<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_03_1539249</id>
	<title>Open Source Facing a Difficult Battle For Cloud Relevance</title>
	<author>ScuttleMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1246647300000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>A recent eulogy for <a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505\_3-10278914-16.html?part=rss&amp;subj=news&amp;tag=2547-1\_3-0-5">open source's relevance to cloud computing</a> by Redmonk analyst Stephen O'Grady caught the attention of Matt Asay, who breaks down the difficulty of this David and Goliath problem.  <i>"In a world where horsepower matters more than the software feeding those 'horses,' in terms of the entry cost to compete, and where big vendors like Amazon and Google are already divvying up the market, the odds of a small-fry, open-source start-up challenging 'Goliath' are slim.  It's not a new argument: Nick Carr has been suggesting for some time that only a few, big companies can afford relevance in this hardware-intensive business.  Given this fact, O'Grady thinks the best we can hope for (and he thinks it's pretty important) is 'a loose coalition or confederation of [open-source] projects and vendors that will together comprise an increasingly viable top to bottom alternative to some of the cloud providers today.' He includes projects like Puppet (Reductive Labs) and Hadoop in this mix, but is careful to point out that he doesn't see a full-fledged, open-source alternative seriously challenging the closed platforms of Google, Amazon, Salesforce, and the other mega-clouds."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>A recent eulogy for open source 's relevance to cloud computing by Redmonk analyst Stephen O'Grady caught the attention of Matt Asay , who breaks down the difficulty of this David and Goliath problem .
" In a world where horsepower matters more than the software feeding those 'horses, ' in terms of the entry cost to compete , and where big vendors like Amazon and Google are already divvying up the market , the odds of a small-fry , open-source start-up challenging 'Goliath ' are slim .
It 's not a new argument : Nick Carr has been suggesting for some time that only a few , big companies can afford relevance in this hardware-intensive business .
Given this fact , O'Grady thinks the best we can hope for ( and he thinks it 's pretty important ) is 'a loose coalition or confederation of [ open-source ] projects and vendors that will together comprise an increasingly viable top to bottom alternative to some of the cloud providers today .
' He includes projects like Puppet ( Reductive Labs ) and Hadoop in this mix , but is careful to point out that he does n't see a full-fledged , open-source alternative seriously challenging the closed platforms of Google , Amazon , Salesforce , and the other mega-clouds .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A recent eulogy for open source's relevance to cloud computing by Redmonk analyst Stephen O'Grady caught the attention of Matt Asay, who breaks down the difficulty of this David and Goliath problem.
"In a world where horsepower matters more than the software feeding those 'horses,' in terms of the entry cost to compete, and where big vendors like Amazon and Google are already divvying up the market, the odds of a small-fry, open-source start-up challenging 'Goliath' are slim.
It's not a new argument: Nick Carr has been suggesting for some time that only a few, big companies can afford relevance in this hardware-intensive business.
Given this fact, O'Grady thinks the best we can hope for (and he thinks it's pretty important) is 'a loose coalition or confederation of [open-source] projects and vendors that will together comprise an increasingly viable top to bottom alternative to some of the cloud providers today.
' He includes projects like Puppet (Reductive Labs) and Hadoop in this mix, but is careful to point out that he doesn't see a full-fledged, open-source alternative seriously challenging the closed platforms of Google, Amazon, Salesforce, and the other mega-clouds.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574129</id>
	<title>Do we really need a cloud?</title>
	<author>spiffmastercow</author>
	<datestamp>1246651620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cloud computing is inefficient, expensive, sensitive to outages, and is vulnerable to all sorts of new types of security issues.  Why do we need this again?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cloud computing is inefficient , expensive , sensitive to outages , and is vulnerable to all sorts of new types of security issues .
Why do we need this again ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cloud computing is inefficient, expensive, sensitive to outages, and is vulnerable to all sorts of new types of security issues.
Why do we need this again?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28578749</id>
	<title>Re:What the hell is cloud computing anyway?</title>
	<author>12357bd</author>
	<datestamp>1246701000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Buzzword, hype. That's all.</p><p>Big Server gets a lot of request that handles spreading the process in a variable number of machines in paralel. The point is to try to make big servers (aka big companies) an internet necesity, instead of the original intent of the net designers, that is: every IP it's a source of information/processing.</p><p>Google, MS, Amazon, etc, etc are making his bests, technologically and politically trying to subvert the nature of the net. It's really sad that Google and others are using open source to try to close the net!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Buzzword , hype .
That 's all.Big Server gets a lot of request that handles spreading the process in a variable number of machines in paralel .
The point is to try to make big servers ( aka big companies ) an internet necesity , instead of the original intent of the net designers , that is : every IP it 's a source of information/processing.Google , MS , Amazon , etc , etc are making his bests , technologically and politically trying to subvert the nature of the net .
It 's really sad that Google and others are using open source to try to close the net !
: (</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Buzzword, hype.
That's all.Big Server gets a lot of request that handles spreading the process in a variable number of machines in paralel.
The point is to try to make big servers (aka big companies) an internet necesity, instead of the original intent of the net designers, that is: every IP it's a source of information/processing.Google, MS, Amazon, etc, etc are making his bests, technologically and politically trying to subvert the nature of the net.
It's really sad that Google and others are using open source to try to close the net!
:(</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575155</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28581427</id>
	<title>Re:OSS also not a big player in cheeseburger marke</title>
	<author>dkf</author>
	<datestamp>1246733400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud\_computing" title="wikipedia.org">Could Computing</a> [wikipedia.org] is simply a service provided over the Internet that is scalable and virtualized.</p><p>In short the software is in the web browser, while the data is stored somewhere else like on the servers. The word "Cloud" is a metaphor for the Internet.</p></div><p>You've misunderstood. It's the <i>servers</i> that are virtualized, not (necessarily) the clients. Indeed, cloud computing is not about the clients (that's "Web 2.0" that you've got mixed up with there).<br>[Leaving out lots of bits which stem from that basic error]</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The reason why open source developers don't support cloud computing is because they feel that it locks the users into third party technology and exposes their data across the Internet in violation of privacy that others could spy on it or capture it via packet sniffers. So OSS developers try to avoid making cloud computing applications as a matter of personal ethics, etc.</p></div><p>Cloud computing does not need to be insecure (much of it is based on things like SSH and WS-Security, and nobody's claiming that they're desperately insecure) though it is up to you to make the best use of them. (Using them through a browser might be a less-good idea, but that's because browser security is a real nasty fight. But cloud computing is orthogonal to all that.)</p><p>There is also no inherent reason for lock-in at the basic service level (at the full Software-as-a-Service level, it's hard to avoid unless the software is available locally, but that usually involves dealing with the same software vendor anyway) though that will require some standardization. There are no real standards yet, of course, because this has all happened so rapidly; it's only now that we're getting to the point where it makes sense to standardize. You're welcome to come and participate, helping to make this a diverse way of handling computing power for many people for decades. But don't come expecting people to adapt just to fit your prejudices; if you want something, have a well-argued technical reason for it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Could Computing [ wikipedia.org ] is simply a service provided over the Internet that is scalable and virtualized.In short the software is in the web browser , while the data is stored somewhere else like on the servers .
The word " Cloud " is a metaphor for the Internet.You 've misunderstood .
It 's the servers that are virtualized , not ( necessarily ) the clients .
Indeed , cloud computing is not about the clients ( that 's " Web 2.0 " that you 've got mixed up with there ) .
[ Leaving out lots of bits which stem from that basic error ] The reason why open source developers do n't support cloud computing is because they feel that it locks the users into third party technology and exposes their data across the Internet in violation of privacy that others could spy on it or capture it via packet sniffers .
So OSS developers try to avoid making cloud computing applications as a matter of personal ethics , etc.Cloud computing does not need to be insecure ( much of it is based on things like SSH and WS-Security , and nobody 's claiming that they 're desperately insecure ) though it is up to you to make the best use of them .
( Using them through a browser might be a less-good idea , but that 's because browser security is a real nasty fight .
But cloud computing is orthogonal to all that .
) There is also no inherent reason for lock-in at the basic service level ( at the full Software-as-a-Service level , it 's hard to avoid unless the software is available locally , but that usually involves dealing with the same software vendor anyway ) though that will require some standardization .
There are no real standards yet , of course , because this has all happened so rapidly ; it 's only now that we 're getting to the point where it makes sense to standardize .
You 're welcome to come and participate , helping to make this a diverse way of handling computing power for many people for decades .
But do n't come expecting people to adapt just to fit your prejudices ; if you want something , have a well-argued technical reason for it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Could Computing [wikipedia.org] is simply a service provided over the Internet that is scalable and virtualized.In short the software is in the web browser, while the data is stored somewhere else like on the servers.
The word "Cloud" is a metaphor for the Internet.You've misunderstood.
It's the servers that are virtualized, not (necessarily) the clients.
Indeed, cloud computing is not about the clients (that's "Web 2.0" that you've got mixed up with there).
[Leaving out lots of bits which stem from that basic error]The reason why open source developers don't support cloud computing is because they feel that it locks the users into third party technology and exposes their data across the Internet in violation of privacy that others could spy on it or capture it via packet sniffers.
So OSS developers try to avoid making cloud computing applications as a matter of personal ethics, etc.Cloud computing does not need to be insecure (much of it is based on things like SSH and WS-Security, and nobody's claiming that they're desperately insecure) though it is up to you to make the best use of them.
(Using them through a browser might be a less-good idea, but that's because browser security is a real nasty fight.
But cloud computing is orthogonal to all that.
)There is also no inherent reason for lock-in at the basic service level (at the full Software-as-a-Service level, it's hard to avoid unless the software is available locally, but that usually involves dealing with the same software vendor anyway) though that will require some standardization.
There are no real standards yet, of course, because this has all happened so rapidly; it's only now that we're getting to the point where it makes sense to standardize.
You're welcome to come and participate, helping to make this a diverse way of handling computing power for many people for decades.
But don't come expecting people to adapt just to fit your prejudices; if you want something, have a well-argued technical reason for it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575179</id>
	<title>Re:Battle with what?</title>
	<author>colinrichardday</author>
	<datestamp>1246616100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Come on people, most of Google's and Amazon's could are run by Linux / BSD with costume modifications to adapt to the task at hand.</i></p><p>So Beastie is going to dress as a penguin?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Come on people , most of Google 's and Amazon 's could are run by Linux / BSD with costume modifications to adapt to the task at hand.So Beastie is going to dress as a penguin ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come on people, most of Google's and Amazon's could are run by Linux / BSD with costume modifications to adapt to the task at hand.So Beastie is going to dress as a penguin?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574167</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28576559</id>
	<title>CFengine</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246628160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>www.cfengine.org</p><p>puppet and the people that push it make me very, very worried.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>www.cfengine.orgpuppet and the people that push it make me very , very worried .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>www.cfengine.orgpuppet and the people that push it make me very, very worried.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575451</id>
	<title>Cloud Computing made Possible by Open Source</title>
	<author>Hairy1</author>
	<datestamp>1246618260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The insanity of this article is that "Cloud Computing" has essentially been enabled by open source. Cloud computing is essentially putting huge data centres together with an architecture which supports massive parallelism. Hardware is cheap these days, but software before open source was expensive. And in the case of the OS that ran on that cheap hardware unreliable. Open Source has been the core enabler of companies like Google. Without technologies like Linux to build on Google and Amazon would not have been able to build out the infrastructure they have economically.</p><p>So what is this article saying? Well it seems to be saying that Open Source Vendors will not win in the Cloud space. Which is kind of an odd thing to say really, because Red Hat doesn't compete with the Googles and Amazons of the world. Once again we see the blinkered view that something is only worth anything if it can be sold for a pile of cash. The real power of Open Source isn't that some company can make a pile of cash by selling it; its that a pile more companies and individuals can save money by using it. How much money? Enough to allow the Googles and Amazons of the world to actually make a dollar themselves rather than shovelling it into software vendors.</p><p>As the article points out; there are some very serious software offerings that will help enable cloud computing - SpringSource dm Server being one of them, and OSGi in general. As discussed on slashdot earlier we need to start thinking about how to deal with data in a decentralized decoupled way in order to enable massive parallelism and redundancy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The insanity of this article is that " Cloud Computing " has essentially been enabled by open source .
Cloud computing is essentially putting huge data centres together with an architecture which supports massive parallelism .
Hardware is cheap these days , but software before open source was expensive .
And in the case of the OS that ran on that cheap hardware unreliable .
Open Source has been the core enabler of companies like Google .
Without technologies like Linux to build on Google and Amazon would not have been able to build out the infrastructure they have economically.So what is this article saying ?
Well it seems to be saying that Open Source Vendors will not win in the Cloud space .
Which is kind of an odd thing to say really , because Red Hat does n't compete with the Googles and Amazons of the world .
Once again we see the blinkered view that something is only worth anything if it can be sold for a pile of cash .
The real power of Open Source is n't that some company can make a pile of cash by selling it ; its that a pile more companies and individuals can save money by using it .
How much money ?
Enough to allow the Googles and Amazons of the world to actually make a dollar themselves rather than shovelling it into software vendors.As the article points out ; there are some very serious software offerings that will help enable cloud computing - SpringSource dm Server being one of them , and OSGi in general .
As discussed on slashdot earlier we need to start thinking about how to deal with data in a decentralized decoupled way in order to enable massive parallelism and redundancy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The insanity of this article is that "Cloud Computing" has essentially been enabled by open source.
Cloud computing is essentially putting huge data centres together with an architecture which supports massive parallelism.
Hardware is cheap these days, but software before open source was expensive.
And in the case of the OS that ran on that cheap hardware unreliable.
Open Source has been the core enabler of companies like Google.
Without technologies like Linux to build on Google and Amazon would not have been able to build out the infrastructure they have economically.So what is this article saying?
Well it seems to be saying that Open Source Vendors will not win in the Cloud space.
Which is kind of an odd thing to say really, because Red Hat doesn't compete with the Googles and Amazons of the world.
Once again we see the blinkered view that something is only worth anything if it can be sold for a pile of cash.
The real power of Open Source isn't that some company can make a pile of cash by selling it; its that a pile more companies and individuals can save money by using it.
How much money?
Enough to allow the Googles and Amazons of the world to actually make a dollar themselves rather than shovelling it into software vendors.As the article points out; there are some very serious software offerings that will help enable cloud computing - SpringSource dm Server being one of them, and OSGi in general.
As discussed on slashdot earlier we need to start thinking about how to deal with data in a decentralized decoupled way in order to enable massive parallelism and redundancy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574133</id>
	<title>Open source already absolutely relevant</title>
	<author>moderatorrater</author>
	<datestamp>1246651680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Aren't those vendors built on top of open source? If I remember correctly, Google uses their own Linux distribution, Amazon uses redhat, and I have no clue what salesforce uses but I imagine that it's probably some form of open source OS since they can save a lot of time and money using that instead of Windows when we're talking thousands of servers. The cloud revolution, if anything, was brought on my open source since it's made deploying thousands of servers cheap and easy. If the companies had to pay for licensing of software on all of those servers or roll their own OS, they would have built up (buying fewer, more powerful servers) rather than building out.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Are n't those vendors built on top of open source ?
If I remember correctly , Google uses their own Linux distribution , Amazon uses redhat , and I have no clue what salesforce uses but I imagine that it 's probably some form of open source OS since they can save a lot of time and money using that instead of Windows when we 're talking thousands of servers .
The cloud revolution , if anything , was brought on my open source since it 's made deploying thousands of servers cheap and easy .
If the companies had to pay for licensing of software on all of those servers or roll their own OS , they would have built up ( buying fewer , more powerful servers ) rather than building out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Aren't those vendors built on top of open source?
If I remember correctly, Google uses their own Linux distribution, Amazon uses redhat, and I have no clue what salesforce uses but I imagine that it's probably some form of open source OS since they can save a lot of time and money using that instead of Windows when we're talking thousands of servers.
The cloud revolution, if anything, was brought on my open source since it's made deploying thousands of servers cheap and easy.
If the companies had to pay for licensing of software on all of those servers or roll their own OS, they would have built up (buying fewer, more powerful servers) rather than building out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574325</id>
	<title>Re:Do we really need a cloud?</title>
	<author>jaydonnell</author>
	<datestamp>1246653000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>cloud computing doesn't have a clear definition, but if we are talking about things like big table and map reduce then it certainly isn't inefficient in a big picture way. It basically breaks down like this. If the data set you are working with can be handled by a single machine then that will always be more efficient, but if you know that your data set is too large for that then things like hadoop are a much better approach, and more efficient, than the traditional methods.</htmltext>
<tokenext>cloud computing does n't have a clear definition , but if we are talking about things like big table and map reduce then it certainly is n't inefficient in a big picture way .
It basically breaks down like this .
If the data set you are working with can be handled by a single machine then that will always be more efficient , but if you know that your data set is too large for that then things like hadoop are a much better approach , and more efficient , than the traditional methods .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>cloud computing doesn't have a clear definition, but if we are talking about things like big table and map reduce then it certainly isn't inefficient in a big picture way.
It basically breaks down like this.
If the data set you are working with can be handled by a single machine then that will always be more efficient, but if you know that your data set is too large for that then things like hadoop are a much better approach, and more efficient, than the traditional methods.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574269</id>
	<title>Clouds are not the whole of computing</title>
	<author>davecb</author>
	<datestamp>1246652640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd suggest that they are likely to grow to being an important part of computing, but no bigger than, for example, the large-server-and-Oracle part. (full disclosure: I'm a capacity planner, so most of my income comes from <i>just</i> that part).

</p><p>The disadvantage is that my cost per transaction is greater than if I had a steady load and ran my own machine room.
The fees I and the other customers pay a cloud service have to cover their whole machine room, whether it's it's busy or not, plus their profit.

