<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_07_237224</id>
	<title>Toyota Builds a Patent Thicket For Hybrid Cars</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1246973820000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Lorien\_the\_first\_one sends along a WSJ piece reporting on how Toyota is hoping to benefit from new Obama Administration regulations for automobiles here in the US. <i>"Since it started developing the gas-electric Prius more than a decade ago, Toyota has kept its attorneys just as busy as its engineers, meticulously filing for <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124640553503576637.html?mod=googlenews\_wsj">patents on more than 2,000 systems and components</a> for its best-selling hybrid. Its third-generation Prius, which hit showrooms in May, accounts for about half of those patents alone. Toyota's goal: to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from Toyota, as Ford Motor Co. already did to make its Escape hybrid and Nissan Motor Co. has for its Altima hybrid."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Lorien \ _the \ _first \ _one sends along a WSJ piece reporting on how Toyota is hoping to benefit from new Obama Administration regulations for automobiles here in the US .
" Since it started developing the gas-electric Prius more than a decade ago , Toyota has kept its attorneys just as busy as its engineers , meticulously filing for patents on more than 2,000 systems and components for its best-selling hybrid .
Its third-generation Prius , which hit showrooms in May , accounts for about half of those patents alone .
Toyota 's goal : to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from Toyota , as Ford Motor Co. already did to make its Escape hybrid and Nissan Motor Co. has for its Altima hybrid .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lorien\_the\_first\_one sends along a WSJ piece reporting on how Toyota is hoping to benefit from new Obama Administration regulations for automobiles here in the US.
"Since it started developing the gas-electric Prius more than a decade ago, Toyota has kept its attorneys just as busy as its engineers, meticulously filing for patents on more than 2,000 systems and components for its best-selling hybrid.
Its third-generation Prius, which hit showrooms in May, accounts for about half of those patents alone.
Toyota's goal: to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from Toyota, as Ford Motor Co. already did to make its Escape hybrid and Nissan Motor Co. has for its Altima hybrid.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28619829</id>
	<title>States of matter</title>
	<author>phunkygeeza</author>
	<datestamp>1247057580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Gas is an anonymous gas, Petrol is a liquid</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gas is an anonymous gas , Petrol is a liquid</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gas is an anonymous gas, Petrol is a liquid</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617057</id>
	<title>Re:Toyota's goal: to protect it's hard work...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246980840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Atkinson cycle engine technology in the Prius is based on the engine invented by Atkinson to avoid Otto's patents on the internal combustion engine.  The idea of the patent is to protect the inventor.  A side effect of that is to spur creativity in others to develop alternatives that don't violate the patents.  That doesn't mean that no one else can make a hybrid without paying Toyota, it means that they can avoid Toyota's patents by inventing a different hybrid technology.  I haven't heard of Honda paying Toyota for the hybrid tech they put in the Civic and other hybrid models.</p><p>American researchers in universities did a lot of R&amp;D on hybrids back in the '60s - it's time for the American auto companies to continue that.</p><p>BTW - my understanding is that Ford didn't pay for Toyota's technology because it was easier than inventing their own.  Rather, they invented their own hybrid tech but it was not sufficiently different from Toyota's in the end and they had to pay as a result.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Atkinson cycle engine technology in the Prius is based on the engine invented by Atkinson to avoid Otto 's patents on the internal combustion engine .
The idea of the patent is to protect the inventor .
A side effect of that is to spur creativity in others to develop alternatives that do n't violate the patents .
That does n't mean that no one else can make a hybrid without paying Toyota , it means that they can avoid Toyota 's patents by inventing a different hybrid technology .
I have n't heard of Honda paying Toyota for the hybrid tech they put in the Civic and other hybrid models.American researchers in universities did a lot of R&amp;D on hybrids back in the '60s - it 's time for the American auto companies to continue that.BTW - my understanding is that Ford did n't pay for Toyota 's technology because it was easier than inventing their own .
Rather , they invented their own hybrid tech but it was not sufficiently different from Toyota 's in the end and they had to pay as a result .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Atkinson cycle engine technology in the Prius is based on the engine invented by Atkinson to avoid Otto's patents on the internal combustion engine.
The idea of the patent is to protect the inventor.
A side effect of that is to spur creativity in others to develop alternatives that don't violate the patents.
That doesn't mean that no one else can make a hybrid without paying Toyota, it means that they can avoid Toyota's patents by inventing a different hybrid technology.
I haven't heard of Honda paying Toyota for the hybrid tech they put in the Civic and other hybrid models.American researchers in universities did a lot of R&amp;D on hybrids back in the '60s - it's time for the American auto companies to continue that.BTW - my understanding is that Ford didn't pay for Toyota's technology because it was easier than inventing their own.
Rather, they invented their own hybrid tech but it was not sufficiently different from Toyota's in the end and they had to pay as a result.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616839</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28629281</id>
	<title>Re:Prior art?</title>
	<author>hazydave</author>
	<datestamp>1247052360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Prius is not really a series hybrid... or a parallel hybrid, it's both.</p><p>As some have mentioned, a series hybrid (Chevy Volt, diesel-electric train) powers the wheels from an electric motor. When it runs on fuel, the fuel drives a generator, which in turn provides electricity for the motor.</p><p>In a Prius, you can do that... the ICE can run, transfer mechanical power to the small electric motor/generator (MG1), generate electricity to the large electric motor/generator (MG2), which then moves the wheels. In fact, you have to run this way if you're in reverse and the traction battery isn't full... there's no gear shifting, thus, no direct-ICE driven reverse gear.</p><p>But going through the same simple gearbox (power split device), the ICE can directly drive the Prius final drivetrain... with or without MG2 kicking in. In that mode, it's acting as a parallel hybrid. You can see a Java-based simulator here:<br>http://www.wind.sannet.ne.jp/m\_matsu/prius/ThsSimu/index\_i18n.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Prius is not really a series hybrid... or a parallel hybrid , it 's both.As some have mentioned , a series hybrid ( Chevy Volt , diesel-electric train ) powers the wheels from an electric motor .
When it runs on fuel , the fuel drives a generator , which in turn provides electricity for the motor.In a Prius , you can do that... the ICE can run , transfer mechanical power to the small electric motor/generator ( MG1 ) , generate electricity to the large electric motor/generator ( MG2 ) , which then moves the wheels .
In fact , you have to run this way if you 're in reverse and the traction battery is n't full... there 's no gear shifting , thus , no direct-ICE driven reverse gear.But going through the same simple gearbox ( power split device ) , the ICE can directly drive the Prius final drivetrain... with or without MG2 kicking in .
In that mode , it 's acting as a parallel hybrid .
You can see a Java-based simulator here : http : //www.wind.sannet.ne.jp/m \ _matsu/prius/ThsSimu/index \ _i18n.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Prius is not really a series hybrid... or a parallel hybrid, it's both.As some have mentioned, a series hybrid (Chevy Volt, diesel-electric train) powers the wheels from an electric motor.
When it runs on fuel, the fuel drives a generator, which in turn provides electricity for the motor.In a Prius, you can do that... the ICE can run, transfer mechanical power to the small electric motor/generator (MG1), generate electricity to the large electric motor/generator (MG2), which then moves the wheels.
In fact, you have to run this way if you're in reverse and the traction battery isn't full... there's no gear shifting, thus, no direct-ICE driven reverse gear.But going through the same simple gearbox (power split device), the ICE can directly drive the Prius final drivetrain... with or without MG2 kicking in.
In that mode, it's acting as a parallel hybrid.
You can see a Java-based simulator here:http://www.wind.sannet.ne.jp/m\_matsu/prius/ThsSimu/index\_i18n.html</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616849</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28624015</id>
	<title>Re:Car makers shouldnt be making these cars anyway</title>
	<author>rcw-home</author>
	<datestamp>1247074380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Why? Don't you incur a net loss in efficiency by converting mechanical power to electrical and back to mechanical?</p></div></blockquote><p>
Yes, you do. However, as conversions go, it's not that bad - 90 to 98\% (better for larger motors). It's possible to lose more by running an engine at suboptimal speeds (idle, for example) or by letting braking energy go to heat instead.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why ?
Do n't you incur a net loss in efficiency by converting mechanical power to electrical and back to mechanical ?
Yes , you do .
However , as conversions go , it 's not that bad - 90 to 98 \ % ( better for larger motors ) .
It 's possible to lose more by running an engine at suboptimal speeds ( idle , for example ) or by letting braking energy go to heat instead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why?
Don't you incur a net loss in efficiency by converting mechanical power to electrical and back to mechanical?
Yes, you do.
However, as conversions go, it's not that bad - 90 to 98\% (better for larger motors).
It's possible to lose more by running an engine at suboptimal speeds (idle, for example) or by letting braking energy go to heat instead.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616957</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618545</id>
	<title>Re:I just want a goddamned diesel here in the US</title>
	<author>tonyr60</author>
	<datestamp>1246995600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We bought one, they are insanely fuel efficient (we thought the fuel guage was broken at first) and the performance is amazing.  There is a battery though, albeit a conventional starting battery rather than a large hybrid type battery.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We bought one , they are insanely fuel efficient ( we thought the fuel guage was broken at first ) and the performance is amazing .
There is a battery though , albeit a conventional starting battery rather than a large hybrid type battery .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We bought one, they are insanely fuel efficient (we thought the fuel guage was broken at first) and the performance is amazing.
There is a battery though, albeit a conventional starting battery rather than a large hybrid type battery.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28627089</id>
	<title>Re:I just want a goddamned diesel here in the US</title>
	<author>Spoke</author>
	<datestamp>1247084880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fuel efficiency is only really comparable on the highway.  Hybrids tend to blow diesels away in the city.  So yeah, if you do a lot of highway driving, a clean diesel is a good choice.  You can even get one in the US now - the Jetta.  They've been selling very well.</p><p>Just don't forget that diesel has an inherent ~15\% advantage over gasoline cars because of the higher energy (and CO2) content per gallon.</p><p>Diesel also enjoys a hefty price advantage over in Europe over gasoline.  Diesel is slightly cheaper than gas right now in the US, but it hasn't always been.</p><p>BTW, not only is soot a harmful byproduct from diesels, NOx emissions also tend to be significantly higher.  Only recently in the US have soot and NOx emissions from diesels sold in the US come close to matching their gasoline powered counterparts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fuel efficiency is only really comparable on the highway .
Hybrids tend to blow diesels away in the city .
So yeah , if you do a lot of highway driving , a clean diesel is a good choice .
You can even get one in the US now - the Jetta .
They 've been selling very well.Just do n't forget that diesel has an inherent ~ 15 \ % advantage over gasoline cars because of the higher energy ( and CO2 ) content per gallon.Diesel also enjoys a hefty price advantage over in Europe over gasoline .
Diesel is slightly cheaper than gas right now in the US , but it has n't always been.BTW , not only is soot a harmful byproduct from diesels , NOx emissions also tend to be significantly higher .
Only recently in the US have soot and NOx emissions from diesels sold in the US come close to matching their gasoline powered counterparts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fuel efficiency is only really comparable on the highway.
Hybrids tend to blow diesels away in the city.
So yeah, if you do a lot of highway driving, a clean diesel is a good choice.
You can even get one in the US now - the Jetta.
They've been selling very well.Just don't forget that diesel has an inherent ~15\% advantage over gasoline cars because of the higher energy (and CO2) content per gallon.Diesel also enjoys a hefty price advantage over in Europe over gasoline.
Diesel is slightly cheaper than gas right now in the US, but it hasn't always been.BTW, not only is soot a harmful byproduct from diesels, NOx emissions also tend to be significantly higher.
Only recently in the US have soot and NOx emissions from diesels sold in the US come close to matching their gasoline powered counterparts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617515</id>
	<title>Re:Kudos to them</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1246985520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>This is exactly what patents *should* be used for: secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product.</p></div></blockquote><p>Yeah, but all too often the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. hivemnind defines "innovator" strictly as "someone I [like|agree with}approve of|all of the above]".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is exactly what patents * should * be used for : secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product.Yeah , but all too often the / .
hivemnind defines " innovator " strictly as " someone I [ like | agree with } approve of | all of the above ] " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is exactly what patents *should* be used for: secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product.Yeah, but all too often the /.
hivemnind defines "innovator" strictly as "someone I [like|agree with}approve of|all of the above]".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28625501</id>
	<title>Patents are obsolete bullsh*t</title>
	<author>TheDarkener</author>
	<datestamp>1247079420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This story pisses me right off. Have we not come to a point in our history where we realise that preserving our home planet is more important than individual wealth? Inventions and progress regarding ways to better life here on Earth should be exempt from patent law. It should be part of science and geopreservation, which should get international grants and funding. It needs to be like open source.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This story pisses me right off .
Have we not come to a point in our history where we realise that preserving our home planet is more important than individual wealth ?
Inventions and progress regarding ways to better life here on Earth should be exempt from patent law .
It should be part of science and geopreservation , which should get international grants and funding .
It needs to be like open source .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This story pisses me right off.
Have we not come to a point in our history where we realise that preserving our home planet is more important than individual wealth?
Inventions and progress regarding ways to better life here on Earth should be exempt from patent law.
It should be part of science and geopreservation, which should get international grants and funding.
It needs to be like open source.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617497</id>
	<title>Re:June 1994 -- Le Mans and Chrysler's hybrid</title>
	<author>DerekLyons</author>
	<datestamp>1246985280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The neat idea behind Chrysler's design is that the turbine must be de-coupled from the drive train. The electric engine is the thing that is moving the car. This way the turbine can run at the most efficient RPM.</p></div></blockquote><p>That's not a particularly new idea...  Diesel-electric submarines were built this way back in the 1930's.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The neat idea behind Chrysler 's design is that the turbine must be de-coupled from the drive train .
The electric engine is the thing that is moving the car .
This way the turbine can run at the most efficient RPM.That 's not a particularly new idea... Diesel-electric submarines were built this way back in the 1930 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The neat idea behind Chrysler's design is that the turbine must be de-coupled from the drive train.
The electric engine is the thing that is moving the car.
This way the turbine can run at the most efficient RPM.That's not a particularly new idea...  Diesel-electric submarines were built this way back in the 1930's.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617021</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617505</id>
	<title>Re:Toyota's goal: to protect it's hard work...</title>
	<author>jo\_ham</author>
	<datestamp>1246985460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They didn't "have to pay", they just decided to licence Toyota's system because it was very similar and was much, much better than Ford's. So they decided to carry on in the same vein, but skip the R&amp;D and buy a much better performance system "off the shelf" rather than continue to refine their own version, which is a good use of the patent system - Toyota developed it after all, and put in a lot of time and money, so for Ford to benefit from that, they can licence it and get a ready researched system right off the bat.</p><p>They could have kept on with their own R&amp;D, but it had already been done and was cheaper to licence to get the added bonuses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They did n't " have to pay " , they just decided to licence Toyota 's system because it was very similar and was much , much better than Ford 's .
