<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_27_2238255</id>
	<title>Ksplice Offers Rebootless Updates For Ubuntu Systems</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1246125000000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>sdasher writes <i>"<a href="http://www.ksplice.com/">Ksplice</a> has started offering <a href="http://www.ksplice.com/uptrack">Ksplice Uptrack</a> for Ubuntu Jaunty, a free service that delivers rebootless versions of all the latest Ubuntu kernel security updates. It's currently available for both the 32 and 64-bit generic kernel, and they plan to add support for the virtual and server kernels by the end of the month, <a href="http://www.ksplice.com/uptrack/faq">according to their FAQ</a>. This makes Ubuntu the first OS that doesn't need to be rebooted for security updates.  (We <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/story/08/04/24/1334234/Patch-the-Linux-Kernel-Without-Reboots">covered Ksplice's underlying technology</a> when it was first announced a year ago.)"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>sdasher writes " Ksplice has started offering Ksplice Uptrack for Ubuntu Jaunty , a free service that delivers rebootless versions of all the latest Ubuntu kernel security updates .
It 's currently available for both the 32 and 64-bit generic kernel , and they plan to add support for the virtual and server kernels by the end of the month , according to their FAQ .
This makes Ubuntu the first OS that does n't need to be rebooted for security updates .
( We covered Ksplice 's underlying technology when it was first announced a year ago .
) "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>sdasher writes "Ksplice has started offering Ksplice Uptrack for Ubuntu Jaunty, a free service that delivers rebootless versions of all the latest Ubuntu kernel security updates.
It's currently available for both the 32 and 64-bit generic kernel, and they plan to add support for the virtual and server kernels by the end of the month, according to their FAQ.
This makes Ubuntu the first OS that doesn't need to be rebooted for security updates.
(We covered Ksplice's underlying technology when it was first announced a year ago.
)"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501497</id>
	<title>Difference between Linux and Windows</title>
	<author>nmb3000</author>
	<datestamp>1246130520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is something I've wondered for a while.  Both Linux and Windows have the ability to modify images (executables and libraries) on the fly without rebooting, and most Linux updates do this but Windows usually doesn't.  Now we're looking at not only that, but some pretty low level mucking around in the kernel, all while the machine is running.</p><p>I know partly why <a href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2008.11.windowsconfidential.aspx" title="microsoft.com">Microsoft doesn't normally do this for Windows</a> [microsoft.com], but why is it that Linux doesn't have the same problems described in that article?  If you replace an executable you can restart it, sure, but what happens if you update libraries with various inter-dependencies?</p><p>Yes, rebooting is annoying, especially for important servers, but doesn't it make more sense to be 100\% sure that the changes you're making aren't destabilizing the system (doubly for servers) than that few minutes of down time rebooting costs?  Just wondering.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is something I 've wondered for a while .
Both Linux and Windows have the ability to modify images ( executables and libraries ) on the fly without rebooting , and most Linux updates do this but Windows usually does n't .
Now we 're looking at not only that , but some pretty low level mucking around in the kernel , all while the machine is running.I know partly why Microsoft does n't normally do this for Windows [ microsoft.com ] , but why is it that Linux does n't have the same problems described in that article ?
If you replace an executable you can restart it , sure , but what happens if you update libraries with various inter-dependencies ? Yes , rebooting is annoying , especially for important servers , but does n't it make more sense to be 100 \ % sure that the changes you 're making are n't destabilizing the system ( doubly for servers ) than that few minutes of down time rebooting costs ?
Just wondering .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is something I've wondered for a while.
Both Linux and Windows have the ability to modify images (executables and libraries) on the fly without rebooting, and most Linux updates do this but Windows usually doesn't.
Now we're looking at not only that, but some pretty low level mucking around in the kernel, all while the machine is running.I know partly why Microsoft doesn't normally do this for Windows [microsoft.com], but why is it that Linux doesn't have the same problems described in that article?
If you replace an executable you can restart it, sure, but what happens if you update libraries with various inter-dependencies?Yes, rebooting is annoying, especially for important servers, but doesn't it make more sense to be 100\% sure that the changes you're making aren't destabilizing the system (doubly for servers) than that few minutes of down time rebooting costs?
Just wondering.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501607</id>
	<title>Some windows versions have this</title>
	<author>JeanBaptiste</author>
	<datestamp>1246132020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You could update without a box reboot in windows 3.0, 3.1 and 3.11 =P</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You could update without a box reboot in windows 3.0 , 3.1 and 3.11 = P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could update without a box reboot in windows 3.0, 3.1 and 3.11 =P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28511225</id>
	<title>Ubuntu != OS</title>
	<author>kusmin</author>
	<datestamp>1246267200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>**This makes Ubuntu the first OS **
I thought Linux was the OS and Ubuntu a distro.</htmltext>
<tokenext>* * This makes Ubuntu the first OS * * I thought Linux was the OS and Ubuntu a distro .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>**This makes Ubuntu the first OS **
I thought Linux was the OS and Ubuntu a distro.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501799</id>
	<title>load of wank</title>
	<author>timmarhy</author>
	<datestamp>1246221960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>if the fix affects a service i'm currently running, you still have to restart the service, so all this is doing is perpetuating the usual stupid uptime measurment of performance, which isn't indicative of the systems avaliablity.<p>
get back to me when you have found a way to patch my network service without dropping the current open sessions, then i'll be really impressed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>if the fix affects a service i 'm currently running , you still have to restart the service , so all this is doing is perpetuating the usual stupid uptime measurment of performance , which is n't indicative of the systems avaliablity .
get back to me when you have found a way to patch my network service without dropping the current open sessions , then i 'll be really impressed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>if the fix affects a service i'm currently running, you still have to restart the service, so all this is doing is perpetuating the usual stupid uptime measurment of performance, which isn't indicative of the systems avaliablity.
get back to me when you have found a way to patch my network service without dropping the current open sessions, then i'll be really impressed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501401</id>
	<title>FIRST POAT</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246128660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>GNAA first post, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>GNAA first post , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>GNAA first post, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501551</id>
	<title>Re:GPL "terms of service"?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246131420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In the broadest strokes, the GPL isn't that different from a EULA. The main difference is the scope of the agreement. When you use a typical EULA'd piece of software, you have to agree only to run it under certain conditions and not to redistribute it. When you use a GPL'd piece of software, you have to agree only to redistribute it only under certain conditions. You don't have to agree to anything to run it, but there are still terms and conditions for your use of the software (if "use" encompasses redistribution and modification).</p><p>And yes, yes, the GPL isn't a contract and a click-through token of agreement isn't actually necessary. (Instead, your agreement is implicit in the act of doing something that would be copyright infringement but for the license.) But it seems reasonable enough (if maybe unnecessary) to throw a window in front of the user and say "Hey, here's your chance to read this before you break the license terms".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the broadest strokes , the GPL is n't that different from a EULA .
The main difference is the scope of the agreement .
When you use a typical EULA 'd piece of software , you have to agree only to run it under certain conditions and not to redistribute it .
When you use a GPL 'd piece of software , you have to agree only to redistribute it only under certain conditions .
You do n't have to agree to anything to run it , but there are still terms and conditions for your use of the software ( if " use " encompasses redistribution and modification ) .And yes , yes , the GPL is n't a contract and a click-through token of agreement is n't actually necessary .
( Instead , your agreement is implicit in the act of doing something that would be copyright infringement but for the license .
) But it seems reasonable enough ( if maybe unnecessary ) to throw a window in front of the user and say " Hey , here 's your chance to read this before you break the license terms " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the broadest strokes, the GPL isn't that different from a EULA.
The main difference is the scope of the agreement.
When you use a typical EULA'd piece of software, you have to agree only to run it under certain conditions and not to redistribute it.
When you use a GPL'd piece of software, you have to agree only to redistribute it only under certain conditions.
You don't have to agree to anything to run it, but there are still terms and conditions for your use of the software (if "use" encompasses redistribution and modification).And yes, yes, the GPL isn't a contract and a click-through token of agreement isn't actually necessary.
(Instead, your agreement is implicit in the act of doing something that would be copyright infringement but for the license.
) But it seems reasonable enough (if maybe unnecessary) to throw a window in front of the user and say "Hey, here's your chance to read this before you break the license terms".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501431</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502519</id>
	<title>Some clarifacation to parent</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246191240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't necessarily agree with everything Raymond says, but from your post I gather you missed the point a few times.<br>&gt;Windows actually can replace a DLL that is in use by renaming the original then copying the new file into place. However, the Windows world prefers not to do this. Why?<br>Your response makes no sense. Explaining how essentially the same operation is done on Linux doesn't explain why Windows preferes not to do this, nor does it explain why it is okay on Linux.<br>&gt;Even if you replace a file that is in use, there may still be code in the system that wants to use the old version.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... programs that were still using A.DLL keep using the old version, but new programs will use the new one.<br>Actually, all Microsoft DLLs are compiled in such a way that all their functions can be patched safely, even if the processes using the DLL are not paused. Of course, if the internals of the function influence for example communication between processes or there is some other reason that all processes need to have the same version of the function, you must still let all processes leave the function, but that is doable, at least in principle, on Windows also. Plus, Microsoft owns a technology to patch functions in DLLs that aren't specially crafted which they mainly use internally when debugging programs that don't run correctly on a new version of Windows and stuff like that.<br>&gt;Now a program<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... interoperating with it.<br>Here Raymond pretty much complains about the problem we just solved. Also note that in many cases as long as the binary protocol doesn't change you don't have to worry about these things. Followed by a snipe along the lines of "people complain that we're slow in developing patches, but we have to deal with all these problems (that we decided not to deal with after all)". I like many of Raymond's interesting and insightful articles, but sometimes he can be so boneheaded.<br>&gt;So it's not that Windows has to restart after replacing a file that is in use. It's just that it would rather not deal with the complexity that results if it doesn't. Engineering is a set of trade-offs. Do you go to the effort of supporting older versions of yourself for a situation that isn't even a recommended steady-state configuration?<br>Translation: Windows could, but then we'd have to implement a small piece of software that coordinates the update. And we'd have to tell patch developers to mark if their patch has special needs. It's much easier for us if you reboot your machine, even if that does mean that you'll have to wait for your computer to reboot, reopen all your windows, and restart all long-running background processes, even if that means that if one of them takes longer than a month it will never be finished.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't necessarily agree with everything Raymond says , but from your post I gather you missed the point a few times. &gt; Windows actually can replace a DLL that is in use by renaming the original then copying the new file into place .
However , the Windows world prefers not to do this .
Why ? Your response makes no sense .
Explaining how essentially the same operation is done on Linux does n't explain why Windows preferes not to do this , nor does it explain why it is okay on Linux. &gt; Even if you replace a file that is in use , there may still be code in the system that wants to use the old version .
... programs that were still using A.DLL keep using the old version , but new programs will use the new one.Actually , all Microsoft DLLs are compiled in such a way that all their functions can be patched safely , even if the processes using the DLL are not paused .
Of course , if the internals of the function influence for example communication between processes or there is some other reason that all processes need to have the same version of the function , you must still let all processes leave the function , but that is doable , at least in principle , on Windows also .
Plus , Microsoft owns a technology to patch functions in DLLs that are n't specially crafted which they mainly use internally when debugging programs that do n't run correctly on a new version of Windows and stuff like that. &gt; Now a program ... interoperating with it.Here Raymond pretty much complains about the problem we just solved .
Also note that in many cases as long as the binary protocol does n't change you do n't have to worry about these things .
Followed by a snipe along the lines of " people complain that we 're slow in developing patches , but we have to deal with all these problems ( that we decided not to deal with after all ) " .
I like many of Raymond 's interesting and insightful articles , but sometimes he can be so boneheaded. &gt; So it 's not that Windows has to restart after replacing a file that is in use .
It 's just that it would rather not deal with the complexity that results if it does n't .
Engineering is a set of trade-offs .
Do you go to the effort of supporting older versions of yourself for a situation that is n't even a recommended steady-state configuration ? Translation : Windows could , but then we 'd have to implement a small piece of software that coordinates the update .
And we 'd have to tell patch developers to mark if their patch has special needs .
It 's much easier for us if you reboot your machine , even if that does mean that you 'll have to wait for your computer to reboot , reopen all your windows , and restart all long-running background processes , even if that means that if one of them takes longer than a month it will never be finished .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't necessarily agree with everything Raymond says, but from your post I gather you missed the point a few times.&gt;Windows actually can replace a DLL that is in use by renaming the original then copying the new file into place.
However, the Windows world prefers not to do this.
Why?Your response makes no sense.
Explaining how essentially the same operation is done on Linux doesn't explain why Windows preferes not to do this, nor does it explain why it is okay on Linux.&gt;Even if you replace a file that is in use, there may still be code in the system that wants to use the old version.
... programs that were still using A.DLL keep using the old version, but new programs will use the new one.Actually, all Microsoft DLLs are compiled in such a way that all their functions can be patched safely, even if the processes using the DLL are not paused.
Of course, if the internals of the function influence for example communication between processes or there is some other reason that all processes need to have the same version of the function, you must still let all processes leave the function, but that is doable, at least in principle, on Windows also.
