<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_28_1538221</id>
	<title>India To Put All Citizen Info In a Central Database</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1246204500000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://psoug.org/reference/" rel="nofollow">Oracle Goddess</a> writes <i>"As part of a project to <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1195916/ID-cards-India-1-1billion-citizens-second-largest-citizens-database.html">issue ID cards for all 1.1 billion of its citizens</a>, India has announced plans to place information on every single citizen in what will be the world's second largest citizens' database. The government believes the scheme will aid the delivery of vital social services to the poorest people who often lack sufficient identification papers. It also sees the scheme as a way to tackle increasing amounts of identity fraud and theft, and, at a time of increased concern over the threat of militant violence, to boost national security and help police and law officials. '<a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/id-cards-planned-for-indias-11-billion-1721552.html">This could be used as a security measure by the government</a> which leaves migrant workers, refugees and other stateless people in India in limbo, without access to public services, employment and basic welfare,' said Charu Lata Hogg, an associate fellow of the Asia program at Chatham House."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Oracle Goddess writes " As part of a project to issue ID cards for all 1.1 billion of its citizens , India has announced plans to place information on every single citizen in what will be the world 's second largest citizens ' database .
The government believes the scheme will aid the delivery of vital social services to the poorest people who often lack sufficient identification papers .
It also sees the scheme as a way to tackle increasing amounts of identity fraud and theft , and , at a time of increased concern over the threat of militant violence , to boost national security and help police and law officials .
'This could be used as a security measure by the government which leaves migrant workers , refugees and other stateless people in India in limbo , without access to public services , employment and basic welfare, ' said Charu Lata Hogg , an associate fellow of the Asia program at Chatham House .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oracle Goddess writes "As part of a project to issue ID cards for all 1.1 billion of its citizens, India has announced plans to place information on every single citizen in what will be the world's second largest citizens' database.
The government believes the scheme will aid the delivery of vital social services to the poorest people who often lack sufficient identification papers.
It also sees the scheme as a way to tackle increasing amounts of identity fraud and theft, and, at a time of increased concern over the threat of militant violence, to boost national security and help police and law officials.
'This could be used as a security measure by the government which leaves migrant workers, refugees and other stateless people in India in limbo, without access to public services, employment and basic welfare,' said Charu Lata Hogg, an associate fellow of the Asia program at Chatham House.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28506553</id>
	<title>Re:Better than Google</title>
	<author>causality</author>
	<datestamp>1246179840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Sorry to burst your illusion of the wise philosopher king.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Isn't that what we all seem to want, in one form or another?  I read the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius (an emperor of Rome) and I see a noble, upright man, the sort of person who really should be running things.  Then I see how incredibly rare that actually is, how much of a joke our politicians really are when compared to this sort of standard, and it's a shame.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sorry to burst your illusion of the wise philosopher king .
Is n't that what we all seem to want , in one form or another ?
I read the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius ( an emperor of Rome ) and I see a noble , upright man , the sort of person who really should be running things .
Then I see how incredibly rare that actually is , how much of a joke our politicians really are when compared to this sort of standard , and it 's a shame .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sorry to burst your illusion of the wise philosopher king.
Isn't that what we all seem to want, in one form or another?
I read the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius (an emperor of Rome) and I see a noble, upright man, the sort of person who really should be running things.
Then I see how incredibly rare that actually is, how much of a joke our politicians really are when compared to this sort of standard, and it's a shame.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505143</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28506007</id>
	<title>Parent post is evidence why this is a bad idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246218900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Parent poster is the reason why such a National ID Card is a bad idea for India.</p><p>This card will become a means to make people prove their "Indianness".<br>This is a very bad idea in a nation as diverse and full of competing ethnic/religious/language groups as India.</p><p>People should not have to <b>prove</b> that they are Indian.<br>Making people do so will poison the soul of this nation and cause existing divisions in society to deepen rather than be healed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Parent poster is the reason why such a National ID Card is a bad idea for India.This card will become a means to make people prove their " Indianness " .This is a very bad idea in a nation as diverse and full of competing ethnic/religious/language groups as India.People should not have to prove that they are Indian.Making people do so will poison the soul of this nation and cause existing divisions in society to deepen rather than be healed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Parent poster is the reason why such a National ID Card is a bad idea for India.This card will become a means to make people prove their "Indianness".This is a very bad idea in a nation as diverse and full of competing ethnic/religious/language groups as India.People should not have to prove that they are Indian.Making people do so will poison the soul of this nation and cause existing divisions in society to deepen rather than be healed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504935</id>
	<title>$2 billion tax payers money.</title>
	<author>jawahar</author>
	<datestamp>1246212060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Instead of wasting $2 billion tax payers money on this UID project, Govt of India should have compulsorily issued PASSPORTS to all Indians at a nominal fee of 10 rupees, OR could have created bank accounts for Indians because <a href="http://in.rediff.com/money/2005/dec/01guest3.htm" title="rediff.com" rel="nofollow">85\% of them do not have them.</a> [rediff.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Instead of wasting $ 2 billion tax payers money on this UID project , Govt of India should have compulsorily issued PASSPORTS to all Indians at a nominal fee of 10 rupees , OR could have created bank accounts for Indians because 85 \ % of them do not have them .
[ rediff.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Instead of wasting $2 billion tax payers money on this UID project, Govt of India should have compulsorily issued PASSPORTS to all Indians at a nominal fee of 10 rupees, OR could have created bank accounts for Indians because 85\% of them do not have them.
[rediff.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28522683</id>
	<title>Re:Old media needs to die, and boomers don't get i</title>
	<author>mano.m</author>
	<datestamp>1246283940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Boomers aren't the only ones fond of the New York Times. 'Old media' refers to the medium of delivery, not the content, the editorial stance, or the use of polysyllabic words. I for one like the old overlords.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Boomers are n't the only ones fond of the New York Times .
'Old media ' refers to the medium of delivery , not the content , the editorial stance , or the use of polysyllabic words .
I for one like the old overlords .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Boomers aren't the only ones fond of the New York Times.
'Old media' refers to the medium of delivery, not the content, the editorial stance, or the use of polysyllabic words.
I for one like the old overlords.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505627</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28510089</id>
	<title>Re:As an Indian Citizen, I welcome this</title>
	<author>ami.one</author>
	<datestamp>1246212660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And how will you know who is an illegal immigrant ? by starting to check ID cards on the road ? making it compulsory to have ID on you at all times ?

These illegal immigrants you talk about will get the ID card by hook or crook. Just like they have multiple ration cards right now.

The current election ID cards could as well have been used for this purpose. Its just another massive waste of our taxes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And how will you know who is an illegal immigrant ?
by starting to check ID cards on the road ?
making it compulsory to have ID on you at all times ?
These illegal immigrants you talk about will get the ID card by hook or crook .
Just like they have multiple ration cards right now .
The current election ID cards could as well have been used for this purpose .
Its just another massive waste of our taxes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And how will you know who is an illegal immigrant ?
by starting to check ID cards on the road ?
making it compulsory to have ID on you at all times ?
These illegal immigrants you talk about will get the ID card by hook or crook.
Just like they have multiple ration cards right now.
The current election ID cards could as well have been used for this purpose.
Its just another massive waste of our taxes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28515195</id>
	<title>Re:As an Indian Citizen, I welcome this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246295820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's just the Muslims you're going to target in your sights and "deport?" Or will the Hindutva use this system to "deport" the Christians / Buddhists / whoever else they don't like? They're doing a good enough job of all that as it stands; they don't need help.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's just the Muslims you 're going to target in your sights and " deport ?
" Or will the Hindutva use this system to " deport " the Christians / Buddhists / whoever else they do n't like ?
They 're doing a good enough job of all that as it stands ; they do n't need help .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's just the Muslims you're going to target in your sights and "deport?
" Or will the Hindutva use this system to "deport" the Christians / Buddhists / whoever else they don't like?
They're doing a good enough job of all that as it stands; they don't need help.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504781</id>
	<title>1.1 billion and counting</title>
	<author>smooth123</author>
	<datestamp>1246211100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>1.1 billion, is for the indians still residing in India, what about the millions on non resident visas all around the world....</htmltext>
<tokenext>1.1 billion , is for the indians still residing in India , what about the millions on non resident visas all around the world... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.1 billion, is for the indians still residing in India, what about the millions on non resident visas all around the world....</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504925</id>
	<title>Re:Better than Google</title>
	<author>causality</author>
	<datestamp>1246212000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I think it's not terrible that a government have a working list of its citizens, especially if they put vital medical and other data on it. This can save lives and can get us more accurate reporting about how important it is to, say, find a cure for AIDS over a cure for cancer.</p></div></blockquote><p>
So sell its virtues and then tell everyone where they can sign up.  Voluntarily.  Make it opt-in only, so anyone who doesn't want this isn't forced to participate.  In the case of minor children, let their parents decide.
<br> <br>
You ever wonder why these systems don't fit the description I just gave you?  Really, do you ever seriously think about why such voluntary participation isn't considered a basic design requirement?</p><blockquote><div><p>We're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we've lost sight of the basic truth: it matters who you get into government, and how willing they are to fight back corruption (entropy). We can't regulate government into sanity. But we can pick sane people, although mass media democracy isn't so good at that.</p></div></blockquote><p>
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."  Thomas Jefferson said that, and he's not the only person throughout history to make a similar observation.
<br> <br>
I don't know the situation in India but if they're smart, they will be very careful to avoid the two-party system like what we have in the USA.  The two parties are a duopoly designed to create significant barriers to entry in order to prevent any other political forces from taking power.  Don't look at who is running for office.  Look at who is sponsoring him.  Then look at who's sponsoring his "opposition."  Hey, that's strange, the same list of banks and corporations is sponsoring both candidates!  Why, it's almost as though they don't care who wins, like they would get what they want either way!
<br> <br>
This makes it quite difficult to "pick sane people."  Speaking generally, we don't have a situation where average people who are willing to work hard can succeed in politics.  We have a ruling class.  It necessarily follows that their interests are not the same as those of the people.</p><blockquote><div><p>Letting Google keep records on who we are may be more destructive. A former friend turns enemy blogs about you? That's what the world will know of you when they Google you. Erroneous articles, conviction by public opinion? Just as corrupt as any corrupt government, but not as visible.</p></div></blockquote><p>
The major difference is that I have a lot more control over whether Google knows anything about me.  All I have to do is either not use their services or very carefully use their services and they aren't going to have information on me that wasn't publically available anyway.  Their google-analytics site resolves to localhost on all machines/networks I control and I otherwise go out of my way to take care of this.  There is no such option with government.
<br> <br>
Not sure what you mean about erroneous articles, though that sounds like what libel/slander laws are for.
<br> <br>
The rest involves being very careful about who your friends are.  A lot of people think betrayals and such are impossible to foresee, merely because they did not have the foresight.  Really though, it's not too difficult to know if you are dealing with loving people who really do have your best interests at heart.  At least, not if you have ever seen what this looks like and appreciated what you saw.  That's something to value and appreciate because it is right and good, and for no other reason, though it does have the side-effect of preventing the sort of scenario you are describing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's not terrible that a government have a working list of its citizens , especially if they put vital medical and other data on it .
This can save lives and can get us more accurate reporting about how important it is to , say , find a cure for AIDS over a cure for cancer .
So sell its virtues and then tell everyone where they can sign up .
Voluntarily. Make it opt-in only , so anyone who does n't want this is n't forced to participate .
In the case of minor children , let their parents decide .
You ever wonder why these systems do n't fit the description I just gave you ?
Really , do you ever seriously think about why such voluntary participation is n't considered a basic design requirement ? We 're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we 've lost sight of the basic truth : it matters who you get into government , and how willing they are to fight back corruption ( entropy ) .
We ca n't regulate government into sanity .
But we can pick sane people , although mass media democracy is n't so good at that .
" The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground .
" Thomas Jefferson said that , and he 's not the only person throughout history to make a similar observation .
I do n't know the situation in India but if they 're smart , they will be very careful to avoid the two-party system like what we have in the USA .
The two parties are a duopoly designed to create significant barriers to entry in order to prevent any other political forces from taking power .
Do n't look at who is running for office .
Look at who is sponsoring him .
Then look at who 's sponsoring his " opposition .
" Hey , that 's strange , the same list of banks and corporations is sponsoring both candidates !
Why , it 's almost as though they do n't care who wins , like they would get what they want either way !
This makes it quite difficult to " pick sane people .
" Speaking generally , we do n't have a situation where average people who are willing to work hard can succeed in politics .
We have a ruling class .
It necessarily follows that their interests are not the same as those of the people.Letting Google keep records on who we are may be more destructive .
A former friend turns enemy blogs about you ?
That 's what the world will know of you when they Google you .
Erroneous articles , conviction by public opinion ?
Just as corrupt as any corrupt government , but not as visible .
The major difference is that I have a lot more control over whether Google knows anything about me .
All I have to do is either not use their services or very carefully use their services and they are n't going to have information on me that was n't publically available anyway .
Their google-analytics site resolves to localhost on all machines/networks I control and I otherwise go out of my way to take care of this .
There is no such option with government .
Not sure what you mean about erroneous articles , though that sounds like what libel/slander laws are for .
The rest involves being very careful about who your friends are .
A lot of people think betrayals and such are impossible to foresee , merely because they did not have the foresight .
Really though , it 's not too difficult to know if you are dealing with loving people who really do have your best interests at heart .
At least , not if you have ever seen what this looks like and appreciated what you saw .
That 's something to value and appreciate because it is right and good , and for no other reason , though it does have the side-effect of preventing the sort of scenario you are describing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's not terrible that a government have a working list of its citizens, especially if they put vital medical and other data on it.
This can save lives and can get us more accurate reporting about how important it is to, say, find a cure for AIDS over a cure for cancer.
So sell its virtues and then tell everyone where they can sign up.
Voluntarily.  Make it opt-in only, so anyone who doesn't want this isn't forced to participate.
In the case of minor children, let their parents decide.
You ever wonder why these systems don't fit the description I just gave you?
Really, do you ever seriously think about why such voluntary participation isn't considered a basic design requirement?We're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we've lost sight of the basic truth: it matters who you get into government, and how willing they are to fight back corruption (entropy).
We can't regulate government into sanity.
But we can pick sane people, although mass media democracy isn't so good at that.
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.
"  Thomas Jefferson said that, and he's not the only person throughout history to make a similar observation.
I don't know the situation in India but if they're smart, they will be very careful to avoid the two-party system like what we have in the USA.
The two parties are a duopoly designed to create significant barriers to entry in order to prevent any other political forces from taking power.
Don't look at who is running for office.
Look at who is sponsoring him.
Then look at who's sponsoring his "opposition.
"  Hey, that's strange, the same list of banks and corporations is sponsoring both candidates!
Why, it's almost as though they don't care who wins, like they would get what they want either way!
This makes it quite difficult to "pick sane people.
"  Speaking generally, we don't have a situation where average people who are willing to work hard can succeed in politics.
We have a ruling class.
It necessarily follows that their interests are not the same as those of the people.Letting Google keep records on who we are may be more destructive.
A former friend turns enemy blogs about you?
That's what the world will know of you when they Google you.
Erroneous articles, conviction by public opinion?
Just as corrupt as any corrupt government, but not as visible.
The major difference is that I have a lot more control over whether Google knows anything about me.
All I have to do is either not use their services or very carefully use their services and they aren't going to have information on me that wasn't publically available anyway.
Their google-analytics site resolves to localhost on all machines/networks I control and I otherwise go out of my way to take care of this.
There is no such option with government.
Not sure what you mean about erroneous articles, though that sounds like what libel/slander laws are for.
The rest involves being very careful about who your friends are.
A lot of people think betrayals and such are impossible to foresee, merely because they did not have the foresight.
Really though, it's not too difficult to know if you are dealing with loving people who really do have your best interests at heart.
At least, not if you have ever seen what this looks like and appreciated what you saw.
That's something to value and appreciate because it is right and good, and for no other reason, though it does have the side-effect of preventing the sort of scenario you are describing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28514267</id>
	<title>Re:As an Indian Citizen, I welcome this</title>
	<author>bhagwad</author>
	<datestamp>1246291560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Grand Parent poster is only talking about himself. There is no such thing as a "typical Indian nature." - he's trying to project his values onto others.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Grand Parent poster is only talking about himself .
There is no such thing as a " typical Indian nature .
" - he 's trying to project his values onto others .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Grand Parent poster is only talking about himself.
There is no such thing as a "typical Indian nature.
" - he's trying to project his values onto others.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504511</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>Alarindris</author>
	<datestamp>1246209540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>You shouldn't assume because it makes an ass out of 'U' and me.</p> </div><p>No.  Assuming makes and <b>assu</b> out of <i>me</i>.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You should n't assume because it makes an ass out of 'U ' and me .
No. Assuming makes and assu out of me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You shouldn't assume because it makes an ass out of 'U' and me.
No.  Assuming makes and assu out of me.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504625</id>
	<title>There was once this guy named mao</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246210260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look, privacy is gone. You want to see the future? Read CFR monographs.</p><p>If you use the net (even if you think you're being tricky with Tor and Pgp and steg), your secrets are already revealed. And stored. Not to mention available for later analysis. People who think they're crypto experts will laugh at the RIAA but never realize that what applies to the RIAA applies equally to their own SEKRIT information.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , privacy is gone .
You want to see the future ?
Read CFR monographs.If you use the net ( even if you think you 're being tricky with Tor and Pgp and steg ) , your secrets are already revealed .
And stored .
Not to mention available for later analysis .
People who think they 're crypto experts will laugh at the RIAA but never realize that what applies to the RIAA applies equally to their own SEKRIT information .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, privacy is gone.
You want to see the future?
Read CFR monographs.If you use the net (even if you think you're being tricky with Tor and Pgp and steg), your secrets are already revealed.
And stored.
Not to mention available for later analysis.
People who think they're crypto experts will laugh at the RIAA but never realize that what applies to the RIAA applies equally to their own SEKRIT information.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504343</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504883</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246211700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...<br>--<br>GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social expe</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...--GENERATION 25 : The first time you see this , copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation .
Social expe</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...--GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Social expe</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504511</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28506577</id>
	<title>Re:Better than Google</title>
	<author>causality</author>
	<datestamp>1246180020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>The day I fear is the day that it is mandated all citizens must carry a national ID under penalty of law.</p></div></blockquote><p>
Anyone who doesn't understand why that day is absolutely inevitable once the systems are in place, should not be allowed to vote or run for office.
<br> <br>
I don't derive any enjoyment from saying such a thing, but whether I enjoy it or not, it's true.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The day I fear is the day that it is mandated all citizens must carry a national ID under penalty of law .
Anyone who does n't understand why that day is absolutely inevitable once the systems are in place , should not be allowed to vote or run for office .
I do n't derive any enjoyment from saying such a thing , but whether I enjoy it or not , it 's true .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The day I fear is the day that it is mandated all citizens must carry a national ID under penalty of law.
Anyone who doesn't understand why that day is absolutely inevitable once the systems are in place, should not be allowed to vote or run for office.
I don't derive any enjoyment from saying such a thing, but whether I enjoy it or not, it's true.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505359</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504615</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>Warlord88</author>
	<datestamp>1246210140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have no idea what is the project cost. But I really wish the government would spend the money on development of infrastructure. When <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south\_asia/8123012.stm" title="bbc.co.uk" rel="nofollow"> the capital faces up to ten hours of power cuts per day</a> [bbc.co.uk], you can imagine the state of rest of the country. More often than not, such large scale projects are a way for government officials to accept huge bribes. Corruption is rampant in India and I doubt that the project is undertaken for the 'common good'. It sounds good for developed nations, not for India which is still referred to as third-world nation.

