perfect alignment of the character, the remote and the stars
  - Provide a compelling story-line and universe which makes me want to explore and discover things
  - Be sure to use the Wii motion controls and provide a customizable control scheme (Conduit allows for this while playing the game which is a nice touch) --- pointing w/ the Wii remote using a gun shell is an obvious and easy way to do this (though I want to see more games which allow for the archery style of Wii Sports Resort)
  - Allow the user to control the character including the character's in-game appearance --- use the customized character for all cut-scenes (Valhalla Knights: Eldar Saga does this really well)Things which I haven't seen yet and would really like to see:
  - take advantage of multiple Wii remotes --- I'd love to see a game which would allow me to find multiple weapons in the game and map them to different Wii remotes, so that Remote 2 could be a pistol shell, Remote 3 the machine-gun like Wii Zapper, while Remote 1 is the bare Remote attached to the Nunchuk and used to control a knife or sword, but has to be put down to switch to the Pistol --- I'd also like to be able to find multiple pistols, map them to 2 different Wii remotes and then dual-wield
  - have a persistent on-line game environment which changes and evolves and has a scripted story arc, or at least a story which makes re-loading the game make sense --- C.J.
Cherryh's Morgaine saga would make a good template for this
  - try a vertical split-screen and allow for co-op playWilliam</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976054</id>
	<title>Which "mature" games</title>
	<author>Aceticon</author>
	<datestamp>1256990280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>No one has conclusively proved the case for (or against) the viability of mature games on Wii</p></div></blockquote><p>There are almost <b>no mature games at all</b> for the Wii. Most games for the Wii are either targeted at kids (pretty much everything with cutesy cartoon-ish characters), families (kids games with multi-player really) or teenagers (fast reaction, trigger-happy, repetitive FPSs).</p><p>Even the RPGs (like the Zelda games) seem to have been designed to be within the mental reach of a 5 year-old (or somebody mentally retarded).</p><p>Just recently I got Deadspace for the Wii (an FPS) and it turns out you can't even control the movement of your character - the game boils down to, as your character moves on his own, moving your aiming reticule as fast as possible to aim at the head of whatever comes your way and pressing button and pressing other-button to open doors and other such "puzzles". You could train a monkey to beat that game.</p><p>In two years, the one single game I got for the Wii that can be classified as "mature" is Resident Evil 4 (which was originally released for a different console).</p><p>Maybe the problem is me: as a "mature" game, having started on the ZX Spectrum and gone through many generations of gaming on the PC, I long ago graduated beyond the "brain-dead repetitive" style of gaming: games that will satisfy a teenager or a 5 year old will just look like flat, un-challenging and done-it-already to me.</p><p>In the world of PC games, you can still find engaging and interesting games (for example: Galactic Civilizations), some of which are also console games (such as Bioshock).</p><p>For the Wii, however, it's always the same, usual, bland fare suitable only for those that haven't seen it and done it already a thousand times - only one or two ports of games from other consoles save it from total mediocrity.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No one has conclusively proved the case for ( or against ) the viability of mature games on WiiThere are almost no mature games at all for the Wii .
Most games for the Wii are either targeted at kids ( pretty much everything with cutesy cartoon-ish characters ) , families ( kids games with multi-player really ) or teenagers ( fast reaction , trigger-happy , repetitive FPSs ) .Even the RPGs ( like the Zelda games ) seem to have been designed to be within the mental reach of a 5 year-old ( or somebody mentally retarded ) .Just recently I got Deadspace for the Wii ( an FPS ) and it turns out you ca n't even control the movement of your character - the game boils down to , as your character moves on his own , moving your aiming reticule as fast as possible to aim at the head of whatever comes your way and pressing button and pressing other-button to open doors and other such " puzzles " .
