<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_11_04_0239214</id>
	<title>Placebo Effect Caught In the Act In Spinal Nerves</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1257340020000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>SerpensV passes along the news that German scientists have found direct evidence that <a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/326/5951/404">the spinal cord is involved in the placebo effect</a> (whose <a href="//science.slashdot.org/story/09/09/07/1526234/Placebos-Are-Getting-More-Effective">diminishing over time</a> we discussed a bit earlier). <i>"The researchers who made the discovery scanned the spinal cords of volunteers while applying painful heat to one arm. Then they rubbed a cream onto the arm and told the volunteers that it contained a painkiller, but in fact it had no active ingredient. Even so, the cream made spinal-cord neural activity linked to pain vanish. 'This type of mechanism has been envisioned for over 40 years for placebo analgesia,' says Donald Price, a neuroscientist at the University of Florida in Gainesville, who was not involved in the new study. 'This study provides the most direct test of this mechanism to date.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>SerpensV passes along the news that German scientists have found direct evidence that the spinal cord is involved in the placebo effect ( whose diminishing over time we discussed a bit earlier ) .
" The researchers who made the discovery scanned the spinal cords of volunteers while applying painful heat to one arm .
Then they rubbed a cream onto the arm and told the volunteers that it contained a painkiller , but in fact it had no active ingredient .
Even so , the cream made spinal-cord neural activity linked to pain vanish .
'This type of mechanism has been envisioned for over 40 years for placebo analgesia, ' says Donald Price , a neuroscientist at the University of Florida in Gainesville , who was not involved in the new study .
'This study provides the most direct test of this mechanism to date .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>SerpensV passes along the news that German scientists have found direct evidence that the spinal cord is involved in the placebo effect (whose diminishing over time we discussed a bit earlier).
"The researchers who made the discovery scanned the spinal cords of volunteers while applying painful heat to one arm.
Then they rubbed a cream onto the arm and told the volunteers that it contained a painkiller, but in fact it had no active ingredient.
Even so, the cream made spinal-cord neural activity linked to pain vanish.
'This type of mechanism has been envisioned for over 40 years for placebo analgesia,' says Donald Price, a neuroscientist at the University of Florida in Gainesville, who was not involved in the new study.
'This study provides the most direct test of this mechanism to date.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977894</id>
	<title>Spinal nerves effect brain?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257003480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I took part in a study on depression. After a few days on medication the change was dramatic. Friends remarked on it. At the end of the study I was told I was on a placebo. Couldn't believe it as the changes were so dramatic. Felt it must have been a mistake, and the doctor I told this to accepted my response. It is only years later that I've entertained the thought that yes, maybe it was a placebo.

So strange that something that I felt (and I mean that quite literally) had an effect on my brain could be attributed to spinal nerves.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I took part in a study on depression .
After a few days on medication the change was dramatic .
Friends remarked on it .
At the end of the study I was told I was on a placebo .
Could n't believe it as the changes were so dramatic .
Felt it must have been a mistake , and the doctor I told this to accepted my response .
It is only years later that I 've entertained the thought that yes , maybe it was a placebo .
So strange that something that I felt ( and I mean that quite literally ) had an effect on my brain could be attributed to spinal nerves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I took part in a study on depression.
After a few days on medication the change was dramatic.
Friends remarked on it.
At the end of the study I was told I was on a placebo.
Couldn't believe it as the changes were so dramatic.
Felt it must have been a mistake, and the doctor I told this to accepted my response.
It is only years later that I've entertained the thought that yes, maybe it was a placebo.
So strange that something that I felt (and I mean that quite literally) had an effect on my brain could be attributed to spinal nerves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29978266</id>
	<title>Re:Not diminishing.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257004800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>The placebo effect is not an effect per se. </i></p><p>Bullshit.  Tell a person a cream kills pain, apply it, and then observe that the spinal cord no longer shows the nerve activity associated with pain.  I'd call that a pretty impressive effect, wouldn't you?  No, we don't know how it works.  But it's absolutely real and is a unique, distinct phenomenon, and most definitely not simply a measurement artifact.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The placebo effect is not an effect per se .
Bullshit. Tell a person a cream kills pain , apply it , and then observe that the spinal cord no longer shows the nerve activity associated with pain .
I 'd call that a pretty impressive effect , would n't you ?
No , we do n't know how it works .
But it 's absolutely real and is a unique , distinct phenomenon , and most definitely not simply a measurement artifact .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The placebo effect is not an effect per se.
Bullshit.  Tell a person a cream kills pain, apply it, and then observe that the spinal cord no longer shows the nerve activity associated with pain.
I'd call that a pretty impressive effect, wouldn't you?
No, we don't know how it works.
But it's absolutely real and is a unique, distinct phenomenon, and most definitely not simply a measurement artifact.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977172</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977146</id>
	<title>Three cheers for kdawson</title>
	<author>AdmiralXyz</author>
	<datestamp>1257000000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I gotta say, posting a link claiming the placebo effect is "diminishing over time" when that link is to a Slashdot article saying <i>precisely the opposite</i> is a new low.<br>
<br>
Hell, you don't even have to click on the link: you can see what it actually says just by reading the URL!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I got ta say , posting a link claiming the placebo effect is " diminishing over time " when that link is to a Slashdot article saying precisely the opposite is a new low .
Hell , you do n't even have to click on the link : you can see what it actually says just by reading the URL !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I gotta say, posting a link claiming the placebo effect is "diminishing over time" when that link is to a Slashdot article saying precisely the opposite is a new low.
Hell, you don't even have to click on the link: you can see what it actually says just by reading the URL!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977224</id>
	<title>rediscovery of the  gate control theory of pain</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257000420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is not the placebo effect. This is another discovery of the gate control theory of pain. (yet another use of theory to mean something that is proven) Gate control is a fairly well know means to diminish pain by masking it with other sentry nerve impulses. Ever wonder why someone grabs their thumb after hitting it with a hammer or burning it? The sensory impuses from touch and pressure mask the pain impulses.  They saw activity in the spinal cord because that is the channel for the nerve signals to travel.</p><p>From wikipedia:</p><p>The gate control theory of pain, put forward by Ronald Melzack (a Canadian psychologist) and Patrick David Wall (a British physician) in 1962,[1] and again in 1965,[2] is the idea that the perception of physical pain is not a direct result of activation of nociceptors, but instead is modulated by interaction between different neurons, both pain-transmitting and non-pain-transmitting. The theory asserts that activation of nerves that do not transmit pain signals can interfere with signals from pain fibers and inhibit an individual's perception of pain.</p><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate\_control\_theory\_of\_pain</p><p>Chronic pain management for the past ~20 years via spinal cord sitimulation is based on the gate theory and works very well in many 1000s of patients.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is not the placebo effect .
This is another discovery of the gate control theory of pain .
( yet another use of theory to mean something that is proven ) Gate control is a fairly well know means to diminish pain by masking it with other sentry nerve impulses .
Ever wonder why someone grabs their thumb after hitting it with a hammer or burning it ?
The sensory impuses from touch and pressure mask the pain impulses .
They saw activity in the spinal cord because that is the channel for the nerve signals to travel.From wikipedia : The gate control theory of pain , put forward by Ronald Melzack ( a Canadian psychologist ) and Patrick David Wall ( a British physician ) in 1962 , [ 1 ] and again in 1965 , [ 2 ] is the idea that the perception of physical pain is not a direct result of activation of nociceptors , but instead is modulated by interaction between different neurons , both pain-transmitting and non-pain-transmitting .
The theory asserts that activation of nerves that do not transmit pain signals can interfere with signals from pain fibers and inhibit an individual 's perception of pain.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate \ _control \ _theory \ _of \ _painChronic pain management for the past ~ 20 years via spinal cord sitimulation is based on the gate theory and works very well in many 1000s of patients .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is not the placebo effect.
This is another discovery of the gate control theory of pain.
(yet another use of theory to mean something that is proven) Gate control is a fairly well know means to diminish pain by masking it with other sentry nerve impulses.
Ever wonder why someone grabs their thumb after hitting it with a hammer or burning it?
The sensory impuses from touch and pressure mask the pain impulses.
They saw activity in the spinal cord because that is the channel for the nerve signals to travel.From wikipedia:The gate control theory of pain, put forward by Ronald Melzack (a Canadian psychologist) and Patrick David Wall (a British physician) in 1962,[1] and again in 1965,[2] is the idea that the perception of physical pain is not a direct result of activation of nociceptors, but instead is modulated by interaction between different neurons, both pain-transmitting and non-pain-transmitting.
The theory asserts that activation of nerves that do not transmit pain signals can interfere with signals from pain fibers and inhibit an individual's perception of pain.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate\_control\_theory\_of\_painChronic pain management for the past ~20 years via spinal cord sitimulation is based on the gate theory and works very well in many 1000s of patients.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976848</id>
	<title>Acupuncture to be reanalysed</title>
	<author>foobsr</author>
	<datestamp>1256998260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Would be interesting to see if similar effects could be observed regards acupuncture which is rated to be in the realm of placebo by 'old school' medicine.
<br> <br>
CC.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Would be interesting to see if similar effects could be observed regards acupuncture which is rated to be in the realm of placebo by 'old school ' medicine .
CC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would be interesting to see if similar effects could be observed regards acupuncture which is rated to be in the realm of placebo by 'old school' medicine.