So they decided to carry on in the same vein , but skip the R&amp;D and buy a much better performance system " off the shelf " rather than continue to refine their own version , which is a good use of the patent system - Toyota developed it after all , and put in a lot of time and money , so for Ford to benefit from that , they can licence it and get a ready researched system right off the bat.They could have kept on with their own R&amp;D , but it had already been done and was cheaper to licence to get the added bonuses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They didn't "have to pay", they just decided to licence Toyota's system because it was very similar and was much, much better than Ford's.
So they decided to carry on in the same vein, but skip the R&amp;D and buy a much better performance system "off the shelf" rather than continue to refine their own version, which is a good use of the patent system - Toyota developed it after all, and put in a lot of time and money, so for Ford to benefit from that, they can licence it and get a ready researched system right off the bat.They could have kept on with their own R&amp;D, but it had already been done and was cheaper to licence to get the added bonuses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28631379</id>
	<title>Re:Toyota's goal: to protect it's hard work...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247065980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So it's a fact that Toyota's goal is to prevent any one else from making hybrids without licensing?</p><p>Or maybe their goal is to protect their hard earned IP that they spent ten years working on while the rest of the world laughed at them?</p><p>Good work , Toyota. you deserve those patents.</p></div><p>These two goals are the same thing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So it 's a fact that Toyota 's goal is to prevent any one else from making hybrids without licensing ? Or maybe their goal is to protect their hard earned IP that they spent ten years working on while the rest of the world laughed at them ? Good work , Toyota .
you deserve those patents.These two goals are the same thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So it's a fact that Toyota's goal is to prevent any one else from making hybrids without licensing?Or maybe their goal is to protect their hard earned IP that they spent ten years working on while the rest of the world laughed at them?Good work , Toyota.
you deserve those patents.These two goals are the same thing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616839</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28753225</id>
	<title>Re:Kudos to them</title>
	<author>Teriblows</author>
	<datestamp>1248029280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>so disagree, these patents are probably for common sense mechanisms that have nothing innovative about them and make the patent system a joke.  simple abuse by corporations looking to put road blocks in front other competitors knowing that even their dodgiest patents cost a massive load of lawyer cost and time cost to invalidate/contest.  nothing is innovative about the prius. Its just a product cobbled together from existing technologies. Innovation would mean something new, like a substantially improved battery for instance.  This is nothing more than playing games.</htmltext>
<tokenext>so disagree , these patents are probably for common sense mechanisms that have nothing innovative about them and make the patent system a joke .
simple abuse by corporations looking to put road blocks in front other competitors knowing that even their dodgiest patents cost a massive load of lawyer cost and time cost to invalidate/contest .
nothing is innovative about the prius .
Its just a product cobbled together from existing technologies .
Innovation would mean something new , like a substantially improved battery for instance .
This is nothing more than playing games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so disagree, these patents are probably for common sense mechanisms that have nothing innovative about them and make the patent system a joke.
simple abuse by corporations looking to put road blocks in front other competitors knowing that even their dodgiest patents cost a massive load of lawyer cost and time cost to invalidate/contest.
nothing is innovative about the prius.
Its just a product cobbled together from existing technologies.
Innovation would mean something new, like a substantially improved battery for instance.
This is nothing more than playing games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28626647</id>
	<title>Re:I just want a goddamned diesel here in the US</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247083200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Quite a few automakers, yes even US automakers, make extremely efficient diesels for EU, Africa, and Asia markets...  Blame CA, USA for emissions laws that make selling them as non-50 state legal in the US less likely..  Also blame congress critters and petroleum lobbyists for us not having *sulfur free* diesel as the standard in the US. (that would solve the CA, USA issues... mostly)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Quite a few automakers , yes even US automakers , make extremely efficient diesels for EU , Africa , and Asia markets... Blame CA , USA for emissions laws that make selling them as non-50 state legal in the US less likely.. Also blame congress critters and petroleum lobbyists for us not having * sulfur free * diesel as the standard in the US .
( that would solve the CA , USA issues... mostly )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quite a few automakers, yes even US automakers, make extremely efficient diesels for EU, Africa, and Asia markets...  Blame CA, USA for emissions laws that make selling them as non-50 state legal in the US less likely..  Also blame congress critters and petroleum lobbyists for us not having *sulfur free* diesel as the standard in the US.
(that would solve the CA, USA issues... mostly)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28619943</id>
	<title>land vs patent</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247059020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Land is regularly taken by the government for public (or private) use in America under the assumption that it will benefit the public good. Why is this principle not followed for patents?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Land is regularly taken by the government for public ( or private ) use in America under the assumption that it will benefit the public good .
Why is this principle not followed for patents ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Land is regularly taken by the government for public (or private) use in America under the assumption that it will benefit the public good.
Why is this principle not followed for patents?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618277</id>
	<title>final thought = excessive</title>
	<author>maxwells\_deamon</author>
	<datestamp>1246993020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At first, I agreed with most of the posts above in wanting Toyota to have some protection for the work they have done.
<p>
Then I thought about it some more and I began to be angered at the idea of 1K+ patents.  That is just unreal.
</p><p>
Just think of the cost to research for prior art on that many patents if you were to do a good faith effort.  No large corp spends the money/time to do a real search!
</p><p>
Either they are doing this as a reward to employees (some companies give bonus for patents) or they are building a war chest for patent/legal wars, or they are trying to control the market.
</p><p>
None of the above fits with the intent of the patent system.  Perhaps,  big companies should be fined if they file patents covered by prior art.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At first , I agreed with most of the posts above in wanting Toyota to have some protection for the work they have done .
Then I thought about it some more and I began to be angered at the idea of 1K + patents .
That is just unreal .
Just think of the cost to research for prior art on that many patents if you were to do a good faith effort .
No large corp spends the money/time to do a real search !
Either they are doing this as a reward to employees ( some companies give bonus for patents ) or they are building a war chest for patent/legal wars , or they are trying to control the market .
None of the above fits with the intent of the patent system .
Perhaps , big companies should be fined if they file patents covered by prior art .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At first, I agreed with most of the posts above in wanting Toyota to have some protection for the work they have done.
Then I thought about it some more and I began to be angered at the idea of 1K+ patents.
That is just unreal.
Just think of the cost to research for prior art on that many patents if you were to do a good faith effort.
No large corp spends the money/time to do a real search!
Either they are doing this as a reward to employees (some companies give bonus for patents) or they are building a war chest for patent/legal wars, or they are trying to control the market.
None of the above fits with the intent of the patent system.
Perhaps,  big companies should be fined if they file patents covered by prior art.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617305</id>
	<title>Defensive not offensive.</title>
	<author>shadowblaster</author>
	<datestamp>1246983360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>It is common for tecnology companies to file patents for defensive purposes. The purpose is not specifically to prevent others to compete but rather to prevent patent trolls to extort money from them in the future. Having as many things related to your product patented create a body of prior arts that can be used to fight suits by these trolls.


What happens in an industry where there are a few major players (car, printers, etc) is that they end up cross licensing each others' patents anyway. This way the can focus on producing and selling their products without having to deal with lawsuits from patent trolls all the time.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It is common for tecnology companies to file patents for defensive purposes .
The purpose is not specifically to prevent others to compete but rather to prevent patent trolls to extort money from them in the future .
Having as many things related to your product patented create a body of prior arts that can be used to fight suits by these trolls .
What happens in an industry where there are a few major players ( car , printers , etc ) is that they end up cross licensing each others ' patents anyway .
This way the can focus on producing and selling their products without having to deal with lawsuits from patent trolls all the time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is common for tecnology companies to file patents for defensive purposes.
The purpose is not specifically to prevent others to compete but rather to prevent patent trolls to extort money from them in the future.
Having as many things related to your product patented create a body of prior arts that can be used to fight suits by these trolls.
What happens in an industry where there are a few major players (car, printers, etc) is that they end up cross licensing each others' patents anyway.
This way the can focus on producing and selling their products without having to deal with lawsuits from patent trolls all the time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616833</id>
	<title>Re:Kudos to them</title>
	<author>wiggle.e</author>
	<datestamp>1246978440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Agreed,

Toyota did the R&amp;D and they deserve to profit from it for ~20 years.<br> <br>

People should be glad that they are willing to license out there patents.  They could have made it a lot tougher on Ford.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Agreed , Toyota did the R&amp;D and they deserve to profit from it for ~ 20 years .
People should be glad that they are willing to license out there patents .
They could have made it a lot tougher on Ford .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Agreed,

Toyota did the R&amp;D and they deserve to profit from it for ~20 years.
People should be glad that they are willing to license out there patents.
They could have made it a lot tougher on Ford.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617009</id>
	<title>Re:Kudos to them</title>
	<author>dbIII</author>
	<datestamp>1246980540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Innovators?  I first saw a working hybrid car in 1987.  It was already being used daily at a mine site so there would have been a few prototypes prior to that.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Innovators ?
I first saw a working hybrid car in 1987 .
It was already being used daily at a mine site so there would have been a few prototypes prior to that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Innovators?
I first saw a working hybrid car in 1987.
It was already being used daily at a mine site so there would have been a few prototypes prior to that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617021</id>
	<title>June 1994 -- Le Mans and Chrysler's hybrid</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246980600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you think Japanese companies were the only ones working on hybrids, take a look at this article from June 1994:</p><p><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=053lJ8sFTAYC&amp;lpg=PA101&amp;dq=le\%20mans\%20electric&amp;as\_pt=MAGAZINES&amp;pg=PA101" title="google.com">Formula Hybrid at Le Mans</a> [google.com]</p><p>The neat idea behind Chrysler's design is that the turbine must be de-coupled from the drive train.  The electric engine is the thing that is moving the car.  This way the turbine can run at the most efficient RPM.</p><p>The fact is that American car companies built cars that could actually make a profit on.  Those vehicles were SUV's.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think Japanese companies were the only ones working on hybrids , take a look at this article from June 1994 : Formula Hybrid at Le Mans [ google.com ] The neat idea behind Chrysler 's design is that the turbine must be de-coupled from the drive train .
The electric engine is the thing that is moving the car .
This way the turbine can run at the most efficient RPM.The fact is that American car companies built cars that could actually make a profit on .
Those vehicles were SUV 's .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think Japanese companies were the only ones working on hybrids, take a look at this article from June 1994:Formula Hybrid at Le Mans [google.com]The neat idea behind Chrysler's design is that the turbine must be de-coupled from the drive train.
The electric engine is the thing that is moving the car.
This way the turbine can run at the most efficient RPM.The fact is that American car companies built cars that could actually make a profit on.
Those vehicles were SUV's.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617765</id>
	<title>Re:Kudos to them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246987140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Doesn't matter, for instance, Ford and Nissan need only to reinvest in hybrid tech and make a better selling hybrid that's lets them dominate the market. Then they can buy a 25-49\% stake in Toyota and eliminate the licensing fees through corporate law...</p><p>.</p><p>Patents make sense 100yrs ago, but corporations can move so fast nowadays that unless it's a completely breakthru technology (like Qualcomm stuff for example, hybrids not so much), the licensing will hurt in the long run since tech gets commoditized so quickly nowadays.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't matter , for instance , Ford and Nissan need only to reinvest in hybrid tech and make a better selling hybrid that 's lets them dominate the market .
Then they can buy a 25-49 \ % stake in Toyota and eliminate the licensing fees through corporate law....Patents make sense 100yrs ago , but corporations can move so fast nowadays that unless it 's a completely breakthru technology ( like Qualcomm stuff for example , hybrids not so much ) , the licensing will hurt in the long run since tech gets commoditized so quickly nowadays .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't matter, for instance, Ford and Nissan need only to reinvest in hybrid tech and make a better selling hybrid that's lets them dominate the market.
Then they can buy a 25-49\% stake in Toyota and eliminate the licensing fees through corporate law....Patents make sense 100yrs ago, but corporations can move so fast nowadays that unless it's a completely breakthru technology (like Qualcomm stuff for example, hybrids not so much), the licensing will hurt in the long run since tech gets commoditized so quickly nowadays.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28629403</id>
	<title>Re:Prior art?</title>
	<author>hazydave</author>
	<datestamp>1247053020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, a parallel system is like Honda's -- the electric motor and ICE always run in parallel.</p><p>The Toyota system can behave as either a series or parallel hybrid system, depending on the interactions between the ICE, MG1, and MG2. One easy example... if you're in reverse, and there's not enough juice in the traction battery, the ICE and MG1 will kick on and generate electricity. They have to... the Prius has a permanent, fixed gear set.. there's no mechanical reverse gear.</p><p>You wouldn't ordinarily run into a series hybrid mode going forward... it's possible to do it, but the computer would likely opt to directly drive from the ICE, since that's more efficient than a series hybrid mode would be. The series mode would also be limited in speed, just like "stealth" mode (electric-only).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , a parallel system is like Honda 's -- the electric motor and ICE always run in parallel.The Toyota system can behave as either a series or parallel hybrid system , depending on the interactions between the ICE , MG1 , and MG2 .
One easy example... if you 're in reverse , and there 's not enough juice in the traction battery , the ICE and MG1 will kick on and generate electricity .
They have to... the Prius has a permanent , fixed gear set.. there 's no mechanical reverse gear.You would n't ordinarily run into a series hybrid mode going forward... it 's possible to do it , but the computer would likely opt to directly drive from the ICE , since that 's more efficient than a series hybrid mode would be .
The series mode would also be limited in speed , just like " stealth " mode ( electric-only ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, a parallel system is like Honda's -- the electric motor and ICE always run in parallel.The Toyota system can behave as either a series or parallel hybrid system, depending on the interactions between the ICE, MG1, and MG2.
One easy example... if you're in reverse, and there's not enough juice in the traction battery, the ICE and MG1 will kick on and generate electricity.
They have to... the Prius has a permanent, fixed gear set.. there's no mechanical reverse gear.You wouldn't ordinarily run into a series hybrid mode going forward... it's possible to do it, but the computer would likely opt to directly drive from the ICE, since that's more efficient than a series hybrid mode would be.
