<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_04_0235205</id>
	<title>Generating Power From Ocean Buoys and Kites</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1246730940000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>cheezitmike writes <i>"Researchers at Oregon State University are testing a new type of wave-energy converter to <a href="http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Catching-a-Wave.html">generate electricity from ocean waves</a>:  'Even when the ocean seems calm, swells are moving water up and down sufficiently to generate electricity. ... For decades the challenge has been to build a device that can withstand monster waves and gale-force winds, not to mention corrosive saltwater, seaweed, floating debris and curious marine mammals. ... In the most recent prototypes, a thick coil of copper wire is inside the first component, which is anchored to the seafloor. The second component is a magnet attached to a float that moves up and down freely with the waves. As the magnet is heaved by the waves, its magnetic field moves along the stationary coil of copper wire. This motion induces a current in the wire &mdash; electricity.'"</i>
Meanwhile, researchers at Stanford are working to design <a href="http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&amp;articleId=9135117">"turbine kites" that operate at 30,000 feet</a>, where air currents flow much faster than they do close to the ground. Ken Caldeira, a Stanford associate professor, said, "If you tapped into 1\% of the power in high-altitude winds, that would be enough to continuously power all civilization."</htmltext>
<tokenext>cheezitmike writes " Researchers at Oregon State University are testing a new type of wave-energy converter to generate electricity from ocean waves : 'Even when the ocean seems calm , swells are moving water up and down sufficiently to generate electricity .
... For decades the challenge has been to build a device that can withstand monster waves and gale-force winds , not to mention corrosive saltwater , seaweed , floating debris and curious marine mammals .
... In the most recent prototypes , a thick coil of copper wire is inside the first component , which is anchored to the seafloor .
The second component is a magnet attached to a float that moves up and down freely with the waves .
As the magnet is heaved by the waves , its magnetic field moves along the stationary coil of copper wire .
This motion induces a current in the wire    electricity .
' " Meanwhile , researchers at Stanford are working to design " turbine kites " that operate at 30,000 feet , where air currents flow much faster than they do close to the ground .
Ken Caldeira , a Stanford associate professor , said , " If you tapped into 1 \ % of the power in high-altitude winds , that would be enough to continuously power all civilization .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>cheezitmike writes "Researchers at Oregon State University are testing a new type of wave-energy converter to generate electricity from ocean waves:  'Even when the ocean seems calm, swells are moving water up and down sufficiently to generate electricity.
... For decades the challenge has been to build a device that can withstand monster waves and gale-force winds, not to mention corrosive saltwater, seaweed, floating debris and curious marine mammals.
... In the most recent prototypes, a thick coil of copper wire is inside the first component, which is anchored to the seafloor.
The second component is a magnet attached to a float that moves up and down freely with the waves.
As the magnet is heaved by the waves, its magnetic field moves along the stationary coil of copper wire.
This motion induces a current in the wire — electricity.
'"
Meanwhile, researchers at Stanford are working to design "turbine kites" that operate at 30,000 feet, where air currents flow much faster than they do close to the ground.
Ken Caldeira, a Stanford associate professor, said, "If you tapped into 1\% of the power in high-altitude winds, that would be enough to continuously power all civilization.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578369</id>
	<title>Stop the Irony</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246738020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here in Oregon the greenies have been fighting against the energy buoys for a while. They are concerned that electromagnetic cables on the ocean floor could affect sea life, and that buoys could interfere with whale and fish migration.

We've also been tearing down hydroelectric dams because it disturbs the salmon.

We got Washington DC jacking up the price of non-enviro friendly electricity on one end and the greenies on the other end kicking the green energy in the balls.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here in Oregon the greenies have been fighting against the energy buoys for a while .
They are concerned that electromagnetic cables on the ocean floor could affect sea life , and that buoys could interfere with whale and fish migration .
We 've also been tearing down hydroelectric dams because it disturbs the salmon .
We got Washington DC jacking up the price of non-enviro friendly electricity on one end and the greenies on the other end kicking the green energy in the balls .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here in Oregon the greenies have been fighting against the energy buoys for a while.
They are concerned that electromagnetic cables on the ocean floor could affect sea life, and that buoys could interfere with whale and fish migration.
We've also been tearing down hydroelectric dams because it disturbs the salmon.
We got Washington DC jacking up the price of non-enviro friendly electricity on one end and the greenies on the other end kicking the green energy in the balls.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578313</id>
	<title>Nature's take</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246651080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nature itself uses tech. similar to solar panels (green leaves) to get the energy it needs, not the wind or waves.
<br> <br>
My bet is on more efficient solar panels, a solid state power collectors.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nature itself uses tech .
similar to solar panels ( green leaves ) to get the energy it needs , not the wind or waves .
My bet is on more efficient solar panels , a solid state power collectors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nature itself uses tech.
similar to solar panels (green leaves) to get the energy it needs, not the wind or waves.
My bet is on more efficient solar panels, a solid state power collectors.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28581115</id>
	<title>Re:1\% is such a small number</title>
	<author>binaryspiral</author>
	<datestamp>1246730880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Realistically though - you would never ever want all of the world's electricity production in one location or from one method.</p><p>Obvious political reasons - see Middle East OPEC Cartel for more information on this.</p><p>Power distribution nightmares - although super conducting main lines like they're using in New York are very promising.</p><p>Night / Day transitions - At night, the desert won't be generating anything.</p><p>SimCity Microwave Power is the only answer... and a great weapon to use if someone pisses you off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Realistically though - you would never ever want all of the world 's electricity production in one location or from one method.Obvious political reasons - see Middle East OPEC Cartel for more information on this.Power distribution nightmares - although super conducting main lines like they 're using in New York are very promising.Night / Day transitions - At night , the desert wo n't be generating anything.SimCity Microwave Power is the only answer... and a great weapon to use if someone pisses you off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Realistically though - you would never ever want all of the world's electricity production in one location or from one method.Obvious political reasons - see Middle East OPEC Cartel for more information on this.Power distribution nightmares - although super conducting main lines like they're using in New York are very promising.Night / Day transitions - At night, the desert won't be generating anything.SimCity Microwave Power is the only answer... and a great weapon to use if someone pisses you off.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578979</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579211</id>
	<title>Re:Stop the Irony</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1246710780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dams are some of the most ecologically disruptive creations of mankind. They are not, repeat <em>not</em> "green" power.</p><p>You could put paddlewheels all up and down every river not being used for transport (and some of those too) and generate hydro power without having to build megalithic dams, but humans seem to be addicted to centralization. There are benefits to be had from it for sure, but [large scale] dams are still bad.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dams are some of the most ecologically disruptive creations of mankind .
They are not , repeat not " green " power.You could put paddlewheels all up and down every river not being used for transport ( and some of those too ) and generate hydro power without having to build megalithic dams , but humans seem to be addicted to centralization .
There are benefits to be had from it for sure , but [ large scale ] dams are still bad .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dams are some of the most ecologically disruptive creations of mankind.
They are not, repeat not "green" power.You could put paddlewheels all up and down every river not being used for transport (and some of those too) and generate hydro power without having to build megalithic dams, but humans seem to be addicted to centralization.
There are benefits to be had from it for sure, but [large scale] dams are still bad.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578369</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578611</id>
	<title>Old news</title>
	<author>justinlee37</author>
	<datestamp>1246698600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I spent a year at Oregon State University back in 2006-2007. They were talking about the ocean wave generators back then; it seems to be the darling of the engineering department there.</p><p>Don't ever go there by the way. It's in a really small town with an annoying football culture and an annoying number of frat houses, filled with small-time criminals, bored cops, and very few permanent residents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I spent a year at Oregon State University back in 2006-2007 .