Plus, Microsoft owns a technology to patch functions in DLLs that aren't specially crafted which they mainly use internally when debugging programs that don't run correctly on a new version of Windows and stuff like that.&gt;Now a program ... interoperating with it.Here Raymond pretty much complains about the problem we just solved.
Also note that in many cases as long as the binary protocol doesn't change you don't have to worry about these things.
Followed by a snipe along the lines of "people complain that we're slow in developing patches, but we have to deal with all these problems (that we decided not to deal with after all)".
I like many of Raymond's interesting and insightful articles, but sometimes he can be so boneheaded.&gt;So it's not that Windows has to restart after replacing a file that is in use.
It's just that it would rather not deal with the complexity that results if it doesn't.
Engineering is a set of trade-offs.
Do you go to the effort of supporting older versions of yourself for a situation that isn't even a recommended steady-state configuration?Translation: Windows could, but then we'd have to implement a small piece of software that coordinates the update.
And we'd have to tell patch developers to mark if their patch has special needs.
It's much easier for us if you reboot your machine, even if that does mean that you'll have to wait for your computer to reboot, reopen all your windows, and restart all long-running background processes, even if that means that if one of them takes longer than a month it will never be finished.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28507299</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between Linux and Windows</title>
	<author>Ilgaz</author>
	<datestamp>1246186560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It could be basically because they think, assume it is more reliable that way.</p><p>Did you use/maintain OS X, especially Leopard (10.5)? If I told you there is absolutely NO reason to clear kernel caches manually or manually update prebinding (on a healthy system) and yet Apple, yes the developer of OS which brought technologies like kextd and kextcache does it in some updates? Especially iTunes updates does it and if you have watched that gigantic perl/python etc. powered "update" from Tiger to Leopard, they sure have knowledge how to do it.</p><p>It is really interesting since goodly (or somehow differently) written software simply issues kextunload command to unload its kernel extension, puts new one back in and expects OS X to care about it (with a basic touch to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/System/Library/Extensions)</p><p>I can`t say OS X is such a OS that can handle everything without reboot but it feels like some people just reboots "because they can" or "lets stay away from support calls, let guy use his bootcache.plist". It is a feeling only. One thing I am sure is, there is absolutely no reason to "attack" kernel caches with rm command, I have put OS X into all kinds of mad situations and it never failed to do its job on that purpose. On one case, it failed to generate and thanks to launchd, it tried again (out of 3 total tries) and succeeded.</p><p>It is not big deal BTW, removing a cache file doesn`t hurt anything.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It could be basically because they think , assume it is more reliable that way.Did you use/maintain OS X , especially Leopard ( 10.5 ) ?
If I told you there is absolutely NO reason to clear kernel caches manually or manually update prebinding ( on a healthy system ) and yet Apple , yes the developer of OS which brought technologies like kextd and kextcache does it in some updates ?
Especially iTunes updates does it and if you have watched that gigantic perl/python etc .
powered " update " from Tiger to Leopard , they sure have knowledge how to do it.It is really interesting since goodly ( or somehow differently ) written software simply issues kextunload command to unload its kernel extension , puts new one back in and expects OS X to care about it ( with a basic touch to /System/Library/Extensions ) I can ` t say OS X is such a OS that can handle everything without reboot but it feels like some people just reboots " because they can " or " lets stay away from support calls , let guy use his bootcache.plist " .
It is a feeling only .
One thing I am sure is , there is absolutely no reason to " attack " kernel caches with rm command , I have put OS X into all kinds of mad situations and it never failed to do its job on that purpose .
On one case , it failed to generate and thanks to launchd , it tried again ( out of 3 total tries ) and succeeded.It is not big deal BTW , removing a cache file doesn ` t hurt anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It could be basically because they think, assume it is more reliable that way.Did you use/maintain OS X, especially Leopard (10.5)?
If I told you there is absolutely NO reason to clear kernel caches manually or manually update prebinding (on a healthy system) and yet Apple, yes the developer of OS which brought technologies like kextd and kextcache does it in some updates?
Especially iTunes updates does it and if you have watched that gigantic perl/python etc.
powered "update" from Tiger to Leopard, they sure have knowledge how to do it.It is really interesting since goodly (or somehow differently) written software simply issues kextunload command to unload its kernel extension, puts new one back in and expects OS X to care about it (with a basic touch to /System/Library/Extensions)I can`t say OS X is such a OS that can handle everything without reboot but it feels like some people just reboots "because they can" or "lets stay away from support calls, let guy use his bootcache.plist".
It is a feeling only.
One thing I am sure is, there is absolutely no reason to "attack" kernel caches with rm command, I have put OS X into all kinds of mad situations and it never failed to do its job on that purpose.
On one case, it failed to generate and thanks to launchd, it tried again (out of 3 total tries) and succeeded.It is not big deal BTW, removing a cache file doesn`t hurt anything.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501477</id>
	<title>Left are the Zombies..</title>
	<author>htiawe</author>
	<datestamp>1246130220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Now we need a ksplice for zombies instead of having to reboot to clear some of the nasty zombie processes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Now we need a ksplice for zombies instead of having to reboot to clear some of the nasty zombie processes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Now we need a ksplice for zombies instead of having to reboot to clear some of the nasty zombie processes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501719</id>
	<title>Re:Less that 20 second reboot.</title>
	<author>DMUTPeregrine</author>
	<datestamp>1246219860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Pointless, eh?
It lets me install security patches when I want, without rebooting.
Yet I do reboot for reasons other than patching. I run Kubuntu, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Slackware, and Windows. I like to test programs I write before releasing them. This lets me avoid rebooting when I don't want to, and the faster reboots with Jaunty make those times when I do want to reboot easier.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Pointless , eh ?
It lets me install security patches when I want , without rebooting .
Yet I do reboot for reasons other than patching .
I run Kubuntu , FreeBSD , OpenBSD , Slackware , and Windows .
I like to test programs I write before releasing them .
This lets me avoid rebooting when I do n't want to , and the faster reboots with Jaunty make those times when I do want to reboot easier .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pointless, eh?
It lets me install security patches when I want, without rebooting.
Yet I do reboot for reasons other than patching.
I run Kubuntu, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Slackware, and Windows.
I like to test programs I write before releasing them.
This lets me avoid rebooting when I don't want to, and the faster reboots with Jaunty make those times when I do want to reboot easier.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501657</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501645</id>
	<title>wait....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246132380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been bragging about this for months using kexec...</p><p>http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-kexec.html</p><p>not exactly the same but does this mean that I'm not cool anymore?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been bragging about this for months using kexec...http : //www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-kexec.htmlnot exactly the same but does this mean that I 'm not cool anymore ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been bragging about this for months using kexec...http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-kexec.htmlnot exactly the same but does this mean that I'm not cool anymore?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503639</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between Linux and Windows</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1246202820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Yes, rebooting is annoying, especially for important servers, but doesn't it make more sense to be 100\% sure that the changes you're making aren't destabilizing the system (doubly for servers) than that few minutes of down time rebooting costs?</p></div><p>Some systems you don't want down, <em>ever</em>.  Emergency phone service, nuclear power plant control systems, air traffic control systems.  Generally, if you don't lose revenue but lives, don't shut it down.</p><p>Also, for some very important operations, one must imagine the operators have a test/staging server where they can test the changes before deploying on production systems.</p><p>But the most important point: we're being rationalistic instead of empirical!  It's possible to collect the numbers; that is, measure the downtime for each candidate approach, predict future downtime (and even better: loss of revenue), and choose the most profitable approach.</p><p>If it's important (enough) to know, do the science.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , rebooting is annoying , especially for important servers , but does n't it make more sense to be 100 \ % sure that the changes you 're making are n't destabilizing the system ( doubly for servers ) than that few minutes of down time rebooting costs ? Some systems you do n't want down , ever .
Emergency phone service , nuclear power plant control systems , air traffic control systems .
Generally , if you do n't lose revenue but lives , do n't shut it down.Also , for some very important operations , one must imagine the operators have a test/staging server where they can test the changes before deploying on production systems.But the most important point : we 're being rationalistic instead of empirical !
It 's possible to collect the numbers ; that is , measure the downtime for each candidate approach , predict future downtime ( and even better : loss of revenue ) , and choose the most profitable approach.If it 's important ( enough ) to know , do the science .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, rebooting is annoying, especially for important servers, but doesn't it make more sense to be 100\% sure that the changes you're making aren't destabilizing the system (doubly for servers) than that few minutes of down time rebooting costs?Some systems you don't want down, ever.
Emergency phone service, nuclear power plant control systems, air traffic control systems.
Generally, if you don't lose revenue but lives, don't shut it down.Also, for some very important operations, one must imagine the operators have a test/staging server where they can test the changes before deploying on production systems.But the most important point: we're being rationalistic instead of empirical!
It's possible to collect the numbers; that is, measure the downtime for each candidate approach, predict future downtime (and even better: loss of revenue), and choose the most profitable approach.If it's important (enough) to know, do the science.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501497</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502335</id>
	<title>Re:Great!</title>
	<author>Falcon4</author>
	<datestamp>1246188780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And just that same year, a new wireless driver version is <i>finally</i> released since the last version 15 years ago, and requires a reboot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And just that same year , a new wireless driver version is finally released since the last version 15 years ago , and requires a reboot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And just that same year, a new wireless driver version is finally released since the last version 15 years ago, and requires a reboot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502033</id>
	<title>Re:Less that 20 second reboot.</title>
	<author>jones\_supa</author>
	<datestamp>1246183440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>This is pointless.</p></div></blockquote><p>Not necessarily. You get the best of the both worlds.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is pointless.Not necessarily .
You get the best of the both worlds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is pointless.Not necessarily.
You get the best of the both worlds.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501657</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501615</id>
	<title>Re:Windows has NOT been doing this for 6 years</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246132020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>  I did read up on this (via your links) and discovered:</p><blockquote><div><p>Note Not all security updates support HotPatching, and some security updates that support HotPatching might require that you restart the server after you install the security updates.</p></div></blockquote><p>and</p><blockquote><div><p>HotPatching is compatible with security updates that provide isolated fixes for individual functions. HotPatching is not compatible with security updates that update several interdependent functions.</p></div></blockquote><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; So Windows does not even theoretically support this to the extent of the ksplice offering and in practice I still (and have since it's release and for the forseeable future) have to reboot 2003 and more recent releases when I apply MS patches.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I did read up on this ( via your links ) and discovered : Note Not all security updates support HotPatching , and some security updates that support HotPatching might require that you restart the server after you install the security updates.andHotPatching is compatible with security updates that provide isolated fixes for individual functions .
HotPatching is not compatible with security updates that update several interdependent functions .
    So Windows does not even theoretically support this to the extent of the ksplice offering and in practice I still ( and have since it 's release and for the forseeable future ) have to reboot 2003 and more recent releases when I apply MS patches .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>  I did read up on this (via your links) and discovered:Note Not all security updates support HotPatching, and some security updates that support HotPatching might require that you restart the server after you install the security updates.andHotPatching is compatible with security updates that provide isolated fixes for individual functions.
HotPatching is not compatible with security updates that update several interdependent functions.
    So Windows does not even theoretically support this to the extent of the ksplice offering and in practice I still (and have since it's release and for the forseeable future) have to reboot 2003 and more recent releases when I apply MS patches.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501499</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28504595</id>
	<title>Why Linux can and Windows can't: versioned libs</title>
	<author>Johnny Loves Linux</author>
	<datestamp>1246210020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I read the link. In the Windows case, the issue is, well, stunning. I hadn't realized they still have problems with DLL hell.
In the article you referenced, the problem is described this way: DLL A and DLL B are updated while program foo is running. So long as foo is still running, it's using the old versions. But, any program launched after the updates that uses A or B could be hosed, because the updated DLLs might not be backwards compatible.
</p><p>
In the Unix world, this problem was solved a long time ago. (20+ years?). Run time libraries libA.so and libB.so are actually symbolic links pointing at the latest major,minor,revsision libraries, libA.so.major.minor.revision, libB.so.major.minor.revision. So whenever any program is linked against a runtime library with say major version 3, minor version 2 (i.e. it's  compatible with versions 3,4,and 5 of libA)  then that program will run with any version of the library that supports version 3. So at run time it will always be looking for libA.so.3.*. If a newer version of library comes out that is not backwards compatible with version 3, libA.so will point to it sure, but the already compiled programs will still point at the old version of the library. Read the info page for libtool for more and better information.
</p><p>