<p>Not many in India would be concerned about privacy issues if the system does deliver and actually helps people</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have no idea what is the project cost .
But I really wish the government would spend the money on development of infrastructure .
When the capital faces up to ten hours of power cuts per day [ bbc.co.uk ] , you can imagine the state of rest of the country .
More often than not , such large scale projects are a way for government officials to accept huge bribes .
Corruption is rampant in India and I doubt that the project is undertaken for the 'common good' .
It sounds good for developed nations , not for India which is still referred to as third-world nation .
Not many in India would be concerned about privacy issues if the system does deliver and actually helps people</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have no idea what is the project cost.
But I really wish the government would spend the money on development of infrastructure.
When  the capital faces up to ten hours of power cuts per day [bbc.co.uk], you can imagine the state of rest of the country.
More often than not, such large scale projects are a way for government officials to accept huge bribes.
Corruption is rampant in India and I doubt that the project is undertaken for the 'common good'.
It sounds good for developed nations, not for India which is still referred to as third-world nation.
Not many in India would be concerned about privacy issues if the system does deliver and actually helps people</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504343</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28510225</id>
	<title>Amazing! the depths of ignorance</title>
	<author>kromagnon</author>
	<datestamp>1246213920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Its not an accident that the both the ruling party and the opposition party are hyping this as a panacea for citizen convenience and national security. These scum that have come into power by election fraud want to retain power at all costs and control citizens. Read George Orwells 1984 and tell me you think this is an innocent development.<br><br>Do you know that India cannot provide basic health and education to its citizens. And these floozies claim, that having a citizen database will solve the common mans problems. How about they spend this money on cutting down the government and making it more efficient. One reason for the lack of transparency in India is that the government is so huge, that no one knows what is going on !!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Its not an accident that the both the ruling party and the opposition party are hyping this as a panacea for citizen convenience and national security .
These scum that have come into power by election fraud want to retain power at all costs and control citizens .
Read George Orwells 1984 and tell me you think this is an innocent development.Do you know that India can not provide basic health and education to its citizens .
And these floozies claim , that having a citizen database will solve the common mans problems .
How about they spend this money on cutting down the government and making it more efficient .
One reason for the lack of transparency in India is that the government is so huge , that no one knows what is going on !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Its not an accident that the both the ruling party and the opposition party are hyping this as a panacea for citizen convenience and national security.
These scum that have come into power by election fraud want to retain power at all costs and control citizens.
Read George Orwells 1984 and tell me you think this is an innocent development.Do you know that India cannot provide basic health and education to its citizens.
And these floozies claim, that having a citizen database will solve the common mans problems.
How about they spend this money on cutting down the government and making it more efficient.
One reason for the lack of transparency in India is that the government is so huge, that no one knows what is going on !
!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28509719</id>
	<title>Re:As an Indian Citizen, I welcome this</title>
	<author>bhagwad</author>
	<datestamp>1246209120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I am aware that Americans strongly believe in individual privacy and are only too eager to shudder and sneer at such measures. Privacy is a valid concern, but the need for privacy is stronger in the West and lesser in the East - one f those strange cultural differences - it simply matters less to us here. And in the hierarchy of needs, the rights of basic citizenship and access to government resources matters more than an individual need for privacy.</p></div><p>

Speak for yourself.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The risk of misuse, however, is not a sufficient argument against the very real need for introduction of such an identity system in our country.</p> </div><p>

The loss of my freedom and privacy <i>is</i> a sufficient argument against them. Do you think we fought and gave our lives for independence only to come under surveillance by other Indians? My privacy is so valuable to me because getting them back will be an extremely uphill task once people like you give it up easily.
<br> <br>

In addition, I think the <a href="http://bhagwad.com/blog/2009/06/is-privacy-a-legal-right-in-india.html" title="bhagwad.com" rel="nofollow">Supreme Court of India will agree with me</a> [bhagwad.com]. As soon as the cards are misused, someone will file a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public\_Interest\_Litigation" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">PIL</a> [wikipedia.org] that will teach the government (and people like you) that my rights are not to be screwed with.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am aware that Americans strongly believe in individual privacy and are only too eager to shudder and sneer at such measures .
Privacy is a valid concern , but the need for privacy is stronger in the West and lesser in the East - one f those strange cultural differences - it simply matters less to us here .
And in the hierarchy of needs , the rights of basic citizenship and access to government resources matters more than an individual need for privacy .
Speak for yourself.The risk of misuse , however , is not a sufficient argument against the very real need for introduction of such an identity system in our country .
The loss of my freedom and privacy is a sufficient argument against them .
Do you think we fought and gave our lives for independence only to come under surveillance by other Indians ?
My privacy is so valuable to me because getting them back will be an extremely uphill task once people like you give it up easily .
In addition , I think the Supreme Court of India will agree with me [ bhagwad.com ] .
As soon as the cards are misused , someone will file a PIL [ wikipedia.org ] that will teach the government ( and people like you ) that my rights are not to be screwed with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am aware that Americans strongly believe in individual privacy and are only too eager to shudder and sneer at such measures.
Privacy is a valid concern, but the need for privacy is stronger in the West and lesser in the East - one f those strange cultural differences - it simply matters less to us here.
And in the hierarchy of needs, the rights of basic citizenship and access to government resources matters more than an individual need for privacy.
Speak for yourself.The risk of misuse, however, is not a sufficient argument against the very real need for introduction of such an identity system in our country.
The loss of my freedom and privacy is a sufficient argument against them.
Do you think we fought and gave our lives for independence only to come under surveillance by other Indians?
My privacy is so valuable to me because getting them back will be an extremely uphill task once people like you give it up easily.
In addition, I think the Supreme Court of India will agree with me [bhagwad.com].
As soon as the cards are misused, someone will file a PIL [wikipedia.org] that will teach the government (and people like you) that my rights are not to be screwed with.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28507965</id>
	<title>Re:As an Indian Citizen, I welcome this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246192080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I imagine 'Indian citizen' translates to you as 'Hindu nationalist'. Yes, immigration is a problem and needs to be stopped, but I don't see what Islam has to do with it.

Also, I am an Indian and value my privacy. To assume that none of a billion-strong citizenry value their privacy is a rather far-fetched one.

The risk of misuse is substantial. In the Godhra riots, Muslim families and businesses were selected through the phone directory and targeted. A searchable database would be much worse.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I imagine 'Indian citizen ' translates to you as 'Hindu nationalist' .
Yes , immigration is a problem and needs to be stopped , but I do n't see what Islam has to do with it .
Also , I am an Indian and value my privacy .
To assume that none of a billion-strong citizenry value their privacy is a rather far-fetched one .
The risk of misuse is substantial .
In the Godhra riots , Muslim families and businesses were selected through the phone directory and targeted .
A searchable database would be much worse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I imagine 'Indian citizen' translates to you as 'Hindu nationalist'.
Yes, immigration is a problem and needs to be stopped, but I don't see what Islam has to do with it.
Also, I am an Indian and value my privacy.
To assume that none of a billion-strong citizenry value their privacy is a rather far-fetched one.
The risk of misuse is substantial.
In the Godhra riots, Muslim families and businesses were selected through the phone directory and targeted.
A searchable database would be much worse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28524479</id>
	<title>Re:As an Indian Citizen, I welcome this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246298880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is something that Supreme court of India wanted to be implemented long back to check illegal migration to north-east India and is necessary with the kind of problems that India has.</p><p>Having said that, I am not at all comfortable with Indian beauracrats, with their level of corruption, possesing this information. Hoping that this won't be misused, is all I can do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is something that Supreme court of India wanted to be implemented long back to check illegal migration to north-east India and is necessary with the kind of problems that India has.Having said that , I am not at all comfortable with Indian beauracrats , with their level of corruption , possesing this information .
Hoping that this wo n't be misused , is all I can do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is something that Supreme court of India wanted to be implemented long back to check illegal migration to north-east India and is necessary with the kind of problems that India has.Having said that, I am not at all comfortable with Indian beauracrats, with their level of corruption, possesing this information.
Hoping that this won't be misused, is all I can do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505461</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28509735</id>
	<title>India, sitting in B'lore and optimistic</title>
	<author>oxygen\_deprived</author>
	<datestamp>1246209300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>You are one of the privileged few who generate enough income to be above the threshold to pay taxes.Not the entire population of India has a PAN number or a ration card or any form of id whatsoever.

