<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_28_1557215</id>
	<title>Study Claims Point-of-Sale Activation Could Generate Billions In Revenue</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1246207260000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Late last year we discussed news that the Entertainment Merchants Association was pondering a plan to develop technology that <a href="//games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/02/0416231&amp;tid=98">requires games and movies to be "activated"</a> when they are sold at retail outlets, primarily to reduce theft and piracy. Now, the EMA claims a study they commissioned has indicated that employing such a system for video games, DVDs, and Blu-ray products would <a href="http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/benefit-denial-tech-could-increase-disc-sales-by-USD6-billion">generate an additional $6 billion in revenues</a> each year. Critics of the idea are <a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506\_3-10270870-17.html">skeptical about the numbers</a>, pointing out that the majority of game piracy comes from downloading PC games, which this plan won't even affect. There are other problems as well: "In order for benefit denial to work, the EMA would presumably require the three major consoles to have some sort of activation verification function to ensure that games were legally purchased. It will be interesting to see if Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft agree to that. There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider. After some gamers complete a title, they sell it back to the retailer. How will benefit denial handle that situation?"</htmltext>
<tokenext>Late last year we discussed news that the Entertainment Merchants Association was pondering a plan to develop technology that requires games and movies to be " activated " when they are sold at retail outlets , primarily to reduce theft and piracy .
Now , the EMA claims a study they commissioned has indicated that employing such a system for video games , DVDs , and Blu-ray products would generate an additional $ 6 billion in revenues each year .
Critics of the idea are skeptical about the numbers , pointing out that the majority of game piracy comes from downloading PC games , which this plan wo n't even affect .
There are other problems as well : " In order for benefit denial to work , the EMA would presumably require the three major consoles to have some sort of activation verification function to ensure that games were legally purchased .
It will be interesting to see if Nintendo , Sony , and Microsoft agree to that .
There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider .
After some gamers complete a title , they sell it back to the retailer .
How will benefit denial handle that situation ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Late last year we discussed news that the Entertainment Merchants Association was pondering a plan to develop technology that requires games and movies to be "activated" when they are sold at retail outlets, primarily to reduce theft and piracy.
Now, the EMA claims a study they commissioned has indicated that employing such a system for video games, DVDs, and Blu-ray products would generate an additional $6 billion in revenues each year.
Critics of the idea are skeptical about the numbers, pointing out that the majority of game piracy comes from downloading PC games, which this plan won't even affect.
There are other problems as well: "In order for benefit denial to work, the EMA would presumably require the three major consoles to have some sort of activation verification function to ensure that games were legally purchased.
It will be interesting to see if Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft agree to that.
There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider.
After some gamers complete a title, they sell it back to the retailer.
How will benefit denial handle that situation?
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505007</id>
	<title>Re:not about piracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246212540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You are probably correct.</p><p>The revenue lost to game aftermarket is huge.</p><p>For example, I bought a sleep numbers bed because I like to rock my girlfriend's tight pussy on a bed you could bounce a quarter off of, but I prefer to sleep on a very soft, downy mattress once I'm done with the bitch. Problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You are probably correct.The revenue lost to game aftermarket is huge.For example , I bought a sleep numbers bed because I like to rock my girlfriend 's tight pussy on a bed you could bounce a quarter off of , but I prefer to sleep on a very soft , downy mattress once I 'm done with the bitch .
Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are probably correct.The revenue lost to game aftermarket is huge.For example, I bought a sleep numbers bed because I like to rock my girlfriend's tight pussy on a bed you could bounce a quarter off of, but I prefer to sleep on a very soft, downy mattress once I'm done with the bitch.
Problem solved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28509881</id>
	<title>This is about the DRM vendors.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246210980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think this is about a problem with piracy. Or stopping used games sales. This is about digital rights vendors trying to sell a product. They need studies like this to make their pitch to software developers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think this is about a problem with piracy .
Or stopping used games sales .
This is about digital rights vendors trying to sell a product .
They need studies like this to make their pitch to software developers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think this is about a problem with piracy.
Or stopping used games sales.
This is about digital rights vendors trying to sell a product.
They need studies like this to make their pitch to software developers.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28507227</id>
	<title>Re:The value of things</title>
	<author>Kaboom13</author>
	<datestamp>1246186020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is some factors into the price difference between new an used cars other then perception.  A diamond, after, does not age, any defects are readily visible to a jeweler that knows what he is doing etc.  A car has hundreds of different factors that affect it's condition and life.  A new car is in a more or less known state ("lemons" that are defective from the factory aside).  A used car, even if it is only just a few years old, has an unknown history.  How well the car was maintained by the previous owner, any possible accidents that could have caused hidden damage, a long history of service problems, etc.  There's a lack of information.  What you do know, is the previous owner sold the car for a reason.  That reason could be mundane, like they got a raise or new position and wanted a better car, they moved or can no longer afford it, or it could be because the car is a piece of shit and they are tired of it.  Even a skilled mechanic cannot fully access the state of the car without a lot of expensive labor costs.  Information has value, and there is more information about the new car then the used car, so that in part accounts for the difference in value when you drive it off the lot.  There are of course other factors, a big one being the "cool" factor, the fact noone else's smelly butt has been in your drivers seat, warranties, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is some factors into the price difference between new an used cars other then perception .
A diamond , after , does not age , any defects are readily visible to a jeweler that knows what he is doing etc .
A car has hundreds of different factors that affect it 's condition and life .
A new car is in a more or less known state ( " lemons " that are defective from the factory aside ) .
A used car , even if it is only just a few years old , has an unknown history .
How well the car was maintained by the previous owner , any possible accidents that could have caused hidden damage , a long history of service problems , etc .
There 's a lack of information .
What you do know , is the previous owner sold the car for a reason .
That reason could be mundane , like they got a raise or new position and wanted a better car , they moved or can no longer afford it , or it could be because the car is a piece of shit and they are tired of it .
Even a skilled mechanic can not fully access the state of the car without a lot of expensive labor costs .
Information has value , and there is more information about the new car then the used car , so that in part accounts for the difference in value when you drive it off the lot .
There are of course other factors , a big one being the " cool " factor , the fact noone else 's smelly butt has been in your drivers seat , warranties , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is some factors into the price difference between new an used cars other then perception.
A diamond, after, does not age, any defects are readily visible to a jeweler that knows what he is doing etc.
A car has hundreds of different factors that affect it's condition and life.
A new car is in a more or less known state ("lemons" that are defective from the factory aside).
A used car, even if it is only just a few years old, has an unknown history.
How well the car was maintained by the previous owner, any possible accidents that could have caused hidden damage, a long history of service problems, etc.
There's a lack of information.
What you do know, is the previous owner sold the car for a reason.
That reason could be mundane, like they got a raise or new position and wanted a better car, they moved or can no longer afford it, or it could be because the car is a piece of shit and they are tired of it.
Even a skilled mechanic cannot fully access the state of the car without a lot of expensive labor costs.
Information has value, and there is more information about the new car then the used car, so that in part accounts for the difference in value when you drive it off the lot.
There are of course other factors, a big one being the "cool" factor, the fact noone else's smelly butt has been in your drivers seat, warranties, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505339</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28508785</id>
	<title>Re:not about piracy</title>
	<author>cgenman</author>
	<datestamp>1246199940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sony (PSP Go), Nintendo (DSi), and Microsoft (360 downloads of retail games) are all working on download services for their AAA titles. Considering the margins they make on downloaded titles, I'd be surprised if they weren't about stopping all retail game sales.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sony ( PSP Go ) , Nintendo ( DSi ) , and Microsoft ( 360 downloads of retail games ) are all working on download services for their AAA titles .
Considering the margins they make on downloaded titles , I 'd be surprised if they were n't about stopping all retail game sales .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sony (PSP Go), Nintendo (DSi), and Microsoft (360 downloads of retail games) are all working on download services for their AAA titles.
Considering the margins they make on downloaded titles, I'd be surprised if they weren't about stopping all retail game sales.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28509003</id>
	<title>Re:It's about killing the Pre-release</title>
	<author>mochan\_s</author>
	<datestamp>1246201980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Basicly for years the carefully craftd release scheduals and marketing plans of huge media companies have been screwed up by a bunch of teenagers having an e-penis waving contest.</p></div></blockquote><p>The solution has been simple.

</p><p>XBox has an e-penis system called achievements. If you play a game before a release date, you can get banned and your e-penis tucked away by Microsoft. So, even if people download the data before the pre-release date, they don't dare to play it before the release date which can coincide with the marketing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Basicly for years the carefully craftd release scheduals and marketing plans of huge media companies have been screwed up by a bunch of teenagers having an e-penis waving contest.The solution has been simple .
XBox has an e-penis system called achievements .
If you play a game before a release date , you can get banned and your e-penis tucked away by Microsoft .
So , even if people download the data before the pre-release date , they do n't dare to play it before the release date which can coincide with the marketing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Basicly for years the carefully craftd release scheduals and marketing plans of huge media companies have been screwed up by a bunch of teenagers having an e-penis waving contest.The solution has been simple.
XBox has an e-penis system called achievements.
If you play a game before a release date, you can get banned and your e-penis tucked away by Microsoft.
So, even if people download the data before the pre-release date, they don't dare to play it before the release date which can coincide with the marketing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505507</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504845</id>
	<title>they assume</title>
	<author>branboom</author>
	<datestamp>1246211460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>We would start buying the games again ahahha.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We would start buying the games again ahahha .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We would start buying the games again ahahha.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28510909</id>
	<title>In related news ...</title>
	<author>dogeatery</author>
	<datestamp>1246306620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The guys over at Operation Sports will have roster updates for NFL 2k5 on the old XBox and PS2 consoles ready to go by September.

<a href="http://www.operationsports.com/forums/espn-nfl-2k5-football/" title="operationsports.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.operationsports.com/forums/espn-nfl-2k5-football/</a> [operationsports.com]

Another year without having to buy Madden!</htmltext>
<tokenext>The guys over at Operation Sports will have roster updates for NFL 2k5 on the old XBox and PS2 consoles ready to go by September .
http : //www.operationsports.com/forums/espn-nfl-2k5-football/ [ operationsports.com ] Another year without having to buy Madden !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The guys over at Operation Sports will have roster updates for NFL 2k5 on the old XBox and PS2 consoles ready to go by September.
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/espn-nfl-2k5-football/ [operationsports.com]

Another year without having to buy Madden!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28513965</id>
	<title>Re:Just nonsense</title>
	<author>evilkasper</author>
	<datestamp>1246290060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Tactics like these would encourage me to pirate games, or give them up all together.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Tactics like these would encourage me to pirate games , or give them up all together .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Tactics like these would encourage me to pirate games, or give them up all together.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504821</id>
	<title>Silly question.</title>
	<author>schon</author>
	<datestamp>1246211280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider. After some gamers complete a title, they sell it back to the retailer. How will benefit denial handle that situation?</p></div><p>Simple: it will not be allowed.</p><p>You *really* think that they'd all the used market to exist if they had a choice?</p><p>Read <a href="http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/10/08/secondhand-games-worse-than-piracy/" title="bruceongames.com">this</a> [bruceongames.com] for an idea of what the game publishers think about the used market.  (Yes, the guy is an obvious shill.)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider .
