<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_21_1830257</id>
	<title>Fedora 12 Beta Released</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1256151000000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>AdamWill writes <i>"The Fedora project has announced the release of Fedora 12 Beta, which is <a href="http://www.fedoraproject.org/get-prerelease">available here</a>. This will be the final pre-release before the final release in November. New features of Fedora 12 highlighted in the announcement include substantial improvements and fixes to the major graphics drivers, including experimental 3D acceleration support for AMD Radeon r600+-based adapters; improved mobile broadband support and new Bluetooth PAN tethering support in NetworkManager; improved performance in the 32-bit releases; significant fixes and improvements to audio support, including easy Bluetooth audio support; initial implementation of completely open source Broadcom wireless networking via the openfwwf project; significant improvements to the Fedora virtualization stack; and easy access to the Moblin desktop environment and a preview of the new GNOME Shell interface for GNOME. Further details on the major new features of Fedora 12 can be found in the <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12\_Beta\_Announcement">release announcement</a> and <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/12/FeatureList">feature list</a>. Known issues are documented in the <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common\_F12\_bugs">common bugs page</a>."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>AdamWill writes " The Fedora project has announced the release of Fedora 12 Beta , which is available here .
This will be the final pre-release before the final release in November .
New features of Fedora 12 highlighted in the announcement include substantial improvements and fixes to the major graphics drivers , including experimental 3D acceleration support for AMD Radeon r600 + -based adapters ; improved mobile broadband support and new Bluetooth PAN tethering support in NetworkManager ; improved performance in the 32-bit releases ; significant fixes and improvements to audio support , including easy Bluetooth audio support ; initial implementation of completely open source Broadcom wireless networking via the openfwwf project ; significant improvements to the Fedora virtualization stack ; and easy access to the Moblin desktop environment and a preview of the new GNOME Shell interface for GNOME .
Further details on the major new features of Fedora 12 can be found in the release announcement and feature list .
Known issues are documented in the common bugs page .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AdamWill writes "The Fedora project has announced the release of Fedora 12 Beta, which is available here.
This will be the final pre-release before the final release in November.
New features of Fedora 12 highlighted in the announcement include substantial improvements and fixes to the major graphics drivers, including experimental 3D acceleration support for AMD Radeon r600+-based adapters; improved mobile broadband support and new Bluetooth PAN tethering support in NetworkManager; improved performance in the 32-bit releases; significant fixes and improvements to audio support, including easy Bluetooth audio support; initial implementation of completely open source Broadcom wireless networking via the openfwwf project; significant improvements to the Fedora virtualization stack; and easy access to the Moblin desktop environment and a preview of the new GNOME Shell interface for GNOME.
Further details on the major new features of Fedora 12 can be found in the release announcement and feature list.
Known issues are documented in the common bugs page.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828839</id>
	<title>Re:Great!</title>
	<author>Tubal-Cain</author>
	<datestamp>1256120160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, because release numbers actually <a href="http://www.slackware.com/faq/do\_faq.php?faq=general#0" title="slackware.com" rel="nofollow">mean something</a> [slackware.com].</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , because release numbers actually mean something [ slackware.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, because release numbers actually mean something [slackware.com].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827049</id>
	<title>Fedora</title>
	<author>sopssa</author>
	<datestamp>1256155560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my opinion Fedora is the best distro out there, a lot nicer to use than Debian (and especially Ubuntu) too. Also their repositories contain lots of software and they're actually put there correctly - hundreds of times I've run into missing or non-working features with other distros repositories.</p><p>Seems they're actually also improving exactly what needs to be improved - graphics driver support, sound support, bluetooth support and wireless networking support. Other distros usually seem to go select just some more obscure improvements, but these should affect lots of users.</p><p>I like it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my opinion Fedora is the best distro out there , a lot nicer to use than Debian ( and especially Ubuntu ) too .
Also their repositories contain lots of software and they 're actually put there correctly - hundreds of times I 've run into missing or non-working features with other distros repositories.Seems they 're actually also improving exactly what needs to be improved - graphics driver support , sound support , bluetooth support and wireless networking support .
Other distros usually seem to go select just some more obscure improvements , but these should affect lots of users.I like it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my opinion Fedora is the best distro out there, a lot nicer to use than Debian (and especially Ubuntu) too.
Also their repositories contain lots of software and they're actually put there correctly - hundreds of times I've run into missing or non-working features with other distros repositories.Seems they're actually also improving exactly what needs to be improved - graphics driver support, sound support, bluetooth support and wireless networking support.
Other distros usually seem to go select just some more obscure improvements, but these should affect lots of users.I like it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29826995</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828765</id>
	<title>Base Fedora Version for Redhat EL 6?</title>
	<author>butlerm</author>
	<datestamp>1256119800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, does anyone know when Redhat Enterprise Linux 6 is supposed to come out, and whether it is going to be derived from Fedora 12 or some earlier version?  Redhat EL 5 is getting a little long in the tooth.  The kernel is still 2.6.18 plus patches.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , does anyone know when Redhat Enterprise Linux 6 is supposed to come out , and whether it is going to be derived from Fedora 12 or some earlier version ?
Redhat EL 5 is getting a little long in the tooth .
The kernel is still 2.6.18 plus patches .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, does anyone know when Redhat Enterprise Linux 6 is supposed to come out, and whether it is going to be derived from Fedora 12 or some earlier version?
Redhat EL 5 is getting a little long in the tooth.
The kernel is still 2.6.18 plus patches.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29866735</id>
	<title>For those complaining about Ubuntu...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256504340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...being obese, did you try #!CrunchBang?<br>Here: http://crunchbanglinux.org/<br>CrunchBang is an Ubuntu-based distro that uses the mini iso install of Ubuntu and uses Openbox as a WM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...being obese , did you try # ! CrunchBang ? Here : http : //crunchbanglinux.org/CrunchBang is an Ubuntu-based distro that uses the mini iso install of Ubuntu and uses Openbox as a WM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...being obese, did you try #!CrunchBang?Here: http://crunchbanglinux.org/CrunchBang is an Ubuntu-based distro that uses the mini iso install of Ubuntu and uses Openbox as a WM.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29829225</id>
	<title>Re:ATI Driver Issues</title>
	<author>Eil</author>
	<datestamp>1256122080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did you file a bug report? If no, did you check to see that a bug report existed?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did you file a bug report ?