The series mode would also be limited in speed, just like "stealth" mode (electric-only).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616961</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616749</id>
	<title>Notice: I have patented first posts</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246977780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Please seek licensing before attempting to post first.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Please seek licensing before attempting to post first .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Please seek licensing before attempting to post first.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616911</id>
	<title>Ford does not license Hybrid tech from Toyota</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246979400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is a common misconception, but Ford does not license their hybrid technology from Toyota.  Related post at Autoblog where they explain:  http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/05/editorial-attention-i-wall-street-journal-i-ford-does-b-n/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a common misconception , but Ford does not license their hybrid technology from Toyota .
Related post at Autoblog where they explain : http : //www.autoblog.com/2009/07/05/editorial-attention-i-wall-street-journal-i-ford-does-b-n/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a common misconception, but Ford does not license their hybrid technology from Toyota.
Related post at Autoblog where they explain:  http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/05/editorial-attention-i-wall-street-journal-i-ford-does-b-n/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617083</id>
	<title>US auto makers blew it by mid 2001</title>
	<author>Locutus</author>
	<datestamp>1246981200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They had been working half-assed on hybrids since 1993 and were more than happy to give all that up to take cash from the US government to show million dollar hydrogen prototype cars and trucks. Can you say dumb? Unfortunately, the US government is allowing them to continue operating and sticking US citizens with the bill. IMO, any of those three which couldn't continue operating should have been parted out and the remains crushed like GM did with the EV1. What a waste of money and it is their own fault Toyota is going to stomp on them with patent licensing costs as they should. After all, Toyota was the one who had to endure about 8 years of bashing by the US press and US auto makers for doing hybrid systems. They even had to endure a law suite by Mobile/Texaco when Toyota and Panasonic built prismatic NiMH batteries the oil company said were outside of the NiMH patent licenses which Mobile/Texaco purchased from GM. The large NiMH batteries used in the Rav4 EV had to be discontinued but at a cost of millions of dollars, they were allowed to continue making and using the prismatic design used in the Prius battery packs. Toyota deserves to be rewarded for what they've done with and for hybrid system designs. <br>
&nbsp; </p><p>LoB<br>
&nbsp; </p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They had been working half-assed on hybrids since 1993 and were more than happy to give all that up to take cash from the US government to show million dollar hydrogen prototype cars and trucks .
Can you say dumb ?
Unfortunately , the US government is allowing them to continue operating and sticking US citizens with the bill .
IMO , any of those three which could n't continue operating should have been parted out and the remains crushed like GM did with the EV1 .
What a waste of money and it is their own fault Toyota is going to stomp on them with patent licensing costs as they should .
After all , Toyota was the one who had to endure about 8 years of bashing by the US press and US auto makers for doing hybrid systems .
They even had to endure a law suite by Mobile/Texaco when Toyota and Panasonic built prismatic NiMH batteries the oil company said were outside of the NiMH patent licenses which Mobile/Texaco purchased from GM .
The large NiMH batteries used in the Rav4 EV had to be discontinued but at a cost of millions of dollars , they were allowed to continue making and using the prismatic design used in the Prius battery packs .
Toyota deserves to be rewarded for what they 've done with and for hybrid system designs .
  LoB  </tokentext>
<sentencetext>They had been working half-assed on hybrids since 1993 and were more than happy to give all that up to take cash from the US government to show million dollar hydrogen prototype cars and trucks.
Can you say dumb?
Unfortunately, the US government is allowing them to continue operating and sticking US citizens with the bill.
IMO, any of those three which couldn't continue operating should have been parted out and the remains crushed like GM did with the EV1.
What a waste of money and it is their own fault Toyota is going to stomp on them with patent licensing costs as they should.
After all, Toyota was the one who had to endure about 8 years of bashing by the US press and US auto makers for doing hybrid systems.
They even had to endure a law suite by Mobile/Texaco when Toyota and Panasonic built prismatic NiMH batteries the oil company said were outside of the NiMH patent licenses which Mobile/Texaco purchased from GM.
The large NiMH batteries used in the Rav4 EV had to be discontinued but at a cost of millions of dollars, they were allowed to continue making and using the prismatic design used in the Prius battery packs.
Toyota deserves to be rewarded for what they've done with and for hybrid system designs.
  LoB
  </sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617229</id>
	<title>How much of this is relavent to generic hybrids?</title>
	<author>Banzai042</author>
	<datestamp>1246982700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Given that Honda seems convinced that their tech doesn't conflict with any Toyota patents I'm curious as to how specific these patents are.  If they're general enough for any automaker to run afoul of them just by making any sort of hybrid system then I'd imagine they could be invalidated through prior art.  If they're much more specific to the Prius drivetrain then there are other questions, like how many patents deal directly with the drivetrain, vs control software, or other elements like battery tech?  If it does get to that point then it can be debated if the public good of having more hybrids from different automakers outweighs the legitimate issue of rewarding Toyota for spending years and what was probably a fair sum of money in the development of their hybrid tech.  I imagine that these patents cover a combination of the 2, and ford (and others) have decided that paying Toyota is cheaper than bringing a legitimate challange.
<br>
I'd guess that at least a few of these patents deal with the weird new "cvt" that only uses planetary gears instead of belts or chains, which is a pretty significant and original idea for a car.  A simulation of the gear system can be found here: <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/inachan/prius/planet\_e.html" title="mac.com" rel="nofollow">http://homepage.mac.com/inachan/prius/planet\_e.html</a> [mac.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Given that Honda seems convinced that their tech does n't conflict with any Toyota patents I 'm curious as to how specific these patents are .
If they 're general enough for any automaker to run afoul of them just by making any sort of hybrid system then I 'd imagine they could be invalidated through prior art .
If they 're much more specific to the Prius drivetrain then there are other questions , like how many patents deal directly with the drivetrain , vs control software , or other elements like battery tech ?
If it does get to that point then it can be debated if the public good of having more hybrids from different automakers outweighs the legitimate issue of rewarding Toyota for spending years and what was probably a fair sum of money in the development of their hybrid tech .
I imagine that these patents cover a combination of the 2 , and ford ( and others ) have decided that paying Toyota is cheaper than bringing a legitimate challange .
I 'd guess that at least a few of these patents deal with the weird new " cvt " that only uses planetary gears instead of belts or chains , which is a pretty significant and original idea for a car .
A simulation of the gear system can be found here : http : //homepage.mac.com/inachan/prius/planet \ _e.html [ mac.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given that Honda seems convinced that their tech doesn't conflict with any Toyota patents I'm curious as to how specific these patents are.
If they're general enough for any automaker to run afoul of them just by making any sort of hybrid system then I'd imagine they could be invalidated through prior art.
If they're much more specific to the Prius drivetrain then there are other questions, like how many patents deal directly with the drivetrain, vs control software, or other elements like battery tech?
If it does get to that point then it can be debated if the public good of having more hybrids from different automakers outweighs the legitimate issue of rewarding Toyota for spending years and what was probably a fair sum of money in the development of their hybrid tech.
I imagine that these patents cover a combination of the 2, and ford (and others) have decided that paying Toyota is cheaper than bringing a legitimate challange.
I'd guess that at least a few of these patents deal with the weird new "cvt" that only uses planetary gears instead of belts or chains, which is a pretty significant and original idea for a car.
A simulation of the gear system can be found here: http://homepage.mac.com/inachan/prius/planet\_e.html [mac.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617895</id>
	<title>Re:The Solution is Obvious</title>
	<author>Planesdragon</author>
	<datestamp>1246988340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you want everyone to build hybrids or other efficeint cars, you simply CAN NOT allow one company to have a stranglehold on the technology!</p></div><p>Quite right.  As soon as Toyota uses their "mammoth" patent portfolio to keep GM or Ford from making hybrid cars, the government should step in... and institute mandatory licensing of Toyota's patents.</p><p>Toyota paid money to develop techology, and then TOLD US HOW THEY DID IT on the condition that they'd get control of who makes it for 15 years.  Good for them.  GM and Ford have done much the same thing, for a boondoggle more patents.  If the private companies cannot find a way to get a profitable margin between their portfolios and Ford -- well, we don't need to disucss that, because it's in the vein of "if Microsoft can't find a way to convince people to upgrade to the next version of Windows."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want everyone to build hybrids or other efficeint cars , you simply CAN NOT allow one company to have a stranglehold on the technology ! Quite right .
As soon as Toyota uses their " mammoth " patent portfolio to keep GM or Ford from making hybrid cars , the government should step in... and institute mandatory licensing of Toyota 's patents.Toyota paid money to develop techology , and then TOLD US HOW THEY DID IT on the condition that they 'd get control of who makes it for 15 years .
Good for them .
GM and Ford have done much the same thing , for a boondoggle more patents .
If the private companies can not find a way to get a profitable margin between their portfolios and Ford -- well , we do n't need to disucss that , because it 's in the vein of " if Microsoft ca n't find a way to convince people to upgrade to the next version of Windows .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want everyone to build hybrids or other efficeint cars, you simply CAN NOT allow one company to have a stranglehold on the technology!Quite right.
As soon as Toyota uses their "mammoth" patent portfolio to keep GM or Ford from making hybrid cars, the government should step in... and institute mandatory licensing of Toyota's patents.Toyota paid money to develop techology, and then TOLD US HOW THEY DID IT on the condition that they'd get control of who makes it for 15 years.
Good for them.
GM and Ford have done much the same thing, for a boondoggle more patents.
If the private companies cannot find a way to get a profitable margin between their portfolios and Ford -- well, we don't need to disucss that, because it's in the vein of "if Microsoft can't find a way to convince people to upgrade to the next version of Windows.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28619399</id>
	<title>Re:I just want a goddamned diesel here in the US</title>
	<author>jabuzz</author>
	<datestamp>1247050500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bear in mind that the mpg that you are seeing is based on the fact that an Imperial gallon is larger than an US gallon. It is 4.5l for an Imperial gallon to 3.8l for a US gallon. Naturally they get better MPG.</p><p>That said the fuel efficiency of diesel cars in Europe is quite astounding, the Audi A2 was the best but no longer in production. The VW Bluemotion Polo and Gold do around 61mpg (US gallon), which is better than a Prius.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bear in mind that the mpg that you are seeing is based on the fact that an Imperial gallon is larger than an US gallon .
It is 4.5l for an Imperial gallon to 3.8l for a US gallon .
Naturally they get better MPG.That said the fuel efficiency of diesel cars in Europe is quite astounding , the Audi A2 was the best but no longer in production .
The VW Bluemotion Polo and Gold do around 61mpg ( US gallon ) , which is better than a Prius .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bear in mind that the mpg that you are seeing is based on the fact that an Imperial gallon is larger than an US gallon.
It is 4.5l for an Imperial gallon to 3.8l for a US gallon.
Naturally they get better MPG.That said the fuel efficiency of diesel cars in Europe is quite astounding, the Audi A2 was the best but no longer in production.
The VW Bluemotion Polo and Gold do around 61mpg (US gallon), which is better than a Prius.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616841</id>
	<title>it's no secret....</title>
	<author>gandhi\_2</author>
	<datestamp>1246978500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>the prius ad's gush about how the '09 model accounts for a thousand patents alone. my '06 prius said the same stuff. these patents are a source of pride for them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>the prius ad 's gush about how the '09 model accounts for a thousand patents alone .
my '06 prius said the same stuff .
these patents are a source of pride for them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the prius ad's gush about how the '09 model accounts for a thousand patents alone.
my '06 prius said the same stuff.
these patents are a source of pride for them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618117</id>
	<title>More power to 'em</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246990800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>They expended big bucks on the technology over the years when the rest of the automakers were building crap like giant SUVs and Hummers. This is Capitalism 101 at it's finest. You take a risk when the market niche is young, and benefit when the rest of the world catches up.<br>Toyota makes fine automobiles and the American big 3 deserve to go bankrupt for the shit vehicles they have been producing up 'til now.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They expended big bucks on the technology over the years when the rest of the automakers were building crap like giant SUVs and Hummers .
This is Capitalism 101 at it 's finest .
You take a risk when the market niche is young , and benefit when the rest of the world catches up.Toyota makes fine automobiles and the American big 3 deserve to go bankrupt for the shit vehicles they have been producing up 'til now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They expended big bucks on the technology over the years when the rest of the automakers were building crap like giant SUVs and Hummers.
This is Capitalism 101 at it's finest.
You take a risk when the market niche is young, and benefit when the rest of the world catches up.Toyota makes fine automobiles and the American big 3 deserve to go bankrupt for the shit vehicles they have been producing up 'til now.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</id>
	<title>Kudos to them</title>
	<author>Anonymous Cowdog</author>
	<datestamp>1246977960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is exactly what patents *should* be used for: secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product.</p><p>The US auto companies who had a product vision apparently inspired by Country &amp; Western music unfortunately passed on the opportunity, and now they'll have to pay.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is exactly what patents * should * be used for : secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product.The US auto companies who had a product vision apparently inspired by Country &amp; Western music unfortunately passed on the opportunity , and now they 'll have to pay .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is exactly what patents *should* be used for: secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product.The US auto companies who had a product vision apparently inspired by Country &amp; Western music unfortunately passed on the opportunity, and now they'll have to pay.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28627161</id>
	<title>Re:Car makers shouldnt be making these cars anyway</title>
	<author>Spoke</author>
	<datestamp>1247085240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Exactly.  Current parallel hybrids work around conversion losses by:</p><p>1. Using a CVT to keep the engine in the most efficient operating range when it's running.<br>2. Using high efficiency inverters, generators and motors (2nd Gen Prius inverters/generators/motors are 90\% efficient over a very wide operating range).<br>3. Recovering energy any time your foot is off the gas pedal and the car is moving.</p><p>A serial hybrid has the drawback of requiring the motor/batteries capable of producing maximum propulsion power which significant increases their cost.  In today's hybrids maximum load is shared by the engine.</p><p>A serial hybrid makes the most sense when you are planning on using a large battery pack and plugging it in to avoid running the petrol engine in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly .
Current parallel hybrids work around conversion losses by : 1 .
Using a CVT to keep the engine in the most efficient operating range when it 's running.2 .
Using high efficiency inverters , generators and motors ( 2nd Gen Prius inverters/generators/motors are 90 \ % efficient over a very wide operating range ) .3 .
Recovering energy any time your foot is off the gas pedal and the car is moving.A serial hybrid has the drawback of requiring the motor/batteries capable of producing maximum propulsion power which significant increases their cost .
In today 's hybrids maximum load is shared by the engine.A serial hybrid makes the most sense when you are planning on using a large battery pack and plugging it in to avoid running the petrol engine in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly.
Current parallel hybrids work around conversion losses by:1.