After some gamers complete a title , they sell it back to the retailer .
How will benefit denial handle that situation ? Simple : it will not be allowed.You * really * think that they 'd all the used market to exist if they had a choice ? Read this [ bruceongames.com ] for an idea of what the game publishers think about the used market .
( Yes , the guy is an obvious shill .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider.
After some gamers complete a title, they sell it back to the retailer.
How will benefit denial handle that situation?Simple: it will not be allowed.You *really* think that they'd all the used market to exist if they had a choice?Read this [bruceongames.com] for an idea of what the game publishers think about the used market.
(Yes, the guy is an obvious shill.
)
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28509571</id>
	<title>Re:The value of things</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246208040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The reason that used cars sell for less is economics: On the average, people preferentially sell cars that are causing problems, so a used car is more likely to have problems than an average car of that age.  The market takes that into consideration.  This is why an almost new car sells for so much less than a new car: the mileage isn't that different, but the fact that the used car is on the market at all indicates a greater likelihood of having problems.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason that used cars sell for less is economics : On the average , people preferentially sell cars that are causing problems , so a used car is more likely to have problems than an average car of that age .
The market takes that into consideration .
This is why an almost new car sells for so much less than a new car : the mileage is n't that different , but the fact that the used car is on the market at all indicates a greater likelihood of having problems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason that used cars sell for less is economics: On the average, people preferentially sell cars that are causing problems, so a used car is more likely to have problems than an average car of that age.
The market takes that into consideration.
This is why an almost new car sells for so much less than a new car: the mileage isn't that different, but the fact that the used car is on the market at all indicates a greater likelihood of having problems.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505339</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504835</id>
	<title>Crazy..</title>
	<author>spire3661</author>
	<datestamp>1246211340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>These people really are insane. They wont be happy until they can charge us every time an IP protected thought crosses our brain. The idea that IP is charged 'per brain' as it were, is slowly coming to be. No more sharing with friends, that would be illegal!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>These people really are insane .
They wont be happy until they can charge us every time an IP protected thought crosses our brain .
The idea that IP is charged 'per brain ' as it were , is slowly coming to be .
No more sharing with friends , that would be illegal !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These people really are insane.
They wont be happy until they can charge us every time an IP protected thought crosses our brain.
The idea that IP is charged 'per brain' as it were, is slowly coming to be.
No more sharing with friends, that would be illegal!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28507379</id>
	<title>Re:Just nonsense</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1246186980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They will just lump those into the piracy bucket and whine more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They will just lump those into the piracy bucket and whine more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They will just lump those into the piracy bucket and whine more.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28506175</id>
	<title>Re:not about piracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246220160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the plan is just to 'activate' the game one time, at the point of sale, I can't see how this would directly effect the used game market.</p><p>Once the media is activated, it's activated, right?  Does the activation process at the POS know exactly what console you are planning to play the game on, and from which IP?  How cumbersome of a process would that be?</p><p>Unless the console manufacturers start registering unique game id's with unique console id's, then disallowing non-registered pairs to be played, (similar to iTunes model) there would be no direct effect on used media sales.  This will certainly happen as games are increasingly distributed digitally, but that would seem to be another matter entirely.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the plan is just to 'activate ' the game one time , at the point of sale , I ca n't see how this would directly effect the used game market.Once the media is activated , it 's activated , right ?
Does the activation process at the POS know exactly what console you are planning to play the game on , and from which IP ?
How cumbersome of a process would that be ? Unless the console manufacturers start registering unique game id 's with unique console id 's , then disallowing non-registered pairs to be played , ( similar to iTunes model ) there would be no direct effect on used media sales .
This will certainly happen as games are increasingly distributed digitally , but that would seem to be another matter entirely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the plan is just to 'activate' the game one time, at the point of sale, I can't see how this would directly effect the used game market.Once the media is activated, it's activated, right?
Does the activation process at the POS know exactly what console you are planning to play the game on, and from which IP?
How cumbersome of a process would that be?Unless the console manufacturers start registering unique game id's with unique console id's, then disallowing non-registered pairs to be played, (similar to iTunes model) there would be no direct effect on used media sales.
This will certainly happen as games are increasingly distributed digitally, but that would seem to be another matter entirely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505507</id>
	<title>It's about killing the Pre-release</title>
	<author>Amphetam1ne</author>
	<datestamp>1246215600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's about stopping the pirates from getting the game much earlier than it's retail release date. Some studies have indicated that there is a good 10\% extra to be had if you manage to have your 1st 3 days of release without a pirate version available. People who might have bought, but went for a pirate copy instead because they couldn't be bothered to drive into town for example. Most of the pre-release pirate games come from retail, where games may have been shipped to store anything up to 2 weeks before the street date. Employee's of games stores who have ties to scene release groups will purchase or borrow a pre-release game, upload it to the group who will crack it if necessary and then upload it to a private FTP where they hope to win points for being the 1st group to release. From there the game will be disseminated via the usual channels like torrents, usenet, rapidshare (aparently much to the disaproval of The Scene, who just do this to see who can get there 1st). Basicly for years the carefully craftd release scheduals and marketing plans of huge media companies have been screwed up by a bunch of teenagers having an e-penis waving contest. It's nothing new though, it's been happening for 20+ years and has it's roots in dial-up BBS'. There's a scene for virtually everything, not just games. Albums, singles, vinyl DJ promo's, DVD, Blu-ray, PC Apps, Mac apps, Music Production sample packs, they all have their own scene and their own set of groups that are fighting to be the 1st to get a pirate copy on the internet. This is where piracy comes from, not terrorism, not organised crime, just a bunch of teens playing a game against each other. <br> <br>


On the subject of the used market, publishers will be shooting themselves in the feet if they want to go ahead with killing the used market. It's estimated that a substantial number of new game buyers partially fund their games buying through trading in their old titles. So the loss of the used market will more than likely have a negative effect on new sales close to the value of  <br>


I think that peple need to realize that there is simply not an infinite amount of money in the ecconomy and that somwhere you reach a point where no more sales can be made until more cash flows back to the pockets of your customers. However, if you keep the money moving around fast enough, it can seem like there's an infinite amount of it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's about stopping the pirates from getting the game much earlier than it 's retail release date .
Some studies have indicated that there is a good 10 \ % extra to be had if you manage to have your 1st 3 days of release without a pirate version available .
People who might have bought , but went for a pirate copy instead because they could n't be bothered to drive into town for example .
Most of the pre-release pirate games come from retail , where games may have been shipped to store anything up to 2 weeks before the street date .
Employee 's of games stores who have ties to scene release groups will purchase or borrow a pre-release game , upload it to the group who will crack it if necessary and then upload it to a private FTP where they hope to win points for being the 1st group to release .
From there the game will be disseminated via the usual channels like torrents , usenet , rapidshare ( aparently much to the disaproval of The Scene , who just do this to see who can get there 1st ) .
Basicly for years the carefully craftd release scheduals and marketing plans of huge media companies have been screwed up by a bunch of teenagers having an e-penis waving contest .
It 's nothing new though , it 's been happening for 20 + years and has it 's roots in dial-up BBS' .
There 's a scene for virtually everything , not just games .
Albums , singles , vinyl DJ promo 's , DVD , Blu-ray , PC Apps , Mac apps , Music Production sample packs , they all have their own scene and their own set of groups that are fighting to be the 1st to get a pirate copy on the internet .
This is where piracy comes from , not terrorism , not organised crime , just a bunch of teens playing a game against each other .
On the subject of the used market , publishers will be shooting themselves in the feet if they want to go ahead with killing the used market .
It 's estimated that a substantial number of new game buyers partially fund their games buying through trading in their old titles .
So the loss of the used market will more than likely have a negative effect on new sales close to the value of I think that peple need to realize that there is simply not an infinite amount of money in the ecconomy and that somwhere you reach a point where no more sales can be made until more cash flows back to the pockets of your customers .
However , if you keep the money moving around fast enough , it can seem like there 's an infinite amount of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's about stopping the pirates from getting the game much earlier than it's retail release date.
Some studies have indicated that there is a good 10\% extra to be had if you manage to have your 1st 3 days of release without a pirate version available.
People who might have bought, but went for a pirate copy instead because they couldn't be bothered to drive into town for example.
Most of the pre-release pirate games come from retail, where games may have been shipped to store anything up to 2 weeks before the street date.
Employee's of games stores who have ties to scene release groups will purchase or borrow a pre-release game, upload it to the group who will crack it if necessary and then upload it to a private FTP where they hope to win points for being the 1st group to release.
From there the game will be disseminated via the usual channels like torrents, usenet, rapidshare (aparently much to the disaproval of The Scene, who just do this to see who can get there 1st).
Basicly for years the carefully craftd release scheduals and marketing plans of huge media companies have been screwed up by a bunch of teenagers having an e-penis waving contest.
It's nothing new though, it's been happening for 20+ years and has it's roots in dial-up BBS'.
There's a scene for virtually everything, not just games.
Albums, singles, vinyl DJ promo's, DVD, Blu-ray, PC Apps, Mac apps, Music Production sample packs, they all have their own scene and their own set of groups that are fighting to be the 1st to get a pirate copy on the internet.
This is where piracy comes from, not terrorism, not organised crime, just a bunch of teens playing a game against each other.
On the subject of the used market, publishers will be shooting themselves in the feet if they want to go ahead with killing the used market.
It's estimated that a substantial number of new game buyers partially fund their games buying through trading in their old titles.
So the loss of the used market will more than likely have a negative effect on new sales close to the value of  


I think that peple need to realize that there is simply not an infinite amount of money in the ecconomy and that somwhere you reach a point where no more sales can be made until more cash flows back to the pockets of your customers.
However, if you keep the money moving around fast enough, it can seem like there's an infinite amount of it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28517845</id>
	<title>Re:not about piracy</title>
	<author>DragonWriter</author>
	<datestamp>1246305960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>This is about stopping used games sales, nothing more, nothing less</p></div></blockquote><p>Since it covers movies as well as games, "used games sales, nothing more, nothing less" is clearly wrong.</p><p>I think its more about killing off the entire physical distribution chain; in the short term, it stops sales of used copies of the media produced with activation, but it also makes physical purchase even more inconvenient, encouraging abandoning that entire mechanism. Since, in physical purchase, part of what the customer is willing to pay goes to the retailer, converting everything to direct distribution means more of the sale price goes to the distributor.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is about stopping used games sales , nothing more , nothing lessSince it covers movies as well as games , " used games sales , nothing more , nothing less " is clearly wrong.I think its more about killing off the entire physical distribution chain ; in the short term , it stops sales of used copies of the media produced with activation , but it also makes physical purchase even more inconvenient , encouraging abandoning that entire mechanism .
