<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_07_01_0639240</id>
	<title>100 Million Used Games Traded Each Year In the US</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1246443840000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>We occasionally discuss the complaints from video game publishers and developers about <a href="http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/06/04/236201/Publishers-Want-a-Slice-of-Used-Game-Market?from=rss">how used game sales are hurting them</a>, and how they've been testing out <a href="//games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/04/2256213&amp;tid=98">countermeasures disguised as features</a> to compensate. Now, industry analyst Michael Patcher has released a report which attempts to quantify that damage. Patcher estimates that <a href="http://kotaku.com/5304089/pachter-used-games-sales-at-100-million-annually-in-us-not-a-threat">used game sales and trades number around 100 million each year</a> in the US. However, despite the immense number of transactions, he doesn't think the used game market is as detrimental to sales of new games as the publishers think. "The vast majority of used games are not traded in until the original new game purchaser has finished playing, typically well beyond the window for a full retail priced new game sale. Thus, while there may be some limited substitution of used game purchases when GameStop employees 'push' used merchandise upon consumers lined up to buy new games, the vast majority of used game purchases occur more than two months after a new game is released. ... To the extent that there is a substitution effect, we estimate that fewer than 5\% of new game sales are impacted."</htmltext>
<tokenext>We occasionally discuss the complaints from video game publishers and developers about how used game sales are hurting them , and how they 've been testing out countermeasures disguised as features to compensate .
Now , industry analyst Michael Patcher has released a report which attempts to quantify that damage .
Patcher estimates that used game sales and trades number around 100 million each year in the US .
However , despite the immense number of transactions , he does n't think the used game market is as detrimental to sales of new games as the publishers think .
" The vast majority of used games are not traded in until the original new game purchaser has finished playing , typically well beyond the window for a full retail priced new game sale .
Thus , while there may be some limited substitution of used game purchases when GameStop employees 'push ' used merchandise upon consumers lined up to buy new games , the vast majority of used game purchases occur more than two months after a new game is released .
... To the extent that there is a substitution effect , we estimate that fewer than 5 \ % of new game sales are impacted .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We occasionally discuss the complaints from video game publishers and developers about how used game sales are hurting them, and how they've been testing out countermeasures disguised as features to compensate.
Now, industry analyst Michael Patcher has released a report which attempts to quantify that damage.
Patcher estimates that used game sales and trades number around 100 million each year in the US.
However, despite the immense number of transactions, he doesn't think the used game market is as detrimental to sales of new games as the publishers think.
"The vast majority of used games are not traded in until the original new game purchaser has finished playing, typically well beyond the window for a full retail priced new game sale.
Thus, while there may be some limited substitution of used game purchases when GameStop employees 'push' used merchandise upon consumers lined up to buy new games, the vast majority of used game purchases occur more than two months after a new game is released.
... To the extent that there is a substitution effect, we estimate that fewer than 5\% of new game sales are impacted.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540569</id>
	<title>Re:So should book publishers try to prevent tradin</title>
	<author>darthvader100</author>
	<datestamp>1246452060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>And look at all those immoral libraries.<br> <br>
What are they doing to book publishers?</htmltext>
<tokenext>And look at all those immoral libraries .
What are they doing to book publishers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And look at all those immoral libraries.
What are they doing to book publishers?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540273</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541261</id>
	<title>Re:They can't stand free trade?</title>
	<author>Xest</author>
	<datestamp>1246457820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have to agree. I've never actually sold a game second hand and in fact have pre-ordered most new games out for the 360 for the last 2 years spending thousands on games, but I've always thought it seems odd that if say someone in my family became massively ill and I had to dig up as much cash as possible from somewhere I'd be able to sell everything from my house to my toaster to my car to my XBox 360 games, but oddly would be unable to sell my Steam based DRM'd games.</p><p>The fact is games that impose technical measures to try and prevent resale such as hard copy games that require Steam activation are fairly unique as products across pretty much every single market in that they prevent a second hand sale. I can think of very few (well, actually none of the top of my head) other physical products that have a measure in place to prevent second hand sale.</p><p>It's not only that though, I have a friend that I do not believe is unique, he buys a few games, but really just doesn't have the cash to buy new titles all the time, he can just about afford it if he can trade the last game he bought for &pound;10 - &pound;20 or so and buy the new one at &pound;35 - &pound;40. Effectively then I think preventing second hand sale could be self defeating, certainly he would be unable to buy new games outright at &pound;40 a piece, they've got a scenario as so:</p><p>- Person 1 buys game at &pound;40<br>- Person 1 sells game for &pound;10 and buys new game for &pound;40 when value of sold game is now only &pound;20<br>- Person 2 buys traded in game for &pound;20</p><p>So the games industry has made &pound;80 of profit, but "lost" &pound;20, whilst without the second hand sale they may have halved their profits to &pound;40 if neither person could then afford to buy the new game or the second hand game. The problem is the games industry is assuming that if the second hand sales go that both people will just buy the game new making them &pound;100 to &pound;120. It's possible, but I think it's unrealistic. I think the best case scenario is that you could say goodbye to high release week sales as everyone who couldn't afford full priced games just waited for games to come down to second hand style prices anyway.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have to agree .
I 've never actually sold a game second hand and in fact have pre-ordered most new games out for the 360 for the last 2 years spending thousands on games , but I 've always thought it seems odd that if say someone in my family became massively ill and I had to dig up as much cash as possible from somewhere I 'd be able to sell everything from my house to my toaster to my car to my XBox 360 games , but oddly would be unable to sell my Steam based DRM 'd games.The fact is games that impose technical measures to try and prevent resale such as hard copy games that require Steam activation are fairly unique as products across pretty much every single market in that they prevent a second hand sale .
I can think of very few ( well , actually none of the top of my head ) other physical products that have a measure in place to prevent second hand sale.It 's not only that though , I have a friend that I do not believe is unique , he buys a few games , but really just does n't have the cash to buy new titles all the time , he can just about afford it if he can trade the last game he bought for   10 -   20 or so and buy the new one at   35 -   40 .
Effectively then I think preventing second hand sale could be self defeating , certainly he would be unable to buy new games outright at   40 a piece , they 've got a scenario as so : - Person 1 buys game at   40- Person 1 sells game for   10 and buys new game for   40 when value of sold game is now only   20- Person 2 buys traded in game for   20So the games industry has made   80 of profit , but " lost "   20 , whilst without the second hand sale they may have halved their profits to   40 if neither person could then afford to buy the new game or the second hand game .
The problem is the games industry is assuming that if the second hand sales go that both people will just buy the game new making them   100 to   120 .
It 's possible , but I think it 's unrealistic .
I think the best case scenario is that you could say goodbye to high release week sales as everyone who could n't afford full priced games just waited for games to come down to second hand style prices anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have to agree.
I've never actually sold a game second hand and in fact have pre-ordered most new games out for the 360 for the last 2 years spending thousands on games, but I've always thought it seems odd that if say someone in my family became massively ill and I had to dig up as much cash as possible from somewhere I'd be able to sell everything from my house to my toaster to my car to my XBox 360 games, but oddly would be unable to sell my Steam based DRM'd games.The fact is games that impose technical measures to try and prevent resale such as hard copy games that require Steam activation are fairly unique as products across pretty much every single market in that they prevent a second hand sale.
I can think of very few (well, actually none of the top of my head) other physical products that have a measure in place to prevent second hand sale.It's not only that though, I have a friend that I do not believe is unique, he buys a few games, but really just doesn't have the cash to buy new titles all the time, he can just about afford it if he can trade the last game he bought for £10 - £20 or so and buy the new one at £35 - £40.
Effectively then I think preventing second hand sale could be self defeating, certainly he would be unable to buy new games outright at £40 a piece, they've got a scenario as so:- Person 1 buys game at £40- Person 1 sells game for £10 and buys new game for £40 when value of sold game is now only £20- Person 2 buys traded in game for £20So the games industry has made £80 of profit, but "lost" £20, whilst without the second hand sale they may have halved their profits to £40 if neither person could then afford to buy the new game or the second hand game.
The problem is the games industry is assuming that if the second hand sales go that both people will just buy the game new making them £100 to £120.
It's possible, but I think it's unrealistic.
I think the best case scenario is that you could say goodbye to high release week sales as everyone who couldn't afford full priced games just waited for games to come down to second hand style prices anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540465</id>
	<title>Give it 5 years</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246450800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There will be a law and a whole industry dedicated to educating us as to how selling used games is piracy and only done by criminals, and that as patriotic americans you will recycle your games you dont want anymore, failure to comply will result in being arrested for infringing.</p><p>I wish I was joking.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There will be a law and a whole industry dedicated to educating us as to how selling used games is piracy and only done by criminals , and that as patriotic americans you will recycle your games you dont want anymore , failure to comply will result in being arrested for infringing.I wish I was joking .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There will be a law and a whole industry dedicated to educating us as to how selling used games is piracy and only done by criminals, and that as patriotic americans you will recycle your games you dont want anymore, failure to comply will result in being arrested for infringing.I wish I was joking.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540773</id>
	<title>Man, they keep trying don't they?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246454460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can resell a car as long as it works too can't you?<br>You can resell your TV's, DVD players, Lawnmower, Children(put em up for adoption), dogs, cats, food, toiletpaper, heck, you can even sell your poo to be procesed as furtelizer.</p><p>Its a basic right to resell your shit when your trough with it.</p><p>Its bullshit and a pandora's box if they regulated resale of anything.</p><p>Their problem is the same as with all other Big companies out there. Since the dawn of the digital age, 2nd hand sales have both massivly grown(because its way easyer to reach a massive audience to resell to) and its become much more concentrated and publicly viewable how much it turns over.</p><p>They just want a piece of a pie they never had and should never have any right of cutting in to.</p><p>They make their money with the initial original sale and that should be it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can resell a car as long as it works too ca n't you ? You can resell your TV 's , DVD players , Lawnmower , Children ( put em up for adoption ) , dogs , cats , food , toiletpaper , heck , you can even sell your poo to be procesed as furtelizer.Its a basic right to resell your shit when your trough with it.Its bullshit and a pandora 's box if they regulated resale of anything.Their problem is the same as with all other Big companies out there .
Since the dawn of the digital age , 2nd hand sales have both massivly grown ( because its way easyer to reach a massive audience to resell to ) and its become much more concentrated and publicly viewable how much it turns over.They just want a piece of a pie they never had and should never have any right of cutting in to.They make their money with the initial original sale and that should be it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can resell a car as long as it works too can't you?You can resell your TV's, DVD players, Lawnmower, Children(put em up for adoption), dogs, cats, food, toiletpaper, heck, you can even sell your poo to be procesed as furtelizer.Its a basic right to resell your shit when your trough with it.Its bullshit and a pandora's box if they regulated resale of anything.Their problem is the same as with all other Big companies out there.
Since the dawn of the digital age, 2nd hand sales have both massivly grown(because its way easyer to reach a massive audience to resell to) and its become much more concentrated and publicly viewable how much it turns over.They just want a piece of a pie they never had and should never have any right of cutting in to.They make their money with the initial original sale and that should be it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28542271</id>
	<title>Re:Seriously...</title>
	<author>bogjobber</author>
	<datestamp>1246462800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Assuming that the product is the same, how exactly is that unscrupulous?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Assuming that the product is the same , how exactly is that unscrupulous ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Assuming that the product is the same, how exactly is that unscrupulous?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540669</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541087</id>
	<title>If they want a disposable product lower the price!</title>
	<author>erroneus</author>
	<datestamp>1246456800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who is prepared to shell out $60 for a single game without any possibility of resale?</p><p>To be frank, that $60 price mark has prevented me from buying any new games.  I have entertainment dollars to spend, but like anyone else, I like to be careful about how I spend them.  When it comes to games, I consider anything over $40 to be something that requires some pondering where the end result is that I usually don't buy.</p><p>And now they want to discourage or even prevent the possibility of resale?  Then they had better start changing some other policies.  Either allow refunds or exchanges for things that are not identical or lower the price to $30 or less.  Increasing risk is being placed on the consumer whose only recourse is to complain... and stop buying.</p><p>Killing the second sale market could do some serious damage to the first sale market.  Usually, I presume that they have thought these things through, but now I am having my doubts.  Game publishers are getting as bad as music and movie publishers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who is prepared to shell out $ 60 for a single game without any possibility of resale ? To be frank , that $ 60 price mark has prevented me from buying any new games .
I have entertainment dollars to spend , but like anyone else , I like to be careful about how I spend them .
When it comes to games , I consider anything over $ 40 to be something that requires some pondering where the end result is that I usually do n't buy.And now they want to discourage or even prevent the possibility of resale ?
Then they had better start changing some other policies .
Either allow refunds or exchanges for things that are not identical or lower the price to $ 30 or less .
Increasing risk is being placed on the consumer whose only recourse is to complain... and stop buying.Killing the second sale market could do some serious damage to the first sale market .
Usually , I presume that they have thought these things through , but now I am having my doubts .
Game publishers are getting as bad as music and movie publishers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who is prepared to shell out $60 for a single game without any possibility of resale?To be frank, that $60 price mark has prevented me from buying any new games.
I have entertainment dollars to spend, but like anyone else, I like to be careful about how I spend them.
When it comes to games, I consider anything over $40 to be something that requires some pondering where the end result is that I usually don't buy.And now they want to discourage or even prevent the possibility of resale?
Then they had better start changing some other policies.
Either allow refunds or exchanges for things that are not identical or lower the price to $30 or less.
Increasing risk is being placed on the consumer whose only recourse is to complain... and stop buying.Killing the second sale market could do some serious damage to the first sale market.
