<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_11_2124218</id>
	<title>How To Teach Programming To Kids, Via XBox</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1247305020000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"Chris Wilson reviews Kodu, the <a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2222546/">new XBox game that he calls 'Logo on Steroids.'</a> The game allows you to build a world and program every object in it with an in-house graphical language, making the game a primitive example of 'reactive state machines' in a 'multi-agent concurrent system.' It sounds like what we call 'application specific integrated circuits' in engineering, where every line of code runs in parallel."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " Chris Wilson reviews Kodu , the new XBox game that he calls 'Logo on Steroids .
' The game allows you to build a world and program every object in it with an in-house graphical language , making the game a primitive example of 'reactive state machines ' in a 'multi-agent concurrent system .
' It sounds like what we call 'application specific integrated circuits ' in engineering , where every line of code runs in parallel .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "Chris Wilson reviews Kodu, the new XBox game that he calls 'Logo on Steroids.
' The game allows you to build a world and program every object in it with an in-house graphical language, making the game a primitive example of 'reactive state machines' in a 'multi-agent concurrent system.
' It sounds like what we call 'application specific integrated circuits' in engineering, where every line of code runs in parallel.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663859</id>
	<title>Re:programming without typing?</title>
	<author>greenskyx</author>
	<datestamp>1247312160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sweet. I started on a TI-82 sometime around then too. My first program was a Russian roulette program where the user had to pick 1-6 and if they picked the wrong number they died. Since I didn't know how to generate a random number, I hard coded the "kill" number in. After I figured out how to generate a random number I didn't look back. I agree, give coders a language/environment they can easily jump into and they will get it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sweet .
I started on a TI-82 sometime around then too .
My first program was a Russian roulette program where the user had to pick 1-6 and if they picked the wrong number they died .
Since I did n't know how to generate a random number , I hard coded the " kill " number in .
After I figured out how to generate a random number I did n't look back .
I agree , give coders a language/environment they can easily jump into and they will get it .
: D</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sweet.
I started on a TI-82 sometime around then too.
My first program was a Russian roulette program where the user had to pick 1-6 and if they picked the wrong number they died.
Since I didn't know how to generate a random number, I hard coded the "kill" number in.
After I figured out how to generate a random number I didn't look back.
I agree, give coders a language/environment they can easily jump into and they will get it.
:D</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663439</id>
	<title>adults?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247308620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is actually quite interesting. First time I came across state machines was in Max Payne level editor, which was something fantastic for a creator-minded / "lets try out what this shit can do" person like me. Now I'm mainly a programmer / game developer, but I always love to mess around with things and create fun things quickly just to see what they can do.</p><p>Too bad its mainly made for kids, there's not enough such toys for us adults<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) However just out of the interest I guess I'll be getting this anyways (yeah, obviously for my kids that will born in ~5 years)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is actually quite interesting .
First time I came across state machines was in Max Payne level editor , which was something fantastic for a creator-minded / " lets try out what this shit can do " person like me .
Now I 'm mainly a programmer / game developer , but I always love to mess around with things and create fun things quickly just to see what they can do.Too bad its mainly made for kids , there 's not enough such toys for us adults : ) However just out of the interest I guess I 'll be getting this anyways ( yeah , obviously for my kids that will born in ~ 5 years )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is actually quite interesting.
First time I came across state machines was in Max Payne level editor, which was something fantastic for a creator-minded / "lets try out what this shit can do" person like me.
Now I'm mainly a programmer / game developer, but I always love to mess around with things and create fun things quickly just to see what they can do.Too bad its mainly made for kids, there's not enough such toys for us adults :) However just out of the interest I guess I'll be getting this anyways (yeah, obviously for my kids that will born in ~5 years)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28665667</id>
	<title>Logo was great for it's time</title>
	<author>P0ltergeist333</author>
	<datestamp>1247338920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Logo was great for it's time, and so is this. Anything that makes interfaces and / or programming more intuitive is great in my book. If nothing else it will hopefully get people (including possibly the next generation of programmers and engineers) more cognizant of user interfaces in general. I think usability and quality of interface on both HW and SW has often taken a back seat in many industries to varying degrees (consumer electronics and automobiles come to mind specifically).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Logo was great for it 's time , and so is this .
Anything that makes interfaces and / or programming more intuitive is great in my book .
If nothing else it will hopefully get people ( including possibly the next generation of programmers and engineers ) more cognizant of user interfaces in general .
I think usability and quality of interface on both HW and SW has often taken a back seat in many industries to varying degrees ( consumer electronics and automobiles come to mind specifically ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Logo was great for it's time, and so is this.
Anything that makes interfaces and / or programming more intuitive is great in my book.
If nothing else it will hopefully get people (including possibly the next generation of programmers and engineers) more cognizant of user interfaces in general.
I think usability and quality of interface on both HW and SW has often taken a back seat in many industries to varying degrees (consumer electronics and automobiles come to mind specifically).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663899</id>
	<title>Re:programming without typing?</title>
	<author>Valtor</author>
	<datestamp>1247312400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My first program was on a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore\_VIC-20" title="wikipedia.org">Commodore VIC-20</a> [wikipedia.org] in 1981, I was 8 years old at the time.</p><p>10 PRINT "HELLO ";<br>20 GOTO 10</p><p>What happened when I ran it just blew my mind and brought me 28 years later where I am now.  Instead of wanting to be a fireman or a policeman like every other boys, I wanted to work with computers for a living.  Great memories.</p><p>I think, a simple interactive language like that is still the best way for a child to learn how to program.</p><p>Valtor</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My first program was on a Commodore VIC-20 [ wikipedia.org ] in 1981 , I was 8 years old at the time.10 PRINT " HELLO " ; 20 GOTO 10What happened when I ran it just blew my mind and brought me 28 years later where I am now .
Instead of wanting to be a fireman or a policeman like every other boys , I wanted to work with computers for a living .
Great memories.I think , a simple interactive language like that is still the best way for a child to learn how to program.Valtor</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My first program was on a Commodore VIC-20 [wikipedia.org] in 1981, I was 8 years old at the time.10 PRINT "HELLO ";20 GOTO 10What happened when I ran it just blew my mind and brought me 28 years later where I am now.
Instead of wanting to be a fireman or a policeman like every other boys, I wanted to work with computers for a living.
Great memories.I think, a simple interactive language like that is still the best way for a child to learn how to program.Valtor</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663675</id>
	<title>My First Programming</title>
	<author>Cillian</author>
	<datestamp>1247310360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My first real encounter with programming was The Games Factory and later multimedia fusion from ClickTeam - it did a darned good job of teaching the concepts of programming, while being easy enough to get something very decent quickly and easily, but being multipurpose enough to be surprisingly useful (Multimedia Fusion along with MooSock and a little creativity was sufficient to crash remote windows machines running a particular firewall software...)
<br>
I was later taught a tad of VBS inside access by a friend, and moved onto VB5, and reluctantly VB6.  A lot more powerful, not quite as easy and fun though.
<br>
I then taught myself C and later C++ from scratch by Sams' books.  I never really got the hang of programming for the windows API or any particular GUI toolkit, but I've latched onto the core of the language more and learnt to love embedded programming in C and assembler (Microchip PICs).
<br>
So, for anybody with young kids showing an interest in that sort of thing, I can recommend Clickteam's stuff, and Sams' books if they want to get more serious (Although the Sams' books teach the ANSI standard and stuff very well, they lack any information on system libraries which would be needed to actually do anything useful, so bear in mind, until you read up on that, you are going to be seeing an awful lot of the command prompt.  Without the means to do anything really useful like graphics / networking, I can see a lot of people quickly losing interest.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>My first real encounter with programming was The Games Factory and later multimedia fusion from ClickTeam - it did a darned good job of teaching the concepts of programming , while being easy enough to get something very decent quickly and easily , but being multipurpose enough to be surprisingly useful ( Multimedia Fusion along with MooSock and a little creativity was sufficient to crash remote windows machines running a particular firewall software... ) I was later taught a tad of VBS inside access by a friend , and moved onto VB5 , and reluctantly VB6 .