Unfortunately for Microsoft I think they royally screwed themselves by their dogmatic insistence that programs from 20+ years must still work, no matter how shitty, bug ridden, take-them-out-back-and-shoot-them-please they might be. Specifically, it looks like their FAT 8.3 filename has screwed them because all of their dlls are of the form "foobaz.dll". Notice that the dlls don't have versioning number? They are so screwed. As Raymond states you can move the old DLLs to a different directory, but the programs that depended on them don't know that unless you do something with their environment. I'm not a Microsoft poweruser, so someone else will have to speak about how to deal with that. I'm surprised they didn't hire some Unix guys to tell them about version numbering dlls, but then again the decision they made about how to deal with DLLs must have happened 20+ years ago when they only had the FAT filesystem, and so it would never have occurred to "them" to leave themselves some wriggle room.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I read the link .
In the Windows case , the issue is , well , stunning .
I had n't realized they still have problems with DLL hell .
In the article you referenced , the problem is described this way : DLL A and DLL B are updated while program foo is running .
So long as foo is still running , it 's using the old versions .
But , any program launched after the updates that uses A or B could be hosed , because the updated DLLs might not be backwards compatible .
In the Unix world , this problem was solved a long time ago .
( 20 + years ? ) .
Run time libraries libA.so and libB.so are actually symbolic links pointing at the latest major,minor,revsision libraries , libA.so.major.minor.revision , libB.so.major.minor.revision .
So whenever any program is linked against a runtime library with say major version 3 , minor version 2 ( i.e .
it 's compatible with versions 3,4,and 5 of libA ) then that program will run with any version of the library that supports version 3 .
So at run time it will always be looking for libA.so.3. * .
If a newer version of library comes out that is not backwards compatible with version 3 , libA.so will point to it sure , but the already compiled programs will still point at the old version of the library .
Read the info page for libtool for more and better information .
Unfortunately for Microsoft I think they royally screwed themselves by their dogmatic insistence that programs from 20 + years must still work , no matter how shitty , bug ridden , take-them-out-back-and-shoot-them-please they might be .
Specifically , it looks like their FAT 8.3 filename has screwed them because all of their dlls are of the form " foobaz.dll " .
Notice that the dlls do n't have versioning number ?
They are so screwed .
As Raymond states you can move the old DLLs to a different directory , but the programs that depended on them do n't know that unless you do something with their environment .
I 'm not a Microsoft poweruser , so someone else will have to speak about how to deal with that .
I 'm surprised they did n't hire some Unix guys to tell them about version numbering dlls , but then again the decision they made about how to deal with DLLs must have happened 20 + years ago when they only had the FAT filesystem , and so it would never have occurred to " them " to leave themselves some wriggle room .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I read the link.
In the Windows case, the issue is, well, stunning.
I hadn't realized they still have problems with DLL hell.
In the article you referenced, the problem is described this way: DLL A and DLL B are updated while program foo is running.
So long as foo is still running, it's using the old versions.
But, any program launched after the updates that uses A or B could be hosed, because the updated DLLs might not be backwards compatible.
In the Unix world, this problem was solved a long time ago.
(20+ years?).
Run time libraries libA.so and libB.so are actually symbolic links pointing at the latest major,minor,revsision libraries, libA.so.major.minor.revision, libB.so.major.minor.revision.
So whenever any program is linked against a runtime library with say major version 3, minor version 2 (i.e.
it's  compatible with versions 3,4,and 5 of libA)  then that program will run with any version of the library that supports version 3.
So at run time it will always be looking for libA.so.3.*.
If a newer version of library comes out that is not backwards compatible with version 3, libA.so will point to it sure, but the already compiled programs will still point at the old version of the library.
Read the info page for libtool for more and better information.
Unfortunately for Microsoft I think they royally screwed themselves by their dogmatic insistence that programs from 20+ years must still work, no matter how shitty, bug ridden, take-them-out-back-and-shoot-them-please they might be.
Specifically, it looks like their FAT 8.3 filename has screwed them because all of their dlls are of the form "foobaz.dll".
Notice that the dlls don't have versioning number?
They are so screwed.
As Raymond states you can move the old DLLs to a different directory, but the programs that depended on them don't know that unless you do something with their environment.
I'm not a Microsoft poweruser, so someone else will have to speak about how to deal with that.
I'm surprised they didn't hire some Unix guys to tell them about version numbering dlls, but then again the decision they made about how to deal with DLLs must have happened 20+ years ago when they only had the FAT filesystem, and so it would never have occurred to "them" to leave themselves some wriggle room.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501497</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502105</id>
	<title>Re:Less that 20 second reboot.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246184640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Idiot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Idiot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Idiot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501657</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501695</id>
	<title>Re:Windows has been doing this for 6 years</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246219500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well - that explains the reboots.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well - that explains the reboots .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well - that explains the reboots.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501499</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501797</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between Linux and Windows</title>
	<author>Geoffreyerffoeg</author>
	<datestamp>1246221840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, let's look at the issues raised in the article.</p><p><i>Windows actually can replace a DLL that is in use by renaming the original then copying the new file into place. However, the Windows world prefers not to do this.</i></p><p>Ksplice updates the running code of your kernel (by waiting until no thread is using the function to be patched, then calling the kernel's stop\_machine\_run function -- the same thing it uses when loading a new module -- while it edits the object code); it doesn't touch your<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/vmlinuz file on disk. If you want the patches next time you reboot, either recompile<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/vmlinuz, or have an initscript (like Uptrack's) apply the patches at boot.</p><p><i>Even if you're updating just a single DLL with no dependencies, there are still potential problems since the DLL has to interoperate with previous versions of itself.</i></p><p>One reason Ksplice wins here is that it updates the kernel, which is a single thing, but more fundamentally it avoids this problem by atomically patching every piece of affected code at once. You could actually port the Ksplice technology to userspace, provided you do some userspace equivalent of stop\_machine is and patch every process at the same time.</p><p><i>Even if you haven't changed the structure itself, you may have changed the meaning of some fields in the structure. If the structure has an enumeration and the new version adds a new value to that enumeration, that's still an incompatibility between the old and new.</i></p><p>Again, Ksplice has the advantage of updating everything atomically. But there is explicit support for having a hook to be called at patch time, that either updates all existing structures, or does something fancy to mark structures that have been updated, so you know that any unmarked structure needs to be updated before being used.</p><p>The <a href="http://www.ksplice.com/doc/ksplice.pdf" title="ksplice.com">Ksplice paper (PDF)</a> [ksplice.com] outlines about how you'd go about writing a data structure transformer to address this (as well as talks about how to solve a host of other problems). See also the <a href="http://www.ksplice.com/cve-evaluation" title="ksplice.com">CVE evaluation</a> [ksplice.com], which links to some examples.</p><p><i>So it's not that Windows has to restart after replacing a file that is in use. It's just that it would rather not deal with the complexity that results if it doesn't. Engineering is a set of trade-offs.</i></p><p>which is why this engineering problem is not something Linus Torvalds personally does, but a separate company, Ksplice Inc., is working on full-time.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , let 's look at the issues raised in the article.Windows actually can replace a DLL that is in use by renaming the original then copying the new file into place .
However , the Windows world prefers not to do this.Ksplice updates the running code of your kernel ( by waiting until no thread is using the function to be patched , then calling the kernel 's stop \ _machine \ _run function -- the same thing it uses when loading a new module -- while it edits the object code ) ; it does n't touch your /vmlinuz file on disk .
If you want the patches next time you reboot , either recompile /vmlinuz , or have an initscript ( like Uptrack 's ) apply the patches at boot.Even if you 're updating just a single DLL with no dependencies , there are still potential problems since the DLL has to interoperate with previous versions of itself.One reason Ksplice wins here is that it updates the kernel , which is a single thing , but more fundamentally it avoids this problem by atomically patching every piece of affected code at once .
You could actually port the Ksplice technology to userspace , provided you do some userspace equivalent of stop \ _machine is and patch every process at the same time.Even if you have n't changed the structure itself , you may have changed the meaning of some fields in the structure .
If the structure has an enumeration and the new version adds a new value to that enumeration , that 's still an incompatibility between the old and new.Again , Ksplice has the advantage of updating everything atomically .
But there is explicit support for having a hook to be called at patch time , that either updates all existing structures , or does something fancy to mark structures that have been updated , so you know that any unmarked structure needs to be updated before being used.The Ksplice paper ( PDF ) [ ksplice.com ] outlines about how you 'd go about writing a data structure transformer to address this ( as well as talks about how to solve a host of other problems ) .
See also the CVE evaluation [ ksplice.com ] , which links to some examples.So it 's not that Windows has to restart after replacing a file that is in use .
It 's just that it would rather not deal with the complexity that results if it does n't .
Engineering is a set of trade-offs.which is why this engineering problem is not something Linus Torvalds personally does , but a separate company , Ksplice Inc. , is working on full-time .
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, let's look at the issues raised in the article.Windows actually can replace a DLL that is in use by renaming the original then copying the new file into place.
However, the Windows world prefers not to do this.Ksplice updates the running code of your kernel (by waiting until no thread is using the function to be patched, then calling the kernel's stop\_machine\_run function -- the same thing it uses when loading a new module -- while it edits the object code); it doesn't touch your /vmlinuz file on disk.
If you want the patches next time you reboot, either recompile /vmlinuz, or have an initscript (like Uptrack's) apply the patches at boot.Even if you're updating just a single DLL with no dependencies, there are still potential problems since the DLL has to interoperate with previous versions of itself.One reason Ksplice wins here is that it updates the kernel, which is a single thing, but more fundamentally it avoids this problem by atomically patching every piece of affected code at once.
You could actually port the Ksplice technology to userspace, provided you do some userspace equivalent of stop\_machine is and patch every process at the same time.Even if you haven't changed the structure itself, you may have changed the meaning of some fields in the structure.
If the structure has an enumeration and the new version adds a new value to that enumeration, that's still an incompatibility between the old and new.Again, Ksplice has the advantage of updating everything atomically.
But there is explicit support for having a hook to be called at patch time, that either updates all existing structures, or does something fancy to mark structures that have been updated, so you know that any unmarked structure needs to be updated before being used.The Ksplice paper (PDF) [ksplice.com] outlines about how you'd go about writing a data structure transformer to address this (as well as talks about how to solve a host of other problems).
See also the CVE evaluation [ksplice.com], which links to some examples.So it's not that Windows has to restart after replacing a file that is in use.
It's just that it would rather not deal with the complexity that results if it doesn't.
Engineering is a set of trade-offs.which is why this engineering problem is not something Linus Torvalds personally does, but a separate company, Ksplice Inc., is working on full-time.
:-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501497</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503107</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft's excuse for not updating</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246198380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>On Linux, you can remove the DLL without destabilizing running applications.</p></div><p>Not if your running applications are using them, you can't.  Everytime I update firefox with apt, firefox needs to be restarted because it starts doing weird crap (not opening new tabs, giving weird error messages).  Same thing happens if I update gnome libraries.</p><p>Don't get me wrong, I'm also unimpressed by "Windows Can but Won't."  I update firefox and it starts behaving erratically, I restart firefox, I update gnome and it behaves badly, I restart everything in X.  It's quick, it's painless and <b>way quicker than rebooting the whole computer.</b>  It's pretty much the solution to the trade-off they're talking about.  Don't give a shit, let the applications crash.  Give a warning that it could happen, or set all the applications and dependencies to restart automatically after an update without rebooting the box.  It works pretty well.  "Can but Won't" also doesn't explain why Windows won't let you copy files that are in use, when copying is (or should be) a read-only operation.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>On Linux , you can remove the DLL without destabilizing running applications.Not if your running applications are using them , you ca n't .
Everytime I update firefox with apt , firefox needs to be restarted because it starts doing weird crap ( not opening new tabs , giving weird error messages ) .
Same thing happens if I update gnome libraries.Do n't get me wrong , I 'm also unimpressed by " Windows Can but Wo n't .
" I update firefox and it starts behaving erratically , I restart firefox , I update gnome and it behaves badly , I restart everything in X. It 's quick , it 's painless and way quicker than rebooting the whole computer .
It 's pretty much the solution to the trade-off they 're talking about .
Do n't give a shit , let the applications crash .
Give a warning that it could happen , or set all the applications and dependencies to restart automatically after an update without rebooting the box .
It works pretty well .
" Can but Wo n't " also does n't explain why Windows wo n't let you copy files that are in use , when copying is ( or should be ) a read-only operation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On Linux, you can remove the DLL without destabilizing running applications.Not if your running applications are using them, you can't.
Everytime I update firefox with apt, firefox needs to be restarted because it starts doing weird crap (not opening new tabs, giving weird error messages).
Same thing happens if I update gnome libraries.Don't get me wrong, I'm also unimpressed by "Windows Can but Won't.
"  I update firefox and it starts behaving erratically, I restart firefox, I update gnome and it behaves badly, I restart everything in X.  It's quick, it's painless and way quicker than rebooting the whole computer.
It's pretty much the solution to the trade-off they're talking about.
Don't give a shit, let the applications crash.
Give a warning that it could happen, or set all the applications and dependencies to restart automatically after an update without rebooting the box.
It works pretty well.
"Can but Won't" also doesn't explain why Windows won't let you copy files that are in use, when copying is (or should be) a read-only operation.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502063</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28505895</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between Linux and Windows</title>
	<author>Bent Spoke</author>
	<datestamp>1246218120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a long time system admin of mission critical HA systems,
the most difficult problems I've encoutered were associated
with making critcal OS config changes without rebooting.