CC.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977182</id>
	<title>From someone that has constant pain..</title>
	<author>skgrey</author>
	<datestamp>1257000180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have a degenerative disease, have had a laminectomy, bone spur removals, and have some messed up disks and nerve damage. I've been in some amount pain for about six years and have run the medicine gauntlet.
<br> <br>
From experience, I've been prescribed medicine where the doctor's told me "this is much better than what you are on, it will manage your pain much more effectively". I got all excited, and started taking it. On the first day I was miserable. The second and third days were even worse. After a week I switched back.
<br> <br>
I really think that the placebo effect only works for small amounts of pain, or for certain kinds of pain (there are a lot of different types). In my case, I ended up with a spinal implant (kind of like an internal tens unit) and take a small amount of medicine to manage the pain. It still hurts every day, but I get by much better and work a 40 to 50 hour week and raise kids.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have a degenerative disease , have had a laminectomy , bone spur removals , and have some messed up disks and nerve damage .
I 've been in some amount pain for about six years and have run the medicine gauntlet .
From experience , I 've been prescribed medicine where the doctor 's told me " this is much better than what you are on , it will manage your pain much more effectively " .
I got all excited , and started taking it .
On the first day I was miserable .
The second and third days were even worse .
After a week I switched back .
I really think that the placebo effect only works for small amounts of pain , or for certain kinds of pain ( there are a lot of different types ) .
In my case , I ended up with a spinal implant ( kind of like an internal tens unit ) and take a small amount of medicine to manage the pain .
It still hurts every day , but I get by much better and work a 40 to 50 hour week and raise kids .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have a degenerative disease, have had a laminectomy, bone spur removals, and have some messed up disks and nerve damage.
I've been in some amount pain for about six years and have run the medicine gauntlet.
From experience, I've been prescribed medicine where the doctor's told me "this is much better than what you are on, it will manage your pain much more effectively".
I got all excited, and started taking it.
On the first day I was miserable.
The second and third days were even worse.
After a week I switched back.
I really think that the placebo effect only works for small amounts of pain, or for certain kinds of pain (there are a lot of different types).
In my case, I ended up with a spinal implant (kind of like an internal tens unit) and take a small amount of medicine to manage the pain.
It still hurts every day, but I get by much better and work a 40 to 50 hour week and raise kids.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29980776</id>
	<title>A review of the study; also placebo effect</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1257012780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here is a link to a review of the study, it will clear up most things peopel seemed confused about<br><a href="http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1130#more-1130" title="theness.com">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1130#more-1130</a> [theness.com]</p><p>Here is a nice article on what a placebo effect is, may people here don't seem to understand the term.<br><a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=1248" title="sciencebasedmedicine.org">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=1248</a> [sciencebasedmedicine.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here is a link to a review of the study , it will clear up most things peopel seemed confused abouthttp : //www.theness.com/neurologicablog/ ? p = 1130 # more-1130 [ theness.com ] Here is a nice article on what a placebo effect is , may people here do n't seem to understand the term.http : //www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ ? p = 1248 [ sciencebasedmedicine.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here is a link to a review of the study, it will clear up most things peopel seemed confused abouthttp://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1130#more-1130 [theness.com]Here is a nice article on what a placebo effect is, may people here don't seem to understand the term.http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=1248 [sciencebasedmedicine.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29981106</id>
	<title>Re:From someone that has constant pain..</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1257013740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I really think that the placebo effect only works for small amounts of pain"<br>Yes.</p><p>"r for certain kinds of pain (there are a lot of different types)."<br>close. However it is important to note that there are difference kinds of placebo effects, and a placebo effect can have different effective depending. For example actually opening someone up and closing them will generally have a stronger placebo effect then giving them a sugar pill.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I really think that the placebo effect only works for small amounts of pain " Yes .
" r for certain kinds of pain ( there are a lot of different types ) . " close .
However it is important to note that there are difference kinds of placebo effects , and a placebo effect can have different effective depending .
For example actually opening someone up and closing them will generally have a stronger placebo effect then giving them a sugar pill .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I really think that the placebo effect only works for small amounts of pain"Yes.
"r for certain kinds of pain (there are a lot of different types)."close.
However it is important to note that there are difference kinds of placebo effects, and a placebo effect can have different effective depending.
For example actually opening someone up and closing them will generally have a stronger placebo effect then giving them a sugar pill.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977172</id>
	<title>Re:Not diminishing.</title>
	<author>TwistedGreen</author>
	<datestamp>1257000180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The placebo effect is not an effect per se. Saying that the placebo effect is getting "more effective" is just confusing the issue. It has never been "effective." A placebo "effect" in a study is defined as any effect that is not a direct effect of what is being studies. During a treatment, there may be effects caused by the bedside manner of the physician, the colour of the waiting room, the patient's expectation, plus the myriad associations that a patient may have. All of these things will affect the outcome measure of the study without actually having a real effect. The placebo effect is a problem of measurement. It would be more correct to say that measurement is becoming less effective.<br><br>What the present article identifies is just one of many mechanisms that can interfere with accurate measurement of the actual effect of the test.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The placebo effect is not an effect per se .
Saying that the placebo effect is getting " more effective " is just confusing the issue .
It has never been " effective .
" A placebo " effect " in a study is defined as any effect that is not a direct effect of what is being studies .
During a treatment , there may be effects caused by the bedside manner of the physician , the colour of the waiting room , the patient 's expectation , plus the myriad associations that a patient may have .
All of these things will affect the outcome measure of the study without actually having a real effect .
The placebo effect is a problem of measurement .
It would be more correct to say that measurement is becoming less effective.What the present article identifies is just one of many mechanisms that can interfere with accurate measurement of the actual effect of the test .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The placebo effect is not an effect per se.
Saying that the placebo effect is getting "more effective" is just confusing the issue.
It has never been "effective.
" A placebo "effect" in a study is defined as any effect that is not a direct effect of what is being studies.
During a treatment, there may be effects caused by the bedside manner of the physician, the colour of the waiting room, the patient's expectation, plus the myriad associations that a patient may have.
All of these things will affect the outcome measure of the study without actually having a real effect.
The placebo effect is a problem of measurement.
It would be more correct to say that measurement is becoming less effective.What the present article identifies is just one of many mechanisms that can interfere with accurate measurement of the actual effect of the test.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976904</id>
	<title>Ears and eyes also involved?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256998620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Weren't the ears and eyes of the voluneers also involved? If they hadn't heard the claim, it wouldn't have had the same effect (and did they actually have a control where they rubbed a cream without saying it would diminish pain, perhaps saying it would prevent damage to the skin or perhaps even that it would make it hurt more?). I'd have RTFA except it's behind a paywall.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Were n't the ears and eyes of the voluneers also involved ?
If they had n't heard the claim , it would n't have had the same effect ( and did they actually have a control where they rubbed a cream without saying it would diminish pain , perhaps saying it would prevent damage to the skin or perhaps even that it would make it hurt more ? ) .
I 'd have RTFA except it 's behind a paywall .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Weren't the ears and eyes of the voluneers also involved?
If they hadn't heard the claim, it wouldn't have had the same effect (and did they actually have a control where they rubbed a cream without saying it would diminish pain, perhaps saying it would prevent damage to the skin or perhaps even that it would make it hurt more?).
I'd have RTFA except it's behind a paywall.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29979272</id>
	<title>Re:Your mind</title>
	<author>Red Flayer</author>
	<datestamp>1257008220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The cream did no such thing, the people's minds did this. It's quite unsurprising that as the brain processes pain (which is just information about damage to tissue), that the brain can also switch it (the processing, i.e. feeling) off.</p></div></blockquote><p>Did you read TFA, or even the summary?<br> <br>What they've confirmed is that the pain signal doesn;t even make it to the brain for processing.  <i>There is no pain signal</i> when the placebo effect is working.</p><blockquote><div><p>It's quite unsurprising that as the brain processes pain (which is just information about damage to tissue), that the brain can also switch it (the processing, i.e. feeling) off.Oh, I see... you have very limited knowledge of the physiology of pain response.  It's not "just information about damage to tissue".  That oversimplification is fine for you; but for people who actually want to discuss the mechanisms, it's both somewhat incorrect and useless.<br> <br>Carry on then.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The cream did no such thing , the people 's minds did this .
It 's quite unsurprising that as the brain processes pain ( which is just information about damage to tissue ) , that the brain can also switch it ( the processing , i.e .
feeling ) off.Did you read TFA , or even the summary ?
What they 've confirmed is that the pain signal doesn ; t even make it to the brain for processing .
There is no pain signal when the placebo effect is working.It 's quite unsurprising that as the brain processes pain ( which is just information about damage to tissue ) , that the brain can also switch it ( the processing , i.e .
feeling ) off.Oh , I see... you have very limited knowledge of the physiology of pain response .
It 's not " just information about damage to tissue " .
That oversimplification is fine for you ; but for people who actually want to discuss the mechanisms , it 's both somewhat incorrect and useless .
Carry on then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The cream did no such thing, the people's minds did this.
It's quite unsurprising that as the brain processes pain (which is just information about damage to tissue), that the brain can also switch it (the processing, i.e.
feeling) off.Did you read TFA, or even the summary?
What they've confirmed is that the pain signal doesn;t even make it to the brain for processing.
There is no pain signal when the placebo effect is working.It's quite unsurprising that as the brain processes pain (which is just information about damage to tissue), that the brain can also switch it (the processing, i.e.
feeling) off.Oh, I see... you have very limited knowledge of the physiology of pain response.
