<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_10_14_1912206</id>
	<title>3D Fingerprinting &mdash; Touchless, More Accurate, and Faster</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1255507200000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>kkleiner writes <i>"For all the glory it gets, the fingerprint has evolved very little in the last 60 years. They&rsquo;re still two dimensional. The US Department of Homeland Security and the National Institute of Justice are hoping to change that. They've given grants to dozens of companies to perfect <a href="http://singularityhub.com/2009/10/12/3d-fingerprinting-more-accurate-faster-touchless/">touchless 3D fingerprinting</a>. Two universities (University of Kentucky and Carnegie Mellon) and their two respective start-up companies (Flashscan 3D and TBS Holdings) have succeeded. Fingerprints have reached the third dimension and they are faster, more accurate, and touchless."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>kkleiner writes " For all the glory it gets , the fingerprint has evolved very little in the last 60 years .
They    re still two dimensional .
The US Department of Homeland Security and the National Institute of Justice are hoping to change that .
They 've given grants to dozens of companies to perfect touchless 3D fingerprinting .
Two universities ( University of Kentucky and Carnegie Mellon ) and their two respective start-up companies ( Flashscan 3D and TBS Holdings ) have succeeded .
Fingerprints have reached the third dimension and they are faster , more accurate , and touchless .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>kkleiner writes "For all the glory it gets, the fingerprint has evolved very little in the last 60 years.
They’re still two dimensional.
The US Department of Homeland Security and the National Institute of Justice are hoping to change that.
They've given grants to dozens of companies to perfect touchless 3D fingerprinting.
Two universities (University of Kentucky and Carnegie Mellon) and their two respective start-up companies (Flashscan 3D and TBS Holdings) have succeeded.
Fingerprints have reached the third dimension and they are faster, more accurate, and touchless.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29752039</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-fingerprinting technology</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255528380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I always thought the joke of that was that you are expecting some magical painless way for the removal of fingerprints. Instead the fingerprints just get burned off (quickly). The producers probably did not think too much of the joke because the movie, eh, just moves right over it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I always thought the joke of that was that you are expecting some magical painless way for the removal of fingerprints .
Instead the fingerprints just get burned off ( quickly ) .
The producers probably did not think too much of the joke because the movie , eh , just moves right over it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I always thought the joke of that was that you are expecting some magical painless way for the removal of fingerprints.
Instead the fingerprints just get burned off (quickly).
The producers probably did not think too much of the joke because the movie, eh, just moves right over it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749303</id>
	<title>Fingerprinting has never been scientifically valid</title>
	<author>spun</author>
	<datestamp>1255511580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I came here to either find or make this comment. Good job. Police and prosecutors build their careers on convictions. They have a vested interest in the public believing in the infallibility of fingerprinting. I find this paragraph from the <i>New Scientist</i> article to be key in understanding the controversy of fingerprinting:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>No one disputes that fingerprinting is a valuable and generally reliable police tool, but despite more than a century of use, fingerprinting has never been scientifically validated. This is significant because of the criteria governing the admission of scientific evidence in the US courts.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I came here to either find or make this comment .
Good job .
Police and prosecutors build their careers on convictions .
They have a vested interest in the public believing in the infallibility of fingerprinting .
I find this paragraph from the New Scientist article to be key in understanding the controversy of fingerprinting : No one disputes that fingerprinting is a valuable and generally reliable police tool , but despite more than a century of use , fingerprinting has never been scientifically validated .
This is significant because of the criteria governing the admission of scientific evidence in the US courts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I came here to either find or make this comment.
Good job.
Police and prosecutors build their careers on convictions.
They have a vested interest in the public believing in the infallibility of fingerprinting.
I find this paragraph from the New Scientist article to be key in understanding the controversy of fingerprinting:No one disputes that fingerprinting is a valuable and generally reliable police tool, but despite more than a century of use, fingerprinting has never been scientifically validated.