They were talking about the ocean wave generators back then ; it seems to be the darling of the engineering department there.Do n't ever go there by the way .
It 's in a really small town with an annoying football culture and an annoying number of frat houses , filled with small-time criminals , bored cops , and very few permanent residents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I spent a year at Oregon State University back in 2006-2007.
They were talking about the ocean wave generators back then; it seems to be the darling of the engineering department there.Don't ever go there by the way.
It's in a really small town with an annoying football culture and an annoying number of frat houses, filled with small-time criminals, bored cops, and very few permanent residents.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578765</id>
	<title>Pumping kite wind generator</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246701180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The simplest idea I've seen uses a kite on the end of a tether.  The tether is paid out, generating energy, and then pulled back in, requiring energy.  By changing the kite's angle of attack during the recovery phase, a net energy output can be obtained.</p><p>The energy output is supposed to be around 20kW per square metre... is there any reason why this wouldn't scale to 20GW for square-kilometre kites?</p><p>www.win.tue.nl/casa/meetings/special/ecmi08/pumping-kite.pdf</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The simplest idea I 've seen uses a kite on the end of a tether .
The tether is paid out , generating energy , and then pulled back in , requiring energy .
By changing the kite 's angle of attack during the recovery phase , a net energy output can be obtained.The energy output is supposed to be around 20kW per square metre... is there any reason why this would n't scale to 20GW for square-kilometre kites ? www.win.tue.nl/casa/meetings/special/ecmi08/pumping-kite.pdf</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The simplest idea I've seen uses a kite on the end of a tether.
The tether is paid out, generating energy, and then pulled back in, requiring energy.
By changing the kite's angle of attack during the recovery phase, a net energy output can be obtained.The energy output is supposed to be around 20kW per square metre... is there any reason why this wouldn't scale to 20GW for square-kilometre kites?www.win.tue.nl/casa/meetings/special/ecmi08/pumping-kite.pdf</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578461</id>
	<title>Good luck with that</title>
	<author>Spy Handler</author>
	<datestamp>1246739640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"If you tapped into 1\% of the power in high-altitude winds, that would be enough to continuously power all civilization."</p></div><p>

And if you tapped into 1\% of the power in the heat of the earth's core, that would be enough to power all of civilization on Zeti Reticuli, and if you tapped into 1\% of the solar output by building a tiny Dyson sphere that would be enough to power all of Known Space. But let's first ask ourselves, is it practical and cost-effective?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" If you tapped into 1 \ % of the power in high-altitude winds , that would be enough to continuously power all civilization .
" And if you tapped into 1 \ % of the power in the heat of the earth 's core , that would be enough to power all of civilization on Zeti Reticuli , and if you tapped into 1 \ % of the solar output by building a tiny Dyson sphere that would be enough to power all of Known Space .
But let 's first ask ourselves , is it practical and cost-effective ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"If you tapped into 1\% of the power in high-altitude winds, that would be enough to continuously power all civilization.
"

And if you tapped into 1\% of the power in the heat of the earth's core, that would be enough to power all of civilization on Zeti Reticuli, and if you tapped into 1\% of the solar output by building a tiny Dyson sphere that would be enough to power all of Known Space.
But let's first ask ourselves, is it practical and cost-effective?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28580303</id>
	<title>Re:Zap</title>
	<author>ILuvRamen</author>
	<datestamp>1246724100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>or an airplane just flew through one of the thousand kite lines and the fishies and airplane passengers get zapped!</htmltext>
<tokenext>or an airplane just flew through one of the thousand kite lines and the fishies and airplane passengers get zapped !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>or an airplane just flew through one of the thousand kite lines and the fishies and airplane passengers get zapped!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578161</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579015</id>
	<title>Re:Good luck with that</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246706880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Practical and cost effective?</p><p>Yes.</p><p>Most of earth's problems could be solved by having plentiful, cheap, easy, nearly-free energy.  Not enough food?  Grow-lights and mineral plants could fix that.  Not enough fresh water?  Purifiers would be easy to build as-needed along the coast.  Not enough diamonds?  Plenty of robots to mine them for you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Practical and cost effective ? Yes.Most of earth 's problems could be solved by having plentiful , cheap , easy , nearly-free energy .
Not enough food ?
Grow-lights and mineral plants could fix that .
Not enough fresh water ?
Purifiers would be easy to build as-needed along the coast .
Not enough diamonds ?
Plenty of robots to mine them for you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Practical and cost effective?Yes.Most of earth's problems could be solved by having plentiful, cheap, easy, nearly-free energy.
Not enough food?
Grow-lights and mineral plants could fix that.
Not enough fresh water?
Purifiers would be easy to build as-needed along the coast.
Not enough diamonds?
Plenty of robots to mine them for you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28580707</id>
	<title>How do get the energy from earth to Zeti Reticuli?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246727640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How do get the energy from earth to Zeti Reticuli?</p><p>I like your thinking but I don't think you're being practical or cost effective.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How do get the energy from earth to Zeti Reticuli ? I like your thinking but I do n't think you 're being practical or cost effective .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How do get the energy from earth to Zeti Reticuli?I like your thinking but I don't think you're being practical or cost effective.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579955</id>
	<title>Re:Stop the Irony</title>
	<author>MobyDisk</author>
	<datestamp>1246721100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sounds like a very green bunch: A combination of astroturf + money.</p><p>I suspect that the energy lobby is somewhere behind these bizarre anti-sustainability movements.  Maybe even convincing poor fools that they are really helping things out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like a very green bunch : A combination of astroturf + money.I suspect that the energy lobby is somewhere behind these bizarre anti-sustainability movements .
Maybe even convincing poor fools that they are really helping things out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like a very green bunch: A combination of astroturf + money.I suspect that the energy lobby is somewhere behind these bizarre anti-sustainability movements.
Maybe even convincing poor fools that they are really helping things out.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578369</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579119</id>
	<title>Re: Good subject</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246708740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Various ideas are tacking center thought of producing green energy here are books about producing <a href="http://www.ebooksresearch.com/alternative-fuel-and-energy-1.asp/" title="ebooksresearch.com" rel="nofollow"> alternative energy </a> [ebooksresearch.com] many guys trying to produce electricity or power for personal use&#226;&#166;.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Various ideas are tacking center thought of producing green energy here are books about producing alternative energy [ ebooksresearch.com ] many guys trying to produce electricity or power for personal use     .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Various ideas are tacking center thought of producing green energy here are books about producing  alternative energy  [ebooksresearch.com] many guys trying to produce electricity or power for personal useâ¦.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28588909</id>
	<title>Re:Nature's take</title>
	<author>Ann Coulter</author>
	<datestamp>1246791000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-dependent\_reactions" title="wikipedia.org">Light-dependent reactions</a> [wikipedia.org] in photosynthetic organisms involve light causing a transfer of electrons from chlorophyll molecules to the electron transport chain. Since electricity is simply energy in the form of charged particles, the transfer of electrons involved in photosynthesis is one way that nature uses photosynthesis to create electricity.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Light-dependent reactions [ wikipedia.org ] in photosynthetic organisms involve light causing a transfer of electrons from chlorophyll molecules to the electron transport chain .
Since electricity is simply energy in the form of charged particles , the transfer of electrons involved in photosynthesis is one way that nature uses photosynthesis to create electricity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Light-dependent reactions [wikipedia.org] in photosynthetic organisms involve light causing a transfer of electrons from chlorophyll molecules to the electron transport chain.