Usually, I presume that they have thought these things through, but now I am having my doubts.
Game publishers are getting as bad as music and movie publishers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540249</id>
	<title>Seriously...</title>
	<author>iCantSpell</author>
	<datestamp>1246447860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is insane beyond belief.</p><p>Should MSI get a cut of the sales if I sell my laptop?</p><p>Why should game companies get a cut of resell?</p><p>Even candy is labelled "no individual re-sell".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is insane beyond belief.Should MSI get a cut of the sales if I sell my laptop ? Why should game companies get a cut of resell ? Even candy is labelled " no individual re-sell " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is insane beyond belief.Should MSI get a cut of the sales if I sell my laptop?Why should game companies get a cut of resell?Even candy is labelled "no individual re-sell".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540445</id>
	<title>Saying that used sales are "hurting them" is bogus</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246450560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>How are the sales of used games "hurting them", when this is the market model that has <b>always</b> been around, and nothing has changed????????
<br> <br>
The only people saying that the sale of used games is "hurting them", are people who do not understand the law, or greedy people. Or both. But there is no middle ground.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How are the sales of used games " hurting them " , when this is the market model that has always been around , and nothing has changed ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
The only people saying that the sale of used games is " hurting them " , are people who do not understand the law , or greedy people .
Or both .
But there is no middle ground .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How are the sales of used games "hurting them", when this is the market model that has always been around, and nothing has changed????????
The only people saying that the sale of used games is "hurting them", are people who do not understand the law, or greedy people.
Or both.
But there is no middle ground.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541145</id>
	<title>Re:Seriously...</title>
	<author>eudaemon</author>
	<datestamp>1246457100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LOL Seriously.  But the reason things are marked "no individual resale" is because the person who<br>sold it packaged it in bulk for sale to the public. Probably to make a certain profit, but just<br>to give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps with less packaging that items meant for resale would have.</p><p>Either way it has absolutely nothing to do with actual resale of games, or anything else that is a durable<br>item, versus something that's a consumable.  I regularly purchase used games for my disabled aunt on a fixed<br>income - and even then the $8 or $10 I pay for her games I consider steep for something that's 6 or 7 years old.<br>People are living in a fantasy world if they think the million'th sale or resale of any title is going to yield<br>the same profit that the first did.  Trying to legislate that into being (no resale of games or CDs!11eleven) just<br>means the usual slashdot paths are taken: 1) finding artists or publishers who are consumer friendly (open source<br>publishing, as it were), 2) huge reduction in demand due to the egregious restrictions, 3) piracy. Note: I list<br>the huge reduction in demand *first* because despite RIAA/MPAA's protestations it is format restrictions, cost,<br>and product quality that drive down retail consumer demand, not piracy.  Piracy is just the after-effect<br>once the barrier to entry for a legitimate sale is too high.</p><p>Just my opinion, of course.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LOL Seriously .
But the reason things are marked " no individual resale " is because the person whosold it packaged it in bulk for sale to the public .
Probably to make a certain profit , but justto give them the benefit of the doubt , perhaps with less packaging that items meant for resale would have.Either way it has absolutely nothing to do with actual resale of games , or anything else that is a durableitem , versus something that 's a consumable .
I regularly purchase used games for my disabled aunt on a fixedincome - and even then the $ 8 or $ 10 I pay for her games I consider steep for something that 's 6 or 7 years old.People are living in a fantasy world if they think the million'th sale or resale of any title is going to yieldthe same profit that the first did .
Trying to legislate that into being ( no resale of games or CDs ! 11eleven ) justmeans the usual slashdot paths are taken : 1 ) finding artists or publishers who are consumer friendly ( open sourcepublishing , as it were ) , 2 ) huge reduction in demand due to the egregious restrictions , 3 ) piracy .
Note : I listthe huge reduction in demand * first * because despite RIAA/MPAA 's protestations it is format restrictions , cost,and product quality that drive down retail consumer demand , not piracy .
Piracy is just the after-effectonce the barrier to entry for a legitimate sale is too high.Just my opinion , of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LOL Seriously.
But the reason things are marked "no individual resale" is because the person whosold it packaged it in bulk for sale to the public.
Probably to make a certain profit, but justto give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps with less packaging that items meant for resale would have.Either way it has absolutely nothing to do with actual resale of games, or anything else that is a durableitem, versus something that's a consumable.
I regularly purchase used games for my disabled aunt on a fixedincome - and even then the $8 or $10 I pay for her games I consider steep for something that's 6 or 7 years old.People are living in a fantasy world if they think the million'th sale or resale of any title is going to yieldthe same profit that the first did.
Trying to legislate that into being (no resale of games or CDs!11eleven) justmeans the usual slashdot paths are taken: 1) finding artists or publishers who are consumer friendly (open sourcepublishing, as it were), 2) huge reduction in demand due to the egregious restrictions, 3) piracy.
Note: I listthe huge reduction in demand *first* because despite RIAA/MPAA's protestations it is format restrictions, cost,and product quality that drive down retail consumer demand, not piracy.
Piracy is just the after-effectonce the barrier to entry for a legitimate sale is too high.Just my opinion, of course.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540593</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540413</id>
	<title>Good games in perspective!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246450140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If a game has little replay value or is really bad, it is traded quickly. So, if the game companies get a share of used sales, games with no replay value and really bad games would generate the biggest revenue per individual game sale.</p><p>That would certainly be a good incitation to make great games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If a game has little replay value or is really bad , it is traded quickly .
So , if the game companies get a share of used sales , games with no replay value and really bad games would generate the biggest revenue per individual game sale.That would certainly be a good incitation to make great games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If a game has little replay value or is really bad, it is traded quickly.
So, if the game companies get a share of used sales, games with no replay value and really bad games would generate the biggest revenue per individual game sale.That would certainly be a good incitation to make great games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541063</id>
	<title>$50 for a game is a lot of money</title>
	<author>tjstork</author>
	<datestamp>1246456620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's that games are $50, which makes it a problem.  I think in the minds of the American consumer, $20 isn't "too much money", but $50 is something that makes you think a little bit.  Earlier this year, that would have been at least 25 shares of Ford stock.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's that games are $ 50 , which makes it a problem .
I think in the minds of the American consumer , $ 20 is n't " too much money " , but $ 50 is something that makes you think a little bit .
Earlier this year , that would have been at least 25 shares of Ford stock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's that games are $50, which makes it a problem.
I think in the minds of the American consumer, $20 isn't "too much money", but $50 is something that makes you think a little bit.
Earlier this year, that would have been at least 25 shares of Ford stock.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540459</id>
	<title>Pricing, Pricing, Pricing!!!</title>
	<author>qlayer2</author>
	<datestamp>1246450680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>There are a few games a year I look forward to, whether console or PC, that I will buy on release date, and purchase for $50-$60.  Many other purchases are games that may be recommended later by friends, or games that looked interesting, but not interesting enough to pay the asking price for, so I'll wait until the price comes down.
<br> <br>
<a href="http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/02/20/0750203/Do-Video-Games-Cost-Too-Much/" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/02/20/0750203/Do-Video-Games-Cost-Too-Much/</a> [slashdot.org]
<br> <br>
We've discussed this before, and the consensus is easy to spot:  many games are not worth the asking price.  You'll sell more games if at 1-3 months after launch, you simply drop the price point to an appropriate range, depending on the total units you sold at launch and the total expected units.  It's been proven- some games sell well years and years after release for a discounted price.
<br> <br>
Of course, this has two impacts- if you enjoy selling games back to places like gamestop, their resell value will be diminished, as the retail price will be lowered quickly.  Also, unless you have a strong opening for your game, you simply won't sell them at full retail if you have created the expectation of lowered prices shortly in the future.
<br> <br>
I'm willing to pay $20 for new games giving the developers and publishers the profit, rather than pay $15-18 for a used copy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There are a few games a year I look forward to , whether console or PC , that I will buy on release date , and purchase for $ 50- $ 60 .
Many other purchases are games that may be recommended later by friends , or games that looked interesting , but not interesting enough to pay the asking price for , so I 'll wait until the price comes down .
http : //games.slashdot.org/story/09/02/20/0750203/Do-Video-Games-Cost-Too-Much/ [ slashdot.org ] We 've discussed this before , and the consensus is easy to spot : many games are not worth the asking price .
You 'll sell more games if at 1-3 months after launch , you simply drop the price point to an appropriate range , depending on the total units you sold at launch and the total expected units .
It 's been proven- some games sell well years and years after release for a discounted price .
Of course , this has two impacts- if you enjoy selling games back to places like gamestop , their resell value will be diminished , as the retail price will be lowered quickly .
Also , unless you have a strong opening for your game , you simply wo n't sell them at full retail if you have created the expectation of lowered prices shortly in the future .
I 'm willing to pay $ 20 for new games giving the developers and publishers the profit , rather than pay $ 15-18 for a used copy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are a few games a year I look forward to, whether console or PC, that I will buy on release date, and purchase for $50-$60.
Many other purchases are games that may be recommended later by friends, or games that looked interesting, but not interesting enough to pay the asking price for, so I'll wait until the price comes down.
http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/02/20/0750203/Do-Video-Games-Cost-Too-Much/ [slashdot.org]
 
We've discussed this before, and the consensus is easy to spot:  many games are not worth the asking price.
You'll sell more games if at 1-3 months after launch, you simply drop the price point to an appropriate range, depending on the total units you sold at launch and the total expected units.
It's been proven- some games sell well years and years after release for a discounted price.
Of course, this has two impacts- if you enjoy selling games back to places like gamestop, their resell value will be diminished, as the retail price will be lowered quickly.
Also, unless you have a strong opening for your game, you simply won't sell them at full retail if you have created the expectation of lowered prices shortly in the future.
I'm willing to pay $20 for new games giving the developers and publishers the profit, rather than pay $15-18 for a used copy.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541565</id>
	<title>Re:Used game sales do not hurt the game industry!</title>
	<author>dfxm</author>
	<datestamp>1246459560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If publishers want to get around the firs sale doctrine, shouldn't they just sell licenses to their games rather than the games themselves?<br> <br>With the advent of online game stores built into the consoles, shouldn't this be much easier? All while taking away avenues for places like Gamestop to sell games?<br> <br>I agree, this solution would be bad for consumers, but are the publishers just not creative enough? Or are they shifting that way, but very slowly?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If publishers want to get around the firs sale doctrine , should n't they just sell licenses to their games rather than the games themselves ?
With the advent of online game stores built into the consoles , should n't this be much easier ?
All while taking away avenues for places like Gamestop to sell games ?
I agree , this solution would be bad for consumers , but are the publishers just not creative enough ?
Or are they shifting that way , but very slowly ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If publishers want to get around the firs sale doctrine, shouldn't they just sell licenses to their games rather than the games themselves?
With the advent of online game stores built into the consoles, shouldn't this be much easier?
All while taking away avenues for places like Gamestop to sell games?
I agree, this solution would be bad for consumers, but are the publishers just not creative enough?
Or are they shifting that way, but very slowly?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28565253</id>
	<title>Re:The ability to resell add value to new games...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246532940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Imagine if you were buying a new car, and knew there was no way to resell it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Would that impact the price you were willing to pay?</i><br>No.... because I'm not a consumer whore and don't feel the need to update my car every few years.  My cars stay with me till it dies.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Imagine if you were buying a new car , and knew there was no way to resell it ... Would that impact the price you were willing to pay ? No.... because I 'm not a consumer whore and do n't feel the need to update my car every few years .
My cars stay with me till it dies .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Imagine if you were buying a new car, and knew there was no way to resell it ... Would that impact the price you were willing to pay?No.... because I'm not a consumer whore and don't feel the need to update my car every few years.
My cars stay with me till it dies.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541233</id>
	<title>Re:Game companies have a way to counter this</title>
	<author>BenevolentP</author>
	<datestamp>1246457700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If we only make games with great replay value, we'll only have roguelikes, sportsgames, randomly generated strategy games, motion-controlled solitaire collections and maybe a few other genres i can't think of right now (multiplayer games are a different beast obviously).</p><p>We wouldn't have a Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, Persona, Monkey Island, Sam &amp; Max, Baldur's Gate etc.</p><p>Some of these provided me with 80-100 hours of fun, though i wouldn't think of playing them again. For me, games like this are like a good book - i will probably never read it again, but i still leave it on my shelf.</p><p>Replay value really isn't and shouldn't be that much of a point when it comes to games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If we only make games with great replay value , we 'll only have roguelikes , sportsgames , randomly generated strategy games , motion-controlled solitaire collections and maybe a few other genres i ca n't think of right now ( multiplayer games are a different beast obviously ) .We would n't have a Mass Effect , Final Fantasy , Persona , Monkey Island , Sam &amp; Max , Baldur 's Gate etc.Some of these provided me with 80-100 hours of fun , though i would n't think of playing them again .
For me , games like this are like a good book - i will probably never read it again , but i still leave it on my shelf.Replay value really is n't and should n't be that much of a point when it comes to games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we only make games with great replay value, we'll only have roguelikes, sportsgames, randomly generated strategy games, motion-controlled solitaire collections and maybe a few other genres i can't think of right now (multiplayer games are a different beast obviously).We wouldn't have a Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, Persona, Monkey Island, Sam &amp; Max, Baldur's Gate etc.Some of these provided me with 80-100 hours of fun, though i wouldn't think of playing them again.