Using a CVT to keep the engine in the most efficient operating range when it's running.2.
Using high efficiency inverters, generators and motors (2nd Gen Prius inverters/generators/motors are 90\% efficient over a very wide operating range).3.
Recovering energy any time your foot is off the gas pedal and the car is moving.A serial hybrid has the drawback of requiring the motor/batteries capable of producing maximum propulsion power which significant increases their cost.
In today's hybrids maximum load is shared by the engine.A serial hybrid makes the most sense when you are planning on using a large battery pack and plugging it in to avoid running the petrol engine in the first place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616957</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617521</id>
	<title>I just want a goddamned diesel here in the US</title>
	<author>melted</author>
	<datestamp>1246985520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I went to Toyota's UK site and looked at what's available. Most of the cars there are available with <b>insanely</b> efficient diesel engines, for some cars there's more than one option. And they're more environment friendly, since there's no battery to make and recycle, fuel efficiency is comparable, and the only harmful byproduct is soot, which settles on the ground.</p><p>I would LOVE to buy those cars here in the US. Thing is, they're not available here. My plan is to wait until they are, so if Toyota wants to sell me a car, they better offer a <i>diesel</i> one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I went to Toyota 's UK site and looked at what 's available .
Most of the cars there are available with insanely efficient diesel engines , for some cars there 's more than one option .
And they 're more environment friendly , since there 's no battery to make and recycle , fuel efficiency is comparable , and the only harmful byproduct is soot , which settles on the ground.I would LOVE to buy those cars here in the US .
Thing is , they 're not available here .
My plan is to wait until they are , so if Toyota wants to sell me a car , they better offer a diesel one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I went to Toyota's UK site and looked at what's available.
Most of the cars there are available with insanely efficient diesel engines, for some cars there's more than one option.
And they're more environment friendly, since there's no battery to make and recycle, fuel efficiency is comparable, and the only harmful byproduct is soot, which settles on the ground.I would LOVE to buy those cars here in the US.
Thing is, they're not available here.
My plan is to wait until they are, so if Toyota wants to sell me a car, they better offer a diesel one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617053</id>
	<title>The purpose of patents is to prevent progress</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246980840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's a bit of a mess, but at least there are some hybrid cars. As other companies do more of this stuff (like the Volt, the Fusion if it doesn't use the HSD, etc) it will get to the point no one will be able to produce a car without violating patents, so they'll just cross-license everything and things will be the same as they are now.</p></div><p>The purpose of patents is to prevent progress.  It's no longer to permit an inventor to the exclusive use of his art, and perhaps it's never been.  There will never be a mass market electric car because these competing companies would rather prevent the electric car than share the market that destroys the internal combustion engine with another carmaker.
</p><p>Unless we do away with patents.  Then it's a race to market with the cleverest implementation of the newest technology you can get, because that's <i>what sells</i>, and every popular feature becomes common (commons?) in a very short time, requiring car makers to make <i>continuous improvement</i> in order to stay in business.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a bit of a mess , but at least there are some hybrid cars .
As other companies do more of this stuff ( like the Volt , the Fusion if it does n't use the HSD , etc ) it will get to the point no one will be able to produce a car without violating patents , so they 'll just cross-license everything and things will be the same as they are now.The purpose of patents is to prevent progress .
It 's no longer to permit an inventor to the exclusive use of his art , and perhaps it 's never been .
There will never be a mass market electric car because these competing companies would rather prevent the electric car than share the market that destroys the internal combustion engine with another carmaker .
Unless we do away with patents .
Then it 's a race to market with the cleverest implementation of the newest technology you can get , because that 's what sells , and every popular feature becomes common ( commons ?
) in a very short time , requiring car makers to make continuous improvement in order to stay in business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a bit of a mess, but at least there are some hybrid cars.
As other companies do more of this stuff (like the Volt, the Fusion if it doesn't use the HSD, etc) it will get to the point no one will be able to produce a car without violating patents, so they'll just cross-license everything and things will be the same as they are now.The purpose of patents is to prevent progress.
It's no longer to permit an inventor to the exclusive use of his art, and perhaps it's never been.
There will never be a mass market electric car because these competing companies would rather prevent the electric car than share the market that destroys the internal combustion engine with another carmaker.
Unless we do away with patents.
Then it's a race to market with the cleverest implementation of the newest technology you can get, because that's what sells, and every popular feature becomes common (commons?
) in a very short time, requiring car makers to make continuous improvement in order to stay in business.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616849</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617303</id>
	<title>mod 0p</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246983360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">being GAY NIIGERS. Will recall that it a BSD over other</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>being GAY NIIGERS .
Will recall that it a BSD over other [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>being GAY NIIGERS.
Will recall that it a BSD over other [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616753</id>
	<title>anti-patent patent</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246977840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm just about to file for an anti-patent [insert swear of your choice] patent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm just about to file for an anti-patent [ insert swear of your choice ] patent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm just about to file for an anti-patent [insert swear of your choice] patent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28620405</id>
	<title>Re:Prior art?</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1247061240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I could not tell after reading and rereading your comment if you actually understood the difference between a series and parallel hybrid, so here we go: In a <em>parallel</em> hybrid both the electric motor and the whatever-else motor (gasoline, diesel, air, whatever) drive some wheels somewhere. You could have electric to the front wheels, and gasoline to the rear; that would be a parallel hybrid. In a series hybrid, only the electric motor(s) drive the wheels, and the fuel engine (or whatever) is connected only to a generator which can charge the batteries. The electrical energy from the generator can be added to the output from the batteries to provide power for acceleration, but what is relevant is that there is no mechanical connection between engine and road. If the electrical and fuel engines both go into a single transmission which drives the powertrain, it is a parallel hybrid. Every hybrid currently available from a major automaker is a parallel hybrid, though as others have mentioned there are upcoming series vehicles, like the Volt. In most cases, parallel hybrids can only limp home without gasoline, if they'll even do that. However, in most cases parallel hybrids can be driven in any battery condition (so long as they are undamaged) if you refuel them.</p><p>I don't know what "A series car typically has the electric motor inline with the engine to provide boost." means... In cars, boost is what you get from turbocharging... unless you're talking about Knight Rider. A series car by definition does not have the electric motor inline with the engine. AFAIK the only people who ACTUALLY have an electric motor literally in line with the engine is Subaru; I don't know how close they are to production but a year or two ago they demonstrated an Impreza with an automatic trans, and the torque converter replaced with an electric motor. Pretty hot. However, that is a parallel hybrid system...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could not tell after reading and rereading your comment if you actually understood the difference between a series and parallel hybrid , so here we go : In a parallel hybrid both the electric motor and the whatever-else motor ( gasoline , diesel , air , whatever ) drive some wheels somewhere .
You could have electric to the front wheels , and gasoline to the rear ; that would be a parallel hybrid .
In a series hybrid , only the electric motor ( s ) drive the wheels , and the fuel engine ( or whatever ) is connected only to a generator which can charge the batteries .
The electrical energy from the generator can be added to the output from the batteries to provide power for acceleration , but what is relevant is that there is no mechanical connection between engine and road .
If the electrical and fuel engines both go into a single transmission which drives the powertrain , it is a parallel hybrid .
Every hybrid currently available from a major automaker is a parallel hybrid , though as others have mentioned there are upcoming series vehicles , like the Volt .
In most cases , parallel hybrids can only limp home without gasoline , if they 'll even do that .
However , in most cases parallel hybrids can be driven in any battery condition ( so long as they are undamaged ) if you refuel them.I do n't know what " A series car typically has the electric motor inline with the engine to provide boost .
" means... In cars , boost is what you get from turbocharging... unless you 're talking about Knight Rider .
A series car by definition does not have the electric motor inline with the engine .
AFAIK the only people who ACTUALLY have an electric motor literally in line with the engine is Subaru ; I do n't know how close they are to production but a year or two ago they demonstrated an Impreza with an automatic trans , and the torque converter replaced with an electric motor .
Pretty hot .
However , that is a parallel hybrid system.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I could not tell after reading and rereading your comment if you actually understood the difference between a series and parallel hybrid, so here we go: In a parallel hybrid both the electric motor and the whatever-else motor (gasoline, diesel, air, whatever) drive some wheels somewhere.
You could have electric to the front wheels, and gasoline to the rear; that would be a parallel hybrid.
In a series hybrid, only the electric motor(s) drive the wheels, and the fuel engine (or whatever) is connected only to a generator which can charge the batteries.
The electrical energy from the generator can be added to the output from the batteries to provide power for acceleration, but what is relevant is that there is no mechanical connection between engine and road.
If the electrical and fuel engines both go into a single transmission which drives the powertrain, it is a parallel hybrid.
Every hybrid currently available from a major automaker is a parallel hybrid, though as others have mentioned there are upcoming series vehicles, like the Volt.
In most cases, parallel hybrids can only limp home without gasoline, if they'll even do that.
However, in most cases parallel hybrids can be driven in any battery condition (so long as they are undamaged) if you refuel them.I don't know what "A series car typically has the electric motor inline with the engine to provide boost.
" means... In cars, boost is what you get from turbocharging... unless you're talking about Knight Rider.
A series car by definition does not have the electric motor inline with the engine.
AFAIK the only people who ACTUALLY have an electric motor literally in line with the engine is Subaru; I don't know how close they are to production but a year or two ago they demonstrated an Impreza with an automatic trans, and the torque converter replaced with an electric motor.
Pretty hot.
However, that is a parallel hybrid system...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616961</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616909</id>
	<title>Re:Car makers shouldnt be making these cars anyway</title>
	<author>fishbowl</author>
	<datestamp>1246979400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"They SHOULD be making volt-style plugin series hybrids instead of Prius style parallel hybrids that have a direct connection between the gasoline engine and the wheels"</p><p>Well, are you in a position of authority in an auto company's R&amp;D or Engineering division, or not?  If not, with your superior understanding of what the automakers "should" do, why not?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" They SHOULD be making volt-style plugin series hybrids instead of Prius style parallel hybrids that have a direct connection between the gasoline engine and the wheels " Well , are you in a position of authority in an auto company 's R&amp;D or Engineering division , or not ?
If not , with your superior understanding of what the automakers " should " do , why not ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"They SHOULD be making volt-style plugin series hybrids instead of Prius style parallel hybrids that have a direct connection between the gasoline engine and the wheels"Well, are you in a position of authority in an auto company's R&amp;D or Engineering division, or not?
If not, with your superior understanding of what the automakers "should" do, why not?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616795</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616957</id>
	<title>Re:Car makers shouldnt be making these cars anyway</title>
	<author>Pyrion</author>
	<datestamp>1246979940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why? Don't you incur a net loss in efficiency by converting mechanical power to electrical and back to mechanical?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why ?
Do n't you incur a net loss in efficiency by converting mechanical power to electrical and back to mechanical ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why?
Don't you incur a net loss in efficiency by converting mechanical power to electrical and back to mechanical?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616795</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28620267</id>
	<title>The USA should wave the Toyota patents...</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1247060700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Japanese never really respect intellectual property laws unless it benefits them.  They copied everybody elses stuff for decades to drag themselves out of post bombing ruin, and now suddenly they can claim patent king?</p><p>Get real.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Japanese never really respect intellectual property laws unless it benefits them .
They copied everybody elses stuff for decades to drag themselves out of post bombing ruin , and now suddenly they can claim patent king ? Get real .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Japanese never really respect intellectual property laws unless it benefits them.
They copied everybody elses stuff for decades to drag themselves out of post bombing ruin, and now suddenly they can claim patent king?Get real.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28626177</id>
	<title>Re:Kudos to them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247081700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, remember that a big part of the patent "deal" is that the inventor must publicly disclose the invention.  This helps everyone get up to speed quickly and work on improvements.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , remember that a big part of the patent " deal " is that the inventor must publicly disclose the invention .
This helps everyone get up to speed quickly and work on improvements .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, remember that a big part of the patent "deal" is that the inventor must publicly disclose the invention.
This helps everyone get up to speed quickly and work on improvements.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28619815</id>
	<title>Re:Toyota's goal: to protect it's hard work...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247057340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ford did not have to pay, they agreed to cross licence.</p><p>Also the Ford engine is not supplied by Toyota.</p><p>From a previous WSJ article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB107880303676250060.html</p><p>The parents article is as sloppily researched as you'll find</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ford did not have to pay , they agreed to cross licence.Also the Ford engine is not supplied by Toyota.From a previous WSJ article : http : //online.wsj.com/article/SB107880303676250060.htmlThe parents article is as sloppily researched as you 'll find</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ford did not have to pay, they agreed to cross licence.Also the Ford engine is not supplied by Toyota.From a previous WSJ article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB107880303676250060.htmlThe parents article is as sloppily researched as you'll find</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28624077</id>
	<title>oh well</title>
	<author>roc97007</author>
	<datestamp>1247074560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
&gt; Toyota's goal: to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from Toyota
</p><p>
Oh well.  I guess it's back to conventional cars, then.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Toyota 's goal : to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from Toyota Oh well .
I guess it 's back to conventional cars , then .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
&gt; Toyota's goal: to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from Toyota

Oh well.
I guess it's back to conventional cars, then.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28621005</id>
	<title>Re:The purpose of patents is to prevent progress</title>
	<author>Theaetetus</author>
	<datestamp>1247063580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The purpose of patents is to prevent progress.  It's no longer to permit an inventor to the exclusive use of his art, and perhaps it's never been.</p></div><p>It's true... In the past 500 years in which patent statutes existed, no inventions have been made and we've made absolutely no progress in the technological arts. Why, just going back to the 1980s and the State Street decision legalizing business method patents, there has been absolutely no innovation since.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The purpose of patents is to prevent progress .
It 's no longer to permit an inventor to the exclusive use of his art , and perhaps it 's never been.It 's true... In the past 500 years in which patent statutes existed , no inventions have been made and we 've made absolutely no progress in the technological arts .
Why , just going back to the 1980s and the State Street decision legalizing business method patents , there has been absolutely no innovation since .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The purpose of patents is to prevent progress.
It's no longer to permit an inventor to the exclusive use of his art, and perhaps it's never been.It's true... In the past 500 years in which patent statutes existed, no inventions have been made and we've made absolutely no progress in the technological arts.
Why, just going back to the 1980s and the State Street decision legalizing business method patents, there has been absolutely no innovation since.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617053</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618513</id>
	<title>HW patents Good / SW patents Evil</title>
	<author>cockpitcomp</author>
	<datestamp>1246995300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why is it OK for an automotive company to protect it's hard work but evil for a software company to do the same?<br> <br>
No one expects Toyota to give it's cars away for free and live only off the repair work.<br> <br>
Slashdot seems bipolar on the patent issue.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is it OK for an automotive company to protect it 's hard work but evil for a software company to do the same ?
