<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_29_038210</id>
	<title>Xerox Claims Printable Electronics Breakthrough</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1256806560000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>adeelarshad82 writes <i>"Xerox announced a new silver ink that <a href="http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2354848,00.asp">it's calling a breakthrough in printable electronics</a>, a leading-edge concept that's generated a lot of discussion but few actual products to date. Why? Precisely because of the issues that Xerox claims to have addressed. In concept, printable electronics is just what it sounds like: using a printer, basically an inkjet, to print electronic circuits. If this can be done reliably, electronic devices can be printed for far less than current methods cost. One can also print the devices on a variety of new materials. The possibilities range from printing on flexible plastic, to paper and cardboard, to fabric."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>adeelarshad82 writes " Xerox announced a new silver ink that it 's calling a breakthrough in printable electronics , a leading-edge concept that 's generated a lot of discussion but few actual products to date .
Why ? Precisely because of the issues that Xerox claims to have addressed .
In concept , printable electronics is just what it sounds like : using a printer , basically an inkjet , to print electronic circuits .
If this can be done reliably , electronic devices can be printed for far less than current methods cost .
One can also print the devices on a variety of new materials .
The possibilities range from printing on flexible plastic , to paper and cardboard , to fabric .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>adeelarshad82 writes "Xerox announced a new silver ink that it's calling a breakthrough in printable electronics, a leading-edge concept that's generated a lot of discussion but few actual products to date.
Why? Precisely because of the issues that Xerox claims to have addressed.
In concept, printable electronics is just what it sounds like: using a printer, basically an inkjet, to print electronic circuits.
If this can be done reliably, electronic devices can be printed for far less than current methods cost.
One can also print the devices on a variety of new materials.
The possibilities range from printing on flexible plastic, to paper and cardboard, to fabric.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29911583</id>
	<title>Re:Paper + Electricity = Fire</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256835840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Einstein came up with the theory of relativity. This doesn't imply that he's not an idiot.</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-EgbhdcSKc" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-EgbhdcSKc</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Einstein came up with the theory of relativity .
This does n't imply that he 's not an idiot.http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = d-EgbhdcSKc [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Einstein came up with the theory of relativity.
This doesn't imply that he's not an idiot.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-EgbhdcSKc [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908301</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908355</id>
	<title>Re:Digital Signatures and e-Commerce</title>
	<author>MrMista\_B</author>
	<datestamp>1256818680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You forget that the digital version would probably be easier to fake.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You forget that the digital version would probably be easier to fake .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You forget that the digital version would probably be easier to fake.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907853</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907815</id>
	<title>Interesting</title>
	<author>Paradyme</author>
	<datestamp>1256810220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>So, how long till people start downloading designs to print them out at home?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , how long till people start downloading designs to print them out at home ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, how long till people start downloading designs to print them out at home?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908949</id>
	<title>Re:The death of photography makes it possible</title>
	<author>noidentity</author>
	<datestamp>1256824800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Until the end of the 20th century, a major market for silver was photography. The digital camera and the inkjet printer have slowly destroyed that market and replaced it with digital imaging.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>Yeah, thankfully we don't have to use silver ink in our inkjet printers. That would make the ink refills really expensive. Oh, wait...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Until the end of the 20th century , a major market for silver was photography .
The digital camera and the inkjet printer have slowly destroyed that market and replaced it with digital imaging .
Yeah , thankfully we do n't have to use silver ink in our inkjet printers .
That would make the ink refills really expensive .
Oh , wait.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Until the end of the 20th century, a major market for silver was photography.
The digital camera and the inkjet printer have slowly destroyed that market and replaced it with digital imaging.
Yeah, thankfully we don't have to use silver ink in our inkjet printers.
That would make the ink refills really expensive.
Oh, wait...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907865</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29910235</id>
	<title>If they can print circuits on fabric...</title>
	<author>Interoperable</author>
	<datestamp>1256830920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>ThinkGeek will have a field day.</htmltext>
<tokenext>ThinkGeek will have a field day .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ThinkGeek will have a field day.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908121</id>
	<title>Components?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256815140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Being able to print the circuit is all well and good, but presumably it's literally just the underlying circuit and components still need to be attached? I'm guessing you can't just print a resistor, a transistor, an IC chip or something?</p><p>If I'm correct in this assumption, presumably this technology doesn't really open any new doors in terms of what can be created, only makes the process for testing and eventually producing circuit designs cheaper and possibly quicker?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Being able to print the circuit is all well and good , but presumably it 's literally just the underlying circuit and components still need to be attached ?
I 'm guessing you ca n't just print a resistor , a transistor , an IC chip or something ? If I 'm correct in this assumption , presumably this technology does n't really open any new doors in terms of what can be created , only makes the process for testing and eventually producing circuit designs cheaper and possibly quicker ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being able to print the circuit is all well and good, but presumably it's literally just the underlying circuit and components still need to be attached?
I'm guessing you can't just print a resistor, a transistor, an IC chip or something?If I'm correct in this assumption, presumably this technology doesn't really open any new doors in terms of what can be created, only makes the process for testing and eventually producing circuit designs cheaper and possibly quicker?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908383</id>
	<title>Re:Interesting</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256819040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>THAT is exactly the point, IMO.  We're at the threshold of not only being able do download pirated software, but ALSO being able to download the hardware to run it on.</htmltext>
<tokenext>THAT is exactly the point , IMO .
We 're at the threshold of not only being able do download pirated software , but ALSO being able to download the hardware to run it on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>THAT is exactly the point, IMO.
We're at the threshold of not only being able do download pirated software, but ALSO being able to download the hardware to run it on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907815</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908849</id>
	<title>Re:Interesting</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256824080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm guessing it will be a while; most new tech is pretty expensive. The original IBM PC was four or five thousand dollars, laser printers likewise were very high priced. I doubt these things will be affordable to normal people at first. It sounds more complex than a simple inkjet -- it has to melt silver, and somehow does it so you can print melted silver on plastic without melting the plastic. And previous printers needed a clean room to do it, this new tech doesn't.</p><p>But I could be wrong. TFA says the main use will be printing RFID tags, and that it will bring the price of RFID tags down from a dollar each to a penny each.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm guessing it will be a while ; most new tech is pretty expensive .
The original IBM PC was four or five thousand dollars , laser printers likewise were very high priced .
I doubt these things will be affordable to normal people at first .
It sounds more complex than a simple inkjet -- it has to melt silver , and somehow does it so you can print melted silver on plastic without melting the plastic .
And previous printers needed a clean room to do it , this new tech does n't.But I could be wrong .
TFA says the main use will be printing RFID tags , and that it will bring the price of RFID tags down from a dollar each to a penny each .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm guessing it will be a while; most new tech is pretty expensive.
The original IBM PC was four or five thousand dollars, laser printers likewise were very high priced.
I doubt these things will be affordable to normal people at first.
It sounds more complex than a simple inkjet -- it has to melt silver, and somehow does it so you can print melted silver on plastic without melting the plastic.
And previous printers needed a clean room to do it, this new tech doesn't.But I could be wrong.
TFA says the main use will be printing RFID tags, and that it will bring the price of RFID tags down from a dollar each to a penny each.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907815</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908575</id>
	<title>PR summary, give me some eyewash</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256821320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Xerox announced a new silver ink that it's calling a breakthrough in printable electronics, a leading-edge concept that's generated a lot of discussion but few actual products to date.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>So it's a real leading-edge breakthrough concept for the space age, eh?</p><blockquote><div><p>Why?</p></div>
</blockquote><p>Oh gosh, don't keep me waiting for the answer!</p><blockquote><div><p>Precisely because of the issues that Xerox claims to have addressed.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>Are you sure it's precise? And what are these issues?</p><blockquote><div><p>In concept, printable electronics is just what it sounds like:</p></div>
</blockquote><p>Thanks for that intro. I was really scratching my head as to what it meant, since "printable electronics" just doesn't bring to mind anything clear.</p><blockquote><div><p>If this can be done reliably, electronic devices can be printed for far less than current methods cost.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>And if we can develop a cheaper alternative to oil, we'll be able to have a cheaper alternative to oil. Oh, right, there's the question of how. How will these printable electronics be done reliably? And I'm sure that's the problem that everyone's trying to solve.</p><blockquote><div><p>The possibilities range from printing on flexible plastic, to paper and cardboard, to fabric.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>So in summary, this will impact everything from watch making to watch repair? OK sorry, had to end this critique on a light note.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Xerox announced a new silver ink that it 's calling a breakthrough in printable electronics , a leading-edge concept that 's generated a lot of discussion but few actual products to date .
So it 's a real leading-edge breakthrough concept for the space age , eh ? Why ?
Oh gosh , do n't keep me waiting for the answer ! Precisely because of the issues that Xerox claims to have addressed .
Are you sure it 's precise ?
And what are these issues ? In concept , printable electronics is just what it sounds like : Thanks for that intro .
I was really scratching my head as to what it meant , since " printable electronics " just does n't bring to mind anything clear.If this can be done reliably , electronic devices can be printed for far less than current methods cost .
And if we can develop a cheaper alternative to oil , we 'll be able to have a cheaper alternative to oil .
Oh , right , there 's the question of how .
How will these printable electronics be done reliably ?
And I 'm sure that 's the problem that everyone 's trying to solve.The possibilities range from printing on flexible plastic , to paper and cardboard , to fabric .
So in summary , this will impact everything from watch making to watch repair ?
OK sorry , had to end this critique on a light note .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Xerox announced a new silver ink that it's calling a breakthrough in printable electronics, a leading-edge concept that's generated a lot of discussion but few actual products to date.
So it's a real leading-edge breakthrough concept for the space age, eh?Why?
Oh gosh, don't keep me waiting for the answer!Precisely because of the issues that Xerox claims to have addressed.
Are you sure it's precise?
And what are these issues?In concept, printable electronics is just what it sounds like:
Thanks for that intro.
I was really scratching my head as to what it meant, since "printable electronics" just doesn't bring to mind anything clear.If this can be done reliably, electronic devices can be printed for far less than current methods cost.
And if we can develop a cheaper alternative to oil, we'll be able to have a cheaper alternative to oil.
Oh, right, there's the question of how.
How will these printable electronics be done reliably?
And I'm sure that's the problem that everyone's trying to solve.The possibilities range from printing on flexible plastic, to paper and cardboard, to fabric.
So in summary, this will impact everything from watch making to watch repair?
OK sorry, had to end this critique on a light note.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29914719</id>
	<title>Re:The death of photography makes it possible</title>
	<author>treeves</author>
	<datestamp>1256847720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your "i.e." is incorrect. Written does not mean "on paper".
It could be on "stone" (silicon, etc.) e.g. lithography.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your " i.e .
" is incorrect .
Written does not mean " on paper " .
It could be on " stone " ( silicon , etc .
) e.g .
lithography .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your "i.e.
" is incorrect.
Written does not mean "on paper".
It could be on "stone" (silicon, etc.
) e.g.
lithography.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908219</id>
	<title>Re:Interesting</title>
	<author>Fotograf</author>
	<datestamp>1256816820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>what it would change from PCB on demand services where i can order anything for few euros?</htmltext>
<tokenext>what it would change from PCB on demand services where i can order anything for few euros ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what it would change from PCB on demand services where i can order anything for few euros?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907815</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908223</id>
	<title>Re:Components?</title>
	<author>Genda</author>
	<datestamp>1256816820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, there are long term research projects going on into other printable materials that can produce resistors, capacitors, and FET transistors that would be useful in building complete digital devices. You're never going to get the kind of densities available in silicon, however, you can stack many layers of plastic film, and create a three dimensional device that would yield serious computing possibilities. You might even be able mix optical and electronic technologies in a large device of this type. You could build custom flexible logic devices home, business, or play. You could build intelligence into machines and products that you never considered candidates for intelligence before. It would be a transformative technology.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , there are long term research projects going on into other printable materials that can produce resistors , capacitors , and FET transistors that would be useful in building complete digital devices .
You 're never going to get the kind of densities available in silicon , however , you can stack many layers of plastic film , and create a three dimensional device that would yield serious computing possibilities .
You might even be able mix optical and electronic technologies in a large device of this type .
You could build custom flexible logic devices home , business , or play .
You could build intelligence into machines and products that you never considered candidates for intelligence before .
It would be a transformative technology .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, there are long term research projects going on into other printable materials that can produce resistors, capacitors, and FET transistors that would be useful in building complete digital devices.
You're never going to get the kind of densities available in silicon, however, you can stack many layers of plastic film, and create a three dimensional device that would yield serious computing possibilities.
You might even be able mix optical and electronic technologies in a large device of this type.
You could build custom flexible logic devices home, business, or play.
You could build intelligence into machines and products that you never considered candidates for intelligence before.
It would be a transformative technology.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29912355</id>
	<title>Re:Good for prototypes, good for tech</title>
	<author>pclminion</author>
	<datestamp>1256838480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know a guy who used to work at HP. He was an ink chemist, although not personally responsible for the prices you pay<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-) He's a diehard electronics hobbyist, and he's been printing his own boards this way for several years now. I've seen some of his boards, and they seem to be very durable. And this was with an inkjet printer he hacked himself, with home-made ink (he won't tell me what's in it)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know a guy who used to work at HP .
He was an ink chemist , although not personally responsible for the prices you pay ; - ) He 's a diehard electronics hobbyist , and he 's been printing his own boards this way for several years now .
I 've seen some of his boards , and they seem to be very durable .
And this was with an inkjet printer he hacked himself , with home-made ink ( he wo n't tell me what 's in it )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know a guy who used to work at HP.
He was an ink chemist, although not personally responsible for the prices you pay ;-) He's a diehard electronics hobbyist, and he's been printing his own boards this way for several years now.
I've seen some of his boards, and they seem to be very durable.
And this was with an inkjet printer he hacked himself, with home-made ink (he won't tell me what's in it)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908045</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29916539</id>
	<title>Re:Interesting</title>
	<author>easyTree</author>
	<datestamp>1256811240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>So, how long till people start downloading designs to print them out at home?</p></div></blockquote><p>Not much longer, hopefully. IIRC, the <a href="http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/WebHome" title="reprap.org" rel="nofollow">reprap project</a> [reprap.org] is working on this for reprap version two - which seems to be much closer to release than last time I looked...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , how long till people start downloading designs to print them out at home ? Not much longer , hopefully .
IIRC , the reprap project [ reprap.org ] is working on this for reprap version two - which seems to be much closer to release than last time I looked.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, how long till people start downloading designs to print them out at home?Not much longer, hopefully.
IIRC, the reprap project [reprap.org] is working on this for reprap version two - which seems to be much closer to release than last time I looked...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907815</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29909003</id>
	<title>Re:Wait for it</title>
	<author>TaoPhoenix</author>
	<datestamp>1256825220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mods, he's very on topic!</p><p>It's like an (semi) unloseable copy of your invention. Espionage aside, if your copy is certified dated properly, it would be a neat defense in lawsuit claims.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mods , he 's very on topic ! It 's like an ( semi ) unloseable copy of your invention .
Espionage aside , if your copy is certified dated properly , it would be a neat defense in lawsuit claims .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mods, he's very on topic!It's like an (semi) unloseable copy of your invention.
Espionage aside, if your copy is certified dated properly, it would be a neat defense in lawsuit claims.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907961</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29911569</id>
	<title>Re:The death of photography makes it possible</title>
	<author>LWATCDR</author>