This is significant because of the criteria governing the admission of scientific evidence in the US courts.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749853</id>
	<title>Re:fingerprinting</title>
	<author>icebike</author>
	<datestamp>1255514040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There is probably no scientific evidence relied upon unquestionably, that has such serious issues regarding accuracy as fingerprinting.</p></div><p>If we were dealing with finger prints most of these issues would not arise.  However, when we deal with a set of numbers in a computer file that only have to match to a certain level of precision there are way too many points for error.</p><p>TFA lauds discusses 3D scanning and casts aspersions on pressing inked finger to card.</p><p>I consider 3D just another source of error.</p><p>After all, leaving a finger print involves pressure and leaves a 2D print.  What would be a better comparison than another 2D print made with typical pressure?</p><p>Mapping a 3D image to a 2D latent print opens the door for, and requires yet another layer of unproven technology.  Conviction by mathematicians is not the standard to which we adhere.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is probably no scientific evidence relied upon unquestionably , that has such serious issues regarding accuracy as fingerprinting.If we were dealing with finger prints most of these issues would not arise .
However , when we deal with a set of numbers in a computer file that only have to match to a certain level of precision there are way too many points for error.TFA lauds discusses 3D scanning and casts aspersions on pressing inked finger to card.I consider 3D just another source of error.After all , leaving a finger print involves pressure and leaves a 2D print .
What would be a better comparison than another 2D print made with typical pressure ? Mapping a 3D image to a 2D latent print opens the door for , and requires yet another layer of unproven technology .
Conviction by mathematicians is not the standard to which we adhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is probably no scientific evidence relied upon unquestionably, that has such serious issues regarding accuracy as fingerprinting.If we were dealing with finger prints most of these issues would not arise.
However, when we deal with a set of numbers in a computer file that only have to match to a certain level of precision there are way too many points for error.TFA lauds discusses 3D scanning and casts aspersions on pressing inked finger to card.I consider 3D just another source of error.After all, leaving a finger print involves pressure and leaves a 2D print.
What would be a better comparison than another 2D print made with typical pressure?Mapping a 3D image to a 2D latent print opens the door for, and requires yet another layer of unproven technology.
Conviction by mathematicians is not the standard to which we adhere.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749731</id>
	<title>Biometrics or Evidence?</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1255513560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This may be a great improvement for biomtric applications[1] but for comparing with prints lifted off objects at a crime scene you want flat prints.</p><p>[1] Though with a touchless system it's going to be a bit harder to make sure that's a real live finger.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This may be a great improvement for biomtric applications [ 1 ] but for comparing with prints lifted off objects at a crime scene you want flat prints .
[ 1 ] Though with a touchless system it 's going to be a bit harder to make sure that 's a real live finger .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This may be a great improvement for biomtric applications[1] but for comparing with prints lifted off objects at a crime scene you want flat prints.
[1] Though with a touchless system it's going to be a bit harder to make sure that's a real live finger.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749199</id>
	<title>fingerprinting</title>
	<author>nomadic</author>
	<datestamp>1255511100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is probably no scientific evidence relied upon unquestionably, that has such serious issues regarding accuracy as fingerprinting.  Check <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18725174.500-how-far-should-fingerprints-be-trusted.html" title="newscientist.com">this</a> [newscientist.com] out.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is probably no scientific evidence relied upon unquestionably , that has such serious issues regarding accuracy as fingerprinting .
Check this [ newscientist.com ] out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is probably no scientific evidence relied upon unquestionably, that has such serious issues regarding accuracy as fingerprinting.
Check this [newscientist.com] out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749393</id>
	<title>Re:Anti-fingerprinting technology</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255512000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A few coatings of cyanoacrylate does wonders, temporarily.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A few coatings of cyanoacrylate does wonders , temporarily .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A few coatings of cyanoacrylate does wonders, temporarily.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749983</id>
	<title>A tad more than 60 years...</title>
	<author>Forum-Matter</author>
	<datestamp>1255514700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree that the fingerprint has likely evolved very little in the last 60 years - perhaps hundreds of thousands of years!  However, the evolution of *fingerprinting* technology is more to the scale mentioned in the story.   Or, am I being too picky?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree that the fingerprint has likely evolved very little in the last 60 years - perhaps hundreds of thousands of years !