</p><p>So I see a natural evolution for a growing business. While they're small, they'll build a LAMP or Java stack on a small machine in the back room.  If they grow slowly and steadily, they'll buy more, larger machines for the back room.  If they grow without bound, they'll jump to LAMP-on-cloud or Java-on-a-cloud, with a few code changes as possible.

</p><p>Once they have mastered that, they'll move back and forth, depending on the business growth rate. If they grow too fast, they'll do a lot in the cloud. If they grow slowly, they'll have a cloud presence, but try to process as much in their own machine room as they can, to improve the profit margins, using the cloud for  overflow and to run during my machine-room upgrade.

</p><p>Conclusion? common software between the cloud and the machine-room is important. Look for any standards developing in the LAMP/SAMP space, like the DMTF incubator at <a href="http://www.dmtf.org/about/cloud-incubator" title="dmtf.org">http://www.dmtf.org/about/cloud-incubator</a> [dmtf.org]
Look for Java offerings for business, like <a href="http://blogs.sun.com/cloud/entry/communityone\_cloud\_recap" title="sun.com">http://blogs.sun.com/cloud/entry/communityone\_cloud\_recap</a> [sun.com]
When you're there, specifically look for
virtual machines that will run in the cloud. Finally, look for load-balancing mechanisms that will send your work to two different places, under your control, sometimes called "application distributors".

</p><p>Don't assume open source is at a disadvantage: if you can run your stack on a free VM on a standard-conforming cloud, however commercial it might be,
then your computing can remain free of the control of others.

</p><p>--dave</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd suggest that they are likely to grow to being an important part of computing , but no bigger than , for example , the large-server-and-Oracle part .
( full disclosure : I 'm a capacity planner , so most of my income comes from just that part ) .
The disadvantage is that my cost per transaction is greater than if I had a steady load and ran my own machine room .
The fees I and the other customers pay a cloud service have to cover their whole machine room , whether it 's it 's busy or not , plus their profit .
So I see a natural evolution for a growing business .
While they 're small , they 'll build a LAMP or Java stack on a small machine in the back room .
If they grow slowly and steadily , they 'll buy more , larger machines for the back room .
If they grow without bound , they 'll jump to LAMP-on-cloud or Java-on-a-cloud , with a few code changes as possible .
Once they have mastered that , they 'll move back and forth , depending on the business growth rate .
If they grow too fast , they 'll do a lot in the cloud .
If they grow slowly , they 'll have a cloud presence , but try to process as much in their own machine room as they can , to improve the profit margins , using the cloud for overflow and to run during my machine-room upgrade .
Conclusion ? common software between the cloud and the machine-room is important .
Look for any standards developing in the LAMP/SAMP space , like the DMTF incubator at http : //www.dmtf.org/about/cloud-incubator [ dmtf.org ] Look for Java offerings for business , like http : //blogs.sun.com/cloud/entry/communityone \ _cloud \ _recap [ sun.com ] When you 're there , specifically look for virtual machines that will run in the cloud .
Finally , look for load-balancing mechanisms that will send your work to two different places , under your control , sometimes called " application distributors " .
Do n't assume open source is at a disadvantage : if you can run your stack on a free VM on a standard-conforming cloud , however commercial it might be , then your computing can remain free of the control of others .
--dave</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd suggest that they are likely to grow to being an important part of computing, but no bigger than, for example, the large-server-and-Oracle part.
(full disclosure: I'm a capacity planner, so most of my income comes from just that part).
The disadvantage is that my cost per transaction is greater than if I had a steady load and ran my own machine room.
The fees I and the other customers pay a cloud service have to cover their whole machine room, whether it's it's busy or not, plus their profit.
So I see a natural evolution for a growing business.
While they're small, they'll build a LAMP or Java stack on a small machine in the back room.
If they grow slowly and steadily, they'll buy more, larger machines for the back room.
If they grow without bound, they'll jump to LAMP-on-cloud or Java-on-a-cloud, with a few code changes as possible.
Once they have mastered that, they'll move back and forth, depending on the business growth rate.
If they grow too fast, they'll do a lot in the cloud.
If they grow slowly, they'll have a cloud presence, but try to process as much in their own machine room as they can, to improve the profit margins, using the cloud for  overflow and to run during my machine-room upgrade.
Conclusion? common software between the cloud and the machine-room is important.
Look for any standards developing in the LAMP/SAMP space, like the DMTF incubator at http://www.dmtf.org/about/cloud-incubator [dmtf.org]
Look for Java offerings for business, like http://blogs.sun.com/cloud/entry/communityone\_cloud\_recap [sun.com]
When you're there, specifically look for
virtual machines that will run in the cloud.
Finally, look for load-balancing mechanisms that will send your work to two different places, under your control, sometimes called "application distributors".
Don't assume open source is at a disadvantage: if you can run your stack on a free VM on a standard-conforming cloud, however commercial it might be,
then your computing can remain free of the control of others.
--dave</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575579</id>
	<title>Re:OSS also not a big player in cheeseburger marke</title>
	<author>Junta</author>
	<datestamp>1246619220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As with anything, it entirely depends on who you ask.</p><p>'Scalable' does seem to be nearly ubiquitous for the concept of what 'cloud computing' means.  Virtualization is common, but not a prerequisite.</p><p>Your description seems to indicate that a 'virtual machine' in this context is referring to the more application-style of what runs in the browser behaving like an application.  By and large, this style of making more extensive use of javascript to give a more 'desktop' feel to web applications is a mark of the 'Web 2.0' buzzword (though the context most widely credited with coining the phrase didn't speak to that at all).  When people talk about virtualization in the cloud, they almost always refer to OS instances being executed with a virtualization layer abstracting them from the real hardware (and making some of the more fatal hardware situations appear more like a simple reboot to the os instance, and other imminent failures no problem at all).  Some rely on higher-order application-level redundancy, and forgo the virtualization aspects (many of the IO intensive workloads are still very reluctant to embrace virtualization, for one).  Others even rely on 'user-level' redundancy (i.e. user sees a problem, hits refresh).</p><p>Some think of a cloud as a computing resource in which the usage picture is highly dynamic without strict mappings to where things must happen.</p><p>Some think of Cloud as a sort of spiritual successor to 'Thin Client', often extended to the internet.  Where Thin clients were almost universally thought of as essentially remote displays, the reinvention in the cloud context generally has a more sophisticated client that is fed data to interpret and manipulate, though it's nearly required that client-side data persistence not be a critical pre-requisite.  A total destruction of a 'client' in this definition of cloud has little more permanent consequence than 'thin clients'.  I.e., Valve's Steam, where you could throw your computer off the top of a building and theoretically recover all your purchases, and, for the games that support it, the settings you use.  In steam, the coupling between client and 'cloud' is relatively loose (some aspects can operate completely offline, and save-games may not fit the definition) , whereas 'google apps' is relatively tight.</p><p>phpBB could be considered a 'cloud' application, so could BBSes, so could a lot of things if they came to popularity *right now* instead of when they did.  Essentially, most all webapss meet *someone's* definition of cloud, and it's such a vague term with no authority behind it, no one can call them wrong for the most part.</p><p>I don't think OSS developers avoid making cloud applications no more than anything else.  The actual code behind many cloud computing implementations is OSS (Hadoop for one), but people refer not to the software, but to the popular sites that use the software.  OSS is a phenomenon built entirely around how software is designed and produced.  By most all definitions of cloud computing, it is a phenomenon that is built entirely around how software is put into implementation, usually with the characteristics that the users don't even know what software they are really using.</p><p>As far as OSS goes, cloud computing might actually be easier in that environment.  The companies know the value lies in the data being managed moreso than the software used to manage it, and will risk others leveraging more for the sake of outsourcing development costs to a community.  However, the philosophy behind OSS, as you say, may naturally lead some to worry about control of their data.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As with anything , it entirely depends on who you ask .
'Scalable ' does seem to be nearly ubiquitous for the concept of what 'cloud computing ' means .
Virtualization is common , but not a prerequisite.Your description seems to indicate that a 'virtual machine ' in this context is referring to the more application-style of what runs in the browser behaving like an application .
By and large , this style of making more extensive use of javascript to give a more 'desktop ' feel to web applications is a mark of the 'Web 2.0 ' buzzword ( though the context most widely credited with coining the phrase did n't speak to that at all ) .
When people talk about virtualization in the cloud , they almost always refer to OS instances being executed with a virtualization layer abstracting them from the real hardware ( and making some of the more fatal hardware situations appear more like a simple reboot to the os instance , and other imminent failures no problem at all ) .
Some rely on higher-order application-level redundancy , and forgo the virtualization aspects ( many of the IO intensive workloads are still very reluctant to embrace virtualization , for one ) .
Others even rely on 'user-level ' redundancy ( i.e .
user sees a problem , hits refresh ) .Some think of a cloud as a computing resource in which the usage picture is highly dynamic without strict mappings to where things must happen.Some think of Cloud as a sort of spiritual successor to 'Thin Client ' , often extended to the internet .
Where Thin clients were almost universally thought of as essentially remote displays , the reinvention in the cloud context generally has a more sophisticated client that is fed data to interpret and manipulate , though it 's nearly required that client-side data persistence not be a critical pre-requisite .
A total destruction of a 'client ' in this definition of cloud has little more permanent consequence than 'thin clients' .
I.e. , Valve 's Steam , where you could throw your computer off the top of a building and theoretically recover all your purchases , and , for the games that support it , the settings you use .
In steam , the coupling between client and 'cloud ' is relatively loose ( some aspects can operate completely offline , and save-games may not fit the definition ) , whereas 'google apps ' is relatively tight.phpBB could be considered a 'cloud ' application , so could BBSes , so could a lot of things if they came to popularity * right now * instead of when they did .
Essentially , most all webapss meet * someone 's * definition of cloud , and it 's such a vague term with no authority behind it , no one can call them wrong for the most part.I do n't think OSS developers avoid making cloud applications no more than anything else .
The actual code behind many cloud computing implementations is OSS ( Hadoop for one ) , but people refer not to the software , but to the popular sites that use the software .
OSS is a phenomenon built entirely around how software is designed and produced .
By most all definitions of cloud computing , it is a phenomenon that is built entirely around how software is put into implementation , usually with the characteristics that the users do n't even know what software they are really using.As far as OSS goes , cloud computing might actually be easier in that environment .
The companies know the value lies in the data being managed moreso than the software used to manage it , and will risk others leveraging more for the sake of outsourcing development costs to a community .
However , the philosophy behind OSS , as you say , may naturally lead some to worry about control of their data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As with anything, it entirely depends on who you ask.
'Scalable' does seem to be nearly ubiquitous for the concept of what 'cloud computing' means.
Virtualization is common, but not a prerequisite.Your description seems to indicate that a 'virtual machine' in this context is referring to the more application-style of what runs in the browser behaving like an application.
By and large, this style of making more extensive use of javascript to give a more 'desktop' feel to web applications is a mark of the 'Web 2.0' buzzword (though the context most widely credited with coining the phrase didn't speak to that at all).
When people talk about virtualization in the cloud, they almost always refer to OS instances being executed with a virtualization layer abstracting them from the real hardware (and making some of the more fatal hardware situations appear more like a simple reboot to the os instance, and other imminent failures no problem at all).
Some rely on higher-order application-level redundancy, and forgo the virtualization aspects (many of the IO intensive workloads are still very reluctant to embrace virtualization, for one).
Others even rely on 'user-level' redundancy (i.e.
user sees a problem, hits refresh).Some think of a cloud as a computing resource in which the usage picture is highly dynamic without strict mappings to where things must happen.Some think of Cloud as a sort of spiritual successor to 'Thin Client', often extended to the internet.
Where Thin clients were almost universally thought of as essentially remote displays, the reinvention in the cloud context generally has a more sophisticated client that is fed data to interpret and manipulate, though it's nearly required that client-side data persistence not be a critical pre-requisite.
A total destruction of a 'client' in this definition of cloud has little more permanent consequence than 'thin clients'.
I.e., Valve's Steam, where you could throw your computer off the top of a building and theoretically recover all your purchases, and, for the games that support it, the settings you use.
In steam, the coupling between client and 'cloud' is relatively loose (some aspects can operate completely offline, and save-games may not fit the definition) , whereas 'google apps' is relatively tight.phpBB could be considered a 'cloud' application, so could BBSes, so could a lot of things if they came to popularity *right now* instead of when they did.
Essentially, most all webapss meet *someone's* definition of cloud, and it's such a vague term with no authority behind it, no one can call them wrong for the most part.I don't think OSS developers avoid making cloud applications no more than anything else.
The actual code behind many cloud computing implementations is OSS (Hadoop for one), but people refer not to the software, but to the popular sites that use the software.
OSS is a phenomenon built entirely around how software is designed and produced.
By most all definitions of cloud computing, it is a phenomenon that is built entirely around how software is put into implementation, usually with the characteristics that the users don't even know what software they are really using.As far as OSS goes, cloud computing might actually be easier in that environment.
The companies know the value lies in the data being managed moreso than the software used to manage it, and will risk others leveraging more for the sake of outsourcing development costs to a community.
However, the philosophy behind OSS, as you say, may naturally lead some to worry about control of their data.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574531</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574391</id>
	<title>Built on standards vs. interoperates with them</title>
	<author>kozubik</author>
	<datestamp>1246653660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I couldn't care less what the cloud, or SAS, or software is running \_on\_.  What I care about is whether or not it provides open, standards-based interoperability.</p><p>Does Amazon s3 run on linux or bsd or WIndows ?  I don't know, but I do know that I can't just connect over plain old SFTP or WebDAV without major gimmickry and transformation.  (FWIW, providers like rsync.net do, in fact, allow direct, standards based interaction, so it's not impossible).</p><p>On the other hand, another cloud-like provider might run on a completely closed source, proprietary foundation, but if it provides plain old standards based interaction from the outside, who cares ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I could n't care less what the cloud , or SAS , or software is running \ _on \ _ .
What I care about is whether or not it provides open , standards-based interoperability.Does Amazon s3 run on linux or bsd or WIndows ?
I do n't know , but I do know that I ca n't just connect over plain old SFTP or WebDAV without major gimmickry and transformation .
( FWIW , providers like rsync.net do , in fact , allow direct , standards based interaction , so it 's not impossible ) .On the other hand , another cloud-like provider might run on a completely closed source , proprietary foundation , but if it provides plain old standards based interaction from the outside , who cares ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I couldn't care less what the cloud, or SAS, or software is running \_on\_.
What I care about is whether or not it provides open, standards-based interoperability.Does Amazon s3 run on linux or bsd or WIndows ?
I don't know, but I do know that I can't just connect over plain old SFTP or WebDAV without major gimmickry and transformation.
(FWIW, providers like rsync.net do, in fact, allow direct, standards based interaction, so it's not impossible).On the other hand, another cloud-like provider might run on a completely closed source, proprietary foundation, but if it provides plain old standards based interaction from the outside, who cares ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575669</id>
	<title>Re:OSS also not a big player in cheeseburger marke</title>
	<author>sound+vision</author>
	<datestamp>1246620000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Your weather.com systray icon isn't cloud computing, because it only shows the temperature. If it could display the radar maps showing cloud cover, THAT would be true cloud computing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Your weather.com systray icon is n't cloud computing , because it only shows the temperature .
If it could display the radar maps showing cloud cover , THAT would be true cloud computing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your weather.com systray icon isn't cloud computing, because it only shows the temperature.
If it could display the radar maps showing cloud cover, THAT would be true cloud computing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28597603</id>
	<title>Open Source Clouds are Possible</title>
	<author>TechWhiz</author>
	<datestamp>1246908720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't this Slashdot article pointing to the answer?

