<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_27_0344230</id>
	<title>The Internet Helps Iran Silence Activists</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1246104960000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://hughpickens.com/slashdot/" rel="nofollow">Hugh Pickens</a> writes <i>"Over the last couple of weeks, those who believe in the transformative power of technology to battle an oppressive state have pointed to Iran as a test case. However, as Farhad Manjoo writes on Slate, the real conclusion about news now coming out of Iran is that for regimes bent on survival, <a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2221397">electronic dissent is easier to suppress</a> than organizing methods of the past. Using a system installed last year, <a href="http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/06/22/1245205/Siemens-Nokia-Helped-Provide-Irans-Censoring-Tech">built in part by Nokia and Siemens</a>, the government routes all digital traffic in the country through a single choke point, using the capabilities of deep packet inspection to monitor every e-mail, tweet, blog post, and possibly even every phone call placed in Iran. 'Compare that with East Germany, in which the Stasi managed to tap, at most, about 100,000 phone lines &mdash; a gargantuan task that required 2,000 full-time technicians to monitor the calls,' writes Manjoo. The effects of this control have been seen over the past couple days, with only a few harrowing pictures and videos getting through Iran's closed net. For most citizens, posting videos and even tweeting eyewitness accounts remains fraught with peril, and the same tools that activists use can be used by the government to spread disinformation. The government is also using crowdsourcing by posting pictures of protesters and <a href="http://iran.whyweprotest.net/off-topic/2029-we-need-bring-down-http-gerdab-ir-fa-pages-cid-407-a.html">asking citizens for help in identifying the activists</a>. 'If you think about it, that's no surprise,' writes Manjoo. 'Who said that only the good guys get to use the power of the Web to their advantage?'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hugh Pickens writes " Over the last couple of weeks , those who believe in the transformative power of technology to battle an oppressive state have pointed to Iran as a test case .
However , as Farhad Manjoo writes on Slate , the real conclusion about news now coming out of Iran is that for regimes bent on survival , electronic dissent is easier to suppress than organizing methods of the past .
Using a system installed last year , built in part by Nokia and Siemens , the government routes all digital traffic in the country through a single choke point , using the capabilities of deep packet inspection to monitor every e-mail , tweet , blog post , and possibly even every phone call placed in Iran .
'Compare that with East Germany , in which the Stasi managed to tap , at most , about 100,000 phone lines    a gargantuan task that required 2,000 full-time technicians to monitor the calls, ' writes Manjoo .
The effects of this control have been seen over the past couple days , with only a few harrowing pictures and videos getting through Iran 's closed net .
For most citizens , posting videos and even tweeting eyewitness accounts remains fraught with peril , and the same tools that activists use can be used by the government to spread disinformation .
The government is also using crowdsourcing by posting pictures of protesters and asking citizens for help in identifying the activists .
'If you think about it , that 's no surprise, ' writes Manjoo .
'Who said that only the good guys get to use the power of the Web to their advantage ?
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hugh Pickens writes "Over the last couple of weeks, those who believe in the transformative power of technology to battle an oppressive state have pointed to Iran as a test case.
However, as Farhad Manjoo writes on Slate, the real conclusion about news now coming out of Iran is that for regimes bent on survival, electronic dissent is easier to suppress than organizing methods of the past.
Using a system installed last year, built in part by Nokia and Siemens, the government routes all digital traffic in the country through a single choke point, using the capabilities of deep packet inspection to monitor every e-mail, tweet, blog post, and possibly even every phone call placed in Iran.
'Compare that with East Germany, in which the Stasi managed to tap, at most, about 100,000 phone lines — a gargantuan task that required 2,000 full-time technicians to monitor the calls,' writes Manjoo.
The effects of this control have been seen over the past couple days, with only a few harrowing pictures and videos getting through Iran's closed net.
For most citizens, posting videos and even tweeting eyewitness accounts remains fraught with peril, and the same tools that activists use can be used by the government to spread disinformation.
The government is also using crowdsourcing by posting pictures of protesters and asking citizens for help in identifying the activists.
'If you think about it, that's no surprise,' writes Manjoo.
'Who said that only the good guys get to use the power of the Web to their advantage?
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494115</id>
	<title>Duh!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246112040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Three words: encryption!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Three words : encryption !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Three words: encryption!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496873</id>
	<title>Re:Can Iranian Regime MITM all of Iran?</title>
	<author>rosvall</author>
	<datestamp>1246135020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While it certainly is a thought-provoking scenario you are describing, there are other programs for communication than browsers that comes with certificates, and many of those programs are downloaded from all sorts of obscure sites. To somehow intercept and tamper with ALL downloaded programs containing a certificate is just not possible.<br>Except, of course, in some hypothetical country where internet filtering is based on white-listing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While it certainly is a thought-provoking scenario you are describing , there are other programs for communication than browsers that comes with certificates , and many of those programs are downloaded from all sorts of obscure sites .
To somehow intercept and tamper with ALL downloaded programs containing a certificate is just not possible.Except , of course , in some hypothetical country where internet filtering is based on white-listing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While it certainly is a thought-provoking scenario you are describing, there are other programs for communication than browsers that comes with certificates, and many of those programs are downloaded from all sorts of obscure sites.
To somehow intercept and tamper with ALL downloaded programs containing a certificate is just not possible.Except, of course, in some hypothetical country where internet filtering is based on white-listing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494545</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494219</id>
	<title>effectiveness</title>
	<author>Tom</author>
	<datestamp>1246113120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The effects of this control have been seen over the past couple days, with only a few harrowing pictures and videos getting through Iran's closed net.</p></div><p>To properly judge the effects, you would have to know how many do <b>not</b> get through. If you're seing 100, but only 200 were sent, the effectiveness of the filter is 50\%. But if 1000 were sent, it is 90\%. You can't judge without knowing the second data point.</p><p>So maybe the filter effectively, or maybe the unrest isn't as large as the west makes it. Don't forget that the USA already staged a coup in Iran within the life time of many of us here. Who says the reporting about unrest and revolution is entirely true? It only takes ten people or so to fake a few hundred twitter accounts, youtube videos, etc.</p><p>Movie hint: "Wag The Dog"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The effects of this control have been seen over the past couple days , with only a few harrowing pictures and videos getting through Iran 's closed net.To properly judge the effects , you would have to know how many do not get through .
If you 're seing 100 , but only 200 were sent , the effectiveness of the filter is 50 \ % .
But if 1000 were sent , it is 90 \ % .
You ca n't judge without knowing the second data point.So maybe the filter effectively , or maybe the unrest is n't as large as the west makes it .
Do n't forget that the USA already staged a coup in Iran within the life time of many of us here .
Who says the reporting about unrest and revolution is entirely true ?
It only takes ten people or so to fake a few hundred twitter accounts , youtube videos , etc.Movie hint : " Wag The Dog "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The effects of this control have been seen over the past couple days, with only a few harrowing pictures and videos getting through Iran's closed net.To properly judge the effects, you would have to know how many do not get through.
If you're seing 100, but only 200 were sent, the effectiveness of the filter is 50\%.
But if 1000 were sent, it is 90\%.
You can't judge without knowing the second data point.So maybe the filter effectively, or maybe the unrest isn't as large as the west makes it.
Don't forget that the USA already staged a coup in Iran within the life time of many of us here.
Who says the reporting about unrest and revolution is entirely true?
It only takes ten people or so to fake a few hundred twitter accounts, youtube videos, etc.Movie hint: "Wag The Dog"
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495849</id>
	<title>BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU</title>
	<author>Jetrel</author>
	<datestamp>1246127100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We have always been at war of Eurasia!!</p><p>With a staff of 2,000 full-time technicians to monitor the calls, this reminds me of 1984. Or should I say, "Thoughtcrime does not entail death. Thoughtcrime IS death."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have always been at war of Eurasia !
! With a staff of 2,000 full-time technicians to monitor the calls , this reminds me of 1984 .
Or should I say , " Thoughtcrime does not entail death .
Thoughtcrime IS death .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have always been at war of Eurasia!
!With a staff of 2,000 full-time technicians to monitor the calls, this reminds me of 1984.
Or should I say, "Thoughtcrime does not entail death.
Thoughtcrime IS death.
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493917</id>
	<title>You can help.</title>
	<author>morgan\_greywolf</author>
	<datestamp>1246109640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can help.  Get involved by going over to the <a href="http://www.catb.org/esr/nedanet/" title="catb.org" rel="nofollow">NedaNet Resources Page</a> [catb.org] and setting up a squid proxy or, better yet, a Tor proxy, to help the Iranian dissidents.  This is a real, live underground network, being run by Eric Raymond and some other folks who are remaining anonymous.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can help .
Get involved by going over to the NedaNet Resources Page [ catb.org ] and setting up a squid proxy or , better yet , a Tor proxy , to help the Iranian dissidents .
This is a real , live underground network , being run by Eric Raymond and some other folks who are remaining anonymous .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can help.
Get involved by going over to the NedaNet Resources Page [catb.org] and setting up a squid proxy or, better yet, a Tor proxy, to help the Iranian dissidents.
This is a real, live underground network, being run by Eric Raymond and some other folks who are remaining anonymous.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28497421</id>
	<title>Re:US citizens' have their hands tied</title>
	<author>Repossessed</author>
	<datestamp>1246095420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Correction: It is illegal to export computer software or hardware of any kind to Iran, not just strong crypto.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Correction : It is illegal to export computer software or hardware of any kind to Iran , not just strong crypto .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Correction: It is illegal to export computer software or hardware of any kind to Iran, not just strong crypto.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494017</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28521879</id>
	<title>Re:Steganography</title>
	<author>sowth</author>
	<datestamp>1246279620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Significant space, inbound/outbound traffic? I haven't checked lately, but I thought you could set how much it used. Are you saying they set the default to multiple GBs now or something?

</p><p>WTF does truecrypt have to do with this? Sure if they somehow figure out you are the one who published an inflammatory paper, they could prove it with your computer, but the design of Freenet was made to make it difficult to impossible for them to figure out who wrote the paper in the first place. If they already know who you are, there is no point using freenet in the first place.