The central idea of the national id is NOT to track citizens. Its main aim is to counter the major malpractices that thwart the efficacy of public welfare programs, where government provided benefits are usurped fraudulently by intermediate crooks (some of whom are a part of the govt machinery)

Its the pessimism of the likes of you that holds us back.The kickbacks and under the table aspects are one of the major reasons why this has been entrusted to Nilekani.

Get your facts right. After a long long time we have a government that is trying to sincerely uplift the masses. If you cant support them, at least dont hinder them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You are one of the privileged few who generate enough income to be above the threshold to pay taxes.Not the entire population of India has a PAN number or a ration card or any form of id whatsoever .
The central idea of the national id is NOT to track citizens .
Its main aim is to counter the major malpractices that thwart the efficacy of public welfare programs , where government provided benefits are usurped fraudulently by intermediate crooks ( some of whom are a part of the govt machinery ) Its the pessimism of the likes of you that holds us back.The kickbacks and under the table aspects are one of the major reasons why this has been entrusted to Nilekani .
Get your facts right .
After a long long time we have a government that is trying to sincerely uplift the masses .
If you cant support them , at least dont hinder them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You are one of the privileged few who generate enough income to be above the threshold to pay taxes.Not the entire population of India has a PAN number or a ration card or any form of id whatsoever.
The central idea of the national id is NOT to track citizens.
Its main aim is to counter the major malpractices that thwart the efficacy of public welfare programs, where government provided benefits are usurped fraudulently by intermediate crooks (some of whom are a part of the govt machinery)

Its the pessimism of the likes of you that holds us back.The kickbacks and under the table aspects are one of the major reasons why this has been entrusted to Nilekani.
Get your facts right.
After a long long time we have a government that is trying to sincerely uplift the masses.
If you cant support them, at least dont hinder them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504739</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504447</id>
	<title>Not an issue</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246209120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I have seen their workmanship. THey will take forever to get it done and will have to quietly bring in outside help to do the work. Finally, the data will be incorrect, but they will blame others.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have seen their workmanship .
THey will take forever to get it done and will have to quietly bring in outside help to do the work .
Finally , the data will be incorrect , but they will blame others .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have seen their workmanship.
THey will take forever to get it done and will have to quietly bring in outside help to do the work.
Finally, the data will be incorrect, but they will blame others.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505175</id>
	<title>failazors...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246213560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>at tim3Cs. From</htmltext>
<tokenext>at tim3Cs .
From</tokentext>
<sentencetext>at tim3Cs.
From</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504779</id>
	<title>its ok</title>
	<author>binaryseraph</author>
	<datestamp>1246211040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>After all the outsourcing we have done there, I'm fairly sure they have all the US citizens info in one database too. Now that they have perfected it, time to pull in their own citizens info.</htmltext>
<tokenext>After all the outsourcing we have done there , I 'm fairly sure they have all the US citizens info in one database too .
Now that they have perfected it , time to pull in their own citizens info .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After all the outsourcing we have done there, I'm fairly sure they have all the US citizens info in one database too.
Now that they have perfected it, time to pull in their own citizens info.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504469</id>
	<title>Better than Google</title>
	<author>hessian</author>
	<datestamp>1246209180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it's not terrible that a government have a working list of its citizens, especially if they put vital medical and other data on it. This can save lives and can get us more accurate reporting about how important it is to, say, find a cure for AIDS over a cure for cancer.</p><p>Having an easy way to contact or locate any citizen is also important.</p><p>We're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we've lost sight of the basic truth: it matters who you get into government, and how willing they are to fight back corruption (entropy). We can't regulate government into sanity. But we can pick sane people, although mass media democracy isn't so good at that.</p><p>Instead of fighting back at any recordkeeping, we might consider the following:</p><ul><li>If we distrust government, we are forgetting that there are millions of ways government can wreck us that don't involve "Big Brother" scenarios. Bad wars. Corrupt economics. Allowing toxic waste to be in our groundwater. We don't see these as visibly as "Big Brother" scenarios, so we don't talk about them.</li><li>Letting Google keep records on who we are may be more destructive. A former friend turns enemy blogs about you? That's what the world will know of you when they Google you. Erroneous articles, conviction by public opinion? Just as corrupt as any corrupt government, but not as visible.</li></ul><p>People like to have something tangible and external to blame. It wasn't my fault; God did it. It wasn't my fault; The 1984 Government did it. Leftists claim government is capitalist and dominated by white men; Rightists claim government is socialist and against white men. It seems every group is projecting its fears outside of itself in order to claim innocence.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's not terrible that a government have a working list of its citizens , especially if they put vital medical and other data on it .
This can save lives and can get us more accurate reporting about how important it is to , say , find a cure for AIDS over a cure for cancer.Having an easy way to contact or locate any citizen is also important.We 're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we 've lost sight of the basic truth : it matters who you get into government , and how willing they are to fight back corruption ( entropy ) .
We ca n't regulate government into sanity .
But we can pick sane people , although mass media democracy is n't so good at that.Instead of fighting back at any recordkeeping , we might consider the following : If we distrust government , we are forgetting that there are millions of ways government can wreck us that do n't involve " Big Brother " scenarios .
Bad wars .
Corrupt economics .
Allowing toxic waste to be in our groundwater .
We do n't see these as visibly as " Big Brother " scenarios , so we do n't talk about them.Letting Google keep records on who we are may be more destructive .
A former friend turns enemy blogs about you ?
That 's what the world will know of you when they Google you .
Erroneous articles , conviction by public opinion ?
Just as corrupt as any corrupt government , but not as visible.People like to have something tangible and external to blame .
It was n't my fault ; God did it .
It was n't my fault ; The 1984 Government did it .
Leftists claim government is capitalist and dominated by white men ; Rightists claim government is socialist and against white men .
It seems every group is projecting its fears outside of itself in order to claim innocence .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's not terrible that a government have a working list of its citizens, especially if they put vital medical and other data on it.
This can save lives and can get us more accurate reporting about how important it is to, say, find a cure for AIDS over a cure for cancer.Having an easy way to contact or locate any citizen is also important.We're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we've lost sight of the basic truth: it matters who you get into government, and how willing they are to fight back corruption (entropy).
We can't regulate government into sanity.
But we can pick sane people, although mass media democracy isn't so good at that.Instead of fighting back at any recordkeeping, we might consider the following:If we distrust government, we are forgetting that there are millions of ways government can wreck us that don't involve "Big Brother" scenarios.
Bad wars.
Corrupt economics.
Allowing toxic waste to be in our groundwater.
We don't see these as visibly as "Big Brother" scenarios, so we don't talk about them.Letting Google keep records on who we are may be more destructive.
A former friend turns enemy blogs about you?
That's what the world will know of you when they Google you.
Erroneous articles, conviction by public opinion?
Just as corrupt as any corrupt government, but not as visible.People like to have something tangible and external to blame.
It wasn't my fault; God did it.
It wasn't my fault; The 1984 Government did it.
Leftists claim government is capitalist and dominated by white men; Rightists claim government is socialist and against white men.
It seems every group is projecting its fears outside of itself in order to claim innocence.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28511341</id>
	<title>Threat to national security?</title>
	<author>rastoboy29</author>
	<datestamp>1246269120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>If my country ever got invaded, I'd sure hope we didn't have a central database of citizens the bad guys could get ahold of.</tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>If my country ever got invaded , I 'd sure hope we did n't have a central database of citizens the bad guys could get ahold of .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If my country ever got invaded, I'd sure hope we didn't have a central database of citizens the bad guys could get ahold of.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28509883</id>
	<title>Re:This will only lead to more corruption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246211040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I pay taxes. With them I buy civilization.
<br>
But almost all Indian Leadership (Sonia, Maya, Jaya, Pawar, Lalu, Advani etc) is unpatriotic and evade taxes by concealing their wealth.
India's richest sportsman Sachin Tendular shamelessly evaded taxes when he imported Ferrari sports car.
And Amitabh Bachchan, evaded taxes by claiming that he is a Farmer.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I pay taxes .
With them I buy civilization .
But almost all Indian Leadership ( Sonia , Maya , Jaya , Pawar , Lalu , Advani etc ) is unpatriotic and evade taxes by concealing their wealth .
India 's richest sportsman Sachin Tendular shamelessly evaded taxes when he imported Ferrari sports car .
And Amitabh Bachchan , evaded taxes by claiming that he is a Farmer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I pay taxes.
With them I buy civilization.
But almost all Indian Leadership (Sonia, Maya, Jaya, Pawar, Lalu, Advani etc) is unpatriotic and evade taxes by concealing their wealth.
India's richest sportsman Sachin Tendular shamelessly evaded taxes when he imported Ferrari sports car.
And Amitabh Bachchan, evaded taxes by claiming that he is a Farmer.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504997</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28507497</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246187820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I suspect that this is going to crash and burn anyway once it really gets deployed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I suspect that this is going to crash and burn anyway once it really gets deployed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suspect that this is going to crash and burn anyway once it really gets deployed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504343</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28514241</id>
	<title>Re:This will only lead to more corruption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246291440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Couldnt agree more. Infosys and its ilk - code coolie contractors with 0 innovation to their credit - will get more rich as theyve done for the last 15 yrs grabbing land from farmers wherever, however and whenever they can.</p><p>Margins on code coolie services having reached saturation due to competition from Chin to Africa, theyve been looking for new revenue streams. They want to turn 1 billion people into a humongous field testing lab, for everyone from pharma to cosmetics to neuromarketing co.s</p><p>They know, given India's genetic diversity - one of the highest in the world compared to other countries relatively homogenous populations - makes it an ideal testing ground for every product from condoms to nanotech. And demographic and biometric data of this population will be worth its weignt in gold.</p><p>Funny, the captcha for this post said "treasury"!</p><p>Thats the draw for these sills and pimp co.s that are driving this project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Couldnt agree more .
Infosys and its ilk - code coolie contractors with 0 innovation to their credit - will get more rich as theyve done for the last 15 yrs grabbing land from farmers wherever , however and whenever they can.Margins on code coolie services having reached saturation due to competition from Chin to Africa , theyve been looking for new revenue streams .
They want to turn 1 billion people into a humongous field testing lab , for everyone from pharma to cosmetics to neuromarketing co.sThey know , given India 's genetic diversity - one of the highest in the world compared to other countries relatively homogenous populations - makes it an ideal testing ground for every product from condoms to nanotech .
And demographic and biometric data of this population will be worth its weignt in gold.Funny , the captcha for this post said " treasury " ! Thats the draw for these sills and pimp co.s that are driving this project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Couldnt agree more.
Infosys and its ilk - code coolie contractors with 0 innovation to their credit - will get more rich as theyve done for the last 15 yrs grabbing land from farmers wherever, however and whenever they can.Margins on code coolie services having reached saturation due to competition from Chin to Africa, theyve been looking for new revenue streams.
They want to turn 1 billion people into a humongous field testing lab, for everyone from pharma to cosmetics to neuromarketing co.sThey know, given India's genetic diversity - one of the highest in the world compared to other countries relatively homogenous populations - makes it an ideal testing ground for every product from condoms to nanotech.
And demographic and biometric data of this population will be worth its weignt in gold.Funny, the captcha for this post said "treasury"!Thats the draw for these sills and pimp co.s that are driving this project.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504997</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505435</id>
	<title>The basic problem...</title>
	<author>joh</author>
	<datestamp>1246215240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... is that *actually* we all would like to have a government that does not know anything about us and doesn't care who we are and what we do as long as we don't act as criminals or work in sensible areas.</p><p>This is a very simple thing to understand: As long as you don't mess around with your neighbours they don't need to know anything about you. As long as you don't mess around with your larger community it does not need to know anything about you. As long as you don't mess around with your government it does not need to know anything about you. In an ideal world you could be born, live and die without your government even knowing about you as long as you don't try to do something that harms the government or the community the government cares for.</p><p>Of course it doesn't work this way because there will always be a minority of people trying to get away from what they've done or who switch identities to be able to plot and steel and murder without being caught. And the more complex and mobile a society becomes the less you can rely on people not being able to exploit this. Nowadays and in the future this means that "leave me alone as long as I leave you alone" won't work anymore (if it ever did).</p><p>So, yes: There is no way around databases of citizens, identity cards and all this shit. The sooner we accept this, the better. Because once you have accepted this you can start to look at the real problem and the real problem is securing all this against abuse and tampering both by the government and interested third parties. The real problem is not someone knowing everything about you, the real problem is *you* knowing nothing about everyone else and the government (or corporations) having both the power and the freedom to abuse what they have.</p><p>And there are no simple solutions to all these problems. Todays highly virtualized, mobile and complex societies create totally new problems which need new solutions. We're not made for this and we have no build-in solutions to these problems. Every solution the ape in you suggests is probably wrong. Don't trust your first thoughts. We are building this world as we go and we can only try to do it as best as we can.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... is that * actually * we all would like to have a government that does not know anything about us and does n't care who we are and what we do as long as we do n't act as criminals or work in sensible areas.This is a very simple thing to understand : As long as you do n't mess around with your neighbours they do n't need to know anything about you .
As long as you do n't mess around with your larger community it does not need to know anything about you .
As long as you do n't mess around with your government it does not need to know anything about you .
In an ideal world you could be born , live and die without your government even knowing about you as long as you do n't try to do something that harms the government or the community the government cares for.Of course it does n't work this way because there will always be a minority of people trying to get away from what they 've done or who switch identities to be able to plot and steel and murder without being caught .
And the more complex and mobile a society becomes the less you can rely on people not being able to exploit this .
Nowadays and in the future this means that " leave me alone as long as I leave you alone " wo n't work anymore ( if it ever did ) .So , yes : There is no way around databases of citizens , identity cards and all this shit .
The sooner we accept this , the better .
Because once you have accepted this you can start to look at the real problem and the real problem is securing all this against abuse and tampering both by the government and interested third parties .
The real problem is not someone knowing everything about you , the real problem is * you * knowing nothing about everyone else and the government ( or corporations ) having both the power and the freedom to abuse what they have.And there are no simple solutions to all these problems .
Todays highly virtualized , mobile and complex societies create totally new problems which need new solutions .
We 're not made for this and we have no build-in solutions to these problems .
Every solution the ape in you suggests is probably wrong .
Do n't trust your first thoughts .
We are building this world as we go and we can only try to do it as best as we can .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... is that *actually* we all would like to have a government that does not know anything about us and doesn't care who we are and what we do as long as we don't act as criminals or work in sensible areas.This is a very simple thing to understand: As long as you don't mess around with your neighbours they don't need to know anything about you.
As long as you don't mess around with your larger community it does not need to know anything about you.
As long as you don't mess around with your government it does not need to know anything about you.
In an ideal world you could be born, live and die without your government even knowing about you as long as you don't try to do something that harms the government or the community the government cares for.Of course it doesn't work this way because there will always be a minority of people trying to get away from what they've done or who switch identities to be able to plot and steel and murder without being caught.
And the more complex and mobile a society becomes the less you can rely on people not being able to exploit this.
Nowadays and in the future this means that "leave me alone as long as I leave you alone" won't work anymore (if it ever did).So, yes: There is no way around databases of citizens, identity cards and all this shit.
The sooner we accept this, the better.
Because once you have accepted this you can start to look at the real problem and the real problem is securing all this against abuse and tampering both by the government and interested third parties.
The real problem is not someone knowing everything about you, the real problem is *you* knowing nothing about everyone else and the government (or corporations) having both the power and the freedom to abuse what they have.And there are no simple solutions to all these problems.
Todays highly virtualized, mobile and complex societies create totally new problems which need new solutions.
We're not made for this and we have no build-in solutions to these problems.
Every solution the ape in you suggests is probably wrong.
Don't trust your first thoughts.
We are building this world as we go and we can only try to do it as best as we can.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505215</id>
	<title>Re:Better than Google</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246213800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we've lost sight of the basic truth: it matters who you get into government, and how willing they are to fight back corruption (entropy). We can't regulate government into sanity. But we can pick sane people, although mass media democracy isn't so good at that..</p></div><p>Please don't lump everyone in with the anglos. The rest of the western world doesn't share your extreme paranoia about ID cards. Thanks, a (continental) EU citizen.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We 're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we 've lost sight of the basic truth : it matters who you get into government , and how willing they are to fight back corruption ( entropy ) .
We ca n't regulate government into sanity .
But we can pick sane people , although mass media democracy is n't so good at that..Please do n't lump everyone in with the anglos .
The rest of the western world does n't share your extreme paranoia about ID cards .
Thanks , a ( continental ) EU citizen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we've lost sight of the basic truth: it matters who you get into government, and how willing they are to fight back corruption (entropy).
We can't regulate government into sanity.
But we can pick sane people, although mass media democracy isn't so good at that..Please don't lump everyone in with the anglos.
The rest of the western world doesn't share your extreme paranoia about ID cards.
Thanks, a (continental) EU citizen.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504889</id>
	<title>Second largest?</title>
	<author>Tinctorius</author>
	<datestamp>1246211700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Before I read TFA, I kinda thought Google had the largest "citizens'" database...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Before I read TFA , I kinda thought Google had the largest " citizens ' " database.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Before I read TFA, I kinda thought Google had the largest "citizens'" database...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504337</id>
	<title>1st post</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246208340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1st post</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1st post</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1st post</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504865</id>
	<title>the ultimate IT make-work program</title>
	<author>NicknamesAreStupid</author>
	<datestamp>1246211580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They will need to hire China to administer it (lower IT costs there).</htmltext>
<tokenext>They will need to hire China to administer it ( lower IT costs there ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They will need to hire China to administer it (lower IT costs there).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504701</id>
	<title>Yes, I have karma to burn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246210620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't normally reply to myself but something could be added to this:<blockquote><div><p>The man had a sense of humor.</p></div></blockquote><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and the mods don't.  Apparently I didn't have enough repetitive Slashdot memes in there or something.
<br> <br> <br>
In Soviet Russia, you inaccurately offtopic the mods!
<br> <br>
Natalie Portman and hot grits would have found the humor in that!
<br> <br>
A steaming mug of frosty piss would remove some of that uptightness.
<br> <br>
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those [jokes]<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
<br> <br>
I for one welcome our humorless Pharisee moderator overlords!
<br> <br>
Instead of finding a way to mod me off topic, the mods should have found some sharks and put lasers on their heads!
<br> <br>
Sure, but does that moderator run Linux?
<br> <br> <br>
Now THAT'S funny.  Right?  Right??  Maybe if I repeat them multiple times in each story over the next few months they'll be worthy of instant +5 Funny status...
<br> <br>
Maybe you don't like the way I am making it, but I DO have a point.  Now go make this a -1 post.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't normally reply to myself but something could be added to this : The man had a sense of humor .
... and the mods do n't .
Apparently I did n't have enough repetitive Slashdot memes in there or something .
In Soviet Russia , you inaccurately offtopic the mods !
Natalie Portman and hot grits would have found the humor in that !
A steaming mug of frosty piss would remove some of that uptightness .
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those [ jokes ] .. . I for one welcome our humorless Pharisee moderator overlords !
Instead of finding a way to mod me off topic , the mods should have found some sharks and put lasers on their heads !
Sure , but does that moderator run Linux ?
Now THAT 'S funny .
Right ? Right ? ?
Maybe if I repeat them multiple times in each story over the next few months they 'll be worthy of instant + 5 Funny status.. . Maybe you do n't like the way I am making it , but I DO have a point .
Now go make this a -1 post .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't normally reply to myself but something could be added to this:The man had a sense of humor.
... and the mods don't.
Apparently I didn't have enough repetitive Slashdot memes in there or something.
In Soviet Russia, you inaccurately offtopic the mods!
Natalie Portman and hot grits would have found the humor in that!
A steaming mug of frosty piss would remove some of that uptightness.
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those [jokes] ...
 