However , the evolution of * fingerprinting * technology is more to the scale mentioned in the story .
Or , am I being too picky ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree that the fingerprint has likely evolved very little in the last 60 years - perhaps hundreds of thousands of years!
However, the evolution of *fingerprinting* technology is more to the scale mentioned in the story.
Or, am I being too picky?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749173</id>
	<title>First Post</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255510980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>?<br>Maybe?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>? Maybe ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>?Maybe?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749437</id>
	<title>Not that useful for forensics?</title>
	<author>RKThoadan</author>
	<datestamp>1255512180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This might have some use in biometrics and identifying people who have already been scanned.  It doesn't seem like it could be that useful forensically since prints are left on 2D surfaces.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This might have some use in biometrics and identifying people who have already been scanned .
It does n't seem like it could be that useful forensically since prints are left on 2D surfaces .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This might have some use in biometrics and identifying people who have already been scanned.
It doesn't seem like it could be that useful forensically since prints are left on 2D surfaces.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29751151</id>
	<title>The real solution: Scrotum and vulva imaging</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255521420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Terrorism will remain a concern for the foreseeable future, and it is imperative we devise a proper means to distinguish friend from foe. The solution is, of course, a national, centralized database of 3D scans of all citizens' external genitalia. In a man's case, he would simply hold his penis up and spread his legs slightly to allow his scrotum to hang free while being scanned. In a woman's case, she would simply place one foot up on a step to allow the scanner full access.</p><p>Obviously such a system only works effectively if everyone wears chaps, skirts or kilts with no underwear. But this is a small price to pay for a little extra breeze, and a lot of security.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Terrorism will remain a concern for the foreseeable future , and it is imperative we devise a proper means to distinguish friend from foe .
The solution is , of course , a national , centralized database of 3D scans of all citizens ' external genitalia .
In a man 's case , he would simply hold his penis up and spread his legs slightly to allow his scrotum to hang free while being scanned .
In a woman 's case , she would simply place one foot up on a step to allow the scanner full access.Obviously such a system only works effectively if everyone wears chaps , skirts or kilts with no underwear .
But this is a small price to pay for a little extra breeze , and a lot of security .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Terrorism will remain a concern for the foreseeable future, and it is imperative we devise a proper means to distinguish friend from foe.
The solution is, of course, a national, centralized database of 3D scans of all citizens' external genitalia.
In a man's case, he would simply hold his penis up and spread his legs slightly to allow his scrotum to hang free while being scanned.
In a woman's case, she would simply place one foot up on a step to allow the scanner full access.Obviously such a system only works effectively if everyone wears chaps, skirts or kilts with no underwear.
But this is a small price to pay for a little extra breeze, and a lot of security.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749627</id>
	<title>UoK</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255513140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's a university in Kentucky? *rimshot*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's a university in Kentucky ?
* rimshot *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's a university in Kentucky?