A lot more powerful , not quite as easy and fun though .
I then taught myself C and later C + + from scratch by Sams ' books .
I never really got the hang of programming for the windows API or any particular GUI toolkit , but I 've latched onto the core of the language more and learnt to love embedded programming in C and assembler ( Microchip PICs ) .
So , for anybody with young kids showing an interest in that sort of thing , I can recommend Clickteam 's stuff , and Sams ' books if they want to get more serious ( Although the Sams ' books teach the ANSI standard and stuff very well , they lack any information on system libraries which would be needed to actually do anything useful , so bear in mind , until you read up on that , you are going to be seeing an awful lot of the command prompt .
Without the means to do anything really useful like graphics / networking , I can see a lot of people quickly losing interest .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My first real encounter with programming was The Games Factory and later multimedia fusion from ClickTeam - it did a darned good job of teaching the concepts of programming, while being easy enough to get something very decent quickly and easily, but being multipurpose enough to be surprisingly useful (Multimedia Fusion along with MooSock and a little creativity was sufficient to crash remote windows machines running a particular firewall software...)

I was later taught a tad of VBS inside access by a friend, and moved onto VB5, and reluctantly VB6.
A lot more powerful, not quite as easy and fun though.
I then taught myself C and later C++ from scratch by Sams' books.
I never really got the hang of programming for the windows API or any particular GUI toolkit, but I've latched onto the core of the language more and learnt to love embedded programming in C and assembler (Microchip PICs).
So, for anybody with young kids showing an interest in that sort of thing, I can recommend Clickteam's stuff, and Sams' books if they want to get more serious (Although the Sams' books teach the ANSI standard and stuff very well, they lack any information on system libraries which would be needed to actually do anything useful, so bear in mind, until you read up on that, you are going to be seeing an awful lot of the command prompt.
Without the means to do anything really useful like graphics / networking, I can see a lot of people quickly losing interest.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28667613</id>
	<title>Re:Teaches game logic, not programming</title>
	<author>revlayle</author>
	<datestamp>1247416920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>You make programming sound like some elitist club that only a few can joined and only if they do it the right way.  I would say programming is totally useless with the ability to do any sort of logic processing.  <br> <br>
Any tool that allows to execute some arbitrary set of rules on a computing platform based on a series of log process would constitute as programming to me.  Syntax is truly just semantics here.  "Strict syntax"?? -  are you a Python programmer or something? (sorry... some languages are just not strict, well, to me - esp. those with no type safety, I would argue the language at that moment, would be pretty lax)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)  What is to say a visual programming language could not exist and be, ultimately just as powerful as anything with "keywords" and symbols to define branches, loops and entities?<br> <br>
This tool the article talks about may not be it... yet.  Who is to say it couldn't evolve into such a tool that dwarfed many "traditional" languages in capabilities.<br> <br>
Any tool - text-based, graphic-based, hell, anything-based that could provide an excellent programming/development platform would be interesting to me.  Any on that can teach logic AND programming at the same time would be beyond awesome.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You make programming sound like some elitist club that only a few can joined and only if they do it the right way .
I would say programming is totally useless with the ability to do any sort of logic processing .
Any tool that allows to execute some arbitrary set of rules on a computing platform based on a series of log process would constitute as programming to me .
Syntax is truly just semantics here .
" Strict syntax " ? ?
- are you a Python programmer or something ?
( sorry... some languages are just not strict , well , to me - esp .
those with no type safety , I would argue the language at that moment , would be pretty lax ) ; ) What is to say a visual programming language could not exist and be , ultimately just as powerful as anything with " keywords " and symbols to define branches , loops and entities ?
This tool the article talks about may not be it... yet. Who is to say it could n't evolve into such a tool that dwarfed many " traditional " languages in capabilities .
Any tool - text-based , graphic-based , hell , anything-based that could provide an excellent programming/development platform would be interesting to me .
Any on that can teach logic AND programming at the same time would be beyond awesome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You make programming sound like some elitist club that only a few can joined and only if they do it the right way.
I would say programming is totally useless with the ability to do any sort of logic processing.
Any tool that allows to execute some arbitrary set of rules on a computing platform based on a series of log process would constitute as programming to me.
Syntax is truly just semantics here.
"Strict syntax"??
-  are you a Python programmer or something?
(sorry... some languages are just not strict, well, to me - esp.
those with no type safety, I would argue the language at that moment, would be pretty lax) ;)  What is to say a visual programming language could not exist and be, ultimately just as powerful as anything with "keywords" and symbols to define branches, loops and entities?
This tool the article talks about may not be it... yet.  Who is to say it couldn't evolve into such a tool that dwarfed many "traditional" languages in capabilities.
Any tool - text-based, graphic-based, hell, anything-based that could provide an excellent programming/development platform would be interesting to me.
Any on that can teach logic AND programming at the same time would be beyond awesome.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28666531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663921</id>
	<title>Re:programming without typing?</title>
	<author>brasselv</author>
	<datestamp>1247312640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>if you were using basic or basica, as i believe, your first program would have not come with a syntax error.<br>it would have printed a 0 [zero].</p><p>(now, if you moderated this comment as redundant, i would understand and agree. i just could not resist...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if you were using basic or basica , as i believe , your first program would have not come with a syntax error.it would have printed a 0 [ zero ] .
( now , if you moderated this comment as redundant , i would understand and agree .
i just could not resist... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if you were using basic or basica, as i believe, your first program would have not come with a syntax error.it would have printed a 0 [zero].
(now, if you moderated this comment as redundant, i would understand and agree.
i just could not resist...)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663845</id>
	<title>Need reading glasses</title>
	<author>HangingChad</author>
	<datestamp>1247312040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I first read the article title as How To Program Kids Via XBOX.

</p><p>That would have gotten me right into console gaming.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I first read the article title as How To Program Kids Via XBOX .
That would have gotten me right into console gaming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I first read the article title as How To Program Kids Via XBOX.
That would have gotten me right into console gaming.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663943</id>
	<title>Little Big Planet Calculator</title>
	<author>miggyb</author>
	<datestamp>1247312760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know about Xbox, but if the kids have a PS3, I would just get them Little Big Planet

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiRgYBHoAoU&amp;feature=PlayList&amp;p=3E0EC424B446242F&amp;playnext=1&amp;playnext\_from=PL&amp;index=8" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiRgYBHoAoU&amp;feature=PlayList&amp;p=3E0EC424B446242F&amp;playnext=1&amp;playnext\_from=PL&amp;index=8</a> [youtube.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about Xbox , but if the kids have a PS3 , I would just get them Little Big Planet http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = ZiRgYBHoAoU&amp;feature = PlayList&amp;p = 3E0EC424B446242F&amp;playnext = 1&amp;playnext \ _from = PL&amp;index = 8 [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about Xbox, but if the kids have a PS3, I would just get them Little Big Planet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiRgYBHoAoU&amp;feature=PlayList&amp;p=3E0EC424B446242F&amp;playnext=1&amp;playnext\_from=PL&amp;index=8 [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663625</id>
	<title>Re:This isn't programming.</title>
	<author>FiveDozenWhales</author>
	<datestamp>1247309940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's elementary programming--as TFA states, you define rules for the behavior of objects and the interactions between objects.<br> <br>
While this certainly isn't as nitty-gritty as Logo, it still introduces kids to the ideas of determining conditions, and processes to undergo under those conditions, a very important concept in programming.  It also introduces them to an object-oriented environment.<br> <br>
Maybe it doesn't "teach programming to kids," but with any luck it will get them interested and excited enough about this kind of thing to pursue it academically... and maybe even give them a very basic foundation of skills.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's elementary programming--as TFA states , you define rules for the behavior of objects and the interactions between objects .
While this certainly is n't as nitty-gritty as Logo , it still introduces kids to the ideas of determining conditions , and processes to undergo under those conditions , a very important concept in programming .
It also introduces them to an object-oriented environment .
Maybe it does n't " teach programming to kids , " but with any luck it will get them interested and excited enough about this kind of thing to pursue it academically... and maybe even give them a very basic foundation of skills .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's elementary programming--as TFA states, you define rules for the behavior of objects and the interactions between objects.