Then 6 months later when the system did reboot, it wouldn't come
back.  Worse, by then no one could remember what had been changed.
So finding the cause of this was usually a bitch.

The lesson: always reboot after any change significant
system change.  And don't make system changes unless you
are willing to reboot.

Sure, Ksplice may be making well controlled changes,
but it can be very difficult to guarantee this won't happen.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a long time system admin of mission critical HA systems , the most difficult problems I 've encoutered were associated with making critcal OS config changes without rebooting .
Then 6 months later when the system did reboot , it would n't come back .
Worse , by then no one could remember what had been changed .
So finding the cause of this was usually a bitch .
The lesson : always reboot after any change significant system change .
And do n't make system changes unless you are willing to reboot .
Sure , Ksplice may be making well controlled changes , but it can be very difficult to guarantee this wo n't happen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a long time system admin of mission critical HA systems,
the most difficult problems I've encoutered were associated
with making critcal OS config changes without rebooting.
Then 6 months later when the system did reboot, it wouldn't come
back.
Worse, by then no one could remember what had been changed.
So finding the cause of this was usually a bitch.
The lesson: always reboot after any change significant
system change.
And don't make system changes unless you
are willing to reboot.
Sure, Ksplice may be making well controlled changes,
but it can be very difficult to guarantee this won't happen.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501497</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502217</id>
	<title>Re:GPL "terms of service"?</title>
	<author>funkatron</author>
	<datestamp>1246186620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If it's GPL cant you just edit the terms out of it?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If it 's GPL cant you just edit the terms out of it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If it's GPL cant you just edit the terms out of it?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501431</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501475</id>
	<title>Fedora doing this since F9..</title>
	<author>gzipped\_tar</author>
	<datestamp>1246130160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <a href="https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/fedora-ksplice" title="fedoraproject.org" rel="nofollow">https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/fedora-ksplice</a> [fedoraproject.org] </p><blockquote><div><p>fedora-ksplice<br>

Script Collection for Using KSplice on Fedora Linux<br>
<br>
fedora-ksplice is a collection of shell scripts to use ksplice
in a Fedora environment.<br>
<br>
The scripts allow to prepare a kernel for use it with ksplice.<br>
<br>
fedora-ksplice-prepare will download the source rpm of the
current installed kernel. After this the kernel sources
will be created in the rpm build directory. Additional the
ksplice subdirectory with the System.map file will be created.<br>
<br>
Fedora-ksplice-create will apply a patch given as an argument
to the kernel sources prepared by fedora-ksplice-prepare.</p></div></blockquote></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>https : //admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/fedora-ksplice [ fedoraproject.org ] fedora-ksplice Script Collection for Using KSplice on Fedora Linux fedora-ksplice is a collection of shell scripts to use ksplice in a Fedora environment .
The scripts allow to prepare a kernel for use it with ksplice .
fedora-ksplice-prepare will download the source rpm of the current installed kernel .
After this the kernel sources will be created in the rpm build directory .
Additional the ksplice subdirectory with the System.map file will be created .
Fedora-ksplice-create will apply a patch given as an argument to the kernel sources prepared by fedora-ksplice-prepare .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/fedora-ksplice [fedoraproject.org] fedora-ksplice

Script Collection for Using KSplice on Fedora Linux

fedora-ksplice is a collection of shell scripts to use ksplice
in a Fedora environment.
The scripts allow to prepare a kernel for use it with ksplice.
fedora-ksplice-prepare will download the source rpm of the
current installed kernel.
After this the kernel sources
will be created in the rpm build directory.
Additional the
ksplice subdirectory with the System.map file will be created.
Fedora-ksplice-create will apply a patch given as an argument
to the kernel sources prepared by fedora-ksplice-prepare.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502567</id>
	<title>Kexec?</title>
	<author>dandart</author>
	<datestamp>1246191960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In ANY distro, kexec can provide rebootless updates!</htmltext>
<tokenext>In ANY distro , kexec can provide rebootless updates !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In ANY distro, kexec can provide rebootless updates!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28505069</id>
	<title>Restart without dropping connections</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246213080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to work on a project that made server software for Linux/UNIX and DOS (this was a while back) and we had to be able to patch and restart the service while maintaining the current sessions. The end-user might see a little delay while things were coming back on-line, but other than that, it was pretty seemless. Granted, we were working with something less complex than a kernel, but I'm sure any server could be set up in a similar way. We were able to patch about once a week without taking the service off-line for about a year... then we had a hardware failure.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to work on a project that made server software for Linux/UNIX and DOS ( this was a while back ) and we had to be able to patch and restart the service while maintaining the current sessions .
The end-user might see a little delay while things were coming back on-line , but other than that , it was pretty seemless .
Granted , we were working with something less complex than a kernel , but I 'm sure any server could be set up in a similar way .
We were able to patch about once a week without taking the service off-line for about a year... then we had a hardware failure .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to work on a project that made server software for Linux/UNIX and DOS (this was a while back) and we had to be able to patch and restart the service while maintaining the current sessions.
The end-user might see a little delay while things were coming back on-line, but other than that, it was pretty seemless.
Granted, we were working with something less complex than a kernel, but I'm sure any server could be set up in a similar way.
We were able to patch about once a week without taking the service off-line for about a year... then we had a hardware failure.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28515359</id>
	<title>cfgadmin -c unconfigure; cfgadmin -c disconnect</title>
	<author>CompMD</author>
	<datestamp>1246296420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pshaw, I can yank CPUs out of my Sun E6500 without losing uptime.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pshaw , I can yank CPUs out of my Sun E6500 without losing uptime .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pshaw, I can yank CPUs out of my Sun E6500 without losing uptime.
:)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503637</id>
	<title>Re:Great!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246202760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, I was expecting the joke to have something to do with hiding the laptop up his ass in the POW camps...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , I was expecting the joke to have something to do with hiding the laptop up his ass in the POW camps.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, I was expecting the joke to have something to do with hiding the laptop up his ass in the POW camps...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502503</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28507381</id>
	<title>Re:Less that 20 second reboot.</title>
	<author>WhatDoIKnow</author>
	<datestamp>1246187040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you're using jaunty it's pretty likely rebooting will be required about once a day anyway, so I agree, it is pointless.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're using jaunty it 's pretty likely rebooting will be required about once a day anyway , so I agree , it is pointless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're using jaunty it's pretty likely rebooting will be required about once a day anyway, so I agree, it is pointless.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501657</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28517061</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft's excuse for not updating</title>
	<author>spitzak</author>
	<datestamp>1246302840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is rather shocking the ignorance of people here. Apparently the above poster is so used to Windows that they cannot imagine it working differently.</p><p>Okay, let's imagine there is a special directory called "the files that are open right now". On Linux what happens when you write a new version of  a shared library (sorry, a "DLL" which of course is a far better descriptive name, right?): imagine that it first moves the old file to this special "these files are open right now" directory. Then it puts the new file into the directory it was supposed to be in. Not sure if I really explained this right or managed to avoid Windows problems (I think Windows has been fixed recently so it is safe to rename/mv a file while it is open?).</p><p>This is called hard links/inodes/whatever. It was only invented in 1970 (or perhaps earlier since Unix was based on Multics and that may have taken the idea from other systems before that). Therefore I can understand why Windows users are not quite up on the technology considering it is only 40 years old..</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is rather shocking the ignorance of people here .
Apparently the above poster is so used to Windows that they can not imagine it working differently.Okay , let 's imagine there is a special directory called " the files that are open right now " .
On Linux what happens when you write a new version of a shared library ( sorry , a " DLL " which of course is a far better descriptive name , right ?
) : imagine that it first moves the old file to this special " these files are open right now " directory .
Then it puts the new file into the directory it was supposed to be in .
Not sure if I really explained this right or managed to avoid Windows problems ( I think Windows has been fixed recently so it is safe to rename/mv a file while it is open ?
) .This is called hard links/inodes/whatever .
It was only invented in 1970 ( or perhaps earlier since Unix was based on Multics and that may have taken the idea from other systems before that ) .
Therefore I can understand why Windows users are not quite up on the technology considering it is only 40 years old. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is rather shocking the ignorance of people here.
Apparently the above poster is so used to Windows that they cannot imagine it working differently.Okay, let's imagine there is a special directory called "the files that are open right now".
On Linux what happens when you write a new version of  a shared library (sorry, a "DLL" which of course is a far better descriptive name, right?
): imagine that it first moves the old file to this special "these files are open right now" directory.
Then it puts the new file into the directory it was supposed to be in.
Not sure if I really explained this right or managed to avoid Windows problems (I think Windows has been fixed recently so it is safe to rename/mv a file while it is open?
).This is called hard links/inodes/whatever.
It was only invented in 1970 (or perhaps earlier since Unix was based on Multics and that may have taken the idea from other systems before that).
Therefore I can understand why Windows users are not quite up on the technology considering it is only 40 years old..</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28506591</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501469</id>
	<title>Great!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246130040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This could actually be really awesome if it's truly production ready.  What's that?  100\% uptime?!  AWRIGHT!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This could actually be really awesome if it 's truly production ready .
What 's that ?
100 \ % uptime ? !
AWRIGHT !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This could actually be really awesome if it's truly production ready.
What's that?
100\% uptime?!
AWRIGHT!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502149</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between Linux and Windows</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246185420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>&gt; Windows actually can replace a DLL that is in use by renaming the original then copying the new file into place. However, the Windows world prefers not to do this. Why?</p><p>Linux solves this with links.  To pick a random example:</p><p>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      17 2009-06-21 19:04<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3 -&gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.7<br>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      17 2009-06-21 19:04<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3 -&gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.7<br>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7534253 2008-03-02 12:04<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3.7</p><p>I'm showing here an output of ls.  Say a program open libqt-mt.so.3.  It gets 3.3.7.  Now I install 3.3.8 while my programs are still running.</p><p>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      17 2009-06-21 19:04<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3 -&gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.8<br>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      17 2009-06-21 19:04<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3 -&gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.8<br>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7541660 2008-05-02 15:03<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3.8<br>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7534253 2008-03-02 12:04<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3.7</p><p>So when I install a package, all the new libraries get installed (and their dependencies) and after they are all installed, the symlinks get updated.  If a program wants specifically  3.3.7 and is still using it, they can still have that.  If they already have that library open, then it stays open.  If a new program requests libqt-mt.so.3  then they get the new one.</p><p>The interesting thing in linux is that I can now delete libqt-mt.so.3.3.7.  If there are any programs that have it open still, the OS will keep the file around.  So only when the program quits will the file be really deleted.</p><p>For the other problems like:</p><p>&gt; When you write code that communicates between processes, you generally expect that the same version of the code will be running in each process</p><p>Linux can never make that assumption in the first place, since you other process might not even be on the same machine (exported program) or it might be running in a scratchbox (a completely different environment) etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; Windows actually can replace a DLL that is in use by renaming the original then copying the new file into place .
However , the Windows world prefers not to do this .
Why ? Linux solves this with links .
To pick a random example : lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 2009-06-21 19 : 04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3 - &gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.7lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 2009-06-21 19 : 04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3 - &gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.7-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7534253 2008-03-02 12 : 04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3.7I 'm showing here an output of ls .
Say a program open libqt-mt.so.3 .
It gets 3.3.7 .
Now I install 3.3.8 while my programs are still running.lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 2009-06-21 19 : 04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3 - &gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.8lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 2009-06-21 19 : 04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3 - &gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.8-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7541660 2008-05-02 15 : 03 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3.8-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7534253 2008-03-02 12 : 04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3.7So when I install a package , all the new libraries get installed ( and their dependencies ) and after they are all installed , the symlinks get updated .
If a program wants specifically 3.3.7 and is still using it , they can still have that .
If they already have that library open , then it stays open .
If a new program requests libqt-mt.so.3 then they get the new one.The interesting thing in linux is that I can now delete libqt-mt.so.3.3.7 .
If there are any programs that have it open still , the OS will keep the file around .
So only when the program quits will the file be really deleted.For the other problems like : &gt; When you write code that communicates between processes , you generally expect that the same version of the code will be running in each processLinux can never make that assumption in the first place , since you other process might not even be on the same machine ( exported program ) or it might be running in a scratchbox ( a completely different environment ) etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; Windows actually can replace a DLL that is in use by renaming the original then copying the new file into place.
However, the Windows world prefers not to do this.
Why?Linux solves this with links.
To pick a random example:lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      17 2009-06-21 19:04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3 -&gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.7lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      17 2009-06-21 19:04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3 -&gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.7-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7534253 2008-03-02 12:04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3.7I'm showing here an output of ls.
Say a program open libqt-mt.so.3.
It gets 3.3.7.
Now I install 3.3.8 while my programs are still running.lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      17 2009-06-21 19:04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3 -&gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.8lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      17 2009-06-21 19:04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3 -&gt; libqt-mt.so.3.3.8-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7541660 2008-05-02 15:03 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3.8-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7534253 2008-03-02 12:04 /usr/lib/libqt-mt.so.3.3.7So when I install a package, all the new libraries get installed (and their dependencies) and after they are all installed, the symlinks get updated.
If a program wants specifically  3.3.7 and is still using it, they can still have that.
If they already have that library open, then it stays open.
If a new program requests libqt-mt.so.3  then they get the new one.The interesting thing in linux is that I can now delete libqt-mt.so.3.3.7.
If there are any programs that have it open still, the OS will keep the file around.
So only when the program quits will the file be really deleted.For the other problems like:&gt; When you write code that communicates between processes, you generally expect that the same version of the code will be running in each processLinux can never make that assumption in the first place, since you other process might not even be on the same machine (exported program) or it might be running in a scratchbox (a completely different environment) etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501497</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501627</id>
	<title>Re:GPL "terms of service"?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246132140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>DLA != EULA

The GPL is a Distributors License Agreement not an End User License Agreement.</htmltext>
<tokenext>DLA ! = EULA The GPL is a Distributors License Agreement not an End User License Agreement .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DLA != EULA

The GPL is a Distributors License Agreement not an End User License Agreement.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501551</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501693</id>
	<title>Ubuntu</title>
	<author>physburn</author>
	<datestamp>1246219500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually I haven't found i had to reboot ubuntu many times from
updates, maybe 4 times a year, after a heavy patch of the
Hal or the video drivers. Haven't said that i still haven't upgraded
to jaunty. I waited when It was fresh upgrade, then didn't fine the
time. Guess i've no excuse now, should be quick, but you have
to leave the time, just in case it buggers up your live services.
<p>
---
</p><p>
Question is Ksplice reliable enough for online servers. I'd rather
manually upgrade and be there to fix the systems, than risk
a shoody automatic system going down randomly.
</p><p>
---
</p><p>
<a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/blogs/Linux/feed.html" title="feeddistiller.com">Linux</a> [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ <a href="http://www.feeddistiller.com/" title="feeddistiller.com">Feed Distiller</a> [feeddistiller.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually I have n't found i had to reboot ubuntu many times from updates , maybe 4 times a year , after a heavy patch of the Hal or the video drivers .
Have n't said that i still have n't upgraded to jaunty .
I waited when It was fresh upgrade , then did n't fine the time .
Guess i 've no excuse now , should be quick , but you have to leave the time , just in case it buggers up your live services .
--- Question is Ksplice reliable enough for online servers .
I 'd rather manually upgrade and be there to fix the systems , than risk a shoody automatic system going down randomly .
--- Linux [ feeddistiller.com ] Feed @ Feed Distiller [ feeddistiller.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually I haven't found i had to reboot ubuntu many times from
updates, maybe 4 times a year, after a heavy patch of the
Hal or the video drivers.
Haven't said that i still haven't upgraded
to jaunty.
I waited when It was fresh upgrade, then didn't fine the
time.
Guess i've no excuse now, should be quick, but you have
to leave the time, just in case it buggers up your live services.
---

Question is Ksplice reliable enough for online servers.
I'd rather
manually upgrade and be there to fix the systems, than risk
a shoody automatic system going down randomly.
---