You could train a monkey to beat that game.In two years , the one single game I got for the Wii that can be classified as " mature " is Resident Evil 4 ( which was originally released for a different console ) .Maybe the problem is me : as a " mature " game , having started on the ZX Spectrum and gone through many generations of gaming on the PC , I long ago graduated beyond the " brain-dead repetitive " style of gaming : games that will satisfy a teenager or a 5 year old will just look like flat , un-challenging and done-it-already to me.In the world of PC games , you can still find engaging and interesting games ( for example : Galactic Civilizations ) , some of which are also console games ( such as Bioshock ) .For the Wii , however , it 's always the same , usual , bland fare suitable only for those that have n't seen it and done it already a thousand times - only one or two ports of games from other consoles save it from total mediocrity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No one has conclusively proved the case for (or against) the viability of mature games on WiiThere are almost no mature games at all for the Wii.
Most games for the Wii are either targeted at kids (pretty much everything with cutesy cartoon-ish characters), families (kids games with multi-player really) or teenagers (fast reaction, trigger-happy, repetitive FPSs).Even the RPGs (like the Zelda games) seem to have been designed to be within the mental reach of a 5 year-old (or somebody mentally retarded).Just recently I got Deadspace for the Wii (an FPS) and it turns out you can't even control the movement of your character - the game boils down to, as your character moves on his own, moving your aiming reticule as fast as possible to aim at the head of whatever comes your way and pressing button and pressing other-button to open doors and other such "puzzles".
You could train a monkey to beat that game.In two years, the one single game I got for the Wii that can be classified as "mature" is Resident Evil 4 (which was originally released for a different console).Maybe the problem is me: as a "mature" game, having started on the ZX Spectrum and gone through many generations of gaming on the PC, I long ago graduated beyond the "brain-dead repetitive" style of gaming: games that will satisfy a teenager or a 5 year old will just look like flat, un-challenging and done-it-already to me.In the world of PC games, you can still find engaging and interesting games (for example: Galactic Civilizations), some of which are also console games (such as Bioshock).For the Wii, however, it's always the same, usual, bland fare suitable only for those that haven't seen it and done it already a thousand times - only one or two ports of games from other consoles save it from total mediocrity.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29986764</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>scot4875</author>
	<datestamp>1256987520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most games in general are shit.  This has been true of all consoles in all generations.  The Wii is not special in that regard.  Has everyone already forgotten the huge amount of shovelware that the PS2 had?</p><p>The same can be said for pretty much any medium: most music, movies, books and TV is shit.</p><p>--Jeremy</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most games in general are shit .
This has been true of all consoles in all generations .
The Wii is not special in that regard .
Has everyone already forgotten the huge amount of shovelware that the PS2 had ? The same can be said for pretty much any medium : most music , movies , books and TV is shit.--Jeremy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most games in general are shit.
This has been true of all consoles in all generations.
The Wii is not special in that regard.
Has everyone already forgotten the huge amount of shovelware that the PS2 had?The same can be said for pretty much any medium: most music, movies, books and TV is shit.--Jeremy</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975638</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976978</id>
	<title>Re:Sold my Wii</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256999100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>3) No good singleplayer titles that I could play online.</p> </div><p>Ok, I haven't been a console gamer since the Dreamcast/PS1 generation of consoles, so I admit to being way out of touch here.  But I've played multiplayer games online at friends houses on their 360's and such, as well as plenty of single player games and one or two multiplayer PC games.</p><p>But I have to ask</p><p>Both 'single player' and 'online' at the same time?   That just sounds.. not quite right<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)<br>What games are single player and require being online to play, but not involving other players?</p><p>The only two things that come to mind are simple games that upload your score, and DRM games that need to phone home to run.  I assume you don't mean either of those.</p><p>I guess more than game titles, I'm wondering the -type- of game that would fall under single-player-and-online category.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>3 ) No good singleplayer titles that I could play online .
Ok , I have n't been a console gamer since the Dreamcast/PS1 generation of consoles , so I admit to being way out of touch here .
But I 've played multiplayer games online at friends houses on their 360 's and such , as well as plenty of single player games and one or two multiplayer PC games.But I have to askBoth 'single player ' and 'online ' at the same time ?