If no , did you check to see that a bug report existed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did you file a bug report?
If no, did you check to see that a bug report existed?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827511</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256157660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In my opinion Fedora is one of the worst distros out there. Check out the number of bugs in any version of Fedora that they close as "WONT FIX" on account that a new version is released or about to be released. It's a very high percentage. The same bug gets filed for the new Fedora version but, it too, is marked "WONT FIX" because a new version is coming. Why bother actually fixing a bug when you can just ignore it  and close it in six months?!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In my opinion Fedora is one of the worst distros out there .
Check out the number of bugs in any version of Fedora that they close as " WONT FIX " on account that a new version is released or about to be released .
It 's a very high percentage .
The same bug gets filed for the new Fedora version but , it too , is marked " WONT FIX " because a new version is coming .
Why bother actually fixing a bug when you can just ignore it and close it in six months ?
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my opinion Fedora is one of the worst distros out there.
Check out the number of bugs in any version of Fedora that they close as "WONT FIX" on account that a new version is released or about to be released.
It's a very high percentage.
The same bug gets filed for the new Fedora version but, it too, is marked "WONT FIX" because a new version is coming.
Why bother actually fixing a bug when you can just ignore it  and close it in six months?
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827049</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29833767</id>
	<title>"Experimental" 3D support?</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1256216880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Tthe R600 is two generations out of date. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it's taken 3 years to get <i>experimental</i> 3D support? Am I missing something fundamental? If I'm not, that's pretty appalling turnaround regardless of development model.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tthe R600 is two generations out of date .
Forgive me if I 'm wrong , but it 's taken 3 years to get experimental 3D support ?
Am I missing something fundamental ?
If I 'm not , that 's pretty appalling turnaround regardless of development model .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tthe R600 is two generations out of date.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it's taken 3 years to get experimental 3D support?
Am I missing something fundamental?
If I'm not, that's pretty appalling turnaround regardless of development model.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29829409</id>
	<title>Re:ATI Driver Issues</title>
	<author>madbavarian</author>
	<datestamp>1256122920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I feel sorry for the folks putting this release together.  They got handed a hot potato and it isn't clear how they are going to stabilize this distribution in time for the real release in a month.  I installed the 64-bit version on two AMD machines (one laptop and one desktop) and both of them have issues with random lockups after 10 minutes or so.  In addition nfs4 with autofs stopped working.  Ironically default nfs4 was supposed to be  one of the new features of this release.  Last time this happened it was some weird nfs4 interaction with IPv6.  I guess not even Red Hat is taking IPv6 seriously and making the developers eat their own dogfood.</p><p>In any case, I'll probably wait a while after the real release before I roll it out to the rest of the machines.  It reminds me a bit of the old X11 releases where the word on the street was always to wait a month or two before installing it and let some other poor slob work out what is broken and how to work around it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I feel sorry for the folks putting this release together .
They got handed a hot potato and it is n't clear how they are going to stabilize this distribution in time for the real release in a month .
I installed the 64-bit version on two AMD machines ( one laptop and one desktop ) and both of them have issues with random lockups after 10 minutes or so .
In addition nfs4 with autofs stopped working .
Ironically default nfs4 was supposed to be one of the new features of this release .
Last time this happened it was some weird nfs4 interaction with IPv6 .
I guess not even Red Hat is taking IPv6 seriously and making the developers eat their own dogfood.In any case , I 'll probably wait a while after the real release before I roll it out to the rest of the machines .
It reminds me a bit of the old X11 releases where the word on the street was always to wait a month or two before installing it and let some other poor slob work out what is broken and how to work around it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I feel sorry for the folks putting this release together.
They got handed a hot potato and it isn't clear how they are going to stabilize this distribution in time for the real release in a month.
I installed the 64-bit version on two AMD machines (one laptop and one desktop) and both of them have issues with random lockups after 10 minutes or so.
In addition nfs4 with autofs stopped working.
Ironically default nfs4 was supposed to be  one of the new features of this release.
Last time this happened it was some weird nfs4 interaction with IPv6.
I guess not even Red Hat is taking IPv6 seriously and making the developers eat their own dogfood.In any case, I'll probably wait a while after the real release before I roll it out to the rest of the machines.
It reminds me a bit of the old X11 releases where the word on the street was always to wait a month or two before installing it and let some other poor slob work out what is broken and how to work around it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29831111</id>
	<title>So maybe.</title>
	<author>pottymouth</author>
	<datestamp>1256136360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. there's support for multiple monitors in KDE now... maybe... PLEASE!!!</p><p>I've been running 11 for a few months now and it's<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... ok....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.. there 's support for multiple monitors in KDE now... maybe... PLEASE ! !
! I 've been running 11 for a few months now and it 's .... ok... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> .. there's support for multiple monitors in KDE now... maybe... PLEASE!!
!I've been running 11 for a few months now and it's .... ok....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828063</id>
	<title>Why don't they try fixing Fedora 11 first?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256116680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How many times have you been able to do a 'yum update' or 'preupgrade' without having to worry about whether the system will be able to boot correctly?</p><p>How many times has anaconda crashed mid-install, or failed to detect your RAID and decided instead to wipe individual drives without really telling you, or any number of other nagging problems?</p><p>'Bleeding-edge' isn't an excuse by any measure; I never run into any problems when upgrading FreeBSD regularly and its ports tree stays far more current than Fedora's yum packages ever will manage.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How many times have you been able to do a 'yum update ' or 'preupgrade ' without having to worry about whether the system will be able to boot correctly ? How many times has anaconda crashed mid-install , or failed to detect your RAID and decided instead to wipe individual drives without really telling you , or any number of other nagging problems ?
'Bleeding-edge ' is n't an excuse by any measure ; I never run into any problems when upgrading FreeBSD regularly and its ports tree stays far more current than Fedora 's yum packages ever will manage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many times have you been able to do a 'yum update' or 'preupgrade' without having to worry about whether the system will be able to boot correctly?How many times has anaconda crashed mid-install, or failed to detect your RAID and decided instead to wipe individual drives without really telling you, or any number of other nagging problems?
