<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_10_157244</id>
	<title>NTSB Says a Downdraft Killed Steve Fossett</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1247240760000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="mailto:imipak@@@yahoo...com" rel="nofollow">jd</a> writes <i>"The National Transportation Safety Board has now released the text of its examination (<a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev\_id=20081007X17184&amp;ntsbno=SEA07FA277&amp;akey=1">full narrative</a> available) into the <a href="//news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/02/1846229&amp;tid=1971">crash of Steve Fossett's aircraft</a> on Sept 3rd, 2007. It concludes that <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090709/ap\_on\_re\_us/us\_fossett\_search">downdrafts were the likely cause</a> of the crash, dragging the plane into the mountain with such force that, even at full power, it would have been impossible to escape the collision. Pilots experienced in the area report that those winds can rip the wings off aircraft; and Mark Twain remarked that they could roll up a tin house 'like sheet music.' One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions, given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on, but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>jd writes " The National Transportation Safety Board has now released the text of its examination ( full narrative available ) into the crash of Steve Fossett 's aircraft on Sept 3rd , 2007 .
It concludes that downdrafts were the likely cause of the crash , dragging the plane into the mountain with such force that , even at full power , it would have been impossible to escape the collision .
Pilots experienced in the area report that those winds can rip the wings off aircraft ; and Mark Twain remarked that they could roll up a tin house 'like sheet music .
' One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions , given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on , but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>jd writes "The National Transportation Safety Board has now released the text of its examination (full narrative available) into the crash of Steve Fossett's aircraft on Sept 3rd, 2007.
It concludes that downdrafts were the likely cause of the crash, dragging the plane into the mountain with such force that, even at full power, it would have been impossible to escape the collision.
Pilots experienced in the area report that those winds can rip the wings off aircraft; and Mark Twain remarked that they could roll up a tin house 'like sheet music.
' One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions, given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on, but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651361</id>
	<title>Re:NTSB is wrong</title>
	<author>Bill, Shooter of Bul</author>
	<datestamp>1247247180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's absurd. It was probably due the inability of his body to continue to supply vital organs the nutrients they require. Pretty sure it was multiple organ failure. With the brain shutting down first.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's absurd .
It was probably due the inability of his body to continue to supply vital organs the nutrients they require .
Pretty sure it was multiple organ failure .
With the brain shutting down first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's absurd.
It was probably due the inability of his body to continue to supply vital organs the nutrients they require.
Pretty sure it was multiple organ failure.
With the brain shutting down first.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651119</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651119</id>
	<title>NTSB is wrong</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247245980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sudden deceleration is what killed him.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sudden deceleration is what killed him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sudden deceleration is what killed him.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652453</id>
	<title>Its lovely in the Sierra Nevadas</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247252100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fosset was in the area because its an incredibly beautiful section of the Sierra Nevada Mountains.  I've been backpacking through there several times and have been in the area where he crashed.</p><p>This has some photos of the area, and some info on the conditions<br>http://www-ee.stanford.edu/~hellman/soaring/pics/040730South/index.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fosset was in the area because its an incredibly beautiful section of the Sierra Nevada Mountains .
I 've been backpacking through there several times and have been in the area where he crashed.This has some photos of the area , and some info on the conditionshttp : //www-ee.stanford.edu/ ~ hellman/soaring/pics/040730South/index.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fosset was in the area because its an incredibly beautiful section of the Sierra Nevada Mountains.
I've been backpacking through there several times and have been in the area where he crashed.This has some photos of the area, and some info on the conditionshttp://www-ee.stanford.edu/~hellman/soaring/pics/040730South/index.html</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651259</id>
	<title>Can a Slashdot pilot tell us . . .</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247246640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you register your flight, does the FAA (or whoever) give warnings about dangerous areas?
</p><p>During your flight does the ATC tell you, "Be careful, you are about to enter a dangerous area?"
</p><p>I guess what I want to know, is if he had a chance to know what the local pilots knew.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you register your flight , does the FAA ( or whoever ) give warnings about dangerous areas ?
During your flight does the ATC tell you , " Be careful , you are about to enter a dangerous area ?
" I guess what I want to know , is if he had a chance to know what the local pilots knew .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you register your flight, does the FAA (or whoever) give warnings about dangerous areas?
During your flight does the ATC tell you, "Be careful, you are about to enter a dangerous area?
"
I guess what I want to know, is if he had a chance to know what the local pilots knew.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652397</id>
	<title>Re:Can a Slashdot pilot tell us . . .</title>
	<author>rand.srand()</author>
	<datestamp>1247251920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Any pilot can call for a weather briefing prior to a flight, but most don't. For most private traffic, the pilot never talks to anyone other than the other pilots in the area advising what they are up to... and technically don't have to do that even if the airport doesn't have a control tower (most don't).</p><p>It is extremely unlikely that the weather briefer or ATC would inform pilots of mountain phenomena because it's like warning pilots that bright blue light shines from every possible direction when not obscured by clouds. It's just a given.</p><p>There are basics about mountain flying you are taught regardless of where you learn, and any west coast pilot has to deal with these realities if they go anywhere inside of the coast. I've fought off 400 ft/min downdrafts on flat land 800 miles from a mountain.</p><p>Fossett would have known very well about mountain waves. He would not have continued towards the peak of the mountain if he was sinking. The probable cause report doesn't really inform us of anything more valuable than "the sky is blue".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Any pilot can call for a weather briefing prior to a flight , but most do n't .
For most private traffic , the pilot never talks to anyone other than the other pilots in the area advising what they are up to... and technically do n't have to do that even if the airport does n't have a control tower ( most do n't ) .It is extremely unlikely that the weather briefer or ATC would inform pilots of mountain phenomena because it 's like warning pilots that bright blue light shines from every possible direction when not obscured by clouds .
It 's just a given.There are basics about mountain flying you are taught regardless of where you learn , and any west coast pilot has to deal with these realities if they go anywhere inside of the coast .
I 've fought off 400 ft/min downdrafts on flat land 800 miles from a mountain.Fossett would have known very well about mountain waves .
He would not have continued towards the peak of the mountain if he was sinking .
The probable cause report does n't really inform us of anything more valuable than " the sky is blue " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Any pilot can call for a weather briefing prior to a flight, but most don't.
For most private traffic, the pilot never talks to anyone other than the other pilots in the area advising what they are up to... and technically don't have to do that even if the airport doesn't have a control tower (most don't).It is extremely unlikely that the weather briefer or ATC would inform pilots of mountain phenomena because it's like warning pilots that bright blue light shines from every possible direction when not obscured by clouds.
It's just a given.There are basics about mountain flying you are taught regardless of where you learn, and any west coast pilot has to deal with these realities if they go anywhere inside of the coast.
I've fought off 400 ft/min downdrafts on flat land 800 miles from a mountain.Fossett would have known very well about mountain waves.
He would not have continued towards the peak of the mountain if he was sinking.
The probable cause report doesn't really inform us of anything more valuable than "the sky is blue".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28653749</id>
	<title>Re:Can a Slashdot pilot tell us . . .</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247257320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If your flying "general aviation" (private flying, non-commercial), then the answer is no.  Once your in the air, the ATC doesn't talk with you.  General Aviation does its own thing once their airborne. General Aviation pilots just have to stay out of restricted airspace that is used for commerical, controlled-by-ATC flights.</p> </div><p>This is so wrong in so many ways...</p><p>First, GA (general aviation) is just about everything not "airline". Corporate jets, private jets, crop dusters, all the way down to home-built experimental airplanes. It's not just "private flying" or "noncommercial".</p><p>Second, GA doesn't have to stay out of "commercial controlled-by-ATC airspace". GA uses the same airspace as everyone else. There is airspace where you MUST have an ATC clearance ("controlled by ATC"), but there is no distinction between GA and other users who can go there once you have that clearance. Most of the airspace in the country, especially in the western part, doesn't require ATC clearance unless you are flying IFR (instrument flight rules) and in IFR conditions ("the clouds").</p><p>Third, "restricted" airspace is a defined classification of airspace. It is defined as "airspace that contains some hazard, usually unseen, that creates a danger to flight". It is NOT prohibited to fly there for either GA or nonGA flights. This airspace is clearly marked on every sectional (aviation map). Again, there is no distinction between GA and nonGA flights in this airspace. The only relevance to "controlled by ATC" is that ATC will coordinate flights that it clears through restricted airspace with the controlling agency on behalf of the pilot.</p><p>And finally, ANY GA flight is capable of requesting "flight following", which is "communication with ATC", but not control. (If ATC is too busy, they can turn the request down.) That means ANY GA flight can be talking to ATC, and yes, if time permits, ATC will inform those GA flights is it voluntarily communicating with of any known problems. </p><p><div class="quote"><p>As to filing a flight path, I'm not sure whether General Aviation has to do that or not, but I am pretty sure the FAA wouldn't give them a warning based on what they filed. It's up to the pilots to make sure the area they are going to be flying in is safe, not anyone else.</p></div><p>Nobody files a "flight path", they file a "flight plan". If you are flying VFR (visual rules) within the borders of the US, it is not mandatory, but it is highly recommended for any flights away from your home airport. If you are flying IFR, you MUST file a flight plan (even if it isjust an "abbreviated one") and have an ATC clearance prior to entering IFR conditions. The only distinction related to GA vs nonGA flights in this matter is that airlines are REQUIRED to file IFR flight plans for all flights, and GA is only required to file IFR for flights in IFR conditions.</p><p>One of the requirements for making a flight is knowledge of the weather conditions, usually met by getting a weather briefing. That weather briefing is supposed to include warnings about all kinds of things, weather related (AIRMETs, SIGMETs) and otherwise (NOTAMs). It also includes "winds aloft", which combined with knowledge that you are flying in mountainous terrain, tells you to expect up and down drafts and which side of the mountain will have which. Since the FAA doesn't provide the weather briefings, no, the FAA won't give you warnings based on what you filed, but you get them in other ways.</p><p>The only thing you got right is the last sentence: it is ALWAYS the pilot's responsibility to know about the area they are flying in, and the FAR (flight regulations) make this clear. Why Steve was flying near a mountain is anybodies guess, but it is not an inherently unsafe thing to do, and even the safest things to do sometimes result in crashes.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If your flying " general aviation " ( private flying , non-commercial ) , then the answer is no .