*rimshot*</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749323</id>
	<title>That's great and all...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255511640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... but now identity theft will be even more painful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... but now identity theft will be even more painful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... but now identity theft will be even more painful.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29750355</id>
	<title>3D screen</title>
	<author>PhasmatisApparatus</author>
	<datestamp>1255516560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is obviously the first killer app for the 3D laptop: <a href="http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/10/14/1739214" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/10/14/1739214</a> [slashdot.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is obviously the first killer app for the 3D laptop : http : //hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl ? sid = 09/10/14/1739214 [ slashdot.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is obviously the first killer app for the 3D laptop: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/10/14/1739214 [slashdot.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749411</id>
	<title>Crime scene fingerprints are 2D!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255512060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>3D fingerprinting is really not necessary for most crime solving as those recovered from crime scenes are two dimensional.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>3D fingerprinting is really not necessary for most crime solving as those recovered from crime scenes are two dimensional .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>3D fingerprinting is really not necessary for most crime solving as those recovered from crime scenes are two dimensional.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749761</id>
	<title>False Negatives</title>
	<author>delta419</author>
	<datestamp>1255513680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Great, so all I have to do is soak my fingers in water for awhile.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Great , so all I have to do is soak my fingers in water for awhile .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Great, so all I have to do is soak my fingers in water for awhile.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29750561</id>
	<title>Re:Cost</title>
	<author>Sulphur</author>
	<datestamp>1255517880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There was a Sci Fi version of that called "Looker" <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/" title="imdb.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/</a> [imdb.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>There was a Sci Fi version of that called " Looker " http : //www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/ [ imdb.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There was a Sci Fi version of that called "Looker" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/ [imdb.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749619</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749887</id>
	<title>From TFA:</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1255514280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From TFA:</p><blockquote><div><p>To integrate with that database, Flashscan has special software to flatten the 3D print into 2D without cracks or stretches.</p></div></blockquote><p>They're able to flatten a 3D surface into 2D without stretching it? Quick, somebody notify the cartographers!</p><p>I wonder if this could also help me peel an orange without tearing the peeling...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>From TFA : To integrate with that database , Flashscan has special software to flatten the 3D print into 2D without cracks or stretches.They 're able to flatten a 3D surface into 2D without stretching it ?
Quick , somebody notify the cartographers ! I wonder if this could also help me peel an orange without tearing the peeling.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From TFA:To integrate with that database, Flashscan has special software to flatten the 3D print into 2D without cracks or stretches.They're able to flatten a 3D surface into 2D without stretching it?
Quick, somebody notify the cartographers!I wonder if this could also help me peel an orange without tearing the peeling...
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749945</id>
	<title>Re:Cost</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1255514580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; The article did not say the price, unless I missed it, but I can say its<br>&gt; going to be a hell of alot more than a bit of ink and a piece of paper. And<br>&gt; what is the point? Fingerprints on stuff are already 2D, why do we need to<br>&gt; check 2D against 3D?</p><p>Speed and accuracy.  The market is biometrics, not CSI.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; The article did not say the price , unless I missed it , but I can say its &gt; going to be a hell of alot more than a bit of ink and a piece of paper .
And &gt; what is the point ?
Fingerprints on stuff are already 2D , why do we need to &gt; check 2D against 3D ? Speed and accuracy .
The market is biometrics , not CSI .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; The article did not say the price, unless I missed it, but I can say its&gt; going to be a hell of alot more than a bit of ink and a piece of paper.
And&gt; what is the point?
Fingerprints on stuff are already 2D, why do we need to&gt; check 2D against 3D?Speed and accuracy.
The market is biometrics, not CSI.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749423</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29756703</id>
	<title>Re:Cost</title>
	<author>jhfry</author>
	<datestamp>1255619100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ink and paper is going away, slowly but surely.</p><p>I support a handful of optical fingerprint machines, that cost upwards of $5000/ scanner.</p><p>This so called 3-D scanner is simply going to be a very precise laser range finder that scans like a barcode reader.  I would imagine that it will be cheaper to manufacture (who knows what the R&amp;D costs will be) but there are significant advantages to this method.</p><p>They aren't really interested in the depth, only in sensing where the ridges begin and end... instead of using a finger pressed against something (paper, or glass) to infer where the ridges and valleys are, they will actually measure them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ink and paper is going away , slowly but surely.I support a handful of optical fingerprint machines , that cost upwards of $ 5000/ scanner.This so called 3-D scanner is simply going to be a very precise laser range finder that scans like a barcode reader .
