<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_10_145202</id>
	<title>Researcher Discovers ATM Hack, Gets Silenced</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1247238000000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/" rel="nofollow">Al</a> writes <i>"A researcher working for networking company Juniper has been forced to <a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/printer\_friendly\_article.aspx?id=22966&amp;channel=computing">cancel a Black Hat presentation that would have revealed a way to hack into ATMs</a>. The presentation focused on exploiting vulnerabilities in devices running the Windows CE operating system, including some ATMs. The decision to cancel was made to give the vendor concerned time to patch the problem, although the company was notified 8 months ago. The article mentions a growing trend in ATM hacking: In November 2008 thieves <a href="//news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/07/1657259&amp;tid=76">stole nearly $9 million from more than 130 cash machines</a> in 49 cities worldwide. And earlier this year, the second biggest maker of ATMs, Diebold, warned customers in an advisory that certain cash machines in Eastern Europe had been loaded with malicious software capable of <a href="//it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/06/04/1424210&amp;tid=76">stealing financial information and the secret PINs</a> from customers performing ATM transactions."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Al writes " A researcher working for networking company Juniper has been forced to cancel a Black Hat presentation that would have revealed a way to hack into ATMs .
The presentation focused on exploiting vulnerabilities in devices running the Windows CE operating system , including some ATMs .
The decision to cancel was made to give the vendor concerned time to patch the problem , although the company was notified 8 months ago .
The article mentions a growing trend in ATM hacking : In November 2008 thieves stole nearly $ 9 million from more than 130 cash machines in 49 cities worldwide .
And earlier this year , the second biggest maker of ATMs , Diebold , warned customers in an advisory that certain cash machines in Eastern Europe had been loaded with malicious software capable of stealing financial information and the secret PINs from customers performing ATM transactions .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Al writes "A researcher working for networking company Juniper has been forced to cancel a Black Hat presentation that would have revealed a way to hack into ATMs.
The presentation focused on exploiting vulnerabilities in devices running the Windows CE operating system, including some ATMs.
The decision to cancel was made to give the vendor concerned time to patch the problem, although the company was notified 8 months ago.
The article mentions a growing trend in ATM hacking: In November 2008 thieves stole nearly $9 million from more than 130 cash machines in 49 cities worldwide.
And earlier this year, the second biggest maker of ATMs, Diebold, warned customers in an advisory that certain cash machines in Eastern Europe had been loaded with malicious software capable of stealing financial information and the secret PINs from customers performing ATM transactions.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28658125</id>
	<title>Re:8 Months Is Not Enough Time</title>
	<author>sumnerp</author>
	<datestamp>1247255100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Do you have any idea what the QA procedure would be for a release of baking software?</p><p>The QA cycle on it alone would be 6-12 months. Then you would need 6-12 months to roll it out to all the ATMs globally.</p></div><p>Better not longer QA is needed.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you have any idea what the QA procedure would be for a release of baking software ? The QA cycle on it alone would be 6-12 months .
Then you would need 6-12 months to roll it out to all the ATMs globally.Better not longer QA is needed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you have any idea what the QA procedure would be for a release of baking software?The QA cycle on it alone would be 6-12 months.
Then you would need 6-12 months to roll it out to all the ATMs globally.Better not longer QA is needed.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651007</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28653705</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>DMUTPeregrine</author>
	<datestamp>1247257020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS\_syndrome" title="wikipedia.org">PNS syndrome</a> [wikipedia.org] is a horrible, horrible thing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>PNS syndrome [ wikipedia.org ] is a horrible , horrible thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>PNS syndrome [wikipedia.org] is a horrible, horrible thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650389</id>
	<title>Juniper is unscrupulous.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247242980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Read about the <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi\_pwwi/is\_20050229/ai\_mark979978371/" title="findarticles.com" rel="nofollow">lawsuit</a> [findarticles.com] that David Abramson filed against Juniper.  You can get more information by searching (a. k. a. "Binging") on the Web.
<p>Juniper had tried to block the suit by unfairly forcing Abramson into arbitration but reserved the right for itself to use a lawsuit against him.  The Superior Court ruled against Juniper.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Read about the lawsuit [ findarticles.com ] that David Abramson filed against Juniper .
You can get more information by searching ( a. k. a .
" Binging " ) on the Web .
Juniper had tried to block the suit by unfairly forcing Abramson into arbitration but reserved the right for itself to use a lawsuit against him .
The Superior Court ruled against Juniper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Read about the lawsuit [findarticles.com] that David Abramson filed against Juniper.
You can get more information by searching (a. k. a.
"Binging") on the Web.
Juniper had tried to block the suit by unfairly forcing Abramson into arbitration but reserved the right for itself to use a lawsuit against him.
The Superior Court ruled against Juniper.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650585</id>
	<title>MS doesn't recommend WinCE either . . .</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247243820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> . . . from TFA:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The operating system used in the affected system, Windows CE, poses hurdles to a quick fix. Microsoft recommends that Windows CE is used for "low-end cash-dispensing ATMs," while Windows XP Embedded and Windows XP Professional are used on more full-featured ATMs, according to a white paper on kiosk and ATM operating-system platforms issued by the software maker. Windows XP Embedded, the latest version of which is Windows Embedded Standard 2009, and Windows XP Professional are more secure because they are easier to update, the software giant says.</p><p><div class="quote"></div></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>.
. .
from TFA : The operating system used in the affected system , Windows CE , poses hurdles to a quick fix .
Microsoft recommends that Windows CE is used for " low-end cash-dispensing ATMs , " while Windows XP Embedded and Windows XP Professional are used on more full-featured ATMs , according to a white paper on kiosk and ATM operating-system platforms issued by the software maker .
Windows XP Embedded , the latest version of which is Windows Embedded Standard 2009 , and Windows XP Professional are more secure because they are easier to update , the software giant says .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> .
. .
from TFA:The operating system used in the affected system, Windows CE, poses hurdles to a quick fix.
Microsoft recommends that Windows CE is used for "low-end cash-dispensing ATMs," while Windows XP Embedded and Windows XP Professional are used on more full-featured ATMs, according to a white paper on kiosk and ATM operating-system platforms issued by the software maker.
Windows XP Embedded, the latest version of which is Windows Embedded Standard 2009, and Windows XP Professional are more secure because they are easier to update, the software giant says.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651007</id>
	<title>8 Months Is Not Enough Time</title>
	<author>brunes69</author>
	<datestamp>1247245380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do you have any idea what the QA procedure would be for a release of baking software?</p><p>The QA cycle on it alone would be 6-12 months. Then you would need 6-12 months to roll it out to all the ATMs globally.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do you have any idea what the QA procedure would be for a release of baking software ? The QA cycle on it alone would be 6-12 months .
Then you would need 6-12 months to roll it out to all the ATMs globally .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do you have any idea what the QA procedure would be for a release of baking software?The QA cycle on it alone would be 6-12 months.
Then you would need 6-12 months to roll it out to all the ATMs globally.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</id>
	<title>Ridiculous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247241840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So they've had 8 months warning, and now suddenly when researchers want to publish they now want time to fix it? Not indicative of a company that gives a flying fuck about security. They don't deserve time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So they 've had 8 months warning , and now suddenly when researchers want to publish they now want time to fix it ?
Not indicative of a company that gives a flying fuck about security .
They do n't deserve time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So they've had 8 months warning, and now suddenly when researchers want to publish they now want time to fix it?
Not indicative of a company that gives a flying fuck about security.
They don't deserve time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651779</id>
	<title>Re:Another odd device running Windows CE</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247249580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why these kind of things need to use Windows is beyond me.  Windows, security issues aside, is alright for general purpose machines, but not highly-specialized machines like a scanner or ATM.</p></div><p>Prior to Windows CE, it was common for each make/model scanner to run its own operating system, which meant that writing software for handheld scanners involved considerable portability overhead.  The hardware abstraction layer in Connect's API* made things considerably easier, but putting CE on them made it easier to write GUI applications.</p><p>From the standpoint of a developer writing application software for handhelds (such as an inventory system), it makes sense *not* to tie your codebase to the hardware, so you can sell it to as many customers as possible.</p><p>*disclaimer: My current employer has a vested interest in <a href="http://www.connectrf.com/airlinc.htm" title="connectrf.com" rel="nofollow">AirLinc</a> [connectrf.com], which is built upon this API</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why these kind of things need to use Windows is beyond me .