Once your in the air , the ATC does n't talk with you .
General Aviation does its own thing once their airborne .
General Aviation pilots just have to stay out of restricted airspace that is used for commerical , controlled-by-ATC flights .
This is so wrong in so many ways...First , GA ( general aviation ) is just about everything not " airline " .
Corporate jets , private jets , crop dusters , all the way down to home-built experimental airplanes .
It 's not just " private flying " or " noncommercial " .Second , GA does n't have to stay out of " commercial controlled-by-ATC airspace " .
GA uses the same airspace as everyone else .
There is airspace where you MUST have an ATC clearance ( " controlled by ATC " ) , but there is no distinction between GA and other users who can go there once you have that clearance .
Most of the airspace in the country , especially in the western part , does n't require ATC clearance unless you are flying IFR ( instrument flight rules ) and in IFR conditions ( " the clouds " ) .Third , " restricted " airspace is a defined classification of airspace .
It is defined as " airspace that contains some hazard , usually unseen , that creates a danger to flight " .
It is NOT prohibited to fly there for either GA or nonGA flights .
This airspace is clearly marked on every sectional ( aviation map ) .
Again , there is no distinction between GA and nonGA flights in this airspace .
The only relevance to " controlled by ATC " is that ATC will coordinate flights that it clears through restricted airspace with the controlling agency on behalf of the pilot.And finally , ANY GA flight is capable of requesting " flight following " , which is " communication with ATC " , but not control .
( If ATC is too busy , they can turn the request down .
) That means ANY GA flight can be talking to ATC , and yes , if time permits , ATC will inform those GA flights is it voluntarily communicating with of any known problems .
As to filing a flight path , I 'm not sure whether General Aviation has to do that or not , but I am pretty sure the FAA would n't give them a warning based on what they filed .
It 's up to the pilots to make sure the area they are going to be flying in is safe , not anyone else.Nobody files a " flight path " , they file a " flight plan " .
If you are flying VFR ( visual rules ) within the borders of the US , it is not mandatory , but it is highly recommended for any flights away from your home airport .
If you are flying IFR , you MUST file a flight plan ( even if it isjust an " abbreviated one " ) and have an ATC clearance prior to entering IFR conditions .
The only distinction related to GA vs nonGA flights in this matter is that airlines are REQUIRED to file IFR flight plans for all flights , and GA is only required to file IFR for flights in IFR conditions.One of the requirements for making a flight is knowledge of the weather conditions , usually met by getting a weather briefing .
That weather briefing is supposed to include warnings about all kinds of things , weather related ( AIRMETs , SIGMETs ) and otherwise ( NOTAMs ) .
It also includes " winds aloft " , which combined with knowledge that you are flying in mountainous terrain , tells you to expect up and down drafts and which side of the mountain will have which .
Since the FAA does n't provide the weather briefings , no , the FAA wo n't give you warnings based on what you filed , but you get them in other ways.The only thing you got right is the last sentence : it is ALWAYS the pilot 's responsibility to know about the area they are flying in , and the FAR ( flight regulations ) make this clear .
Why Steve was flying near a mountain is anybodies guess , but it is not an inherently unsafe thing to do , and even the safest things to do sometimes result in crashes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your flying "general aviation" (private flying, non-commercial), then the answer is no.
Once your in the air, the ATC doesn't talk with you.
General Aviation does its own thing once their airborne.
General Aviation pilots just have to stay out of restricted airspace that is used for commerical, controlled-by-ATC flights.
This is so wrong in so many ways...First, GA (general aviation) is just about everything not "airline".
Corporate jets, private jets, crop dusters, all the way down to home-built experimental airplanes.
It's not just "private flying" or "noncommercial".Second, GA doesn't have to stay out of "commercial controlled-by-ATC airspace".
GA uses the same airspace as everyone else.
There is airspace where you MUST have an ATC clearance ("controlled by ATC"), but there is no distinction between GA and other users who can go there once you have that clearance.
Most of the airspace in the country, especially in the western part, doesn't require ATC clearance unless you are flying IFR (instrument flight rules) and in IFR conditions ("the clouds").Third, "restricted" airspace is a defined classification of airspace.
It is defined as "airspace that contains some hazard, usually unseen, that creates a danger to flight".
It is NOT prohibited to fly there for either GA or nonGA flights.
This airspace is clearly marked on every sectional (aviation map).
Again, there is no distinction between GA and nonGA flights in this airspace.
The only relevance to "controlled by ATC" is that ATC will coordinate flights that it clears through restricted airspace with the controlling agency on behalf of the pilot.And finally, ANY GA flight is capable of requesting "flight following", which is "communication with ATC", but not control.
(If ATC is too busy, they can turn the request down.
) That means ANY GA flight can be talking to ATC, and yes, if time permits, ATC will inform those GA flights is it voluntarily communicating with of any known problems.
As to filing a flight path, I'm not sure whether General Aviation has to do that or not, but I am pretty sure the FAA wouldn't give them a warning based on what they filed.
It's up to the pilots to make sure the area they are going to be flying in is safe, not anyone else.Nobody files a "flight path", they file a "flight plan".
If you are flying VFR (visual rules) within the borders of the US, it is not mandatory, but it is highly recommended for any flights away from your home airport.
If you are flying IFR, you MUST file a flight plan (even if it isjust an "abbreviated one") and have an ATC clearance prior to entering IFR conditions.
The only distinction related to GA vs nonGA flights in this matter is that airlines are REQUIRED to file IFR flight plans for all flights, and GA is only required to file IFR for flights in IFR conditions.One of the requirements for making a flight is knowledge of the weather conditions, usually met by getting a weather briefing.
That weather briefing is supposed to include warnings about all kinds of things, weather related (AIRMETs, SIGMETs) and otherwise (NOTAMs).
It also includes "winds aloft", which combined with knowledge that you are flying in mountainous terrain, tells you to expect up and down drafts and which side of the mountain will have which.
Since the FAA doesn't provide the weather briefings, no, the FAA won't give you warnings based on what you filed, but you get them in other ways.The only thing you got right is the last sentence: it is ALWAYS the pilot's responsibility to know about the area they are flying in, and the FAR (flight regulations) make this clear.
Why Steve was flying near a mountain is anybodies guess, but it is not an inherently unsafe thing to do, and even the safest things to do sometimes result in crashes.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28654093</id>
	<title>Re:NTSB is wrong</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247259060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know you are joking, but evidence suggests he survived the initial impact.  Just saying.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know you are joking , but evidence suggests he survived the initial impact .
Just saying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know you are joking, but evidence suggests he survived the initial impact.
Just saying.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651119</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651051</id>
	<title>With due respect</title>
	<author>mewsenews</author>
	<datestamp>1247245560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To Mr. Fossett,</p><p>"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next."<br>
&nbsp; -- Ursula K. LeGuin</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To Mr. Fossett , " The only thing that makes life possible is permanent , intolerable uncertainty ; not knowing what comes next .
"   -- Ursula K. LeGuin</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To Mr. Fossett,"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next.
"
  -- Ursula K. LeGuin</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651891</id>
	<title>Re:SO uh, when did Mark Twain have a plane?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247250120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's probably why he commented on a tin house rather than an aircraft.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's probably why he commented on a tin house rather than an aircraft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's probably why he commented on a tin house rather than an aircraft.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651601</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28653557</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247256480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are old pilots<br>There are bold pilots<br>But there are no old, bold pilots?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are old pilotsThere are bold pilotsBut there are no old , bold pilots ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are old pilotsThere are bold pilotsBut there are no old, bold pilots?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651223</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652085</id>
	<title>Re:Can a Slashdot pilot tell us . . .</title>
	<author>Colonel Korn</author>
	<datestamp>1247250840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If your flying "general aviation" (private flying, non-commercial), then the answer is no.  Once your in the air, the ATC doesn't talk with you.  General Aviation does its own thing once their airborne. General Aviation pilots just have to stay out of restricted airspace that is used for commerical, controlled-by-ATC flights.  As to filing a flight path, I'm not sure whether General Aviation has to do that or not, but I am pretty sure the FAA wouldn't give them a warning based on what they filed. It's up to the pilots to make sure the area they are going to be flying in is safe, not anyone else.</p></div><p>Most of the pilots I knew who follow your description and didn't get flight following for their private flights have crashed their own planes.  Usually they didn't die to traffic, but it was part of a pattern of carelessness (landing with no lights at night is common among this same group).</p><p>You're correct that private pilots aren't required to file flight plans, but when flying away from population centers most do anyway.  It's true that it's up to the pilots to ensure their own safety and there are plenty of ways to do it.  A combination of a well planned route and a review of the current weather before take off will do the trick.  Unfortunately, a lot of pilots don't like to do either.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If your flying " general aviation " ( private flying , non-commercial ) , then the answer is no .
Once your in the air , the ATC does n't talk with you .
General Aviation does its own thing once their airborne .
General Aviation pilots just have to stay out of restricted airspace that is used for commerical , controlled-by-ATC flights .
As to filing a flight path , I 'm not sure whether General Aviation has to do that or not , but I am pretty sure the FAA would n't give them a warning based on what they filed .
It 's up to the pilots to make sure the area they are going to be flying in is safe , not anyone else.Most of the pilots I knew who follow your description and did n't get flight following for their private flights have crashed their own planes .