</p><p>If they know who you are, most goon squads don't care about proof, they just "accidentally" shoot you while they execute a search warrant. Unless they are more cowardly, then they just follow you around and try to ticket / arrest you for any excuse they can find until you can't function. Assuming they are police, anyway. Corporations, "religious" organizations, organized crime or private citizens have other ways. (False police reports, lawsuits, slander, harassing you at work to get you fired, etc)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Significant space , inbound/outbound traffic ?
I have n't checked lately , but I thought you could set how much it used .
Are you saying they set the default to multiple GBs now or something ?
WTF does truecrypt have to do with this ?
Sure if they somehow figure out you are the one who published an inflammatory paper , they could prove it with your computer , but the design of Freenet was made to make it difficult to impossible for them to figure out who wrote the paper in the first place .
If they already know who you are , there is no point using freenet in the first place .
If they know who you are , most goon squads do n't care about proof , they just " accidentally " shoot you while they execute a search warrant .
Unless they are more cowardly , then they just follow you around and try to ticket / arrest you for any excuse they can find until you ca n't function .
Assuming they are police , anyway .
Corporations , " religious " organizations , organized crime or private citizens have other ways .
( False police reports , lawsuits , slander , harassing you at work to get you fired , etc )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Significant space, inbound/outbound traffic?
I haven't checked lately, but I thought you could set how much it used.
Are you saying they set the default to multiple GBs now or something?
WTF does truecrypt have to do with this?
Sure if they somehow figure out you are the one who published an inflammatory paper, they could prove it with your computer, but the design of Freenet was made to make it difficult to impossible for them to figure out who wrote the paper in the first place.
If they already know who you are, there is no point using freenet in the first place.
If they know who you are, most goon squads don't care about proof, they just "accidentally" shoot you while they execute a search warrant.
Unless they are more cowardly, then they just follow you around and try to ticket / arrest you for any excuse they can find until you can't function.
Assuming they are police, anyway.
Corporations, "religious" organizations, organized crime or private citizens have other ways.
(False police reports, lawsuits, slander, harassing you at work to get you fired, etc)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495229</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493873</id>
	<title>another way to look at it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246108980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>\_corporations\_ help silence activists in Iran</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>\ _corporations \ _ help silence activists in Iran</tokentext>
<sentencetext>\_corporations\_ help silence activists in Iran</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28502223</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption VS Deep Packet Inspection</title>
	<author>Stanislav\_J</author>
	<datestamp>1246186740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, lots of fun. Keep reminding yourself how much fun you're having as the Feds get their investigation against you cranking. This is like when the warrantless spying revelations led some to suggest that we append a slew of "hot" keywords and phrases (terrorism, bomb, islam, allah, death to america, etc.) to every e-mail in order to flood the governments' efforts with a lot of extra, useless work. These blithely proposed schemes would never work because "normal" people have no interest in such games.</p><p>See, as much as we lambaste the notion <i>in principle,</i> in a way the authorities really ARE justified in believing you have something sinister to hide if you do things like use Tor or TrueCrypt, or routinely securely wipe your deleted files and sensitive info, or engage in or advocate "sabotage" such as the above scheme. They are justified in that belief because the only folks who do these things are mostly either technogeeks, "privacy nuts," or actual bad guys. And all those groups put together still only account for a very minuscule percentage of the population. Unless anti-snooping technologies and code are by default built-in to every piece of software and operating system out there, operating under the radar without the active participation of the user, any attempt to use these methods to thwart the eavesdroppers just puts up a BIG RED FLAG to the snoopers.</p><p>The average Joe honestly believes he has nothing to hide, yet I frequently drum up the famous quote of Cardinal Richelieu "Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find an excuse in them to hang him." Something he said or did in innocence, in the passion and self-discovery of youth, as a joke, or merely playing "devil's advocate" can come back to haunt him, big-time. It may not rise to the level of something that will get him sent to Guantanamo, but could lead to unwanted scrutiny that can one day deny him a plum job, or at the very least embarrass him in the eyes of his family, friends, or peers. But you will never convince him (nor the tens of millions like him) that he has any reason to worry about privacy, or to encrypt, conceal, or obfuscate his communications to the Nth degree. And that is why those few that DO take such measures, whether due to principle, paranoia, or actual perfidy, will always be putting up a huge flashing neon sign that says "let's check this guy out."</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , lots of fun .
Keep reminding yourself how much fun you 're having as the Feds get their investigation against you cranking .
This is like when the warrantless spying revelations led some to suggest that we append a slew of " hot " keywords and phrases ( terrorism , bomb , islam , allah , death to america , etc .
) to every e-mail in order to flood the governments ' efforts with a lot of extra , useless work .
These blithely proposed schemes would never work because " normal " people have no interest in such games.See , as much as we lambaste the notion in principle , in a way the authorities really ARE justified in believing you have something sinister to hide if you do things like use Tor or TrueCrypt , or routinely securely wipe your deleted files and sensitive info , or engage in or advocate " sabotage " such as the above scheme .
They are justified in that belief because the only folks who do these things are mostly either technogeeks , " privacy nuts , " or actual bad guys .
And all those groups put together still only account for a very minuscule percentage of the population .
Unless anti-snooping technologies and code are by default built-in to every piece of software and operating system out there , operating under the radar without the active participation of the user , any attempt to use these methods to thwart the eavesdroppers just puts up a BIG RED FLAG to the snoopers.The average Joe honestly believes he has nothing to hide , yet I frequently drum up the famous quote of Cardinal Richelieu " Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men , and I will find an excuse in them to hang him .
" Something he said or did in innocence , in the passion and self-discovery of youth , as a joke , or merely playing " devil 's advocate " can come back to haunt him , big-time .
It may not rise to the level of something that will get him sent to Guantanamo , but could lead to unwanted scrutiny that can one day deny him a plum job , or at the very least embarrass him in the eyes of his family , friends , or peers .
But you will never convince him ( nor the tens of millions like him ) that he has any reason to worry about privacy , or to encrypt , conceal , or obfuscate his communications to the Nth degree .
And that is why those few that DO take such measures , whether due to principle , paranoia , or actual perfidy , will always be putting up a huge flashing neon sign that says " let 's check this guy out .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, lots of fun.
Keep reminding yourself how much fun you're having as the Feds get their investigation against you cranking.
This is like when the warrantless spying revelations led some to suggest that we append a slew of "hot" keywords and phrases (terrorism, bomb, islam, allah, death to america, etc.
) to every e-mail in order to flood the governments' efforts with a lot of extra, useless work.
These blithely proposed schemes would never work because "normal" people have no interest in such games.See, as much as we lambaste the notion in principle, in a way the authorities really ARE justified in believing you have something sinister to hide if you do things like use Tor or TrueCrypt, or routinely securely wipe your deleted files and sensitive info, or engage in or advocate "sabotage" such as the above scheme.
They are justified in that belief because the only folks who do these things are mostly either technogeeks, "privacy nuts," or actual bad guys.
And all those groups put together still only account for a very minuscule percentage of the population.
Unless anti-snooping technologies and code are by default built-in to every piece of software and operating system out there, operating under the radar without the active participation of the user, any attempt to use these methods to thwart the eavesdroppers just puts up a BIG RED FLAG to the snoopers.The average Joe honestly believes he has nothing to hide, yet I frequently drum up the famous quote of Cardinal Richelieu "Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find an excuse in them to hang him.
" Something he said or did in innocence, in the passion and self-discovery of youth, as a joke, or merely playing "devil's advocate" can come back to haunt him, big-time.
It may not rise to the level of something that will get him sent to Guantanamo, but could lead to unwanted scrutiny that can one day deny him a plum job, or at the very least embarrass him in the eyes of his family, friends, or peers.
But you will never convince him (nor the tens of millions like him) that he has any reason to worry about privacy, or to encrypt, conceal, or obfuscate his communications to the Nth degree.
And that is why those few that DO take such measures, whether due to principle, paranoia, or actual perfidy, will always be putting up a huge flashing neon sign that says "let's check this guy out.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496125</id>
	<title>Please don't feed him.</title>
	<author>Grendel Drago</author>
	<datestamp>1246129740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Eric <a href="http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1096" title="ibiblio.org">"I now expect to remain continuously armed for the duration of the Iranian crisis"</a> [ibiblio.org] Raymond is already paranoid enough, thanks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Eric " I now expect to remain continuously armed for the duration of the Iranian crisis " [ ibiblio.org ] Raymond is already paranoid enough , thanks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Eric "I now expect to remain continuously armed for the duration of the Iranian crisis" [ibiblio.org] Raymond is already paranoid enough, thanks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495101</id>
	<title>Re:The internet never forgets</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1246120620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And it works in the past, too.</p><p>
How many people in Iran in the past posted comments and sent messages that were well within acceptable norms five years ago, and they have forgotten all about. No one ever even said anything to them about them.</p><p>
But the security forces have had, since then, them on a list of 'troublemakers', and the very first thing they did now was set up surveillance on them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And it works in the past , too .
How many people in Iran in the past posted comments and sent messages that were well within acceptable norms five years ago , and they have forgotten all about .
No one ever even said anything to them about them .
But the security forces have had , since then , them on a list of 'troublemakers ' , and the very first thing they did now was set up surveillance on them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And it works in the past, too.
How many people in Iran in the past posted comments and sent messages that were well within acceptable norms five years ago, and they have forgotten all about.
No one ever even said anything to them about them.
But the security forces have had, since then, them on a list of 'troublemakers', and the very first thing they did now was set up surveillance on them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494091</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494801</id>
	<title>Re:The internet never forgets</title>
	<author>MadCow42</author>
	<datestamp>1246118580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Unless they are successful in a regime change. That is the whole point, no?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Unless they are successful in a regime change .
That is the whole point , no ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unless they are successful in a regime change.
That is the whole point, no?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494091</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495279</id>
	<title>Greenwave</title>
	<author>Penguinoflight</author>
	<datestamp>1246122060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since nobody else has posted this: there is an effort to take down the government "activist reporting" tool inside iran.  Currently this is being organized largely by 888chan at <a href="http://888chan.org/iran/" title="888chan.org">http://888chan.org/iran/</a> [888chan.org] - note this site does contain nsfw content on some pages.</p><p>I'm not sure that I'm really for Ahmadinejad's competition, but there's not a whole lot of chance to make the situation worse by replacing a corrupt leader.  If anything we can use the practice for countering government terrorism at home.  I don't think anyone is happy with the direction of most governments, here in the states or in Europe the norm is edging to a nanny state.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since nobody else has posted this : there is an effort to take down the government " activist reporting " tool inside iran .
Currently this is being organized largely by 888chan at http : //888chan.org/iran/ [ 888chan.org ] - note this site does contain nsfw content on some pages.I 'm not sure that I 'm really for Ahmadinejad 's competition , but there 's not a whole lot of chance to make the situation worse by replacing a corrupt leader .
If anything we can use the practice for countering government terrorism at home .
I do n't think anyone is happy with the direction of most governments , here in the states or in Europe the norm is edging to a nanny state .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since nobody else has posted this: there is an effort to take down the government "activist reporting" tool inside iran.
Currently this is being organized largely by 888chan at http://888chan.org/iran/ [888chan.org] - note this site does contain nsfw content on some pages.I'm not sure that I'm really for Ahmadinejad's competition, but there's not a whole lot of chance to make the situation worse by replacing a corrupt leader.
If anything we can use the practice for countering government terrorism at home.
I don't think anyone is happy with the direction of most governments, here in the states or in Europe the norm is edging to a nanny state.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495973</id>
	<title>Re:not much different</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246128300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Seems that people in power around the world share the same priorities. Most importantly: Staying in power and having control comes first. Everything else is secondary to that.</i> </p><p>Well this is a bit of a catch 22. If they can't stay in power, then all of their other objectives are moot anyways, so they have to try to stay in power.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seems that people in power around the world share the same priorities .
Most importantly : Staying in power and having control comes first .
Everything else is secondary to that .
Well this is a bit of a catch 22 .
If they ca n't stay in power , then all of their other objectives are moot anyways , so they have to try to stay in power .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seems that people in power around the world share the same priorities.
Most importantly: Staying in power and having control comes first.
Everything else is secondary to that.
Well this is a bit of a catch 22.
If they can't stay in power, then all of their other objectives are moot anyways, so they have to try to stay in power.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494285</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494207</id>
	<title>too bad Facebook is not encrypted</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246113120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Too bad Facebook doesn't give you https.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Too bad Facebook does n't give you https .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too bad Facebook doesn't give you https.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494091</id>
	<title>The internet never forgets</title>
	<author>petes\_PoV</author>
	<datestamp>1246111800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>The classic mistake made by newbies (and slow learners) is to assume that stuff you put on the internet years ago somehow gets lost or forgotten.
<p>
It doesn't
</p><p>
Sadly some people in Iran, will learn this the hard way. When their security forces finally get around to processing all the blogs, tweets, SMS, emails, usenet posts, youtube videos, facebook entries and other permanent electronic records of comments they may have thought were innocent - or got caught up in the enthusiasm of the moment.
</p><p>
While it may only cost people in "free" countries a job offer or a place at university - these guys could end up paying with their lives.
</p><p>
In this case, the internet may have done more harm than good.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The classic mistake made by newbies ( and slow learners ) is to assume that stuff you put on the internet years ago somehow gets lost or forgotten .
It does n't Sadly some people in Iran , will learn this the hard way .
When their security forces finally get around to processing all the blogs , tweets , SMS , emails , usenet posts , youtube videos , facebook entries and other permanent electronic records of comments they may have thought were innocent - or got caught up in the enthusiasm of the moment .
While it may only cost people in " free " countries a job offer or a place at university - these guys could end up paying with their lives .
In this case , the internet may have done more harm than good .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The classic mistake made by newbies (and slow learners) is to assume that stuff you put on the internet years ago somehow gets lost or forgotten.
It doesn't

