<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_06_2215218</id>
	<title>Social Security Numbers Can Be Guessed</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1246878840000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://botscout.com/" rel="nofollow">BotScout</a> writes <i>"The nation's Social Security numbering scheme has <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/06/AR2009070602955.html?hpid=topnews">left millions of citizens vulnerable to privacy breaches</a>, according to researchers at Carnegie Mellon University, who for the first time have used statistical techniques to predict Social Security numbers solely from an individual's date and location of birth. The researchers used the information they gleaned to predict, <em>in one try</em>, the first five digits of a person's Social Security number <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&amp;sid=aKbjO.Ew4S2E">44 percent of the time for 160,000 people born between 1989 and 2003</a>. A Social Security Administration spokesman said the government has long cautioned the private sector against using a social security number as a personal identifier, even as it insists 'there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person's Social Security Number.'"</i> <b>Update: 07/07 00:01 GMT</b> by <b> <a href="http://www.monkey.org/~timothy/">T</a> </b>: Reader angrytuna links to <a href="http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/07/predictingssn/">Wired's coverage</a> of the SSN deduction system, and links to the <a href="http://www.heinz.cmu.edu/~acquisti/ssnstudy/">researchers' FAQ at Carnegie Mellon</a>, which says that the research paper will be presented at BlackHat Las Vegas later this month.</htmltext>
<tokenext>BotScout writes " The nation 's Social Security numbering scheme has left millions of citizens vulnerable to privacy breaches , according to researchers at Carnegie Mellon University , who for the first time have used statistical techniques to predict Social Security numbers solely from an individual 's date and location of birth .
The researchers used the information they gleaned to predict , in one try , the first five digits of a person 's Social Security number 44 percent of the time for 160,000 people born between 1989 and 2003 .
A Social Security Administration spokesman said the government has long cautioned the private sector against using a social security number as a personal identifier , even as it insists 'there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person 's Social Security Number .
' " Update : 07/07 00 : 01 GMT by T : Reader angrytuna links to Wired 's coverage of the SSN deduction system , and links to the researchers ' FAQ at Carnegie Mellon , which says that the research paper will be presented at BlackHat Las Vegas later this month .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BotScout writes "The nation's Social Security numbering scheme has left millions of citizens vulnerable to privacy breaches, according to researchers at Carnegie Mellon University, who for the first time have used statistical techniques to predict Social Security numbers solely from an individual's date and location of birth.
The researchers used the information they gleaned to predict, in one try, the first five digits of a person's Social Security number 44 percent of the time for 160,000 people born between 1989 and 2003.
A Social Security Administration spokesman said the government has long cautioned the private sector against using a social security number as a personal identifier, even as it insists 'there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person's Social Security Number.
'" Update: 07/07 00:01 GMT by  T : Reader angrytuna links to Wired's coverage of the SSN deduction system, and links to the researchers' FAQ at Carnegie Mellon, which says that the research paper will be presented at BlackHat Las Vegas later this month.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601283</id>
	<title>I'm safe!</title>
	<author>g1zmo</author>
	<datestamp>1246882800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's a good thing they only use the last four digits for identification at my school.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a good thing they only use the last four digits for identification at my school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a good thing they only use the last four digits for identification at my school.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602001</id>
	<title>Same other places too....</title>
	<author>MortenMW</author>
	<datestamp>1246886520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its the same problem in Norway. The person-numbers (Norwegian SSN's) are built this way:<br>
DD MM YY III CC</p><p>The three first groups are your date of birth (which is found in all public records).</p><p>The next group (III) are individual numbers ranging from 000 to 999. If you are born before 2000 it is under 500, if your born after it is over. If you are male it is a odd number and even for girls. So if you know the date of birth and a persons gender there are 250~ possible numbers.</p><p>The last group are control digits used to calculate a valid person-number.</p><p>Most (if not all) banks and other important thing use the numbers as both identification and authentication...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its the same problem in Norway .
The person-numbers ( Norwegian SSN 's ) are built this way : DD MM YY III CCThe three first groups are your date of birth ( which is found in all public records ) .The next group ( III ) are individual numbers ranging from 000 to 999 .
If you are born before 2000 it is under 500 , if your born after it is over .
If you are male it is a odd number and even for girls .
So if you know the date of birth and a persons gender there are 250 ~ possible numbers.The last group are control digits used to calculate a valid person-number.Most ( if not all ) banks and other important thing use the numbers as both identification and authentication.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its the same problem in Norway.
The person-numbers (Norwegian SSN's) are built this way:
DD MM YY III CCThe three first groups are your date of birth (which is found in all public records).The next group (III) are individual numbers ranging from 000 to 999.
If you are born before 2000 it is under 500, if your born after it is over.
If you are male it is a odd number and even for girls.
So if you know the date of birth and a persons gender there are 250~ possible numbers.The last group are control digits used to calculate a valid person-number.Most (if not all) banks and other important thing use the numbers as both identification and authentication...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601333</id>
	<title>Social Security Numbers As Identifiers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246883040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I was young, the back of my social security card has a notice: "Not to be used for identification purposes" (or something similar).  When I lost my original card and had to get a replacement, the notice was missing.  Our government is <b>solely</b> to blame for allowing the private sector to use social security numbers as identifiers.  Congress has had an overabundance of time to pass laws criminalizing the use of social security numbers by the private sector.  In my opinion, Congress has been criminally negligent in allowing this to continue for this long.</p><p>Social security numbers should be used for one, and only one, purpose: to link an individual to social security benefits.  Any other use should be a criminal offense.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was young , the back of my social security card has a notice : " Not to be used for identification purposes " ( or something similar ) .
When I lost my original card and had to get a replacement , the notice was missing .
Our government is solely to blame for allowing the private sector to use social security numbers as identifiers .
Congress has had an overabundance of time to pass laws criminalizing the use of social security numbers by the private sector .
In my opinion , Congress has been criminally negligent in allowing this to continue for this long.Social security numbers should be used for one , and only one , purpose : to link an individual to social security benefits .
Any other use should be a criminal offense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was young, the back of my social security card has a notice: "Not to be used for identification purposes" (or something similar).
When I lost my original card and had to get a replacement, the notice was missing.
Our government is solely to blame for allowing the private sector to use social security numbers as identifiers.
Congress has had an overabundance of time to pass laws criminalizing the use of social security numbers by the private sector.
In my opinion, Congress has been criminally negligent in allowing this to continue for this long.Social security numbers should be used for one, and only one, purpose: to link an individual to social security benefits.
Any other use should be a criminal offense.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602891</id>
	<title>Re:Social Security Numbers As Identifiers</title>
	<author>CoffeePlease</author>
	<datestamp>1246893120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Beautifully said. I can't understand why there isn't more public outcry about the use off SSN's, and the generally shoddy security systems of bank, credit, etc.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Beautifully said .
I ca n't understand why there is n't more public outcry about the use off SSN 's , and the generally shoddy security systems of bank , credit , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Beautifully said.
I can't understand why there isn't more public outcry about the use off SSN's, and the generally shoddy security systems of bank, credit, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28603021</id>
	<title>Re:Why guess?</title>
	<author>daath93</author>
	<datestamp>1246894020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Legally no employer has the right to request your social security number until they hire you. Social security wont even verify any information you provide to them until they have already hired you. So them asking for it prior to hire is simply for their convenience.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Legally no employer has the right to request your social security number until they hire you .
Social security wont even verify any information you provide to them until they have already hired you .
So them asking for it prior to hire is simply for their convenience .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Legally no employer has the right to request your social security number until they hire you.
Social security wont even verify any information you provide to them until they have already hired you.
So them asking for it prior to hire is simply for their convenience.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602649</id>
	<title>You're missing the point</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246891140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The point that I haven't seen anyone hit on yet is the fact that they designed it for THEIR use, not ours and not the private sector. They've even gone so far as to require that it's redacted to some degree (even though as proven a bazillion times) it's trivial to guess what's been redacted. The fact is that everyone else has adopted it because if any legal matters came up, that's the only way the law was going to identify you. The problem is that the lazy private sector doesn't have anything else that's "consistent" (and I use that term extremely loosely) across all entities to manage your identity. Hell FINGERPRINTS would be a better way of managing the authentication - the level of security required can be increased by simply requiring more fingers be scanned. Signing into a basic forum where you don't care? Swipe a digit. Logging into your bank? Swipe more, PLUS use an SSN. I'd certainly be happy to go spend the few bucks on a USB fingerprint reader for my desktop - laptop's already got it.</p><p>Let's face it - the US Government isn't known for developing numbering systems with security in mind - take a look at IPv4. What the world needs is a commercial solution for a commercial problem. What good is my SSN when doing business outside the US?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The point that I have n't seen anyone hit on yet is the fact that they designed it for THEIR use , not ours and not the private sector .
They 've even gone so far as to require that it 's redacted to some degree ( even though as proven a bazillion times ) it 's trivial to guess what 's been redacted .
The fact is that everyone else has adopted it because if any legal matters came up , that 's the only way the law was going to identify you .
The problem is that the lazy private sector does n't have anything else that 's " consistent " ( and I use that term extremely loosely ) across all entities to manage your identity .
Hell FINGERPRINTS would be a better way of managing the authentication - the level of security required can be increased by simply requiring more fingers be scanned .
Signing into a basic forum where you do n't care ?
Swipe a digit .
Logging into your bank ?
Swipe more , PLUS use an SSN .
I 'd certainly be happy to go spend the few bucks on a USB fingerprint reader for my desktop - laptop 's already got it.Let 's face it - the US Government is n't known for developing numbering systems with security in mind - take a look at IPv4 .
What the world needs is a commercial solution for a commercial problem .
What good is my SSN when doing business outside the US ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The point that I haven't seen anyone hit on yet is the fact that they designed it for THEIR use, not ours and not the private sector.
They've even gone so far as to require that it's redacted to some degree (even though as proven a bazillion times) it's trivial to guess what's been redacted.
The fact is that everyone else has adopted it because if any legal matters came up, that's the only way the law was going to identify you.
The problem is that the lazy private sector doesn't have anything else that's "consistent" (and I use that term extremely loosely) across all entities to manage your identity.
Hell FINGERPRINTS would be a better way of managing the authentication - the level of security required can be increased by simply requiring more fingers be scanned.
Signing into a basic forum where you don't care?
Swipe a digit.
Logging into your bank?
Swipe more, PLUS use an SSN.
I'd certainly be happy to go spend the few bucks on a USB fingerprint reader for my desktop - laptop's already got it.Let's face it - the US Government isn't known for developing numbering systems with security in mind - take a look at IPv4.
What the world needs is a commercial solution for a commercial problem.
What good is my SSN when doing business outside the US?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601323</id>
	<title>This isn't really new</title>
	<author>Ark42</author>
	<datestamp>1246882980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This isn't really new as the first 3 digits of your SSN already tell you which state you were born in more or less - <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=ssn+by+state" title="google.com">http://www.google.com/search?q=ssn+by+state</a> [google.com] and the numbers are issued pretty sequentially from there, so just the year you were born and the state you were born in narrows it down pretty far already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't really new as the first 3 digits of your SSN already tell you which state you were born in more or less - http : //www.google.com/search ? q = ssn + by + state [ google.com ] and the numbers are issued pretty sequentially from there , so just the year you were born and the state you were born in narrows it down pretty far already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't really new as the first 3 digits of your SSN already tell you which state you were born in more or less - http://www.google.com/search?q=ssn+by+state [google.com] and the numbers are issued pretty sequentially from there, so just the year you were born and the state you were born in narrows it down pretty far already.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601999</id>
	<title>Why Not Use Body Parts?  Or higher tech?</title>
	<author>PleaseFearMe</author>
	<datestamp>1246886520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fingerprints are used already for identification, but they are not foolproof because you leave them everywhere, and people can try to make a mold of it.  There are other body parts that are not touched as much... such as toe prints!  They are always inside a shoe so they are secret, and if they do not change much over the years, make an excellent identification card.</p><p>Social Security Numbers have been around since 1963 (says Wiki).  Technology has extended us so much.  We can count to numbers we could not have dreamed of in 1963.  Why don't we give each person a public and private key, like in Gmail?  You'll have to hurt me to get my password!  Or we can get those cool chips inserted into our fingers that are individual to us.  If the scammer in Nigera wants to know my information, what better way of protecting me than not letting me know my own information.  The chip knows it, and it's inside me!  If you want to identify me, you'll must have one of those devices that are only available in places like banks and jails.  Yay for technology!  Yay for toe prints!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fingerprints are used already for identification , but they are not foolproof because you leave them everywhere , and people can try to make a mold of it .
There are other body parts that are not touched as much... such as toe prints !
They are always inside a shoe so they are secret , and if they do not change much over the years , make an excellent identification card.Social Security Numbers have been around since 1963 ( says Wiki ) .
Technology has extended us so much .
We can count to numbers we could not have dreamed of in 1963 .
Why do n't we give each person a public and private key , like in Gmail ?
You 'll have to hurt me to get my password !
Or we can get those cool chips inserted into our fingers that are individual to us .
If the scammer in Nigera wants to know my information , what better way of protecting me than not letting me know my own information .
The chip knows it , and it 's inside me !
If you want to identify me , you 'll must have one of those devices that are only available in places like banks and jails .
Yay for technology !
Yay for toe prints !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fingerprints are used already for identification, but they are not foolproof because you leave them everywhere, and people can try to make a mold of it.
There are other body parts that are not touched as much... such as toe prints!
They are always inside a shoe so they are secret, and if they do not change much over the years, make an excellent identification card.Social Security Numbers have been around since 1963 (says Wiki).
Technology has extended us so much.
We can count to numbers we could not have dreamed of in 1963.
Why don't we give each person a public and private key, like in Gmail?
You'll have to hurt me to get my password!
Or we can get those cool chips inserted into our fingers that are individual to us.
If the scammer in Nigera wants to know my information, what better way of protecting me than not letting me know my own information.
The chip knows it, and it's inside me!
If you want to identify me, you'll must have one of those devices that are only available in places like banks and jails.
Yay for technology!