Usually they did n't die to traffic , but it was part of a pattern of carelessness ( landing with no lights at night is common among this same group ) .You 're correct that private pilots are n't required to file flight plans , but when flying away from population centers most do anyway .
It 's true that it 's up to the pilots to ensure their own safety and there are plenty of ways to do it .
A combination of a well planned route and a review of the current weather before take off will do the trick .
Unfortunately , a lot of pilots do n't like to do either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your flying "general aviation" (private flying, non-commercial), then the answer is no.
Once your in the air, the ATC doesn't talk with you.
General Aviation does its own thing once their airborne.
General Aviation pilots just have to stay out of restricted airspace that is used for commerical, controlled-by-ATC flights.
As to filing a flight path, I'm not sure whether General Aviation has to do that or not, but I am pretty sure the FAA wouldn't give them a warning based on what they filed.
It's up to the pilots to make sure the area they are going to be flying in is safe, not anyone else.Most of the pilots I knew who follow your description and didn't get flight following for their private flights have crashed their own planes.
Usually they didn't die to traffic, but it was part of a pattern of carelessness (landing with no lights at night is common among this same group).You're correct that private pilots aren't required to file flight plans, but when flying away from population centers most do anyway.
It's true that it's up to the pilots to ensure their own safety and there are plenty of ways to do it.
A combination of a well planned route and a review of the current weather before take off will do the trick.
Unfortunately, a lot of pilots don't like to do either.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652139</id>
	<title>Re:Mountain Wave Action</title>
	<author>auric\_dude</author>
	<datestamp>1247251020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is this anything like Dynamic Soaring as undertaken by some sea birds <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic\_soaring" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic\_soaring</a> [wikipedia.org] and those seeking more speed for radio controlled model gliders <a href="http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/06/dont-blink-400mph-rc-gliders-tear-through-the-air/" title="wired.com">http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/06/dont-blink-400mph-rc-gliders-tear-through-the-air/</a> [wired.com]?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this anything like Dynamic Soaring as undertaken by some sea birds http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic \ _soaring [ wikipedia.org ] and those seeking more speed for radio controlled model gliders http : //www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/06/dont-blink-400mph-rc-gliders-tear-through-the-air/ [ wired.com ] ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this anything like Dynamic Soaring as undertaken by some sea birds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic\_soaring [wikipedia.org] and those seeking more speed for radio controlled model gliders http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/06/dont-blink-400mph-rc-gliders-tear-through-the-air/ [wired.com]?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651347</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28653701</id>
	<title>Re:Can a Slashdot pilot tell us . . .</title>
	<author>wsanders</author>
	<datestamp>1247257020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Specifically, the answer is no. Flight plans are filed online.</p><p>Even in the days of personalized weather briefings, you not always warned, you had to ask, because it's the pilot's sole responsibility to gather all information relative to the safety of the flight.</p><p>I haven't flown recently, but NOTAMs would usually be issued about particularly dangerous weather days. But in a Super Decathlon over the eastern slope of the Sierra Nevada, every day is a potentially dangerous day. Your're going about two miles per minute, with a rate of climb of 400 feet per minute. If you suddenly see a 500 foot cliff dead ahead, and you can't make a 180, you're probably not going to be able to make it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Specifically , the answer is no .
Flight plans are filed online.Even in the days of personalized weather briefings , you not always warned , you had to ask , because it 's the pilot 's sole responsibility to gather all information relative to the safety of the flight.I have n't flown recently , but NOTAMs would usually be issued about particularly dangerous weather days .
But in a Super Decathlon over the eastern slope of the Sierra Nevada , every day is a potentially dangerous day .
Your 're going about two miles per minute , with a rate of climb of 400 feet per minute .
If you suddenly see a 500 foot cliff dead ahead , and you ca n't make a 180 , you 're probably not going to be able to make it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Specifically, the answer is no.
Flight plans are filed online.Even in the days of personalized weather briefings, you not always warned, you had to ask, because it's the pilot's sole responsibility to gather all information relative to the safety of the flight.I haven't flown recently, but NOTAMs would usually be issued about particularly dangerous weather days.
But in a Super Decathlon over the eastern slope of the Sierra Nevada, every day is a potentially dangerous day.
Your're going about two miles per minute, with a rate of climb of 400 feet per minute.
If you suddenly see a 500 foot cliff dead ahead, and you can't make a 180, you're probably not going to be able to make it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28653415</id>
	<title>Every pilot in California and Nevada knows</title>
	<author>wsanders</author>
	<datestamp>1247255940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to fly out of the Bay Area, and the club I flew with specifically prohibited us from flying over the Sierra without supplemental training. Every pilot in California and Nevada is usually trained of the danger, not to cross the Sierra without several thousand fleet of ground clearance.</p><p>And when I took hang gliding lessons, there were many many stories of pilots who tried to fly the huge lift coming off the eastern slope, only to return to earth under a parachute with pieces of their broken gliders falling all around them.</p><p>Mountain flying can be tricky - one of my flight instructors was killed several years ago in the Rockies, flew into the end of a canyon. He was not a risk taker, and had been regularly flying between the Bay Area and Lake Tahoe for many years,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to fly out of the Bay Area , and the club I flew with specifically prohibited us from flying over the Sierra without supplemental training .
Every pilot in California and Nevada is usually trained of the danger , not to cross the Sierra without several thousand fleet of ground clearance.And when I took hang gliding lessons , there were many many stories of pilots who tried to fly the huge lift coming off the eastern slope , only to return to earth under a parachute with pieces of their broken gliders falling all around them.Mountain flying can be tricky - one of my flight instructors was killed several years ago in the Rockies , flew into the end of a canyon .
He was not a risk taker , and had been regularly flying between the Bay Area and Lake Tahoe for many years,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to fly out of the Bay Area, and the club I flew with specifically prohibited us from flying over the Sierra without supplemental training.
Every pilot in California and Nevada is usually trained of the danger, not to cross the Sierra without several thousand fleet of ground clearance.And when I took hang gliding lessons, there were many many stories of pilots who tried to fly the huge lift coming off the eastern slope, only to return to earth under a parachute with pieces of their broken gliders falling all around them.Mountain flying can be tricky - one of my flight instructors was killed several years ago in the Rockies, flew into the end of a canyon.
He was not a risk taker, and had been regularly flying between the Bay Area and Lake Tahoe for many years,</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651241</id>
	<title>Um, obvious speculation?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247246520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions, given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on, but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to.</i></p><p>I wondered, but in about a second I came up with this:  An adventurer and thrill-seeker, in the course of looking for a place for future thrill-seeking, decided to seek some thrills?</p><p>Sure it's just idle speculation...  but based on what little I know of the man, taking gambles with danger while tooling around alone in his private plane sounds exactly like something he would do.  It makes enough sense for me, at least.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions , given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on , but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to.I wondered , but in about a second I came up with this : An adventurer and thrill-seeker , in the course of looking for a place for future thrill-seeking , decided to seek some thrills ? Sure it 's just idle speculation... but based on what little I know of the man , taking gambles with danger while tooling around alone in his private plane sounds exactly like something he would do .
It makes enough sense for me , at least .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions, given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on, but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to.I wondered, but in about a second I came up with this:  An adventurer and thrill-seeker, in the course of looking for a place for future thrill-seeking, decided to seek some thrills?Sure it's just idle speculation...  but based on what little I know of the man, taking gambles with danger while tooling around alone in his private plane sounds exactly like something he would do.
It makes enough sense for me, at least.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652245</id>
	<title>Re:Can a Slashdot pilot tell us . . .</title>
	<author>kckman</author>
	<datestamp>1247251320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mod me troll.. but the improper use of "their" and "your" really gets under my skin.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mod me troll.. but the improper use of " their " and " your " really gets under my skin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mod me troll.. but the improper use of "their" and "your" really gets under my skin.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651853</id>
	<title>Re:Mountain Wave Action</title>
	<author>TooMuchToDo</author>
	<datestamp>1247249880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If "stuck" in one of these downdraft waves, is it possible to 180 to go with the wave and pick up airspeed?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If " stuck " in one of these downdraft waves , is it possible to 180 to go with the wave and pick up airspeed ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If "stuck" in one of these downdraft waves, is it possible to 180 to go with the wave and pick up airspeed?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651347</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652093</id>
	<title>Re:Mountain Wave Action</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247250840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually could have gotten caught in a rotor that developed. Equivalent to a wave crashing on a shore - instead it is air crashing in the atmosphere. They can be incredibly violent and easily rop airplanes apart.</p><p>Here is some info on a field project trying to find out more about this phenomenon...</p><p>http://www.eol.ucar.edu/projects/TREX/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually could have gotten caught in a rotor that developed .
Equivalent to a wave crashing on a shore - instead it is air crashing in the atmosphere .
They can be incredibly violent and easily rop airplanes apart.Here is some info on a field project trying to find out more about this phenomenon...http : //www.eol.ucar.edu/projects/TREX/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually could have gotten caught in a rotor that developed.
Equivalent to a wave crashing on a shore - instead it is air crashing in the atmosphere.