For me, games like this are like a good book - i will probably never read it again, but i still leave it on my shelf.Replay value really isn't and shouldn't be that much of a point when it comes to games.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540613</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540837</id>
	<title>Re:So should book publishers try to prevent tradin</title>
	<author>dontPanik</author>
	<datestamp>1246454880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Book publishers have a great racket where if they want to make more money on books and prevent people (esp. college students) from reusing books, they put out a new edition.
<br>
<br>Just fix a few typos, and voila! It's like you have a new book to sell.
<br>And if you dare try to walk into a college class with the old edition you are SURE to fail...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Book publishers have a great racket where if they want to make more money on books and prevent people ( esp .
college students ) from reusing books , they put out a new edition .
Just fix a few typos , and voila !
It 's like you have a new book to sell .
And if you dare try to walk into a college class with the old edition you are SURE to fail.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Book publishers have a great racket where if they want to make more money on books and prevent people (esp.
college students) from reusing books, they put out a new edition.
Just fix a few typos, and voila!
It's like you have a new book to sell.
And if you dare try to walk into a college class with the old edition you are SURE to fail...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540273</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540507</id>
	<title>Used game market makes new games more affordable</title>
	<author>daffmeister</author>
	<datestamp>1246451460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How many people buy a new game knowing that they can sell it on the used market when they've finished? So the cost to them for the game is effectively lower. How many would not buy the new game, or buy fewer, if that market wasn't there?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How many people buy a new game knowing that they can sell it on the used market when they 've finished ?
So the cost to them for the game is effectively lower .
How many would not buy the new game , or buy fewer , if that market was n't there ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How many people buy a new game knowing that they can sell it on the used market when they've finished?
So the cost to them for the game is effectively lower.
How many would not buy the new game, or buy fewer, if that market wasn't there?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28544395</id>
	<title>Re:So should book publishers try to prevent tradin</title>
	<author>th0mas\_g</author>
	<datestamp>1246470000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Especially school books.</p></div><p>Mod up! I used to eat for a week off one semester's worth of book-buy-back.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Especially school books.Mod up !
I used to eat for a week off one semester 's worth of book-buy-back .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Especially school books.Mod up!
I used to eat for a week off one semester's worth of book-buy-back.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540721</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540487</id>
	<title>What a lod of bullcrap</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246451040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Jumpin' Jebus.</p><p>What next ?  Are Fender going to start complaining that the local pawn shop is costing them millions of dollars due to the second hand guitar market.</p><p>What a bunch of assholes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Jumpin ' Jebus.What next ?
Are Fender going to start complaining that the local pawn shop is costing them millions of dollars due to the second hand guitar market.What a bunch of assholes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Jumpin' Jebus.What next ?
Are Fender going to start complaining that the local pawn shop is costing them millions of dollars due to the second hand guitar market.What a bunch of assholes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28542267</id>
	<title>Re:Seriously...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246462800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is over the fact that the individual units lack the legally required nutritional or ingredient information that is required to be on the package when sold.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is over the fact that the individual units lack the legally required nutritional or ingredient information that is required to be on the package when sold .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is over the fact that the individual units lack the legally required nutritional or ingredient information that is required to be on the package when sold.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540593</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28542293</id>
	<title>Here is a magical way to solve this "problem"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246462980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>MAKE SINGLE-PLAYER GAMES WITH HIGH REPLAY VALUE.</p><p>Make absolutely damn sure the game is worth playing over and over again before you box it and ship it. Include multiple endings, tons of sidequests, a New Game + feature, and/or post-game content. Three of my favorite RPGs of all time - Chrono Trigger, Valkyrie Profile, and Dragon Quest VIII - have at least two of the four things I mentioned that create high replay value in single-player games.</p><p>Multi-player games probably survive in the average gamer's house longer than single-player games do, because the whole point of multiplayer games is to play them competitively with your friends repeatedly until you get sick of them or until the new version comes out (the Madden franchise, racing games, Super Smash Bros, etc). With single player games, though, you are playing against the software itself.</p><p>If there is no compelling reason for me to play a game again after I beat it the first time, you'd better believe I'm listing it on eBay right after the end credits roll. Give me a reason not to sell the game, developers, and I promise I won't. CT, VP and DQ8 are never leaving my collection.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MAKE SINGLE-PLAYER GAMES WITH HIGH REPLAY VALUE.Make absolutely damn sure the game is worth playing over and over again before you box it and ship it .
Include multiple endings , tons of sidequests , a New Game + feature , and/or post-game content .
Three of my favorite RPGs of all time - Chrono Trigger , Valkyrie Profile , and Dragon Quest VIII - have at least two of the four things I mentioned that create high replay value in single-player games.Multi-player games probably survive in the average gamer 's house longer than single-player games do , because the whole point of multiplayer games is to play them competitively with your friends repeatedly until you get sick of them or until the new version comes out ( the Madden franchise , racing games , Super Smash Bros , etc ) .
With single player games , though , you are playing against the software itself.If there is no compelling reason for me to play a game again after I beat it the first time , you 'd better believe I 'm listing it on eBay right after the end credits roll .
Give me a reason not to sell the game , developers , and I promise I wo n't .
CT , VP and DQ8 are never leaving my collection .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MAKE SINGLE-PLAYER GAMES WITH HIGH REPLAY VALUE.Make absolutely damn sure the game is worth playing over and over again before you box it and ship it.
Include multiple endings, tons of sidequests, a New Game + feature, and/or post-game content.
Three of my favorite RPGs of all time - Chrono Trigger, Valkyrie Profile, and Dragon Quest VIII - have at least two of the four things I mentioned that create high replay value in single-player games.Multi-player games probably survive in the average gamer's house longer than single-player games do, because the whole point of multiplayer games is to play them competitively with your friends repeatedly until you get sick of them or until the new version comes out (the Madden franchise, racing games, Super Smash Bros, etc).
With single player games, though, you are playing against the software itself.If there is no compelling reason for me to play a game again after I beat it the first time, you'd better believe I'm listing it on eBay right after the end credits roll.
Give me a reason not to sell the game, developers, and I promise I won't.
CT, VP and DQ8 are never leaving my collection.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540421</id>
	<title>The ability to resell add value to new games....</title>
	<author>ThinkThis</author>
	<datestamp>1246450260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>When you justify buying a new game at $60, knowing that you can resell it and maybe get half your money back makes it a little bit easier.  Without that ability, the value of the game goes way down.

Imagine if you were buying a new car, and knew there was no way to resell it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...  Would that impact the price you were willing to pay?</htmltext>
<tokenext>When you justify buying a new game at $ 60 , knowing that you can resell it and maybe get half your money back makes it a little bit easier .
Without that ability , the value of the game goes way down .
Imagine if you were buying a new car , and knew there was no way to resell it ... Would that impact the price you were willing to pay ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When you justify buying a new game at $60, knowing that you can resell it and maybe get half your money back makes it a little bit easier.
Without that ability, the value of the game goes way down.
Imagine if you were buying a new car, and knew there was no way to resell it ...  Would that impact the price you were willing to pay?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540593</id>
	<title>Re:Seriously...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246452300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Even candy is labelled "no individual re-sell".</i></p><p>Ok, that's braindead. I cannot imagine that the used chewing gum market impacts the sale of new gum.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even candy is labelled " no individual re-sell " .Ok , that 's braindead .
I can not imagine that the used chewing gum market impacts the sale of new gum .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even candy is labelled "no individual re-sell".Ok, that's braindead.
I cannot imagine that the used chewing gum market impacts the sale of new gum.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540747</id>
	<title>It doesn't matter</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246454160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even if used games sales are ass fucking them raw, users have a legitimate legal right of first sale. They can go pound sand.</p><p>I'm just hoping they lose a class action lawsuit over their SecuROM crap &amp; install limit bullshit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even if used games sales are ass fucking them raw , users have a legitimate legal right of first sale .
They can go pound sand.I 'm just hoping they lose a class action lawsuit over their SecuROM crap &amp; install limit bullshit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even if used games sales are ass fucking them raw, users have a legitimate legal right of first sale.
They can go pound sand.I'm just hoping they lose a class action lawsuit over their SecuROM crap &amp; install limit bullshit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540529</id>
	<title>Car analogy!</title>
	<author>White Flame</author>
	<datestamp>1246451760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So if this is supposed to be so wrong (from the eyes of the original seller), why aren't car manufacturers trying to clamp down on used car sales?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So if this is supposed to be so wrong ( from the eyes of the original seller ) , why are n't car manufacturers trying to clamp down on used car sales ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if this is supposed to be so wrong (from the eyes of the original seller), why aren't car manufacturers trying to clamp down on used car sales?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540627</id>
	<title>Does it really fucking matter?</title>
	<author>darkitecture</author>
	<datestamp>1246452600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Honestly, does it really fucking matter?<br>
<br>
It doesn't matter if 100 used games are traded each year or 100 million. GAME COMPANIES GOT THEIR CUT WHEN THEY FUCKING SOLD IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.<br>
<br>
I don't give a shit if it takes 5\% or 95\% of their 'potential revenue' away - JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE ENTITLED TO IT.<br>
<br>
In the puntastic words of someone funnier than me, it's not rocket surgery. Geez.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Honestly , does it really fucking matter ?
It does n't matter if 100 used games are traded each year or 100 million .
GAME COMPANIES GOT THEIR CUT WHEN THEY FUCKING SOLD IT IN THE FIRST PLACE .
I do n't give a shit if it takes 5 \ % or 95 \ % of their 'potential revenue ' away - JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT IT DOES N'T MEAN YOU 'RE ENTITLED TO IT .
In the puntastic words of someone funnier than me , it 's not rocket surgery .
Geez .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Honestly, does it really fucking matter?
It doesn't matter if 100 used games are traded each year or 100 million.
GAME COMPANIES GOT THEIR CUT WHEN THEY FUCKING SOLD IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I don't give a shit if it takes 5\% or 95\% of their 'potential revenue' away - JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE ENTITLED TO IT.
In the puntastic words of someone funnier than me, it's not rocket surgery.
Geez.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541499</id>
	<title>Re:Used game sales do not hurt the game industry!</title>
	<author>mochan\_s</author>
	<datestamp>1246459260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The main issue is that once it sells a copy, It no longer has any resale rights to that copy.</p></div></blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure that's what they want to change.

</p><p>Not because of greed or anything, but because of a more insidious problem - there is an entire industry based around used game sales and trading.

</p><p>The customer buys the game for $60, sells it used to the store for $20 and the store sells it for $45. Before you say Amazon or eBay, they have really high commission rates on video games - basic 15\% + shipping price cut + money handling fees ($1 Amazon fee or paypal fees). So, some stores then instead fixate on used games.

</p><p>I'm sure what the video game industry wants is to get the used game industry somehow part of the video game industry itself so that money would directly go towards video game development rather than 10 chain stores in a square mile thing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The main issue is that once it sells a copy , It no longer has any resale rights to that copy.I 'm pretty sure that 's what they want to change .
Not because of greed or anything , but because of a more insidious problem - there is an entire industry based around used game sales and trading .
The customer buys the game for $ 60 , sells it used to the store for $ 20 and the store sells it for $ 45 .
Before you say Amazon or eBay , they have really high commission rates on video games - basic 15 \ % + shipping price cut + money handling fees ( $ 1 Amazon fee or paypal fees ) .
So , some stores then instead fixate on used games .
I 'm sure what the video game industry wants is to get the used game industry somehow part of the video game industry itself so that money would directly go towards video game development rather than 10 chain stores in a square mile thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The main issue is that once it sells a copy, It no longer has any resale rights to that copy.I'm pretty sure that's what they want to change.
Not because of greed or anything, but because of a more insidious problem - there is an entire industry based around used game sales and trading.
The customer buys the game for $60, sells it used to the store for $20 and the store sells it for $45.
Before you say Amazon or eBay, they have really high commission rates on video games - basic 15\% + shipping price cut + money handling fees ($1 Amazon fee or paypal fees).
So, some stores then instead fixate on used games.
I'm sure what the video game industry wants is to get the used game industry somehow part of the video game industry itself so that money would directly go towards video game development rather than 10 chain stores in a square mile thing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540723</id>
	<title>Re:They can't stand free trade?</title>
	<author>Inda</author>
	<datestamp>1246453920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I sell my 360 games on eBay all the time. I buy all my games from there too.<br><br>Last game I bought was FIFA 2009. It had the original Gamestation sticker on it, a new Cash Converters sticker on that, another electronic secondhand shop's sticker on that. I currently have it up for sale on eBay, minus the stickers. After tomorrow, the game will have passed though a minimum of five people's hands. Excellent.<br><br>Fuck 'em indeed. This is all about reduce, reuse and recycle, minus the reduce bit. Fuck 'em five times.<br><br>Out of interest, I would have kept the game forever but you just know EA will bring out 2010 in a month's time. It'll be on eBay a month later at a reasonable price.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I sell my 360 games on eBay all the time .
I buy all my games from there too.Last game I bought was FIFA 2009 .
It had the original Gamestation sticker on it , a new Cash Converters sticker on that , another electronic secondhand shop 's sticker on that .
I currently have it up for sale on eBay , minus the stickers .
After tomorrow , the game will have passed though a minimum of five people 's hands .
Excellent.Fuck 'em indeed .
This is all about reduce , reuse and recycle , minus the reduce bit .
Fuck 'em five times.Out of interest , I would have kept the game forever but you just know EA will bring out 2010 in a month 's time .
It 'll be on eBay a month later at a reasonable price .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I sell my 360 games on eBay all the time.
I buy all my games from there too.Last game I bought was FIFA 2009.
It had the original Gamestation sticker on it, a new Cash Converters sticker on that, another electronic secondhand shop's sticker on that.
I currently have it up for sale on eBay, minus the stickers.