Yay for toe prints!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601871</id>
	<title>I always use my State Driver License ID number</title>
	<author>Orion Blastar</author>
	<datestamp>1246885740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>which I selected to not be my social security number.</p><p>The State ID number is a random series of letters and numbers and it is harder to guess.</p><p>The usual jokes like Ronald Reagan's social security number was 000-00-0002 because he was the second person to file behind FDR, are funny but historically inaccurate.</p><p>Illegal Immigrants or Undocumented Workers or whatever you want to call them easily generate fake SSNs, and a bulk of them use the same SSN for the same employer and it is usually a SSN of someone who died, and they got it off a death certificate. The current system of checking SSNs is broken.</p><p>What we need is a different system that is harder to guess, one that uses letters and numbers like license plates or software serial numbers. One that Social Security keeps on a secure system that can verify the numbers and tell if the new SSN is stolen or the owner of the SSN is dead and someone else may be using it for fraud.</p><p>I just hope the new system isn't abused to take away rights and freedoms, that would be bad.</p><p>I remember the colleges I went to use to use our SSN as our student number and it was on grade lists. I requested that I be issued a student number not based on my SSN for privacy reasons and they did issue me a student number different from my SSN. The grade lists would be student name, student number, and then grade issued in class and everyone could see them. The professors listed them by the door for the classroom after finals and midterm grades were calculated. Many other systems used to base employee number etc on SSNs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>which I selected to not be my social security number.The State ID number is a random series of letters and numbers and it is harder to guess.The usual jokes like Ronald Reagan 's social security number was 000-00-0002 because he was the second person to file behind FDR , are funny but historically inaccurate.Illegal Immigrants or Undocumented Workers or whatever you want to call them easily generate fake SSNs , and a bulk of them use the same SSN for the same employer and it is usually a SSN of someone who died , and they got it off a death certificate .
The current system of checking SSNs is broken.What we need is a different system that is harder to guess , one that uses letters and numbers like license plates or software serial numbers .
One that Social Security keeps on a secure system that can verify the numbers and tell if the new SSN is stolen or the owner of the SSN is dead and someone else may be using it for fraud.I just hope the new system is n't abused to take away rights and freedoms , that would be bad.I remember the colleges I went to use to use our SSN as our student number and it was on grade lists .
I requested that I be issued a student number not based on my SSN for privacy reasons and they did issue me a student number different from my SSN .
The grade lists would be student name , student number , and then grade issued in class and everyone could see them .
The professors listed them by the door for the classroom after finals and midterm grades were calculated .
Many other systems used to base employee number etc on SSNs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>which I selected to not be my social security number.The State ID number is a random series of letters and numbers and it is harder to guess.The usual jokes like Ronald Reagan's social security number was 000-00-0002 because he was the second person to file behind FDR, are funny but historically inaccurate.Illegal Immigrants or Undocumented Workers or whatever you want to call them easily generate fake SSNs, and a bulk of them use the same SSN for the same employer and it is usually a SSN of someone who died, and they got it off a death certificate.
The current system of checking SSNs is broken.What we need is a different system that is harder to guess, one that uses letters and numbers like license plates or software serial numbers.
One that Social Security keeps on a secure system that can verify the numbers and tell if the new SSN is stolen or the owner of the SSN is dead and someone else may be using it for fraud.I just hope the new system isn't abused to take away rights and freedoms, that would be bad.I remember the colleges I went to use to use our SSN as our student number and it was on grade lists.
I requested that I be issued a student number not based on my SSN for privacy reasons and they did issue me a student number different from my SSN.
The grade lists would be student name, student number, and then grade issued in class and everyone could see them.
The professors listed them by the door for the classroom after finals and midterm grades were calculated.
Many other systems used to base employee number etc on SSNs.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28603461</id>
	<title>SSN is an IDENTIFIER, not AUTHENTICATOR</title>
	<author>mwilliamson</author>
	<datestamp>1246897140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Anybody or organization using an SSN as both an identifier and a form of authentication is stupid, irresponsible and should be held accountable 100\% for breach of whatever resource they control.   The problem is in the "shared secret" type use of a damn 9-digit number, with a few of the digits already known based on state of birth.
</p><p>
Want a list of ssn's for every state?  <a href="http://www.aggiegeeks.com/wordpress/?p=94#more-94" title="aggiegeeks.com">Here's all of them.</a> [aggiegeeks.com]  Have fun.
</p><p>
-Michael
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anybody or organization using an SSN as both an identifier and a form of authentication is stupid , irresponsible and should be held accountable 100 \ % for breach of whatever resource they control .
The problem is in the " shared secret " type use of a damn 9-digit number , with a few of the digits already known based on state of birth .
Want a list of ssn 's for every state ?
Here 's all of them .
[ aggiegeeks.com ] Have fun .
-Michael</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Anybody or organization using an SSN as both an identifier and a form of authentication is stupid, irresponsible and should be held accountable 100\% for breach of whatever resource they control.
The problem is in the "shared secret" type use of a damn 9-digit number, with a few of the digits already known based on state of birth.
Want a list of ssn's for every state?
Here's all of them.
[aggiegeeks.com]  Have fun.
-Michael
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602303</id>
	<title>Military service</title>
	<author>the\_macman</author>
	<datestamp>1246888260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fuck....Nevermind the fact that if you've ever been in the military your SSN has been passed around more than a two dollar whore. Such much for security through obscurity<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:\</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fuck....Nevermind the fact that if you 've ever been in the military your SSN has been passed around more than a two dollar whore .
Such much for security through obscurity : \</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fuck....Nevermind the fact that if you've ever been in the military your SSN has been passed around more than a two dollar whore.
Such much for security through obscurity :\</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601979</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is not that SSNs are easy to guess</title>
	<author>thisissilly</author>
	<datestamp>1246886400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What the parent said.  SSN should only be used as a uniquifier, to distinguish John Smith 123-45-6789 from John Smith 123-99-4321.  The government should pick a date, say 5 years from now, and state that on that date they will publish the full list of Name &amp; SSN data.  Everyone using SSN as a shared secret must fix their databases.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What the parent said .
SSN should only be used as a uniquifier , to distinguish John Smith 123-45-6789 from John Smith 123-99-4321 .
The government should pick a date , say 5 years from now , and state that on that date they will publish the full list of Name &amp; SSN data .
Everyone using SSN as a shared secret must fix their databases .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What the parent said.
SSN should only be used as a uniquifier, to distinguish John Smith 123-45-6789 from John Smith 123-99-4321.
The government should pick a date, say 5 years from now, and state that on that date they will publish the full list of Name &amp; SSN data.
Everyone using SSN as a shared secret must fix their databases.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601409</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601599</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>sexconker</author>
	<datestamp>1246884540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The last 4 digits, or your account pin.</p><p>I haven't encountered a company that won't let you change you pin from the default (the last 4 digits of your SSN) to one of your choosing.</p><p>No, if you forget your account pin, they'll probably just have you verify your identity with the last four digits of your SSN...</p><p>But it at least keeps yous SSN off of your statements, away from the ears of eavesdroppers, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The last 4 digits , or your account pin.I have n't encountered a company that wo n't let you change you pin from the default ( the last 4 digits of your SSN ) to one of your choosing.No , if you forget your account pin , they 'll probably just have you verify your identity with the last four digits of your SSN...But it at least keeps yous SSN off of your statements , away from the ears of eavesdroppers , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The last 4 digits, or your account pin.I haven't encountered a company that won't let you change you pin from the default (the last 4 digits of your SSN) to one of your choosing.No, if you forget your account pin, they'll probably just have you verify your identity with the last four digits of your SSN...But it at least keeps yous SSN off of your statements, away from the ears of eavesdroppers, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28603555</id>
	<title>The problem isn't that you can't keep SSNs secret.</title>
	<author>jra</author>
	<datestamp>1246897800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem is that you're trying.</p><p>To extend, the problem the SSA mentions: using them as identifiers?</p><p>That's not what's causing all the trouble.  You can do that all you like, and the only people you'll piss off are privacy advocates, worried about unwanted cross-correlation.</p><p>The *real* problem, as I note in <a href="http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/25.68.html#subj10" title="ncl.ac.uk">a piece I wrote for RISKS DIgest last month</a> [ncl.ac.uk], is people using <b>knowledge of an SSN</b> (or a mother's maiden name, or any other answer not *made up by the customer*) <i>as an authenticator</i>.</p><p>If it is discoverable, and you force a customer to use it, *you* ought to be responsible when someone does, and defrauds the customer, cause you were an accessory before, and now you're on notice; it's been posted here.</p><p>Have fun, retail authentication system designers.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that you 're trying.To extend , the problem the SSA mentions : using them as identifiers ? That 's not what 's causing all the trouble .
You can do that all you like , and the only people you 'll piss off are privacy advocates , worried about unwanted cross-correlation.The * real * problem , as I note in a piece I wrote for RISKS DIgest last month [ ncl.ac.uk ] , is people using knowledge of an SSN ( or a mother 's maiden name , or any other answer not * made up by the customer * ) as an authenticator.If it is discoverable , and you force a customer to use it , * you * ought to be responsible when someone does , and defrauds the customer , cause you were an accessory before , and now you 're on notice ; it 's been posted here.Have fun , retail authentication system designers .
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that you're trying.To extend, the problem the SSA mentions: using them as identifiers?That's not what's causing all the trouble.
You can do that all you like, and the only people you'll piss off are privacy advocates, worried about unwanted cross-correlation.The *real* problem, as I note in a piece I wrote for RISKS DIgest last month [ncl.ac.uk], is people using knowledge of an SSN (or a mother's maiden name, or any other answer not *made up by the customer*) as an authenticator.If it is discoverable, and you force a customer to use it, *you* ought to be responsible when someone does, and defrauds the customer, cause you were an accessory before, and now you're on notice; it's been posted here.Have fun, retail authentication system designers.
;-)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601507</id>
	<title>fool-proof method -- who cares?</title>
	<author>whoever57</author>
	<datestamp>1246883940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>'there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person's Social Security Number.'"</p></div></blockquote><p>
Who cares that there is no fool-proof method? All that matters is that there is a significant probablilty of success.<br> <br>
Probably the only people who are safe from this are immigrants!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>'there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person 's Social Security Number .
' " Who cares that there is no fool-proof method ?
All that matters is that there is a significant probablilty of success .
Probably the only people who are safe from this are immigrants !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person's Social Security Number.
'"
Who cares that there is no fool-proof method?
All that matters is that there is a significant probablilty of success.
Probably the only people who are safe from this are immigrants!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28606039</id>
	<title>Not surprised</title>
	<author>Biswalt</author>
	<datestamp>1246970820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've always wondered why people have to use the last four numbers as an identifier so often, but it makes sense from the perspective of it being the most unique part of the number. I can't say I'm surprised by this given that I'd already figured out the 005 start means you were born in Maine for example.  So because I knew that everyone in my family had a double zero start, and none of my friends or their family did, I correctly surmised that the first three digits related to where you were born.  A little research later and I realized all other numbers are a function in some way shape or form of time.  This was all before <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social\_Security\_number" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">I'd seen an explanation about how the numbers are assigned.</a> [wikipedia.org]  So I'd already known for the last decade it wasn't a random number at all, and I'd also assumed it makes the most logical sense for the last four numbers to be assigned in some sort of serial fashion.  I would think that with computing becoming as powerful as it is that we'd be looking at a situation where the whole number is guessable if you know the time of birth.  If someone got access to say a hospital log of when new babies were born, and it was the only hospital in the zipcode as long as you could verify the SSN of any one of the babies in the log you'd then have the SSN of all babies in the log.  I knew this some nine or ten years ago when I was in college.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've always wondered why people have to use the last four numbers as an identifier so often , but it makes sense from the perspective of it being the most unique part of the number .
I ca n't say I 'm surprised by this given that I 'd already figured out the 005 start means you were born in Maine for example .
So because I knew that everyone in my family had a double zero start , and none of my friends or their family did , I correctly surmised that the first three digits related to where you were born .
A little research later and I realized all other numbers are a function in some way shape or form of time .
This was all before I 'd seen an explanation about how the numbers are assigned .
[ wikipedia.org ] So I 'd already known for the last decade it was n't a random number at all , and I 'd also assumed it makes the most logical sense for the last four numbers to be assigned in some sort of serial fashion .
I would think that with computing becoming as powerful as it is that we 'd be looking at a situation where the whole number is guessable if you know the time of birth .
If someone got access to say a hospital log of when new babies were born , and it was the only hospital in the zipcode as long as you could verify the SSN of any one of the babies in the log you 'd then have the SSN of all babies in the log .
I knew this some nine or ten years ago when I was in college .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've always wondered why people have to use the last four numbers as an identifier so often, but it makes sense from the perspective of it being the most unique part of the number.
I can't say I'm surprised by this given that I'd already figured out the 005 start means you were born in Maine for example.
So because I knew that everyone in my family had a double zero start, and none of my friends or their family did, I correctly surmised that the first three digits related to where you were born.
A little research later and I realized all other numbers are a function in some way shape or form of time.
This was all before I'd seen an explanation about how the numbers are assigned.
[wikipedia.org]  So I'd already known for the last decade it wasn't a random number at all, and I'd also assumed it makes the most logical sense for the last four numbers to be assigned in some sort of serial fashion.
I would think that with computing becoming as powerful as it is that we'd be looking at a situation where the whole number is guessable if you know the time of birth.
If someone got access to say a hospital log of when new babies were born, and it was the only hospital in the zipcode as long as you could verify the SSN of any one of the babies in the log you'd then have the SSN of all babies in the log.
I knew this some nine or ten years ago when I was in college.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604327</id>
	<title>Re:Social Security Numbers As Identifiers</title>
	<author>Rocketship Underpant</author>
	<datestamp>1246905960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The federal government *wants* you to rely on your social security card and number for identification. Know why? So you become dependent on it. So you cannot open a bank account or rent a video or buy gum without it. So that if you ever opt out of their little social "security" system, you'll face greater consequences than merely being free of a pyramid scheme.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The federal government * wants * you to rely on your social security card and number for identification .
Know why ?
So you become dependent on it .
So you can not open a bank account or rent a video or buy gum without it .
So that if you ever opt out of their little social " security " system , you 'll face greater consequences than merely being free of a pyramid scheme .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The federal government *wants* you to rely on your social security card and number for identification.
Know why?
So you become dependent on it.
So you cannot open a bank account or rent a video or buy gum without it.