<a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/07/03/1248246" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/07/03/1248246</a> [slashdot.org]

Check out: <a href="http://www-jpc.physics.ox.ac.uk/applications\_cloud.html" title="ox.ac.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www-jpc.physics.ox.ac.uk/applications\_cloud.html</a> [ox.ac.uk]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't this Slashdot article pointing to the answer ?
http : //tech.slashdot.org/article.pl ? sid = 09/07/03/1248246 [ slashdot.org ] Check out : http : //www-jpc.physics.ox.ac.uk/applications \ _cloud.html [ ox.ac.uk ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't this Slashdot article pointing to the answer?
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/07/03/1248246 [slashdot.org]

Check out: http://www-jpc.physics.ox.ac.uk/applications\_cloud.html [ox.ac.uk]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574531</id>
	<title>Re:OSS also not a big player in cheeseburger marke</title>
	<author>Orion Blastar</author>
	<datestamp>1246654740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud\_computing" title="wikipedia.org">Could Computing</a> [wikipedia.org] is simply a service provided over the Internet that is scalable and virtualized.</p><p>In short the software is in the web browser, while the data is stored somewhere else like on the servers. The word "Cloud" is a metaphor for the Internet.</p><p>This is not just an ordinary web application, it usually involves a virtual machine of some sort so that the web applications acts like a desktop application within the web browser. One that can be scaled to handle an almost unlimited amount of users.</p><p>So for example the PHPBB2 Forum software is a web application, but not a Cloud Computing application. Google apps, on the other hand works via a virtual machine and software as a service so it qualifies for cloud computing applications. Google apps do GMail, Word Processing, Spreadsheet, etc in the web browser under a virtual machine but the data is stored on Google's servers.</p><p>The reason why open source developers don't support cloud computing is because they feel that it locks the users into third party technology and exposes their data across the Internet in violation of privacy that others could spy on it or capture it via packet sniffers. So OSS developers try to avoid making cloud computing applications as a matter of personal ethics, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could Computing [ wikipedia.org ] is simply a service provided over the Internet that is scalable and virtualized.In short the software is in the web browser , while the data is stored somewhere else like on the servers .
The word " Cloud " is a metaphor for the Internet.This is not just an ordinary web application , it usually involves a virtual machine of some sort so that the web applications acts like a desktop application within the web browser .
One that can be scaled to handle an almost unlimited amount of users.So for example the PHPBB2 Forum software is a web application , but not a Cloud Computing application .
Google apps , on the other hand works via a virtual machine and software as a service so it qualifies for cloud computing applications .
Google apps do GMail , Word Processing , Spreadsheet , etc in the web browser under a virtual machine but the data is stored on Google 's servers.The reason why open source developers do n't support cloud computing is because they feel that it locks the users into third party technology and exposes their data across the Internet in violation of privacy that others could spy on it or capture it via packet sniffers .
So OSS developers try to avoid making cloud computing applications as a matter of personal ethics , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could Computing [wikipedia.org] is simply a service provided over the Internet that is scalable and virtualized.In short the software is in the web browser, while the data is stored somewhere else like on the servers.
The word "Cloud" is a metaphor for the Internet.This is not just an ordinary web application, it usually involves a virtual machine of some sort so that the web applications acts like a desktop application within the web browser.
One that can be scaled to handle an almost unlimited amount of users.So for example the PHPBB2 Forum software is a web application, but not a Cloud Computing application.
Google apps, on the other hand works via a virtual machine and software as a service so it qualifies for cloud computing applications.
Google apps do GMail, Word Processing, Spreadsheet, etc in the web browser under a virtual machine but the data is stored on Google's servers.The reason why open source developers don't support cloud computing is because they feel that it locks the users into third party technology and exposes their data across the Internet in violation of privacy that others could spy on it or capture it via packet sniffers.
So OSS developers try to avoid making cloud computing applications as a matter of personal ethics, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575057</id>
	<title>Re:Physical hardware is needed here</title>
	<author>ratboy666</author>
	<datestamp>1246615140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your basic premise is wrong</p><p>"The larger companies (Google, Amazon) can afford the large iron and backend storage stacks [1]. For the uptimes that modern cloud storage has, the equipment costs are tremendous, because the machines that are able to do the large volume I/O over the net not just have to have performance, but be engineered around reliability, and that means large clusters distributed over geographically different regions storing identical data."</p><p>Google is based on Intel systems, although they have redesigned them a bit:</p><p><a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001\_3-10209580-92.html?part=rss&amp;subj=news&amp;tag=2547-1\_3-0-20" title="cnet.com">http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001\_3-10209580-92.html?part=rss&amp;subj=news&amp;tag=2547-1\_3-0-20</a> [cnet.com]</p><p>No "big iron" here, except that these systems are deployed 1,160 at a time.</p><p>Indeed, Google has so many consumer-level drives that they can publish stuff like:</p><p><a href="http://labs.google.com/papers/disk\_failures.pdf" title="google.com">http://labs.google.com/papers/disk\_failures.pdf</a> [google.com]</p><p>which gives a review of how good (or not) SMART is on drives.</p><p>Google (for one) uses commodity hardware -- lots of it. I would imagine that it would be too painful to FIND a failed system. They probably just ignore them and work around them (after all, they currently use 400,000 or 500,000 servers, maybe more). It's the "RAID" principle applied to systems. Not all 500,000 servers are going down at the same time, and new servers can be (and probably are being) continually deployed. An individual server has little redundancy (except for the battery Google puts in).</p><p>Amazon (S3, EC2) has to offer more redundancy to ensure that the customers image isn't lost. Google couldn't care -- at worst a bit of web indexing would need to be redone, or a client would have to reissue a search request. So, Amazon would have more "big iron" in the disk department.</p><p>But it is still (probably) cheaper to use two commodity drives!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your basic premise is wrong " The larger companies ( Google , Amazon ) can afford the large iron and backend storage stacks [ 1 ] .
For the uptimes that modern cloud storage has , the equipment costs are tremendous , because the machines that are able to do the large volume I/O over the net not just have to have performance , but be engineered around reliability , and that means large clusters distributed over geographically different regions storing identical data .
" Google is based on Intel systems , although they have redesigned them a bit : http : //news.cnet.com/8301-1001 \ _3-10209580-92.html ? part = rss&amp;subj = news&amp;tag = 2547-1 \ _3-0-20 [ cnet.com ] No " big iron " here , except that these systems are deployed 1,160 at a time.Indeed , Google has so many consumer-level drives that they can publish stuff like : http : //labs.google.com/papers/disk \ _failures.pdf [ google.com ] which gives a review of how good ( or not ) SMART is on drives.Google ( for one ) uses commodity hardware -- lots of it .
I would imagine that it would be too painful to FIND a failed system .
They probably just ignore them and work around them ( after all , they currently use 400,000 or 500,000 servers , maybe more ) .
It 's the " RAID " principle applied to systems .
Not all 500,000 servers are going down at the same time , and new servers can be ( and probably are being ) continually deployed .
An individual server has little redundancy ( except for the battery Google puts in ) .Amazon ( S3 , EC2 ) has to offer more redundancy to ensure that the customers image is n't lost .
Google could n't care -- at worst a bit of web indexing would need to be redone , or a client would have to reissue a search request .
So , Amazon would have more " big iron " in the disk department.But it is still ( probably ) cheaper to use two commodity drives !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your basic premise is wrong"The larger companies (Google, Amazon) can afford the large iron and backend storage stacks [1].
For the uptimes that modern cloud storage has, the equipment costs are tremendous, because the machines that are able to do the large volume I/O over the net not just have to have performance, but be engineered around reliability, and that means large clusters distributed over geographically different regions storing identical data.
"Google is based on Intel systems, although they have redesigned them a bit:http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001\_3-10209580-92.html?part=rss&amp;subj=news&amp;tag=2547-1\_3-0-20 [cnet.com]No "big iron" here, except that these systems are deployed 1,160 at a time.Indeed, Google has so many consumer-level drives that they can publish stuff like:http://labs.google.com/papers/disk\_failures.pdf [google.com]which gives a review of how good (or not) SMART is on drives.Google (for one) uses commodity hardware -- lots of it.
I would imagine that it would be too painful to FIND a failed system.
They probably just ignore them and work around them (after all, they currently use 400,000 or 500,000 servers, maybe more).
It's the "RAID" principle applied to systems.
Not all 500,000 servers are going down at the same time, and new servers can be (and probably are being) continually deployed.
An individual server has little redundancy (except for the battery Google puts in).Amazon (S3, EC2) has to offer more redundancy to ensure that the customers image isn't lost.
Google couldn't care -- at worst a bit of web indexing would need to be redone, or a client would have to reissue a search request.
So, Amazon would have more "big iron" in the disk department.But it is still (probably) cheaper to use two commodity drives!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574159</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28579583</id>
	<title>GPL unxsVZ autonomics running OpenVZ fsck private</title>
	<author>ctdownunder</author>
	<datestamp>1246717140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are many great GPL projects. With GPL unxsVZ running 2-3 servers in 4 datacenters in the UK and the US we have survived just fine, fried servers, being slashdotted (no URLs here<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;), dumb rack space resellers, etc. How? With the important part of the cloud (cloud=marketing BS): Autonomics for HA for all three important web computing areas IaaS , SaaS and PaaS.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are many great GPL projects .
With GPL unxsVZ running 2-3 servers in 4 datacenters in the UK and the US we have survived just fine , fried servers , being slashdotted ( no URLs here ; ) , dumb rack space resellers , etc .
How ? With the important part of the cloud ( cloud = marketing BS ) : Autonomics for HA for all three important web computing areas IaaS , SaaS and PaaS .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are many great GPL projects.
With GPL unxsVZ running 2-3 servers in 4 datacenters in the UK and the US we have survived just fine, fried servers, being slashdotted (no URLs here ;), dumb rack space resellers, etc.
How? With the important part of the cloud (cloud=marketing BS): Autonomics for HA for all three important web computing areas IaaS , SaaS and PaaS.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574123</id>
	<title>Salesforce is Software not Hardware</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246651560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Salesforce runs on ~ 1000 Dell servers (and thats with redundancy).  Hate to say it, but Salesforce is a great example of making a very slim product (it only did just barely enough to begin with) but very efficient.  The products limitations are endlessly frustrating but the sales pitch was fantastic.  Salesforce is not about spending huge amounts of Money - its about making it.  They have 55,000 customers and 1.5M user accounts...<br>http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/03/23/the-efficient-cloud-all-of-salesforce-runs-on-only-1000-servers/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Salesforce runs on ~ 1000 Dell servers ( and thats with redundancy ) .
Hate to say it , but Salesforce is a great example of making a very slim product ( it only did just barely enough to begin with ) but very efficient .
The products limitations are endlessly frustrating but the sales pitch was fantastic .
Salesforce is not about spending huge amounts of Money - its about making it .
They have 55,000 customers and 1.5M user accounts...http : //www.techcrunch.com/2009/03/23/the-efficient-cloud-all-of-salesforce-runs-on-only-1000-servers/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Salesforce runs on ~ 1000 Dell servers (and thats with redundancy).
Hate to say it, but Salesforce is a great example of making a very slim product (it only did just barely enough to begin with) but very efficient.
The products limitations are endlessly frustrating but the sales pitch was fantastic.
Salesforce is not about spending huge amounts of Money - its about making it.
They have 55,000 customers and 1.5M user accounts...http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/03/23/the-efficient-cloud-all-of-salesforce-runs-on-only-1000-servers/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575971</id>
	<title>Re:Too many anaologies in the summary</title>
	<author>Eli Gottlieb</author>
	<datestamp>1246622880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And a subtle, suave, sexy reference to Futurama's own Captain Zapp Brannigan.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And a subtle , suave , sexy reference to Futurama 's own Captain Zapp Brannigan .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And a subtle, suave, sexy reference to Futurama's own Captain Zapp Brannigan.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574067</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574381</id>
	<title>In a world . . .</title>
	<author>joek1010</author>
	<datestamp>1246653480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anybody else read that in the movie preview voice? It was really exciting until about the 3rd sentence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anybody else read that in the movie preview voice ?
It was really exciting until about the 3rd sentence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anybody else read that in the movie preview voice?
It was really exciting until about the 3rd sentence.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28587083</id>
	<title>Re:Crybaby</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246817700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually the problem with breaking into cloud computing is that software is nearly meaningless compared to the amount of hardware power that you need.  Only a couple of big companies are able to afford and put together hardware networks on the scale that is needed for cloud computing to work.  Your talking millions of dollars just in hardware much less electricity and cooling every year.  I can't think of any OSS group that would be capable of maintaining that.  And each of those companies is going to want a proprietary system to give them their competitive advantage.  There might be some integration but I'm guessing the internals of their systems are going to very closed off (think googles search algorithms for one)  They might use some piece or two but they won't release those pieces back.  How efficient the systems are may also be irrelevent if you have enough hardware and I suspect we will see the different offerings optimized differently.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually the problem with breaking into cloud computing is that software is nearly meaningless compared to the amount of hardware power that you need .
Only a couple of big companies are able to afford and put together hardware networks on the scale that is needed for cloud computing to work .
Your talking millions of dollars just in hardware much less electricity and cooling every year .
I ca n't think of any OSS group that would be capable of maintaining that .
And each of those companies is going to want a proprietary system to give them their competitive advantage .
There might be some integration but I 'm guessing the internals of their systems are going to very closed off ( think googles search algorithms for one ) They might use some piece or two but they wo n't release those pieces back .
How efficient the systems are may also be irrelevent if you have enough hardware and I suspect we will see the different offerings optimized differently .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually the problem with breaking into cloud computing is that software is nearly meaningless compared to the amount of hardware power that you need.
Only a couple of big companies are able to afford and put together hardware networks on the scale that is needed for cloud computing to work.
Your talking millions of dollars just in hardware much less electricity and cooling every year.
I can't think of any OSS group that would be capable of maintaining that.
And each of those companies is going to want a proprietary system to give them their competitive advantage.
There might be some integration but I'm guessing the internals of their systems are going to very closed off (think googles search algorithms for one)  They might use some piece or two but they won't release those pieces back.
How efficient the systems are may also be irrelevent if you have enough hardware and I suspect we will see the different offerings optimized differently.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574091</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574657</id>
	<title>or oss clouds on distributed desktops</title>
	<author>Kargoroth</author>
	<datestamp>1246612380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>if open source could employ the bandwidth and computing powers of the masses, would it change the david vs goliath theme? <br>

