<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_29_1839205</id>
	<title>China Bans Gold Farming</title>
	<author>ScuttleMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1246302600000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>InformationWeek is reporting that the Chinese government has declared a <a href="http://www.informationweek.com/news/internet/ebusiness/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=218101859">ban on the sale of virtual goods for real currency</a>.  This move is poised to shut down a several billion yuan a year business that has been growing by leaps and bounds every year.  <i>"The trading of virtual currency for real cash employs hundreds of thousands of people worldwide and generates between $200 million and $1 billion annually, according to a 2008 survey conducted by Richard Heeks at the University of Manchester.  He estimates that between 80\% and 85\% of gold farmers are based in China. [...] Game companies typically forbid gold farming but committed virtual currency traders find ways around such rules. Some game companies have recognized the futility of trying to ban the practice and have built virtual commerce into their game infrastructure."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>InformationWeek is reporting that the Chinese government has declared a ban on the sale of virtual goods for real currency .
This move is poised to shut down a several billion yuan a year business that has been growing by leaps and bounds every year .
" The trading of virtual currency for real cash employs hundreds of thousands of people worldwide and generates between $ 200 million and $ 1 billion annually , according to a 2008 survey conducted by Richard Heeks at the University of Manchester .
He estimates that between 80 \ % and 85 \ % of gold farmers are based in China .
[ ... ] Game companies typically forbid gold farming but committed virtual currency traders find ways around such rules .
Some game companies have recognized the futility of trying to ban the practice and have built virtual commerce into their game infrastructure .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>InformationWeek is reporting that the Chinese government has declared a ban on the sale of virtual goods for real currency.
This move is poised to shut down a several billion yuan a year business that has been growing by leaps and bounds every year.
"The trading of virtual currency for real cash employs hundreds of thousands of people worldwide and generates between $200 million and $1 billion annually, according to a 2008 survey conducted by Richard Heeks at the University of Manchester.
He estimates that between 80\% and 85\% of gold farmers are based in China.
[...] Game companies typically forbid gold farming but committed virtual currency traders find ways around such rules.
Some game companies have recognized the futility of trying to ban the practice and have built virtual commerce into their game infrastructure.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520091</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246270920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Good point there and,<br>What if Blizz would be already selling gold to retailers?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Good point there and,What if Blizz would be already selling gold to retailers ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good point there and,What if Blizz would be already selling gold to retailers?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518811</id>
	<title>Re:Nothing to do with Gaming</title>
	<author>vlm</author>
	<datestamp>1246266480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In full disclosure: I work in the financial industry currently.</p></div><p>Could it be that Blizzard is planning on inflating their virtual gold economy less than the local central banks?</p><p>Virtual gold might not be as stable of an investment as real gold, but it might be become better than currency.  I'm sure virtual gold is more stable than Zimbabwe money...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In full disclosure : I work in the financial industry currently.Could it be that Blizzard is planning on inflating their virtual gold economy less than the local central banks ? Virtual gold might not be as stable of an investment as real gold , but it might be become better than currency .
I 'm sure virtual gold is more stable than Zimbabwe money.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In full disclosure: I work in the financial industry currently.Could it be that Blizzard is planning on inflating their virtual gold economy less than the local central banks?Virtual gold might not be as stable of an investment as real gold, but it might be become better than currency.
I'm sure virtual gold is more stable than Zimbabwe money...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519113</id>
	<title>Gold farming is the fault of MMORPG companies</title>
	<author>Shivetya</author>
	<datestamp>1246267620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I like WOW and I have liked many other games before that.</p><p>The problem WOW faces is that gold has to be used to buy one particular feature from a NPC no player can substitute for, epic flying.  While "normal" flying and such gets you there, epic flying is so many times as fast that it not only becomes a status symbol it has become a requirement for many people.  If they had put the effort into making it obtainable by quests that people could do during the course of their play or even a few group quests they could eliminate much of the gold need.</p><p>I know of nothing that causes more "gold strife" than mount costs.  Blizzard likes to state that epic flight skill isn't needed, but it is required to fly special mounts that attract a lot of interest from players, specifically dragons.  Sorry, they can claim not needed all the want, if that were so they can't justify the price.  After all if its just fluff then why is is so expensive compared to other forms of movement.</p><p>Throw in rare drops that can be sold and therein comes another source of outside gold.  People play these games to have, some play to prove competitiveness, but I don't know of people paying to work again.  Consider the time it takes to accrue the required gold just for in game NPC purchases and it makes sense that a market formed to sell it.  I cannot make the money at a rate competitive in time to what I could buy it for.  Even at $20 per 1000 gold (it spams much lower than  that in game - seen 7 to 8 dollars per 1000 gold) it is dirt cheap compared to the time I would have to take away from game play : read enjoyment.</p><p>Make gold trivial or strive to eliminate penalties, and the cost is just that.  Recently blizzard introduced the ability for players to have two complete talent specifications per character. Cost 1000g!  Hence something which has no lore backing, is nothing more than a convenience,  yet considered "required" by any serious players again asserts the need to have lots of gold.</p><p>Not smart.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I like WOW and I have liked many other games before that.The problem WOW faces is that gold has to be used to buy one particular feature from a NPC no player can substitute for , epic flying .
While " normal " flying and such gets you there , epic flying is so many times as fast that it not only becomes a status symbol it has become a requirement for many people .
If they had put the effort into making it obtainable by quests that people could do during the course of their play or even a few group quests they could eliminate much of the gold need.I know of nothing that causes more " gold strife " than mount costs .
Blizzard likes to state that epic flight skill is n't needed , but it is required to fly special mounts that attract a lot of interest from players , specifically dragons .
Sorry , they can claim not needed all the want , if that were so they ca n't justify the price .
After all if its just fluff then why is is so expensive compared to other forms of movement.Throw in rare drops that can be sold and therein comes another source of outside gold .
People play these games to have , some play to prove competitiveness , but I do n't know of people paying to work again .
Consider the time it takes to accrue the required gold just for in game NPC purchases and it makes sense that a market formed to sell it .
I can not make the money at a rate competitive in time to what I could buy it for .
Even at $ 20 per 1000 gold ( it spams much lower than that in game - seen 7 to 8 dollars per 1000 gold ) it is dirt cheap compared to the time I would have to take away from game play : read enjoyment.Make gold trivial or strive to eliminate penalties , and the cost is just that .
Recently blizzard introduced the ability for players to have two complete talent specifications per character .
Cost 1000g !
Hence something which has no lore backing , is nothing more than a convenience , yet considered " required " by any serious players again asserts the need to have lots of gold.Not smart .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I like WOW and I have liked many other games before that.The problem WOW faces is that gold has to be used to buy one particular feature from a NPC no player can substitute for, epic flying.
While "normal" flying and such gets you there, epic flying is so many times as fast that it not only becomes a status symbol it has become a requirement for many people.
If they had put the effort into making it obtainable by quests that people could do during the course of their play or even a few group quests they could eliminate much of the gold need.I know of nothing that causes more "gold strife" than mount costs.
Blizzard likes to state that epic flight skill isn't needed, but it is required to fly special mounts that attract a lot of interest from players, specifically dragons.
Sorry, they can claim not needed all the want, if that were so they can't justify the price.
After all if its just fluff then why is is so expensive compared to other forms of movement.Throw in rare drops that can be sold and therein comes another source of outside gold.
People play these games to have, some play to prove competitiveness, but I don't know of people paying to work again.
Consider the time it takes to accrue the required gold just for in game NPC purchases and it makes sense that a market formed to sell it.
I cannot make the money at a rate competitive in time to what I could buy it for.
Even at $20 per 1000 gold (it spams much lower than  that in game - seen 7 to 8 dollars per 1000 gold) it is dirt cheap compared to the time I would have to take away from game play : read enjoyment.Make gold trivial or strive to eliminate penalties, and the cost is just that.
Recently blizzard introduced the ability for players to have two complete talent specifications per character.
Cost 1000g!
Hence something which has no lore backing, is nothing more than a convenience,  yet considered "required" by any serious players again asserts the need to have lots of gold.Not smart.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518151</id>
	<title>Loyaly Programs</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246307160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wouldn't that make loyalty programs (such as Air Miles) illegal? They also trade virtual currency (points) for cash and goods.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would n't that make loyalty programs ( such as Air Miles ) illegal ?
They also trade virtual currency ( points ) for cash and goods .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wouldn't that make loyalty programs (such as Air Miles) illegal?
They also trade virtual currency (points) for cash and goods.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28522451</id>
	<title>Laugh at me if you will</title>
	<author>CrazyJim1</author>
	<datestamp>1246282680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I made 10$/hr playing Asheron's Call.  I tried hiring my friends, but no one wanted to give me a cut of their ebay gold. You can't hire Americans to play video games for<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.50$ an hour, but Chinese will.  So I was honestly considering opening a gold farming business for the next big MMORPG.  I guess since China banned them, I will forget about starting my own business.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I made 10 $ /hr playing Asheron 's Call .
I tried hiring my friends , but no one wanted to give me a cut of their ebay gold .
You ca n't hire Americans to play video games for .50 $ an hour , but Chinese will .
So I was honestly considering opening a gold farming business for the next big MMORPG .
I guess since China banned them , I will forget about starting my own business .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I made 10$/hr playing Asheron's Call.
I tried hiring my friends, but no one wanted to give me a cut of their ebay gold.
You can't hire Americans to play video games for .50$ an hour, but Chinese will.
So I was honestly considering opening a gold farming business for the next big MMORPG.
I guess since China banned them, I will forget about starting my own business.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28528453</id>
	<title>Re:Gold farming is the fault of MMORPG companies</title>
	<author>L4t3r4lu5</author>
	<datestamp>1246377240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I achieve in real life. I make money to pay for my hobbies.<p><div class="quote"><p>To me paying for gold so I can buy some really nice item is basically just turning that item into nothing more than a reflection of the size of my real-world disposable income.</p></div><p>So, you don't think investing money in a hobby is worth while?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I achieve in real life .
I make money to pay for my hobbies.To me paying for gold so I can buy some really nice item is basically just turning that item into nothing more than a reflection of the size of my real-world disposable income.So , you do n't think investing money in a hobby is worth while ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I achieve in real life.
I make money to pay for my hobbies.To me paying for gold so I can buy some really nice item is basically just turning that item into nothing more than a reflection of the size of my real-world disposable income.So, you don't think investing money in a hobby is worth while?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520323</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518393</id>
	<title>This Changes Nothing</title>
	<author>Greyfox</author>
	<datestamp>1246308120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Assuming the companies that were actually making the profits selling the gold were inside China they could just relocate elsewhere and continue to employ Chinese to farm their gold. Even if the Chinese government cracks down on those employees, there are still plenty of impoverished nations whose citizens would be happy to work for 16 hours a day for $.20 a day. It just means that instead I'll need to brush up on insulting phrases in languages other than Mandarin. Does anyone know the Somali for "Go stick your head in a goat"?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Assuming the companies that were actually making the profits selling the gold were inside China they could just relocate elsewhere and continue to employ Chinese to farm their gold .
Even if the Chinese government cracks down on those employees , there are still plenty of impoverished nations whose citizens would be happy to work for 16 hours a day for $ .20 a day .
It just means that instead I 'll need to brush up on insulting phrases in languages other than Mandarin .
Does anyone know the Somali for " Go stick your head in a goat " ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Assuming the companies that were actually making the profits selling the gold were inside China they could just relocate elsewhere and continue to employ Chinese to farm their gold.
Even if the Chinese government cracks down on those employees, there are still plenty of impoverished nations whose citizens would be happy to work for 16 hours a day for $.20 a day.
It just means that instead I'll need to brush up on insulting phrases in languages other than Mandarin.