Linux [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ Feed Distiller [feeddistiller.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28510465</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora doing this since F9..</title>
	<author>n0tquitesane</author>
	<datestamp>1246216260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>


	
	
	
	
	
	
	


<p>So has <a href="http://bugs.gentoo.org/219272" title="gentoo.org" rel="nofollow">Gentoo,</a> [gentoo.org]  at
least unofficially.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So has Gentoo , [ gentoo.org ] at least unofficially .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>


	
	
	
	
	
	
	


So has Gentoo, [gentoo.org]  at
least unofficially.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501475</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501661</id>
	<title>aix?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246132500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>AIX 6.1 seems to have been doing concurrent kernel updates for about a year now, also the power5 and 6 boxes has been doing concurrent firmware updates for better than 3 years now pretty neat features to see hope they get more mainstream.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>AIX 6.1 seems to have been doing concurrent kernel updates for about a year now , also the power5 and 6 boxes has been doing concurrent firmware updates for better than 3 years now pretty neat features to see hope they get more mainstream .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>AIX 6.1 seems to have been doing concurrent kernel updates for about a year now, also the power5 and 6 boxes has been doing concurrent firmware updates for better than 3 years now pretty neat features to see hope they get more mainstream.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502503</id>
	<title>Re:Great!</title>
	<author>smallfries</author>
	<datestamp>1246191000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Watched Pulp Fiction too many times but I can't help but read that in a Christopher Walken voice and expect you to continue: </p><p><div class="quote"><p>"when he was shot down over Hanoi he had this laptop with him..."</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Watched Pulp Fiction too many times but I ca n't help but read that in a Christopher Walken voice and expect you to continue : " when he was shot down over Hanoi he had this laptop with him... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Watched Pulp Fiction too many times but I can't help but read that in a Christopher Walken voice and expect you to continue: "when he was shot down over Hanoi he had this laptop with him..."
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502515</id>
	<title>Re:GPL "terms of service"?</title>
	<author>mpe</author>
	<datestamp>1246191180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>In the broadest strokes, the GPL isn't that different from a EULA.</i> <br> <br>The only thing they have in common is the letter "L". You might just as well claim that an instruction manual isn't that different from a novel.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the broadest strokes , the GPL is n't that different from a EULA .
The only thing they have in common is the letter " L " .
You might just as well claim that an instruction manual is n't that different from a novel .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the broadest strokes, the GPL isn't that different from a EULA.
The only thing they have in common is the letter "L".
You might just as well claim that an instruction manual isn't that different from a novel.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501551</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501505</id>
	<title>You Fa1l It..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246130640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">BSD culminated in  ww.anti-slash.org</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>BSD culminated in ww.anti-slash.org [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>BSD culminated in  ww.anti-slash.org [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502063</id>
	<title>Microsoft's excuse for not updating</title>
	<author>Mask</author>
	<datestamp>1246183980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After reading <a href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2008.11.windowsconfidential.aspx" title="microsoft.com" rel="nofollow">Windows Can but Won't</a> [microsoft.com] I am still unimpressed. This article tries to hide a substantial feature preset in Linux but not in Windows. Call it a misfeature, a bug, an engineering decision or a precaution but, as it seems, Microsoft's filesystems do not support file removal well. If a DLL is in use you can't remove it without dire consequence, you are left with modifying the original file.</p><p>
On Linux, you can remove the DLL without destabilizing running applications. This is because the file is unlinked from the directory structure, appearing as if it was removed, and the old file contents is still accessible to running applications. On Linux, an update mechanism can remove the DLL and put a new DLL in its place without affecting any running applications. Running applications continue using the old DLL, posing no substantial stability risk.</p><p>
The Linux way isn't perfect either because running applications do not benefit from the update. Such an application will effectively use the old DLL until it is restarted giving a false sense of security. If an affected service is not restarted, then the computer is still at risk.
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After reading Windows Can but Wo n't [ microsoft.com ] I am still unimpressed .
This article tries to hide a substantial feature preset in Linux but not in Windows .
Call it a misfeature , a bug , an engineering decision or a precaution but , as it seems , Microsoft 's filesystems do not support file removal well .
If a DLL is in use you ca n't remove it without dire consequence , you are left with modifying the original file .
On Linux , you can remove the DLL without destabilizing running applications .
This is because the file is unlinked from the directory structure , appearing as if it was removed , and the old file contents is still accessible to running applications .
On Linux , an update mechanism can remove the DLL and put a new DLL in its place without affecting any running applications .
Running applications continue using the old DLL , posing no substantial stability risk .
The Linux way is n't perfect either because running applications do not benefit from the update .
Such an application will effectively use the old DLL until it is restarted giving a false sense of security .
If an affected service is not restarted , then the computer is still at risk .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After reading Windows Can but Won't [microsoft.com] I am still unimpressed.
This article tries to hide a substantial feature preset in Linux but not in Windows.
Call it a misfeature, a bug, an engineering decision or a precaution but, as it seems, Microsoft's filesystems do not support file removal well.
If a DLL is in use you can't remove it without dire consequence, you are left with modifying the original file.
On Linux, you can remove the DLL without destabilizing running applications.
This is because the file is unlinked from the directory structure, appearing as if it was removed, and the old file contents is still accessible to running applications.
On Linux, an update mechanism can remove the DLL and put a new DLL in its place without affecting any running applications.
Running applications continue using the old DLL, posing no substantial stability risk.
The Linux way isn't perfect either because running applications do not benefit from the update.
Such an application will effectively use the old DLL until it is restarted giving a false sense of security.
If an affected service is not restarted, then the computer is still at risk.
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501497</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501641</id>
	<title>For you geeks that don't "need" 100\% uptime...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246132380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Ksplice is still pretty neat, and worth playing around with (it's very very quick: after installing it's a little like boom boom boom, patches are applied). It also means that you can keep a fully patched kernel without having to compile one yourself every time a new patch comes out; a little different from being rebootless, but eminently useful for us mere mortals.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Ksplice is still pretty neat , and worth playing around with ( it 's very very quick : after installing it 's a little like boom boom boom , patches are applied ) .
It also means that you can keep a fully patched kernel without having to compile one yourself every time a new patch comes out ; a little different from being rebootless , but eminently useful for us mere mortals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ksplice is still pretty neat, and worth playing around with (it's very very quick: after installing it's a little like boom boom boom, patches are applied).
It also means that you can keep a fully patched kernel without having to compile one yourself every time a new patch comes out; a little different from being rebootless, but eminently useful for us mere mortals.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501687</id>
	<title>Concurrent Kernel Maintenance</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246219260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't this already available in AIX 6.1 released by IBM in which the kernel is actually mapped allowing modifications without rebooting? I believe something like 4/5 modules can be changed on the fly.<br>http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redpapers/pdfs/redp4367.pdf (PDF) section 2.3.15</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't this already available in AIX 6.1 released by IBM in which the kernel is actually mapped allowing modifications without rebooting ?
I believe something like 4/5 modules can be changed on the fly.http : //www.redbooks.ibm.com/redpapers/pdfs/redp4367.pdf ( PDF ) section 2.3.15</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't this already available in AIX 6.1 released by IBM in which the kernel is actually mapped allowing modifications without rebooting?
I believe something like 4/5 modules can be changed on the fly.http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redpapers/pdfs/redp4367.pdf (PDF) section 2.3.15</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503011</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between Linux and Windows</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246197360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>&gt; When you write code that communicates between processes, you generally expect that the same version of the code will be running in each process</p><p>Linux can never make that assumption in the first place, since you other process might not even be on the same machine (exported program) or it might be running in a scratchbox (a completely different environment) etc.</p></div><p>There are some badly behaving applications. Ever tried upgrading Wine while it's running? You won't be able to start a new Wine process until you shut down all running Wine apps, because the new Wine binary refuses to talk to old wineserver. KDE seems to have similar problems with its dcopserver. Upgrading NVidia X driver usually causes all OpenGL using programs fail to start, bacause new version of libGL refuses to talk to old kernel driver. I had cases of mod\_php crashing, because I updated MySQL without restarting Apache, and the old libmysqlclient had trouble talking to a new server. That's just a few most obvious examples off the top of my head.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; When you write code that communicates between processes , you generally expect that the same version of the code will be running in each processLinux can never make that assumption in the first place , since you other process might not even be on the same machine ( exported program ) or it might be running in a scratchbox ( a completely different environment ) etc.There are some badly behaving applications .
Ever tried upgrading Wine while it 's running ?
You wo n't be able to start a new Wine process until you shut down all running Wine apps , because the new Wine binary refuses to talk to old wineserver .
KDE seems to have similar problems with its dcopserver .
Upgrading NVidia X driver usually causes all OpenGL using programs fail to start , bacause new version of libGL refuses to talk to old kernel driver .
I had cases of mod \ _php crashing , because I updated MySQL without restarting Apache , and the old libmysqlclient had trouble talking to a new server .
That 's just a few most obvious examples off the top of my head .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; When you write code that communicates between processes, you generally expect that the same version of the code will be running in each processLinux can never make that assumption in the first place, since you other process might not even be on the same machine (exported program) or it might be running in a scratchbox (a completely different environment) etc.There are some badly behaving applications.
Ever tried upgrading Wine while it's running?
You won't be able to start a new Wine process until you shut down all running Wine apps, because the new Wine binary refuses to talk to old wineserver.
KDE seems to have similar problems with its dcopserver.
Upgrading NVidia X driver usually causes all OpenGL using programs fail to start, bacause new version of libGL refuses to talk to old kernel driver.
I had cases of mod\_php crashing, because I updated MySQL without restarting Apache, and the old libmysqlclient had trouble talking to a new server.
That's just a few most obvious examples off the top of my head.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502775</id>
	<title>Re:load of wank</title>
	<author>Repossessed</author>
	<datestamp>1246194480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Kernel level updates normally don't take effect until you reboot and load the new kernel.  This includes a fair number of security updates.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kernel level updates normally do n't take effect until you reboot and load the new kernel .
This includes a fair number of security updates .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kernel level updates normally don't take effect until you reboot and load the new kernel.
This includes a fair number of security updates.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28504645</id>
	<title>Re:Great!</title>
	<author>Anrego</author>
	<datestamp>1246210320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a cool piece of kit, but I wouldn't use this in a production environment.</p><p>If you are relying on one server to maintain 100\% uptime in a high availability (which most production environments are) situation, you are probably doing it wrong.</p><p>It's my opinion that in a ha environment, you \_should\_ be able to reboot a box with no loss of uptime to the system as a whole.</p><p>I would even go as far as recommending a reboot every 3 months or so to test your clustering/failover setup (because I think a lot of people set this up once, then never look at it again until they need it 2 years later). Additionally stuff like kernel updates might BREAK the way in which your box boots up. Much better to discover that right after the update than a year down the road when the box goes down because of a bad PSU. A test of your boxes ability to automatically go from power off to full availability is probably a good thing[tm]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a cool piece of kit , but I would n't use this in a production environment.If you are relying on one server to maintain 100 \ % uptime in a high availability ( which most production environments are ) situation , you are probably doing it wrong.It 's my opinion that in a ha environment , you \ _should \ _ be able to reboot a box with no loss of uptime to the system as a whole.I would even go as far as recommending a reboot every 3 months or so to test your clustering/failover setup ( because I think a lot of people set this up once , then never look at it again until they need it 2 years later ) .
Additionally stuff like kernel updates might BREAK the way in which your box boots up .
Much better to discover that right after the update than a year down the road when the box goes down because of a bad PSU .
A test of your boxes ability to automatically go from power off to full availability is probably a good thing [ tm ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a cool piece of kit, but I wouldn't use this in a production environment.If you are relying on one server to maintain 100\% uptime in a high availability (which most production environments are) situation, you are probably doing it wrong.It's my opinion that in a ha environment, you \_should\_ be able to reboot a box with no loss of uptime to the system as a whole.I would even go as far as recommending a reboot every 3 months or so to test your clustering/failover setup (because I think a lot of people set this up once, then never look at it again until they need it 2 years later).
Additionally stuff like kernel updates might BREAK the way in which your box boots up.
Much better to discover that right after the update than a year down the road when the box goes down because of a bad PSU.
A test of your boxes ability to automatically go from power off to full availability is probably a good thing[tm]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28504153</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft's excuse for not updating</title>
	<author>argiedot</author>
	<datestamp>1246207020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was just about to mention Firefox. I have updated other software while it's running, though, and those don't have any problems. Firefox just seems to do things differently.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was just about to mention Firefox .
I have updated other software while it 's running , though , and those do n't have any problems .
Firefox just seems to do things differently .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was just about to mention Firefox.
I have updated other software while it's running, though, and those don't have any problems.
Firefox just seems to do things differently.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503107</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503215</id>
	<title>Re:Less that 20 second reboot.</title>
	<author>RiotingPacifist</author>
	<datestamp>1246199460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>2 different activities:<br>*I shutdown when i finish what I'm doing and statup when i need my computer again.<br>*I don't want to be interrupted by reboots when I'm doing something.<br>And while servers have all kinds of rollover solutions, reducing the amount of time any one server is down is still good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>2 different activities : * I shutdown when i finish what I 'm doing and statup when i need my computer again .
* I do n't want to be interrupted by reboots when I 'm doing something.And while servers have all kinds of rollover solutions , reducing the amount of time any one server is down is still good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>2 different activities:*I shutdown when i finish what I'm doing and statup when i need my computer again.
*I don't want to be interrupted by reboots when I'm doing something.And while servers have all kinds of rollover solutions, reducing the amount of time any one server is down is still good.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501657</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28505477</id>
	<title>Re:load of wank</title>
	<author>colinrichardday</author>
	<datestamp>1246215480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How long does it take to restart Apache (or vsftpd or sshd), compared to how long it takes to reboot? Or if you are running multiple services and only need to restart one?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How long does it take to restart Apache ( or vsftpd or sshd ) , compared to how long it takes to reboot ?
Or if you are running multiple services and only need to restart one ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How long does it take to restart Apache (or vsftpd or sshd), compared to how long it takes to reboot?
Or if you are running multiple services and only need to restart one?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502907</id>
	<title>Re:load of wank</title>
	<author>Zero\_\_Kelvin</author>
	<datestamp>1246196100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>"get back to me when you have found a way to patch my network service without dropping the current open sessions, then i'll be really impressed."</p></div></blockquote><p>Done!  (I guess you didn't read TFA.)  Even if you couldn't patch on the fly and keep network sessions open, restarting a single service is an order of magnitude faster than rebooting the entire system, so you are either woefully incompetent or intentionally trying to misinform the masses.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" get back to me when you have found a way to patch my network service without dropping the current open sessions , then i 'll be really impressed. " Done !
( I guess you did n't read TFA .
) Even if you could n't patch on the fly and keep network sessions open , restarting a single service is an order of magnitude faster than rebooting the entire system , so you are either woefully incompetent or intentionally trying to misinform the masses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"get back to me when you have found a way to patch my network service without dropping the current open sessions, then i'll be really impressed."Done!
(I guess you didn't read TFA.
)  Even if you couldn't patch on the fly and keep network sessions open, restarting a single service is an order of magnitude faster than rebooting the entire system, so you are either woefully incompetent or intentionally trying to misinform the masses.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28509023</id>
	<title>Not quite the first.</title>
	<author>DeVilla</author>
	<datestamp>1246202340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>This makes Ubuntu the first OS that doesn't need to be rebooted for security updates.</p></div><p>Sorry, but no.  IBM has had that on iSeries (or what every they are calling it now) for a while.  I think the mainframe also has online updates.  In anycase, I once worked on the update code path for iSeries.  We were able to patch it's 'kernel code' (being IBM we had to make up a different name for a kernel) at run time.  There were very few things that could not be patched with an online fix.</p><p>All the same, I'm a linux bigot.  If Gentoo would pick this up, I'd be able to go longer without a reboot.  Now if only I could merge in a batch of updates without having to restart all my X apps.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This makes Ubuntu the first OS that does n't need to be rebooted for security updates.Sorry , but no .
IBM has had that on iSeries ( or what every they are calling it now ) for a while .
I think the mainframe also has online updates .
In anycase , I once worked on the update code path for iSeries .
We were able to patch it 's 'kernel code ' ( being IBM we had to make up a different name for a kernel ) at run time .
There were very few things that could not be patched with an online fix.All the same , I 'm a linux bigot .
If Gentoo would pick this up , I 'd be able to go longer without a reboot .
Now if only I could merge in a batch of updates without having to restart all my X apps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This makes Ubuntu the first OS that doesn't need to be rebooted for security updates.Sorry, but no.
IBM has had that on iSeries (or what every they are calling it now) for a while.
I think the mainframe also has online updates.
In anycase, I once worked on the update code path for iSeries.
We were able to patch it's 'kernel code' (being IBM we had to make up a different name for a kernel) at run time.
There were very few things that could not be patched with an online fix.All the same, I'm a linux bigot.
If Gentoo would pick this up, I'd be able to go longer without a reboot.
Now if only I could merge in a batch of updates without having to restart all my X apps.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28507589</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft's excuse for not updating</title>
	<author>lennier</author>
	<datestamp>1246188600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"I restart everything in X. It's quick, it's painless and way quicker than rebooting the whole computer. "</p><p>That's an illusion though. It's a little faster, sure, but in terms of the potential for losing user data, restarting X is just as invasive as restarting the whole box. It is most certainly NOT 'painless' unless all your documents are already saved and you've configured GNOME to reload all open apps on startup - and even then it's not quick.</p><p>One thing I've never understood. X contains within itself the built-in capability for the X server to run as a completely different process - heck, even on a different computer - than the X apps. In which case, if the X server crashed it wouldn't take out the applications and could be safely restarted. And yet, on all our Linux builds, we rig it so that gdm launches X and then launches the applications, so restarting X kills all the applications. Why do we do this? Wouldn't it be more stable if we separated the two? We'd actually be USING the neat distributed features of the X Protocol.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I restart everything in X. It 's quick , it 's painless and way quicker than rebooting the whole computer .
" That 's an illusion though .
It 's a little faster , sure , but in terms of the potential for losing user data , restarting X is just as invasive as restarting the whole box .
It is most certainly NOT 'painless ' unless all your documents are already saved and you 've configured GNOME to reload all open apps on startup - and even then it 's not quick.One thing I 've never understood .
X contains within itself the built-in capability for the X server to run as a completely different process - heck , even on a different computer - than the X apps .
In which case , if the X server crashed it would n't take out the applications and could be safely restarted .
And yet , on all our Linux builds , we rig it so that gdm launches X and then launches the applications , so restarting X kills all the applications .
Why do we do this ?
Would n't it be more stable if we separated the two ?
We 'd actually be USING the neat distributed features of the X Protocol .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I restart everything in X. It's quick, it's painless and way quicker than rebooting the whole computer.
"That's an illusion though.
It's a little faster, sure, but in terms of the potential for losing user data, restarting X is just as invasive as restarting the whole box.
It is most certainly NOT 'painless' unless all your documents are already saved and you've configured GNOME to reload all open apps on startup - and even then it's not quick.One thing I've never understood.
X contains within itself the built-in capability for the X server to run as a completely different process - heck, even on a different computer - than the X apps.
In which case, if the X server crashed it wouldn't take out the applications and could be safely restarted.
And yet, on all our Linux builds, we rig it so that gdm launches X and then launches the applications, so restarting X kills all the applications.
Why do we do this?
Wouldn't it be more stable if we separated the two?
We'd actually be USING the neat distributed features of the X Protocol.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503107</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501657</id>
	<title>Less that 20 second reboot.</title>
	<author>yourassOA</author>
	<datestamp>1246132440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't that kinda the big thing with Jaunty other that the cooler looking login? They make the boot time real short and two months later "Oh hey you don't need to reboot." This is pointless.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't that kinda the big thing with Jaunty other that the cooler looking login ?
They make the boot time real short and two months later " Oh hey you do n't need to reboot .
" This is pointless .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't that kinda the big thing with Jaunty other that the cooler looking login?
They make the boot time real short and two months later "Oh hey you don't need to reboot.
" This is pointless.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28504689</id>
	<title>I don't think this is accurate</title>
	<author>Herby Sagues</author>
	<datestamp>1246210560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>&gt; This makes Ubuntu the first OS that doesn't need to be rebooted for security updates