No one expects Toyota to give it 's cars away for free and live only off the repair work .
Slashdot seems bipolar on the patent issue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is it OK for an automotive company to protect it's hard work but evil for a software company to do the same?
No one expects Toyota to give it's cars away for free and live only off the repair work.
Slashdot seems bipolar on the patent issue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616999</id>
	<title>Re:Hybrid cars?</title>
	<author>fractoid</author>
	<datestamp>1246980420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I hope that, like half-Japanese girls, half-Japanese hybrid cars look exotic and very sexy. I'm sick of the science-project or iMac-humped-a-toaster designs that most people seem to put novel drivetrains in.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I hope that , like half-Japanese girls , half-Japanese hybrid cars look exotic and very sexy .
I 'm sick of the science-project or iMac-humped-a-toaster designs that most people seem to put novel drivetrains in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hope that, like half-Japanese girls, half-Japanese hybrid cars look exotic and very sexy.
I'm sick of the science-project or iMac-humped-a-toaster designs that most people seem to put novel drivetrains in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616717</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616717</id>
	<title>Hybrid cars?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246977660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Like half american half japanese? Like they half work and half break down?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Like half american half japanese ?
Like they half work and half break down ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Like half american half japanese?
Like they half work and half break down?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617061</id>
	<title>The Solution is Obvious</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246980900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the Obama bin Laden Administration wants to pass regulations on this, what they need to do is INCLUDE in those regulations a law that invalidates any patents which would prevent any manufacturer from following the regulations. If Ford or GM or whoever goes to build a hybrid car, and Toyota complains of a patent violation - WHAM! Toyota's patent(s) are instantly canceled, retracted, invalidated.</p><p>If you want everyone to build hybrids or other efficeint cars, you simply CAN NOT allow one company to have a stranglehold on the technology! The technology you want everyone to use must be FORCED into the public domain.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the Obama bin Laden Administration wants to pass regulations on this , what they need to do is INCLUDE in those regulations a law that invalidates any patents which would prevent any manufacturer from following the regulations .
If Ford or GM or whoever goes to build a hybrid car , and Toyota complains of a patent violation - WHAM !
Toyota 's patent ( s ) are instantly canceled , retracted , invalidated.If you want everyone to build hybrids or other efficeint cars , you simply CAN NOT allow one company to have a stranglehold on the technology !
The technology you want everyone to use must be FORCED into the public domain .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the Obama bin Laden Administration wants to pass regulations on this, what they need to do is INCLUDE in those regulations a law that invalidates any patents which would prevent any manufacturer from following the regulations.
If Ford or GM or whoever goes to build a hybrid car, and Toyota complains of a patent violation - WHAM!
Toyota's patent(s) are instantly canceled, retracted, invalidated.If you want everyone to build hybrids or other efficeint cars, you simply CAN NOT allow one company to have a stranglehold on the technology!
The technology you want everyone to use must be FORCED into the public domain.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616775</id>
	<title>I, for one,</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246977960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>welcome our new japanese overlords...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>welcome our new japanese overlords.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>welcome our new japanese overlords...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28622365</id>
	<title>Re:The purpose of patents is to prevent progress</title>
	<author>Jimmy\_Slimmy</author>
	<datestamp>1247068440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>Oh my.&nbsp; A post trolling for people who actually know something about patents.&nbsp; And moderated 4, insightful, as well.&nbsp; My, oh my.<br><br>I believe, for the most part, in the purposes of the US Constitution, which says in part:<br><br>"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."<br><br>Now, there are MANY implementation details we can debate, but I challenge your assertion that we should do away with patents.<br><br>That is a bad idea.&nbsp; For society, and for inventors.&nbsp; But, maybe not for you.&nbsp; So, how about some facts to back up your position that we should do away with patents, rather than fix the system that is exploited by fat cats at the expense of society?<br><br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright\_Clause<br><br>Regards,<br><br>James </tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh my.   A post trolling for people who actually know something about patents.   And moderated 4 , insightful , as well.   My , oh my.I believe , for the most part , in the purposes of the US Constitution , which says in part : " To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts , by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries .
" Now , there are MANY implementation details we can debate , but I challenge your assertion that we should do away with patents.That is a bad idea.   For society , and for inventors.   But , maybe not for you.   So , how about some facts to back up your position that we should do away with patents , rather than fix the system that is exploited by fat cats at the expense of society ? http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright \ _ClauseRegards,James</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh my.  A post trolling for people who actually know something about patents.  And moderated 4, insightful, as well.  My, oh my.I believe, for the most part, in the purposes of the US Constitution, which says in part:"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.
"Now, there are MANY implementation details we can debate, but I challenge your assertion that we should do away with patents.That is a bad idea.  For society, and for inventors.  But, maybe not for you.  So, how about some facts to back up your position that we should do away with patents, rather than fix the system that is exploited by fat cats at the expense of society?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright\_ClauseRegards,James </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617053</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28644655</id>
	<title>The solution? PURE ELECTRIC.</title>
	<author>awright69</author>
	<datestamp>1247145720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Tesla is already doing it. Aptera and others soon (hopefully!) will go regional or national with practical, electric-only cars. Battery tech is only going to get better (electron bottles, anyone?) Bypass the "hybrid" patent thicket; do away with dirty, parts-heavy ICEs entirely and just get the maximum well-to-wheel efficiency possible, short of having a Mr. Fusion retrofit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tesla is already doing it .
Aptera and others soon ( hopefully !
) will go regional or national with practical , electric-only cars .
Battery tech is only going to get better ( electron bottles , anyone ?
) Bypass the " hybrid " patent thicket ; do away with dirty , parts-heavy ICEs entirely and just get the maximum well-to-wheel efficiency possible , short of having a Mr. Fusion retrofit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tesla is already doing it.
Aptera and others soon (hopefully!
) will go regional or national with practical, electric-only cars.
Battery tech is only going to get better (electron bottles, anyone?
) Bypass the "hybrid" patent thicket; do away with dirty, parts-heavy ICEs entirely and just get the maximum well-to-wheel efficiency possible, short of having a Mr. Fusion retrofit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28623263</id>
	<title>Re:I just want a goddamned diesel here in the US</title>
	<author>CompMD</author>
	<datestamp>1247071560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why buy a Toyota when American diesel cars are perfectly good?  I miss my Vauxhall Zafira, which is a GM car.  I had the 1.9L CDTi engine and the SRi trim package, 6-speed manual box, sport mode (which was awesome) and comfortably seated 7.  It would get 35-40mpg (US) when loaded up for a European roadtrip.  My friend's Ford Mondeo Ghia TDCI gets 42mpg (US), but a comparable US market Ford Fusion with a less powerful engine, fewer features, and lighter empty weight gets only 28mpg.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why buy a Toyota when American diesel cars are perfectly good ?
I miss my Vauxhall Zafira , which is a GM car .
I had the 1.9L CDTi engine and the SRi trim package , 6-speed manual box , sport mode ( which was awesome ) and comfortably seated 7 .
It would get 35-40mpg ( US ) when loaded up for a European roadtrip .
My friend 's Ford Mondeo Ghia TDCI gets 42mpg ( US ) , but a comparable US market Ford Fusion with a less powerful engine , fewer features , and lighter empty weight gets only 28mpg .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why buy a Toyota when American diesel cars are perfectly good?
I miss my Vauxhall Zafira, which is a GM car.
I had the 1.9L CDTi engine and the SRi trim package, 6-speed manual box, sport mode (which was awesome) and comfortably seated 7.
It would get 35-40mpg (US) when loaded up for a European roadtrip.
My friend's Ford Mondeo Ghia TDCI gets 42mpg (US), but a comparable US market Ford Fusion with a less powerful engine, fewer features, and lighter empty weight gets only 28mpg.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617177</id>
	<title>Re:The Solution is Obvious</title>
	<author>gandhi\_2</author>
	<datestamp>1246982100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So what did Toyota do that prevents competitors from innovating something better?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So what did Toyota do that prevents competitors from innovating something better ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what did Toyota do that prevents competitors from innovating something better?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28625089</id>
	<title>Re:Toyota's too late to fully capitalize on that</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247077980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As the summary claimed:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Toyota's goal: to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from Toyota</p></div><p>I would like to introduce to you <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2009-02-05-2010-ford-fusion-hybrid\_N.htm" title="usatoday.com" rel="nofollow">the Ford Fusion Hybrid</a> [usatoday.com], which has been rated above the Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima hybrids in numerous reviews.</p><p>And while Nissan did license Toyota's hybrid technology, Ford did not.  The Ford Fusion Hybrid is the first automotive hybrid drive train to be developed in the US, by a US auto company, and built in North America for an American car.  So if Toyota is trying to preemptively squash competition with their patents, they are too late.</p></div><p>You should point out that "built in North America" with regards to the Ford Fusion means "Mexico."  (Specifically Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico).  They're not being built "in America" nor "by Americans."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As the summary claimed : Toyota 's goal : to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from ToyotaI would like to introduce to you the Ford Fusion Hybrid [ usatoday.com ] , which has been rated above the Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima hybrids in numerous reviews.And while Nissan did license Toyota 's hybrid technology , Ford did not .
The Ford Fusion Hybrid is the first automotive hybrid drive train to be developed in the US , by a US auto company , and built in North America for an American car .
So if Toyota is trying to preemptively squash competition with their patents , they are too late.You should point out that " built in North America " with regards to the Ford Fusion means " Mexico .
" ( Specifically Hermosillo , Sonora , Mexico ) .
They 're not being built " in America " nor " by Americans .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As the summary claimed:Toyota's goal: to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from ToyotaI would like to introduce to you the Ford Fusion Hybrid [usatoday.com], which has been rated above the Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima hybrids in numerous reviews.And while Nissan did license Toyota's hybrid technology, Ford did not.
The Ford Fusion Hybrid is the first automotive hybrid drive train to be developed in the US, by a US auto company, and built in North America for an American car.
So if Toyota is trying to preemptively squash competition with their patents, they are too late.You should point out that "built in North America" with regards to the Ford Fusion means "Mexico.
"  (Specifically Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico).
They're not being built "in America" nor "by Americans.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617431</id>
	<title>More than a decade ago...</title>
	<author>PinchDuck</author>
	<datestamp>1246984620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So Toyota is just supposed to let a decade of R&amp;D go out the window? I hate software patents as much as the next person, but Toyota had to invent physical items from scratch in anticipation of high gas prices. They were way ahead of the curve and deserve to be compensated by having their inventions protected for a period of time so they can recoup their costs and make a profit. You want to have a state-of-the-art hybrid? Buy a prius.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So Toyota is just supposed to let a decade of R&amp;D go out the window ?
I hate software patents as much as the next person , but Toyota had to invent physical items from scratch in anticipation of high gas prices .
They were way ahead of the curve and deserve to be compensated by having their inventions protected for a period of time so they can recoup their costs and make a profit .
You want to have a state-of-the-art hybrid ?
Buy a prius .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So Toyota is just supposed to let a decade of R&amp;D go out the window?
I hate software patents as much as the next person, but Toyota had to invent physical items from scratch in anticipation of high gas prices.
They were way ahead of the curve and deserve to be compensated by having their inventions protected for a period of time so they can recoup their costs and make a profit.
You want to have a state-of-the-art hybrid?
Buy a prius.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617153</id>
	<title>Re:Hybrid cars?</title>
	<author>pushing-robot</author>
	<datestamp>1246981860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>half-Japanese girls, half-Japanese hybrid cars</p></div><p> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe\_anthropomorphism#Vehicles" title="wikipedia.org">Stop giving them ideas!</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>half-Japanese girls , half-Japanese hybrid cars Stop giving them ideas !
[ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>half-Japanese girls, half-Japanese hybrid cars Stop giving them ideas!
[wikipedia.org]
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616999</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618221</id>
	<title>Ford's story is completely different than Nissan's</title>
	<author>Anonymous Freak</author>
	<datestamp>1246992120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From everything I've read, Ford independently developed their hybrid technology, then discovered that it was close enough to Toyota's that they had to license Toyota's patents.</p><p>Nissan, on the other hand, is using Toyota technology itself, purchased directly from Toyota, the only major difference being that the gasoline engine part is a Nissan engine as opposed to a Toyota.  The electrical bits are 100\% Toyota.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From everything I 've read , Ford independently developed their hybrid technology , then discovered that it was close enough to Toyota 's that they had to license Toyota 's patents.Nissan , on the other hand , is using Toyota technology itself , purchased directly from Toyota , the only major difference being that the gasoline engine part is a Nissan engine as opposed to a Toyota .
The electrical bits are 100 \ % Toyota .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From everything I've read, Ford independently developed their hybrid technology, then discovered that it was close enough to Toyota's that they had to license Toyota's patents.Nissan, on the other hand, is using Toyota technology itself, purchased directly from Toyota, the only major difference being that the gasoline engine part is a Nissan engine as opposed to a Toyota.
The electrical bits are 100\% Toyota.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28619591</id>
	<title>Those Patents Dont Mean SH\%T</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247054220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those patents are meaningless on China and many other countries. All they will do is damage the US auto industry which from what I can see is already in steep decline.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those patents are meaningless on China and many other countries .
All they will do is damage the US auto industry which from what I can see is already in steep decline .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those patents are meaningless on China and many other countries.
All they will do is damage the US auto industry which from what I can see is already in steep decline.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616939</id>
	<title>I am with Linus on this one.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246979700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am with Linus on this one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am with Linus on this one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am with Linus on this one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618087</id>
	<title>I Said God Damn!</title>
	<author>peipas</author>
	<datestamp>1246990380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.rhapsody.com/weezer/pinkerton/el-scorcho/lyrics.html" title="rhapsody.com">El Scorcho!</a> [rhapsody.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>El Scorcho !
[ rhapsody.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>El Scorcho!
[rhapsody.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616999</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28622441</id>
	<title>Re:Prior art?</title>
	<author>SirTicksAlot</author>
	<datestamp>1247068680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think it is well explained here:
<br>
<a href="http://www.alternatepropulsion.com/index.php?page=11" title="alternatepropulsion.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.alternatepropulsion.com/index.php?page=11</a> [alternatepropulsion.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it is well explained here : http : //www.alternatepropulsion.com/index.php ? page = 11 [ alternatepropulsion.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it is well explained here:

http://www.alternatepropulsion.com/index.php?page=11 [alternatepropulsion.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616961</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616929</id>
	<title>Re:Kudos to them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246979580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"This is exactly what patents *should* be used for: secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product."</p><p>Using them as a weapon against your competition who *laughed at you* all the way into *bankruptcy* is just a bonus, a coup de grace.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" This is exactly what patents * should * be used for : secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product .