That just sounds.. not quite right : ) What games are single player and require being online to play , but not involving other players ? The only two things that come to mind are simple games that upload your score , and DRM games that need to phone home to run .
I assume you do n't mean either of those.I guess more than game titles , I 'm wondering the -type- of game that would fall under single-player-and-online category .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>3) No good singleplayer titles that I could play online.
Ok, I haven't been a console gamer since the Dreamcast/PS1 generation of consoles, so I admit to being way out of touch here.
But I've played multiplayer games online at friends houses on their 360's and such, as well as plenty of single player games and one or two multiplayer PC games.But I have to askBoth 'single player' and 'online' at the same time?
That just sounds.. not quite right :)What games are single player and require being online to play, but not involving other players?The only two things that come to mind are simple games that upload your score, and DRM games that need to phone home to run.
I assume you don't mean either of those.I guess more than game titles, I'm wondering the -type- of game that would fall under single-player-and-online category.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975560</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976104</id>
	<title>Re:Why and why</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256990820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"(How much money is MS making from the 360 again?)"</p><p>I'm not sure, but based on the fact they can just release an off the bat game like Halo 3: ODST which took only a year to develop and still make well over 2 million sales in just a few weeks at an average of $40 to $50 a piece then I'd imagine a complete and utter fuckload. Sales figures for Halo 3 breached 10 million, plenty of other games make it into the millions also. The story is the same for many PS3 games.</p><p>Or are you one of those people who believes that these companies never make a profit because like Sony they initially sell consoles at a loss for the first year or two and they in fact just make consoles for the fun of losing money?</p><p>Apart from the fact the 360 hasn't been sold at a loss for years now, the sheer sales figures of it's games more than make up for any loss, and the higher price point of games coupled with a noticably higher attach rate as well as the vast amounts of DLC be it arcade games, movies, game addons or whatever else and the pure profit of XBox live subscriptions means they are in fact probably making more profit than Nintendo now.</p><p>It'd be stupid to think the 360 (and the PS3 for that matter) aren't making money yet when quite blatantly they're raking in bucketloads, hence the continued investment into the systems like with Natal and Sony's motion controllers as well as Netflix tie ins, Facebook, Twitter tie ins and so on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" ( How much money is MS making from the 360 again ?
) " I 'm not sure , but based on the fact they can just release an off the bat game like Halo 3 : ODST which took only a year to develop and still make well over 2 million sales in just a few weeks at an average of $ 40 to $ 50 a piece then I 'd imagine a complete and utter fuckload .
Sales figures for Halo 3 breached 10 million , plenty of other games make it into the millions also .
The story is the same for many PS3 games.Or are you one of those people who believes that these companies never make a profit because like Sony they initially sell consoles at a loss for the first year or two and they in fact just make consoles for the fun of losing money ? Apart from the fact the 360 has n't been sold at a loss for years now , the sheer sales figures of it 's games more than make up for any loss , and the higher price point of games coupled with a noticably higher attach rate as well as the vast amounts of DLC be it arcade games , movies , game addons or whatever else and the pure profit of XBox live subscriptions means they are in fact probably making more profit than Nintendo now.It 'd be stupid to think the 360 ( and the PS3 for that matter ) are n't making money yet when quite blatantly they 're raking in bucketloads , hence the continued investment into the systems like with Natal and Sony 's motion controllers as well as Netflix tie ins , Facebook , Twitter tie ins and so on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"(How much money is MS making from the 360 again?
)"I'm not sure, but based on the fact they can just release an off the bat game like Halo 3: ODST which took only a year to develop and still make well over 2 million sales in just a few weeks at an average of $40 to $50 a piece then I'd imagine a complete and utter fuckload.
Sales figures for Halo 3 breached 10 million, plenty of other games make it into the millions also.