I would imagine that it will be cheaper to manufacture ( who knows what the R&amp;D costs will be ) but there are significant advantages to this method.They are n't really interested in the depth , only in sensing where the ridges begin and end... instead of using a finger pressed against something ( paper , or glass ) to infer where the ridges and valleys are , they will actually measure them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ink and paper is going away, slowly but surely.I support a handful of optical fingerprint machines, that cost upwards of $5000/ scanner.This so called 3-D scanner is simply going to be a very precise laser range finder that scans like a barcode reader.
I would imagine that it will be cheaper to manufacture (who knows what the R&amp;D costs will be) but there are significant advantages to this method.They aren't really interested in the depth, only in sensing where the ridges begin and end... instead of using a finger pressed against something (paper, or glass) to infer where the ridges and valleys are, they will actually measure them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749423</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749269</id>
	<title>Anti-fingerprinting technology</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255511460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fingerprinting technology is only useful to the man, for keeping you down.<br>Ever since Men in black, I have been waiting for the shiny fingerprint removing sphere.</p><p>Where the hell is it! And where's my flying car.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fingerprinting technology is only useful to the man , for keeping you down.Ever since Men in black , I have been waiting for the shiny fingerprint removing sphere.Where the hell is it !
And where 's my flying car .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fingerprinting technology is only useful to the man, for keeping you down.Ever since Men in black, I have been waiting for the shiny fingerprint removing sphere.Where the hell is it!
And where's my flying car.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749423</id>
	<title>Cost</title>
	<author>Conchobair</author>
	<datestamp>1255512120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The article did not say the price, unless I missed it, but I can say its going to be a hell of  alot more than a bit of ink and a piece of paper.

And what is the point?  Fingerprints on stuff are already 2D, why do we need to check 2D against 3D?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The article did not say the price , unless I missed it , but I can say its going to be a hell of alot more than a bit of ink and a piece of paper .
And what is the point ?
Fingerprints on stuff are already 2D , why do we need to check 2D against 3D ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article did not say the price, unless I missed it, but I can say its going to be a hell of  alot more than a bit of ink and a piece of paper.
And what is the point?
Fingerprints on stuff are already 2D, why do we need to check 2D against 3D?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29750993</id>
	<title>Gummi fingers?</title>
	<author>MacTenchi</author>
	<datestamp>1255520520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The real question for me is, are these things less susceptible to gummi / jello fingers than 2D scanners?  Seems like they would be equally susceptible, and therefore equally weak as a door lock.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The real question for me is , are these things less susceptible to gummi / jello fingers than 2D scanners ?
Seems like they would be equally susceptible , and therefore equally weak as a door lock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The real question for me is, are these things less susceptible to gummi / jello fingers than 2D scanners?
Seems like they would be equally susceptible, and therefore equally weak as a door lock.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29759587</id>
	<title>Re:Biometrics or Evidence?</title>
	<author>clone53421</author>
	<datestamp>1255631220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>[1] Though with a touchless system it's going to be a bit harder to make sure that's a real live finger.</p></div><p>It's going to make it easier, not harder. You won't be able to trick it with 2D copies of the fingerprint you're trying to present, you'll have to have an actual 3D copy of the fingerprint.</p><p>The bolt cutter hack would still work, as the other guy suggested, but it would be harder to surreptitiously copy someone's fingerprint in 3D than it is to get it in 2D (off their glass, if the movies are to be believed).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ 1 ] Though with a touchless system it 's going to be a bit harder to make sure that 's a real live finger.It 's going to make it easier , not harder .
You wo n't be able to trick it with 2D copies of the fingerprint you 're trying to present , you 'll have to have an actual 3D copy of the fingerprint.The bolt cutter hack would still work , as the other guy suggested , but it would be harder to surreptitiously copy someone 's fingerprint in 3D than it is to get it in 2D ( off their glass , if the movies are to be believed ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[1] Though with a touchless system it's going to be a bit harder to make sure that's a real live finger.It's going to make it easier, not harder.