While this certainly isn't as nitty-gritty as Logo, it still introduces kids to the ideas of determining conditions, and processes to undergo under those conditions, a very important concept in programming.
It also introduces them to an object-oriented environment.
Maybe it doesn't "teach programming to kids," but with any luck it will get them interested and excited enough about this kind of thing to pursue it academically... and maybe even give them a very basic foundation of skills.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664701</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Yuk!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247321940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Communist huh? How's that working out for you Castro?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Communist huh ?
How 's that working out for you Castro ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Communist huh?
How's that working out for you Castro?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28668725</id>
	<title>Re:Teaches game logic, not programming</title>
	<author>aj50</author>
	<datestamp>1247427480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That finely crafted UI is a strict syntax, it's just designed in such a way that you can't write anything invalid.</p><p>Is there really any difference between typing the keyword FORWARD followed by the argument 10 and dragging a FORWARD block and then moving a slider?</p><p>Personally I'd say it's analogous to the difference between a menu driven GUI and a command line. Both can accomplish the same things but the GUI might be more discoverable and thus easier to learn whereas the command line lets you get things done more quickly.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That finely crafted UI is a strict syntax , it 's just designed in such a way that you ca n't write anything invalid.Is there really any difference between typing the keyword FORWARD followed by the argument 10 and dragging a FORWARD block and then moving a slider ? Personally I 'd say it 's analogous to the difference between a menu driven GUI and a command line .
Both can accomplish the same things but the GUI might be more discoverable and thus easier to learn whereas the command line lets you get things done more quickly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That finely crafted UI is a strict syntax, it's just designed in such a way that you can't write anything invalid.Is there really any difference between typing the keyword FORWARD followed by the argument 10 and dragging a FORWARD block and then moving a slider?Personally I'd say it's analogous to the difference between a menu driven GUI and a command line.
Both can accomplish the same things but the GUI might be more discoverable and thus easier to learn whereas the command line lets you get things done more quickly.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28666531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664141</id>
	<title>Re:adults?</title>
	<author>TheGothicGuardian</author>
	<datestamp>1247314740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>for my kids that will born in ~5 years</p></div><p>That is an immensely long gestation period.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>for my kids that will born in ~ 5 yearsThat is an immensely long gestation period .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for my kids that will born in ~5 yearsThat is an immensely long gestation period.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28671381</id>
	<title>Re:Teaches game logic, not programming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247407500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're kidding, right?<br>All any kind of programming is is just a certain way of logic for putting object and interaction together.<br>Whether its a compiler, processor, or something else handling the interaction makes no difference.<br>A program can be made of punch cards, mechanical spindles, light and shadow, fluid dynamics or raw probability, it doesn't matter.<br>You can interact with it by physically moving punch cards or mechancial spindles or using a finely crafted UI.  It doesn't matter.<br>Computer programming is about the algorithm/architecture/design of the logic.  The implementation is important but is a circus act.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're kidding , right ? All any kind of programming is is just a certain way of logic for putting object and interaction together.Whether its a compiler , processor , or something else handling the interaction makes no difference.A program can be made of punch cards , mechanical spindles , light and shadow , fluid dynamics or raw probability , it does n't matter.You can interact with it by physically moving punch cards or mechancial spindles or using a finely crafted UI .
It does n't matter.Computer programming is about the algorithm/architecture/design of the logic .
The implementation is important but is a circus act .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're kidding, right?All any kind of programming is is just a certain way of logic for putting object and interaction together.Whether its a compiler, processor, or something else handling the interaction makes no difference.A program can be made of punch cards, mechanical spindles, light and shadow, fluid dynamics or raw probability, it doesn't matter.You can interact with it by physically moving punch cards or mechancial spindles or using a finely crafted UI.
It doesn't matter.Computer programming is about the algorithm/architecture/design of the logic.
The implementation is important but is a circus act.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28666531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663929</id>
	<title>Re:programming without typing?</title>
	<author>audunr</author>
	<datestamp>1247312700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I grew up, we didn't even have calculators to teach us programming. One person would say to another:</p><p>10 PRINT "HELLO"<br>
20 GOTO 10</p><p>and then force the other guy to run the code.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I grew up , we did n't even have calculators to teach us programming .
One person would say to another : 10 PRINT " HELLO " 20 GOTO 10and then force the other guy to run the code .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I grew up, we didn't even have calculators to teach us programming.
One person would say to another:10 PRINT "HELLO"
20 GOTO 10and then force the other guy to run the code.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28667635</id>
	<title>Re:adults?</title>
	<author>story645</author>
	<datestamp>1247417100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There are plenty of toys for adults, and you don't even need an Xbox for that. Just pick up a FPGA development board, and start coding stuff in VHDL or Verilog or something. Throw in a microcontroller, buy an oscilloscope and logic analyser, and you're good to go!</p></div><p>If you already have an xbox, the added cost would be the cost of the game. If you don't have an xbox and want this, you also get a gaming platform/dvd player out of it. FPGA dev board+oscilloscope+logic analyzer+pic+VHDL/Verilog is at least twice as much  (probably more for decent equipment) as xbox+game (hell I think the modelsim license alone is over $100) and can't be used for anything else.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are plenty of toys for adults , and you do n't even need an Xbox for that .
Just pick up a FPGA development board , and start coding stuff in VHDL or Verilog or something .
Throw in a microcontroller , buy an oscilloscope and logic analyser , and you 're good to go ! If you already have an xbox , the added cost would be the cost of the game .
If you do n't have an xbox and want this , you also get a gaming platform/dvd player out of it .
FPGA dev board + oscilloscope + logic analyzer + pic + VHDL/Verilog is at least twice as much ( probably more for decent equipment ) as xbox + game ( hell I think the modelsim license alone is over $ 100 ) and ca n't be used for anything else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are plenty of toys for adults, and you don't even need an Xbox for that.
Just pick up a FPGA development board, and start coding stuff in VHDL or Verilog or something.
Throw in a microcontroller, buy an oscilloscope and logic analyser, and you're good to go!If you already have an xbox, the added cost would be the cost of the game.
If you don't have an xbox and want this, you also get a gaming platform/dvd player out of it.
FPGA dev board+oscilloscope+logic analyzer+pic+VHDL/Verilog is at least twice as much  (probably more for decent equipment) as xbox+game (hell I think the modelsim license alone is over $100) and can't be used for anything else.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663729</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28665091</id>
	<title>Re:programming without typing?</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1247328900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And it worked. Over a decade later, I'm still programming. I'm not really convinced that "game" based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer.</p></div><p>I'm convinced that it does. Since I wrote my first line of code in FoxPro (yeah, I know, a weird choice of a first language) at 10, I kept trying to write a "proper" game. I never made it (though I did manage to write a few simple clones of basic arcane games back then), but I've learned so much in the process, and I was genuinely interested in pursuing any knowledge even very remotely related to the subject while I was working at it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And it worked .
Over a decade later , I 'm still programming .
I 'm not really convinced that " game " based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer.I 'm convinced that it does .
Since I wrote my first line of code in FoxPro ( yeah , I know , a weird choice of a first language ) at 10 , I kept trying to write a " proper " game .
I never made it ( though I did manage to write a few simple clones of basic arcane games back then ) , but I 've learned so much in the process , and I was genuinely interested in pursuing any knowledge even very remotely related to the subject while I was working at it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And it worked.
Over a decade later, I'm still programming.
I'm not really convinced that "game" based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer.I'm convinced that it does.
Since I wrote my first line of code in FoxPro (yeah, I know, a weird choice of a first language) at 10, I kept trying to write a "proper" game.
I never made it (though I did manage to write a few simple clones of basic arcane games back then), but I've learned so much in the process, and I was genuinely interested in pursuing any knowledge even very remotely related to the subject while I was working at it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664575</id>
	<title>Re:programming without typing?</title>
	<author>nEoN nOoDlE</author>
	<datestamp>1247319540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I say put them in front of a blinking cursor, the apt ones will just get it.</p></div><p>Yeah, I take the same view about life in general. I put my kids in the jungle and let them fend for themselves. If my forefathers could survive there, my kids should be able to do the same. Although so far, none of them have come back to me, which is strange because I wrote my address down on a pair of dog tags around their neck.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I say put them in front of a blinking cursor , the apt ones will just get it.Yeah , I take the same view about life in general .