The story is the same for many PS3 games.Or are you one of those people who believes that these companies never make a profit because like Sony they initially sell consoles at a loss for the first year or two and they in fact just make consoles for the fun of losing money?Apart from the fact the 360 hasn't been sold at a loss for years now, the sheer sales figures of it's games more than make up for any loss, and the higher price point of games coupled with a noticably higher attach rate as well as the vast amounts of DLC be it arcade games, movies, game addons or whatever else and the pure profit of XBox live subscriptions means they are in fact probably making more profit than Nintendo now.It'd be stupid to think the 360 (and the PS3 for that matter) aren't making money yet when quite blatantly they're raking in bucketloads, hence the continued investment into the systems like with Natal and Sony's motion controllers as well as Netflix tie ins, Facebook, Twitter tie ins and so on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975328</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976296</id>
	<title>Re:mature != hyper-violent</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256992920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Plenty of games which are genuinely mature, as opposed to "hyper-violent" don't make it to the Wii at all. There's a great example out there this week; Dragon Age: Origins. Spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, fantasy-themed RPG, contains "adult" content, but not "hyper violence". It's on the PS3. It's on the Xbox360. It's on the PC. But not on the Wii. Why? Chances are because the Wii's hardware just can't handle a genuinely ambitious game like this. There are plenty of other examples around; Batman: Arkham Asylum, Call of Duty - Modern Warfare 2, Operation Flashpoint - Dragon Rising.</p><p>All are big releases, which contain adult themes without being gore-fests, and which are on any other serious platform. None of them are on the Wii. And I'll say it again; the problem is the Wii's hardware.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Plenty of games which are genuinely mature , as opposed to " hyper-violent " do n't make it to the Wii at all .
There 's a great example out there this week ; Dragon Age : Origins .
Spiritual successor to Baldur 's Gate , fantasy-themed RPG , contains " adult " content , but not " hyper violence " .
It 's on the PS3 .
It 's on the Xbox360 .
It 's on the PC .
But not on the Wii .
Why ? Chances are because the Wii 's hardware just ca n't handle a genuinely ambitious game like this .
There are plenty of other examples around ; Batman : Arkham Asylum , Call of Duty - Modern Warfare 2 , Operation Flashpoint - Dragon Rising.All are big releases , which contain adult themes without being gore-fests , and which are on any other serious platform .
None of them are on the Wii .
And I 'll say it again ; the problem is the Wii 's hardware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Plenty of games which are genuinely mature, as opposed to "hyper-violent" don't make it to the Wii at all.
There's a great example out there this week; Dragon Age: Origins.
Spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, fantasy-themed RPG, contains "adult" content, but not "hyper violence".
It's on the PS3.
It's on the Xbox360.
It's on the PC.
But not on the Wii.
Why? Chances are because the Wii's hardware just can't handle a genuinely ambitious game like this.
There are plenty of other examples around; Batman: Arkham Asylum, Call of Duty - Modern Warfare 2, Operation Flashpoint - Dragon Rising.All are big releases, which contain adult themes without being gore-fests, and which are on any other serious platform.
None of them are on the Wii.
And I'll say it again; the problem is the Wii's hardware.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975338</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29987090</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Toonol</author>
	<datestamp>1256989020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>I'm not sure how that's possible when the Wii is 480p and any other modern game console is capabale of offering 720P or higher.</i> <br> <br>

That's just resolution.  Yeah, that's just an opinion, but I'm not the only one that feels that way.  RE4 was on a number of consoles, and the Wii combines the best parts of all of them, and adds an ideal control scheme.  RE4 plays better and is more fun on the Wii than RE5 is on the PS3 or 360; RE5 on teh 360/PS3 LOOKS like a step forward in graphics, but FEELS like a step backward.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not sure how that 's possible when the Wii is 480p and any other modern game console is capabale of offering 720P or higher .
That 's just resolution .
Yeah , that 's just an opinion , but I 'm not the only one that feels that way .
RE4 was on a number of consoles , and the Wii combines the best parts of all of them , and adds an ideal control scheme .