Does anyone know the Somali for "Go stick your head in a goat"?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518189</id>
	<title>Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246307280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The numbers aren't adding up because the exchange rate for Chinese currency to U.S. Dollars is incorrect and the author dropped some zeroes. One Dollar is equal to ~7 Renminbi, so one billion Renminbi should be $146,000,000.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The numbers are n't adding up because the exchange rate for Chinese currency to U.S. Dollars is incorrect and the author dropped some zeroes .
One Dollar is equal to ~ 7 Renminbi , so one billion Renminbi should be $ 146,000,000 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The numbers aren't adding up because the exchange rate for Chinese currency to U.S. Dollars is incorrect and the author dropped some zeroes.
One Dollar is equal to ~7 Renminbi, so one billion Renminbi should be $146,000,000.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28517903</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28522819</id>
	<title>Re:so we are so lazy now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246284840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except I actually enjoy sex, food, and taking a nice long piss.</p><p>Given that some hate farming gold, why not pay for it?</p><p>Think about it, if someone enjoys farming gold as much as work, they can work overtime at $40/hour and use 15 MINUTES of that to buy 1,000 gold in WoW. Or I can farm gold for SEVERAL HOURS. It really makes no sense not to buy gold. You are, after all, trying to compete in wages against a Chinaman and we all know that is impossible, so what's the big deal?</p><p>A couple hours of time, $30, 1k gold, and the the thought of my peers I'm a hard worker versus.... 1k gold. Gee, I wonder.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except I actually enjoy sex , food , and taking a nice long piss.Given that some hate farming gold , why not pay for it ? Think about it , if someone enjoys farming gold as much as work , they can work overtime at $ 40/hour and use 15 MINUTES of that to buy 1,000 gold in WoW .
Or I can farm gold for SEVERAL HOURS .
It really makes no sense not to buy gold .
You are , after all , trying to compete in wages against a Chinaman and we all know that is impossible , so what 's the big deal ? A couple hours of time , $ 30 , 1k gold , and the the thought of my peers I 'm a hard worker versus.... 1k gold .
Gee , I wonder .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except I actually enjoy sex, food, and taking a nice long piss.Given that some hate farming gold, why not pay for it?Think about it, if someone enjoys farming gold as much as work, they can work overtime at $40/hour and use 15 MINUTES of that to buy 1,000 gold in WoW.
Or I can farm gold for SEVERAL HOURS.
It really makes no sense not to buy gold.
You are, after all, trying to compete in wages against a Chinaman and we all know that is impossible, so what's the big deal?A couple hours of time, $30, 1k gold, and the the thought of my peers I'm a hard worker versus.... 1k gold.
Gee, I wonder.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518309</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518029</id>
	<title>Isn't currency virtual already?</title>
	<author>caywen</author>
	<datestamp>1246306680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't virtual currency just a microcosm of a "real" currency system? Perhaps they should also start cracking down on retail gift cards and "point" systems, too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't virtual currency just a microcosm of a " real " currency system ?
Perhaps they should also start cracking down on retail gift cards and " point " systems , too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't virtual currency just a microcosm of a "real" currency system?
Perhaps they should also start cracking down on retail gift cards and "point" systems, too.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518855</id>
	<title>Sillly</title>
	<author>FunkyELF</author>
	<datestamp>1246266660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>built virtual commerce into their game infrastructure</p></div><p>So you can go to work in a virtual world, selling virtual services for virtual gold.<br>
You can then sell that gold to a 12 year old idiot who got his mom's credit card.<br>
<br>
Thats kinda funny.<br>
I have a roommate who is adicted to FarmTown on Facebook.  He is constantly farming other people's crops to get money to buy stuff for his own farm.<br>
<br> <br>
Imagine a farmer in China getting a computer, and farming in a virtual world, selling his virtual income for actual income and that being more than he made farming in real life.<br>
Crazy!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>built virtual commerce into their game infrastructureSo you can go to work in a virtual world , selling virtual services for virtual gold .
You can then sell that gold to a 12 year old idiot who got his mom 's credit card .
Thats kinda funny .
I have a roommate who is adicted to FarmTown on Facebook .
He is constantly farming other people 's crops to get money to buy stuff for his own farm .
Imagine a farmer in China getting a computer , and farming in a virtual world , selling his virtual income for actual income and that being more than he made farming in real life .
Crazy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>built virtual commerce into their game infrastructureSo you can go to work in a virtual world, selling virtual services for virtual gold.
You can then sell that gold to a 12 year old idiot who got his mom's credit card.
Thats kinda funny.
I have a roommate who is adicted to FarmTown on Facebook.
He is constantly farming other people's crops to get money to buy stuff for his own farm.
Imagine a farmer in China getting a computer, and farming in a virtual world, selling his virtual income for actual income and that being more than he made farming in real life.
Crazy!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28517903</id>
	<title>Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246306200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The trading of virtual currency for real cash employs hundreds of thousands of people worldwide and generates between <b>$200 million and $1 billion annually</b>, according to a 2008 survey conducted by Richard Heeks at the University of Manchester. He estimates that between <b>80\% and 85\% of gold farmers are based in China</b>.</p> </div><p>Dear god!  Eight tenths of one billion dollars is a lot of cash!</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The Chinese government estimates that <b>trade in virtual currency exceeded several billion yuan</b> last year, a figure that it claims has been growing at a rate of 20\% annually. <b>One billion yuan is currently equal to about $146,000</b>.</p> </div><p>So what is it, hundreds of millions or hundreds of thousands?  Because one is a nice chunk of change while the other is, across China's population, laughable.  <br> <br>

These numbers just aren't adding up here.  There seems to be a large disparity between what the Chinese government reports and what Heeks' study finds.  It's entirely possible that Heeks' is stretching stats to make his research sound more important and news worthy.  It's also possible China is understating the impact their ban will have so they can "cure you of your illnesses."  The reality is probably both a little of column A and a little of column B.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Some game companies have recognized the futility of trying to ban the practice and have built virtual commerce into their game infrastructure.</p></div><p>And now China will realize that futility.  One would think that <a href="http://www.worldwide-tax.com/china/china\_tax.asp" title="worldwide-tax.com" rel="nofollow">China would enjoy the tax on those who report this income</a> [worldwide-tax.com] but now it's just going to all go under-the-table.  Hell, I'd say tax it but I'm certain China wants to look like the caring government attempting to heal the <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/10/196234" title="slashdot.org" rel="nofollow">afflicted youth</a> [slashdot.org].</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The trading of virtual currency for real cash employs hundreds of thousands of people worldwide and generates between $ 200 million and $ 1 billion annually , according to a 2008 survey conducted by Richard Heeks at the University of Manchester .
He estimates that between 80 \ % and 85 \ % of gold farmers are based in China .
Dear god !
Eight tenths of one billion dollars is a lot of cash ! The Chinese government estimates that trade in virtual currency exceeded several billion yuan last year , a figure that it claims has been growing at a rate of 20 \ % annually .
One billion yuan is currently equal to about $ 146,000 .
So what is it , hundreds of millions or hundreds of thousands ?
Because one is a nice chunk of change while the other is , across China 's population , laughable .
These numbers just are n't adding up here .
There seems to be a large disparity between what the Chinese government reports and what Heeks ' study finds .
It 's entirely possible that Heeks ' is stretching stats to make his research sound more important and news worthy .
It 's also possible China is understating the impact their ban will have so they can " cure you of your illnesses .
" The reality is probably both a little of column A and a little of column B.Some game companies have recognized the futility of trying to ban the practice and have built virtual commerce into their game infrastructure.And now China will realize that futility .
One would think that China would enjoy the tax on those who report this income [ worldwide-tax.com ] but now it 's just going to all go under-the-table .
Hell , I 'd say tax it but I 'm certain China wants to look like the caring government attempting to heal the afflicted youth [ slashdot.org ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The trading of virtual currency for real cash employs hundreds of thousands of people worldwide and generates between $200 million and $1 billion annually, according to a 2008 survey conducted by Richard Heeks at the University of Manchester.
He estimates that between 80\% and 85\% of gold farmers are based in China.
Dear god!
Eight tenths of one billion dollars is a lot of cash!The Chinese government estimates that trade in virtual currency exceeded several billion yuan last year, a figure that it claims has been growing at a rate of 20\% annually.
One billion yuan is currently equal to about $146,000.
So what is it, hundreds of millions or hundreds of thousands?
Because one is a nice chunk of change while the other is, across China's population, laughable.
These numbers just aren't adding up here.
There seems to be a large disparity between what the Chinese government reports and what Heeks' study finds.
It's entirely possible that Heeks' is stretching stats to make his research sound more important and news worthy.
It's also possible China is understating the impact their ban will have so they can "cure you of your illnesses.
"  The reality is probably both a little of column A and a little of column B.Some game companies have recognized the futility of trying to ban the practice and have built virtual commerce into their game infrastructure.And now China will realize that futility.
One would think that China would enjoy the tax on those who report this income [worldwide-tax.com] but now it's just going to all go under-the-table.
Hell, I'd say tax it but I'm certain China wants to look like the caring government attempting to heal the afflicted youth [slashdot.org].
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520785</id>
	<title>Re:Gold farming is the fault of MMORPG companies</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246273980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This argument isn't that compelling anymore. 5000g was a hefty sum in BC when initially there were only 2 daily quests and questing wasn't as streamlined. In Wrath, you can stumble into that sum if you just keep questing past 80 or do dailies for rep grinds. It's just a matter of avoiding frivolous purchases, no AH savvy or intense play required. Not to mention mount costs are being reduced next patch, and non-epic flier speeds will be nearly tripled.</p><p>Now 1000g an hour I can not do, but remember that you're buying tainted goods. 99\% of the gold out there is obtained from hacking accounts, fleecing them, and leaving the unfortunate player to deal with the leftover mess. I don't think anyone's time is worth putting another person through that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This argument is n't that compelling anymore .
5000g was a hefty sum in BC when initially there were only 2 daily quests and questing was n't as streamlined .
In Wrath , you can stumble into that sum if you just keep questing past 80 or do dailies for rep grinds .
It 's just a matter of avoiding frivolous purchases , no AH savvy or intense play required .
Not to mention mount costs are being reduced next patch , and non-epic flier speeds will be nearly tripled.Now 1000g an hour I can not do , but remember that you 're buying tainted goods .
99 \ % of the gold out there is obtained from hacking accounts , fleecing them , and leaving the unfortunate player to deal with the leftover mess .
I do n't think anyone 's time is worth putting another person through that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This argument isn't that compelling anymore.
5000g was a hefty sum in BC when initially there were only 2 daily quests and questing wasn't as streamlined.
In Wrath, you can stumble into that sum if you just keep questing past 80 or do dailies for rep grinds.
It's just a matter of avoiding frivolous purchases, no AH savvy or intense play required.
Not to mention mount costs are being reduced next patch, and non-epic flier speeds will be nearly tripled.Now 1000g an hour I can not do, but remember that you're buying tainted goods.
99\% of the gold out there is obtained from hacking accounts, fleecing them, and leaving the unfortunate player to deal with the leftover mess.
I don't think anyone's time is worth putting another person through that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518049</id>
	<title>"Virtual goods"</title>
	<author>Lohrno</author>
	<datestamp>1246306740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"InformationWeek is reporting that the Chinese government has declared a ban on the sale of virtual goods for real currency."

If worded exactly like that, does that mean that there will be no Korean MMOGs there?  Those game companies themselves make their entire business model to sell virtual goods for real cash...</htmltext>
<tokenext>" InformationWeek is reporting that the Chinese government has declared a ban on the sale of virtual goods for real currency .
" If worded exactly like that , does that mean that there will be no Korean MMOGs there ?
Those game companies themselves make their entire business model to sell virtual goods for real cash.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"InformationWeek is reporting that the Chinese government has declared a ban on the sale of virtual goods for real currency.