Since electricity is simply energy in the form of charged particles, the transfer of electrons involved in photosynthesis is one way that nature uses photosynthesis to create electricity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579287</id>
	<title>Good subject</title>
	<author>purevision</author>
	<datestamp>1246712460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Various ideas are tacking center thought of producing green energy here are books about producing <a href="ahref=" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.ebooksresearch.com/alternative-fuel-and-energy-1.asp</a> [slashdot.org]" target="\_blank"&gt; alternative energy  many guys trying to produce electricity or power for personal use&#226;&#166;.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Various ideas are tacking center thought of producing green energy here are books about producing http : //www.ebooksresearch.com/alternative-fuel-and-energy-1.asp [ slashdot.org ] " target = " \ _blank " &gt; alternative energy many guys trying to produce electricity or power for personal use     .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Various ideas are tacking center thought of producing green energy here are books about producing http://www.ebooksresearch.com/alternative-fuel-and-energy-1.asp [slashdot.org]" target="\_blank"&gt; alternative energy  many guys trying to produce electricity or power for personal useâ¦.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579327</id>
	<title>Why use all these wires ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246713120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I strikes me that in both these solutions, they are using a lot of vulnerable wiring to either transmit the current somewhere it can be used or to actually generate the current. Why not stick to the same principle as hydro-electric ? If you build 2 tall chimneys, one shorter than the other, and join them at the base via a turbine, the pressure difference between the two will turn the turbine. The higher the taller chimney, the greater the pressure difference. This works with or without a jet stream type phenomenon.<br> <br>Implement a similar scheme in the ocean, where either a deep underwater current or just the simple pressure difference will suck (or blow) water down from (or up to) a higher level, turning a turbine. The turbine can be onshore for easy maintenance and repair. Drop one end of a rigid pipe to the bottom of the Marianas trench and you will have a pressure difference of 1000 times sea level. I realise you wouldn't see the full 1000x pressure at sea level but  by gradually reducing the diameter of the pipe as it ascends you can maintain a considerable pressure difference. With both ends under water it creates a circuit with a turbine in the loop. You could even take the top end through a desalinisation plant for an agricultural or potable water supply. The pipe won't be crushed because the pressure at depth will be equalised inside and outside the pipe. The only problem might be crap being sucked into the pipe, but I'm sure there are technical solutions for that. Ocean currents are basically giant hydraulic systems anyway.<br> <br>Yes I know you still have to get the power to where it will be used, but the current situation isn't much different anyway. You already have power lines stretching hundreds of miles, you already have trans-continental oil and gas pipelines.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I strikes me that in both these solutions , they are using a lot of vulnerable wiring to either transmit the current somewhere it can be used or to actually generate the current .
Why not stick to the same principle as hydro-electric ?
If you build 2 tall chimneys , one shorter than the other , and join them at the base via a turbine , the pressure difference between the two will turn the turbine .
The higher the taller chimney , the greater the pressure difference .
This works with or without a jet stream type phenomenon .
Implement a similar scheme in the ocean , where either a deep underwater current or just the simple pressure difference will suck ( or blow ) water down from ( or up to ) a higher level , turning a turbine .
The turbine can be onshore for easy maintenance and repair .
Drop one end of a rigid pipe to the bottom of the Marianas trench and you will have a pressure difference of 1000 times sea level .
I realise you would n't see the full 1000x pressure at sea level but by gradually reducing the diameter of the pipe as it ascends you can maintain a considerable pressure difference .
With both ends under water it creates a circuit with a turbine in the loop .
You could even take the top end through a desalinisation plant for an agricultural or potable water supply .
The pipe wo n't be crushed because the pressure at depth will be equalised inside and outside the pipe .
The only problem might be crap being sucked into the pipe , but I 'm sure there are technical solutions for that .
Ocean currents are basically giant hydraulic systems anyway .
Yes I know you still have to get the power to where it will be used , but the current situation is n't much different anyway .
You already have power lines stretching hundreds of miles , you already have trans-continental oil and gas pipelines .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I strikes me that in both these solutions, they are using a lot of vulnerable wiring to either transmit the current somewhere it can be used or to actually generate the current.
Why not stick to the same principle as hydro-electric ?
If you build 2 tall chimneys, one shorter than the other, and join them at the base via a turbine, the pressure difference between the two will turn the turbine.
The higher the taller chimney, the greater the pressure difference.
This works with or without a jet stream type phenomenon.
Implement a similar scheme in the ocean, where either a deep underwater current or just the simple pressure difference will suck (or blow) water down from (or up to) a higher level, turning a turbine.
The turbine can be onshore for easy maintenance and repair.
Drop one end of a rigid pipe to the bottom of the Marianas trench and you will have a pressure difference of 1000 times sea level.
I realise you wouldn't see the full 1000x pressure at sea level but  by gradually reducing the diameter of the pipe as it ascends you can maintain a considerable pressure difference.
With both ends under water it creates a circuit with a turbine in the loop.
You could even take the top end through a desalinisation plant for an agricultural or potable water supply.
The pipe won't be crushed because the pressure at depth will be equalised inside and outside the pipe.
The only problem might be crap being sucked into the pipe, but I'm sure there are technical solutions for that.
Ocean currents are basically giant hydraulic systems anyway.
Yes I know you still have to get the power to where it will be used, but the current situation isn't much different anyway.
You already have power lines stretching hundreds of miles, you already have trans-continental oil and gas pipelines.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578307</id>
	<title>1\% is such a small number</title>
	<author>sneilan</author>
	<datestamp>1246650900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Surely that would require no significant amount of resources to be tapped. Maybe just an area the size of Australia? Not sure about that though. Please correct me if I'm wrong.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Surely that would require no significant amount of resources to be tapped .
Maybe just an area the size of Australia ?
Not sure about that though .
Please correct me if I 'm wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Surely that would require no significant amount of resources to be tapped.
Maybe just an area the size of Australia?
Not sure about that though.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28582683</id>
	<title>Prior Art.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246703220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://www.makanipower.com/vision.html</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.makanipower.com/vision.html</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.makanipower.com/vision.html</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578333</id>
	<title>The problem is/solution is...</title>
	<author>Billy the Mountain</author>
	<datestamp>1246737720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The challenge with this plan is how are they going to transmit the energy from 30,000 feet? How much does 40,000 feet of cable weigh? That's about 7 miles. Perhaps they could use lightweight tether and beam the energy using microwave like the space energy proposal but that adds complexity. BTW, The design referred to in the article uses a series of helicopter-like blades to sustain lift and generate electricity.</p><p>BTM</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The challenge with this plan is how are they going to transmit the energy from 30,000 feet ?
How much does 40,000 feet of cable weigh ?
That 's about 7 miles .
Perhaps they could use lightweight tether and beam the energy using microwave like the space energy proposal but that adds complexity .
BTW , The design referred to in the article uses a series of helicopter-like blades to sustain lift and generate electricity.BTM</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The challenge with this plan is how are they going to transmit the energy from 30,000 feet?
How much does 40,000 feet of cable weigh?
That's about 7 miles.
Perhaps they could use lightweight tether and beam the energy using microwave like the space energy proposal but that adds complexity.