	<datestamp>1256835780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Using a digital camera technical isn't the process of photography. It is the still the art of photography but not the process.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Using a digital camera technical is n't the process of photography .
It is the still the art of photography but not the process .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Using a digital camera technical isn't the process of photography.
It is the still the art of photography but not the process.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29920643</id>
	<title>Re:The death of photography makes it possible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256837820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>photography dead?... how about a silver bullet for your head?  FILM FOREVER!!!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>photography dead ? .. .
how about a silver bullet for your head ?
FILM FOREVER ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>photography dead?...
how about a silver bullet for your head?
FILM FOREVER!!
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29912085</id>
	<title>Re:Components?</title>
	<author>MattskEE</author>
	<datestamp>1256837640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While I am all for the next paradigm, and even support efforts to work printable and 3D electronics, I have serious doubts that it would every be capable of surpassing planar silicon chips for sheer power and scalability in digital electronics.</p><p>The density is going to be incredibly hard to scale, even more so if people will be printing these on home fab systems.  It's just not easy to print really small things with something resembling an ink-jet device.  Whereas with silicon chips they have to worry about the wavelength of the UVlight used in photoresist exposure, it's a very different scale.</p><p>3D chips have also been worked on for a long time... the big drawback is heat extraction.  You can include thermal vias and the like, but then your density decreases even more, and that's just within the device, you still need to extract it to the outside environment.  Printable electronics are also going to suffer from speed drawbacks as the resistivity of interconnects and contacts will be greater, process control will be worse so you cannot run at as large a fraction of maximum spec.  It also creates yet more heat (I^2R).  You can already mix optical and electronics devices in a variety of material systems.  Putting them in printable systems will be problematic as I'm not aware of good printable optical waveguide processes.  I'm not sure if you mean "flexible" as "can be bent", but if you do then keep in mind that making something flexible means a lot fewer layers if you want it to be reliable, mitigating advantages of the 3D building.  Although flexible circuits meant to be bent once and installed conformally to a rigid object can work with somewhat more layers if appropriate design rules are followed, but there are always limits.</p><p>I think the main advantage of these lays in areas besides competing with large-scale silicon digital circuits.  I think that it could be well suited for creating for simple circuits that don't do much, but need to be cheap and small.  Heck, integrated resistors and capacitors are already used by various circuit board fabricators.  It's still rather expensive, but it has promise for decreasing the size of many devices and eventually becoming cheaper to manufacture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While I am all for the next paradigm , and even support efforts to work printable and 3D electronics , I have serious doubts that it would every be capable of surpassing planar silicon chips for sheer power and scalability in digital electronics.The density is going to be incredibly hard to scale , even more so if people will be printing these on home fab systems .
It 's just not easy to print really small things with something resembling an ink-jet device .
Whereas with silicon chips they have to worry about the wavelength of the UVlight used in photoresist exposure , it 's a very different scale.3D chips have also been worked on for a long time... the big drawback is heat extraction .
You can include thermal vias and the like , but then your density decreases even more , and that 's just within the device , you still need to extract it to the outside environment .
Printable electronics are also going to suffer from speed drawbacks as the resistivity of interconnects and contacts will be greater , process control will be worse so you can not run at as large a fraction of maximum spec .
It also creates yet more heat ( I ^ 2R ) .
You can already mix optical and electronics devices in a variety of material systems .
Putting them in printable systems will be problematic as I 'm not aware of good printable optical waveguide processes .
I 'm not sure if you mean " flexible " as " can be bent " , but if you do then keep in mind that making something flexible means a lot fewer layers if you want it to be reliable , mitigating advantages of the 3D building .
Although flexible circuits meant to be bent once and installed conformally to a rigid object can work with somewhat more layers if appropriate design rules are followed , but there are always limits.I think the main advantage of these lays in areas besides competing with large-scale silicon digital circuits .
I think that it could be well suited for creating for simple circuits that do n't do much , but need to be cheap and small .
Heck , integrated resistors and capacitors are already used by various circuit board fabricators .
It 's still rather expensive , but it has promise for decreasing the size of many devices and eventually becoming cheaper to manufacture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While I am all for the next paradigm, and even support efforts to work printable and 3D electronics, I have serious doubts that it would every be capable of surpassing planar silicon chips for sheer power and scalability in digital electronics.The density is going to be incredibly hard to scale, even more so if people will be printing these on home fab systems.
It's just not easy to print really small things with something resembling an ink-jet device.
Whereas with silicon chips they have to worry about the wavelength of the UVlight used in photoresist exposure, it's a very different scale.3D chips have also been worked on for a long time... the big drawback is heat extraction.
You can include thermal vias and the like, but then your density decreases even more, and that's just within the device, you still need to extract it to the outside environment.
Printable electronics are also going to suffer from speed drawbacks as the resistivity of interconnects and contacts will be greater, process control will be worse so you cannot run at as large a fraction of maximum spec.
It also creates yet more heat (I^2R).
You can already mix optical and electronics devices in a variety of material systems.
Putting them in printable systems will be problematic as I'm not aware of good printable optical waveguide processes.
I'm not sure if you mean "flexible" as "can be bent", but if you do then keep in mind that making something flexible means a lot fewer layers if you want it to be reliable, mitigating advantages of the 3D building.
Although flexible circuits meant to be bent once and installed conformally to a rigid object can work with somewhat more layers if appropriate design rules are followed, but there are always limits.I think the main advantage of these lays in areas besides competing with large-scale silicon digital circuits.
I think that it could be well suited for creating for simple circuits that don't do much, but need to be cheap and small.
Heck, integrated resistors and capacitors are already used by various circuit board fabricators.
It's still rather expensive, but it has promise for decreasing the size of many devices and eventually becoming cheaper to manufacture.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908223</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29912483</id>
	<title>prior art exists.</title>
	<author>swschrad</author>
	<datestamp>1256838900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AT&amp;T Western Electric printed the cards for many items, including the computers for the Safeguard ABM system and their class-4 phone switch cards, in the 1970s.  sprayed silver ink.</p><p>no patent forrrrr YOU.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AT&amp;T Western Electric printed the cards for many items , including the computers for the Safeguard ABM system and their class-4 phone switch cards , in the 1970s .
sprayed silver ink.no patent forrrrr YOU .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AT&amp;T Western Electric printed the cards for many items, including the computers for the Safeguard ABM system and their class-4 phone switch cards, in the 1970s.
sprayed silver ink.no patent forrrrr YOU.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29912061</id>
	<title>Re:Wait for it</title>
	<author>Knackered</author>
	<datestamp>1256837580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So you can turn yourself up to 11?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So you can turn yourself up to 11 ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So you can turn yourself up to 11?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907961</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907865</id>
	<title>The death of photography makes it possible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256811240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Until the end of the 20th century, a major market for silver was photography. The digital camera and the inkjet printer have slowly destroyed that market and replaced it with digital imaging. Now there's a new use for the silver which, presumably, had digital imaging not come along would have been much more expensive. (Although color photography ends up more or less silver free and there was considerable recycling, there was still a steady consumption of silver, and as the photography market democratised, the amount of silver in use at a given time was steadily increasing.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Until the end of the 20th century , a major market for silver was photography .
The digital camera and the inkjet printer have slowly destroyed that market and replaced it with digital imaging .
Now there 's a new use for the silver which , presumably , had digital imaging not come along would have been much more expensive .
( Although color photography ends up more or less silver free and there was considerable recycling , there was still a steady consumption of silver , and as the photography market democratised , the amount of silver in use at a given time was steadily increasing .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Until the end of the 20th century, a major market for silver was photography.
The digital camera and the inkjet printer have slowly destroyed that market and replaced it with digital imaging.
Now there's a new use for the silver which, presumably, had digital imaging not come along would have been much more expensive.
(Although color photography ends up more or less silver free and there was considerable recycling, there was still a steady consumption of silver, and as the photography market democratised, the amount of silver in use at a given time was steadily increasing.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908083</id>
	<title>The actual Xerox link</title>
	<author>NewToNix</author>
	<datestamp>1256814480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>A couple of interesting links to (short) videos about the process there also.
<a href="http://www.xerox.com/go/xrx/template/inv\_rel\_newsroom.jsp?ed\_name=NR\_2009Oct27\_Xerox\_Scientists\_Develop\_Silver\_Ink&amp;app=Newsroom&amp;view=newsrelease&amp;format=article&amp;Xcntry=USA&amp;Xlang=en\_US" title="xerox.com">http://www.xerox.com/go/xrx/template/inv\_rel\_newsroom.jsp?ed\_name=NR\_2009Oct27\_Xerox\_Scientists\_Develop\_Silver\_Ink&amp;app=Newsroom&amp;view=newsrelease&amp;format=article&amp;Xcntry=USA&amp;Xlang=en\_US</a> [xerox.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>A couple of interesting links to ( short ) videos about the process there also .
http : //www.xerox.com/go/xrx/template/inv \ _rel \ _newsroom.jsp ? ed \ _name = NR \ _2009Oct27 \ _Xerox \ _Scientists \ _Develop \ _Silver \ _Ink&amp;app = Newsroom&amp;view = newsrelease&amp;format = article&amp;Xcntry = USA&amp;Xlang = en \ _US [ xerox.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A couple of interesting links to (short) videos about the process there also.
http://www.xerox.com/go/xrx/template/inv\_rel\_newsroom.jsp?ed\_name=NR\_2009Oct27\_Xerox\_Scientists\_Develop\_Silver\_Ink&amp;app=Newsroom&amp;view=newsrelease&amp;format=article&amp;Xcntry=USA&amp;Xlang=en\_US [xerox.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29911241</id>
	<title>Re:Oh I can't wait.</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1256834640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Electronics are going to be even more of a pain in the ass to service.<br></i><br>When integrated circuits were first invented, engineers scoffed. "How would you replace a part in one?" not realizing how cheap the "parts" would be. This is the same thing. TFA says, for example, that today an RFID chip costs a dollar, while this tech would reduce the cost to a penny.</p><p>You don't service them any more than you repair a burned out light bulb.</p><p><i>I can't see it being terribly reliable either.</i></p><p>If TVs were a dollar each I wouldn't care how unreliable they were. But TFA covers this too -- until this new tech you needed a clean room.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Electronics are going to be even more of a pain in the ass to service.When integrated circuits were first invented , engineers scoffed .
" How would you replace a part in one ?
" not realizing how cheap the " parts " would be .
This is the same thing .
TFA says , for example , that today an RFID chip costs a dollar , while this tech would reduce the cost to a penny.You do n't service them any more than you repair a burned out light bulb.I ca n't see it being terribly reliable either.If TVs were a dollar each I would n't care how unreliable they were .
But TFA covers this too -- until this new tech you needed a clean room .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Electronics are going to be even more of a pain in the ass to service.When integrated circuits were first invented, engineers scoffed.
"How would you replace a part in one?
" not realizing how cheap the "parts" would be.
This is the same thing.
TFA says, for example, that today an RFID chip costs a dollar, while this tech would reduce the cost to a penny.You don't service them any more than you repair a burned out light bulb.I can't see it being terribly reliable either.If TVs were a dollar each I wouldn't care how unreliable they were.
But TFA covers this too -- until this new tech you needed a clean room.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907913</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29911693</id>
	<title>Piracy enters new realms</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256836200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder if this means that I will eventually be able to download and print off the latest graphics cards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if this means that I will eventually be able to download and print off the latest graphics cards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if this means that I will eventually be able to download and print off the latest graphics cards.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908529</id>
	<title>Re:Components?</title>
	<author>Jarik C-Bol</author>
	<datestamp>1256820660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>so what you are saying is, the annoying musical animated fruit-loops box from minority report is mere decades away?</htmltext>
<tokenext>so what you are saying is , the annoying musical animated fruit-loops box from minority report is mere decades away ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so what you are saying is, the annoying musical animated fruit-loops box from minority report is mere decades away?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908197</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29912433</id>
	<title>Been done before</title>
	<author>gr8\_phk</author>
	<datestamp>1256838720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I recall seeing an article years ago about OLED displays. Someone actually made a functional prototype using an inkjet printer. They put the chemicals in the cartridge and printed an electronic display. My first thought was being able to print light-up signs. I've always wondered why the geek hobbyists haven't done this yet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I recall seeing an article years ago about OLED displays .
Someone actually made a functional prototype using an inkjet printer .
They put the chemicals in the cartridge and printed an electronic display .
My first thought was being able to print light-up signs .
I 've always wondered why the geek hobbyists have n't done this yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recall seeing an article years ago about OLED displays.
Someone actually made a functional prototype using an inkjet printer.
They put the chemicals in the cartridge and printed an electronic display.
My first thought was being able to print light-up signs.
I've always wondered why the geek hobbyists haven't done this yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908045</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908079</id>
	<title>Spamming clothes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256814420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From the article:</p><blockquote><div><p>which will allow wearable electronics -- a T-shirt with a display, say, replacing a printed slogan for marketing or for showing support for a political candidate.</p></div></blockquote><p>Great, just what I want: Having my clothes turned into a spamming device.<br>There are certainly countless examples of how wearable electronics could be put to good use, but the first thing they think of is advertising. Very telling, I'd say.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From the article : which will allow wearable electronics -- a T-shirt with a display , say , replacing a printed slogan for marketing or for showing support for a political candidate.Great , just what I want : Having my clothes turned into a spamming device.There are certainly countless examples of how wearable electronics could be put to good use , but the first thing they think of is advertising .
Very telling , I 'd say .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From the article:which will allow wearable electronics -- a T-shirt with a display, say, replacing a printed slogan for marketing or for showing support for a political candidate.Great, just what I want: Having my clothes turned into a spamming device.There are certainly countless examples of how wearable electronics could be put to good use, but the first thing they think of is advertising.
Very telling, I'd say.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908351</id>
	<title>Re:Components?</title>
	<author>cbhacking</author>
	<datestamp>1256818620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The ability to print semiconductors (diodes, LEDs, and transistors) does not necessarily translate to the ability to print resistors (semiconductors have a near-constant voltage drop regardless of current, very different from a resistor), capacitors (no way this thing has the resolution to print *that* much surface area, and you still need a dielectric for any decent capacitance), or inductors (resolution again, plus you won't get much unless you can coil the conductor). There will still be a need for surface-mounted components. The difference is that what previously required a very expensive one-off circuit board plus components now is easy thanks to cheap print-your-own-at-home circuit boards - and if they can integrate semiconductors into the board directly, so much the better.</p><p>The printer and ink won't come cheap, but compared to the cost of one-off PCBs... if it's good enough and cheap enough, this thing could revitalize the electronics industry by taking low-budget electronics design way beyond the realm of breadboards.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The ability to print semiconductors ( diodes , LEDs , and transistors ) does not necessarily translate to the ability to print resistors ( semiconductors have a near-constant voltage drop regardless of current , very different from a resistor ) , capacitors ( no way this thing has the resolution to print * that * much surface area , and you still need a dielectric for any decent capacitance ) , or inductors ( resolution again , plus you wo n't get much unless you can coil the conductor ) .
There will still be a need for surface-mounted components .
The difference is that what previously required a very expensive one-off circuit board plus components now is easy thanks to cheap print-your-own-at-home circuit boards - and if they can integrate semiconductors into the board directly , so much the better.The printer and ink wo n't come cheap , but compared to the cost of one-off PCBs... if it 's good enough and cheap enough , this thing could revitalize the electronics industry by taking low-budget electronics design way beyond the realm of breadboards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The ability to print semiconductors (diodes, LEDs, and transistors) does not necessarily translate to the ability to print resistors (semiconductors have a near-constant voltage drop regardless of current, very different from a resistor), capacitors (no way this thing has the resolution to print *that* much surface area, and you still need a dielectric for any decent capacitance), or inductors (resolution again, plus you won't get much unless you can coil the conductor).
There will still be a need for surface-mounted components.
The difference is that what previously required a very expensive one-off circuit board plus components now is easy thanks to cheap print-your-own-at-home circuit boards - and if they can integrate semiconductors into the board directly, so much the better.The printer and ink won't come cheap, but compared to the cost of one-off PCBs... if it's good enough and cheap enough, this thing could revitalize the electronics industry by taking low-budget electronics design way beyond the realm of breadboards.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908197</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29910801</id>
	<title>Re:The death of photography makes it possible</title>
	<author>BetterSense</author>