"

If worded exactly like that, does that mean that there will be no Korean MMOGs there?
Those game companies themselves make their entire business model to sell virtual goods for real cash...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518085</id>
	<title>Chinas motives</title>
	<author>Gresyth</author>
	<datestamp>1246306860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> The government justifies its ban on virtual currency trading as a way to curtail gambling and other illegal online activities.</p></div><p>Will the other illegal online activities include, dissent against the govt or telling the world about human rights violations? Looks like its another way to pass a law to restrict their populace.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The government justifies its ban on virtual currency trading as a way to curtail gambling and other illegal online activities.Will the other illegal online activities include , dissent against the govt or telling the world about human rights violations ?
Looks like its another way to pass a law to restrict their populace .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The government justifies its ban on virtual currency trading as a way to curtail gambling and other illegal online activities.Will the other illegal online activities include, dissent against the govt or telling the world about human rights violations?
Looks like its another way to pass a law to restrict their populace.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28517993</id>
	<title>A 'Webpage' is a Virtual Item</title>
	<author>MrMista\_B</author>
	<datestamp>1246306500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, China just fobade anyone who does any work on the inernet from receiving payment of any kind for their services.</p><p>Wow.</p><p>No, seriously, I'm impressed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , China just fobade anyone who does any work on the inernet from receiving payment of any kind for their services.Wow.No , seriously , I 'm impressed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, China just fobade anyone who does any work on the inernet from receiving payment of any kind for their services.Wow.No, seriously, I'm impressed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520519</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246272600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I really dont understand why this idea is difficult.</p><p>When something is worth money, illegal activities follow.<br>Just check your email to see the amount of phishing scams that tries to steal WoW login information or viruses/trojans specific to WoW.</p><p>Remove the monetary value and it has no value therefore people will have no incentive to illegally steal account information.<br>Now I have no hard data, mostly anecdotal evidence, but most people who use these services tend to get hacked and their fun game turns into a hard fought fight to get everything back. (In WoW anyways)</p><p>Also on the question on why does blizzard not allow sales of gold?<br>This is really not that hard.</p><p>People play to have fun.<br>It is fun when everyone is on an equal footing.<br>Just look at sports.<br>They are all mostly on an equal footing.<br>They can get the players and coaches so that they stand a chance playing other teams.<br>If they were not somewhat equal, whats the point of watching the game?</p><p>So why play when a rich kid just buys everything to the point a normal player can not stand a chance against them?<br>This is why I believe WoW is so big.<br>All players have an equal chance to do everything in the game.<br>It does not matter if your rich or poor or if you have the hours on hours to play.<br>Everyone can eventually do what they want, within the rules of course.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I really dont understand why this idea is difficult.When something is worth money , illegal activities follow.Just check your email to see the amount of phishing scams that tries to steal WoW login information or viruses/trojans specific to WoW.Remove the monetary value and it has no value therefore people will have no incentive to illegally steal account information.Now I have no hard data , mostly anecdotal evidence , but most people who use these services tend to get hacked and their fun game turns into a hard fought fight to get everything back .
( In WoW anyways ) Also on the question on why does blizzard not allow sales of gold ? This is really not that hard.People play to have fun.It is fun when everyone is on an equal footing.Just look at sports.They are all mostly on an equal footing.They can get the players and coaches so that they stand a chance playing other teams.If they were not somewhat equal , whats the point of watching the game ? So why play when a rich kid just buys everything to the point a normal player can not stand a chance against them ? This is why I believe WoW is so big.All players have an equal chance to do everything in the game.It does not matter if your rich or poor or if you have the hours on hours to play.Everyone can eventually do what they want , within the rules of course .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really dont understand why this idea is difficult.When something is worth money, illegal activities follow.Just check your email to see the amount of phishing scams that tries to steal WoW login information or viruses/trojans specific to WoW.Remove the monetary value and it has no value therefore people will have no incentive to illegally steal account information.Now I have no hard data, mostly anecdotal evidence, but most people who use these services tend to get hacked and their fun game turns into a hard fought fight to get everything back.
(In WoW anyways)Also on the question on why does blizzard not allow sales of gold?This is really not that hard.People play to have fun.It is fun when everyone is on an equal footing.Just look at sports.They are all mostly on an equal footing.They can get the players and coaches so that they stand a chance playing other teams.If they were not somewhat equal, whats the point of watching the game?So why play when a rich kid just buys everything to the point a normal player can not stand a chance against them?This is why I believe WoW is so big.All players have an equal chance to do everything in the game.It does not matter if your rich or poor or if you have the hours on hours to play.Everyone can eventually do what they want, within the rules of course.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520781</id>
	<title>After they announced the ban...</title>
	<author>Yvanhoe</author>
	<datestamp>1246273980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>... they announced that they bought 3Drealms and will be releasing Duke Nukem Forever by Fall 2009</htmltext>
<tokenext>... they announced that they bought 3Drealms and will be releasing Duke Nukem Forever by Fall 2009</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... they announced that they bought 3Drealms and will be releasing Duke Nukem Forever by Fall 2009</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518489</id>
	<title>Screenshots...</title>
	<author>HunterZ</author>
	<datestamp>1246308600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Screenshots or it didn't happen!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Screenshots or it did n't happen !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Screenshots or it didn't happen!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520625</id>
	<title>Re:Nothing to do with Gaming</title>
	<author>joe\_frisch</author>
	<datestamp>1246273140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is the distinction between real and virtual goods that clear? I can buy music, videos, games and game upgrade packages online. If I pay to listen to music in an online game, is that a real or a virtual good. What if the performer is also in the game? What if I want to sell copies of music made in a game to the outside world?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is the distinction between real and virtual goods that clear ?
I can buy music , videos , games and game upgrade packages online .
If I pay to listen to music in an online game , is that a real or a virtual good .
What if the performer is also in the game ?
What if I want to sell copies of music made in a game to the outside world ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is the distinction between real and virtual goods that clear?
I can buy music, videos, games and game upgrade packages online.
If I pay to listen to music in an online game, is that a real or a virtual good.
What if the performer is also in the game?
What if I want to sell copies of music made in a game to the outside world?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518425</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520893</id>
	<title>Gold farming is the fault of stupid people</title>
	<author>SL Baur</author>
	<datestamp>1246274580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Blizzard likes to state that epic flight skill isn't needed, but it is required to fly special mounts that attract a lot of interest from players, specifically dragons.</p></div><p>Epic flying isn't required, though it's very useful.  I'm not sure what's "needed" about dragon mounts.  My main rides a nether ray.  Those were rarely seen even in TBC days.  I like the uniqueness aspect.</p><p>Do people with the oversized mounts (mammoths and dragons) who routinely block mailboxes, etc., whether they are trying to or not, really think they're impressing other players?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Blizzard likes to state that epic flight skill is n't needed , but it is required to fly special mounts that attract a lot of interest from players , specifically dragons.Epic flying is n't required , though it 's very useful .
I 'm not sure what 's " needed " about dragon mounts .
My main rides a nether ray .
Those were rarely seen even in TBC days .
I like the uniqueness aspect.Do people with the oversized mounts ( mammoths and dragons ) who routinely block mailboxes , etc. , whether they are trying to or not , really think they 're impressing other players ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Blizzard likes to state that epic flight skill isn't needed, but it is required to fly special mounts that attract a lot of interest from players, specifically dragons.Epic flying isn't required, though it's very useful.
I'm not sure what's "needed" about dragon mounts.
My main rides a nether ray.
Those were rarely seen even in TBC days.
I like the uniqueness aspect.Do people with the oversized mounts (mammoths and dragons) who routinely block mailboxes, etc., whether they are trying to or not, really think they're impressing other players?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520323</id>
	<title>Re:Gold farming is the fault of MMORPG companies</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246271820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're right about the flying mounts; it was silly of them to make what is essentially the next upgrade after the fast epic mount be SLOWER than the thing it's replacing. Fortunately the standard flying mount is getting more than 2x faster in the next major patch, and also somewhat cheaper. Ground mounts are getting a LOT cheaper.</p><p>Mounts aside, in over four years of playing WoW I've never felt the absolute MUST HAVE desire for anything in-game. Sure, I've wanted some things (dungeon armor sets, for example) but never to the point of paying for gold to get them. To me paying for gold so I can buy some really nice item is basically just turning that item into nothing more than a reflection of the size of my real-world disposable income. I would rather there be some sense of accomplishment attached to it,even if it's just a lot of farming or holding out for six months until my regular game play has built up enough gold for it.</p><p>Then again, I'm what you might call a "hard-core casual" player. I play quite a bit, but I just play to have fun and I'm not overly concerned with comparing myself to everyone else in the game. Usually after I hit 80 I just start levelling another alt of a class I haven't tried before. I don't even bother with guilds because the casual guilds are almost useless and the alternative are the hardcore guilds that kicks you out because you decided to take a couple weeks off from the game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're right about the flying mounts ; it was silly of them to make what is essentially the next upgrade after the fast epic mount be SLOWER than the thing it 's replacing .
Fortunately the standard flying mount is getting more than 2x faster in the next major patch , and also somewhat cheaper .
Ground mounts are getting a LOT cheaper.Mounts aside , in over four years of playing WoW I 've never felt the absolute MUST HAVE desire for anything in-game .
Sure , I 've wanted some things ( dungeon armor sets , for example ) but never to the point of paying for gold to get them .
To me paying for gold so I can buy some really nice item is basically just turning that item into nothing more than a reflection of the size of my real-world disposable income .
I would rather there be some sense of accomplishment attached to it,even if it 's just a lot of farming or holding out for six months until my regular game play has built up enough gold for it.Then again , I 'm what you might call a " hard-core casual " player .
I play quite a bit , but I just play to have fun and I 'm not overly concerned with comparing myself to everyone else in the game .
Usually after I hit 80 I just start levelling another alt of a class I have n't tried before .
I do n't even bother with guilds because the casual guilds are almost useless and the alternative are the hardcore guilds that kicks you out because you decided to take a couple weeks off from the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're right about the flying mounts; it was silly of them to make what is essentially the next upgrade after the fast epic mount be SLOWER than the thing it's replacing.
Fortunately the standard flying mount is getting more than 2x faster in the next major patch, and also somewhat cheaper.
Ground mounts are getting a LOT cheaper.Mounts aside, in over four years of playing WoW I've never felt the absolute MUST HAVE desire for anything in-game.
Sure, I've wanted some things (dungeon armor sets, for example) but never to the point of paying for gold to get them.
To me paying for gold so I can buy some really nice item is basically just turning that item into nothing more than a reflection of the size of my real-world disposable income.
I would rather there be some sense of accomplishment attached to it,even if it's just a lot of farming or holding out for six months until my regular game play has built up enough gold for it.Then again, I'm what you might call a "hard-core casual" player.
I play quite a bit, but I just play to have fun and I'm not overly concerned with comparing myself to everyone else in the game.
Usually after I hit 80 I just start levelling another alt of a class I haven't tried before.
I don't even bother with guilds because the casual guilds are almost useless and the alternative are the hardcore guilds that kicks you out because you decided to take a couple weeks off from the game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519043</id>
	<title>You owe them</title>
	<author>32771</author>
	<datestamp>1246267320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Something makes me think that the Chinese government helped some of you.</p><p>Not that I like the idea but - I can be pragmatic.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Something makes me think that the Chinese government helped some of you.Not that I like the idea but - I can be pragmatic .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Something makes me think that the Chinese government helped some of you.Not that I like the idea but - I can be pragmatic.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28523699</id>
	<title>dead people or money?</title>
	<author>markringen</author>
	<datestamp>1246291560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>people get killed in china over these things, it's time to shut these bunch of bandits down.</htmltext>
<tokenext>people get killed in china over these things , it 's time to shut these bunch of bandits down .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>people get killed in china over these things, it's time to shut these bunch of bandits down.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520877</id>
	<title>Re:A 'Webpage' is a Virtual Item</title>
	<author>bill\_mcgonigle</author>
	<datestamp>1246274520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It sounds more like they shut down their stock market.  Obviously, I didn't read the article.</p><p>But China is hoarding gold so the Yuan can emerge as the new world reserve currency when the Dollar collapses, so there might be something to this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It sounds more like they shut down their stock market .