So that if you ever opt out of their little social "security" system, you'll face greater consequences than merely being free of a pyramid scheme.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28605535</id>
	<title>Re:Military service</title>
	<author>backbyter</author>
	<datestamp>1246964160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I remember having to have the ssn placed on the address block in order to receive mail while I was in.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I remember having to have the ssn placed on the address block in order to receive mail while I was in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I remember having to have the ssn placed on the address block in order to receive mail while I was in.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602303</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604081</id>
	<title>Nothing new</title>
	<author>thesandbender</author>
	<datestamp>1246902660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've been doing a lot of federal contract work over the bast 6-7 years and I can guess the first 4-5 digits of most people's SSN's off the top of my head.  The first three digits are a <a href="http://www.usatrace.com/ssnchart.html" title="usatrace.com">easy</a> [usatrace.com].</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been doing a lot of federal contract work over the bast 6-7 years and I can guess the first 4-5 digits of most people 's SSN 's off the top of my head .
The first three digits are a easy [ usatrace.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been doing a lot of federal contract work over the bast 6-7 years and I can guess the first 4-5 digits of most people's SSN's off the top of my head.
The first three digits are a easy [usatrace.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601819</id>
	<title>Ran into this a few years ago...</title>
	<author>moniker</author>
	<datestamp>1246885500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Having worked in IT for 9 years at a college, this kind of thing is a nightmare.</p><p>One application we used for tracking students allowed a student to enter their SSN, which would then be replaced by their benign student ID and display their name. Even something like this is pretty dangerous.</p><p>If I know that most students at the college are going to be residents of a certain, I can limit myself to searching just for SSNs assigned to that state by looking at the first three numbers. The next two numbers are the assignment group, which will vary based on when the SSN was assigned.</p><p>But, being from the same area, it was even easier than that. I could assume that there is a good chance that someone might be born in my state and assigned an SSN in the same group as me, which means I only have to guess the last four numbers, starting with the same five numbers that I have. (As a DBA, I had access to all of this information anyways.)</p><p>Starting with my SSN, I began incrementing by one. It only took six increments to reach another persons SSN. By using this application, I could type in my variations of a known SSN and find new SSNs, along with the name of the person who belongs to that SSN.</p><p>Out of curiosity, I did a 'group by' query on the first five numbers of all the SSNs in the database (roughly 60k SSNs) and found that in the most populous grouping, you would have a 1 in 20 chance of getting an SSN just by guessing the last four numbers of this group.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Having worked in IT for 9 years at a college , this kind of thing is a nightmare.One application we used for tracking students allowed a student to enter their SSN , which would then be replaced by their benign student ID and display their name .
Even something like this is pretty dangerous.If I know that most students at the college are going to be residents of a certain , I can limit myself to searching just for SSNs assigned to that state by looking at the first three numbers .
The next two numbers are the assignment group , which will vary based on when the SSN was assigned.But , being from the same area , it was even easier than that .
I could assume that there is a good chance that someone might be born in my state and assigned an SSN in the same group as me , which means I only have to guess the last four numbers , starting with the same five numbers that I have .
( As a DBA , I had access to all of this information anyways .
) Starting with my SSN , I began incrementing by one .
It only took six increments to reach another persons SSN .
By using this application , I could type in my variations of a known SSN and find new SSNs , along with the name of the person who belongs to that SSN.Out of curiosity , I did a 'group by ' query on the first five numbers of all the SSNs in the database ( roughly 60k SSNs ) and found that in the most populous grouping , you would have a 1 in 20 chance of getting an SSN just by guessing the last four numbers of this group .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Having worked in IT for 9 years at a college, this kind of thing is a nightmare.One application we used for tracking students allowed a student to enter their SSN, which would then be replaced by their benign student ID and display their name.
Even something like this is pretty dangerous.If I know that most students at the college are going to be residents of a certain, I can limit myself to searching just for SSNs assigned to that state by looking at the first three numbers.
The next two numbers are the assignment group, which will vary based on when the SSN was assigned.But, being from the same area, it was even easier than that.
I could assume that there is a good chance that someone might be born in my state and assigned an SSN in the same group as me, which means I only have to guess the last four numbers, starting with the same five numbers that I have.
(As a DBA, I had access to all of this information anyways.
)Starting with my SSN, I began incrementing by one.
It only took six increments to reach another persons SSN.
By using this application, I could type in my variations of a known SSN and find new SSNs, along with the name of the person who belongs to that SSN.Out of curiosity, I did a 'group by' query on the first five numbers of all the SSNs in the database (roughly 60k SSNs) and found that in the most populous grouping, you would have a 1 in 20 chance of getting an SSN just by guessing the last four numbers of this group.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601409</id>
	<title>The problem is not that SSNs are easy to guess</title>
	<author>raddan</author>
	<datestamp>1246883340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because SSNs are <b>supposed</b> to be unique identifiers.  Identifiers <b>only</b>.  The problem is that they're <em>also</em> being used as the shared secret!  There's nothing secret about an SSN, people, and there shouldn't be.  I think at this point, the government needs to simply legislate the correct behavior, because companies like Comcast (who asked me for my SSN for 'security reasons' just the other day) just don't get it.  Of course, getting the government to know the 'correct behavior' is yet another battle...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because SSNs are supposed to be unique identifiers .
Identifiers only .
The problem is that they 're also being used as the shared secret !
There 's nothing secret about an SSN , people , and there should n't be .
I think at this point , the government needs to simply legislate the correct behavior , because companies like Comcast ( who asked me for my SSN for 'security reasons ' just the other day ) just do n't get it .
Of course , getting the government to know the 'correct behavior ' is yet another battle.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because SSNs are supposed to be unique identifiers.
Identifiers only.
The problem is that they're also being used as the shared secret!
There's nothing secret about an SSN, people, and there shouldn't be.
I think at this point, the government needs to simply legislate the correct behavior, because companies like Comcast (who asked me for my SSN for 'security reasons' just the other day) just don't get it.
Of course, getting the government to know the 'correct behavior' is yet another battle...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28606327</id>
	<title>Re:I always use my State Driver License ID number</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246973100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Back in '93 I took a grad school class at the University of Maryland at College Park.  Their paperwork asked for a SSN and I appended a statement declining to provide one, because admission to college is NOT one of the enumerated uses for which a government agency can require one.  So they issued me a student ID that LOOKED like an SSN but the middle two digits were 00, which is not a series used in SSNs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Back in '93 I took a grad school class at the University of Maryland at College Park .
Their paperwork asked for a SSN and I appended a statement declining to provide one , because admission to college is NOT one of the enumerated uses for which a government agency can require one .
So they issued me a student ID that LOOKED like an SSN but the middle two digits were 00 , which is not a series used in SSNs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Back in '93 I took a grad school class at the University of Maryland at College Park.
Their paperwork asked for a SSN and I appended a statement declining to provide one, because admission to college is NOT one of the enumerated uses for which a government agency can require one.
So they issued me a student ID that LOOKED like an SSN but the middle two digits were 00, which is not a series used in SSNs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601871</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604893</id>
	<title>Non-random numbers aren't random</title>
	<author>vxvxvxvx</author>
	<datestamp>1246999440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The fact this made news at all is not a sign of how broken the SSN is, but rather how stupid the target audience is. The methodology of social security number assignment is not a secret. The "research" paper is simply repeating known information that anyone could do.</p><p>Step 1: Get zip code of origin (city of birth works well for anyone born after 88.) - you got the first 3 numbers.<br>Step 2: Get date of issuance (usually date of birth) - you got the 4th and 5th number almost guaranteed. The final 4, you can narrow down to a range by looking at the publicly available SSN of the deceased. If the date was May 15 and you have on record a SSN ending in 3485 issued May 14th and 3809 on May 16th for the same first 5 digits you know the last 4 are between 3485-3808.</p><p>They took 3 years to do this?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The fact this made news at all is not a sign of how broken the SSN is , but rather how stupid the target audience is .
The methodology of social security number assignment is not a secret .
The " research " paper is simply repeating known information that anyone could do.Step 1 : Get zip code of origin ( city of birth works well for anyone born after 88 .
) - you got the first 3 numbers.Step 2 : Get date of issuance ( usually date of birth ) - you got the 4th and 5th number almost guaranteed .
The final 4 , you can narrow down to a range by looking at the publicly available SSN of the deceased .
If the date was May 15 and you have on record a SSN ending in 3485 issued May 14th and 3809 on May 16th for the same first 5 digits you know the last 4 are between 3485-3808.They took 3 years to do this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The fact this made news at all is not a sign of how broken the SSN is, but rather how stupid the target audience is.
The methodology of social security number assignment is not a secret.
The "research" paper is simply repeating known information that anyone could do.Step 1: Get zip code of origin (city of birth works well for anyone born after 88.
) - you got the first 3 numbers.Step 2: Get date of issuance (usually date of birth) - you got the 4th and 5th number almost guaranteed.
The final 4, you can narrow down to a range by looking at the publicly available SSN of the deceased.
If the date was May 15 and you have on record a SSN ending in 3485 issued May 14th and 3809 on May 16th for the same first 5 digits you know the last 4 are between 3485-3808.They took 3 years to do this?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601265</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28606417</id>
	<title>Well no duh...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246973640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>9 digits = 1 billion total possible combinations.</p><p>The population of the US = what, 400 million?</p><p>So, we're almost to the point where you can just hit 9 random numbers and have about a 50/50 chance of getting SOMEBODY's number.</p><p>Seems like we just had this problem with 7 digit phone numbers... and 4 part IP addresses...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>9 digits = 1 billion total possible combinations.The population of the US = what , 400 million ? So , we 're almost to the point where you can just hit 9 random numbers and have about a 50/50 chance of getting SOMEBODY 's number.Seems like we just had this problem with 7 digit phone numbers... and 4 part IP addresses.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>9 digits = 1 billion total possible combinations.The population of the US = what, 400 million?So, we're almost to the point where you can just hit 9 random numbers and have about a 50/50 chance of getting SOMEBODY's number.Seems like we just had this problem with 7 digit phone numbers... and 4 part IP addresses...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28603301</id>
	<title>Aren't we going to run out of SSNs?</title>
	<author>afabbro</author>
	<datestamp>1246895940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Off-topic, but...</p><p>Aren't we going to run out of SSNs?  They are never reused (according to the Social Security Administration).</p><p>They're nine digits, so theoretically they're good for a billion people, but in reality they're broken up by state.  Most states have three or four sets of starting three-digit numbers (with bigger states having more), and there are prefixes reserved for immigrants, etc.  So the nine-digit space is actually smaller.</p><p>There are ~300 million Americans, so how many more generations can the current system support?  Particularly as today, people get SSNs much earlier than they did in the past.  You can't open a college savings account for a kid without one, for example.</p><p>Yes, it would be easy to just add another digit, but I strongly suspect that is going to be another Y2K-style programming effort.  Gov't will mandate that by Jan 1, 20XX, everyone must support 12-digit SSNs, industry will spend hundreds of millions of dollars, COBOL programmers will be in demand again, congressmen will introduce legislation repeatedly to delay introduction, etc...bleh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Off-topic , but...Are n't we going to run out of SSNs ?
They are never reused ( according to the Social Security Administration ) .They 're nine digits , so theoretically they 're good for a billion people , but in reality they 're broken up by state .
Most states have three or four sets of starting three-digit numbers ( with bigger states having more ) , and there are prefixes reserved for immigrants , etc .
So the nine-digit space is actually smaller.There are ~ 300 million Americans , so how many more generations can the current system support ?
Particularly as today , people get SSNs much earlier than they did in the past .
You ca n't open a college savings account for a kid without one , for example.Yes , it would be easy to just add another digit , but I strongly suspect that is going to be another Y2K-style programming effort .
Gov't will mandate that by Jan 1 , 20XX , everyone must support 12-digit SSNs , industry will spend hundreds of millions of dollars , COBOL programmers will be in demand again , congressmen will introduce legislation repeatedly to delay introduction , etc...bleh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Off-topic, but...Aren't we going to run out of SSNs?
They are never reused (according to the Social Security Administration).They're nine digits, so theoretically they're good for a billion people, but in reality they're broken up by state.
Most states have three or four sets of starting three-digit numbers (with bigger states having more), and there are prefixes reserved for immigrants, etc.
So the nine-digit space is actually smaller.There are ~300 million Americans, so how many more generations can the current system support?
Particularly as today, people get SSNs much earlier than they did in the past.
You can't open a college savings account for a kid without one, for example.Yes, it would be easy to just add another digit, but I strongly suspect that is going to be another Y2K-style programming effort.
Gov't will mandate that by Jan 1, 20XX, everyone must support 12-digit SSNs, industry will spend hundreds of millions of dollars, COBOL programmers will be in demand again, congressmen will introduce legislation repeatedly to delay introduction, etc...bleh.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604573</id>
	<title>Simple enough</title>
	<author>fph il quozientatore</author>
	<datestamp>1246909440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>No encryption/digital signature = fail</htmltext>
<tokenext>No encryption/digital signature = fail</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No encryption/digital signature = fail</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602273</id>
	<title>funded by the National Science Foundation</title>
	<author>call -151</author>
	<datestamp>1246888080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0713361" title="nsf.gov">Here</a> [nsf.gov] is their grant and proposal abstract from the NSF.  It sounds like they did exactly what they'd proposed to do- not every grant meets that metric!  Theirs is a 3-year grant for a total of $386927.</p><p>There was a cute line in their FAQs:</p><blockquote><div><p>Q. Were the tests IRB approved?</p><p>Yes, they were approved. No SSNs were harmed during the writing of this paper.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here [ nsf.gov ] is their grant and proposal abstract from the NSF .
It sounds like they did exactly what they 'd proposed to do- not every grant meets that metric !
Theirs is a 3-year grant for a total of $ 386927.There was a cute line in their FAQs : Q. Were the tests IRB approved ? Yes , they were approved .
No SSNs were harmed during the writing of this paper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here [nsf.gov] is their grant and proposal abstract from the NSF.
It sounds like they did exactly what they'd proposed to do- not every grant meets that metric!
Theirs is a 3-year grant for a total of $386927.There was a cute line in their FAQs:Q. Were the tests IRB approved?Yes, they were approved.
No SSNs were harmed during the writing of this paper.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604077</id>
	<title>Re:SSN's have no error control</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246902600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Also, the prohibition against using them as personal identifiers should be strengthened and enforced.</p></div></blockquote><p>Ironically, the US Government itself seems to be the biggest culprit.  I have a handful of student loans from when I was in school:

</p><p>1. A small loan from Edfinancial Services.  My account number is seemingly random. (I'm sure it's not random to them, but if it's at all dervived from my SSN it's not clear how.)<br>
2. Several large loans from Citibank (eew!).  The account number is also seemingly random and significantly longer than an SSN.<br>
3. A loan from the federal government.  The account number is my SSN.  Recently--as of a few months ago--they started to only show the last four digits on the paper they mailed you.  They still request that you write your account number (SSN) on the check if you pay that way, though.