Windows , security issues aside , is alright for general purpose machines , but not highly-specialized machines like a scanner or ATM.Prior to Windows CE , it was common for each make/model scanner to run its own operating system , which meant that writing software for handheld scanners involved considerable portability overhead .
The hardware abstraction layer in Connect 's API * made things considerably easier , but putting CE on them made it easier to write GUI applications.From the standpoint of a developer writing application software for handhelds ( such as an inventory system ) , it makes sense * not * to tie your codebase to the hardware , so you can sell it to as many customers as possible .
* disclaimer : My current employer has a vested interest in AirLinc [ connectrf.com ] , which is built upon this API</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why these kind of things need to use Windows is beyond me.
Windows, security issues aside, is alright for general purpose machines, but not highly-specialized machines like a scanner or ATM.Prior to Windows CE, it was common for each make/model scanner to run its own operating system, which meant that writing software for handheld scanners involved considerable portability overhead.
The hardware abstraction layer in Connect's API* made things considerably easier, but putting CE on them made it easier to write GUI applications.From the standpoint of a developer writing application software for handhelds (such as an inventory system), it makes sense *not* to tie your codebase to the hardware, so you can sell it to as many customers as possible.
*disclaimer: My current employer has a vested interest in AirLinc [connectrf.com], which is built upon this API
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650537</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651141</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247246040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>More like</p><p>Current situation: "Society" as a whole does not know about the vulnerability, a small portion of the population knows that there is a vulnerability (slashdotters and the like), even less know what the vulnerability, and a few criminals actually are actively exploiting it ($9 mil from 130 machines according to the summary).</p><p>Full Disclosure: Anyone with guts can try and exploit the vulnerability, some will succeed, most won't, but the ATM manufacturers like Diebold will probably be just as incompetent as they have always been. News outlets might report on the vulnerability, maybe even causing a run on 1 or 2 smaller (like neighborhood local only small) banks if the hype hits the masses the similar to the way the whole H1N1 thing did.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More likeCurrent situation : " Society " as a whole does not know about the vulnerability , a small portion of the population knows that there is a vulnerability ( slashdotters and the like ) , even less know what the vulnerability , and a few criminals actually are actively exploiting it ( $ 9 mil from 130 machines according to the summary ) .Full Disclosure : Anyone with guts can try and exploit the vulnerability , some will succeed , most wo n't , but the ATM manufacturers like Diebold will probably be just as incompetent as they have always been .
News outlets might report on the vulnerability , maybe even causing a run on 1 or 2 smaller ( like neighborhood local only small ) banks if the hype hits the masses the similar to the way the whole H1N1 thing did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More likeCurrent situation: "Society" as a whole does not know about the vulnerability, a small portion of the population knows that there is a vulnerability (slashdotters and the like), even less know what the vulnerability, and a few criminals actually are actively exploiting it ($9 mil from 130 machines according to the summary).Full Disclosure: Anyone with guts can try and exploit the vulnerability, some will succeed, most won't, but the ATM manufacturers like Diebold will probably be just as incompetent as they have always been.
News outlets might report on the vulnerability, maybe even causing a run on 1 or 2 smaller (like neighborhood local only small) banks if the hype hits the masses the similar to the way the whole H1N1 thing did.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650635</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28656549</id>
	<title>Re:WinCE when you say that</title>
	<author>hyc</author>
	<datestamp>1247232780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Agreed. This was from last December in Kazakhstan, by the way:</p><p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/27159137@N08/3186737368/" title="flickr.com">http://www.flickr.com/photos/27159137@N08/3186737368/</a> [flickr.com]</p><p>About the same time frame as those researchers and their discovery. Seems to me that this type of hacking has been going on all over, for a long time already.</p><p>And yes, I'd say it's criminally negligent to use any Windows OS on ATMs or anything else where security matters...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed .
This was from last December in Kazakhstan , by the way : http : //www.flickr.com/photos/27159137 @ N08/3186737368/ [ flickr.com ] About the same time frame as those researchers and their discovery .
Seems to me that this type of hacking has been going on all over , for a long time already.And yes , I 'd say it 's criminally negligent to use any Windows OS on ATMs or anything else where security matters.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed.
This was from last December in Kazakhstan, by the way:http://www.flickr.com/photos/27159137@N08/3186737368/ [flickr.com]About the same time frame as those researchers and their discovery.
Seems to me that this type of hacking has been going on all over, for a long time already.And yes, I'd say it's criminally negligent to use any Windows OS on ATMs or anything else where security matters...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650055</id>
	<title>If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>jeffb (2.718)</author>
	<datestamp>1247241840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...it must be pretty abstract, since an "automated teller machine machine" is apparently running in emulation anyhow.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...it must be pretty abstract , since an " automated teller machine machine " is apparently running in emulation anyhow .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...it must be pretty abstract, since an "automated teller machine machine" is apparently running in emulation anyhow.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652487</id>
	<title>Expect the exploit to pop up on BitTorrent,</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1247252280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and Russian cracker ring sites very soon.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>If not already. Wait, I'll go look. I could use some money! I like money! Maybe I could buy a latte with it. With extra cream! Cuz I like sex too!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and Russian cracker ring sites very soon .
: ) If not already .
Wait , I 'll go look .
I could use some money !
I like money !
Maybe I could buy a latte with it .
With extra cream !
Cuz I like sex too !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and Russian cracker ring sites very soon.
:)If not already.
Wait, I'll go look.
I could use some money!
I like money!
Maybe I could buy a latte with it.
With extra cream!
Cuz I like sex too!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28658231</id>
	<title>Please no consumer Operating Systems</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247343180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A consumer operating system does NOT belong on an ATM nor any other critical systems for that matter.</p><p>Putting windows on an ATM is just inviting bad guys to the table.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A consumer operating system does NOT belong on an ATM nor any other critical systems for that matter.Putting windows on an ATM is just inviting bad guys to the table .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A consumer operating system does NOT belong on an ATM nor any other critical systems for that matter.Putting windows on an ATM is just inviting bad guys to the table.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28687753</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247563020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>...it must be pretty abstract, since an "automated teller machine machine" is apparently running in emulation anyhow.</p></div><p>No. It <i>has</i> to be an "ATM <i>Machine</i>" to in order to be able to enter a "PIN <i>number</i>".</p></div><p>They have an Ass-To-Mouth Machine that also accepts People In Need numbers?  Sign me up!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...it must be pretty abstract , since an " automated teller machine machine " is apparently running in emulation anyhow.No .
It has to be an " ATM Machine " to in order to be able to enter a " PIN number " .They have an Ass-To-Mouth Machine that also accepts People In Need numbers ?
Sign me up !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...it must be pretty abstract, since an "automated teller machine machine" is apparently running in emulation anyhow.No.
It has to be an "ATM Machine" to in order to be able to enter a "PIN number".They have an Ass-To-Mouth Machine that also accepts People In Need numbers?
Sign me up!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652793</id>
	<title>Re:MS doesn't recommend WinCE either . . .</title>
	<author>Gabbermatt</author>
	<datestamp>1247253540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Windows XP Embedded, the latest version of which is <strong>Windows Embedded Standard 2009, and Windows XP Professional are more secure because they are easier to update</strong>, the software giant says.<br> <br>
Emphasis Mine.<br> <br>
This is the reasoning that has allowed Microsoft to shovel out shitty OS after shitty OS.  Once they fix this flawed logic, they can begin actually creating a secure OS.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Windows XP Embedded , the latest version of which is Windows Embedded Standard 2009 , and Windows XP Professional are more secure because they are easier to update , the software giant says .
Emphasis Mine .
This is the reasoning that has allowed Microsoft to shovel out shitty OS after shitty OS .
Once they fix this flawed logic , they can begin actually creating a secure OS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Windows XP Embedded, the latest version of which is Windows Embedded Standard 2009, and Windows XP Professional are more secure because they are easier to update, the software giant says.
Emphasis Mine.
This is the reasoning that has allowed Microsoft to shovel out shitty OS after shitty OS.