I put my kids in the jungle and let them fend for themselves .
If my forefathers could survive there , my kids should be able to do the same .
Although so far , none of them have come back to me , which is strange because I wrote my address down on a pair of dog tags around their neck .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I say put them in front of a blinking cursor, the apt ones will just get it.Yeah, I take the same view about life in general.
I put my kids in the jungle and let them fend for themselves.
If my forefathers could survive there, my kids should be able to do the same.
Although so far, none of them have come back to me, which is strange because I wrote my address down on a pair of dog tags around their neck.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664541</id>
	<title>Get the fu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247319060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Kids these days.  Back in my days<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... well, I'm too senile to continue.  You guys finish this off.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Kids these days .
Back in my days ... well , I 'm too senile to continue .
You guys finish this off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kids these days.
Back in my days ... well, I'm too senile to continue.
You guys finish this off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663933</id>
	<title>Polish, Programming, and Hidden Complexity</title>
	<author>bazald</author>
	<datestamp>1247312760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Kodu is pretty well done.  At a presentation I attended a couple months back, I was impressed by the level of polish they gave the system.  The UI is fairly slick considering you have to use an Xbox 360 controller.</p><p>As far as programming is concerned, it is essentially a rule based system.  You give it conditions and actions to take when the conditions are met.  The rules fire behind the scenes and you don't have to worry about it.  One of their design goals was to make it somewhat unbreakable.  Even if you give it stupid rules, things still work to some degree.  You can't cause their system to infinite-loop, for example.  (The length of a rule is strictly limited.)</p><p>However, to make certain types of games, some users ended up having to do strange and complex tricks involving the creation of invisible objects.  Rules would then test for interactions with these objects.  That type of thing could be avoided easily with a more traditional programming language.  I suppose the problem is indicative of a small failing in trying to reach a balance between programming and modding development styles.</p><p>Still, I think it will be a very interesting "toy" for people to experiment with in the near future.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kodu is pretty well done .
At a presentation I attended a couple months back , I was impressed by the level of polish they gave the system .
The UI is fairly slick considering you have to use an Xbox 360 controller.As far as programming is concerned , it is essentially a rule based system .
You give it conditions and actions to take when the conditions are met .
The rules fire behind the scenes and you do n't have to worry about it .
One of their design goals was to make it somewhat unbreakable .
Even if you give it stupid rules , things still work to some degree .
You ca n't cause their system to infinite-loop , for example .
( The length of a rule is strictly limited .
) However , to make certain types of games , some users ended up having to do strange and complex tricks involving the creation of invisible objects .
Rules would then test for interactions with these objects .
That type of thing could be avoided easily with a more traditional programming language .
I suppose the problem is indicative of a small failing in trying to reach a balance between programming and modding development styles.Still , I think it will be a very interesting " toy " for people to experiment with in the near future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kodu is pretty well done.
At a presentation I attended a couple months back, I was impressed by the level of polish they gave the system.
The UI is fairly slick considering you have to use an Xbox 360 controller.As far as programming is concerned, it is essentially a rule based system.
You give it conditions and actions to take when the conditions are met.
The rules fire behind the scenes and you don't have to worry about it.
One of their design goals was to make it somewhat unbreakable.
Even if you give it stupid rules, things still work to some degree.
You can't cause their system to infinite-loop, for example.
(The length of a rule is strictly limited.
)However, to make certain types of games, some users ended up having to do strange and complex tricks involving the creation of invisible objects.
Rules would then test for interactions with these objects.
That type of thing could be avoided easily with a more traditional programming language.
I suppose the problem is indicative of a small failing in trying to reach a balance between programming and modding development styles.Still, I think it will be a very interesting "toy" for people to experiment with in the near future.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664171</id>
	<title>and they did not release for PC? :(</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247315100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>they could/should have!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they could/should have !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they could/should have!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28666581</id>
	<title>Re:Need reading glasses</title>
	<author>toriver</author>
	<datestamp>1247402400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The only kid you can program via the XBox is that creepy one from the Natal (motion sensor thingy) demos at this year's E3.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The only kid you can program via the XBox is that creepy one from the Natal ( motion sensor thingy ) demos at this year 's E3 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The only kid you can program via the XBox is that creepy one from the Natal (motion sensor thingy) demos at this year's E3.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663845</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663559</id>
	<title>Just say NO to Logo on steriods</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247309400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your turtle shrinks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your turtle shrinks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your turtle shrinks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28665257</id>
	<title>How fucking hard...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247331480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How fucking hard is it to just learn a real programming/scripting language? What aged kids are they talking about? Maybe it used to be harder, but now there are many easy to learn languages that also have real uses. I learned javascript when I was 10 (for use in a game engine), and a few other simple languages before that---but not logo, or such. VB is understandable because you can actually make stuff in it. LOGO/such are pointless in my opinion.</p><p>The game actually looks kind of cool (still don't think I'd buy it), but the best way to learn to program is to learn to program.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How fucking hard is it to just learn a real programming/scripting language ?
What aged kids are they talking about ?
Maybe it used to be harder , but now there are many easy to learn languages that also have real uses .
I learned javascript when I was 10 ( for use in a game engine ) , and a few other simple languages before that---but not logo , or such .
VB is understandable because you can actually make stuff in it .
LOGO/such are pointless in my opinion.The game actually looks kind of cool ( still do n't think I 'd buy it ) , but the best way to learn to program is to learn to program .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How fucking hard is it to just learn a real programming/scripting language?
What aged kids are they talking about?
Maybe it used to be harder, but now there are many easy to learn languages that also have real uses.
I learned javascript when I was 10 (for use in a game engine), and a few other simple languages before that---but not logo, or such.
VB is understandable because you can actually make stuff in it.
LOGO/such are pointless in my opinion.The game actually looks kind of cool (still don't think I'd buy it), but the best way to learn to program is to learn to program.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28678233</id>
	<title>Re:Isn't this just a level editor?</title>
	<author>DragonWriter</author>
	<datestamp>1247506380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If it is all this "programming" done with a controlpad (or joystick), it doesn't look like a real programming tool.</p></div></blockquote><p>I would agree, but only insofar as "programming" with an IDE with templates, autocompletion, and GUI builders (and, especially, wiring up BPMN or similar diagrams) isn't "real programming".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If it is all this " programming " done with a controlpad ( or joystick ) , it does n't look like a real programming tool.I would agree , but only insofar as " programming " with an IDE with templates , autocompletion , and GUI builders ( and , especially , wiring up BPMN or similar diagrams ) is n't " real programming " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it is all this "programming" done with a controlpad (or joystick), it doesn't look like a real programming tool.I would agree, but only insofar as "programming" with an IDE with templates, autocompletion, and GUI builders (and, especially, wiring up BPMN or similar diagrams) isn't "real programming".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664785</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28669921</id>
	<title>X Square Circle</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1247393940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why the h*ck does everybody always call xbox 360 for xbox?</p></div><p>So that they don't always have to remind themselves where Microsoft allegedly got the name. <a href="http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:X\_square\_circle.png" title="wikia.com">X Square Circle: You can't unsee it</a> [wikia.com].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why the h * ck does everybody always call xbox 360 for xbox ? So that they do n't always have to remind themselves where Microsoft allegedly got the name .
X Square Circle : You ca n't unsee it [ wikia.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why the h*ck does everybody always call xbox 360 for xbox?So that they don't always have to remind themselves where Microsoft allegedly got the name.
X Square Circle: You can't unsee it [wikia.com].