</p><p>Go figure.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , the prohibition against using them as personal identifiers should be strengthened and enforced.Ironically , the US Government itself seems to be the biggest culprit .
I have a handful of student loans from when I was in school : 1 .
A small loan from Edfinancial Services .
My account number is seemingly random .
( I 'm sure it 's not random to them , but if it 's at all dervived from my SSN it 's not clear how .
) 2 .
Several large loans from Citibank ( eew ! ) .
The account number is also seemingly random and significantly longer than an SSN .
3. A loan from the federal government .
The account number is my SSN .
Recently--as of a few months ago--they started to only show the last four digits on the paper they mailed you .
They still request that you write your account number ( SSN ) on the check if you pay that way , though .
Go figure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, the prohibition against using them as personal identifiers should be strengthened and enforced.Ironically, the US Government itself seems to be the biggest culprit.
I have a handful of student loans from when I was in school:

1.
A small loan from Edfinancial Services.
My account number is seemingly random.
(I'm sure it's not random to them, but if it's at all dervived from my SSN it's not clear how.
)
2.
Several large loans from Citibank (eew!).
The account number is also seemingly random and significantly longer than an SSN.
3. A loan from the federal government.
The account number is my SSN.
Recently--as of a few months ago--they started to only show the last four digits on the paper they mailed you.
They still request that you write your account number (SSN) on the check if you pay that way, though.
Go figure.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602075</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602877</id>
	<title>Re:Duh</title>
	<author>daath93</author>
	<datestamp>1246893000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Social Security administration now has a policy that if you have a sequential number with a sibling or other close family member you can get a new number. Nowadays we would clear your sister's SSN one day, then clear yours the next (or vice-versa) to prevent this from happening. You may also aquire a new social security number if you have rampant ID theft, or a religious aversion to your number (I.E. 666 appears in it).</htmltext>
<tokenext>Social Security administration now has a policy that if you have a sequential number with a sibling or other close family member you can get a new number .
Nowadays we would clear your sister 's SSN one day , then clear yours the next ( or vice-versa ) to prevent this from happening .
You may also aquire a new social security number if you have rampant ID theft , or a religious aversion to your number ( I.E .
666 appears in it ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Social Security administration now has a policy that if you have a sequential number with a sibling or other close family member you can get a new number.
Nowadays we would clear your sister's SSN one day, then clear yours the next (or vice-versa) to prevent this from happening.
You may also aquire a new social security number if you have rampant ID theft, or a religious aversion to your number (I.E.
666 appears in it).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601265</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604349</id>
	<title>Re:I call bullshit.</title>
	<author>afidel</author>
	<datestamp>1246906260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Uh, it WAS banned and after industry cried that the government had gone and made a standard identifier and was keeping it to themselves they went and unbanned it! In fact from my reading the social security act might never have passed if an amendment hadn't been added to require that the SS number be used only for the administration of SS benefits. It was another case of wise men seeing the future coming and <i>almost</i> heading it off, but failing by assuming that the men that would follow them would be as wise.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh , it WAS banned and after industry cried that the government had gone and made a standard identifier and was keeping it to themselves they went and unbanned it !
In fact from my reading the social security act might never have passed if an amendment had n't been added to require that the SS number be used only for the administration of SS benefits .
It was another case of wise men seeing the future coming and almost heading it off , but failing by assuming that the men that would follow them would be as wise .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh, it WAS banned and after industry cried that the government had gone and made a standard identifier and was keeping it to themselves they went and unbanned it!
In fact from my reading the social security act might never have passed if an amendment hadn't been added to require that the SS number be used only for the administration of SS benefits.
It was another case of wise men seeing the future coming and almost heading it off, but failing by assuming that the men that would follow them would be as wise.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602053</id>
	<title>Re:Why guess?</title>
	<author>nmb3000</author>
	<datestamp>1246886880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Pretty much every application I've ever filled out has asked for a social security number.</i></p><p>This is why I've adopted the practice of simply writing "N/A", "-----", or just nothing when asked for a SSN.  It's incredibly uncommon that they actually <b>need</b> that information, usually it's just stuck on there because the person making the form figures it should be on it.  Go to a doctor of any kind?  Don't need it unless you're processing your payment through insurance (and not even always then).  I'll bet that in all the forms you fill out, maybe 10\% have a legitimate need to know your SSN, and those are almost always employment applications.</p><p>They can always ask again or press the issue if it's really needed.  Why just hand out sensitive information because some random piece of paper asks you to?  I wonder how many people would fill in credit card numbers, bank account passwords, and mother's maiden name when asked to sign up for a grocery store "savings" card?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pretty much every application I 've ever filled out has asked for a social security number.This is why I 've adopted the practice of simply writing " N/A " , " ----- " , or just nothing when asked for a SSN .
It 's incredibly uncommon that they actually need that information , usually it 's just stuck on there because the person making the form figures it should be on it .
Go to a doctor of any kind ?
Do n't need it unless you 're processing your payment through insurance ( and not even always then ) .
I 'll bet that in all the forms you fill out , maybe 10 \ % have a legitimate need to know your SSN , and those are almost always employment applications.They can always ask again or press the issue if it 's really needed .
Why just hand out sensitive information because some random piece of paper asks you to ?
I wonder how many people would fill in credit card numbers , bank account passwords , and mother 's maiden name when asked to sign up for a grocery store " savings " card ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pretty much every application I've ever filled out has asked for a social security number.This is why I've adopted the practice of simply writing "N/A", "-----", or just nothing when asked for a SSN.
It's incredibly uncommon that they actually need that information, usually it's just stuck on there because the person making the form figures it should be on it.
Go to a doctor of any kind?
Don't need it unless you're processing your payment through insurance (and not even always then).
I'll bet that in all the forms you fill out, maybe 10\% have a legitimate need to know your SSN, and those are almost always employment applications.They can always ask again or press the issue if it's really needed.
Why just hand out sensitive information because some random piece of paper asks you to?
I wonder how many people would fill in credit card numbers, bank account passwords, and mother's maiden name when asked to sign up for a grocery store "savings" card?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28606573</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>Timex</author>
	<datestamp>1246974780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The first five digits aren't guaranteed to have anything to do with the person's place of birth, and the date of birth doesn't really have any say in the matter anyway.</p><p>Information on the derivation of a person's SSN can be found <a href="http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/geocard.html" title="ssa.gov">on the SSA's website</a> [ssa.gov].</p><p>Before 1972, the first three digits came from blocks assigned to the state from which the SSN was issued.  After 1972, the first three digits came from the ZIP code of the applicant's mailing address (which, as you may expect, is not guaranteed to be the same as the actual place of residence).</p><p>Myself, I was born in one state, raised in another, but my SSN reflects the state I was living in at the time my mother applied for it.  (I'm old enough where I was not issued a number at birth, like my children were.)  I have fun with people who try to show their intelligence with comments like "Oh, you're from [State], huh?"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The first five digits are n't guaranteed to have anything to do with the person 's place of birth , and the date of birth does n't really have any say in the matter anyway.Information on the derivation of a person 's SSN can be found on the SSA 's website [ ssa.gov ] .Before 1972 , the first three digits came from blocks assigned to the state from which the SSN was issued .
After 1972 , the first three digits came from the ZIP code of the applicant 's mailing address ( which , as you may expect , is not guaranteed to be the same as the actual place of residence ) .Myself , I was born in one state , raised in another , but my SSN reflects the state I was living in at the time my mother applied for it .
( I 'm old enough where I was not issued a number at birth , like my children were .
) I have fun with people who try to show their intelligence with comments like " Oh , you 're from [ State ] , huh ?
" : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The first five digits aren't guaranteed to have anything to do with the person's place of birth, and the date of birth doesn't really have any say in the matter anyway.Information on the derivation of a person's SSN can be found on the SSA's website [ssa.gov].Before 1972, the first three digits came from blocks assigned to the state from which the SSN was issued.
After 1972, the first three digits came from the ZIP code of the applicant's mailing address (which, as you may expect, is not guaranteed to be the same as the actual place of residence).Myself, I was born in one state, raised in another, but my SSN reflects the state I was living in at the time my mother applied for it.
(I'm old enough where I was not issued a number at birth, like my children were.
)  I have fun with people who try to show their intelligence with comments like "Oh, you're from [State], huh?
" :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601317</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246882980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Even though your post was quite amusing, I think the whole "last 4 digit" thing is overused as well.
Since pretty much everyone only needs the "last 4 digits" to verify identity, if one of your conversations is compromised (ever overhear a co-worker's phone call?) then pretty much all of your accounts will be easy to break into.
Coupled with the fact that it is next to impossible to actually change a SSN, you are pretty much screwed for life.
Why SSNs were used as security devices is beyond me, though I am guessing the fact that "everyone already has one!" was a big part of it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even though your post was quite amusing , I think the whole " last 4 digit " thing is overused as well .
Since pretty much everyone only needs the " last 4 digits " to verify identity , if one of your conversations is compromised ( ever overhear a co-worker 's phone call ?
) then pretty much all of your accounts will be easy to break into .
Coupled with the fact that it is next to impossible to actually change a SSN , you are pretty much screwed for life .
Why SSNs were used as security devices is beyond me , though I am guessing the fact that " everyone already has one !
" was a big part of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even though your post was quite amusing, I think the whole "last 4 digit" thing is overused as well.
Since pretty much everyone only needs the "last 4 digits" to verify identity, if one of your conversations is compromised (ever overhear a co-worker's phone call?
) then pretty much all of your accounts will be easy to break into.
Coupled with the fact that it is next to impossible to actually change a SSN, you are pretty much screwed for life.
Why SSNs were used as security devices is beyond me, though I am guessing the fact that "everyone already has one!
" was a big part of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28603805</id>
	<title>Interesting, but inapplicable to me</title>
	<author>grolaw</author>
	<datestamp>1246899720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I signed up for my SSN 2000 miles from where I was born, in the 1960s, where the facility that issued me the card (I still have) had the man pull the card off of a stack - I just picked a day and time to apply and was handed that card as a 14 year-old.  I suspect I'm damn random.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I signed up for my SSN 2000 miles from where I was born , in the 1960s , where the facility that issued me the card ( I still have ) had the man pull the card off of a stack - I just picked a day and time to apply and was handed that card as a 14 year-old .
I suspect I 'm damn random .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I signed up for my SSN 2000 miles from where I was born, in the 1960s, where the facility that issued me the card (I still have) had the man pull the card off of a stack - I just picked a day and time to apply and was handed that card as a 14 year-old.
I suspect I'm damn random.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28606513</id>
	<title>Re:Social Security Numbers As Identifiers</title>
	<author>maxume</author>
	<datestamp>1246974360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Using it for identity isn't that big a deal. Using it for authentication of identity is the problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Using it for identity is n't that big a deal .
Using it for authentication of identity is the problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Using it for identity isn't that big a deal.
Using it for authentication of identity is the problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601587</id>
	<title>Sorry: Not News</title>
	<author>WheelDweller</author>
	<datestamp>1246884480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I saw a guy on one of those shows...might have been Donahue, do that knowing only the guy's age and state....verifying whether it was the right number.</p><p>The whole SSN thing is such a misnomer. There's only so many digits; people think every number has one person....it doesn't work that way.  Instead, it's intended to weed out the (possibly) 10,000,000 "Joe Smiths" out there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I saw a guy on one of those shows...might have been Donahue , do that knowing only the guy 's age and state....verifying whether it was the right number.The whole SSN thing is such a misnomer .
There 's only so many digits ; people think every number has one person....it does n't work that way .
Instead , it 's intended to weed out the ( possibly ) 10,000,000 " Joe Smiths " out there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I saw a guy on one of those shows...might have been Donahue, do that knowing only the guy's age and state....verifying whether it was the right number.The whole SSN thing is such a misnomer.
There's only so many digits; people think every number has one person....it doesn't work that way.
Instead, it's intended to weed out the (possibly) 10,000,000 "Joe Smiths" out there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28603355</id>
	<title>Well duh?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246896300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You could also go backward and pick random 7 numbers (more or less) and use their very simple numbering method to trace back to who owns that number, too. SSNs are simply a joke. How can you use something determined by public records for privacy and security?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You could also go backward and pick random 7 numbers ( more or less ) and use their very simple numbering method to trace back to who owns that number , too .
SSNs are simply a joke .
How can you use something determined by public records for privacy and security ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could also go backward and pick random 7 numbers (more or less) and use their very simple numbering method to trace back to who owns that number, too.
SSNs are simply a joke.
How can you use something determined by public records for privacy and security?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604419</id>
	<title>Re:Why guess?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246907520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I could also see this technique being combined for some nasty phishing methods. Set up a fake credit check website, ask for their date of birth, the security question is their place of birth, and the last four digits of their social security number is their pin number. Using the technique of these researchers, you can guess a significant portion of people's SS numbers..</p></div><p>If its a "credit check website", I'm asking for the SSN outright....how else would I check their credit?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I could also see this technique being combined for some nasty phishing methods .
Set up a fake credit check website , ask for their date of birth , the security question is their place of birth , and the last four digits of their social security number is their pin number .
Using the technique of these researchers , you can guess a significant portion of people 's SS numbers..If its a " credit check website " , I 'm asking for the SSN outright....how else would I check their credit ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I could also see this technique being combined for some nasty phishing methods.
Set up a fake credit check website, ask for their date of birth, the security question is their place of birth, and the last four digits of their social security number is their pin number.
Using the technique of these researchers, you can guess a significant portion of people's SS numbers..If its a "credit check website", I'm asking for the SSN outright....how else would I check their credit?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601461</id>
	<title>Tell me something I didn't already know.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246883760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is old news, especially to me.  I used this method to <i>invent</i> a plausible SSN for Michael J. Volpe, my legal-drinking-age alter ago when I was in college.  I figured that as long as I had a fake ID, I'd see if I could use it to leverage myself into a false identity too.  The number I used had the right digits for his supposed data and place of birth; the rest was just random.  I never got any real documentation or credit accounts issued for Michael, but that was only because I ran into bootstrapping issues using a SSN with no history, not because the SSN was recognized by anyone as invalid.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is old news , especially to me .
I used this method to invent a plausible SSN for Michael J. Volpe , my legal-drinking-age alter ago when I was in college .
I figured that as long as I had a fake ID , I 'd see if I could use it to leverage myself into a false identity too .
The number I used had the right digits for his supposed data and place of birth ; the rest was just random .