RE4 plays better and is more fun on the Wii than RE5 is on the PS3 or 360 ; RE5 on teh 360/PS3 LOOKS like a step forward in graphics , but FEELS like a step backward .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not sure how that's possible when the Wii is 480p and any other modern game console is capabale of offering 720P or higher.
That's just resolution.
Yeah, that's just an opinion, but I'm not the only one that feels that way.
RE4 was on a number of consoles, and the Wii combines the best parts of all of them, and adds an ideal control scheme.
RE4 plays better and is more fun on the Wii than RE5 is on the PS3 or 360; RE5 on teh 360/PS3 LOOKS like a step forward in graphics, but FEELS like a step backward.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975554</id>
	<title>Welcome to Nintendo.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256984940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Their business model, now enthusiastically adopted by all the other console makers, Apple on the iPhone, etc. has always been to have an iron grip over who and what gets the privilege of running on "their" devices. So whatever market there could be for non-kid games on the Wii, it doesn't matter, because Nintendo have developers' arms twisted behind their backs in order to preserve the Wii's "image".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Their business model , now enthusiastically adopted by all the other console makers , Apple on the iPhone , etc .
has always been to have an iron grip over who and what gets the privilege of running on " their " devices .
So whatever market there could be for non-kid games on the Wii , it does n't matter , because Nintendo have developers ' arms twisted behind their backs in order to preserve the Wii 's " image " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Their business model, now enthusiastically adopted by all the other console makers, Apple on the iPhone, etc.
has always been to have an iron grip over who and what gets the privilege of running on "their" devices.
So whatever market there could be for non-kid games on the Wii, it doesn't matter, because Nintendo have developers' arms twisted behind their backs in order to preserve the Wii's "image".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975544</id>
	<title>Doesn't it depend on Nintendo's strategy?</title>
	<author>stirz</author>
	<datestamp>1256984880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As far as I remember, Nintendo has been trying to build up the corporate image of a "family friendly" entertainment company. The elderly people on slashdot might remember the ridiculous censorship that Nintendo forced on "Maniac Mansion" before they backed its release for the NES (link: <a href="http://www.crockford.com/wrrrld/maniac.html" title="crockford.com">http://www.crockford.com/wrrrld/maniac.html</a> [crockford.com]). Nintendo financially relies on embracing new target audiences for their products to evade direct competition with Sony and Microsoft. Just recall the introduction of the Gameboy, which was technically inferior to its main competitor, the Atari Lynx or think of the WII, which shares most of its components with the not-quite-new Gamecube. Directly targeting the same audiences like Sony or Microsoft got Nintendo in trouble really soon. So, as long as Nintendo does not make an U-turn in its sales strategy it is therefore very likely that "mature" content will be nothing more than a niche that they accept but don't actively promote.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as I remember , Nintendo has been trying to build up the corporate image of a " family friendly " entertainment company .
The elderly people on slashdot might remember the ridiculous censorship that Nintendo forced on " Maniac Mansion " before they backed its release for the NES ( link : http : //www.crockford.com/wrrrld/maniac.html [ crockford.com ] ) .
Nintendo financially relies on embracing new target audiences for their products to evade direct competition with Sony and Microsoft .
Just recall the introduction of the Gameboy , which was technically inferior to its main competitor , the Atari Lynx or think of the WII , which shares most of its components with the not-quite-new Gamecube .
Directly targeting the same audiences like Sony or Microsoft got Nintendo in trouble really soon .
So , as long as Nintendo does not make an U-turn in its sales strategy it is therefore very likely that " mature " content will be nothing more than a niche that they accept but do n't actively promote .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as I remember, Nintendo has been trying to build up the corporate image of a "family friendly" entertainment company.
The elderly people on slashdot might remember the ridiculous censorship that Nintendo forced on "Maniac Mansion" before they backed its release for the NES (link: http://www.crockford.com/wrrrld/maniac.html [crockford.com]).
Nintendo financially relies on embracing new target audiences for their products to evade direct competition with Sony and Microsoft.