its more in the spirit of oss anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>if open source could employ the bandwidth and computing powers of the masses , would it change the david vs goliath theme ?
its more in the spirit of oss anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if open source could employ the bandwidth and computing powers of the masses, would it change the david vs goliath theme?
its more in the spirit of oss anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574507</id>
	<title>Citizens and nations</title>
	<author>jellybear</author>
	<datestamp>1246654620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is like saying that a responsible citizen will never be able to replace a nation state, so we might as well give up. You, as an individual, or as an open source project, have a slim chance of replacing Google, or Amazon, or Salesforce. But, through an open source project, you can alter the rules of the game, and you CAN profoundly affect those big companies, how they operate, what work their employees do, what services they offer their customers, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is like saying that a responsible citizen will never be able to replace a nation state , so we might as well give up .
You , as an individual , or as an open source project , have a slim chance of replacing Google , or Amazon , or Salesforce .
But , through an open source project , you can alter the rules of the game , and you CAN profoundly affect those big companies , how they operate , what work their employees do , what services they offer their customers , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is like saying that a responsible citizen will never be able to replace a nation state, so we might as well give up.
You, as an individual, or as an open source project, have a slim chance of replacing Google, or Amazon, or Salesforce.
But, through an open source project, you can alter the rules of the game, and you CAN profoundly affect those big companies, how they operate, what work their employees do, what services they offer their customers, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574839</id>
	<title>Open source is not a profit model</title>
	<author>billcopc</author>
	<datestamp>1246613700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The way I see it, cloud computing, at least in its current form, is a business model.  It is a buzzword that helps print more money, in lieu of actual innovation.  It's the internet's idea of a make-work project.</p><p>Open source cliques don't give a flying fuck about business models.  Linux wasn't created to satisfy some whiney douchebag on CNet, it was created because it served the needs of a small niche of hackers, and it snowballed from there.  The way things are right now, real geeks don't care so much about cloud computing, they see it as a fad that doesn't bring tangible improvements to the computing experience.  Most providers' cloud stuff is just fully-automated VM provisioning anyway.  What's the big deal ?  Who cares if a server is really a VM sitting in some big-label datacenter ?  There's nothing revolutionary about it.  Frankly you could build a buzzword-compliant cloud using the Xen API and some ugly-ass python scripts.  You don't need anything fancy, in fact the fanciest thing about Amazon's cloud is the front-end and billing system, IMHO.</p><p>If and when a legitimate need is identified, some kind geek will take the time to do it right.  It smells like an Apache project to me...  but without a clearly defined need, there is no motivation, and without motivation there is no open source project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The way I see it , cloud computing , at least in its current form , is a business model .
It is a buzzword that helps print more money , in lieu of actual innovation .
It 's the internet 's idea of a make-work project.Open source cliques do n't give a flying fuck about business models .
Linux was n't created to satisfy some whiney douchebag on CNet , it was created because it served the needs of a small niche of hackers , and it snowballed from there .
The way things are right now , real geeks do n't care so much about cloud computing , they see it as a fad that does n't bring tangible improvements to the computing experience .
Most providers ' cloud stuff is just fully-automated VM provisioning anyway .
What 's the big deal ?
Who cares if a server is really a VM sitting in some big-label datacenter ?
There 's nothing revolutionary about it .
Frankly you could build a buzzword-compliant cloud using the Xen API and some ugly-ass python scripts .
You do n't need anything fancy , in fact the fanciest thing about Amazon 's cloud is the front-end and billing system , IMHO.If and when a legitimate need is identified , some kind geek will take the time to do it right .
It smells like an Apache project to me... but without a clearly defined need , there is no motivation , and without motivation there is no open source project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The way I see it, cloud computing, at least in its current form, is a business model.
It is a buzzword that helps print more money, in lieu of actual innovation.
It's the internet's idea of a make-work project.Open source cliques don't give a flying fuck about business models.
Linux wasn't created to satisfy some whiney douchebag on CNet, it was created because it served the needs of a small niche of hackers, and it snowballed from there.
The way things are right now, real geeks don't care so much about cloud computing, they see it as a fad that doesn't bring tangible improvements to the computing experience.
Most providers' cloud stuff is just fully-automated VM provisioning anyway.
What's the big deal ?
Who cares if a server is really a VM sitting in some big-label datacenter ?
There's nothing revolutionary about it.
Frankly you could build a buzzword-compliant cloud using the Xen API and some ugly-ass python scripts.
You don't need anything fancy, in fact the fanciest thing about Amazon's cloud is the front-end and billing system, IMHO.If and when a legitimate need is identified, some kind geek will take the time to do it right.
It smells like an Apache project to me...  but without a clearly defined need, there is no motivation, and without motivation there is no open source project.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574161</id>
	<title>A cloud is only a base</title>
	<author>SuperKendall</author>
	<datestamp>1246651860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't see how Open Source is not more relevant with the advent of cloud computing - sure no small startup can put up a gigantic server farm, but who cares when what's running on all the servers is open source software, and the services written atop THAT are also using open technologies?</p><p>There's plenty of room for a small open source company to add a ton of value atop the raw cloud space.  Having so many options means businesses will be grateful to anyone who can cull down the selection to a small set and make it easy to work with.  Think "Apple in the Clouds".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see how Open Source is not more relevant with the advent of cloud computing - sure no small startup can put up a gigantic server farm , but who cares when what 's running on all the servers is open source software , and the services written atop THAT are also using open technologies ? There 's plenty of room for a small open source company to add a ton of value atop the raw cloud space .
Having so many options means businesses will be grateful to anyone who can cull down the selection to a small set and make it easy to work with .
Think " Apple in the Clouds " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see how Open Source is not more relevant with the advent of cloud computing - sure no small startup can put up a gigantic server farm, but who cares when what's running on all the servers is open source software, and the services written atop THAT are also using open technologies?There's plenty of room for a small open source company to add a ton of value atop the raw cloud space.
Having so many options means businesses will be grateful to anyone who can cull down the selection to a small set and make it easy to work with.
Think "Apple in the Clouds".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28584435</id>
	<title>Shortsighted</title>
	<author>fabs64</author>
	<datestamp>1246728000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Professor Frink: Well, sure, the Frinkiac-7 looks impressive, don't touch it, but I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them.</p><p>Summary:in terms of the entry cost to compete, and where big vendors like Amazon and Google are already divvying up the market, the odds of a small-fry, open-source start-up challenging 'Goliath' are slim. It's not a new argument: Nick Carr has been suggesting for some time that only a few, big companies can afford relevance in this hardware-intensive business</p><p>Sure, if you start off with an assumption that that statement is and always will be correct then there may be a problem. But uh, why are we assuming it's correct?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Professor Frink : Well , sure , the Frinkiac-7 looks impressive , do n't touch it , but I predict that within 100 years , computers will be twice as powerful , 10,000 times larger , and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them.Summary : in terms of the entry cost to compete , and where big vendors like Amazon and Google are already divvying up the market , the odds of a small-fry , open-source start-up challenging 'Goliath ' are slim .
It 's not a new argument : Nick Carr has been suggesting for some time that only a few , big companies can afford relevance in this hardware-intensive businessSure , if you start off with an assumption that that statement is and always will be correct then there may be a problem .
But uh , why are we assuming it 's correct ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Professor Frink: Well, sure, the Frinkiac-7 looks impressive, don't touch it, but I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them.Summary:in terms of the entry cost to compete, and where big vendors like Amazon and Google are already divvying up the market, the odds of a small-fry, open-source start-up challenging 'Goliath' are slim.
It's not a new argument: Nick Carr has been suggesting for some time that only a few, big companies can afford relevance in this hardware-intensive businessSure, if you start off with an assumption that that statement is and always will be correct then there may be a problem.
But uh, why are we assuming it's correct?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574215</id>
	<title>You could say OSS's future in cloud computing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246652280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...is up in the air.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...is up in the air .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...is up in the air.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574365</id>
	<title>Red Herring?</title>
	<author>Fuseboy</author>
	<datestamp>1246653360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Gotta say, this sounds like a red herring to me. Although it may not look like it to those of us in the desktop generation, the cloud vendors are really providing us with a big computer, and operating it for us.  If that big computer runs your custom Linux distro in a VM, is this materially different than running your custom stack on hardware provided and operated by your local ISP?</p><p>I think cloud hegemony more worrying.  For a long time we've had different development camps focused on different technologies.  But that didn't stop Microsoft buying Hotmail (though it raised eyebrows).</p><p>But imagine the potential for feudal-style woe if you're trying to sell your plucky "10,000 customers and growing rapidly" startup to Microsoft, when the entire operation runs inside a Microsoft competitors' cloud?</p><p>Or how about if you find yourself actively competing with your cloud vendor?  iPhone app writers are facing this now.  What if it becomes the prevailing situation?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Got ta say , this sounds like a red herring to me .
Although it may not look like it to those of us in the desktop generation , the cloud vendors are really providing us with a big computer , and operating it for us .
If that big computer runs your custom Linux distro in a VM , is this materially different than running your custom stack on hardware provided and operated by your local ISP ? I think cloud hegemony more worrying .
For a long time we 've had different development camps focused on different technologies .
But that did n't stop Microsoft buying Hotmail ( though it raised eyebrows ) .But imagine the potential for feudal-style woe if you 're trying to sell your plucky " 10,000 customers and growing rapidly " startup to Microsoft , when the entire operation runs inside a Microsoft competitors ' cloud ? Or how about if you find yourself actively competing with your cloud vendor ?
iPhone app writers are facing this now .
What if it becomes the prevailing situation ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gotta say, this sounds like a red herring to me.
Although it may not look like it to those of us in the desktop generation, the cloud vendors are really providing us with a big computer, and operating it for us.
If that big computer runs your custom Linux distro in a VM, is this materially different than running your custom stack on hardware provided and operated by your local ISP?I think cloud hegemony more worrying.
For a long time we've had different development camps focused on different technologies.
But that didn't stop Microsoft buying Hotmail (though it raised eyebrows).But imagine the potential for feudal-style woe if you're trying to sell your plucky "10,000 customers and growing rapidly" startup to Microsoft, when the entire operation runs inside a Microsoft competitors' cloud?Or how about if you find yourself actively competing with your cloud vendor?
iPhone app writers are facing this now.
What if it becomes the prevailing situation?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28580305</id>
	<title>yawn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246724100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>why say the most obvious slashtarded thing you could think of in a matter of seconds?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>why say the most obvious slashtarded thing you could think of in a matter of seconds ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>why say the most obvious slashtarded thing you could think of in a matter of seconds?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28579019</id>
	<title>What about niftyname?</title>
	<author>Giloo</author>
	<datestamp>1246706940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What about incentives like <a href="http://www.niftyname.org/" title="niftyname.org" rel="nofollow">Niftyname</a> [niftyname.org], an opensource HaaS system made by a French ISP?

Or <a href="http://ovirt.org/" title="ovirt.org" rel="nofollow">oVirt</a> [ovirt.org], the virtualization system from RedHat?

Given how the "cloud" is ready today, I'd say those things are far from being late.. Maybe they need more attention?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What about incentives like Niftyname [ niftyname.org ] , an opensource HaaS system made by a French ISP ?
Or oVirt [ ovirt.org ] , the virtualization system from RedHat ?
Given how the " cloud " is ready today , I 'd say those things are far from being late.. Maybe they need more attention ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about incentives like Niftyname [niftyname.org], an opensource HaaS system made by a French ISP?
Or oVirt [ovirt.org], the virtualization system from RedHat?
Given how the "cloud" is ready today, I'd say those things are far from being late.. Maybe they need more attention?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574631</id>
	<title>If I remember correctly,</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246612200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... didn't David won?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... did n't David won ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... didn't David won?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574577</id>
	<title>Cloud computing will not be relevant forever</title>
	<author>1 a bee</author>
	<datestamp>1246611840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is perhaps offtopic, but cloud computing probably wont be relevant forever. It is hard to imagine, however, how open source will not remain relevant. More than just code, open source is a part of a collective heritage that assimilates the new and builds on the old. It's a tall argument to say that one's heritage may some day become irrelevant.
<p>
Below some (offtopic) thoughts on why cloud computing may not stay relevant (if it is, right now) into the future.
</p><ul>
<li>Geometric growth rate of hardware performance at the ends of the network may meet most application needs. To wit, recall the ephemerally named classic <a href="http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/mg/" title="mu.oz.au">Managing Gigabytes</a> [mu.oz.au] (although, of course, the content of that book is even more relevant to today's data sizes).</li><li>Open source focus may shift away to the ends of the network. Think p2p, or the desktop.</li><li>Cloud computing may get commoditized. The drivers behind this may be portability (businesses may not want to commit to a single cloud provider), and yes, open source. Open source is often behind the feature curve when compared to closed source, but it's stronger in assimilating new features and ideas that come into vogue.</li></ul></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is perhaps offtopic , but cloud computing probably wont be relevant forever .
It is hard to imagine , however , how open source will not remain relevant .
More than just code , open source is a part of a collective heritage that assimilates the new and builds on the old .
It 's a tall argument to say that one 's heritage may some day become irrelevant .
Below some ( offtopic ) thoughts on why cloud computing may not stay relevant ( if it is , right now ) into the future .
Geometric growth rate of hardware performance at the ends of the network may meet most application needs .
To wit , recall the ephemerally named classic Managing Gigabytes [ mu.oz.au ] ( although , of course , the content of that book is even more relevant to today 's data sizes ) .Open source focus may shift away to the ends of the network .
Think p2p , or the desktop.Cloud computing may get commoditized .
The drivers behind this may be portability ( businesses may not want to commit to a single cloud provider ) , and yes , open source .
Open source is often behind the feature curve when compared to closed source , but it 's stronger in assimilating new features and ideas that come into vogue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is perhaps offtopic, but cloud computing probably wont be relevant forever.
It is hard to imagine, however, how open source will not remain relevant.
More than just code, open source is a part of a collective heritage that assimilates the new and builds on the old.
It's a tall argument to say that one's heritage may some day become irrelevant.
Below some (offtopic) thoughts on why cloud computing may not stay relevant (if it is, right now) into the future.
Geometric growth rate of hardware performance at the ends of the network may meet most application needs.
To wit, recall the ephemerally named classic Managing Gigabytes [mu.oz.au] (although, of course, the content of that book is even more relevant to today's data sizes).Open source focus may shift away to the ends of the network.
Think p2p, or the desktop.Cloud computing may get commoditized.
The drivers behind this may be portability (businesses may not want to commit to a single cloud provider), and yes, open source.
Open source is often behind the feature curve when compared to closed source, but it's stronger in assimilating new features and ideas that come into vogue.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28577951</id>
	<title>Yes to both!</title>
	<author>jd.schmidt</author>
	<datestamp>1246645440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That is pretty much correct, cloud computing is a technology idea, it is just marketed as Google or MS hosting your apps.  But successful cloud computing will require portability.  Even if, for some reason, I want to host all my apps at company X, I am a total idiot if I don't know how to migrate them into another data center or bring them back home!  Since this open system portability will be demanded, it is hard to see how open system cloud environments won't be mandatory.  If you really understand cloud computing, you will also understand why MS is doing everything in their power to take down VM Ware.  What is better, this is actually a battle the open source community can win.  Not only can open source compete with players but applications can be packaged with an OS wrapper and largely preconfigured, your average user will no longer care what OS the application is in, just if they can use it.</p><p>What's more ESX server may not techinally be Linux (don't know how this is measured) but it sure smells totally Unix like to me (OK I am not an expert on this).</p><p>And yes, LOL bot nets are and early example of new computing trends.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That is pretty much correct , cloud computing is a technology idea , it is just marketed as Google or MS hosting your apps .
But successful cloud computing will require portability .
Even if , for some reason , I want to host all my apps at company X , I am a total idiot if I do n't know how to migrate them into another data center or bring them back home !
Since this open system portability will be demanded , it is hard to see how open system cloud environments wo n't be mandatory .
If you really understand cloud computing , you will also understand why MS is doing everything in their power to take down VM Ware .
What is better , this is actually a battle the open source community can win .
Not only can open source compete with players but applications can be packaged with an OS wrapper and largely preconfigured , your average user will no longer care what OS the application is in , just if they can use it.What 's more ESX server may not techinally be Linux ( do n't know how this is measured ) but it sure smells totally Unix like to me ( OK I am not an expert on this ) .And yes , LOL bot nets are and early example of new computing trends .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That is pretty much correct, cloud computing is a technology idea, it is just marketed as Google or MS hosting your apps.
But successful cloud computing will require portability.
Even if, for some reason, I want to host all my apps at company X, I am a total idiot if I don't know how to migrate them into another data center or bring them back home!
Since this open system portability will be demanded, it is hard to see how open system cloud environments won't be mandatory.
If you really understand cloud computing, you will also understand why MS is doing everything in their power to take down VM Ware.
What is better, this is actually a battle the open source community can win.
Not only can open source compete with players but applications can be packaged with an OS wrapper and largely preconfigured, your average user will no longer care what OS the application is in, just if they can use it.What's more ESX server may not techinally be Linux (don't know how this is measured) but it sure smells totally Unix like to me (OK I am not an expert on this).And yes, LOL bot nets are and early example of new computing trends.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574207</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574091</id>
	<title>Crybaby</title>
	<author>rodrigoandrade</author>
	<datestamp>1246651260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Really, is this situation THAT MUCH different from what we have today?? What are the chances of a small mom-and-pop start up create a virtual bookstore to rival Amazon, or an Internet services infrastucture empire to rival Google??</htmltext>
<tokenext>Really , is this situation THAT MUCH different from what we have today ? ?
What are the chances of a small mom-and-pop start up create a virtual bookstore to rival Amazon , or an Internet services infrastucture empire to rival Google ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really, is this situation THAT MUCH different from what we have today??
What are the chances of a small mom-and-pop start up create a virtual bookstore to rival Amazon, or an Internet services infrastucture empire to rival Google?
?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574067</id>
	<title>Too many anaologies in the summary</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246651080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But if open-source can hit the bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But if open-source can hit the bullseye , the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards .
Checkmate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But if open-source can hit the bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards.
Checkmate.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28581297</id>
	<title>Re:Do we really need a cloud?</title>
	<author>dkf</author>
	<datestamp>1246732320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I really don't understand the long-term value proposition of running your stuff on a public cloud.</p></div><p>The big value propositions are this: Reduced spend on datacenters, and increased flexibility.</p><p>It costs a shitload of cash (which might or might not be similar in size to a fuckton of cash) to put together and operate a datacenter. In particular, the costs of the building, the power and the cooling are really large. A well-designed deployment can cut these costs dramatically, but that's hard to do right. Why do it yourself when you can pay for someone else's expertise and get what you really want (storage, computation, etc.) for less?</p><p>The other big gain is increased flexibility, especially for end users who can seize opportunities much more easily if they can get a new system up and going in a day or two. Contrast this with the situation with many traditional info-systems organizations where it might take 6 months or more (and a major project) just to get some small system going because of fights over provisioning and long-term support. Sometimes those fights are important, but if IS is imposing them on everyone then many chances are getting lost to the business overall because it is too hard to grab them.</p><p>This isn't to say that nobody can beat a cloud provider, and sometimes there are good reasons for not going to one even if it would make financial sense and take longer. But to say that you can't understand doing it at all, that's just demonstrating your lack of awareness of the real costs, financial and opportunity.</p><p>(As for Open Source, I can't see why there's a kerfuffle over this. Cloud Computing is all about services, some of which are implemented with OSS and some of which aren't. If the service interface is well-enough described, it should be possible to reimplement it - or at least the software part - in pure OSS without too much difficulty. But the non-software parts matter too, and have real ongoing costs.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I really do n't understand the long-term value proposition of running your stuff on a public cloud.The big value propositions are this : Reduced spend on datacenters , and increased flexibility.It costs a shitload of cash ( which might or might not be similar in size to a fuckton of cash ) to put together and operate a datacenter .
In particular , the costs of the building , the power and the cooling are really large .
A well-designed deployment can cut these costs dramatically , but that 's hard to do right .
Why do it yourself when you can pay for someone else 's expertise and get what you really want ( storage , computation , etc .
) for less ? The other big gain is increased flexibility , especially for end users who can seize opportunities much more easily if they can get a new system up and going in a day or two .
Contrast this with the situation with many traditional info-systems organizations where it might take 6 months or more ( and a major project ) just to get some small system going because of fights over provisioning and long-term support .
Sometimes those fights are important , but if IS is imposing them on everyone then many chances are getting lost to the business overall because it is too hard to grab them.This is n't to say that nobody can beat a cloud provider , and sometimes there are good reasons for not going to one even if it would make financial sense and take longer .
But to say that you ca n't understand doing it at all , that 's just demonstrating your lack of awareness of the real costs , financial and opportunity .
( As for Open Source , I ca n't see why there 's a kerfuffle over this .
Cloud Computing is all about services , some of which are implemented with OSS and some of which are n't .
If the service interface is well-enough described , it should be possible to reimplement it - or at least the software part - in pure OSS without too much difficulty .
But the non-software parts matter too , and have real ongoing costs .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really don't understand the long-term value proposition of running your stuff on a public cloud.The big value propositions are this: Reduced spend on datacenters, and increased flexibility.It costs a shitload of cash (which might or might not be similar in size to a fuckton of cash) to put together and operate a datacenter.
In particular, the costs of the building, the power and the cooling are really large.
A well-designed deployment can cut these costs dramatically, but that's hard to do right.
Why do it yourself when you can pay for someone else's expertise and get what you really want (storage, computation, etc.
) for less?The other big gain is increased flexibility, especially for end users who can seize opportunities much more easily if they can get a new system up and going in a day or two.
Contrast this with the situation with many traditional info-systems organizations where it might take 6 months or more (and a major project) just to get some small system going because of fights over provisioning and long-term support.
Sometimes those fights are important, but if IS is imposing them on everyone then many chances are getting lost to the business overall because it is too hard to grab them.This isn't to say that nobody can beat a cloud provider, and sometimes there are good reasons for not going to one even if it would make financial sense and take longer.
But to say that you can't understand doing it at all, that's just demonstrating your lack of awareness of the real costs, financial and opportunity.
(As for Open Source, I can't see why there's a kerfuffle over this.
Cloud Computing is all about services, some of which are implemented with OSS and some of which aren't.
If the service interface is well-enough described, it should be possible to reimplement it - or at least the software part - in pure OSS without too much difficulty.
But the non-software parts matter too, and have real ongoing costs.
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28578577</id>
	<title>Re:Salesforce is Software not Hardware</title>
	<author>BitZtream</author>
	<datestamp>1246698060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Guess you didn't bother to read the comments where he said 'the dell picture is just one I had, not one of their servers'</p><p>Salesforce's numbers are not impressive in the least with the knowledge provided.  Now if they come back and say that the 1k servers is including all networking and storage equipment, I'll be a little more impressed.  If they said they did it using 1k U s (as in rack space, total).  Then I would be more inclined to want to know how they work.  Otherwise, not impressive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Guess you did n't bother to read the comments where he said 'the dell picture is just one I had , not one of their servers'Salesforce 's numbers are not impressive in the least with the knowledge provided .
Now if they come back and say that the 1k servers is including all networking and storage equipment , I 'll be a little more impressed .
If they said they did it using 1k U s ( as in rack space , total ) .
Then I would be more inclined to want to know how they work .
Otherwise , not impressive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Guess you didn't bother to read the comments where he said 'the dell picture is just one I had, not one of their servers'Salesforce's numbers are not impressive in the least with the knowledge provided.
Now if they come back and say that the 1k servers is including all networking and storage equipment, I'll be a little more impressed.
If they said they did it using 1k U s (as in rack space, total).
Then I would be more inclined to want to know how they work.
Otherwise, not impressive.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575155</id>
	<title>What the hell is cloud computing anyway?</title>
	<author>SpoodyGoon</author>
	<datestamp>1246615860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I realize I must be really behind the times or not real bright, I just can't seem to understand what cloud computing really is. I lease a web server and a database from a company I trust they take care of the maintenance and update for it. I'm pretty sure this web server and database is running on a virtual machine, it's accessed through either web services or through http so it's a cloud right? If i need more space I simply pay for a little more and like magic more space appears, I need a different technology (e.g. a php instead of ASP.NET) and once again like magic it appears. <br> <br>