It's not "just information about damage to tissue".
That oversimplification is fine for you; but for people who actually want to discuss the mechanisms, it's both somewhat incorrect and useless.
Carry on then.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977032</id>
	<title>No need to worry when the doctor says...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256999340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bend over... this won't hurt a bit... I've got some special cream to rub in...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bend over... this wo n't hurt a bit... I 've got some special cream to rub in.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bend over... this won't hurt a bit... I've got some special cream to rub in...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29978288</id>
	<title>Re:Your mind</title>
	<author>Requiem18th</author>
	<datestamp>1257004920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Interestingly, pain is good for you as it decreases the amount of exposure to danger you are willing to take, so evolution would select against people that don't hate (or even enjoy) pain.</p><p>Of course, too much sensitivity and you run into some other evolutionary problems, I think we've got it about right, most of us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Interestingly , pain is good for you as it decreases the amount of exposure to danger you are willing to take , so evolution would select against people that do n't hate ( or even enjoy ) pain.Of course , too much sensitivity and you run into some other evolutionary problems , I think we 've got it about right , most of us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interestingly, pain is good for you as it decreases the amount of exposure to danger you are willing to take, so evolution would select against people that don't hate (or even enjoy) pain.Of course, too much sensitivity and you run into some other evolutionary problems, I think we've got it about right, most of us.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977162</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29981150</id>
	<title>mo3 d0wn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257013920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">de5ign approach. As myself. This isn't</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>de5ign approach .
As myself .
This is n't [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>de5ign approach.
As myself.
This isn't [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29996292</id>
	<title>Re:Three cheers for kdawson</title>
	<author>MathiasRav</author>
	<datestamp>1257443700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You can see what it actually says just by reading the URL!</p></div><p>You must be new here.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You can see what it actually says just by reading the URL ! You must be new here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can see what it actually says just by reading the URL!You must be new here.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977146</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29978034</id>
	<title>Re:Not diminishing.</title>
	<author>beerbear</author>
	<datestamp>1257003960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>No, it's not getting more effective. People doing these studies have a lot less bias towards
'please make this test show that what we do makes sense'.
<br>
To quote:<p><div class="quote"><p>"Exaggerated claims for the efficacy of a medicament are very seldom the consequence of any intention to deceive; they are usually the outcome of a kindly conspiracy in which everybody has the very best intentions. The patient wants to get well, his physician wants to have made him better, and the pharmaceutical company would have liked to have put it into the physician's power to have made him so. The controlled clinical trial is an attempt to avoid being taken in by this conspiracy of good will."</p> </div><p>(From Advice to a Young Scientist, published in 1979.)
<br>
See <a href="http://www.dcscience.net/" title="dcscience.net" rel="nofollow">this</a> [dcscience.net] great site.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , it 's not getting more effective .
People doing these studies have a lot less bias towards 'please make this test show that what we do makes sense' .
To quote : " Exaggerated claims for the efficacy of a medicament are very seldom the consequence of any intention to deceive ; they are usually the outcome of a kindly conspiracy in which everybody has the very best intentions .
The patient wants to get well , his physician wants to have made him better , and the pharmaceutical company would have liked to have put it into the physician 's power to have made him so .
The controlled clinical trial is an attempt to avoid being taken in by this conspiracy of good will .
" ( From Advice to a Young Scientist , published in 1979 .
) See this [ dcscience.net ] great site .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, it's not getting more effective.
People doing these studies have a lot less bias towards
'please make this test show that what we do makes sense'.
To quote:"Exaggerated claims for the efficacy of a medicament are very seldom the consequence of any intention to deceive; they are usually the outcome of a kindly conspiracy in which everybody has the very best intentions.
The patient wants to get well, his physician wants to have made him better, and the pharmaceutical company would have liked to have put it into the physician's power to have made him so.
The controlled clinical trial is an attempt to avoid being taken in by this conspiracy of good will.
" (From Advice to a Young Scientist, published in 1979.
)

See this [dcscience.net] great site.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29978318</id>
	<title>Re:From someone that has constant pain..</title>
	<author>Abcd1234</author>
	<datestamp>1257005040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>but I get by much better and work a 40 to 50 hour week and raise kids.</i></p><p>Dude, just FYI:  regularly working 40-50 hours a week is absurd, even for a healthy person.  I'd strongly suggest finding an employer that doesn't expect your job to be your life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>but I get by much better and work a 40 to 50 hour week and raise kids.Dude , just FYI : regularly working 40-50 hours a week is absurd , even for a healthy person .
I 'd strongly suggest finding an employer that does n't expect your job to be your life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>but I get by much better and work a 40 to 50 hour week and raise kids.Dude, just FYI:  regularly working 40-50 hours a week is absurd, even for a healthy person.
I'd strongly suggest finding an employer that doesn't expect your job to be your life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29992124</id>
	<title>Re:Not diminishing.</title>
	<author>rdnetto</author>
	<datestamp>1257412800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the placebo effect is getting more effective, does that it mean that we're getting more gullible? Or that our bodies are evolving to maximise it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the placebo effect is getting more effective , does that it mean that we 're getting more gullible ?
Or that our bodies are evolving to maximise it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the placebo effect is getting more effective, does that it mean that we're getting more gullible?
Or that our bodies are evolving to maximise it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976864</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977386</id>
	<title>Suggestive Hypnotism</title>
	<author>Bruha</author>
	<datestamp>1257001140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It just goes to show that people will believe anything, worse their minds make it into reality. *S*  No wonder bible thumpers are so nuts. *S*</p><p>Wake me when telling a cancer patient these meds will help and the body suddenly attacks the cancer.  Mind over matter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It just goes to show that people will believe anything , worse their minds make it into reality .
* S * No wonder bible thumpers are so nuts .
* S * Wake me when telling a cancer patient these meds will help and the body suddenly attacks the cancer .
Mind over matter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It just goes to show that people will believe anything, worse their minds make it into reality.
*S*  No wonder bible thumpers are so nuts.
*S*Wake me when telling a cancer patient these meds will help and the body suddenly attacks the cancer.
Mind over matter.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977306</id>
	<title>Re:What I want to know</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1257000780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Such studies are essentially always paid. Virtually everyone, at least from time to time, does unpleasant or painful things for money.<br> <br>

If anything, this study is on the lighter side as studies go(the lightest, and also least lucrative, studies are probably the basic psych ones; questionnaires, reaction time tests, and the like) as it involves only a pain stimulus designed to be non-damaging and no pharmacologically active agents. Almost certainly less dangerous, and more pleasant, than a fair few "real jobs" out there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Such studies are essentially always paid .
Virtually everyone , at least from time to time , does unpleasant or painful things for money .
If anything , this study is on the lighter side as studies go ( the lightest , and also least lucrative , studies are probably the basic psych ones ; questionnaires , reaction time tests , and the like ) as it involves only a pain stimulus designed to be non-damaging and no pharmacologically active agents .
Almost certainly less dangerous , and more pleasant , than a fair few " real jobs " out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Such studies are essentially always paid.
Virtually everyone, at least from time to time, does unpleasant or painful things for money.
If anything, this study is on the lighter side as studies go(the lightest, and also least lucrative, studies are probably the basic psych ones; questionnaires, reaction time tests, and the like) as it involves only a pain stimulus designed to be non-damaging and no pharmacologically active agents.
Almost certainly less dangerous, and more pleasant, than a fair few "real jobs" out there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29979524</id>
	<title>Re:What I want to know</title>
	<author>zolaar</author>
	<datestamp>1257008940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The chief researcher -- a (now-<i>former</i>) professor at Columbia University, with PhD's in para-psychology <i>and</i> psychology -- was paying volunteers $5, and informed them he was studying the effect of negative re-enforcement on ESP ability.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The chief researcher -- a ( now-former ) professor at Columbia University , with PhD 's in para-psychology and psychology -- was paying volunteers $ 5 , and informed them he was studying the effect of negative re-enforcement on ESP ability .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The chief researcher -- a (now-former) professor at Columbia University, with PhD's in para-psychology and psychology -- was paying volunteers $5, and informed them he was studying the effect of negative re-enforcement on ESP ability.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29981848</id>
	<title>Re:What I want to know</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1257015960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>Pain can be nasty but if you know it's not harming you and it's not going to last, then why not do it?</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>If the pain is severe enough there are permanent brain changes associated with it.  The Army medical research is now recommending all patients receive spinal blocks in addition to anaesthesia before major surgery.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pain can be nasty but if you know it 's not harming you and it 's not going to last , then why not do it ?
If the pain is severe enough there are permanent brain changes associated with it .
The Army medical research is now recommending all patients receive spinal blocks in addition to anaesthesia before major surgery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Pain can be nasty but if you know it's not harming you and it's not going to last, then why not do it?
If the pain is severe enough there are permanent brain changes associated with it.
The Army medical research is now recommending all patients receive spinal blocks in addition to anaesthesia before major surgery.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977098</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976910</id>
	<title>this is not surprising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256998680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have chronic headache and have been a subject in studies. It is well-known that anticipation is an observable component to pain notification and response. To an almost hilarious extent, pain is like gravity in cartoons: if you don't believe it exists, you're less likely to experience it.</p><p>captcha: scratchy (they fight...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have chronic headache and have been a subject in studies .
It is well-known that anticipation is an observable component to pain notification and response .