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664117</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28675093</id>
	<title>Kids should use brainfuck</title>
	<author>anarkavre</author>
	<datestamp>1247494500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I ported it to the Wii<br> <br>
<a href="http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Bfi" title="wiibrew.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Bfi</a> [wiibrew.org]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ported it to the Wii http : //www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Bfi [ wiibrew.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I ported it to the Wii 
http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Bfi [wiibrew.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28666531</id>
	<title>Teaches game logic, not programming</title>
	<author>jjl</author>
	<datestamp>1247401560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think these kind of approaches really teach programming. Programming is so much more about the structure of a whole program down to the minute details and everything in between, including the strict syntax.</p><p>These game-oriented things are great, but what one learns with them is basically just a certain way how logic how object and AI interaction can work in games. And the logic is input using a finely crafted UI.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think these kind of approaches really teach programming .
Programming is so much more about the structure of a whole program down to the minute details and everything in between , including the strict syntax.These game-oriented things are great , but what one learns with them is basically just a certain way how logic how object and AI interaction can work in games .
And the logic is input using a finely crafted UI .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think these kind of approaches really teach programming.
Programming is so much more about the structure of a whole program down to the minute details and everything in between, including the strict syntax.These game-oriented things are great, but what one learns with them is basically just a certain way how logic how object and AI interaction can work in games.
And the logic is input using a finely crafted UI.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28666045</id>
	<title>Not available in my country</title>
	<author>KDR\_11k</author>
	<datestamp>1247391180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I really want Kodu just for some prototyping and maybe messing around (5&euro; is a nice price for that IMO) but it's only available in countries which have the community games available which doesn't include Germany (presumably because of the enforced age ratings that no community games will have so they'd effectively be 18+). I wish MS hadn't thrown it on the community games system and instead gone for plain XBLA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I really want Kodu just for some prototyping and maybe messing around ( 5    is a nice price for that IMO ) but it 's only available in countries which have the community games available which does n't include Germany ( presumably because of the enforced age ratings that no community games will have so they 'd effectively be 18 + ) .
I wish MS had n't thrown it on the community games system and instead gone for plain XBLA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really want Kodu just for some prototyping and maybe messing around (5€ is a nice price for that IMO) but it's only available in countries which have the community games available which doesn't include Germany (presumably because of the enforced age ratings that no community games will have so they'd effectively be 18+).
I wish MS hadn't thrown it on the community games system and instead gone for plain XBLA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663729</id>
	<title>Re:adults?</title>
	<author>JustKidding</author>
	<datestamp>1247310780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are plenty of toys for adults, and you don't even need an Xbox for that. Just pick up a FPGA development board, and start coding stuff in VHDL or Verilog or something. Throw in a microcontroller, buy an oscilloscope and logic analyser, and you're good to go!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are plenty of toys for adults , and you do n't even need an Xbox for that .
Just pick up a FPGA development board , and start coding stuff in VHDL or Verilog or something .
Throw in a microcontroller , buy an oscilloscope and logic analyser , and you 're good to go !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are plenty of toys for adults, and you don't even need an Xbox for that.
Just pick up a FPGA development board, and start coding stuff in VHDL or Verilog or something.
Throw in a microcontroller, buy an oscilloscope and logic analyser, and you're good to go!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664233</id>
	<title>ALICE</title>
	<author>Aphonia</author>
	<datestamp>1247315700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It seems like Alice, except on a console [ <a href="http://www.alice.org/index.php?page=downloads/download\_alice" title="alice.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.alice.org/index.php?page=downloads/download\_alice</a> [alice.org] ].

I suppose if you want to teach to kids though, you have to show them something cool, which is where Kodu succeeds. Kids like to be cool, and making it look cool helps.

Also, it looks like it can be a bit of fun on the xbox.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems like Alice , except on a console [ http : //www.alice.org/index.php ? page = downloads/download \ _alice [ alice.org ] ] .
I suppose if you want to teach to kids though , you have to show them something cool , which is where Kodu succeeds .
Kids like to be cool , and making it look cool helps .
Also , it looks like it can be a bit of fun on the xbox .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems like Alice, except on a console [ http://www.alice.org/index.php?page=downloads/download\_alice [alice.org] ].
I suppose if you want to teach to kids though, you have to show them something cool, which is where Kodu succeeds.
Kids like to be cool, and making it look cool helps.
Also, it looks like it can be a bit of fun on the xbox.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664045</id>
	<title>Re:adults?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247313780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Too bad its mainly made for kids, there's not enough such toys for us adults<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) </p></div><p>It's called Second Life.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Too bad its mainly made for kids , there 's not enough such toys for us adults : ) It 's called Second Life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too bad its mainly made for kids, there's not enough such toys for us adults :) It's called Second Life.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28666021</id>
	<title>Re:adults?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247390220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.clickteam.com/" title="clickteam.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.clickteam.com/</a> [clickteam.com]
they've been making programs like this since Klik &amp; Play in the mid 90s</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.clickteam.com/ [ clickteam.com ] they 've been making programs like this since Klik &amp; Play in the mid 90s</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.clickteam.com/ [clickteam.com]
they've been making programs like this since Klik &amp; Play in the mid 90s</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663729</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664111</id>
	<title>Re:adults?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247314560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Too bad its mainly made for kids, there's not enough such toys for us adults</p></div><p>That wouldn't stop me.<br>Yes, it's geared towards kids, but looks like the adults are having more fun with it.  Some of the games being created are pretty damn cool. Now if they can just put out some DLC with more objects that are not so 'cutesy'...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Too bad its mainly made for kids , there 's not enough such toys for us adultsThat would n't stop me.Yes , it 's geared towards kids , but looks like the adults are having more fun with it .
Some of the games being created are pretty damn cool .
Now if they can just put out some DLC with more objects that are not so 'cutesy'.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too bad its mainly made for kids, there's not enough such toys for us adultsThat wouldn't stop me.Yes, it's geared towards kids, but looks like the adults are having more fun with it.
Some of the games being created are pretty damn cool.
Now if they can just put out some DLC with more objects that are not so 'cutesy'...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28666011</id>
	<title>How To Teach Programming To Kids</title>
	<author>Psicopatico</author>
	<datestamp>1247389980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Disclaimer: I don't have kids (yet)</p><p>What about getting out of the lawn, and go RTFM?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Disclaimer : I do n't have kids ( yet ) What about getting out of the lawn , and go RTFM ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Disclaimer: I don't have kids (yet)What about getting out of the lawn, and go RTFM?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28665125</id>
	<title>Re:programming without typing?</title>
	<author>HalAtWork</author>
	<datestamp>1247329440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Even if it doesn't help people program, maybe it can help the less technically inclined to get a better idea about how software works.  I got interested in programming because of games.  When I saw games glitch, and saw programming limits showing through and tried to figure out why they couldn't achieve what they wanted, it gave me insight on how things worked.  Through observation, I knew enough about making games that it made learning programming theory easier, and I was quickly able to achieve what I wanted because I could picture clearly how it should work.  YMMV.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if it does n't help people program , maybe it can help the less technically inclined to get a better idea about how software works .
I got interested in programming because of games .
When I saw games glitch , and saw programming limits showing through and tried to figure out why they could n't achieve what they wanted , it gave me insight on how things worked .
Through observation , I knew enough about making games that it made learning programming theory easier , and I was quickly able to achieve what I wanted because I could picture clearly how it should work .
YMMV .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if it doesn't help people program, maybe it can help the less technically inclined to get a better idea about how software works.
I got interested in programming because of games.
When I saw games glitch, and saw programming limits showing through and tried to figure out why they couldn't achieve what they wanted, it gave me insight on how things worked.
Through observation, I knew enough about making games that it made learning programming theory easier, and I was quickly able to achieve what I wanted because I could picture clearly how it should work.
YMMV.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664651</id>
	<title>Re:Xbox Yuk!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247321160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Xbox wasn't responsible for the death of the Dreamcast, you're thinking of Playstation 2. Xbox 1 didn't really blow anything out of the market. It held it's own, but it wasn't until the Xbox 360 that they were in serious competition for head of the pack. If anything, Xbox 360 is proving Sony can't coast on their prior success and actually has to work if the PS3 will be successful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Xbox was n't responsible for the death of the Dreamcast , you 're thinking of Playstation 2 .
Xbox 1 did n't really blow anything out of the market .