Obviously , I did n't read the article.But China is hoarding gold so the Yuan can emerge as the new world reserve currency when the Dollar collapses , so there might be something to this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It sounds more like they shut down their stock market.
Obviously, I didn't read the article.But China is hoarding gold so the Yuan can emerge as the new world reserve currency when the Dollar collapses, so there might be something to this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28517993</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</id>
	<title>Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1246307520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not illegal to make Gold.<br>It's not illegal to Give Gold.<br>It's not illegal to Give real Money to someone else.</p><p>But somewhere along the way, selling Gold online becomes illegal. Wheras stating the transaction as a two-way donation easily bypasses the law.</p><p>Also - the big question - why would this become illegal? People do what they want with their money. If Blizzard was smart - they'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this. They've already ruined WoW four times over. Anyone who's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.</p><p>Gold farmers also increase the amount of subscriptions that the game has, more money going into the developers... I don't get why they fight it so much.</p><p>To me - its the worst business logic I've ever come across, and games that have these microtransactions already involved will be the ones who come out on top.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not illegal to make Gold.It 's not illegal to Give Gold.It 's not illegal to Give real Money to someone else.But somewhere along the way , selling Gold online becomes illegal .
Wheras stating the transaction as a two-way donation easily bypasses the law.Also - the big question - why would this become illegal ?
People do what they want with their money .
If Blizzard was smart - they 'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this .
They 've already ruined WoW four times over .
Anyone who 's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.Gold farmers also increase the amount of subscriptions that the game has , more money going into the developers... I do n't get why they fight it so much.To me - its the worst business logic I 've ever come across , and games that have these microtransactions already involved will be the ones who come out on top .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not illegal to make Gold.It's not illegal to Give Gold.It's not illegal to Give real Money to someone else.But somewhere along the way, selling Gold online becomes illegal.
Wheras stating the transaction as a two-way donation easily bypasses the law.Also - the big question - why would this become illegal?
People do what they want with their money.
If Blizzard was smart - they'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this.
They've already ruined WoW four times over.
Anyone who's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.Gold farmers also increase the amount of subscriptions that the game has, more money going into the developers... I don't get why they fight it so much.To me - its the worst business logic I've ever come across, and games that have these microtransactions already involved will be the ones who come out on top.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518739</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>HikingStick</author>
	<datestamp>1246266240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you give to someone else with the expectation of something in return, you are no longer talking about a donation, but either a financial transaction or barter.  You can play the word game as much as you like, but if your character donates 100,000 gold to another player's character, and that character's player--out of the goodness of his or her heart--decides to find out who you are and send you cash, then a <i>de facto</i> transaction has taken place.<br> <br>If your logic had any legal merit, you'd find cadres of hookers using the "I donated services" defense while the Johns make a "I made a cash donation" defense. <br> <br>Besides, any time you give money to a group or individual and receive something tangible in return, the only part of the transaction that is considered a donation is the amount <i>above</i> the fair market value of the item.  So, if you buy a tin of popcorn from your local Boy Scout for $10, and the tin would normally sell for $4 at retail, your donation is only $6.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you give to someone else with the expectation of something in return , you are no longer talking about a donation , but either a financial transaction or barter .
You can play the word game as much as you like , but if your character donates 100,000 gold to another player 's character , and that character 's player--out of the goodness of his or her heart--decides to find out who you are and send you cash , then a de facto transaction has taken place .
If your logic had any legal merit , you 'd find cadres of hookers using the " I donated services " defense while the Johns make a " I made a cash donation " defense .
Besides , any time you give money to a group or individual and receive something tangible in return , the only part of the transaction that is considered a donation is the amount above the fair market value of the item .
So , if you buy a tin of popcorn from your local Boy Scout for $ 10 , and the tin would normally sell for $ 4 at retail , your donation is only $ 6 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you give to someone else with the expectation of something in return, you are no longer talking about a donation, but either a financial transaction or barter.
You can play the word game as much as you like, but if your character donates 100,000 gold to another player's character, and that character's player--out of the goodness of his or her heart--decides to find out who you are and send you cash, then a de facto transaction has taken place.
If your logic had any legal merit, you'd find cadres of hookers using the "I donated services" defense while the Johns make a "I made a cash donation" defense.
Besides, any time you give money to a group or individual and receive something tangible in return, the only part of the transaction that is considered a donation is the amount above the fair market value of the item.
So, if you buy a tin of popcorn from your local Boy Scout for $10, and the tin would normally sell for $4 at retail, your donation is only $6.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518133</id>
	<title>There is always India</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246307100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And suddenly thousands of Indian techies have opened Warcraft accounts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And suddenly thousands of Indian techies have opened Warcraft accounts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And suddenly thousands of Indian techies have opened Warcraft accounts.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518519</id>
	<title>Not the end of Chinese Gold Farming</title>
	<author>tick\_and\_bash</author>
	<datestamp>1246308720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>While they have expressly forbidden the exchange of virtual currency/services for real cash, it does not forbid the exchange of their time (services) for a player's cash.

This does not prevent them from offering powerlevelling, honor farming, or item grinding.  (Change the term for whatever your MMO of choice terms these services.)  These services are normally quoted as a function of time.

Anyone who uses a bit of creative wording/pricing can still continue to sell virtual currency.  So long as they refer to it as a service, then in theory they should be able to skirt this new ban.  Quite a few sites list a time frame in which they can get gold to you.  Up to 2 days for larger orders.  Let's say someone wants to buy 10,000g.  With a 2 day turn around time, that's about ~210g per hour.  (Most players with a bit of a clue can easily bang out that much if not more per hour.)  Thus, they have sold the player their playing time for a specific goal.

I honestly don't think this solves anything.  It'll either create an underground market, or sites will start to use more creative wording.</htmltext>
<tokenext>While they have expressly forbidden the exchange of virtual currency/services for real cash , it does not forbid the exchange of their time ( services ) for a player 's cash .
This does not prevent them from offering powerlevelling , honor farming , or item grinding .
( Change the term for whatever your MMO of choice terms these services .
) These services are normally quoted as a function of time .
Anyone who uses a bit of creative wording/pricing can still continue to sell virtual currency .
So long as they refer to it as a service , then in theory they should be able to skirt this new ban .
Quite a few sites list a time frame in which they can get gold to you .
Up to 2 days for larger orders .
Let 's say someone wants to buy 10,000g .
With a 2 day turn around time , that 's about ~ 210g per hour .
( Most players with a bit of a clue can easily bang out that much if not more per hour .
) Thus , they have sold the player their playing time for a specific goal .
I honestly do n't think this solves anything .
It 'll either create an underground market , or sites will start to use more creative wording .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While they have expressly forbidden the exchange of virtual currency/services for real cash, it does not forbid the exchange of their time (services) for a player's cash.
This does not prevent them from offering powerlevelling, honor farming, or item grinding.
(Change the term for whatever your MMO of choice terms these services.
)  These services are normally quoted as a function of time.
Anyone who uses a bit of creative wording/pricing can still continue to sell virtual currency.
So long as they refer to it as a service, then in theory they should be able to skirt this new ban.
Quite a few sites list a time frame in which they can get gold to you.
Up to 2 days for larger orders.
Let's say someone wants to buy 10,000g.
With a 2 day turn around time, that's about ~210g per hour.
(Most players with a bit of a clue can easily bang out that much if not more per hour.
)  Thus, they have sold the player their playing time for a specific goal.
I honestly don't think this solves anything.
It'll either create an underground market, or sites will start to use more creative wording.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518641</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>Red Flayer</author>
	<datestamp>1246266000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Also - the big question - why would this become illegal? People do what they want with their money. If Blizzard was smart - they'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this.</p></div></blockquote><p>Once they start doing this, then they run afoul of banking regulations.  Suddenly they are running an currency exchange board using a 'phony' currency... lots of countries would have issues with this.<br> <br>China is trying to clean up its image regarding currencies, and one of the things necessary is that they limit certain transactions, especially ones involving other countries' currencies, that screw with international trade.  Especially so in light of their recent request to the IMF that a 'supercurrency' is created.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also - the big question - why would this become illegal ?
People do what they want with their money .
If Blizzard was smart - they 'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this.Once they start doing this , then they run afoul of banking regulations .
Suddenly they are running an currency exchange board using a 'phony ' currency... lots of countries would have issues with this .
China is trying to clean up its image regarding currencies , and one of the things necessary is that they limit certain transactions , especially ones involving other countries ' currencies , that screw with international trade .
Especially so in light of their recent request to the IMF that a 'supercurrency ' is created .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also - the big question - why would this become illegal?
People do what they want with their money.
If Blizzard was smart - they'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this.Once they start doing this, then they run afoul of banking regulations.
Suddenly they are running an currency exchange board using a 'phony' currency... lots of countries would have issues with this.
China is trying to clean up its image regarding currencies, and one of the things necessary is that they limit certain transactions, especially ones involving other countries' currencies, that screw with international trade.
Especially so in light of their recent request to the IMF that a 'supercurrency' is created.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519317</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>seebs</author>
	<datestamp>1246268340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not illegal to report truthfully about embarassing facts.<br>It's not illegal to give someone money.<br>It's illegal to blackmail people.</p><p>It's not illegal to get drunk.<br>It's not illegal to drive.<br>It's illegal to drive drunk.</p><p>Some combinations of legal things are illegal.</p><p>I really don't object to them banning this -- I think the harm done to the rest of the community is significant, and would not miss these people at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not illegal to report truthfully about embarassing facts.It 's not illegal to give someone money.It 's illegal to blackmail people.It 's not illegal to get drunk.It 's not illegal to drive.It 's illegal to drive drunk.Some combinations of legal things are illegal.I really do n't object to them banning this -- I think the harm done to the rest of the community is significant , and would not miss these people at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not illegal to report truthfully about embarassing facts.It's not illegal to give someone money.It's illegal to blackmail people.It's not illegal to get drunk.It's not illegal to drive.It's illegal to drive drunk.Some combinations of legal things are illegal.I really don't object to them banning this -- I think the harm done to the rest of the community is significant, and would not miss these people at all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518455</id>
	<title>This is not a ban!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246308480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>
It's a pretense for nationalization of gold farming companies!

(Obama is only sorry he didn't think of it first, LOL.)</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a pretense for nationalization of gold farming companies !
( Obama is only sorry he did n't think of it first , LOL .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
It's a pretense for nationalization of gold farming companies!
(Obama is only sorry he didn't think of it first, LOL.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518287</id>
	<title>Goldfarmer</title>
	<author>rlp</author>
	<datestamp>1246307760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bond: Do you expect me to talk?<br>Auric Goldfarmer: No Mr. Bond, I expect you to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... play World of Warcraft.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bond : Do you expect me to talk ? Auric Goldfarmer : No Mr. Bond , I expect you to ... play World of Warcraft .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bond: Do you expect me to talk?Auric Goldfarmer: No Mr. Bond, I expect you to ... play World of Warcraft.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518113</id>
	<title>But will they ENFORCE this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246306980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>If this is just another instance where the farmers just have to bribe the cops to look the other way, this "ban" will amount to nothing more than a PR stunt.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If this is just another instance where the farmers just have to bribe the cops to look the other way , this " ban " will amount to nothing more than a PR stunt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If this is just another instance where the farmers just have to bribe the cops to look the other way, this "ban" will amount to nothing more than a PR stunt.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519097</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>Monkeedude1212</author>
	<datestamp>1246267560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>But selling virtual Currency is nothing like prostitution - it doesn't have nearly the same reprocussions as prostitution and isn't in the same boat at all. Its not like its harming people to gold farm, and its not like they're being utterly forced to do it. Its no more a sweat shop of kids farming gold then it is a sweat shop of kids putting clothes together, but buying a T-shirt made in China is perfectly legal.</p><p>If you can show me a valid reason why selling Gold is against any moral law, except for the reason that the developer says "don't do it" - I'll jump on board. I just don't get why it should be against THE LAW. If Blizzard wants to enforce this rule by tracking down the buyers/suppliers and banning their accounts, all the power to them. But should someone be fined or sent to jail?</p><p>And the whole currency exchange board thing - is completely irrelevant. Its not like they are printing new money, its not like its phony currency. By that logic, selling video games in general would be ruining the market. (feel free to add your joke here)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>But selling virtual Currency is nothing like prostitution - it does n't have nearly the same reprocussions as prostitution and is n't in the same boat at all .