To an almost hilarious extent , pain is like gravity in cartoons : if you do n't believe it exists , you 're less likely to experience it.captcha : scratchy ( they fight... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have chronic headache and have been a subject in studies.
It is well-known that anticipation is an observable component to pain notification and response.
To an almost hilarious extent, pain is like gravity in cartoons: if you don't believe it exists, you're less likely to experience it.captcha: scratchy (they fight...)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29980650</id>
	<title>You don't understand what a placebo is.</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1257012360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First off, acupuncture has be double blind studied. It has no effect above a placebo*. The is standard medical testing. If it doesn't have an effect above a placebo, it's not considered medical effective.</p><p>Second, Acupuncture relies on mystic belief, not actual knowledge of how the body works.</p><p>Third, A placebo effect doesn't cure ANYTHING. It may make you feel better. It's important to know that before spending money on it. In fact, getting a gentle back rub from a loved one has the same effect, and it's cheaper, and it's time with someone who cares about you.</p><p>Forth, 'Old school medicine' it a logical fallacy just like saying 'Chinese** medicine' or 'western medicine'. Those term where created to pose a false dichotomy from people who have no evidence on there side.</p><p>There is only medicine. It works, or it doesn't work.</p><p>*There are many types of placebo effects.</p><p>** It really should be called Mao medicine. Much of what people consider Chinese medicine was forced onto the population by Mao with no scientific backing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First off , acupuncture has be double blind studied .
It has no effect above a placebo * .
The is standard medical testing .
If it does n't have an effect above a placebo , it 's not considered medical effective.Second , Acupuncture relies on mystic belief , not actual knowledge of how the body works.Third , A placebo effect does n't cure ANYTHING .
It may make you feel better .
It 's important to know that before spending money on it .
In fact , getting a gentle back rub from a loved one has the same effect , and it 's cheaper , and it 's time with someone who cares about you.Forth , 'Old school medicine ' it a logical fallacy just like saying 'Chinese * * medicine ' or 'western medicine' .
Those term where created to pose a false dichotomy from people who have no evidence on there side.There is only medicine .
It works , or it does n't work .
* There are many types of placebo effects .
* * It really should be called Mao medicine .
Much of what people consider Chinese medicine was forced onto the population by Mao with no scientific backing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First off, acupuncture has be double blind studied.
It has no effect above a placebo*.
The is standard medical testing.
If it doesn't have an effect above a placebo, it's not considered medical effective.Second, Acupuncture relies on mystic belief, not actual knowledge of how the body works.Third, A placebo effect doesn't cure ANYTHING.
It may make you feel better.
It's important to know that before spending money on it.
In fact, getting a gentle back rub from a loved one has the same effect, and it's cheaper, and it's time with someone who cares about you.Forth, 'Old school medicine' it a logical fallacy just like saying 'Chinese** medicine' or 'western medicine'.
Those term where created to pose a false dichotomy from people who have no evidence on there side.There is only medicine.
It works, or it doesn't work.
*There are many types of placebo effects.
** It really should be called Mao medicine.
Much of what people consider Chinese medicine was forced onto the population by Mao with no scientific backing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29984580</id>
	<title>Re:Three cheers for kdawson</title>
	<author>hey!</author>
	<datestamp>1256980620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You don't understand. This means kdawson is moving backwards through time.</p><p>Come to think of it, that explains a lot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't understand .
This means kdawson is moving backwards through time.Come to think of it , that explains a lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't understand.
This means kdawson is moving backwards through time.Come to think of it, that explains a lot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977146</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976900</id>
	<title>Employment</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256998620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That sounds like a fun job - you get to burn people, lie right to their face and then publish the results as a scientific breakthrough.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That sounds like a fun job - you get to burn people , lie right to their face and then publish the results as a scientific breakthrough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That sounds like a fun job - you get to burn people, lie right to their face and then publish the results as a scientific breakthrough.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29980806</id>
	<title>Amazing</title>
	<author>YourExperiment</author>
	<datestamp>1257012900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>the spinal cord is involved in the placebo effect</p></div><p>Let's see... they're basically studying the way the of the <i>brain</i> perceives pain inflicted on the <i>body</i>. The spinal cord links the brain to the body. Now we have this astonishing discovery that <b>the spinal cord is involved in this process</b>. I am truly humbled by such revelations.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>the spinal cord is involved in the placebo effectLet 's see... they 're basically studying the way the of the brain perceives pain inflicted on the body .
The spinal cord links the brain to the body .
Now we have this astonishing discovery that the spinal cord is involved in this process .
I am truly humbled by such revelations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the spinal cord is involved in the placebo effectLet's see... they're basically studying the way the of the brain perceives pain inflicted on the body.
The spinal cord links the brain to the body.
Now we have this astonishing discovery that the spinal cord is involved in this process.
I am truly humbled by such revelations.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29987968</id>
	<title>Re:this is not surprising</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256992380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So my best bet at feeling healthy is to believe that placebos don't actually exist and that bottled water is a cure-all:</p><p>There is no placebo.  It's all real.  It's just on a REALLY steep discount.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So my best bet at feeling healthy is to believe that placebos do n't actually exist and that bottled water is a cure-all : There is no placebo .
It 's all real .
It 's just on a REALLY steep discount .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So my best bet at feeling healthy is to believe that placebos don't actually exist and that bottled water is a cure-all:There is no placebo.
It's all real.
It's just on a REALLY steep discount.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976910</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977052</id>
	<title>Tried that too..</title>
	<author>Kleppy</author>
	<datestamp>1256999400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My wife tried a cream. It did nothing for her either.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife tried a cream .
It did nothing for her either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife tried a cream.
It did nothing for her either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977098</id>
	<title>Re:What I want to know</title>
	<author>h4rm0ny</author>
	<datestamp>1256999700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><br>
I volunteered for pain research at our University. I was just curious to see how they did it and what effect it would have on me. Pain can be nasty but if you know it's not harming you and it's not going to last, then why not do it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I volunteered for pain research at our University .
I was just curious to see how they did it and what effect it would have on me .
Pain can be nasty but if you know it 's not harming you and it 's not going to last , then why not do it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I volunteered for pain research at our University.
I was just curious to see how they did it and what effect it would have on me.
Pain can be nasty but if you know it's not harming you and it's not going to last, then why not do it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29985868</id>
	<title>Gate Control Theory of Pain Blocking</title>
	<author>SubComdTaco</author>
	<datestamp>1256984460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Would be interesting to hear how this observed mechanism compares to the Gate Control Theory of Pain Control, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate\_control\_theory\_of\_pain" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate\_control\_theory\_of\_pain</a> [wikipedia.org]</p><p>If this is the same mechanism, then treatment modalities from acupuncture to TENS to etc. might be better evaluated and explained.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would be interesting to hear how this observed mechanism compares to the Gate Control Theory of Pain Control , http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate \ _control \ _theory \ _of \ _pain [ wikipedia.org ] If this is the same mechanism , then treatment modalities from acupuncture to TENS to etc .
might be better evaluated and explained .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would be interesting to hear how this observed mechanism compares to the Gate Control Theory of Pain Control, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate\_control\_theory\_of\_pain [wikipedia.org]If this is the same mechanism, then treatment modalities from acupuncture to TENS to etc.
might be better evaluated and explained.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977910</id>
	<title>Was it the cream or the brain?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257003540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The researchers who made the discovery scanned the spinal cords of volunteers while applying painful heat to one arm. Then they rubbed a cream onto the arm and told the volunteers that it contained a painkiller, but in fact it had no active ingredient. Even so, the cream made spinal-cord neural activity linked to pain vanish.</p></div><p>According to this, there's no way to tell whether it was the cream or the brain.  The doctors didn't rub cream on anyone without telling them anything and/or rub cream on anyone saying that it contained suspended HCL?  Tell people they were rubbing a pain killer powder on their skin?  There was no control group?  This wasn't a well planned experiment.  Just having a soothing balm on the skin might be enough to lower heat pain.  Speaking of which:  did they try any other types of pain?  Heat pain feels quite a bit different from impact pain.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The researchers who made the discovery scanned the spinal cords of volunteers while applying painful heat to one arm .
Then they rubbed a cream onto the arm and told the volunteers that it contained a painkiller , but in fact it had no active ingredient .
Even so , the cream made spinal-cord neural activity linked to pain vanish.According to this , there 's no way to tell whether it was the cream or the brain .
The doctors did n't rub cream on anyone without telling them anything and/or rub cream on anyone saying that it contained suspended HCL ?
Tell people they were rubbing a pain killer powder on their skin ?
There was no control group ?
This was n't a well planned experiment .
Just having a soothing balm on the skin might be enough to lower heat pain .
Speaking of which : did they try any other types of pain ?
Heat pain feels quite a bit different from impact pain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The researchers who made the discovery scanned the spinal cords of volunteers while applying painful heat to one arm.
Then they rubbed a cream onto the arm and told the volunteers that it contained a painkiller, but in fact it had no active ingredient.
Even so, the cream made spinal-cord neural activity linked to pain vanish.According to this, there's no way to tell whether it was the cream or the brain.
The doctors didn't rub cream on anyone without telling them anything and/or rub cream on anyone saying that it contained suspended HCL?
Tell people they were rubbing a pain killer powder on their skin?
There was no control group?
This wasn't a well planned experiment.
Just having a soothing balm on the skin might be enough to lower heat pain.
Speaking of which:  did they try any other types of pain?