They can be incredibly violent and easily rop airplanes apart.Here is some info on a field project trying to find out more about this phenomenon...http://www.eol.ucar.edu/projects/TREX/</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651347</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651347</id>
	<title>Mountain Wave Action</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247247120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The proper term for what they're describing is a mountain wave or wave action.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee\_wave" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee\_wave</a> [wikipedia.org] contains a good description of the effect.</p><p>Mountain waves can be felt in small piston powered aircraft even flying significantly above the tops of the mountains, even several thousand feet above the peaks on either side of the valley you're crossing.</p><p>If you're holding altitude, you see that you speed up when you're crossing falling terrain and slow down when you're crossing rising terrain -- because as you cross the rising terrain, you're in the downdraft and so to maintain altitude, your airplane "feels" like it has to climb to stay at the same altitude in the falling air.  Climbing requires additional power over simple cruise flight, or you slow down.</p><p>I've seen airspeed of an aircraft that should cruise at 150 knots, range from 90-180 knots, depending on whether you're on the uphill or downhill side of the wave.  In severe conditions, you just cant' maintain altitude without slowing down too much, and you have to vary altitude to ride the waves.</p><p>It can be a scary experience knowing you don't have enough power to out-climb the wave -- That's the reason that you typically fly significantly higher in the mountains, even with good visibility -- You're not worried about hitting the mountains because you can't see them, you're worried about getting sucked by these waves and not having enough altitude to ride them out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The proper term for what they 're describing is a mountain wave or wave action .
http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee \ _wave [ wikipedia.org ] contains a good description of the effect.Mountain waves can be felt in small piston powered aircraft even flying significantly above the tops of the mountains , even several thousand feet above the peaks on either side of the valley you 're crossing.If you 're holding altitude , you see that you speed up when you 're crossing falling terrain and slow down when you 're crossing rising terrain -- because as you cross the rising terrain , you 're in the downdraft and so to maintain altitude , your airplane " feels " like it has to climb to stay at the same altitude in the falling air .
Climbing requires additional power over simple cruise flight , or you slow down.I 've seen airspeed of an aircraft that should cruise at 150 knots , range from 90-180 knots , depending on whether you 're on the uphill or downhill side of the wave .
In severe conditions , you just cant ' maintain altitude without slowing down too much , and you have to vary altitude to ride the waves.It can be a scary experience knowing you do n't have enough power to out-climb the wave -- That 's the reason that you typically fly significantly higher in the mountains , even with good visibility -- You 're not worried about hitting the mountains because you ca n't see them , you 're worried about getting sucked by these waves and not having enough altitude to ride them out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The proper term for what they're describing is a mountain wave or wave action.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee\_wave [wikipedia.org] contains a good description of the effect.Mountain waves can be felt in small piston powered aircraft even flying significantly above the tops of the mountains, even several thousand feet above the peaks on either side of the valley you're crossing.If you're holding altitude, you see that you speed up when you're crossing falling terrain and slow down when you're crossing rising terrain -- because as you cross the rising terrain, you're in the downdraft and so to maintain altitude, your airplane "feels" like it has to climb to stay at the same altitude in the falling air.
Climbing requires additional power over simple cruise flight, or you slow down.I've seen airspeed of an aircraft that should cruise at 150 knots, range from 90-180 knots, depending on whether you're on the uphill or downhill side of the wave.
In severe conditions, you just cant' maintain altitude without slowing down too much, and you have to vary altitude to ride the waves.It can be a scary experience knowing you don't have enough power to out-climb the wave -- That's the reason that you typically fly significantly higher in the mountains, even with good visibility -- You're not worried about hitting the mountains because you can't see them, you're worried about getting sucked by these waves and not having enough altitude to ride them out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28661575</id>
	<title>Re:Steve Fossett really deserved to die</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247337840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When a man has a fight with his wife and then goes off to fly, he just might not be thinking as well as usual.  AND it is my understanding that that is what happened.</p><p>Fossett did not deserve to die.  What a very mean-hearted statement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When a man has a fight with his wife and then goes off to fly , he just might not be thinking as well as usual .
AND it is my understanding that that is what happened.Fossett did not deserve to die .
What a very mean-hearted statement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When a man has a fight with his wife and then goes off to fly, he just might not be thinking as well as usual.
AND it is my understanding that that is what happened.Fossett did not deserve to die.
What a very mean-hearted statement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652935</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651605</id>
	<title>Rule #1</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247248560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>DON'T fly piston-driven aircraft.</p><p>Yours Aerodynamically,<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiciGIsX7ss" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">Kilgore Trout</a> [youtube.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DO N'T fly piston-driven aircraft.Yours Aerodynamically,Kilgore Trout [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DON'T fly piston-driven aircraft.Yours Aerodynamically,Kilgore Trout [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651127</id>
	<title>Taking a gamble with such hostile conditions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247245980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All aviation is taking a gamble with gravity. If a potential for a downdraft anywhere became a limiting factor, no one would ever leave the ground.</p><p>Even in the best situations with the most accomplished pilots, the atmosphere can still prove a greater force than our best technology and minds. And these forces can crop up in any place and time, even with the best weather reports.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All aviation is taking a gamble with gravity .
If a potential for a downdraft anywhere became a limiting factor , no one would ever leave the ground.Even in the best situations with the most accomplished pilots , the atmosphere can still prove a greater force than our best technology and minds .
And these forces can crop up in any place and time , even with the best weather reports .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All aviation is taking a gamble with gravity.
If a potential for a downdraft anywhere became a limiting factor, no one would ever leave the ground.Even in the best situations with the most accomplished pilots, the atmosphere can still prove a greater force than our best technology and minds.
And these forces can crop up in any place and time, even with the best weather reports.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28654325</id>
	<title>Re:Mountain Wave Action</title>
	<author>not-my-real-name</author>
	<datestamp>1247217000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Mountain waves can be felt in small piston powered aircraft even flying significantly above the tops of the mountains, even several thousand feet above the peaks on either side of the valley you're crossing.</p></div><p>A friend of mine who is an airline pilot tells of feeling the effect in an A320 at cruising altitude - think 30,000 feet or so.  The autothrottles come back when you're in the lift part and then push forward when you get out of the lift.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mountain waves can be felt in small piston powered aircraft even flying significantly above the tops of the mountains , even several thousand feet above the peaks on either side of the valley you 're crossing.A friend of mine who is an airline pilot tells of feeling the effect in an A320 at cruising altitude - think 30,000 feet or so .
The autothrottles come back when you 're in the lift part and then push forward when you get out of the lift .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mountain waves can be felt in small piston powered aircraft even flying significantly above the tops of the mountains, even several thousand feet above the peaks on either side of the valley you're crossing.A friend of mine who is an airline pilot tells of feeling the effect in an A320 at cruising altitude - think 30,000 feet or so.
The autothrottles come back when you're in the lift part and then push forward when you get out of the lift.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651347</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28653273</id>
	<title>Interesting Omission re Oxygen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247255340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's interesting that the brief linked to mentions radar hits with readouts of 14500 and 14900 feet but doesn't say anything about whether the aircraft was equipped with an O2 system or not. Above 12500 the pilot would be required to use supplemental O2 by FAR. Extended periods near 15000 without oxygen would definitely set you up for impaired judgement. Maybe it's considered in another document but it's not in the brief.</p><p>In contrast, the NTSB specifically mentioned lack of supplemental O2 in another crash: <a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009415709\_webntsb04.html" title="nwsource.com">http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009415709\_webntsb04.html</a> [nwsource.com] </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's interesting that the brief linked to mentions radar hits with readouts of 14500 and 14900 feet but does n't say anything about whether the aircraft was equipped with an O2 system or not .
Above 12500 the pilot would be required to use supplemental O2 by FAR .
Extended periods near 15000 without oxygen would definitely set you up for impaired judgement .
Maybe it 's considered in another document but it 's not in the brief.In contrast , the NTSB specifically mentioned lack of supplemental O2 in another crash : http : //seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009415709 \ _webntsb04.html [ nwsource.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's interesting that the brief linked to mentions radar hits with readouts of 14500 and 14900 feet but doesn't say anything about whether the aircraft was equipped with an O2 system or not.
Above 12500 the pilot would be required to use supplemental O2 by FAR.
Extended periods near 15000 without oxygen would definitely set you up for impaired judgement.
Maybe it's considered in another document but it's not in the brief.In contrast, the NTSB specifically mentioned lack of supplemental O2 in another crash: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009415709\_webntsb04.html [nwsource.com] </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651419</id>
	<title>Re:Can a Slashdot pilot tell us . . .</title>
	<author>ubergamer1337</author>
	<datestamp>1247247420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If your flying "general aviation" (private flying, non-commercial), then the answer is no.  Once your in the air, the ATC doesn't talk with you.  General Aviation does its own thing once their airborne. General Aviation pilots just have to stay out of restricted airspace that is used for commerical, controlled-by-ATC flights.  As to filing a flight path, I'm not sure whether General Aviation has to do that or not, but I am pretty sure the FAA wouldn't give them a warning based on what they filed. It's up to the pilots to make sure the area they are going to be flying in is safe, not anyone else.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If your flying " general aviation " ( private flying , non-commercial ) , then the answer is no .
Once your in the air , the ATC does n't talk with you .
General Aviation does its own thing once their airborne .
General Aviation pilots just have to stay out of restricted airspace that is used for commerical , controlled-by-ATC flights .
As to filing a flight path , I 'm not sure whether General Aviation has to do that or not , but I am pretty sure the FAA would n't give them a warning based on what they filed .
It 's up to the pilots to make sure the area they are going to be flying in is safe , not anyone else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If your flying "general aviation" (private flying, non-commercial), then the answer is no.
Once your in the air, the ATC doesn't talk with you.
General Aviation does its own thing once their airborne.
General Aviation pilots just have to stay out of restricted airspace that is used for commerical, controlled-by-ATC flights.
As to filing a flight path, I'm not sure whether General Aviation has to do that or not, but I am pretty sure the FAA wouldn't give them a warning based on what they filed.
It's up to the pilots to make sure the area they are going to be flying in is safe, not anyone else.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651803</id>
	<title>Re:Can a Slashdot pilot tell us . . .</title>
	<author>CompMD</author>
	<datestamp>1247249760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>He should have known about the possibility for dangerous winds given the area.  He was probably flying VFR, instead of having filed an IFR flight plan, which is part of the reason it took so long to find him.  He should have called a weather briefer before taking off to get the weather conditions and forecast for his trip.  In flight he could have contacted FlightWatch for more up-to-date weather in case he noticed things were changing.</p><p>Keep in mind that rarely does a single event cause an airplane crash.  It is quite often a series events culminating in a situation in which the pilot has no chance to save himself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>He should have known about the possibility for dangerous winds given the area .