Its not like its harming people to gold farm , and its not like they 're being utterly forced to do it .
Its no more a sweat shop of kids farming gold then it is a sweat shop of kids putting clothes together , but buying a T-shirt made in China is perfectly legal.If you can show me a valid reason why selling Gold is against any moral law , except for the reason that the developer says " do n't do it " - I 'll jump on board .
I just do n't get why it should be against THE LAW .
If Blizzard wants to enforce this rule by tracking down the buyers/suppliers and banning their accounts , all the power to them .
But should someone be fined or sent to jail ? And the whole currency exchange board thing - is completely irrelevant .
Its not like they are printing new money , its not like its phony currency .
By that logic , selling video games in general would be ruining the market .
( feel free to add your joke here )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But selling virtual Currency is nothing like prostitution - it doesn't have nearly the same reprocussions as prostitution and isn't in the same boat at all.
Its not like its harming people to gold farm, and its not like they're being utterly forced to do it.
Its no more a sweat shop of kids farming gold then it is a sweat shop of kids putting clothes together, but buying a T-shirt made in China is perfectly legal.If you can show me a valid reason why selling Gold is against any moral law, except for the reason that the developer says "don't do it" - I'll jump on board.
I just don't get why it should be against THE LAW.
If Blizzard wants to enforce this rule by tracking down the buyers/suppliers and banning their accounts, all the power to them.
But should someone be fined or sent to jail?And the whole currency exchange board thing - is completely irrelevant.
Its not like they are printing new money, its not like its phony currency.
By that logic, selling video games in general would be ruining the market.
(feel free to add your joke here)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518375</id>
	<title>Re:But will they ENFORCE this?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246308060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suspect they're banning it because gold sellers tend to get the gold by stealing accounts.  Obviously it won't be easy to stop, but they can probably make it a bit harder.  Which I suppose is better than nothing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suspect they 're banning it because gold sellers tend to get the gold by stealing accounts .
Obviously it wo n't be easy to stop , but they can probably make it a bit harder .
Which I suppose is better than nothing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suspect they're banning it because gold sellers tend to get the gold by stealing accounts.
Obviously it won't be easy to stop, but they can probably make it a bit harder.
Which I suppose is better than nothing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520911</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>tignet</author>
	<datestamp>1246274700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It's not illegal to make Gold.
It's not illegal to Give Gold.
It's not illegal to Give real Money to someone else.</p><p>But somewhere along the way, selling Gold online becomes illegal.</p></div><p>
Since you're focusing on Blizzard rather than on China let me correct you -- <i>It's not illegal.</i> You will not get arrested for doing it. It's against the terms of service, the rules you abide by to be able to play the game. If you come over to my house you must take off your shoes before using the hot tub. Those are my terms of service and if you break them I have the right to kick you out of my hot-tub or off of my property. But you won't get arrested.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>If Blizzard was smart - they'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this. They've already ruined WoW four times over. Anyone who's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.</p></div><p>Grinding gold to pay for repairs isn't fun. For casual gamers that wanted to see "end-game" they often bought gold to pay for their repairs. Certain aspects were certainly more fun, but the gold-centric aspects of the game were not.<br>
<br>
Blizz did address it somewhat in the first x-pac. No more buying Golden Pearls to make that epic cloth item -- now you can simply run an instance and get the crafting material you need (as a drop) to craft your item. Now that those drops are no longer BoP the items have become much more of a commodity and the prices are reasonable due to sellers having competition in the auction house.<br>
<br>
The change from making the crafting materials for epic items BoE also means that you don't have to grind instances for materials. Making gold is very easy (doing dailies nets about 400g per day) allowing you to obtain the item any way you want.<br>
<br>
Now there are probably a few reasons Blizzard doesn't want gold selling:<br>
<br>
1. Gold farmers were always quite annoying. Killing/camping quest mobs and such. Often they would cooperate on differing factions so that one would always be close to harass you (train mobs onto you, use a scroll (or whatever tricks they have to put you into combat also) then vanish.<br>
<br>
2. They want you to play the game. To have gold allow you to buy something that it might take months to "earn" in-game is frustrating to those abiding by the ToS. A hint that perhaps the game should be more fun and less of a grind, but Blizz has an interest in keeping things balanced for those following the rules.<br>
<br>
3. There are probably legal considerations for brokering (laundering) real money relatively anonymously.<br>
<br>
4. People are giving out their account information to get powerleveled and to buy gold. Yes, to buy gold that could be sent in-game. People are getting hacked, messages posted on the forums (often pointing to malicious sites) to hack innocent people, etc.
<br>
<br>
There are plenty of boring parts of WoW that feel like a grind, which was the reason I stopped playing. However gold has lost its value. From Blizzard's perspective there simply is not a good reason for allowing it, and plenty of good reasons for not allowing it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not illegal to make Gold .
It 's not illegal to Give Gold .
It 's not illegal to Give real Money to someone else.But somewhere along the way , selling Gold online becomes illegal .
Since you 're focusing on Blizzard rather than on China let me correct you -- It 's not illegal .
You will not get arrested for doing it .
It 's against the terms of service , the rules you abide by to be able to play the game .
If you come over to my house you must take off your shoes before using the hot tub .
Those are my terms of service and if you break them I have the right to kick you out of my hot-tub or off of my property .
But you wo n't get arrested.If Blizzard was smart - they 'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this .
They 've already ruined WoW four times over .
Anyone who 's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.Grinding gold to pay for repairs is n't fun .
For casual gamers that wanted to see " end-game " they often bought gold to pay for their repairs .
Certain aspects were certainly more fun , but the gold-centric aspects of the game were not .
Blizz did address it somewhat in the first x-pac .
No more buying Golden Pearls to make that epic cloth item -- now you can simply run an instance and get the crafting material you need ( as a drop ) to craft your item .
Now that those drops are no longer BoP the items have become much more of a commodity and the prices are reasonable due to sellers having competition in the auction house .
The change from making the crafting materials for epic items BoE also means that you do n't have to grind instances for materials .
Making gold is very easy ( doing dailies nets about 400g per day ) allowing you to obtain the item any way you want .
Now there are probably a few reasons Blizzard does n't want gold selling : 1 .
Gold farmers were always quite annoying .
Killing/camping quest mobs and such .
Often they would cooperate on differing factions so that one would always be close to harass you ( train mobs onto you , use a scroll ( or whatever tricks they have to put you into combat also ) then vanish .
2. They want you to play the game .
To have gold allow you to buy something that it might take months to " earn " in-game is frustrating to those abiding by the ToS .
A hint that perhaps the game should be more fun and less of a grind , but Blizz has an interest in keeping things balanced for those following the rules .
3. There are probably legal considerations for brokering ( laundering ) real money relatively anonymously .
4. People are giving out their account information to get powerleveled and to buy gold .
Yes , to buy gold that could be sent in-game .
People are getting hacked , messages posted on the forums ( often pointing to malicious sites ) to hack innocent people , etc .
There are plenty of boring parts of WoW that feel like a grind , which was the reason I stopped playing .
However gold has lost its value .
From Blizzard 's perspective there simply is not a good reason for allowing it , and plenty of good reasons for not allowing it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not illegal to make Gold.
It's not illegal to Give Gold.
It's not illegal to Give real Money to someone else.But somewhere along the way, selling Gold online becomes illegal.
Since you're focusing on Blizzard rather than on China let me correct you -- It's not illegal.
You will not get arrested for doing it.
It's against the terms of service, the rules you abide by to be able to play the game.
If you come over to my house you must take off your shoes before using the hot tub.
Those are my terms of service and if you break them I have the right to kick you out of my hot-tub or off of my property.
But you won't get arrested.If Blizzard was smart - they'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this.
They've already ruined WoW four times over.
Anyone who's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.Grinding gold to pay for repairs isn't fun.
For casual gamers that wanted to see "end-game" they often bought gold to pay for their repairs.
Certain aspects were certainly more fun, but the gold-centric aspects of the game were not.
Blizz did address it somewhat in the first x-pac.
No more buying Golden Pearls to make that epic cloth item -- now you can simply run an instance and get the crafting material you need (as a drop) to craft your item.
Now that those drops are no longer BoP the items have become much more of a commodity and the prices are reasonable due to sellers having competition in the auction house.
The change from making the crafting materials for epic items BoE also means that you don't have to grind instances for materials.
Making gold is very easy (doing dailies nets about 400g per day) allowing you to obtain the item any way you want.
Now there are probably a few reasons Blizzard doesn't want gold selling:

1.
Gold farmers were always quite annoying.
Killing/camping quest mobs and such.
Often they would cooperate on differing factions so that one would always be close to harass you (train mobs onto you, use a scroll (or whatever tricks they have to put you into combat also) then vanish.
2. They want you to play the game.
To have gold allow you to buy something that it might take months to "earn" in-game is frustrating to those abiding by the ToS.
A hint that perhaps the game should be more fun and less of a grind, but Blizz has an interest in keeping things balanced for those following the rules.
3. There are probably legal considerations for brokering (laundering) real money relatively anonymously.
4. People are giving out their account information to get powerleveled and to buy gold.
Yes, to buy gold that could be sent in-game.
People are getting hacked, messages posted on the forums (often pointing to malicious sites) to hack innocent people, etc.
There are plenty of boring parts of WoW that feel like a grind, which was the reason I stopped playing.
However gold has lost its value.
From Blizzard's perspective there simply is not a good reason for allowing it, and plenty of good reasons for not allowing it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518697</id>
	<title>you failed maths</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246266180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ummm one billion RMB is actually one hundred and 46 million dollars as there are almost 7 yuan in one dollar.</p><p>Live rates at 2009.06.29 19:56:54 UTC<br>1,000,000,000.00 CNY = 146,318,619.51 USD<br>China Yuan Renminbi     United States Dollars<br>1 CNY = 0.146319 USD     1 USD = 6.83440 CNY</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ummm one billion RMB is actually one hundred and 46 million dollars as there are almost 7 yuan in one dollar.Live rates at 2009.06.29 19 : 56 : 54 UTC1,000,000,000.00 CNY = 146,318,619.51 USDChina Yuan Renminbi United States Dollars1 CNY = 0.146319 USD 1 USD = 6.83440 CNY</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ummm one billion RMB is actually one hundred and 46 million dollars as there are almost 7 yuan in one dollar.Live rates at 2009.06.29 19:56:54 UTC1,000,000,000.00 CNY = 146,318,619.51 USDChina Yuan Renminbi     United States Dollars1 CNY = 0.146319 USD     1 USD = 6.83440 CNY</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519863</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>\_Sprocket\_</author>
	<datestamp>1246270080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Also - the big question - why would this become illegal? People do what they want with their money. If Blizzard was smart - they'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this. They've already ruined WoW four times over. Anyone who's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.</p></div><p>I've played the game from the beginning.  And the only reason I'd even consider calling WoW more enjoyable back then is because it was new.  It's still fun today.  I don't buy in on the idea that they've ruined the game four times over.</p><p>However, I do believe they'd gut the game following your advice.  Who wants to play a game where you just buy a win?  You do, apparently.</p><p>Granted - Activision / Blizzard seems to be toying with the idea.  The collectible game loot cards, website advertisements, and Pepsi advertising campaign shows where they really want to go.  Microtransactions are likely just a matter of time.  And then you'll have your wish - WoW ruined.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also - the big question - why would this become illegal ?