'Bleeding-edge' isn't an excuse by any measure; I never run into any problems when upgrading FreeBSD regularly and its ports tree stays far more current than Fedora's yum packages ever will manage.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29829953</id>
	<title>RHEL6</title>
	<author>GoochOwnsYou</author>
	<datestamp>1256126460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My contacts at Red Hat say that F12 will be the basis for RHEL6, only they plan to do some additions like they are pushing to get btrfs out the door in time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My contacts at Red Hat say that F12 will be the basis for RHEL6 , only they plan to do some additions like they are pushing to get btrfs out the door in time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My contacts at Red Hat say that F12 will be the basis for RHEL6, only they plan to do some additions like they are pushing to get btrfs out the door in time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827223</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256156280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>By 'Apache' you mean httpd ?</p><p>yum install httpd</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>By 'Apache ' you mean httpd ? yum install httpd</tokentext>
<sentencetext>By 'Apache' you mean httpd ?yum install httpd</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827195</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29830427</id>
	<title>Re:ATI Driver Issues</title>
	<author>AdamWill</author>
	<datestamp>1256130120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I installed the 64-bit version on two AMD machines (one laptop and one desktop) and both of them have issues with random lockups after 10 minutes or so."</p><p>May well be <a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show\_bug.cgi?id=517625" title="redhat.com">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show\_bug.cgi?id=517625</a> [redhat.com] , if they also have AMD graphics adapters. Try booting with pcie\_aspm=off as a kernel parameter. If that helps, add a comment on the bug report to note that you have the same problem, with output of 'lspci -nn'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I installed the 64-bit version on two AMD machines ( one laptop and one desktop ) and both of them have issues with random lockups after 10 minutes or so .
" May well be https : //bugzilla.redhat.com/show \ _bug.cgi ? id = 517625 [ redhat.com ] , if they also have AMD graphics adapters .
Try booting with pcie \ _aspm = off as a kernel parameter .
If that helps , add a comment on the bug report to note that you have the same problem , with output of 'lspci -nn' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I installed the 64-bit version on two AMD machines (one laptop and one desktop) and both of them have issues with random lockups after 10 minutes or so.
"May well be https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show\_bug.cgi?id=517625 [redhat.com] , if they also have AMD graphics adapters.
Try booting with pcie\_aspm=off as a kernel parameter.
If that helps, add a comment on the bug report to note that you have the same problem, with output of 'lspci -nn'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29829409</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827311</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora</title>
	<author>EasyPeasy99</author>
	<datestamp>1256156640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, if you can't manage "yum install httpd", you are better off staying with Win98.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , if you ca n't manage " yum install httpd " , you are better off staying with Win98 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, if you can't manage "yum install httpd", you are better off staying with Win98.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827195</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29842403</id>
	<title>Fedora - audio done right</title>
	<author>Oxyde</author>
	<datestamp>1256226000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What I like most about Fedora - audio is done right. On Ubuntu it is a mess. Read Lennart Poettering blog to learn why.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What I like most about Fedora - audio is done right .
On Ubuntu it is a mess .
Read Lennart Poettering blog to learn why .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What I like most about Fedora - audio is done right.
On Ubuntu it is a mess.
Read Lennart Poettering blog to learn why.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828217</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256117220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's got many good points.  I'm running it on one computer at the moment.</p><p>It has some obvious downsides compared to Debian, though.  For example, it seems to lack Debian's policy requiring all programs to have manpages, so locating documentation is sometimes tricky; a number of core programs seem not to install any documentation at all, preferring instead to refer to their websites, which is utterly useless when one wishes to refer to the manual while offline.</p><p>The software installation is also disappointing.  Yum works perfectly well, and even has some advantages over apt-get, but it is so <i>slow</i>.  There isn't a decent interface, either; yumex makes yum look fast, while the PackageKit GUI is dumbed down so far as to be essentially useless.  There doesn't seem to be anything comparable to aptitude, i.e. a no-nonsense front-end that provides a powerful interactive UI even over a basic ssh connection.</p><p>The final annoyance is Fedora's constant insistence on telling me to reboot.  No, Fedora, I do <i>not</i> need to reboot my server just because you upgraded dovecot.  Restarting the dovecot service will be perfectly sufficent to make sure there aren't any stale open files or shared libraries hanging around.  Sigh.</p><p>But at least it doesn't constantly "upgrade" to broken drivers and then refuse to include the fixed versions, like Ubuntu does.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's got many good points .
I 'm running it on one computer at the moment.It has some obvious downsides compared to Debian , though .
For example , it seems to lack Debian 's policy requiring all programs to have manpages , so locating documentation is sometimes tricky ; a number of core programs seem not to install any documentation at all , preferring instead to refer to their websites , which is utterly useless when one wishes to refer to the manual while offline.The software installation is also disappointing .
Yum works perfectly well , and even has some advantages over apt-get , but it is so slow .
There is n't a decent interface , either ; yumex makes yum look fast , while the PackageKit GUI is dumbed down so far as to be essentially useless .
There does n't seem to be anything comparable to aptitude , i.e .
a no-nonsense front-end that provides a powerful interactive UI even over a basic ssh connection.The final annoyance is Fedora 's constant insistence on telling me to reboot .
No , Fedora , I do not need to reboot my server just because you upgraded dovecot .
Restarting the dovecot service will be perfectly sufficent to make sure there are n't any stale open files or shared libraries hanging around .
Sigh.But at least it does n't constantly " upgrade " to broken drivers and then refuse to include the fixed versions , like Ubuntu does .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's got many good points.
I'm running it on one computer at the moment.It has some obvious downsides compared to Debian, though.
For example, it seems to lack Debian's policy requiring all programs to have manpages, so locating documentation is sometimes tricky; a number of core programs seem not to install any documentation at all, preferring instead to refer to their websites, which is utterly useless when one wishes to refer to the manual while offline.The software installation is also disappointing.
Yum works perfectly well, and even has some advantages over apt-get, but it is so slow.
There isn't a decent interface, either; yumex makes yum look fast, while the PackageKit GUI is dumbed down so far as to be essentially useless.