Sadly some people in Iran, will learn this the hard way.
When their security forces finally get around to processing all the blogs, tweets, SMS, emails, usenet posts, youtube videos, facebook entries and other permanent electronic records of comments they may have thought were innocent - or got caught up in the enthusiasm of the moment.
While it may only cost people in "free" countries a job offer or a place at university - these guys could end up paying with their lives.
In this case, the internet may have done more harm than good.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28500567</id>
	<title>welcome to the 21st century</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246120440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Authoritarianism isn't the kind of damage the internet routes around. This is an abuse of technology and it's one that all of us can end. You either have the internet or you don't, and if you do there is nothing that can stop you from the inherent freedoms designed into the medium. Even if it's as simple as running a Tor node on your home computer, you can join in on subverting the Iranian theocracy. Of course you know that there is much more you can do. This is the kind of situation where the few who care about the black hat scene do not care. If you doubt it, do you think the RIAA and friends would do anything if they discovered you were sharing their "property" with the people of Iran? They'll skip you over and find another grandmother to sue. Do you think the FBI and friends will care if they discover you hacked Iran's Gibson? If anything you will be offered a "position".<br>It seems some don't believe the internet is inherently liberatory, when we said "information wants to be free" if they even listened they thought it meant we wanted to steal music. It's time to show them the reality of that statement. It's time to teach the world a valuable lesson about life in the 21st century.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Authoritarianism is n't the kind of damage the internet routes around .
This is an abuse of technology and it 's one that all of us can end .
You either have the internet or you do n't , and if you do there is nothing that can stop you from the inherent freedoms designed into the medium .
Even if it 's as simple as running a Tor node on your home computer , you can join in on subverting the Iranian theocracy .
Of course you know that there is much more you can do .
This is the kind of situation where the few who care about the black hat scene do not care .
If you doubt it , do you think the RIAA and friends would do anything if they discovered you were sharing their " property " with the people of Iran ?
They 'll skip you over and find another grandmother to sue .
Do you think the FBI and friends will care if they discover you hacked Iran 's Gibson ?
If anything you will be offered a " position " .It seems some do n't believe the internet is inherently liberatory , when we said " information wants to be free " if they even listened they thought it meant we wanted to steal music .
It 's time to show them the reality of that statement .
It 's time to teach the world a valuable lesson about life in the 21st century .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Authoritarianism isn't the kind of damage the internet routes around.
This is an abuse of technology and it's one that all of us can end.
You either have the internet or you don't, and if you do there is nothing that can stop you from the inherent freedoms designed into the medium.
Even if it's as simple as running a Tor node on your home computer, you can join in on subverting the Iranian theocracy.
Of course you know that there is much more you can do.
This is the kind of situation where the few who care about the black hat scene do not care.
If you doubt it, do you think the RIAA and friends would do anything if they discovered you were sharing their "property" with the people of Iran?
They'll skip you over and find another grandmother to sue.
Do you think the FBI and friends will care if they discover you hacked Iran's Gibson?
If anything you will be offered a "position".It seems some don't believe the internet is inherently liberatory, when we said "information wants to be free" if they even listened they thought it meant we wanted to steal music.
It's time to show them the reality of that statement.
It's time to teach the world a valuable lesson about life in the 21st century.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496639</id>
	<title>Re:The internet never forgets</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246133520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The way around some of this is to be anonymous or blog under false identity. If enough people do this, it isn't too hard to add a lot of noise to the database such that getting a positive ID becomes difficult.</p><p>In regards to getting around control of the internet, I'm surprised there isn't some form of wireless sneakernet sufficiently developed yet. Something that would resemble wardriving, but would compare files available at public nodes. New files uploaded or downloaded from the static or mobile nodes, etc. Also you should be able to run filters or set permissions on files in the nodes to limit potential spam or prevent overwrites. Basically, imagine a situation where the internet is being cutoff. But instead of that being the end of it, you still have alternatives. Now you go to your public drop folder and wait for some guy two blocks down to drive past and upload all the latest news. And in turn he's able to pick up and spread anything you want public. And after that, you can share with the neighbor next door after he turns his computer on after coming home. Etc. It should also be possible to throw a layer of encryption on top of this, so participants can control who gets what info and prevent contamination. If there's enough physical mobility in the population and enough willing participents to act as mobile nodes, the data should be able to go across entire cities if not cross country. Of course developing or being able to use this depends on wifi being ubiquitous and people having freedom to travel. That might be a problem in some places.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The way around some of this is to be anonymous or blog under false identity .
If enough people do this , it is n't too hard to add a lot of noise to the database such that getting a positive ID becomes difficult.In regards to getting around control of the internet , I 'm surprised there is n't some form of wireless sneakernet sufficiently developed yet .
Something that would resemble wardriving , but would compare files available at public nodes .
New files uploaded or downloaded from the static or mobile nodes , etc .
Also you should be able to run filters or set permissions on files in the nodes to limit potential spam or prevent overwrites .
Basically , imagine a situation where the internet is being cutoff .
But instead of that being the end of it , you still have alternatives .
Now you go to your public drop folder and wait for some guy two blocks down to drive past and upload all the latest news .
And in turn he 's able to pick up and spread anything you want public .
And after that , you can share with the neighbor next door after he turns his computer on after coming home .
Etc. It should also be possible to throw a layer of encryption on top of this , so participants can control who gets what info and prevent contamination .
If there 's enough physical mobility in the population and enough willing participents to act as mobile nodes , the data should be able to go across entire cities if not cross country .
Of course developing or being able to use this depends on wifi being ubiquitous and people having freedom to travel .
That might be a problem in some places .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The way around some of this is to be anonymous or blog under false identity.
If enough people do this, it isn't too hard to add a lot of noise to the database such that getting a positive ID becomes difficult.In regards to getting around control of the internet, I'm surprised there isn't some form of wireless sneakernet sufficiently developed yet.
Something that would resemble wardriving, but would compare files available at public nodes.
New files uploaded or downloaded from the static or mobile nodes, etc.
Also you should be able to run filters or set permissions on files in the nodes to limit potential spam or prevent overwrites.
Basically, imagine a situation where the internet is being cutoff.
But instead of that being the end of it, you still have alternatives.
Now you go to your public drop folder and wait for some guy two blocks down to drive past and upload all the latest news.
And in turn he's able to pick up and spread anything you want public.
And after that, you can share with the neighbor next door after he turns his computer on after coming home.
Etc. It should also be possible to throw a layer of encryption on top of this, so participants can control who gets what info and prevent contamination.
If there's enough physical mobility in the population and enough willing participents to act as mobile nodes, the data should be able to go across entire cities if not cross country.
Of course developing or being able to use this depends on wifi being ubiquitous and people having freedom to travel.
That might be a problem in some places.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494091</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493993</id>
	<title>Re:another way to look at it</title>
	<author>neomunk</author>
	<datestamp>1246110660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Posting to undo accidental redundant mod...</p><p>A first post that expresses an opinion other than letting us know the temperature of some urine, and I go and hit redundant of all things.  Sorry.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Posting to undo accidental redundant mod...A first post that expresses an opinion other than letting us know the temperature of some urine , and I go and hit redundant of all things .
Sorry .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Posting to undo accidental redundant mod...A first post that expresses an opinion other than letting us know the temperature of some urine, and I go and hit redundant of all things.
Sorry.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493873</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495229</id>
	<title>Re:Steganography</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1246121580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>What if everyone used, say Freenet for publishing instead of http? The government would have much more trouble finding or censoring them.</i> </p><p>Freenet demands significant space on your drive and significant inbound and outbound traffic.</p><p>Freenet needs as many active nodes and supernodes as it can get to remain efficient and secure.</p><p> I have often wondered precisely how many.</p><p>TrueCrypt can hide a file or folder. It can't conceal traffic moving in and out your home.</p><p> That marks the limit of "plausible deniability."</p><p>The secret police doesn't think geek. It has its own definition of what is "Plausible," its own definition of what is "Proof" - and its own definition of what is "Pain."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What if everyone used , say Freenet for publishing instead of http ?
The government would have much more trouble finding or censoring them .
Freenet demands significant space on your drive and significant inbound and outbound traffic.Freenet needs as many active nodes and supernodes as it can get to remain efficient and secure .
I have often wondered precisely how many.TrueCrypt can hide a file or folder .
It ca n't conceal traffic moving in and out your home .
That marks the limit of " plausible deniability .
" The secret police does n't think geek .
It has its own definition of what is " Plausible , " its own definition of what is " Proof " - and its own definition of what is " Pain .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What if everyone used, say Freenet for publishing instead of http?
The government would have much more trouble finding or censoring them.
Freenet demands significant space on your drive and significant inbound and outbound traffic.Freenet needs as many active nodes and supernodes as it can get to remain efficient and secure.
I have often wondered precisely how many.TrueCrypt can hide a file or folder.
It can't conceal traffic moving in and out your home.
That marks the limit of "plausible deniability.
"The secret police doesn't think geek.
It has its own definition of what is "Plausible," its own definition of what is "Proof" - and its own definition of what is "Pain.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493927</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494299</id>
	<title>Re:You can help.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246113780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2009/6/22/85636/2777" title="kuro5hin.org" rel="nofollow">lol @ ESR and his delusions of grandeur.</a> [kuro5hin.org] Nedanet is of <a href="http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2009/6/22/85636/2777/29#29" title="kuro5hin.org" rel="nofollow">questionable utility</a> [kuro5hin.org] at best, except maybe to linkspammers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>lol @ ESR and his delusions of grandeur .
[ kuro5hin.org ] Nedanet is of questionable utility [ kuro5hin.org ] at best , except maybe to linkspammers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>lol @ ESR and his delusions of grandeur.
[kuro5hin.org] Nedanet is of questionable utility [kuro5hin.org] at best, except maybe to linkspammers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493917</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495439</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption VS Deep Packet Inspection</title>
	<author>ceoyoyo</author>
	<datestamp>1246123500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Obligatory <a href="http://xkcd.com/538/" title="xkcd.com">xkcd.</a> [xkcd.com]</p><p>Is anyone surprised that you can't have a revolution by Twitter?  There's a song about starting a revolution from your bed.  And something else about revolutions not being televised.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Obligatory xkcd .
[ xkcd.com ] Is anyone surprised that you ca n't have a revolution by Twitter ?
There 's a song about starting a revolution from your bed .
And something else about revolutions not being televised .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Obligatory xkcd.
[xkcd.com]Is anyone surprised that you can't have a revolution by Twitter?
There's a song about starting a revolution from your bed.
And something else about revolutions not being televised.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494089</id>
	<title>Re:US citizens' have their hands tied - SO WHAT?</title>
	<author>fnj</author>
	<datestamp>1246111740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The past called and says you shouldn't be living there any more.  The days when anybody cared about the U.S. trying to keep the genie in a bottle are long gone.  Uh, the rest of the world understands technology too and is fully capable of working with it.  GnuPG is mirrored around the world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The past called and says you should n't be living there any more .
The days when anybody cared about the U.S. trying to keep the genie in a bottle are long gone .
Uh , the rest of the world understands technology too and is fully capable of working with it .
GnuPG is mirrored around the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The past called and says you shouldn't be living there any more.
The days when anybody cared about the U.S. trying to keep the genie in a bottle are long gone.
Uh, the rest of the world understands technology too and is fully capable of working with it.
GnuPG is mirrored around the world.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494017</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493937</id>
	<title>Pile'o'poop article</title>
	<author>sakdoctor</author>
	<datestamp>1246109880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you have access to a computer, a net connect, and encryption then you have a better tool for communication than in any other era. Comparisons with Nazi Germany be damned.<br>If you don't have one of the above, you have much bigger problems to worry about than YRO.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you have access to a computer , a net connect , and encryption then you have a better tool for communication than in any other era .
Comparisons with Nazi Germany be damned.If you do n't have one of the above , you have much bigger problems to worry about than YRO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you have access to a computer, a net connect, and encryption then you have a better tool for communication than in any other era.
Comparisons with Nazi Germany be damned.If you don't have one of the above, you have much bigger problems to worry about than YRO.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495061</id>
	<title>Re:Of course.</title>
	<author>Mr. Slippery</author>
	<datestamp>1246120380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <i>And exactly how are you going to ban 'encrypted traffic' . There is no way to define what encrypt traffic looks like , that's one off the advantages of encryption.</i></p></div> </blockquote><p>Of course you can define what encrypt traffic looks like, if you don't mind false positives. You do statistical analysis, and anything that doesn't look like plain English -- or in this case, Farsi -- text, is banned. If you want to allow images, you can perform similar analysis, and have a group of your minions spot-check the intercepted traffic for anything that looks suspicious, and then go beat the living shit out of the sender.

</p><p>Yes, this doesn't prevent coded messages or steganography, but it sure cuts down the communications bandwidth available to your opponents. If you have to distribute a code book to communicate, you're at a big handicap.

</p><p>The best digital communications available to a resistance movement would be dial-up, point-to-point, like the old FidoNet BBS systems. Maybe with pre-paid cell phones instead of dial-up lines...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And exactly how are you going to ban 'encrypted traffic ' .
There is no way to define what encrypt traffic looks like , that 's one off the advantages of encryption .
Of course you can define what encrypt traffic looks like , if you do n't mind false positives .
You do statistical analysis , and anything that does n't look like plain English -- or in this case , Farsi -- text , is banned .
If you want to allow images , you can perform similar analysis , and have a group of your minions spot-check the intercepted traffic for anything that looks suspicious , and then go beat the living shit out of the sender .
Yes , this does n't prevent coded messages or steganography , but it sure cuts down the communications bandwidth available to your opponents .
If you have to distribute a code book to communicate , you 're at a big handicap .
The best digital communications available to a resistance movement would be dial-up , point-to-point , like the old FidoNet BBS systems .
Maybe with pre-paid cell phones instead of dial-up lines.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> And exactly how are you going to ban 'encrypted traffic' .
There is no way to define what encrypt traffic looks like , that's one off the advantages of encryption.
Of course you can define what encrypt traffic looks like, if you don't mind false positives.
You do statistical analysis, and anything that doesn't look like plain English -- or in this case, Farsi -- text, is banned.
If you want to allow images, you can perform similar analysis, and have a group of your minions spot-check the intercepted traffic for anything that looks suspicious, and then go beat the living shit out of the sender.
Yes, this doesn't prevent coded messages or steganography, but it sure cuts down the communications bandwidth available to your opponents.
If you have to distribute a code book to communicate, you're at a big handicap.
The best digital communications available to a resistance movement would be dial-up, point-to-point, like the old FidoNet BBS systems.
Maybe with pre-paid cell phones instead of dial-up lines...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494203</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495593</id>
	<title>Re:another way to look at it</title>
	<author>causality</author>
	<datestamp>1246124700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Or criminal acts, in which case penalties and the chance to get caught are factored in as cost position.</p></div></blockquote><p>
That's exactly why revocation of the corporate charter should be the primary legal remedy for any provably <i>intentional</i> law-breaking on the part of any corporation.  Upon revocation of the corporate charter, let all property of the corporation be sold at public auction and the proceeds divided among its shareholders.  This would be a proper counterbalance to the "liability shield" nature of a corporation.  Let the fines be reserved for unintentional negligence.
<br> <br>
There are many such problems that we could put to rest, if only we really wanted to do it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or criminal acts , in which case penalties and the chance to get caught are factored in as cost position .
That 's exactly why revocation of the corporate charter should be the primary legal remedy for any provably intentional law-breaking on the part of any corporation .
Upon revocation of the corporate charter , let all property of the corporation be sold at public auction and the proceeds divided among its shareholders .
This would be a proper counterbalance to the " liability shield " nature of a corporation .
Let the fines be reserved for unintentional negligence .
There are many such problems that we could put to rest , if only we really wanted to do it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or criminal acts, in which case penalties and the chance to get caught are factored in as cost position.
That's exactly why revocation of the corporate charter should be the primary legal remedy for any provably intentional law-breaking on the part of any corporation.
Upon revocation of the corporate charter, let all property of the corporation be sold at public auction and the proceeds divided among its shareholders.
This would be a proper counterbalance to the "liability shield" nature of a corporation.
Let the fines be reserved for unintentional negligence.
There are many such problems that we could put to rest, if only we really wanted to do it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494565</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494161</id>
	<title>I'ts only illegal in the US</title>
	<author>brunes69</author>
	<datestamp>1246112580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you think PGP and other steg. tools are not available everywhere in the world you have rocks in your head. The US does not have a monopoly on smart mathematicians or encryption methods.</p><p>The only effect of the US bans on cryptography export is to handcuff the US software industry, and make some congress-critters feel nice.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you think PGP and other steg .
tools are not available everywhere in the world you have rocks in your head .
The US does not have a monopoly on smart mathematicians or encryption methods.The only effect of the US bans on cryptography export is to handcuff the US software industry , and make some congress-critters feel nice .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you think PGP and other steg.
tools are not available everywhere in the world you have rocks in your head.
The US does not have a monopoly on smart mathematicians or encryption methods.The only effect of the US bans on cryptography export is to handcuff the US software industry, and make some congress-critters feel nice.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494017</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493991</id>
	<title>Yet another way to look at it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246110660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ARPA's Internet project grows out of control, works against sister agency's insurrection attempt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ARPA 's Internet project grows out of control , works against sister agency 's insurrection attempt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ARPA's Internet project grows out of control, works against sister agency's insurrection attempt.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493873</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495583</id>
	<title>How soon the geek forgets</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1246124580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Is it really that difficult for foreign embassies to create huge unfiltered Wi-fi spots that cover the city?</i> </p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran\_hostage\_crisis" title="wikipedia.org">Iran Hostage Crisis</a> [wikipedia.org] </p><p>Technicians willing to maintain a repeater outside the safety of the embassy compound, please raise your hands.</p><p> We offer a nice recruitment bonus, excellent death benefits, a bullet proof vest, an armored vehicle with a hair-triggered paramilitary escort.</p><p>If you are caught or killed the Secretary will, as always, disavow any knowledge of your actions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it really that difficult for foreign embassies to create huge unfiltered Wi-fi spots that cover the city ?
Iran Hostage Crisis [ wikipedia.org ] Technicians willing to maintain a repeater outside the safety of the embassy compound , please raise your hands .
We offer a nice recruitment bonus , excellent death benefits , a bullet proof vest , an armored vehicle with a hair-triggered paramilitary escort.If you are caught or killed the Secretary will , as always , disavow any knowledge of your actions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it really that difficult for foreign embassies to create huge unfiltered Wi-fi spots that cover the city?
Iran Hostage Crisis [wikipedia.org] Technicians willing to maintain a repeater outside the safety of the embassy compound, please raise your hands.
We offer a nice recruitment bonus, excellent death benefits, a bullet proof vest, an armored vehicle with a hair-triggered paramilitary escort.If you are caught or killed the Secretary will, as always, disavow any knowledge of your actions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495845</id>
	<title>What about higher end connections?</title>
	<author>kheldan</author>
	<datestamp>1246127040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Is their "choke point" technology able to break through SSH and VPN encrypted connections too? Or are they just blocking those connection completely?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is their " choke point " technology able to break through SSH and VPN encrypted connections too ?
Or are they just blocking those connection completely ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is their "choke point" technology able to break through SSH and VPN encrypted connections too?
Or are they just blocking those connection completely?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493913</id>
	<title>It's not yet the time for a new revolution in Iran</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246109580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This just proofs it, Iran is not ready for a big change yet.