I simply cannot understand what the difference between providing a server and database to someone for a fee, which has been going on for a long time now, and a cloud. I look forward to finally learning what the hell a cloud is because I just don't seem to get it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I realize I must be really behind the times or not real bright , I just ca n't seem to understand what cloud computing really is .
I lease a web server and a database from a company I trust they take care of the maintenance and update for it .
I 'm pretty sure this web server and database is running on a virtual machine , it 's accessed through either web services or through http so it 's a cloud right ?
If i need more space I simply pay for a little more and like magic more space appears , I need a different technology ( e.g .
a php instead of ASP.NET ) and once again like magic it appears .
I simply can not understand what the difference between providing a server and database to someone for a fee , which has been going on for a long time now , and a cloud .
I look forward to finally learning what the hell a cloud is because I just do n't seem to get it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I realize I must be really behind the times or not real bright, I just can't seem to understand what cloud computing really is.
I lease a web server and a database from a company I trust they take care of the maintenance and update for it.
I'm pretty sure this web server and database is running on a virtual machine, it's accessed through either web services or through http so it's a cloud right?
If i need more space I simply pay for a little more and like magic more space appears, I need a different technology (e.g.
a php instead of ASP.NET) and once again like magic it appears.
I simply cannot understand what the difference between providing a server and database to someone for a fee, which has been going on for a long time now, and a cloud.
I look forward to finally learning what the hell a cloud is because I just don't seem to get it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574201</id>
	<title>Re:Do we really need a cloud?</title>
	<author>Suiggy</author>
	<datestamp>1246652220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think cloud computing will be forever stuck in the realm of casual consumers and enterprise. Someone who purchases a $100-$400 netbook and browses the web will probably be the primary demographic here. And for large businesses, they'll have their own enterprise-wide cloud computing solution. This is really just a web-savvy interface on top of the traditional mainframe infrastructure.

For those of us who have been computing for some time now, or require absolute control over our privacy and security, we'll stick to the traditional modus operandi of desktops and laptops.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think cloud computing will be forever stuck in the realm of casual consumers and enterprise .
Someone who purchases a $ 100- $ 400 netbook and browses the web will probably be the primary demographic here .
And for large businesses , they 'll have their own enterprise-wide cloud computing solution .
This is really just a web-savvy interface on top of the traditional mainframe infrastructure .
For those of us who have been computing for some time now , or require absolute control over our privacy and security , we 'll stick to the traditional modus operandi of desktops and laptops .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think cloud computing will be forever stuck in the realm of casual consumers and enterprise.
Someone who purchases a $100-$400 netbook and browses the web will probably be the primary demographic here.
And for large businesses, they'll have their own enterprise-wide cloud computing solution.
This is really just a web-savvy interface on top of the traditional mainframe infrastructure.
For those of us who have been computing for some time now, or require absolute control over our privacy and security, we'll stick to the traditional modus operandi of desktops and laptops.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575723</id>
	<title>Re:headline is backwards</title>
	<author>TheTurtlesMoves</author>
	<datestamp>1246620480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The forecast is "Clear sky's ahead". <br> <br>
Cloud computing is like the net pc. A big deal until everyone realizes is not.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The forecast is " Clear sky 's ahead " .
Cloud computing is like the net pc .
A big deal until everyone realizes is not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The forecast is "Clear sky's ahead".
Cloud computing is like the net pc.
A big deal until everyone realizes is not.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28577025</id>
	<title>Oh BS</title>
	<author>elkto</author>
	<datestamp>1246633980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Really....<br> <br>

Facebook....<br> <br>

Twitter....<br> <br>

Additionally, I thought Google relies on Linux quite a bit, could be wrong.<br> <br>

Looks relevant to me!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Really... . Facebook... . Twitter... . Additionally , I thought Google relies on Linux quite a bit , could be wrong .
Looks relevant to me !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Really.... 

Facebook.... 

Twitter.... 

Additionally, I thought Google relies on Linux quite a bit, could be wrong.
Looks relevant to me!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574445</id>
	<title>Re:Too many anaologies in the summary</title>
	<author>ocularDeathRay</author>
	<datestamp>1246654140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think that post was a real home run.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think that post was a real home run .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think that post was a real home run.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574067</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574603</id>
	<title>Re:Battle with what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246612020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>most of Google's and Amazon's could are run by Linux / BSD with costume modifications</p></div></blockquote><p>Making everything a dictionary word != spell correction. Turn it off, it's making things worse.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>most of Google 's and Amazon 's could are run by Linux / BSD with costume modificationsMaking everything a dictionary word ! = spell correction .
Turn it off , it 's making things worse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>most of Google's and Amazon's could are run by Linux / BSD with costume modificationsMaking everything a dictionary word != spell correction.
Turn it off, it's making things worse.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574167</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574387</id>
	<title>What a bunch of crap.</title>
	<author>otis wildflower</author>
	<datestamp>1246653600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Opensource \_enables\_ cloud computing!</p><p>Or are people really itching to spend money on Microsoft Cloud Server Enterprise Edition?</p><p>Can CIOs really be that stupid?</p><p>(that was a rhetorical question, you...)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Opensource \ _enables \ _ cloud computing ! Or are people really itching to spend money on Microsoft Cloud Server Enterprise Edition ? Can CIOs really be that stupid ?
( that was a rhetorical question , you... )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Opensource \_enables\_ cloud computing!Or are people really itching to spend money on Microsoft Cloud Server Enterprise Edition?Can CIOs really be that stupid?
(that was a rhetorical question, you...)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574757</id>
	<title>Is there evidence that Nick Carr knows anything?</title>
	<author>walterbyrd</author>
	<datestamp>1246613160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is Nick Carr just some academician who spins crazy theories just to get attention, and maybe make some money?</p><p>He seem almost like a professional troll, with sensationalist, often inflammatory, subject lines like "is google making us stupid."</p><p>Is there any reason to assume that Nick Carr knows any more about the future of IT than the average bum on the street? Okay, he's educated, since when have whack-job college educated predictors ever proven to be more accurate than flipping a coin?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is Nick Carr just some academician who spins crazy theories just to get attention , and maybe make some money ? He seem almost like a professional troll , with sensationalist , often inflammatory , subject lines like " is google making us stupid .
" Is there any reason to assume that Nick Carr knows any more about the future of IT than the average bum on the street ?
Okay , he 's educated , since when have whack-job college educated predictors ever proven to be more accurate than flipping a coin ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is Nick Carr just some academician who spins crazy theories just to get attention, and maybe make some money?He seem almost like a professional troll, with sensationalist, often inflammatory, subject lines like "is google making us stupid.
"Is there any reason to assume that Nick Carr knows any more about the future of IT than the average bum on the street?
Okay, he's educated, since when have whack-job college educated predictors ever proven to be more accurate than flipping a coin?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574539</id>
	<title>Re:Battle with what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246611660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The everyday business will not participate much."</p><p>Depends on what you mean.</p><p>If you mean Bob in Cubicle #33, well, his workstation isn't likely to be 'on teh cloud!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111'</p><p>If you mean businesses in general - uh, dude?  They're already here.</p><p>Cloud is going to bitchslap hosting and co-location in the same way that virtualization did.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The everyday business will not participate much .
" Depends on what you mean.If you mean Bob in Cubicle # 33 , well , his workstation is n't likely to be 'on teh cloud ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
! 111111111111'If you mean businesses in general - uh , dude ?
They 're already here.Cloud is going to bitchslap hosting and co-location in the same way that virtualization did .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The everyday business will not participate much.
"Depends on what you mean.If you mean Bob in Cubicle #33, well, his workstation isn't likely to be 'on teh cloud!!!!!!!!!!
!111111111111'If you mean businesses in general - uh, dude?
They're already here.Cloud is going to bitchslap hosting and co-location in the same way that virtualization did.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574167</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575097</id>
	<title>The everyday business will not participate much.</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1246615500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yet.</p><p>Once you get used to virtualization of your resources, clouds become 2nd nature and will open up to use by traditional businesses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yet.Once you get used to virtualization of your resources , clouds become 2nd nature and will open up to use by traditional businesses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yet.Once you get used to virtualization of your resources, clouds become 2nd nature and will open up to use by traditional businesses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574167</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575583</id>
	<title>Re:OSS also not a big player in cheeseburger marke</title>
	<author>jonbryce</author>
	<datestamp>1246619280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Google Mail or MS Office Live / Hotmail is a cloud computing solution.  Hosting your own exchange server isn't.  I suppose your ISP or hosting provider's POP3 server would come under the cloud computing category as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Google Mail or MS Office Live / Hotmail is a cloud computing solution .
Hosting your own exchange server is n't .
I suppose your ISP or hosting provider 's POP3 server would come under the cloud computing category as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Google Mail or MS Office Live / Hotmail is a cloud computing solution.
Hosting your own exchange server isn't.
I suppose your ISP or hosting provider's POP3 server would come under the cloud computing category as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574167</id>
	<title>Battle with what?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246651920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Come on people, most of Google's and Amazon's could are run by Linux / BSD with costume modifications to adapt to the task at hand.<br><br>If the article would state that these companies are not giving back much to the community in relation to what they take, then yes, that's probably true but they still rely heavily on OSS software.<br><br>For me the whole article completely misses the point, but maybe I'm missing something here.<br><br>Also: cloud computing is not going to take over everything. It is useful for certain situations like massive indexing, data backup storage and some forms of HPC (though the last group mostly build their own data centres or rely on distributed computing). The everyday business will not participate much.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Come on people , most of Google 's and Amazon 's could are run by Linux / BSD with costume modifications to adapt to the task at hand.If the article would state that these companies are not giving back much to the community in relation to what they take , then yes , that 's probably true but they still rely heavily on OSS software.For me the whole article completely misses the point , but maybe I 'm missing something here.Also : cloud computing is not going to take over everything .
It is useful for certain situations like massive indexing , data backup storage and some forms of HPC ( though the last group mostly build their own data centres or rely on distributed computing ) .
The everyday business will not participate much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come on people, most of Google's and Amazon's could are run by Linux / BSD with costume modifications to adapt to the task at hand.If the article would state that these companies are not giving back much to the community in relation to what they take, then yes, that's probably true but they still rely heavily on OSS software.For me the whole article completely misses the point, but maybe I'm missing something here.Also: cloud computing is not going to take over everything.
It is useful for certain situations like massive indexing, data backup storage and some forms of HPC (though the last group mostly build their own data centres or rely on distributed computing).
The everyday business will not participate much.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28578907</id>
	<title>Cloud != SAAS</title>
	<author>reashlin</author>
	<datestamp>1246704420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I thought the whole point of cloud computing was to NOT have a single point of faliure.
<br>
So a consortium of open source advocates would be much more cloud than the SAAS of Google Amazon et. al.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought the whole point of cloud computing was to NOT have a single point of faliure .
So a consortium of open source advocates would be much more cloud than the SAAS of Google Amazon et .
al .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought the whole point of cloud computing was to NOT have a single point of faliure.
So a consortium of open source advocates would be much more cloud than the SAAS of Google Amazon et.
al.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28593681</id>
	<title>Re:Battle with what?</title>
	<author>\_32nHz</author>
	<datestamp>1246890540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They DO run Linux/BSD with custom modifications. No way is either Google or Amazon reinventing the wheel and writing their entire stack from scratch, nor paying anyone a per-server license.</p><p>The problem is it still isn't Open Source. They are not redistributing the software so do not need to release the source. (And because no one else would have the hardware to run it in the way they do, they wouldn't get any benefit if they did)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They DO run Linux/BSD with custom modifications .
No way is either Google or Amazon reinventing the wheel and writing their entire stack from scratch , nor paying anyone a per-server license.The problem is it still is n't Open Source .
They are not redistributing the software so do not need to release the source .
( And because no one else would have the hardware to run it in the way they do , they would n't get any benefit if they did )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They DO run Linux/BSD with custom modifications.
No way is either Google or Amazon reinventing the wheel and writing their entire stack from scratch, nor paying anyone a per-server license.The problem is it still isn't Open Source.
They are not redistributing the software so do not need to release the source.
(And because no one else would have the hardware to run it in the way they do, they wouldn't get any benefit if they did)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574167</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574259</id>
	<title>Wrong way round</title>
	<author>Archtech</author>
	<datestamp>1246652580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>'In a world where horsepower matters more than the software feeding those "horses"...'</p><p>Wrong already! Software does the work - the "what" of solving problems. Hardware, while of course necessary too, is basically a fungible commodity - the "how". To use a counter-intuitive but revealing analogy, software is like the car while hardware plays the role of fuel.</p><p>Good software is still fairly rare, whereas state-of-the-market hardware can be cheaply and plentifully obtained from several alternative sources. So the article has it exactly the wrong way round: it's software that is important, and hardware that plays the supporting role.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>'In a world where horsepower matters more than the software feeding those " horses " ...'Wrong already !
Software does the work - the " what " of solving problems .
Hardware , while of course necessary too , is basically a fungible commodity - the " how " .
To use a counter-intuitive but revealing analogy , software is like the car while hardware plays the role of fuel.Good software is still fairly rare , whereas state-of-the-market hardware can be cheaply and plentifully obtained from several alternative sources .
So the article has it exactly the wrong way round : it 's software that is important , and hardware that plays the supporting role .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'In a world where horsepower matters more than the software feeding those "horses"...'Wrong already!
Software does the work - the "what" of solving problems.
Hardware, while of course necessary too, is basically a fungible commodity - the "how".
To use a counter-intuitive but revealing analogy, software is like the car while hardware plays the role of fuel.Good software is still fairly rare, whereas state-of-the-market hardware can be cheaply and plentifully obtained from several alternative sources.
So the article has it exactly the wrong way round: it's software that is important, and hardware that plays the supporting role.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574317</id>
	<title>I'm confused</title>
	<author>Hognoxious</author>
	<datestamp>1246652940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>OSS isn't releveant to something that's totally irrelevant.  So how releveant is OSS?</htmltext>
<tokenext>OSS is n't releveant to something that 's totally irrelevant .
So how releveant is OSS ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OSS isn't releveant to something that's totally irrelevant.
So how releveant is OSS?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574693</id>
	<title>Re:Too many anaologies in the summary</title>
	<author>MrPhilby</author>
	<datestamp>1246612680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly what I was.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly what I was .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly what I was.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574067</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28579075</id>
	<title>It's the new software deployment pattern!</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1246707960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's kind of hard to get a handle on "cloud computing" since it's such an amorphous buzzword.</p></div><p>Just like software <em>design</em> patterns, cloud computing is a set of software deployment anti-patterns<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's kind of hard to get a handle on " cloud computing " since it 's such an amorphous buzzword.Just like software design patterns , cloud computing is a set of software deployment anti-patterns ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's kind of hard to get a handle on "cloud computing" since it's such an amorphous buzzword.Just like software design patterns, cloud computing is a set of software deployment anti-patterns ;-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28583931</id>
	<title>Node administration is KEY!!!</title>
	<author>dooguls</author>
	<datestamp>1246720440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>At work, I just finished a 3 month project where we tried to apply cloud processing power (using hadoop, and internally developed version of bigTable) against a difficult problem set. We were starting to get the hang of things and producing results by the time the project period ended. But the Killer concept we learned after about a month was:<br> <br>

<b>Have good node-provisioning and management software.</b> <br> <br>

We wrote a few python scripts to move config files around and do auto-provisioning, but I think we should have spent more time on this. Given the amount of headache we all had to do to keep the cloud up and running. Stuff would break, and it took us often a long time to figure out the problem and then do something about it.<br> <br>

The office that took on the project after we left, was told to spend some time creating a better system admin, provisioning software suite or give up the project. Its not exactly sexy work to fix the behind the curtain problems, but they will bite you if you don't spend some time on it up-front.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At work , I just finished a 3 month project where we tried to apply cloud processing power ( using hadoop , and internally developed version of bigTable ) against a difficult problem set .
We were starting to get the hang of things and producing results by the time the project period ended .
But the Killer concept we learned after about a month was : Have good node-provisioning and management software .
We wrote a few python scripts to move config files around and do auto-provisioning , but I think we should have spent more time on this .
Given the amount of headache we all had to do to keep the cloud up and running .
Stuff would break , and it took us often a long time to figure out the problem and then do something about it .
The office that took on the project after we left , was told to spend some time creating a better system admin , provisioning software suite or give up the project .
Its not exactly sexy work to fix the behind the curtain problems , but they will bite you if you do n't spend some time on it up-front .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At work, I just finished a 3 month project where we tried to apply cloud processing power (using hadoop, and internally developed version of bigTable) against a difficult problem set.
We were starting to get the hang of things and producing results by the time the project period ended.
But the Killer concept we learned after about a month was: 