	<datestamp>1256832960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Watch this very cool old Kodak informational video (think "How it's Made" c.1950). They literally pull up train cars full of silver bars and unload them into the factory on conveyer belts.<br><br>httphttp://photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/00Sg0n://photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/00Sg0n<br><br>That market has diminished drastically. You are right that "photography as a whole" is doing fine if we are agreeing that both silver-based imaging and digital imaging are both "photography". There's a lot of wanking over the word, which is mostly based on lay people's failure to understand the fundamental differences between them, and practitioners of both getting irritated at same.<br><br>Although there is no doubt that optical/chemical photography has declined drastically in popularity, digital has not, in principle, affected it. It's just that more people choose to use digital now that the option exists. Wet process photography is by no means obsolete or dead, just less popular. If you want to do real live chemical photography, nothing really has changed, except there are better photographic materials available now than ever in history.  And nothing stops you from using a hybrid approach, shooting film and digitally printing, or capturing digitally and printing to silver paper. I don't find it worthwhile to ponder the meaning of "photography" so long as we agree what a "photograph" is, and digital images are not photographs.<br><br>Every now and then I hear some hipster say something like "photography is easier now that we have digital". That's like saying "horseback riding is so much easier now that we have cars".  What he really means is "instead of doing wet process photography I can now do digital imaging instead which is so much easier". But that's not 'making photography easier' because photography proper, that is, optical printing of persistent images directly onto surfaces, is still done about the same has it was 100 years ago, except as already mentioned, we are spoiled with extremely high performance films and papers. Lay people don't realize that digital was a whole new and different medium coming up, and instead, from their perspective, they think that digital imaging is an evolution of the photographic process, rendering optical/chemical "&lt;no qualification&gt; photography" obsolete, when in fact, it is untouched and marching along on its own still, and better than ever. People still ride  horses, and people still make &lt;no qualifier&gt; photographs, and the invention of cars and digital imaging don't really change the craft itself.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Watch this very cool old Kodak informational video ( think " How it 's Made " c.1950 ) .
They literally pull up train cars full of silver bars and unload them into the factory on conveyer belts.httphttp : //photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/00Sg0n : //photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/00Sg0nThat market has diminished drastically .
You are right that " photography as a whole " is doing fine if we are agreeing that both silver-based imaging and digital imaging are both " photography " .
There 's a lot of wanking over the word , which is mostly based on lay people 's failure to understand the fundamental differences between them , and practitioners of both getting irritated at same.Although there is no doubt that optical/chemical photography has declined drastically in popularity , digital has not , in principle , affected it .
It 's just that more people choose to use digital now that the option exists .
Wet process photography is by no means obsolete or dead , just less popular .
If you want to do real live chemical photography , nothing really has changed , except there are better photographic materials available now than ever in history .
And nothing stops you from using a hybrid approach , shooting film and digitally printing , or capturing digitally and printing to silver paper .
I do n't find it worthwhile to ponder the meaning of " photography " so long as we agree what a " photograph " is , and digital images are not photographs.Every now and then I hear some hipster say something like " photography is easier now that we have digital " .
That 's like saying " horseback riding is so much easier now that we have cars " .
What he really means is " instead of doing wet process photography I can now do digital imaging instead which is so much easier " .
But that 's not 'making photography easier ' because photography proper , that is , optical printing of persistent images directly onto surfaces , is still done about the same has it was 100 years ago , except as already mentioned , we are spoiled with extremely high performance films and papers .
Lay people do n't realize that digital was a whole new and different medium coming up , and instead , from their perspective , they think that digital imaging is an evolution of the photographic process , rendering optical/chemical " photography " obsolete , when in fact , it is untouched and marching along on its own still , and better than ever .
People still ride horses , and people still make photographs , and the invention of cars and digital imaging do n't really change the craft itself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Watch this very cool old Kodak informational video (think "How it's Made" c.1950).
They literally pull up train cars full of silver bars and unload them into the factory on conveyer belts.httphttp://photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/00Sg0n://photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/00Sg0nThat market has diminished drastically.
You are right that "photography as a whole" is doing fine if we are agreeing that both silver-based imaging and digital imaging are both "photography".
There's a lot of wanking over the word, which is mostly based on lay people's failure to understand the fundamental differences between them, and practitioners of both getting irritated at same.Although there is no doubt that optical/chemical photography has declined drastically in popularity, digital has not, in principle, affected it.
It's just that more people choose to use digital now that the option exists.
Wet process photography is by no means obsolete or dead, just less popular.
If you want to do real live chemical photography, nothing really has changed, except there are better photographic materials available now than ever in history.
And nothing stops you from using a hybrid approach, shooting film and digitally printing, or capturing digitally and printing to silver paper.
I don't find it worthwhile to ponder the meaning of "photography" so long as we agree what a "photograph" is, and digital images are not photographs.Every now and then I hear some hipster say something like "photography is easier now that we have digital".
That's like saying "horseback riding is so much easier now that we have cars".
What he really means is "instead of doing wet process photography I can now do digital imaging instead which is so much easier".
But that's not 'making photography easier' because photography proper, that is, optical printing of persistent images directly onto surfaces, is still done about the same has it was 100 years ago, except as already mentioned, we are spoiled with extremely high performance films and papers.
Lay people don't realize that digital was a whole new and different medium coming up, and instead, from their perspective, they think that digital imaging is an evolution of the photographic process, rendering optical/chemical " photography" obsolete, when in fact, it is untouched and marching along on its own still, and better than ever.
People still ride  horses, and people still make  photographs, and the invention of cars and digital imaging don't really change the craft itself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908001</id>
	<title>Re:Interesting</title>
	<author>lightinthedark</author>
	<datestamp>1256813040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not very once the ink's affordable. And why shouldn't we? It'll make "Learn electronics" books so much easier to publish, and maybe lower the barriers to a whole new generation of hardware hackers. Woo freedom<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not very once the ink 's affordable .
And why should n't we ?
It 'll make " Learn electronics " books so much easier to publish , and maybe lower the barriers to a whole new generation of hardware hackers .
Woo freedom : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not very once the ink's affordable.
And why shouldn't we?
It'll make "Learn electronics" books so much easier to publish, and maybe lower the barriers to a whole new generation of hardware hackers.
Woo freedom :-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907815</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908055</id>
	<title>But there \_are\_ already printed circuit !!</title>
	<author>Taco Cowboy</author>
	<datestamp>1256813880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>.... or am I missing something??</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.... or am I missing something ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.... or am I missing something?
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907815</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907919</id>
	<title>Not too much hype in summary</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256811960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I saw the sentence starting "The possibilities..."  I mentally filled it in with "are endless".</p><p>I was surprised (and a little gratified) to see the summary actually enumerating some of the possibilities instead of hyping it as is normally done.  That's good!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I saw the sentence starting " The possibilities... " I mentally filled it in with " are endless " .I was surprised ( and a little gratified ) to see the summary actually enumerating some of the possibilities instead of hyping it as is normally done .
That 's good !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I saw the sentence starting "The possibilities..."  I mentally filled it in with "are endless".I was surprised (and a little gratified) to see the summary actually enumerating some of the possibilities instead of hyping it as is normally done.
That's good!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29909753</id>
	<title>Re:But there \_are\_ already printed circuit !!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256828880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>.... or am I missing something??</p></div><p>You are probably missing the fact that manufacturing process for copper clad PCBs is very wasteful: in step one, huge laminate board is covered with continuous pure copper layer, then sold in large quantities (areas) to PCB producers. The latter then clean the copper surface from any impurities and place the artwork upon it buy any of the number of processes. Then, parts of copper layer that was left unprotected by features of the artwork is chemically etched away, basically, it is wasted, after all the trouble to put it upon laminate base!</p><p>Even if etched copper is recycled from the solution later, it would be much much better energy-wise if it could had been placed only where needed at the start. I believe this invention addresses that particular problem.</p><p>On the down size, silver ink is probably much more expensive than copper. Also, I don't know how well would this "prints" endure soldering heat? Perhaps adding components is done by using lumps of fresh ink to glue component pins or SMD feet to pads?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>.... or am I missing something ?
? You are probably missing the fact that manufacturing process for copper clad PCBs is very wasteful : in step one , huge laminate board is covered with continuous pure copper layer , then sold in large quantities ( areas ) to PCB producers .
The latter then clean the copper surface from any impurities and place the artwork upon it buy any of the number of processes .
Then , parts of copper layer that was left unprotected by features of the artwork is chemically etched away , basically , it is wasted , after all the trouble to put it upon laminate base ! Even if etched copper is recycled from the solution later , it would be much much better energy-wise if it could had been placed only where needed at the start .
I believe this invention addresses that particular problem.On the down size , silver ink is probably much more expensive than copper .
Also , I do n't know how well would this " prints " endure soldering heat ?
Perhaps adding components is done by using lumps of fresh ink to glue component pins or SMD feet to pads ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.... or am I missing something?
?You are probably missing the fact that manufacturing process for copper clad PCBs is very wasteful: in step one, huge laminate board is covered with continuous pure copper layer, then sold in large quantities (areas) to PCB producers.
The latter then clean the copper surface from any impurities and place the artwork upon it buy any of the number of processes.
Then, parts of copper layer that was left unprotected by features of the artwork is chemically etched away, basically, it is wasted, after all the trouble to put it upon laminate base!Even if etched copper is recycled from the solution later, it would be much much better energy-wise if it could had been placed only where needed at the start.
I believe this invention addresses that particular problem.On the down size, silver ink is probably much more expensive than copper.
Also, I don't know how well would this "prints" endure soldering heat?
Perhaps adding components is done by using lumps of fresh ink to glue component pins or SMD feet to pads?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908055</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29909807</id>
	<title>Re:Spamming clothes</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256829180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh God! Pine &amp; Oats, here we come. (shudder).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh God !
Pine &amp; Oats , here we come .
( shudder ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh God!
Pine &amp; Oats, here we come.
(shudder).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908079</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29910919</id>
	<title>Re:Interesting</title>
	<author>Bat Country</author>
	<datestamp>1256833380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Speed and turnaround.  If this was cheaply available to a home user or at least enthusiastic hobbyist (less cheap, more involved) you could still roll out a prototype and test with a turnaround of a few dozen a day.  Further, you could continue reducing the design until you found the smallest space necessary without risking as much money.  By its nature, it's most likely quite a bit cheaper once broadly available than PCB services given the difference in the quantity and toxicity of materials.  No toxic waste disposal, no huge waste of copper, no supply chain for PCB stock, just some card stock or plastic and some magic xerox ink.</p><p>Also, these circuits are flexible.  What's the value of flexibility?  It increases the durability and portability of your finished product. The deal with printed circuits as well is not to make a PCB where you solder parts onto it.  The idea is to actually print the entire circuit onto the material and offload anything which requires soldered components onto the portion of the product which is not required to be flexible.  That being said, anything you can lay into silicon which doesn't require exotic materials or nanoscale electromechanical properties can be printed onto any slightly heat-tolerant substrate with this technology. This could include printing a transistor radio into cotton, printing RFID tags directly onto luggage tags (imagine if the airline couldn't misplace your luggage because the luggage cart itself knew what it was supposed to be carrying), a home hobbyist printing out addon chips for their retro hardware (<a href="http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/nes\_mod/nes\_mod\_en.php#stereo" title="raphnet.net">NES</a> [raphnet.net] <a href="http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&amp;t=32658" title="benheck.com">in mixed stereo</a> [benheck.com] anyone?), printing out a better antenna for your laptop's wifi, printing new control wires onto the back of an e-ink display (say, from Esquire)...</p><p>All of this is a way off of course, as they're still talking about printing a molten silver compound onto materials, which doesn't strike me as being the sort of task a home laser printer would be up for, not the least of which would be that it'd completely screw up the duplexer and probably the developer drum. Of course, Xerox developing this ink with a low melting point and reliable crystallization patterns (from TFA) may result in some other breakthroughs whereby this comes home a lot faster.  All they need is to find a low-resistance nonmagnetic alloy or conductive polymer which melts at laser printing temperatures and won't gunk up a developer unit. (which may be unobtainium.)  Either that or a working material which can be applied by inkjet printers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Speed and turnaround .
If this was cheaply available to a home user or at least enthusiastic hobbyist ( less cheap , more involved ) you could still roll out a prototype and test with a turnaround of a few dozen a day .
Further , you could continue reducing the design until you found the smallest space necessary without risking as much money .
By its nature , it 's most likely quite a bit cheaper once broadly available than PCB services given the difference in the quantity and toxicity of materials .
No toxic waste disposal , no huge waste of copper , no supply chain for PCB stock , just some card stock or plastic and some magic xerox ink.Also , these circuits are flexible .
What 's the value of flexibility ?
It increases the durability and portability of your finished product .
The deal with printed circuits as well is not to make a PCB where you solder parts onto it .
The idea is to actually print the entire circuit onto the material and offload anything which requires soldered components onto the portion of the product which is not required to be flexible .
That being said , anything you can lay into silicon which does n't require exotic materials or nanoscale electromechanical properties can be printed onto any slightly heat-tolerant substrate with this technology .
This could include printing a transistor radio into cotton , printing RFID tags directly onto luggage tags ( imagine if the airline could n't misplace your luggage because the luggage cart itself knew what it was supposed to be carrying ) , a home hobbyist printing out addon chips for their retro hardware ( NES [ raphnet.net ] in mixed stereo [ benheck.com ] anyone ?
) , printing out a better antenna for your laptop 's wifi , printing new control wires onto the back of an e-ink display ( say , from Esquire ) ...All of this is a way off of course , as they 're still talking about printing a molten silver compound onto materials , which does n't strike me as being the sort of task a home laser printer would be up for , not the least of which would be that it 'd completely screw up the duplexer and probably the developer drum .
Of course , Xerox developing this ink with a low melting point and reliable crystallization patterns ( from TFA ) may result in some other breakthroughs whereby this comes home a lot faster .
All they need is to find a low-resistance nonmagnetic alloy or conductive polymer which melts at laser printing temperatures and wo n't gunk up a developer unit .
( which may be unobtainium .
) Either that or a working material which can be applied by inkjet printers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Speed and turnaround.
If this was cheaply available to a home user or at least enthusiastic hobbyist (less cheap, more involved) you could still roll out a prototype and test with a turnaround of a few dozen a day.
Further, you could continue reducing the design until you found the smallest space necessary without risking as much money.
By its nature, it's most likely quite a bit cheaper once broadly available than PCB services given the difference in the quantity and toxicity of materials.
No toxic waste disposal, no huge waste of copper, no supply chain for PCB stock, just some card stock or plastic and some magic xerox ink.Also, these circuits are flexible.
What's the value of flexibility?
It increases the durability and portability of your finished product.
The deal with printed circuits as well is not to make a PCB where you solder parts onto it.
The idea is to actually print the entire circuit onto the material and offload anything which requires soldered components onto the portion of the product which is not required to be flexible.
That being said, anything you can lay into silicon which doesn't require exotic materials or nanoscale electromechanical properties can be printed onto any slightly heat-tolerant substrate with this technology.
This could include printing a transistor radio into cotton, printing RFID tags directly onto luggage tags (imagine if the airline couldn't misplace your luggage because the luggage cart itself knew what it was supposed to be carrying), a home hobbyist printing out addon chips for their retro hardware (NES [raphnet.net] in mixed stereo [benheck.com] anyone?
), printing out a better antenna for your laptop's wifi, printing new control wires onto the back of an e-ink display (say, from Esquire)...All of this is a way off of course, as they're still talking about printing a molten silver compound onto materials, which doesn't strike me as being the sort of task a home laser printer would be up for, not the least of which would be that it'd completely screw up the duplexer and probably the developer drum.
Of course, Xerox developing this ink with a low melting point and reliable crystallization patterns (from TFA) may result in some other breakthroughs whereby this comes home a lot faster.
All they need is to find a low-resistance nonmagnetic alloy or conductive polymer which melts at laser printing temperatures and won't gunk up a developer unit.
(which may be unobtainium.
)  Either that or a working material which can be applied by inkjet printers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908219</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29912731</id>
	<title>Uh-oh</title>
	<author>ClosedSource</author>
	<datestamp>1256839860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I feel a disturbance in the force<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... GPLv4.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I feel a disturbance in the force ... GPLv4 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I feel a disturbance in the force ... GPLv4.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908325</id>