Once they fix this flawed logic, they can begin actually creating a secure OS.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651211</id>
	<title>Oh I dunno</title>
	<author>AnalPerfume</author>
	<datestamp>1247246340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I reckon time is exactly what they deserve, I'm sure we could make room next door to Mahdof. Perhaps they will discover the alternate meaning of ATM first hand while there, as taught by the ever present Big Bubba and colleagues.<br><br>Oh, wait....you meant time to fix the problem. My bad<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I reckon time is exactly what they deserve , I 'm sure we could make room next door to Mahdof .
Perhaps they will discover the alternate meaning of ATM first hand while there , as taught by the ever present Big Bubba and colleagues.Oh , wait....you meant time to fix the problem .
My bad ; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I reckon time is exactly what they deserve, I'm sure we could make room next door to Mahdof.
Perhaps they will discover the alternate meaning of ATM first hand while there, as taught by the ever present Big Bubba and colleagues.Oh, wait....you meant time to fix the problem.
My bad ;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650471</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247243280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree the ATM manufacturer doesn't deserve time, but the consumer does. How would you like it if someone stole your account info on a hacked atm and pillaged your bank accounts and credit card info?? Not too good I'll bet. For the sake of protecting the consumer, this should be withheld.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree the ATM manufacturer does n't deserve time , but the consumer does .
How would you like it if someone stole your account info on a hacked atm and pillaged your bank accounts and credit card info ? ?
Not too good I 'll bet .
For the sake of protecting the consumer , this should be withheld .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree the ATM manufacturer doesn't deserve time, but the consumer does.
How would you like it if someone stole your account info on a hacked atm and pillaged your bank accounts and credit card info??
Not too good I'll bet.
For the sake of protecting the consumer, this should be withheld.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650373</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>furby076</author>
	<datestamp>1247242920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're right they don't deserve it - but giving information to criminals to make it easier for them to steal - thus hurting society as a whole - is not the answer.  Unfortunately the security of ATM's is greater then these researches desire to present their work.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're right they do n't deserve it - but giving information to criminals to make it easier for them to steal - thus hurting society as a whole - is not the answer .
Unfortunately the security of ATM 's is greater then these researches desire to present their work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're right they don't deserve it - but giving information to criminals to make it easier for them to steal - thus hurting society as a whole - is not the answer.
Unfortunately the security of ATM's is greater then these researches desire to present their work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28674949</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>hesaigo999ca</author>
	<datestamp>1247493660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree, especially when it comes to public info that is personal...they should be made also to reimburse all the banks with losses, due to the fact they knew about this, but still applied no fix. That might entice them to move their<br>greedy asses. I am always impressed by how long it takes the normal average person to fix something up until they get that challenge to their livelihood.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree , especially when it comes to public info that is personal...they should be made also to reimburse all the banks with losses , due to the fact they knew about this , but still applied no fix .
That might entice them to move theirgreedy asses .
I am always impressed by how long it takes the normal average person to fix something up until they get that challenge to their livelihood .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree, especially when it comes to public info that is personal...they should be made also to reimburse all the banks with losses, due to the fact they knew about this, but still applied no fix.
That might entice them to move theirgreedy asses.
I am always impressed by how long it takes the normal average person to fix something up until they get that challenge to their livelihood.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652069</id>
	<title>BSOD on ATM</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247250780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obligatory</p><p>ATMBSOD</p><p>http://www.chrisb.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/blue-screen-of-death-atm.jpg</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ObligatoryATMBSODhttp : //www.chrisb.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/blue-screen-of-death-atm.jpg</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ObligatoryATMBSODhttp://www.chrisb.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/blue-screen-of-death-atm.jpg</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651305</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>Brian Edwards</author>
	<datestamp>1247246880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The vendor in question is likely Microsoft:<br> <br>

<i>"The presentation focused on exploiting vulnerabilities in devices running the Windows CE operating system, including some ATMs. The decision to cancel was made to give the vendor concerned time to patch the problem, although the company was notified 8 months ago."</i> <br>
<br>
My guess is that Microsoft is not excited about fixing bugs in CE, and would rather just extend their "security through obscurity" strategy to include censoring researchers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The vendor in question is likely Microsoft : " The presentation focused on exploiting vulnerabilities in devices running the Windows CE operating system , including some ATMs .
The decision to cancel was made to give the vendor concerned time to patch the problem , although the company was notified 8 months ago .
" My guess is that Microsoft is not excited about fixing bugs in CE , and would rather just extend their " security through obscurity " strategy to include censoring researchers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The vendor in question is likely Microsoft: 

"The presentation focused on exploiting vulnerabilities in devices running the Windows CE operating system, including some ATMs.
The decision to cancel was made to give the vendor concerned time to patch the problem, although the company was notified 8 months ago.
" 

My guess is that Microsoft is not excited about fixing bugs in CE, and would rather just extend their "security through obscurity" strategy to include censoring researchers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651205</id>
	<title>Re:8 Months Is Not Enough Time</title>
	<author>zippyspringboard</author>
	<datestamp>1247246340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well yes, but when you are dealing with baking software peoples very health and welfare are at stake.  Great scott man, raw eggs can kill!  Banking software is not nearly as stringent.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well yes , but when you are dealing with baking software peoples very health and welfare are at stake .
Great scott man , raw eggs can kill !
Banking software is not nearly as stringent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well yes, but when you are dealing with baking software peoples very health and welfare are at stake.
Great scott man, raw eggs can kill!
Banking software is not nearly as stringent.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651007</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651977</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247250480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Everybody spells it wrong.</p><p>It's "ATMachine" and "PINumber"</p><p>Duh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Everybody spells it wrong.It 's " ATMachine " and " PINumber " Duh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everybody spells it wrong.It's "ATMachine" and "PINumber"Duh.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28654627</id>
	<title>Re:How it works.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247218440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So unless you can open up a bank account, deposit $100 of seed money into it, and get an ATM card for it anonymously, it won't work for long before you wind up in jail.  Why is it that these sorts of things always sound so promising at first, but then as soon as you find out how they actually work, you're all like "Aw crap, another stupid scam with flaws in it that can't quite beat having to drag myself out of bed to go to work every day in the long run."  They're always like the lottery.  $100 million would be so righteous, but then you do the math and it's like "Sheeeeeit man... If I had $70 million for enough tickets to have a decent shot at this, I wouldn't need the $100 million."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So unless you can open up a bank account , deposit $ 100 of seed money into it , and get an ATM card for it anonymously , it wo n't work for long before you wind up in jail .
Why is it that these sorts of things always sound so promising at first , but then as soon as you find out how they actually work , you 're all like " Aw crap , another stupid scam with flaws in it that ca n't quite beat having to drag myself out of bed to go to work every day in the long run .
" They 're always like the lottery .
$ 100 million would be so righteous , but then you do the math and it 's like " Sheeeeeit man... If I had $ 70 million for enough tickets to have a decent shot at this , I would n't need the $ 100 million .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So unless you can open up a bank account, deposit $100 of seed money into it, and get an ATM card for it anonymously, it won't work for long before you wind up in jail.
Why is it that these sorts of things always sound so promising at first, but then as soon as you find out how they actually work, you're all like "Aw crap, another stupid scam with flaws in it that can't quite beat having to drag myself out of bed to go to work every day in the long run.
"  They're always like the lottery.
$100 million would be so righteous, but then you do the math and it's like "Sheeeeeit man... If I had $70 million for enough tickets to have a decent shot at this, I wouldn't need the $100 million.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652447</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247252100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I know it seems redundant, but there's actually a pretty good rationale for repeating the last word of an acronym after the letters. Otherwise, you'd have no indication whether this was an exploit for an Automated Teller Machine or an Asynchronous Transfer Mode network. Slightly more unlikely is that it would be for Adobe Type Manager.</p><p>Sure, you can pick it up from the context of the rest of the story, but you have to wait until the line about cash machines before it's no longer ambiguous. Adding the word "machines" after the first ATM makes it easier to read.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I know it seems redundant , but there 's actually a pretty good rationale for repeating the last word of an acronym after the letters .
Otherwise , you 'd have no indication whether this was an exploit for an Automated Teller Machine or an Asynchronous Transfer Mode network .
Slightly more unlikely is that it would be for Adobe Type Manager.Sure , you can pick it up from the context of the rest of the story , but you have to wait until the line about cash machines before it 's no longer ambiguous .