Heat pain feels quite a bit different from impact pain.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29984514</id>
	<title>Re:From someone that has constant pain..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256980380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Thanks for having kids and spreading your weak ass genes asshole.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for having kids and spreading your weak ass genes asshole .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for having kids and spreading your weak ass genes asshole.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29982382</id>
	<title>Patient suggestibility</title>
	<author>drunkenkatori</author>
	<datestamp>1257017460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder if credulous people exhibit a stronger placebo effect.  I worry that the increase in the placebo effect is a measure of more credulous population.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if credulous people exhibit a stronger placebo effect .
I worry that the increase in the placebo effect is a measure of more credulous population .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if credulous people exhibit a stronger placebo effect.
I worry that the increase in the placebo effect is a measure of more credulous population.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29978838</id>
	<title>Re:Three cheers for kdawson</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257006780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so it's not even read the fine article but read the fine link!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so it 's not even read the fine article but read the fine link !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so it's not even read the fine article but read the fine link!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977146</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977768</id>
	<title>Bad test?</title>
	<author>rxan</author>
	<datestamp>1257002880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems to me like any cream, painkiller or not, would have soothed some pain as the result of a burn. Isn't this a bad test since the spinal cord would exhibit some kind of pain-soothing activity anyway?

</p><p>I much prefer the pill-based placebo tests.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems to me like any cream , painkiller or not , would have soothed some pain as the result of a burn .
Is n't this a bad test since the spinal cord would exhibit some kind of pain-soothing activity anyway ?
I much prefer the pill-based placebo tests .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems to me like any cream, painkiller or not, would have soothed some pain as the result of a burn.
Isn't this a bad test since the spinal cord would exhibit some kind of pain-soothing activity anyway?
I much prefer the pill-based placebo tests.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29992238</id>
	<title>Placebo Wonders</title>
	<author>PingPongBoy</author>
	<datestamp>1257414060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After I've been told over and over Windows 7 is faster, it really is. Free from pain at last!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After I 've been told over and over Windows 7 is faster , it really is .
Free from pain at last !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After I've been told over and over Windows 7 is faster, it really is.
Free from pain at last!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29980838</id>
	<title>My Anecdote</title>
	<author>pwagle</author>
	<datestamp>1257012960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>When I was 15, I had a bicycle wreck where I received major road-rash on my entire left side.  Unable to tolerate the pain that evening enough to sleep, I went to the emergency room, where I was given codeine.  That helped a lot.

The next morning, I had to take a shower.  Expecting that to hurt a lot, I, for some reason, decided to see if I could "shut off" the pain while exposing the road-rash to the running water.

Somehow I did some mental twist that completely shut off the pain.

My interpretation/guess at the time was that the codeine taught my brain a technique to shut off the pain.  This would be interesting if true.

I've been able to repeat this several times since then, but not with headaches.

Took neural anatomy years later, where I found out that facial nerves don't come from the spine.  I also found out that the spine itself has controllers that control muscles.  The brain controls those controllers.  My interpretation/guess is that I need the spinal controllers to control pain, and I don't have those for facial (sinus?) pain.

I'm uncomfortable calling this "placebo" effect.  Seems like its something else.  But maybe that's because here I have a mechanism, and I prefer to label only the mysterious as "placebo".</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was 15 , I had a bicycle wreck where I received major road-rash on my entire left side .
Unable to tolerate the pain that evening enough to sleep , I went to the emergency room , where I was given codeine .
That helped a lot .
The next morning , I had to take a shower .
Expecting that to hurt a lot , I , for some reason , decided to see if I could " shut off " the pain while exposing the road-rash to the running water .
Somehow I did some mental twist that completely shut off the pain .
My interpretation/guess at the time was that the codeine taught my brain a technique to shut off the pain .
This would be interesting if true .
I 've been able to repeat this several times since then , but not with headaches .
Took neural anatomy years later , where I found out that facial nerves do n't come from the spine .
I also found out that the spine itself has controllers that control muscles .
The brain controls those controllers .
My interpretation/guess is that I need the spinal controllers to control pain , and I do n't have those for facial ( sinus ?
) pain .
I 'm uncomfortable calling this " placebo " effect .
Seems like its something else .
But maybe that 's because here I have a mechanism , and I prefer to label only the mysterious as " placebo " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was 15, I had a bicycle wreck where I received major road-rash on my entire left side.
Unable to tolerate the pain that evening enough to sleep, I went to the emergency room, where I was given codeine.
That helped a lot.
The next morning, I had to take a shower.
Expecting that to hurt a lot, I, for some reason, decided to see if I could "shut off" the pain while exposing the road-rash to the running water.
Somehow I did some mental twist that completely shut off the pain.
My interpretation/guess at the time was that the codeine taught my brain a technique to shut off the pain.
This would be interesting if true.
I've been able to repeat this several times since then, but not with headaches.
Took neural anatomy years later, where I found out that facial nerves don't come from the spine.
I also found out that the spine itself has controllers that control muscles.
The brain controls those controllers.
My interpretation/guess is that I need the spinal controllers to control pain, and I don't have those for facial (sinus?
) pain.
I'm uncomfortable calling this "placebo" effect.
Seems like its something else.
But maybe that's because here I have a mechanism, and I prefer to label only the mysterious as "placebo".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29979676</id>
	<title>Re:From someone that has constant pain..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257009420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In order for the placebo effect to work it has to be believed. At this point I'm willing to bet that you don't really believe that a new pain medication will really be effective. You may get excited and "hope" that it will be better but do you really believe that it is better or are you waiting for it to not work?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In order for the placebo effect to work it has to be believed .
At this point I 'm willing to bet that you do n't really believe that a new pain medication will really be effective .
You may get excited and " hope " that it will be better but do you really believe that it is better or are you waiting for it to not work ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In order for the placebo effect to work it has to be believed.
At this point I'm willing to bet that you don't really believe that a new pain medication will really be effective.
You may get excited and "hope" that it will be better but do you really believe that it is better or are you waiting for it to not work?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29978338</id>
	<title>Re:Not diminishing.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257005100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've seen this said before and it is incorrect.<p>
<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/placebo" title="reference.com">Placebo means sugar pill or treatment without active ingredient.</a> [reference.com] <br>
<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/placebo+effect" title="reference.com">The common definition of placebo effect</a> [reference.com] specifically refers to the positive results or side effects caused *only* as a direct response to the patient's belief and expectations that the placebo they are receiving will work. That single aspect is referred to as the placebo effect.
</p><p>
Also, yes you can say that a placebo is effective. Because you can compare a placebo group with a non-treated group. If 30\% less patients die within a year in the placebo group than in the non-treatment group and your stats are solid, you've either got a really kick ass sugar pill that's actually curing people and you need to alert the FDA *or* *drum roll* They got better because of the fake treatment. IE placebo effect.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The placebo effect is a problem of measurement. It would be more correct to say that measurement is becoming less effective.</p></div><p>
Clearly measurement is not becoming less effective. The placebo effect is real and can be described and quantitated and no way prevents determining the efficacy of new drugs. In fact our knowledge, technique, experimental design and standards are all improving leading to more accurate *and* precise measurements.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've seen this said before and it is incorrect .
Placebo means sugar pill or treatment without active ingredient .
[ reference.com ] The common definition of placebo effect [ reference.com ] specifically refers to the positive results or side effects caused * only * as a direct response to the patient 's belief and expectations that the placebo they are receiving will work .
That single aspect is referred to as the placebo effect .
Also , yes you can say that a placebo is effective .
Because you can compare a placebo group with a non-treated group .
If 30 \ % less patients die within a year in the placebo group than in the non-treatment group and your stats are solid , you 've either got a really kick ass sugar pill that 's actually curing people and you need to alert the FDA * or * * drum roll * They got better because of the fake treatment .
IE placebo effect.The placebo effect is a problem of measurement .
It would be more correct to say that measurement is becoming less effective .
Clearly measurement is not becoming less effective .
The placebo effect is real and can be described and quantitated and no way prevents determining the efficacy of new drugs .
In fact our knowledge , technique , experimental design and standards are all improving leading to more accurate * and * precise measurements .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've seen this said before and it is incorrect.
Placebo means sugar pill or treatment without active ingredient.
[reference.com] 
The common definition of placebo effect [reference.com] specifically refers to the positive results or side effects caused *only* as a direct response to the patient's belief and expectations that the placebo they are receiving will work.
That single aspect is referred to as the placebo effect.
Also, yes you can say that a placebo is effective.
Because you can compare a placebo group with a non-treated group.
If 30\% less patients die within a year in the placebo group than in the non-treatment group and your stats are solid, you've either got a really kick ass sugar pill that's actually curing people and you need to alert the FDA *or* *drum roll* They got better because of the fake treatment.
IE placebo effect.The placebo effect is a problem of measurement.
It would be more correct to say that measurement is becoming less effective.
Clearly measurement is not becoming less effective.
The placebo effect is real and can be described and quantitated and no way prevents determining the efficacy of new drugs.
In fact our knowledge, technique, experimental design and standards are all improving leading to more accurate *and* precise measurements.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977172</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29978528</id>
	<title>Re:From someone that has constant pain..</title>
	<author>houghi</author>
	<datestamp>1257005880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps a reverse placebo effect. Or the medicine you take now triggers the placebo effect.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps a reverse placebo effect .
Or the medicine you take now triggers the placebo effect .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps a reverse placebo effect.