I'm pretty sure there are some types of patches that migth need a reboot (such as some updates to the thread scheduler or memory manager). There might not have been any of those since the last release, but there are likely to be some in the future. And Windows Server 2008 already provides hot patching capabilities for most types of updates. The reason why most patches cannot be applied hot is because making a fix a hot patch takes more developing and testing and thus many patches are released without this capability.
If you want to find out which OS was the first one that could be deployed without reboots to get patched, any Linux or Windows OS at the time of its release was like that (as no patches were available then). If you watn to know which one was the first OS that provided hot patching capabilities for critical components that were active, Windows Server 2008 was that.
What I think can be claimed about Ubuntu now is that it is the first OS that has a hot patching capability that covers all available patches at this time. Which is different.</htmltext>
<tokenext>&gt; This makes Ubuntu the first OS that does n't need to be rebooted for security updates I 'm pretty sure there are some types of patches that migth need a reboot ( such as some updates to the thread scheduler or memory manager ) .
There might not have been any of those since the last release , but there are likely to be some in the future .
And Windows Server 2008 already provides hot patching capabilities for most types of updates .
The reason why most patches can not be applied hot is because making a fix a hot patch takes more developing and testing and thus many patches are released without this capability .
If you want to find out which OS was the first one that could be deployed without reboots to get patched , any Linux or Windows OS at the time of its release was like that ( as no patches were available then ) .
If you watn to know which one was the first OS that provided hot patching capabilities for critical components that were active , Windows Server 2008 was that .
What I think can be claimed about Ubuntu now is that it is the first OS that has a hot patching capability that covers all available patches at this time .
Which is different .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>&gt; This makes Ubuntu the first OS that doesn't need to be rebooted for security updates

I'm pretty sure there are some types of patches that migth need a reboot (such as some updates to the thread scheduler or memory manager).
There might not have been any of those since the last release, but there are likely to be some in the future.
And Windows Server 2008 already provides hot patching capabilities for most types of updates.
The reason why most patches cannot be applied hot is because making a fix a hot patch takes more developing and testing and thus many patches are released without this capability.
If you want to find out which OS was the first one that could be deployed without reboots to get patched, any Linux or Windows OS at the time of its release was like that (as no patches were available then).
If you watn to know which one was the first OS that provided hot patching capabilities for critical components that were active, Windows Server 2008 was that.
What I think can be claimed about Ubuntu now is that it is the first OS that has a hot patching capability that covers all available patches at this time.
Which is different.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503321</id>
	<title>The GPL isn't an agreement!</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1246200300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>In the broadest strokes, the GPL isn't that different from a EULA. The main difference is the scope of the <b>agreement</b>.</p></div><p>Meh, no.  The GPL isn't an agreement.</p><p>BIG WARNING: I'm not a lawyer.  I haven't read much law, but I try to soak up some principles from discussions on slashdot, talks by Lessig, Moglen and Stallman, etc.</p><p>The way copyright works is like this: you write some code.  Everyone else is forbidden from doing certain things with that code, for a limited time.  The GPL is a formal way of saying "I give you permission to do it anyways".</p><p>One of the things the GPL gives you permission to do is redistribute the binaries and source.  It doesn't give you permission to redistribute the binaries alone*.</p><p>Note a key point, here: the GPL doesn't take any rights away from you that weren't already taken away by copyright law.</p><p>Next consider EULAs: they're contracts.  They say "we will offer you permission to use this software, if in return you promise us to $TERMS\_AND\_CONDITIONS".  (For instance, according to Bradley Kuhn (in his talks available on audio-video.gnu.org) states that as a term of the FrontPage EULA, you're not allowed to use the program to create pages which say bad things about Microsoft.)</p><p>One is a give.  The other is a give-and-take.</p><p>I think the big deal about this is that with EULAs, contract law comes into play.  That means the "buyer" (the party not creating the contract) has to have a reasonable chance of understanding it; it has to be negotiable; the parties must know what it says (or have had a reasonable opportunity to know what it says) before agreeing to it.</p><p>There's also a point to be made about contracts being for the benefit of the signing parties, whereas copyright is for the benefit of society.  That might create some interesting legal implications.</p><p>I do get your point: licenses and EULAs are pieces of text that say what you can and can't do with the software in question.  But, in a legal sense, they're different.  I think it's valuable to be able to make this distinction, and have a way of thinking about the implications of the difference.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In the broadest strokes , the GPL is n't that different from a EULA .
The main difference is the scope of the agreement.Meh , no .
The GPL is n't an agreement.BIG WARNING : I 'm not a lawyer .
I have n't read much law , but I try to soak up some principles from discussions on slashdot , talks by Lessig , Moglen and Stallman , etc.The way copyright works is like this : you write some code .
Everyone else is forbidden from doing certain things with that code , for a limited time .
The GPL is a formal way of saying " I give you permission to do it anyways " .One of the things the GPL gives you permission to do is redistribute the binaries and source .
It does n't give you permission to redistribute the binaries alone * .Note a key point , here : the GPL does n't take any rights away from you that were n't already taken away by copyright law.Next consider EULAs : they 're contracts .
They say " we will offer you permission to use this software , if in return you promise us to $ TERMS \ _AND \ _CONDITIONS " .
( For instance , according to Bradley Kuhn ( in his talks available on audio-video.gnu.org ) states that as a term of the FrontPage EULA , you 're not allowed to use the program to create pages which say bad things about Microsoft .
) One is a give .
The other is a give-and-take.I think the big deal about this is that with EULAs , contract law comes into play .
That means the " buyer " ( the party not creating the contract ) has to have a reasonable chance of understanding it ; it has to be negotiable ; the parties must know what it says ( or have had a reasonable opportunity to know what it says ) before agreeing to it.There 's also a point to be made about contracts being for the benefit of the signing parties , whereas copyright is for the benefit of society .
That might create some interesting legal implications.I do get your point : licenses and EULAs are pieces of text that say what you can and ca n't do with the software in question .
But , in a legal sense , they 're different .
I think it 's valuable to be able to make this distinction , and have a way of thinking about the implications of the difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the broadest strokes, the GPL isn't that different from a EULA.
The main difference is the scope of the agreement.Meh, no.
The GPL isn't an agreement.BIG WARNING: I'm not a lawyer.
I haven't read much law, but I try to soak up some principles from discussions on slashdot, talks by Lessig, Moglen and Stallman, etc.The way copyright works is like this: you write some code.
Everyone else is forbidden from doing certain things with that code, for a limited time.
The GPL is a formal way of saying "I give you permission to do it anyways".One of the things the GPL gives you permission to do is redistribute the binaries and source.
It doesn't give you permission to redistribute the binaries alone*.Note a key point, here: the GPL doesn't take any rights away from you that weren't already taken away by copyright law.Next consider EULAs: they're contracts.
They say "we will offer you permission to use this software, if in return you promise us to $TERMS\_AND\_CONDITIONS".
(For instance, according to Bradley Kuhn (in his talks available on audio-video.gnu.org) states that as a term of the FrontPage EULA, you're not allowed to use the program to create pages which say bad things about Microsoft.
)One is a give.
The other is a give-and-take.I think the big deal about this is that with EULAs, contract law comes into play.
That means the "buyer" (the party not creating the contract) has to have a reasonable chance of understanding it; it has to be negotiable; the parties must know what it says (or have had a reasonable opportunity to know what it says) before agreeing to it.There's also a point to be made about contracts being for the benefit of the signing parties, whereas copyright is for the benefit of society.
That might create some interesting legal implications.I do get your point: licenses and EULAs are pieces of text that say what you can and can't do with the software in question.
But, in a legal sense, they're different.
I think it's valuable to be able to make this distinction, and have a way of thinking about the implications of the difference.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501551</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28504231</id>
	<title>Re:load of wank</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246207740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>restarting sshd doesn't kill active sessions... That could just be good engineering though. Maybe it depends as much on the software you are running, as the patching method.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>restarting sshd does n't kill active sessions... That could just be good engineering though .
Maybe it depends as much on the software you are running , as the patching method .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>restarting sshd doesn't kill active sessions... That could just be good engineering though.
Maybe it depends as much on the software you are running, as the patching method.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28507167</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft's excuse for not updating</title>
	<author>init100</author>
	<datestamp>1246185360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Not if your running applications are using them, you can't. Everytime I update firefox with apt, firefox needs to be restarted because it starts doing weird crap (not opening new tabs, giving weird error messages). Same thing happens if I update gnome libraries.</p></div><p>Are you sure that this behavior is due to replaced shared libraries (.dll,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.so, etc)? I'd rather suspect some other type of file that is opened each time it is used, such as script and/or data files (in the case of Firefox, Javascript and XUL files used by the user interface).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not if your running applications are using them , you ca n't .
Everytime I update firefox with apt , firefox needs to be restarted because it starts doing weird crap ( not opening new tabs , giving weird error messages ) .
Same thing happens if I update gnome libraries.Are you sure that this behavior is due to replaced shared libraries ( .dll , .so , etc ) ?
I 'd rather suspect some other type of file that is opened each time it is used , such as script and/or data files ( in the case of Firefox , Javascript and XUL files used by the user interface ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not if your running applications are using them, you can't.
Everytime I update firefox with apt, firefox needs to be restarted because it starts doing weird crap (not opening new tabs, giving weird error messages).
Same thing happens if I update gnome libraries.Are you sure that this behavior is due to replaced shared libraries (.dll, .so, etc)?
I'd rather suspect some other type of file that is opened each time it is used, such as script and/or data files (in the case of Firefox, Javascript and XUL files used by the user interface).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503107</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503425</id>
	<title>Re:load of wank</title>
	<author>RiotingPacifist</author>
	<datestamp>1246201140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The time to restart a service is much less than that of a full os reboot, your complaining because your services will be down an order of magnitude less than before!</p><p>Patching network services without dropping open sessions is something that requires userspace work (it doesn't seam that hard to spawn a new process and have that process accept all new network connections) OR the ksplice approach could be adapted to almost any program (this would however require all package maintainers to learn how to analyze changes and produce code to get ksplice updates to work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The time to restart a service is much less than that of a full os reboot , your complaining because your services will be down an order of magnitude less than before ! Patching network services without dropping open sessions is something that requires userspace work ( it does n't seam that hard to spawn a new process and have that process accept all new network connections ) OR the ksplice approach could be adapted to almost any program ( this would however require all package maintainers to learn how to analyze changes and produce code to get ksplice updates to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The time to restart a service is much less than that of a full os reboot, your complaining because your services will be down an order of magnitude less than before!Patching network services without dropping open sessions is something that requires userspace work (it doesn't seam that hard to spawn a new process and have that process accept all new network connections) OR the ksplice approach could be adapted to almost any program (this would however require all package maintainers to learn how to analyze changes and produce code to get ksplice updates to work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28510551</id>
	<title>Re:Fedora doing this since F9..</title>
	<author>n0tquitesane</author>
	<datestamp>1246216740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>