I for one welcome our humorless Pharisee moderator overlords!
Instead of finding a way to mod me off topic, the mods should have found some sharks and put lasers on their heads!
Sure, but does that moderator run Linux?
Now THAT'S funny.
Right?  Right??
Maybe if I repeat them multiple times in each story over the next few months they'll be worthy of instant +5 Funny status...
 
Maybe you don't like the way I am making it, but I DO have a point.
Now go make this a -1 post.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504395</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504919</id>
	<title>As an Indian Citizen, I welcome this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246211880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a citizen of India, I whole-heartedly welcome this measure. One of the benefits (amongst many) is that native Indian citizens will not be marginalized by hordes of illegal immigrants who have crossed the borders of our country. That might sound callous, and yes, it indeed is, but the harsh reality is that many regions of our country have had their demographics completely changed by vast, un-checked immigration from Bangladesh and Burma. These immigrants zealously bring their religion with them - the one with the conspicuous lack of family planning or birth control and outdated ideas regarding education and treatment of women. (I assume you can guess which one)</p><p>
For a country like India which is already heavily overpopulated with a severe lack of natural resources, such immigration is just breaking the elephant's back. A national identity card system will go a long way to address this severe problem.
</p><p>
I am aware that Americans strongly believe in individual privacy and are only too eager to shudder and sneer at such measures. Privacy is a valid concern, but the need for privacy is stronger in the West and lesser in the East - one f those strange cultural differences - it simply matters less to us here. And in the hierarchy of needs, the rights of basic citizenship and access to government resources matters more than an individual need for privacy.
</p><p>
Will the system be fool-proof? Of course not. It will be hacked - I expect it will be hacked both socially (corruption) and through technology and will definitely be misused a number of times for fake identities. The risk of misuse, however, is not a sufficient argument against the very real need for introduction of such an identity system in our country.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a citizen of India , I whole-heartedly welcome this measure .
One of the benefits ( amongst many ) is that native Indian citizens will not be marginalized by hordes of illegal immigrants who have crossed the borders of our country .
That might sound callous , and yes , it indeed is , but the harsh reality is that many regions of our country have had their demographics completely changed by vast , un-checked immigration from Bangladesh and Burma .
These immigrants zealously bring their religion with them - the one with the conspicuous lack of family planning or birth control and outdated ideas regarding education and treatment of women .
( I assume you can guess which one ) For a country like India which is already heavily overpopulated with a severe lack of natural resources , such immigration is just breaking the elephant 's back .
A national identity card system will go a long way to address this severe problem .
I am aware that Americans strongly believe in individual privacy and are only too eager to shudder and sneer at such measures .
Privacy is a valid concern , but the need for privacy is stronger in the West and lesser in the East - one f those strange cultural differences - it simply matters less to us here .
And in the hierarchy of needs , the rights of basic citizenship and access to government resources matters more than an individual need for privacy .
Will the system be fool-proof ?
Of course not .
It will be hacked - I expect it will be hacked both socially ( corruption ) and through technology and will definitely be misused a number of times for fake identities .
The risk of misuse , however , is not a sufficient argument against the very real need for introduction of such an identity system in our country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a citizen of India, I whole-heartedly welcome this measure.
One of the benefits (amongst many) is that native Indian citizens will not be marginalized by hordes of illegal immigrants who have crossed the borders of our country.
That might sound callous, and yes, it indeed is, but the harsh reality is that many regions of our country have had their demographics completely changed by vast, un-checked immigration from Bangladesh and Burma.
These immigrants zealously bring their religion with them - the one with the conspicuous lack of family planning or birth control and outdated ideas regarding education and treatment of women.
(I assume you can guess which one)
For a country like India which is already heavily overpopulated with a severe lack of natural resources, such immigration is just breaking the elephant's back.
A national identity card system will go a long way to address this severe problem.
I am aware that Americans strongly believe in individual privacy and are only too eager to shudder and sneer at such measures.
Privacy is a valid concern, but the need for privacy is stronger in the West and lesser in the East - one f those strange cultural differences - it simply matters less to us here.
And in the hierarchy of needs, the rights of basic citizenship and access to government resources matters more than an individual need for privacy.
Will the system be fool-proof?
Of course not.
It will be hacked - I expect it will be hacked both socially (corruption) and through technology and will definitely be misused a number of times for fake identities.
The risk of misuse, however, is not a sufficient argument against the very real need for introduction of such an identity system in our country.
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28508019</id>
	<title>Re:Better than Google</title>
	<author>Repossessed</author>
	<datestamp>1246192440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If we distrust government, we are forgetting that there are millions of ways government can wreck us that don't involve "Big Brother" scenarios. Bad wars. Corrupt economics. Allowing toxic waste to be in our groundwater. We don't see these as visibly as "Big Brother" scenarios, so we don't talk about them.</p></div><p>No, we don't talk about those because they actually are happening and unlike the Big Brother thing there's no recourse for us to stop them.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If we distrust government , we are forgetting that there are millions of ways government can wreck us that do n't involve " Big Brother " scenarios .
Bad wars .
Corrupt economics .
Allowing toxic waste to be in our groundwater .
We do n't see these as visibly as " Big Brother " scenarios , so we do n't talk about them.No , we do n't talk about those because they actually are happening and unlike the Big Brother thing there 's no recourse for us to stop them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If we distrust government, we are forgetting that there are millions of ways government can wreck us that don't involve "Big Brother" scenarios.
Bad wars.
Corrupt economics.
Allowing toxic waste to be in our groundwater.
We don't see these as visibly as "Big Brother" scenarios, so we don't talk about them.No, we don't talk about those because they actually are happening and unlike the Big Brother thing there's no recourse for us to stop them.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504357</id>
	<title>We are going to need this for our US healthcare</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246208520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you think REALID is dead it will live again as healthpass or some other nicely named system, but bet univeral healthcare will be the excuse used.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think REALID is dead it will live again as healthpass or some other nicely named system , but bet univeral healthcare will be the excuse used .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think REALID is dead it will live again as healthpass or some other nicely named system, but bet univeral healthcare will be the excuse used.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28506183</id>
	<title>We have had---</title>
	<author>ryzvonusef</author>
	<datestamp>1246220220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An ID card scheme here in Pakistan since, I guess, the 70's. My father has had three different NIC over the time, the current being a "Computerised" NIC that is linked to the "NAtional Database and Registration Authority"(NADRA). And that in turn links to everything.</p><p>For example, if I need to buy a mobile SIM, get into an institute or handle any sort of official paperwork, I need my CNIC.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An ID card scheme here in Pakistan since , I guess , the 70 's .
My father has had three different NIC over the time , the current being a " Computerised " NIC that is linked to the " NAtional Database and Registration Authority " ( NADRA ) .
And that in turn links to everything.For example , if I need to buy a mobile SIM , get into an institute or handle any sort of official paperwork , I need my CNIC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An ID card scheme here in Pakistan since, I guess, the 70's.
My father has had three different NIC over the time, the current being a "Computerised" NIC that is linked to the "NAtional Database and Registration Authority"(NADRA).
And that in turn links to everything.For example, if I need to buy a mobile SIM, get into an institute or handle any sort of official paperwork, I need my CNIC.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505865</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246217880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>The other thing is, RentACoder already beat them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The other thing is , RentACoder already beat them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The other thing is, RentACoder already beat them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504343</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28506847</id>
	<title>Nothing to worry about</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246182600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If India designs the ID databases anything like they treat Western customers vis-a-vis technical support jobs we exported to them, then the population of India have nothing to worry about at all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If India designs the ID databases anything like they treat Western customers vis-a-vis technical support jobs we exported to them , then the population of India have nothing to worry about at all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If India designs the ID databases anything like they treat Western customers vis-a-vis technical support jobs we exported to them, then the population of India have nothing to worry about at all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505719</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246216980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>India will always be referred to as being a Third world nation. This is because <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third\_World" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Third world</a> [wikipedia.org] does not mean what you think it means.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>India will always be referred to as being a Third world nation .
This is because Third world [ wikipedia.org ] does not mean what you think it means .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>India will always be referred to as being a Third world nation.
This is because Third world [wikipedia.org] does not mean what you think it means.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504615</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504423</id>
	<title>Progress.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246208940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey dammit, we had the idea of reducing everyone to a number long before you did, and we're the only ones that should have to suffer with that kind of stupidity. You can steal our jobs, but don't steal our retarded government ideas -- as a patriot, I simply must draw the line there!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey dammit , we had the idea of reducing everyone to a number long before you did , and we 're the only ones that should have to suffer with that kind of stupidity .
You can steal our jobs , but do n't steal our retarded government ideas -- as a patriot , I simply must draw the line there !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey dammit, we had the idea of reducing everyone to a number long before you did, and we're the only ones that should have to suffer with that kind of stupidity.
You can steal our jobs, but don't steal our retarded government ideas -- as a patriot, I simply must draw the line there!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504547</id>
	<title>brings to mind</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246209720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.<br>Robert A. Heinlein</p><p>(Sadly the space travel thing not applicable.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When a place gets crowded enough to require ID 's , social collapse is not far away .
It is time to go elsewhere .
The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.Robert A. Heinlein ( Sadly the space travel thing not applicable .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away.
It is time to go elsewhere.
The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere.Robert A. Heinlein(Sadly the space travel thing not applicable.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28509933</id>
	<title>Re:India, sitting in B'lore and sceptical</title>
	<author>zen-theorist</author>
	<datestamp>1246211280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My mum told me Nandan Nilekani of Infosys/Jon Stewart fame is the head of the so-called Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI). So maybe we can hope for some infusion of private organization/efficiency into this project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My mum told me Nandan Nilekani of Infosys/Jon Stewart fame is the head of the so-called Unique Identification Authority of India ( UIDAI ) .
So maybe we can hope for some infusion of private organization/efficiency into this project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My mum told me Nandan Nilekani of Infosys/Jon Stewart fame is the head of the so-called Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI).
So maybe we can hope for some infusion of private organization/efficiency into this project.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504739</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505359</id>
	<title>Re:Better than Google</title>
	<author>seekret</author>
	<datestamp>1246214760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I used to be extremely opposed to a national ID for pretty much exactly what you just said: I distrust the government, I distrust the corporations who control the government. But there are benefits to having a national ID in place, so long as it is, and always remains, voluntary. The day I fear is the day that it is mandated all citizens must carry a national ID under penalty of law. But I think as long as we act resonsibly as citizens and pay attention to what laws and regulations are passed we will be able to prevent this ourselves. Afterall the government can't put into action an elaborate conspiracy against the people if we do our jobs and monitor them, that is kind of the point of a democracy.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to be extremely opposed to a national ID for pretty much exactly what you just said : I distrust the government , I distrust the corporations who control the government .