After tomorrow, the game will have passed though a minimum of five people's hands.
Excellent.Fuck 'em indeed.
This is all about reduce, reuse and recycle, minus the reduce bit.
Fuck 'em five times.Out of interest, I would have kept the game forever but you just know EA will bring out 2010 in a month's time.
It'll be on eBay a month later at a reasonable price.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541377</id>
	<title>Re:So essentially he is saying...</title>
	<author>b4dc0d3r</author>
	<datestamp>1246458480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I bought a PS2 in December.  Not a typo - I have 25 games and paid between $6 and $20 for them.  $20 is what the red-label "Greatest hits" goes for NEW so I don't think buying it used and expecting to pay no more than that is unreasonable.</p><p>But at $20, I don't think I would get much re-selling it, so I expect to have these until I get rid of the whole system and all games at one low, low price.  Not for the money, just to get it out the house really.</p><p>So no, used game sales aren't hurting new sales in my case, they are actually the only reason I bought a game system, and the 3 games I bought new.  When I can't find any more decent PS2 games, I'll tink about upgrading to the next level.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I bought a PS2 in December .
Not a typo - I have 25 games and paid between $ 6 and $ 20 for them .
$ 20 is what the red-label " Greatest hits " goes for NEW so I do n't think buying it used and expecting to pay no more than that is unreasonable.But at $ 20 , I do n't think I would get much re-selling it , so I expect to have these until I get rid of the whole system and all games at one low , low price .
Not for the money , just to get it out the house really.So no , used game sales are n't hurting new sales in my case , they are actually the only reason I bought a game system , and the 3 games I bought new .
When I ca n't find any more decent PS2 games , I 'll tink about upgrading to the next level .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bought a PS2 in December.
Not a typo - I have 25 games and paid between $6 and $20 for them.
$20 is what the red-label "Greatest hits" goes for NEW so I don't think buying it used and expecting to pay no more than that is unreasonable.But at $20, I don't think I would get much re-selling it, so I expect to have these until I get rid of the whole system and all games at one low, low price.
Not for the money, just to get it out the house really.So no, used game sales aren't hurting new sales in my case, they are actually the only reason I bought a game system, and the 3 games I bought new.
When I can't find any more decent PS2 games, I'll tink about upgrading to the next level.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540317</id>
	<title>They can't stand free trade?</title>
	<author>Inverted Intellect</author>
	<datestamp>1246448820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fuck 'em.</p><p>I actually collect games rather than sell them, but I reserve the right to do with my physical copies and registered accounts what common morality affords me, broken EULAs or no.</p><p>I frankly don't care how little or how much they "lose" through after market trading. Get off my lawn.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fuck 'em.I actually collect games rather than sell them , but I reserve the right to do with my physical copies and registered accounts what common morality affords me , broken EULAs or no.I frankly do n't care how little or how much they " lose " through after market trading .
Get off my lawn .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fuck 'em.I actually collect games rather than sell them, but I reserve the right to do with my physical copies and registered accounts what common morality affords me, broken EULAs or no.I frankly don't care how little or how much they "lose" through after market trading.
Get off my lawn.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540541</id>
	<title>Moral equivocating in 3...2...1...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246451940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>LOL, today's the day, California!  Today's the day your state has to issue IOUs because you all couldn't bother electing people with any common sense.  You couldn't elect people who even knew how to add and subtract, LOL!  What a bunch of freaking morons you all are.  You got the big-ass nanny welfare state you wanted, and now you can't afford it!  LOL, just LOL!  Hey fellow Americans, take note.  If you want a glimpse into Obama's future, all you need to do is look at California.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>LOL , today 's the day , California !
Today 's the day your state has to issue IOUs because you all could n't bother electing people with any common sense .
You could n't elect people who even knew how to add and subtract , LOL !
What a bunch of freaking morons you all are .
You got the big-ass nanny welfare state you wanted , and now you ca n't afford it !
LOL , just LOL !
Hey fellow Americans , take note .
If you want a glimpse into Obama 's future , all you need to do is look at California .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>LOL, today's the day, California!
Today's the day your state has to issue IOUs because you all couldn't bother electing people with any common sense.
You couldn't elect people who even knew how to add and subtract, LOL!
What a bunch of freaking morons you all are.
You got the big-ass nanny welfare state you wanted, and now you can't afford it!
LOL, just LOL!
Hey fellow Americans, take note.
If you want a glimpse into Obama's future, all you need to do is look at California.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28548125</id>
	<title>Nutrition analysis</title>
	<author>FooAtWFU</author>
	<datestamp>1246481340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>The actual labels you'll see is "This unit not labelled for individual retail sale", meaning that it doesn't have the nutrition facts on the individual packets, and probably runs afoul of some regulatory agency (FDA) if you try to sell it by itself. <p>
And what's so "unscrupulous" about splitting up a multi-pack? That's half of what retailers are there for: so you don't have to order things by the pallet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The actual labels you 'll see is " This unit not labelled for individual retail sale " , meaning that it does n't have the nutrition facts on the individual packets , and probably runs afoul of some regulatory agency ( FDA ) if you try to sell it by itself .
And what 's so " unscrupulous " about splitting up a multi-pack ?
That 's half of what retailers are there for : so you do n't have to order things by the pallet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The actual labels you'll see is "This unit not labelled for individual retail sale", meaning that it doesn't have the nutrition facts on the individual packets, and probably runs afoul of some regulatory agency (FDA) if you try to sell it by itself.
And what's so "unscrupulous" about splitting up a multi-pack?
That's half of what retailers are there for: so you don't have to order things by the pallet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540669</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540907</id>
	<title>Steam</title>
	<author>PleaseFearMe</author>
	<datestamp>1246455420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Steam for CounterStrike and Half-Life could have it all worked out.  It's convenient because you can play on any computer without a CD, while you can't sell the game because it is tied to your Steam account.  I think the CD key can be tied to only one Steam account.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Steam for CounterStrike and Half-Life could have it all worked out .
It 's convenient because you can play on any computer without a CD , while you ca n't sell the game because it is tied to your Steam account .
I think the CD key can be tied to only one Steam account .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Steam for CounterStrike and Half-Life could have it all worked out.
It's convenient because you can play on any computer without a CD, while you can't sell the game because it is tied to your Steam account.
I think the CD key can be tied to only one Steam account.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540941</id>
	<title>Re:Used game sales do not hurt the game industry!</title>
	<author>El\_Muerte\_TDS</author>
	<datestamp>1246455720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Of course someone is going to complain about my analogies.</p></div><p>Of course, neither McDolands nor Burger King are cars.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course someone is going to complain about my analogies.Of course , neither McDolands nor Burger King are cars .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course someone is going to complain about my analogies.Of course, neither McDolands nor Burger King are cars.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540591</id>
	<title>Re:The ability to resell add value to new games...</title>
	<author>Dutch Gun</author>
	<datestamp>1246452300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You don't have to imagine.  Plenty of people lease cars, knowing they can't re-sell them - technically, they don't really even 'own' the car, all for a reduced price.  Other people like me would never lease a car, though.  We prefer to own the thing outright.</p><p>Disclaimer: I'm a game developer working on MMOs, so used games aren't exactly a threat to our business at the moment, since you're buying an on-line account which you really can't sell - the client software is sort of incidental.  However, even when I was working on single-player games, I still felt the same way.  Which is:</p><p>To hell with publishers who feel they don't have to earn their customers' money just like every other business on the planet.  The game development industry is big and booming, but it's also incredibly cut-throat and highly competitive, often with very slim margins and high risk.  Tough nuts - we finally made it (as an industry) to the big time, and now they're complaining that their margins aren't as big as they'd like it to be.</p><p>Guess what - if there's a thriving used game market which sells used copies of your game for just a few bucks less than the retail price, maybe it's an indicator that your prices are a bit on the steep side, especially many months after its initial release.  How about you drop your prices to remain competitive?  Or release additional content to encourage new sales, perhaps?</p><p>I can't stand it when people whine about the reality of the marketplace like that.  It reminds me of another entertainment industry that's become universally loathed because of their refusal to adapt to new marketplace realities, and instead use the force of law to bully and intimidate their customers.  I hope to God my industry doesn't go in that direction.  At least we seem to be seeing a backing off of those insane and intrusive DRM schemes (which most developers I know don't like either).</p><p>
&nbsp;</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You do n't have to imagine .
Plenty of people lease cars , knowing they ca n't re-sell them - technically , they do n't really even 'own ' the car , all for a reduced price .
Other people like me would never lease a car , though .
We prefer to own the thing outright.Disclaimer : I 'm a game developer working on MMOs , so used games are n't exactly a threat to our business at the moment , since you 're buying an on-line account which you really ca n't sell - the client software is sort of incidental .
However , even when I was working on single-player games , I still felt the same way .
Which is : To hell with publishers who feel they do n't have to earn their customers ' money just like every other business on the planet .
The game development industry is big and booming , but it 's also incredibly cut-throat and highly competitive , often with very slim margins and high risk .
Tough nuts - we finally made it ( as an industry ) to the big time , and now they 're complaining that their margins are n't as big as they 'd like it to be.Guess what - if there 's a thriving used game market which sells used copies of your game for just a few bucks less than the retail price , maybe it 's an indicator that your prices are a bit on the steep side , especially many months after its initial release .
How about you drop your prices to remain competitive ?
Or release additional content to encourage new sales , perhaps ? I ca n't stand it when people whine about the reality of the marketplace like that .
It reminds me of another entertainment industry that 's become universally loathed because of their refusal to adapt to new marketplace realities , and instead use the force of law to bully and intimidate their customers .
I hope to God my industry does n't go in that direction .
At least we seem to be seeing a backing off of those insane and intrusive DRM schemes ( which most developers I know do n't like either ) .
 </tokentext>
<sentencetext>You don't have to imagine.
Plenty of people lease cars, knowing they can't re-sell them - technically, they don't really even 'own' the car, all for a reduced price.
Other people like me would never lease a car, though.
We prefer to own the thing outright.Disclaimer: I'm a game developer working on MMOs, so used games aren't exactly a threat to our business at the moment, since you're buying an on-line account which you really can't sell - the client software is sort of incidental.
However, even when I was working on single-player games, I still felt the same way.
Which is:To hell with publishers who feel they don't have to earn their customers' money just like every other business on the planet.
The game development industry is big and booming, but it's also incredibly cut-throat and highly competitive, often with very slim margins and high risk.
Tough nuts - we finally made it (as an industry) to the big time, and now they're complaining that their margins aren't as big as they'd like it to be.Guess what - if there's a thriving used game market which sells used copies of your game for just a few bucks less than the retail price, maybe it's an indicator that your prices are a bit on the steep side, especially many months after its initial release.
How about you drop your prices to remain competitive?
Or release additional content to encourage new sales, perhaps?I can't stand it when people whine about the reality of the marketplace like that.
It reminds me of another entertainment industry that's become universally loathed because of their refusal to adapt to new marketplace realities, and instead use the force of law to bully and intimidate their customers.
I hope to God my industry doesn't go in that direction.
At least we seem to be seeing a backing off of those insane and intrusive DRM schemes (which most developers I know don't like either).
 </sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540421</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540681</id>
	<title>Used game sales do not hurt the game industry!</title>
	<author>Anita Coney</author>
	<datestamp>1246453500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Used games do not hurt or harm the game industry.  Why?  Because the consumer has a first-sale right to sell the game and the game industry has no right to financially gain from that secondary (or tertiary, etc) sale.</p><p>So when some third party profits, and you have no rights to the profits, it necessary follows that <i>you were not harmed</i>.</p><p>Under the game industry's logic, because my fellow employees are being paid by my employer, I'm somehow losing out on that money, because for some bizarre reason, that money should be going to me.</p><p>Or under the same asinine logic, McDonald's deserves a cut from the local Burger King's profits because it's making money that, for some bizarre reason, McDonald's thinks it deserves, even thought it has absolutely no right whatsoever to those profits.</p><p>Of course someone is going to complain about my analogies.  That the game industry produced the game so therefore it has a right over the game.  In my first example I didn't do my coworkers' duties, so therefore I have no right to their pay.  And McDonalds didn't serve the customers who went to Burger King so therefore they have no right to those profits.</p><p>But you're missing the point.  It is completely irrelevant that a particular gaming company originally produced the game.  The main issue is that once it sells a copy, <i>It no longer has any resale rights to <strong>that</strong> copy</i>.  I'll say it again, it has no right to any resale money in the same way that I have no right to my coworkers pay or that McDonalds has no right to Burger King's profits.  None.  Nada.  Zip.</p><p>The gaming industry certainly wants profits it is not entitled to.  But that is not harm.  That's jealously and blind greed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Used games do not hurt or harm the game industry .
Why ? Because the consumer has a first-sale right to sell the game and the game industry has no right to financially gain from that secondary ( or tertiary , etc ) sale.So when some third party profits , and you have no rights to the profits , it necessary follows that you were not harmed.Under the game industry 's logic , because my fellow employees are being paid by my employer , I 'm somehow losing out on that money , because for some bizarre reason , that money should be going to me.Or under the same asinine logic , McDonald 's deserves a cut from the local Burger King 's profits because it 's making money that , for some bizarre reason , McDonald 's thinks it deserves , even thought it has absolutely no right whatsoever to those profits.Of course someone is going to complain about my analogies .
That the game industry produced the game so therefore it has a right over the game .
In my first example I did n't do my coworkers ' duties , so therefore I have no right to their pay .
And McDonalds did n't serve the customers who went to Burger King so therefore they have no right to those profits.But you 're missing the point .