BTW, The design referred to in the article uses a series of helicopter-like blades to sustain lift and generate electricity.BTM</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579285</id>
	<title>Re:The problem is/solution is...</title>
	<author>ciderVisor</author>
	<datestamp>1246712460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>How much does 40,000 feet of cable weigh?</p></div><p>Go to the top of the class !</p><p>This was briefly discussed in <a href="http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/2006\%20February.htm#enginasters" title="numberwatch.co.uk">Number Watch</a> [numberwatch.co.uk] a few years ago.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>How much does 40,000 feet of cable weigh ? Go to the top of the class ! This was briefly discussed in Number Watch [ numberwatch.co.uk ] a few years ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How much does 40,000 feet of cable weigh?Go to the top of the class !This was briefly discussed in Number Watch [numberwatch.co.uk] a few years ago.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578333</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28580913</id>
	<title>And it's a carnival ride too!</title>
	<author>ankhank</author>
	<datestamp>1246729500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ya know the old trick of putting a square of paper on a kite string so it rides up the string to the top?<br>(Also done more elaborately so it drops a parachute toy once it hits a trigger at the top, or carries a candle up at night, and many other variations).</p><p>I'd love to see huge "flying wing" kites tethered at 30K feet -- that'd mean tether material strong enough to handle the forces involved (or else when the string breaks it drags across Oregon from Portland to Pocatello tearing up everything in between, before the kite hits the ground somewhere in Wyoming).</p><p>Heck, it's a small step toward the space elevator.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ya know the old trick of putting a square of paper on a kite string so it rides up the string to the top ?
( Also done more elaborately so it drops a parachute toy once it hits a trigger at the top , or carries a candle up at night , and many other variations ) .I 'd love to see huge " flying wing " kites tethered at 30K feet -- that 'd mean tether material strong enough to handle the forces involved ( or else when the string breaks it drags across Oregon from Portland to Pocatello tearing up everything in between , before the kite hits the ground somewhere in Wyoming ) .Heck , it 's a small step toward the space elevator .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ya know the old trick of putting a square of paper on a kite string so it rides up the string to the top?
(Also done more elaborately so it drops a parachute toy once it hits a trigger at the top, or carries a candle up at night, and many other variations).I'd love to see huge "flying wing" kites tethered at 30K feet -- that'd mean tether material strong enough to handle the forces involved (or else when the string breaks it drags across Oregon from Portland to Pocatello tearing up everything in between, before the kite hits the ground somewhere in Wyoming).Heck, it's a small step toward the space elevator.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578919</id>
	<title>Re:Consequences</title>
	<author>Ex-MislTech</author>
	<datestamp>1246704780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Jet Airliners already catch free rides in the jet stream to save fuel,<br>and as there are thousands of planes up around the world<br>with likely hundreds of them doing it no problems so far<br>that we can detect.</p><p>Also, there are huge current underwater like the antarctic circumpolar<br>current that has about 140 times the flow of all the rivers on Earth.</p><p>A minor tap on it would power the southern hemisphere most likely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Jet Airliners already catch free rides in the jet stream to save fuel,and as there are thousands of planes up around the worldwith likely hundreds of them doing it no problems so farthat we can detect.Also , there are huge current underwater like the antarctic circumpolarcurrent that has about 140 times the flow of all the rivers on Earth.A minor tap on it would power the southern hemisphere most likely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Jet Airliners already catch free rides in the jet stream to save fuel,and as there are thousands of planes up around the worldwith likely hundreds of them doing it no problems so farthat we can detect.Also, there are huge current underwater like the antarctic circumpolarcurrent that has about 140 times the flow of all the rivers on Earth.A minor tap on it would power the southern hemisphere most likely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578185</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579255</id>
	<title>Re:Consequences</title>
	<author>WindBourne</author>
	<datestamp>1246711740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Changing the jet stream by 1\% impacting weather? I would put money down that it varies by more than 5\% over the course of a year. 1\% of anything is RARELY an issue, and I doubt that it will be here.
<br> <br>The problem comes when you depend on one thing and increase the percentage more and more. For example, the world current depends on Coal, oil and natural gas. It is adding  FAR more additional CO2 than all the natural processes such as Volcano's, space, etc. Had we added only 1\% new CO2, we would not have issues.<br> <br>In the end, what is needed is a DIVERSIFIED energy matrix from various sources, ideally, geo-thermal, solar, wind, kites, tidal, nukes, etc. Once we no longer depend on one source, then we will not be so insane as to deny actions that are visibly, let alone scientifically, occurring.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Changing the jet stream by 1 \ % impacting weather ?
I would put money down that it varies by more than 5 \ % over the course of a year .
1 \ % of anything is RARELY an issue , and I doubt that it will be here .
The problem comes when you depend on one thing and increase the percentage more and more .
For example , the world current depends on Coal , oil and natural gas .
It is adding FAR more additional CO2 than all the natural processes such as Volcano 's , space , etc .
Had we added only 1 \ % new CO2 , we would not have issues .
In the end , what is needed is a DIVERSIFIED energy matrix from various sources , ideally , geo-thermal , solar , wind , kites , tidal , nukes , etc .
Once we no longer depend on one source , then we will not be so insane as to deny actions that are visibly , let alone scientifically , occurring .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Changing the jet stream by 1\% impacting weather?
I would put money down that it varies by more than 5\% over the course of a year.
1\% of anything is RARELY an issue, and I doubt that it will be here.
The problem comes when you depend on one thing and increase the percentage more and more.
For example, the world current depends on Coal, oil and natural gas.
It is adding  FAR more additional CO2 than all the natural processes such as Volcano's, space, etc.
Had we added only 1\% new CO2, we would not have issues.
In the end, what is needed is a DIVERSIFIED energy matrix from various sources, ideally, geo-thermal, solar, wind, kites, tidal, nukes, etc.
Once we no longer depend on one source, then we will not be so insane as to deny actions that are visibly, let alone scientifically, occurring.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578185</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579531</id>
	<title>So ridiculous</title>
	<author>Ancient\_Hacker</author>
	<datestamp>1246716120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These well-meaning schemes still founder on the basic problems of working in a salt-water environment and the issue of a very dilute energy source.<br>You can't make a generator that works directly off ocean-swells-- the swells come by so slowly you'd need a coil inductance of about ten thousand Henries.</p><p>
&nbsp; A simple loop of wire, as postulated, has about a millionth of that.</p><p>Plus you need considerable iron to channel the magnetic flux.    No way around it.</p><p>Regarding the kites, figure out what the very lightest generator weighs, per watt.  Hint: not under 30 kilos per KW. Now assume you want to power 100 houses, say 50 KW.<br>
&nbsp; Figure out the size of the kite needed to lift than many tons.   Now at a 30 degree kitestring angle, the pull on the string will be twice the weight of the kite.   Figure out how<br>much 60,000 feet of kite string that will take that kind of stress weighs.    Now you need another large kite just to hold up the kite string.</p><p>And BTW, the "high speed" winds up there are not a panacea.  They're high speed but low in density.  The energy is, again, very dilute.  You need to at least double the size of the kite to get the same amount of lift and pull as you can get at low altitudes.<br>.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These well-meaning schemes still founder on the basic problems of working in a salt-water environment and the issue of a very dilute energy source.You ca n't make a generator that works directly off ocean-swells-- the swells come by so slowly you 'd need a coil inductance of about ten thousand Henries .
  A simple loop of wire , as postulated , has about a millionth of that.Plus you need considerable iron to channel the magnetic flux .
No way around it.Regarding the kites , figure out what the very lightest generator weighs , per watt .
Hint : not under 30 kilos per KW .
Now assume you want to power 100 houses , say 50 KW .
  Figure out the size of the kite needed to lift than many tons .
Now at a 30 degree kitestring angle , the pull on the string will be twice the weight of the kite .