It held it 's own , but it was n't until the Xbox 360 that they were in serious competition for head of the pack .
If anything , Xbox 360 is proving Sony ca n't coast on their prior success and actually has to work if the PS3 will be successful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Xbox wasn't responsible for the death of the Dreamcast, you're thinking of Playstation 2.
Xbox 1 didn't really blow anything out of the market.
It held it's own, but it wasn't until the Xbox 360 that they were in serious competition for head of the pack.
If anything, Xbox 360 is proving Sony can't coast on their prior success and actually has to work if the PS3 will be successful.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663939</id>
	<title>And Etch-A-Sketch Teaches Art!!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247312760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seriously, while a toy can help provide familiarity, it's not enough to learn the field well. A more powerful and useful set of tools for an X-Box are at <a href="http://www.xbox-linux.org/" title="xbox-linux.org">http://www.xbox-linux.org/</a> [xbox-linux.org]. Enjoy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , while a toy can help provide familiarity , it 's not enough to learn the field well .
A more powerful and useful set of tools for an X-Box are at http : //www.xbox-linux.org/ [ xbox-linux.org ] .
Enjoy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, while a toy can help provide familiarity, it's not enough to learn the field well.
A more powerful and useful set of tools for an X-Box are at http://www.xbox-linux.org/ [xbox-linux.org].
Enjoy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664705</id>
	<title>wow</title>
	<author>JimboFBX</author>
	<datestamp>1247322120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can't believe I've this read this far in the comments and have yet to see a reference to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klik\_\%26\_Play" title="wikipedia.org">Klik and Play</a> [wikipedia.org] <br> <br>

Certainly good memories with that program.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't believe I 've this read this far in the comments and have yet to see a reference to Klik and Play [ wikipedia.org ] Certainly good memories with that program .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't believe I've this read this far in the comments and have yet to see a reference to Klik and Play [wikipedia.org]  

Certainly good memories with that program.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663683</id>
	<title>It's not directed enough</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247310420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Logo one could draw 2d pictures.  One would have to think out how to move the turtle to draw the picture that one wanted to draw.  There was the setpos command to make things easy but more interesting was using the move/turn commands.</p><p>But Kodu doesn't seem to have any direction.  What games are kids supposed to create?  It's a tool without a purpose.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Logo one could draw 2d pictures .
One would have to think out how to move the turtle to draw the picture that one wanted to draw .
There was the setpos command to make things easy but more interesting was using the move/turn commands.But Kodu does n't seem to have any direction .
What games are kids supposed to create ?
It 's a tool without a purpose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Logo one could draw 2d pictures.
One would have to think out how to move the turtle to draw the picture that one wanted to draw.
There was the setpos command to make things easy but more interesting was using the move/turn commands.But Kodu doesn't seem to have any direction.
What games are kids supposed to create?
It's a tool without a purpose.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663873</id>
	<title>it's called functional programming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247312220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No need to bring hardware design into this.  I believe the term is 'functional programming'.</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional\_programming" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional\_programming</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No need to bring hardware design into this .
I believe the term is 'functional programming'.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional \ _programming [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No need to bring hardware design into this.
I believe the term is 'functional programming'.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional\_programming [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28669873</id>
	<title>Re:wow</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1247393700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I can't believe I've this read this far in the comments and have yet to see a reference to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klik\_\%26\_Play" title="wikipedia.org">Klik and Play</a> [wikipedia.org]</p> </div><p>Then you must have missed <a href="http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1299719&amp;cid=28663675" title="slashdot.org">this comment</a> [slashdot.org] about The Games Factory and Multimedia Fusion, the successors to KNP.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't believe I 've this read this far in the comments and have yet to see a reference to Klik and Play [ wikipedia.org ] Then you must have missed this comment [ slashdot.org ] about The Games Factory and Multimedia Fusion , the successors to KNP .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't believe I've this read this far in the comments and have yet to see a reference to Klik and Play [wikipedia.org] Then you must have missed this comment [slashdot.org] about The Games Factory and Multimedia Fusion, the successors to KNP.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664705</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663863</id>
	<title>Porn?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247312220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Porn for functional LISP code, instead of porn for broken CAPTCHAS?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Porn for functional LISP code , instead of porn for broken CAPTCHAS ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Porn for functional LISP code, instead of porn for broken CAPTCHAS?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28673175</id>
	<title>Re:adults?</title>
	<author>ami.one</author>
	<datestamp>1247428380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> obviously for my kids that will born in ~5 years)</p></div><p>*cough* *cough*</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>obviously for my kids that will born in ~ 5 years ) * cough * * cough *</tokentext>
<sentencetext> obviously for my kids that will born in ~5 years)*cough* *cough*
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663639</id>
	<title>Like MindRover?</title>
	<author>ToasterMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1247310000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://reviews.cnet.com/pc-games/mindrover-the-europa-project/4505-9696\_7-31851250.html" title="cnet.com">MindRover</a> [cnet.com] came out about ten years ago with a programming model that sounds like this one.</p><p>It was really cool.  The GUI generated code in an intermediate language ('Ice',  C-ish I think), then compiled that to some kind of VM.  You were never meant to see those guts though, and it didn't let you hack the intermediate files.   It's a shame, it would have gotten a lot more geek cred, even if it shattered the level playing field<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:\</p><p>This, will probably be limited to the GUI parts, being on a console and all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MindRover [ cnet.com ] came out about ten years ago with a programming model that sounds like this one.It was really cool .
The GUI generated code in an intermediate language ( 'Ice ' , C-ish I think ) , then compiled that to some kind of VM .
You were never meant to see those guts though , and it did n't let you hack the intermediate files .
It 's a shame , it would have gotten a lot more geek cred , even if it shattered the level playing field : \ This , will probably be limited to the GUI parts , being on a console and all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MindRover [cnet.com] came out about ten years ago with a programming model that sounds like this one.It was really cool.
The GUI generated code in an intermediate language ('Ice',  C-ish I think), then compiled that to some kind of VM.
You were never meant to see those guts though, and it didn't let you hack the intermediate files.
It's a shame, it would have gotten a lot more geek cred, even if it shattered the level playing field :\This, will probably be limited to the GUI parts, being on a console and all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663799</id>
	<title>Phfew! I'm alright!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247311440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I saw this I thought someone beat me to the punch for a programming game. </p><p>In my game, you send out programming jobs to India and the winner is the one who gets the most money by selling and producing solutions to Fortune 1000 companies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I saw this I thought someone beat me to the punch for a programming game .
In my game , you send out programming jobs to India and the winner is the one who gets the most money by selling and producing solutions to Fortune 1000 companies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I saw this I thought someone beat me to the punch for a programming game.
In my game, you send out programming jobs to India and the winner is the one who gets the most money by selling and producing solutions to Fortune 1000 companies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663807</id>
	<title>HDL not  ASIC - incorrect term used</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247311560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;'application specific integrated circuits' in engineering, where every line of code runs in parallel."</p><p>You have described High level Description Language NOT ASIC. OP please check your terms before using it.<br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware\_description\_language</p><p>It is a language for specifying, describing, building or modeling hardware devices. You could be building it with ASIC, FPGA, CPLD or even hand wire it with discrete chips. The language inherently supports parallel programming as logic gates runs in parallel.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; 'application specific integrated circuits ' in engineering , where every line of code runs in parallel .
" You have described High level Description Language NOT ASIC .
OP please check your terms before using it.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware \ _description \ _languageIt is a language for specifying , describing , building or modeling hardware devices .
You could be building it with ASIC , FPGA , CPLD or even hand wire it with discrete chips .
The language inherently supports parallel programming as logic gates runs in parallel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;'application specific integrated circuits' in engineering, where every line of code runs in parallel.
"You have described High level Description Language NOT ASIC.
OP please check your terms before using it.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware\_description\_languageIt is a language for specifying, describing, building or modeling hardware devices.
You could be building it with ASIC, FPGA, CPLD or even hand wire it with discrete chips.