There doesn't seem to be anything comparable to aptitude, i.e.
a no-nonsense front-end that provides a powerful interactive UI even over a basic ssh connection.The final annoyance is Fedora's constant insistence on telling me to reboot.
No, Fedora, I do not need to reboot my server just because you upgraded dovecot.
Restarting the dovecot service will be perfectly sufficent to make sure there aren't any stale open files or shared libraries hanging around.
Sigh.But at least it doesn't constantly "upgrade" to broken drivers and then refuse to include the fixed versions, like Ubuntu does.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827049</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29832855</id>
	<title>Re:Bluetooth PAN tethering support in NetworkManag</title>
	<author>zdzichu</author>
	<datestamp>1256204580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obviously, <a href="http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2009/07/10/unwire-with-networkmanager/" title="gnome.org">you are mistaken</a> [gnome.org]. If you do not see bluetooth PAN options, it may be: 1) BT PAN disabled/unavailable on your phone; 2) bug in NM -- google for fedora 12 network manager test day, it was tested back then.<br>Also notice, that BT DUN (I think more popular than PAN) networking is coming to NM after release.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obviously , you are mistaken [ gnome.org ] .
If you do not see bluetooth PAN options , it may be : 1 ) BT PAN disabled/unavailable on your phone ; 2 ) bug in NM -- google for fedora 12 network manager test day , it was tested back then.Also notice , that BT DUN ( I think more popular than PAN ) networking is coming to NM after release .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obviously, you are mistaken [gnome.org].
If you do not see bluetooth PAN options, it may be: 1) BT PAN disabled/unavailable on your phone; 2) bug in NM -- google for fedora 12 network manager test day, it was tested back then.Also notice, that BT DUN (I think more popular than PAN) networking is coming to NM after release.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29835165</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora</title>
	<author>randomsearch</author>
	<datestamp>1256226480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I used Red Hat / Fedora from 1998 to 2007, when I switched to Ubuntu.

The difference at the time was not too great, but I disagree about the package managers.  yum was a pain in Fedora - so slow, unresponsive and the GUIs were terrible.  Ubuntu's package manager GUI, about to be majorly upgraded, is comparatively wonderful.

RS</htmltext>
<tokenext>I used Red Hat / Fedora from 1998 to 2007 , when I switched to Ubuntu .
The difference at the time was not too great , but I disagree about the package managers .
yum was a pain in Fedora - so slow , unresponsive and the GUIs were terrible .
Ubuntu 's package manager GUI , about to be majorly upgraded , is comparatively wonderful .
RS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used Red Hat / Fedora from 1998 to 2007, when I switched to Ubuntu.
The difference at the time was not too great, but I disagree about the package managers.
yum was a pain in Fedora - so slow, unresponsive and the GUIs were terrible.
Ubuntu's package manager GUI, about to be majorly upgraded, is comparatively wonderful.
RS</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827049</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827387</id>
	<title>Bluetooth PAN tethering support in NetworkManager</title>
	<author>shic</author>
	<datestamp>1256157000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Really?  Only last week I was looking at NetworkManager - and it didn't support this - even in the development version... based upon the information I could find.</p><p>What gives?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Really ?
Only last week I was looking at NetworkManager - and it did n't support this - even in the development version... based upon the information I could find.What gives ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really?
Only last week I was looking at NetworkManager - and it didn't support this - even in the development version... based upon the information I could find.What gives?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29826995</id>
	<title>Great!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256155260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Another piece of crap from Fedora.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Another piece of crap from Fedora .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another piece of crap from Fedora.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827563</id>
	<title>ATI Driver Issues</title>
	<author>KJACK98</author>
	<datestamp>1256157840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've been a loyal fedora user since Fedora 8 when I made the switch to it for my primary OS.   I upgraded to Fedora 11 from Fedora 8, and now my system has been constantly becoming unresponsive, even the xconfig changes mentioned on their errata page reduced the freezing but still get it randomly.  As for the commercial ATI drivers, they suck and all I get is a black screen with a blinking cursor so I for one am praying they have finally resolved this issue in the next release.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been a loyal fedora user since Fedora 8 when I made the switch to it for my primary OS .
I upgraded to Fedora 11 from Fedora 8 , and now my system has been constantly becoming unresponsive , even the xconfig changes mentioned on their errata page reduced the freezing but still get it randomly .
As for the commercial ATI drivers , they suck and all I get is a black screen with a blinking cursor so I for one am praying they have finally resolved this issue in the next release .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been a loyal fedora user since Fedora 8 when I made the switch to it for my primary OS.
I upgraded to Fedora 11 from Fedora 8, and now my system has been constantly becoming unresponsive, even the xconfig changes mentioned on their errata page reduced the freezing but still get it randomly.
As for the commercial ATI drivers, they suck and all I get is a black screen with a blinking cursor so I for one am praying they have finally resolved this issue in the next release.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827217</id>
	<title>Re:Great!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256156280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They've also done a great job at banging out full digit releases frequently..</htmltext>
<tokenext>They 've also done a great job at banging out full digit releases frequently. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They've also done a great job at banging out full digit releases frequently..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827131</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29837999</id>
	<title>Re:"Experimental" 3D support?</title>
	<author>AdamWill</author>
	<datestamp>1256238240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Um. It's not, really, given that AMD has only started providing useful specifications relatively recently, and writing 3D drivers ain't exactly a walk in the park. Compare that NVIDIA is, what, 11 years old and we don't have usable open source 3D support for any of those chips yet (nouveau is getting there, though). \_You\_ try reverse engineering a 3D graphics card and see how far you get.</p><p>r700 and r800 are very similar to r600 as far as writing driver support goes, and AMD have provided those specs much faster, so r700 and r800 (and future generation) support should come fairly soon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Um .
It 's not , really , given that AMD has only started providing useful specifications relatively recently , and writing 3D drivers ai n't exactly a walk in the park .
Compare that NVIDIA is , what , 11 years old and we do n't have usable open source 3D support for any of those chips yet ( nouveau is getting there , though ) .
\ _You \ _ try reverse engineering a 3D graphics card and see how far you get.r700 and r800 are very similar to r600 as far as writing driver support goes , and AMD have provided those specs much faster , so r700 and r800 ( and future generation ) support should come fairly soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Um.