But there are benefits to having a national ID in place , so long as it is , and always remains , voluntary .
The day I fear is the day that it is mandated all citizens must carry a national ID under penalty of law .
But I think as long as we act resonsibly as citizens and pay attention to what laws and regulations are passed we will be able to prevent this ourselves .
Afterall the government ca n't put into action an elaborate conspiracy against the people if we do our jobs and monitor them , that is kind of the point of a democracy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to be extremely opposed to a national ID for pretty much exactly what you just said: I distrust the government, I distrust the corporations who control the government.
But there are benefits to having a national ID in place, so long as it is, and always remains, voluntary.
The day I fear is the day that it is mandated all citizens must carry a national ID under penalty of law.
But I think as long as we act resonsibly as citizens and pay attention to what laws and regulations are passed we will be able to prevent this ourselves.
Afterall the government can't put into action an elaborate conspiracy against the people if we do our jobs and monitor them, that is kind of the point of a democracy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504799</id>
	<title>Who's gonna code it?</title>
	<author>madfilipino</author>
	<datestamp>1246211160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>We know that the project will be given to the lowest bidder, so that takes Indian coders out of the picture.  So who's gonna code it? Africans?</htmltext>
<tokenext>We know that the project will be given to the lowest bidder , so that takes Indian coders out of the picture .
So who 's gon na code it ?
Africans ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We know that the project will be given to the lowest bidder, so that takes Indian coders out of the picture.
So who's gonna code it?
Africans?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28515055</id>
	<title>I welcome this even im not indian</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246295160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Theres alot of haters of this card perhaps because of where they are.<br>With this new system in place, the Indian government can tax the people. Even alittle taxes would start shifting the resources to where it is more needed.<br>A poor government cant really serve the people especially if they can have a sense of where the hell their citizens are.</p><p>Those who are oppose this dont really know whats the situation is like in India. Poverty is the way of life in many areas of India.</p><p>India lacks infrastructure not because the lack of knowledge because they can always hire someone to build the infrastructure but the lack of people willing to pay for it. Too many people freeload off the system of whats left. People fighting poverty isnt going to get that country off the ground, but with a little greed in the right direction, then everyone gets healthier and wealthier there.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Theres alot of haters of this card perhaps because of where they are.With this new system in place , the Indian government can tax the people .
Even alittle taxes would start shifting the resources to where it is more needed.A poor government cant really serve the people especially if they can have a sense of where the hell their citizens are.Those who are oppose this dont really know whats the situation is like in India .
Poverty is the way of life in many areas of India.India lacks infrastructure not because the lack of knowledge because they can always hire someone to build the infrastructure but the lack of people willing to pay for it .
Too many people freeload off the system of whats left .
People fighting poverty isnt going to get that country off the ground , but with a little greed in the right direction , then everyone gets healthier and wealthier there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Theres alot of haters of this card perhaps because of where they are.With this new system in place, the Indian government can tax the people.
Even alittle taxes would start shifting the resources to where it is more needed.A poor government cant really serve the people especially if they can have a sense of where the hell their citizens are.Those who are oppose this dont really know whats the situation is like in India.
Poverty is the way of life in many areas of India.India lacks infrastructure not because the lack of knowledge because they can always hire someone to build the infrastructure but the lack of people willing to pay for it.
Too many people freeload off the system of whats left.
People fighting poverty isnt going to get that country off the ground, but with a little greed in the right direction, then everyone gets healthier and wealthier there.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504351</id>
	<title>Coons</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246208520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't know which one is more of a miracle - that a black man was elected president of the U.S.A., or that he can speak proper English!
<br> <br>
Seriously.  Every other ethnicity/race can come to the USA not speaking a word of English, and their children, their very next generation, can speak it perfectly.  Two groups can't handle this - niggers, and socalled latinos (spics).  Niggers especially have no excuse, they have been here for generations and they don't speak any second languages.  Oddly enough these are also the same two groups more likely to be involved in street crime since neither of them has any aspirations higher than wanting to be a fucking thug with a shitty attitude.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know which one is more of a miracle - that a black man was elected president of the U.S.A. , or that he can speak proper English !
Seriously. Every other ethnicity/race can come to the USA not speaking a word of English , and their children , their very next generation , can speak it perfectly .
Two groups ca n't handle this - niggers , and socalled latinos ( spics ) .
Niggers especially have no excuse , they have been here for generations and they do n't speak any second languages .
Oddly enough these are also the same two groups more likely to be involved in street crime since neither of them has any aspirations higher than wanting to be a fucking thug with a shitty attitude .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know which one is more of a miracle - that a black man was elected president of the U.S.A., or that he can speak proper English!
Seriously.  Every other ethnicity/race can come to the USA not speaking a word of English, and their children, their very next generation, can speak it perfectly.
Two groups can't handle this - niggers, and socalled latinos (spics).
Niggers especially have no excuse, they have been here for generations and they don't speak any second languages.
Oddly enough these are also the same two groups more likely to be involved in street crime since neither of them has any aspirations higher than wanting to be a fucking thug with a shitty attitude.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505451</id>
	<title>I just want to say...</title>
	<author>martas</author>
	<datestamp>1246215360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Good luck with that. the cost of maintaining such a huge database will probably be higher than their freaking budget, at least after you take out all the bribes and shit.<br> <br>

In soviet india, money steals you!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Good luck with that .
the cost of maintaining such a huge database will probably be higher than their freaking budget , at least after you take out all the bribes and shit .
In soviet india , money steals you !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Good luck with that.
the cost of maintaining such a huge database will probably be higher than their freaking budget, at least after you take out all the bribes and shit.
In soviet india, money steals you!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28509811</id>
	<title>If everyone is covered, why do they need ID cards?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246210080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why does one need an ID card to get services which are provided by the state? A health checkup or dental work should be provided regardless of ID card. Health coverage should be like a water fountain or public toilet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why does one need an ID card to get services which are provided by the state ?
A health checkup or dental work should be provided regardless of ID card .
Health coverage should be like a water fountain or public toilet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why does one need an ID card to get services which are provided by the state?
A health checkup or dental work should be provided regardless of ID card.
Health coverage should be like a water fountain or public toilet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28506169</id>
	<title>tech suggestion</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246220100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would like to suggest they NOT use MS Access for this project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would like to suggest they NOT use MS Access for this project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would like to suggest they NOT use MS Access for this project.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28506051</id>
	<title>Re:India, sitting in B'lore and sceptical</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246219320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I am also setting in B'lore and equally skeptical. The reason being in India its possible to get all these cards by bribing the politicians/officials concerned. Will national card keep out illegal immigrants ? It will become goodie offered to them by politicians to create captive vote-banks. This whole exercise is a waste of time and money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I am also setting in B'lore and equally skeptical .
The reason being in India its possible to get all these cards by bribing the politicians/officials concerned .
Will national card keep out illegal immigrants ?
It will become goodie offered to them by politicians to create captive vote-banks .
This whole exercise is a waste of time and money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am also setting in B'lore and equally skeptical.
The reason being in India its possible to get all these cards by bribing the politicians/officials concerned.
Will national card keep out illegal immigrants ?
It will become goodie offered to them by politicians to create captive vote-banks.
This whole exercise is a waste of time and money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504739</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504769</id>
	<title>moving to a freer country article</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246211040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1283927&amp;cid=28491411</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>http : //ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl ? sid = 1283927&amp;cid = 28491411</tokentext>
<sentencetext>http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1283927&amp;cid=28491411</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28506293</id>
	<title>Re:As an Indian Citizen, I welcome this</title>
	<author>stereoroid</author>
	<datestamp>1246221120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, if you have millions of people without ID, how do you know whether they are currently legal or illegal? Start with an illegal immigrant with no ID, let him choose his own Indian name, and give him an ID: voila, instant Indian citizen. 8)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , if you have millions of people without ID , how do you know whether they are currently legal or illegal ?
Start with an illegal immigrant with no ID , let him choose his own Indian name , and give him an ID : voila , instant Indian citizen .
8 )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, if you have millions of people without ID, how do you know whether they are currently legal or illegal?
Start with an illegal immigrant with no ID, let him choose his own Indian name, and give him an ID: voila, instant Indian citizen.
8)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504435</id>
	<title>Sort of like...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246209060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sort of like the IRS?  They have how much money you make, where you live, what you own, who you're married to, and who are your kids.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sort of like the IRS ?
They have how much money you make , where you live , what you own , who you 're married to , and who are your kids .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sort of like the IRS?
They have how much money you make, where you live, what you own, who you're married to, and who are your kids.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28514373</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>Tolkien</author>
	<datestamp>1246292100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My first reaction upon reading the summary title: Huzzah, we can finally strike back at those 419ers!</htmltext>
<tokenext>My first reaction upon reading the summary title : Huzzah , we can finally strike back at those 419ers !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My first reaction upon reading the summary title: Huzzah, we can finally strike back at those 419ers!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504343</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28511433</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>nashv</author>
	<datestamp>1246270440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>But popular usage has made the term synonymous with poverty and underdevelopment. Switzerland was non-aligned too, is it referred to as Third World ?</htmltext>
<tokenext>But popular usage has made the term synonymous with poverty and underdevelopment .
Switzerland was non-aligned too , is it referred to as Third World ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>But popular usage has made the term synonymous with poverty and underdevelopment.
Switzerland was non-aligned too, is it referred to as Third World ?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505143</id>
	<title>Re:Better than Google</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246213380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>All you have to do to cure AIDS is put people's names in a database? Who makes this magic database, Oracle?</p><p>Government is not looking out for your best interest. Government is people. People who don't know you, don't give a fuck about you.</p><p>Sorry to burst your illusion of the wise philosopher king.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>All you have to do to cure AIDS is put people 's names in a database ?
Who makes this magic database , Oracle ? Government is not looking out for your best interest .
Government is people .
People who do n't know you , do n't give a fuck about you.Sorry to burst your illusion of the wise philosopher king .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All you have to do to cure AIDS is put people's names in a database?
Who makes this magic database, Oracle?Government is not looking out for your best interest.
Government is people.
People who don't know you, don't give a fuck about you.Sorry to burst your illusion of the wise philosopher king.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505473</id>
	<title>Re:It's not all bad!</title>
	<author>Sulphur</author>
	<datestamp>1246215480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So in 30 years, they would have about enough cards for now.