It is completely irrelevant that a particular gaming company originally produced the game .
The main issue is that once it sells a copy , It no longer has any resale rights to that copy .
I 'll say it again , it has no right to any resale money in the same way that I have no right to my coworkers pay or that McDonalds has no right to Burger King 's profits .
None. Nada .
Zip.The gaming industry certainly wants profits it is not entitled to .
But that is not harm .
That 's jealously and blind greed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Used games do not hurt or harm the game industry.
Why?  Because the consumer has a first-sale right to sell the game and the game industry has no right to financially gain from that secondary (or tertiary, etc) sale.So when some third party profits, and you have no rights to the profits, it necessary follows that you were not harmed.Under the game industry's logic, because my fellow employees are being paid by my employer, I'm somehow losing out on that money, because for some bizarre reason, that money should be going to me.Or under the same asinine logic, McDonald's deserves a cut from the local Burger King's profits because it's making money that, for some bizarre reason, McDonald's thinks it deserves, even thought it has absolutely no right whatsoever to those profits.Of course someone is going to complain about my analogies.
That the game industry produced the game so therefore it has a right over the game.
In my first example I didn't do my coworkers' duties, so therefore I have no right to their pay.
And McDonalds didn't serve the customers who went to Burger King so therefore they have no right to those profits.But you're missing the point.
It is completely irrelevant that a particular gaming company originally produced the game.
The main issue is that once it sells a copy, It no longer has any resale rights to that copy.
I'll say it again, it has no right to any resale money in the same way that I have no right to my coworkers pay or that McDonalds has no right to Burger King's profits.
None.  Nada.
Zip.The gaming industry certainly wants profits it is not entitled to.
But that is not harm.
That's jealously and blind greed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541717</id>
	<title>The real problem is that replay value is dead</title>
	<author>uxbn\_kuribo</author>
	<datestamp>1246460460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seriously, if I pay $50 for a game that takes me five hours to complete, I'm not just going to play through it again to unlock some shitty artwork. I want REAL meat and potatoes for my money, and more so if I'm going to keep playing it.

I'm looking at you, The Simpsons Game. Sure, it's a couple years old, but I paid $50 for it when it first came out. The controls made the game nearly unplayable, but hell, the script was funny, so I persisted. I beat the game, and now it's been sitting on a shelf ever since. The point is that unlocking the stupid "cliches" and other assorted crap wasn't enough to make me ever want to play that game again. And this is an increasing attitude with game developers. To charge full price for a game that takes me only a couple of hours to beat, and then add "replay" value by telling me to spend a few more minutes collecting stupid crap so I can see lame sketches of the characters they made. Along with the attitude that it's okay to ship games out with insane bugs (lol Sims 3) as long as you plan on patching it later, game developers are taking their market for granted.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously , if I pay $ 50 for a game that takes me five hours to complete , I 'm not just going to play through it again to unlock some shitty artwork .
I want REAL meat and potatoes for my money , and more so if I 'm going to keep playing it .
I 'm looking at you , The Simpsons Game .
Sure , it 's a couple years old , but I paid $ 50 for it when it first came out .
The controls made the game nearly unplayable , but hell , the script was funny , so I persisted .
I beat the game , and now it 's been sitting on a shelf ever since .
The point is that unlocking the stupid " cliches " and other assorted crap was n't enough to make me ever want to play that game again .
And this is an increasing attitude with game developers .
To charge full price for a game that takes me only a couple of hours to beat , and then add " replay " value by telling me to spend a few more minutes collecting stupid crap so I can see lame sketches of the characters they made .
Along with the attitude that it 's okay to ship games out with insane bugs ( lol Sims 3 ) as long as you plan on patching it later , game developers are taking their market for granted .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously, if I pay $50 for a game that takes me five hours to complete, I'm not just going to play through it again to unlock some shitty artwork.
I want REAL meat and potatoes for my money, and more so if I'm going to keep playing it.
I'm looking at you, The Simpsons Game.
Sure, it's a couple years old, but I paid $50 for it when it first came out.
The controls made the game nearly unplayable, but hell, the script was funny, so I persisted.
I beat the game, and now it's been sitting on a shelf ever since.
The point is that unlocking the stupid "cliches" and other assorted crap wasn't enough to make me ever want to play that game again.
And this is an increasing attitude with game developers.
To charge full price for a game that takes me only a couple of hours to beat, and then add "replay" value by telling me to spend a few more minutes collecting stupid crap so I can see lame sketches of the characters they made.
Along with the attitude that it's okay to ship games out with insane bugs (lol Sims 3) as long as you plan on patching it later, game developers are taking their market for granted.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28542371</id>
	<title>Crushing the Used Sports Game Market</title>
	<author>pwileyii</author>
	<datestamp>1246463280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I had a thought a few weeks back when purchasing a copy of "MLB: The Show '08" on the used market. A friend of mine has the newest verison '09 and the differences, while there, are very minor. I stated that there was no way I would purchase the newest version for full price ($60) when I had the previous version because all that I would be getting is a few features changes and a roster update. That is when the idea hit me of simply allowing users to purchase updates for their sports games (as with most application software). For example, charge them $30 instead of $60 if they own a version from one or two years back for a new copy of the current version. In order the get the $30 off, you would have to "trade in" the old game to prevent several people using the game to get the discount. This model, which is really only applicable to sports games that have yearly releases, would encourage people to get constant updates and would, in my opinion, provide the game makers with additional revenue and make the users more happy because they don't have to pay full price for what seems to be a minor update.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I had a thought a few weeks back when purchasing a copy of " MLB : The Show '08 " on the used market .
A friend of mine has the newest verison '09 and the differences , while there , are very minor .
I stated that there was no way I would purchase the newest version for full price ( $ 60 ) when I had the previous version because all that I would be getting is a few features changes and a roster update .
That is when the idea hit me of simply allowing users to purchase updates for their sports games ( as with most application software ) .
For example , charge them $ 30 instead of $ 60 if they own a version from one or two years back for a new copy of the current version .
In order the get the $ 30 off , you would have to " trade in " the old game to prevent several people using the game to get the discount .
This model , which is really only applicable to sports games that have yearly releases , would encourage people to get constant updates and would , in my opinion , provide the game makers with additional revenue and make the users more happy because they do n't have to pay full price for what seems to be a minor update .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I had a thought a few weeks back when purchasing a copy of "MLB: The Show '08" on the used market.
A friend of mine has the newest verison '09 and the differences, while there, are very minor.
I stated that there was no way I would purchase the newest version for full price ($60) when I had the previous version because all that I would be getting is a few features changes and a roster update.
That is when the idea hit me of simply allowing users to purchase updates for their sports games (as with most application software).
For example, charge them $30 instead of $60 if they own a version from one or two years back for a new copy of the current version.
In order the get the $30 off, you would have to "trade in" the old game to prevent several people using the game to get the discount.
This model, which is really only applicable to sports games that have yearly releases, would encourage people to get constant updates and would, in my opinion, provide the game makers with additional revenue and make the users more happy because they don't have to pay full price for what seems to be a minor update.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540745</id>
	<title>second hand cars will be forbidden next</title>
	<author>Atreide</author>
	<datestamp>1246454160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>buying a car second hand steals money to car manufacturers</p><p>let's forbid that shamefull behaviour and save economy</p><p>really, some companies do not deserve our money...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>buying a car second hand steals money to car manufacturerslet 's forbid that shamefull behaviour and save economyreally , some companies do not deserve our money.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>buying a car second hand steals money to car manufacturerslet's forbid that shamefull behaviour and save economyreally, some companies do not deserve our money...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541753</id>
	<title>I only buy used because you refuse to sell it!</title>
	<author>PingSpike</author>
	<datestamp>1246460640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Here's what really pisses me off: Half the games I buy used I don't buy used by choice. I buy them used because the publisher has flat out abandoned them. If I want to buy an old PC game that isn't starcraft then I'm not going to find it on store shelves or at gogamer.com. They are DONE with that game and can't be bothered to sell it to me even when I want to buy it. So I have to go hunting for a scratched up CD with perhaps no manual.</p><p>So now they're bitching and moaning that some guy (or gamestop) is "stealing" their sales of new media (in actuality he is simply selling it at a pricepoint they are unwilling too) but they leave money on the table by refusing to keep their old titles available for sale. And now they want to cripple non-new games or flat out remove the ability for me to even buy them? Well, to that I say: Fuck you, sir.</p><p>Yes, I'm aware of GOG but their list of titles his hardly exhaustive and I have a gutteral feeling there isn't a lot of overlap between publishers making their stuff available DRM free on GOG and the publishers that are complaining about Joe Xbox gamer being able to resell Halo clone of the week after beating it in 10 hours.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's what really pisses me off : Half the games I buy used I do n't buy used by choice .
I buy them used because the publisher has flat out abandoned them .
If I want to buy an old PC game that is n't starcraft then I 'm not going to find it on store shelves or at gogamer.com .
They are DONE with that game and ca n't be bothered to sell it to me even when I want to buy it .
So I have to go hunting for a scratched up CD with perhaps no manual.So now they 're bitching and moaning that some guy ( or gamestop ) is " stealing " their sales of new media ( in actuality he is simply selling it at a pricepoint they are unwilling too ) but they leave money on the table by refusing to keep their old titles available for sale .
And now they want to cripple non-new games or flat out remove the ability for me to even buy them ?
Well , to that I say : Fuck you , sir.Yes , I 'm aware of GOG but their list of titles his hardly exhaustive and I have a gutteral feeling there is n't a lot of overlap between publishers making their stuff available DRM free on GOG and the publishers that are complaining about Joe Xbox gamer being able to resell Halo clone of the week after beating it in 10 hours .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's what really pisses me off: Half the games I buy used I don't buy used by choice.
I buy them used because the publisher has flat out abandoned them.
If I want to buy an old PC game that isn't starcraft then I'm not going to find it on store shelves or at gogamer.com.
They are DONE with that game and can't be bothered to sell it to me even when I want to buy it.
So I have to go hunting for a scratched up CD with perhaps no manual.So now they're bitching and moaning that some guy (or gamestop) is "stealing" their sales of new media (in actuality he is simply selling it at a pricepoint they are unwilling too) but they leave money on the table by refusing to keep their old titles available for sale.
And now they want to cripple non-new games or flat out remove the ability for me to even buy them?
Well, to that I say: Fuck you, sir.Yes, I'm aware of GOG but their list of titles his hardly exhaustive and I have a gutteral feeling there isn't a lot of overlap between publishers making their stuff available DRM free on GOG and the publishers that are complaining about Joe Xbox gamer being able to resell Halo clone of the week after beating it in 10 hours.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540307</id>
	<title>Game companies have a way to counter this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246448700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Make shitty games. That way, they have no resale value whatsoever. Or better, call them something-forever and don't even sell them in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Make shitty games .
That way , they have no resale value whatsoever .
Or better , call them something-forever and do n't even sell them in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make shitty games.
That way, they have no resale value whatsoever.
Or better, call them something-forever and don't even sell them in the first place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28544573</id>
	<title>Swaptree</title>
	<author>frankgod</author>
	<datestamp>1246470540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Has anyone else discovered <a href="http://www.swaptree.com/" title="swaptree.com" rel="nofollow">this site</a> [swaptree.com]?

It's great, brings back memories of trading games with my friends growing up. Of course I hold on to the best games. But this is a good way to try out second-tier games that look interesting enough. I don't go through games the way I used to, so for me this is a much better deal than gamefly or other rental.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Has anyone else discovered this site [ swaptree.com ] ?
It 's great , brings back memories of trading games with my friends growing up .
Of course I hold on to the best games .
But this is a good way to try out second-tier games that look interesting enough .
I do n't go through games the way I used to , so for me this is a much better deal than gamefly or other rental .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has anyone else discovered this site [swaptree.com]?
It's great, brings back memories of trading games with my friends growing up.
Of course I hold on to the best games.
But this is a good way to try out second-tier games that look interesting enough.
I don't go through games the way I used to, so for me this is a much better deal than gamefly or other rental.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540721</id>
	<title>Re:So should book publishers try to prevent tradin</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1246453920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Especially school books. Consider how many students sell their kickass expensive books every year after passing the course!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Especially school books .
Consider how many students sell their kickass expensive books every year after passing the course !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Especially school books.
Consider how many students sell their kickass expensive books every year after passing the course!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540273</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540273</id>
	<title>So should book publishers try to prevent trading?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246448280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would suppose that book publishers would love to prevent the reuse of their products too.  The number of books passed on to others is most likely much much higher.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would suppose that book publishers would love to prevent the reuse of their products too .
The number of books passed on to others is most likely much much higher .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would suppose that book publishers would love to prevent the reuse of their products too.
The number of books passed on to others is most likely much much higher.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540473</id>
	<title>The trend will be to direct-download games.</title>
	<author>Carniphage</author>
	<datestamp>1246450920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Console manufacturers and game publishers are going to move towards games which are entirely downloaded.</p><p>Directly downloaded games are impossible to re-sell. So will block this "problem"</p><p>Moreover, the revenue from downloaded games is not shared by resellers and retailers. Retailers can take up to 50\% of the sale price. Just to sell a box.</p><p>When publishers, originate the game, develop it, promote it and take all the risks- you can see why they resent the used game market and the burden of "boxed-goods" retailers.</p><p>C.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Console manufacturers and game publishers are going to move towards games which are entirely downloaded.Directly downloaded games are impossible to re-sell .
So will block this " problem " Moreover , the revenue from downloaded games is not shared by resellers and retailers .
Retailers can take up to 50 \ % of the sale price .