Adding the word " machines " after the first ATM makes it easier to read .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know it seems redundant, but there's actually a pretty good rationale for repeating the last word of an acronym after the letters.
Otherwise, you'd have no indication whether this was an exploit for an Automated Teller Machine or an Asynchronous Transfer Mode network.
Slightly more unlikely is that it would be for Adobe Type Manager.Sure, you can pick it up from the context of the rest of the story, but you have to wait until the line about cash machines before it's no longer ambiguous.
Adding the word "machines" after the first ATM makes it easier to read.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650055</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28654349</id>
	<title>Re:How it works.</title>
	<author>brufar</author>
	<datestamp>1247217120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>ATMs keep track of how much cash is in the dispenser (entered into the system when the cash is loaded)  It keeps track of all transactions, successful or failed. <br> <br>

The inexpensive retail ATM's we manufacture can track how much cash was dispensed if the dispense was not complete, of if there was an issue and cash was diverted from being dispensed into the reject tray. The terminal will automatically reverse a transaction if it failed to fully or partially dispense the requested cash during a transaction, and will credit the difference back to your account. <br> <br>

 I have a hard time believing a machine that costs $1500.00 can do all that yet a $50k ATM on the side of a bank cannot.   Banks also reconcile their machines nightly, comparing the cash in the Dispenser cassettes, the reject tray, and the transaction journal reports. It had better all balance. I own and operate several ATMs and I can assure you I check to ensure everything balances..  <br> <br>

So if there was One transaction where the machine pulled back the '$300.00 you failed to remove from the machine' and everything doesn't balance, when they reconcile the machine,  how hard do you really think it would be for them to figure out ? I say it would take them less than 5 minutes to find where the money went. <br> <br>

If what you mention was actively being exploited the banks would be loosing money and they would not sit idly by, I am positive they would be going after the manufacturer of the machine with a vengeance, and the issue wouldn't be hanging out there for 8 months..</htmltext>
<tokenext>ATMs keep track of how much cash is in the dispenser ( entered into the system when the cash is loaded ) It keeps track of all transactions , successful or failed .
The inexpensive retail ATM 's we manufacture can track how much cash was dispensed if the dispense was not complete , of if there was an issue and cash was diverted from being dispensed into the reject tray .
The terminal will automatically reverse a transaction if it failed to fully or partially dispense the requested cash during a transaction , and will credit the difference back to your account .
I have a hard time believing a machine that costs $ 1500.00 can do all that yet a $ 50k ATM on the side of a bank can not .
Banks also reconcile their machines nightly , comparing the cash in the Dispenser cassettes , the reject tray , and the transaction journal reports .
It had better all balance .
I own and operate several ATMs and I can assure you I check to ensure everything balances. . So if there was One transaction where the machine pulled back the ' $ 300.00 you failed to remove from the machine ' and everything does n't balance , when they reconcile the machine , how hard do you really think it would be for them to figure out ?
I say it would take them less than 5 minutes to find where the money went .
If what you mention was actively being exploited the banks would be loosing money and they would not sit idly by , I am positive they would be going after the manufacturer of the machine with a vengeance , and the issue would n't be hanging out there for 8 months. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ATMs keep track of how much cash is in the dispenser (entered into the system when the cash is loaded)  It keeps track of all transactions, successful or failed.
The inexpensive retail ATM's we manufacture can track how much cash was dispensed if the dispense was not complete, of if there was an issue and cash was diverted from being dispensed into the reject tray.
The terminal will automatically reverse a transaction if it failed to fully or partially dispense the requested cash during a transaction, and will credit the difference back to your account.
I have a hard time believing a machine that costs $1500.00 can do all that yet a $50k ATM on the side of a bank cannot.
Banks also reconcile their machines nightly, comparing the cash in the Dispenser cassettes, the reject tray, and the transaction journal reports.
It had better all balance.
I own and operate several ATMs and I can assure you I check to ensure everything balances..   

So if there was One transaction where the machine pulled back the '$300.00 you failed to remove from the machine' and everything doesn't balance, when they reconcile the machine,  how hard do you really think it would be for them to figure out ?
I say it would take them less than 5 minutes to find where the money went.
If what you mention was actively being exploited the banks would be loosing money and they would not sit idly by, I am positive they would be going after the manufacturer of the machine with a vengeance, and the issue wouldn't be hanging out there for 8 months..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652941</id>
	<title>Re:What I don't get</title>
	<author>commodoresloat</author>
	<datestamp>1247254020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Is why everyone cares so much about Money. It's just pieces of paper and little bits of metal. What really matters is Love.</p></div><p>This vulnerability affects only automated teller machines today, but how long before it affects ALMs?  (Automatic Love Machines)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is why everyone cares so much about Money .
It 's just pieces of paper and little bits of metal .
What really matters is Love.This vulnerability affects only automated teller machines today , but how long before it affects ALMs ?
( Automatic Love Machines )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is why everyone cares so much about Money.
It's just pieces of paper and little bits of metal.
What really matters is Love.This vulnerability affects only automated teller machines today, but how long before it affects ALMs?
(Automatic Love Machines)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28653585</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>KraftDinner</author>
	<datestamp>1247256600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'll take my chances and hope that out of the 0.001\% of people that get hit with this when they release it, won't be me. People getting hit with this hack will also make the banks move their collective asses in patching this. It's terrible for the people that get hit with it, but it's the only way the banks will listen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll take my chances and hope that out of the 0.001 \ % of people that get hit with this when they release it , wo n't be me .
People getting hit with this hack will also make the banks move their collective asses in patching this .
It 's terrible for the people that get hit with it , but it 's the only way the banks will listen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll take my chances and hope that out of the 0.001\% of people that get hit with this when they release it, won't be me.
People getting hit with this hack will also make the banks move their collective asses in patching this.
It's terrible for the people that get hit with it, but it's the only way the banks will listen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650373</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651041</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247245500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>'ATM' has been a  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-acronym" title="wikipedia.org">pseudo-acronym</a> [wikipedia.org] since people stopped using the phrase 'automated teller machine' except to pretend that saying 'ATM machine' is silly. Bah!</htmltext>
<tokenext>'ATM ' has been a pseudo-acronym [ wikipedia.org ] since people stopped using the phrase 'automated teller machine ' except to pretend that saying 'ATM machine ' is silly .
Bah !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'ATM' has been a  pseudo-acronym [wikipedia.org] since people stopped using the phrase 'automated teller machine' except to pretend that saying 'ATM machine' is silly.
Bah!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650055</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652859</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>commodoresloat</author>
	<datestamp>1247253780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Oh, just STFU up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh , just STFU up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh, just STFU up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650623</id>
	<title>Never fear, BH presentation likely</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247244000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>For those of you who aren't aware, the Black Hat tradition for vulnerability presentations which have been similarly blocked due to court orders, etc. is to offer BH a replacement safe/bland presentation and then deliver the banned exploit demonstration regardless.  This action typically results in a large lawsuit against the researcher's employer, subsequent termination of the researcher, and a short-lived rock star notoriety for the researcher making the afore mentioned termination totally worth it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For those of you who are n't aware , the Black Hat tradition for vulnerability presentations which have been similarly blocked due to court orders , etc .
is to offer BH a replacement safe/bland presentation and then deliver the banned exploit demonstration regardless .
This action typically results in a large lawsuit against the researcher 's employer , subsequent termination of the researcher , and a short-lived rock star notoriety for the researcher making the afore mentioned termination totally worth it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For those of you who aren't aware, the Black Hat tradition for vulnerability presentations which have been similarly blocked due to court orders, etc.
is to offer BH a replacement safe/bland presentation and then deliver the banned exploit demonstration regardless.
This action typically results in a large lawsuit against the researcher's employer, subsequent termination of the researcher, and a short-lived rock star notoriety for the researcher making the afore mentioned termination totally worth it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652427</id>
	<title>Re:How it works.</title>
	<author>drrck</author>
	<datestamp>1247251980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seems pretty traceable then.  Look for a specific account being queried or debited and credited in rapid succession.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seems pretty traceable then .
Look for a specific account being queried or debited and credited in rapid succession .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seems pretty traceable then.