He was probably flying VFR , instead of having filed an IFR flight plan , which is part of the reason it took so long to find him .
He should have called a weather briefer before taking off to get the weather conditions and forecast for his trip .
In flight he could have contacted FlightWatch for more up-to-date weather in case he noticed things were changing.Keep in mind that rarely does a single event cause an airplane crash .
It is quite often a series events culminating in a situation in which the pilot has no chance to save himself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He should have known about the possibility for dangerous winds given the area.
He was probably flying VFR, instead of having filed an IFR flight plan, which is part of the reason it took so long to find him.
He should have called a weather briefer before taking off to get the weather conditions and forecast for his trip.
In flight he could have contacted FlightWatch for more up-to-date weather in case he noticed things were changing.Keep in mind that rarely does a single event cause an airplane crash.
It is quite often a series events culminating in a situation in which the pilot has no chance to save himself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652529</id>
	<title>Re:Um, obvious speculation?</title>
	<author>Lil'wombat</author>
	<datestamp>1247252460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are BOLD pilots<br>There are OLD pilots</p><p>But there are no OLD BOLD pilots</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are BOLD pilotsThere are OLD pilotsBut there are no OLD BOLD pilots</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are BOLD pilotsThere are OLD pilotsBut there are no OLD BOLD pilots</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651241</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652761</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>insnprsn</author>
	<datestamp>1247253420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Geronimo" ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Geronimo " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Geronimo" ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650981</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>Sir\_Lewk</author>
	<datestamp>1247245260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps they've seen wreckage where it was evident that's what happened.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps they 've seen wreckage where it was evident that 's what happened .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps they've seen wreckage where it was evident that's what happened.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652901</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1247253900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps lucky and experienced pilots witnessed a less lucky nearby pilot having the wings ripped off of his plane or slightly less lucky pilots had their planes severely damaged but made it back to the ground safely and then concluded based on the damage that another unfortunate encounter would have done them in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps lucky and experienced pilots witnessed a less lucky nearby pilot having the wings ripped off of his plane or slightly less lucky pilots had their planes severely damaged but made it back to the ground safely and then concluded based on the damage that another unfortunate encounter would have done them in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps lucky and experienced pilots witnessed a less lucky nearby pilot having the wings ripped off of his plane or slightly less lucky pilots had their planes severely damaged but made it back to the ground safely and then concluded based on the damage that another unfortunate encounter would have done them in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651183</id>
	<title>Insulting summary</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247246280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions, given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on, but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to."</p></div><p>Stated as though it was soooo-oo obvious that eeeveryone knew not to fly in that area.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions , given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on , but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to .
" Stated as though it was soooo-oo obvious that eeeveryone knew not to fly in that area .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions, given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on, but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to.
"Stated as though it was soooo-oo obvious that eeeveryone knew not to fly in that area.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</id>
	<title>One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>qoncept</author>
	<datestamp>1247244540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>One must wonder<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>...how pilots experienced in the area and are <i>still alive</i> know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>One must wonder ......how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One must wonder ......how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652159</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>Ash Vince</author>
	<datestamp>1247251080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?</p></div><p>Parachutes?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane ? Parachutes ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> ...how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?Parachutes?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28658289</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>Martin Hellman</author>
	<datestamp>1247344140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?"

In the incident I know best, the pilot parachuted and survived, though I believe he suffered significant injuries. See page 36 in

<a href="http://www.quovadis-aero.com/pdf\_ext/2004\_winning\_on\_the\_wave.pdf" title="quovadis-aero.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.quovadis-aero.com/pdf\_ext/2004\_winning\_on\_the\_wave.pdf</a> [quovadis-aero.com]

for a description. But that describes a very different day in terms of wind conditions compared to the day Fossett was killed.

The article referenced above is describing strong mountain wave when the winds were probably averaging 50-75 kts, with local gusts significantly higher. In contrast, the NTSB report indicates that the winds on Fossett's accident day were averaging less than 20 kts, with gusts (at the mountain top level) to almost 50 kts. That's a big difference in wind conditions and, as the NTSB reports, the accident was probably caused by a downdraft (possibly induced by a strong gust interacting with the terrain), not an in-flight breakup.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane ?
" In the incident I know best , the pilot parachuted and survived , though I believe he suffered significant injuries .
See page 36 in http : //www.quovadis-aero.com/pdf \ _ext/2004 \ _winning \ _on \ _the \ _wave.pdf [ quovadis-aero.com ] for a description .
But that describes a very different day in terms of wind conditions compared to the day Fossett was killed .
The article referenced above is describing strong mountain wave when the winds were probably averaging 50-75 kts , with local gusts significantly higher .
In contrast , the NTSB report indicates that the winds on Fossett 's accident day were averaging less than 20 kts , with gusts ( at the mountain top level ) to almost 50 kts .
That 's a big difference in wind conditions and , as the NTSB reports , the accident was probably caused by a downdraft ( possibly induced by a strong gust interacting with the terrain ) , not an in-flight breakup .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?
"

In the incident I know best, the pilot parachuted and survived, though I believe he suffered significant injuries.
See page 36 in

http://www.quovadis-aero.com/pdf\_ext/2004\_winning\_on\_the\_wave.pdf [quovadis-aero.com]

for a description.
But that describes a very different day in terms of wind conditions compared to the day Fossett was killed.
The article referenced above is describing strong mountain wave when the winds were probably averaging 50-75 kts, with local gusts significantly higher.
In contrast, the NTSB report indicates that the winds on Fossett's accident day were averaging less than 20 kts, with gusts (at the mountain top level) to almost 50 kts.
That's a big difference in wind conditions and, as the NTSB reports, the accident was probably caused by a downdraft (possibly induced by a strong gust interacting with the terrain), not an in-flight breakup.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28653025</id>
	<title>Steep ridges = fast winds</title>
	<author>wangerx</author>
	<datestamp>1247254260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From experience, the steeper the ridges the greater the impact. My old partner picked me up at my local airstrip in a Piper Tri Pacer (a lighter, tube and fabric airplane). We had to climb and then cross perpendicular to the ridge line, the least you can do to avoid the well known affects of a hill that rises 1000' in less than a mile. Even though we had at least 500' above the ridge, it was a bumpy ride. And when we were well past ridge face, it tipped us really hard and really fast! Thank god for padded radio headsets! It tipped us past 45 degrees in a fraction of second, with the window hitting my head and rang my bell some.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From experience , the steeper the ridges the greater the impact .
My old partner picked me up at my local airstrip in a Piper Tri Pacer ( a lighter , tube and fabric airplane ) .
We had to climb and then cross perpendicular to the ridge line , the least you can do to avoid the well known affects of a hill that rises 1000 ' in less than a mile .
Even though we had at least 500 ' above the ridge , it was a bumpy ride .
And when we were well past ridge face , it tipped us really hard and really fast !
Thank god for padded radio headsets !
It tipped us past 45 degrees in a fraction of second , with the window hitting my head and rang my bell some .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From experience, the steeper the ridges the greater the impact.
My old partner picked me up at my local airstrip in a Piper Tri Pacer (a lighter, tube and fabric airplane).
We had to climb and then cross perpendicular to the ridge line, the least you can do to avoid the well known affects of a hill that rises 1000' in less than a mile.
Even though we had at least 500' above the ridge, it was a bumpy ride.
And when we were well past ridge face, it tipped us really hard and really fast!
Thank god for padded radio headsets!
It tipped us past 45 degrees in a fraction of second, with the window hitting my head and rang my bell some.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651347</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651767</id>
	<title>And if the wave don't getcha...</title>
	<author>Peter Simpson</author>
	<datestamp>1247249520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The turbulence on the downstream side of the mountain peak, the "rotor", will!</p><p>Just like in a stream, you can get trapped on the downflow side.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The turbulence on the downstream side of the mountain peak , the " rotor " , will ! Just like in a stream , you can get trapped on the downflow side .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The turbulence on the downstream side of the mountain peak, the "rotor", will!Just like in a stream, you can get trapped on the downflow side.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651347</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652135</id>
	<title>Re:Mountain Wave Action</title>
	<author>smellsofbikes</author>
	<datestamp>1247251020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Mountain flying is technically challenging -- as challenging for an experienced pilot, as just flying is for a person who doesn't know how to fly.  There are a lot of things you do when you train in mountain flying to minimize your risk, but if you're in a small piston-engined plane, there are a lot of places where you just don' t know what the best plan is, so you have to make a quick decision and hope you were right.<br>
First off: fly down valleys, not up them.  That's not always possible, though: you sort of have to fly up one valley to go over the pass and fly down the next.
Another is you don't fly up the middle of a valley.  You fly up one side, so that you have room to make a quick turn if you find that you're in a narrow bit of the valley and you need to get out.  But here's the tradeoff: there are sometimes strong upslope/downslope winds along the valley sides, so by preserving your ability to turn, you might run into an intense downdraft.  (Generally, winds are faster, the higher you go, but in valley conditions, downslope winds known as foehn or scirroco winds tend to be intense right around the valley itself, particularly if you're flying up an old glacial valley with hanging valleys intersecting it: there are these big cold air currents flowing down them just like water would and pouring down into the main valley.)<br>
Likewise, once you're in a downdraft you have to make some hard decisions.  You pull the nose up to best angle of climb, full power, and you hold it.  What if you're aiming right towards a big rock?  If you turn, your stall speed increases, and you're already fairly close to stall speed, so you have to weigh reducing your angle of climb (which in a microburst or downdraft means increasing your speed towards the ground) to make the turn, vs. trying to ride out your current heading and hoping you'll miss that big object.  You don't know, a priori, which one is going to work.  Maybe you'll break out of the downdraft.  Maybe it's worse over there where you're about to turn.  That's where skill, experience, and lots and lots of luck come into play.<br>
Where I live, sometimes the clouds from the mountain waves are visible in long rows at over 25,000 feet elevation, in lines for a hundred miles downwind of the mountains themselves, and every one of those is strong enough to shake a plane like a ragdoll.  A B-52 bomber <a href="http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.aviation.military/2007-07/msg01223.html" title="derkeiler.com">had its vertical tail ripped off and lost part of a wing</a> [derkeiler.com] in clear air turbulence 5000 feet above the nearest mountain.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Mountain flying is technically challenging -- as challenging for an experienced pilot , as just flying is for a person who does n't know how to fly .