Since , in physical purchase , part of what the customer is willing to pay goes to the retailer , converting everything to direct distribution means more of the sale price goes to the distributor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is about stopping used games sales, nothing more, nothing lessSince it covers movies as well as games, "used games sales, nothing more, nothing less" is clearly wrong.I think its more about killing off the entire physical distribution chain; in the short term, it stops sales of used copies of the media produced with activation, but it also makes physical purchase even more inconvenient, encouraging abandoning that entire mechanism.
Since, in physical purchase, part of what the customer is willing to pay goes to the retailer, converting everything to direct distribution means more of the sale price goes to the distributor.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504941</id>
	<title>Big retailers won't stand for it</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1246212060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
The big retailers won't stand for the slowdown at checkout this would cause. Various schemes like this have been proposed before, and Wal-Mart isn't interested.
</p><p>
If everybody who wants activation at checkout, from cell phones to gift cards to videos, gets together and standardizes on a system, maybe.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The big retailers wo n't stand for the slowdown at checkout this would cause .
Various schemes like this have been proposed before , and Wal-Mart is n't interested .
If everybody who wants activation at checkout , from cell phones to gift cards to videos , gets together and standardizes on a system , maybe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
The big retailers won't stand for the slowdown at checkout this would cause.
Various schemes like this have been proposed before, and Wal-Mart isn't interested.
If everybody who wants activation at checkout, from cell phones to gift cards to videos, gets together and standardizes on a system, maybe.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28508125</id>
	<title>generate ?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246193760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Would <b>generate</b> an additional $6 billion in revenues <b>for media corporations</b> each year</p><p>or</p><p>Would <b>consume</b> an additional $6 billion in revenues <b>from consumers</b> each year</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would generate an additional $ 6 billion in revenues for media corporations each yearorWould consume an additional $ 6 billion in revenues from consumers each year</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would generate an additional $6 billion in revenues for media corporations each yearorWould consume an additional $6 billion in revenues from consumers each year</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505411</id>
	<title>Resale market</title>
	<author>taustin</author>
	<datestamp>1246215120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><em>There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider. After some gamers complete a title, they sell it back to the retailer. How will benefit denial handle that situation?"</em></p><p>If I understand their reasoning correctly, that's part of the piracy they're trying to stop.</p><p>That's the useful part about calling coypright infringement piracy instead of copyright infringement: It has no real meaning, so it means whatever they want it to mean.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider .
After some gamers complete a title , they sell it back to the retailer .
How will benefit denial handle that situation ?
" If I understand their reasoning correctly , that 's part of the piracy they 're trying to stop.That 's the useful part about calling coypright infringement piracy instead of copyright infringement : It has no real meaning , so it means whatever they want it to mean .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider.
After some gamers complete a title, they sell it back to the retailer.
How will benefit denial handle that situation?
"If I understand their reasoning correctly, that's part of the piracy they're trying to stop.That's the useful part about calling coypright infringement piracy instead of copyright infringement: It has no real meaning, so it means whatever they want it to mean.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28517029</id>
	<title>Re:Won't Bother</title>
	<author>IamTheRealMike</author>
	<datestamp>1246302720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually it's not possible to copy games on the PS3, period. It's also not possible to copy internet distributed games on PS3 or Xbox 360. It is possible to copy game discs on the 360, but it requires some convoluted modding process and if Microsoft detect you the console will be banned from Xbox Live. At least for me, that's a major part of the Xbox 360 value, so, getting the box banned would be a big risk.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually it 's not possible to copy games on the PS3 , period .
It 's also not possible to copy internet distributed games on PS3 or Xbox 360 .
It is possible to copy game discs on the 360 , but it requires some convoluted modding process and if Microsoft detect you the console will be banned from Xbox Live .
At least for me , that 's a major part of the Xbox 360 value , so , getting the box banned would be a big risk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually it's not possible to copy games on the PS3, period.
It's also not possible to copy internet distributed games on PS3 or Xbox 360.
It is possible to copy game discs on the 360, but it requires some convoluted modding process and if Microsoft detect you the console will be banned from Xbox Live.
At least for me, that's a major part of the Xbox 360 value, so, getting the box banned would be a big risk.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504815</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504879</id>
	<title>Re:not about piracy</title>
	<author>Joce640k</author>
	<datestamp>1246211640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yep.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505047</id>
	<title>Re:not about piracy</title>
	<author>clang\_jangle</author>
	<datestamp>1246212900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In fact by further inconveniencing their customers such a scheme would likely increase what they like to call "piracy".</htmltext>
<tokenext>In fact by further inconveniencing their customers such a scheme would likely increase what they like to call " piracy " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In fact by further inconveniencing their customers such a scheme would likely increase what they like to call "piracy".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505447</id>
	<title>Re:This solves nothing until ...</title>
	<author>zmnatz</author>
	<datestamp>1246215300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's that term again. "Reason to buy." Why would a publisher want to do that? Isn't it better to make the game, then complain about being entitled to money without providing any reason. Clearly, treating all your customers as criminals is the answer.</p><p>Yes, instead of treating the people who legitimately buy things as what they are, Paying customers who as the saying goes, "are always right", let's just the assume the people who are buying the thing are the ones that are going to pirate it. That makes perfect sense.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's that term again .
" Reason to buy .
" Why would a publisher want to do that ?
Is n't it better to make the game , then complain about being entitled to money without providing any reason .
Clearly , treating all your customers as criminals is the answer.Yes , instead of treating the people who legitimately buy things as what they are , Paying customers who as the saying goes , " are always right " , let 's just the assume the people who are buying the thing are the ones that are going to pirate it .
That makes perfect sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's that term again.
"Reason to buy.
" Why would a publisher want to do that?
Isn't it better to make the game, then complain about being entitled to money without providing any reason.
Clearly, treating all your customers as criminals is the answer.Yes, instead of treating the people who legitimately buy things as what they are, Paying customers who as the saying goes, "are always right", let's just the assume the people who are buying the thing are the ones that are going to pirate it.
That makes perfect sense.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504921</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505751</id>
	<title>Movies WTF?</title>
	<author>future assassin</author>
	<datestamp>1246217160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seriously the moment I have to give out my personal info and spend 5 min at the check out to activate a MOVIE is the day I stop buying ANY entertainment and that includes going to watch movies at the movie theater.  Just like I haven't bought any new music cd's for years although I love hitting up pawn shops and flea markets for dirt cheap music.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously the moment I have to give out my personal info and spend 5 min at the check out to activate a MOVIE is the day I stop buying ANY entertainment and that includes going to watch movies at the movie theater .
Just like I have n't bought any new music cd 's for years although I love hitting up pawn shops and flea markets for dirt cheap music .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously the moment I have to give out my personal info and spend 5 min at the check out to activate a MOVIE is the day I stop buying ANY entertainment and that includes going to watch movies at the movie theater.
Just like I haven't bought any new music cd's for years although I love hitting up pawn shops and flea markets for dirt cheap music.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504995</id>
	<title>Complicated has failed in the past</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246212480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Looks like an industry needs a history lesson.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX\_(Digital\_Video\_Express)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Looks like an industry needs a history lesson .
http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX \ _ ( Digital \ _Video \ _Express )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Looks like an industry needs a history lesson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX\_(Digital\_Video\_Express)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504939</id>
	<title>How will this work for people who don't have high</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1246212060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How will this work for people who don't have high speed internet? None of today DVDs, Blu-ray players, xboxs, ps3 have dial up and for some people that is all they can get.<br>will they have to use usb keys that act as Dongles?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How will this work for people who do n't have high speed internet ?
None of today DVDs , Blu-ray players , xboxs , ps3 have dial up and for some people that is all they can get.will they have to use usb keys that act as Dongles ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How will this work for people who don't have high speed internet?
None of today DVDs, Blu-ray players, xboxs, ps3 have dial up and for some people that is all they can get.will they have to use usb keys that act as Dongles?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505343</id>
	<title>Yup</title>
	<author>goldcd</author>
	<datestamp>1246214640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The official PC market is 'similar' to this already. You get a code printed on the manual, and then when you install the game you 'activate' your code online.<br>
That code is now used and it is tied to you.<br>
The reason why you now never see any 2nd hand PC games in shops, is if you walk in with a physical game, with the manual, with the code - precisely as how it came - there's no way the poor guy in the shop can know if when he resells the game it'll work.<br>
So they just drop the PC section and the console section gets just a little bit bigger.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The official PC market is 'similar ' to this already .
You get a code printed on the manual , and then when you install the game you 'activate ' your code online .
That code is now used and it is tied to you .
The reason why you now never see any 2nd hand PC games in shops , is if you walk in with a physical game , with the manual , with the code - precisely as how it came - there 's no way the poor guy in the shop can know if when he resells the game it 'll work .
So they just drop the PC section and the console section gets just a little bit bigger .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The official PC market is 'similar' to this already.
You get a code printed on the manual, and then when you install the game you 'activate' your code online.
That code is now used and it is tied to you.
The reason why you now never see any 2nd hand PC games in shops, is if you walk in with a physical game, with the manual, with the code - precisely as how it came - there's no way the poor guy in the shop can know if when he resells the game it'll work.
So they just drop the PC section and the console section gets just a little bit bigger.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504789</id>
	<title>an additional six billion?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246211100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, they could make an additional six billion by creating games people actually want to play in the first place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , they could make an additional six billion by creating games people actually want to play in the first place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, they could make an additional six billion by creating games people actually want to play in the first place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504887</id>
	<title>are they kicking up the security another notch?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246211700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>obligatory bam</p><p>it's just going to create a lot more overhead for the publishing companies, drive legid users already up in arms about draconic measures even more UP IN ARMS<br>for the tiny amount of people who quit because they can't be arsed anymore to keep up with latest crackin/copying techniques</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>obligatory bamit 's just going to create a lot more overhead for the publishing companies , drive legid users already up in arms about draconic measures even more UP IN ARMSfor the tiny amount of people who quit because they ca n't be arsed anymore to keep up with latest crackin/copying techniques</tokentext>
<sentencetext>obligatory bamit's just going to create a lot more overhead for the publishing companies, drive legid users already up in arms about draconic measures even more UP IN ARMSfor the tiny amount of people who quit because they can't be arsed anymore to keep up with latest crackin/copying techniques</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505825</id>
	<title>Re:not about piracy</title>
	<author>SurenPala</author>
	<datestamp>1246217580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If they do this I will stop buying games and simply start pirating them. They will have lost me as a customer forever.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they do this I will stop buying games and simply start pirating them .
They will have lost me as a customer forever .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they do this I will stop buying games and simply start pirating them.