You won't be able to trick it with 2D copies of the fingerprint you're trying to present, you'll have to have an actual 3D copy of the fingerprint.The bolt cutter hack would still work, as the other guy suggested, but it would be harder to surreptitiously copy someone's fingerprint in 3D than it is to get it in 2D (off their glass, if the movies are to be believed).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749731</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749375</id>
	<title>Am I the only one...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255512000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>that doesn't see any real improvement over the old method? Strikes me as a solution waiting for a problem. Sometimes, the good ways are the old ways. <i>sometimes.</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>that does n't see any real improvement over the old method ?
Strikes me as a solution waiting for a problem .
Sometimes , the good ways are the old ways .
sometimes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that doesn't see any real improvement over the old method?
Strikes me as a solution waiting for a problem.
Sometimes, the good ways are the old ways.
sometimes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749619</id>
	<title>Re:Cost</title>
	<author>WaywardGeek</author>
	<datestamp>1255513080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every optical mouse has both a light source and a digital camera, yet they cost $20.  A 3-D fingerprint scanner requires probably one extra camera.  If they build 100 per year, they'll cost thousands of dollars.  If they build a million, they'll be under $100.</p><p>I started a company doing EDA and ASIC IP, but at the time, my favorite second alternative (back in 1999), was building a 3-D scanner out of 2 digital cameras and some software.  I wanted to scan women so they could load a fairly accurate body shape onto an online avatar, and preview how clothing would look on them.  Now, for best results, the ladies would need to spin naked in front of the device.  I was really looking forward to debugging that technology<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every optical mouse has both a light source and a digital camera , yet they cost $ 20 .
A 3-D fingerprint scanner requires probably one extra camera .
If they build 100 per year , they 'll cost thousands of dollars .
If they build a million , they 'll be under $ 100.I started a company doing EDA and ASIC IP , but at the time , my favorite second alternative ( back in 1999 ) , was building a 3-D scanner out of 2 digital cameras and some software .
I wanted to scan women so they could load a fairly accurate body shape onto an online avatar , and preview how clothing would look on them .
Now , for best results , the ladies would need to spin naked in front of the device .
I was really looking forward to debugging that technology : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every optical mouse has both a light source and a digital camera, yet they cost $20.
A 3-D fingerprint scanner requires probably one extra camera.
If they build 100 per year, they'll cost thousands of dollars.
If they build a million, they'll be under $100.I started a company doing EDA and ASIC IP, but at the time, my favorite second alternative (back in 1999), was building a 3-D scanner out of 2 digital cameras and some software.
I wanted to scan women so they could load a fairly accurate body shape onto an online avatar, and preview how clothing would look on them.
Now, for best results, the ladies would need to spin naked in front of the device.
I was really looking forward to debugging that technology :-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749423</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749769</id>
	<title>Re:Cost</title>
	<author>Ohrion</author>
	<datestamp>1255513740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's useful for biometrics. Like for security, not for suspect identification...</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's useful for biometrics .
Like for security , not for suspect identification.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's useful for biometrics.
Like for security, not for suspect identification...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749423</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749253</id>
	<title>touchless and 3D</title>
	<author>parallel\_prankster</author>
	<datestamp>1255511400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why are we talking about fingerprinting with these 2 words ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why are we talking about fingerprinting with these 2 words ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why are we talking about fingerprinting with these 2 words ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29750141</id>
	<title>Fingerprinting</title>
	<author>Archangel Michael</author>
	<datestamp>1255515540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I pick my nose before I get my finger prints done, in front of the fingerprint tech. This new development is going to cramp my style.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I pick my nose before I get my finger prints done , in front of the fingerprint tech .
This new development is going to cramp my style .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I pick my nose before I get my finger prints done, in front of the fingerprint tech.