There are a lot of things you do when you train in mountain flying to minimize your risk , but if you 're in a small piston-engined plane , there are a lot of places where you just don ' t know what the best plan is , so you have to make a quick decision and hope you were right .
First off : fly down valleys , not up them .
That 's not always possible , though : you sort of have to fly up one valley to go over the pass and fly down the next .
Another is you do n't fly up the middle of a valley .
You fly up one side , so that you have room to make a quick turn if you find that you 're in a narrow bit of the valley and you need to get out .
But here 's the tradeoff : there are sometimes strong upslope/downslope winds along the valley sides , so by preserving your ability to turn , you might run into an intense downdraft .
( Generally , winds are faster , the higher you go , but in valley conditions , downslope winds known as foehn or scirroco winds tend to be intense right around the valley itself , particularly if you 're flying up an old glacial valley with hanging valleys intersecting it : there are these big cold air currents flowing down them just like water would and pouring down into the main valley .
) Likewise , once you 're in a downdraft you have to make some hard decisions .
You pull the nose up to best angle of climb , full power , and you hold it .
What if you 're aiming right towards a big rock ?
If you turn , your stall speed increases , and you 're already fairly close to stall speed , so you have to weigh reducing your angle of climb ( which in a microburst or downdraft means increasing your speed towards the ground ) to make the turn , vs. trying to ride out your current heading and hoping you 'll miss that big object .
You do n't know , a priori , which one is going to work .
Maybe you 'll break out of the downdraft .
Maybe it 's worse over there where you 're about to turn .
That 's where skill , experience , and lots and lots of luck come into play .
Where I live , sometimes the clouds from the mountain waves are visible in long rows at over 25,000 feet elevation , in lines for a hundred miles downwind of the mountains themselves , and every one of those is strong enough to shake a plane like a ragdoll .
A B-52 bomber had its vertical tail ripped off and lost part of a wing [ derkeiler.com ] in clear air turbulence 5000 feet above the nearest mountain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mountain flying is technically challenging -- as challenging for an experienced pilot, as just flying is for a person who doesn't know how to fly.
There are a lot of things you do when you train in mountain flying to minimize your risk, but if you're in a small piston-engined plane, there are a lot of places where you just don' t know what the best plan is, so you have to make a quick decision and hope you were right.
First off: fly down valleys, not up them.
That's not always possible, though: you sort of have to fly up one valley to go over the pass and fly down the next.
Another is you don't fly up the middle of a valley.
You fly up one side, so that you have room to make a quick turn if you find that you're in a narrow bit of the valley and you need to get out.
But here's the tradeoff: there are sometimes strong upslope/downslope winds along the valley sides, so by preserving your ability to turn, you might run into an intense downdraft.
(Generally, winds are faster, the higher you go, but in valley conditions, downslope winds known as foehn or scirroco winds tend to be intense right around the valley itself, particularly if you're flying up an old glacial valley with hanging valleys intersecting it: there are these big cold air currents flowing down them just like water would and pouring down into the main valley.
)
Likewise, once you're in a downdraft you have to make some hard decisions.
You pull the nose up to best angle of climb, full power, and you hold it.
What if you're aiming right towards a big rock?
If you turn, your stall speed increases, and you're already fairly close to stall speed, so you have to weigh reducing your angle of climb (which in a microburst or downdraft means increasing your speed towards the ground) to make the turn, vs. trying to ride out your current heading and hoping you'll miss that big object.
You don't know, a priori, which one is going to work.
Maybe you'll break out of the downdraft.
Maybe it's worse over there where you're about to turn.
That's where skill, experience, and lots and lots of luck come into play.
Where I live, sometimes the clouds from the mountain waves are visible in long rows at over 25,000 feet elevation, in lines for a hundred miles downwind of the mountains themselves, and every one of those is strong enough to shake a plane like a ragdoll.
A B-52 bomber had its vertical tail ripped off and lost part of a wing [derkeiler.com] in clear air turbulence 5000 feet above the nearest mountain.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651347</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652437</id>
	<title>Re:NTSB is wrong</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247252040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also wrong. Earth collided with him.</p><p>What was he doing on earth's extra-wide lane anyway?<br>Searching for is <em>mom</em>?<br>*ducks* (Too early? Ok. Bad hurricane78*! *slap*)</p><p>[* By the way: How do I rename myself. I could not find anything, and I do not like that name anymore. While I like to keep my ID.]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Also wrong .
Earth collided with him.What was he doing on earth 's extra-wide lane anyway ? Searching for is mom ?
* ducks * ( Too early ?
Ok. Bad hurricane78 * !
* slap * ) [ * By the way : How do I rename myself .
I could not find anything , and I do not like that name anymore .
While I like to keep my ID .
]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also wrong.
Earth collided with him.What was he doing on earth's extra-wide lane anyway?Searching for is mom?
*ducks* (Too early?
Ok. Bad hurricane78*!
*slap*)[* By the way: How do I rename myself.
I could not find anything, and I do not like that name anymore.
While I like to keep my ID.
]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651119</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28654181</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>cyn1c77</author>
	<datestamp>1247259480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>One must wonder<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>...how pilots experienced in the area and are <i>still alive</i> know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?</p></div><p>Parachutes and radios, my friend.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>One must wonder ......how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane ? Parachutes and radios , my friend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One must wonder ......how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?Parachutes and radios, my friend.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651229</id>
	<title>Great Mystery - Probably not</title>
	<author>travdaddy</author>
	<datestamp>1247246400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions, given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on, but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to."</i> <br> <br>Even if we did know the answer, I doubt it would be very interesting.  It's probably a little of Steve being an adrenaline junkie mixed with underestimating the danger.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions , given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on , but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to .
" Even if we did know the answer , I doubt it would be very interesting .
It 's probably a little of Steve being an adrenaline junkie mixed with underestimating the danger .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One must wonder why such a skilled aviator was taking a gamble with such hostile conditions, given that he was looking for a flat stretch of land to race cars on, but that is one mystery we shall probably never know the answer to.
"  Even if we did know the answer, I doubt it would be very interesting.
It's probably a little of Steve being an adrenaline junkie mixed with underestimating the danger.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650943</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247245140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hey, you didn't think Bill Gates would jump straight to controlling hurricanes, didja? Even he had to start small.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , you did n't think Bill Gates would jump straight to controlling hurricanes , didja ?
Even he had to start small .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, you didn't think Bill Gates would jump straight to controlling hurricanes, didja?
Even he had to start small.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28655375</id>
	<title>You don't have to "register your flight"...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247223240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First of all, in the USA, there is no requirement to "register your flight" with the FAA at all.  You don't have to call up the police and request permission or register your planned trip to drive your car from your home to the shopping mall, or go on a pleasure drive, do you?</p><p>If you're a private pilot and have your own plane, you can pretty much, for the most part, just simply hop in it, and take off to go fly whenever you please. You do not need to seek permission from the government to go fly.</p><p>Now there are some limitations and exceptions. Large airports, and even smaller ones with great volumes of air traffic do have control towers, which exist solely for the purpose of imposing order and safety on the sequencing of arriving and departing aircraft. The Tower is a traffic cop who controls permission to enter a runway for takeoff and also for permission to land on a runway at that particular airport. There is also "Ground Control" who is in charge of controlling aircraft movements on the taxiways. These exist to help prevent collisions from happening.</p><p>In larger cities' airports, there may also be "Approach" and "Departure" air traffic controls to help sequence the air traffic flowing into and out of the airport  regional area.</p><p>Most small general aviation airports do not have, nor do they need these. At these airports, the pilot general self-announces his intentions over the radio just to let other pilots who are coming and going to that airport know who he is, where he is, and what he's doing. There's not even any real legal requirement to do that. You can keep your radio off and talk to no one. You just get in your plane and fly. And that is perfectly legal.</p><p>And furthermore, the FAA regulations actually state that it's up to the pilot to determine for himself whether or not there are any severe weather conditions or hazards before he begins his flight. As a pilot, it's totally up to you to plan and prepare for your own flight.</p><p>Now Steve Fossett was a very skilled and knowledgeable pilot. He knew exactly what kinds of treacherous winds existed in that mountainous terrain environment. He was well trained and skilled for handling them too... except sometimes in mountain flying, the winds can abruptly get so crazy without warning that they can catch even the most seasoned veteran mountain-flying pilot off guard and swat his airplane down into the ground like a giant flyswatter on a mosquito. Mountain flying has a hugely great element of danger to it. It is horribly unforgiving, even if you're an expert at it. Even one of the most famously skilled and respected mountain pilots, <a href="http://www.examiner.com/x-2215-Denver-Aviation-Examiner~y2009m3d20-Mountain-Flying-Bible-author-dies-in-plane-crash" title="examiner.com" rel="nofollow">Sparky Imeson</a> [examiner.com], who wrote the <a href="http://www.mountainflying.com/" title="mountainflying.com" rel="nofollow">"Mountain Flying Bible"</a> [mountainflying.com], died himself in a mountain-flying crash earlier this year.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First of all , in the USA , there is no requirement to " register your flight " with the FAA at all .