People do what they want with their money .
If Blizzard was smart - they 'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this .
They 've already ruined WoW four times over .
Anyone who 's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.I 've played the game from the beginning .
And the only reason I 'd even consider calling WoW more enjoyable back then is because it was new .
It 's still fun today .
I do n't buy in on the idea that they 've ruined the game four times over.However , I do believe they 'd gut the game following your advice .
Who wants to play a game where you just buy a win ?
You do , apparently.Granted - Activision / Blizzard seems to be toying with the idea .
The collectible game loot cards , website advertisements , and Pepsi advertising campaign shows where they really want to go .
Microtransactions are likely just a matter of time .
And then you 'll have your wish - WoW ruined .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also - the big question - why would this become illegal?
People do what they want with their money.
If Blizzard was smart - they'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this.
They've already ruined WoW four times over.
Anyone who's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.I've played the game from the beginning.
And the only reason I'd even consider calling WoW more enjoyable back then is because it was new.
It's still fun today.
I don't buy in on the idea that they've ruined the game four times over.However, I do believe they'd gut the game following your advice.
Who wants to play a game where you just buy a win?
You do, apparently.Granted - Activision / Blizzard seems to be toying with the idea.
The collectible game loot cards, website advertisements, and Pepsi advertising campaign shows where they really want to go.
Microtransactions are likely just a matter of time.
And then you'll have your wish - WoW ruined.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520987</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>meerling</author>
	<datestamp>1246275060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's rather easy. It's a violation of the User Agreement for the game.<br>
<br>
Why does the game company want to stop gold selling?<br>
It's part of the nature of the ingame economy and balance. <br>
They crafted a world based around certain ideals and formulas based on time and available resources. Someone buying in game gold or items using money from another universe (aka real money) is disrupting that balance. <br>
<br>
Is that disruption visible on a personal level? Maybe, guess it depends on what you encounter. Ever fight a 20th level twink with all epic gear that's only been playing for 3 weeks? You know the scum doesn't deserve it.<br> <br>

This kind of activity isn't much different than playing a chess match with someone, and that bozo keeps slipping a fiver to a player on the next table to get extra pawns from him. <br>
Is that fair? No. <br>
Is it against the rules of the game? Yes.<br>
Do you know anybody that would do it if they could get away with it? Probably, do you know a gold buyer?</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's rather easy .
It 's a violation of the User Agreement for the game .
Why does the game company want to stop gold selling ?
It 's part of the nature of the ingame economy and balance .
They crafted a world based around certain ideals and formulas based on time and available resources .
Someone buying in game gold or items using money from another universe ( aka real money ) is disrupting that balance .
Is that disruption visible on a personal level ?
Maybe , guess it depends on what you encounter .
Ever fight a 20th level twink with all epic gear that 's only been playing for 3 weeks ?
You know the scum does n't deserve it .
This kind of activity is n't much different than playing a chess match with someone , and that bozo keeps slipping a fiver to a player on the next table to get extra pawns from him .
Is that fair ?
No . Is it against the rules of the game ?
Yes . Do you know anybody that would do it if they could get away with it ?
Probably , do you know a gold buyer ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's rather easy.
It's a violation of the User Agreement for the game.
Why does the game company want to stop gold selling?
It's part of the nature of the ingame economy and balance.
They crafted a world based around certain ideals and formulas based on time and available resources.
Someone buying in game gold or items using money from another universe (aka real money) is disrupting that balance.
Is that disruption visible on a personal level?
Maybe, guess it depends on what you encounter.
Ever fight a 20th level twink with all epic gear that's only been playing for 3 weeks?
You know the scum doesn't deserve it.
This kind of activity isn't much different than playing a chess match with someone, and that bozo keeps slipping a fiver to a player on the next table to get extra pawns from him.
Is that fair?
No. 
Is it against the rules of the game?
Yes.
Do you know anybody that would do it if they could get away with it?
Probably, do you know a gold buyer?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518169</id>
	<title>Corruption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246307220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That makes me wonder who greased who's palms to get this passed into law...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That makes me wonder who greased who 's palms to get this passed into law.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That makes me wonder who greased who's palms to get this passed into law...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519257</id>
	<title>Prohibition</title>
	<author>future assassin</author>
	<datestamp>1246268100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So the price of game gold is about to sky rocket and those who don't care about being cought doing something illegal will make tons of more money just like ilegal drugs and other things.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So the price of game gold is about to sky rocket and those who do n't care about being cought doing something illegal will make tons of more money just like ilegal drugs and other things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So the price of game gold is about to sky rocket and those who don't care about being cought doing something illegal will make tons of more money just like ilegal drugs and other things.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518323</id>
	<title>Re:There is always India</title>
	<author>Darkness404</author>
	<datestamp>1246307880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So now when I call tech support I will have to wait twice as long as I usually have to because the support people are out busy on a guild dungeon run?</htmltext>
<tokenext>So now when I call tech support I will have to wait twice as long as I usually have to because the support people are out busy on a guild dungeon run ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So now when I call tech support I will have to wait twice as long as I usually have to because the support people are out busy on a guild dungeon run?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518133</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28521531</id>
	<title>weinerdude virtual gold .. it figures</title>
	<author>noshellswill</author>
	<datestamp>1246277880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>... musta been designed by the same slabbering fool who designed the new<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.  [login]

Play the feckin-A game<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... cue the feckin-A login\_button. WTF</htmltext>
<tokenext>... musta been designed by the same slabbering fool who designed the new / .
[ login ] Play the feckin-A game ... cue the feckin-A login \ _button .
WTF</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... musta been designed by the same slabbering fool who designed the new /.
[login]

Play the feckin-A game ... cue the feckin-A login\_button.
WTF</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519979</id>
	<title>No, that is NOT what the press release says</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246270500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have not read the press release in the original Chinese.</p><p>The article here states: http://english.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/newsrelease/commonnews/200906/20090606364208.html</p><p>"The virtual currency, which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate, will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer, not real goods and services."</p><p>The article also specifically mentions a virtual currency called "QQ coins".  It does not mention MMO's or gold farming.</p><p>All this article means is that you can not use your vast WoW bank account or your EVE Online ISK play time cards to buy real goods and services in China.  It does not mean that that Chinese companies can't turn your real money into virtual currency or goods.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have not read the press release in the original Chinese.The article here states : http : //english.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/newsrelease/commonnews/200906/20090606364208.html " The virtual currency , which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate , will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer , not real goods and services .
" The article also specifically mentions a virtual currency called " QQ coins " .
It does not mention MMO 's or gold farming.All this article means is that you can not use your vast WoW bank account or your EVE Online ISK play time cards to buy real goods and services in China .
It does not mean that that Chinese companies ca n't turn your real money into virtual currency or goods .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have not read the press release in the original Chinese.The article here states: http://english.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/newsrelease/commonnews/200906/20090606364208.html"The virtual currency, which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate, will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer, not real goods and services.
"The article also specifically mentions a virtual currency called "QQ coins".
It does not mention MMO's or gold farming.All this article means is that you can not use your vast WoW bank account or your EVE Online ISK play time cards to buy real goods and services in China.
It does not mean that that Chinese companies can't turn your real money into virtual currency or goods.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28520191</id>
	<title>Did the check bounce or something?</title>
	<author>Impy the Impiuos Imp</author>
	<datestamp>1246271220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; China Bans Gold Farming</p><p>Looks like someone didn't pay their local mafia bill!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; China Bans Gold FarmingLooks like someone did n't pay their local mafia bill !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; China Bans Gold FarmingLooks like someone didn't pay their local mafia bill!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518275</id>
	<title>Farming Gold?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246307700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where do I buy gold seeds so I can start gold farming?</p><p>I've heard that money doesn't grow on trees, yet I didn't know that I could farm gold.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where do I buy gold seeds so I can start gold farming ? I 've heard that money does n't grow on trees , yet I did n't know that I could farm gold .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where do I buy gold seeds so I can start gold farming?I've heard that money doesn't grow on trees, yet I didn't know that I could farm gold.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518319</id>
	<title>Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands?</title>
	<author>dintlu</author>
	<datestamp>1246307880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>China may enjoy the tax generated from gold farming, but virtual commerce cannot be regulated and controlled like real commerce.  Ignoring the interaction between Real and Virtual economies is headstrong and foolish, so from my vantage point it appears that China is letting some other country pave the way for virtual regulation rather than saddle itself with unique problems caused by this novel form of earning money.</p><p>Think of it this way, if gold farming really is worth $1b USD per year, this is equivalent to the annual income of 400,000 Chinese citizens.  If, for whatever reason, the purchase of virtual goods is "outlawed" in a country, or the virtual world in which gold farming is performed bans the practice, or the virtual world's maintaining corporation goes out of business, that's 400,000 people without a livelihood anymore, people who are now a burden on the state.</p><p>These are pretty basic scenarios and that's just off the cuff.  I'm sure more consideration from brighter minds could produce even more coherent objections to allowing gold farming to grow as a legitimate industry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>China may enjoy the tax generated from gold farming , but virtual commerce can not be regulated and controlled like real commerce .
Ignoring the interaction between Real and Virtual economies is headstrong and foolish , so from my vantage point it appears that China is letting some other country pave the way for virtual regulation rather than saddle itself with unique problems caused by this novel form of earning money.Think of it this way , if gold farming really is worth $ 1b USD per year , this is equivalent to the annual income of 400,000 Chinese citizens .
If , for whatever reason , the purchase of virtual goods is " outlawed " in a country , or the virtual world in which gold farming is performed bans the practice , or the virtual world 's maintaining corporation goes out of business , that 's 400,000 people without a livelihood anymore , people who are now a burden on the state.These are pretty basic scenarios and that 's just off the cuff .
I 'm sure more consideration from brighter minds could produce even more coherent objections to allowing gold farming to grow as a legitimate industry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>China may enjoy the tax generated from gold farming, but virtual commerce cannot be regulated and controlled like real commerce.
Ignoring the interaction between Real and Virtual economies is headstrong and foolish, so from my vantage point it appears that China is letting some other country pave the way for virtual regulation rather than saddle itself with unique problems caused by this novel form of earning money.Think of it this way, if gold farming really is worth $1b USD per year, this is equivalent to the annual income of 400,000 Chinese citizens.
If, for whatever reason, the purchase of virtual goods is "outlawed" in a country, or the virtual world in which gold farming is performed bans the practice, or the virtual world's maintaining corporation goes out of business, that's 400,000 people without a livelihood anymore, people who are now a burden on the state.These are pretty basic scenarios and that's just off the cuff.
I'm sure more consideration from brighter minds could produce even more coherent objections to allowing gold farming to grow as a legitimate industry.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28517903</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28549801</id>
	<title>China Has Not Banned Gold Farming</title>
	<author>Torsino</author>
	<datestamp>1246443120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The interpretation that the new regulation is about gold farming has spread like wildfire. Unfortunately, it is not correct &#226;" the regulation is about the Chinese government staying in control of currency movements within the country; and probably more about gambling than money laundering. It&#226;(TM)s not targetted at gold farming, and unlikely to have much of an impact on gold farming.