Have good node-provisioning and management software.
We wrote a few python scripts to move config files around and do auto-provisioning, but I think we should have spent more time on this.
Given the amount of headache we all had to do to keep the cloud up and running.
Stuff would break, and it took us often a long time to figure out the problem and then do something about it.
The office that took on the project after we left, was told to spend some time creating a better system admin, provisioning software suite or give up the project.
Its not exactly sexy work to fix the behind the curtain problems, but they will bite you if you don't spend some time on it up-front.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574479</id>
	<title>Re:Do we really need a cloud?</title>
	<author>Presto Vivace</author>
	<datestamp>1246654380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Cloud Computing is cheap, <a href="http://infoconcepts.com/videos/cloud/cloud.htm" title="infoconcepts.com">and there are ways of dealing with the security issues.</a> [infoconcepts.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cloud Computing is cheap , and there are ways of dealing with the security issues .
[ infoconcepts.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cloud Computing is cheap, and there are ways of dealing with the security issues.
[infoconcepts.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574197</id>
	<title>Article missed alot</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246652160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Red Hat's oVirt http://ovirt.org/</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Red Hat 's oVirt http : //ovirt.org/</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Red Hat's oVirt http://ovirt.org/</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575137</id>
	<title>Re:Too many anaologies in the summary</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246615740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For some reason my brain automatically did this:<br>&lt;Zap\_Branigan&gt;</p><p><div class="quote"><p>But if open-source can hit the bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.</p></div><p>&lt;/Zap\_Branigan&gt;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>For some reason my brain automatically did this : But if open-source can hit the bullseye , the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards .
Checkmate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For some reason my brain automatically did this:But if open-source can hit the bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards.
Checkmate.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574067</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28577171</id>
	<title>Re:Open source already absolutely relevant</title>
	<author>zerocool^</author>
	<datestamp>1246635840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yep; I'm a sysadmin at Rackspace, and interact regularly with our Cloud infrastructure.  Without going into detail, we're a Redhat shop.  The framework is all proprietary; and that's what the article is talking about - there's not a (good) open cloud framework.  But, it wouldn't be possible without open source at the foundation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep ; I 'm a sysadmin at Rackspace , and interact regularly with our Cloud infrastructure .
Without going into detail , we 're a Redhat shop .
The framework is all proprietary ; and that 's what the article is talking about - there 's not a ( good ) open cloud framework .
But , it would n't be possible without open source at the foundation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep; I'm a sysadmin at Rackspace, and interact regularly with our Cloud infrastructure.
Without going into detail, we're a Redhat shop.
The framework is all proprietary; and that's what the article is talking about - there's not a (good) open cloud framework.
But, it wouldn't be possible without open source at the foundation.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28577521</id>
	<title>cheap wow gold</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246639980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
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Others perhaps are more active by playing basketballï¼OEwimming ormmorpgvip [mmorpgvip.net] dancing.
Different people have different gamesavor [gamesavor.net] relaxations.I often spend weekends withoggsale [oggsale.net] my family or my friends.
Sometimes my parents take me on a visit to their old friends.
Sometimesgamersell [gamersell.net] I go to the library to study or borrow some books tommovirtex [mmovirtex.net] gain much knowledge.
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</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574173</id>
	<title>Actually, relevance is *higher* in cloud</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246651920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From a legal standpoint, it's often much easier for a corporation to use open-source software on its servers ("cloud," if you will) than to distribute it. I work at one of the Big Companies mentioned in the article, and have seen firsthand this fact affect technology choice. So moving to a cloud model will probably increase the usage of open source software.</p><p>If the article is trying to say that a cloud model may force us to depend on corporations to do computing, well, perhaps... but of course we're pretty much dependent on corporations for things like food, housing, etc. already, so it's hard to say that's a big new deal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From a legal standpoint , it 's often much easier for a corporation to use open-source software on its servers ( " cloud , " if you will ) than to distribute it .
I work at one of the Big Companies mentioned in the article , and have seen firsthand this fact affect technology choice .
So moving to a cloud model will probably increase the usage of open source software.If the article is trying to say that a cloud model may force us to depend on corporations to do computing , well , perhaps... but of course we 're pretty much dependent on corporations for things like food , housing , etc .
already , so it 's hard to say that 's a big new deal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From a legal standpoint, it's often much easier for a corporation to use open-source software on its servers ("cloud," if you will) than to distribute it.
I work at one of the Big Companies mentioned in the article, and have seen firsthand this fact affect technology choice.
So moving to a cloud model will probably increase the usage of open source software.If the article is trying to say that a cloud model may force us to depend on corporations to do computing, well, perhaps... but of course we're pretty much dependent on corporations for things like food, housing, etc.
already, so it's hard to say that's a big new deal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574287</id>
	<title>Closed platform?</title>
	<author>gmuslera</author>
	<datestamp>1246652760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Most of the key components of those "closed" platforms were made open by that companies, or being open and already being widely used. What makes them hard to compete with is more pure horsepower, and human factors than them using closed or open source.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Most of the key components of those " closed " platforms were made open by that companies , or being open and already being widely used .
What makes them hard to compete with is more pure horsepower , and human factors than them using closed or open source .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Most of the key components of those "closed" platforms were made open by that companies, or being open and already being widely used.
What makes them hard to compete with is more pure horsepower, and human factors than them using closed or open source.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28579079</id>
	<title>What's "costume modifications"?</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1246708020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>run by Linux / BSD with costume modifications</p></div><p>Skinnable kernels?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>run by Linux / BSD with costume modificationsSkinnable kernels ?
; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>run by Linux / BSD with costume modificationsSkinnable kernels?
;-)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574167</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28665905</id>
	<title>Emulab</title>
	<author>serodores</author>
	<datestamp>1247430660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>First, <a href="http://www.emulab.net/" title="emulab.net" rel="nofollow">Emulab</a> [emulab.net] has been around longer than Amazon's or Google's cloud.  It's a bit stricter than GPL, being AGPL, in which any users that contact the service have to be given sourc code (i.e., even the server), which makes it difficult to legally use by big businesses.