It's not, really, given that AMD has only started providing useful specifications relatively recently, and writing 3D drivers ain't exactly a walk in the park.
Compare that NVIDIA is, what, 11 years old and we don't have usable open source 3D support for any of those chips yet (nouveau is getting there, though).
\_You\_ try reverse engineering a 3D graphics card and see how far you get.r700 and r800 are very similar to r600 as far as writing driver support goes, and AMD have provided those specs much faster, so r700 and r800 (and future generation) support should come fairly soon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29833767</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827797</id>
	<title>Pulse Audio</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256115660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've used Fedora since Fedora Core 4 and am currently running 9,10, and 11 between different machines.  I prefer Fedora over any other distro (having tried quite a few different ones in VMs before settling on Fedora).  The only serious issue I've ever had with Fedora that I really wish would be fixed is the way the audio system works.  They have tried pushing everyone over to pulse audio which overall I think is a great idea, but the problem is pulse audio isn't compatible with everything and when something tries to directly access ALSA or OSS it can break the whole sound system.  So far I have had problems several times with me losing sound on my entire system with updates.  I've also had it happen 3 or 4 times in a row.

I know the whole ALSA, OSS, or PA debate is more than just Fedora but I think that is one of the biggest issues in all the distros that needs to be looked at and considered carefully.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've used Fedora since Fedora Core 4 and am currently running 9,10 , and 11 between different machines .
I prefer Fedora over any other distro ( having tried quite a few different ones in VMs before settling on Fedora ) .
The only serious issue I 've ever had with Fedora that I really wish would be fixed is the way the audio system works .
They have tried pushing everyone over to pulse audio which overall I think is a great idea , but the problem is pulse audio is n't compatible with everything and when something tries to directly access ALSA or OSS it can break the whole sound system .
So far I have had problems several times with me losing sound on my entire system with updates .
I 've also had it happen 3 or 4 times in a row .
I know the whole ALSA , OSS , or PA debate is more than just Fedora but I think that is one of the biggest issues in all the distros that needs to be looked at and considered carefully .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've used Fedora since Fedora Core 4 and am currently running 9,10, and 11 between different machines.
I prefer Fedora over any other distro (having tried quite a few different ones in VMs before settling on Fedora).
The only serious issue I've ever had with Fedora that I really wish would be fixed is the way the audio system works.
They have tried pushing everyone over to pulse audio which overall I think is a great idea, but the problem is pulse audio isn't compatible with everything and when something tries to directly access ALSA or OSS it can break the whole sound system.
So far I have had problems several times with me losing sound on my entire system with updates.
I've also had it happen 3 or 4 times in a row.
I know the whole ALSA, OSS, or PA debate is more than just Fedora but I think that is one of the biggest issues in all the distros that needs to be looked at and considered carefully.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827931</id>
	<title>Re:Bluetooth PAN tethering support in NetworkManag</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256116200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Works fine in the F12 beta.  Teterhing my iPhone is seamless.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Works fine in the F12 beta .
Teterhing my iPhone is seamless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Works fine in the F12 beta.
Teterhing my iPhone is seamless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827131</id>
	<title>Re:Great!</title>
	<author>wizardforce</author>
	<datestamp>1256155860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you don't like Fedora, you are free to use one of <a href="http://www.linux.org/dist/list.html" title="linux.org">400 other distros.</a> [linux.org]  From what I've seen of the last few releases, Fedora has done a pretty good job of improving the quality of its releases.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you do n't like Fedora , you are free to use one of 400 other distros .
[ linux.org ] From what I 've seen of the last few releases , Fedora has done a pretty good job of improving the quality of its releases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you don't like Fedora, you are free to use one of 400 other distros.
[linux.org]  From what I've seen of the last few releases, Fedora has done a pretty good job of improving the quality of its releases.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29826995</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828667</id>
	<title>Be weary of upgrades if your /boot is small</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256119320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was bit by the <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common\_F12\_bugs#boot-500mb" title="fedoraproject.org">preupgrade</a> [fedoraproject.org] CLOSED NOTABUG "bug" where preupgrade requires a sizeable chunk of (temporary) disk space in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot during an upgrade from Fedora 10 to Fedora 11.  I ended up with a system that was unbootable, but repairable.  No CDROM made things<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. interesting, to say the least.  I use pxeboot and kickstart to do all my installs because I hate having to swap CDs/burn DVDs<br> <br>I don't recall exactly what I did to work around the huge file "needing" to be in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot, but I think I had a local copy of the install medium on disk, and softlinked the big file from<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot to where it actually resided.  Then preupgrade went smoothly.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was bit by the preupgrade [ fedoraproject.org ] CLOSED NOTABUG " bug " where preupgrade requires a sizeable chunk of ( temporary ) disk space in /boot during an upgrade from Fedora 10 to Fedora 11 .
I ended up with a system that was unbootable , but repairable .
No CDROM made things .. interesting , to say the least .
I use pxeboot and kickstart to do all my installs because I hate having to swap CDs/burn DVDs I do n't recall exactly what I did to work around the huge file " needing " to be in /boot , but I think I had a local copy of the install medium on disk , and softlinked the big file from /boot to where it actually resided .
Then preupgrade went smoothly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was bit by the preupgrade [fedoraproject.org] CLOSED NOTABUG "bug" where preupgrade requires a sizeable chunk of (temporary) disk space in /boot during an upgrade from Fedora 10 to Fedora 11.
I ended up with a system that was unbootable, but repairable.
No CDROM made things .. interesting, to say the least.
I use pxeboot and kickstart to do all my installs because I hate having to swap CDs/burn DVDs I don't recall exactly what I did to work around the huge file "needing" to be in /boot, but I think I had a local copy of the install medium on disk, and softlinked the big file from /boot to where it actually resided.