More details at the ICTs for Development blog: <a href="http://ict4dblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/china-bans-gold-farming-er-but-in-fact-it-hasnt/" title="wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://ict4dblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/china-bans-gold-farming-er-but-in-fact-it-hasnt/</a> [wordpress.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>The interpretation that the new regulation is about gold farming has spread like wildfire .
Unfortunately , it is not correct   " the regulation is about the Chinese government staying in control of currency movements within the country ; and probably more about gambling than money laundering .
It   ( TM ) s not targetted at gold farming , and unlikely to have much of an impact on gold farming .
More details at the ICTs for Development blog : http : //ict4dblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/china-bans-gold-farming-er-but-in-fact-it-hasnt/ [ wordpress.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The interpretation that the new regulation is about gold farming has spread like wildfire.
Unfortunately, it is not correct â" the regulation is about the Chinese government staying in control of currency movements within the country; and probably more about gambling than money laundering.
Itâ(TM)s not targetted at gold farming, and unlikely to have much of an impact on gold farming.
More details at the ICTs for Development blog: http://ict4dblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/china-bans-gold-farming-er-but-in-fact-it-hasnt/ [wordpress.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28532931</id>
	<title>Uhh..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246391640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Chinese government has declared a<br>ban on the sale of virtual goods for real currency."</p><p>I know software such as MS Office is a "virtual good" so what are they going to use to buy that? Will they have to work in the MMO's for online gold to buy software now?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Chinese government has declared aban on the sale of virtual goods for real currency .
" I know software such as MS Office is a " virtual good " so what are they going to use to buy that ?
Will they have to work in the MMO 's for online gold to buy software now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Chinese government has declared aban on the sale of virtual goods for real currency.
"I know software such as MS Office is a "virtual good" so what are they going to use to buy that?
Will they have to work in the MMO's for online gold to buy software now?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28537931</id>
	<title>This seems exploitable</title>
	<author>ipooptoomuch</author>
	<datestamp>1246376340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>1. Buy large amounts of gold that is going to be on sale because it might be banned soon.<br>
2. Wait for the ban to take place and prices to skyrocket due to 80-85 percent of the gold supply being removed.<br>
3. ??????<br>
4. PROFIT!</htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
Buy large amounts of gold that is going to be on sale because it might be banned soon .
2. Wait for the ban to take place and prices to skyrocket due to 80-85 percent of the gold supply being removed .
3. ? ? ? ? ? ?
4. PROFIT !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
Buy large amounts of gold that is going to be on sale because it might be banned soon.
2. Wait for the ban to take place and prices to skyrocket due to 80-85 percent of the gold supply being removed.
3. ??????
4. PROFIT!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518309</id>
	<title>so we are so lazy now</title>
	<author>stabiesoft</author>
	<datestamp>1246307880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>we have to pay the chinese to have fun for us now? What's next, do we pay them to have sex for us, eat for us, pee for us...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>we have to pay the chinese to have fun for us now ?
What 's next , do we pay them to have sex for us , eat for us , pee for us.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>we have to pay the chinese to have fun for us now?
What's next, do we pay them to have sex for us, eat for us, pee for us...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518871</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>Nathrael</author>
	<datestamp>1246266660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If Blizzard was nice, they'd just remove the necessity to farm gold and let players actually enjoy the game.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If Blizzard was nice , they 'd just remove the necessity to farm gold and let players actually enjoy the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If Blizzard was nice, they'd just remove the necessity to farm gold and let players actually enjoy the game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518425</id>
	<title>Nothing to do with Gaming</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246308300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In full disclosure: I work in the financial industry currently.</p><p>This ban has nothing to do with gaming, gambling, or local economy.</p><p>This is likely a direct response to MASSIVE money laundering.</p><p>Joe has $100,000 worth of illicit cash.<br>Joe strikes a deal to buy $100,000 worth of virtual currency in WoW. Joe smuggles the money. (Many times Joe can even hire the kid down the street and pay him cash...)</p><p>Joe turns around and over several months sells the gold BACK to the gold farmers and claims the sales as legitimate income. Selling it at a 50\% loss he can convert $100,000 into $50,000 of legitimate funds. Even more so when he acts as a virtual broker (IGN anyone?).</p><p>While this is a simplified scenario but we are talking BILLIONS of dollars a year are now going through these kinds of channels.</p><p>I've seen locally here in the US $300,000 attempts and laundering money this way (through a combination of FF Online, LOTRO, and Maple).</p><p>While it is getting easier to deal with this now that the gaming companies are willing to share some data I can only imagine how hard is must be in Asian markets where channeling cash to chinese gold farmers is easier with the shorter phsyical distances. Oddly though, in my experience, I have seen more Korean and Indian gold farmers then Chinese.</p><p>Never had a problem with gold farmers, never will, but I have serious doubts that this ban has anything to do with gameplay.</p><p>I think this is in response to the forged bonds that were intercepted in Italy. They are worried about organized crime shifting large sums of money (which require laundering) through the virtual economy.</p><p>If I am an evil overlord and I have to get 4 billion to my agents around the world the easiest thing to do is buy a billion dollars worth of WoW gold, have all my agents log in with characters. Divvy up the gold then have them sell it off locally or back to the gold farmers at a loss.</p><p>No quicker way to distributed that much real world money then through a network of games.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In full disclosure : I work in the financial industry currently.This ban has nothing to do with gaming , gambling , or local economy.This is likely a direct response to MASSIVE money laundering.Joe has $ 100,000 worth of illicit cash.Joe strikes a deal to buy $ 100,000 worth of virtual currency in WoW .
Joe smuggles the money .
( Many times Joe can even hire the kid down the street and pay him cash... ) Joe turns around and over several months sells the gold BACK to the gold farmers and claims the sales as legitimate income .
Selling it at a 50 \ % loss he can convert $ 100,000 into $ 50,000 of legitimate funds .
Even more so when he acts as a virtual broker ( IGN anyone ?
) .While this is a simplified scenario but we are talking BILLIONS of dollars a year are now going through these kinds of channels.I 've seen locally here in the US $ 300,000 attempts and laundering money this way ( through a combination of FF Online , LOTRO , and Maple ) .While it is getting easier to deal with this now that the gaming companies are willing to share some data I can only imagine how hard is must be in Asian markets where channeling cash to chinese gold farmers is easier with the shorter phsyical distances .
Oddly though , in my experience , I have seen more Korean and Indian gold farmers then Chinese.Never had a problem with gold farmers , never will , but I have serious doubts that this ban has anything to do with gameplay.I think this is in response to the forged bonds that were intercepted in Italy .
They are worried about organized crime shifting large sums of money ( which require laundering ) through the virtual economy.If I am an evil overlord and I have to get 4 billion to my agents around the world the easiest thing to do is buy a billion dollars worth of WoW gold , have all my agents log in with characters .
Divvy up the gold then have them sell it off locally or back to the gold farmers at a loss.No quicker way to distributed that much real world money then through a network of games .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In full disclosure: I work in the financial industry currently.This ban has nothing to do with gaming, gambling, or local economy.This is likely a direct response to MASSIVE money laundering.Joe has $100,000 worth of illicit cash.Joe strikes a deal to buy $100,000 worth of virtual currency in WoW.
Joe smuggles the money.
(Many times Joe can even hire the kid down the street and pay him cash...)Joe turns around and over several months sells the gold BACK to the gold farmers and claims the sales as legitimate income.
Selling it at a 50\% loss he can convert $100,000 into $50,000 of legitimate funds.
Even more so when he acts as a virtual broker (IGN anyone?
).While this is a simplified scenario but we are talking BILLIONS of dollars a year are now going through these kinds of channels.I've seen locally here in the US $300,000 attempts and laundering money this way (through a combination of FF Online, LOTRO, and Maple).While it is getting easier to deal with this now that the gaming companies are willing to share some data I can only imagine how hard is must be in Asian markets where channeling cash to chinese gold farmers is easier with the shorter phsyical distances.
Oddly though, in my experience, I have seen more Korean and Indian gold farmers then Chinese.Never had a problem with gold farmers, never will, but I have serious doubts that this ban has anything to do with gameplay.I think this is in response to the forged bonds that were intercepted in Italy.
They are worried about organized crime shifting large sums of money (which require laundering) through the virtual economy.If I am an evil overlord and I have to get 4 billion to my agents around the world the easiest thing to do is buy a billion dollars worth of WoW gold, have all my agents log in with characters.
Divvy up the gold then have them sell it off locally or back to the gold farmers at a loss.No quicker way to distributed that much real world money then through a network of games.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519711</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>MeanderingMind</author>
	<datestamp>1246269600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Gold farmers also increase the amount of subscriptions that the game has, more money going into the developers... I don't get why they fight it so much.</p><p>To me - its the worst business logic I've ever come across, and games that have these microtransactions already involved will be the ones who come out on top.</p></div><p>Smart businesses don't think in raw, bulk numbers like that. Not all subscriptions are created equally.</p><p>Consider why people get banned from the game at all; it usually involves something that negatively impacts the play experience of other players. Sure, Blizzard loses $15/mo if they ban Player A, but they stand to lose many times that amount if they let Player A run around being a jerk to Players B through Z. One account termination due to the actions of Player A costs the company the value of his subscription.</p><p>The same essentially applies to gold farmers, in a more indirect way. Early in WoW's history gold farmers impacted other players simply through economic inflation and crowding out resources. Some resources were almost impossible to farm for yourself because of the ubiquitous presence of farmers. Blizzard banned these farmers because of these negative impacts alone, and the money it cost them to do so was likely saved in preserved subscriptions and reduced support costs.</p><p>This argument is far more pointed now. Gold farmers still inflate the economy, only they do so through ill-gotten gains obtained by hacking accounts. The support costs are many times greater than before, and are far more likely to result in account termination. Losing one's account, even if you can get it restored, is the single most frustrating event that can happen to a player in a game where progression is a foundational goal.</p><p>So Blizzard is saving a lot of money by working to prevent gold farming.</p><blockquote><div><p>Also - the big question - why would this become illegal? People do what they want with their money. If Blizzard was smart - they'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this. They've already ruined WoW four times over. Anyone who's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.</p></div></blockquote><p>It's disingenuous to claim that "anyone" from a category designed to exclude people who might disagree with you will agree with you. It's also demonstrably false, as I fit into your category and find that the expansions and patches have markedly improved the game.</p><p>Your second disingenuous argument suggests that having already ruined something, there's no reason to avoid ruining it further. This is frankly silly, as the mistakes of Star Wars Galaxies can attest.</p><p>More importantly, it's impossible to price match a black market. I've tried several MMOs which allowed RMT transactions, and was not surprised to find that even there the black market currency farming/selling still thrives. Even if Blizzard/other companies offer their currencies cheap, someone will always be ready to offer it cheaper.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Gold farmers also increase the amount of subscriptions that the game has , more money going into the developers... I do n't get why they fight it so much.To me - its the worst business logic I 've ever come across , and games that have these microtransactions already involved will be the ones who come out on top.Smart businesses do n't think in raw , bulk numbers like that .
Not all subscriptions are created equally.Consider why people get banned from the game at all ; it usually involves something that negatively impacts the play experience of other players .
Sure , Blizzard loses $ 15/mo if they ban Player A , but they stand to lose many times that amount if they let Player A run around being a jerk to Players B through Z. One account termination due to the actions of Player A costs the company the value of his subscription.The same essentially applies to gold farmers , in a more indirect way .
Early in WoW 's history gold farmers impacted other players simply through economic inflation and crowding out resources .
Some resources were almost impossible to farm for yourself because of the ubiquitous presence of farmers .
Blizzard banned these farmers because of these negative impacts alone , and the money it cost them to do so was likely saved in preserved subscriptions and reduced support costs.This argument is far more pointed now .
Gold farmers still inflate the economy , only they do so through ill-gotten gains obtained by hacking accounts .
The support costs are many times greater than before , and are far more likely to result in account termination .