I never got any real documentation or credit accounts issued for Michael , but that was only because I ran into bootstrapping issues using a SSN with no history , not because the SSN was recognized by anyone as invalid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is old news, especially to me.
I used this method to invent a plausible SSN for Michael J. Volpe, my legal-drinking-age alter ago when I was in college.
I figured that as long as I had a fake ID, I'd see if I could use it to leverage myself into a false identity too.
The number I used had the right digits for his supposed data and place of birth; the rest was just random.
I never got any real documentation or credit accounts issued for Michael, but that was only because I ran into bootstrapping issues using a SSN with no history, not because the SSN was recognized by anyone as invalid.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601293</id>
	<title>Hardly news</title>
	<author>Todd Knarr</author>
	<datestamp>1246882860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not news to anyone who knows how SSN assignment works. The first three digits (region code) have always been assigned based on state (with a few exceptions for things like Railroad Retirement and military uses), and since a new region code's only assigned to a state when the old one's nearly exhausted there's usually only a short period when there's 2 regions in use for a state. The middle 2 digits (group code) have always been assigned in a strict order as groups are exhausted. And SSNs are generally only assigned at 2 times: birth, or the first time someone gets a job and has to pay taxes (usually in high school). So if you know the state and date of someone's birth and where they went to high school, it's long been known that you can narrow it down to only a small handful of possible region and group codes. The only thing this research does is extend that into the last 4 digits, and I'm not surprised they found those assigned in some order over time. If I had to guess, frankly I'd've guessed that the last 4 digits were just assigned in order starting from 0000 with a new group code being assigned around 9900.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not news to anyone who knows how SSN assignment works .
The first three digits ( region code ) have always been assigned based on state ( with a few exceptions for things like Railroad Retirement and military uses ) , and since a new region code 's only assigned to a state when the old one 's nearly exhausted there 's usually only a short period when there 's 2 regions in use for a state .
The middle 2 digits ( group code ) have always been assigned in a strict order as groups are exhausted .
And SSNs are generally only assigned at 2 times : birth , or the first time someone gets a job and has to pay taxes ( usually in high school ) .
So if you know the state and date of someone 's birth and where they went to high school , it 's long been known that you can narrow it down to only a small handful of possible region and group codes .
The only thing this research does is extend that into the last 4 digits , and I 'm not surprised they found those assigned in some order over time .
If I had to guess , frankly I 'd've guessed that the last 4 digits were just assigned in order starting from 0000 with a new group code being assigned around 9900 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not news to anyone who knows how SSN assignment works.
The first three digits (region code) have always been assigned based on state (with a few exceptions for things like Railroad Retirement and military uses), and since a new region code's only assigned to a state when the old one's nearly exhausted there's usually only a short period when there's 2 regions in use for a state.
The middle 2 digits (group code) have always been assigned in a strict order as groups are exhausted.
And SSNs are generally only assigned at 2 times: birth, or the first time someone gets a job and has to pay taxes (usually in high school).
So if you know the state and date of someone's birth and where they went to high school, it's long been known that you can narrow it down to only a small handful of possible region and group codes.
The only thing this research does is extend that into the last 4 digits, and I'm not surprised they found those assigned in some order over time.
If I had to guess, frankly I'd've guessed that the last 4 digits were just assigned in order starting from 0000 with a new group code being assigned around 9900.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28607399</id>
	<title>Re:CMU + SSN</title>
	<author>jeffb (2.718)</author>
	<datestamp>1246978740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Heh.  At Virginia Tech in the early '80's, they used SSN's as student ID's, too.  Test results and grades would be posted on the doors of classrooms, identified by SSN with names omitted, for "privacy".  Of course, the lists were still sorted alphabetically by name.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Heh .
At Virginia Tech in the early '80 's , they used SSN 's as student ID 's , too .
Test results and grades would be posted on the doors of classrooms , identified by SSN with names omitted , for " privacy " .
Of course , the lists were still sorted alphabetically by name .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heh.
At Virginia Tech in the early '80's, they used SSN's as student ID's, too.
Test results and grades would be posted on the doors of classrooms, identified by SSN with names omitted, for "privacy".
Of course, the lists were still sorted alphabetically by name.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601427</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602115</id>
	<title>Re:Why guess?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I hav lots of monies in bank waiting for me,<br>Give your number and I get rich for us<br>Then the womans loves us!!!!!<br>Clikc here<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:::)))!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I hav lots of monies in bank waiting for me,Give your number and I get rich for usThen the womans loves us ! ! ! !
! Clikc here : : : ) ) ) !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I hav lots of monies in bank waiting for me,Give your number and I get rich for usThen the womans loves us!!!!
!Clikc here :::)))!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601793</id>
	<title>Re:Why guess?</title>
	<author>StikyPad</author>
	<datestamp>1246885440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's already common practice for ID thieves to troll Monster and Craigslist posing as potential employers.  In most cases, the fake employers are easy to spot, but I imagine the technique will become more sophisticated in the future, if it hasn't already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's already common practice for ID thieves to troll Monster and Craigslist posing as potential employers .
In most cases , the fake employers are easy to spot , but I imagine the technique will become more sophisticated in the future , if it has n't already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's already common practice for ID thieves to troll Monster and Craigslist posing as potential employers.
In most cases, the fake employers are easy to spot, but I imagine the technique will become more sophisticated in the future, if it hasn't already.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601287</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28605649</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246965720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This about SSN's is: bad thing.</p><p>Background: military medic where EVERYTHING in the military goes by your SSN, to include Healthcare.</p><p>I'm a numbers geek and can memorize strings almost instantaneously.  At first it helped for the frequent fliers in the ER as I'd see them at the door, and start the paperwork, already knowing thier chief complaint AND their SSN.  Then as I learned more and more numbers I started putting them together.  Researched a bit, and found a little matrix I kept running in my head--&gt; where they were from.</p><p>Initial Use: I would use where they were from.  I used it once in a rape with great success.  "So where are you from in Colorado", putting them in a mental "safe place" for a moment, enabling me to start treatment.  Used it thereafter on emotionally straining occurrences.</p><p>Second: Profit.  While deployed I would bet people coming into the clinic $5 I could guess where they were from stateside by their heartbeat.  Of course they'd take the bait as I warmed my stethoscope.  Glancing at their dog tags would be all I'd need to get state, and in several instances -&gt;Cities.  "Hrm your from...  grr (feigned mental anxiety on my part)   TEXAS!  actually  --&gt; (455-xx-xxx)   San Antonio! *Showmanship wins*  $5 please or a pack of Marlboro's</p><p>My PROBLEM with our set up is if I'm captured I'm required to give the Enemy my NAME, RANK, SSN.  Give me anyone's SSN and I can find out way too much information on you, to include where your FAMILY LIVES!  Useful to an enemy combatant?  I think so.  I'd prefer the use of a Military issued ID number that wasn't associated with any other number that identifies you, except to our military; such was used in my grandfathers time in service.</p><p>My experiences with SSN's, please do not try this at home, never shower with power tools.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This about SSN 's is : bad thing.Background : military medic where EVERYTHING in the military goes by your SSN , to include Healthcare.I 'm a numbers geek and can memorize strings almost instantaneously .
At first it helped for the frequent fliers in the ER as I 'd see them at the door , and start the paperwork , already knowing thier chief complaint AND their SSN .
Then as I learned more and more numbers I started putting them together .
Researched a bit , and found a little matrix I kept running in my head-- &gt; where they were from.Initial Use : I would use where they were from .
I used it once in a rape with great success .
" So where are you from in Colorado " , putting them in a mental " safe place " for a moment , enabling me to start treatment .
Used it thereafter on emotionally straining occurrences.Second : Profit .
While deployed I would bet people coming into the clinic $ 5 I could guess where they were from stateside by their heartbeat .
Of course they 'd take the bait as I warmed my stethoscope .
Glancing at their dog tags would be all I 'd need to get state , and in several instances - &gt; Cities .
" Hrm your from... grr ( feigned mental anxiety on my part ) TEXAS !
actually -- &gt; ( 455-xx-xxx ) San Antonio !
* Showmanship wins * $ 5 please or a pack of Marlboro'sMy PROBLEM with our set up is if I 'm captured I 'm required to give the Enemy my NAME , RANK , SSN .
Give me anyone 's SSN and I can find out way too much information on you , to include where your FAMILY LIVES !
Useful to an enemy combatant ?
I think so .
I 'd prefer the use of a Military issued ID number that was n't associated with any other number that identifies you , except to our military ; such was used in my grandfathers time in service.My experiences with SSN 's , please do not try this at home , never shower with power tools .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This about SSN's is: bad thing.Background: military medic where EVERYTHING in the military goes by your SSN, to include Healthcare.I'm a numbers geek and can memorize strings almost instantaneously.
At first it helped for the frequent fliers in the ER as I'd see them at the door, and start the paperwork, already knowing thier chief complaint AND their SSN.
Then as I learned more and more numbers I started putting them together.
Researched a bit, and found a little matrix I kept running in my head--&gt; where they were from.Initial Use: I would use where they were from.
I used it once in a rape with great success.
"So where are you from in Colorado", putting them in a mental "safe place" for a moment, enabling me to start treatment.
Used it thereafter on emotionally straining occurrences.Second: Profit.
While deployed I would bet people coming into the clinic $5 I could guess where they were from stateside by their heartbeat.
Of course they'd take the bait as I warmed my stethoscope.
Glancing at their dog tags would be all I'd need to get state, and in several instances -&gt;Cities.
"Hrm your from...  grr (feigned mental anxiety on my part)   TEXAS!
actually  --&gt; (455-xx-xxx)   San Antonio!
*Showmanship wins*  $5 please or a pack of Marlboro'sMy PROBLEM with our set up is if I'm captured I'm required to give the Enemy my NAME, RANK, SSN.
Give me anyone's SSN and I can find out way too much information on you, to include where your FAMILY LIVES!
Useful to an enemy combatant?
I think so.
I'd prefer the use of a Military issued ID number that wasn't associated with any other number that identifies you, except to our military; such was used in my grandfathers time in service.My experiences with SSN's, please do not try this at home, never shower with power tools.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28606157</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is not that SSNs are easy to guess</title>
	<author>Biswalt</author>
	<datestamp>1246972020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yeah, b/c basically all you are doing is breaking down when and where some specific person was born so that government computers can take "John Smith of 123 Main St
Idaho City, ID 83631" and Turn him into 518-83-1234 for organizational purposes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , b/c basically all you are doing is breaking down when and where some specific person was born so that government computers can take " John Smith of 123 Main St Idaho City , ID 83631 " and Turn him into 518-83-1234 for organizational purposes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, b/c basically all you are doing is breaking down when and where some specific person was born so that government computers can take "John Smith of 123 Main St
Idaho City, ID 83631" and Turn him into 518-83-1234 for organizational purposes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601409</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601513</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>davester666</author>
	<datestamp>1246883940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person's Social Security Number"</p><p>We have MUCH bigger fools now, so it's no big deal to predict SSN's...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person 's Social Security Number " We have MUCH bigger fools now , so it 's no big deal to predict SSN 's.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person's Social Security Number"We have MUCH bigger fools now, so it's no big deal to predict SSN's...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28603097</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246894620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Best first post. Ever.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Best first post .
Ever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Best first post.
Ever.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602075</id>
	<title>SSN's have no error control</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Change a digit or transpose digits in an SSN and you most likely will transform it into another valid SSN.</p><p>The SSN numbering system was developed in the mid 1930's.  The modern mathematics of error control were published by Shannon after World War II.  (His work or error control was related to work on cryptography.)  By "modern" mathematics, I refer to the fact that there was some understanding of error control in old telegraph systems, but it wasn't developed systematically.</p><p>Credit cards have check digits that will catch some common errors in data entry.  Computer and communications technology use error control in many ways.   SSN's are still back in the 1930's.</p><p>Perhaps it is time to modernize them by at least adding check digits.  Also, the prohibition against using them as personal identifiers should be strengthened and enforced.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Change a digit or transpose digits in an SSN and you most likely will transform it into another valid SSN.The SSN numbering system was developed in the mid 1930 's .
The modern mathematics of error control were published by Shannon after World War II .
( His work or error control was related to work on cryptography .
) By " modern " mathematics , I refer to the fact that there was some understanding of error control in old telegraph systems , but it was n't developed systematically.Credit cards have check digits that will catch some common errors in data entry .
Computer and communications technology use error control in many ways .
SSN 's are still back in the 1930 's.Perhaps it is time to modernize them by at least adding check digits .
Also , the prohibition against using them as personal identifiers should be strengthened and enforced .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Change a digit or transpose digits in an SSN and you most likely will transform it into another valid SSN.The SSN numbering system was developed in the mid 1930's.
The modern mathematics of error control were published by Shannon after World War II.
(His work or error control was related to work on cryptography.
)  By "modern" mathematics, I refer to the fact that there was some understanding of error control in old telegraph systems, but it wasn't developed systematically.Credit cards have check digits that will catch some common errors in data entry.
Computer and communications technology use error control in many ways.
SSN's are still back in the 1930's.Perhaps it is time to modernize them by at least adding check digits.
Also, the prohibition against using them as personal identifiers should be strengthened and enforced.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604833</id>
	<title>OOhh  the horror!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246999020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone from Sweden I fail to see the severety of this...</p><p>let me reveal the secret algorithm for Swedish SSNs:</p><p>Date of birth 6 digits: next 2 digits used to be place of birth, but not any more. Then there is a digit that is odd for males and even for females and then a checksum digit</p><p>YYMMDD-XXGC</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone from Sweden I fail to see the severety of this...let me reveal the secret algorithm for Swedish SSNs : Date of birth 6 digits : next 2 digits used to be place of birth , but not any more .
Then there is a digit that is odd for males and even for females and then a checksum digitYYMMDD-XXGC</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone from Sweden I fail to see the severety of this...let me reveal the secret algorithm for Swedish SSNs:Date of birth 6 digits: next 2 digits used to be place of birth, but not any more.
Then there is a digit that is odd for males and even for females and then a checksum digitYYMMDD-XXGC</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601265</id>
	<title>Duh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246882680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It was pretty obvious when my sister and I received sequential numbers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It was pretty obvious when my sister and I received sequential numbers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was pretty obvious when my sister and I received sequential numbers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601661</id>
	<title>This problem will go away</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246884780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Once we make the switch to SSNv6.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Once we make the switch to SSNv6 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once we make the switch to SSNv6.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604323</id>
	<title>Look...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246905900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's called a Social <b>Security</b> Number for a reason.  Clearly if we use it, things will be secure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's called a Social Security Number for a reason .