Perhaps this silver bullet would give a clue to my identity.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So in 30 years , they would have about enough cards for now .
Perhaps this silver bullet would give a clue to my identity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So in 30 years, they would have about enough cards for now.
Perhaps this silver bullet would give a clue to my identity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504997</id>
	<title>This will only lead to more corruption</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246212480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>India is a corrupt democracy.<br>The more rules and laws are present, the more corrupt the government becomes.<br>I bet my ass that billions of dollars will be spent to implement it, with doubtful results.<br>The really criminal and refugees will escape by paying the local officials and politicians.<br>The poor lower end will get their cards after they pay some money.<br>The middle class will be harassed since most move around the contry.<br>The uber-rich will not care.<br>In short another fiasco to add to the many fiascos called government programmes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>India is a corrupt democracy.The more rules and laws are present , the more corrupt the government becomes.I bet my ass that billions of dollars will be spent to implement it , with doubtful results.The really criminal and refugees will escape by paying the local officials and politicians.The poor lower end will get their cards after they pay some money.The middle class will be harassed since most move around the contry.The uber-rich will not care.In short another fiasco to add to the many fiascos called government programmes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>India is a corrupt democracy.The more rules and laws are present, the more corrupt the government becomes.I bet my ass that billions of dollars will be spent to implement it, with doubtful results.The really criminal and refugees will escape by paying the local officials and politicians.The poor lower end will get their cards after they pay some money.The middle class will be harassed since most move around the contry.The uber-rich will not care.In short another fiasco to add to the many fiascos called government programmes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504551</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>tnnn</author>
	<datestamp>1246209780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Entrepreneur, Nandan Nilekani has been chosen to lead the ambitious project which will be the second largest citizens' database in a democracy, with China being the biggest."<br>
<br>
I wonder if they are implying that China is a democracy or just saying that they have the biggest database...</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Entrepreneur , Nandan Nilekani has been chosen to lead the ambitious project which will be the second largest citizens ' database in a democracy , with China being the biggest .
" I wonder if they are implying that China is a democracy or just saying that they have the biggest database.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Entrepreneur, Nandan Nilekani has been chosen to lead the ambitious project which will be the second largest citizens' database in a democracy, with China being the biggest.
"

I wonder if they are implying that China is a democracy or just saying that they have the biggest database...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504343</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504905</id>
	<title>Re:Better than Google</title>
	<author>Jah-Wren Ryel</author>
	<datestamp>1246211880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I think it's not terrible that a government have a working list of its citizens, especially if they put vital medical and other data on it.</p></div><p>Then put it on a fob the citizen can wear around their neck, or clipped to their cell phone or in their pocket in the same place they would  keep their ID card.  No need to centralize.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Having an easy way to contact or locate any citizen is also important.</p></div><p>Then use a phone book and the citizens who don't want to be contacted can get unlisted numbers.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>We're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we've lost sight of the basic truth: it matters who you get into government, and how willing they are to fight back corruption (entropy).</p></div><p>No, it really doesn't.  Sooner or later everyone succumbs to the corruption of power.  I don't want to have to put <b>all</b> of my trust in individuals - people lie, and politicians are especially good at fooling you.  There isn't enough face time or research time in the world for even a significant minority of voters to really become familiar enough with any one politician, never mind all of them, to determine how corrupt they are.  I want a system that severely restricts what the government can do, the less they can do the less people they can screw over.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>We don't see these as visibly as "Big Brother" scenarios, so we don't talk about them.</p></div><p>Just because "big brother" is not the only risk of big government doesn't mean we should ignore it.  For sure we worry about all those issues too, its foolish to claim that things like "bad wars" aren't also of significant concern.  Especially after Bush's recent reign and the near constant criticism of it from day one.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Letting Google keep records on who we are may be more destructive.</p></div><p>Yes, Google is a significant threat too, and requires significant watchdogging.  That doesn't mean take the watchdog off the government and set it on google, it means we worry about both.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Leftists claim government is capitalist and dominated by white men; Rightists claim government is socialist and against white men. It seems every group is projecting its fears outside of itself in order to claim innocence.</p></div><p>Actually, in your example, it seems like both sides are complaining government is too big and has too much influence over their own lives.  I don't think that an argument for further increasing the scope and power of the government would go over so well from either of those simplified viewpoints.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it 's not terrible that a government have a working list of its citizens , especially if they put vital medical and other data on it.Then put it on a fob the citizen can wear around their neck , or clipped to their cell phone or in their pocket in the same place they would keep their ID card .
No need to centralize.Having an easy way to contact or locate any citizen is also important.Then use a phone book and the citizens who do n't want to be contacted can get unlisted numbers.We 're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we 've lost sight of the basic truth : it matters who you get into government , and how willing they are to fight back corruption ( entropy ) .No , it really does n't .
Sooner or later everyone succumbs to the corruption of power .
I do n't want to have to put all of my trust in individuals - people lie , and politicians are especially good at fooling you .
There is n't enough face time or research time in the world for even a significant minority of voters to really become familiar enough with any one politician , never mind all of them , to determine how corrupt they are .
I want a system that severely restricts what the government can do , the less they can do the less people they can screw over.We do n't see these as visibly as " Big Brother " scenarios , so we do n't talk about them.Just because " big brother " is not the only risk of big government does n't mean we should ignore it .
For sure we worry about all those issues too , its foolish to claim that things like " bad wars " are n't also of significant concern .
Especially after Bush 's recent reign and the near constant criticism of it from day one.Letting Google keep records on who we are may be more destructive.Yes , Google is a significant threat too , and requires significant watchdogging .
That does n't mean take the watchdog off the government and set it on google , it means we worry about both.Leftists claim government is capitalist and dominated by white men ; Rightists claim government is socialist and against white men .
It seems every group is projecting its fears outside of itself in order to claim innocence.Actually , in your example , it seems like both sides are complaining government is too big and has too much influence over their own lives .
I do n't think that an argument for further increasing the scope and power of the government would go over so well from either of those simplified viewpoints .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it's not terrible that a government have a working list of its citizens, especially if they put vital medical and other data on it.Then put it on a fob the citizen can wear around their neck, or clipped to their cell phone or in their pocket in the same place they would  keep their ID card.
No need to centralize.Having an easy way to contact or locate any citizen is also important.Then use a phone book and the citizens who don't want to be contacted can get unlisted numbers.We're so accustomed in the West to distrust of government that we've lost sight of the basic truth: it matters who you get into government, and how willing they are to fight back corruption (entropy).No, it really doesn't.
Sooner or later everyone succumbs to the corruption of power.
I don't want to have to put all of my trust in individuals - people lie, and politicians are especially good at fooling you.
There isn't enough face time or research time in the world for even a significant minority of voters to really become familiar enough with any one politician, never mind all of them, to determine how corrupt they are.
I want a system that severely restricts what the government can do, the less they can do the less people they can screw over.We don't see these as visibly as "Big Brother" scenarios, so we don't talk about them.Just because "big brother" is not the only risk of big government doesn't mean we should ignore it.
For sure we worry about all those issues too, its foolish to claim that things like "bad wars" aren't also of significant concern.
Especially after Bush's recent reign and the near constant criticism of it from day one.Letting Google keep records on who we are may be more destructive.Yes, Google is a significant threat too, and requires significant watchdogging.
That doesn't mean take the watchdog off the government and set it on google, it means we worry about both.Leftists claim government is capitalist and dominated by white men; Rightists claim government is socialist and against white men.
It seems every group is projecting its fears outside of itself in order to claim innocence.Actually, in your example, it seems like both sides are complaining government is too big and has too much influence over their own lives.
I don't think that an argument for further increasing the scope and power of the government would go over so well from either of those simplified viewpoints.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505627</id>
	<title>Old media needs to die, and boomers don't get it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246216380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Their faith and acceptance of the old media is astounding. I could care less what AP/Routers/NY Times has to say: they've consistently biased the news to fit the establishment, promoted trivia over news (fark,) and stagnated with the aging baby boomers. </p><p>Opinion aside, they don't even acknowledge that newspapers could *not* post their material online. If they don't want it linked to, they don't have to make it available.</p><blockquote><div><p>Imagine if the New York Times migrated entirely to the World Wide Web. Could it support, out of advertising and subscriber revenues, as large a news-gathering apparatus as it does today?</p></div></blockquote><p>All they care about is the existing news gathering revenue levels remaining the same, so the "quality" can remain the same.</p><p>Old Media is dead. It just doesn't know it yet. New generations, with new technology, will create new ways to learn about the world, and it'll center around a "web of trust" (or social graph) not the old media establishment tell you the "truth."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Their faith and acceptance of the old media is astounding .
I could care less what AP/Routers/NY Times has to say : they 've consistently biased the news to fit the establishment , promoted trivia over news ( fark , ) and stagnated with the aging baby boomers .
Opinion aside , they do n't even acknowledge that newspapers could * not * post their material online .
If they do n't want it linked to , they do n't have to make it available.Imagine if the New York Times migrated entirely to the World Wide Web .
Could it support , out of advertising and subscriber revenues , as large a news-gathering apparatus as it does today ? All they care about is the existing news gathering revenue levels remaining the same , so the " quality " can remain the same.Old Media is dead .
It just does n't know it yet .
New generations , with new technology , will create new ways to learn about the world , and it 'll center around a " web of trust " ( or social graph ) not the old media establishment tell you the " truth .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Their faith and acceptance of the old media is astounding.
I could care less what AP/Routers/NY Times has to say: they've consistently biased the news to fit the establishment, promoted trivia over news (fark,) and stagnated with the aging baby boomers.
Opinion aside, they don't even acknowledge that newspapers could *not* post their material online.
If they don't want it linked to, they don't have to make it available.Imagine if the New York Times migrated entirely to the World Wide Web.
Could it support, out of advertising and subscriber revenues, as large a news-gathering apparatus as it does today?All they care about is the existing news gathering revenue levels remaining the same, so the "quality" can remain the same.Old Media is dead.
It just doesn't know it yet.
New generations, with new technology, will create new ways to learn about the world, and it'll center around a "web of trust" (or social graph) not the old media establishment tell you the "truth.
"
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505827</id>
	<title>Great Idea. Won't Work.</title>
	<author>Prateekmi2</author>
	<datestamp>1246217580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I read the news and was quite impressed by it. It seems like a great idea, having basic information about the citizens available, and being able to provide better service using it. And if implemented it will be a great help for the people too, being able to have a single ID to serve as their Ration cards, Voter ID, PAN cards, Driving license, Electricity bill payments etc.</p><p>The most immediate problem however is that the infrastructure to utilize this kind of information is absent, and is not going to be widely available for several years to come. The vital social services that the govt. intends to provide to the poorest are not in a very good shape, and identity information is the least of the problems. The IT infrastructure required to facilitate interactions via IDs is limited to big cities.</p><p>I don't have much concern about the breach of privacy. I expose several orders of magnitude greater information about myseff on internet and social networks than what the govt. plans to collect. And this information has been collected through National Population Census since several decades. It will just be more accessible now.</p><p>Also, how are they going to generate and distribute these ID cards? In a country of over a billion people, where a significant portion of the population doesn't even have voter ID cards, its going to add several layer of more bureaucracy, corruption and red tape. As someone already pointed out, they don't have any means to enforce it on those who don't want it, and the middle class will be the one to suffer the most.</p><p>At the risk of sounding defeatist, I still maintain, its a nice idea, but both impractical and premature.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I read the news and was quite impressed by it .
It seems like a great idea , having basic information about the citizens available , and being able to provide better service using it .
And if implemented it will be a great help for the people too , being able to have a single ID to serve as their Ration cards , Voter ID , PAN cards , Driving license , Electricity bill payments etc.The most immediate problem however is that the infrastructure to utilize this kind of information is absent , and is not going to be widely available for several years to come .
The vital social services that the govt .
intends to provide to the poorest are not in a very good shape , and identity information is the least of the problems .
The IT infrastructure required to facilitate interactions via IDs is limited to big cities.I do n't have much concern about the breach of privacy .
I expose several orders of magnitude greater information about myseff on internet and social networks than what the govt .
plans to collect .
And this information has been collected through National Population Census since several decades .
It will just be more accessible now.Also , how are they going to generate and distribute these ID cards ?
In a country of over a billion people , where a significant portion of the population does n't even have voter ID cards , its going to add several layer of more bureaucracy , corruption and red tape .
As someone already pointed out , they do n't have any means to enforce it on those who do n't want it , and the middle class will be the one to suffer the most.At the risk of sounding defeatist , I still maintain , its a nice idea , but both impractical and premature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I read the news and was quite impressed by it.
It seems like a great idea, having basic information about the citizens available, and being able to provide better service using it.
And if implemented it will be a great help for the people too, being able to have a single ID to serve as their Ration cards, Voter ID, PAN cards, Driving license, Electricity bill payments etc.The most immediate problem however is that the infrastructure to utilize this kind of information is absent, and is not going to be widely available for several years to come.
The vital social services that the govt.
intends to provide to the poorest are not in a very good shape, and identity information is the least of the problems.
The IT infrastructure required to facilitate interactions via IDs is limited to big cities.I don't have much concern about the breach of privacy.
I expose several orders of magnitude greater information about myseff on internet and social networks than what the govt.
plans to collect.
And this information has been collected through National Population Census since several decades.
It will just be more accessible now.Also, how are they going to generate and distribute these ID cards?
In a country of over a billion people, where a significant portion of the population doesn't even have voter ID cards, its going to add several layer of more bureaucracy, corruption and red tape.
As someone already pointed out, they don't have any means to enforce it on those who don't want it, and the middle class will be the one to suffer the most.At the risk of sounding defeatist, I still maintain, its a nice idea, but both impractical and premature.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28510117</id>
	<title>Re:India, sitting in B'lore and sceptical</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246213080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In a way it's a good thing, when coupled with the recent RTI (Right To Information) act which has been implemented fairly well. The major benefit I see coming out of this database is that the government can be held accountable for its spending. If, for example, the collectorate of a district spends 10 lac rupees to provide affordable housing or disaster relief, or food-for-work schemes, to 1000 families, the details of these families will be easy to pick out from the planned database and RTI activists (and we will need a growing number of them) can simply contact the concerned individuals to see if the benefits have been realized. Also, reservations, fair price schemes and social upliftment schemes can be much better planned and executed with such a database.</p><p>In all this the premise is that the executive (and not necessarily the political) class has good intentions. If you look back at the last 30-40 years, the amount of money that has been spent on easing poverty, raising literacy levels, improving primary health care, etc., is staggering. To spending from revenues if you add World Bank help, the gross amount is humongous. If this money had been more efficiently spent, India would have been a far far better place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In a way it 's a good thing , when coupled with the recent RTI ( Right To Information ) act which has been implemented fairly well .
The major benefit I see coming out of this database is that the government can be held accountable for its spending .
If , for example , the collectorate of a district spends 10 lac rupees to provide affordable housing or disaster relief , or food-for-work schemes , to 1000 families , the details of these families will be easy to pick out from the planned database and RTI activists ( and we will need a growing number of them ) can simply contact the concerned individuals to see if the benefits have been realized .
Also , reservations , fair price schemes and social upliftment schemes can be much better planned and executed with such a database.In all this the premise is that the executive ( and not necessarily the political ) class has good intentions .
If you look back at the last 30-40 years , the amount of money that has been spent on easing poverty , raising literacy levels , improving primary health care , etc. , is staggering .
To spending from revenues if you add World Bank help , the gross amount is humongous .
If this money had been more efficiently spent , India would have been a far far better place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In a way it's a good thing, when coupled with the recent RTI (Right To Information) act which has been implemented fairly well.
The major benefit I see coming out of this database is that the government can be held accountable for its spending.
If, for example, the collectorate of a district spends 10 lac rupees to provide affordable housing or disaster relief, or food-for-work schemes, to 1000 families, the details of these families will be easy to pick out from the planned database and RTI activists (and we will need a growing number of them) can simply contact the concerned individuals to see if the benefits have been realized.
Also, reservations, fair price schemes and social upliftment schemes can be much better planned and executed with such a database.In all this the premise is that the executive (and not necessarily the political) class has good intentions.
If you look back at the last 30-40 years, the amount of money that has been spent on easing poverty, raising literacy levels, improving primary health care, etc., is staggering.
To spending from revenues if you add World Bank help, the gross amount is humongous.
If this money had been more efficiently spent, India would have been a far far better place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504739</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504443</id>
	<title>It's not all bad!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246209060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>India currently has no real way of identifying a person uniquely - other than a passport. Most formal government identification systems are uncontrolled and easily available in exchange for money. So we dont really have a credit system, no social security number etc. One recent change was PAN cards - a tax identification number.</p><p>So this could will help a lot in uniquely identifying a person - especially in a country where there are 28 languages, and where migration of labor has started increasing substantially.</p><p>This is also being led by Nandan Nilekini of Infosys fame.</p><p>[An estimated 100M id cards will be rolled out in 3 years]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>India currently has no real way of identifying a person uniquely - other than a passport .
Most formal government identification systems are uncontrolled and easily available in exchange for money .
So we dont really have a credit system , no social security number etc .
One recent change was PAN cards - a tax identification number.So this could will help a lot in uniquely identifying a person - especially in a country where there are 28 languages , and where migration of labor has started increasing substantially.This is also being led by Nandan Nilekini of Infosys fame .
[ An estimated 100M id cards will be rolled out in 3 years ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>India currently has no real way of identifying a person uniquely - other than a passport.
Most formal government identification systems are uncontrolled and easily available in exchange for money.
So we dont really have a credit system, no social security number etc.
One recent change was PAN cards - a tax identification number.So this could will help a lot in uniquely identifying a person - especially in a country where there are 28 languages, and where migration of labor has started increasing substantially.This is also being led by Nandan Nilekini of Infosys fame.
[An estimated 100M id cards will be rolled out in 3 years]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505307</id>
	<title>Maintainence??</title>
	<author>thirdworldpeasant</author>
	<datestamp>1246214400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I worry if they will have enough funds to maintain the database while people are dying of starvation.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I worry if they will have enough funds to maintain the database while people are dying of starvation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I worry if they will have enough funds to maintain the database while people are dying of starvation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28512443</id>
	<title>My response to: It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246280280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What Is A National Identity Card?</p><p>A Citizen's Identity card is exactly what it purports.</p><p>Just like a US Driver's license, it has the name of the person&gt;</p><p>* His/Her Date Of Birth.</p><p>* Ethnicity.</p><p>* And Nationality:</p><p>* A Face Picture.</p><p>* A Social Security card (if any).</p><p>Some countries don't have a National Social Security Plan.</p><p>Some do have A National Health Plan that all citizens must subscribe to when employed.</p><p>
&nbsp; And is also subsidized by the state.</p><p>Mimbari.<br>NYC.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What Is A National Identity Card ? A Citizen 's Identity card is exactly what it purports.Just like a US Driver 's license , it has the name of the person &gt; * His/Her Date Of Birth .
* Ethnicity .
* And Nationality : * A Face Picture .
* A Social Security card ( if any ) .Some countries do n't have a National Social Security Plan.Some do have A National Health Plan that all citizens must subscribe to when employed .
  And is also subsidized by the state.Mimbari.NYC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What Is A National Identity Card?A Citizen's Identity card is exactly what it purports.Just like a US Driver's license, it has the name of the person&gt;* His/Her Date Of Birth.
* Ethnicity.
* And Nationality:* A Face Picture.
* A Social Security card (if any).Some countries don't have a National Social Security Plan.Some do have A National Health Plan that all citizens must subscribe to when employed.
  And is also subsidized by the state.Mimbari.NYC.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504343</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28513187</id>
	<title>Re:It's not all bad!</title>
	<author>velen</author>
	<datestamp>1246285680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The PAN card, the ration card and your passport are all unique ids in India.  The problem is that pretty much all of them can be duplicated.  This national ID card is just to throw in biometrics into the mix.  That doesn't do anything to prevent corruption at the database level.  I am talking about bribery, lets leave hacking and related crap alone for now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The PAN card , the ration card and your passport are all unique ids in India .
The problem is that pretty much all of them can be duplicated .
This national ID card is just to throw in biometrics into the mix .
That does n't do anything to prevent corruption at the database level .
I am talking about bribery , lets leave hacking and related crap alone for now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The PAN card, the ration card and your passport are all unique ids in India.
The problem is that pretty much all of them can be duplicated.
This national ID card is just to throw in biometrics into the mix.
That doesn't do anything to prevent corruption at the database level.
I am talking about bribery, lets leave hacking and related crap alone for now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504343</id>
	<title>It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246208460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I read "Your Rights Online: India To Put All Citizen Info In a Central Database" I was horrified,  But then I read further and realized that, while bad, it wasn't nearly as bad as the headline makes it sound.