You do n't have to call up the police and request permission or register your planned trip to drive your car from your home to the shopping mall , or go on a pleasure drive , do you ? If you 're a private pilot and have your own plane , you can pretty much , for the most part , just simply hop in it , and take off to go fly whenever you please .
You do not need to seek permission from the government to go fly.Now there are some limitations and exceptions .
Large airports , and even smaller ones with great volumes of air traffic do have control towers , which exist solely for the purpose of imposing order and safety on the sequencing of arriving and departing aircraft .
The Tower is a traffic cop who controls permission to enter a runway for takeoff and also for permission to land on a runway at that particular airport .
There is also " Ground Control " who is in charge of controlling aircraft movements on the taxiways .
These exist to help prevent collisions from happening.In larger cities ' airports , there may also be " Approach " and " Departure " air traffic controls to help sequence the air traffic flowing into and out of the airport regional area.Most small general aviation airports do not have , nor do they need these .
At these airports , the pilot general self-announces his intentions over the radio just to let other pilots who are coming and going to that airport know who he is , where he is , and what he 's doing .
There 's not even any real legal requirement to do that .
You can keep your radio off and talk to no one .
You just get in your plane and fly .
And that is perfectly legal.And furthermore , the FAA regulations actually state that it 's up to the pilot to determine for himself whether or not there are any severe weather conditions or hazards before he begins his flight .
As a pilot , it 's totally up to you to plan and prepare for your own flight.Now Steve Fossett was a very skilled and knowledgeable pilot .
He knew exactly what kinds of treacherous winds existed in that mountainous terrain environment .
He was well trained and skilled for handling them too... except sometimes in mountain flying , the winds can abruptly get so crazy without warning that they can catch even the most seasoned veteran mountain-flying pilot off guard and swat his airplane down into the ground like a giant flyswatter on a mosquito .
Mountain flying has a hugely great element of danger to it .
It is horribly unforgiving , even if you 're an expert at it .
Even one of the most famously skilled and respected mountain pilots , Sparky Imeson [ examiner.com ] , who wrote the " Mountain Flying Bible " [ mountainflying.com ] , died himself in a mountain-flying crash earlier this year .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First of all, in the USA, there is no requirement to "register your flight" with the FAA at all.
You don't have to call up the police and request permission or register your planned trip to drive your car from your home to the shopping mall, or go on a pleasure drive, do you?If you're a private pilot and have your own plane, you can pretty much, for the most part, just simply hop in it, and take off to go fly whenever you please.
You do not need to seek permission from the government to go fly.Now there are some limitations and exceptions.
Large airports, and even smaller ones with great volumes of air traffic do have control towers, which exist solely for the purpose of imposing order and safety on the sequencing of arriving and departing aircraft.
The Tower is a traffic cop who controls permission to enter a runway for takeoff and also for permission to land on a runway at that particular airport.
There is also "Ground Control" who is in charge of controlling aircraft movements on the taxiways.
These exist to help prevent collisions from happening.In larger cities' airports, there may also be "Approach" and "Departure" air traffic controls to help sequence the air traffic flowing into and out of the airport  regional area.Most small general aviation airports do not have, nor do they need these.
At these airports, the pilot general self-announces his intentions over the radio just to let other pilots who are coming and going to that airport know who he is, where he is, and what he's doing.
There's not even any real legal requirement to do that.
You can keep your radio off and talk to no one.
You just get in your plane and fly.
And that is perfectly legal.And furthermore, the FAA regulations actually state that it's up to the pilot to determine for himself whether or not there are any severe weather conditions or hazards before he begins his flight.
As a pilot, it's totally up to you to plan and prepare for your own flight.Now Steve Fossett was a very skilled and knowledgeable pilot.
He knew exactly what kinds of treacherous winds existed in that mountainous terrain environment.
He was well trained and skilled for handling them too... except sometimes in mountain flying, the winds can abruptly get so crazy without warning that they can catch even the most seasoned veteran mountain-flying pilot off guard and swat his airplane down into the ground like a giant flyswatter on a mosquito.
Mountain flying has a hugely great element of danger to it.
It is horribly unforgiving, even if you're an expert at it.
Even one of the most famously skilled and respected mountain pilots, Sparky Imeson [examiner.com], who wrote the "Mountain Flying Bible" [mountainflying.com], died himself in a mountain-flying crash earlier this year.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28655819</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>JWSmythe</author>
	<datestamp>1247226540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; In searching for Fossett, they found numerous unreported or otherwise undocumented crashed planes.  More than likely, any aviator who said that they "knew" it could happen were witnesses to another plane crashing, helped with the search and rescue of a fellow aviator, or simply accounted for the forces and the strength of small aircraft.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I had discussed this with some people who are very experienced aviators, and they all came to the same conclusion.  It was most likely wind that brought him down.  The second guess would be a mechanical failure and attempted crash landing.  They ranked the second one way behind the first.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; If I read the NTSB review correctly, his altimeter was reading above the mountain peaks, but adjusted for current temp and pressure that would put him a bit lower than them, which should have been ok.   They lost radar contact with him approx 1km from the crash site.  In that time, he went about 1km (obviously) and a dropped a few thousand feet.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; The report does state that the entire plane was present at the accident site.  Well, except for the burnt off parts.  They indicate the wingtip lights were present, which would imply the wing came down with the plane.  If they had broken off, they would have likely been found at a different location.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I'm sure he did everything he could.  Sometimes that's just not enough, even for people who are really good.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>    In searching for Fossett , they found numerous unreported or otherwise undocumented crashed planes .
More than likely , any aviator who said that they " knew " it could happen were witnesses to another plane crashing , helped with the search and rescue of a fellow aviator , or simply accounted for the forces and the strength of small aircraft .
    I had discussed this with some people who are very experienced aviators , and they all came to the same conclusion .
It was most likely wind that brought him down .
The second guess would be a mechanical failure and attempted crash landing .
They ranked the second one way behind the first .
    If I read the NTSB review correctly , his altimeter was reading above the mountain peaks , but adjusted for current temp and pressure that would put him a bit lower than them , which should have been ok. They lost radar contact with him approx 1km from the crash site .
In that time , he went about 1km ( obviously ) and a dropped a few thousand feet .
    The report does state that the entire plane was present at the accident site .
Well , except for the burnt off parts .
They indicate the wingtip lights were present , which would imply the wing came down with the plane .
If they had broken off , they would have likely been found at a different location .
    I 'm sure he did everything he could .
Sometimes that 's just not enough , even for people who are really good .
: (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
    In searching for Fossett, they found numerous unreported or otherwise undocumented crashed planes.
More than likely, any aviator who said that they "knew" it could happen were witnesses to another plane crashing, helped with the search and rescue of a fellow aviator, or simply accounted for the forces and the strength of small aircraft.
    I had discussed this with some people who are very experienced aviators, and they all came to the same conclusion.
It was most likely wind that brought him down.
The second guess would be a mechanical failure and attempted crash landing.
They ranked the second one way behind the first.
    If I read the NTSB review correctly, his altimeter was reading above the mountain peaks, but adjusted for current temp and pressure that would put him a bit lower than them, which should have been ok.   They lost radar contact with him approx 1km from the crash site.
In that time, he went about 1km (obviously) and a dropped a few thousand feet.
    The report does state that the entire plane was present at the accident site.
Well, except for the burnt off parts.
They indicate the wingtip lights were present, which would imply the wing came down with the plane.
If they had broken off, they would have likely been found at a different location.
    I'm sure he did everything he could.
Sometimes that's just not enough, even for people who are really good.
:(</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650981</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652105</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>slack\_justyb</author>
	<datestamp>1247250900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One word.<br> <br>
Parachutes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One word .
Parachutes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One word.
Parachutes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651601</id>
	<title>SO uh, when did Mark Twain have a plane?</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1247248560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Pilots experienced in the area report that those winds can rip the wings off aircraft; and Mark Twain remarked that they could roll up a tin house 'like sheet music</i></p><p>Just thought I'd ask.. me thinks Mark Twain died before the aircraft age.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pilots experienced in the area report that those winds can rip the wings off aircraft ; and Mark Twain remarked that they could roll up a tin house 'like sheet musicJust thought I 'd ask.. me thinks Mark Twain died before the aircraft age .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pilots experienced in the area report that those winds can rip the wings off aircraft; and Mark Twain remarked that they could roll up a tin house 'like sheet musicJust thought I'd ask.. me thinks Mark Twain died before the aircraft age.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651639</id>
	<title>Re:Can a Slashdot pilot tell us . . .</title>
	<author>Abreu</author>
	<datestamp>1247248800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>During your flight does the ATC tell you, "Be careful, you are about to enter a dangerous area?</p></div><p>Yes, and using Majel Barrett-Roddenberry's voice, no less!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>During your flight does the ATC tell you , " Be careful , you are about to enter a dangerous area ? Yes , and using Majel Barrett-Roddenberry 's voice , no less !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>During your flight does the ATC tell you, "Be careful, you are about to enter a dangerous area?Yes, and using Majel Barrett-Roddenberry's voice, no less!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651259</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651401</id>
	<title>Re:NTSB is wrong</title>
	<author>kpainter</author>
	<datestamp>1247247300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It was not sudden deceleration that killed him.  It was the trauma caused by sudden deceleration that killed him.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It was not sudden deceleration that killed him .
It was the trauma caused by sudden deceleration that killed him .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was not sudden deceleration that killed him.