" Using them as a weapon against your competition who * laughed at you * all the way into * bankruptcy * is just a bonus , a coup de grace .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"This is exactly what patents *should* be used for: secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product.
"Using them as a weapon against your competition who *laughed at you* all the way into *bankruptcy* is just a bonus, a coup de grace.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617337</id>
	<title>Re:Toyota's goal: to protect it's hard work...</title>
	<author>drkwatr</author>
	<datestamp>1246983720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have seen that complicated mess. I wouldn't want my engineering team's mark on it. Yuck! You will probably say well can you do better. Well yes I did, but that is beside the point. Problem is that nasty ICE once you let it go away suddenly a more beautiful design can happen. All those man years wasted on trying to make a system work that is so ancient. Just remember one thing no matter how much you polish a turd it is still sh**. Of course someone may want to tell all those working on electrics that battery isn't the way to go you will need about 50+ years for its storage capacity to make it feasible. At that rate you will probably be fighting the so called 'hydrogen' economy. Anyways some of us have some real engineering to do.  In the words of Seinfeld, "Good luck with all of that." lol</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have seen that complicated mess .
I would n't want my engineering team 's mark on it .
Yuck ! You will probably say well can you do better .
Well yes I did , but that is beside the point .
Problem is that nasty ICE once you let it go away suddenly a more beautiful design can happen .
All those man years wasted on trying to make a system work that is so ancient .
Just remember one thing no matter how much you polish a turd it is still sh * * .
Of course someone may want to tell all those working on electrics that battery is n't the way to go you will need about 50 + years for its storage capacity to make it feasible .
At that rate you will probably be fighting the so called 'hydrogen ' economy .
Anyways some of us have some real engineering to do .
In the words of Seinfeld , " Good luck with all of that .
" lol</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have seen that complicated mess.
I wouldn't want my engineering team's mark on it.
Yuck! You will probably say well can you do better.
Well yes I did, but that is beside the point.
Problem is that nasty ICE once you let it go away suddenly a more beautiful design can happen.
All those man years wasted on trying to make a system work that is so ancient.
Just remember one thing no matter how much you polish a turd it is still sh**.
Of course someone may want to tell all those working on electrics that battery isn't the way to go you will need about 50+ years for its storage capacity to make it feasible.
At that rate you will probably be fighting the so called 'hydrogen' economy.
Anyways some of us have some real engineering to do.
In the words of Seinfeld, "Good luck with all of that.
" lol</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616839</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28619779</id>
	<title>(Sarcasm) Go U.S. Patent System!!!</title>
	<author>Yfrwlf</author>
	<datestamp>1247057160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Now the U.S. can push back efforts in being "green" for another 20 years!  Aren't patents lovely?  I bet anyone my life's savings that without patents, Toyota would not have produced the Prius.  Not because they wouldn't have had any motivation to, because motivation will still very much be there due to the fact consumers need cars (unfortunately), but because full electric cars would have been a reality ~30 years ago.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now the U.S. can push back efforts in being " green " for another 20 years !
Are n't patents lovely ?
I bet anyone my life 's savings that without patents , Toyota would not have produced the Prius .
Not because they would n't have had any motivation to , because motivation will still very much be there due to the fact consumers need cars ( unfortunately ) , but because full electric cars would have been a reality ~ 30 years ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now the U.S. can push back efforts in being "green" for another 20 years!
Aren't patents lovely?
I bet anyone my life's savings that without patents, Toyota would not have produced the Prius.
Not because they wouldn't have had any motivation to, because motivation will still very much be there due to the fact consumers need cars (unfortunately), but because full electric cars would have been a reality ~30 years ago.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28627451</id>
	<title>World of Wiff-craft</title>
	<author>Impy the Impiuos Imp</author>
	<datestamp>1247086380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Toyota's goal is not to become rich because the public demands these cars, making it worthwhile for Ford &amp; Co. to rent the patents, but rather to get in the way for impending US legislation that requires auto makers selling into the US to have this or that fuel efficiency standard, or this many or percent of alternative fuel vehicles sold.</p><p>It's the opposite of what patents help with: driving innovation <b>to spur economic growth</b>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Toyota 's goal is not to become rich because the public demands these cars , making it worthwhile for Ford &amp; Co. to rent the patents , but rather to get in the way for impending US legislation that requires auto makers selling into the US to have this or that fuel efficiency standard , or this many or percent of alternative fuel vehicles sold.It 's the opposite of what patents help with : driving innovation to spur economic growth .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Toyota's goal is not to become rich because the public demands these cars, making it worthwhile for Ford &amp; Co. to rent the patents, but rather to get in the way for impending US legislation that requires auto makers selling into the US to have this or that fuel efficiency standard, or this many or percent of alternative fuel vehicles sold.It's the opposite of what patents help with: driving innovation to spur economic growth.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616795</id>
	<title>Car makers shouldnt be making these cars anyway</title>
	<author>jonwil</author>
	<datestamp>1246978140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They SHOULD be making volt-style plugin series hybrids instead of Prius style parallel hybrids that have a direct connection between the gasoline engine and the wheels</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They SHOULD be making volt-style plugin series hybrids instead of Prius style parallel hybrids that have a direct connection between the gasoline engine and the wheels</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They SHOULD be making volt-style plugin series hybrids instead of Prius style parallel hybrids that have a direct connection between the gasoline engine and the wheels</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617003</id>
	<title>Re:Kudos to them</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246980480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>This is exactly what patents *should* be used for: secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product.</p></div></blockquote><p>Bullshit. This is showing how patents can be used to be retard innovation &amp; prevent the spread of technology. If society wants the benefits of creativity and innovation, then it should figure out a system to pay for that kind of stuff up front - not allow private individuals and organizations the power to stop their competitors from doing their own development.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is exactly what patents * should * be used for : secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product.Bullshit .
This is showing how patents can be used to be retard innovation &amp; prevent the spread of technology .
If society wants the benefits of creativity and innovation , then it should figure out a system to pay for that kind of stuff up front - not allow private individuals and organizations the power to stop their competitors from doing their own development .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is exactly what patents *should* be used for: secure rewards for innovators who take the risk of bringing out a future-leading product.Bullshit.
This is showing how patents can be used to be retard innovation &amp; prevent the spread of technology.
If society wants the benefits of creativity and innovation, then it should figure out a system to pay for that kind of stuff up front - not allow private individuals and organizations the power to stop their competitors from doing their own development.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28621827</id>
	<title>Re:June 1994 -- Le Mans and Chrysler's hybrid</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247066520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, take note of the date on the referenced article: 1994. Chrysler was investing serious effort on hybrids 15 years ago! So what happened?</p><p>Well, what happened was that Chrysler was taken over by Daimler-Benz in 1998. Any advanced engineering projects were canceled by Daimler-Benz as redundant efforts to engineering being done in Germany. In addition, Daimler-Benz killed off a lot of smaller fuel-efficient Chrysler car lines to reduce competition for German-made small cars. Large SUV's and trucks that had no equivalent made in Germany were all they allowed the US auto plants to make.</p><p>Nine years later (2007), Daimler-Benz bailed out, the economic crunch hit and Chrysler took the fall. When is the US going to quit selling off its economic future to foreign vultures?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , take note of the date on the referenced article : 1994 .
Chrysler was investing serious effort on hybrids 15 years ago !
So what happened ? Well , what happened was that Chrysler was taken over by Daimler-Benz in 1998 .
Any advanced engineering projects were canceled by Daimler-Benz as redundant efforts to engineering being done in Germany .
In addition , Daimler-Benz killed off a lot of smaller fuel-efficient Chrysler car lines to reduce competition for German-made small cars .
Large SUV 's and trucks that had no equivalent made in Germany were all they allowed the US auto plants to make.Nine years later ( 2007 ) , Daimler-Benz bailed out , the economic crunch hit and Chrysler took the fall .
When is the US going to quit selling off its economic future to foreign vultures ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, take note of the date on the referenced article: 1994.
Chrysler was investing serious effort on hybrids 15 years ago!
So what happened?Well, what happened was that Chrysler was taken over by Daimler-Benz in 1998.
Any advanced engineering projects were canceled by Daimler-Benz as redundant efforts to engineering being done in Germany.
In addition, Daimler-Benz killed off a lot of smaller fuel-efficient Chrysler car lines to reduce competition for German-made small cars.
Large SUV's and trucks that had no equivalent made in Germany were all they allowed the US auto plants to make.Nine years later (2007), Daimler-Benz bailed out, the economic crunch hit and Chrysler took the fall.
When is the US going to quit selling off its economic future to foreign vultures?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617021</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616763</id>
	<title>Prior art?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246977840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't really keep up with the whole hybrid gig, but isn't it basically the same as locomotives and mining haul trucks?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't really keep up with the whole hybrid gig , but is n't it basically the same as locomotives and mining haul trucks ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't really keep up with the whole hybrid gig, but isn't it basically the same as locomotives and mining haul trucks?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28621587</id>
	<title>Re:The purpose of patents is to prevent progress</title>
	<author>mcgrew</author>
	<datestamp>1247065620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you're confusing patents with copyrights. Patents expire, copyrights don't. This tech will be in the public domain in less than twenty years, while you still have to pay royalties for <i>Happy Birthday</i>.</p><p>If copyrights were like patents, over 90\% of all books, mobies, and music would be in the public domain, where the founding fathers intended it to be.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you 're confusing patents with copyrights .
Patents expire , copyrights do n't .
This tech will be in the public domain in less than twenty years , while you still have to pay royalties for Happy Birthday.If copyrights were like patents , over 90 \ % of all books , mobies , and music would be in the public domain , where the founding fathers intended it to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you're confusing patents with copyrights.
Patents expire, copyrights don't.
This tech will be in the public domain in less than twenty years, while you still have to pay royalties for Happy Birthday.If copyrights were like patents, over 90\% of all books, mobies, and music would be in the public domain, where the founding fathers intended it to be.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617053</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28650837</id>
	<title>Re:Defensive not offensive.</title>
	<author>hazydave</author>
	<datestamp>1247244720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That was kind of how IBM did it, at least in the 1980s. They had thousands of patents, but you only had to pay for three-or-more... if you could prove that first stack of 25 didn't apply, they'd hit you with the next, and so on. Their main point was cross-licensing.. they were such a big target, they really didn't want anyone owning a technology they just couldn't use without worrying about it.</p><p>And sure, they had some HORRIBLE patents.. they had this office (probably still do) down in Boca Raton, Florida, full of lawyers. Evil, evil lawyers. Their goal wasn't to patent IBM inventions... their goal was to game the patent system to produce as many patents as frickin' possible... and anyone who's looked at the history of our patent system may well note that, while the patent office was granting software patents out the wazoo back in the mid-1990s, they had yet to hire their first examiner with software experience. I was working for Commodore at the time, and got to hang out with a bunch of our lawyers as the Expert.. if they had a question, they'd whisper or write something, I'd do likewise, and I otherwise had to sit there and hope my head didn't explode.</p><p>One example.... in 1984, they applied for and were granted a patent on cut and paste between text buffers in a wordprocessor. They showed us how we violated this by doing this very operation in MicroEmacs, which came bundled in the AmigaOS. Thing was, that very same sequence of keystrokes did the very same thing on the version of Emacs I used at CMU in 1979, which was a CMU-ized version of RMS's Teco Emacs from MIT. But sure, knock one down, and two replace it... they're like the frickin' Hydra.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That was kind of how IBM did it , at least in the 1980s .
They had thousands of patents , but you only had to pay for three-or-more... if you could prove that first stack of 25 did n't apply , they 'd hit you with the next , and so on .
Their main point was cross-licensing.. they were such a big target , they really did n't want anyone owning a technology they just could n't use without worrying about it.And sure , they had some HORRIBLE patents.. they had this office ( probably still do ) down in Boca Raton , Florida , full of lawyers .
Evil , evil lawyers .
Their goal was n't to patent IBM inventions... their goal was to game the patent system to produce as many patents as frickin ' possible... and anyone who 's looked at the history of our patent system may well note that , while the patent office was granting software patents out the wazoo back in the mid-1990s , they had yet to hire their first examiner with software experience .
I was working for Commodore at the time , and got to hang out with a bunch of our lawyers as the Expert.. if they had a question , they 'd whisper or write something , I 'd do likewise , and I otherwise had to sit there and hope my head did n't explode.One example.... in 1984 , they applied for and were granted a patent on cut and paste between text buffers in a wordprocessor .
They showed us how we violated this by doing this very operation in MicroEmacs , which came bundled in the AmigaOS .
Thing was , that very same sequence of keystrokes did the very same thing on the version of Emacs I used at CMU in 1979 , which was a CMU-ized version of RMS 's Teco Emacs from MIT .
But sure , knock one down , and two replace it... they 're like the frickin ' Hydra .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That was kind of how IBM did it, at least in the 1980s.
They had thousands of patents, but you only had to pay for three-or-more... if you could prove that first stack of 25 didn't apply, they'd hit you with the next, and so on.
Their main point was cross-licensing.. they were such a big target, they really didn't want anyone owning a technology they just couldn't use without worrying about it.And sure, they had some HORRIBLE patents.. they had this office (probably still do) down in Boca Raton, Florida, full of lawyers.
Evil, evil lawyers.
Their goal wasn't to patent IBM inventions... their goal was to game the patent system to produce as many patents as frickin' possible... and anyone who's looked at the history of our patent system may well note that, while the patent office was granting software patents out the wazoo back in the mid-1990s, they had yet to hire their first examiner with software experience.
I was working for Commodore at the time, and got to hang out with a bunch of our lawyers as the Expert.. if they had a question, they'd whisper or write something, I'd do likewise, and I otherwise had to sit there and hope my head didn't explode.One example.... in 1984, they applied for and were granted a patent on cut and paste between text buffers in a wordprocessor.
They showed us how we violated this by doing this very operation in MicroEmacs, which came bundled in the AmigaOS.
Thing was, that very same sequence of keystrokes did the very same thing on the version of Emacs I used at CMU in 1979, which was a CMU-ized version of RMS's Teco Emacs from MIT.