Figure out howmuch 60,000 feet of kite string that will take that kind of stress weighs .
Now you need another large kite just to hold up the kite string.And BTW , the " high speed " winds up there are not a panacea .
They 're high speed but low in density .
The energy is , again , very dilute .
You need to at least double the size of the kite to get the same amount of lift and pull as you can get at low altitudes. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These well-meaning schemes still founder on the basic problems of working in a salt-water environment and the issue of a very dilute energy source.You can't make a generator that works directly off ocean-swells-- the swells come by so slowly you'd need a coil inductance of about ten thousand Henries.
  A simple loop of wire, as postulated, has about a millionth of that.Plus you need considerable iron to channel the magnetic flux.
No way around it.Regarding the kites, figure out what the very lightest generator weighs, per watt.
Hint: not under 30 kilos per KW.
Now assume you want to power 100 houses, say 50 KW.
  Figure out the size of the kite needed to lift than many tons.
Now at a 30 degree kitestring angle, the pull on the string will be twice the weight of the kite.
Figure out howmuch 60,000 feet of kite string that will take that kind of stress weighs.
Now you need another large kite just to hold up the kite string.And BTW, the "high speed" winds up there are not a panacea.
They're high speed but low in density.
The energy is, again, very dilute.
You need to at least double the size of the kite to get the same amount of lift and pull as you can get at low altitudes..</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28580805</id>
	<title>Already moving into test offshore from Wales</title>
	<author>whitroth</author>
	<datestamp>1246728720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With a 1MW trial set for next year.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mark</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With a 1MW trial set for next year .
              mark</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With a 1MW trial set for next year.
              mark</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578507</id>
	<title>Kitty power!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246740180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>At first glance I read the title as "Generating Power From Ocean Buoys and Kitties"</p><p>I thought someone had finally harnessed the power of self-righting kitties for the betterment of mankind.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>At first glance I read the title as " Generating Power From Ocean Buoys and Kitties " I thought someone had finally harnessed the power of self-righting kitties for the betterment of mankind .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At first glance I read the title as "Generating Power From Ocean Buoys and Kitties"I thought someone had finally harnessed the power of self-righting kitties for the betterment of mankind.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28585851</id>
	<title>Re:1\% is such a small number</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246801080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Which is more feasible? Given the fact that wind turbines can be anchored to float out at sea and the fact that solar panels can be put in deserts and other unused land, I'd say both these power sources are very, very interesting.</p><p>Putting solar panels in the desert may seem cheaper, since it is on land, until you consider the problem of cooling the panels (or if no cooling is used -- the cost of shorter panel life cycles).</p><p>Of course, technological advances will change all this. If you extrapolate the growth curves of the global wind power capacity and solar power capacity, it looks like the solar power curve overtakes the wind power curve around 2030.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Which is more feasible ?
Given the fact that wind turbines can be anchored to float out at sea and the fact that solar panels can be put in deserts and other unused land , I 'd say both these power sources are very , very interesting.Putting solar panels in the desert may seem cheaper , since it is on land , until you consider the problem of cooling the panels ( or if no cooling is used -- the cost of shorter panel life cycles ) .Of course , technological advances will change all this .
If you extrapolate the growth curves of the global wind power capacity and solar power capacity , it looks like the solar power curve overtakes the wind power curve around 2030 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which is more feasible?
Given the fact that wind turbines can be anchored to float out at sea and the fact that solar panels can be put in deserts and other unused land, I'd say both these power sources are very, very interesting.Putting solar panels in the desert may seem cheaper, since it is on land, until you consider the problem of cooling the panels (or if no cooling is used -- the cost of shorter panel life cycles).Of course, technological advances will change all this.
If you extrapolate the growth curves of the global wind power capacity and solar power capacity, it looks like the solar power curve overtakes the wind power curve around 2030.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578979</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28584881</id>
	<title>Generators OUT of the water?</title>
	<author>Eclipse-now</author>
	<datestamp>1246737420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hi all,<br>
What about attaching underwater buoys that bob up and down and operate a pump that pushes high pressure seawater onto land. A few hundred buoys and you've got some serious water pressure that can push the turbine on land. This was developed by one of Australia's oil exploration men, who took advantage of the oil industry engineer's experience of pumping fluids in the marine environment. So instead of expensive electronics out at sea, it's just underwater buoys (that don't interfere with shipping) and pipes pumping water in to the mainland.
<br> <br>Apparently the cost advantages of doing it this way with only plumbing at sea and all the generators and electronics on land are significant.

<a href="http://www.ceto.com.au/" title="ceto.com.au" rel="nofollow">http://www.ceto.com.au/</a> [ceto.com.au] <br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CETO\_Wave\_Power" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CETO\_Wave\_Power</a> [wikipedia.org] <br>
ABC news video illustrates bobbing / pumping action of CETO wave power buoys (no sexual puns intended)<br>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V27ZBODcv0c" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V27ZBODcv0c</a> [youtube.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hi all , What about attaching underwater buoys that bob up and down and operate a pump that pushes high pressure seawater onto land .
A few hundred buoys and you 've got some serious water pressure that can push the turbine on land .
This was developed by one of Australia 's oil exploration men , who took advantage of the oil industry engineer 's experience of pumping fluids in the marine environment .
So instead of expensive electronics out at sea , it 's just underwater buoys ( that do n't interfere with shipping ) and pipes pumping water in to the mainland .
Apparently the cost advantages of doing it this way with only plumbing at sea and all the generators and electronics on land are significant .
http : //www.ceto.com.au/ [ ceto.com.au ] http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CETO \ _Wave \ _Power [ wikipedia.org ] ABC news video illustrates bobbing / pumping action of CETO wave power buoys ( no sexual puns intended ) http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = V27ZBODcv0c [ youtube.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hi all,
What about attaching underwater buoys that bob up and down and operate a pump that pushes high pressure seawater onto land.
A few hundred buoys and you've got some serious water pressure that can push the turbine on land.
This was developed by one of Australia's oil exploration men, who took advantage of the oil industry engineer's experience of pumping fluids in the marine environment.
So instead of expensive electronics out at sea, it's just underwater buoys (that don't interfere with shipping) and pipes pumping water in to the mainland.
Apparently the cost advantages of doing it this way with only plumbing at sea and all the generators and electronics on land are significant.
http://www.ceto.com.au/ [ceto.com.au] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CETO\_Wave\_Power [wikipedia.org] 
ABC news video illustrates bobbing / pumping action of CETO wave power buoys (no sexual puns intended)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V27ZBODcv0c [youtube.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578219</id>
	<title>Powered by Slashdot comments</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246649040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Now there's an idea!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Now there 's an idea !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now there's an idea!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578917</id>
	<title>Re:Stop the Irony</title>
	<author>TapeCutter</author>
	<datestamp>1246704720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Right, lets stop the irony and blame the greenies, lets ignore the fact the dams are 80yrs old, poorly designed and <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/30/AR2007013001757.html" title="washingtonpost.com">commercial fishermen</a> [washingtonpost.com] want them altered/removed to allow salmon to spawn. Seems to me it's simply a failure to invest in modern infrastructure (fish ladders), failure to reinvest seems to be a bad habit power companies have picked up these days.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Right , lets stop the irony and blame the greenies , lets ignore the fact the dams are 80yrs old , poorly designed and commercial fishermen [ washingtonpost.com ] want them altered/removed to allow salmon to spawn .