Look for a specific account being queried or debited and credited in rapid succession.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651317</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>jellomizer</author>
	<datestamp>1247246940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Lets jump to a conclusion that it is an easy to fix problem.<br>And creating and deploying this would be cake.<br>They may have the fix but have to manually go to the systems to fix them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lets jump to a conclusion that it is an easy to fix problem.And creating and deploying this would be cake.They may have the fix but have to manually go to the systems to fix them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lets jump to a conclusion that it is an easy to fix problem.And creating and deploying this would be cake.They may have the fix but have to manually go to the systems to fix them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651339</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>T Murphy</author>
	<datestamp>1247247060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I say he gives the companies a deadline when he'll publicize the hack. Put the ball in their court.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I say he gives the companies a deadline when he 'll publicize the hack .
Put the ball in their court .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I say he gives the companies a deadline when he'll publicize the hack.
Put the ball in their court.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650551</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247243640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unfortunately there is no way to know whether the "security of ATMs" is still intact. Individuals less scrupulous than the researcher may have already found this vulnerability and may be actively exploiting it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately there is no way to know whether the " security of ATMs " is still intact .
Individuals less scrupulous than the researcher may have already found this vulnerability and may be actively exploiting it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately there is no way to know whether the "security of ATMs" is still intact.
Individuals less scrupulous than the researcher may have already found this vulnerability and may be actively exploiting it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650373</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650809</id>
	<title>Re:WinCE when you say that</title>
	<author>Ray</author>
	<datestamp>1247244660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uh, no. Now WE'RE reaping the reward for their ignorance.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh , no .
Now WE 'RE reaping the reward for their ignorance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh, no.
Now WE'RE reaping the reward for their ignorance.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28653331</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>sjames</author>
	<datestamp>1247255640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, they don't. The innocent customers of the banks that bought the machines do deserve a reprieve. THEN, the manufacturers and banks that were notified and took no steps for 8 months deserve a very public name and shame session.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , they do n't .
The innocent customers of the banks that bought the machines do deserve a reprieve .
THEN , the manufacturers and banks that were notified and took no steps for 8 months deserve a very public name and shame session .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, they don't.
The innocent customers of the banks that bought the machines do deserve a reprieve.
THEN, the manufacturers and banks that were notified and took no steps for 8 months deserve a very public name and shame session.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28653809</id>
	<title>8 months might not be enough time</title>
	<author>quietwalker</author>
	<datestamp>1247257620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Working in the banking software industry myself, I can tell you that anything associated with ATMs is incredibly slow to change.  Unlike, say, computerized voting, ATM software generally has to go through scads of certification and changes.  Usually 2-3 companies must actively collude to provide the entire system, if not more, and all of them have to have their systems certified in turn.</p><p>To make matters less urgent, everything is traceable.  For a bank, culpability (accountability if you pardon the pun) is more important than theft prevention.  I don't mean that the actual thief is found, but rather, that there's a log of every transaction and operation.</p><p>No urgency and a huge barrier to change, coupled with a very low rate of occurence - not really a 'real' problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Working in the banking software industry myself , I can tell you that anything associated with ATMs is incredibly slow to change .
Unlike , say , computerized voting , ATM software generally has to go through scads of certification and changes .
Usually 2-3 companies must actively collude to provide the entire system , if not more , and all of them have to have their systems certified in turn.To make matters less urgent , everything is traceable .
For a bank , culpability ( accountability if you pardon the pun ) is more important than theft prevention .
I do n't mean that the actual thief is found , but rather , that there 's a log of every transaction and operation.No urgency and a huge barrier to change , coupled with a very low rate of occurence - not really a 'real ' problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Working in the banking software industry myself, I can tell you that anything associated with ATMs is incredibly slow to change.
Unlike, say, computerized voting, ATM software generally has to go through scads of certification and changes.
Usually 2-3 companies must actively collude to provide the entire system, if not more, and all of them have to have their systems certified in turn.To make matters less urgent, everything is traceable.
For a bank, culpability (accountability if you pardon the pun) is more important than theft prevention.
I don't mean that the actual thief is found, but rather, that there's a log of every transaction and operation.No urgency and a huge barrier to change, coupled with a very low rate of occurence - not really a 'real' problem.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650793</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>neomunk</author>
	<datestamp>1247244600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The argument being made isn't that people should get hacked, so this should be released.  The argument being made is that by withholding this information corporate complacency will allow whoever is ALREADY using this exploit to continue to do so (as it has for the past 8 months).  Your argument falls down from the point of view that releasing the information will force the company to promptly issue a fix for the vulnerability.  In fact, your point of view is only valid if the company cannot or will not patch the exploit.  Security through obscurity is a joke, plain and simple, trying to strengthen security via ARTIFICIAL obscurity is just plain desperate.  If you really care about your accounts, push for fixes not whitewashes.</p><p>So, I say, for the sake of protecting the customer, this should be released.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The argument being made is n't that people should get hacked , so this should be released .
The argument being made is that by withholding this information corporate complacency will allow whoever is ALREADY using this exploit to continue to do so ( as it has for the past 8 months ) .
Your argument falls down from the point of view that releasing the information will force the company to promptly issue a fix for the vulnerability .
In fact , your point of view is only valid if the company can not or will not patch the exploit .
Security through obscurity is a joke , plain and simple , trying to strengthen security via ARTIFICIAL obscurity is just plain desperate .
If you really care about your accounts , push for fixes not whitewashes.So , I say , for the sake of protecting the customer , this should be released .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The argument being made isn't that people should get hacked, so this should be released.
The argument being made is that by withholding this information corporate complacency will allow whoever is ALREADY using this exploit to continue to do so (as it has for the past 8 months).
Your argument falls down from the point of view that releasing the information will force the company to promptly issue a fix for the vulnerability.
In fact, your point of view is only valid if the company cannot or will not patch the exploit.
Security through obscurity is a joke, plain and simple, trying to strengthen security via ARTIFICIAL obscurity is just plain desperate.
If you really care about your accounts, push for fixes not whitewashes.So, I say, for the sake of protecting the customer, this should be released.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650635</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>arose</author>
	<datestamp>1247244000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Current situation: society as a whole does not know the vulnerability or it's scope, criminals might or might not know the vulnerability and might or might not be actively exploiting it.</p><p>Full disclosure:anyone with enough brains and guts can exploit the vulnerability, society at large can take steps to minimize the risk since it is now known what exactly the risk is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Current situation : society as a whole does not know the vulnerability or it 's scope , criminals might or might not know the vulnerability and might or might not be actively exploiting it.Full disclosure : anyone with enough brains and guts can exploit the vulnerability , society at large can take steps to minimize the risk since it is now known what exactly the risk is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Current situation: society as a whole does not know the vulnerability or it's scope, criminals might or might not know the vulnerability and might or might not be actively exploiting it.Full disclosure:anyone with enough brains and guts can exploit the vulnerability, society at large can take steps to minimize the risk since it is now known what exactly the risk is.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650373</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650383</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>nthitz</author>
	<datestamp>1247242980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Agreed, 8 months is long enough. If they haven't fixed it by now, they certainly need some incentive to!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed , 8 months is long enough .
If they have n't fixed it by now , they certainly need some incentive to !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed, 8 months is long enough.
If they haven't fixed it by now, they certainly need some incentive to!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651483</id>
	<title>How it works.</title>
	<author>mbarkhau</author>
	<datestamp>1247247840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I only read this on another forum so take with a grain of salt.<br>
<br>
The hack is based on the assumption that if you make a withdrawal from  an ATM and don't take the money you forgot to take it, so the machine takes the money back and refunds the amount to your account.<br>
<br>
The thing is that the machine doesn't have a way to count how much bills it takes back, so you can just take the bills from the middle and you will get a full refund.<br>
<br>
Supposedly this also works if you take the money right before the ATM pulls back in the money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I only read this on another forum so take with a grain of salt .
The hack is based on the assumption that if you make a withdrawal from an ATM and do n't take the money you forgot to take it , so the machine takes the money back and refunds the amount to your account .
The thing is that the machine does n't have a way to count how much bills it takes back , so you can just take the bills from the middle and you will get a full refund .
Supposedly this also works if you take the money right before the ATM pulls back in the money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I only read this on another forum so take with a grain of salt.