This new development is going to cramp my style.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749857</id>
	<title>Give it another 100,000 years.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255514100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; For all the glory it gets, the fingerprint has evolved very little in the<br>&gt; last 60 years.</p><p>Is there a type of fingerprint that has a selective advantage?  I would think you'd do better with ones like everyone else's.  Perhaps after 2000 generations of CSI we'll all have identical prints.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; For all the glory it gets , the fingerprint has evolved very little in the &gt; last 60 years.Is there a type of fingerprint that has a selective advantage ?
I would think you 'd do better with ones like everyone else 's .
Perhaps after 2000 generations of CSI we 'll all have identical prints .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; For all the glory it gets, the fingerprint has evolved very little in the&gt; last 60 years.Is there a type of fingerprint that has a selective advantage?
I would think you'd do better with ones like everyone else's.
Perhaps after 2000 generations of CSI we'll all have identical prints.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749211</id>
	<title>Great!  Now I can be fingerprinted passively!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1255511160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What comes next is the equivalent of when police drive down the street and scan license plates.  You can be walking down the street and your finger gets scanned and a cop just grabs you off the street and arrests you for unpaid parking tickets.</p><p>I'm SO glad this vital security measure will be in place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What comes next is the equivalent of when police drive down the street and scan license plates .
You can be walking down the street and your finger gets scanned and a cop just grabs you off the street and arrests you for unpaid parking tickets.I 'm SO glad this vital security measure will be in place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What comes next is the equivalent of when police drive down the street and scan license plates.
You can be walking down the street and your finger gets scanned and a cop just grabs you off the street and arrests you for unpaid parking tickets.I'm SO glad this vital security measure will be in place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29751669</id>
	<title>Re:fingerprinting</title>
	<author>aj50</author>
	<datestamp>1255525860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My personal anecdote about the unreliability of fingerprint scanning comes from the Science Museum in London.</p><p>When I was there several years ago, they had an interactive creative exhibit where you could save your creations by identifying yourself using your fingerprint. I had to go through four fingers before I found one which wasn't incorrectly identified as belonging to someone else.</p><p>While this is only an anecdote and the fingerprint scanning system was designed for a relatively unimportant scenario and probably matched against a large number of fingerprints it has always made me wonder about the uniqueness of fingerprints.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My personal anecdote about the unreliability of fingerprint scanning comes from the Science Museum in London.When I was there several years ago , they had an interactive creative exhibit where you could save your creations by identifying yourself using your fingerprint .
I had to go through four fingers before I found one which was n't incorrectly identified as belonging to someone else.While this is only an anecdote and the fingerprint scanning system was designed for a relatively unimportant scenario and probably matched against a large number of fingerprints it has always made me wonder about the uniqueness of fingerprints .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My personal anecdote about the unreliability of fingerprint scanning comes from the Science Museum in London.When I was there several years ago, they had an interactive creative exhibit where you could save your creations by identifying yourself using your fingerprint.
I had to go through four fingers before I found one which wasn't incorrectly identified as belonging to someone else.While this is only an anecdote and the fingerprint scanning system was designed for a relatively unimportant scenario and probably matched against a large number of fingerprints it has always made me wonder about the uniqueness of fingerprints.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29750509</id>
	<title>Re:From TFA:</title>
	<author>Bigjeff5</author>
	<datestamp>1255517520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's not that hard, really.  It takes some care but all you really need to do is separate the peal from the orange before removing the peal from around the orange.  This can be done by creating an incision down one side of the orange and working a "bubble" of peal around the orange.  Once you've separated the peal, simply slide the orange through the cut you made down the side and there you go.</p><p>Now, the hard part is flattening it out without tearing it.</p><p>I'm sure you realize, however, when a person leaves a fingerprint you aren't seing the entire surface of the finger, stretched and flattened on a 2d surface.  What you are seeing is the outermost contact points of a slightly squishy 3d object.  That shouldn't be too hard to replicate, and there certainly isn't a whole lot of cracking or stretching involved.</p><p>Take a heavy ruber ball and fill it 4/5 with water and see how much it stretches - it's negligible.  Squishing the heavy rubber ball is about how your fingers react, and shouldn't be all that hard to replicate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's not that hard , really .