Then preupgrade went smoothly.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828097</id>
	<title>Re:ATI Driver Issues</title>
	<author>Segod</author>
	<datestamp>1256116860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I installed mine manually using this as a guide:<br><a href="http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17603" title="phoronix.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17603</a> [phoronix.com]</p><p>But if you run the command:<br>yum install mesa-dri-drivers-experimental<br>it should hopefully clear things up for you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I installed mine manually using this as a guide : http : //www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php ? t = 17603 [ phoronix.com ] But if you run the command : yum install mesa-dri-drivers-experimentalit should hopefully clear things up for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I installed mine manually using this as a guide:http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17603 [phoronix.com]But if you run the command:yum install mesa-dri-drivers-experimentalit should hopefully clear things up for you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29836757</id>
	<title>Re:"Experimental" 3D support?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256233380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AMD/ATI only released the documentation for R600 in December 2008.  Having experimental 3D support in October 2009 isn't that bad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AMD/ATI only released the documentation for R600 in December 2008 .
Having experimental 3D support in October 2009 is n't that bad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AMD/ATI only released the documentation for R600 in December 2008.
Having experimental 3D support in October 2009 isn't that bad.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29833767</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828831</id>
	<title>Most "Features" Have Nothing To Do With Fedora</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256120100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most of the features announced have nothing to do with Fedora and everything to do with the Linux Kernel, the X Window System and the respective desktops. This means that any distro with these components will have these features.</p><p>What makes Fedora unique among distros? How has that changed or been improved? What has been done to integrate all that FOSS into Fedora? What patches have been applied to the Kernel? What are the admin tools? Anything new in the install process?</p><p>Just listing features of software others have independently developed tells me nothing about Fedora as a distro.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of the features announced have nothing to do with Fedora and everything to do with the Linux Kernel , the X Window System and the respective desktops .
This means that any distro with these components will have these features.What makes Fedora unique among distros ?
How has that changed or been improved ?
What has been done to integrate all that FOSS into Fedora ?
What patches have been applied to the Kernel ?
What are the admin tools ?
Anything new in the install process ? Just listing features of software others have independently developed tells me nothing about Fedora as a distro .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of the features announced have nothing to do with Fedora and everything to do with the Linux Kernel, the X Window System and the respective desktops.
This means that any distro with these components will have these features.What makes Fedora unique among distros?
How has that changed or been improved?
What has been done to integrate all that FOSS into Fedora?
What patches have been applied to the Kernel?
What are the admin tools?
Anything new in the install process?Just listing features of software others have independently developed tells me nothing about Fedora as a distro.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29832061</id>
	<title>Fedora is fine</title>
	<author>kokoko1</author>
	<datestamp>1256148780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Before switching to Fedora I was using Slackware for almost two years and now I am using Fedora from last 3 and half years. I thinks Fedora is the best Distro out their, I am using it as my primary OS on my work and home laptops (F10, F11) without any issue.
At work I use wireless Internet, Fedora support Intel base wireless cards out of the box, at home i use wired network.
At my previous job as sysadmin (telecommute) our all servers were running xen/UML virtualization and host/guest OSs were Fedora. I remember we have to upgrade the host/guest OSs using yum and the whole process of upgrading online was easy. someitme we get into issue which get resolved in no time.
So IMHO Fedora is the best Linux distro and with my past experience i do not find any issue using Fedora as Server OS.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Before switching to Fedora I was using Slackware for almost two years and now I am using Fedora from last 3 and half years .
I thinks Fedora is the best Distro out their , I am using it as my primary OS on my work and home laptops ( F10 , F11 ) without any issue .
At work I use wireless Internet , Fedora support Intel base wireless cards out of the box , at home i use wired network .
At my previous job as sysadmin ( telecommute ) our all servers were running xen/UML virtualization and host/guest OSs were Fedora .
I remember we have to upgrade the host/guest OSs using yum and the whole process of upgrading online was easy .
someitme we get into issue which get resolved in no time .
So IMHO Fedora is the best Linux distro and with my past experience i do not find any issue using Fedora as Server OS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before switching to Fedora I was using Slackware for almost two years and now I am using Fedora from last 3 and half years.
I thinks Fedora is the best Distro out their, I am using it as my primary OS on my work and home laptops (F10, F11) without any issue.
At work I use wireless Internet, Fedora support Intel base wireless cards out of the box, at home i use wired network.
At my previous job as sysadmin (telecommute) our all servers were running xen/UML virtualization and host/guest OSs were Fedora.
I remember we have to upgrade the host/guest OSs using yum and the whole process of upgrading online was easy.
someitme we get into issue which get resolved in no time.
So IMHO Fedora is the best Linux distro and with my past experience i do not find any issue using Fedora as Server OS.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29839471</id>
	<title>Re:ATI Driver Issues</title>
	<author>RiotingPacifist</author>
	<datestamp>1256202360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>nomodeset, I had similar symptoms (well not completly random i could also trigger it on demand with a firefox profile (only one particular profile), i disabled modestting and now all is good</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>nomodeset , I had similar symptoms ( well not completly random i could also trigger it on demand with a firefox profile ( only one particular profile ) , i disabled modestting and now all is good</tokentext>
<sentencetext>nomodeset, I had similar symptoms (well not completly random i could also trigger it on demand with a firefox profile (only one particular profile), i disabled modestting and now all is good</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29830169</id>
	<title>Re:Why don't they try fixing Fedora 11 first?</title>
	<author>gilboad</author>
	<datestamp>1256128200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"How many times have you been able to do a 'yum update' or 'preupgrade' without having to worry about whether the system will be able to boot correctly?"</p><p>Around 99.9\% of the time.</p><p>"How many times has anaconda crashed mid-install"</p><p>Aside from a known bug [1] (a well documented common bug), zero (or at least as far as I remember). And I've been using Fedora since F2 on machines ranging from PII/366 laptop to 24 core monsters.</p><p>"...or failed to detect your RAID and decided instead to wipe individual drives without really telling you, or any number of other nagging problems?"</p><p>0.<br>Granted, I may not be as "successful" as you are- as I only manage ~20 different Fedora machines (as a side job) - but who am I to argue with your well documented arguments... (You forgot about RPM-hell. If you're taking the time to spread FUD, at least do it right!)</p><p>- Gilboa<br>[1] <a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show\_bug.cgi?id=501057" title="redhat.com" rel="nofollow">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show\_bug.cgi?id=501057</a> [redhat.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" How many times have you been able to do a 'yum update ' or 'preupgrade ' without having to worry about whether the system will be able to boot correctly ?