Just to sell a box.When publishers , originate the game , develop it , promote it and take all the risks- you can see why they resent the used game market and the burden of " boxed-goods " retailers.C .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Console manufacturers and game publishers are going to move towards games which are entirely downloaded.Directly downloaded games are impossible to re-sell.
So will block this "problem"Moreover, the revenue from downloaded games is not shared by resellers and retailers.
Retailers can take up to 50\% of the sale price.
Just to sell a box.When publishers, originate the game, develop it, promote it and take all the risks- you can see why they resent the used game market and the burden of "boxed-goods" retailers.C.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541031</id>
	<title>Re:So should book publishers try to prevent tradin</title>
	<author>paganizer</author>
	<datestamp>1246456380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have some insight on this.<br>I ran a Computer store from '92 to '95. I started doing a "buy, sell or trade" thing on computer games in 94, I immediately noticed a big jump in new game sales, and the reason was told to me by hundreds of customers, being able to sell or trade the game in when they were done was a gigantic incentive to buy the games in the first place.<br>I also tried renting them out, BTW; that helped sales a little, but only because every 3rd or 4th customer ended up buying the game through late fees.<br>Up until Microsoft's attempt to kill or seriously injure the PC gaming industry came out, the "games for windows" program, I would have said that PC game reselling was a 100\% good thing for the gaming industry; I imagine it would be impossible with the state of EULA's to do it legally, these days.<br>Blatant Plug: www.gotthefire.net/dnn. Go. Be Round.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have some insight on this.I ran a Computer store from '92 to '95 .
I started doing a " buy , sell or trade " thing on computer games in 94 , I immediately noticed a big jump in new game sales , and the reason was told to me by hundreds of customers , being able to sell or trade the game in when they were done was a gigantic incentive to buy the games in the first place.I also tried renting them out , BTW ; that helped sales a little , but only because every 3rd or 4th customer ended up buying the game through late fees.Up until Microsoft 's attempt to kill or seriously injure the PC gaming industry came out , the " games for windows " program , I would have said that PC game reselling was a 100 \ % good thing for the gaming industry ; I imagine it would be impossible with the state of EULA 's to do it legally , these days.Blatant Plug : www.gotthefire.net/dnn .
Go. Be Round .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have some insight on this.I ran a Computer store from '92 to '95.
I started doing a "buy, sell or trade" thing on computer games in 94, I immediately noticed a big jump in new game sales, and the reason was told to me by hundreds of customers, being able to sell or trade the game in when they were done was a gigantic incentive to buy the games in the first place.I also tried renting them out, BTW; that helped sales a little, but only because every 3rd or 4th customer ended up buying the game through late fees.Up until Microsoft's attempt to kill or seriously injure the PC gaming industry came out, the "games for windows" program, I would have said that PC game reselling was a 100\% good thing for the gaming industry; I imagine it would be impossible with the state of EULA's to do it legally, these days.Blatant Plug: www.gotthefire.net/dnn.
Go. Be Round.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540273</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28549389</id>
	<title>No debate please.</title>
	<author>w0mprat</author>
	<datestamp>1246441860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Used goods in any market, does not hurt sales of new goods. Period. The ability to resell *anything* adds value. No member of any industry has the right to stiffle the used sales market, unless they have a death wish. Used sales are a win-win for the consumer and the producer. The ability to sell something you bought new for about half the price you paid for it, is like getting a 50\% discount, but the original retail outlet gets 100\% of the money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Used goods in any market , does not hurt sales of new goods .
Period. The ability to resell * anything * adds value .
No member of any industry has the right to stiffle the used sales market , unless they have a death wish .
Used sales are a win-win for the consumer and the producer .
The ability to sell something you bought new for about half the price you paid for it , is like getting a 50 \ % discount , but the original retail outlet gets 100 \ % of the money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Used goods in any market, does not hurt sales of new goods.
Period. The ability to resell *anything* adds value.
No member of any industry has the right to stiffle the used sales market, unless they have a death wish.
Used sales are a win-win for the consumer and the producer.
The ability to sell something you bought new for about half the price you paid for it, is like getting a 50\% discount, but the original retail outlet gets 100\% of the money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28545483</id>
	<title>Re:Game companies have a way to counter this</title>
	<author>bunuel</author>
	<datestamp>1246473240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree.  There are some games that I won't sell (the Zelda games, the Ratchet and Clank games, etc.) because they're really fun to replay once every two years or so.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree .
There are some games that I wo n't sell ( the Zelda games , the Ratchet and Clank games , etc .
) because they 're really fun to replay once every two years or so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree.
There are some games that I won't sell (the Zelda games, the Ratchet and Clank games, etc.
) because they're really fun to replay once every two years or so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540613</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540613</id>
	<title>Re:Game companies have a way to counter this</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1246452480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Quite the opposite would work: Make games with great replay value so I do not <i>want</i> to sell them.</p><p>The "story" of a contemporary game takes you about 10 hours, tops. After a few skirmish turns you're fed up with that too. And then? Off to the used market.</p><p>Can you imagine parting with your copy of CivII? Or Alpha Centauri? I can't. Yeah, I don't really play them THAT often anymore (hey, they're like 15 year old now), but still... I just might pick them up again, I couldn't sell them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Quite the opposite would work : Make games with great replay value so I do not want to sell them.The " story " of a contemporary game takes you about 10 hours , tops .
After a few skirmish turns you 're fed up with that too .
And then ?
Off to the used market.Can you imagine parting with your copy of CivII ?
Or Alpha Centauri ?
I ca n't .
Yeah , I do n't really play them THAT often anymore ( hey , they 're like 15 year old now ) , but still... I just might pick them up again , I could n't sell them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quite the opposite would work: Make games with great replay value so I do not want to sell them.The "story" of a contemporary game takes you about 10 hours, tops.
After a few skirmish turns you're fed up with that too.
And then?
Off to the used market.Can you imagine parting with your copy of CivII?
Or Alpha Centauri?
I can't.
Yeah, I don't really play them THAT often anymore (hey, they're like 15 year old now), but still... I just might pick them up again, I couldn't sell them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540307</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28543327</id>
	<title>Do not buy broken games</title>
	<author>HalAtWork</author>
	<datestamp>1246467000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Those one-time bonus cards are an insult to me as a gamer, and I don't use those codes or buy any of the DLC as I believe a game should be self-contained and not require anything extra to be enjoyed, otherwise IT IS A BROKEN GAME.<br> <br>I keep all of the games I buy and never sell them back, but this really pisses me off.  I'm a collector (maybe not as rabid as some, I only care about the games I like and not about collecting every last rare gem), and I expect my games to work in the future as is.<br> <br>Systems can break down, networks can be shut down.  I don't want to go back and play something where there are big pieces missing for one reason or another.  I'm not paying some company to hold parts of my game hostage.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Those one-time bonus cards are an insult to me as a gamer , and I do n't use those codes or buy any of the DLC as I believe a game should be self-contained and not require anything extra to be enjoyed , otherwise IT IS A BROKEN GAME .
I keep all of the games I buy and never sell them back , but this really pisses me off .
I 'm a collector ( maybe not as rabid as some , I only care about the games I like and not about collecting every last rare gem ) , and I expect my games to work in the future as is .
Systems can break down , networks can be shut down .
I do n't want to go back and play something where there are big pieces missing for one reason or another .
I 'm not paying some company to hold parts of my game hostage .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those one-time bonus cards are an insult to me as a gamer, and I don't use those codes or buy any of the DLC as I believe a game should be self-contained and not require anything extra to be enjoyed, otherwise IT IS A BROKEN GAME.
I keep all of the games I buy and never sell them back, but this really pisses me off.
I'm a collector (maybe not as rabid as some, I only care about the games I like and not about collecting every last rare gem), and I expect my games to work in the future as is.
Systems can break down, networks can be shut down.
I don't want to go back and play something where there are big pieces missing for one reason or another.
I'm not paying some company to hold parts of my game hostage.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540525</id>
	<title>Re:So essentially he is saying...</title>
	<author>eldavojohn</author>
	<datestamp>1246451700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Thank you for restating how supply and demand curves work.</p></div><p>It's worse than that, what he's saying is selective economics.  You want to see how selective economics works?  I will now prove that used game sales increase the sales of games at retail prices:  Everyone today knows they can resell a $60 PS3 game for $15 to Gamestop.  So when they are figuring out the price, they are assuming that the game retains a resale value of $15--much like a person shopping for a car takes note of its blue book value.  So you can pretty much look at it like you're putting down a $15 deposit on the game.  Everyone assumes that they are going to play the game for a week and get tired of it.  Fortunately, there's a few games that are really really good so that the player either keeps playing them or grows attached to the game in a special way.  Now, people are buying more copies of the game because the in-the-end cost is $45, not $60.  And a few people are holding on to the game instead of trading it back in.  So in a world without used game sales, you would have made less sales.  On top of that, if you make a really great game and most people keep it then there are a bunch of people buying your game figuring they will resell it and don't<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and you make more cash.  I still have my copy of <i>Ocarina of Time</i> for N64 in my room even though I don't play it.  <br> <br>

See how anyone can use selective economics to meet their needs?  By the way, all economics lessons are selective.  Whether they try to be or not.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you for restating how supply and demand curves work.It 's worse than that , what he 's saying is selective economics .
You want to see how selective economics works ?
I will now prove that used game sales increase the sales of games at retail prices : Everyone today knows they can resell a $ 60 PS3 game for $ 15 to Gamestop .
So when they are figuring out the price , they are assuming that the game retains a resale value of $ 15--much like a person shopping for a car takes note of its blue book value .
So you can pretty much look at it like you 're putting down a $ 15 deposit on the game .
Everyone assumes that they are going to play the game for a week and get tired of it .
Fortunately , there 's a few games that are really really good so that the player either keeps playing them or grows attached to the game in a special way .
Now , people are buying more copies of the game because the in-the-end cost is $ 45 , not $ 60 .
And a few people are holding on to the game instead of trading it back in .
So in a world without used game sales , you would have made less sales .
On top of that , if you make a really great game and most people keep it then there are a bunch of people buying your game figuring they will resell it and do n't ... and you make more cash .
I still have my copy of Ocarina of Time for N64 in my room even though I do n't play it .
See how anyone can use selective economics to meet their needs ?
By the way , all economics lessons are selective .
Whether they try to be or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you for restating how supply and demand curves work.It's worse than that, what he's saying is selective economics.
You want to see how selective economics works?
I will now prove that used game sales increase the sales of games at retail prices:  Everyone today knows they can resell a $60 PS3 game for $15 to Gamestop.
So when they are figuring out the price, they are assuming that the game retains a resale value of $15--much like a person shopping for a car takes note of its blue book value.
So you can pretty much look at it like you're putting down a $15 deposit on the game.
Everyone assumes that they are going to play the game for a week and get tired of it.
Fortunately, there's a few games that are really really good so that the player either keeps playing them or grows attached to the game in a special way.
Now, people are buying more copies of the game because the in-the-end cost is $45, not $60.
And a few people are holding on to the game instead of trading it back in.
So in a world without used game sales, you would have made less sales.
On top of that, if you make a really great game and most people keep it then there are a bunch of people buying your game figuring they will resell it and don't ... and you make more cash.
I still have my copy of Ocarina of Time for N64 in my room even though I don't play it.
See how anyone can use selective economics to meet their needs?
By the way, all economics lessons are selective.
Whether they try to be or not.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28549257</id>
	<title>Re:They can't stand free trade?</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246441560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>they implement DRM in their games so that they don't lose money.</i></p><p>If they implement DRM they've lost my money.</p><p><i>Well just as you have the freedom to do whatever you want with your purchased items, publishers have the freedom to sell their games in any format they choose.</i></p><p>And I have the freedom to tell them to fuck off and spend my money elsewhere.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>they implement DRM in their games so that they do n't lose money.If they implement DRM they 've lost my money.Well just as you have the freedom to do whatever you want with your purchased items , publishers have the freedom to sell their games in any format they choose.And I have the freedom to tell them to fuck off and spend my money elsewhere .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they implement DRM in their games so that they don't lose money.If they implement DRM they've lost my money.Well just as you have the freedom to do whatever you want with your purchased items, publishers have the freedom to sell their games in any format they choose.And I have the freedom to tell them to fuck off and spend my money elsewhere.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540863</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540481</id>
	<title>Used games help new game sales</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246450980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1) The person who bought the game new gets some money back when he sells it used, thus giving him more money to go buy another new game.</p><p>2) People are more likely to buy a new game if they know they can sell it used when they get tired of it. If they know they will be stuck with it, they will be less likely to buy. In the aggregate, lower new prices would be necessary if there were no resales. (This might end up happening if all the draconian DRM makes the "purchase" into a true rental because the game can't be transferred and might fail to "activate" in the future. Such games would be worth less.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 ) The person who bought the game new gets some money back when he sells it used , thus giving him more money to go buy another new game.2 ) People are more likely to buy a new game if they know they can sell it used when they get tired of it .
If they know they will be stuck with it , they will be less likely to buy .
In the aggregate , lower new prices would be necessary if there were no resales .
( This might end up happening if all the draconian DRM makes the " purchase " into a true rental because the game ca n't be transferred and might fail to " activate " in the future .
Such games would be worth less .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1) The person who bought the game new gets some money back when he sells it used, thus giving him more money to go buy another new game.2) People are more likely to buy a new game if they know they can sell it used when they get tired of it.
If they know they will be stuck with it, they will be less likely to buy.
In the aggregate, lower new prices would be necessary if there were no resales.
(This might end up happening if all the draconian DRM makes the "purchase" into a true rental because the game can't be transferred and might fail to "activate" in the future.