The hack is based on the assumption that if you make a withdrawal from  an ATM and don't take the money you forgot to take it, so the machine takes the money back and refunds the amount to your account.
The thing is that the machine doesn't have a way to count how much bills it takes back, so you can just take the bills from the middle and you will get a full refund.
Supposedly this also works if you take the money right before the ATM pulls back in the money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28653713</id>
	<title>Why wait?</title>
	<author>despeaux</author>
	<datestamp>1247257020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hackers won't wait.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hackers wo n't wait .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hackers won't wait.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650113</id>
	<title>What I don't get</title>
	<author>For a Free Internet</author>
	<datestamp>1247242020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is why everyone cares so much about Money. It's just pieces of paper and little bits of metal. What really matters is Love! If people stopped worrying about money then maybe there wouldn't be so much poverty and swine flues. Also, I read that Linuxes are free, so, again, we don't need money anymore, since our computers are free! Look at the big picture, people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is why everyone cares so much about Money .
It 's just pieces of paper and little bits of metal .
What really matters is Love !
If people stopped worrying about money then maybe there would n't be so much poverty and swine flues .
Also , I read that Linuxes are free , so , again , we do n't need money anymore , since our computers are free !
Look at the big picture , people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is why everyone cares so much about Money.
It's just pieces of paper and little bits of metal.
What really matters is Love!
If people stopped worrying about money then maybe there wouldn't be so much poverty and swine flues.
Also, I read that Linuxes are free, so, again, we don't need money anymore, since our computers are free!
Look at the big picture, people.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650195</id>
	<title>Re:What I don't get</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247242260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We're slashdotters, who would love us...?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:'(</p><p>They say you can't buy love, but it can be hired.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're slashdotters , who would love us... ?
: ' ( They say you ca n't buy love , but it can be hired .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're slashdotters, who would love us...?
:'(They say you can't buy love, but it can be hired.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28654089</id>
	<title>Re:How it works.</title>
	<author>not-my-real-name</author>
	<datestamp>1247259000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I remember hearing something like that a long time ago.  This is certainly not a new idea.  I'm pretty sure that it was fixed too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember hearing something like that a long time ago .
This is certainly not a new idea .
I 'm pretty sure that it was fixed too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember hearing something like that a long time ago.
This is certainly not a new idea.
I'm pretty sure that it was fixed too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650537</id>
	<title>Another odd device running Windows CE</title>
	<author>RyoShin</author>
	<datestamp>1247243580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's unfortunately not too odd to hear that ATMs run Windows (especially with some of the error messages I've seen).  But there are even odder devices running Windows.</p><p>I work at a somewhat-hated international retailing chain that will go unnamed, and while working there the other night my merchandise scanner, one of the portable hand-held ones used on the floor, froze.  Not uncommon, but when I reset it it booted into Windows CE. A normal windows desktop.  I tried starting Windows Media Player, but it wouldn't do anything.  The funny thing is that when it works properly, it uses minimal ASCII art and no graphics at all.</p><p>Why these kind of things need to use Windows is beyond me.  Windows, security issues aside, is alright for general purpose machines, but not highly-specialized machines like a scanner or ATM.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's unfortunately not too odd to hear that ATMs run Windows ( especially with some of the error messages I 've seen ) .
But there are even odder devices running Windows.I work at a somewhat-hated international retailing chain that will go unnamed , and while working there the other night my merchandise scanner , one of the portable hand-held ones used on the floor , froze .
Not uncommon , but when I reset it it booted into Windows CE .
A normal windows desktop .
I tried starting Windows Media Player , but it would n't do anything .
The funny thing is that when it works properly , it uses minimal ASCII art and no graphics at all.Why these kind of things need to use Windows is beyond me .
Windows , security issues aside , is alright for general purpose machines , but not highly-specialized machines like a scanner or ATM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's unfortunately not too odd to hear that ATMs run Windows (especially with some of the error messages I've seen).
But there are even odder devices running Windows.I work at a somewhat-hated international retailing chain that will go unnamed, and while working there the other night my merchandise scanner, one of the portable hand-held ones used on the floor, froze.
Not uncommon, but when I reset it it booted into Windows CE.
A normal windows desktop.
I tried starting Windows Media Player, but it wouldn't do anything.
The funny thing is that when it works properly, it uses minimal ASCII art and no graphics at all.Why these kind of things need to use Windows is beyond me.
Windows, security issues aside, is alright for general purpose machines, but not highly-specialized machines like a scanner or ATM.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650327</id>
	<title>Re:WinCE when you say that</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247242800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Think about the CHILDREN!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and eye candy</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Think about the CHILDREN !
... and eye candy</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Think about the CHILDREN!
... and eye candy</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28654319</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>Phrogman</author>
	<datestamp>1247217000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Companies *deserve* nothing. After all they are morally completely neutral, and cannot be relied on to have their customer's interests at heart. All they have at heart is their share price, and responsibility to their shareholders.</p><p>The person who discovered this hack should have simply warned the company of its existence, providing all the details required to fix the problem, and if after giving them the very generous period of 8 months, nothing has been done, then the whole of the details including the company name and subsidiaries should have  been published - preferably somewhere like a full page spread in the NY Times.</p><p>As long as companies can continue to shut down embarassing details concerning their irresponsible behaviour, we have a major problem.</p><p>I tend to think of corporations - and by extension all of Capitalism - as evil these days. It takes a company going a lot of extra miles to give the impression they wouldn't shoot my grandmother if they thought it would improve their profit margin. Think of all the meaningless deaths and ruined lives that could have been fixed if only some company actually gave a rats flaming ass about public safety.</p><p>Perhaps its time to get rid of the Company as a "corporate citizen" and make the CEO's of the company directly responsible and culpable for its actions. Then we might see some responsibility. Oh court costs should have to be paid out of their pockets too<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Companies * deserve * nothing .
After all they are morally completely neutral , and can not be relied on to have their customer 's interests at heart .
All they have at heart is their share price , and responsibility to their shareholders.The person who discovered this hack should have simply warned the company of its existence , providing all the details required to fix the problem , and if after giving them the very generous period of 8 months , nothing has been done , then the whole of the details including the company name and subsidiaries should have been published - preferably somewhere like a full page spread in the NY Times.As long as companies can continue to shut down embarassing details concerning their irresponsible behaviour , we have a major problem.I tend to think of corporations - and by extension all of Capitalism - as evil these days .
It takes a company going a lot of extra miles to give the impression they would n't shoot my grandmother if they thought it would improve their profit margin .
Think of all the meaningless deaths and ruined lives that could have been fixed if only some company actually gave a rats flaming ass about public safety.Perhaps its time to get rid of the Company as a " corporate citizen " and make the CEO 's of the company directly responsible and culpable for its actions .
Then we might see some responsibility .
Oh court costs should have to be paid out of their pockets too : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Companies *deserve* nothing.
After all they are morally completely neutral, and cannot be relied on to have their customer's interests at heart.
All they have at heart is their share price, and responsibility to their shareholders.The person who discovered this hack should have simply warned the company of its existence, providing all the details required to fix the problem, and if after giving them the very generous period of 8 months, nothing has been done, then the whole of the details including the company name and subsidiaries should have  been published - preferably somewhere like a full page spread in the NY Times.As long as companies can continue to shut down embarassing details concerning their irresponsible behaviour, we have a major problem.I tend to think of corporations - and by extension all of Capitalism - as evil these days.
It takes a company going a lot of extra miles to give the impression they wouldn't shoot my grandmother if they thought it would improve their profit margin.
Think of all the meaningless deaths and ruined lives that could have been fixed if only some company actually gave a rats flaming ass about public safety.Perhaps its time to get rid of the Company as a "corporate citizen" and make the CEO's of the company directly responsible and culpable for its actions.
Then we might see some responsibility.