If Iran wants a proper change, these protests won't just do it alone. What they need is more time. Until the majority of the people are actually believing in change, it won't happen. What they are against is a goverment having a tight grip on all the infrastructure, police and military forces. Until these goverment bodies have openminded and educated people working as "spies", the people of Iran has no change to have a fight they can win.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This just proofs it , Iran is not ready for a big change yet .
If Iran wants a proper change , these protests wo n't just do it alone .
What they need is more time .
Until the majority of the people are actually believing in change , it wo n't happen .
What they are against is a goverment having a tight grip on all the infrastructure , police and military forces .
Until these goverment bodies have openminded and educated people working as " spies " , the people of Iran has no change to have a fight they can win .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This just proofs it, Iran is not ready for a big change yet.
If Iran wants a proper change, these protests won't just do it alone.
What they need is more time.
Until the majority of the people are actually believing in change, it won't happen.
What they are against is a goverment having a tight grip on all the infrastructure, police and military forces.
Until these goverment bodies have openminded and educated people working as "spies", the people of Iran has no change to have a fight they can win.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495595</id>
	<title>Re:another way to look at it</title>
	<author>interval1066</author>
	<datestamp>1246124700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look, the bottom line is this: a gun can help the oppressors and the oppressed alike. The gun is really an equalizer. Same thing the internet. And as for the Twitter argument I saw below; I wouldn't think of Twitter as a toy in the oppression game. Its more like another tool in the fight. Twitter has been amazingly effective in doing what's its been designed to do for the protesters.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look , the bottom line is this : a gun can help the oppressors and the oppressed alike .
The gun is really an equalizer .
Same thing the internet .
And as for the Twitter argument I saw below ; I would n't think of Twitter as a toy in the oppression game .
Its more like another tool in the fight .
Twitter has been amazingly effective in doing what 's its been designed to do for the protesters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look, the bottom line is this: a gun can help the oppressors and the oppressed alike.
The gun is really an equalizer.
Same thing the internet.
And as for the Twitter argument I saw below; I wouldn't think of Twitter as a toy in the oppression game.
Its more like another tool in the fight.
Twitter has been amazingly effective in doing what's its been designed to do for the protesters.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493873</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494173</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption VS Deep Packet Inspection</title>
	<author>Calydor</author>
	<datestamp>1246112700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That might work here in our peaceful countries, where you can argue that most encrypted traffic is (probably) legal.</p><p>In Iran, they'd simply set the filter to auto-block anything that looks encrypted, and log originating IP. Encryption would be self-incrimination in those circumstances.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That might work here in our peaceful countries , where you can argue that most encrypted traffic is ( probably ) legal.In Iran , they 'd simply set the filter to auto-block anything that looks encrypted , and log originating IP .
Encryption would be self-incrimination in those circumstances .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That might work here in our peaceful countries, where you can argue that most encrypted traffic is (probably) legal.In Iran, they'd simply set the filter to auto-block anything that looks encrypted, and log originating IP.
Encryption would be self-incrimination in those circumstances.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493931</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493981</id>
	<title>First in the USA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246110540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>then in the UK, then in Iran - so it goes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>then in the UK , then in Iran - so it goes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>then in the UK, then in Iran - so it goes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493927</id>
	<title>Steganography</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246109820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This may be true, but if encryption and steganography were the norm, the story would be different.

</p><p>What if everyone used, say Freenet for publishing instead of http? The government would have much more trouble finding or censoring them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This may be true , but if encryption and steganography were the norm , the story would be different .
What if everyone used , say Freenet for publishing instead of http ?
The government would have much more trouble finding or censoring them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This may be true, but if encryption and steganography were the norm, the story would be different.
What if everyone used, say Freenet for publishing instead of http?
The government would have much more trouble finding or censoring them.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495185</id>
	<title>Consumer power</title>
	<author>el\_jake</author>
	<datestamp>1246121220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I bought my last Nokia . I am never going to use that brand anymore.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I bought my last Nokia .
I am never going to use that brand anymore .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bought my last Nokia .
I am never going to use that brand anymore.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496911</id>
	<title>Gee.  With so MANY countries in the world. . .</title>
	<author>Fantastic Lad</author>
	<datestamp>1246135200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Why is it that Iran is in the news ALL the time?  --And always with a negative spin?</p><p>Hmmmmmmmm?</p><p>Are we going to fall for this again?</p><p>How <b>stupid</b> are we?</p><p>I'm betting that the answer is: "<b>Stupid</b> Enough."</p><p>So get your flak jackets on; we're going to war!  (--And we've not even finished fighting the first. . , ugh!  --I can't even <i>remember</i> how many idiotic and morally bankrupt engagements we're still neck-deep in.)</p><p>So ask yourself. . .  How <b>stupid</b> are you feeling today?</p><p>-FL</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why is it that Iran is in the news ALL the time ?
--And always with a negative spin ? Hmmmmmmmm ? Are we going to fall for this again ? How stupid are we ? I 'm betting that the answer is : " Stupid Enough .
" So get your flak jackets on ; we 're going to war !
( --And we 've not even finished fighting the first .
. , ugh !
--I ca n't even remember how many idiotic and morally bankrupt engagements we 're still neck-deep in .
) So ask yourself .
. .
How stupid are you feeling today ? -FL</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why is it that Iran is in the news ALL the time?
--And always with a negative spin?Hmmmmmmmm?Are we going to fall for this again?How stupid are we?I'm betting that the answer is: "Stupid Enough.
"So get your flak jackets on; we're going to war!
(--And we've not even finished fighting the first.
. , ugh!
--I can't even remember how many idiotic and morally bankrupt engagements we're still neck-deep in.
)So ask yourself.
. .
How stupid are you feeling today?-FL</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495315</id>
	<title>Re:You can help.</title>
	<author>discogravy</author>
	<datestamp>1246122420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>unless the proxy you setup is inside the iranian infrastructure (ie, on the iran side of the choke-point), it's going to be relatively worthless, since the chokepoint will show the traffic from iran going to your proxy. realistically you've got few options:
<br>- install on the inside, so when the chokepoint logs say "it's $PROXY\_IP doing it", your lack of logs protects those that connected to your proxy
<br>- route around the chokepoint, for which you'll need access to infrastructure that will be difficult to secure (assuming iran's network security dudes aren't total fucking morons).
<br>- links that do not rely on iranian infrastructure (an encrypted link to a satellite for e.g.)
<br>
<br>A squid or tor proxy on the outside's going to exactly nothing to protect anyone in Iran -- their packets still have to leave the country to get to your proxy!</htmltext>
<tokenext>unless the proxy you setup is inside the iranian infrastructure ( ie , on the iran side of the choke-point ) , it 's going to be relatively worthless , since the chokepoint will show the traffic from iran going to your proxy .
realistically you 've got few options : - install on the inside , so when the chokepoint logs say " it 's $ PROXY \ _IP doing it " , your lack of logs protects those that connected to your proxy - route around the chokepoint , for which you 'll need access to infrastructure that will be difficult to secure ( assuming iran 's network security dudes are n't total fucking morons ) .
- links that do not rely on iranian infrastructure ( an encrypted link to a satellite for e.g .
) A squid or tor proxy on the outside 's going to exactly nothing to protect anyone in Iran -- their packets still have to leave the country to get to your proxy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>unless the proxy you setup is inside the iranian infrastructure (ie, on the iran side of the choke-point), it's going to be relatively worthless, since the chokepoint will show the traffic from iran going to your proxy.
realistically you've got few options:
- install on the inside, so when the chokepoint logs say "it's $PROXY\_IP doing it", your lack of logs protects those that connected to your proxy
- route around the chokepoint, for which you'll need access to infrastructure that will be difficult to secure (assuming iran's network security dudes aren't total fucking morons).
- links that do not rely on iranian infrastructure (an encrypted link to a satellite for e.g.
)

A squid or tor proxy on the outside's going to exactly nothing to protect anyone in Iran -- their packets still have to leave the country to get to your proxy!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493917</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495671</id>
	<title>Re:"only a few...pictures and videos getting throu</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246125300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Might not help this revolution, perhaps the next one."</p><p>This was never a revolution. Largely, the protesters were angry about what seems to many an unfair election. Elections in the past have been deemed fair by the Iranian people and by outside monitors. They are not trying to plow the government under, they are not looking for a new form of government; they just wanted the system they have to behave itself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Might not help this revolution , perhaps the next one .
" This was never a revolution .
Largely , the protesters were angry about what seems to many an unfair election .
Elections in the past have been deemed fair by the Iranian people and by outside monitors .
They are not trying to plow the government under , they are not looking for a new form of government ; they just wanted the system they have to behave itself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Might not help this revolution, perhaps the next one.
"This was never a revolution.
Largely, the protesters were angry about what seems to many an unfair election.
Elections in the past have been deemed fair by the Iranian people and by outside monitors.
They are not trying to plow the government under, they are not looking for a new form of government; they just wanted the system they have to behave itself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493943</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494485</id>
	<title>Hack Iran</title>
	<author>catmistake</author>
	<datestamp>1246115400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>These 'bottlenecks' are in the DMZ, so why not just infiltrate them... and open them wide??? Could Iran's cybersecurity be all that great?</htmltext>
<tokenext>These 'bottlenecks ' are in the DMZ , so why not just infiltrate them... and open them wide ? ? ?
Could Iran 's cybersecurity be all that great ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>These 'bottlenecks' are in the DMZ, so why not just infiltrate them... and open them wide???
Could Iran's cybersecurity be all that great?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494353</id>
	<title>Re:another way to look at it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246114320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fucking piece of shit goddamn Europeans.  You make me sick with your pompous posturing about how enlightened and free you supposedly are.  You are all hypocritical liars.  A smokescreen to hide the real truth that you all want nothing more than totalitarianism and subjugation of every person on the face of the earth.  Fucking Siemens and Nokia have blood on their hands but you stupid Euro's will defend and make pathetic excuses for them to your dying breath.</p><p>

I hope you all fucking die.  I hope Iran goes nuclear and attacks Israel and Israel starts full scale war and wipes Europe and the middle east off the fucking map.  Fuck you all.  Die.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fucking piece of shit goddamn Europeans .
You make me sick with your pompous posturing about how enlightened and free you supposedly are .
You are all hypocritical liars .
A smokescreen to hide the real truth that you all want nothing more than totalitarianism and subjugation of every person on the face of the earth .
Fucking Siemens and Nokia have blood on their hands but you stupid Euro 's will defend and make pathetic excuses for them to your dying breath .
I hope you all fucking die .
I hope Iran goes nuclear and attacks Israel and Israel starts full scale war and wipes Europe and the middle east off the fucking map .
Fuck you all .
Die .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fucking piece of shit goddamn Europeans.
You make me sick with your pompous posturing about how enlightened and free you supposedly are.
You are all hypocritical liars.
A smokescreen to hide the real truth that you all want nothing more than totalitarianism and subjugation of every person on the face of the earth.
Fucking Siemens and Nokia have blood on their hands but you stupid Euro's will defend and make pathetic excuses for them to your dying breath.
I hope you all fucking die.
I hope Iran goes nuclear and attacks Israel and Israel starts full scale war and wipes Europe and the middle east off the fucking map.
Fuck you all.
Die.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493873</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28498141</id>
	<title>Re:Can Iranian Regime MITM all of Iran?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246100100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's not kid ourselves<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>Sure, other goverments "[route] all digital traffic in the country through a single choke point, using the capabilities of deep packet inspection" and <a href="http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/multimedia/2006/04/70619" title="wired.com" rel="nofollow">so do we</a> [wired.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's not kid ourselves ...Sure , other goverments " [ route ] all digital traffic in the country through a single choke point , using the capabilities of deep packet inspection " and so do we [ wired.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's not kid ourselves ...Sure, other goverments "[route] all digital traffic in the country through a single choke point, using the capabilities of deep packet inspection" and so do we [wired.com].</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494545</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495029</id>
	<title>Re:another way to look at it</title>
	<author>mi</author>
	<datestamp>1246120200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>\_corporations\_ help silence activists in Iran</p></div></blockquote><p>

Whereas \_cooperatives\_ and \_communes\_ are all working hard to help them...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>\ _corporations \ _ help silence activists in Iran Whereas \ _cooperatives \ _ and \ _communes \ _ are all working hard to help them.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>\_corporations\_ help silence activists in Iran

Whereas \_cooperatives\_ and \_communes\_ are all working hard to help them...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493873</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494107</id>
	<title>There is more to it</title>
	<author>betterunixthanunix</author>
	<datestamp>1246111980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>For now, AES remains impossible to directly crack.  "Directly" being the operative word -- cryptography systems involving AES can be cracked through various other means.  You start sending encrypted mail, and the first thing I will do is see if I can get a keystroke logger on your computer, perhaps a hardware unit that I install in your keyboard.  If I cannot do that, I'll see if I can perform a side channel attack -- perhaps I can install a microphone near your computer to measure the vibrations caused by power fluctuations, or maybe I can find a way to hide an antenna and measure the EM emissions.<br> <br>