Seems to me it 's simply a failure to invest in modern infrastructure ( fish ladders ) , failure to reinvest seems to be a bad habit power companies have picked up these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right, lets stop the irony and blame the greenies, lets ignore the fact the dams are 80yrs old, poorly designed and commercial fishermen [washingtonpost.com] want them altered/removed to allow salmon to spawn.
Seems to me it's simply a failure to invest in modern infrastructure (fish ladders), failure to reinvest seems to be a bad habit power companies have picked up these days.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578369</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578161</id>
	<title>Zap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246648200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Someone got the wiring wrong. Poor fishies.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Someone got the wiring wrong .
Poor fishies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Someone got the wiring wrong.
Poor fishies.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28580587</id>
	<title>Don't tell the CIA</title>
	<author>cryfreedomlove</author>
	<datestamp>1246726680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm surprised this was brought up publicly because everyone knows the CIA is hell bent to make sure any carbon neutral energy source never takes hold.  It's oil and war forever for us, baby.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised this was brought up publicly because everyone knows the CIA is hell bent to make sure any carbon neutral energy source never takes hold .
It 's oil and war forever for us , baby .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm surprised this was brought up publicly because everyone knows the CIA is hell bent to make sure any carbon neutral energy source never takes hold.
It's oil and war forever for us, baby.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28580281</id>
	<title>Pretty simple</title>
	<author>Torino10</author>
	<datestamp>1246723920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think the idea of lifting a generator on a kite is absurd, however, the Ladder mill concept, or any other scheme involving a reciprocating airfoil or  flight path can be utilized by a generator on the ground to take advantage of variations on the tension of the tether to generate electricity.

<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2008/aug/01/electric.kite" title="guardian.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2008/aug/01/electric.kite</a> [guardian.co.uk]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think the idea of lifting a generator on a kite is absurd , however , the Ladder mill concept , or any other scheme involving a reciprocating airfoil or flight path can be utilized by a generator on the ground to take advantage of variations on the tension of the tether to generate electricity .
http : //www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2008/aug/01/electric.kite [ guardian.co.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think the idea of lifting a generator on a kite is absurd, however, the Ladder mill concept, or any other scheme involving a reciprocating airfoil or  flight path can be utilized by a generator on the ground to take advantage of variations on the tension of the tether to generate electricity.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2008/aug/01/electric.kite [guardian.co.uk]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28580317</id>
	<title>Re:Zap</title>
	<author>icebike</author>
	<datestamp>1246724220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Putting the actual generating elements in seawater is a maintenance nightmare.</p><p>Images here:<br><a href="http://media.smithsonianmag.com/images/The-electric-wave-model-8.jpg" title="smithsonianmag.com">http://media.smithsonianmag.com/images/The-electric-wave-model-8.jpg</a> [smithsonianmag.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Putting the actual generating elements in seawater is a maintenance nightmare.Images here : http : //media.smithsonianmag.com/images/The-electric-wave-model-8.jpg [ smithsonianmag.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Putting the actual generating elements in seawater is a maintenance nightmare.Images here:http://media.smithsonianmag.com/images/The-electric-wave-model-8.jpg [smithsonianmag.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578161</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578979</id>
	<title>Re:1\% is such a small number</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246706040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly my thought.  1\% is a tiny number, until you multiply it by the surface area of the Earth.  Let's talk some real numbers instead.  Current world power consumption is around 500 Exajoules per year, or about 15 TW on average.  About 89 PW of solar energy hits the Earth's surface.  This means that you'd need 0.017\% of the Earth's surface to be converted to solar power to generate enough power for the entire world[1].  Now let's turn these into real numbers, rather than percentages.  The surface area of the world is 510,072,000km^2.  For solar, you'd need 85,967.191km^2, or a square around 300km on each side.  For wind energy, you'd need 5,100,720km^2, or a square around 2250km on each side.  Which of these sounds more feasible?  <p>
The figures for solar are using the average power, but it's worth noting that a number of the places with the highest solar energy are not particularly suited to human habitation.  The Sahara desert is 9,000,000km^2.  Enough solar energy hits less than 1\% of the Sahara to power the entire world.  </p><p>
That's not to say wind power is a waste of time.  The nice thing about this idea is that it works at night.  Without some very efficient storage system or room-temperature superconductors, it's not feasible to power the whole world with solar energy.  It's much easier to take things like this seriously, however, without the needless hyperbole.
</p><p>[1] Note I'm assuming 100\% efficiency here.  The original article stated 1\% of the energy in the wind, not 1\% of the extractable energy, meaning that he was also assuming 100\% efficiency.  Back in the real world, scale all of the areas up by another order of magnitude or so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly my thought .
1 \ % is a tiny number , until you multiply it by the surface area of the Earth .
Let 's talk some real numbers instead .
Current world power consumption is around 500 Exajoules per year , or about 15 TW on average .
About 89 PW of solar energy hits the Earth 's surface .
This means that you 'd need 0.017 \ % of the Earth 's surface to be converted to solar power to generate enough power for the entire world [ 1 ] .
Now let 's turn these into real numbers , rather than percentages .
The surface area of the world is 510,072,000km ^ 2 .
For solar , you 'd need 85,967.191km ^ 2 , or a square around 300km on each side .
For wind energy , you 'd need 5,100,720km ^ 2 , or a square around 2250km on each side .
Which of these sounds more feasible ?
The figures for solar are using the average power , but it 's worth noting that a number of the places with the highest solar energy are not particularly suited to human habitation .
The Sahara desert is 9,000,000km ^ 2 .
Enough solar energy hits less than 1 \ % of the Sahara to power the entire world .
That 's not to say wind power is a waste of time .
The nice thing about this idea is that it works at night .
Without some very efficient storage system or room-temperature superconductors , it 's not feasible to power the whole world with solar energy .
It 's much easier to take things like this seriously , however , without the needless hyperbole .
[ 1 ] Note I 'm assuming 100 \ % efficiency here .
The original article stated 1 \ % of the energy in the wind , not 1 \ % of the extractable energy , meaning that he was also assuming 100 \ % efficiency .
Back in the real world , scale all of the areas up by another order of magnitude or so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly my thought.
1\% is a tiny number, until you multiply it by the surface area of the Earth.
Let's talk some real numbers instead.
Current world power consumption is around 500 Exajoules per year, or about 15 TW on average.
About 89 PW of solar energy hits the Earth's surface.
This means that you'd need 0.017\% of the Earth's surface to be converted to solar power to generate enough power for the entire world[1].
Now let's turn these into real numbers, rather than percentages.
The surface area of the world is 510,072,000km^2.
For solar, you'd need 85,967.191km^2, or a square around 300km on each side.
For wind energy, you'd need 5,100,720km^2, or a square around 2250km on each side.
Which of these sounds more feasible?
The figures for solar are using the average power, but it's worth noting that a number of the places with the highest solar energy are not particularly suited to human habitation.
The Sahara desert is 9,000,000km^2.
Enough solar energy hits less than 1\% of the Sahara to power the entire world.
That's not to say wind power is a waste of time.
The nice thing about this idea is that it works at night.
Without some very efficient storage system or room-temperature superconductors, it's not feasible to power the whole world with solar energy.
It's much easier to take things like this seriously, however, without the needless hyperbole.
[1] Note I'm assuming 100\% efficiency here.
The original article stated 1\% of the energy in the wind, not 1\% of the extractable energy, meaning that he was also assuming 100\% efficiency.