</p><p>Turns out they're only planning on putting some data <i>about</i> the citizens in the database.  But it looks like people will still be allowed to keep their own grocery lists and address books etc. and manage them however they wish.

</p><p>For now at least.

</p><p>--MarkusQ</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I read " Your Rights Online : India To Put All Citizen Info In a Central Database " I was horrified , But then I read further and realized that , while bad , it was n't nearly as bad as the headline makes it sound .
Turns out they 're only planning on putting some data about the citizens in the database .
But it looks like people will still be allowed to keep their own grocery lists and address books etc .
and manage them however they wish .
For now at least .
--MarkusQ</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I read "Your Rights Online: India To Put All Citizen Info In a Central Database" I was horrified,  But then I read further and realized that, while bad, it wasn't nearly as bad as the headline makes it sound.
Turns out they're only planning on putting some data about the citizens in the database.
But it looks like people will still be allowed to keep their own grocery lists and address books etc.
and manage them however they wish.
For now at least.
--MarkusQ</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504395</id>
	<title>Re:It isn't as bad as it sounds</title>
	<author>causality</author>
	<datestamp>1246208700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>When I read "Your Rights Online: India To Put All Citizen Info In a Central Database" I was horrified,  But then I read further and realized that, while bad, it wasn't nearly as bad as the headline makes it sound.

</p><p>Turns out they're only planning on putting some data <i>about</i> the citizens in the database.  But it looks like people will still be allowed to keep their own grocery lists and address books etc. and manage them however they wish.

</p><p>For now at least.

</p><p>--MarkusQ</p></div><p>I had a boss at work who once explained this to me.  He got a little piece of paper and a pen and wrote it out something like this:
<br> <br>
<b>Ass</b>u<i>me</i>.  You shouldn't assume because it makes an <b>ass</b> out of 'U' and <i>me</i>.
<br> <br>
The man had a sense of humor.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>When I read " Your Rights Online : India To Put All Citizen Info In a Central Database " I was horrified , But then I read further and realized that , while bad , it was n't nearly as bad as the headline makes it sound .
Turns out they 're only planning on putting some data about the citizens in the database .
But it looks like people will still be allowed to keep their own grocery lists and address books etc .
and manage them however they wish .
For now at least .
--MarkusQI had a boss at work who once explained this to me .
He got a little piece of paper and a pen and wrote it out something like this : Assume .
You should n't assume because it makes an ass out of 'U ' and me .
The man had a sense of humor .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I read "Your Rights Online: India To Put All Citizen Info In a Central Database" I was horrified,  But then I read further and realized that, while bad, it wasn't nearly as bad as the headline makes it sound.
Turns out they're only planning on putting some data about the citizens in the database.
But it looks like people will still be allowed to keep their own grocery lists and address books etc.
and manage them however they wish.
For now at least.
--MarkusQI had a boss at work who once explained this to me.
He got a little piece of paper and a pen and wrote it out something like this:
 
Assume.
You shouldn't assume because it makes an ass out of 'U' and me.
The man had a sense of humor.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504343</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505155</id>
	<title>Re:It's not all bad!</title>
	<author>Sudheer\_BV</author>
	<datestamp>1246213440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Go, get a driving license, ration card, voter's ID card in exchange for money if you will. If you can buy any of these identity cards you can definitely buy passport and a PAN card too. It could cost you a bit more, though.
</p><p>
Few years back, the Government of India started a project to implement social security number system just like in the western countries. They started accepting forms for this ambitious project. Initially, they started offering this form for people holding a PAN card. I haven't heard of any progress till now.
</p><p>
India needs a strong leader to see this project completed. Let's see how Nandan Nilekani helps in this regard.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Go , get a driving license , ration card , voter 's ID card in exchange for money if you will .
If you can buy any of these identity cards you can definitely buy passport and a PAN card too .
It could cost you a bit more , though .
Few years back , the Government of India started a project to implement social security number system just like in the western countries .
They started accepting forms for this ambitious project .
Initially , they started offering this form for people holding a PAN card .
I have n't heard of any progress till now .
India needs a strong leader to see this project completed .
Let 's see how Nandan Nilekani helps in this regard .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Go, get a driving license, ration card, voter's ID card in exchange for money if you will.
If you can buy any of these identity cards you can definitely buy passport and a PAN card too.
It could cost you a bit more, though.
Few years back, the Government of India started a project to implement social security number system just like in the western countries.
They started accepting forms for this ambitious project.
Initially, they started offering this form for people holding a PAN card.
I haven't heard of any progress till now.
India needs a strong leader to see this project completed.
Let's see how Nandan Nilekani helps in this regard.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504443</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28506021</id>
	<title>Re:Progress.</title>
	<author>jcwayne</author>
	<datestamp>1246219020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>To be fair, the Germans started numbering citizens around the same time.  Although, they were more selective about who was "issued" a number.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>To be fair , the Germans started numbering citizens around the same time .
Although , they were more selective about who was " issued " a number .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To be fair, the Germans started numbering citizens around the same time.
Although, they were more selective about who was "issued" a number.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504423</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504587</id>
	<title>sometimes it works</title>
	<author>dnwq</author>
	<datestamp>1246209960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Issuing ID cards is an old tactic dating from the colonial period to suppress national security - as in, <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/3528523/India-bombings-A-timeline-of-major-attacks.html" title="telegraph.co.uk">regular serial bomb attacks</a> [telegraph.co.uk]. Both the British and new local governments used it, either to suppress independence movements, or to suppress communist/breakaway movements post-independence. <br> <br>