" Around 99.9 \ % of the time .
" How many times has anaconda crashed mid-install " Aside from a known bug [ 1 ] ( a well documented common bug ) , zero ( or at least as far as I remember ) .
And I 've been using Fedora since F2 on machines ranging from PII/366 laptop to 24 core monsters .
" ...or failed to detect your RAID and decided instead to wipe individual drives without really telling you , or any number of other nagging problems ?
" 0.Granted , I may not be as " successful " as you are- as I only manage ~ 20 different Fedora machines ( as a side job ) - but who am I to argue with your well documented arguments... ( You forgot about RPM-hell .
If you 're taking the time to spread FUD , at least do it right !
) - Gilboa [ 1 ] https : //bugzilla.redhat.com/show \ _bug.cgi ? id = 501057 [ redhat.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"How many times have you been able to do a 'yum update' or 'preupgrade' without having to worry about whether the system will be able to boot correctly?
"Around 99.9\% of the time.
"How many times has anaconda crashed mid-install"Aside from a known bug [1] (a well documented common bug), zero (or at least as far as I remember).
And I've been using Fedora since F2 on machines ranging from PII/366 laptop to 24 core monsters.
"...or failed to detect your RAID and decided instead to wipe individual drives without really telling you, or any number of other nagging problems?
"0.Granted, I may not be as "successful" as you are- as I only manage ~20 different Fedora machines (as a side job) - but who am I to argue with your well documented arguments... (You forgot about RPM-hell.
If you're taking the time to spread FUD, at least do it right!
)- Gilboa[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show\_bug.cgi?id=501057 [redhat.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828063</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828753</id>
	<title>Re:ATI Driver Issues</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256119800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's because you don't love KMS enough. You need to have more faith. Even attempting to configure X implies that deep down you just don't truly believe, since true believers have no xorg.conf.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's because you do n't love KMS enough .
You need to have more faith .
Even attempting to configure X implies that deep down you just do n't truly believe , since true believers have no xorg.conf .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's because you don't love KMS enough.
You need to have more faith.
Even attempting to configure X implies that deep down you just don't truly believe, since true believers have no xorg.conf.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827195</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256156160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Have you tried installing Apache on Redhat if you didn't install it from the disk the first time?  I gave up.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you tried installing Apache on Redhat if you did n't install it from the disk the first time ?
I gave up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you tried installing Apache on Redhat if you didn't install it from the disk the first time?
I gave up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827049</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29833135</id>
	<title>Re:Pulse Audio</title>
	<author>donaldm</author>
	<datestamp>1256208180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Try this <a href="http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=225660" title="fedoraforum.org"> forum</a> [fedoraforum.org], I followed the configuration method as detailed in by the person in the forum for pulseaudio and it worked on my machine. Baring that try a search on "pulseaudio howto". Ok I am repeating myself in this discussion but the configuration as detailed (it is very quick and simple) actually worked for me. It could also work for you so at least give it a try.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Try this forum [ fedoraforum.org ] , I followed the configuration method as detailed in by the person in the forum for pulseaudio and it worked on my machine .
Baring that try a search on " pulseaudio howto " .
Ok I am repeating myself in this discussion but the configuration as detailed ( it is very quick and simple ) actually worked for me .
It could also work for you so at least give it a try .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Try this  forum [fedoraforum.org], I followed the configuration method as detailed in by the person in the forum for pulseaudio and it worked on my machine.
Baring that try a search on "pulseaudio howto".
Ok I am repeating myself in this discussion but the configuration as detailed (it is very quick and simple) actually worked for me.
It could also work for you so at least give it a try.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29830145</id>
	<title>Re:Bluetooth PAN tethering support in NetworkManag</title>
	<author>AdamWill</author>
	<datestamp>1256128080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Really? Only last week I was looking at NetworkManager - and it didn't support this - even in the development version... based upon the information I could find."</p><p>Well, take a look at <a href="http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2009/07/10/unwire-with-networkmanager/" title="gnome.org">http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2009/07/10/unwire-with-networkmanager/</a> [gnome.org] .</p><p>Note there's two types of Bluetooth tethering (two possible protocols) - DUN and PAN. Some mobile devices can only do one or the other, some can do both. Only PAN has been implemented so far, there's no DUN support yet unfortunately. That's coming, probably for F13.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Really ?
Only last week I was looking at NetworkManager - and it did n't support this - even in the development version... based upon the information I could find .
" Well , take a look at http : //blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2009/07/10/unwire-with-networkmanager/ [ gnome.org ] .Note there 's two types of Bluetooth tethering ( two possible protocols ) - DUN and PAN .
Some mobile devices can only do one or the other , some can do both .
Only PAN has been implemented so far , there 's no DUN support yet unfortunately .
That 's coming , probably for F13 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Really?
Only last week I was looking at NetworkManager - and it didn't support this - even in the development version... based upon the information I could find.
"Well, take a look at http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2009/07/10/unwire-with-networkmanager/ [gnome.org] .Note there's two types of Bluetooth tethering (two possible protocols) - DUN and PAN.
Some mobile devices can only do one or the other, some can do both.
Only PAN has been implemented so far, there's no DUN support yet unfortunately.
That's coming, probably for F13.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827387</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29833161</id>
	<title>Re:Pulse Audio</title>
	<author>kramulous</author>
	<datestamp>1256208540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For weeks and weeks audio didn't work on my machine.  I tried all sorts of things.  Well, honestly, I did a two second search and tried one thing.  It's just that sound is not that important for my work machine so I don't really care.</p><p>Then, all of a sudden it started to work.  It turned out that all I needed to do was reboot after updating (kernel or something).  Lucky I had that client that did some nasty stuff with memory that required me to reboot.  I couldn't remember the last time I rebooted.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For weeks and weeks audio did n't work on my machine .
I tried all sorts of things .
Well , honestly , I did a two second search and tried one thing .
It 's just that sound is not that important for my work machine so I do n't really care.Then , all of a sudden it started to work .
It turned out that all I needed to do was reboot after updating ( kernel or something ) .
Lucky I had that client that did some nasty stuff with memory that required me to reboot .