Such games would be worth less.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28545255</id>
	<title>Re:Seriously...</title>
	<author>tiananmen tank man</author>
	<datestamp>1246472580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"not for (individual) resale" is just a suggestion, not the law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" not for ( individual ) resale " is just a suggestion , not the law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"not for (individual) resale" is just a suggestion, not the law.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540669</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28542093</id>
	<title>Re:They can't stand free trade?</title>
	<author>neomunk</author>
	<datestamp>1246462140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey kid, check out how well DRM does it's job and then come back and let us know new job you want to grow up and make money doing some day.</p><p>And seriously now, just because YOU hope to make money doing something some day none of us are obligated to change our lives in any way to accommodate you.  Come to think of it, with the "okay, you exercised your rights, now face my wrath!" attitude you ARE going into the right profession...  Look into record company exec and movie producer too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey kid , check out how well DRM does it 's job and then come back and let us know new job you want to grow up and make money doing some day.And seriously now , just because YOU hope to make money doing something some day none of us are obligated to change our lives in any way to accommodate you .
Come to think of it , with the " okay , you exercised your rights , now face my wrath !
" attitude you ARE going into the right profession... Look into record company exec and movie producer too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey kid, check out how well DRM does it's job and then come back and let us know new job you want to grow up and make money doing some day.And seriously now, just because YOU hope to make money doing something some day none of us are obligated to change our lives in any way to accommodate you.
Come to think of it, with the "okay, you exercised your rights, now face my wrath!
" attitude you ARE going into the right profession...  Look into record company exec and movie producer too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540863</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541607</id>
	<title>Re:Used game sales do not hurt the game industry!</title>
	<author>LWATCDR</author>
	<datestamp>1246459680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Used game sales do hurt the game industry. If people didn't buy and sell used games they would make more money.  The thing is that is just too bad. Yes people have the right to resell the game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Used game sales do hurt the game industry .
If people did n't buy and sell used games they would make more money .
The thing is that is just too bad .
Yes people have the right to resell the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Used game sales do hurt the game industry.
If people didn't buy and sell used games they would make more money.
The thing is that is just too bad.
Yes people have the right to resell the game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540681</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541021</id>
	<title>A publisher's perspective</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1246456380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Here's what a games publisher sees when he reads that article:

"yada yada yada yada yada yada 100 million copies yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada."</htmltext>
<tokenext>Here 's what a games publisher sees when he reads that article : " yada yada yada yada yada yada 100 million copies yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Here's what a games publisher sees when he reads that article:

"yada yada yada yada yada yada 100 million copies yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28545699</id>
	<title>They must lower the price to compete...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246473900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To all the publishers, why should I buy a digital copy of a ten-year-old game for $20 when I can get a used copy for $5? I would also like to remind you that the used copy is a physical one that cannot be remotely shredded (see Steam).</p><p>I buy ~99\% of my games used because I refuse to pay retail for them and I refuse to fund the development of CD-checking/anti-copying malware.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To all the publishers , why should I buy a digital copy of a ten-year-old game for $ 20 when I can get a used copy for $ 5 ?
I would also like to remind you that the used copy is a physical one that can not be remotely shredded ( see Steam ) .I buy ~ 99 \ % of my games used because I refuse to pay retail for them and I refuse to fund the development of CD-checking/anti-copying malware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To all the publishers, why should I buy a digital copy of a ten-year-old game for $20 when I can get a used copy for $5?
I would also like to remind you that the used copy is a physical one that cannot be remotely shredded (see Steam).I buy ~99\% of my games used because I refuse to pay retail for them and I refuse to fund the development of CD-checking/anti-copying malware.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540863</id>
	<title>Re:They can't stand free trade?</title>
	<author>dontPanik</author>
	<datestamp>1246455180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes and I'm sure the publishers will have just as little of a pain in their conscience when they implement DRM in their games so that they don't lose money.<br>
<br>
What? You won't be so big and mighty after that? Well just as you have the freedom to do whatever you want with your purchased items, publishers have the freedom to sell their games in any format they choose.<br>
<br>
(spoken as a kid who wants to enter the video game industry one day and actually make money)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes and I 'm sure the publishers will have just as little of a pain in their conscience when they implement DRM in their games so that they do n't lose money .
What ? You wo n't be so big and mighty after that ?
Well just as you have the freedom to do whatever you want with your purchased items , publishers have the freedom to sell their games in any format they choose .
( spoken as a kid who wants to enter the video game industry one day and actually make money )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes and I'm sure the publishers will have just as little of a pain in their conscience when they implement DRM in their games so that they don't lose money.
What? You won't be so big and mighty after that?
Well just as you have the freedom to do whatever you want with your purchased items, publishers have the freedom to sell their games in any format they choose.
(spoken as a kid who wants to enter the video game industry one day and actually make money)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540579</id>
	<title>It's not "damage"</title>
	<author>Jafafa Hots</author>
	<datestamp>1246452180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Its reality. Companies are "damaged" about as much by the fact that they don't make money off sales of used games as I am "damaged" by the fact that people aren't paying me royalties for every time they take a shit and thus inadvertently destroy the resale market for MY shit.</p><p>I have a business plan, after all, that depends on the world paying me for my shit.</p><p>In short, when you have the delusional belief that you are owed money for something that nobody else in the world has ever been owed money for nor has anyone ever THOUGHT of being owed money for because its fucking insane, you're going to find your delusions "damaged."</p><p>Barcalounger doesn't get a cut of used chair sales. Del Monte doesn't get a cut of used fruit sales.</p><p>You want a cut? Do what Amazon did - they make money off new books, and then facilitate sales of used books and take a cut. (and of used games too.)</p><p>Game makes want a cut of sales of used games? Fine. Create a marketplace for sales of used games - make it more compelling to use than existing ones, and take a cut. If not, fuck off.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Its reality .
Companies are " damaged " about as much by the fact that they do n't make money off sales of used games as I am " damaged " by the fact that people are n't paying me royalties for every time they take a shit and thus inadvertently destroy the resale market for MY shit.I have a business plan , after all , that depends on the world paying me for my shit.In short , when you have the delusional belief that you are owed money for something that nobody else in the world has ever been owed money for nor has anyone ever THOUGHT of being owed money for because its fucking insane , you 're going to find your delusions " damaged .
" Barcalounger does n't get a cut of used chair sales .
Del Monte does n't get a cut of used fruit sales.You want a cut ?
Do what Amazon did - they make money off new books , and then facilitate sales of used books and take a cut .
( and of used games too .
) Game makes want a cut of sales of used games ?
Fine. Create a marketplace for sales of used games - make it more compelling to use than existing ones , and take a cut .
If not , fuck off .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its reality.
Companies are "damaged" about as much by the fact that they don't make money off sales of used games as I am "damaged" by the fact that people aren't paying me royalties for every time they take a shit and thus inadvertently destroy the resale market for MY shit.I have a business plan, after all, that depends on the world paying me for my shit.In short, when you have the delusional belief that you are owed money for something that nobody else in the world has ever been owed money for nor has anyone ever THOUGHT of being owed money for because its fucking insane, you're going to find your delusions "damaged.
"Barcalounger doesn't get a cut of used chair sales.
Del Monte doesn't get a cut of used fruit sales.You want a cut?
Do what Amazon did - they make money off new books, and then facilitate sales of used books and take a cut.
(and of used games too.
)Game makes want a cut of sales of used games?
Fine. Create a marketplace for sales of used games - make it more compelling to use than existing ones, and take a cut.
If not, fuck off.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540669</id>
	<title>Re:Seriously...</title>
	<author>advocate\_one</author>
	<datestamp>1246453380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Even candy is labelled "no individual re-sell".</p></div></blockquote><p>no, sorry, that only applies to candy and other goods sold in multi-packs and is there to stop unscrupulous retailers from purchasing multi-packs and then splitting them and selling the individual packs at the normal single pack price...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even candy is labelled " no individual re-sell " .no , sorry , that only applies to candy and other goods sold in multi-packs and is there to stop unscrupulous retailers from purchasing multi-packs and then splitting them and selling the individual packs at the normal single pack price.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even candy is labelled "no individual re-sell".no, sorry, that only applies to candy and other goods sold in multi-packs and is there to stop unscrupulous retailers from purchasing multi-packs and then splitting them and selling the individual packs at the normal single pack price...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540381</id>
	<title>Daft</title>
	<author>Chrisq</author>
	<datestamp>1246449720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>They might as well say that competitors games hit their sale so they should have a cut from competitors sales. I can't see any justification for this whatsoever.</htmltext>
<tokenext>They might as well say that competitors games hit their sale so they should have a cut from competitors sales .
I ca n't see any justification for this whatsoever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They might as well say that competitors games hit their sale so they should have a cut from competitors sales.
I can't see any justification for this whatsoever.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540321</id>
	<title>So essentially he is saying...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246448820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>as price drops demand picks up; and purchasers at $20 will not buy at the $50 retail price.  Thank you for restating how supply and demand curves work.</p><p>The real question is:</p><p>Is there a price point between the price of used games and new games that would generate greater profits for game manufacturers than the current pricing model?If there is, then used sales do cut into new ones in the sense that purchaser will wait until the game price drops to a price they are willing to pay if the used game reaches that price prior to publishers lowering the price of new ones.  If the used market captures those sales then it is cutting into new game sales since used games are replacing new game sales.</p><p>Publishers would probably like to price so as to capture as much of the "I must have it on release day" sales as at high a price as possible; then drop prices enough so the incremental demand from the price drop generates higher profits than fewer sales at higher prices.  While falling prices would drive down the value of used games and their attractiveness to stores; publishers run the risk of training buyers to wait a few weeks for the first price drop and losing release day sales and profits.  Given how rapidly used games start to appear after release shows their is a large demand at lower prices (duh); how to tap into that without hurting earlier sales is a difficult question to answer.  It's a tough call; especially given the money it takes to develop a game.</p><p>In the end, however, I think their is more to the story than just $20 used game sales don't hurt the $60 new game sales./P.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>as price drops demand picks up ; and purchasers at $ 20 will not buy at the $ 50 retail price .
Thank you for restating how supply and demand curves work.The real question is : Is there a price point between the price of used games and new games that would generate greater profits for game manufacturers than the current pricing model ? If there is , then used sales do cut into new ones in the sense that purchaser will wait until the game price drops to a price they are willing to pay if the used game reaches that price prior to publishers lowering the price of new ones .
If the used market captures those sales then it is cutting into new game sales since used games are replacing new game sales.Publishers would probably like to price so as to capture as much of the " I must have it on release day " sales as at high a price as possible ; then drop prices enough so the incremental demand from the price drop generates higher profits than fewer sales at higher prices .
While falling prices would drive down the value of used games and their attractiveness to stores ; publishers run the risk of training buyers to wait a few weeks for the first price drop and losing release day sales and profits .
Given how rapidly used games start to appear after release shows their is a large demand at lower prices ( duh ) ; how to tap into that without hurting earlier sales is a difficult question to answer .
It 's a tough call ; especially given the money it takes to develop a game.In the end , however , I think their is more to the story than just $ 20 used game sales do n't hurt the $ 60 new game sales./P .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>as price drops demand picks up; and purchasers at $20 will not buy at the $50 retail price.
Thank you for restating how supply and demand curves work.The real question is:Is there a price point between the price of used games and new games that would generate greater profits for game manufacturers than the current pricing model?If there is, then used sales do cut into new ones in the sense that purchaser will wait until the game price drops to a price they are willing to pay if the used game reaches that price prior to publishers lowering the price of new ones.
If the used market captures those sales then it is cutting into new game sales since used games are replacing new game sales.Publishers would probably like to price so as to capture as much of the "I must have it on release day" sales as at high a price as possible; then drop prices enough so the incremental demand from the price drop generates higher profits than fewer sales at higher prices.
While falling prices would drive down the value of used games and their attractiveness to stores; publishers run the risk of training buyers to wait a few weeks for the first price drop and losing release day sales and profits.
Given how rapidly used games start to appear after release shows their is a large demand at lower prices (duh); how to tap into that without hurting earlier sales is a difficult question to answer.
It's a tough call; especially given the money it takes to develop a game.In the end, however, I think their is more to the story than just $20 used game sales don't hurt the $60 new game sales./P.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28554497</id>
	<title>My current cheapskate move</title>
	<author>dank zappingly</author>
	<datestamp>1246476780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Blockbuster rents games for 10 dollars.  It is a ripoff for whatever time period they give it to you for(like 5 days).  But it is a great deal if you take into account that the restocking fee is an extra 1.50.  You can keep the game for an extra month before they just charge it to your credit card.  I know it sounds crazy, 2 bucks a day for the rental period, and then 5 cents a day for the time you aren't supposed to have it, but that is how it works.  <p> So any game that I can beat in under 35 days, I just rent and save myself 48 bucks or so.  I think Blockbuster has gotten wise to my scheme though, and is trying to counteract it by having extremely limited numbers of any games I would want to rent, but having tons of them for sale.  God forbid they actually rent the games for something proportional to the amount of time you keep it.  They are a terribly run business.  I expect them to go belly up soon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Blockbuster rents games for 10 dollars .
It is a ripoff for whatever time period they give it to you for ( like 5 days ) .
But it is a great deal if you take into account that the restocking fee is an extra 1.50 .
You can keep the game for an extra month before they just charge it to your credit card .
I know it sounds crazy , 2 bucks a day for the rental period , and then 5 cents a day for the time you are n't supposed to have it , but that is how it works .
So any game that I can beat in under 35 days , I just rent and save myself 48 bucks or so .