Losing one 's account , even if you can get it restored , is the single most frustrating event that can happen to a player in a game where progression is a foundational goal.So Blizzard is saving a lot of money by working to prevent gold farming.Also - the big question - why would this become illegal ?
People do what they want with their money .
If Blizzard was smart - they 'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this .
They 've already ruined WoW four times over .
Anyone who 's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.It 's disingenuous to claim that " anyone " from a category designed to exclude people who might disagree with you will agree with you .
It 's also demonstrably false , as I fit into your category and find that the expansions and patches have markedly improved the game.Your second disingenuous argument suggests that having already ruined something , there 's no reason to avoid ruining it further .
This is frankly silly , as the mistakes of Star Wars Galaxies can attest.More importantly , it 's impossible to price match a black market .
I 've tried several MMOs which allowed RMT transactions , and was not surprised to find that even there the black market currency farming/selling still thrives .
Even if Blizzard/other companies offer their currencies cheap , someone will always be ready to offer it cheaper .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Gold farmers also increase the amount of subscriptions that the game has, more money going into the developers... I don't get why they fight it so much.To me - its the worst business logic I've ever come across, and games that have these microtransactions already involved will be the ones who come out on top.Smart businesses don't think in raw, bulk numbers like that.
Not all subscriptions are created equally.Consider why people get banned from the game at all; it usually involves something that negatively impacts the play experience of other players.
Sure, Blizzard loses $15/mo if they ban Player A, but they stand to lose many times that amount if they let Player A run around being a jerk to Players B through Z. One account termination due to the actions of Player A costs the company the value of his subscription.The same essentially applies to gold farmers, in a more indirect way.
Early in WoW's history gold farmers impacted other players simply through economic inflation and crowding out resources.
Some resources were almost impossible to farm for yourself because of the ubiquitous presence of farmers.
Blizzard banned these farmers because of these negative impacts alone, and the money it cost them to do so was likely saved in preserved subscriptions and reduced support costs.This argument is far more pointed now.
Gold farmers still inflate the economy, only they do so through ill-gotten gains obtained by hacking accounts.
The support costs are many times greater than before, and are far more likely to result in account termination.
Losing one's account, even if you can get it restored, is the single most frustrating event that can happen to a player in a game where progression is a foundational goal.So Blizzard is saving a lot of money by working to prevent gold farming.Also - the big question - why would this become illegal?
People do what they want with their money.
If Blizzard was smart - they'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this.
They've already ruined WoW four times over.
Anyone who's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.It's disingenuous to claim that "anyone" from a category designed to exclude people who might disagree with you will agree with you.
It's also demonstrably false, as I fit into your category and find that the expansions and patches have markedly improved the game.Your second disingenuous argument suggests that having already ruined something, there's no reason to avoid ruining it further.
This is frankly silly, as the mistakes of Star Wars Galaxies can attest.More importantly, it's impossible to price match a black market.
I've tried several MMOs which allowed RMT transactions, and was not surprised to find that even there the black market currency farming/selling still thrives.
Even if Blizzard/other companies offer their currencies cheap, someone will always be ready to offer it cheaper.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518367</id>
	<title>Re:Why? I don't get it...</title>
	<author>Chad Birch</author>
	<datestamp>1246308060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's not illegal to have sex.<br>
It's not illegal to give money to someone else.<br>
<br>
It's not illegal to drive.<br>
It's not illegal to drink.<br>
<br>
Things aren't always just the sum of their parts.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not illegal to have sex .
It 's not illegal to give money to someone else .
It 's not illegal to drive .
It 's not illegal to drink .
Things are n't always just the sum of their parts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not illegal to have sex.
It's not illegal to give money to someone else.
It's not illegal to drive.
It's not illegal to drink.
Things aren't always just the sum of their parts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519497</id>
	<title>Re:so we are so lazy now</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246268880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't wait to get my dedicated Chinese wang holder, I do so hate getting my hand smelling like wang.</p><p>Hey, as an added bonus, if his name is Wang, he could be my wang holding Wang!</p><p>Dear God, I am going to hell aren't I?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't wait to get my dedicated Chinese wang holder , I do so hate getting my hand smelling like wang.Hey , as an added bonus , if his name is Wang , he could be my wang holding Wang ! Dear God , I am going to hell are n't I ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't wait to get my dedicated Chinese wang holder, I do so hate getting my hand smelling like wang.Hey, as an added bonus, if his name is Wang, he could be my wang holding Wang!Dear God, I am going to hell aren't I?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518309</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28553197</id>
	<title>The rationale behind IMO...</title>
	<author>adlist</author>
	<datestamp>1246461900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The reasons behind the ban is simple: China government cannot or have difficulties to collect tax from these virtual transactions. Regulation is not easy to have control over them. So, ban...</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reasons behind the ban is simple : China government can not or have difficulties to collect tax from these virtual transactions .
Regulation is not easy to have control over them .
So , ban.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reasons behind the ban is simple: China government cannot or have difficulties to collect tax from these virtual transactions.
Regulation is not easy to have control over them.
So, ban...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28522365</id>
	<title>I totally agree</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246282140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For once China has done a good thing. I totaly agree with this.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For once China has done a good thing .
I totaly agree with this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For once China has done a good thing.
I totaly agree with this.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28524699</id>
	<title>Re:Gold farming is the fault of MMORPG companies</title>
	<author>CTachyon</author>
	<datestamp>1246301220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm sorry, but no.  <a href="http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Deathwing&amp;n=Bandanu" title="wowarmory.com">My main</a> [wowarmory.com] just passed the 9400 gold threshold today, and will probably pass 10,000 in the next week or so.  The secret to my success?  Daily quests, and a little bit of auctioning.  Epic flying is a sizable chunk of gold, but it's not particularly difficult in the post-BC world, and even before I had it I was making due quite nicely with a 60\% flying speed mount (including the World Explorer achievement).  Crazily enough, I did all this entirely solo, without playing through even a single Outland or Northrend dungeon.</p><p>Bad analogy time.  Paying someone else to play WoW for you is akin to paying someone else to play your half of a game of chess, knowing that they'll just be running a copy of Deep Blue and moving the pieces like a good little monkey.  Then, at the very end, they give your chess game back to you, just in time for you to make the actual winning checkmate in person.  Chess is a mental battle of tactics and wills; if you pay someone else to play chess for you, you can't honestly call yourself a chess player.  WoW is similarly a mental battle, but this time focused on patience and mastery of patterns, and pitted against the game's developers rather than a single opponent.  The epic flying, the Traveler's Tundra Mammoth, and all the other myriad status symbols are the developers' way of saying "congratulations, you win", meant to give you the same spark of victory that chess gives you when you call checkmate after a grueling session.  To call checkmate against an opponent you didn't beat, or to buy epic flying with gold you didn't earn, is straight up dishonesty &mdash; borne from impatience and an unearned sense of entitlement.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm sorry , but no .
My main [ wowarmory.com ] just passed the 9400 gold threshold today , and will probably pass 10,000 in the next week or so .
The secret to my success ?
Daily quests , and a little bit of auctioning .
Epic flying is a sizable chunk of gold , but it 's not particularly difficult in the post-BC world , and even before I had it I was making due quite nicely with a 60 \ % flying speed mount ( including the World Explorer achievement ) .
Crazily enough , I did all this entirely solo , without playing through even a single Outland or Northrend dungeon.Bad analogy time .
Paying someone else to play WoW for you is akin to paying someone else to play your half of a game of chess , knowing that they 'll just be running a copy of Deep Blue and moving the pieces like a good little monkey .
Then , at the very end , they give your chess game back to you , just in time for you to make the actual winning checkmate in person .
Chess is a mental battle of tactics and wills ; if you pay someone else to play chess for you , you ca n't honestly call yourself a chess player .
WoW is similarly a mental battle , but this time focused on patience and mastery of patterns , and pitted against the game 's developers rather than a single opponent .
The epic flying , the Traveler 's Tundra Mammoth , and all the other myriad status symbols are the developers ' way of saying " congratulations , you win " , meant to give you the same spark of victory that chess gives you when you call checkmate after a grueling session .
To call checkmate against an opponent you did n't beat , or to buy epic flying with gold you did n't earn , is straight up dishonesty    borne from impatience and an unearned sense of entitlement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm sorry, but no.
My main [wowarmory.com] just passed the 9400 gold threshold today, and will probably pass 10,000 in the next week or so.
The secret to my success?
Daily quests, and a little bit of auctioning.
Epic flying is a sizable chunk of gold, but it's not particularly difficult in the post-BC world, and even before I had it I was making due quite nicely with a 60\% flying speed mount (including the World Explorer achievement).
Crazily enough, I did all this entirely solo, without playing through even a single Outland or Northrend dungeon.Bad analogy time.
Paying someone else to play WoW for you is akin to paying someone else to play your half of a game of chess, knowing that they'll just be running a copy of Deep Blue and moving the pieces like a good little monkey.
Then, at the very end, they give your chess game back to you, just in time for you to make the actual winning checkmate in person.
Chess is a mental battle of tactics and wills; if you pay someone else to play chess for you, you can't honestly call yourself a chess player.
WoW is similarly a mental battle, but this time focused on patience and mastery of patterns, and pitted against the game's developers rather than a single opponent.
The epic flying, the Traveler's Tundra Mammoth, and all the other myriad status symbols are the developers' way of saying "congratulations, you win", meant to give you the same spark of victory that chess gives you when you call checkmate after a grueling session.
To call checkmate against an opponent you didn't beat, or to buy epic flying with gold you didn't earn, is straight up dishonesty — borne from impatience and an unearned sense of entitlement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519113</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28517997</id>
	<title>Cash4WOWGold</title>
	<author>Blixinator</author>
	<datestamp>1246306500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What will this do to the gold market? Will the guy on the Cash4Gold commercials become even more annoying and have larger graphs to show just how much he profits from buying gold from people at prices well below market price then selling it when the prices go up?</htmltext>
<tokenext>What will this do to the gold market ?
Will the guy on the Cash4Gold commercials become even more annoying and have larger graphs to show just how much he profits from buying gold from people at prices well below market price then selling it when the prices go up ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What will this do to the gold market?
Will the guy on the Cash4Gold commercials become even more annoying and have larger graphs to show just how much he profits from buying gold from people at prices well below market price then selling it when the prices go up?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518065</id>
	<title>Bit more worrying...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246306800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>China is also moving away from the <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/usDollarRpt/idUSLS14673020090628" title="reuters.com" rel="nofollow">sale of real goods for virtual currency</a> [reuters.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>China is also moving away from the sale of real goods for virtual currency [ reuters.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>China is also moving away from the sale of real goods for virtual currency [reuters.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28519093</id>
	<title>Re:so we are so lazy now</title>
	<author>dave562</author>
	<datestamp>1246267560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We pay the Chinese to do the grunt work so that we can focus on having fun.  I bought gold once from a WoW gold farmer. I figured that the real life time I would have to spend to get an item in the game was worth more to me than the $50 it would cost me to pay a Chinese guy for the gold to buy the item.  It was $50 well spent and it greatly increased the pleasure I got from playing the game.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We pay the Chinese to do the grunt work so that we can focus on having fun .
I bought gold once from a WoW gold farmer .
I figured that the real life time I would have to spend to get an item in the game was worth more to me than the $ 50 it would cost me to pay a Chinese guy for the gold to buy the item .
It was $ 50 well spent and it greatly increased the pleasure I got from playing the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We pay the Chinese to do the grunt work so that we can focus on having fun.
I bought gold once from a WoW gold farmer.
I figured that the real life time I would have to spend to get an item in the game was worth more to me than the $50 it would cost me to pay a Chinese guy for the gold to buy the item.
It was $50 well spent and it greatly increased the pleasure I got from playing the game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_29_1839205.28518309</parent>
</comment>
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