Oh court costs should have to be paid out of their pockets too :P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28653199</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>VisceralLogic</author>
	<datestamp>1247255100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>...it must be pretty abstract, since an "automated teller machine machine" is apparently running in emulation anyhow.</p></div><p>Perhaps the "machine" is to distinguish from the other potential meanings of ATM... such as "asynchronous transfer mode."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...it must be pretty abstract , since an " automated teller machine machine " is apparently running in emulation anyhow.Perhaps the " machine " is to distinguish from the other potential meanings of ATM... such as " asynchronous transfer mode .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...it must be pretty abstract, since an "automated teller machine machine" is apparently running in emulation anyhow.Perhaps the "machine" is to distinguish from the other potential meanings of ATM... such as "asynchronous transfer mode.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650055</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651457</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247247540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whether or not they "deserve" the time, you and your bank will take the hit.  You will be temporarily put out, and the bank will have to make you whole.  The bank will have a helluva time collecting damages from the ATM vendor.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whether or not they " deserve " the time , you and your bank will take the hit .
You will be temporarily put out , and the bank will have to make you whole .
The bank will have a helluva time collecting damages from the ATM vendor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whether or not they "deserve" the time, you and your bank will take the hit.
You will be temporarily put out, and the bank will have to make you whole.
The bank will have a helluva time collecting damages from the ATM vendor.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650915</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>MattXBlack</author>
	<datestamp>1247245080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You mean a personal PIN number?</htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean a personal PIN number ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean a personal PIN number?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650291</id>
	<title>Re:WinCE when you say that</title>
	<author>ArhcAngel</author>
	<datestamp>1247242620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree, they should have kept using <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ATM\_OS2\_Crash.jpg" title="wikipedia.org">OS/2</a> [wikipedia.org].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree , they should have kept using OS/2 [ wikipedia.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree, they should have kept using OS/2 [wikipedia.org].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650745</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>MickyTheIdiot</author>
	<datestamp>1247244360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No.  But I'd be even LESS surprised if the vulnerability simply gave money to of George Bush's bank account.</p><p>Go ahead and mod me "troll," but the only reason Diebold didn't "deliver" the election to George Bush is because they weren't organized and/or smart enough to do it.  They had every opportunity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
But I 'd be even LESS surprised if the vulnerability simply gave money to of George Bush 's bank account.Go ahead and mod me " troll , " but the only reason Diebold did n't " deliver " the election to George Bush is because they were n't organized and/or smart enough to do it .
They had every opportunity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
But I'd be even LESS surprised if the vulnerability simply gave money to of George Bush's bank account.Go ahead and mod me "troll," but the only reason Diebold didn't "deliver" the election to George Bush is because they weren't organized and/or smart enough to do it.
They had every opportunity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650277</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650115</id>
	<title>WinCE when you say that</title>
	<author>mspohr</author>
	<datestamp>1247242020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can't believe that people use WinCE for a real world application that requires security and reliability.  The morons who built these systems are reaping the reward for their ignorance.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't believe that people use WinCE for a real world application that requires security and reliability .
The morons who built these systems are reaping the reward for their ignorance .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't believe that people use WinCE for a real world application that requires security and reliability.
The morons who built these systems are reaping the reward for their ignorance.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651679</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247249040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>in order to be able to enter a "PIN number".</p></div><p>So what your saying is, I have to enter a PI number...  Damn, this is gonna take a while</p><p>3.1415....</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>in order to be able to enter a " PIN number " .So what your saying is , I have to enter a PI number... Damn , this is gon na take a while3.1415... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>in order to be able to enter a "PIN number".So what your saying is, I have to enter a PI number...  Damn, this is gonna take a while3.1415....
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652223</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>DeadCatX2</author>
	<datestamp>1247251260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hope the keypad isn't connected to the computer via the USB <i>bus</i></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hope the keypad is n't connected to the computer via the USB bus</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hope the keypad isn't connected to the computer via the USB bus</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651515</id>
	<title>Re:Another odd device running Windows CE</title>
	<author>PPH</author>
	<datestamp>1247248140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why these kind of things need to use Windows is beyond me. Windows, security issues aside, is alright for general purpose machines, but not highly-specialized machines like a scanner or ATM.</p></div><p>Because Microsoft makes it very easy to build apps on a Windows desktop, using Microsoft tools and then move the executable onto another Windows platform. Sure, its possible to develop in a Windows environment for some other target O/S. But it takes extra steps.
</p><p>Many s/w shops look at app development from the programmers point of view rather than the end user. If the tools and development processes have kewl features ad are cheap, great. If the user or admins have to suffer, well that's not their problem (and might be an opportunity for additional revenue to fix it).
</p><p>*I've formulated this idea after having worked on applications in which the s/w developers, the administrators and the users were all part of the same organization. Nothing will make one run away from Windows any faster.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why these kind of things need to use Windows is beyond me .
Windows , security issues aside , is alright for general purpose machines , but not highly-specialized machines like a scanner or ATM.Because Microsoft makes it very easy to build apps on a Windows desktop , using Microsoft tools and then move the executable onto another Windows platform .
Sure , its possible to develop in a Windows environment for some other target O/S .
But it takes extra steps .
Many s/w shops look at app development from the programmers point of view rather than the end user .
If the tools and development processes have kewl features ad are cheap , great .
If the user or admins have to suffer , well that 's not their problem ( and might be an opportunity for additional revenue to fix it ) .
* I 've formulated this idea after having worked on applications in which the s/w developers , the administrators and the users were all part of the same organization .
Nothing will make one run away from Windows any faster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why these kind of things need to use Windows is beyond me.
Windows, security issues aside, is alright for general purpose machines, but not highly-specialized machines like a scanner or ATM.Because Microsoft makes it very easy to build apps on a Windows desktop, using Microsoft tools and then move the executable onto another Windows platform.
Sure, its possible to develop in a Windows environment for some other target O/S.
But it takes extra steps.
Many s/w shops look at app development from the programmers point of view rather than the end user.
If the tools and development processes have kewl features ad are cheap, great.
If the user or admins have to suffer, well that's not their problem (and might be an opportunity for additional revenue to fix it).
*I've formulated this idea after having worked on applications in which the s/w developers, the administrators and the users were all part of the same organization.
Nothing will make one run away from Windows any faster.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650537</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650525</id>
	<title>Re:WinCE when you say that</title>
	<author>Jamie's Nightmare</author>
	<datestamp>1247243580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I call bullshit.  We didn't even get to see the demonstration itself.  It's entirely possible that the no OS could prevent the style of intrusion that was going to be demonstrated.  But, you get get extra Microsoft bashing points just for pointing out the host OS used, whether or not it was part of the problem.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I call bullshit .
We did n't even get to see the demonstration itself .
It 's entirely possible that the no OS could prevent the style of intrusion that was going to be demonstrated .
But , you get get extra Microsoft bashing points just for pointing out the host OS used , whether or not it was part of the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I call bullshit.
We didn't even get to see the demonstration itself.
It's entirely possible that the no OS could prevent the style of intrusion that was going to be demonstrated.
But, you get get extra Microsoft bashing points just for pointing out the host OS used, whether or not it was part of the problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28658959</id>
	<title>ATM Running Windows CE</title>
	<author>Phoghat</author>
	<datestamp>1247315280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What idiots let them run on windows CE in the first place? With my CE device I do the soft reset dance 3 times a day, at least.<p>
They couldn't find something more stable and secure?????</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What idiots let them run on windows CE in the first place ?
With my CE device I do the soft reset dance 3 times a day , at least .
They could n't find something more stable and secure ? ? ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What idiots let them run on windows CE in the first place?
With my CE device I do the soft reset dance 3 times a day, at least.
They couldn't find something more stable and secure????
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28655633</id>
	<title>Any financial institution dumb enough to depend on</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247225280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>WinCE deserves whatever comes their way.  There is NO reason that an ATM can't run the FREE embedded Linux kernel and a custom banking app.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>WinCE deserves whatever comes their way .
There is NO reason that an ATM ca n't run the FREE embedded Linux kernel and a custom banking app .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>WinCE deserves whatever comes their way.
There is NO reason that an ATM can't run the FREE embedded Linux kernel and a custom banking app.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650055</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651083</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247245800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're working under the assumption that this hack is not already out in the wild.</p><p>In fact, to protect the customer, it should be released to the general public: if everyone knows about the dangers of using an ATM, then they won't use one.  Hence, their account info will be safer because it won't be taken by a rogue system.  Plus, it gives the company much greater incentive to fix the problem and restore trust.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're working under the assumption that this hack is not already out in the wild.In fact , to protect the customer , it should be released to the general public : if everyone knows about the dangers of using an ATM , then they wo n't use one .