They will have lost me as a customer forever.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505455</id>
	<title>I bet the pirate version doesn't have that problem</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246215360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Just like pirated DVDs don't have long unskippable ads at the beginning...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Just like pirated DVDs do n't have long unskippable ads at the beginning.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just like pirated DVDs don't have long unskippable ads at the beginning...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28515279</id>
	<title>Re:The value of things</title>
	<author>drinkypoo</author>
	<datestamp>1246296180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There is some factors into the price difference between new an used cars other then perception. A diamond, after, does not age, any defects are readily visible to a jeweler that knows what he is doing etc. A car has hundreds of different factors that affect it's condition and life.</p></div><p>The main factor which sets the price of both used diamonds and used cars is <strong>perception</strong>.</p><p>In his excellent 1982 book <em>The Rise and Fall of Diamonds: The Shattering of a Brilliant Illusion</em>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward\_Jay\_Epstein" title="wikipedia.org">Edward Jay Epstein</a> [wikipedia.org] lays out quite clearly the story of the Diamond industry. Without going into extensive detail, the used diamond market has been completely depreciated by DeBeers. It is reputed that if they sold every diamond in their vaults at once, diamonds would become a semi-precious stone. Through their network of distributors which they entirely control, they prevent jewelers from paying high prices for used jewelry by simply ratcheting up their prices for stones if they do not comply. Diamonds were in fact seen as a fairly plain stone before DeBeers paid significant sums of money to put them on the hands of moviestars, and especially <em>in</em> the movies themselves, a technique also employed very successfully at the time by the tobacco industry.</p><p>When you drive an automobile off the lot, it loses about a third of its value. Nothing significant has happened to the car itself between the last test drive and your turn onto the street, and in fact, <em>all cars run on used parts</em>. The difference in sale value is one of perception, at least in cases where the factory warranty still applies. The cleaner you can get the car, the more it will sell for. Whether you washed the vehicle makes a larger difference in its value than whether you used good oil.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is some factors into the price difference between new an used cars other then perception .
A diamond , after , does not age , any defects are readily visible to a jeweler that knows what he is doing etc .
A car has hundreds of different factors that affect it 's condition and life.The main factor which sets the price of both used diamonds and used cars is perception.In his excellent 1982 book The Rise and Fall of Diamonds : The Shattering of a Brilliant Illusion , Edward Jay Epstein [ wikipedia.org ] lays out quite clearly the story of the Diamond industry .
Without going into extensive detail , the used diamond market has been completely depreciated by DeBeers .
It is reputed that if they sold every diamond in their vaults at once , diamonds would become a semi-precious stone .
Through their network of distributors which they entirely control , they prevent jewelers from paying high prices for used jewelry by simply ratcheting up their prices for stones if they do not comply .
Diamonds were in fact seen as a fairly plain stone before DeBeers paid significant sums of money to put them on the hands of moviestars , and especially in the movies themselves , a technique also employed very successfully at the time by the tobacco industry.When you drive an automobile off the lot , it loses about a third of its value .
Nothing significant has happened to the car itself between the last test drive and your turn onto the street , and in fact , all cars run on used parts .
The difference in sale value is one of perception , at least in cases where the factory warranty still applies .
The cleaner you can get the car , the more it will sell for .
Whether you washed the vehicle makes a larger difference in its value than whether you used good oil .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is some factors into the price difference between new an used cars other then perception.
A diamond, after, does not age, any defects are readily visible to a jeweler that knows what he is doing etc.
A car has hundreds of different factors that affect it's condition and life.The main factor which sets the price of both used diamonds and used cars is perception.In his excellent 1982 book The Rise and Fall of Diamonds: The Shattering of a Brilliant Illusion, Edward Jay Epstein [wikipedia.org] lays out quite clearly the story of the Diamond industry.
Without going into extensive detail, the used diamond market has been completely depreciated by DeBeers.
It is reputed that if they sold every diamond in their vaults at once, diamonds would become a semi-precious stone.
Through their network of distributors which they entirely control, they prevent jewelers from paying high prices for used jewelry by simply ratcheting up their prices for stones if they do not comply.
Diamonds were in fact seen as a fairly plain stone before DeBeers paid significant sums of money to put them on the hands of moviestars, and especially in the movies themselves, a technique also employed very successfully at the time by the tobacco industry.When you drive an automobile off the lot, it loses about a third of its value.
Nothing significant has happened to the car itself between the last test drive and your turn onto the street, and in fact, all cars run on used parts.
The difference in sale value is one of perception, at least in cases where the factory warranty still applies.
The cleaner you can get the car, the more it will sell for.
Whether you washed the vehicle makes a larger difference in its value than whether you used good oil.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28507227</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504831</id>
	<title>Another link in a long chain.</title>
	<author>InMSWeAntitrust</author>
	<datestamp>1246211340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"In order for benefit denial to work, the EMA would presumably require the three major consoles to have some sort of activation verification function to ensure that games were legally purchased.</p></div><p>Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what they already do? I remember the original Xbox had a challenge response function signed with 2048bit RSA specifically designed to verify if the game was legitimate (regardless of homebrew implications). I fail to see how this generates anything except another spot for something to go wrong (ever have the cashier forget to give you change? Now have him forget to activate your $60 game).<br> <br>

Honestly, the best thing to combat piracy is to release better quality games.  I'm looking at you EA (a.k.a. carbon copy gaming).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" In order for benefit denial to work , the EMA would presumably require the three major consoles to have some sort of activation verification function to ensure that games were legally purchased.Correct me if I 'm wrong , but is n't that what they already do ?
I remember the original Xbox had a challenge response function signed with 2048bit RSA specifically designed to verify if the game was legitimate ( regardless of homebrew implications ) .
I fail to see how this generates anything except another spot for something to go wrong ( ever have the cashier forget to give you change ?
Now have him forget to activate your $ 60 game ) .
Honestly , the best thing to combat piracy is to release better quality games .
I 'm looking at you EA ( a.k.a .
carbon copy gaming ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"In order for benefit denial to work, the EMA would presumably require the three major consoles to have some sort of activation verification function to ensure that games were legally purchased.Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what they already do?
I remember the original Xbox had a challenge response function signed with 2048bit RSA specifically designed to verify if the game was legitimate (regardless of homebrew implications).
I fail to see how this generates anything except another spot for something to go wrong (ever have the cashier forget to give you change?
Now have him forget to activate your $60 game).
Honestly, the best thing to combat piracy is to release better quality games.
I'm looking at you EA (a.k.a.
carbon copy gaming).
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505375</id>
	<title>piracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246214880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I used to pirate stuff when I was a kid because I didn't have the money.  Now that I'm an adult with a moderately decent job, I purchase everything legitimately.  If this happens, I'll pirate again, but this time based on principle.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to pirate stuff when I was a kid because I did n't have the money .
Now that I 'm an adult with a moderately decent job , I purchase everything legitimately .
If this happens , I 'll pirate again , but this time based on principle .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to pirate stuff when I was a kid because I didn't have the money.
Now that I'm an adult with a moderately decent job, I purchase everything legitimately.
If this happens, I'll pirate again, but this time based on principle.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504797</id>
	<title>Just nonsense</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246211160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>And what about the sales lost because of annoying the *customer*? Greedy idiots.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And what about the sales lost because of annoying the * customer * ?
Greedy idiots .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And what about the sales lost because of annoying the *customer*?
Greedy idiots.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504993</id>
	<title>Then their losses will be from somethinng else...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246212420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Me walking away, disinterested in their attempts to lock me into a bad deal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Me walking away , disinterested in their attempts to lock me into a bad deal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Me walking away, disinterested in their attempts to lock me into a bad deal.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28508617</id>
	<title>Re:Another link in a long chain.</title>
	<author>bertoelcon</author>
	<datestamp>1246198020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Even the NES had a chip that determined if it was a real game or not, so the legitimate game test is not a new one by far.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even the NES had a chip that determined if it was a real game or not , so the legitimate game test is not a new one by far .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even the NES had a chip that determined if it was a real game or not, so the legitimate game test is not a new one by far.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28507131</id>
	<title>Re:Just nonsense</title>
	<author>An anonymous Frank</author>
	<datestamp>1246185060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>are there any stats on this?</p><p>I completely stopped buying CDs after almost purchasing protected ones three times, yet where are the numbers showing the (negative) imoact of such measures on sales?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>are there any stats on this ? I completely stopped buying CDs after almost purchasing protected ones three times , yet where are the numbers showing the ( negative ) imoact of such measures on sales ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>are there any stats on this?I completely stopped buying CDs after almost purchasing protected ones three times, yet where are the numbers showing the (negative) imoact of such measures on sales?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28507349</id>
	<title>They can do whatever they like...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246186800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I stopped buying *new* games years ago. I have to worry about what "capitalistic malware infestation" the new PC games come with. Combine this with the shitty quality of newer games (Deus Ex Invisible War vs. Deus Ex) (Unreal 2 vs. Unreal) and its easy to see how the games of ten years ago were *so* much better. At least I have twelve years of great classic games to play. I miss games like Sin, Thief, DX, Unreal and Quake.</p><p>I also blame the XBOX for destroying two of my favorite franchises (Thief and DX). Everyone loves tiny environments and muddy textures. The future is sloppy ports of games that are unoptimized and cator to the lowest contender in terms of hardware and player IQ.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I stopped buying * new * games years ago .
I have to worry about what " capitalistic malware infestation " the new PC games come with .
Combine this with the shitty quality of newer games ( Deus Ex Invisible War vs. Deus Ex ) ( Unreal 2 vs. Unreal ) and its easy to see how the games of ten years ago were * so * much better .
At least I have twelve years of great classic games to play .
I miss games like Sin , Thief , DX , Unreal and Quake.I also blame the XBOX for destroying two of my favorite franchises ( Thief and DX ) .
Everyone loves tiny environments and muddy textures .
The future is sloppy ports of games that are unoptimized and cator to the lowest contender in terms of hardware and player IQ .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I stopped buying *new* games years ago.
I have to worry about what "capitalistic malware infestation" the new PC games come with.
Combine this with the shitty quality of newer games (Deus Ex Invisible War vs. Deus Ex) (Unreal 2 vs. Unreal) and its easy to see how the games of ten years ago were *so* much better.
At least I have twelve years of great classic games to play.
I miss games like Sin, Thief, DX, Unreal and Quake.I also blame the XBOX for destroying two of my favorite franchises (Thief and DX).
Everyone loves tiny environments and muddy textures.
The future is sloppy ports of games that are unoptimized and cator to the lowest contender in terms of hardware and player IQ.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28510545</id>
	<title>Re:The value of things</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246216740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, but when I bought my 8 year old Nissan Sentra in 96 it basically had no faults, and still runs well at age 21 (I'm from New Zealand, where the average car age is about 12 years).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , but when I bought my 8 year old Nissan Sentra in 96 it basically had no faults , and still runs well at age 21 ( I 'm from New Zealand , where the average car age is about 12 years ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, but when I bought my 8 year old Nissan Sentra in 96 it basically had no faults, and still runs well at age 21 (I'm from New Zealand, where the average car age is about 12 years).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28507227</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28508117</id>
	<title>Yes!</title>
	<author>Weezul</author>
	<datestamp>1246193640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Console games are the bane of computing!  Any innovation that drastically reduces the console game market, moving those people to netbooks and set top boxes is a massive boon for humanity!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Console games are the bane of computing !
Any innovation that drastically reduces the console game market , moving those people to netbooks and set top boxes is a massive boon for humanity !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Console games are the bane of computing!