Or the medicine you take now triggers the placebo effect.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977214</id>
	<title>Re:Acupuncture to be reanalysed</title>
	<author>itsenrique</author>
	<datestamp>1257000360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There has never been any reliable effect, and as studies become increasingly more well-designed, effect sizes diminish or disappear completely. This is a sign that there is nothing happening.</p></div><p>Or a sign the studies are being designed by people who already believe acupuncture doesn't work.  Never doubt the power of bias.  Any studies from asian universities agreeing with your conclusion?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There has never been any reliable effect , and as studies become increasingly more well-designed , effect sizes diminish or disappear completely .
This is a sign that there is nothing happening.Or a sign the studies are being designed by people who already believe acupuncture does n't work .
Never doubt the power of bias .
Any studies from asian universities agreeing with your conclusion ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There has never been any reliable effect, and as studies become increasingly more well-designed, effect sizes diminish or disappear completely.
This is a sign that there is nothing happening.Or a sign the studies are being designed by people who already believe acupuncture doesn't work.
Never doubt the power of bias.
Any studies from asian universities agreeing with your conclusion?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29979118</id>
	<title>Fi3r5t</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257007680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Tr0ubles of those risk lloking even sux0r status, *BSD</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tr0ubles of those risk lloking even sux0r status , * BSD</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tr0ubles of those risk lloking even sux0r status, *BSD</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29989384</id>
	<title>placebo abuse</title>
	<author>vulcanrob</author>
	<datestamp>1256999460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Articles like this are irresponsible and just lead to further placebo abuse.  I've been hooked on placebos for years and this just makes me cringe.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Articles like this are irresponsible and just lead to further placebo abuse .
I 've been hooked on placebos for years and this just makes me cringe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Articles like this are irresponsible and just lead to further placebo abuse.
I've been hooked on placebos for years and this just makes me cringe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977228</id>
	<title>Placebo and pain modulation...</title>
	<author>blahplusplus</author>
	<datestamp>1257000420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... it make's sense that placebo effect exists because the ability to shut on and shut off pain perception is critical to human development.</p><p>There is a condition where people feel no pain at all, see this article here of a girl who feels no pain.</p><p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/conditions/02/03/btsc.oppenheim/" title="cnn.com">http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/conditions/02/03/btsc.oppenheim/</a> [cnn.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... it make 's sense that placebo effect exists because the ability to shut on and shut off pain perception is critical to human development.There is a condition where people feel no pain at all , see this article here of a girl who feels no pain.http : //www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/conditions/02/03/btsc.oppenheim/ [ cnn.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... it make's sense that placebo effect exists because the ability to shut on and shut off pain perception is critical to human development.There is a condition where people feel no pain at all, see this article here of a girl who feels no pain.http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/conditions/02/03/btsc.oppenheim/ [cnn.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977460</id>
	<title>Re:What I want to know</title>
	<author>conureman</author>
	<datestamp>1257001440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My brother, Maharishi Bob, did a bit of drug-testing. Some of it paid for by the military. They'd shoot him up with Atropine, and he did something like "Battlezone", testing his ability to track the targets while medicated. I guess it has some prophylactic benefits for nerve gas exposure. My old buddy Gene, I guess, found what the lethal dose was for Atropine. He didn't come back. Neither of them, BTW, was necessarily in their right mind, it WAS the '70s...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My brother , Maharishi Bob , did a bit of drug-testing .
Some of it paid for by the military .
They 'd shoot him up with Atropine , and he did something like " Battlezone " , testing his ability to track the targets while medicated .
I guess it has some prophylactic benefits for nerve gas exposure .
My old buddy Gene , I guess , found what the lethal dose was for Atropine .
He did n't come back .
Neither of them , BTW , was necessarily in their right mind , it WAS the '70s.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My brother, Maharishi Bob, did a bit of drug-testing.
Some of it paid for by the military.
They'd shoot him up with Atropine, and he did something like "Battlezone", testing his ability to track the targets while medicated.
I guess it has some prophylactic benefits for nerve gas exposure.
My old buddy Gene, I guess, found what the lethal dose was for Atropine.
He didn't come back.
Neither of them, BTW, was necessarily in their right mind, it WAS the '70s...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977326</id>
	<title>More Confirmation of Scientific Materialism</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257000840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is an interesting insight into the functioning of the nervous system in response to expectation. If anything, it shows the error in the phrase, "It's all in the head." The perception of pain, and indeed all neurological processes, are not incorporeal and can be shown to have actual physical mechanisms. More reason to dismiss anti-psychiatry claims such as those espoused by Scientology. Mental illness is physical illness, and while it may sometimes be treated by psychological means, it can also be treated by physical means and there is nothing inherently wrong with that approach.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is an interesting insight into the functioning of the nervous system in response to expectation .
If anything , it shows the error in the phrase , " It 's all in the head .
" The perception of pain , and indeed all neurological processes , are not incorporeal and can be shown to have actual physical mechanisms .
More reason to dismiss anti-psychiatry claims such as those espoused by Scientology .
Mental illness is physical illness , and while it may sometimes be treated by psychological means , it can also be treated by physical means and there is nothing inherently wrong with that approach .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is an interesting insight into the functioning of the nervous system in response to expectation.
If anything, it shows the error in the phrase, "It's all in the head.
" The perception of pain, and indeed all neurological processes, are not incorporeal and can be shown to have actual physical mechanisms.
More reason to dismiss anti-psychiatry claims such as those espoused by Scientology.
Mental illness is physical illness, and while it may sometimes be treated by psychological means, it can also be treated by physical means and there is nothing inherently wrong with that approach.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977362</id>
	<title>Re:Acupuncture to be reanalysed</title>
	<author>Rakshasa Taisab</author>
	<datestamp>1257001080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You kinda slept through the part where he was talking about acupuncture as being effective due to the placebo effect?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You kinda slept through the part where he was talking about acupuncture as being effective due to the placebo effect ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You kinda slept through the part where he was talking about acupuncture as being effective due to the placebo effect?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29986734</id>
	<title>Re:Your mind</title>
	<author>raind</author>
	<datestamp>1256987400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Does this explain how martial artists can break bricks with hands or feet. how about the folks who walk over hot coals?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does this explain how martial artists can break bricks with hands or feet .
how about the folks who walk over hot coals ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does this explain how martial artists can break bricks with hands or feet.
how about the folks who walk over hot coals?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29979272</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977162</id>
	<title>Your mind</title>
	<author>s-whs</author>
	<datestamp>1257000120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Even so, the cream made spinal-cord neural activity linked to pain vanish.</p><p>The cream did no such thing, the people's minds did this. It's quite unsurprising that as the brain processes pain (which is just information about damage to tissue), that the brain can also switch it (the processing, i.e. feeling) off.</p><p>I can do this whenever I want. First time I did this when I was 12 or so, and for the umpteenth time the lid of the kettle to boil water for tea fell off, and I burnt my hand. Painful and annoying. I said to myself: Enough, no more pain! And gone it was. Not really anything special I believe, see e.g. fakirs.</p><p>Of course the 'placebo effect' is more than just turning off pain, it's also about getting better without medicine, i.e. making your body do things to repair itself. This I also do consciously (i.e. I tell myself that my immune system should work harder to kill the 'intruders'<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)) and may be the reason why I'm almost never ill, and when I am, I recover very quickly (I never go to a doctor).</p><p>Reminds me of a Married with children episode btw.:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; [ Al ] I feel strong!<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; { Peggy says something }<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; [ Al ] I feel weak...</p><p>(paraphrasing).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Even so , the cream made spinal-cord neural activity linked to pain vanish.The cream did no such thing , the people 's minds did this .
It 's quite unsurprising that as the brain processes pain ( which is just information about damage to tissue ) , that the brain can also switch it ( the processing , i.e .
feeling ) off.I can do this whenever I want .
First time I did this when I was 12 or so , and for the umpteenth time the lid of the kettle to boil water for tea fell off , and I burnt my hand .
Painful and annoying .
I said to myself : Enough , no more pain !
And gone it was .
Not really anything special I believe , see e.g .
fakirs.Of course the 'placebo effect ' is more than just turning off pain , it 's also about getting better without medicine , i.e .
making your body do things to repair itself .
This I also do consciously ( i.e .
I tell myself that my immune system should work harder to kill the 'intruders ' : ) ) and may be the reason why I 'm almost never ill , and when I am , I recover very quickly ( I never go to a doctor ) .Reminds me of a Married with children episode btw .
:     [ Al ] I feel strong !
        { Peggy says something }     [ Al ] I feel weak... ( paraphrasing ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Even so, the cream made spinal-cord neural activity linked to pain vanish.The cream did no such thing, the people's minds did this.
It's quite unsurprising that as the brain processes pain (which is just information about damage to tissue), that the brain can also switch it (the processing, i.e.
feeling) off.I can do this whenever I want.
First time I did this when I was 12 or so, and for the umpteenth time the lid of the kettle to boil water for tea fell off, and I burnt my hand.
Painful and annoying.
I said to myself: Enough, no more pain!
And gone it was.
Not really anything special I believe, see e.g.
fakirs.Of course the 'placebo effect' is more than just turning off pain, it's also about getting better without medicine, i.e.
making your body do things to repair itself.
This I also do consciously (i.e.
I tell myself that my immune system should work harder to kill the 'intruders' :)) and may be the reason why I'm almost never ill, and when I am, I recover very quickly (I never go to a doctor).Reminds me of a Married with children episode btw.