The language inherently supports parallel programming as logic gates runs in parallel.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664469</id>
	<title>Xbox Yuk!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247318100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wouldn't want to see my children with an Xbox, depressing...</p><p>Just jump into the Microsoft hole...</p><p>Let them take over the internet and the gaming market...</p><p>Xbox blew SEGA out of the market.</p><p>Not nice.</p><p>Anything but Microsoft please...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would n't want to see my children with an Xbox , depressing...Just jump into the Microsoft hole...Let them take over the internet and the gaming market...Xbox blew SEGA out of the market.Not nice.Anything but Microsoft please.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wouldn't want to see my children with an Xbox, depressing...Just jump into the Microsoft hole...Let them take over the internet and the gaming market...Xbox blew SEGA out of the market.Not nice.Anything but Microsoft please...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663691</id>
	<title>programming without typing?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247310480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My first program was in 1991 on a TI-something:</p><p><tt>print hello</tt></p><p>this came with a syntax error.  My second program was</p><p><tt>print "hello"</tt></p><p>And it worked.  Over a decade later, I'm still programming.  I'm not really convinced that "game" based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer.  I say put them in front of a blinking cursor, the apt ones will just get it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My first program was in 1991 on a TI-something : print hellothis came with a syntax error .
My second program wasprint " hello " And it worked .
Over a decade later , I 'm still programming .
I 'm not really convinced that " game " based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer .
I say put them in front of a blinking cursor , the apt ones will just get it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My first program was in 1991 on a TI-something:print hellothis came with a syntax error.
My second program wasprint "hello"And it worked.
Over a decade later, I'm still programming.
I'm not really convinced that "game" based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer.
I say put them in front of a blinking cursor, the apt ones will just get it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28666061</id>
	<title>Re:it's called functional programming</title>
	<author>KDR\_11k</author>
	<datestamp>1247391720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, looks more like the sensor-actuator approach seen in something like the Blender Game Engine.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , looks more like the sensor-actuator approach seen in something like the Blender Game Engine .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, looks more like the sensor-actuator approach seen in something like the Blender Game Engine.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663873</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664785</id>
	<title>Isn't this just a level editor?</title>
	<author>stm2</author>
	<datestamp>1247323440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it is all this "programming" done with a controlpad (or joystick), it doesn't look like a real programming tool. Looks more like a level editor to me. Prove me wrong.<br>BTW, the guy who wanted a mouse to program may be interested on this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it is all this " programming " done with a controlpad ( or joystick ) , it does n't look like a real programming tool .
Looks more like a level editor to me .
Prove me wrong.BTW , the guy who wanted a mouse to program may be interested on this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it is all this "programming" done with a controlpad (or joystick), it doesn't look like a real programming tool.
Looks more like a level editor to me.
Prove me wrong.BTW, the guy who wanted a mouse to program may be interested on this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28668481</id>
	<title>Web based graphical programming</title>
	<author>sgt101</author>
	<datestamp>1247425260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We developed http://btrules.com</p><p>It's another extension of the logo idea, actually it is based on the ideas in Scratch from the same group at MIT, but it's web based and enables customization and mash ups of web properties like Google Apps and Twitter</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We developed http : //btrules.comIt 's another extension of the logo idea , actually it is based on the ideas in Scratch from the same group at MIT , but it 's web based and enables customization and mash ups of web properties like Google Apps and Twitter</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We developed http://btrules.comIt's another extension of the logo idea, actually it is based on the ideas in Scratch from the same group at MIT, but it's web based and enables customization and mash ups of web properties like Google Apps and Twitter</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663739</id>
	<title>Re:adults?</title>
	<author>ProzacPatient</author>
	<datestamp>1247310900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Too bad its mainly made for kids, there's not enough such toys for us adults<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div><p>

Actually there sort of is, it's called Garry's Mod.<br>
If you link it up with a third party mod called "WireMod" you can do all kinds of crazy stuff in the game by wiring things together, besides what you can do outside the game with Lua scripting.<br> <br>
<a href="http://store.steampowered.com/app/4000/" title="steampowered.com" rel="nofollow">http://store.steampowered.com/app/4000/</a> [steampowered.com]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Too bad its mainly made for kids , there 's not enough such toys for us adults : ) Actually there sort of is , it 's called Garry 's Mod .
If you link it up with a third party mod called " WireMod " you can do all kinds of crazy stuff in the game by wiring things together , besides what you can do outside the game with Lua scripting .
http : //store.steampowered.com/app/4000/ [ steampowered.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too bad its mainly made for kids, there's not enough such toys for us adults :)

Actually there sort of is, it's called Garry's Mod.
If you link it up with a third party mod called "WireMod" you can do all kinds of crazy stuff in the game by wiring things together, besides what you can do outside the game with Lua scripting.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/4000/ [steampowered.com]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28677853</id>
	<title>it actually makes sense</title>
	<author>vuffi\_raa</author>
	<datestamp>1247505240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>when I was a kid I was brought up with logo in the art class and basic in our math class as part of an experimental learning program. I think that it is really important to give kids the understanding of logic and result, a lot more important than teaching actual code since in the end the language itself is transitory but the concepts of logic will remain the same in any programming or scripting language.</htmltext>
<tokenext>when I was a kid I was brought up with logo in the art class and basic in our math class as part of an experimental learning program .
I think that it is really important to give kids the understanding of logic and result , a lot more important than teaching actual code since in the end the language itself is transitory but the concepts of logic will remain the same in any programming or scripting language .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>when I was a kid I was brought up with logo in the art class and basic in our math class as part of an experimental learning program.
I think that it is really important to give kids the understanding of logic and result, a lot more important than teaching actual code since in the end the language itself is transitory but the concepts of logic will remain the same in any programming or scripting language.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663861</id>
	<title>Re:adults?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247312160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt;(yeah, obviously for my kids that will born in ~5 years)<br>
&nbsp; <br>"Yeah, obviously?" What, was there some huge publicly-decreed moratorium on you having kids or something?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; ( yeah , obviously for my kids that will born in ~ 5 years )   " Yeah , obviously ?
" What , was there some huge publicly-decreed moratorium on you having kids or something ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt;(yeah, obviously for my kids that will born in ~5 years)
  "Yeah, obviously?
" What, was there some huge publicly-decreed moratorium on you having kids or something?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28671527</id>
	<title>Re:adults?</title>
	<author>demachina</author>
	<datestamp>1247408700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Throw a copy of Paranoid Linux on an XBox, crank up XNet and Clockwork Plunder and you can teach your kids to fight the man starting at an early age.</p><p>Since its XBox the obligatory Cory Doctorow, <a href="http://craphound.com/littlebrother/" title="craphound.com">Little Brother</a> [craphound.com] references are mandatory<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)  Don't trust anyone over 25 and down with the man.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Throw a copy of Paranoid Linux on an XBox , crank up XNet and Clockwork Plunder and you can teach your kids to fight the man starting at an early age.Since its XBox the obligatory Cory Doctorow , Little Brother [ craphound.com ] references are mandatory : ) Do n't trust anyone over 25 and down with the man .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Throw a copy of Paranoid Linux on an XBox, crank up XNet and Clockwork Plunder and you can teach your kids to fight the man starting at an early age.Since its XBox the obligatory Cory Doctorow, Little Brother [craphound.com] references are mandatory :)  Don't trust anyone over 25 and down with the man.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663439</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663997</id>
	<title>Re:programming without typing?</title>
	<author>jollyreaper</author>
	<datestamp>1247313180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And it worked. Over a decade later, I'm still programming. I'm not really convinced that "game" based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer. I say put them in front of a blinking cursor, the apt ones will just get it.</p></div><p>Logo was my first brush with programming. I still have fond memories. Obviously, no one approach works for everyone and just because one way worked for you, that does not mean another might not work for someone else.</p><p>Even if people don't become programmers, just understanding the way computers work is invaluable. Where I work, I'm providing classes on how to do reporting off our CRM system. Do I expect every user to write their own reports? Not really. The hat I was hired in under is report writer and there's a lot of stuff that's too complex for the typical user to figure out. But with a proper grounding in the theory of how the system works, I can at least have a productive conversation when troubleshooting a report.</p><p>What really astounds me is when people show a fundamental lack of understanding of their own business logic. No, this isn't computer stuff I'm asking you to learn. If computers were never invented, you'd be doing this with index cards. The same logic would apply. But they don't get it. I just can't understand the thinking that goes behind "I have no idea what I'm asking for and wouldn't recognize the correct solution if I saw it but I'm in charge and do what I say." But fixing that kind of disconnect is above my pay grade.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And it worked .