Hence , their account info will be safer because it wo n't be taken by a rogue system .
Plus , it gives the company much greater incentive to fix the problem and restore trust .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're working under the assumption that this hack is not already out in the wild.In fact, to protect the customer, it should be released to the general public: if everyone knows about the dangers of using an ATM, then they won't use one.
Hence, their account info will be safer because it won't be taken by a rogue system.
Plus, it gives the company much greater incentive to fix the problem and restore trust.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650471</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651309</id>
	<title>Total Cost of Ownership</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247246940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, did anybody factor this into those Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) figures?</p><p>1. Cost to find security flaws<br>2. Cost to fix security flaws<br>3. Cost to deploy fix<br>4. Losses due to security flaw exploits<br>5. Cost to suppress black hat who's going to tell the world how to #4 with style<br>6. ???<br>N. PROFIT!!!11!1!elevenone!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , did anybody factor this into those Total Cost of Ownership ( TCO ) figures ? 1 .
Cost to find security flaws2 .
Cost to fix security flaws3 .
Cost to deploy fix4 .
Losses due to security flaw exploits5 .
Cost to suppress black hat who 's going to tell the world how to # 4 with style6 .
? ? ? N. PROFIT ! !
! 11 ! 1 ! elevenone !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, did anybody factor this into those Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) figures?1.
Cost to find security flaws2.
Cost to fix security flaws3.
Cost to deploy fix4.
Losses due to security flaw exploits5.
Cost to suppress black hat who's going to tell the world how to #4 with style6.
???N. PROFIT!!
!11!1!elevenone!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650277</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247242620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We're talking Diebold here, why are you surprised?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're talking Diebold here , why are you surprised ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're talking Diebold here, why are you surprised?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650731</id>
	<title>Re:What I don't get</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247244360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>If people stopped worrying about money then maybe there wouldn't be so much poverty and swine flues.</i></p></div><p>I don't worry about money cause I just steal yours, you dumb moonbat</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If people stopped worrying about money then maybe there would n't be so much poverty and swine flues.I do n't worry about money cause I just steal yours , you dumb moonbat</tokentext>
<sentencetext> If people stopped worrying about money then maybe there wouldn't be so much poverty and swine flues.I don't worry about money cause I just steal yours, you dumb moonbat
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650577</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>N Monkey</author>
	<datestamp>1247243760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>...it must be pretty abstract, since an "automated teller machine machine" is apparently running in emulation anyhow.</p></div><p>No. It <i>has</i> to be an "ATM <i>Machine</i>" to in order to be able to enter a "PIN <i>number</i>".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>...it must be pretty abstract , since an " automated teller machine machine " is apparently running in emulation anyhow.No .
It has to be an " ATM Machine " to in order to be able to enter a " PIN number " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...it must be pretty abstract, since an "automated teller machine machine" is apparently running in emulation anyhow.No.
It has to be an "ATM Machine" to in order to be able to enter a "PIN number".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650055</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651299</id>
	<title>Re:If it's an exploit for ATM *Machines*...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247246820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The <a href="http://www.trollaxor.com/2009/07/some-questions-comments-about-firefox.html" title="trollaxor.com" rel="nofollow">ATM hack</a> [trollaxor.com] in question.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The ATM hack [ trollaxor.com ] in question .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The ATM hack [trollaxor.com] in question.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650055</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650721</id>
	<title>Not forced!</title>
	<author>Sockatume</author>
	<datestamp>1247244300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The article is transparent in saying that he chose to cancel his own presentation on his own volition, <i>because</i> it hadn't been fixed yet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The article is transparent in saying that he chose to cancel his own presentation on his own volition , because it had n't been fixed yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article is transparent in saying that he chose to cancel his own presentation on his own volition, because it hadn't been fixed yet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651957</id>
	<title>Re:Ridiculous</title>
	<author>Haxzaw</author>
	<datestamp>1247250420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, they do deserve time, in jail.  Just kidding, but a fine wouldn't hurt at all considering how they sat on it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , they do deserve time , in jail .
Just kidding , but a fine would n't hurt at all considering how they sat on it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, they do deserve time, in jail.
Just kidding, but a fine wouldn't hurt at all considering how they sat on it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28656007</id>
	<title>Hahaha!  some folks dream job there...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247228040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>" director of corporate social media relations for Juniper"  so.. you get paid to F off all day and talk to your friends on Twitter and MySpace all day...  And get paid for it?   Juniper needs to get their act in gear and pay some people to WORK.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" director of corporate social media relations for Juniper " so.. you get paid to F off all day and talk to your friends on Twitter and MySpace all day... And get paid for it ?
Juniper needs to get their act in gear and pay some people to WORK .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>" director of corporate social media relations for Juniper"  so.. you get paid to F off all day and talk to your friends on Twitter and MySpace all day...  And get paid for it?
Juniper needs to get their act in gear and pay some people to WORK.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652673</id>
	<title>Re:How it works.</title>
	<author>St.Creed</author>
	<datestamp>1247253060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Congratulations, you've cought out everyone that day who forgot to take out his or her cash<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>As long as people don't do this every day for weeks on end, they won't get caught.</p><p>Although I find it unlikely that there is no counting mechanism in an ATM - they need to be able to count the bills to give out. Could be done by a distribution mechanism though, and returned bills just go into a stack? Input from experts would be appreciated<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Congratulations , you 've cought out everyone that day who forgot to take out his or her cash : ) As long as people do n't do this every day for weeks on end , they wo n't get caught.Although I find it unlikely that there is no counting mechanism in an ATM - they need to be able to count the bills to give out .
Could be done by a distribution mechanism though , and returned bills just go into a stack ?
Input from experts would be appreciated : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Congratulations, you've cought out everyone that day who forgot to take out his or her cash :)As long as people don't do this every day for weeks on end, they won't get caught.Although I find it unlikely that there is no counting mechanism in an ATM - they need to be able to count the bills to give out.
Could be done by a distribution mechanism though, and returned bills just go into a stack?
Input from experts would be appreciated :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652427</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28653949</id>
	<title>Re:How it works.</title>
	<author>Fnord666</author>
	<datestamp>1247258340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The thing is that the machine doesn't have a way to count how much bills it takes back, so you can just take the bills from the middle and you will get a full refund.</p></div>
</blockquote><p>
Except that the bills taken back go into s separate hopper, the transaction is marked questionable, and a hold is likely placed on the funds until the transaction can be settled manually.  The misdispense may also cause the ATM to be taken out of service until it can be checked.  Certainly that will happen if more than one misdispense occurs.  Fraud monitoring software may detect a pattern of unusual misdispenses on a particular card and flag that for investigation as well.
</p><p>
Even if this did work, I don't see how it would be related to the particular operating system used on the ATM.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The thing is that the machine does n't have a way to count how much bills it takes back , so you can just take the bills from the middle and you will get a full refund .
Except that the bills taken back go into s separate hopper , the transaction is marked questionable , and a hold is likely placed on the funds until the transaction can be settled manually .
The misdispense may also cause the ATM to be taken out of service until it can be checked .
Certainly that will happen if more than one misdispense occurs .
Fraud monitoring software may detect a pattern of unusual misdispenses on a particular card and flag that for investigation as well .
Even if this did work , I do n't see how it would be related to the particular operating system used on the ATM .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The thing is that the machine doesn't have a way to count how much bills it takes back, so you can just take the bills from the middle and you will get a full refund.
Except that the bills taken back go into s separate hopper, the transaction is marked questionable, and a hold is likely placed on the funds until the transaction can be settled manually.
The misdispense may also cause the ATM to be taken out of service until it can be checked.
Certainly that will happen if more than one misdispense occurs.
Fraud monitoring software may detect a pattern of unusual misdispenses on a particular card and flag that for investigation as well.
Even if this did work, I don't see how it would be related to the particular operating system used on the ATM.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651483</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_10_145202_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651211
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650065
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_10_145202_45</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651515
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650537
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_10_145202_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651041
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650055
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_10_145202_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651957
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</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_10_145202_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28653705
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650577
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650055
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_10_145202_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652673
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652427
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28651483
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_10_145202_35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28652223
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650577
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</commentlist>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_10_145202_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650525
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650115
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_10_145202_42</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_10_145202.28650809
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</commentlist>
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