:
    [ Al ] I feel strong!
        { Peggy says something }
    [ Al ] I feel weak...(paraphrasing).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976864</id>
	<title>Not diminishing.</title>
	<author>Jaysyn</author>
	<datestamp>1256998380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The placebo effect isn't getting weaker, it's getting more effective.  The<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. article linked even states that.  It the reason why if prozac was a new drug today it more than likely would have been rejected by the FDA.</p><p>Also see these Wired &amp; TechDirt articles.</p><p><a href="http://www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/magazine/17-09/ff\_placebo\_effect?currentPage=all" title="wired.com">http://www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/magazine/17-09/ff\_placebo\_effect?currentPage=all</a> [wired.com]</p><p><a href="http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090827/0212446014.shtml" title="techdirt.com">http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090827/0212446014.shtml</a> [techdirt.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The placebo effect is n't getting weaker , it 's getting more effective .
The / .
article linked even states that .
It the reason why if prozac was a new drug today it more than likely would have been rejected by the FDA.Also see these Wired &amp; TechDirt articles.http : //www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/magazine/17-09/ff \ _placebo \ _effect ? currentPage = all [ wired.com ] http : //www.techdirt.com/articles/20090827/0212446014.shtml [ techdirt.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The placebo effect isn't getting weaker, it's getting more effective.
The /.
article linked even states that.
It the reason why if prozac was a new drug today it more than likely would have been rejected by the FDA.Also see these Wired &amp; TechDirt articles.http://www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/magazine/17-09/ff\_placebo\_effect?currentPage=all [wired.com]http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090827/0212446014.shtml [techdirt.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29978612</id>
	<title>I need help!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257006120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My missus seems to have the opposite of the placebo effect, she keeps convincing herself she has various ailments when in reality there is nothing wrong.  She used to normal, never got sick, never complained about anything then about a year ago she got a small benign tumor that was messing with her hormones, something to do with the pituitary gland.  She had it removed lapriscopically and the doctor said she should be back to normal in a couple of weeks, month tops for the hormones to balance out again.</p><p>We are now going on 12 months and she's turned into a complete hypochondriac.  She is so convinced in her mind that she is sick and that its going to take 'years' (her words) to get over this, that she just keeps seeing ailments that aren't there.  Its like she won't accept that there is actually nothing physically wrong with her, and actively looks for problems trying to justify to herself how ill she is.  She keeps making appointments with just about every kind of doctor in the city and coming up with vague symptoms of this or that, the doctor gives her a prescription for some other pain killer and off she goes.</p><p>Its really getting me down, the amount of money she is spending on doctors, drugs, chiropractic visits, herbal homeopathic bullshit every month is dragging me under, plus shes not exactly great company because shes moping around all the time.  She won't work, hell she won't leave the house anymore.  I really don't know what to do.  Sometimes I think I could get out of this if I just died.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My missus seems to have the opposite of the placebo effect , she keeps convincing herself she has various ailments when in reality there is nothing wrong .
She used to normal , never got sick , never complained about anything then about a year ago she got a small benign tumor that was messing with her hormones , something to do with the pituitary gland .
She had it removed lapriscopically and the doctor said she should be back to normal in a couple of weeks , month tops for the hormones to balance out again.We are now going on 12 months and she 's turned into a complete hypochondriac .
She is so convinced in her mind that she is sick and that its going to take 'years ' ( her words ) to get over this , that she just keeps seeing ailments that are n't there .
Its like she wo n't accept that there is actually nothing physically wrong with her , and actively looks for problems trying to justify to herself how ill she is .
She keeps making appointments with just about every kind of doctor in the city and coming up with vague symptoms of this or that , the doctor gives her a prescription for some other pain killer and off she goes.Its really getting me down , the amount of money she is spending on doctors , drugs , chiropractic visits , herbal homeopathic bullshit every month is dragging me under , plus shes not exactly great company because shes moping around all the time .
She wo n't work , hell she wo n't leave the house anymore .
I really do n't know what to do .
Sometimes I think I could get out of this if I just died .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My missus seems to have the opposite of the placebo effect, she keeps convincing herself she has various ailments when in reality there is nothing wrong.
She used to normal, never got sick, never complained about anything then about a year ago she got a small benign tumor that was messing with her hormones, something to do with the pituitary gland.
She had it removed lapriscopically and the doctor said she should be back to normal in a couple of weeks, month tops for the hormones to balance out again.We are now going on 12 months and she's turned into a complete hypochondriac.
She is so convinced in her mind that she is sick and that its going to take 'years' (her words) to get over this, that she just keeps seeing ailments that aren't there.
Its like she won't accept that there is actually nothing physically wrong with her, and actively looks for problems trying to justify to herself how ill she is.
She keeps making appointments with just about every kind of doctor in the city and coming up with vague symptoms of this or that, the doctor gives her a prescription for some other pain killer and off she goes.Its really getting me down, the amount of money she is spending on doctors, drugs, chiropractic visits, herbal homeopathic bullshit every month is dragging me under, plus shes not exactly great company because shes moping around all the time.
She won't work, hell she won't leave the house anymore.
I really don't know what to do.
Sometimes I think I could get out of this if I just died.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29978494</id>
	<title>Re:Three cheers for kdawson</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1257005760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, way to go, mixing up two time scales, just to bash kdawson again.<br>While I agree that he may not be the greatest story poster, this time, you was way over your head.</p><p>Because what he meant, is that when you apply the placebo, then because one expects the effect of a medicine to diminish after a certain time, the body simulates that for placebos too.<br>And what you meant, is that placebos nowadays work better than they worked e.g. decades ago.</p><p>These are two totally different time scales.<br>Imagine it as taking a big structure that looks like this:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/|<br>And putting lots of these tiny structures that look like this on its slope: |\<br>The first one is yours. The second one is his.</p><p>No conflict at all. Just a knee-jerk reaction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , way to go , mixing up two time scales , just to bash kdawson again.While I agree that he may not be the greatest story poster , this time , you was way over your head.Because what he meant , is that when you apply the placebo , then because one expects the effect of a medicine to diminish after a certain time , the body simulates that for placebos too.And what you meant , is that placebos nowadays work better than they worked e.g .
decades ago.These are two totally different time scales.Imagine it as taking a big structure that looks like this : / | And putting lots of these tiny structures that look like this on its slope : | \ The first one is yours .
The second one is his.No conflict at all .
Just a knee-jerk reaction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, way to go, mixing up two time scales, just to bash kdawson again.While I agree that he may not be the greatest story poster, this time, you was way over your head.Because what he meant, is that when you apply the placebo, then because one expects the effect of a medicine to diminish after a certain time, the body simulates that for placebos too.And what you meant, is that placebos nowadays work better than they worked e.g.
decades ago.These are two totally different time scales.Imagine it as taking a big structure that looks like this: /|And putting lots of these tiny structures that look like this on its slope: |\The first one is yours.
The second one is his.No conflict at all.
Just a knee-jerk reaction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977146</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29979990</id>
	<title>Re:From someone that has constant pain..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1257010320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The placebo effect works differently for different people, if you deep down didn't think the pain pill would work, guess what, you just have it placebo'd to work worse. so if you expect things not to work ont he sub level of thinking they tend to.</p><p>but the effect is different in how strong it can be in people as well</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The placebo effect works differently for different people , if you deep down did n't think the pain pill would work , guess what , you just have it placebo 'd to work worse .
so if you expect things not to work ont he sub level of thinking they tend to.but the effect is different in how strong it can be in people as well</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The placebo effect works differently for different people, if you deep down didn't think the pain pill would work, guess what, you just have it placebo'd to work worse.
so if you expect things not to work ont he sub level of thinking they tend to.but the effect is different in how strong it can be in people as well</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977182</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977492</id>
	<title>Re:Ears and eyes also involved?</title>
	<author>TwistedGreen</author>
	<datestamp>1257001560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, that's the point. The study is showing physiological effects of patient expectation. Patient expectation is based on past experience, cultural beliefs, and whatever the doctor (or any other person in authority, for that matter) tells you, even if the treatment is just an inert cream or a sugar pill. This study is just confirmation that when a patient claims to feel less pain, there is actual nervous system activity to support this perception.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , that 's the point .
The study is showing physiological effects of patient expectation .
Patient expectation is based on past experience , cultural beliefs , and whatever the doctor ( or any other person in authority , for that matter ) tells you , even if the treatment is just an inert cream or a sugar pill .
This study is just confirmation that when a patient claims to feel less pain , there is actual nervous system activity to support this perception .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, that's the point.
The study is showing physiological effects of patient expectation.
Patient expectation is based on past experience, cultural beliefs, and whatever the doctor (or any other person in authority, for that matter) tells you, even if the treatment is just an inert cream or a sugar pill.
This study is just confirmation that when a patient claims to feel less pain, there is actual nervous system activity to support this perception.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976904</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977036</id>
	<title>Re:Acupuncture to be reanalysed</title>
	<author>TwistedGreen</author>
	<datestamp>1256999400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Acupuncture has been analyzed and re-analyzed to death already. There has never been any reliable effect, and as studies become increasingly more well-designed, effect sizes diminish or disappear completely. This is a sign that there is nothing happening. Amusingly, acupuncture with fake needles is consistently shown to be just as effective as real acupuncture. It's telling that proponents often consider that to be evidence in favour of acupuncture.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Acupuncture has been analyzed and re-analyzed to death already .