Second, Amazon at least is pretty likely to be running Xen and other GPL software under the covers.</htmltext>
<tokenext>First , Emulab [ emulab.net ] has been around longer than Amazon 's or Google 's cloud .
It 's a bit stricter than GPL , being AGPL , in which any users that contact the service have to be given sourc code ( i.e. , even the server ) , which makes it difficult to legally use by big businesses .
Second , Amazon at least is pretty likely to be running Xen and other GPL software under the covers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First, Emulab [emulab.net] has been around longer than Amazon's or Google's cloud.
It's a bit stricter than GPL, being AGPL, in which any users that contact the service have to be given sourc code (i.e., even the server), which makes it difficult to legally use by big businesses.
Second, Amazon at least is pretty likely to be running Xen and other GPL software under the covers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574171</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574745</id>
	<title>Re:Once more with feeling</title>
	<author>jo42</author>
	<datestamp>1246613160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Cloud computing technologies are NOT about (or only about) big box companies hosting your applications. They are about the ability to host them where ever you want when you want, from big companies to local server farms to *gasp* the user's desktops. The next generation of application after cloud computing will have to do with being able to leverage computing resources anywhere and anytime with automated failover and resource sharing.</p></div><p>You mean like today's bots running on Windows-based botnets?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Cloud computing technologies are NOT about ( or only about ) big box companies hosting your applications .
They are about the ability to host them where ever you want when you want , from big companies to local server farms to * gasp * the user 's desktops .
The next generation of application after cloud computing will have to do with being able to leverage computing resources anywhere and anytime with automated failover and resource sharing.You mean like today 's bots running on Windows-based botnets ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cloud computing technologies are NOT about (or only about) big box companies hosting your applications.
They are about the ability to host them where ever you want when you want, from big companies to local server farms to *gasp* the user's desktops.
The next generation of application after cloud computing will have to do with being able to leverage computing resources anywhere and anytime with automated failover and resource sharing.You mean like today's bots running on Windows-based botnets?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574207</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574277</id>
	<title>Software as a service, how is this not expected?</title>
	<author>Rog7</author>
	<datestamp>1246652700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The higher costs of service versus localized computing has been a known drawback since the beginning. It's part of the drive too, in the expectations of huge profits and / or market-share.</p><p>That doesn't mean that open source can't participate, it just means that the big players are the big players. It's not that much of a switch really, money drives a lot of things and "free" does too. I imagine in the drive for domination of the market, the big boys will be clamoring to have other software hook into their cloud resources. Certainly I imagine that will be a part of Google's strategy, leveraging their bandwidth and server farms to become infrastructure for others.</p><p>In the end, how is this so different from how the Internet has been so far? I don't mean technically or end-user experience, I mean in the nature of open source competing with closed. It's definitely a switch from desktop computing, but online services are already available in both "free" and various pay models.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The higher costs of service versus localized computing has been a known drawback since the beginning .
It 's part of the drive too , in the expectations of huge profits and / or market-share.That does n't mean that open source ca n't participate , it just means that the big players are the big players .
It 's not that much of a switch really , money drives a lot of things and " free " does too .
I imagine in the drive for domination of the market , the big boys will be clamoring to have other software hook into their cloud resources .
Certainly I imagine that will be a part of Google 's strategy , leveraging their bandwidth and server farms to become infrastructure for others.In the end , how is this so different from how the Internet has been so far ?
I do n't mean technically or end-user experience , I mean in the nature of open source competing with closed .
It 's definitely a switch from desktop computing , but online services are already available in both " free " and various pay models .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The higher costs of service versus localized computing has been a known drawback since the beginning.
It's part of the drive too, in the expectations of huge profits and / or market-share.That doesn't mean that open source can't participate, it just means that the big players are the big players.
It's not that much of a switch really, money drives a lot of things and "free" does too.
I imagine in the drive for domination of the market, the big boys will be clamoring to have other software hook into their cloud resources.
Certainly I imagine that will be a part of Google's strategy, leveraging their bandwidth and server farms to become infrastructure for others.In the end, how is this so different from how the Internet has been so far?
I don't mean technically or end-user experience, I mean in the nature of open source competing with closed.
It's definitely a switch from desktop computing, but online services are already available in both "free" and various pay models.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28580319</id>
	<title>Re:Open source already absolutely relevant</title>
	<author>dirvine</author>
	<datestamp>1246724220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>True cloud computing surely has to be true peer to peer, no DNS, no web, simply the Internet and p2p software. There are loads of examples of open sourced p2p applications (torrent clients) and some even with DHT's. <p>
This in my mind is true cloud computing and not going back to central servers or even DNS which itself is reliant on centralisations and human authoritative controls. True cloud and true p2p must be brought together. We have released a library which allows for a NAT traversing (UDP hole punching) and extensible kademlia networking (DHT). This was due to the fact that although many libraries state they can achieve this in c, c++, java or python etc. we have never actually found a good base to create our main application from. </p><p>
So it seems that open source has been a little slow in providing solid networking libraries to allow open source cloud computing which can easily challenge the giants head on and they should. Our library is at <a href="http://code.google.com/p/maidsafe-dht/" title="google.com" rel="nofollow"> google code</a> [google.com] for anyone who is interested (BSD license). </p><p>
I think that with a solid base then single developers, small groups a well as any other type of innovators can easily create an application to make proper use of p2p and therefor cloud computing, because simply using the Internet as a big cable to some servers which may or may not be centralised is not cloud computing, that to me is merely borrowing somebody else's computer when required and paying them for it. If it were a true cloud then this would all be happening in real time and not known to the users of the system. In my opinion real cloud computing is a mindshift along with a shift in how computers are used at a more fundemental level than connected VM's over long pieces fo virtual cable.</p><p> I am sure there will be differing opinions though<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>True cloud computing surely has to be true peer to peer , no DNS , no web , simply the Internet and p2p software .
There are loads of examples of open sourced p2p applications ( torrent clients ) and some even with DHT 's .
This in my mind is true cloud computing and not going back to central servers or even DNS which itself is reliant on centralisations and human authoritative controls .
True cloud and true p2p must be brought together .
We have released a library which allows for a NAT traversing ( UDP hole punching ) and extensible kademlia networking ( DHT ) .
This was due to the fact that although many libraries state they can achieve this in c , c + + , java or python etc .
we have never actually found a good base to create our main application from .
So it seems that open source has been a little slow in providing solid networking libraries to allow open source cloud computing which can easily challenge the giants head on and they should .
Our library is at google code [ google.com ] for anyone who is interested ( BSD license ) .
I think that with a solid base then single developers , small groups a well as any other type of innovators can easily create an application to make proper use of p2p and therefor cloud computing , because simply using the Internet as a big cable to some servers which may or may not be centralised is not cloud computing , that to me is merely borrowing somebody else 's computer when required and paying them for it .
If it were a true cloud then this would all be happening in real time and not known to the users of the system .
In my opinion real cloud computing is a mindshift along with a shift in how computers are used at a more fundemental level than connected VM 's over long pieces fo virtual cable .
I am sure there will be differing opinions though : - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>True cloud computing surely has to be true peer to peer, no DNS, no web, simply the Internet and p2p software.
There are loads of examples of open sourced p2p applications (torrent clients) and some even with DHT's.
This in my mind is true cloud computing and not going back to central servers or even DNS which itself is reliant on centralisations and human authoritative controls.
True cloud and true p2p must be brought together.
We have released a library which allows for a NAT traversing (UDP hole punching) and extensible kademlia networking (DHT).
This was due to the fact that although many libraries state they can achieve this in c, c++, java or python etc.
we have never actually found a good base to create our main application from.
So it seems that open source has been a little slow in providing solid networking libraries to allow open source cloud computing which can easily challenge the giants head on and they should.
Our library is at  google code [google.com] for anyone who is interested (BSD license).
I think that with a solid base then single developers, small groups a well as any other type of innovators can easily create an application to make proper use of p2p and therefor cloud computing, because simply using the Internet as a big cable to some servers which may or may not be centralised is not cloud computing, that to me is merely borrowing somebody else's computer when required and paying them for it.
If it were a true cloud then this would all be happening in real time and not known to the users of the system.
In my opinion real cloud computing is a mindshift along with a shift in how computers are used at a more fundemental level than connected VM's over long pieces fo virtual cable.
I am sure there will be differing opinions though :-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574721</id>
	<title>Re:Do we really need a cloud?</title>
	<author>Ant P.</author>
	<datestamp>1246612860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Why do we need this again?</p></div><p>For all the badly written commercial software that's too slow to run on one machine yet too expensive to leave enough budget for a real cluster.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why do we need this again ? For all the badly written commercial software that 's too slow to run on one machine yet too expensive to leave enough budget for a real cluster .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why do we need this again?For all the badly written commercial software that's too slow to run on one machine yet too expensive to leave enough budget for a real cluster.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574939</id>
	<title>Costume modifications?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246614240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Costume modifications?... shouldn't it be clown computing or something?!?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Costume modifications ? .. .
should n't it be clown computing or something ? !
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Costume modifications?...
shouldn't it be clown computing or something?!
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574167</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574419</id>
	<title>We are the Borg</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246653780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If water droplets were to self-aggregate, you get a cloud.  In other words, individuals have more storage and computing power spread collectively amongst themselves than any concentrated central source.  If you can tap into that collective resource (see bittorrent, folding@home, SETI, etc.), then OSS has no barrier to entry.  I like some of the cloud services, but for certain uses I would rather use my personal resources than trust another party.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If water droplets were to self-aggregate , you get a cloud .
In other words , individuals have more storage and computing power spread collectively amongst themselves than any concentrated central source .
If you can tap into that collective resource ( see bittorrent , folding @ home , SETI , etc .
) , then OSS has no barrier to entry .
I like some of the cloud services , but for certain uses I would rather use my personal resources than trust another party .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If water droplets were to self-aggregate, you get a cloud.
In other words, individuals have more storage and computing power spread collectively amongst themselves than any concentrated central source.
If you can tap into that collective resource (see bittorrent, folding@home, SETI, etc.
), then OSS has no barrier to entry.
I like some of the cloud services, but for certain uses I would rather use my personal resources than trust another party.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575009</id>
	<title>P2P Cloud Computing with Open Source</title>
	<author>192939495969798999</author>
	<datestamp>1246614840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't a p2p cloud via the Internet the obvious solution to open-source's ability to compete with a proprietary cloud in some million square foot warehouse? After all, that warehouse is big and impressive, but the Internet is MUCH bigger and has all sorts of redundancies and local hubs, providing a local granularity to the p2p cloud that a few large warehouses can never match.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't a p2p cloud via the Internet the obvious solution to open-source 's ability to compete with a proprietary cloud in some million square foot warehouse ?
After all , that warehouse is big and impressive , but the Internet is MUCH bigger and has all sorts of redundancies and local hubs , providing a local granularity to the p2p cloud that a few large warehouses can never match .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't a p2p cloud via the Internet the obvious solution to open-source's ability to compete with a proprietary cloud in some million square foot warehouse?
After all, that warehouse is big and impressive, but the Internet is MUCH bigger and has all sorts of redundancies and local hubs, providing a local granularity to the p2p cloud that a few large warehouses can never match.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575491</id>
	<title>Re:OSS also not a big player in cheeseburger marke</title>
	<author>john\_is\_war</author>
	<datestamp>1246618560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cloud as a service (give it data and a process and you get results) is one definition of cloud computing.  The other is the architecture itself (large scale data management).  In order to have cloud as a service, you need the architecture.  And that's the biggest problem we have today.  Designing a highly scalable architecture is not easy.  And without this architecture (which is software based), some other company cannot just create their own cloud (which beats the security issues with cloud as a service).  So once a good distributed software system (hadoop, open neptune, etc.) is 'perfected', this will be more possible.</p><p>And that should answer your question - the actual architecture itself for cloud computing, is the software which every machine in the cloud runs.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cloud as a service ( give it data and a process and you get results ) is one definition of cloud computing .
The other is the architecture itself ( large scale data management ) .
In order to have cloud as a service , you need the architecture .
And that 's the biggest problem we have today .
Designing a highly scalable architecture is not easy .
And without this architecture ( which is software based ) , some other company can not just create their own cloud ( which beats the security issues with cloud as a service ) .
So once a good distributed software system ( hadoop , open neptune , etc .
) is 'perfected ' , this will be more possible.And that should answer your question - the actual architecture itself for cloud computing , is the software which every machine in the cloud runs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cloud as a service (give it data and a process and you get results) is one definition of cloud computing.
The other is the architecture itself (large scale data management).
In order to have cloud as a service, you need the architecture.
And that's the biggest problem we have today.
Designing a highly scalable architecture is not easy.
And without this architecture (which is software based), some other company cannot just create their own cloud (which beats the security issues with cloud as a service).
So once a good distributed software system (hadoop, open neptune, etc.
) is 'perfected', this will be more possible.And that should answer your question - the actual architecture itself for cloud computing, is the software which every machine in the cloud runs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574691</id>
	<title>You fail 1t</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246612680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>you have a play m\_istake of electing we all know, on slashdot.org as fittingly locating #GNAA, progress. Any Juliet Are together as those non gay, if you move a table Fortunately, Linux Are a few ggod [mit.edu] found for successful To this. For The future holds practical purposes EFNet, and apply dabblers. In truth, It a break, if errors.  Future I recent article put the political mess look at your soft, to the crowd in Talk to one of the Your own towel in GNAA and support</htmltext>
<tokenext>you have a play m \ _istake of electing we all know , on slashdot.org as fittingly locating # GNAA , progress .
Any Juliet Are together as those non gay , if you move a table Fortunately , Linux Are a few ggod [ mit.edu ] found for successful To this .
For The future holds practical purposes EFNet , and apply dabblers .
In truth , It a break , if errors .
Future I recent article put the political mess look at your soft , to the crowd in Talk to one of the Your own towel in GNAA and support</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you have a play m\_istake of electing we all know, on slashdot.org as fittingly locating #GNAA, progress.
Any Juliet Are together as those non gay, if you move a table Fortunately, Linux Are a few ggod [mit.edu] found for successful To this.
For The future holds practical purposes EFNet, and apply dabblers.
In truth, It a break, if errors.
Future I recent article put the political mess look at your soft, to the crowd in Talk to one of the Your own towel in GNAA and support</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574613</id>
	<title>OSS is Dead?</title>
	<author>qazwart</author>
	<datestamp>1246612080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wait a second...</p><p>Aren't both Amazon and Google both based upon open source platforms? Not to mention Yahoo, 37Signals, and a whole bunch of other "cloud computing" services.</p><p>Looks like OSS is doing pretty well in the cloud computing arena. What was he expecting? Someone writing an app that uses the processing power of third party Linux based systems to run a cloud like service while these PCs run their screen saver?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait a second...Are n't both Amazon and Google both based upon open source platforms ?
Not to mention Yahoo , 37Signals , and a whole bunch of other " cloud computing " services.Looks like OSS is doing pretty well in the cloud computing arena .
What was he expecting ?
Someone writing an app that uses the processing power of third party Linux based systems to run a cloud like service while these PCs run their screen saver ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait a second...Aren't both Amazon and Google both based upon open source platforms?
Not to mention Yahoo, 37Signals, and a whole bunch of other "cloud computing" services.Looks like OSS is doing pretty well in the cloud computing arena.
What was he expecting?
Someone writing an app that uses the processing power of third party Linux based systems to run a cloud like service while these PCs run their screen saver?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574305</id>
	<title>Re:OSS also not a big player in cheeseburger marke</title>
	<author>chdig</author>
	<datestamp>1246652880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'm equally confused, and am wondering whether the author meant to say "open standards" instead of "open source".  Whether open standards could dominate the cloud seems like a much more sensible discussion to have.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm equally confused , and am wondering whether the author meant to say " open standards " instead of " open source " .
Whether open standards could dominate the cloud seems like a much more sensible discussion to have .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm equally confused, and am wondering whether the author meant to say "open standards" instead of "open source".
Whether open standards could dominate the cloud seems like a much more sensible discussion to have.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574171</id>
	<title>Free software not relevant?</title>
	<author>Statecraftsman</author>
	<datestamp>1246651920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's really hard to see how free software isn't relevant to "cloud computing" services when you can basically build your own using them. Apache/MySQL/Php can let you build quite a bit...maybe that's not enough to be cloud certifiable er...certified but it works for me.<br> <br>
The other issue here is market leadership and time-to-market. Admittedly this speed is somewhat lacking the free software world because the motivations are different but in the long run, free software will win out as it allows more of the best minds to collaborate to build better systems. I'm looking forward to a user/customer owned coop cloud solution and perhaps another one that consists of ready-to-download virtual machines that I can run on my own hardware wherever it may be. A project called Eucalyptus is a step in the right direction in this space.<br> <br>Some of these network services are starting with the right ethics in mind and it's those we should be talking up. With identi.ca, libre.fm, Eucalyptus and other projects making progress each day, free software(not open source) is anything but dead.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's really hard to see how free software is n't relevant to " cloud computing " services when you can basically build your own using them .
Apache/MySQL/Php can let you build quite a bit...maybe that 's not enough to be cloud certifiable er...certified but it works for me .
The other issue here is market leadership and time-to-market .
Admittedly this speed is somewhat lacking the free software world because the motivations are different but in the long run , free software will win out as it allows more of the best minds to collaborate to build better systems .
I 'm looking forward to a user/customer owned coop cloud solution and perhaps another one that consists of ready-to-download virtual machines that I can run on my own hardware wherever it may be .
A project called Eucalyptus is a step in the right direction in this space .
Some of these network services are starting with the right ethics in mind and it 's those we should be talking up .
With identi.ca , libre.fm , Eucalyptus and other projects making progress each day , free software ( not open source ) is anything but dead .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's really hard to see how free software isn't relevant to "cloud computing" services when you can basically build your own using them.
Apache/MySQL/Php can let you build quite a bit...maybe that's not enough to be cloud certifiable er...certified but it works for me.
The other issue here is market leadership and time-to-market.
Admittedly this speed is somewhat lacking the free software world because the motivations are different but in the long run, free software will win out as it allows more of the best minds to collaborate to build better systems.
I'm looking forward to a user/customer owned coop cloud solution and perhaps another one that consists of ready-to-download virtual machines that I can run on my own hardware wherever it may be.
A project called Eucalyptus is a step in the right direction in this space.
Some of these network services are starting with the right ethics in mind and it's those we should be talking up.
With identi.ca, libre.fm, Eucalyptus and other projects making progress each day, free software(not open source) is anything but dead.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574185</id>
	<title>Same old Same old</title>
	<author>Attila Dimedici</author>
	<datestamp>1246652100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The article says, "Look around. The big vendors controlling IT and the Web are...the same vendors that controlled it yesterday, and are likely the same vendors that will control it 10 years from now." Yeah, look around, who were the major players in IT in the 70's? How many of them are still around? Of those, how many are major players today? IBM, HP, that's all I can think of. Microsoft wasn't a major player, neither was Apple.<br>
Take a look around, how many companies from the Dow Jones Industrial Average were around 100 years ago? Of those were any of them bug names at the time? Heck, IBM didn't make it onto the DJI until 1979. The AT&amp;T that is on the DJI now didn't get on the list until 1999 (the old AT&amp;T was on the DJI back in the day, but that was a different company).</htmltext>
<tokenext>The article says , " Look around .
The big vendors controlling IT and the Web are...the same vendors that controlled it yesterday , and are likely the same vendors that will control it 10 years from now .
" Yeah , look around , who were the major players in IT in the 70 's ?
How many of them are still around ?
Of those , how many are major players today ?
IBM , HP , that 's all I can think of .
Microsoft was n't a major player , neither was Apple .
Take a look around , how many companies from the Dow Jones Industrial Average were around 100 years ago ?
Of those were any of them bug names at the time ?
Heck , IBM did n't make it onto the DJI until 1979 .
The AT&amp;T that is on the DJI now did n't get on the list until 1999 ( the old AT&amp;T was on the DJI back in the day , but that was a different company ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article says, "Look around.
The big vendors controlling IT and the Web are...the same vendors that controlled it yesterday, and are likely the same vendors that will control it 10 years from now.
" Yeah, look around, who were the major players in IT in the 70's?
How many of them are still around?
Of those, how many are major players today?
IBM, HP, that's all I can think of.
Microsoft wasn't a major player, neither was Apple.
Take a look around, how many companies from the Dow Jones Industrial Average were around 100 years ago?
Of those were any of them bug names at the time?
Heck, IBM didn't make it onto the DJI until 1979.
The AT&amp;T that is on the DJI now didn't get on the list until 1999 (the old AT&amp;T was on the DJI back in the day, but that was a different company).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574207</id>
	<title>Once more with feeling</title>
	<author>jd.schmidt</author>
	<datestamp>1246652220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cloud computing technologies are NOT about (or only about) big box companies hosting your applications.  They are about the ability to host them where ever you want when you want, from big companies to local server farms to *gasp* the user's desktops.  The next generation of application after cloud computing will have to do with being able to leverage computing resources anywhere and anytime with automated failover and resource sharing.</p><p>Further, economy of scale only goes so far, that is why every company in NOT a giant corporation.  At a certain size you don't get additional benefits from specialization and the additional size just adds overhead.  If you hiring a plumber, maybe you just need 1 guy who knows what he or she is doing, not a corporation behind him.  Once you have a handful of staff members monitoring your servers and nothing else you have gotten all the benefit from specialization (economy of scale) and now you may just be adding needless overhead as you get larger.  Large companies can negotiate additional discounts sometimes, but as margins on hardware or whatever become thinner, the discounts become less and less.</p><p>The point here is not that no applications should be hosted by large outside vendors but rather that different solutions are now available to all datacenters depending on their size and need.  Don't fear cloud computing, but don't believe industry hype.  It is just a technology that allows you to more efficiently use resources on an as needed basis.</p><p>Last thing to remember, a monitor and keyboard with a "run of the mill" processor is only a little more expensive than on with a "can only run virtual apps" processor, and you still might need that same processor on the back end anyway and that network isn't free either.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cloud computing technologies are NOT about ( or only about ) big box companies hosting your applications .
They are about the ability to host them where ever you want when you want , from big companies to local server farms to * gasp * the user 's desktops .
The next generation of application after cloud computing will have to do with being able to leverage computing resources anywhere and anytime with automated failover and resource sharing.Further , economy of scale only goes so far , that is why every company in NOT a giant corporation .
At a certain size you do n't get additional benefits from specialization and the additional size just adds overhead .
If you hiring a plumber , maybe you just need 1 guy who knows what he or she is doing , not a corporation behind him .
Once you have a handful of staff members monitoring your servers and nothing else you have gotten all the benefit from specialization ( economy of scale ) and now you may just be adding needless overhead as you get larger .
Large companies can negotiate additional discounts sometimes , but as margins on hardware or whatever become thinner , the discounts become less and less.The point here is not that no applications should be hosted by large outside vendors but rather that different solutions are now available to all datacenters depending on their size and need .
Do n't fear cloud computing , but do n't believe industry hype .
It is just a technology that allows you to more efficiently use resources on an as needed basis.Last thing to remember , a monitor and keyboard with a " run of the mill " processor is only a little more expensive than on with a " can only run virtual apps " processor , and you still might need that same processor on the back end anyway and that network is n't free either .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cloud computing technologies are NOT about (or only about) big box companies hosting your applications.
They are about the ability to host them where ever you want when you want, from big companies to local server farms to *gasp* the user's desktops.
The next generation of application after cloud computing will have to do with being able to leverage computing resources anywhere and anytime with automated failover and resource sharing.Further, economy of scale only goes so far, that is why every company in NOT a giant corporation.
At a certain size you don't get additional benefits from specialization and the additional size just adds overhead.
If you hiring a plumber, maybe you just need 1 guy who knows what he or she is doing, not a corporation behind him.
Once you have a handful of staff members monitoring your servers and nothing else you have gotten all the benefit from specialization (economy of scale) and now you may just be adding needless overhead as you get larger.
Large companies can negotiate additional discounts sometimes, but as margins on hardware or whatever become thinner, the discounts become less and less.The point here is not that no applications should be hosted by large outside vendors but rather that different solutions are now available to all datacenters depending on their size and need.
Don't fear cloud computing, but don't believe industry hype.
It is just a technology that allows you to more efficiently use resources on an as needed basis.Last thing to remember, a monitor and keyboard with a "run of the mill" processor is only a little more expensive than on with a "can only run virtual apps" processor, and you still might need that same processor on the back end anyway and that network isn't free either.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28578695</id>
	<title>Afero GPL v3</title>
	<author>12357bd</author>
	<datestamp>1246700100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We need to start using the <a href="http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/agpl-3.0.html" title="fsf.org">Afero Gpl v3 license</a> [fsf.org], in every pice of software that could be used in the internet. Starting by the Linux kernel ASAP.</p><p>It's the only way to stop being used by big companies (they call-it 'cloud computing', what a joke!)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We need to start using the Afero Gpl v3 license [ fsf.org ] , in every pice of software that could be used in the internet .
Starting by the Linux kernel ASAP.It 's the only way to stop being used by big companies ( they call-it 'cloud computing ' , what a joke !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We need to start using the Afero Gpl v3 license [fsf.org], in every pice of software that could be used in the internet.
Starting by the Linux kernel ASAP.It's the only way to stop being used by big companies (they call-it 'cloud computing', what a joke!
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28590055</id>
	<title>cheap wow gold</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246804620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
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</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574229</id>
	<title>Re:Do we really need a cloud?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246652340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I really don't understand the long-term value proposition of running your stuff on a public cloud.  I can, however, see the IT cost advantages of a properly automated internally managed cloud for internal IT needs.  You can get more efficient utilization of hardware and easier administration using virtual servers in a cloud configuration.  Of course, there are open source solutions for that, so I'm not sure where the notion that open source can't compete in this area is coming from.  Hell, many of the software solutions for this sort of thing are based on the open source Xen these days.
<br> <br>
"Cloud" has been, in many venues, too narrowly defined as being "outsourcing to someone else's cloud", when in fact if you already have an IT department that already manages your servers in house, you can probably get more bang for your buck building your own cloud and converting your existing servers to virtual machines running on it.
<br> <br>

It's also incredibly dangerous to say the amount of horsepower you have is the most important thing for cloud computing.  The most important part of the cloud is the automation and management software.  If either of those two things are inadequate, the cloud will be inadequate and very expensive to maintain.  The software is the key to a successful cloud implementation.  The end result of a successful cloud implementation should be more efficient use of hardware and more efficient and easier administration, resulting in an overall reduction in cost.  If the software pieces aren't in place, you won't reach those goals.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I really do n't understand the long-term value proposition of running your stuff on a public cloud .
I can , however , see the IT cost advantages of a properly automated internally managed cloud for internal IT needs .
You can get more efficient utilization of hardware and easier administration using virtual servers in a cloud configuration .
Of course , there are open source solutions for that , so I 'm not sure where the notion that open source ca n't compete in this area is coming from .
Hell , many of the software solutions for this sort of thing are based on the open source Xen these days .
" Cloud " has been , in many venues , too narrowly defined as being " outsourcing to someone else 's cloud " , when in fact if you already have an IT department that already manages your servers in house , you can probably get more bang for your buck building your own cloud and converting your existing servers to virtual machines running on it .
It 's also incredibly dangerous to say the amount of horsepower you have is the most important thing for cloud computing .
The most important part of the cloud is the automation and management software .
If either of those two things are inadequate , the cloud will be inadequate and very expensive to maintain .
The software is the key to a successful cloud implementation .
The end result of a successful cloud implementation should be more efficient use of hardware and more efficient and easier administration , resulting in an overall reduction in cost .
If the software pieces are n't in place , you wo n't reach those goals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really don't understand the long-term value proposition of running your stuff on a public cloud.
I can, however, see the IT cost advantages of a properly automated internally managed cloud for internal IT needs.
You can get more efficient utilization of hardware and easier administration using virtual servers in a cloud configuration.
Of course, there are open source solutions for that, so I'm not sure where the notion that open source can't compete in this area is coming from.
Hell, many of the software solutions for this sort of thing are based on the open source Xen these days.
"Cloud" has been, in many venues, too narrowly defined as being "outsourcing to someone else's cloud", when in fact if you already have an IT department that already manages your servers in house, you can probably get more bang for your buck building your own cloud and converting your existing servers to virtual machines running on it.
It's also incredibly dangerous to say the amount of horsepower you have is the most important thing for cloud computing.
The most important part of the cloud is the automation and management software.
If either of those two things are inadequate, the cloud will be inadequate and very expensive to maintain.
The software is the key to a successful cloud implementation.
The end result of a successful cloud implementation should be more efficient use of hardware and more efficient and easier administration, resulting in an overall reduction in cost.
If the software pieces aren't in place, you won't reach those goals.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574129</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28580971</id>
	<title>Re:Do we really need a cloud?</title>
	<author>adelporto</author>
	<datestamp>1246729920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From a management perspective, that IT department is what the magic cloud will substantially replace. Software as Service means no expensive hardware to own and no expensive IT staff. Well, a reduction in SysAdmins anyway. Spending money on core-competencies blah blah blah. There's work being done to make cloud hosted data secure - see</p><p>  <a href="http://www.usenix.org/events/hotcloud09/tech/" title="usenix.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.usenix.org/events/hotcloud09/tech/</a> [usenix.org] </p><p>Yes, I work for USENIX.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From a management perspective , that IT department is what the magic cloud will substantially replace .
Software as Service means no expensive hardware to own and no expensive IT staff .
Well , a reduction in SysAdmins anyway .
Spending money on core-competencies blah blah blah .
There 's work being done to make cloud hosted data secure - see http : //www.usenix.org/events/hotcloud09/tech/ [ usenix.org ] Yes , I work for USENIX .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From a management perspective, that IT department is what the magic cloud will substantially replace.
Software as Service means no expensive hardware to own and no expensive IT staff.
Well, a reduction in SysAdmins anyway.
Spending money on core-competencies blah blah blah.
There's work being done to make cloud hosted data secure - see  http://www.usenix.org/events/hotcloud09/tech/ [usenix.org] Yes, I work for USENIX.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574337</id>
	<title>More distribution is needed.</title>
	<author>danking</author>
	<datestamp>1246653120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Personally I see could computing as a form of distributed computing. The current infrastructure given by Google, Amazon, etc. I do not see as very distributed since they run a few huge data centers. If they are taken offline then that is a major hit to the overall infrastructure.