	<title>Re:Oh I can't wait.</title>
	<author>Alioth</author>
	<datestamp>1256818200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not multilayer PCBs and SMD that makes electronics uneconomical to repair, it's the purchase price of a new article that does it. In the past, if your television failed, you got it repaired - because in 1979, a colour TV cost (in 2009 money) over &pound;1000. Having a technician charge you &pound;150 in today's money was worth it.</p><p>But when a digital camera costs &pound;150, it's not worth spending &pound;150 to get someone to fix it.</p><p>Surface mount components aren't all that difficult to rework with practise. Today, many electronics hobbyists work with SMD, personally I've made my own boards with 0.4mm pitch (that's 0.2mm between the pins) LQFPs, and 0603 chip capacitors/resistors etc (about 1/10th of the size of a grain of rice). Many hobbyists are working with leadless QFNs, and some masochists are using 0201 components (2/1000in by 1/1000th in). (For me 0603 is fine, it's small enough to be able to put where I need them, yet large enough I can assemble a board without a magnifying glass).</p><p>Printable PCBs would be the holy grail for homebrew PCBs. We've got close - some people have modified printers to print etch resist directly onto copper clad board, which you can then etch. The rest of us typcially use iron-on toner transfer (shiny paper through a laser printer, then ironed onto copper board with a clothes iron) or UV photo exposure methods.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not multilayer PCBs and SMD that makes electronics uneconomical to repair , it 's the purchase price of a new article that does it .
In the past , if your television failed , you got it repaired - because in 1979 , a colour TV cost ( in 2009 money ) over   1000 .
Having a technician charge you   150 in today 's money was worth it.But when a digital camera costs   150 , it 's not worth spending   150 to get someone to fix it.Surface mount components are n't all that difficult to rework with practise .
Today , many electronics hobbyists work with SMD , personally I 've made my own boards with 0.4mm pitch ( that 's 0.2mm between the pins ) LQFPs , and 0603 chip capacitors/resistors etc ( about 1/10th of the size of a grain of rice ) .
Many hobbyists are working with leadless QFNs , and some masochists are using 0201 components ( 2/1000in by 1/1000th in ) .
( For me 0603 is fine , it 's small enough to be able to put where I need them , yet large enough I can assemble a board without a magnifying glass ) .Printable PCBs would be the holy grail for homebrew PCBs .
We 've got close - some people have modified printers to print etch resist directly onto copper clad board , which you can then etch .
The rest of us typcially use iron-on toner transfer ( shiny paper through a laser printer , then ironed onto copper board with a clothes iron ) or UV photo exposure methods .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not multilayer PCBs and SMD that makes electronics uneconomical to repair, it's the purchase price of a new article that does it.
In the past, if your television failed, you got it repaired - because in 1979, a colour TV cost (in 2009 money) over £1000.
Having a technician charge you £150 in today's money was worth it.But when a digital camera costs £150, it's not worth spending £150 to get someone to fix it.Surface mount components aren't all that difficult to rework with practise.
Today, many electronics hobbyists work with SMD, personally I've made my own boards with 0.4mm pitch (that's 0.2mm between the pins) LQFPs, and 0603 chip capacitors/resistors etc (about 1/10th of the size of a grain of rice).
Many hobbyists are working with leadless QFNs, and some masochists are using 0201 components (2/1000in by 1/1000th in).
(For me 0603 is fine, it's small enough to be able to put where I need them, yet large enough I can assemble a board without a magnifying glass).Printable PCBs would be the holy grail for homebrew PCBs.
We've got close - some people have modified printers to print etch resist directly onto copper clad board, which you can then etch.
The rest of us typcially use iron-on toner transfer (shiny paper through a laser printer, then ironed onto copper board with a clothes iron) or UV photo exposure methods.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907985</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29912339</id>
	<title>As a gold and silver bug...</title>
	<author>paulpach</author>
	<datestamp>1256838360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Silver already has plenty of industrial uses, however they are not what drive the price of silver.
</p><p>
The reason most people invest in gold and silver are different: They are a kind of money that no government can print,they are costly to mine. Compare that to the pieces of paper that come out of the printing press in a central bank, and especially the central bank that we have that just doubled their balance sheet, and it is easy to see that the amount of gold and silver remains relatively fixed to the amount of dollars (and most other fiat currencies).
</p><p>
Historically, gold and silver have replaced every single fiat currency in history starting from the Romans 2000 years ago. Make no mistake, they will replace our current currency as well sooner or later.
</p><p>
It took the central bank raising interest rates to 20\% by Paul Volger back in 1980 and cause a deep but quick recession to make gold and silver go down. The prospect of 20\% interest was enough to entice a lot of people to get some dollars and gain interest rather than hold gold and silver. Also, the 20\% interest rates means the Central bank stopped the printing presses. Does anyone believe Bernanke and Obama have the balls to do that again?
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Silver already has plenty of industrial uses , however they are not what drive the price of silver .
The reason most people invest in gold and silver are different : They are a kind of money that no government can print,they are costly to mine .
Compare that to the pieces of paper that come out of the printing press in a central bank , and especially the central bank that we have that just doubled their balance sheet , and it is easy to see that the amount of gold and silver remains relatively fixed to the amount of dollars ( and most other fiat currencies ) .
Historically , gold and silver have replaced every single fiat currency in history starting from the Romans 2000 years ago .
Make no mistake , they will replace our current currency as well sooner or later .
It took the central bank raising interest rates to 20 \ % by Paul Volger back in 1980 and cause a deep but quick recession to make gold and silver go down .
The prospect of 20 \ % interest was enough to entice a lot of people to get some dollars and gain interest rather than hold gold and silver .
Also , the 20 \ % interest rates means the Central bank stopped the printing presses .
Does anyone believe Bernanke and Obama have the balls to do that again ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Silver already has plenty of industrial uses, however they are not what drive the price of silver.
The reason most people invest in gold and silver are different: They are a kind of money that no government can print,they are costly to mine.
Compare that to the pieces of paper that come out of the printing press in a central bank, and especially the central bank that we have that just doubled their balance sheet, and it is easy to see that the amount of gold and silver remains relatively fixed to the amount of dollars (and most other fiat currencies).
Historically, gold and silver have replaced every single fiat currency in history starting from the Romans 2000 years ago.
Make no mistake, they will replace our current currency as well sooner or later.
It took the central bank raising interest rates to 20\% by Paul Volger back in 1980 and cause a deep but quick recession to make gold and silver go down.
The prospect of 20\% interest was enough to entice a lot of people to get some dollars and gain interest rather than hold gold and silver.
Also, the 20\% interest rates means the Central bank stopped the printing presses.
Does anyone believe Bernanke and Obama have the balls to do that again?
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907865</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908243</id>
	<title>Re:Components?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256817060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually the idea of current printable electronics research is to print the components as well.  In other words the objective is to get a functional electronic device out of a relatively simple printer.  AFAIK there are prototype systems that can print resistors, diodes and capacitors, and there are even energy sources that can be included as a power supply in a printed circuit.  I don't think they are aiming for the kind of resolution that would allow large-scale integrated circuits like microprocessors as of yet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually the idea of current printable electronics research is to print the components as well .
In other words the objective is to get a functional electronic device out of a relatively simple printer .
AFAIK there are prototype systems that can print resistors , diodes and capacitors , and there are even energy sources that can be included as a power supply in a printed circuit .
I do n't think they are aiming for the kind of resolution that would allow large-scale integrated circuits like microprocessors as of yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually the idea of current printable electronics research is to print the components as well.
In other words the objective is to get a functional electronic device out of a relatively simple printer.
AFAIK there are prototype systems that can print resistors, diodes and capacitors, and there are even energy sources that can be included as a power supply in a printed circuit.
I don't think they are aiming for the kind of resolution that would allow large-scale integrated circuits like microprocessors as of yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908301</id>
	<title>Paper + Electricity = Fire</title>
	<author>petrus4</author>
	<datestamp>1256817840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm a long way from Einstein, but even I know that.</p><p>I admit, it does sound very cool; and maybe on plastic (or polymer) it might have some chance of working.  Paper, cardboard, or fabrics however are not a good idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm a long way from Einstein , but even I know that.I admit , it does sound very cool ; and maybe on plastic ( or polymer ) it might have some chance of working .
Paper , cardboard , or fabrics however are not a good idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm a long way from Einstein, but even I know that.I admit, it does sound very cool; and maybe on plastic (or polymer) it might have some chance of working.
Paper, cardboard, or fabrics however are not a good idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29912661</id>
	<title>It's Already Been Available for Desktop Inkjets...</title>
	<author>LuxuryYacht</author>
	<datestamp>1256839620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as water based ink and does not require sintering or secondary processing and works well on standard inkjet or copier paper:<br><a href="http://www.methodedevelopment.com/whatsnew.aspx?newsitem=29" title="methodedevelopment.com">http://www.methodedevelopment.com/whatsnew.aspx?newsitem=29</a> [methodedevelopment.com]<br><a href="http://www.methodedevelopment.com/whatsnew.aspx?newsitem=30" title="methodedevelopment.com">http://www.methodedevelopment.com/whatsnew.aspx?newsitem=30</a> [methodedevelopment.com]</p><p>Commercial inkjet systems for printing electronics on a wide range of materials has also been available for some time: <a href="http://www.onelabs.com/prntelec0000.htm" title="onelabs.com">http://www.onelabs.com/prntelec0000.htm</a> [onelabs.com]</p><p>Multilayer conductive pcb traces including passive and active components are already being inkjet printed. The current geometries however for components are in the few micron range. A couple of decades behind current semiconductor processing but far ahead of current pcb fabrication techniques.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as water based ink and does not require sintering or secondary processing and works well on standard inkjet or copier paper : http : //www.methodedevelopment.com/whatsnew.aspx ? newsitem = 29 [ methodedevelopment.com ] http : //www.methodedevelopment.com/whatsnew.aspx ? newsitem = 30 [ methodedevelopment.com ] Commercial inkjet systems for printing electronics on a wide range of materials has also been available for some time : http : //www.onelabs.com/prntelec0000.htm [ onelabs.com ] Multilayer conductive pcb traces including passive and active components are already being inkjet printed .
The current geometries however for components are in the few micron range .
A couple of decades behind current semiconductor processing but far ahead of current pcb fabrication techniques .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as water based ink and does not require sintering or secondary processing and works well on standard inkjet or copier paper:http://www.methodedevelopment.com/whatsnew.aspx?newsitem=29 [methodedevelopment.com]http://www.methodedevelopment.com/whatsnew.aspx?newsitem=30 [methodedevelopment.com]Commercial inkjet systems for printing electronics on a wide range of materials has also been available for some time: http://www.onelabs.com/prntelec0000.htm [onelabs.com]Multilayer conductive pcb traces including passive and active components are already being inkjet printed.
The current geometries however for components are in the few micron range.
A couple of decades behind current semiconductor processing but far ahead of current pcb fabrication techniques.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908485</id>
	<title>How ridiculous, prior art, etc..</title>
	<author>Ancient\_Hacker</author>
	<datestamp>1256820240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are dozens of patents,  going back to 1940, for printing conductors on a surface.</p><p>
&nbsp; IBM based their 360 line of computers on a set of circuit modules which had the conductors (probably silk-screen printed) onto a ceramic wafer.</p><p>So there is nothing remotely new about printing conductors.  Or resistors.</p><p>You can't print semiconductors-- transistors, diodes, FETs or LEDS-- they have to be very pure crystalline solids with definite junctions, so that's a big roadblock.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are dozens of patents , going back to 1940 , for printing conductors on a surface .
  IBM based their 360 line of computers on a set of circuit modules which had the conductors ( probably silk-screen printed ) onto a ceramic wafer.So there is nothing remotely new about printing conductors .
Or resistors.You ca n't print semiconductors-- transistors , diodes , FETs or LEDS-- they have to be very pure crystalline solids with definite junctions , so that 's a big roadblock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are dozens of patents,  going back to 1940, for printing conductors on a surface.
  IBM based their 360 line of computers on a set of circuit modules which had the conductors (probably silk-screen printed) onto a ceramic wafer.So there is nothing remotely new about printing conductors.
Or resistors.You can't print semiconductors-- transistors, diodes, FETs or LEDS-- they have to be very pure crystalline solids with definite junctions, so that's a big roadblock.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29911739</id>
	<title>Re:Paper + Electricity = Fire</title>
	<author>LWATCDR</author>
	<datestamp>1256836320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not really. you must heat paper to 451f to get it to ignite.  Back in the old days they even used cotton on house current wires for insulation it worked but wasn't as safe as what we have now.<br>If you are talking about high voltage, high power stuff then yea not the best idea. If you are talking about the power levels in most computers then it is fine.</p><p>If you can do it on say paper or fabric how about ceramic? That would be even safer than the PCB boards we use now as far as fire goes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not really .
you must heat paper to 451f to get it to ignite .
Back in the old days they even used cotton on house current wires for insulation it worked but was n't as safe as what we have now.If you are talking about high voltage , high power stuff then yea not the best idea .
If you are talking about the power levels in most computers then it is fine.If you can do it on say paper or fabric how about ceramic ?
That would be even safer than the PCB boards we use now as far as fire goes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not really.
you must heat paper to 451f to get it to ignite.
Back in the old days they even used cotton on house current wires for insulation it worked but wasn't as safe as what we have now.If you are talking about high voltage, high power stuff then yea not the best idea.
If you are talking about the power levels in most computers then it is fine.If you can do it on say paper or fabric how about ceramic?
That would be even safer than the PCB boards we use now as far as fire goes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908301</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29910963</id>
	<title>Re:Components?</title>
	<author>Theaetetus</author>
	<datestamp>1256833560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Being able to print the circuit is all well and good, but presumably it's literally just the underlying circuit and components still need to be attached? I'm guessing you can't just print a resistor, a transistor, an IC chip or something?</p></div><p>Actually, you can... ICs are a bit more difficult, but you can print a thin wiggly line (\_/\/\/\/\/\/\\_) for a resistor or a gap for an air dielectric capacitor (----| |----) or a spiral for an inductor.  Your only problem - particularly for the resistor - is heat, since to get a high resistance, you either need a lot of wiggles, or a very narrow conductor.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Being able to print the circuit is all well and good , but presumably it 's literally just the underlying circuit and components still need to be attached ?
I 'm guessing you ca n't just print a resistor , a transistor , an IC chip or something ? Actually , you can... ICs are a bit more difficult , but you can print a thin wiggly line ( \ _/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ \ _ ) for a resistor or a gap for an air dielectric capacitor ( ---- | | ---- ) or a spiral for an inductor .
Your only problem - particularly for the resistor - is heat , since to get a high resistance , you either need a lot of wiggles , or a very narrow conductor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Being able to print the circuit is all well and good, but presumably it's literally just the underlying circuit and components still need to be attached?
I'm guessing you can't just print a resistor, a transistor, an IC chip or something?Actually, you can... ICs are a bit more difficult, but you can print a thin wiggly line (\_/\/\/\/\/\/\\_) for a resistor or a gap for an air dielectric capacitor (----| |----) or a spiral for an inductor.
Your only problem - particularly for the resistor - is heat, since to get a high resistance, you either need a lot of wiggles, or a very narrow conductor.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908117</id>
	<title>Re:Oh I can't wait.</title>
	<author>cbope</author>
	<datestamp>1256815080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Any electronics device *can* be serviced or repaired. The issue is cost and difficulty of the repair itself. In many cases it is simply too difficult to replace a failed component or too costly. In your camera example, it could be a component buried deep inside the camera on a small PCB which is not easily accessible. It may take a technician an hour or more to disassemble the camera into a few hundred pieces to get access to the failed component. That is certainly a more expensive operation than replacement of the device.</p><p>As a result, many electronic devices made today are effectively disposable. The cost involved to fix them just isn't justified. As an EE, I do try to repair my own devices if they are out of warranty coverage, but sometimes the effort required is just not worth it. It's far easier and cheaper to replace in many cases.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Any electronics device * can * be serviced or repaired .
The issue is cost and difficulty of the repair itself .
In many cases it is simply too difficult to replace a failed component or too costly .
In your camera example , it could be a component buried deep inside the camera on a small PCB which is not easily accessible .
It may take a technician an hour or more to disassemble the camera into a few hundred pieces to get access to the failed component .
That is certainly a more expensive operation than replacement of the device.As a result , many electronic devices made today are effectively disposable .
The cost involved to fix them just is n't justified .
As an EE , I do try to repair my own devices if they are out of warranty coverage , but sometimes the effort required is just not worth it .
It 's far easier and cheaper to replace in many cases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any electronics device *can* be serviced or repaired.
The issue is cost and difficulty of the repair itself.
In many cases it is simply too difficult to replace a failed component or too costly.
In your camera example, it could be a component buried deep inside the camera on a small PCB which is not easily accessible.
It may take a technician an hour or more to disassemble the camera into a few hundred pieces to get access to the failed component.
That is certainly a more expensive operation than replacement of the device.As a result, many electronic devices made today are effectively disposable.
The cost involved to fix them just isn't justified.
As an EE, I do try to repair my own devices if they are out of warranty coverage, but sometimes the effort required is just not worth it.
It's far easier and cheaper to replace in many cases.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907985</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907985</id>
	<title>Re:Oh I can't wait.</title>
	<author>ztransform</author>
	<datestamp>1256812860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Electronics are going to be even more of a pain<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... to service.</p></div><p>I was under the assumption that with today's 7 layer PCBs and bewildering array of surface mount components (and not just the resisters, the ICs too) that the days of servicing electronics was long gone.