There has never been any reliable effect , and as studies become increasingly more well-designed , effect sizes diminish or disappear completely .
This is a sign that there is nothing happening .
Amusingly , acupuncture with fake needles is consistently shown to be just as effective as real acupuncture .
It 's telling that proponents often consider that to be evidence in favour of acupuncture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Acupuncture has been analyzed and re-analyzed to death already.
There has never been any reliable effect, and as studies become increasingly more well-designed, effect sizes diminish or disappear completely.
This is a sign that there is nothing happening.
Amusingly, acupuncture with fake needles is consistently shown to be just as effective as real acupuncture.
It's telling that proponents often consider that to be evidence in favour of acupuncture.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29978864</id>
	<title>Re:Acupuncture to be reanalysed</title>
	<author>plague3106</author>
	<datestamp>1257006900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you're missing the point here.  Whether or not acupuncture actually does something is irrelevent; if it makes you FEEL better, then its done something.  One use is stress relief; if you come out feeling less stress, then it worked, didn't it, regardless of which needles were used or where they were placed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you 're missing the point here .
Whether or not acupuncture actually does something is irrelevent ; if it makes you FEEL better , then its done something .
One use is stress relief ; if you come out feeling less stress , then it worked , did n't it , regardless of which needles were used or where they were placed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you're missing the point here.
Whether or not acupuncture actually does something is irrelevent; if it makes you FEEL better, then its done something.
One use is stress relief; if you come out feeling less stress, then it worked, didn't it, regardless of which needles were used or where they were placed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977036</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977282</id>
	<title>Re:What I want to know</title>
	<author>Carewolf</author>
	<datestamp>1257000720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Volunteers for medical experiments get paid. If the procedure is known to be painful you get payed more. Med students are often used, but many other students earn a little extra that way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Volunteers for medical experiments get paid .
If the procedure is known to be painful you get payed more .
Med students are often used , but many other students earn a little extra that way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Volunteers for medical experiments get paid.
If the procedure is known to be painful you get payed more.
Med students are often used, but many other students earn a little extra that way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976896</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977886</id>
	<title>A very powerful treatment</title>
	<author>mbone</author>
	<datestamp>1257003420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The placebo effect is not at all just about pain - in many cases, it is considerably more powerful than the drugs the Doctor prescribes. A rational medical system would spend considerable resources on studying ways to improve the placebo effect. It is a pretty good bet that exhaustive paper work and hospital green paint is not it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The placebo effect is not at all just about pain - in many cases , it is considerably more powerful than the drugs the Doctor prescribes .
A rational medical system would spend considerable resources on studying ways to improve the placebo effect .
It is a pretty good bet that exhaustive paper work and hospital green paint is not it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The placebo effect is not at all just about pain - in many cases, it is considerably more powerful than the drugs the Doctor prescribes.
A rational medical system would spend considerable resources on studying ways to improve the placebo effect.
It is a pretty good bet that exhaustive paper work and hospital green paint is not it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976896</id>
	<title>What I want to know</title>
	<author>TimeElf1</author>
	<datestamp>1256998560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>The researchers who made the discovery scanned the spinal cords of volunteers while applying painful heat to one arm.</i>
<br>
What I want to know is who in their right minds volunteers for this sort of thing? Or are they just all pre-med students and get "volunteered" by their professors?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The researchers who made the discovery scanned the spinal cords of volunteers while applying painful heat to one arm .
What I want to know is who in their right minds volunteers for this sort of thing ?
Or are they just all pre-med students and get " volunteered " by their professors ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The researchers who made the discovery scanned the spinal cords of volunteers while applying painful heat to one arm.
What I want to know is who in their right minds volunteers for this sort of thing?
Or are they just all pre-med students and get "volunteered" by their professors?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29979038</id>
	<title>Oh come on, guys</title>
	<author>Phroggy</author>
	<datestamp>1257007440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No active ingredient?  They did apply a cream.  If you've had painful heat applied to your arm, rubbing butter on it will make it feel better; lidocaine would feel MORE better*, but this isn't a sugar pill.</p><p>* "Me fail English?  That's unpossible!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No active ingredient ?
They did apply a cream .
If you 've had painful heat applied to your arm , rubbing butter on it will make it feel better ; lidocaine would feel MORE better * , but this is n't a sugar pill .
* " Me fail English ?
That 's unpossible !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No active ingredient?
They did apply a cream.
If you've had painful heat applied to your arm, rubbing butter on it will make it feel better; lidocaine would feel MORE better*, but this isn't a sugar pill.
* "Me fail English?
That's unpossible!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977394</id>
	<title>The Point?</title>
	<author>LKM</author>
	<datestamp>1257001140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't quite understand your point. We already know that acupuncture works. We also know why it works: it works 100\% through the placebo effect. This newly discovered mechanism may or may not apply to acupuncture, but it doesn't really matter; we already know that acupuncture has no specific activity for the condition that is being treated. This new discovery does not change this simple fact, and thus does not require us to re-analize acupuncture.</p><p>The results would be exactly the same as earlier tests.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't quite understand your point .
We already know that acupuncture works .
We also know why it works : it works 100 \ % through the placebo effect .
This newly discovered mechanism may or may not apply to acupuncture , but it does n't really matter ; we already know that acupuncture has no specific activity for the condition that is being treated .
This new discovery does not change this simple fact , and thus does not require us to re-analize acupuncture.The results would be exactly the same as earlier tests .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't quite understand your point.
We already know that acupuncture works.
We also know why it works: it works 100\% through the placebo effect.
This newly discovered mechanism may or may not apply to acupuncture, but it doesn't really matter; we already know that acupuncture has no specific activity for the condition that is being treated.
This new discovery does not change this simple fact, and thus does not require us to re-analize acupuncture.The results would be exactly the same as earlier tests.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977338</id>
	<title>Re:Acupuncture to be reanalysed</title>
	<author>VenomPhallus</author>
	<datestamp>1257000900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>By "old school" do you mean "real"?</p><p>There's plenty of studies into accupuncture. They show that the better the methodology, the worse accupuncture performs, and that in well done studies it performs as well as placebo. In fact, the last big study I read of it actually showed sham accupuncture marginally outperformed "real".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>By " old school " do you mean " real " ? There 's plenty of studies into accupuncture .
They show that the better the methodology , the worse accupuncture performs , and that in well done studies it performs as well as placebo .
In fact , the last big study I read of it actually showed sham accupuncture marginally outperformed " real " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By "old school" do you mean "real"?There's plenty of studies into accupuncture.
They show that the better the methodology, the worse accupuncture performs, and that in well done studies it performs as well as placebo.
In fact, the last big study I read of it actually showed sham accupuncture marginally outperformed "real".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976848</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29978942</id>
	<title>Re:this is not surprising</title>
	<author>adamchou</author>
	<datestamp>1257007140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>if you don't believe it exists, you're less likely to experience it</p></div><p>well, in that same sense, is it possible that the headache is only there because you believe it to be there? with all due respect, i don't know your medical background. just throwing out food for thought.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>if you do n't believe it exists , you 're less likely to experience itwell , in that same sense , is it possible that the headache is only there because you believe it to be there ?
with all due respect , i do n't know your medical background .
just throwing out food for thought .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if you don't believe it exists, you're less likely to experience itwell, in that same sense, is it possible that the headache is only there because you believe it to be there?
with all due respect, i don't know your medical background.
just throwing out food for thought.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976910</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29985468</id>
	<title>Re:this is not surprising</title>
	<author>Jay L</author>
	<datestamp>1256983380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>To an almost hilarious extent, pain is like gravity in cartoons: if you don't believe it exists, you're less likely to experience it.</p></div></blockquote><p>This is awesome. I wish you'd de-anonymize so I could quote you.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>To an almost hilarious extent , pain is like gravity in cartoons : if you do n't believe it exists , you 're less likely to experience it.This is awesome .
I wish you 'd de-anonymize so I could quote you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To an almost hilarious extent, pain is like gravity in cartoons: if you don't believe it exists, you're less likely to experience it.This is awesome.
I wish you'd de-anonymize so I could quote you.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29976910</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_11_04_0239214.29977828</id>
	<title>How placebo works</title>
	<author>minstrelmike</author>
	<datestamp>1257003180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The placebo effect works because pain is not an aspect of reality; it is created by the body for the brain. Pain is useful and helps with survival, but it is generated by the nerves, not by the knife that cuts the skin. If the biological body is what creates pain, then in some instances, the body can not make it also.<br> <br>
Reason the placebo effect doesn't work for everyone is probably similar to whatever the reason is that the same drug doesn't work with the same effectiveness on each and every individual.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The placebo effect works because pain is not an aspect of reality ; it is created by the body for the brain .
Pain is useful and helps with survival , but it is generated by the nerves , not by the knife that cuts the skin .
If the biological body is what creates pain , then in some instances , the body can not make it also .
Reason the placebo effect does n't work for everyone is probably similar to whatever the reason is that the same drug does n't work with the same effectiveness on each and every individual .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The placebo effect works because pain is not an aspect of reality; it is created by the body for the brain.
Pain is useful and helps with survival, but it is generated by the nerves, not by the knife that cuts the skin.
If the biological body is what creates pain, then in some instances, the body can not make it also.
Reason the placebo effect doesn't work for everyone is probably similar to whatever the reason is that the same drug doesn't work with the same effectiveness on each and every individual.</sentencetext>
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