Any innovation that drastically reduces the console game market, moving those people to netbooks and set top boxes is a massive boon for humanity!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28511481</id>
	<title>Re:Another link in a long chain.</title>
	<author>TheTurtlesMoves</author>
	<datestamp>1246270800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Better quality games will not reduce piracy any more than lowing the drinking age with reduce alcohol consumption.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Better quality games will not reduce piracy any more than lowing the drinking age with reduce alcohol consumption .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Better quality games will not reduce piracy any more than lowing the drinking age with reduce alcohol consumption.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504831</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</id>
	<title>not about piracy</title>
	<author>timpdx</author>
	<datestamp>1246210980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is about stopping used games sales, nothing more, nothing less</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is about stopping used games sales , nothing more , nothing less</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is about stopping used games sales, nothing more, nothing less</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505099</id>
	<title>All on the retailer</title>
	<author>failedlogic</author>
	<datestamp>1246213260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The pressure is being put on the retailer. As a condition of selling the media, the retailer must agree to activating it.</p><p>Customer has a bad experience with the activation? No problem, blame the retailer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The pressure is being put on the retailer .
As a condition of selling the media , the retailer must agree to activating it.Customer has a bad experience with the activation ?
No problem , blame the retailer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The pressure is being put on the retailer.
As a condition of selling the media, the retailer must agree to activating it.Customer has a bad experience with the activation?
No problem, blame the retailer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504861</id>
	<title>Re:not about piracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246211520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except that this doesn't have anything to do with used game sales unless your "used" games fell off a truck somewhere. Once the disc's activated it's activated, and that's that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that this does n't have anything to do with used game sales unless your " used " games fell off a truck somewhere .
Once the disc 's activated it 's activated , and that 's that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that this doesn't have anything to do with used game sales unless your "used" games fell off a truck somewhere.
Once the disc's activated it's activated, and that's that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28506053</id>
	<title>You know...</title>
	<author>Runefox</author>
	<datestamp>1246219320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've said it before and I'll say it again: The only real thing that needs to happen to completely lock down physical media on consoles is for a small portion of the disc to be writeable, and require retailers to write that with a specialized burner on purchase, containing all pertinent information including console serial number, date of purchase, place of purchase, etc etc. Encode/burn it in a way otherwise unreadable by normal players (like the Dreamcast's GD-ROM format, which was, to grossly over-simplify, more or less an inversion of the expected TOC with the data written backwards), give the console(s) in question the ability to read and require that track via firmware, and you have a completely locked-down, no-resale system that's directly tied to your console and your console alone. Charge an extra 50\% per disc for "unlocked" versions to be used solely at video rental stores, perhaps with a re-writeable layer containing a date string to lock the game once the due-back date arrives.</p><p>Sure, it'd cost an arm and a leg and the soul of your first-born son, but who cares? You're saving yourself from PIRATES. Plus, you get all the benefits of the online distribution racket, too - Your friend wants to play? They need to get their own copy! You lost your disc? Buy another one, just like people who lost their accounts do! Console broke? Well, buy a new one and buy all your games again! Best of all, no pesky internet connection required to verify the license. That's a plus for the consumer!</p><p>Sure, you might be able to get around it, but good luck with that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've said it before and I 'll say it again : The only real thing that needs to happen to completely lock down physical media on consoles is for a small portion of the disc to be writeable , and require retailers to write that with a specialized burner on purchase , containing all pertinent information including console serial number , date of purchase , place of purchase , etc etc .
Encode/burn it in a way otherwise unreadable by normal players ( like the Dreamcast 's GD-ROM format , which was , to grossly over-simplify , more or less an inversion of the expected TOC with the data written backwards ) , give the console ( s ) in question the ability to read and require that track via firmware , and you have a completely locked-down , no-resale system that 's directly tied to your console and your console alone .
Charge an extra 50 \ % per disc for " unlocked " versions to be used solely at video rental stores , perhaps with a re-writeable layer containing a date string to lock the game once the due-back date arrives.Sure , it 'd cost an arm and a leg and the soul of your first-born son , but who cares ?
You 're saving yourself from PIRATES .
Plus , you get all the benefits of the online distribution racket , too - Your friend wants to play ?
They need to get their own copy !
You lost your disc ?
Buy another one , just like people who lost their accounts do !
Console broke ?
Well , buy a new one and buy all your games again !
Best of all , no pesky internet connection required to verify the license .
That 's a plus for the consumer ! Sure , you might be able to get around it , but good luck with that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've said it before and I'll say it again: The only real thing that needs to happen to completely lock down physical media on consoles is for a small portion of the disc to be writeable, and require retailers to write that with a specialized burner on purchase, containing all pertinent information including console serial number, date of purchase, place of purchase, etc etc.
Encode/burn it in a way otherwise unreadable by normal players (like the Dreamcast's GD-ROM format, which was, to grossly over-simplify, more or less an inversion of the expected TOC with the data written backwards), give the console(s) in question the ability to read and require that track via firmware, and you have a completely locked-down, no-resale system that's directly tied to your console and your console alone.
Charge an extra 50\% per disc for "unlocked" versions to be used solely at video rental stores, perhaps with a re-writeable layer containing a date string to lock the game once the due-back date arrives.Sure, it'd cost an arm and a leg and the soul of your first-born son, but who cares?
You're saving yourself from PIRATES.
Plus, you get all the benefits of the online distribution racket, too - Your friend wants to play?
They need to get their own copy!
You lost your disc?
Buy another one, just like people who lost their accounts do!
Console broke?
Well, buy a new one and buy all your games again!
Best of all, no pesky internet connection required to verify the license.
That's a plus for the consumer!Sure, you might be able to get around it, but good luck with that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28512293</id>
	<title>Climb the mountain because it's there!</title>
	<author>reiisi</author>
	<datestamp>1246278900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Code a (stupid) activation function because you (think you) can.</p><p>This is called, of course, blind hacking. Some people can't tell the difference between a computer and a magic box.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Code a ( stupid ) activation function because you ( think you ) can.This is called , of course , blind hacking .
Some people ca n't tell the difference between a computer and a magic box .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Code a (stupid) activation function because you (think you) can.This is called, of course, blind hacking.
Some people can't tell the difference between a computer and a magic box.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28509903</id>
	<title>Managing expectations?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246211160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Perhaps this is another ploy to manage peoples' expectations.  If the latest iteration is so outrageous, then it makes the established practice (DRM) seem like a cuddly teddy bear.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps this is another ploy to manage peoples ' expectations .
If the latest iteration is so outrageous , then it makes the established practice ( DRM ) seem like a cuddly teddy bear .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps this is another ploy to manage peoples' expectations.
If the latest iteration is so outrageous, then it makes the established practice (DRM) seem like a cuddly teddy bear.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28508013</id>
	<title>Re:not about piracy</title>
	<author>Pinky's Brain</author>
	<datestamp>1246192440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except we don't believe that's what they are actually planning, to be able to really "unlock" a disc it has to either be part writeable (it has to work with existing drives) with the last bit being written at the counter, or has to come with a dongle. These are just not a realistic solution. So we assume that they will actually unlock the disc ID by sending it to gestapo headquarters, which will then let you perform online activation at home on your console<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... which may or may not tie the software to your machine (depending on the whim of the developer).</p><p>It's almost certainly an online activation scheme and not an actual physical unlock.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except we do n't believe that 's what they are actually planning , to be able to really " unlock " a disc it has to either be part writeable ( it has to work with existing drives ) with the last bit being written at the counter , or has to come with a dongle .
These are just not a realistic solution .
So we assume that they will actually unlock the disc ID by sending it to gestapo headquarters , which will then let you perform online activation at home on your console ... which may or may not tie the software to your machine ( depending on the whim of the developer ) .It 's almost certainly an online activation scheme and not an actual physical unlock .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except we don't believe that's what they are actually planning, to be able to really "unlock" a disc it has to either be part writeable (it has to work with existing drives) with the last bit being written at the counter, or has to come with a dongle.
These are just not a realistic solution.
So we assume that they will actually unlock the disc ID by sending it to gestapo headquarters, which will then let you perform online activation at home on your console ... which may or may not tie the software to your machine (depending on the whim of the developer).It's almost certainly an online activation scheme and not an actual physical unlock.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504861</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505869</id>
	<title>Re:not about piracy</title>
	<author>MemoryDragon</author>
	<datestamp>1246217940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Problem is that the game prices are so high that preventing used sales, might effect new game sales hugely in a negative way!<br>Simply if you cannot sell the game anymore you think twice even buying it new. I am rather sure it will backfire big time!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Problem is that the game prices are so high that preventing used sales , might effect new game sales hugely in a negative way ! Simply if you can not sell the game anymore you think twice even buying it new .
I am rather sure it will backfire big time !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Problem is that the game prices are so high that preventing used sales, might effect new game sales hugely in a negative way!Simply if you cannot sell the game anymore you think twice even buying it new.
I am rather sure it will backfire big time!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505417</id>
	<title>Last time I checked...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246215180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>DVD players didn't have internet access. How exactly do they plan to implement such a ridiculous idea.</htmltext>
<tokenext>DVD players did n't have internet access .
How exactly do they plan to implement such a ridiculous idea .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DVD players didn't have internet access.
How exactly do they plan to implement such a ridiculous idea.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28507369</id>
	<title>Make it too hard to be legal</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1246186920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And more people will go the illegal route.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And more people will go the illegal route .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And more people will go the illegal route.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505485</id>
	<title>Aftermarket, schmaftermarket</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246215540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"After some gamers complete a title, they sell it back to the retailer. How will benefit denial handle that situation?" Why, it won't, of course. Isn't that convenient? Publishers never liked the "first sale" doctrine, but there's nothing they can do about it, from a purely legal point of view. So, a technical "solution" it is.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" After some gamers complete a title , they sell it back to the retailer .
How will benefit denial handle that situation ?
" Why , it wo n't , of course .
Is n't that convenient ?
Publishers never liked the " first sale " doctrine , but there 's nothing they can do about it , from a purely legal point of view .
So , a technical " solution " it is .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"After some gamers complete a title, they sell it back to the retailer.
How will benefit denial handle that situation?
" Why, it won't, of course.
Isn't that convenient?
Publishers never liked the "first sale" doctrine, but there's nothing they can do about it, from a purely legal point of view.
So, a technical "solution" it is.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28516059</id>
	<title>Re:an additional six billion?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246298940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Insightful? Really? Humorous maybe - and that would be a stretch - but insightful???</p><p>I want an insightful mod for this comment too then:</p><p>"People would be a lot better off if they did things that benefited themselves."</p><p>Does everyone really believe that the majority of the games industry is not disparately trying to make games people want to play so they can sell them?  Do you think that it would not be in their best interest to do so?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Insightful ?
Really ? Humorous maybe - and that would be a stretch - but insightful ? ?
? I want an insightful mod for this comment too then : " People would be a lot better off if they did things that benefited themselves .
" Does everyone really believe that the majority of the games industry is not disparately trying to make games people want to play so they can sell them ?
Do you think that it would not be in their best interest to do so ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Insightful?
Really? Humorous maybe - and that would be a stretch - but insightful??