</p><p>My Canon G7 died slightly over a year after purchase in that it simply wouldn't power up any more. The cost of servicing exceeded the value of the camera.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Electronics are going to be even more of a pain ... to service.I was under the assumption that with today 's 7 layer PCBs and bewildering array of surface mount components ( and not just the resisters , the ICs too ) that the days of servicing electronics was long gone .
My Canon G7 died slightly over a year after purchase in that it simply would n't power up any more .
The cost of servicing exceeded the value of the camera .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Electronics are going to be even more of a pain ... to service.I was under the assumption that with today's 7 layer PCBs and bewildering array of surface mount components (and not just the resisters, the ICs too) that the days of servicing electronics was long gone.
My Canon G7 died slightly over a year after purchase in that it simply wouldn't power up any more.
The cost of servicing exceeded the value of the camera.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907913</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29909055</id>
	<title>Re:Paper + Electricity = Fire</title>
	<author>kimvette</author>
	<datestamp>1256825520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Open up some electronics sometime, or for that matter, dissect some batteries. What do they often use for insulation? Paper.</p><p>Heck, paper used to be used to insulate high voltage AC in appliances and homes.</p><p>It's not all that dangerous, especially for low-voltage use. For higher-current applications you probably want flame-retardant treatment on the paper to reduce the risk of combustion, but it really isn't a problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Open up some electronics sometime , or for that matter , dissect some batteries .
What do they often use for insulation ?
Paper.Heck , paper used to be used to insulate high voltage AC in appliances and homes.It 's not all that dangerous , especially for low-voltage use .
For higher-current applications you probably want flame-retardant treatment on the paper to reduce the risk of combustion , but it really is n't a problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Open up some electronics sometime, or for that matter, dissect some batteries.
What do they often use for insulation?
Paper.Heck, paper used to be used to insulate high voltage AC in appliances and homes.It's not all that dangerous, especially for low-voltage use.
For higher-current applications you probably want flame-retardant treatment on the paper to reduce the risk of combustion, but it really isn't a problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908301</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907961</id>
	<title>Wait for it</title>
	<author>Nerdfest</author>
	<datestamp>1256812560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can't wait to have a working circuit printed on as a tattoo, with the components inserted as piercings. I'm thinkin' 2 stage amp.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't wait to have a working circuit printed on as a tattoo , with the components inserted as piercings .
I 'm thinkin ' 2 stage amp .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't wait to have a working circuit printed on as a tattoo, with the components inserted as piercings.
I'm thinkin' 2 stage amp.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29921651</id>
	<title>Re:Wait for it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256897220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Two words:</p><p>Penis Thevenin.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Two words : Penis Thevenin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Two words:Penis Thevenin.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907961</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29919617</id>
	<title>Love it</title>
	<author>marc\_jager</author>
	<datestamp>1256827680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Brilliant!
I need a new phone, just print one!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Brilliant !
I need a new phone , just print one !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Brilliant!
I need a new phone, just print one!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908197</id>
	<title>Re:Components?</title>
	<author>willy\_me</author>
	<datestamp>1256816640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
No, I believe that they are talking about actually printing circuits.  I know they were talking about printing OLED displays - this would require printing LEDs.  An LED is a diode and if you can print a diode you can print a transistor.  Resistors, capacitors, and inductors would be easy compared to transistors.
</p><p>
The whole point of this process is for cheap, flexible, disposable electronics.  If you have to use chips, the cost would probably increase as soldering chips onto a piece of plastic has to be harder then a PCB.  Anyway, below is a quote from the article:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Integrated circuits are made up of three components - a semiconductor, a conductor and a dielectric element - and currently are manufactured in costly silicon chip fabricating factories. By creating a breakthrough silver ink to print the conductor, Xerox has developed all three of the materials necessary for printing plastic circuits.</p></div><p>So you can see that the goal is to replace the chips.  In reality, it will likely replace both chips and the board for low cost electronics.
</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>No , I believe that they are talking about actually printing circuits .
I know they were talking about printing OLED displays - this would require printing LEDs .
An LED is a diode and if you can print a diode you can print a transistor .
Resistors , capacitors , and inductors would be easy compared to transistors .
The whole point of this process is for cheap , flexible , disposable electronics .
If you have to use chips , the cost would probably increase as soldering chips onto a piece of plastic has to be harder then a PCB .
Anyway , below is a quote from the article : Integrated circuits are made up of three components - a semiconductor , a conductor and a dielectric element - and currently are manufactured in costly silicon chip fabricating factories .
By creating a breakthrough silver ink to print the conductor , Xerox has developed all three of the materials necessary for printing plastic circuits.So you can see that the goal is to replace the chips .
In reality , it will likely replace both chips and the board for low cost electronics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
No, I believe that they are talking about actually printing circuits.
I know they were talking about printing OLED displays - this would require printing LEDs.
An LED is a diode and if you can print a diode you can print a transistor.
Resistors, capacitors, and inductors would be easy compared to transistors.
The whole point of this process is for cheap, flexible, disposable electronics.
If you have to use chips, the cost would probably increase as soldering chips onto a piece of plastic has to be harder then a PCB.
Anyway, below is a quote from the article:Integrated circuits are made up of three components - a semiconductor, a conductor and a dielectric element - and currently are manufactured in costly silicon chip fabricating factories.
By creating a breakthrough silver ink to print the conductor, Xerox has developed all three of the materials necessary for printing plastic circuits.So you can see that the goal is to replace the chips.
In reality, it will likely replace both chips and the board for low cost electronics.