It was the trauma caused by sudden deceleration that killed him.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651119</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28655481</id>
	<title>Mark Twain died in 1910...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247224140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...and was quite aware of the Wright Brothers and other early airplanes, but the only airplanes he would've known about were those primitive fabric-covered wooden ones.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...and was quite aware of the Wright Brothers and other early airplanes , but the only airplanes he would 've known about were those primitive fabric-covered wooden ones .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...and was quite aware of the Wright Brothers and other early airplanes, but the only airplanes he would've known about were those primitive fabric-covered wooden ones.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651601</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652791</id>
	<title>Re:Can a Slashdot pilot tell us . . .</title>
	<author>superdana</author>
	<datestamp>1247253540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a curious description of how aviation works in the U.S. While it's certainly possible for GA flights to "do their own thing" if they stay out of any airspace more restrictive than Class E, this is by no means representative of GA as a whole. A Cessna flying under instrument rules will be in constant contact with ATC. Even if you're just flying under visual rules, you have to get landing and takeoff clearances at controlled airports, you need a clearance to enter Class B airspace, and you need permission to transition through Classes C and D. Outside of controlled airspace, a pilot flying under visual rules can voluntarily request radar advisories. And at the extreme end, corporate and charter jets are considered GA too, and they fly in Class A airspace every day.<br>
<br>
But to answer the original question, you're not required to file a flight plan if you're flying under visual rules. If you choose to file, the FAA isn't required to give you a weather briefing at that time, but most pilots ask for one.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a curious description of how aviation works in the U.S. While it 's certainly possible for GA flights to " do their own thing " if they stay out of any airspace more restrictive than Class E , this is by no means representative of GA as a whole .
A Cessna flying under instrument rules will be in constant contact with ATC .
Even if you 're just flying under visual rules , you have to get landing and takeoff clearances at controlled airports , you need a clearance to enter Class B airspace , and you need permission to transition through Classes C and D. Outside of controlled airspace , a pilot flying under visual rules can voluntarily request radar advisories .
And at the extreme end , corporate and charter jets are considered GA too , and they fly in Class A airspace every day .
But to answer the original question , you 're not required to file a flight plan if you 're flying under visual rules .
If you choose to file , the FAA is n't required to give you a weather briefing at that time , but most pilots ask for one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a curious description of how aviation works in the U.S. While it's certainly possible for GA flights to "do their own thing" if they stay out of any airspace more restrictive than Class E, this is by no means representative of GA as a whole.
A Cessna flying under instrument rules will be in constant contact with ATC.
Even if you're just flying under visual rules, you have to get landing and takeoff clearances at controlled airports, you need a clearance to enter Class B airspace, and you need permission to transition through Classes C and D. Outside of controlled airspace, a pilot flying under visual rules can voluntarily request radar advisories.
And at the extreme end, corporate and charter jets are considered GA too, and they fly in Class A airspace every day.
But to answer the original question, you're not required to file a flight plan if you're flying under visual rules.
If you choose to file, the FAA isn't required to give you a weather briefing at that time, but most pilots ask for one.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651419</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651223</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>vertinox</author>
	<datestamp>1247246400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>...how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?</i></p><p>Experienced pilots experienced the phenomena by experiencing the event from a safe distance because they were experienced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane ? Experienced pilots experienced the phenomena by experiencing the event from a safe distance because they were experienced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?Experienced pilots experienced the phenomena by experiencing the event from a safe distance because they were experienced.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651881</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>tnk1</author>
	<datestamp>1247250120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Experience could certainly mean that they have flown the area and frequented places where fellow pilots who know about incidents congregate.  They may have also experienced lesser effects of this phenomenon personally and then read about reports of similar incidents which match their (not as extreme) experience.</p><p>I am an experienced system administrator for large numbers of high-end systems.  This means I know about all sorts of threats to my hosts, active and historical, because I am experienced and have had to explore the possibility of intrusions and read studies of those that went too far.  That is a function of my experience that you would have trouble obtaining without time in front of the keyboard, if only because you'd usually have no interest in such things if you never had to deal with the real possibility of them happening to you. I have never experienced an intrusion personally, but my experience is why I would know about them.</p><p>While it is not "first-hand" experience, these mountain conditions are something that an "experienced" pilot would know about because it is their best interests to know about it... or they may die.  That is why it is interesting that Mr. Fossett, who we all know is experienced, seemed to be either ignorant of these conditions, didn't care, or something else happened.  This would seem to be pretty basic stuff for general aviation flyers to know, so we would be allowed to wonder what happened.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Experience could certainly mean that they have flown the area and frequented places where fellow pilots who know about incidents congregate .
They may have also experienced lesser effects of this phenomenon personally and then read about reports of similar incidents which match their ( not as extreme ) experience.I am an experienced system administrator for large numbers of high-end systems .
This means I know about all sorts of threats to my hosts , active and historical , because I am experienced and have had to explore the possibility of intrusions and read studies of those that went too far .
That is a function of my experience that you would have trouble obtaining without time in front of the keyboard , if only because you 'd usually have no interest in such things if you never had to deal with the real possibility of them happening to you .
I have never experienced an intrusion personally , but my experience is why I would know about them.While it is not " first-hand " experience , these mountain conditions are something that an " experienced " pilot would know about because it is their best interests to know about it... or they may die .
That is why it is interesting that Mr. Fossett , who we all know is experienced , seemed to be either ignorant of these conditions , did n't care , or something else happened .
This would seem to be pretty basic stuff for general aviation flyers to know , so we would be allowed to wonder what happened .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Experience could certainly mean that they have flown the area and frequented places where fellow pilots who know about incidents congregate.
They may have also experienced lesser effects of this phenomenon personally and then read about reports of similar incidents which match their (not as extreme) experience.I am an experienced system administrator for large numbers of high-end systems.
This means I know about all sorts of threats to my hosts, active and historical, because I am experienced and have had to explore the possibility of intrusions and read studies of those that went too far.
That is a function of my experience that you would have trouble obtaining without time in front of the keyboard, if only because you'd usually have no interest in such things if you never had to deal with the real possibility of them happening to you.
I have never experienced an intrusion personally, but my experience is why I would know about them.While it is not "first-hand" experience, these mountain conditions are something that an "experienced" pilot would know about because it is their best interests to know about it... or they may die.
That is why it is interesting that Mr. Fossett, who we all know is experienced, seemed to be either ignorant of these conditions, didn't care, or something else happened.
This would seem to be pretty basic stuff for general aviation flyers to know, so we would be allowed to wonder what happened.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28651227</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>DoofusOfDeath</author>
	<datestamp>1247246400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>One must wonder<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div><p>...how pilots experienced in the area and are <i>still alive</i> know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?</p></div><p>Yes, it's odd.  Almost as though they can somehow communicate amongst themselves or even <i>read</i> NTSB reports.</p><p>Yes... this definitely is something we need to understand better.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>One must wonder ......how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane ? Yes , it 's odd .
Almost as though they can somehow communicate amongst themselves or even read NTSB reports.Yes... this definitely is something we need to understand better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One must wonder ......how pilots experienced in the area and are still alive know that these downdrafts can rip the wings off an airplane?Yes, it's odd.
Almost as though they can somehow communicate amongst themselves or even read NTSB reports.Yes... this definitely is something we need to understand better.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28650783</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652935</id>
	<title>Steve Fossett really deserved to die</title>
	<author>arse maker</author>
	<datestamp>1247254020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who cares about this guy? He is called an "adventurer"? Our navy (Australian) already had to fish this idiot out of the sea after he failed *another* balloon flight. He was a billionare.. but he cant even have a fucking plan b? His many rescuers should get the credit, not this idiot.</p><p>What sort of adventurer goes man vs nature... fails (often), lives only cause of others... but is still considered so brave / adventerous?</p><p>Even I can fuck up and get saved by the professionals. Its not that impressive!</p><p>Fossett flew off, no one knew where he went exactly... he didnt take sufficient supplies in case of trouble. What sort of retard is he? He knows better than anyone how often his stupid ass would crash. Its the one time he couldnt call for help to save his ass.</p><p>I assume the Fossett family wont ask me to speak at any family functions<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who cares about this guy ?
He is called an " adventurer " ?
Our navy ( Australian ) already had to fish this idiot out of the sea after he failed * another * balloon flight .
He was a billionare.. but he cant even have a fucking plan b ?
His many rescuers should get the credit , not this idiot.What sort of adventurer goes man vs nature... fails ( often ) , lives only cause of others... but is still considered so brave / adventerous ? Even I can fuck up and get saved by the professionals .
Its not that impressive ! Fossett flew off , no one knew where he went exactly... he didnt take sufficient supplies in case of trouble .
What sort of retard is he ?
He knows better than anyone how often his stupid ass would crash .
Its the one time he couldnt call for help to save his ass.I assume the Fossett family wont ask me to speak at any family functions : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who cares about this guy?
He is called an "adventurer"?
Our navy (Australian) already had to fish this idiot out of the sea after he failed *another* balloon flight.
He was a billionare.. but he cant even have a fucking plan b?
His many rescuers should get the credit, not this idiot.What sort of adventurer goes man vs nature... fails (often), lives only cause of others... but is still considered so brave / adventerous?Even I can fuck up and get saved by the professionals.
Its not that impressive!Fossett flew off, no one knew where he went exactly... he didnt take sufficient supplies in case of trouble.
What sort of retard is he?
He knows better than anyone how often his stupid ass would crash.
Its the one time he couldnt call for help to save his ass.I assume the Fossett family wont ask me to speak at any family functions :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28656307</id>
	<title>Re:One must wonder ...</title>
	<author>Klaus\_1250</author>
	<datestamp>1247230560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Parachutes don't work well in downdrafts, or very turbulent conditions where the risk of a parachute collapse is high. But I doubt he would have had the height and time to jump. Which is one of the reasons flying near mountains is so dangerous.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Parachutes do n't work well in downdrafts , or very turbulent conditions where the risk of a parachute collapse is high .
But I doubt he would have had the height and time to jump .
Which is one of the reasons flying near mountains is so dangerous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Parachutes don't work well in downdrafts, or very turbulent conditions where the risk of a parachute collapse is high.
But I doubt he would have had the height and time to jump.
Which is one of the reasons flying near mountains is so dangerous.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652105</parent>
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_157244.28652093
</commentlist>
</conversation>