	
	
	
	
	
	
	


<p>So has <a href="http://bugs.gentoo.org/219272" title="gentoo.org" rel="nofollow">Gentoo,</a> [gentoo.org]  at
least unofficially.</p><p>NQS</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So has Gentoo , [ gentoo.org ] at least unofficially.NQS</tokentext>
<sentencetext>


	
	
	
	
	
	
	


So has Gentoo, [gentoo.org]  at
least unofficially.NQS</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501475</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503935</id>
	<title>Mod sdasher (submitter) +5 Informative ;-)</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1246205400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks, sdasher, for submitting this story.</p><p>I very much like reading about cool new open source technology.  Sure, the law, politics and biotech stories are cool too, but cool new tech stuff is (for me) the real meat of slashdot, which is sadly underrepresented these days.</p><p>Thanks for submitting, much appreciated<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks , sdasher , for submitting this story.I very much like reading about cool new open source technology .
Sure , the law , politics and biotech stories are cool too , but cool new tech stuff is ( for me ) the real meat of slashdot , which is sadly underrepresented these days.Thanks for submitting , much appreciated : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks, sdasher, for submitting this story.I very much like reading about cool new open source technology.
Sure, the law, politics and biotech stories are cool too, but cool new tech stuff is (for me) the real meat of slashdot, which is sadly underrepresented these days.Thanks for submitting, much appreciated :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28535981</id>
	<title>First OS? Not that I recall...</title>
	<author>etrnl</author>
	<datestamp>1246362720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe it was Solaris which first allowed live kernel updates without reboots... at the expense of a minor amount of memory being inaccessible until the box was rebooted. I think that was one of the big features of Solaris 7/8?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe it was Solaris which first allowed live kernel updates without reboots... at the expense of a minor amount of memory being inaccessible until the box was rebooted .
I think that was one of the big features of Solaris 7/8 ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe it was Solaris which first allowed live kernel updates without reboots... at the expense of a minor amount of memory being inaccessible until the box was rebooted.
I think that was one of the big features of Solaris 7/8?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28506075</id>
	<title>Re:Less that 20 second reboot.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246219440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They are two separate issues. Boot time is more important for laptops. Not needing to reboot is more important for desktops/servers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They are two separate issues .
Boot time is more important for laptops .
Not needing to reboot is more important for desktops/servers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are two separate issues.
Boot time is more important for laptops.
Not needing to reboot is more important for desktops/servers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501657</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501707</id>
	<title>Re:Great!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246219740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can see it now...
"Kid.  This was your fathers laptop.  Cherish it as he did.  It currently has just over 6 decades of uptime.  With any luck, you'll be able to reach 13 or 14..."</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can see it now.. . " Kid. This was your fathers laptop .
Cherish it as he did .
It currently has just over 6 decades of uptime .
With any luck , you 'll be able to reach 13 or 14... "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can see it now...
"Kid.  This was your fathers laptop.
Cherish it as he did.
It currently has just over 6 decades of uptime.
With any luck, you'll be able to reach 13 or 14..."</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501469</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502153</id>
	<title>Re:Less that 20 second reboot.</title>
	<author>Gordonjcp</author>
	<datestamp>1246185480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>This is pointless.</i> </p><p>Not really.  If I want to reboot, it's faster.  If I don't want to reboot, I don't have to.  At present I keep my system multi-booting between Jaunty and Gutsy, so I can use either the most recent version or the one with working low-latency audio.  I also have a Haiku partition for testing things on real hardware without having qemu get in the way.  I reboot quite a lot, and being able to get Jaunty up nice and quickly (although still too slow compared to Haiku) is useful.</p><p>One other thing to remember is that both improving boot times and having rebootless updates are both someone's project.  Having one doesn't preclude having the other.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is pointless .
Not really .
If I want to reboot , it 's faster .
If I do n't want to reboot , I do n't have to .
At present I keep my system multi-booting between Jaunty and Gutsy , so I can use either the most recent version or the one with working low-latency audio .
I also have a Haiku partition for testing things on real hardware without having qemu get in the way .
I reboot quite a lot , and being able to get Jaunty up nice and quickly ( although still too slow compared to Haiku ) is useful.One other thing to remember is that both improving boot times and having rebootless updates are both someone 's project .
Having one does n't preclude having the other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is pointless.
Not really.
If I want to reboot, it's faster.
If I don't want to reboot, I don't have to.
At present I keep my system multi-booting between Jaunty and Gutsy, so I can use either the most recent version or the one with working low-latency audio.
I also have a Haiku partition for testing things on real hardware without having qemu get in the way.
I reboot quite a lot, and being able to get Jaunty up nice and quickly (although still too slow compared to Haiku) is useful.One other thing to remember is that both improving boot times and having rebootless updates are both someone's project.
Having one doesn't preclude having the other.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501657</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28506591</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft's excuse for not updating</title>
	<author>nmb3000</author>
	<datestamp>1246180080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>On Linux, you can remove the DLL without destabilizing running applications. This is because the file is unlinked from the directory structure, appearing as if it was removed, and the old file contents is still accessible to running applications. On Linux, an update mechanism can remove the DLL and put a new DLL in its place without affecting any running applications. Running applications continue using the old DLL, posing no substantial stability risk.</i></p><p>That sounds good, but what happens when the code present in the replaced file is paged out to disk?  Linux, like Windows I believe, doesn't page that to the swapfile/pagefile since it's *already* on the disk.  It just unloads it from memory knowing it can reload it from the original file later on.  Wouldn't this cause problems when library A is replaced, and then program Foo which loaded A is paged out to disk.  When Foo comes back, it gets the new code from the replaced version of A which may or may not be compatible with the original one.</p><p>Also, like another poster said, you usually need to restart applications using libraries that have been replaced.  The problem then becomes knowing which applications are using which libraries and when.  If you're really on an important machine you don't want to restart, isn't finding out three days after you update that important program X has been running amok because libstuff.so was replaced worse?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>On Linux , you can remove the DLL without destabilizing running applications .
This is because the file is unlinked from the directory structure , appearing as if it was removed , and the old file contents is still accessible to running applications .
On Linux , an update mechanism can remove the DLL and put a new DLL in its place without affecting any running applications .
Running applications continue using the old DLL , posing no substantial stability risk.That sounds good , but what happens when the code present in the replaced file is paged out to disk ?
Linux , like Windows I believe , does n't page that to the swapfile/pagefile since it 's * already * on the disk .
It just unloads it from memory knowing it can reload it from the original file later on .
Would n't this cause problems when library A is replaced , and then program Foo which loaded A is paged out to disk .
When Foo comes back , it gets the new code from the replaced version of A which may or may not be compatible with the original one.Also , like another poster said , you usually need to restart applications using libraries that have been replaced .
The problem then becomes knowing which applications are using which libraries and when .
If you 're really on an important machine you do n't want to restart , is n't finding out three days after you update that important program X has been running amok because libstuff.so was replaced worse ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On Linux, you can remove the DLL without destabilizing running applications.
This is because the file is unlinked from the directory structure, appearing as if it was removed, and the old file contents is still accessible to running applications.
On Linux, an update mechanism can remove the DLL and put a new DLL in its place without affecting any running applications.
Running applications continue using the old DLL, posing no substantial stability risk.That sounds good, but what happens when the code present in the replaced file is paged out to disk?
Linux, like Windows I believe, doesn't page that to the swapfile/pagefile since it's *already* on the disk.
It just unloads it from memory knowing it can reload it from the original file later on.
Wouldn't this cause problems when library A is replaced, and then program Foo which loaded A is paged out to disk.
When Foo comes back, it gets the new code from the replaced version of A which may or may not be compatible with the original one.Also, like another poster said, you usually need to restart applications using libraries that have been replaced.
The problem then becomes knowing which applications are using which libraries and when.
If you're really on an important machine you don't want to restart, isn't finding out three days after you update that important program X has been running amok because libstuff.so was replaced worse?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502063</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501499</id>
	<title>Windows has been doing this for 6 years</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246130520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Read up on Windows "Hot Patching".  Windows Server 2003 supports this, and so has every version of NT since then.</p><p>Here are some links:</p><p>http://support.microsoft.com/kb/897341 -- Explains HotPatching, which revs of the NT kernel support it, and which patches are set up for hot patching.</p><p>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms173507(VS.80).aspx -- Explains how to compile images for use with hotpatching in Visual C++</p><p>Seriously, get your facts straight.  Windows has been doing this for 6 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Read up on Windows " Hot Patching " .
Windows Server 2003 supports this , and so has every version of NT since then.Here are some links : http : //support.microsoft.com/kb/897341 -- Explains HotPatching , which revs of the NT kernel support it , and which patches are set up for hot patching.http : //msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms173507 ( VS.80 ) .aspx -- Explains how to compile images for use with hotpatching in Visual C + + Seriously , get your facts straight .
Windows has been doing this for 6 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Read up on Windows "Hot Patching".
Windows Server 2003 supports this, and so has every version of NT since then.Here are some links:http://support.microsoft.com/kb/897341 -- Explains HotPatching, which revs of the NT kernel support it, and which patches are set up for hot patching.http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms173507(VS.80).aspx -- Explains how to compile images for use with hotpatching in Visual C++Seriously, get your facts straight.
Windows has been doing this for 6 years.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28519513</id>
	<title>Re:Less that 20 second reboot.</title>
	<author>stickystyle</author>
	<datestamp>1246268940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While Jaunty may reboot in a short time, my servers hardware may take several min to reboot while they scan SCSI chains, attach iSCSI devices, wait for timeouts for various LOM cards to click by, etc... long before linux comes into play.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While Jaunty may reboot in a short time , my servers hardware may take several min to reboot while they scan SCSI chains , attach iSCSI devices , wait for timeouts for various LOM cards to click by , etc... long before linux comes into play .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While Jaunty may reboot in a short time, my servers hardware may take several min to reboot while they scan SCSI chains, attach iSCSI devices, wait for timeouts for various LOM cards to click by, etc... long before linux comes into play.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501657</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502915</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between Linux and Windows</title>
	<author>Hurricane78</author>
	<datestamp>1246196160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Windows itself doesn't. But the virii and rootkits do this quite happily. TYVM. ^^</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Windows itself does n't .
But the virii and rootkits do this quite happily .
TYVM. ^ ^</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Windows itself doesn't.
But the virii and rootkits do this quite happily.
TYVM. ^^</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501497</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503423</id>
	<title>Re:Microsoft's excuse for not updating</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246201080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Microsoft's filesystems do not support file removal well. If a DLL is in use you can't remove it without dire consequence, you are left with modifying the original file.</p></div><p>You misunderstood the article.  The mechanism is slightly different (on Linux you unlink, on Windows you rename) but the effect is <b>exactly</b> the same.  Running instances of applications continue to use the old library.  New instances get the new library.  This can create subtle incompatibilities on both Linux and Windows.  Seriously, there is no meaningful difference.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft 's filesystems do not support file removal well .
If a DLL is in use you ca n't remove it without dire consequence , you are left with modifying the original file.You misunderstood the article .
The mechanism is slightly different ( on Linux you unlink , on Windows you rename ) but the effect is exactly the same .
Running instances of applications continue to use the old library .
New instances get the new library .
This can create subtle incompatibilities on both Linux and Windows .
Seriously , there is no meaningful difference .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft's filesystems do not support file removal well.
If a DLL is in use you can't remove it without dire consequence, you are left with modifying the original file.You misunderstood the article.
The mechanism is slightly different (on Linux you unlink, on Windows you rename) but the effect is exactly the same.
Running instances of applications continue to use the old library.
New instances get the new library.
This can create subtle incompatibilities on both Linux and Windows.