Back in the real world, scale all of the areas up by another order of magnitude or so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578307</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578375</id>
	<title>Seasteading</title>
	<author>Garrett Fox</author>
	<datestamp>1246738140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm interested in this topic partly because of its connection to "seasteading" or sea-surface colonization.<br> <br>
As with other forms of "alternative" energy, though, the problem is cost. Generating energy from renewable sources certainly sounds nifty. But does it make sense for the kind of low-budget settlement that could plausibly exist anytime soon, or even for conventional markets on land? The article summary is about making an energy generator that will work, period, not making something that can compete with existing energy sources. Right now, alt-energy proposals all seem to rely on governments heavily taxing fossil fuels and heavily subsidizing the new sources, creating a very unfree market. I've even heard the claim (though I've not looked into the numbers) that some of these systems cost more to build and maintain than the lifetime expected value of the energy they harvest.<br> <br>
Rather than a big, durable system, why not some kind of cheap low-energy system? I've heard of some tiny wind (?) energy generator developed for use in the Third World that costs next to nothing and produces a tiny but useful trickle of electricity. If you've got a bunch of those, it doesn't much matter if some break in a big storm.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm interested in this topic partly because of its connection to " seasteading " or sea-surface colonization .
As with other forms of " alternative " energy , though , the problem is cost .
Generating energy from renewable sources certainly sounds nifty .
But does it make sense for the kind of low-budget settlement that could plausibly exist anytime soon , or even for conventional markets on land ?
The article summary is about making an energy generator that will work , period , not making something that can compete with existing energy sources .
Right now , alt-energy proposals all seem to rely on governments heavily taxing fossil fuels and heavily subsidizing the new sources , creating a very unfree market .
I 've even heard the claim ( though I 've not looked into the numbers ) that some of these systems cost more to build and maintain than the lifetime expected value of the energy they harvest .
Rather than a big , durable system , why not some kind of cheap low-energy system ?
I 've heard of some tiny wind ( ?
) energy generator developed for use in the Third World that costs next to nothing and produces a tiny but useful trickle of electricity .
If you 've got a bunch of those , it does n't much matter if some break in a big storm .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm interested in this topic partly because of its connection to "seasteading" or sea-surface colonization.
As with other forms of "alternative" energy, though, the problem is cost.
Generating energy from renewable sources certainly sounds nifty.
But does it make sense for the kind of low-budget settlement that could plausibly exist anytime soon, or even for conventional markets on land?
The article summary is about making an energy generator that will work, period, not making something that can compete with existing energy sources.
Right now, alt-energy proposals all seem to rely on governments heavily taxing fossil fuels and heavily subsidizing the new sources, creating a very unfree market.
I've even heard the claim (though I've not looked into the numbers) that some of these systems cost more to build and maintain than the lifetime expected value of the energy they harvest.
Rather than a big, durable system, why not some kind of cheap low-energy system?
I've heard of some tiny wind (?
) energy generator developed for use in the Third World that costs next to nothing and produces a tiny but useful trickle of electricity.
If you've got a bunch of those, it doesn't much matter if some break in a big storm.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28582851</id>
	<title>Re:Fuck it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246705200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perspective</p><p>less people = more resources available per person.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perspectiveless people = more resources available per person .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perspectiveless people = more resources available per person.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579467</id>
	<title>captain's opinion</title>
	<author>Max\_W</author>
	<datestamp>1246715340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In addition to half-submerged loose containers, which infest navigable waters nowadays, we will have these generators, drifting around after a storm.
<br> <br>
Damage to boats, caused by these extremely dangerous items in the oceans, will cancel  environmental gains thousand times over.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In addition to half-submerged loose containers , which infest navigable waters nowadays , we will have these generators , drifting around after a storm .
Damage to boats , caused by these extremely dangerous items in the oceans , will cancel environmental gains thousand times over .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In addition to half-submerged loose containers, which infest navigable waters nowadays, we will have these generators, drifting around after a storm.
Damage to boats, caused by these extremely dangerous items in the oceans, will cancel  environmental gains thousand times over.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578185</id>
	<title>Consequences</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246648560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wouldn't this cause drag in the jetstreams... which are, you know, absolutely critical for weather - and thus life - on this planet?  If we alter the jetstreams even slightly, aren't we going to cause major collateral damage down the line?</p><p>There's no such thing as free energy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would n't this cause drag in the jetstreams... which are , you know , absolutely critical for weather - and thus life - on this planet ?
If we alter the jetstreams even slightly , are n't we going to cause major collateral damage down the line ? There 's no such thing as free energy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wouldn't this cause drag in the jetstreams... which are, you know, absolutely critical for weather - and thus life - on this planet?
If we alter the jetstreams even slightly, aren't we going to cause major collateral damage down the line?There's no such thing as free energy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578657</id>
	<title>Boondoggle bait</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246699260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <b>Boondoggle</b>: <i>n.  	work of little or no value done merely to keep or look busy.</i>  </p><p>Political favor is unfortunately a far more dominant motivation to develop sustainable energy technology than sustainability itself.  I've seen too many boondoggle projects get huge grants because they are the most visible, like big wind farms within sight of a large population, in favor of more suitable locations.  If we can't implement a centuries-old technology effectively today at ground level, what good is a new technology in one of the most foreign environments known to mankind?  Ignorant energy harvesting is what got us in this mess in the first place!</p><p>I have a strong respect for academic studies, but minds aimed at sustainable living are wasted on these implausible contrivances.  There's enough dorks on Star Trek forums trying to prove useless theories.  Don't waste our taxes on them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Boondoggle : n. work of little or no value done merely to keep or look busy .
Political favor is unfortunately a far more dominant motivation to develop sustainable energy technology than sustainability itself .
I 've seen too many boondoggle projects get huge grants because they are the most visible , like big wind farms within sight of a large population , in favor of more suitable locations .
If we ca n't implement a centuries-old technology effectively today at ground level , what good is a new technology in one of the most foreign environments known to mankind ?
Ignorant energy harvesting is what got us in this mess in the first place ! I have a strong respect for academic studies , but minds aimed at sustainable living are wasted on these implausible contrivances .
There 's enough dorks on Star Trek forums trying to prove useless theories .
Do n't waste our taxes on them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Boondoggle: n.  	work of little or no value done merely to keep or look busy.
Political favor is unfortunately a far more dominant motivation to develop sustainable energy technology than sustainability itself.
I've seen too many boondoggle projects get huge grants because they are the most visible, like big wind farms within sight of a large population, in favor of more suitable locations.
If we can't implement a centuries-old technology effectively today at ground level, what good is a new technology in one of the most foreign environments known to mankind?
Ignorant energy harvesting is what got us in this mess in the first place!I have a strong respect for academic studies, but minds aimed at sustainable living are wasted on these implausible contrivances.
There's enough dorks on Star Trek forums trying to prove useless theories.
Don't waste our taxes on them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578581</id>
	<title>Watch out! It's a kite!</title>
	<author>teamsleep</author>
	<datestamp>1246698240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder how you can get by the kites when you're flying directly at them in an airplane. They'd need to GPS coordinate where the kites are at all times.

I mean really, who wants to die by a kite in mid air?

Would be funny but not so pretty.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder how you can get by the kites when you 're flying directly at them in an airplane .
They 'd need to GPS coordinate where the kites are at all times .
I mean really , who wants to die by a kite in mid air ?
Would be funny but not so pretty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder how you can get by the kites when you're flying directly at them in an airplane.
They'd need to GPS coordinate where the kites are at all times.
I mean really, who wants to die by a kite in mid air?