	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29909171</id>
	<title>Re:Wait for it</title>
	<author>GaryOlson</author>
	<datestamp>1256826060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, but when the only replacement part around that works is tatoo'd into your skin, you are going to miss your skin.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , but when the only replacement part around that works is tatoo 'd into your skin , you are going to miss your skin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, but when the only replacement part around that works is tatoo'd into your skin, you are going to miss your skin.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907961</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908359</id>
	<title>wearables ..</title>
	<author>rs232</author>
	<datestamp>1256818740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I see a use in <a href="http://bradleyrhodes.com/Papers/brief-history-of-wearable-computing.html" title="bradleyrhodes.com">wearables</a> [bradleyrhodes.com], devices built into your clothes<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..<br>
-------<br> <br>

Making (microsoft) ACPI not work with Linux<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. <br> <br>

"<i>Foxconn<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. have several different tables, a group for Windws XP and Vista, a group for 2000, a group for NT, Me, 95, 98, etc. that just errors out, and one for <a href="http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869249" title="ubuntuforums.org">LINUX</a> [ubuntuforums.org].<br> <br>

The one for Linux points to a <strong>badly written table</strong> that does not correspond to the board's ACPI implementation, causing weird kernel errors, strange system freezing, no suspend or hibernate, and other problems"<br> <br>

'You are incorrect in that the motherboard is not ACPI complaint. If it were not, then it would not have received Microsoft Certification for WHQL', Foxconn</i> <br> <br>

'<i>One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn't try and <a href="http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03020.pdf" title="slated.org">make the "ACPI" extensions somehow Windows specific</a> [slated.org] </i>', billg Jan 1999</htmltext>
<tokenext>I see a use in wearables [ bradleyrhodes.com ] , devices built into your clothes . . ------- Making ( microsoft ) ACPI not work with Linux . . " Foxconn .. have several different tables , a group for Windws XP and Vista , a group for 2000 , a group for NT , Me , 95 , 98 , etc .
that just errors out , and one for LINUX [ ubuntuforums.org ] .
The one for Linux points to a badly written table that does not correspond to the board 's ACPI implementation , causing weird kernel errors , strange system freezing , no suspend or hibernate , and other problems " 'You are incorrect in that the motherboard is not ACPI complaint .
If it were not , then it would not have received Microsoft Certification for WHQL ' , Foxconn 'One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we should n't try and make the " ACPI " extensions somehow Windows specific [ slated.org ] ' , billg Jan 1999</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see a use in wearables [bradleyrhodes.com], devices built into your clothes ..
------- 

Making (microsoft) ACPI not work with Linux ..  