Clearly if we use it , things will be secure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's called a Social Security Number for a reason.
Clearly if we use it, things will be secure.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601279</id>
	<title>In other words</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246882800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Most of the useful "security" characteristics of the SSN are in the last 4 digits.
</p><p>
If you know the last 4 digits of a SSN,  and you get 2 or 3 guesses, then using their model: you can expect to guess the entire SSN correctly.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of the useful " security " characteristics of the SSN are in the last 4 digits .
If you know the last 4 digits of a SSN , and you get 2 or 3 guesses , then using their model : you can expect to guess the entire SSN correctly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Most of the useful "security" characteristics of the SSN are in the last 4 digits.
If you know the last 4 digits of a SSN,  and you get 2 or 3 guesses, then using their model: you can expect to guess the entire SSN correctly.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602065</id>
	<title>the real paper</title>
	<author>cinnamon colbert</author>
	<datestamp>1246886940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you can get a pdf of the actual report by the researchers - no 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand stuff, for free from this url<br><a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/07/02/0904891106.full.pdf+html?sid=5e51e1ab-8945-420c-8013-29182641090e" title="pnas.org">http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/07/02/0904891106.full.pdf+html?sid=5e51e1ab-8945-420c-8013-29182641090e</a> [pnas.org]<br>which raises an interesting question: why do<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.ers, who obviously consider themselves above average, make do with 2nd hand reports when they can so easily get the real thing.</p><p>actually bothering to take, say, 5 min to find and read the original report would have zeroed out a lot of the nonsense on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. for instance: the report, in its intro, says that the SS administratin openly discloses that the first 3 digits are area number, AN....</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you can get a pdf of the actual report by the researchers - no 2nd , 3rd and 4th hand stuff , for free from this urlhttp : //www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/07/02/0904891106.full.pdf + html ? sid = 5e51e1ab-8945-420c-8013-29182641090e [ pnas.org ] which raises an interesting question : why do /.ers , who obviously consider themselves above average , make do with 2nd hand reports when they can so easily get the real thing.actually bothering to take , say , 5 min to find and read the original report would have zeroed out a lot of the nonsense on / .
for instance : the report , in its intro , says that the SS administratin openly discloses that the first 3 digits are area number , AN... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you can get a pdf of the actual report by the researchers - no 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand stuff, for free from this urlhttp://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/07/02/0904891106.full.pdf+html?sid=5e51e1ab-8945-420c-8013-29182641090e [pnas.org]which raises an interesting question: why do /.ers, who obviously consider themselves above average, make do with 2nd hand reports when they can so easily get the real thing.actually bothering to take, say, 5 min to find and read the original report would have zeroed out a lot of the nonsense on /.
for instance: the report, in its intro, says that the SS administratin openly discloses that the first 3 digits are area number, AN....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602531</id>
	<title>Re:I always use my State Driver License ID number</title>
	<author>arb phd slp</author>
	<datestamp>1246889880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The State ID number is a random series of letters and numbers and it is harder to guess</p></div><p>In New Hampshire, if you know somebody's name, DOB and a couple of other things you can extrapolate someone's driver's license number. (I can't remember what else was in there and they confiscated it when I got my PA one. Eye color, maybe.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The State ID number is a random series of letters and numbers and it is harder to guessIn New Hampshire , if you know somebody 's name , DOB and a couple of other things you can extrapolate someone 's driver 's license number .
( I ca n't remember what else was in there and they confiscated it when I got my PA one .
Eye color , maybe .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The State ID number is a random series of letters and numbers and it is harder to guessIn New Hampshire, if you know somebody's name, DOB and a couple of other things you can extrapolate someone's driver's license number.
(I can't remember what else was in there and they confiscated it when I got my PA one.
Eye color, maybe.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601871</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601427</id>
	<title>CMU + SSN</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246883460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>hehehe... about 10 years ago CMU was using SSN's as Student ID's.... and CMU researchers were using university data including student ID's in research they were publishing on the web(without notifying students)... oops.</p><p>why it pays to google for your SSN every once in a while.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>hehehe... about 10 years ago CMU was using SSN 's as Student ID 's.... and CMU researchers were using university data including student ID 's in research they were publishing on the web ( without notifying students ) ... oops.why it pays to google for your SSN every once in a while .
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hehehe... about 10 years ago CMU was using SSN's as Student ID's.... and CMU researchers were using university data including student ID's in research they were publishing on the web(without notifying students)... oops.why it pays to google for your SSN every once in a while.
;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601993</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>aztektum</author>
	<datestamp>1246886520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why SSNs were used as security devices is beyond me, though I am guessing the fact that "everyone already has one!" was a big part of it.</p></div><p>Having once worked in the sales realm of the cellular phone industry, I've encountered people with several!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why SSNs were used as security devices is beyond me , though I am guessing the fact that " everyone already has one !
" was a big part of it.Having once worked in the sales realm of the cellular phone industry , I 've encountered people with several !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why SSNs were used as security devices is beyond me, though I am guessing the fact that "everyone already has one!
" was a big part of it.Having once worked in the sales realm of the cellular phone industry, I've encountered people with several!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28606485</id>
	<title>Re:Why Not Use Body Parts? Or higher tech?</title>
	<author>Timex</author>
	<datestamp>1246974120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Social Security Numbers have been around since 1963 (says Wiki).</p></div><p>I think you've got an accidental transposition here...  <a href="http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/firstcard.html" title="ssa.gov">According to the SSA</a> [ssa.gov], the first card was issued in 1936, not 1963.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Social Security Numbers have been around since 1963 ( says Wiki ) .I think you 've got an accidental transposition here... According to the SSA [ ssa.gov ] , the first card was issued in 1936 , not 1963 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Social Security Numbers have been around since 1963 (says Wiki).I think you've got an accidental transposition here...  According to the SSA [ssa.gov], the first card was issued in 1936, not 1963.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601999</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601781</id>
	<title>Re:Social Security Numbers As Identifiers</title>
	<author>Your.Master</author>
	<datestamp>1246885380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The US government is responsible for Social Security Numbers, yes.  If the security of that system is vulnerable to social engineering, then it should take reasonable steps to eliminate that security hole.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The US government is responsible for Social Security Numbers , yes .
If the security of that system is vulnerable to social engineering , then it should take reasonable steps to eliminate that security hole .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The US government is responsible for Social Security Numbers, yes.
If the security of that system is vulnerable to social engineering, then it should take reasonable steps to eliminate that security hole.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28606589</id>
	<title>three additive solutions</title>
	<author>circletimessquare</author>
	<datestamp>1246974840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1. make ssn's alphanumeric. this keeps it down to 9 letters/ numbers that you can remember. it also makes it backwards compatible so you don't have to issue everyone new SSNs. make it so there is no relationship whatsoever between birth place/ date/ name and SSN. (10 numbers + 26 letters)^9 = 101,559,956,668,416. 101.5 trillion is a nice enough space, and certainly better than the current 1 billion. you may even have idiots requesting vanity SSNs like vanity license plates. i reserve FUK-YU-IRS1</p><p>2. issue a password along with the SSN. now you have security at least as robust as something like gmail. not ironclad security, but you're never going to get that level with SSNs, and you are not introducing a system too cumbersome for you average joe, since he is already used to this security model. websites that "require" SSN can have authentication done a la openID: SSN+password goes to the government's server, and the government's server gives a thumbs up/ thumbs down before the requesting website proceeds with processing. limit, of course, the websites that can request such authentication to a white list (state dmvs, medicaid, student loan sites, etc.). all legacy application processes that require you to write down your SSN on a piece of paper: do away with it. we are at the point where the government can require all use of SSNs to be done via HTTPS only. you can get that on celphones nowadays. the government can set the standard, and the standard is not difficult to meet, even in the  municipal office of red lodge montana or on the crabbing boat in alaska when you apply for that fishing boat job</p><p>3. make it a lot easier to get a new SSN/ password. compromise will happen, or at least suspected compromise. for peace of mind, make it so individuals can generate a new SSN/ password easily and quickly and without red tape, as easy as getting a new email account</p><p>none of this is very difficult or groundbreaking</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1. make ssn 's alphanumeric .
this keeps it down to 9 letters/ numbers that you can remember .
it also makes it backwards compatible so you do n't have to issue everyone new SSNs .
make it so there is no relationship whatsoever between birth place/ date/ name and SSN .
( 10 numbers + 26 letters ) ^ 9 = 101,559,956,668,416 .
101.5 trillion is a nice enough space , and certainly better than the current 1 billion .
you may even have idiots requesting vanity SSNs like vanity license plates .
i reserve FUK-YU-IRS12 .
issue a password along with the SSN .
now you have security at least as robust as something like gmail .
not ironclad security , but you 're never going to get that level with SSNs , and you are not introducing a system too cumbersome for you average joe , since he is already used to this security model .
websites that " require " SSN can have authentication done a la openID : SSN + password goes to the government 's server , and the government 's server gives a thumbs up/ thumbs down before the requesting website proceeds with processing .
limit , of course , the websites that can request such authentication to a white list ( state dmvs , medicaid , student loan sites , etc. ) .
all legacy application processes that require you to write down your SSN on a piece of paper : do away with it .
we are at the point where the government can require all use of SSNs to be done via HTTPS only .
you can get that on celphones nowadays .
the government can set the standard , and the standard is not difficult to meet , even in the municipal office of red lodge montana or on the crabbing boat in alaska when you apply for that fishing boat job3 .
make it a lot easier to get a new SSN/ password .
compromise will happen , or at least suspected compromise .
for peace of mind , make it so individuals can generate a new SSN/ password easily and quickly and without red tape , as easy as getting a new email accountnone of this is very difficult or groundbreaking</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1. make ssn's alphanumeric.
this keeps it down to 9 letters/ numbers that you can remember.
it also makes it backwards compatible so you don't have to issue everyone new SSNs.
make it so there is no relationship whatsoever between birth place/ date/ name and SSN.
(10 numbers + 26 letters)^9 = 101,559,956,668,416.
101.5 trillion is a nice enough space, and certainly better than the current 1 billion.
you may even have idiots requesting vanity SSNs like vanity license plates.
i reserve FUK-YU-IRS12.
issue a password along with the SSN.
now you have security at least as robust as something like gmail.
not ironclad security, but you're never going to get that level with SSNs, and you are not introducing a system too cumbersome for you average joe, since he is already used to this security model.
websites that "require" SSN can have authentication done a la openID: SSN+password goes to the government's server, and the government's server gives a thumbs up/ thumbs down before the requesting website proceeds with processing.
limit, of course, the websites that can request such authentication to a white list (state dmvs, medicaid, student loan sites, etc.).
all legacy application processes that require you to write down your SSN on a piece of paper: do away with it.
we are at the point where the government can require all use of SSNs to be done via HTTPS only.
you can get that on celphones nowadays.
the government can set the standard, and the standard is not difficult to meet, even in the  municipal office of red lodge montana or on the crabbing boat in alaska when you apply for that fishing boat job3.
make it a lot easier to get a new SSN/ password.
compromise will happen, or at least suspected compromise.
for peace of mind, make it so individuals can generate a new SSN/ password easily and quickly and without red tape, as easy as getting a new email accountnone of this is very difficult or groundbreaking</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602365</id>
	<title>Re:Hardly news</title>
	<author>interkin3tic</author>
	<datestamp>1246888680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not news to anyone who knows how SSN assignment works.</p></div><p>Yes it is.  Knowing it's theoretically possible to figure it out is one thing.  Someone actually demonstrating it can be done with high success rate is another.  And it's news that matters because maybe this will force some change on the issue, dispels the illusion that it's a super secret identifying code that only you and X large organization knows.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...and maybe there will be a pony waiting for me at home...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not news to anyone who knows how SSN assignment works.Yes it is .
Knowing it 's theoretically possible to figure it out is one thing .
Someone actually demonstrating it can be done with high success rate is another .
And it 's news that matters because maybe this will force some change on the issue , dispels the illusion that it 's a super secret identifying code that only you and X large organization knows .
...and maybe there will be a pony waiting for me at home.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not news to anyone who knows how SSN assignment works.Yes it is.
Knowing it's theoretically possible to figure it out is one thing.
Someone actually demonstrating it can be done with high success rate is another.
And it's news that matters because maybe this will force some change on the issue, dispels the illusion that it's a super secret identifying code that only you and X large organization knows.
...and maybe there will be a pony waiting for me at home...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601287</id>
	<title>Why guess?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246882860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Who needs to guess when it's so easy to get someone to just give you their social security number if you just present a vaguely legitimate reason? For instance, I could pretend to be hiring people for a new business I am opening. Pretty much every application I've ever filled out has asked for a social security number.<br> <br>I could also see this technique being combined for some nasty phishing methods. Set up a fake credit check website, ask for their date of birth, the security question is their place of birth, and the last four digits of their social security number is their pin number. Using the technique of these researchers, you can guess a significant portion of people's SS numbers. 40\% is probably a huge number for phishing, where most people avoid them, but by shear volume enough get caught to make money off it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who needs to guess when it 's so easy to get someone to just give you their social security number if you just present a vaguely legitimate reason ?
For instance , I could pretend to be hiring people for a new business I am opening .
Pretty much every application I 've ever filled out has asked for a social security number .
I could also see this technique being combined for some nasty phishing methods .
Set up a fake credit check website , ask for their date of birth , the security question is their place of birth , and the last four digits of their social security number is their pin number .
Using the technique of these researchers , you can guess a significant portion of people 's SS numbers .
40 \ % is probably a huge number for phishing , where most people avoid them , but by shear volume enough get caught to make money off it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who needs to guess when it's so easy to get someone to just give you their social security number if you just present a vaguely legitimate reason?
For instance, I could pretend to be hiring people for a new business I am opening.
Pretty much every application I've ever filled out has asked for a social security number.
I could also see this technique being combined for some nasty phishing methods.
Set up a fake credit check website, ask for their date of birth, the security question is their place of birth, and the last four digits of their social security number is their pin number.
Using the technique of these researchers, you can guess a significant portion of people's SS numbers.
40\% is probably a huge number for phishing, where most people avoid them, but by shear volume enough get caught to make money off it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601711</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>RomulusNR</author>
	<datestamp>1246884960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Consider that simply knowing what credit card you have (and from what bank, etc.) can often nail anywhere from the first 1 to 6 digits (depending on details), plus one receipt holding the last 4 digits, covers more than half the number leaving 6 unknown. The final digit reduces the possibilities by roughly 90\%.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Consider that simply knowing what credit card you have ( and from what bank , etc .