?I want an insightful mod for this comment too then:"People would be a lot better off if they did things that benefited themselves.
"Does everyone really believe that the majority of the games industry is not disparately trying to make games people want to play so they can sell them?
Do you think that it would not be in their best interest to do so?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504789</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28506017</id>
	<title>It's just slave talk.</title>
	<author>iCantSpell</author>
	<datestamp>1246218960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Every once in a while some greedy bald guy in a suit will have coffee with his buddies to talk about restricting content for profit, and this is one of those ideas.</p><p>Activating dvds, games, and anything else on a disc is absolutely impossible. Not every single hardware maker in the world is going to raise the cost of production to apply this crap to there devices.</p><p>Now lets look at some more facts. Not everyone has internet, you would have to replace or have seperate hardware for the "activated" media, and most people will partake in the acts that this move is trying to prevent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Every once in a while some greedy bald guy in a suit will have coffee with his buddies to talk about restricting content for profit , and this is one of those ideas.Activating dvds , games , and anything else on a disc is absolutely impossible .
Not every single hardware maker in the world is going to raise the cost of production to apply this crap to there devices.Now lets look at some more facts .
Not everyone has internet , you would have to replace or have seperate hardware for the " activated " media , and most people will partake in the acts that this move is trying to prevent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Every once in a while some greedy bald guy in a suit will have coffee with his buddies to talk about restricting content for profit, and this is one of those ideas.Activating dvds, games, and anything else on a disc is absolutely impossible.
Not every single hardware maker in the world is going to raise the cost of production to apply this crap to there devices.Now lets look at some more facts.
Not everyone has internet, you would have to replace or have seperate hardware for the "activated" media, and most people will partake in the acts that this move is trying to prevent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28510489</id>
	<title>Studies!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246216440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Studies claim that giving a ragtag group of misfits millions of dollars in equipment and ONE, LAST, CHANCE will save the entire planet! I see them all the time on tv, it must be true.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Studies claim that giving a ragtag group of misfits millions of dollars in equipment and ONE , LAST , CHANCE will save the entire planet !
I see them all the time on tv , it must be true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Studies claim that giving a ragtag group of misfits millions of dollars in equipment and ONE, LAST, CHANCE will save the entire planet!
I see them all the time on tv, it must be true.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28506367</id>
	<title>Entertainment MERCHANTS, not Publishers</title>
	<author>Swanktastic</author>
	<datestamp>1246221540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This study was published by the Entertainment Merchants Association, which is a trade group for the retailers who sell and rent games.  The members are companies like Toys R Us, Blockbuster, Target, etc.  All the posts here read like the publishers are the ones sponsoring this study- eg this is the publishers trying to kill used sales.</p><p>I'm not convinced that is the motivation given that the merchants are the primary beneficiaries of used sales.  For merchants, in store theft is a huge issue, and I imagine it was a primary motivation for at least starting this study on POS activation.</p><p>These guys are looking to a future where downloaded games reduce the need for physical retailers, and I'm sure they are scrambling to ensure their place in the world through whatever means necessary- including some dumb ideas like POS activation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This study was published by the Entertainment Merchants Association , which is a trade group for the retailers who sell and rent games .
The members are companies like Toys R Us , Blockbuster , Target , etc .
All the posts here read like the publishers are the ones sponsoring this study- eg this is the publishers trying to kill used sales.I 'm not convinced that is the motivation given that the merchants are the primary beneficiaries of used sales .
For merchants , in store theft is a huge issue , and I imagine it was a primary motivation for at least starting this study on POS activation.These guys are looking to a future where downloaded games reduce the need for physical retailers , and I 'm sure they are scrambling to ensure their place in the world through whatever means necessary- including some dumb ideas like POS activation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This study was published by the Entertainment Merchants Association, which is a trade group for the retailers who sell and rent games.
The members are companies like Toys R Us, Blockbuster, Target, etc.
All the posts here read like the publishers are the ones sponsoring this study- eg this is the publishers trying to kill used sales.I'm not convinced that is the motivation given that the merchants are the primary beneficiaries of used sales.
For merchants, in store theft is a huge issue, and I imagine it was a primary motivation for at least starting this study on POS activation.These guys are looking to a future where downloaded games reduce the need for physical retailers, and I'm sure they are scrambling to ensure their place in the world through whatever means necessary- including some dumb ideas like POS activation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28522095</id>
	<title>Won't affects used sales, will be annoying.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246280820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't see this doing anything but making the sale take longer and possible stop some in store thefts. This has nothing to do with piracy and it will have no effect on the used game market.  A place like Gamestop that makes most of it's business on used games will have no incentive to deactivate a game before selling it again but would have every reason not to.  Also I've heard nothing about any possible deactivation (and honestly if they are expecting that then they're completely batshit).  In the end this will just be annoying and maybe stop some retail loss but will not increase revenue because that kid that just stuck a copy of GTA down his pants when nobody was looking won't magically have sixty bucks hidden in the same spot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't see this doing anything but making the sale take longer and possible stop some in store thefts .
This has nothing to do with piracy and it will have no effect on the used game market .
A place like Gamestop that makes most of it 's business on used games will have no incentive to deactivate a game before selling it again but would have every reason not to .
Also I 've heard nothing about any possible deactivation ( and honestly if they are expecting that then they 're completely batshit ) .
In the end this will just be annoying and maybe stop some retail loss but will not increase revenue because that kid that just stuck a copy of GTA down his pants when nobody was looking wo n't magically have sixty bucks hidden in the same spot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't see this doing anything but making the sale take longer and possible stop some in store thefts.
This has nothing to do with piracy and it will have no effect on the used game market.
A place like Gamestop that makes most of it's business on used games will have no incentive to deactivate a game before selling it again but would have every reason not to.
Also I've heard nothing about any possible deactivation (and honestly if they are expecting that then they're completely batshit).
In the end this will just be annoying and maybe stop some retail loss but will not increase revenue because that kid that just stuck a copy of GTA down his pants when nobody was looking won't magically have sixty bucks hidden in the same spot.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28506061</id>
	<title>Re:not about piracy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246219380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>its also to stop you from bringing your games over to your friends house to play it with them. Fuck this study, they just bent the results to find what they want.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>its also to stop you from bringing your games over to your friends house to play it with them .
Fuck this study , they just bent the results to find what they want .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>its also to stop you from bringing your games over to your friends house to play it with them.
Fuck this study, they just bent the results to find what they want.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504763</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504815</id>
	<title>Won't Bother</title>
	<author>hardburn</author>
	<datestamp>1246211280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider. After some gamers complete a title, they sell it back to the retailer. How will benefit denial handle that situation?"</p></div><p>It won't handle that situation, because it's exactly the one they're really trying to stop. Illicit copying on consoles is a lot more difficult than PCs; it's always possible, but you're cutting out a big chunk of the potential copying going on if it requires a soldering iron to get it done. Publishers can afford to completely ignore illicit copying on consoles.</p><p>However, they can use "piracy" as a rallying cry to put in measures to kill the used game market.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider .
After some gamers complete a title , they sell it back to the retailer .
How will benefit denial handle that situation ?
" It wo n't handle that situation , because it 's exactly the one they 're really trying to stop .
Illicit copying on consoles is a lot more difficult than PCs ; it 's always possible , but you 're cutting out a big chunk of the potential copying going on if it requires a soldering iron to get it done .
Publishers can afford to completely ignore illicit copying on consoles.However , they can use " piracy " as a rallying cry to put in measures to kill the used game market .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is also a lucrative market for used video games to consider.
After some gamers complete a title, they sell it back to the retailer.
How will benefit denial handle that situation?
"It won't handle that situation, because it's exactly the one they're really trying to stop.
Illicit copying on consoles is a lot more difficult than PCs; it's always possible, but you're cutting out a big chunk of the potential copying going on if it requires a soldering iron to get it done.
Publishers can afford to completely ignore illicit copying on consoles.However, they can use "piracy" as a rallying cry to put in measures to kill the used game market.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28511755</id>
	<title>Distribution owners and chains are just scared</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246273380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>because as noted before. Stuff like Steam and the MS, Sony and Nintento Online distribution methods are proving to be a gigantic competition for the distribution chains (which happen to be owned, just like with movies and music, the big publishers).</p><p>Its not only piracy thats taking away money from hardcopy distribution but everything online.</p><p>Just like with movies and music, the big money publishers are stuck in their old ways, can't and won't evolve to not needing 90\% of the people they employ and 99\% of the distribution buildings and transport methods they own.</p><p>Dropping their old ways would mean getting rid of most of their assets and a whopping lot of their turnover.</p><p>Because they didn't evolve with the rest of the world, they are stuck in a possition where they are in their entirety obsolete and could be cut out as a middle man without any problems.</p><p>Just like with the movie and music corps, they are showing their final kicks and trashes while dying a very painfull death.</p><p>They prefer blaming their failing bussines on Piracy and filesharing, while its their own damn fault because they opted for maximum profit without regard to the fact that route would mean their death.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>because as noted before .
Stuff like Steam and the MS , Sony and Nintento Online distribution methods are proving to be a gigantic competition for the distribution chains ( which happen to be owned , just like with movies and music , the big publishers ) .Its not only piracy thats taking away money from hardcopy distribution but everything online.Just like with movies and music , the big money publishers are stuck in their old ways , ca n't and wo n't evolve to not needing 90 \ % of the people they employ and 99 \ % of the distribution buildings and transport methods they own.Dropping their old ways would mean getting rid of most of their assets and a whopping lot of their turnover.Because they did n't evolve with the rest of the world , they are stuck in a possition where they are in their entirety obsolete and could be cut out as a middle man without any problems.Just like with the movie and music corps , they are showing their final kicks and trashes while dying a very painfull death.They prefer blaming their failing bussines on Piracy and filesharing , while its their own damn fault because they opted for maximum profit without regard to the fact that route would mean their death .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>because as noted before.
Stuff like Steam and the MS, Sony and Nintento Online distribution methods are proving to be a gigantic competition for the distribution chains (which happen to be owned, just like with movies and music, the big publishers).Its not only piracy thats taking away money from hardcopy distribution but everything online.Just like with movies and music, the big money publishers are stuck in their old ways, can't and won't evolve to not needing 90\% of the people they employ and 99\% of the distribution buildings and transport methods they own.Dropping their old ways would mean getting rid of most of their assets and a whopping lot of their turnover.Because they didn't evolve with the rest of the world, they are stuck in a possition where they are in their entirety obsolete and could be cut out as a middle man without any problems.Just like with the movie and music corps, they are showing their final kicks and trashes while dying a very painfull death.They prefer blaming their failing bussines on Piracy and filesharing, while its their own damn fault because they opted for maximum profit without regard to the fact that route would mean their death.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28509767</id>
	<title>In related news...</title>
	<author>Ender77</author>
	<datestamp>1246209540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>...Piracy jumps 8000\% after plan is implemented.  Seriously, this was tried with the DRM securvirus fiasco, people like me REFUSED to buy anything that had it on it, and drove everybody to get the pirated version.  Not only that, people went to every site that had reviews of the games and nuked the reviews which hurt sales even more.  EA finally relented and seems to have learned their lesson and not put any securcrap on their latest games (besides CD check).  Go ahead and put this on your games/movies/others, they will learn soon enough what happens when a company gets too greedy the moment they do.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...Piracy jumps 8000 \ % after plan is implemented .