"Foxconn .. have several different tables, a group for Windws XP and Vista, a group for 2000, a group for NT, Me, 95, 98, etc.
that just errors out, and one for LINUX [ubuntuforums.org].
The one for Linux points to a badly written table that does not correspond to the board's ACPI implementation, causing weird kernel errors, strange system freezing, no suspend or hibernate, and other problems" 

'You are incorrect in that the motherboard is not ACPI complaint.
If it were not, then it would not have received Microsoft Certification for WHQL', Foxconn  

'One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn't try and make the "ACPI" extensions somehow Windows specific [slated.org] ', billg Jan 1999</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908471</id>
	<title>Re:The death of photography makes it possible</title>
	<author>commodore64\_love</author>
	<datestamp>1256820120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;&gt;&gt;I think by photography, you mean photographic film</p><p>Well since you were nitpicking the original author's choice of words, then I will be nitpicky too.  A digital image is not really a photograph ("light written" i.e. on paper).  It still captures light, but it is not done on paper, but instead by a charge-coupled device (CCD).  A digital image is a photoelectronic, not a photographic, and thus the OP was correct when he called the photograph a dead or dying art, which frees silver for use in other applications.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; &gt; &gt; I think by photography , you mean photographic filmWell since you were nitpicking the original author 's choice of words , then I will be nitpicky too .
A digital image is not really a photograph ( " light written " i.e .
on paper ) .
It still captures light , but it is not done on paper , but instead by a charge-coupled device ( CCD ) .
A digital image is a photoelectronic , not a photographic , and thus the OP was correct when he called the photograph a dead or dying art , which frees silver for use in other applications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;&gt;&gt;I think by photography, you mean photographic filmWell since you were nitpicking the original author's choice of words, then I will be nitpicky too.
A digital image is not really a photograph ("light written" i.e.
on paper).
It still captures light, but it is not done on paper, but instead by a charge-coupled device (CCD).
A digital image is a photoelectronic, not a photographic, and thus the OP was correct when he called the photograph a dead or dying art, which frees silver for use in other applications.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29913399</id>
	<title>Re:Oh I can't wait.</title>
	<author>sbeckstead</author>
	<datestamp>1256842560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>RTFA
<br>
<i>I can't see it being terribly reliable either.</i>
<br>this is precisely one of the problems that this is designed to fix.  Printing circuits from a printer is not new this is a better more reliable process.</htmltext>
<tokenext>RTFA I ca n't see it being terribly reliable either .
this is precisely one of the problems that this is designed to fix .
Printing circuits from a printer is not new this is a better more reliable process .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RTFA

I can't see it being terribly reliable either.
this is precisely one of the problems that this is designed to fix.
Printing circuits from a printer is not new this is a better more reliable process.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907913</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908149</id>
	<title>Re:The death of photography makes it possible</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256815500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think by photography, you mean photographic film and traditional photographic paper printing. Photography itself is far from dead and in fact is probably much stronger than it ever was thanks to digital cameras. I would bet that the number of photos taken by the average person with a digital camera is 20-50x what is was during the film days, thanks to the fact that you do not pay for each frame as in the film days. I know that personally my number of shots per year has gone from a few hundreds to many thousands of frames per year. People today take more pictures than ever before.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think by photography , you mean photographic film and traditional photographic paper printing .
Photography itself is far from dead and in fact is probably much stronger than it ever was thanks to digital cameras .
I would bet that the number of photos taken by the average person with a digital camera is 20-50x what is was during the film days , thanks to the fact that you do not pay for each frame as in the film days .
I know that personally my number of shots per year has gone from a few hundreds to many thousands of frames per year .
People today take more pictures than ever before .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think by photography, you mean photographic film and traditional photographic paper printing.
Photography itself is far from dead and in fact is probably much stronger than it ever was thanks to digital cameras.
I would bet that the number of photos taken by the average person with a digital camera is 20-50x what is was during the film days, thanks to the fact that you do not pay for each frame as in the film days.
I know that personally my number of shots per year has gone from a few hundreds to many thousands of frames per year.
People today take more pictures than ever before.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907865</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907853</id>
	<title>Digital Signatures and e-Commerce</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256811060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think it would be great if we can attach an electronic version of a printed document so that we can verify its authenticity using digital signatures.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it would be great if we can attach an electronic version of a printed document so that we can verify its authenticity using digital signatures .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it would be great if we can attach an electronic version of a printed document so that we can verify its authenticity using digital signatures.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908601</id>
	<title>No problem..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256821620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All you need is a standard sheet with pin holes in standard grid configuration. You print out the circuit, and insert your components through the holes, them clip them in place underneath,( or solder if the substrate can handle the heat!). I envision something like the clip on the back of an earring to hold them in place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All you need is a standard sheet with pin holes in standard grid configuration .
You print out the circuit , and insert your components through the holes , them clip them in place underneath , ( or solder if the substrate can handle the heat ! ) .
I envision something like the clip on the back of an earring to hold them in place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All you need is a standard sheet with pin holes in standard grid configuration.
You print out the circuit, and insert your components through the holes, them clip them in place underneath,( or solder if the substrate can handle the heat!).
I envision something like the clip on the back of an earring to hold them in place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908515</id>
	<title>Re:Components?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256820480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In what way is this insightful?  Bloody obvious would be my tag.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In what way is this insightful ?
Bloody obvious would be my tag .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In what way is this insightful?
Bloody obvious would be my tag.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908541</id>
	<title>Cost</title>
	<author>meyekul</author>
	<datestamp>1256820840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How much is this magic conductive PCB ink and printer going to cost though?  If it is anything like the magnetic ink you need for printing checks, I think they just raised the entry bar a fair bit.  BTW you can already print your own PCBs, you just need a regular laser printer and some acid to etch out the pattern.  There are numerous guides on Google about how to do this on the cheap.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How much is this magic conductive PCB ink and printer going to cost though ?
If it is anything like the magnetic ink you need for printing checks , I think they just raised the entry bar a fair bit .
BTW you can already print your own PCBs , you just need a regular laser printer and some acid to etch out the pattern .
There are numerous guides on Google about how to do this on the cheap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much is this magic conductive PCB ink and printer going to cost though?
If it is anything like the magnetic ink you need for printing checks, I think they just raised the entry bar a fair bit.
BTW you can already print your own PCBs, you just need a regular laser printer and some acid to etch out the pattern.
There are numerous guides on Google about how to do this on the cheap.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908101</id>
	<title>Printable PASSIVE electronic devices</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256814780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You may be able to print barcodes and antenna's - but this will  not do ordinary electronics - like say a switching power inverter , or an ipod amplifier. You will not get the density of a PGA or memory. Maybe a bus pass or something - if you were lucky.</p><p>If you look at a disk drive head ribbon, you will see they have already been making very flexible circuits on a plastic ribbon. But don't fold it up, as heat dissipation and cross capacitance is still a problem. The density needed for Schotties will not come out of an inkjet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You may be able to print barcodes and antenna 's - but this will not do ordinary electronics - like say a switching power inverter , or an ipod amplifier .
You will not get the density of a PGA or memory .
Maybe a bus pass or something - if you were lucky.If you look at a disk drive head ribbon , you will see they have already been making very flexible circuits on a plastic ribbon .
But do n't fold it up , as heat dissipation and cross capacitance is still a problem .
The density needed for Schotties will not come out of an inkjet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You may be able to print barcodes and antenna's - but this will  not do ordinary electronics - like say a switching power inverter , or an ipod amplifier.
You will not get the density of a PGA or memory.
Maybe a bus pass or something - if you were lucky.If you look at a disk drive head ribbon, you will see they have already been making very flexible circuits on a plastic ribbon.
But don't fold it up, as heat dissipation and cross capacitance is still a problem.
The density needed for Schotties will not come out of an inkjet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29911737</id>
	<title>Paper?</title>
	<author>ILuvRamen</author>
	<datestamp>1256836260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm no engineer but I don't think the US would allow electronics to be sold where the circuitboard is made out of something flammable like paper.  That's an unbelievably stupid idea!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm no engineer but I do n't think the US would allow electronics to be sold where the circuitboard is made out of something flammable like paper .
That 's an unbelievably stupid idea !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm no engineer but I don't think the US would allow electronics to be sold where the circuitboard is made out of something flammable like paper.
That's an unbelievably stupid idea!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29909491</id>
	<title>Re:Oh I can't wait.</title>
	<author>Wargames</author>
	<datestamp>1256827680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I see non-functioning fully intact big screen tv's on the side of the road all the time and think to myself 'if only I was an EE...'.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I see non-functioning fully intact big screen tv 's on the side of the road all the time and think to myself 'if only I was an EE...' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see non-functioning fully intact big screen tv's on the side of the road all the time and think to myself 'if only I was an EE...'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908117</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29909603</id>
	<title>Re:Wait for it</title>
	<author>StripedCow</author>
	<datestamp>1256828280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can see it already:</p><p>"Hey, sorry people, the concert has been canceled, our power amplifier just died"</p><p>"But wait, I have an amplifier tattoo'd on my skin!"</p><p>*goes sitting in the back of the stage hooked up to the equipment, while other people are enjoying the concert*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can see it already : " Hey , sorry people , the concert has been canceled , our power amplifier just died " " But wait , I have an amplifier tattoo 'd on my skin !
" * goes sitting in the back of the stage hooked up to the equipment , while other people are enjoying the concert *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can see it already:"Hey, sorry people, the concert has been canceled, our power amplifier just died""But wait, I have an amplifier tattoo'd on my skin!
"*goes sitting in the back of the stage hooked up to the equipment, while other people are enjoying the concert*</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907961</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29923595</id>
	<title>Other ideas...</title>
	<author>ResidentSourcerer</author>
	<datestamp>1256916780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>chips with button holes so they can be sewn to the fabric<br>printed circuits.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>chips with button holes so they can be sewn to the fabricprinted circuits .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>chips with button holes so they can be sewn to the fabricprinted circuits.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907815</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908017</id>
	<title>massproduction</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256813280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Printing like a inktjet is not fast enough, we need rotogravure like speed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Printing like a inktjet is not fast enough , we need rotogravure like speed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Printing like a inktjet is not fast enough, we need rotogravure like speed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908045</id>
	<title>Good for prototypes, good for tech</title>
	<author>Gopal.V</author>
	<datestamp>1256813700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I'd love to prototype on something like this. But I doubt if the actual output off an inkjet would work beyond the first time I sneeze over it.
</p><p>
Honestly, in some sense I got into software rather than electronics because it was so hard to experiment with electronics freely. This could lower that barrier for hobbyists &amp; more importantly, kids. It needn't last through the weekend, but if it works and you can see it work, it's enough.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd love to prototype on something like this .
But I doubt if the actual output off an inkjet would work beyond the first time I sneeze over it .
Honestly , in some sense I got into software rather than electronics because it was so hard to experiment with electronics freely .
This could lower that barrier for hobbyists &amp; more importantly , kids .
It need n't last through the weekend , but if it works and you can see it work , it 's enough .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I'd love to prototype on something like this.
But I doubt if the actual output off an inkjet would work beyond the first time I sneeze over it.
Honestly, in some sense I got into software rather than electronics because it was so hard to experiment with electronics freely.
This could lower that barrier for hobbyists &amp; more importantly, kids.
It needn't last through the weekend, but if it works and you can see it work, it's enough.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908447</id>
	<title>Combined with 3D print tech</title>
	<author>CiderJack</author>
	<datestamp>1256819940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can see this making the 3D printer *truly* revolutionary...!