Over a decade later , I 'm still programming .
I 'm not really convinced that " game " based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer .
I say put them in front of a blinking cursor , the apt ones will just get it.Logo was my first brush with programming .
I still have fond memories .
Obviously , no one approach works for everyone and just because one way worked for you , that does not mean another might not work for someone else.Even if people do n't become programmers , just understanding the way computers work is invaluable .
Where I work , I 'm providing classes on how to do reporting off our CRM system .
Do I expect every user to write their own reports ?
Not really .
The hat I was hired in under is report writer and there 's a lot of stuff that 's too complex for the typical user to figure out .
But with a proper grounding in the theory of how the system works , I can at least have a productive conversation when troubleshooting a report.What really astounds me is when people show a fundamental lack of understanding of their own business logic .
No , this is n't computer stuff I 'm asking you to learn .
If computers were never invented , you 'd be doing this with index cards .
The same logic would apply .
But they do n't get it .
I just ca n't understand the thinking that goes behind " I have no idea what I 'm asking for and would n't recognize the correct solution if I saw it but I 'm in charge and do what I say .
" But fixing that kind of disconnect is above my pay grade .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And it worked.
Over a decade later, I'm still programming.
I'm not really convinced that "game" based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer.
I say put them in front of a blinking cursor, the apt ones will just get it.Logo was my first brush with programming.
I still have fond memories.
Obviously, no one approach works for everyone and just because one way worked for you, that does not mean another might not work for someone else.Even if people don't become programmers, just understanding the way computers work is invaluable.
Where I work, I'm providing classes on how to do reporting off our CRM system.
Do I expect every user to write their own reports?
Not really.
The hat I was hired in under is report writer and there's a lot of stuff that's too complex for the typical user to figure out.
But with a proper grounding in the theory of how the system works, I can at least have a productive conversation when troubleshooting a report.What really astounds me is when people show a fundamental lack of understanding of their own business logic.
No, this isn't computer stuff I'm asking you to learn.
If computers were never invented, you'd be doing this with index cards.
The same logic would apply.
But they don't get it.
I just can't understand the thinking that goes behind "I have no idea what I'm asking for and wouldn't recognize the correct solution if I saw it but I'm in charge and do what I say.
" But fixing that kind of disconnect is above my pay grade.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663503</id>
	<title>This isn't programming.</title>
	<author>yourassOA</author>
	<datestamp>1247308980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is just a game, kind of cool, but just a game.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just a game , kind of cool , but just a game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just a game, kind of cool, but just a game.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28666153</id>
	<title>Re:programming without typing?</title>
	<author>home-electro.com</author>
	<datestamp>1247393880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm not really convinced that "game" based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer.  I say put them in front of a blinking cursor, the apt ones will just get it.</p></div><p> Me neither. Besides, do we need MORE of Visual Basic programmers?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not really convinced that " game " based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer .
I say put them in front of a blinking cursor , the apt ones will just get it .
Me neither .
Besides , do we need MORE of Visual Basic programmers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not really convinced that "game" based programming systems do anything to inspire the young programmer.
I say put them in front of a blinking cursor, the apt ones will just get it.
Me neither.
Besides, do we need MORE of Visual Basic programmers?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663909</id>
	<title>Re:programming without typing?</title>
	<author>ug333</author>
	<datestamp>1247312520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Personally, this attitude drives me nuts. Sure, the kids with a real natural love for it will pick it up no matter what interface you put in front of them. But you will hook MORE if you provide them something entertaining to get them interested. There are two major bars to clear: one to initially get interested in the profession and the second is to become a professional. I want the first bar low and the second bar high. There is plenty of time in the middle to filter out those people who lack the necessary skills. Trying to filter them up front is going to filter out some potentially good developers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally , this attitude drives me nuts .
Sure , the kids with a real natural love for it will pick it up no matter what interface you put in front of them .
But you will hook MORE if you provide them something entertaining to get them interested .
There are two major bars to clear : one to initially get interested in the profession and the second is to become a professional .
I want the first bar low and the second bar high .
There is plenty of time in the middle to filter out those people who lack the necessary skills .
Trying to filter them up front is going to filter out some potentially good developers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally, this attitude drives me nuts.
Sure, the kids with a real natural love for it will pick it up no matter what interface you put in front of them.
But you will hook MORE if you provide them something entertaining to get them interested.
There are two major bars to clear: one to initially get interested in the profession and the second is to become a professional.
I want the first bar low and the second bar high.
There is plenty of time in the middle to filter out those people who lack the necessary skills.
Trying to filter them up front is going to filter out some potentially good developers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663691</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28665365</id>
	<title>It's NOT ASIC</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247332860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"It sounds like what we call 'application specific integrated circuits' in engineering, where every line of code runs in parallel."</p><p>Does the guy DO engineering ? well, I do<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)<br>ASIC is a process for doing a particular class of integrated circuits.<br>What the guy refers to is the kind of languages that describe these circuits, "RTL" (register-transfer languages) such as VHDL or Verilog, which can be used for other kinds of processes (half-custom, high-level SoC integration or FPGA for example).<br>Oh, and VHDL is derived from ADA, which is derived from Pascal...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" It sounds like what we call 'application specific integrated circuits ' in engineering , where every line of code runs in parallel .
" Does the guy DO engineering ?
well , I do ; - ) ASIC is a process for doing a particular class of integrated circuits.What the guy refers to is the kind of languages that describe these circuits , " RTL " ( register-transfer languages ) such as VHDL or Verilog , which can be used for other kinds of processes ( half-custom , high-level SoC integration or FPGA for example ) .Oh , and VHDL is derived from ADA , which is derived from Pascal.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"It sounds like what we call 'application specific integrated circuits' in engineering, where every line of code runs in parallel.
"Does the guy DO engineering ?
well, I do ;-)ASIC is a process for doing a particular class of integrated circuits.What the guy refers to is the kind of languages that describe these circuits, "RTL" (register-transfer languages) such as VHDL or Verilog, which can be used for other kinds of processes (half-custom, high-level SoC integration or FPGA for example).Oh, and VHDL is derived from ADA, which is derived from Pascal...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28665601</id>
	<title>Re:programming without typing?</title>
	<author>dvice\_null</author>
	<datestamp>1247337600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"10 PRINT "HELLO ";<br>20 GOTO 10<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...and brought me 28 years later where I am now."</p><p>You are still in the loop?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" 10 PRINT " HELLO " ; 20 GOTO 10 ...and brought me 28 years later where I am now .
" You are still in the loop ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"10 PRINT "HELLO ";20 GOTO 10 ...and brought me 28 years later where I am now.
"You are still in the loop?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28663899</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664531</id>
	<title>I graduated logo and now play garry's mod</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247318940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the video of the demo looked like someone just took garry's mod, stripped it, dumped in 20 year old graphics and left it..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the video of the demo looked like someone just took garry 's mod , stripped it , dumped in 20 year old graphics and left it. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the video of the demo looked like someone just took garry's mod, stripped it, dumped in 20 year old graphics and left it..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_11_2124218.28664117</id>
	<title>Xbox? Xbox 360!</title>
	<author>pengipengi</author>
	<datestamp>1247314620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why the h*ck does everybody always call xbox 360 for xbox? The xbox is a couple of year old black ugly box...</p><p>I hoped this would be a great game for me to play on my xbox... but no no...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why the h * ck does everybody always call xbox 360 for xbox ?
The xbox is a couple of year old black ugly box...I hoped this would be a great game for me to play on my xbox... but no no.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why the h*ck does everybody always call xbox 360 for xbox?
The xbox is a couple of year old black ugly box...I hoped this would be a great game for me to play on my xbox... but no no...</sentencetext>
</comment>
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