Seriously , this was tried with the DRM securvirus fiasco , people like me REFUSED to buy anything that had it on it , and drove everybody to get the pirated version .
Not only that , people went to every site that had reviews of the games and nuked the reviews which hurt sales even more .
EA finally relented and seems to have learned their lesson and not put any securcrap on their latest games ( besides CD check ) .
Go ahead and put this on your games/movies/others , they will learn soon enough what happens when a company gets too greedy the moment they do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...Piracy jumps 8000\% after plan is implemented.
Seriously, this was tried with the DRM securvirus fiasco, people like me REFUSED to buy anything that had it on it, and drove everybody to get the pirated version.
Not only that, people went to every site that had reviews of the games and nuked the reviews which hurt sales even more.
EA finally relented and seems to have learned their lesson and not put any securcrap on their latest games (besides CD check).
Go ahead and put this on your games/movies/others, they will learn soon enough what happens when a company gets too greedy the moment they do.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504931</id>
	<title>History Shows ...</title>
	<author>Nerdfest</author>
	<datestamp>1246212000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>History shows that MS may be in favour of this judging by the way they seem to have bowed to big media and crippled the Zune's wireless functionality. The device would have been awesome had that been implemented in a non-crippled way. It goes without saying that this is right up Sony's alley, and it's surprising they haven't tried it themselves. I'm not sure how Nintendo would come in on something like this. I've heard people don't even have the homebrew channel disabled when they get a Wii back from repair, and Nintendo does carry a lot of market weight these days.</htmltext>
<tokenext>History shows that MS may be in favour of this judging by the way they seem to have bowed to big media and crippled the Zune 's wireless functionality .
The device would have been awesome had that been implemented in a non-crippled way .
It goes without saying that this is right up Sony 's alley , and it 's surprising they have n't tried it themselves .
I 'm not sure how Nintendo would come in on something like this .
I 've heard people do n't even have the homebrew channel disabled when they get a Wii back from repair , and Nintendo does carry a lot of market weight these days .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>History shows that MS may be in favour of this judging by the way they seem to have bowed to big media and crippled the Zune's wireless functionality.
The device would have been awesome had that been implemented in a non-crippled way.
It goes without saying that this is right up Sony's alley, and it's surprising they haven't tried it themselves.
I'm not sure how Nintendo would come in on something like this.
I've heard people don't even have the homebrew channel disabled when they get a Wii back from repair, and Nintendo does carry a lot of market weight these days.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28512711</id>
	<title>Re:It's about killing the Pre-release</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246282620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>On the subject of the used market, publishers will be shooting themselves in the feet if they want to go ahead with killing the used market. It's estimated that a substantial number of new game buyers partially fund their games buying through trading in their old titles. So the loss of the used market will more than likely have a negative effect on new sales close to the value of</p> </div><p>Your statistic on comsumers buying new games using money from used games is probably not applicable. Yes, I'm sure many new game purchases are made using some money from used game trade-ins. But this isn't because it's the only way a consumer can possibly afford the new game, it's just because they happen to have the money in their pocket, and they're at the game store. Corrilation does not imply causation and all that. I'm not ready to believe that the publishing companies need the used game industry in any way.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>On the subject of the used market , publishers will be shooting themselves in the feet if they want to go ahead with killing the used market .
It 's estimated that a substantial number of new game buyers partially fund their games buying through trading in their old titles .
So the loss of the used market will more than likely have a negative effect on new sales close to the value of Your statistic on comsumers buying new games using money from used games is probably not applicable .
Yes , I 'm sure many new game purchases are made using some money from used game trade-ins .
But this is n't because it 's the only way a consumer can possibly afford the new game , it 's just because they happen to have the money in their pocket , and they 're at the game store .
Corrilation does not imply causation and all that .
I 'm not ready to believe that the publishing companies need the used game industry in any way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On the subject of the used market, publishers will be shooting themselves in the feet if they want to go ahead with killing the used market.
It's estimated that a substantial number of new game buyers partially fund their games buying through trading in their old titles.
So the loss of the used market will more than likely have a negative effect on new sales close to the value of Your statistic on comsumers buying new games using money from used games is probably not applicable.
Yes, I'm sure many new game purchases are made using some money from used game trade-ins.
But this isn't because it's the only way a consumer can possibly afford the new game, it's just because they happen to have the money in their pocket, and they're at the game store.
Corrilation does not imply causation and all that.
I'm not ready to believe that the publishing companies need the used game industry in any way.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505507</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28516805</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246301880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Some of you seem to be missing the point here.  99\% of retailers keep their stock(vg/accessories) behind a locked cabinet/doors.  If someone is stealing that they're friggin Houdini.  So no, this isn't to stop theft.  This isn't to deter piracy(as expected) this is to generate revenue streams from retailers.  This isn't about you and me, it's about them and them.  These services aren't free and the creators of a mainstream system will generate millions in revenue without actually doing much.  Yeah they're system will break down and you won't be able to activate or re-activate a game or movie when you want to but that's not their problem now is it?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Some of you seem to be missing the point here .
99 \ % of retailers keep their stock ( vg/accessories ) behind a locked cabinet/doors .
If someone is stealing that they 're friggin Houdini .
So no , this is n't to stop theft .
This is n't to deter piracy ( as expected ) this is to generate revenue streams from retailers .
This is n't about you and me , it 's about them and them .
These services are n't free and the creators of a mainstream system will generate millions in revenue without actually doing much .
Yeah they 're system will break down and you wo n't be able to activate or re-activate a game or movie when you want to but that 's not their problem now is it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Some of you seem to be missing the point here.
99\% of retailers keep their stock(vg/accessories) behind a locked cabinet/doors.
If someone is stealing that they're friggin Houdini.
So no, this isn't to stop theft.
This isn't to deter piracy(as expected) this is to generate revenue streams from retailers.
This isn't about you and me, it's about them and them.
These services aren't free and the creators of a mainstream system will generate millions in revenue without actually doing much.
Yeah they're system will break down and you won't be able to activate or re-activate a game or movie when you want to but that's not their problem now is it?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28515877</id>
	<title>Re:It's about killing the Pre-release</title>
	<author>Amphetam1ne</author>
	<datestamp>1246298340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I know of a few that wouldn't cut out their new purchases entirely, but would certainly buy in less quantity. Also it may lead to a lot more people using sites like gamestracker, where you find the game you want, put in the price you want to pay for it and let the site email you when one of the thousands of retailers they do a daily price-scan on has it for that price. It'll be just as good in a couple of months as it is on day 1. Believe me when I say that virtually all new releases will be offered at a sub &#194;&pound;15 price point within the first 3 months of release. Someone will get a massive overstock, be using it as a loss leader or whatever. If you're late to the market because you didn't buy the console in the 1st year then you've already got a huge back catalogue of cheap titles to get you started as well! I won't say that the loss of the used market would do massive damage to the new market, but it would likely push people to wait longer and get titles from the mid-price and budget ranges.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I know of a few that would n't cut out their new purchases entirely , but would certainly buy in less quantity .
Also it may lead to a lot more people using sites like gamestracker , where you find the game you want , put in the price you want to pay for it and let the site email you when one of the thousands of retailers they do a daily price-scan on has it for that price .
It 'll be just as good in a couple of months as it is on day 1 .
Believe me when I say that virtually all new releases will be offered at a sub     15 price point within the first 3 months of release .
Someone will get a massive overstock , be using it as a loss leader or whatever .
If you 're late to the market because you did n't buy the console in the 1st year then you 've already got a huge back catalogue of cheap titles to get you started as well !
I wo n't say that the loss of the used market would do massive damage to the new market , but it would likely push people to wait longer and get titles from the mid-price and budget ranges .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I know of a few that wouldn't cut out their new purchases entirely, but would certainly buy in less quantity.
Also it may lead to a lot more people using sites like gamestracker, where you find the game you want, put in the price you want to pay for it and let the site email you when one of the thousands of retailers they do a daily price-scan on has it for that price.
It'll be just as good in a couple of months as it is on day 1.
Believe me when I say that virtually all new releases will be offered at a sub Â£15 price point within the first 3 months of release.
Someone will get a massive overstock, be using it as a loss leader or whatever.
If you're late to the market because you didn't buy the console in the 1st year then you've already got a huge back catalogue of cheap titles to get you started as well!
I won't say that the loss of the used market would do massive damage to the new market, but it would likely push people to wait longer and get titles from the mid-price and budget ranges.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28512711</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505325</id>
	<title>No more right of first sale</title>
	<author>woboyle</author>
	<datestamp>1246214580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is just another example how big media is trying to circumvent the right of first sale. They would prefer that you aren't purchasing the product, but rather a non-transferable license to use the product. This effort must be thwarted at all costs, or pretty soon we won't be able to "own" anything...</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is just another example how big media is trying to circumvent the right of first sale .
They would prefer that you are n't purchasing the product , but rather a non-transferable license to use the product .
This effort must be thwarted at all costs , or pretty soon we wo n't be able to " own " anything.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is just another example how big media is trying to circumvent the right of first sale.
They would prefer that you aren't purchasing the product, but rather a non-transferable license to use the product.
This effort must be thwarted at all costs, or pretty soon we won't be able to "own" anything...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28514699</id>
	<title>Oversight</title>
	<author>Akir</author>
	<datestamp>1246293420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You forget, EMA, that that extra $6B IS ALSO GOING TO BE THE $6B THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO SPEND ON GAMES THE NEXT TIME AROUND!<br> <br>

I may be exaggerating, but meh.<br> <br>

Well, this new activation scheme may be a good thing. After they put that into effect, the cracking groups will become so popular that they'll establish their own publishers who won't deal with this crap.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You forget , EMA , that that extra $ 6B IS ALSO GOING TO BE THE $ 6B THEY WO N'T BE ABLE TO SPEND ON GAMES THE NEXT TIME AROUND !
I may be exaggerating , but meh .
Well , this new activation scheme may be a good thing .
After they put that into effect , the cracking groups will become so popular that they 'll establish their own publishers who wo n't deal with this crap .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You forget, EMA, that that extra $6B IS ALSO GOING TO BE THE $6B THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO SPEND ON GAMES THE NEXT TIME AROUND!
I may be exaggerating, but meh.
Well, this new activation scheme may be a good thing.
After they put that into effect, the cracking groups will become so popular that they'll establish their own publishers who won't deal with this crap.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504921</id>
	<title>This solves nothing until ...</title>
	<author>c0d3g33k</author>
	<datestamp>1246211940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>... they figure out a way around the "I won't buy it" problem.  The sales lost to "I won't buy it" and "I don't know you exist" and "I'm not really interested in your game" and "How much? You have got to be kidding" and "No, I won't buy you that game - you just had your birthday and Christmas is 5 months away" and "I really need to pay the rent - I can't buy that game right now" and "I'll just take a walk instead" and "Wow - that sounds like a great book - I'll buy that instead of that game" vastly outnumber the number of sales lost to piracy.