Just recall the introduction of the Gameboy, which was technically inferior to its main competitor, the Atari Lynx or think of the WII, which shares most of its components with the not-quite-new Gamecube.
Directly targeting the same audiences like Sony or Microsoft got Nintendo in trouble really soon.
So, as long as Nintendo does not make an U-turn in its sales strategy it is therefore very likely that "mature" content will be nothing more than a niche that they accept but don't actively promote.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975494</id>
	<title>sily silly silly</title>
	<author>BlindRobin</author>
	<datestamp>1256984460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Say it out loud and you can't help but notice that "mature games on Wii" is an absurd, even oxymoronic, phrase.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Say it out loud and you ca n't help but notice that " mature games on Wii " is an absurd , even oxymoronic , phrase .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Say it out loud and you can't help but notice that "mature games on Wii" is an absurd, even oxymoronic, phrase.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976698</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256996880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The definitive version for people who put fun ahead of eye candy, rather.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The definitive version for people who put fun ahead of eye candy , rather .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The definitive version for people who put fun ahead of eye candy, rather.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975558</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>Toonol</author>
	<datestamp>1256985000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, there's a lot.  And, keep in mind that some 'childish looking' games are absolutely very appropriate for adults.  "A Little Kings Story" looks like a cross between Pokemon and a Fairy Tale, but has very sophisticated gameplay and humor.<br> <br>

Some of the games for the Wii you could consider 'mature' in the gritty/violent sense are:  No More Heroes.  The Conduit.  Madworld.  Resident Evil 4.  House of the Dead: Maximum Overkill.  Dead Space: Extraction.  Left for Dead.  Onechanbara: Bikini Zombie Slayers (I LIKE that one!).<br> <br>

Games that are good, but not packed with sex/violence, are:  Fire Emblem.  Phantom Brave.  A Little Kings Story.  Murumasa.  A Boy and his Blob.  Super Mario Galaxies.  Metroid Prime 3.  Tales of Symphonia: A New World.  Okami.  <br> <br>

Upcoming games that look to be good:  Silent Hill: Shattered Memories.  Final Fantasy:Crystal Chronicles:The Crystal Bearers (two colons in that one). Metroid: Other M.  No More Heroes 2.  Red Steel 2.  Monster Hunter 3.  Dragon Quest X.<br> <br>

I kind of went overboard responding to you, because experience tells me that there will be all sorts of posts saying that the Wii has no games, and probably complaining about the inch of dust that's accumulated.  If you look, there are plenty of decent games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , there 's a lot .
And , keep in mind that some 'childish looking ' games are absolutely very appropriate for adults .
" A Little Kings Story " looks like a cross between Pokemon and a Fairy Tale , but has very sophisticated gameplay and humor .
Some of the games for the Wii you could consider 'mature ' in the gritty/violent sense are : No More Heroes .
The Conduit .
Madworld. Resident Evil 4 .
House of the Dead : Maximum Overkill .
Dead Space : Extraction .
Left for Dead .
Onechanbara : Bikini Zombie Slayers ( I LIKE that one ! ) .
Games that are good , but not packed with sex/violence , are : Fire Emblem .
Phantom Brave .
A Little Kings Story .
Murumasa. A Boy and his Blob .
Super Mario Galaxies .
Metroid Prime 3 .
Tales of Symphonia : A New World .
Okami . Upcoming games that look to be good : Silent Hill : Shattered Memories .
Final Fantasy : Crystal Chronicles : The Crystal Bearers ( two colons in that one ) .
Metroid : Other M. No More Heroes 2 .
Red Steel 2 .
Monster Hunter 3 .
Dragon Quest X . I kind of went overboard responding to you , because experience tells me that there will be all sorts of posts saying that the Wii has no games , and probably complaining about the inch of dust that 's accumulated .
If you look , there are plenty of decent games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, there's a lot.
And, keep in mind that some 'childish looking' games are absolutely very appropriate for adults.
"A Little Kings Story" looks like a cross between Pokemon and a Fairy Tale, but has very sophisticated gameplay and humor.