But sure, knock one down, and two replace it... they're like the frickin' Hydra.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617305</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616807</id>
	<title>Maybe this is the good kind of patent?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246978200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If patents are supposedly to encourage new technological developments, without knowing the details, it sounds like this might actually be a responsible use.  After all, it gives Toyota a financial incentive to come up with more efficient cars.  And the competition is actually licensing it.   Unlike in the farmaceutical industry, where companies patent publicly-funded findings from NIH research so that they can be the only ones profiting from it.  Or software, where people patent stuff to be able to sue their competitors out of a product space.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If patents are supposedly to encourage new technological developments , without knowing the details , it sounds like this might actually be a responsible use .
After all , it gives Toyota a financial incentive to come up with more efficient cars .
And the competition is actually licensing it .
Unlike in the farmaceutical industry , where companies patent publicly-funded findings from NIH research so that they can be the only ones profiting from it .
Or software , where people patent stuff to be able to sue their competitors out of a product space .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If patents are supposedly to encourage new technological developments, without knowing the details, it sounds like this might actually be a responsible use.
After all, it gives Toyota a financial incentive to come up with more efficient cars.
And the competition is actually licensing it.
Unlike in the farmaceutical industry, where companies patent publicly-funded findings from NIH research so that they can be the only ones profiting from it.
Or software, where people patent stuff to be able to sue their competitors out of a product space.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28620203</id>
	<title>Since when does Japan care...</title>
	<author>Bakkster</author>
	<datestamp>1247060340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since when does Japan care about US Intellectual Property law?  Sorry for sounding so harsh, but part of the reason the American semiconductor industry died is the Japanese companies didn't pay licensing on the patents for RAM.  It's no wonder they could build it cheaper.
</p><p>Even today, I have several friends who design stearing columns for most of the major automakers.  Toyota buys the minimum run of columns, then takes the shipment and reverse engineers it to build them on their own.  No licensing or anything, so my friend's company just barely breaks even (the minimum order is just enough to cover the engineering costs).
</p><p>So now they're going to use the system that they ignore because they'll make money off of it?  Fuck. That. Shit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since when does Japan care about US Intellectual Property law ?
Sorry for sounding so harsh , but part of the reason the American semiconductor industry died is the Japanese companies did n't pay licensing on the patents for RAM .
It 's no wonder they could build it cheaper .
Even today , I have several friends who design stearing columns for most of the major automakers .
Toyota buys the minimum run of columns , then takes the shipment and reverse engineers it to build them on their own .
No licensing or anything , so my friend 's company just barely breaks even ( the minimum order is just enough to cover the engineering costs ) .
So now they 're going to use the system that they ignore because they 'll make money off of it ?
Fuck. That .
Shit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since when does Japan care about US Intellectual Property law?
Sorry for sounding so harsh, but part of the reason the American semiconductor industry died is the Japanese companies didn't pay licensing on the patents for RAM.
It's no wonder they could build it cheaper.
Even today, I have several friends who design stearing columns for most of the major automakers.
Toyota buys the minimum run of columns, then takes the shipment and reverse engineers it to build them on their own.
No licensing or anything, so my friend's company just barely breaks even (the minimum order is just enough to cover the engineering costs).
So now they're going to use the system that they ignore because they'll make money off of it?
Fuck. That.
Shit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28626987</id>
	<title>Re:Toyota's too late to fully capitalize on that</title>
	<author>Spoke</author>
	<datestamp>1247084580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Also, mileage in particular is noted as mediocre for a hybrid in this review - and isn't that pretty much the defining characteristic for any hybrid?</p></div></blockquote><p>Seems like your mileage may vary as with all cars.  With hybrids, it seems to vary a bit more as there were more than a few comments where people are regularly exceeding the EPA numbers.</p><p>Looking at the <a href="http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=26405" title="fueleconomy.gov">customer entered numbers at fueleconomy.gov</a> [fueleconomy.gov] seems to indicate that they aren't alone.</p><p>Know of any other 3700+lb cars that can fairly easily beat 40mpg?  There aren't even that many small cars that can do that!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , mileage in particular is noted as mediocre for a hybrid in this review - and is n't that pretty much the defining characteristic for any hybrid ? Seems like your mileage may vary as with all cars .
With hybrids , it seems to vary a bit more as there were more than a few comments where people are regularly exceeding the EPA numbers.Looking at the customer entered numbers at fueleconomy.gov [ fueleconomy.gov ] seems to indicate that they are n't alone.Know of any other 3700 + lb cars that can fairly easily beat 40mpg ?
There are n't even that many small cars that can do that !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, mileage in particular is noted as mediocre for a hybrid in this review - and isn't that pretty much the defining characteristic for any hybrid?Seems like your mileage may vary as with all cars.
With hybrids, it seems to vary a bit more as there were more than a few comments where people are regularly exceeding the EPA numbers.Looking at the customer entered numbers at fueleconomy.gov [fueleconomy.gov] seems to indicate that they aren't alone.Know of any other 3700+lb cars that can fairly easily beat 40mpg?
There aren't even that many small cars that can do that!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618897</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617443</id>
	<title>Toyota's too late to fully capitalize on that</title>
	<author>damn\_registrars</author>
	<datestamp>1246984740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>As the summary claimed:<p><div class="quote"><p>Toyota's goal: to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from Toyota</p></div><p>
I would like to introduce to you <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2009-02-05-2010-ford-fusion-hybrid\_N.htm" title="usatoday.com">the Ford Fusion Hybrid</a> [usatoday.com], which has been rated above the Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima hybrids in numerous reviews.<br> <br>
And while Nissan did license Toyota's hybrid technology, Ford did not.  The Ford Fusion Hybrid is the first automotive hybrid drive train to be developed in the US, by a US auto company, and built in North America for an American car.  So if Toyota is trying to preemptively squash competition with their patents, they are too late.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As the summary claimed : Toyota 's goal : to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from Toyota I would like to introduce to you the Ford Fusion Hybrid [ usatoday.com ] , which has been rated above the Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima hybrids in numerous reviews .
And while Nissan did license Toyota 's hybrid technology , Ford did not .
The Ford Fusion Hybrid is the first automotive hybrid drive train to be developed in the US , by a US auto company , and built in North America for an American car .
So if Toyota is trying to preemptively squash competition with their patents , they are too late .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As the summary claimed:Toyota's goal: to make it difficult for other auto makers to develop their own hybrids without seeking licensing from Toyota
I would like to introduce to you the Ford Fusion Hybrid [usatoday.com], which has been rated above the Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima hybrids in numerous reviews.
And while Nissan did license Toyota's hybrid technology, Ford did not.
The Ford Fusion Hybrid is the first automotive hybrid drive train to be developed in the US, by a US auto company, and built in North America for an American car.
So if Toyota is trying to preemptively squash competition with their patents, they are too late.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28623415</id>
	<title>Patents for somethings should be thrown out</title>
	<author>ITJC68</author>
	<datestamp>1247072100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is a good example of patent trolling/creation at its worse. The day comes when one company controls this kind of tech is a sad day for Americans. We need fuel efficient cars that drive well. Toyota has been at the forefront with that. It is time the ole American tech gets going creating our own technology for hybrid as well as electric and maybe hydrogen cars. We have to invent or get left behind. In this day and age most automobile companies are now owned in part by the federal government (except Ford at this time). Until we get Uncle Sam out of the car business this is unlikely to happen. Investments in tech is never a top priority with our government. It is always social programs and ripping off the tax payer as well as padding their own pockets. Maybe in this century this will change but it might take a revolution to do it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a good example of patent trolling/creation at its worse .
The day comes when one company controls this kind of tech is a sad day for Americans .
We need fuel efficient cars that drive well .
Toyota has been at the forefront with that .
It is time the ole American tech gets going creating our own technology for hybrid as well as electric and maybe hydrogen cars .
We have to invent or get left behind .
In this day and age most automobile companies are now owned in part by the federal government ( except Ford at this time ) .
Until we get Uncle Sam out of the car business this is unlikely to happen .
Investments in tech is never a top priority with our government .
It is always social programs and ripping off the tax payer as well as padding their own pockets .
Maybe in this century this will change but it might take a revolution to do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a good example of patent trolling/creation at its worse.
The day comes when one company controls this kind of tech is a sad day for Americans.
We need fuel efficient cars that drive well.
Toyota has been at the forefront with that.
It is time the ole American tech gets going creating our own technology for hybrid as well as electric and maybe hydrogen cars.
We have to invent or get left behind.
In this day and age most automobile companies are now owned in part by the federal government (except Ford at this time).
Until we get Uncle Sam out of the car business this is unlikely to happen.
Investments in tech is never a top priority with our government.
It is always social programs and ripping off the tax payer as well as padding their own pockets.
Maybe in this century this will change but it might take a revolution to do it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618267</id>
	<title>hybrids are dead anyway</title>
	<author>jipn4</author>
	<datestamp>1246992900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't see hybrids like the Prius going anywhere.  Serial hybrids and electric cars are the future.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see hybrids like the Prius going anywhere .
Serial hybrids and electric cars are the future .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see hybrids like the Prius going anywhere.
Serial hybrids and electric cars are the future.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28623279</id>
	<title>Sorry Ford told Toyota to stict it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247071620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Facts people facts the WSJ is wrong......</p><p>The basic architecture of both systems is the same and both are based on the concepts developed and patented by TRW engineers in the late 1960s. When Ford introduced the Escape Hybrid, Toyota went after the Blue Oval for infringing on its patents. Ford had patents of its own on the technology that Toyota was using. Eventually, the two companies reached a cross-licensing agreement that gives both companies the right to build their own systems. Such cross-licensing agreements are common in these kinds of cases, but Ford did not use the Toyota hybrid system.</p><p>http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/05/editorial-attention-i-wall-street-journal-i-ford-does-b-n/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Facts people facts the WSJ is wrong......The basic architecture of both systems is the same and both are based on the concepts developed and patented by TRW engineers in the late 1960s .
When Ford introduced the Escape Hybrid , Toyota went after the Blue Oval for infringing on its patents .
Ford had patents of its own on the technology that Toyota was using .
Eventually , the two companies reached a cross-licensing agreement that gives both companies the right to build their own systems .
Such cross-licensing agreements are common in these kinds of cases , but Ford did not use the Toyota hybrid system.http : //www.autoblog.com/2009/07/05/editorial-attention-i-wall-street-journal-i-ford-does-b-n/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Facts people facts the WSJ is wrong......The basic architecture of both systems is the same and both are based on the concepts developed and patented by TRW engineers in the late 1960s.
When Ford introduced the Escape Hybrid, Toyota went after the Blue Oval for infringing on its patents.
Ford had patents of its own on the technology that Toyota was using.
Eventually, the two companies reached a cross-licensing agreement that gives both companies the right to build their own systems.
Such cross-licensing agreements are common in these kinds of cases, but Ford did not use the Toyota hybrid system.http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/05/editorial-attention-i-wall-street-journal-i-ford-does-b-n/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617269</id>
	<title>Re:Car makers shouldnt be making these cars anyway</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246983120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Would you and your fag friends please stop telling us what kind of cars we want, Mkay, thx.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would you and your fag friends please stop telling us what kind of cars we want , Mkay , thx .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would you and your fag friends please stop telling us what kind of cars we want, Mkay, thx.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616795</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28639857</id>
	<title>Re:Kudos to them</title>
	<author>jcasman</author>
	<datestamp>1247167320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd be more excited and more complimentary of Toyota if I thought the hybrid cars they sell changed the equation much. They get a lot of marketing mileage out of hybrids, but their cars still depend completely on gas companies and do little to change driving habits or any useage patterns that contribute to congestion and pollution. They've done just enough to stand out, not a bit more. It's a lot of talk for very little change.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd be more excited and more complimentary of Toyota if I thought the hybrid cars they sell changed the equation much .
They get a lot of marketing mileage out of hybrids , but their cars still depend completely on gas companies and do little to change driving habits or any useage patterns that contribute to congestion and pollution .
They 've done just enough to stand out , not a bit more .
It 's a lot of talk for very little change .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd be more excited and more complimentary of Toyota if I thought the hybrid cars they sell changed the equation much.
They get a lot of marketing mileage out of hybrids, but their cars still depend completely on gas companies and do little to change driving habits or any useage patterns that contribute to congestion and pollution.
They've done just enough to stand out, not a bit more.
It's a lot of talk for very little change.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618443</id>
	<title>Re:I just want a goddamned diesel here in the US</title>
	<author>cockpitcomp</author>
	<datestamp>1246994760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Except that few of the European diesel cars can pass the tough relatively new US emission standards at a price point that competes with gasoline. <br> <br>And some states (CA, NY) prohibit them...<br>
<a href="http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=435228" title="msn.com" rel="nofollow">http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=435228</a> [msn.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that few of the European diesel cars can pass the tough relatively new US emission standards at a price point that competes with gasoline .
And some states ( CA , NY ) prohibit them.. . http : //editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx ? cp-documentid = 435228 [ msn.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that few of the European diesel cars can pass the tough relatively new US emission standards at a price point that competes with gasoline.
And some states (CA, NY) prohibit them...
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=435228 [msn.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617521</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28636151</id>
	<title>Re:Kudos to them</title>
	<author>jawahar</author>
	<datestamp>1247152860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>secure rewards for innovators</p></div></blockquote><p>
secure rewards for <b>inventors</b> is appropriate.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>secure rewards for innovators secure rewards for inventors is appropriate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>secure rewards for innovators
secure rewards for inventors is appropriate.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616777</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617011</id>
	<title>Re:Prior art?</title>
	<author>MichaelSmith</author>
	<datestamp>1246980540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Years ago a co-worker bought a new Toyota GT4. We all trooped down to the car park to admire the engineering and noted that the cylinder head came from Suzuki.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Years ago a co-worker bought a new Toyota GT4 .
We all trooped down to the car park to admire the engineering and noted that the cylinder head came from Suzuki .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Years ago a co-worker bought a new Toyota GT4.
We all trooped down to the car park to admire the engineering and noted that the cylinder head came from Suzuki.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616849</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616849</id>
	<title>Re:Prior art?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246978620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those are series hybrids, which is how the Chevy Volt will work (when the gas engine is engaged). The Prius is a series hybrid as well (it's got a neat but relatively complicated dual electric motor pseudo-CVT system). Other cars, such as the Honda Insight (the old one, don't know about the new) was a parallel hybrid, where the electric motor provided additional torque, but couldn't run the car alone.</p><p>Yeah, it's similar. There are some differences (trains don't generally have to deal with stop-and-go traffic, etc) but the idea isn't too far off.</p><p>I remember reading in Forbes years ago that there was a car company (Ford?) who wanted to make a hybrid. They developed their own system and it performed much worse than the Prius (the first gen in the US). That, combined with the fact their system was so similar to Toyota's they were afraid of lawsuits, led them to license the Toyota Hybrid System (THS), which was later named the Hybrid Synergy Drive (HSD), since the Fords of the world wouldn't want their cars being powered by a <i>Toyota</i> Hybrid System.</p><p>It's a bit of a mess, but at least there are some hybrid cars. As other companies do more of this stuff (like the Volt, the Fusion if it doesn't use the HSD, etc) it will get to the point no one will be able to produce a car without violating patents, so they'll just cross-license everything and things will be the same as they are now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those are series hybrids , which is how the Chevy Volt will work ( when the gas engine is engaged ) .