What I envision as cloud computing is that everyones computer using the cloud acts as a node in the whole infrastructure. Serving pieces of applications and data that reside on the cloud.

I have mentioned this idea before and someone made similarities to a giant botnet or I see it as similar to a torrent network.

Anyways the current infrasturture given above is not what I envision as cloud computing infrastructure, more of a giant hosting infrastructure.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally I see could computing as a form of distributed computing .
The current infrastructure given by Google , Amazon , etc .
I do not see as very distributed since they run a few huge data centers .
If they are taken offline then that is a major hit to the overall infrastructure .
What I envision as cloud computing is that everyones computer using the cloud acts as a node in the whole infrastructure .
Serving pieces of applications and data that reside on the cloud .
I have mentioned this idea before and someone made similarities to a giant botnet or I see it as similar to a torrent network .
Anyways the current infrasturture given above is not what I envision as cloud computing infrastructure , more of a giant hosting infrastructure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally I see could computing as a form of distributed computing.
The current infrastructure given by Google, Amazon, etc.
I do not see as very distributed since they run a few huge data centers.
If they are taken offline then that is a major hit to the overall infrastructure.
What I envision as cloud computing is that everyones computer using the cloud acts as a node in the whole infrastructure.
Serving pieces of applications and data that reside on the cloud.
I have mentioned this idea before and someone made similarities to a giant botnet or I see it as similar to a torrent network.
Anyways the current infrasturture given above is not what I envision as cloud computing infrastructure, more of a giant hosting infrastructure.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574219</id>
	<title>In other news...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246652280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And in other, related news, Cloud Computing itself is facing a difficult battle for relevance in the first place...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And in other , related news , Cloud Computing itself is facing a difficult battle for relevance in the first place.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And in other, related news, Cloud Computing itself is facing a difficult battle for relevance in the first place...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574159</id>
	<title>Physical hardware is needed here</title>
	<author>mlts</author>
	<datestamp>1246651860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unfortunately, this is where OSS is weak.  The larger companies (Google, Amazon) can afford the large iron and backend storage stacks [1].  For the uptimes that modern cloud storage has, the equipment costs are tremendous, because the machines that are able to do the large volume I/O over the net not just have to have performance, but be engineered around reliability, and that means large clusters distributed over geographically different regions storing identical data.</p><p>I don't really see how an open source solution can compete here, unless it received funding from governments or research institutions.  Reliable cloud storage is all about physical hardware.</p><p>The only way I can see an OSS cloud appearing is if someone makes a program that would get clients to set aside part of a hard disk.  Then, when someone writes to the cloud, the central server encrypts the data, then splits the data among clients assuming that relatively few will be up, and able to be connected to via an application.  Ages ago, there was a LAN level utility for the Mac (worked on System 6 and 7) which created a virtual Appleshare drive by using a chunk of hard disk space from all the linked up machines, and using encryption (or obfuscation) to ensure that only the administrator had full access to the share.</p><p>Scaling a utility that keeps track of every write, how many splits (including redundant ones) and where would be extremely daunting.  It may be doable, but it would not even come close to the performance of a commercial cloud.  Reliability is iffish, especially after a long time as participating machines get reinstalled over time, so the central storing program would have to keep shuffling data around.  Of course, unless architected right, there is a central point of failure with the machines that assign the bits to the client machines.</p><p>Legal issues also apply.  A cloud that is completely open will eventually be used for storing information that is highly illegal in some countries.  Would someone participating by offering some HDD space be able to be charged with possession, even though they had an encrypted chunk inaccessible to them?  This is very hazy legal territory.  Some areas of the world could say its like storing a friend's safe full of doobies; its not accessible, but can still be considered possession.</p><p>[1]:  I'm calling it a stack because there are a number of layers before bits flung into the cloud hit a physical platter, from distribution among sites, to optional encryption, to an accounting system to not just know how much is stored, but how much for how long, then finally passing the objects to a backend database.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfortunately , this is where OSS is weak .
The larger companies ( Google , Amazon ) can afford the large iron and backend storage stacks [ 1 ] .
For the uptimes that modern cloud storage has , the equipment costs are tremendous , because the machines that are able to do the large volume I/O over the net not just have to have performance , but be engineered around reliability , and that means large clusters distributed over geographically different regions storing identical data.I do n't really see how an open source solution can compete here , unless it received funding from governments or research institutions .
Reliable cloud storage is all about physical hardware.The only way I can see an OSS cloud appearing is if someone makes a program that would get clients to set aside part of a hard disk .
Then , when someone writes to the cloud , the central server encrypts the data , then splits the data among clients assuming that relatively few will be up , and able to be connected to via an application .
Ages ago , there was a LAN level utility for the Mac ( worked on System 6 and 7 ) which created a virtual Appleshare drive by using a chunk of hard disk space from all the linked up machines , and using encryption ( or obfuscation ) to ensure that only the administrator had full access to the share.Scaling a utility that keeps track of every write , how many splits ( including redundant ones ) and where would be extremely daunting .
It may be doable , but it would not even come close to the performance of a commercial cloud .
Reliability is iffish , especially after a long time as participating machines get reinstalled over time , so the central storing program would have to keep shuffling data around .
Of course , unless architected right , there is a central point of failure with the machines that assign the bits to the client machines.Legal issues also apply .
A cloud that is completely open will eventually be used for storing information that is highly illegal in some countries .
Would someone participating by offering some HDD space be able to be charged with possession , even though they had an encrypted chunk inaccessible to them ?
This is very hazy legal territory .
Some areas of the world could say its like storing a friend 's safe full of doobies ; its not accessible , but can still be considered possession .
[ 1 ] : I 'm calling it a stack because there are a number of layers before bits flung into the cloud hit a physical platter , from distribution among sites , to optional encryption , to an accounting system to not just know how much is stored , but how much for how long , then finally passing the objects to a backend database .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfortunately, this is where OSS is weak.
The larger companies (Google, Amazon) can afford the large iron and backend storage stacks [1].
For the uptimes that modern cloud storage has, the equipment costs are tremendous, because the machines that are able to do the large volume I/O over the net not just have to have performance, but be engineered around reliability, and that means large clusters distributed over geographically different regions storing identical data.I don't really see how an open source solution can compete here, unless it received funding from governments or research institutions.
Reliable cloud storage is all about physical hardware.The only way I can see an OSS cloud appearing is if someone makes a program that would get clients to set aside part of a hard disk.
Then, when someone writes to the cloud, the central server encrypts the data, then splits the data among clients assuming that relatively few will be up, and able to be connected to via an application.
Ages ago, there was a LAN level utility for the Mac (worked on System 6 and 7) which created a virtual Appleshare drive by using a chunk of hard disk space from all the linked up machines, and using encryption (or obfuscation) to ensure that only the administrator had full access to the share.Scaling a utility that keeps track of every write, how many splits (including redundant ones) and where would be extremely daunting.
It may be doable, but it would not even come close to the performance of a commercial cloud.
Reliability is iffish, especially after a long time as participating machines get reinstalled over time, so the central storing program would have to keep shuffling data around.
Of course, unless architected right, there is a central point of failure with the machines that assign the bits to the client machines.Legal issues also apply.
A cloud that is completely open will eventually be used for storing information that is highly illegal in some countries.
Would someone participating by offering some HDD space be able to be charged with possession, even though they had an encrypted chunk inaccessible to them?
This is very hazy legal territory.
Some areas of the world could say its like storing a friend's safe full of doobies; its not accessible, but can still be considered possession.
[1]:  I'm calling it a stack because there are a number of layers before bits flung into the cloud hit a physical platter, from distribution among sites, to optional encryption, to an accounting system to not just know how much is stored, but how much for how long, then finally passing the objects to a backend database.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575717</id>
	<title>When flying through a cloud.....</title>
	<author>3seas</author>
	<datestamp>1246620420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>.. well I'd rather not, especially if I have to trust proprietary software.</p><p>This is an intentional metaphor.... regarding cloud computing and the recent Air France tragedy.</p><p>cloud computing has the extra baggage of leaks and lags and outages in comparison to your local system on an UPS, that you can reset and take control over to overcome problems while having a better since of securing data/passangers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>.. well I 'd rather not , especially if I have to trust proprietary software.This is an intentional metaphor.... regarding cloud computing and the recent Air France tragedy.cloud computing has the extra baggage of leaks and lags and outages in comparison to your local system on an UPS , that you can reset and take control over to overcome problems while having a better since of securing data/passangers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>.. well I'd rather not, especially if I have to trust proprietary software.This is an intentional metaphor.... regarding cloud computing and the recent Air France tragedy.cloud computing has the extra baggage of leaks and lags and outages in comparison to your local system on an UPS, that you can reset and take control over to overcome problems while having a better since of securing data/passangers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574193</id>
	<title>FOSS market should be different</title>
	<author>Zantetsuken</author>
	<datestamp>1246652160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>While all the corporations go for "cloud computing" and turning your computer usage into a service paid for by hourly or monthly subscription, to the point that if you want ANY corporate backed OS and/or userland and GUI you pay a subscription, people who actually care about controlling their hardware and what their clock cycles are used for will turn to FOSS so they can have a real OS to do their work with, unlike all the idiots buying into cloud computing that could get by with a simple SSH tunnel...</htmltext>
<tokenext>While all the corporations go for " cloud computing " and turning your computer usage into a service paid for by hourly or monthly subscription , to the point that if you want ANY corporate backed OS and/or userland and GUI you pay a subscription , people who actually care about controlling their hardware and what their clock cycles are used for will turn to FOSS so they can have a real OS to do their work with , unlike all the idiots buying into cloud computing that could get by with a simple SSH tunnel.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While all the corporations go for "cloud computing" and turning your computer usage into a service paid for by hourly or monthly subscription, to the point that if you want ANY corporate backed OS and/or userland and GUI you pay a subscription, people who actually care about controlling their hardware and what their clock cycles are used for will turn to FOSS so they can have a real OS to do their work with, unlike all the idiots buying into cloud computing that could get by with a simple SSH tunnel...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574149</id>
	<title>OSS also not a big player in cheeseburger market.</title>
	<author>Vellmont</author>
	<datestamp>1246651740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe I'm missing something big here, but isn't "cloud computing" largely just a data delivery service, and not really "software"?  It's kind of hard to get a handle on "cloud computing" since it's such an amorphous buzzword.  Can someone give me a real example of an application that's "cloud computing" based.  I thought my little weather app telling me the temperature might be defined as "cloud computing".</p><p>If the above is true, I don't see how OSS can really make some big impact on "cloud computing" any more than it can make it on websites.  If it's not true, how could OSS big a big player in "cloud computing"?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe I 'm missing something big here , but is n't " cloud computing " largely just a data delivery service , and not really " software " ?
It 's kind of hard to get a handle on " cloud computing " since it 's such an amorphous buzzword .
Can someone give me a real example of an application that 's " cloud computing " based .
I thought my little weather app telling me the temperature might be defined as " cloud computing " .If the above is true , I do n't see how OSS can really make some big impact on " cloud computing " any more than it can make it on websites .
If it 's not true , how could OSS big a big player in " cloud computing " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe I'm missing something big here, but isn't "cloud computing" largely just a data delivery service, and not really "software"?
It's kind of hard to get a handle on "cloud computing" since it's such an amorphous buzzword.
Can someone give me a real example of an application that's "cloud computing" based.
I thought my little weather app telling me the temperature might be defined as "cloud computing".If the above is true, I don't see how OSS can really make some big impact on "cloud computing" any more than it can make it on websites.
If it's not true, how could OSS big a big player in "cloud computing"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574303</id>
	<title>I wonder...</title>
	<author>SanityInAnarchy</author>
	<datestamp>1246652880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wonder how many people are willing to pay a 25\% premium to run Windows on Amazon EC2?</p><p>It may be difficult for any startup, open source or not, to gain a foothold here. But when you're looking to reduce costs as much as possible, to sell a utility computing model, I don't see why you'd be adding extra software costs right away.</p><p>In fact, the summary mentions other things, like Puppet and Hadoop, that make an impact.</p><p>I don't know that anyone is claiming open source could provide such a service, any more than open source could provide free and open hardware. Even if you have a completely <a href="http://www.eucalyptus.com/open/" title="eucalyptus.com">open</a> [eucalyptus.com] <a href="http://opengraphics.org/" title="opengraphics.org">design</a> [opengraphics.org], you still probably need some sort of corporate entity to build and sell it.</p><p>But at the same time, I don't see why any "cloud" provider in their right mind would pass up things like Puppet or Eucalyptus. Indeed, this is exactly the kind of place where the typical objections to open source hold no water -- merely providing a service is most likely not going to force you to disclose any changes, and that assumes you have to change the project at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder how many people are willing to pay a 25 \ % premium to run Windows on Amazon EC2 ? It may be difficult for any startup , open source or not , to gain a foothold here .
But when you 're looking to reduce costs as much as possible , to sell a utility computing model , I do n't see why you 'd be adding extra software costs right away.In fact , the summary mentions other things , like Puppet and Hadoop , that make an impact.I do n't know that anyone is claiming open source could provide such a service , any more than open source could provide free and open hardware .
Even if you have a completely open [ eucalyptus.com ] design [ opengraphics.org ] , you still probably need some sort of corporate entity to build and sell it.But at the same time , I do n't see why any " cloud " provider in their right mind would pass up things like Puppet or Eucalyptus .
Indeed , this is exactly the kind of place where the typical objections to open source hold no water -- merely providing a service is most likely not going to force you to disclose any changes , and that assumes you have to change the project at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder how many people are willing to pay a 25\% premium to run Windows on Amazon EC2?It may be difficult for any startup, open source or not, to gain a foothold here.
But when you're looking to reduce costs as much as possible, to sell a utility computing model, I don't see why you'd be adding extra software costs right away.In fact, the summary mentions other things, like Puppet and Hadoop, that make an impact.I don't know that anyone is claiming open source could provide such a service, any more than open source could provide free and open hardware.
Even if you have a completely open [eucalyptus.com] design [opengraphics.org], you still probably need some sort of corporate entity to build and sell it.But at the same time, I don't see why any "cloud" provider in their right mind would pass up things like Puppet or Eucalyptus.
Indeed, this is exactly the kind of place where the typical objections to open source hold no water -- merely providing a service is most likely not going to force you to disclose any changes, and that assumes you have to change the project at all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28575091</id>
	<title>HIgher cost of entry</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1246615440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When you have to have a fully running infrastructure, the little guy has no real chance of competing on the 'service' side of clouds.</p><p>Now, competing on what you run ON ( or under ) the "cloud", OSS can still be relevant.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When you have to have a fully running infrastructure , the little guy has no real chance of competing on the 'service ' side of clouds.Now , competing on what you run ON ( or under ) the " cloud " , OSS can still be relevant .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you have to have a fully running infrastructure, the little guy has no real chance of competing on the 'service' side of clouds.Now, competing on what you run ON ( or under ) the "cloud", OSS can still be relevant.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28574115</id>
	<title>headline is backwards</title>
	<author>Punto</author>
	<datestamp>1246651500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>should be "Cloud computing facing a difficult battle for Relevance"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>should be " Cloud computing facing a difficult battle for Relevance "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>should be "Cloud computing facing a difficult battle for Relevance"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_03_1539249.28576503</id>
	<title>really?</title>
	<author>jipn4</author>
	<datestamp>1246627680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As far as I can tell, open source and Linux are being used far more widely in cloud computing than in corporate America.  Cloud computing is going to be a cut-throat business, and it will be tough for companies like Microsoft to compete.  Few of their usual dirty tricks work.  And the cost of switching is low.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as I can tell , open source and Linux are being used far more widely in cloud computing than in corporate America .
Cloud computing is going to be a cut-throat business , and it will be tough for companies like Microsoft to compete .
Few of their usual dirty tricks work .
And the cost of switching is low .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as I can tell, open source and Linux are being used far more widely in cloud computing than in corporate America.
Cloud computing is going to be a cut-throat business, and it will be tough for companies like Microsoft to compete.
Few of their usual dirty tricks work.
And the cost of switching is low.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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