So what if next year you can create your own 64mb stick (block?) of ram that is 6x6 inches... in 5 years it will be 10 times as much ram, and one-half the size! Cheaper than buying silicon? Who knows...

Technology only improves - as long as the world's economy doesn't collapse.... <a href="http://www.collapsemovie.com/" title="collapsemovie.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.collapsemovie.com/</a> [collapsemovie.com]

Cheers!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can see this making the 3D printer * truly * revolutionary... !
So what if next year you can create your own 64mb stick ( block ?
) of ram that is 6x6 inches... in 5 years it will be 10 times as much ram , and one-half the size !
Cheaper than buying silicon ?
Who knows.. . Technology only improves - as long as the world 's economy does n't collapse.... http : //www.collapsemovie.com/ [ collapsemovie.com ] Cheers !
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can see this making the 3D printer *truly* revolutionary...!
So what if next year you can create your own 64mb stick (block?
) of ram that is 6x6 inches... in 5 years it will be 10 times as much ram, and one-half the size!
Cheaper than buying silicon?
Who knows...

Technology only improves - as long as the world's economy doesn't collapse.... http://www.collapsemovie.com/ [collapsemovie.com]

Cheers!
;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29920325</id>
	<title>Re:Paper + Electricity = Fire</title>
	<author>ChrisMaple</author>
	<datestamp>1256834040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Many early printed circuit board substrates weren't much more than an appropriate grade of paper with a good binder (especially outside the US. In the US, fiberglass-epoxy was economical enough for most purposes because heavy use by the military drove down prices.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Many early printed circuit board substrates were n't much more than an appropriate grade of paper with a good binder ( especially outside the US .
In the US , fiberglass-epoxy was economical enough for most purposes because heavy use by the military drove down prices .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Many early printed circuit board substrates weren't much more than an appropriate grade of paper with a good binder (especially outside the US.
In the US, fiberglass-epoxy was economical enough for most purposes because heavy use by the military drove down prices.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908301</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908563</id>
	<title>Re:Components: Resistor</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256821080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well your silver "lane" will have a certain resistance.  Printing a thin wiggely line will make a nice resistor.  Two lines just next to each other a capacitor.  Obviously you will be limited in the range of Ohms / Farads available, but some basic components should be possible.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well your silver " lane " will have a certain resistance .
Printing a thin wiggely line will make a nice resistor .
Two lines just next to each other a capacitor .
Obviously you will be limited in the range of Ohms / Farads available , but some basic components should be possible .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well your silver "lane" will have a certain resistance.
Printing a thin wiggely line will make a nice resistor.
Two lines just next to each other a capacitor.
Obviously you will be limited in the range of Ohms / Farads available, but some basic components should be possible.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29912983</id>
	<title>Re:The actual Xerox link</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256840700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They couldn't afford to upgrade those 15 inch CRTs?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They could n't afford to upgrade those 15 inch CRTs ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They couldn't afford to upgrade those 15 inch CRTs?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908083</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29909127</id>
	<title>Even more definite no</title>
	<author>Kupfernigk</author>
	<datestamp>1256825880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Einstein wouldn't have known that. He was a mathematical theoretical physicist, not an engineer. But you are wrong for another reason. Most low end PCBs are actually printed on a polymer-loaded paper substrate not that far from cardboard. Most modern paper burns very badly because a major component is clay - it's extremely hard to burn a magazine as they tend to have very highly loaded paper to allow full color printing. A modern mechanically polished paper substrate printed with a thin layer of UV cured polymer - which is basically what a full gloss brochure typically is made from - would be a "good enough" substrate for short life printable electronics.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Einstein would n't have known that .
He was a mathematical theoretical physicist , not an engineer .
But you are wrong for another reason .
Most low end PCBs are actually printed on a polymer-loaded paper substrate not that far from cardboard .
Most modern paper burns very badly because a major component is clay - it 's extremely hard to burn a magazine as they tend to have very highly loaded paper to allow full color printing .
A modern mechanically polished paper substrate printed with a thin layer of UV cured polymer - which is basically what a full gloss brochure typically is made from - would be a " good enough " substrate for short life printable electronics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Einstein wouldn't have known that.
He was a mathematical theoretical physicist, not an engineer.
But you are wrong for another reason.
Most low end PCBs are actually printed on a polymer-loaded paper substrate not that far from cardboard.
Most modern paper burns very badly because a major component is clay - it's extremely hard to burn a magazine as they tend to have very highly loaded paper to allow full color printing.
A modern mechanically polished paper substrate printed with a thin layer of UV cured polymer - which is basically what a full gloss brochure typically is made from - would be a "good enough" substrate for short life printable electronics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908301</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908973</id>
	<title>Re:Oh I can't wait.</title>
	<author>KlaymenDK</author>
	<datestamp>1256824980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well you could, you know, remove said electronics from said ass before servicing. Just a thought...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well you could , you know , remove said electronics from said ass before servicing .
Just a thought.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well you could, you know, remove said electronics from said ass before servicing.
Just a thought...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907913</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907913</id>
	<title>Oh I can't wait.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256811960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Electronics are going to be even more of a pain in the ass to service.<br> <br>I can't see it being terribly reliable either.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Electronics are going to be even more of a pain in the ass to service .
I ca n't see it being terribly reliable either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Electronics are going to be even more of a pain in the ass to service.
I can't see it being terribly reliable either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907845</id>
	<title>Finally</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256810880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can replace my racks with a three-ring binder!</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can replace my racks with a three-ring binder !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can replace my racks with a three-ring binder!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29909801</id>
	<title>Ahem...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256829120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You can't print semiconductors-- transistors, diodes, FETs or LEDS-- they have to be very pure crystalline solids with definite junctions, so that's a big roadblock.</p></div><p>TFTs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film\_transistor</p><p><div class="quote"><p>TFTs can be made using a wide variety of semiconductor materials. A common material is silicon. The characteristics of a silicon based TFT depend on the crystalline state. That is, the semiconductor layer can be either <b>amorphous silicon</b>, microcrystalline silicon, or it can be annealed into polysilicon.</p><p>I would say that your knowledge of transistors is somewhat outdated.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You ca n't print semiconductors-- transistors , diodes , FETs or LEDS-- they have to be very pure crystalline solids with definite junctions , so that 's a big roadblock.TFTs : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film \ _transistorTFTs can be made using a wide variety of semiconductor materials .
A common material is silicon .
The characteristics of a silicon based TFT depend on the crystalline state .
That is , the semiconductor layer can be either amorphous silicon , microcrystalline silicon , or it can be annealed into polysilicon.I would say that your knowledge of transistors is somewhat outdated .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can't print semiconductors-- transistors, diodes, FETs or LEDS-- they have to be very pure crystalline solids with definite junctions, so that's a big roadblock.TFTs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film\_transistorTFTs can be made using a wide variety of semiconductor materials.
A common material is silicon.
The characteristics of a silicon based TFT depend on the crystalline state.
That is, the semiconductor layer can be either amorphous silicon, microcrystalline silicon, or it can be annealed into polysilicon.I would say that your knowledge of transistors is somewhat outdated.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908485</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29910549</id>
	<title>Stratasys&#174; 3-D Printing + DVDs</title>
	<author>scorpivs</author>
	<datestamp>1256832000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While Stratasys&#174; is 'printing' all my capacitors, resistors and heatsinks, I'll be busy turning this ream of photo paper into head-to-head layers for a slew of motherboards and DVDs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While Stratasys   is 'printing ' all my capacitors , resistors and heatsinks , I 'll be busy turning this ream of photo paper into head-to-head layers for a slew of motherboards and DVDs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While Stratasys® is 'printing' all my capacitors, resistors and heatsinks, I'll be busy turning this ream of photo paper into head-to-head layers for a slew of motherboards and DVDs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29908753</id>
	<title>Re:Oh I can't wait.</title>
	<author>Bakkster</author>
	<datestamp>1256823300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Components are easy to replace on a PWB, at least the first few times until the pads start to lift.  I have done rework on 0402 package (0.04" x 0.02") resistors and capacitors using a hand soldering iron.  Even finer and larger components can be repaired with a <a href="http://www.howardelectronics.com/jbc/jt7000.html" title="howardelectronics.com">rework station</a> [howardelectronics.com], using hot air to reflow the solder and suction cups to place/remove components.  Of course, this is made simple due to the solder mask, which keeps the solder on the pads and pulls the components with it.
</p><p>That said, if the PWB itself fails (most likely due to a pad snapping off from rework, maybe through a crack from being flexed and temperature cycled) it's rarely economical to repair.  We're talking thicknesses around 0.002-0.008", and the copper and laminates have been baked together.  I have never heard of a PWB being repaired by fixing an internal connection.
</p><p>And if you think today's PWBs are only 7 layers, you're off by a factor of 3-4x.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Components are easy to replace on a PWB , at least the first few times until the pads start to lift .
I have done rework on 0402 package ( 0.04 " x 0.02 " ) resistors and capacitors using a hand soldering iron .
Even finer and larger components can be repaired with a rework station [ howardelectronics.com ] , using hot air to reflow the solder and suction cups to place/remove components .
Of course , this is made simple due to the solder mask , which keeps the solder on the pads and pulls the components with it .
That said , if the PWB itself fails ( most likely due to a pad snapping off from rework , maybe through a crack from being flexed and temperature cycled ) it 's rarely economical to repair .
We 're talking thicknesses around 0.002-0.008 " , and the copper and laminates have been baked together .
I have never heard of a PWB being repaired by fixing an internal connection .
And if you think today 's PWBs are only 7 layers , you 're off by a factor of 3-4x .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Components are easy to replace on a PWB, at least the first few times until the pads start to lift.
I have done rework on 0402 package (0.04" x 0.02") resistors and capacitors using a hand soldering iron.
Even finer and larger components can be repaired with a rework station [howardelectronics.com], using hot air to reflow the solder and suction cups to place/remove components.
Of course, this is made simple due to the solder mask, which keeps the solder on the pads and pulls the components with it.
That said, if the PWB itself fails (most likely due to a pad snapping off from rework, maybe through a crack from being flexed and temperature cycled) it's rarely economical to repair.
We're talking thicknesses around 0.002-0.008", and the copper and laminates have been baked together.
I have never heard of a PWB being repaired by fixing an internal connection.
And if you think today's PWBs are only 7 layers, you're off by a factor of 3-4x.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29907985</parent>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_29_038210.29909191</id>
	<title>Tinfoil hat inversion</title>
	<author>GaryOlson</author>
	<datestamp>1256826240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Now I can print a silver etched paper hat antenna which will magnify the signals into my brain. Oh, listen to all the sweet voices!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now I can print a silver etched paper hat antenna which will magnify the signals into my brain .
Oh , listen to all the sweet voices !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now I can print a silver etched paper hat antenna which will magnify the signals into my brain.
Oh, listen to all the sweet voices!</sentencetext>
</comment>
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