Give people a reason to buy the game, and they will do so, should they be so inclined.  Give people more reasons not to buy the game and they will gladly comply as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... they figure out a way around the " I wo n't buy it " problem .
The sales lost to " I wo n't buy it " and " I do n't know you exist " and " I 'm not really interested in your game " and " How much ?
You have got to be kidding " and " No , I wo n't buy you that game - you just had your birthday and Christmas is 5 months away " and " I really need to pay the rent - I ca n't buy that game right now " and " I 'll just take a walk instead " and " Wow - that sounds like a great book - I 'll buy that instead of that game " vastly outnumber the number of sales lost to piracy .
Give people a reason to buy the game , and they will do so , should they be so inclined .
Give people more reasons not to buy the game and they will gladly comply as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... they figure out a way around the "I won't buy it" problem.
The sales lost to "I won't buy it" and "I don't know you exist" and "I'm not really interested in your game" and "How much?
You have got to be kidding" and "No, I won't buy you that game - you just had your birthday and Christmas is 5 months away" and "I really need to pay the rent - I can't buy that game right now" and "I'll just take a walk instead" and "Wow - that sounds like a great book - I'll buy that instead of that game" vastly outnumber the number of sales lost to piracy.
Give people a reason to buy the game, and they will do so, should they be so inclined.
Give people more reasons not to buy the game and they will gladly comply as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28504823</id>
	<title>The big problem with these numbers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246211280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>How can you ever know how many pirates would ever purchase your product?  I do think that piracy is hurting these companies, but they can't keep making the assumption that there's a goldmine of potential customers out there if only they figure out a way to make acquiring their products <i>even more</i> difficult.  I'm pissed off enough with the way my HDMI connections constantly flake out or introduce annoying delays into my home theater setup.  Now, how are people like my Luddite parents going to react to yet another hurdle?  Content providers need to do some serious soul searching to see how many people they're <i>deterring</i> as opposed to the numbers they think they'll draw in from the shadows.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How can you ever know how many pirates would ever purchase your product ?
I do think that piracy is hurting these companies , but they ca n't keep making the assumption that there 's a goldmine of potential customers out there if only they figure out a way to make acquiring their products even more difficult .
I 'm pissed off enough with the way my HDMI connections constantly flake out or introduce annoying delays into my home theater setup .
Now , how are people like my Luddite parents going to react to yet another hurdle ?
Content providers need to do some serious soul searching to see how many people they 're deterring as opposed to the numbers they think they 'll draw in from the shadows .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How can you ever know how many pirates would ever purchase your product?
I do think that piracy is hurting these companies, but they can't keep making the assumption that there's a goldmine of potential customers out there if only they figure out a way to make acquiring their products even more difficult.
I'm pissed off enough with the way my HDMI connections constantly flake out or introduce annoying delays into my home theater setup.
Now, how are people like my Luddite parents going to react to yet another hurdle?
Content providers need to do some serious soul searching to see how many people they're deterring as opposed to the numbers they think they'll draw in from the shadows.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505339</id>
	<title>The value of things</title>
	<author>erroneus</author>
	<datestamp>1246214640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I realize my perspective on what the value of something is might be a little strange, but I hold that it is quite logical.</p><p>I don't buy diamonds primarily because of the blood and scandal associated with them, but also because of the resale value problem.  "Used diamonds" sell for SIGNIFICANTLY less than "New diamonds."  Why is that?  The real and true value of diamonds must be closer to that of used diamonds than that of new.  I also don't buy "new cars" for the same reason.  There is a huge loss in price between the two states of new and used and it's not equal to or less than the value of the use I get from it in my opinion.  Therefore new cars represent a big waste of money and is a bad investment... same as diamonds.</p><p>How does this reflect on the topic?  Simple.  This "activated at POS" notion serves only to limit or kill the resale potential for a single title.  They seek to control not only the copyright, but also the access to the media.  And without the possibility of being able to resell the games or music or movies one has purchased, you are looking at an even greater disparity between the first sale price and the resale value.  When they decide a title is no longer available or eligible for activation, the owner's purchase becomes completely worthless.  (And let's say a game activation was tied to an XBOX Live or similar account system and for whatever reason, the XBOX Live account is no longer available and the same person needs to create another account... will he be able to take his game activations over to the new account?  I DOUBT IT.  This could mean the loss of several hundred or possibly more than thousands of dollars of first owner cost at the discretion of the policy of the hosts of the accounts used to manage activations.)  This is a step worse than the "DRM nightmares" that people have encountered when DRM content providers shut down servers or their servers fail or their data is somehow lost or corrupted resulting in the loss of access to content that the user legally paid for.</p><p>This is yet another way in which the public domain becomes a casualty of the greed of copyrighted content owners.  We seriously need to crank up the volume when it comes to expressing the loss of the public domain to legislators.  Large parts of our history and culture have been lost forever already due to the way copyright is abusing the public's good faith.  (Yes, I said good faith because MOST consumers don't infringe on copyrights... MOST don't have a clue as to how they can even do it.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I realize my perspective on what the value of something is might be a little strange , but I hold that it is quite logical.I do n't buy diamonds primarily because of the blood and scandal associated with them , but also because of the resale value problem .
" Used diamonds " sell for SIGNIFICANTLY less than " New diamonds .
" Why is that ?
The real and true value of diamonds must be closer to that of used diamonds than that of new .
I also do n't buy " new cars " for the same reason .
There is a huge loss in price between the two states of new and used and it 's not equal to or less than the value of the use I get from it in my opinion .
Therefore new cars represent a big waste of money and is a bad investment... same as diamonds.How does this reflect on the topic ?
Simple. This " activated at POS " notion serves only to limit or kill the resale potential for a single title .
They seek to control not only the copyright , but also the access to the media .
And without the possibility of being able to resell the games or music or movies one has purchased , you are looking at an even greater disparity between the first sale price and the resale value .
When they decide a title is no longer available or eligible for activation , the owner 's purchase becomes completely worthless .
( And let 's say a game activation was tied to an XBOX Live or similar account system and for whatever reason , the XBOX Live account is no longer available and the same person needs to create another account... will he be able to take his game activations over to the new account ?
I DOUBT IT .
This could mean the loss of several hundred or possibly more than thousands of dollars of first owner cost at the discretion of the policy of the hosts of the accounts used to manage activations .
) This is a step worse than the " DRM nightmares " that people have encountered when DRM content providers shut down servers or their servers fail or their data is somehow lost or corrupted resulting in the loss of access to content that the user legally paid for.This is yet another way in which the public domain becomes a casualty of the greed of copyrighted content owners .
We seriously need to crank up the volume when it comes to expressing the loss of the public domain to legislators .
Large parts of our history and culture have been lost forever already due to the way copyright is abusing the public 's good faith .
( Yes , I said good faith because MOST consumers do n't infringe on copyrights... MOST do n't have a clue as to how they can even do it .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I realize my perspective on what the value of something is might be a little strange, but I hold that it is quite logical.I don't buy diamonds primarily because of the blood and scandal associated with them, but also because of the resale value problem.
"Used diamonds" sell for SIGNIFICANTLY less than "New diamonds.
"  Why is that?
The real and true value of diamonds must be closer to that of used diamonds than that of new.
I also don't buy "new cars" for the same reason.
There is a huge loss in price between the two states of new and used and it's not equal to or less than the value of the use I get from it in my opinion.
Therefore new cars represent a big waste of money and is a bad investment... same as diamonds.How does this reflect on the topic?
Simple.  This "activated at POS" notion serves only to limit or kill the resale potential for a single title.
They seek to control not only the copyright, but also the access to the media.
And without the possibility of being able to resell the games or music or movies one has purchased, you are looking at an even greater disparity between the first sale price and the resale value.
When they decide a title is no longer available or eligible for activation, the owner's purchase becomes completely worthless.
(And let's say a game activation was tied to an XBOX Live or similar account system and for whatever reason, the XBOX Live account is no longer available and the same person needs to create another account... will he be able to take his game activations over to the new account?
I DOUBT IT.
This could mean the loss of several hundred or possibly more than thousands of dollars of first owner cost at the discretion of the policy of the hosts of the accounts used to manage activations.
)  This is a step worse than the "DRM nightmares" that people have encountered when DRM content providers shut down servers or their servers fail or their data is somehow lost or corrupted resulting in the loss of access to content that the user legally paid for.This is yet another way in which the public domain becomes a casualty of the greed of copyrighted content owners.
We seriously need to crank up the volume when it comes to expressing the loss of the public domain to legislators.
Large parts of our history and culture have been lost forever already due to the way copyright is abusing the public's good faith.
(Yes, I said good faith because MOST consumers don't infringe on copyrights... MOST don't have a clue as to how they can even do it.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28509695</id>
	<title>Re:No more right of first sale</title>
	<author>Doctor\_Jest</author>
	<datestamp>1246208880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Exactly.  They want to eliminate the right of first sale, selling licenses only, but do not want the burden of replacing media, and support of the license that they enjoy now as "you bought it, now give us $20 for a replacement disc".  It's getting pretty stupid, and soon even the die-hards will abandon the whole thing because of the incessant inconvenience of being a "valued customer."  Both Gamestop and eBay will suffer if the games lose their first sale...  and with giants like Best Buy and Amazon going after the used market... perhaps there will be more pushback from the retail community than we anticipate.  Here's to hoping.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Exactly .
They want to eliminate the right of first sale , selling licenses only , but do not want the burden of replacing media , and support of the license that they enjoy now as " you bought it , now give us $ 20 for a replacement disc " .
It 's getting pretty stupid , and soon even the die-hards will abandon the whole thing because of the incessant inconvenience of being a " valued customer .
" Both Gamestop and eBay will suffer if the games lose their first sale... and with giants like Best Buy and Amazon going after the used market... perhaps there will be more pushback from the retail community than we anticipate .
Here 's to hoping .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Exactly.
They want to eliminate the right of first sale, selling licenses only, but do not want the burden of replacing media, and support of the license that they enjoy now as "you bought it, now give us $20 for a replacement disc".
It's getting pretty stupid, and soon even the die-hards will abandon the whole thing because of the incessant inconvenience of being a "valued customer.
"  Both Gamestop and eBay will suffer if the games lose their first sale...  and with giants like Best Buy and Amazon going after the used market... perhaps there will be more pushback from the retail community than we anticipate.
Here's to hoping.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28505325</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1557215.28508679</id>
	<title>Nonspecific as to whom</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246198620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Generate $6 billion in revenue for *whom*?<br>I'm guessing it isn't the game creators.<br>Maybe the company selling this product?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Generate $ 6 billion in revenue for * whom * ? I 'm guessing it is n't the game creators.Maybe the company selling this product ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Generate $6 billion in revenue for *whom*?I'm guessing it isn't the game creators.Maybe the company selling this product?</sentencetext>
</comment>
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