Regular bombings is not something that happens nowadays in the West, obviously. The United States, which is generally free of persistent domestic terrorism, may not have excuses to implement national ID and databases, but other countries may need it. Don't export your conceptions on first-world freedom to places where first-world safety don't exist.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Issuing ID cards is an old tactic dating from the colonial period to suppress national security - as in , regular serial bomb attacks [ telegraph.co.uk ] .
Both the British and new local governments used it , either to suppress independence movements , or to suppress communist/breakaway movements post-independence .
Regular bombings is not something that happens nowadays in the West , obviously .
The United States , which is generally free of persistent domestic terrorism , may not have excuses to implement national ID and databases , but other countries may need it .
Do n't export your conceptions on first-world freedom to places where first-world safety do n't exist .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Issuing ID cards is an old tactic dating from the colonial period to suppress national security - as in, regular serial bomb attacks [telegraph.co.uk].
Both the British and new local governments used it, either to suppress independence movements, or to suppress communist/breakaway movements post-independence.
Regular bombings is not something that happens nowadays in the West, obviously.
The United States, which is generally free of persistent domestic terrorism, may not have excuses to implement national ID and databases, but other countries may need it.
Don't export your conceptions on first-world freedom to places where first-world safety don't exist.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505461</id>
	<title>Re:As an Indian Citizen, I welcome this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246215360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I am aware that Americans strongly believe in individual privacy and are only too eager to shudder and sneer at such measures. Privacy is a valid concern, but the need for privacy is stronger in the West and lesser in the East - one f those strange cultural differences - it simply matters less to us here. And in the hierarchy of needs, the rights of basic citizenship and access to government resources matters more than an individual need for privacy.

</p></div><p>If you represent the average Indian citizen than you have convinced me that for India this is a good thing. Afterall, if this is something you guys actually want then I think it would be ignorant of anyone else to say you shouldn't have it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am aware that Americans strongly believe in individual privacy and are only too eager to shudder and sneer at such measures .
Privacy is a valid concern , but the need for privacy is stronger in the West and lesser in the East - one f those strange cultural differences - it simply matters less to us here .
And in the hierarchy of needs , the rights of basic citizenship and access to government resources matters more than an individual need for privacy .
If you represent the average Indian citizen than you have convinced me that for India this is a good thing .
Afterall , if this is something you guys actually want then I think it would be ignorant of anyone else to say you should n't have it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am aware that Americans strongly believe in individual privacy and are only too eager to shudder and sneer at such measures.
Privacy is a valid concern, but the need for privacy is stronger in the West and lesser in the East - one f those strange cultural differences - it simply matters less to us here.
And in the hierarchy of needs, the rights of basic citizenship and access to government resources matters more than an individual need for privacy.
If you represent the average Indian citizen than you have convinced me that for India this is a good thing.
Afterall, if this is something you guys actually want then I think it would be ignorant of anyone else to say you shouldn't have it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504919</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504739</id>
	<title>India, sitting in B'lore and sceptical</title>
	<author>Gopal.V</author>
	<datestamp>1246210860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I think I know how this will work out.
</p><p>
I already have a national ID card which lets me vote, I have a PAN number which tracks literally every economic transaction of significance I make. They know everything about my vehicles and my travel arrangements.
</p><p>
Now, they're going to pay someone to build a system which correlates all this into some useless information. It'll take six years to build &amp; cost tons of money for the government, half of which will end up being passed under the table as kickbacks and the rest with the contractors. Eventually, the system will be built and works fairly decently, but has no information about anyone who does not really volunteer it first-hand.
</p><p>
It'll be done, but completely useless. Some people will become rich and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... as the general attitude will be <i>"I want less corruption or more opportunity to participate in it"</i>. A complete waste of tax payer's money, but not quite the invasion of my privacy that most people imagine.
</p><p>
But hell yeah, I'm going to protest. Even their incompetence can't be depended up on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think I know how this will work out .
I already have a national ID card which lets me vote , I have a PAN number which tracks literally every economic transaction of significance I make .
They know everything about my vehicles and my travel arrangements .
Now , they 're going to pay someone to build a system which correlates all this into some useless information .
It 'll take six years to build &amp; cost tons of money for the government , half of which will end up being passed under the table as kickbacks and the rest with the contractors .
Eventually , the system will be built and works fairly decently , but has no information about anyone who does not really volunteer it first-hand .
It 'll be done , but completely useless .
Some people will become rich and ... as the general attitude will be " I want less corruption or more opportunity to participate in it " .
A complete waste of tax payer 's money , but not quite the invasion of my privacy that most people imagine .
But hell yeah , I 'm going to protest .
Even their incompetence ca n't be depended up on : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I think I know how this will work out.
I already have a national ID card which lets me vote, I have a PAN number which tracks literally every economic transaction of significance I make.
They know everything about my vehicles and my travel arrangements.
Now, they're going to pay someone to build a system which correlates all this into some useless information.
It'll take six years to build &amp; cost tons of money for the government, half of which will end up being passed under the table as kickbacks and the rest with the contractors.
Eventually, the system will be built and works fairly decently, but has no information about anyone who does not really volunteer it first-hand.
It'll be done, but completely useless.
Some people will become rich and ... as the general attitude will be "I want less corruption or more opportunity to participate in it".
A complete waste of tax payer's money, but not quite the invasion of my privacy that most people imagine.
But hell yeah, I'm going to protest.
Even their incompetence can't be depended up on :)
</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505207</id>
	<title>Better than Homer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246213740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's INDIA for god sakes.  Can't they just ask 7-11 for an employee list?  Why compile the same data twice?</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's INDIA for god sakes .
Ca n't they just ask 7-11 for an employee list ?
Why compile the same data twice ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's INDIA for god sakes.
Can't they just ask 7-11 for an employee list?
Why compile the same data twice?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28505383</id>
	<title>Re:Better than Google</title>
	<author>hansraj</author>
	<datestamp>1246214880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not all of the west has big qualms about the governments keeping track of people. In Germany, where I have lived for a few years now, everyone has to register their addresses to a central agency, you are obliged to carry a valid id with you at all times, etc. And I don't think there is a big outcry about it among Germans. In fact everyone I have tried to convince that it should not be a requirement and you should be allowed to live off the grid in exchange of foregoing some benefits that such laws create, I either get counter-arguments or just a shoulder-shrugging. The point being that different groups of people have different understanding of words like privacy, freedom, limits of government, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not all of the west has big qualms about the governments keeping track of people .
In Germany , where I have lived for a few years now , everyone has to register their addresses to a central agency , you are obliged to carry a valid id with you at all times , etc .
And I do n't think there is a big outcry about it among Germans .
In fact everyone I have tried to convince that it should not be a requirement and you should be allowed to live off the grid in exchange of foregoing some benefits that such laws create , I either get counter-arguments or just a shoulder-shrugging .
The point being that different groups of people have different understanding of words like privacy , freedom , limits of government , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not all of the west has big qualms about the governments keeping track of people.
In Germany, where I have lived for a few years now, everyone has to register their addresses to a central agency, you are obliged to carry a valid id with you at all times, etc.
And I don't think there is a big outcry about it among Germans.
In fact everyone I have tried to convince that it should not be a requirement and you should be allowed to live off the grid in exchange of foregoing some benefits that such laws create, I either get counter-arguments or just a shoulder-shrugging.
The point being that different groups of people have different understanding of words like privacy, freedom, limits of government, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28521829</id>
	<title>Re:India, sitting in B'lore and sceptical</title>
	<author>Kream</author>
	<datestamp>1246279380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm an Indian, long-time<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. vet and a lawyer by training.</p><p>India's Constitution has a different method of doing things from the American one; it chooses to emphasise or list Constitutional Rights and there is a "holy trinity" of Fundamental Rights which cannot ever be amended.</p><p>The Constitution is a living document, having been amended 94 times in 59 years, and the coders seem to have settled on a stable codebase in the last few years, with only minor version changes.</p><p>This may shock Americans but there is no constitutionally explicit Right to Privacy from the Government. I would propose that there's a far greater reliance on and therefore, necessary trust of the Government, in India, as compared to America. With starvation deaths occurring in India even in this day and age, the proposition seems to be something like "Who cares if you have all my personal details and if you're corrupt? Just give me my one subsistence meal a day and it's all okay."</p><p>Five years ago, the government launched a scheme to give rural Indians employment for a fixed number of days a year. This was decried as wasteful, leaky, wrong-headed etc but in some places, it has had some impact.</p><p>The problem is that the sub-contractors who the government uses for public works such as roads, bridges etc. often manipulate the muster rolls to skim off a portion of the money that would otherwise go to very poor people.</p><p>In this context, identity theft and the in-principle prickliness of "gosh darnit! i don't want teh guvmint to kno my pay-per-view habits!!!" is laughably trivial, when compared to the fact that people -- entire families, in some cases -- are dying of starvation.</p><p>I'd say that if this scheme saves the lives of even a thousand of India's poor, it's worth it, invasions of privacy, identity theft and all.</p><p>Note #1 To contextualise, we have over a billion people and the number of poor Indians (those earning less than the global average of US$1.25 a day) is 150\% of the population of the entire United States.</p><p>Note #2 The Indian government considers a person below the poverty line if s/he earns less than US$0.25 a day. There are about 280 million Indians that are that poor, give or take a few tens of millions.</p><p>So, yeah... identity theft? privacy? meh.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm an Indian , long-time / .
vet and a lawyer by training.India 's Constitution has a different method of doing things from the American one ; it chooses to emphasise or list Constitutional Rights and there is a " holy trinity " of Fundamental Rights which can not ever be amended.The Constitution is a living document , having been amended 94 times in 59 years , and the coders seem to have settled on a stable codebase in the last few years , with only minor version changes.This may shock Americans but there is no constitutionally explicit Right to Privacy from the Government .
I would propose that there 's a far greater reliance on and therefore , necessary trust of the Government , in India , as compared to America .
With starvation deaths occurring in India even in this day and age , the proposition seems to be something like " Who cares if you have all my personal details and if you 're corrupt ?
Just give me my one subsistence meal a day and it 's all okay .
" Five years ago , the government launched a scheme to give rural Indians employment for a fixed number of days a year .
This was decried as wasteful , leaky , wrong-headed etc but in some places , it has had some impact.The problem is that the sub-contractors who the government uses for public works such as roads , bridges etc .
often manipulate the muster rolls to skim off a portion of the money that would otherwise go to very poor people.In this context , identity theft and the in-principle prickliness of " gosh darnit !
i do n't want teh guvmint to kno my pay-per-view habits ! ! !
" is laughably trivial , when compared to the fact that people -- entire families , in some cases -- are dying of starvation.I 'd say that if this scheme saves the lives of even a thousand of India 's poor , it 's worth it , invasions of privacy , identity theft and all.Note # 1 To contextualise , we have over a billion people and the number of poor Indians ( those earning less than the global average of US $ 1.25 a day ) is 150 \ % of the population of the entire United States.Note # 2 The Indian government considers a person below the poverty line if s/he earns less than US $ 0.25 a day .
There are about 280 million Indians that are that poor , give or take a few tens of millions.So , yeah... identity theft ?
privacy ? meh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm an Indian, long-time /.
vet and a lawyer by training.India's Constitution has a different method of doing things from the American one; it chooses to emphasise or list Constitutional Rights and there is a "holy trinity" of Fundamental Rights which cannot ever be amended.The Constitution is a living document, having been amended 94 times in 59 years, and the coders seem to have settled on a stable codebase in the last few years, with only minor version changes.This may shock Americans but there is no constitutionally explicit Right to Privacy from the Government.
I would propose that there's a far greater reliance on and therefore, necessary trust of the Government, in India, as compared to America.
With starvation deaths occurring in India even in this day and age, the proposition seems to be something like "Who cares if you have all my personal details and if you're corrupt?
Just give me my one subsistence meal a day and it's all okay.
"Five years ago, the government launched a scheme to give rural Indians employment for a fixed number of days a year.
This was decried as wasteful, leaky, wrong-headed etc but in some places, it has had some impact.The problem is that the sub-contractors who the government uses for public works such as roads, bridges etc.
often manipulate the muster rolls to skim off a portion of the money that would otherwise go to very poor people.In this context, identity theft and the in-principle prickliness of "gosh darnit!
i don't want teh guvmint to kno my pay-per-view habits!!!
" is laughably trivial, when compared to the fact that people -- entire families, in some cases -- are dying of starvation.I'd say that if this scheme saves the lives of even a thousand of India's poor, it's worth it, invasions of privacy, identity theft and all.Note #1 To contextualise, we have over a billion people and the number of poor Indians (those earning less than the global average of US$1.25 a day) is 150\% of the population of the entire United States.Note #2 The Indian government considers a person below the poverty line if s/he earns less than US$0.25 a day.
There are about 280 million Indians that are that poor, give or take a few tens of millions.So, yeah... identity theft?
privacy? meh.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_28_1538221.28504739</parent>
</comment>
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