I think Blockbuster has gotten wise to my scheme though , and is trying to counteract it by having extremely limited numbers of any games I would want to rent , but having tons of them for sale .
God forbid they actually rent the games for something proportional to the amount of time you keep it .
They are a terribly run business .
I expect them to go belly up soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Blockbuster rents games for 10 dollars.
It is a ripoff for whatever time period they give it to you for(like 5 days).
But it is a great deal if you take into account that the restocking fee is an extra 1.50.
You can keep the game for an extra month before they just charge it to your credit card.
I know it sounds crazy, 2 bucks a day for the rental period, and then 5 cents a day for the time you aren't supposed to have it, but that is how it works.
So any game that I can beat in under 35 days, I just rent and save myself 48 bucks or so.
I think Blockbuster has gotten wise to my scheme though, and is trying to counteract it by having extremely limited numbers of any games I would want to rent, but having tons of them for sale.
God forbid they actually rent the games for something proportional to the amount of time you keep it.
They are a terribly run business.
I expect them to go belly up soon.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541571</id>
	<title>Re:Used games help new game sales</title>
	<author>LWATCDR</author>
	<datestamp>1246459560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think what ticks them off is GameStop pushing used games over new.<br>If you go buy a new game off the self and they have a used copy they will tell you that they have a used copy and offer to sell that to you instead of the new.<br>The reason isn't good customer service it is because they make a lot more on a used game than used.  I promise you that game makers hate it with a passion.  Me I save money and hardy lever buy a new game. Okay I bought Ghostbusters new but that is a rare event.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think what ticks them off is GameStop pushing used games over new.If you go buy a new game off the self and they have a used copy they will tell you that they have a used copy and offer to sell that to you instead of the new.The reason is n't good customer service it is because they make a lot more on a used game than used .
I promise you that game makers hate it with a passion .
Me I save money and hardy lever buy a new game .
Okay I bought Ghostbusters new but that is a rare event .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think what ticks them off is GameStop pushing used games over new.If you go buy a new game off the self and they have a used copy they will tell you that they have a used copy and offer to sell that to you instead of the new.The reason isn't good customer service it is because they make a lot more on a used game than used.
I promise you that game makers hate it with a passion.
Me I save money and hardy lever buy a new game.
Okay I bought Ghostbusters new but that is a rare event.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540481</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540607</id>
	<title>What about all other 2nd hand goods (Ebay)?</title>
	<author>captainpanic</author>
	<datestamp>1246452420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Shall we start a massive database to track down <i>all</i> goods worldwide so that the producers can get a share whenever it changes hands?</p><p>I bet that would be fun.</p><p>I accidentally left my newspaper in the bus this morning. Somebody else might have picked it up. Are they going to arrest me now?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Shall we start a massive database to track down all goods worldwide so that the producers can get a share whenever it changes hands ? I bet that would be fun.I accidentally left my newspaper in the bus this morning .
Somebody else might have picked it up .
Are they going to arrest me now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shall we start a massive database to track down all goods worldwide so that the producers can get a share whenever it changes hands?I bet that would be fun.I accidentally left my newspaper in the bus this morning.
Somebody else might have picked it up.
Are they going to arrest me now?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28542965</id>
	<title>Re:They can't stand free trade?</title>
	<author>hedwards</author>
	<datestamp>1246465800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're assuming quite a bit. The game companies are encouraging the piracy by attempting to price games over what the market will bear and requiring people to crack games that they've paid for with their own hard earned money. EA being the worst offender, but others being egregious as well.<br> <br>

I pay for the games I play, and I buy a lot fewer games now that I have to worry about whether DRM is going to spy on me, prevent reinstallation or cause other undesirable problems. I've paid for the game, I own it, including the right to sell it to somebody else when I'm done with it. If they want to not grant that right, fine, but they're going to have to lower the price significantly because of that. <br> <br>

On top of that, it's observed reality that pirates can break any DRM that's been devised, and that's not going to change. I personally found myself really questioning why I was being the sucker that pays when MS made me wait several days to play Broken Steel when it was already up in other regions and even a pirated German language version.<br> <br>

Sorry to break it to you, but there is no entitlement to profit, if you don't put out a quality product in a form people are willing to buy, you're not entitled to any money at all. If you're business model is so incompetently thought out that it requires mafia tactics, then you shouldn't be allowed to have a business.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're assuming quite a bit .
The game companies are encouraging the piracy by attempting to price games over what the market will bear and requiring people to crack games that they 've paid for with their own hard earned money .
EA being the worst offender , but others being egregious as well .
I pay for the games I play , and I buy a lot fewer games now that I have to worry about whether DRM is going to spy on me , prevent reinstallation or cause other undesirable problems .
I 've paid for the game , I own it , including the right to sell it to somebody else when I 'm done with it .
If they want to not grant that right , fine , but they 're going to have to lower the price significantly because of that .
On top of that , it 's observed reality that pirates can break any DRM that 's been devised , and that 's not going to change .
I personally found myself really questioning why I was being the sucker that pays when MS made me wait several days to play Broken Steel when it was already up in other regions and even a pirated German language version .
Sorry to break it to you , but there is no entitlement to profit , if you do n't put out a quality product in a form people are willing to buy , you 're not entitled to any money at all .
If you 're business model is so incompetently thought out that it requires mafia tactics , then you should n't be allowed to have a business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're assuming quite a bit.
The game companies are encouraging the piracy by attempting to price games over what the market will bear and requiring people to crack games that they've paid for with their own hard earned money.
EA being the worst offender, but others being egregious as well.
I pay for the games I play, and I buy a lot fewer games now that I have to worry about whether DRM is going to spy on me, prevent reinstallation or cause other undesirable problems.
I've paid for the game, I own it, including the right to sell it to somebody else when I'm done with it.
If they want to not grant that right, fine, but they're going to have to lower the price significantly because of that.
On top of that, it's observed reality that pirates can break any DRM that's been devised, and that's not going to change.
I personally found myself really questioning why I was being the sucker that pays when MS made me wait several days to play Broken Steel when it was already up in other regions and even a pirated German language version.
Sorry to break it to you, but there is no entitlement to profit, if you don't put out a quality product in a form people are willing to buy, you're not entitled to any money at all.
If you're business model is so incompetently thought out that it requires mafia tactics, then you shouldn't be allowed to have a business.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540863</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28556999</id>
	<title>Re:So essentially he is saying...</title>
	<author>Registered Coward v2</author>
	<datestamp>1246546320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Thank you for restating how supply and demand curves work.</p></div><p>It's worse than that, what he's saying is selective economics.  You want to see how selective economics works?  I will now prove that used game sales increase the sales of games at retail prices:  Everyone today knows they can resell a $60 PS3 game for $15 to Gamestop.  So when they are figuring out the price, they are assuming that the game retains a resale value of $15--much like a person shopping for a car takes note of its blue book value. </p></div><p>I think we both are making the same point - the situation is more complex than the article implies; with games helping and hurting sales.  What is the net impact?  Hard to say, and it depends on your assumptions</p><p>Got to love economics, where two people can get Nobels for saying the opposite thing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Thank you for restating how supply and demand curves work.It 's worse than that , what he 's saying is selective economics .
You want to see how selective economics works ?
I will now prove that used game sales increase the sales of games at retail prices : Everyone today knows they can resell a $ 60 PS3 game for $ 15 to Gamestop .
So when they are figuring out the price , they are assuming that the game retains a resale value of $ 15--much like a person shopping for a car takes note of its blue book value .
I think we both are making the same point - the situation is more complex than the article implies ; with games helping and hurting sales .
What is the net impact ?
Hard to say , and it depends on your assumptionsGot to love economics , where two people can get Nobels for saying the opposite thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thank you for restating how supply and demand curves work.It's worse than that, what he's saying is selective economics.
You want to see how selective economics works?
I will now prove that used game sales increase the sales of games at retail prices:  Everyone today knows they can resell a $60 PS3 game for $15 to Gamestop.
So when they are figuring out the price, they are assuming that the game retains a resale value of $15--much like a person shopping for a car takes note of its blue book value.
I think we both are making the same point - the situation is more complex than the article implies; with games helping and hurting sales.
What is the net impact?
Hard to say, and it depends on your assumptionsGot to love economics, where two people can get Nobels for saying the opposite thing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540525</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28555785</id>
	<title>And this is likely to encourage sales ...</title>
	<author>RockDoctor</author>
	<datestamp>1246537140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... just how??</p><p>If the gaming industry wants me to spend money on games, then they're going to have to produce some games that actually have genuine interest to them. Run around and shoot things? Been there, done that, got bored with Quake (I, not II). Go online? Why?<br>Frankly, I've recently removed OpenArena (another run-around-and-shoot-things game) from the machine and I'm still trundling on with alternating sessions of CIV or UFO-enemy-unknown. I've not met anything with the long-standing interest of those games in 20-odd years (OK, 17-odd for UFO), and until the games industry can produce something competitive to those, I don't see any reason to invest my money in them.</p><p>The various Tomb Raiders did make a reasonable attempt at filling that niche - and I still get copies for the works machines for downtime. (We consider it to be less troublesome to supply something ourselves for people's off-shift time, rather than letting them install anything that they want to. It is a *works* machine, after all.) So, 3-for-a-tenner new games works fine for us.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... just how ?
? If the gaming industry wants me to spend money on games , then they 're going to have to produce some games that actually have genuine interest to them .
Run around and shoot things ?
Been there , done that , got bored with Quake ( I , not II ) .
Go online ?
Why ? Frankly , I 've recently removed OpenArena ( another run-around-and-shoot-things game ) from the machine and I 'm still trundling on with alternating sessions of CIV or UFO-enemy-unknown .
I 've not met anything with the long-standing interest of those games in 20-odd years ( OK , 17-odd for UFO ) , and until the games industry can produce something competitive to those , I do n't see any reason to invest my money in them.The various Tomb Raiders did make a reasonable attempt at filling that niche - and I still get copies for the works machines for downtime .
( We consider it to be less troublesome to supply something ourselves for people 's off-shift time , rather than letting them install anything that they want to .
It is a * works * machine , after all .
) So , 3-for-a-tenner new games works fine for us .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... just how?
?If the gaming industry wants me to spend money on games, then they're going to have to produce some games that actually have genuine interest to them.
Run around and shoot things?
Been there, done that, got bored with Quake (I, not II).
Go online?
Why?Frankly, I've recently removed OpenArena (another run-around-and-shoot-things game) from the machine and I'm still trundling on with alternating sessions of CIV or UFO-enemy-unknown.
I've not met anything with the long-standing interest of those games in 20-odd years (OK, 17-odd for UFO), and until the games industry can produce something competitive to those, I don't see any reason to invest my money in them.The various Tomb Raiders did make a reasonable attempt at filling that niche - and I still get copies for the works machines for downtime.
(We consider it to be less troublesome to supply something ourselves for people's off-shift time, rather than letting them install anything that they want to.
It is a *works* machine, after all.
) So, 3-for-a-tenner new games works fine for us.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28542765</id>
	<title>Re:Game companies have a way to counter this</title>
	<author>SupremoMan</author>
	<datestamp>1246465020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Make shitty games.</p></div><p>Oh you don't need to teach them this.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Make shitty games.Oh you do n't need to teach them this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Make shitty games.Oh you don't need to teach them this.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540307</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541123</id>
	<title>Re:So should book publishers try to prevent tradin</title>
	<author>SpiderClan</author>
	<datestamp>1246457040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I brought the old edition to several classes when I was in school. In some classes, the profs were generous enough to provide a "translation key" on assignments so that we could figure out which problems were assigned. For others, I went to the library to do my assignments. For one calculus class, where the assignments weren't taken from the textbook, I used a completely different textbook and still did fine.
<p>
Old editions have the same information. In fact based classes where there's only one right answer and no possibility of a viewpoint, other textbooks on the same subject have the same information. I never bought a new textbook after first year, and you don't ever have to.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I brought the old edition to several classes when I was in school .
In some classes , the profs were generous enough to provide a " translation key " on assignments so that we could figure out which problems were assigned .
For others , I went to the library to do my assignments .
For one calculus class , where the assignments were n't taken from the textbook , I used a completely different textbook and still did fine .
Old editions have the same information .
In fact based classes where there 's only one right answer and no possibility of a viewpoint , other textbooks on the same subject have the same information .
I never bought a new textbook after first year , and you do n't ever have to .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I brought the old edition to several classes when I was in school.
In some classes, the profs were generous enough to provide a "translation key" on assignments so that we could figure out which problems were assigned.
For others, I went to the library to do my assignments.
For one calculus class, where the assignments weren't taken from the textbook, I used a completely different textbook and still did fine.
Old editions have the same information.
In fact based classes where there's only one right answer and no possibility of a viewpoint, other textbooks on the same subject have the same information.
I never bought a new textbook after first year, and you don't ever have to.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540837</parent>
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--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28549257
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540723
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541261
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540321
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540525
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28556999
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541377
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_01_0639240.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540541
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_01_0639240.13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540445
</commentlist>
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_01_0639240.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540307
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540613
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541233
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28545483
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28542765
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_01_0639240.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541063
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_01_0639240.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540529
</commentlist>
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_01_0639240.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540473
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_01_0639240.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541087
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<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_01_0639240.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540249
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540669
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28548125
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28542271
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28545255
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540907
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540593
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541145
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28542267
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540681
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541499
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540941
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541565
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541607
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540421
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28565253
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540591
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_07_01_0639240.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540745
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<conversation>
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540381
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	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28540481
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_07_01_0639240.28541571
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