Some of the games for the Wii you could consider 'mature' in the gritty/violent sense are:  No More Heroes.
The Conduit.
Madworld.  Resident Evil 4.
House of the Dead: Maximum Overkill.
Dead Space: Extraction.
Left for Dead.
Onechanbara: Bikini Zombie Slayers (I LIKE that one!).
Games that are good, but not packed with sex/violence, are:  Fire Emblem.
Phantom Brave.
A Little Kings Story.
Murumasa.  A Boy and his Blob.
Super Mario Galaxies.
Metroid Prime 3.
Tales of Symphonia: A New World.
Okami.   

Upcoming games that look to be good:  Silent Hill: Shattered Memories.
Final Fantasy:Crystal Chronicles:The Crystal Bearers (two colons in that one).
Metroid: Other M.  No More Heroes 2.
Red Steel 2.
Monster Hunter 3.
Dragon Quest X. 

I kind of went overboard responding to you, because experience tells me that there will be all sorts of posts saying that the Wii has no games, and probably complaining about the inch of dust that's accumulated.
If you look, there are plenty of decent games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975380</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29983146</id>
	<title>Re:No</title>
	<author>KDR\_11k</author>
	<datestamp>1257019560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. RE4 is on the Gamecube, PS2, Wii and PC. Only the PC can output it above SD resolution<br>2. The PC port looks like ARSE, tons of effects are missing including basic lighting. Higher resolution doesn't make up for that.<br>3. The Wii version has all the content (the PS2 version got extra stuff the GC didn't have), the full graphics (full GC level) and the best controls (possibly tied with the PC but still better than any other console version). Thus it is the definitive version.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
RE4 is on the Gamecube , PS2 , Wii and PC .
Only the PC can output it above SD resolution2 .
The PC port looks like ARSE , tons of effects are missing including basic lighting .
Higher resolution does n't make up for that.3 .
The Wii version has all the content ( the PS2 version got extra stuff the GC did n't have ) , the full graphics ( full GC level ) and the best controls ( possibly tied with the PC but still better than any other console version ) .
Thus it is the definitive version .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
RE4 is on the Gamecube, PS2, Wii and PC.
Only the PC can output it above SD resolution2.
The PC port looks like ARSE, tons of effects are missing including basic lighting.
Higher resolution doesn't make up for that.3.
The Wii version has all the content (the PS2 version got extra stuff the GC didn't have), the full graphics (full GC level) and the best controls (possibly tied with the PC but still better than any other console version).
Thus it is the definitive version.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976106</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975520</id>
	<title>Re:wii go postal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256984640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've always found it a bit funny that "mature" seems to be associated with violence, gore and sex.<br><br>I guess "mature games" are a way for "mature" people to safely release their immature urges<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;).<br><br>BTW it's not only adults who think about sex. Some (many?) children go about humping stuff. It's the adults who are supposed to know what's inappropriate behaviour (and brainwash the children accordingly<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) ).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've always found it a bit funny that " mature " seems to be associated with violence , gore and sex.I guess " mature games " are a way for " mature " people to safely release their immature urges ; ) .BTW it 's not only adults who think about sex .
Some ( many ?
) children go about humping stuff .
It 's the adults who are supposed to know what 's inappropriate behaviour ( and brainwash the children accordingly ; ) ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've always found it a bit funny that "mature" seems to be associated with violence, gore and sex.I guess "mature games" are a way for "mature" people to safely release their immature urges ;).BTW it's not only adults who think about sex.
Some (many?
) children go about humping stuff.
It's the adults who are supposed to know what's inappropriate behaviour (and brainwash the children accordingly ;) ).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29975156</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29987966</id>
	<title>Re:wii go postal</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256992380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am 42, and there's just too much else. I'd rather go have fun in the real world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am 42 , and there 's just too much else .
I 'd rather go have fun in the real world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am 42, and there's just too much else.
I'd rather go have fun in the real world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0510254.29976014</parent>
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