Don't get me wrong, cryptography would help the Iranians a lot, but it is not a silver bullet.  High profile targets would need to be wary of side channel attacks and other attempts to break their crypto, but even low level targets would be risking their lives.  The very use of cryptography could be enough to get an Iranian thrown in prison, especially if it becomes known that cryptography is being used to evade government filters to send news of the protests to foreigners.</htmltext>
<tokenext>For now , AES remains impossible to directly crack .
" Directly " being the operative word -- cryptography systems involving AES can be cracked through various other means .
You start sending encrypted mail , and the first thing I will do is see if I can get a keystroke logger on your computer , perhaps a hardware unit that I install in your keyboard .
If I can not do that , I 'll see if I can perform a side channel attack -- perhaps I can install a microphone near your computer to measure the vibrations caused by power fluctuations , or maybe I can find a way to hide an antenna and measure the EM emissions .
Do n't get me wrong , cryptography would help the Iranians a lot , but it is not a silver bullet .
High profile targets would need to be wary of side channel attacks and other attempts to break their crypto , but even low level targets would be risking their lives .
The very use of cryptography could be enough to get an Iranian thrown in prison , especially if it becomes known that cryptography is being used to evade government filters to send news of the protests to foreigners .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For now, AES remains impossible to directly crack.
"Directly" being the operative word -- cryptography systems involving AES can be cracked through various other means.
You start sending encrypted mail, and the first thing I will do is see if I can get a keystroke logger on your computer, perhaps a hardware unit that I install in your keyboard.
If I cannot do that, I'll see if I can perform a side channel attack -- perhaps I can install a microphone near your computer to measure the vibrations caused by power fluctuations, or maybe I can find a way to hide an antenna and measure the EM emissions.
Don't get me wrong, cryptography would help the Iranians a lot, but it is not a silver bullet.
High profile targets would need to be wary of side channel attacks and other attempts to break their crypto, but even low level targets would be risking their lives.
The very use of cryptography could be enough to get an Iranian thrown in prison, especially if it becomes known that cryptography is being used to evade government filters to send news of the protests to foreigners.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493931</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494203</id>
	<title>Re:Of course.</title>
	<author>kdemetter</author>
	<datestamp>1246113060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Once DPI exists it is perfectly possible to just ban encrypted traffic to anything but a white list of banking sites etc, and then one has created a system where every letter can be read.</p> </div><p>And exactly how are you going to ban 'encrypted traffic' . There is no way to define what encrypt traffic looks like , that's one off the advantages of encryption.<br>The test 'In Russia , mails read the government' , could be a slashdot meme , but it could also mean something entirely different , as you could replace the words with completely different data.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Once DPI exists it is perfectly possible to just ban encrypted traffic to anything but a white list of banking sites etc , and then one has created a system where every letter can be read .
And exactly how are you going to ban 'encrypted traffic ' .
There is no way to define what encrypt traffic looks like , that 's one off the advantages of encryption.The test 'In Russia , mails read the government ' , could be a slashdot meme , but it could also mean something entirely different , as you could replace the words with completely different data .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Once DPI exists it is perfectly possible to just ban encrypted traffic to anything but a white list of banking sites etc, and then one has created a system where every letter can be read.
And exactly how are you going to ban 'encrypted traffic' .
There is no way to define what encrypt traffic looks like , that's one off the advantages of encryption.The test 'In Russia , mails read the government' , could be a slashdot meme , but it could also mean something entirely different , as you could replace the words with completely different data.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493933</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496541</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption VS Deep Packet Inspection</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246133040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Then they would spend hours or days decrypting it , only to see a message , which they think might be a sort of encryption as well.<br>They might try to construct a real message from it.</i></p><p><i>Could be fun</i></p><p>Probably won't be fun. This is how encryption works in Iran:</p><p><a href="http://xkcd.com/538/" title="xkcd.com" rel="nofollow">http://xkcd.com/538/</a> [xkcd.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Then they would spend hours or days decrypting it , only to see a message , which they think might be a sort of encryption as well.They might try to construct a real message from it.Could be funProbably wo n't be fun .
This is how encryption works in Iran : http : //xkcd.com/538/ [ xkcd.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Then they would spend hours or days decrypting it , only to see a message , which they think might be a sort of encryption as well.They might try to construct a real message from it.Could be funProbably won't be fun.
This is how encryption works in Iran:http://xkcd.com/538/ [xkcd.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495305</id>
	<title>Re:Pile'o'poop article</title>
	<author>Cross-Threaded</author>
	<datestamp>1246122240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well placed operatives (e.g. Backhoe Operators), would disagree, I think.</p><p>That most of us here are technology aficionados tends to blind us to reality sometimes.</p><p>It's too easy to just cut the cable at convergence points, and kill the communication.</p><p>Sometimes there is no substitute for live, in-person, communication.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well placed operatives ( e.g .
Backhoe Operators ) , would disagree , I think.That most of us here are technology aficionados tends to blind us to reality sometimes.It 's too easy to just cut the cable at convergence points , and kill the communication.Sometimes there is no substitute for live , in-person , communication .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well placed operatives (e.g.
Backhoe Operators), would disagree, I think.That most of us here are technology aficionados tends to blind us to reality sometimes.It's too easy to just cut the cable at convergence points, and kill the communication.Sometimes there is no substitute for live, in-person, communication.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493937</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496273</id>
	<title>It will be interesting ...</title>
	<author>Alain Williams</author>
	<datestamp>1246131240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>to see our own governments &amp; leaders criticising the Iranian government over this -- just as they are strengthening the very same systems that they have put in place to monitor us.
Of course our governments say that they have put these systems in for the best of reasons: stop terrorists; but how long before we are told that people who disagree with the government are against us and thus terrorists ?<p>
Double-think is alive and well in the UK and USA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>to see our own governments &amp; leaders criticising the Iranian government over this -- just as they are strengthening the very same systems that they have put in place to monitor us .
Of course our governments say that they have put these systems in for the best of reasons : stop terrorists ; but how long before we are told that people who disagree with the government are against us and thus terrorists ?
Double-think is alive and well in the UK and USA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>to see our own governments &amp; leaders criticising the Iranian government over this -- just as they are strengthening the very same systems that they have put in place to monitor us.
Of course our governments say that they have put these systems in for the best of reasons: stop terrorists; but how long before we are told that people who disagree with the government are against us and thus terrorists ?
Double-think is alive and well in the UK and USA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494545</id>
	<title>Can Iranian Regime MITM all of Iran?</title>
	<author>StCredZero</author>
	<datestamp>1246115880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Since they have a single choke-point, can the Iranian regime do a Man In The Middle attack on the entire country?  They'd have to do something about the certificates that get pre-installed on new computers.  (China's powerful enough for that, but not Iran.)  I'm not sure they can manage this.  However, they can insure that the real certs won't work, and could then distribute "patches" for that.  They could also cook up their own "cache" for 3rd party browsers like Firefox and Opera with the bogus certs.</p><p>This would let them snoop on all public-key based cryptosystems, like SSL.  However, they would need enough processing power to quickly do all of the key negotiation for the entire country in real-time.  (I suspect that China can afford resources like that for this purpose, but not Iran.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Since they have a single choke-point , can the Iranian regime do a Man In The Middle attack on the entire country ?
They 'd have to do something about the certificates that get pre-installed on new computers .
( China 's powerful enough for that , but not Iran .
) I 'm not sure they can manage this .
However , they can insure that the real certs wo n't work , and could then distribute " patches " for that .
They could also cook up their own " cache " for 3rd party browsers like Firefox and Opera with the bogus certs.This would let them snoop on all public-key based cryptosystems , like SSL .
However , they would need enough processing power to quickly do all of the key negotiation for the entire country in real-time .
( I suspect that China can afford resources like that for this purpose , but not Iran .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Since they have a single choke-point, can the Iranian regime do a Man In The Middle attack on the entire country?
They'd have to do something about the certificates that get pre-installed on new computers.
(China's powerful enough for that, but not Iran.
)  I'm not sure they can manage this.
However, they can insure that the real certs won't work, and could then distribute "patches" for that.
They could also cook up their own "cache" for 3rd party browsers like Firefox and Opera with the bogus certs.This would let them snoop on all public-key based cryptosystems, like SSL.
However, they would need enough processing power to quickly do all of the key negotiation for the entire country in real-time.
(I suspect that China can afford resources like that for this purpose, but not Iran.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493917</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495067</id>
	<title>Re:The internet never forgets</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246120380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>what makes you think that they have not already considered the consequences of their internet postings?</p><p>anyone trying to overthrow a government and not expecting to get burned if it doesn't happen has a rather worrying detachment from reality - regardless of the medium of communication they choose to use.</p><p>going through all of the comments here (and with the original post, too) what is happening in Iran is merely an abstract idea to everyone here - no-one here has ever had to really fight for anything, and we just sit here and post crap about it</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>what makes you think that they have not already considered the consequences of their internet postings ? anyone trying to overthrow a government and not expecting to get burned if it does n't happen has a rather worrying detachment from reality - regardless of the medium of communication they choose to use.going through all of the comments here ( and with the original post , too ) what is happening in Iran is merely an abstract idea to everyone here - no-one here has ever had to really fight for anything , and we just sit here and post crap about it</tokentext>
<sentencetext>what makes you think that they have not already considered the consequences of their internet postings?anyone trying to overthrow a government and not expecting to get burned if it doesn't happen has a rather worrying detachment from reality - regardless of the medium of communication they choose to use.going through all of the comments here (and with the original post, too) what is happening in Iran is merely an abstract idea to everyone here - no-one here has ever had to really fight for anything, and we just sit here and post crap about it</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494091</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494559</id>
	<title>Embassy Wi-fi?</title>
	<author>sparkydevil</author>
	<datestamp>1246116000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is it really that difficult for foreign embassies to create huge unfiltered Wi-fi spots that cover the city?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it really that difficult for foreign embassies to create huge unfiltered Wi-fi spots that cover the city ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it really that difficult for foreign embassies to create huge unfiltered Wi-fi spots that cover the city?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496077</id>
	<title>Re:You can help.</title>
	<author>CarpetShark</author>
	<datestamp>1246129260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>This is a real, live underground network, being run by Eric Raymond and some other folks who are remaining anonymous.</p></div></blockquote><p>Raymond should have remained anonymous too.  I would have liked it more if his name wasn't associated with it.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is a real , live underground network , being run by Eric Raymond and some other folks who are remaining anonymous.Raymond should have remained anonymous too .
I would have liked it more if his name was n't associated with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is a real, live underground network, being run by Eric Raymond and some other folks who are remaining anonymous.Raymond should have remained anonymous too.
I would have liked it more if his name wasn't associated with it.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493917</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494937</id>
	<title>Re:Ins't this obvious?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246119660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You're keeping the socks on though because they're comfy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're keeping the socks on though because they 're comfy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're keeping the socks on though because they're comfy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493989</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494017</id>
	<title>US citizens' have their hands tied</title>
	<author>betterunixthanunix</author>
	<datestamp>1246111020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>It remains illegal to export or reexport strong cryptography to Iran.  Despite Phil Zimmerman's testimony before Congress, and despite his presentation of letters from people around the world who used PGP to save lives, there are still restrictions on who we may export this sort of software to.  I have no doubt that the protestors in Iran would benefit immensely if they were using PGP or some similarly strong crypto, but here in the US, you could be imprisoned for sending it to them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It remains illegal to export or reexport strong cryptography to Iran .
Despite Phil Zimmerman 's testimony before Congress , and despite his presentation of letters from people around the world who used PGP to save lives , there are still restrictions on who we may export this sort of software to .
I have no doubt that the protestors in Iran would benefit immensely if they were using PGP or some similarly strong crypto , but here in the US , you could be imprisoned for sending it to them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It remains illegal to export or reexport strong cryptography to Iran.
Despite Phil Zimmerman's testimony before Congress, and despite his presentation of letters from people around the world who used PGP to save lives, there are still restrictions on who we may export this sort of software to.
I have no doubt that the protestors in Iran would benefit immensely if they were using PGP or some similarly strong crypto, but here in the US, you could be imprisoned for sending it to them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493927</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493933</id>
	<title>Of course.</title>
	<author>James\_Duncan8181</author>
	<datestamp>1246109820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The problem with most net communication is that it is built with the assumption that the governments that it passes through are fundamentally friendly to the citizenry. Once DPI exists it is perfectly possible to just ban encrypted traffic to anything but a white list of banking sites etc, and then one has created a system where every letter can be read. It can be the perfect police state, and probably will be.</p><p>Stenography is probably the only answer to this, but the traffic patterns are still recorded so once the government concerned becomes aware that the receiver is hostile to them they can follow that social network back. It's not just Google who can work out probable friends of yours automatically. The other issue is that once you introduce higher technical barriers, the ability of the public to use the communication falls rapidly. Joe Protester probably can't set up stenography in the first place; most of the Iranian videos were emailed or went up via Youtube.</p><p>This is leaving aside how locked down Palladium computers could affect this issues in the future. The West of the internet is no longer very wild.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem with most net communication is that it is built with the assumption that the governments that it passes through are fundamentally friendly to the citizenry .
Once DPI exists it is perfectly possible to just ban encrypted traffic to anything but a white list of banking sites etc , and then one has created a system where every letter can be read .
It can be the perfect police state , and probably will be.Stenography is probably the only answer to this , but the traffic patterns are still recorded so once the government concerned becomes aware that the receiver is hostile to them they can follow that social network back .
It 's not just Google who can work out probable friends of yours automatically .
The other issue is that once you introduce higher technical barriers , the ability of the public to use the communication falls rapidly .
Joe Protester probably ca n't set up stenography in the first place ; most of the Iranian videos were emailed or went up via Youtube.This is leaving aside how locked down Palladium computers could affect this issues in the future .
The West of the internet is no longer very wild .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem with most net communication is that it is built with the assumption that the governments that it passes through are fundamentally friendly to the citizenry.
Once DPI exists it is perfectly possible to just ban encrypted traffic to anything but a white list of banking sites etc, and then one has created a system where every letter can be read.
It can be the perfect police state, and probably will be.Stenography is probably the only answer to this, but the traffic patterns are still recorded so once the government concerned becomes aware that the receiver is hostile to them they can follow that social network back.
It's not just Google who can work out probable friends of yours automatically.
The other issue is that once you introduce higher technical barriers, the ability of the public to use the communication falls rapidly.
Joe Protester probably can't set up stenography in the first place; most of the Iranian videos were emailed or went up via Youtube.This is leaving aside how locked down Palladium computers could affect this issues in the future.
The West of the internet is no longer very wild.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494129</id>
	<title>Re:You can help.</title>
	<author>morgan\_greywolf</author>
	<datestamp>1246112160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And the United States government is going to extradite U.S. citizens aiding dissidents to Iran because<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... we have good diplomatic relations with Iran?  *blink*</p><p>C'mon.  Same goes for the U.K. and several other European nations.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And the United States government is going to extradite U.S. citizens aiding dissidents to Iran because .... we have good diplomatic relations with Iran ?
* blink * C'mon. Same goes for the U.K. and several other European nations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the United States government is going to extradite U.S. citizens aiding dissidents to Iran because .... we have good diplomatic relations with Iran?
*blink*C'mon.  Same goes for the U.K. and several other European nations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493917</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495531</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption VS Deep Packet Inspection</title>
	<author>afxgrin</author>
	<datestamp>1246124220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yo dawg, we heard you like highly encrypted email, so we put a highly encrypted email in your highly encrypted email.</p><p>heh mix cipher types for added fun.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yo dawg , we heard you like highly encrypted email , so we put a highly encrypted email in your highly encrypted email.heh mix cipher types for added fun .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yo dawg, we heard you like highly encrypted email, so we put a highly encrypted email in your highly encrypted email.heh mix cipher types for added fun.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28498527</id>
	<title>Re:Can Iranian Regime MITM all of Iran?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246103220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Let's not kid ourselves<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br> <br>