Would be funny but not so pretty.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579515</id>
	<title>Re:Good luck with that</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246715940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Presumably to harvest 1\% of the wind  energy in the upper atmosphere, you'd need to have around 1\% of the wind there pass through your turbine.  (Probably more, because your turbine isn't going to harvest all the energy in the wind.)</p><p>Is it "nearly free" to have 1\% of the stratosphere full of turbine kites?  That's a lot of kites...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Presumably to harvest 1 \ % of the wind energy in the upper atmosphere , you 'd need to have around 1 \ % of the wind there pass through your turbine .
( Probably more , because your turbine is n't going to harvest all the energy in the wind .
) Is it " nearly free " to have 1 \ % of the stratosphere full of turbine kites ?
That 's a lot of kites.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Presumably to harvest 1\% of the wind  energy in the upper atmosphere, you'd need to have around 1\% of the wind there pass through your turbine.
(Probably more, because your turbine isn't going to harvest all the energy in the wind.
)Is it "nearly free" to have 1\% of the stratosphere full of turbine kites?
That's a lot of kites...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579015</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28581185</id>
	<title>Re:Good luck with that</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246731660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I love it when "scientists" say stuff like that.  How many freakin' kites would it take to harness 1\%?  Would you still be able to see the sky?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I love it when " scientists " say stuff like that .
How many freakin ' kites would it take to harness 1 \ % ?
Would you still be able to see the sky ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love it when "scientists" say stuff like that.
How many freakin' kites would it take to harness 1\%?
Would you still be able to see the sky?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28581903</id>
	<title>Re:Stop the Irony</title>
	<author>TheTurtlesMoves</author>
	<datestamp>1246737960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nuke em.. its the only way to be sure....</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nuke em.. its the only way to be sure... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nuke em.. its the only way to be sure....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578369</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578413</id>
	<title>To Late</title>
	<author>rlither</author>
	<datestamp>1246738860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Google already did this and patend it</htmltext>
<tokenext>Google already did this and patend it</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google already did this and patend it</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28581897</id>
	<title>Re:Consequences</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246737780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>We are all going to die... do us a favour and kill yourself now. you are affecting the envourment for the worst. The planet was happier without you.
<br> <br>
You are a waste of carbon.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We are all going to die... do us a favour and kill yourself now .
you are affecting the envourment for the worst .
The planet was happier without you .
You are a waste of carbon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We are all going to die... do us a favour and kill yourself now.
you are affecting the envourment for the worst.
The planet was happier without you.
You are a waste of carbon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578185</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578397</id>
	<title>Re:1\% is such a small number</title>
	<author>houstonbofh</author>
	<datestamp>1246738560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just don't think about transmission losses...  Those pesky realities mess up perfectly good theories.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just do n't think about transmission losses... Those pesky realities mess up perfectly good theories .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just don't think about transmission losses...  Those pesky realities mess up perfectly good theories.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578307</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579213</id>
	<title>Re:Good luck with that</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246710780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>EXCEPT we can't turn electricty to cold(as in directly without producing heat at the same time) yet. So we are still stuck with global warming unless we find a way to do so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>EXCEPT we ca n't turn electricty to cold ( as in directly without producing heat at the same time ) yet .
So we are still stuck with global warming unless we find a way to do so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>EXCEPT we can't turn electricty to cold(as in directly without producing heat at the same time) yet.
So we are still stuck with global warming unless we find a way to do so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579015</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579705</id>
	<title>Re:Why use all these wires ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246718460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.energysavers.gov/renewable\_energy/ocean/index.cfm/mytopic=50010" title="energysavers.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.energysavers.gov/renewable\_energy/ocean/index.cfm/mytopic=50010</a> [energysavers.gov]

Temperature differences are probably a better way to go, where pumping the colder water from the depths provides much more energy than it takes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //www.energysavers.gov/renewable \ _energy/ocean/index.cfm/mytopic = 50010 [ energysavers.gov ] Temperature differences are probably a better way to go , where pumping the colder water from the depths provides much more energy than it takes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://www.energysavers.gov/renewable\_energy/ocean/index.cfm/mytopic=50010 [energysavers.gov]

Temperature differences are probably a better way to go, where pumping the colder water from the depths provides much more energy than it takes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579327</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579603</id>
	<title>Dual purpose</title>
	<author>zogger</author>
	<datestamp>1246717440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Most large dams are there also for water storage and flood control, to even the supply out over the year, and we really don't have much in the way of alternatives for that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Most large dams are there also for water storage and flood control , to even the supply out over the year , and we really do n't have much in the way of alternatives for that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most large dams are there also for water storage and flood control, to even the supply out over the year, and we really don't have much in the way of alternatives for that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579211</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28601639</id>
	<title>Re:Zap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246884660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Someone got the wiring wrong. Poor fishies.</p></div><p>Poor sea kittens.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Someone got the wiring wrong .
Poor fishies.Poor sea kittens .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Someone got the wiring wrong.
Poor fishies.Poor sea kittens.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578161</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578557</id>
	<title>Ben Franklin?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246740900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ben Franklin?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ben Franklin ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ben Franklin?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579133</id>
	<title>Re:Nature's take</title>
	<author>smoker2</author>
	<datestamp>1246708920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Call me back when nature uses photosynthesis to create electricity.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Call me back when nature uses photosynthesis to create electricity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Call me back when nature uses photosynthesis to create electricity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28578313</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_04_0235205.28579559</id>
	<title>Fuck it</title>
	<author>ae1294</author>
	<datestamp>1246716480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I say we just keep burning old tires to heat our homes and be done with it...</p><p>I'm sick of all the bogus reasons people come up with why something isn't going to work when they have no fucking idea what the are talking about.</p><p>It's not cost effective - No shit because no one is making 50 million of them yet.<br>It's going to change the weather - Ahh yeah and so does standing outside on a windy day jackass.<br>It's going to hurt the sea life - Ahh yeah and so does all the trash we dump in the ocean every day and don't forget about all the dead zones from algae overgrowth caused by fertilizer and raw sewage.</p><p>Get some fucking prospective people.. We already are killing the planet.</p><p>Step 1 is to learn to kill it sloooower.<br>Step 2 is improve step on step 1.<br>Step 3 is to get the fuck out of here.<br>Step 4 ????<br>Step 5 Profit FOREVER.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I say we just keep burning old tires to heat our homes and be done with it...I 'm sick of all the bogus reasons people come up with why something is n't going to work when they have no fucking idea what the are talking about.It 's not cost effective - No shit because no one is making 50 million of them yet.It 's going to change the weather - Ahh yeah and so does standing outside on a windy day jackass.It 's going to hurt the sea life - Ahh yeah and so does all the trash we dump in the ocean every day and do n't forget about all the dead zones from algae overgrowth caused by fertilizer and raw sewage.Get some fucking prospective people.. We already are killing the planet.Step 1 is to learn to kill it sloooower.Step 2 is improve step on step 1.Step 3 is to get the fuck out of here.Step 4 ? ? ?
? Step 5 Profit FOREVER .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I say we just keep burning old tires to heat our homes and be done with it...I'm sick of all the bogus reasons people come up with why something isn't going to work when they have no fucking idea what the are talking about.It's not cost effective - No shit because no one is making 50 million of them yet.It's going to change the weather - Ahh yeah and so does standing outside on a windy day jackass.It's going to hurt the sea life - Ahh yeah and so does all the trash we dump in the ocean every day and don't forget about all the dead zones from algae overgrowth caused by fertilizer and raw sewage.Get some fucking prospective people.. We already are killing the planet.Step 1 is to learn to kill it sloooower.Step 2 is improve step on step 1.Step 3 is to get the fuck out of here.Step 4 ???
?Step 5 Profit FOREVER.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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