I could n't remember the last time I rebooted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For weeks and weeks audio didn't work on my machine.
I tried all sorts of things.
Well, honestly, I did a two second search and tried one thing.
It's just that sound is not that important for my work machine so I don't really care.Then, all of a sudden it started to work.
It turned out that all I needed to do was reboot after updating (kernel or something).
Lucky I had that client that did some nasty stuff with memory that required me to reboot.
I couldn't remember the last time I rebooted.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29830377</id>
	<title>Re:Most "Features" Have Nothing To Do With Fedora</title>
	<author>AdamWill</author>
	<datestamp>1256129760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, most of the features described have been written mostly by Fedora contributors. The full release announcement text - <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12\_Beta\_Announcement" title="fedoraproject.org">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12\_Beta\_Announcement</a> [fedoraproject.org] - gives explicit credit for many of them.</p><p>Since it's Fedora's policy to contribute all possible work to upstream projects, of course other distributions benefit from this work. We don't play the game of having 'exclusive' features to trumpet in our distribution, we play the game of improving the F/OSS ecosystem for all. We don't really see that the fact that many other distributions will also benefit from this work doesn't mean they're important new features for Fedora users.</p><p>Of the features mentioned in the Slashdot story:</p><p>X.org improvements: Red Hat employee and Fedora project member Ben Skeggs is the major upstream contributor to the nouveau driver and implemented all the nouveau improvements described. Red Hat employees and Fedora project members Dave Airlie and Jerome Glisse are two of the major contributors to the ati/radeon driver and implemented many of the radeon improvements described. RH employees and FP members Adam Jackson and Kristian Hogsborg are major contributors to the intel driver. Adam and Dave also do substantial work on the X server itself and implemented the default support for multi-display spanning.</p><p>NetworkManager improvements: these were implemented by Red Hat employee and Fedora project member Dan Williams.</p><p>openfwwf: this is upstream work. We are, however, the first distribution to include it by default, as far as I'm aware (do correct me if I'm wrong).</p><p>Virtualization work: this is all contributed by the Red Hat employees and Fedora project members who make up the virtualization team, including Mark McLoughlin, Cole Robinson, and Justin Forbes.</p><p>Moblin integration: this is a co-operation between the Fedora project and the Moblin project. Fedora itself serves as part of the foundations of the upstream Moblin project (they do draw on other distributions as well for certain things).</p><p>GNOME Shell: maintainer and leading contributor is Red Hat employee and Fedora project member Owen Taylor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , most of the features described have been written mostly by Fedora contributors .
The full release announcement text - https : //fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12 \ _Beta \ _Announcement [ fedoraproject.org ] - gives explicit credit for many of them.Since it 's Fedora 's policy to contribute all possible work to upstream projects , of course other distributions benefit from this work .
We do n't play the game of having 'exclusive ' features to trumpet in our distribution , we play the game of improving the F/OSS ecosystem for all .
We do n't really see that the fact that many other distributions will also benefit from this work does n't mean they 're important new features for Fedora users.Of the features mentioned in the Slashdot story : X.org improvements : Red Hat employee and Fedora project member Ben Skeggs is the major upstream contributor to the nouveau driver and implemented all the nouveau improvements described .
Red Hat employees and Fedora project members Dave Airlie and Jerome Glisse are two of the major contributors to the ati/radeon driver and implemented many of the radeon improvements described .
RH employees and FP members Adam Jackson and Kristian Hogsborg are major contributors to the intel driver .
Adam and Dave also do substantial work on the X server itself and implemented the default support for multi-display spanning.NetworkManager improvements : these were implemented by Red Hat employee and Fedora project member Dan Williams.openfwwf : this is upstream work .
We are , however , the first distribution to include it by default , as far as I 'm aware ( do correct me if I 'm wrong ) .Virtualization work : this is all contributed by the Red Hat employees and Fedora project members who make up the virtualization team , including Mark McLoughlin , Cole Robinson , and Justin Forbes.Moblin integration : this is a co-operation between the Fedora project and the Moblin project .
Fedora itself serves as part of the foundations of the upstream Moblin project ( they do draw on other distributions as well for certain things ) .GNOME Shell : maintainer and leading contributor is Red Hat employee and Fedora project member Owen Taylor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, most of the features described have been written mostly by Fedora contributors.
The full release announcement text - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12\_Beta\_Announcement [fedoraproject.org] - gives explicit credit for many of them.Since it's Fedora's policy to contribute all possible work to upstream projects, of course other distributions benefit from this work.
We don't play the game of having 'exclusive' features to trumpet in our distribution, we play the game of improving the F/OSS ecosystem for all.
We don't really see that the fact that many other distributions will also benefit from this work doesn't mean they're important new features for Fedora users.Of the features mentioned in the Slashdot story:X.org improvements: Red Hat employee and Fedora project member Ben Skeggs is the major upstream contributor to the nouveau driver and implemented all the nouveau improvements described.
Red Hat employees and Fedora project members Dave Airlie and Jerome Glisse are two of the major contributors to the ati/radeon driver and implemented many of the radeon improvements described.
RH employees and FP members Adam Jackson and Kristian Hogsborg are major contributors to the intel driver.
Adam and Dave also do substantial work on the X server itself and implemented the default support for multi-display spanning.NetworkManager improvements: these were implemented by Red Hat employee and Fedora project member Dan Williams.openfwwf: this is upstream work.
We are, however, the first distribution to include it by default, as far as I'm aware (do correct me if I'm wrong).Virtualization work: this is all contributed by the Red Hat employees and Fedora project members who make up the virtualization team, including Mark McLoughlin, Cole Robinson, and Justin Forbes.Moblin integration: this is a co-operation between the Fedora project and the Moblin project.
Fedora itself serves as part of the foundations of the upstream Moblin project (they do draw on other distributions as well for certain things).GNOME Shell: maintainer and leading contributor is Red Hat employee and Fedora project member Owen Taylor.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828831</parent>
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<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29826911</id>
	<title>first</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1256154780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>POST!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>POST !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>POST!</sentencetext>
</comment>
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827217
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828839
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827049
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29835165
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827511
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29828217
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827195
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_21_1830257.29827311
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