Sure, other governments "[route] all digital traffic in the country through a single choke point, using the capabilities of deep packet inspection" and <a href="http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2006/04/6585.ars" title="arstechnica.com">so do we, in the US</a> [arstechnica.com].  I couldn't think of a better place to put fiber splicers than the "<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/13/us/nationalspecial3/13nsa.html?pagewanted=print" title="nytimes.com">AT&amp;T office in San Francisco</a> [nytimes.com]."  Facebook, and of course other social networking and technology companies, must be a gold mine for them.  All they need to do is connect the social networking dots, as they currently do with <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa\_x.htm" title="usatoday.com">American's phone calls</a> [usatoday.com] -- there's no concern for domestic wiretapping laws involved --  it's simply call delivery data for them, and a bit of connecting the social network dots.  Hence the reason Verizon Wireless sent out a snail-mail privacy notice to their customers regarding their use of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA\_call\_database" title="wikipedia.org">call delivery records</a> [wikipedia.org] in light of the possible <a href="http://news.cnet.com/2100-1036\_3-6136841.html" title="cnet.com">broad-surveillance lawsuits</a> [cnet.com], a few years ago.  One doesn't need the full conversation if it's possible to ascertain and forward onto other agencies the usual suspects.  Separately, Larry Wall, the creator of Perl, once said that he doesn't "tell people the NSA uses Perl. [He merely tells] people the NSA thinks everyone uses Perl. They should know, after all."<br> <br>

Those are smart scientists and engineers over there, to be sure.  I'd love to work for them, too.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's not kid ourselves .. . Sure , other governments " [ route ] all digital traffic in the country through a single choke point , using the capabilities of deep packet inspection " and so do we , in the US [ arstechnica.com ] .
I could n't think of a better place to put fiber splicers than the " AT&amp;T office in San Francisco [ nytimes.com ] .
" Facebook , and of course other social networking and technology companies , must be a gold mine for them .
All they need to do is connect the social networking dots , as they currently do with American 's phone calls [ usatoday.com ] -- there 's no concern for domestic wiretapping laws involved -- it 's simply call delivery data for them , and a bit of connecting the social network dots .
Hence the reason Verizon Wireless sent out a snail-mail privacy notice to their customers regarding their use of call delivery records [ wikipedia.org ] in light of the possible broad-surveillance lawsuits [ cnet.com ] , a few years ago .
One does n't need the full conversation if it 's possible to ascertain and forward onto other agencies the usual suspects .
Separately , Larry Wall , the creator of Perl , once said that he does n't " tell people the NSA uses Perl .
[ He merely tells ] people the NSA thinks everyone uses Perl .
They should know , after all .
" Those are smart scientists and engineers over there , to be sure .
I 'd love to work for them , too .
: - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's not kid ourselves ... 

Sure, other governments "[route] all digital traffic in the country through a single choke point, using the capabilities of deep packet inspection" and so do we, in the US [arstechnica.com].
I couldn't think of a better place to put fiber splicers than the "AT&amp;T office in San Francisco [nytimes.com].
"  Facebook, and of course other social networking and technology companies, must be a gold mine for them.
All they need to do is connect the social networking dots, as they currently do with American's phone calls [usatoday.com] -- there's no concern for domestic wiretapping laws involved --  it's simply call delivery data for them, and a bit of connecting the social network dots.
Hence the reason Verizon Wireless sent out a snail-mail privacy notice to their customers regarding their use of call delivery records [wikipedia.org] in light of the possible broad-surveillance lawsuits [cnet.com], a few years ago.
One doesn't need the full conversation if it's possible to ascertain and forward onto other agencies the usual suspects.
Separately, Larry Wall, the creator of Perl, once said that he doesn't "tell people the NSA uses Perl.
[He merely tells] people the NSA thinks everyone uses Perl.
They should know, after all.
" 

Those are smart scientists and engineers over there, to be sure.
I'd love to work for them, too.
:-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494545</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28521991</id>
	<title>Re:US citizens' have their hands tied</title>
	<author>sowth</author>
	<datestamp>1246280160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Who said anything about sending Freenet to Iran? The summary just talked about it as a test case, at least how I read it. I was talking about using it in the US. Even if you don't think things are oppressive now[1], don't you believe it would be wise to have a free speech system in place for when things do get bad?

[1] I don't want to talk about stupid relativism. I know it is oppressive in North Korea and other places. It doesn't mean there are not problems here, nor can you account for every single local jurisdiction.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who said anything about sending Freenet to Iran ?
The summary just talked about it as a test case , at least how I read it .
I was talking about using it in the US .
Even if you do n't think things are oppressive now [ 1 ] , do n't you believe it would be wise to have a free speech system in place for when things do get bad ?
[ 1 ] I do n't want to talk about stupid relativism .
I know it is oppressive in North Korea and other places .
It does n't mean there are not problems here , nor can you account for every single local jurisdiction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who said anything about sending Freenet to Iran?
The summary just talked about it as a test case, at least how I read it.
I was talking about using it in the US.
Even if you don't think things are oppressive now[1], don't you believe it would be wise to have a free speech system in place for when things do get bad?
[1] I don't want to talk about stupid relativism.
I know it is oppressive in North Korea and other places.
It doesn't mean there are not problems here, nor can you account for every single local jurisdiction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494017</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494511</id>
	<title>The fault, dear slashdot,</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246115520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>lies not in our technology, but in ourselves.</p><p>If everyone sits around passively waiting for technology to bring them a better world, they will be disappointed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>lies not in our technology , but in ourselves.If everyone sits around passively waiting for technology to bring them a better world , they will be disappointed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>lies not in our technology, but in ourselves.If everyone sits around passively waiting for technology to bring them a better world, they will be disappointed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493989</id>
	<title>Ins't this obvious?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246110660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>On with the tinfoil hats...and the cynical socks...
<br> <br>
The power of technology from a government's perspective is to have the subjects of your suspicion(citizenry) freely and enthusiastically enter all their beliefs( micro/macro blogging), the topology of their personal relations(social networking sites), and  their personal communications(gmail)  into the databases of private corporations for the easy mining of the data by the keepers of all the keys(NSA, MI5, and others). Then is is a simple matter to assemble an n-dimentional database of relationships into a large net. Then they need only to pull a single knot(a person) of this net and see all others strings and knots which are pulled also. With this tool the government can intercept and neutralize any waxing movement, meme,  or influential person.
<br> <br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...off with the tinfoil hat and back to my coffee.</htmltext>
<tokenext>On with the tinfoil hats...and the cynical socks.. . The power of technology from a government 's perspective is to have the subjects of your suspicion ( citizenry ) freely and enthusiastically enter all their beliefs ( micro/macro blogging ) , the topology of their personal relations ( social networking sites ) , and their personal communications ( gmail ) into the databases of private corporations for the easy mining of the data by the keepers of all the keys ( NSA , MI5 , and others ) .
Then is is a simple matter to assemble an n-dimentional database of relationships into a large net .
Then they need only to pull a single knot ( a person ) of this net and see all others strings and knots which are pulled also .
With this tool the government can intercept and neutralize any waxing movement , meme , or influential person .
...off with the tinfoil hat and back to my coffee .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>On with the tinfoil hats...and the cynical socks...
 
The power of technology from a government's perspective is to have the subjects of your suspicion(citizenry) freely and enthusiastically enter all their beliefs( micro/macro blogging), the topology of their personal relations(social networking sites), and  their personal communications(gmail)  into the databases of private corporations for the easy mining of the data by the keepers of all the keys(NSA, MI5, and others).
Then is is a simple matter to assemble an n-dimentional database of relationships into a large net.
Then they need only to pull a single knot(a person) of this net and see all others strings and knots which are pulled also.
With this tool the government can intercept and neutralize any waxing movement, meme,  or influential person.
...off with the tinfoil hat and back to my coffee.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496769</id>
	<title>Re:The alternative is no technology</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246134480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They have to or they end up like North Korea, relying on WWII level military tech to defend themselves while the rest of the world advances.  NK threatens us with weapons that can't even reach Alaska or Hawaii.  And we could bomb them from orbit if we really really wanted to.  Iran definitely doesn't want to end up in that position.  The longer they keep the net shut down in Iran, the more they are preventing themselves from doing business in the online world.  Maybe Iran can get by with it now, but probably only barely.  More and more, doing business means having the internet up and running.</p><p>If this was happening in China, the Chinese couldn't shut down the net because it would cripple their economy.  Iran will become defendant on it as well if they have not already.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They have to or they end up like North Korea , relying on WWII level military tech to defend themselves while the rest of the world advances .
NK threatens us with weapons that ca n't even reach Alaska or Hawaii .
And we could bomb them from orbit if we really really wanted to .
Iran definitely does n't want to end up in that position .
The longer they keep the net shut down in Iran , the more they are preventing themselves from doing business in the online world .
Maybe Iran can get by with it now , but probably only barely .
More and more , doing business means having the internet up and running.If this was happening in China , the Chinese could n't shut down the net because it would cripple their economy .
Iran will become defendant on it as well if they have not already .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They have to or they end up like North Korea, relying on WWII level military tech to defend themselves while the rest of the world advances.
NK threatens us with weapons that can't even reach Alaska or Hawaii.
And we could bomb them from orbit if we really really wanted to.
Iran definitely doesn't want to end up in that position.
The longer they keep the net shut down in Iran, the more they are preventing themselves from doing business in the online world.
Maybe Iran can get by with it now, but probably only barely.
More and more, doing business means having the internet up and running.If this was happening in China, the Chinese couldn't shut down the net because it would cripple their economy.
Iran will become defendant on it as well if they have not already.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493967</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28503043</id>
	<title>"What they need is more time."</title>
	<author>maillemaker</author>
	<datestamp>1246197720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Would more time have helped the Americans against the British in their revolution?</p><p>No, what these people need are guns and the will to use them.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would more time have helped the Americans against the British in their revolution ? No , what these people need are guns and the will to use them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would more time have helped the Americans against the British in their revolution?No, what these people need are guns and the will to use them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493913</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494819</id>
	<title>Wake Up</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246118640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you havent been paying attention in the last 5 years, our Government has that system already in place here, but to a much more powerful degree.<br>America: Home of the (they think they are) Free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you havent been paying attention in the last 5 years , our Government has that system already in place here , but to a much more powerful degree.America : Home of the ( they think they are ) Free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you havent been paying attention in the last 5 years, our Government has that system already in place here, but to a much more powerful degree.America: Home of the (they think they are) Free.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495705</id>
	<title>All Very Sad</title>
	<author>tuxgeek</author>
	<datestamp>1246125600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As much as Americans like to villanize the Iranians for political reasons, this is all very tragic to see the will of the Iranian people crushed by a few corrupt individuals and a couple of religious zealots in top authoritative positions.

</p><p>I thought America was bad after the past 10 years of political dictatorship by our own collection of criminals, including their gestapo arrest tactics, wiretapping of all internal communications, and general spying of all citizens. At least here in the US we can succeed at voting the assholes out. That took 8 years, but the task got done finally.