The Prius is a series hybrid as well ( it 's got a neat but relatively complicated dual electric motor pseudo-CVT system ) .
Other cars , such as the Honda Insight ( the old one , do n't know about the new ) was a parallel hybrid , where the electric motor provided additional torque , but could n't run the car alone.Yeah , it 's similar .
There are some differences ( trains do n't generally have to deal with stop-and-go traffic , etc ) but the idea is n't too far off.I remember reading in Forbes years ago that there was a car company ( Ford ?
) who wanted to make a hybrid .
They developed their own system and it performed much worse than the Prius ( the first gen in the US ) .
That , combined with the fact their system was so similar to Toyota 's they were afraid of lawsuits , led them to license the Toyota Hybrid System ( THS ) , which was later named the Hybrid Synergy Drive ( HSD ) , since the Fords of the world would n't want their cars being powered by a Toyota Hybrid System.It 's a bit of a mess , but at least there are some hybrid cars .
As other companies do more of this stuff ( like the Volt , the Fusion if it does n't use the HSD , etc ) it will get to the point no one will be able to produce a car without violating patents , so they 'll just cross-license everything and things will be the same as they are now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those are series hybrids, which is how the Chevy Volt will work (when the gas engine is engaged).
The Prius is a series hybrid as well (it's got a neat but relatively complicated dual electric motor pseudo-CVT system).
Other cars, such as the Honda Insight (the old one, don't know about the new) was a parallel hybrid, where the electric motor provided additional torque, but couldn't run the car alone.Yeah, it's similar.
There are some differences (trains don't generally have to deal with stop-and-go traffic, etc) but the idea isn't too far off.I remember reading in Forbes years ago that there was a car company (Ford?
) who wanted to make a hybrid.
They developed their own system and it performed much worse than the Prius (the first gen in the US).
That, combined with the fact their system was so similar to Toyota's they were afraid of lawsuits, led them to license the Toyota Hybrid System (THS), which was later named the Hybrid Synergy Drive (HSD), since the Fords of the world wouldn't want their cars being powered by a Toyota Hybrid System.It's a bit of a mess, but at least there are some hybrid cars.
As other companies do more of this stuff (like the Volt, the Fusion if it doesn't use the HSD, etc) it will get to the point no one will be able to produce a car without violating patents, so they'll just cross-license everything and things will be the same as they are now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618897</id>
	<title>Re:Toyota's too late to fully capitalize on that</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1247086260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Reading the review you've linked to, the rating seems entirely subjective. I'll just cite it:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Prius is lower-priced, has about the same room inside, has a handy hatchback configuration, gets better mileage &#226;" and most of those attributes could improve when the 2010 Prius goes on sale in a few months &#226;" so how could Fusion be the best hybrid?</p><p>Simple. <b>Fusion drives better</b>. A car is, after all, a driving machine. Brownie points for saving somewhat more fuel or offering a cargo-friendly hatchback, but <b>driving feel</b> is most important.</p></div><p>Also, mileage in particular is noted as mediocre for a hybrid in this review - and isn't that pretty much the defining characteristic for any hybrid?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Reading the review you 've linked to , the rating seems entirely subjective .
I 'll just cite it : Prius is lower-priced , has about the same room inside , has a handy hatchback configuration , gets better mileage   " and most of those attributes could improve when the 2010 Prius goes on sale in a few months   " so how could Fusion be the best hybrid ? Simple .
Fusion drives better .
A car is , after all , a driving machine .
Brownie points for saving somewhat more fuel or offering a cargo-friendly hatchback , but driving feel is most important.Also , mileage in particular is noted as mediocre for a hybrid in this review - and is n't that pretty much the defining characteristic for any hybrid ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reading the review you've linked to, the rating seems entirely subjective.
I'll just cite it:Prius is lower-priced, has about the same room inside, has a handy hatchback configuration, gets better mileage â" and most of those attributes could improve when the 2010 Prius goes on sale in a few months â" so how could Fusion be the best hybrid?Simple.
Fusion drives better.
A car is, after all, a driving machine.
Brownie points for saving somewhat more fuel or offering a cargo-friendly hatchback, but driving feel is most important.Also, mileage in particular is noted as mediocre for a hybrid in this review - and isn't that pretty much the defining characteristic for any hybrid?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616985</id>
	<title>This one's too damned easy...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246980360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If it's in the best interest of the country, Nationalize the patents...</p><p>There - problem all solved.</p><p>Oddly enough, my anti-bot image was customs... =)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If it 's in the best interest of the country , Nationalize the patents...There - problem all solved.Oddly enough , my anti-bot image was customs... = )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it's in the best interest of the country, Nationalize the patents...There - problem all solved.Oddly enough, my anti-bot image was customs... =)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28620137</id>
	<title>Re:June 1994 -- Le Mans and Chrysler's hybrid</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1247060100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If you think Japanese companies were the only ones working on hybrids, take a look at this article from June 1994:</p></div><p>Chrysler had a turbine-powered car <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler\_Turbine\_Car" title="wikipedia.org">in 1963</a> [wikipedia.org]. Diesel locomotives were already diesel-electric hybrids by that time, yet Chrysler decided to use a transmission in the powertrain. Or in other words, where the fuck are my turbine-hybrid cars? They could have made them <em>in the seventies</em>.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think Japanese companies were the only ones working on hybrids , take a look at this article from June 1994 : Chrysler had a turbine-powered car in 1963 [ wikipedia.org ] .
Diesel locomotives were already diesel-electric hybrids by that time , yet Chrysler decided to use a transmission in the powertrain .
Or in other words , where the fuck are my turbine-hybrid cars ?
They could have made them in the seventies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think Japanese companies were the only ones working on hybrids, take a look at this article from June 1994:Chrysler had a turbine-powered car in 1963 [wikipedia.org].
Diesel locomotives were already diesel-electric hybrids by that time, yet Chrysler decided to use a transmission in the powertrain.
Or in other words, where the fuck are my turbine-hybrid cars?
They could have made them in the seventies.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617021</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616839</id>
	<title>Toyota's goal: to protect it's hard work...</title>
	<author>Maxwell</author>
	<datestamp>1246978500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So it's a fact that Toyota's goal is to prevent any one else from making hybrids without licensing?</p><p>Or maybe their goal is to protect their hard earned IP that they spent ten years working on while the rest of the world laughed at them?</p><p>Good work , Toyota. you deserve those patents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So it 's a fact that Toyota 's goal is to prevent any one else from making hybrids without licensing ? Or maybe their goal is to protect their hard earned IP that they spent ten years working on while the rest of the world laughed at them ? Good work , Toyota .
you deserve those patents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So it's a fact that Toyota's goal is to prevent any one else from making hybrids without licensing?Or maybe their goal is to protect their hard earned IP that they spent ten years working on while the rest of the world laughed at them?Good work , Toyota.
you deserve those patents.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616961</id>
	<title>Re:Prior art?</title>
	<author>AaronW</author>
	<datestamp>1246980000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have the series and parallel confused. A series car typically has the electric motor inline with the engine to provide boost. This is how the original Honda Insight and hybrid Civic work. A parallel hybrid like Toyota's Prius and the Ford Escape can run on any combination of electric and gasoline. It uses a planetary gear assembly with the gasoline engine driving the planets. The sun gear goes to a generator/alternator (that can also be a motor) and the outer ring goes to the wheels and another electric motor.  The CVT is basically just how it shunts power between the two motors. Mechanically it's fairly simple. If the gasoline engine dies it can use the electric motors to power itself. If an electric motor dies the car won't move.</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid\_Synergy\_Drive" title="wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid\_Synergy\_Drive</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have the series and parallel confused .
A series car typically has the electric motor inline with the engine to provide boost .
This is how the original Honda Insight and hybrid Civic work .
A parallel hybrid like Toyota 's Prius and the Ford Escape can run on any combination of electric and gasoline .
It uses a planetary gear assembly with the gasoline engine driving the planets .
The sun gear goes to a generator/alternator ( that can also be a motor ) and the outer ring goes to the wheels and another electric motor .
The CVT is basically just how it shunts power between the two motors .
Mechanically it 's fairly simple .
If the gasoline engine dies it can use the electric motors to power itself .
If an electric motor dies the car wo n't move.http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid \ _Synergy \ _Drive [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have the series and parallel confused.
A series car typically has the electric motor inline with the engine to provide boost.
This is how the original Honda Insight and hybrid Civic work.
A parallel hybrid like Toyota's Prius and the Ford Escape can run on any combination of electric and gasoline.
It uses a planetary gear assembly with the gasoline engine driving the planets.
The sun gear goes to a generator/alternator (that can also be a motor) and the outer ring goes to the wheels and another electric motor.
The CVT is basically just how it shunts power between the two motors.
Mechanically it's fairly simple.
If the gasoline engine dies it can use the electric motors to power itself.
If an electric motor dies the car won't move.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid\_Synergy\_Drive [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616849</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617137</id>
	<title>Re:The Solution is Obvious</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246981740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or he can allow the patents and release the truth about hybrid cars and how they damage the enviroment more then most cars due to their production.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or he can allow the patents and release the truth about hybrid cars and how they damage the enviroment more then most cars due to their production .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or he can allow the patents and release the truth about hybrid cars and how they damage the enviroment more then most cars due to their production.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617061</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28626225</id>
	<title>Prior art?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1247081880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Certainly between Edison and Tesla, there's so much prior art and patents that this is Toyota making layers rich for no real purpose?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Certainly between Edison and Tesla , there 's so much prior art and patents that this is Toyota making layers rich for no real purpose ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Certainly between Edison and Tesla, there's so much prior art and patents that this is Toyota making layers rich for no real purpose?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617749</id>
	<title>Re:Car makers shouldnt be making these cars anyway</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246987020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Why? Don't you incur a net loss in efficiency by converting mechanical power to electrical and back to mechanical?</i></p><p>Yes, but not much. Electric motors &amp; generators are very efficient (95\% plus is easy). Plus you don't need a transmission/clutch/gears, and your internal combustion engine can always run at optimal rpm.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why ?
Do n't you incur a net loss in efficiency by converting mechanical power to electrical and back to mechanical ? Yes , but not much .
Electric motors &amp; generators are very efficient ( 95 \ % plus is easy ) .
Plus you do n't need a transmission/clutch/gears , and your internal combustion engine can always run at optimal rpm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why?
Don't you incur a net loss in efficiency by converting mechanical power to electrical and back to mechanical?Yes, but not much.
Electric motors &amp; generators are very efficient (95\% plus is easy).
Plus you don't need a transmission/clutch/gears, and your internal combustion engine can always run at optimal rpm.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616957</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618835</id>
	<title>Re:The purpose of patents is to prevent progress</title>
	<author>JAlexoi</author>
	<datestamp>1247085660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>No. Software and process patents are there to prevent progress. Engineering patents have a very nice effect, of other engineers being informed about the technology behind the patent. In software it's the combination of copyright and patents that is the killer of innovation. As a reverse car analogy, it's like you patenting some process but releasing the source code under GPL for the solution.</htmltext>
<tokenext>No .
Software and process patents are there to prevent progress .
Engineering patents have a very nice effect , of other engineers being informed about the technology behind the patent .
In software it 's the combination of copyright and patents that is the killer of innovation .
As a reverse car analogy , it 's like you patenting some process but releasing the source code under GPL for the solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.
Software and process patents are there to prevent progress.
Engineering patents have a very nice effect, of other engineers being informed about the technology behind the patent.
In software it's the combination of copyright and patents that is the killer of innovation.
As a reverse car analogy, it's like you patenting some process but releasing the source code under GPL for the solution.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617053</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616869</id>
	<title>Re:Prior art?</title>
	<author>Maxwell</author>
	<datestamp>1246978920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No, the prius is a paralell hybrid with electrical and fuel storage. The gas engine can drive the wheels directly. The electric motor can also drive the wheels directly without the gas engine running.</p><p>Locomotives wheels are only driven by electric motors, and the electricity comes from the gas engine. There is no direct connection between diesel and wheels. There is also almost no electric storage between diesel and electric motors, so if the diesel engine stops, the electric motors stop.</p><p>The prius real advance is the ability to manage and smoothly use whatever power source is best suited at any time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No , the prius is a paralell hybrid with electrical and fuel storage .
The gas engine can drive the wheels directly .
The electric motor can also drive the wheels directly without the gas engine running.Locomotives wheels are only driven by electric motors , and the electricity comes from the gas engine .
There is no direct connection between diesel and wheels .
There is also almost no electric storage between diesel and electric motors , so if the diesel engine stops , the electric motors stop.The prius real advance is the ability to manage and smoothly use whatever power source is best suited at any time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No, the prius is a paralell hybrid with electrical and fuel storage.
The gas engine can drive the wheels directly.
The electric motor can also drive the wheels directly without the gas engine running.Locomotives wheels are only driven by electric motors, and the electricity comes from the gas engine.
There is no direct connection between diesel and wheels.
There is also almost no electric storage between diesel and electric motors, so if the diesel engine stops, the electric motors stop.The prius real advance is the ability to manage and smoothly use whatever power source is best suited at any time.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616763</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_07_237224_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28622365
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617053
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616849
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616763
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_07_07_237224_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618443
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617521
</commentlist>
</thread>
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28636151
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617003
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28753225
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616929
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617765
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28626177
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28620203
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618117
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618277
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617083
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617305
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28650837
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617443
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618897
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28626987
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28625089
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616839
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617337
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617057
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28619815
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617505
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28631379
</commentlist>
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616775
</commentlist>
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616763
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616849
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28629281
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617011
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617053
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618835
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28622365
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28621587
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28621005
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616961
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28629403
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28620405
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28622441
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616869
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616749
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616841
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28619591
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28619943
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617229
</commentlist>
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618513
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28617521
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28623263
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28627089
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28626647
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618443
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28619399
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28618545
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_07_237224.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_07_237224.28616753
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