) can often nail anywhere from the first 1 to 6 digits ( depending on details ) , plus one receipt holding the last 4 digits , covers more than half the number leaving 6 unknown .
The final digit reduces the possibilities by roughly 90 \ % .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Consider that simply knowing what credit card you have (and from what bank, etc.
) can often nail anywhere from the first 1 to 6 digits (depending on details), plus one receipt holding the last 4 digits, covers more than half the number leaving 6 unknown.
The final digit reduces the possibilities by roughly 90\%.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602037</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is not that SSNs are easy to guess</title>
	<author>izomiac</author>
	<datestamp>1246886700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or they could just remind people that they aren't secret, and post a public database of everyone's name/SSN online.  No legislation necessary, and businesses don't have to switch their software that (foolishly?) uses SSNs as ID numbers.  <br>
&nbsp; <br>Actually, come to think of it, the government isn't the only one who could do this.  A cracker or disgruntled employee of a large company could effectively make this happen.  I'm half surprised that it hasn't already...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or they could just remind people that they are n't secret , and post a public database of everyone 's name/SSN online .
No legislation necessary , and businesses do n't have to switch their software that ( foolishly ?
) uses SSNs as ID numbers .
  Actually , come to think of it , the government is n't the only one who could do this .
A cracker or disgruntled employee of a large company could effectively make this happen .
I 'm half surprised that it has n't already.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or they could just remind people that they aren't secret, and post a public database of everyone's name/SSN online.
No legislation necessary, and businesses don't have to switch their software that (foolishly?
) uses SSNs as ID numbers.
  Actually, come to think of it, the government isn't the only one who could do this.
A cracker or disgruntled employee of a large company could effectively make this happen.
I'm half surprised that it hasn't already...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601409</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602379</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>dbialac</author>
	<datestamp>1246888800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well the thing is the article itself is a bit misleading.  It didn't take a study to find that you can predict the first 5 digits with 44\% accuracy -- it was already a known factor.  In fact, the less populous a state, the more likely they are to get it right.  In smaller states (population-wise) such as the Dakotas, there may only be one prefix assigned to the state and with the second set of numbers being sequential, that 44\% accuracy goes up very close to 100\%.  This is why the government has always told the private sector it was a bad idea.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well the thing is the article itself is a bit misleading .
It did n't take a study to find that you can predict the first 5 digits with 44 \ % accuracy -- it was already a known factor .
In fact , the less populous a state , the more likely they are to get it right .
In smaller states ( population-wise ) such as the Dakotas , there may only be one prefix assigned to the state and with the second set of numbers being sequential , that 44 \ % accuracy goes up very close to 100 \ % .
This is why the government has always told the private sector it was a bad idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well the thing is the article itself is a bit misleading.
It didn't take a study to find that you can predict the first 5 digits with 44\% accuracy -- it was already a known factor.
In fact, the less populous a state, the more likely they are to get it right.
In smaller states (population-wise) such as the Dakotas, there may only be one prefix assigned to the state and with the second set of numbers being sequential, that 44\% accuracy goes up very close to 100\%.
This is why the government has always told the private sector it was a bad idea.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28603437</id>
	<title>123-456-7890</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246896960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, it's the came as the combination on my luggage.  No, the government won't issue a new one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , it 's the came as the combination on my luggage .
No , the government wo n't issue a new one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, it's the came as the combination on my luggage.
No, the government won't issue a new one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28609343</id>
	<title>They're just discovering this now?</title>
	<author>ggendel</author>
	<datestamp>1246986180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've known a "mentalist" that part of his act was to reveal a person's SSN, which he did with amazing accuracy. He's been doing this trick for over 25 years.</p><p>He uses a formula from a person's birthplace and age to get most of the digits.  He used other cues for the remaining digits, but I'm fuzzy about this process.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've known a " mentalist " that part of his act was to reveal a person 's SSN , which he did with amazing accuracy .
He 's been doing this trick for over 25 years.He uses a formula from a person 's birthplace and age to get most of the digits .
He used other cues for the remaining digits , but I 'm fuzzy about this process .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've known a "mentalist" that part of his act was to reveal a person's SSN, which he did with amazing accuracy.
He's been doing this trick for over 25 years.He uses a formula from a person's birthplace and age to get most of the digits.
He used other cues for the remaining digits, but I'm fuzzy about this process.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28612209</id>
	<title>No need to guess</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246997280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Mine is 078-05-1120.</p><p>Knock yourself out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Mine is 078-05-1120.Knock yourself out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Mine is 078-05-1120.Knock yourself out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601501</id>
	<title>good thing I was born in 1987</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246883940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They'll never be able to figure out my SSN. 754-6523. No pattern to that one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They 'll never be able to figure out my SSN .
754-6523. No pattern to that one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They'll never be able to figure out my SSN.
754-6523. No pattern to that one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602121</id>
	<title>Universal Identifier != universal authentication</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246887300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The SSN is a perfectly fine choice as a universal identifier. However, it is a lousy choice as a universal password. That is what most institutions have used it as. A universal identifier and password at the same time. Identification, Authentication, and Authorization are in fact separate activities and require distinctly separate systems.</p><p>(Why are people so stupid about this stuff? it's so simple.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The SSN is a perfectly fine choice as a universal identifier .
However , it is a lousy choice as a universal password .
That is what most institutions have used it as .
A universal identifier and password at the same time .
Identification , Authentication , and Authorization are in fact separate activities and require distinctly separate systems .
( Why are people so stupid about this stuff ?
it 's so simple .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The SSN is a perfectly fine choice as a universal identifier.
However, it is a lousy choice as a universal password.
That is what most institutions have used it as.
A universal identifier and password at the same time.
Identification, Authentication, and Authorization are in fact separate activities and require distinctly separate systems.
(Why are people so stupid about this stuff?
it's so simple.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601673</id>
	<title>Re:Social Security Numbers As Identifiers</title>
	<author>The Grim Reefer2</author>
	<datestamp>1246884840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>When I was young, the back of my social security card has a notice: "Not to be used for identification purposes" (or something similar).  When I lost my original card and had to get a replacement, the notice was missing.  </p></div><p>I still have my original, and it does state it. I always assumed that it was still the case, I guess spammers have a better lobby than we thought.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p><p>
&nbsp; </p><p><div class="quote"><p>Our government is <b>solely</b> to blame for allowing the private sector to use social security numbers as identifiers.  Congress has had an overabundance of time to pass laws criminalizing the use of social security numbers by the private sector.  In my opinion, Congress has been criminally negligent in allowing this to continue for this long.</p></div><p>I agree, but I'd like to know how you plan to punish them. Obviously voting them out of office hasn't worked out so well. Besides, there are probably many more injustices that are far worse that they should be held accountable for.</p><p>
&nbsp; </p><p><div class="quote"><p>Social security numbers should be used for one, and only one, purpose: to link an individual to social security benefits.  Any other use should be a criminal offense.</p></div><p>I've always refused to give out my social security number other than after I've been hired by an employer. I've lived in several states over the years and many used to use your social security number as your drivers license number. I never understood why people would choose to use it when the option to not do so was offered. Usually the reason was an excuse of pure laziness, "I don't want to have to remember another number". I also remember when businesses would try to claim that you were required to write you social on a check for them to accept it as payment.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I was young , the back of my social security card has a notice : " Not to be used for identification purposes " ( or something similar ) .
When I lost my original card and had to get a replacement , the notice was missing .
I still have my original , and it does state it .
I always assumed that it was still the case , I guess spammers have a better lobby than we thought .
; - )   Our government is solely to blame for allowing the private sector to use social security numbers as identifiers .
Congress has had an overabundance of time to pass laws criminalizing the use of social security numbers by the private sector .
In my opinion , Congress has been criminally negligent in allowing this to continue for this long.I agree , but I 'd like to know how you plan to punish them .
Obviously voting them out of office has n't worked out so well .
Besides , there are probably many more injustices that are far worse that they should be held accountable for .
  Social security numbers should be used for one , and only one , purpose : to link an individual to social security benefits .
Any other use should be a criminal offense.I 've always refused to give out my social security number other than after I 've been hired by an employer .
I 've lived in several states over the years and many used to use your social security number as your drivers license number .
I never understood why people would choose to use it when the option to not do so was offered .
Usually the reason was an excuse of pure laziness , " I do n't want to have to remember another number " .
I also remember when businesses would try to claim that you were required to write you social on a check for them to accept it as payment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I was young, the back of my social security card has a notice: "Not to be used for identification purposes" (or something similar).
When I lost my original card and had to get a replacement, the notice was missing.
I still have my original, and it does state it.
I always assumed that it was still the case, I guess spammers have a better lobby than we thought.
;-)
  Our government is solely to blame for allowing the private sector to use social security numbers as identifiers.
Congress has had an overabundance of time to pass laws criminalizing the use of social security numbers by the private sector.
In my opinion, Congress has been criminally negligent in allowing this to continue for this long.I agree, but I'd like to know how you plan to punish them.
Obviously voting them out of office hasn't worked out so well.
Besides, there are probably many more injustices that are far worse that they should be held accountable for.
  Social security numbers should be used for one, and only one, purpose: to link an individual to social security benefits.
Any other use should be a criminal offense.I've always refused to give out my social security number other than after I've been hired by an employer.
I've lived in several states over the years and many used to use your social security number as your drivers license number.
I never understood why people would choose to use it when the option to not do so was offered.
Usually the reason was an excuse of pure laziness, "I don't want to have to remember another number".
I also remember when businesses would try to claim that you were required to write you social on a check for them to accept it as payment.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604365</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246906560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The government says not to use your SSN for indentification...but you can't get a bank account, car loan, mortgage, student loan, go to school even, etc. For fooksake, your SSN is everywhere out there. The moronic government is just covering their collective arses by making that statement.</p><p>Two words..."Life Lock"....it sucks to have to pay for it but protecting your SSN and identity is super important.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The government says not to use your SSN for indentification...but you ca n't get a bank account , car loan , mortgage , student loan , go to school even , etc .
For fooksake , your SSN is everywhere out there .
The moronic government is just covering their collective arses by making that statement.Two words... " Life Lock " ....it sucks to have to pay for it but protecting your SSN and identity is super important .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The government says not to use your SSN for indentification...but you can't get a bank account, car loan, mortgage, student loan, go to school even, etc.
For fooksake, your SSN is everywhere out there.
The moronic government is just covering their collective arses by making that statement.Two words..."Life Lock"....it sucks to have to pay for it but protecting your SSN and identity is super important.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601439</id>
	<title>That is the problem when using SSN as ID</title>
	<author>dunkelfalke</author>
	<datestamp>1246883580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you use just a number for identification, it will be grossly misused. It is crazy to oppose a real ID card but use a much weaker (in terms of security) SSN as identification means and suddenly a baseless fear of certain forms of identification opens the way to very bad forms of identity theft.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you use just a number for identification , it will be grossly misused .
It is crazy to oppose a real ID card but use a much weaker ( in terms of security ) SSN as identification means and suddenly a baseless fear of certain forms of identification opens the way to very bad forms of identity theft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you use just a number for identification, it will be grossly misused.
It is crazy to oppose a real ID card but use a much weaker (in terms of security) SSN as identification means and suddenly a baseless fear of certain forms of identification opens the way to very bad forms of identity theft.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602091</id>
	<title>No...</title>
	<author>Culture20</author>
	<datestamp>1246887060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The nation's Social Security numbering scheme has left millions of citizens vulnerable to privacy breaches</p></div><p>No, Ubiquitous use of SSNs as a "secret" for anything beyond Social Security has left millions of citizens vulnerable to privacy breaches.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The nation 's Social Security numbering scheme has left millions of citizens vulnerable to privacy breachesNo , Ubiquitous use of SSNs as a " secret " for anything beyond Social Security has left millions of citizens vulnerable to privacy breaches .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The nation's Social Security numbering scheme has left millions of citizens vulnerable to privacy breachesNo, Ubiquitous use of SSNs as a "secret" for anything beyond Social Security has left millions of citizens vulnerable to privacy breaches.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604013</id>
	<title>Who needs to guess</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246901880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Working for a department store (silly store cards),  you'd be surprised how many people are just ready and willing to tell me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Working for a department store ( silly store cards ) , you 'd be surprised how many people are just ready and willing to tell me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Working for a department store (silly store cards),  you'd be surprised how many people are just ready and willing to tell me.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28608283</id>
	<title>Re:Social Security Numbers As Identifiers</title>
	<author>Biswalt</author>
	<datestamp>1246982040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I disagree because they are basically interchangeable with other known data about a person like when and where they were born, so the trend is going to be toward more and more known SSN's, once you know one area-group-serial number the odds of guessing the other numbers in that same area-group combo (or zipcode) rise slightly, meaning that inevitably all social security numbers will be known.  So trying to make them secretive just won't work.  The problem is that the private sector wants to use them as a way of authenticating who people are; say we have Maribel Barnes of 123 Main St. Boise Id. 83702 or we could call her 518-83-0001.  The problem is the private sector  wants to use the number as a check to see that you're really you when making a change.  But as I've pointed out as you know more and more SSNs the chance of knowing other SSNs by default rises such that eventually as long as birth records remain intact and some known SSN database was kept you'd be able to eventually know everybody's SSN.  So asking Maribel to authenticate who she is with her SSN is kind of pointless because someone who has bothered to learn her place of birth and birth date already knows the first 5 digits of the SSN.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I disagree because they are basically interchangeable with other known data about a person like when and where they were born , so the trend is going to be toward more and more known SSN 's , once you know one area-group-serial number the odds of guessing the other numbers in that same area-group combo ( or zipcode ) rise slightly , meaning that inevitably all social security numbers will be known .
So trying to make them secretive just wo n't work .
The problem is that the private sector wants to use them as a way of authenticating who people are ; say we have Maribel Barnes of 123 Main St. Boise Id .
83702 or we could call her 518-83-0001 .
The problem is the private sector wants to use the number as a check to see that you 're really you when making a change .
But as I 've pointed out as you know more and more SSNs the chance of knowing other SSNs by default rises such that eventually as long as birth records remain intact and some known SSN database was kept you 'd be able to eventually know everybody 's SSN .