</p><p>It was a positive development to see the Iranian people, through political process, want change and friendship with the west and we are all better off for it. Our hearts go out to you all and hope you can make the changes to your system that will give you the freedom you deserve. Perhaps the Iranian dictatorship should read up about the demise of General Custer and a few other selected figures from history. They may all find themselves one day swinging from the end of a rope, or worse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As much as Americans like to villanize the Iranians for political reasons , this is all very tragic to see the will of the Iranian people crushed by a few corrupt individuals and a couple of religious zealots in top authoritative positions .
I thought America was bad after the past 10 years of political dictatorship by our own collection of criminals , including their gestapo arrest tactics , wiretapping of all internal communications , and general spying of all citizens .
At least here in the US we can succeed at voting the assholes out .
That took 8 years , but the task got done finally .
It was a positive development to see the Iranian people , through political process , want change and friendship with the west and we are all better off for it .
Our hearts go out to you all and hope you can make the changes to your system that will give you the freedom you deserve .
Perhaps the Iranian dictatorship should read up about the demise of General Custer and a few other selected figures from history .
They may all find themselves one day swinging from the end of a rope , or worse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As much as Americans like to villanize the Iranians for political reasons, this is all very tragic to see the will of the Iranian people crushed by a few corrupt individuals and a couple of religious zealots in top authoritative positions.
I thought America was bad after the past 10 years of political dictatorship by our own collection of criminals, including their gestapo arrest tactics, wiretapping of all internal communications, and general spying of all citizens.
At least here in the US we can succeed at voting the assholes out.
That took 8 years, but the task got done finally.
It was a positive development to see the Iranian people, through political process, want change and friendship with the west and we are all better off for it.
Our hearts go out to you all and hope you can make the changes to your system that will give you the freedom you deserve.
Perhaps the Iranian dictatorship should read up about the demise of General Custer and a few other selected figures from history.
They may all find themselves one day swinging from the end of a rope, or worse.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494687</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption VS Deep Packet Inspection</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246117500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>That's not how you do it. You send a message from one anonymous ad-hoc email account to another saying that the bomb is at (insert main evil bad guy)'s sister's house.</htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's not how you do it .
You send a message from one anonymous ad-hoc email account to another saying that the bomb is at ( insert main evil bad guy ) 's sister 's house .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's not how you do it.
You send a message from one anonymous ad-hoc email account to another saying that the bomb is at (insert main evil bad guy)'s sister's house.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496087</id>
	<title>Re:another way to look at it</title>
	<author>CarpetShark</author>
	<datestamp>1246129380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Corporation will \_always\_ help whoever has money and is willing to part with it. They don't care for good or evil, or a human concept of "morals".</p></div></blockquote><p>Since it's pretty commonly acknowledged that the best (in the sense of most virtuous) things in life are free, I think you'll find that corporations are very much biased towards the "evil" (for want of a better word) side of the spectrum.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Corporation will \ _always \ _ help whoever has money and is willing to part with it .
They do n't care for good or evil , or a human concept of " morals " .Since it 's pretty commonly acknowledged that the best ( in the sense of most virtuous ) things in life are free , I think you 'll find that corporations are very much biased towards the " evil " ( for want of a better word ) side of the spectrum .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Corporation will \_always\_ help whoever has money and is willing to part with it.
They don't care for good or evil, or a human concept of "morals".Since it's pretty commonly acknowledged that the best (in the sense of most virtuous) things in life are free, I think you'll find that corporations are very much biased towards the "evil" (for want of a better word) side of the spectrum.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494565</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493931</id>
	<title>Encryption VS Deep Packet Inspection</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246109820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My money is on the first. I want to see a program cracking my nicely encrypted email</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My money is on the first .
I want to see a program cracking my nicely encrypted email</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My money is on the first.
I want to see a program cracking my nicely encrypted email</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494785</id>
	<title>troll subject</title>
	<author>smoker2</author>
	<datestamp>1246118460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>So "only a few harrowing accounts" have got through the blocks. If there were such a block in place it can't be very good then can it. Maybe the reason there are only a few, is because there are only a few anyway. I see more violence in the city centre on a friday night.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So " only a few harrowing accounts " have got through the blocks .
If there were such a block in place it ca n't be very good then can it .
Maybe the reason there are only a few , is because there are only a few anyway .
I see more violence in the city centre on a friday night .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So "only a few harrowing accounts" have got through the blocks.
If there were such a block in place it can't be very good then can it.
Maybe the reason there are only a few, is because there are only a few anyway.
I see more violence in the city centre on a friday night.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494095</id>
	<title>Re:US citizens' have their hands tied</title>
	<author>rrossman2</author>
	<datestamp>1246111800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>which is dumb... someone who lives outside the united state could very well download the strong crypto program or library legally (well legal for the person in the US hosting it), and maybe their country doesn't have the same export laws for crypto, and hosts it for a country that's a no-no from a US point of view</htmltext>
<tokenext>which is dumb... someone who lives outside the united state could very well download the strong crypto program or library legally ( well legal for the person in the US hosting it ) , and maybe their country does n't have the same export laws for crypto , and hosts it for a country that 's a no-no from a US point of view</tokentext>
<sentencetext>which is dumb... someone who lives outside the united state could very well download the strong crypto program or library legally (well legal for the person in the US hosting it), and maybe their country doesn't have the same export laws for crypto, and hosts it for a country that's a no-no from a US point of view</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494017</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494589</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption VS Deep Packet Inspection</title>
	<author>dotancohen</author>
	<datestamp>1246116300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If they really are going to try to crack every email , it would be fun to send a highly encrypted email , containg only large amounts of gibberish , to a friend everyday.</p></div><p>Sounds like a great way to get them to harass and investigate your friend. Your goal to drain their resources will just give them legitimacy to switch to more invasive tactics.</p><p>If they cannot break your code, they just might break the legs of someone who can.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they really are going to try to crack every email , it would be fun to send a highly encrypted email , containg only large amounts of gibberish , to a friend everyday.Sounds like a great way to get them to harass and investigate your friend .
Your goal to drain their resources will just give them legitimacy to switch to more invasive tactics.If they can not break your code , they just might break the legs of someone who can .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they really are going to try to crack every email , it would be fun to send a highly encrypted email , containg only large amounts of gibberish , to a friend everyday.Sounds like a great way to get them to harass and investigate your friend.
Your goal to drain their resources will just give them legitimacy to switch to more invasive tactics.If they cannot break your code, they just might break the legs of someone who can.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494065</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494565</id>
	<title>Re:another way to look at it</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1246116060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Corporation will \_always\_ help whoever has money and is willing to part with it. They don't care for good or evil, or a human concept of "morals". They won't refuse a good deal just because it's "evil", neither will they go out of their way to do "evil" if there's no profit to be made. It just happens that most profit is in immoral acts.</p><p>Or criminal acts, in which case penalties and the chance to get caught are factored in as cost position. Morals and consciousness have no place in corporate decisions, mostly because the people involved can easily shift their moral concerns aside.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Corporation will \ _always \ _ help whoever has money and is willing to part with it .
They do n't care for good or evil , or a human concept of " morals " .
They wo n't refuse a good deal just because it 's " evil " , neither will they go out of their way to do " evil " if there 's no profit to be made .
It just happens that most profit is in immoral acts.Or criminal acts , in which case penalties and the chance to get caught are factored in as cost position .
Morals and consciousness have no place in corporate decisions , mostly because the people involved can easily shift their moral concerns aside .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Corporation will \_always\_ help whoever has money and is willing to part with it.
They don't care for good or evil, or a human concept of "morals".
They won't refuse a good deal just because it's "evil", neither will they go out of their way to do "evil" if there's no profit to be made.
It just happens that most profit is in immoral acts.Or criminal acts, in which case penalties and the chance to get caught are factored in as cost position.
Morals and consciousness have no place in corporate decisions, mostly because the people involved can easily shift their moral concerns aside.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493873</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494199</id>
	<title>Re:The internet never forgets</title>
	<author>ducomputergeek</author>
	<datestamp>1246113060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And it may not only be the people inside Iran.  I'm not sure what Iran's capabilities are for external intelligence operations, but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't hear about a few of these people outside Iran that were leading the charge to set up proxies have unfortunate accidents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And it may not only be the people inside Iran .
I 'm not sure what Iran 's capabilities are for external intelligence operations , but I would n't be surprised if we do n't hear about a few of these people outside Iran that were leading the charge to set up proxies have unfortunate accidents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And it may not only be the people inside Iran.
I'm not sure what Iran's capabilities are for external intelligence operations, but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't hear about a few of these people outside Iran that were leading the charge to set up proxies have unfortunate accidents.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494091</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28497355</id>
	<title>Re:another way to look at it</title>
	<author>MindlessAutomata</author>
	<datestamp>1246094880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And who purchases from corporations?  Either regular people, or governments.  Think about that a little bit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And who purchases from corporations ?
Either regular people , or governments .
Think about that a little bit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And who purchases from corporations?
Either regular people, or governments.
Think about that a little bit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494565</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494579</id>
	<title>Re:You can help.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246116180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Geez people, you're mighty funny. Look at the summary before recommending Tor. Tor doesn't help at all if your ISP is cooperating with the authorities, which is, without doubt the case in Iran. Using tor in these circumstances will only make you stand out.</p><p>TCPI/IP over avian carriers, on the other hand, could be a better idea. Any place I can sign up with my pidgeons to help?</p><p>Oh, and cut that Neda*whatnot crap please.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Geez people , you 're mighty funny .
Look at the summary before recommending Tor .
Tor does n't help at all if your ISP is cooperating with the authorities , which is , without doubt the case in Iran .
Using tor in these circumstances will only make you stand out.TCPI/IP over avian carriers , on the other hand , could be a better idea .
Any place I can sign up with my pidgeons to help ? Oh , and cut that Neda * whatnot crap please .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Geez people, you're mighty funny.
Look at the summary before recommending Tor.
Tor doesn't help at all if your ISP is cooperating with the authorities, which is, without doubt the case in Iran.
Using tor in these circumstances will only make you stand out.TCPI/IP over avian carriers, on the other hand, could be a better idea.
Any place I can sign up with my pidgeons to help?Oh, and cut that Neda*whatnot crap please.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493917</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495127</id>
	<title>Re:Embassy Wi-fi?</title>
	<author>DavidTC</author>
	<datestamp>1246120800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Which would get them kicked out of the country.</p><p>
Embassies may be involute foreign soil, but but that doesn't mean the host country has to let you keep <b>operating</b> them. They can say 'You have 24 hours until this embassy stops being an embassy. We will expect you gone by then.'</p><p>
Although in reality they'd just jam the signal.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Which would get them kicked out of the country .
Embassies may be involute foreign soil , but but that does n't mean the host country has to let you keep operating them .
They can say 'You have 24 hours until this embassy stops being an embassy .
We will expect you gone by then .
' Although in reality they 'd just jam the signal .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Which would get them kicked out of the country.
Embassies may be involute foreign soil, but but that doesn't mean the host country has to let you keep operating them.
They can say 'You have 24 hours until this embassy stops being an embassy.
We will expect you gone by then.
'
Although in reality they'd just jam the signal.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494559</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494065</id>
	<title>Re:Encryption VS Deep Packet Inspection</title>
	<author>kdemetter</author>
	<datestamp>1246111560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they really are going to try to crack every email , it would be fun to send a highly encrypted email , containg only large amounts of gibberish , to a friend everyday.</p><p>Then they would spend hours or days decrypting it , only to see a message , which they think might be a sort of encryption as well.<br>They might try to construct a real message from it.</p><p>Could be fun</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they really are going to try to crack every email , it would be fun to send a highly encrypted email , containg only large amounts of gibberish , to a friend everyday.Then they would spend hours or days decrypting it , only to see a message , which they think might be a sort of encryption as well.They might try to construct a real message from it.Could be fun</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they really are going to try to crack every email , it would be fun to send a highly encrypted email , containg only large amounts of gibberish , to a friend everyday.Then they would spend hours or days decrypting it , only to see a message , which they think might be a sort of encryption as well.They might try to construct a real message from it.Could be fun</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493931</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495419</id>
	<title>The Grotesquely Ugly Truth</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246123320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people. Period.
<p>
After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market. Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
</p><p>
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians. The folks running the government are Iranian. The president is Iranian. The secret police are Iranian. The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
</p><p>
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur. Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
</p><p>
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government. We must condemn Iranian culture. Its product is the authoritarian state.
</p><p>
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran. If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence. Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy. The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
</p><p>
The Iranians created this horrible society. It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons. We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
</p><p>
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans. They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people. Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West. Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society. They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
</p><p>
Cultures are different. Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different. The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran. We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the absence of an external interfering force ( e. g. , army of the Soviet Union ) , the fate of a nation is determined by its people .
Period . After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe , the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market .
Except for Romania ( where its people killed their dictator ) , there was no violence .
In Iran ( and many other failed states ) , no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians .
The folks running the government are Iranian .
The president is Iranian .
The secret police are Iranian .
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian .
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran , violence will occur .
Why ? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates .
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government .
We must condemn Iranian culture .
Its product is the authoritarian state .
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran .
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians ( like the overwhelming majority of Poles ) truly support democracy , human rights , and peace with Israel , then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence .
Right now , the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy .
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy .
The Iranians created this horrible society .
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons .
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities .
Note that , 40 years ago , Vietnam suffered a worse fate ( than the Iranians ) at the hands of the Americans .
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange , poisoning both the land and the people .
Yet , the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge ( by , e. g. , building a nuclear bomb ) against the West .
Rather , the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society .
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians .
Cultures are different .
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different .
The Iranians bear 100 \ % of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran .
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people.
Period.