Seriously, there is no meaningful difference.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502063</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28505221</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between Linux and Windows</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246213920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, Linux (along with regular UNIX) performs this using inodes to replace files in use. Each file on a UNIX file system is associated with an inode. The directory entry that you see, such as "libqt-ms.so" points to a particular inode, which is a particular instance of a file.</p><p>Typical a package management system (such as the case with rpm, which I have trussed before to confirm) will unpack the new library as libqt-ms.so.tmp in the same directory. It'll then 'mv' the tmp file to the original filename. What 'mv' actually does is change the directory entry of libqt-ms.so to point to the new inode that was given to libqt-ms.so.tmp. This approach can be used on any file in UNIX/Linux to replace any file that is currently open. Only when all the open file handles to the old inode are closed, is the file/inode marked as deleted in the filesystem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , Linux ( along with regular UNIX ) performs this using inodes to replace files in use .
Each file on a UNIX file system is associated with an inode .
The directory entry that you see , such as " libqt-ms.so " points to a particular inode , which is a particular instance of a file.Typical a package management system ( such as the case with rpm , which I have trussed before to confirm ) will unpack the new library as libqt-ms.so.tmp in the same directory .
It 'll then 'mv ' the tmp file to the original filename .
What 'mv ' actually does is change the directory entry of libqt-ms.so to point to the new inode that was given to libqt-ms.so.tmp .
This approach can be used on any file in UNIX/Linux to replace any file that is currently open .
Only when all the open file handles to the old inode are closed , is the file/inode marked as deleted in the filesystem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, Linux (along with regular UNIX) performs this using inodes to replace files in use.
Each file on a UNIX file system is associated with an inode.
The directory entry that you see, such as "libqt-ms.so" points to a particular inode, which is a particular instance of a file.Typical a package management system (such as the case with rpm, which I have trussed before to confirm) will unpack the new library as libqt-ms.so.tmp in the same directory.
It'll then 'mv' the tmp file to the original filename.
What 'mv' actually does is change the directory entry of libqt-ms.so to point to the new inode that was given to libqt-ms.so.tmp.
This approach can be used on any file in UNIX/Linux to replace any file that is currently open.
Only when all the open file handles to the old inode are closed, is the file/inode marked as deleted in the filesystem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28509741</id>
	<title>Re:GPL "terms of service"?</title>
	<author>noundi</author>
	<datestamp>1246209360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't mean to be condescending, but if the information you ask of is of any value to you, why don't you read the license? If you're lazy you can just read the summary of the wikipedia entry about GPL.<br> <br>Oh and if you're thinking "bah why bother", the vast majority of OSSs are licensed to GPL and it remains the same. Next time you stumble upon one you'd know what you're allowed to do or not do with it, unlike the regular EULAs that keep changing from software to software. Nobody cares to read those unless there's a big interest, usually based on financial interest. Don't treat the widely used licenses such as GPL the same way as another whatever-software license.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't mean to be condescending , but if the information you ask of is of any value to you , why do n't you read the license ?
If you 're lazy you can just read the summary of the wikipedia entry about GPL .
Oh and if you 're thinking " bah why bother " , the vast majority of OSSs are licensed to GPL and it remains the same .
Next time you stumble upon one you 'd know what you 're allowed to do or not do with it , unlike the regular EULAs that keep changing from software to software .
Nobody cares to read those unless there 's a big interest , usually based on financial interest .
Do n't treat the widely used licenses such as GPL the same way as another whatever-software license .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't mean to be condescending, but if the information you ask of is of any value to you, why don't you read the license?
If you're lazy you can just read the summary of the wikipedia entry about GPL.
Oh and if you're thinking "bah why bother", the vast majority of OSSs are licensed to GPL and it remains the same.
Next time you stumble upon one you'd know what you're allowed to do or not do with it, unlike the regular EULAs that keep changing from software to software.
Nobody cares to read those unless there's a big interest, usually based on financial interest.
Don't treat the widely used licenses such as GPL the same way as another whatever-software license.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28502217</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501925</id>
	<title>Re:load of wank</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246181280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well well well another World of Warcraft dummy who has never held a job even picking up lint near a server room. The length of time of booting some servers vs restarting Apache, a massive SQL server, or a custom app server vs shutting down your services, shutting down the server, bringing the server back up (some servers are annoyingly slow with with SCSI and RAID detection) and then when your system gets into a usable state, starting your service. I don't know $SERVICE\_RESTART\_TIME sounds much better than $SYSTEM\_REBOOT\_TIME + $SERVICE\_START\_TIME. Go back to playing Wow with your penis in hand and leave the real work to the employed adults.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well well well another World of Warcraft dummy who has never held a job even picking up lint near a server room .
The length of time of booting some servers vs restarting Apache , a massive SQL server , or a custom app server vs shutting down your services , shutting down the server , bringing the server back up ( some servers are annoyingly slow with with SCSI and RAID detection ) and then when your system gets into a usable state , starting your service .
I do n't know $ SERVICE \ _RESTART \ _TIME sounds much better than $ SYSTEM \ _REBOOT \ _TIME + $ SERVICE \ _START \ _TIME .
Go back to playing Wow with your penis in hand and leave the real work to the employed adults .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well well well another World of Warcraft dummy who has never held a job even picking up lint near a server room.
The length of time of booting some servers vs restarting Apache, a massive SQL server, or a custom app server vs shutting down your services, shutting down the server, bringing the server back up (some servers are annoyingly slow with with SCSI and RAID detection) and then when your system gets into a usable state, starting your service.
I don't know $SERVICE\_RESTART\_TIME sounds much better than $SYSTEM\_REBOOT\_TIME + $SERVICE\_START\_TIME.
Go back to playing Wow with your penis in hand and leave the real work to the employed adults.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501557</id>
	<title>Interesting start</title>
	<author>ErikTheRed</author>
	<datestamp>1246131480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's nice to see them running it on Ubuntu 9.04, but if they want to make money they should go after the LTS releases and SLES / RedHat.</p><p>Looks cool though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's nice to see them running it on Ubuntu 9.04 , but if they want to make money they should go after the LTS releases and SLES / RedHat.Looks cool though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's nice to see them running it on Ubuntu 9.04, but if they want to make money they should go after the LTS releases and SLES / RedHat.Looks cool though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501533</id>
	<title>Hmmmm......</title>
	<author>Maxim Kovalenko</author>
	<datestamp>1246131000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Nice idea....I just wonder how long it'll be before somebody forks it?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Nice idea....I just wonder how long it 'll be before somebody forks it ?
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nice idea....I just wonder how long it'll be before somebody forks it?
;)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501431</id>
	<title>GPL "terms of service"?</title>
	<author>innocent\_white\_lamb</author>
	<datestamp>1246129140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They appear to be releasing this licensed as GPL v2, but they have a "terms of service" click-through, according to their screenshot.</p><p>That doesn't give me great confidence that they really understand the GPL....</p><p>The technology looks pretty cool, though.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They appear to be releasing this licensed as GPL v2 , but they have a " terms of service " click-through , according to their screenshot.That does n't give me great confidence that they really understand the GPL....The technology looks pretty cool , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They appear to be releasing this licensed as GPL v2, but they have a "terms of service" click-through, according to their screenshot.That doesn't give me great confidence that they really understand the GPL....The technology looks pretty cool, though.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28507313</id>
	<title>Re:Great!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246186620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd tell you my OpenVMS uptime but it would be awkward and uncomfortable to see you cry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd tell you my OpenVMS uptime but it would be awkward and uncomfortable to see you cry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd tell you my OpenVMS uptime but it would be awkward and uncomfortable to see you cry.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28504471</id>
	<title>Re:Great!</title>
	<author>lordofwhee</author>
	<datestamp>1246209180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your father's laptop: a less-often-restarted weapon for a more available age.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your father 's laptop : a less-often-restarted weapon for a more available age .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your father's laptop: a less-often-restarted weapon for a more available age.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28501707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28508615</id>
	<title>(in)security updates</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246197960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It seems to me that there is no mention of the security implications of making it easier for anyone (admin or attacker) to place code in a running kernel.  Those of us who run hardened systems often go to great lengths to limit the attack vectors through which one might be able to modify a running kernel (disabling writable<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/dev/kmem, disabling LKM support, disabling privileged I/O, randomizing the kernel stack etc...).  Furthermore, one of the most obvious events that trips alarms in the heads of many security professionals and paranoid admins, is the inexplicable rebooting of a machine.  When one of my machines does this, the first thing I will do is examine the kernel image on the disk and compare its checksum to known-good checksums.  I also know I am not alone in this practice.  I don't think I want to utilize a tool which is designed to ease the circumvention of all of that so it isn't really viable to anyone who desires to harden their hosts against kernel-side rootkits.  In my opinion, this is yet another example of security and convenience proving to be mutually exclusive.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It seems to me that there is no mention of the security implications of making it easier for anyone ( admin or attacker ) to place code in a running kernel .
Those of us who run hardened systems often go to great lengths to limit the attack vectors through which one might be able to modify a running kernel ( disabling writable /dev/kmem , disabling LKM support , disabling privileged I/O , randomizing the kernel stack etc... ) .
Furthermore , one of the most obvious events that trips alarms in the heads of many security professionals and paranoid admins , is the inexplicable rebooting of a machine .
When one of my machines does this , the first thing I will do is examine the kernel image on the disk and compare its checksum to known-good checksums .
I also know I am not alone in this practice .
I do n't think I want to utilize a tool which is designed to ease the circumvention of all of that so it is n't really viable to anyone who desires to harden their hosts against kernel-side rootkits .
In my opinion , this is yet another example of security and convenience proving to be mutually exclusive .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It seems to me that there is no mention of the security implications of making it easier for anyone (admin or attacker) to place code in a running kernel.
Those of us who run hardened systems often go to great lengths to limit the attack vectors through which one might be able to modify a running kernel (disabling writable /dev/kmem, disabling LKM support, disabling privileged I/O, randomizing the kernel stack etc...).
Furthermore, one of the most obvious events that trips alarms in the heads of many security professionals and paranoid admins, is the inexplicable rebooting of a machine.
When one of my machines does this, the first thing I will do is examine the kernel image on the disk and compare its checksum to known-good checksums.
I also know I am not alone in this practice.
I don't think I want to utilize a tool which is designed to ease the circumvention of all of that so it isn't really viable to anyone who desires to harden their hosts against kernel-side rootkits.
In my opinion, this is yet another example of security and convenience proving to be mutually exclusive.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_2238255.28503651</id>
	<title>Not sure it's practical still</title>
	<author>Bruha</author>
	<datestamp>1246202880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For desktop users what happens if the Kernel changes enough to screw up your graphics drivers?  Crashing X is not going to be a popular option.</p><p>Even for servers - engineers need to design their farms so they can take servers down.  Especially those who have commercial interests involved.  Lack of proper redundancy so upgrades can be performed is poor planning and a problem waiting to happen.  Reboots stress the hardware a bit, and if your server was on the verge of failing it may just do that or post a code.  Splicing the kernel keeping up just increases the off chance that when you turn your back and want to enjoy your weekend the server goes up in smoke.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For desktop users what happens if the Kernel changes enough to screw up your graphics drivers ?
Crashing X is not going to be a popular option.Even for servers - engineers need to design their farms so they can take servers down .
Especially those who have commercial interests involved .
Lack of proper redundancy so upgrades can be performed is poor planning and a problem waiting to happen .
Reboots stress the hardware a bit , and if your server was on the verge of failing it may just do that or post a code .
Splicing the kernel keeping up just increases the off chance that when you turn your back and want to enjoy your weekend the server goes up in smoke .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For desktop users what happens if the Kernel changes enough to screw up your graphics drivers?
Crashing X is not going to be a popular option.Even for servers - engineers need to design their farms so they can take servers down.
Especially those who have commercial interests involved.
Lack of proper redundancy so upgrades can be performed is poor planning and a problem waiting to happen.
Reboots stress the hardware a bit, and if your server was on the verge of failing it may just do that or post a code.
Splicing the kernel keeping up just increases the off chance that when you turn your back and want to enjoy your weekend the server goes up in smoke.</sentencetext>
</comment>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_27_2238255_0</id>
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