So asking Maribel to authenticate who she is with her SSN is kind of pointless because someone who has bothered to learn her place of birth and birth date already knows the first 5 digits of the SSN .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I disagree because they are basically interchangeable with other known data about a person like when and where they were born, so the trend is going to be toward more and more known SSN's, once you know one area-group-serial number the odds of guessing the other numbers in that same area-group combo (or zipcode) rise slightly, meaning that inevitably all social security numbers will be known.
So trying to make them secretive just won't work.
The problem is that the private sector wants to use them as a way of authenticating who people are; say we have Maribel Barnes of 123 Main St. Boise Id.
83702 or we could call her 518-83-0001.
The problem is the private sector  wants to use the number as a check to see that you're really you when making a change.
But as I've pointed out as you know more and more SSNs the chance of knowing other SSNs by default rises such that eventually as long as birth records remain intact and some known SSN database was kept you'd be able to eventually know everybody's SSN.
So asking Maribel to authenticate who she is with her SSN is kind of pointless because someone who has bothered to learn her place of birth and birth date already knows the first 5 digits of the SSN.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601533</id>
	<title>Re:Social Security Numbers As Identifiers</title>
	<author>Short Circuit</author>
	<datestamp>1246884120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In my opinion, Congress has been criminally negligent in allowing this to continue for this long.</p></div><p>Because Congress must pass laws to protect us from ourselves?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my opinion , Congress has been criminally negligent in allowing this to continue for this long.Because Congress must pass laws to protect us from ourselves ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my opinion, Congress has been criminally negligent in allowing this to continue for this long.Because Congress must pass laws to protect us from ourselves?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602577</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>muridae</author>
	<datestamp>1246890300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And since the last 4 digits of the credit card number are a check sum for the first 12, you can narrow it down a bit further. If you have the first 6 and last 4, finding the middle 6 could be pretty easy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And since the last 4 digits of the credit card number are a check sum for the first 12 , you can narrow it down a bit further .
If you have the first 6 and last 4 , finding the middle 6 could be pretty easy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And since the last 4 digits of the credit card number are a check sum for the first 12, you can narrow it down a bit further.
If you have the first 6 and last 4, finding the middle 6 could be pretty easy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601451</id>
	<title>Re:In other words</title>
	<author>CAIMLAS</author>
	<datestamp>1246883640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny, then, that employers put the least common numbers of your SSN on your pay check (as if it were 'randomized' in the same fashion as a credit card, which until fairly recently was pretty damn easy to fake/guess as well).</p><p>I wouldn't be surprised that, in states with lower populations/birth rates, the ease of guessing a person's SSN increases. I remember comparing/talking about SSN with friends in high school; the numbers of the (admittedly small) sample of local-born friends were sequentially matched to their order of birth.</p><p>I'd not be surprised that if you were to get a hold of birth records somewhere for such local areas, with a single SSN/name as a base point, you'd be able to figure out (to fairly high certainty) the specific SSN for quite a few people.</p><p>Likewise, you could probably figure out people's SSN in a deterministic fashion through process of limitation: guess a dozen people's SSNs, and after the 3 that came back positive, you'd have narrowed a smaller set to work with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny , then , that employers put the least common numbers of your SSN on your pay check ( as if it were 'randomized ' in the same fashion as a credit card , which until fairly recently was pretty damn easy to fake/guess as well ) .I would n't be surprised that , in states with lower populations/birth rates , the ease of guessing a person 's SSN increases .
I remember comparing/talking about SSN with friends in high school ; the numbers of the ( admittedly small ) sample of local-born friends were sequentially matched to their order of birth.I 'd not be surprised that if you were to get a hold of birth records somewhere for such local areas , with a single SSN/name as a base point , you 'd be able to figure out ( to fairly high certainty ) the specific SSN for quite a few people.Likewise , you could probably figure out people 's SSN in a deterministic fashion through process of limitation : guess a dozen people 's SSNs , and after the 3 that came back positive , you 'd have narrowed a smaller set to work with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny, then, that employers put the least common numbers of your SSN on your pay check (as if it were 'randomized' in the same fashion as a credit card, which until fairly recently was pretty damn easy to fake/guess as well).I wouldn't be surprised that, in states with lower populations/birth rates, the ease of guessing a person's SSN increases.
I remember comparing/talking about SSN with friends in high school; the numbers of the (admittedly small) sample of local-born friends were sequentially matched to their order of birth.I'd not be surprised that if you were to get a hold of birth records somewhere for such local areas, with a single SSN/name as a base point, you'd be able to figure out (to fairly high certainty) the specific SSN for quite a few people.Likewise, you could probably figure out people's SSN in a deterministic fashion through process of limitation: guess a dozen people's SSNs, and after the 3 that came back positive, you'd have narrowed a smaller set to work with.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601279</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602835</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>daath93</author>
	<datestamp>1246892700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I work for social security, its not impossible to change your number, you just have to actually SHOW that you tried to clear up your problem. This is required for many reasons, not the least of which is some freaky people actually rent their social security number out to illegal immigrants, then expect us to replace their number when their identity is compromised.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I work for social security , its not impossible to change your number , you just have to actually SHOW that you tried to clear up your problem .
This is required for many reasons , not the least of which is some freaky people actually rent their social security number out to illegal immigrants , then expect us to replace their number when their identity is compromised .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work for social security, its not impossible to change your number, you just have to actually SHOW that you tried to clear up your problem.
This is required for many reasons, not the least of which is some freaky people actually rent their social security number out to illegal immigrants, then expect us to replace their number when their identity is compromised.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601285</id>
	<title>Naught</title>
	<author>sexconker</author>
	<datestamp>1246882800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Two.</p><p>Damn Roosevelt!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Two.Damn Roosevelt !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Naught Two.Damn Roosevelt!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602615</id>
	<title>Impressive, not *too* surprised</title>
	<author>rnelsonee</author>
	<datestamp>1246890720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Okay, guessing all 9 digits is good, so I'm not downplaying the success of this research. My sister and I were born 3 minutes apart and our SSNs are 20 values apart.</p><p>But the first 5 have always been not too difficult for some areas as it's based on date and location of birth (or date of issue, but there's obviously a correlation between the two). This makes it invaluable as a social hacking tool.</p><p>Just like the easy-to-guess <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundex#Rules" title="wikipedia.org">Soundex</a> [wikipedia.org] numbers found on many state licenses, as well as the fact that <a href="http://www.merriampark.com/anatomycc.htm" title="merriampark.com">credit cards use a system</a> [merriampark.com] for numbering, simply correctly identifying the first few digits of a number can sometimes gain someone's trust ("Okay, I'm going to verify the first 4 digits of your Driver's License, but I won't disclose the whole thing over the phone. After I've verified this information, I will need...")</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Okay , guessing all 9 digits is good , so I 'm not downplaying the success of this research .
My sister and I were born 3 minutes apart and our SSNs are 20 values apart.But the first 5 have always been not too difficult for some areas as it 's based on date and location of birth ( or date of issue , but there 's obviously a correlation between the two ) .
This makes it invaluable as a social hacking tool.Just like the easy-to-guess Soundex [ wikipedia.org ] numbers found on many state licenses , as well as the fact that credit cards use a system [ merriampark.com ] for numbering , simply correctly identifying the first few digits of a number can sometimes gain someone 's trust ( " Okay , I 'm going to verify the first 4 digits of your Driver 's License , but I wo n't disclose the whole thing over the phone .
After I 've verified this information , I will need... " )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Okay, guessing all 9 digits is good, so I'm not downplaying the success of this research.
My sister and I were born 3 minutes apart and our SSNs are 20 values apart.But the first 5 have always been not too difficult for some areas as it's based on date and location of birth (or date of issue, but there's obviously a correlation between the two).
This makes it invaluable as a social hacking tool.Just like the easy-to-guess Soundex [wikipedia.org] numbers found on many state licenses, as well as the fact that credit cards use a system [merriampark.com] for numbering, simply correctly identifying the first few digits of a number can sometimes gain someone's trust ("Okay, I'm going to verify the first 4 digits of your Driver's License, but I won't disclose the whole thing over the phone.
After I've verified this information, I will need...")</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602479</id>
	<title>Re:Duh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246889460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Twins? We have fraternal twins,. and they have sequential numbers as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Twins ?
We have fraternal twins, .
and they have sequential numbers as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Twins?
We have fraternal twins,.
and they have sequential numbers as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601265</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602825</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246892580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>and now, some of us will have two!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>and now , some of us will have two !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and now, some of us will have two!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601251</id>
	<title>good thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246882560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>they only put the last 4 digits on my paycheck!</htmltext>
<tokenext>they only put the last 4 digits on my paycheck !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they only put the last 4 digits on my paycheck!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602469</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>pearl298</author>
	<datestamp>1246889400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let me see, the FIRST 5 can be guessed by knowing place and date of birht and the LAST 4 can be overheard or read form paychecks etc.</p><p>Gee I think that gives out the whole err 5+4 = 9(!) digits doesn't it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let me see , the FIRST 5 can be guessed by knowing place and date of birht and the LAST 4 can be overheard or read form paychecks etc.Gee I think that gives out the whole err 5 + 4 = 9 ( !
) digits does n't it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let me see, the FIRST 5 can be guessed by knowing place and date of birht and the LAST 4 can be overheard or read form paychecks etc.Gee I think that gives out the whole err 5+4 = 9(!
) digits doesn't it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604877</id>
	<title>Re:good thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246999320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OLD information in their "study." This came into print during the 80's, again in the 90's, on the web in the late 90's, and again in the mid 2000's. Why does this keep coming up as "NEW" and "dangerous" when it's just as OLD and DANGEROUS as it always was?</p><p>The last four digits is always enough information for a determined perp. Even without 4 ending digits there are enough ways to request "verification" to brute force the last 9,999 variations.</p><p>SSN's are not to be used for identification purposes, but they are. Just stop giving them (any digits) to ANYONE that asks unless it is the Social Security Administration, OR the IRS. Not even a drivers license application REQUIRES the information, that is a REQUEST which the states must *attempt* to collect the information per Federal code. Funny how that federal code put into effect during the Cliton administration is found in section 6 6 6 isn't it? Refuse the mark! Live free!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OLD information in their " study .
" This came into print during the 80 's , again in the 90 's , on the web in the late 90 's , and again in the mid 2000 's .
Why does this keep coming up as " NEW " and " dangerous " when it 's just as OLD and DANGEROUS as it always was ? The last four digits is always enough information for a determined perp .
Even without 4 ending digits there are enough ways to request " verification " to brute force the last 9,999 variations.SSN 's are not to be used for identification purposes , but they are .
Just stop giving them ( any digits ) to ANYONE that asks unless it is the Social Security Administration , OR the IRS .
Not even a drivers license application REQUIRES the information , that is a REQUEST which the states must * attempt * to collect the information per Federal code .
Funny how that federal code put into effect during the Cliton administration is found in section 6 6 6 is n't it ?
Refuse the mark !
Live free !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OLD information in their "study.
" This came into print during the 80's, again in the 90's, on the web in the late 90's, and again in the mid 2000's.
Why does this keep coming up as "NEW" and "dangerous" when it's just as OLD and DANGEROUS as it always was?The last four digits is always enough information for a determined perp.
Even without 4 ending digits there are enough ways to request "verification" to brute force the last 9,999 variations.SSN's are not to be used for identification purposes, but they are.
Just stop giving them (any digits) to ANYONE that asks unless it is the Social Security Administration, OR the IRS.
Not even a drivers license application REQUIRES the information, that is a REQUEST which the states must *attempt* to collect the information per Federal code.
Funny how that federal code put into effect during the Cliton administration is found in section 6 6 6 isn't it?
Refuse the mark!
Live free!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28602955</id>
	<title>I Thought Of This 20 Years Ago!</title>
	<author>tunapez</author>
	<datestamp>1246893600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I learned my father's # was eerily similar to mine. We were born in the same hospital some 25 years apart, that was about the time I wondered how hard it would be to do what these guys did.</p><p>Obviously, I didn't think too hard about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I learned my father 's # was eerily similar to mine .
We were born in the same hospital some 25 years apart , that was about the time I wondered how hard it would be to do what these guys did.Obviously , I did n't think too hard about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I learned my father's # was eerily similar to mine.
We were born in the same hospital some 25 years apart, that was about the time I wondered how hard it would be to do what these guys did.Obviously, I didn't think too hard about it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28615381</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is not that SSNs are easy to guess</title>
	<author>plnix0</author>
	<datestamp>1246967700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The government should pick a date, say 5 years from now, and state that on that date they will publish the full list of Name &amp; SSN data. Everyone using SSN as a shared secret must fix their databases.</p></div><p>Even if they only published a list of names, and omitted the SSNs, that would be an act of immense evil.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The government should pick a date , say 5 years from now , and state that on that date they will publish the full list of Name &amp; SSN data .
Everyone using SSN as a shared secret must fix their databases.Even if they only published a list of names , and omitted the SSNs , that would be an act of immense evil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The government should pick a date, say 5 years from now, and state that on that date they will publish the full list of Name &amp; SSN data.
Everyone using SSN as a shared secret must fix their databases.Even if they only published a list of names, and omitted the SSNs, that would be an act of immense evil.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601979</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601519</id>
	<title>I call bullshit.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246884000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>A Social Security Administration spokesman said the government has long cautioned the private sector against using a social security number as a personal identifier, even as it insists 'there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person's Social Security Number.'</i></p><p>Yeah, maybe with a wink and a nod. Social Security cards used to say "Not to be used for Identification" or words to that effect written on them in bright red ink. If the Federal Government was serious about not having the private sector use the number for identification purposes, they'd ban the practice.</p><p>LK</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A Social Security Administration spokesman said the government has long cautioned the private sector against using a social security number as a personal identifier , even as it insists 'there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person 's Social Security Number .
'Yeah , maybe with a wink and a nod .
Social Security cards used to say " Not to be used for Identification " or words to that effect written on them in bright red ink .
If the Federal Government was serious about not having the private sector use the number for identification purposes , they 'd ban the practice.LK</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A Social Security Administration spokesman said the government has long cautioned the private sector against using a social security number as a personal identifier, even as it insists 'there is no fool-proof method for predicting a person's Social Security Number.
'Yeah, maybe with a wink and a nod.
Social Security cards used to say "Not to be used for Identification" or words to that effect written on them in bright red ink.
If the Federal Government was serious about not having the private sector use the number for identification purposes, they'd ban the practice.LK</sentencetext>
</comment>
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601979
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28615381
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-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601533
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28601781
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_06_2215218.28604327
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