It takes some care but all you really need to do is separate the peal from the orange before removing the peal from around the orange .
This can be done by creating an incision down one side of the orange and working a " bubble " of peal around the orange .
Once you 've separated the peal , simply slide the orange through the cut you made down the side and there you go.Now , the hard part is flattening it out without tearing it.I 'm sure you realize , however , when a person leaves a fingerprint you are n't seing the entire surface of the finger , stretched and flattened on a 2d surface .
What you are seeing is the outermost contact points of a slightly squishy 3d object .
That should n't be too hard to replicate , and there certainly is n't a whole lot of cracking or stretching involved.Take a heavy ruber ball and fill it 4/5 with water and see how much it stretches - it 's negligible .
Squishing the heavy rubber ball is about how your fingers react , and should n't be all that hard to replicate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's not that hard, really.
It takes some care but all you really need to do is separate the peal from the orange before removing the peal from around the orange.
This can be done by creating an incision down one side of the orange and working a "bubble" of peal around the orange.
Once you've separated the peal, simply slide the orange through the cut you made down the side and there you go.Now, the hard part is flattening it out without tearing it.I'm sure you realize, however, when a person leaves a fingerprint you aren't seing the entire surface of the finger, stretched and flattened on a 2d surface.
What you are seeing is the outermost contact points of a slightly squishy 3d object.
That shouldn't be too hard to replicate, and there certainly isn't a whole lot of cracking or stretching involved.Take a heavy ruber ball and fill it 4/5 with water and see how much it stretches - it's negligible.
Squishing the heavy rubber ball is about how your fingers react, and shouldn't be all that hard to replicate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29749887</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_10_14_1912206.29784521</id>
	<title>Glory? What glory?</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1255883640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whose cool-aid are you drinking? Everybody who is not a total retard, knows how much of a useless security theater it is.</p><p>For thieves there are this incredible modern device called...I think... "gloves".<br>For fingerprint scanners of the current generation, you can always take the fingerprint off a mug or glass (e.g. at a coffeehouse or bar). With a simple Tesa strip. Happened exactly like that with the German interior minister.</p><p>And no matter what, you can always just cut off his/her finger, and attach it to a small pump for warm liquid. Or do the same to a fake copy of the finger. Just ask a movie makeup artist, or the guys from Mythbusters. If there's enough money in it to be worth it, there is always a way.</p><p>And why? Because it lacks the third component of "who you are, what you have, and what you know". The <em>password</em>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whose cool-aid are you drinking ?
Everybody who is not a total retard , knows how much of a useless security theater it is.For thieves there are this incredible modern device called...I think... " gloves " .For fingerprint scanners of the current generation , you can always take the fingerprint off a mug or glass ( e.g .
at a coffeehouse or bar ) .
With a simple Tesa strip .
Happened exactly like that with the German interior minister.And no matter what , you can always just cut off his/her finger , and attach it to a small pump for warm liquid .
Or do the same to a fake copy of the finger .
Just ask a movie makeup artist , or the guys from Mythbusters .
If there 's enough money in it to be worth it , there is always a way.And why ?
Because it lacks the third component of " who you are , what you have , and what you know " .
The password .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whose cool-aid are you drinking?
Everybody who is not a total retard, knows how much of a useless security theater it is.For thieves there are this incredible modern device called...I think... "gloves".For fingerprint scanners of the current generation, you can always take the fingerprint off a mug or glass (e.g.
at a coffeehouse or bar).
With a simple Tesa strip.
Happened exactly like that with the German interior minister.And no matter what, you can always just cut off his/her finger, and attach it to a small pump for warm liquid.
Or do the same to a fake copy of the finger.
Just ask a movie makeup artist, or the guys from Mythbusters.
If there's enough money in it to be worth it, there is always a way.And why?
Because it lacks the third component of "who you are, what you have, and what you know".
The password.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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