After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market.
Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians.
The folks running the government are Iranian.
The president is Iranian.
The secret police are Iranian.
The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur.
Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government.
We must condemn Iranian culture.
Its product is the authoritarian state.
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran.
If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence.
Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy.
The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
The Iranians created this horrible society.
It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons.
We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans.
They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people.
Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West.
Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society.
They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
Cultures are different.
Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different.
The Iranians bear 100\% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran.
We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493917</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496277</id>
	<title>Infomation smugglers?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246131300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK, so there is a single official choke point that inspects the traffic headed into<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/out of  Iran. how hard would it be to make an unofficial connection to there? i have only a modest technical background but here are some ideas that i can think of off the top of my head. Tehran looks to be about 200-500 miles from any border internationally.<br>1.  Ham radios get about 15 miles of range,  let's assume that you would need 20- 30 for cross border traffic chained to each other, more if you wanted to build a redundant web of information. slap a 5w solar cell on the radio and add some batteries. I figure a unit like this would cost  about $400 from the prices that i saw around the Internet (100 per radio and cell, 200 misc) let's also assume that for the sake for redundancy that 100 units were built. This brings the cost of  this to about $40000. Directional antennas and signal obfuscation could possibly make detection more difficult. Costs would be probably be higher in terms of money and life, so consider that $40000 to be an unscientific wild ass guess.</p><p>2. Border blasting and stereography. Regular radios can reach father than ham radios to my knowledge. there is a DJ in Israel that plays music to Iranian audiences, so I strongly believe it is possible to send data streams to and from Iran over conventional radio waves. again directional antennas could make signal go further. blocking might be an issue, but i will let a physics person discuss that problem.</p><p>3. Running a fiber across the border. I don't think this would be the best option, but i include it for the sake of completion.</p><p>4. a combination of the above.</p><p>i took some science classes in college, but a was a history major. I assume that there are plenty of hobbyists and engineers who would know about the specific pros and cons of my suggestion.</p><p>And for the sake of completion, I ask a few questions for the technical crowd:</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; How hard is it to detect a directional radio connection?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; How hard is it to align directional dishes?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; How are radio signals jammed, and how does one counter such jamming?<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; How do you detect an unauthorized physical connection to a large scale network?</p><p>If its tough to stop drug smugglers, it might be difficult to stop data smugglers.</p><p>discuss.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK , so there is a single official choke point that inspects the traffic headed into /out of Iran .
how hard would it be to make an unofficial connection to there ?
i have only a modest technical background but here are some ideas that i can think of off the top of my head .
Tehran looks to be about 200-500 miles from any border internationally.1 .
Ham radios get about 15 miles of range , let 's assume that you would need 20- 30 for cross border traffic chained to each other , more if you wanted to build a redundant web of information .
slap a 5w solar cell on the radio and add some batteries .
I figure a unit like this would cost about $ 400 from the prices that i saw around the Internet ( 100 per radio and cell , 200 misc ) let 's also assume that for the sake for redundancy that 100 units were built .
This brings the cost of this to about $ 40000 .
Directional antennas and signal obfuscation could possibly make detection more difficult .
Costs would be probably be higher in terms of money and life , so consider that $ 40000 to be an unscientific wild ass guess.2 .
Border blasting and stereography .
Regular radios can reach father than ham radios to my knowledge .
there is a DJ in Israel that plays music to Iranian audiences , so I strongly believe it is possible to send data streams to and from Iran over conventional radio waves .
again directional antennas could make signal go further .
blocking might be an issue , but i will let a physics person discuss that problem.3 .
Running a fiber across the border .
I do n't think this would be the best option , but i include it for the sake of completion.4 .
a combination of the above.i took some science classes in college , but a was a history major .
I assume that there are plenty of hobbyists and engineers who would know about the specific pros and cons of my suggestion.And for the sake of completion , I ask a few questions for the technical crowd :     How hard is it to detect a directional radio connection ?
    How hard is it to align directional dishes ?
    How are radio signals jammed , and how does one counter such jamming ?
    How do you detect an unauthorized physical connection to a large scale network ? If its tough to stop drug smugglers , it might be difficult to stop data smugglers.discuss .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK, so there is a single official choke point that inspects the traffic headed into /out of  Iran.
how hard would it be to make an unofficial connection to there?
i have only a modest technical background but here are some ideas that i can think of off the top of my head.
Tehran looks to be about 200-500 miles from any border internationally.1.
Ham radios get about 15 miles of range,  let's assume that you would need 20- 30 for cross border traffic chained to each other, more if you wanted to build a redundant web of information.
slap a 5w solar cell on the radio and add some batteries.
I figure a unit like this would cost  about $400 from the prices that i saw around the Internet (100 per radio and cell, 200 misc) let's also assume that for the sake for redundancy that 100 units were built.
This brings the cost of  this to about $40000.
Directional antennas and signal obfuscation could possibly make detection more difficult.
Costs would be probably be higher in terms of money and life, so consider that $40000 to be an unscientific wild ass guess.2.
Border blasting and stereography.
Regular radios can reach father than ham radios to my knowledge.
there is a DJ in Israel that plays music to Iranian audiences, so I strongly believe it is possible to send data streams to and from Iran over conventional radio waves.
again directional antennas could make signal go further.
blocking might be an issue, but i will let a physics person discuss that problem.3.
Running a fiber across the border.
I don't think this would be the best option, but i include it for the sake of completion.4.
a combination of the above.i took some science classes in college, but a was a history major.
I assume that there are plenty of hobbyists and engineers who would know about the specific pros and cons of my suggestion.And for the sake of completion, I ask a few questions for the technical crowd:
    How hard is it to detect a directional radio connection?
    How hard is it to align directional dishes?
    How are radio signals jammed, and how does one counter such jamming?
    How do you detect an unauthorized physical connection to a large scale network?If its tough to stop drug smugglers, it might be difficult to stop data smugglers.discuss.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493917</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496621</id>
	<title>Free Speech or Stone Age</title>
	<author>kozubik</author>
	<datestamp>1246133460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I began writing this short piece a year or two ago, titled "Free Speech or Stone Age":

<a href="http://blog.kozubik.com/john\_kozubik/2009/06/free-speech-or-stone-age.html" title="kozubik.com" rel="nofollow">http://blog.kozubik.com/john\_kozubik/2009/06/free-speech-or-stone-age.html</a> [kozubik.com]

The current events in Iran are a perfect illustration of two competing memes:  the (mistaken) notion that a state can completely suppress anonymous free speech while maintaining a modern economy, and the (surprising to some) notion that that is impossible.

Many Iranians (and even many Americans) may not realize it, but arbitrary, anonymous free speech on any subject is currently available in Iran, as well as China, etc.  This is a fact.  Only by freezing all international travel, confiscating all general purpose computing devices, and outlawing/jamming all standardized wireless network protocols could Iran possibly hope to curtail this speech.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I began writing this short piece a year or two ago , titled " Free Speech or Stone Age " : http : //blog.kozubik.com/john \ _kozubik/2009/06/free-speech-or-stone-age.html [ kozubik.com ] The current events in Iran are a perfect illustration of two competing memes : the ( mistaken ) notion that a state can completely suppress anonymous free speech while maintaining a modern economy , and the ( surprising to some ) notion that that is impossible .
Many Iranians ( and even many Americans ) may not realize it , but arbitrary , anonymous free speech on any subject is currently available in Iran , as well as China , etc .
This is a fact .
Only by freezing all international travel , confiscating all general purpose computing devices , and outlawing/jamming all standardized wireless network protocols could Iran possibly hope to curtail this speech .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I began writing this short piece a year or two ago, titled "Free Speech or Stone Age":

http://blog.kozubik.com/john\_kozubik/2009/06/free-speech-or-stone-age.html [kozubik.com]

The current events in Iran are a perfect illustration of two competing memes:  the (mistaken) notion that a state can completely suppress anonymous free speech while maintaining a modern economy, and the (surprising to some) notion that that is impossible.
Many Iranians (and even many Americans) may not realize it, but arbitrary, anonymous free speech on any subject is currently available in Iran, as well as China, etc.
This is a fact.
Only by freezing all international travel, confiscating all general purpose computing devices, and outlawing/jamming all standardized wireless network protocols could Iran possibly hope to curtail this speech.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493927</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494359</id>
	<title>Re:Of course.</title>
	<author>eddy</author>
	<datestamp>1246114320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know where you got the idea that you can't block encrypted traffic. It's not like you really even need a distinguishing attack, just block all high-entropy content. Sure, some merely compressed content will get caught aswell, but so what? Even if you allow it though if there's some known signature (PK, RAR, JFIF, etc), you have a system which only a few hundred people in the country will have the capability to penetrate, and when they do, they're effectively excluded from the 'mass market' (your twitter, facebook, youtube, etc).</p><p>1. Block ports used for encrypted traffic (ports 22,443), or only allow whitelisted ports.</p><p>2. Block protocols when they expose encryption negotiation (STARTTLS, DHKE in instant messaging, etc), or all protocols that aren't whitelisted</p><p>3. Block HTTP/SMTP with encryption signatures (PGP/GPG blocks)</p><p>4. Block non-whitelisted high entropy connections.</p><p>What you're left with is steganography, and that's astrology to cryptologys astronomy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know where you got the idea that you ca n't block encrypted traffic .
It 's not like you really even need a distinguishing attack , just block all high-entropy content .
Sure , some merely compressed content will get caught aswell , but so what ?
Even if you allow it though if there 's some known signature ( PK , RAR , JFIF , etc ) , you have a system which only a few hundred people in the country will have the capability to penetrate , and when they do , they 're effectively excluded from the 'mass market ' ( your twitter , facebook , youtube , etc ) .1 .
Block ports used for encrypted traffic ( ports 22,443 ) , or only allow whitelisted ports.2 .
Block protocols when they expose encryption negotiation ( STARTTLS , DHKE in instant messaging , etc ) , or all protocols that are n't whitelisted3 .
Block HTTP/SMTP with encryption signatures ( PGP/GPG blocks ) 4 .
Block non-whitelisted high entropy connections.What you 're left with is steganography , and that 's astrology to cryptologys astronomy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know where you got the idea that you can't block encrypted traffic.
It's not like you really even need a distinguishing attack, just block all high-entropy content.
Sure, some merely compressed content will get caught aswell, but so what?
Even if you allow it though if there's some known signature (PK, RAR, JFIF, etc), you have a system which only a few hundred people in the country will have the capability to penetrate, and when they do, they're effectively excluded from the 'mass market' (your twitter, facebook, youtube, etc).1.
Block ports used for encrypted traffic (ports 22,443), or only allow whitelisted ports.2.
Block protocols when they expose encryption negotiation (STARTTLS, DHKE in instant messaging, etc), or all protocols that aren't whitelisted3.
Block HTTP/SMTP with encryption signatures (PGP/GPG blocks)4.
Block non-whitelisted high entropy connections.What you're left with is steganography, and that's astrology to cryptologys astronomy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494203</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493967</id>
	<title>The alternative is no technology</title>
	<author>msgmonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1246110300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>you see the regime would love there to be no communications but they have to since young Iranians demand it.  From what I can tell Iranians put up with the controls on public appearence/behavior because atleast in private they have outlets such as the Internet to express themselves, now with this under control too if I was an Iranian I would feel even more frustrated that it is creeping into their private lives.  Maybe the youth have been placated with Internet and mobile phones but I'm hoping that whatever the outcome people will realise that the small luxuries that they are allowed to have can and will be used against them which in the longer term can only cause more angst and dissent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>you see the regime would love there to be no communications but they have to since young Iranians demand it .
From what I can tell Iranians put up with the controls on public appearence/behavior because atleast in private they have outlets such as the Internet to express themselves , now with this under control too if I was an Iranian I would feel even more frustrated that it is creeping into their private lives .
Maybe the youth have been placated with Internet and mobile phones but I 'm hoping that whatever the outcome people will realise that the small luxuries that they are allowed to have can and will be used against them which in the longer term can only cause more angst and dissent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>you see the regime would love there to be no communications but they have to since young Iranians demand it.
From what I can tell Iranians put up with the controls on public appearence/behavior because atleast in private they have outlets such as the Internet to express themselves, now with this under control too if I was an Iranian I would feel even more frustrated that it is creeping into their private lives.
Maybe the youth have been placated with Internet and mobile phones but I'm hoping that whatever the outcome people will realise that the small luxuries that they are allowed to have can and will be used against them which in the longer term can only cause more angst and dissent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494285</id>
	<title>not much different</title>
	<author>Tom</author>
	<datestamp>1246113660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It just struck me how little difference there is between the rulers of Iran and our own.</p><p>Here in Germany, they just passed a law to censor the Internet wrt "child porn". A party leader held a speech yesterday essentially telling the citizens that they suck and should participate more in politics (and yet when they do, as with the record signatures petition against the child porn censorship law, they get ignored). Essentially, reminding me of Brecht who once said "If the people aren't to the liking of parliament, why doesn't parliament simply dissolve the people and elect a new one?"</p><p>Seems that people in power around the world share the same priorities. Most importantly: Staying in power and having control comes first. Everything else is secondary to that.</p><p>Maybe in a thousand years we'll look back at the early 21st century and shake our heads at how those ancient, primitive people could still have believed in government, states and the whole power structures. At least I hope that future generations will find better ways to govern themselves.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It just struck me how little difference there is between the rulers of Iran and our own.Here in Germany , they just passed a law to censor the Internet wrt " child porn " .
A party leader held a speech yesterday essentially telling the citizens that they suck and should participate more in politics ( and yet when they do , as with the record signatures petition against the child porn censorship law , they get ignored ) .
Essentially , reminding me of Brecht who once said " If the people are n't to the liking of parliament , why does n't parliament simply dissolve the people and elect a new one ?
" Seems that people in power around the world share the same priorities .
Most importantly : Staying in power and having control comes first .
Everything else is secondary to that.Maybe in a thousand years we 'll look back at the early 21st century and shake our heads at how those ancient , primitive people could still have believed in government , states and the whole power structures .
At least I hope that future generations will find better ways to govern themselves .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It just struck me how little difference there is between the rulers of Iran and our own.Here in Germany, they just passed a law to censor the Internet wrt "child porn".
A party leader held a speech yesterday essentially telling the citizens that they suck and should participate more in politics (and yet when they do, as with the record signatures petition against the child porn censorship law, they get ignored).
Essentially, reminding me of Brecht who once said "If the people aren't to the liking of parliament, why doesn't parliament simply dissolve the people and elect a new one?
"Seems that people in power around the world share the same priorities.
Most importantly: Staying in power and having control comes first.
Everything else is secondary to that.Maybe in a thousand years we'll look back at the early 21st century and shake our heads at how those ancient, primitive people could still have believed in government, states and the whole power structures.
At least I hope that future generations will find better ways to govern themselves.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493943</id>
	<title>"only a few...pictures and videos getting through"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246109940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>For now. I suspect large proportions of recorded materials will find their way out sooner or later.</p><p>Might not help this revolution, perhaps the next one...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For now .
I suspect large proportions of recorded materials will find their way out sooner or later.Might not help this revolution , perhaps the next one.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For now.
I suspect large proportions of recorded materials will find their way out sooner or later.Might not help this revolution, perhaps the next one...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28496691</id>
	<title>Lawful Intercept</title>
	<author>funkboy</author>
	<datestamp>1246134000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This BBC article is very good:</p><p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8112550.stm" title="bbc.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8112550.stm</a> [bbc.co.uk]</p><p>The BBC's article points out that a monitored system is better than no system, and that the Islamic Republic would certainly not have allowed mobile phones &amp; internet to exist without such a system.</p><p>Listen:</p><p>Most large mobile phone networks (and internet networks) in western countries have a feature known as lawful intercept designed to allow law enforcement officials to monitor subscriber conversations. No vendor in their right mind would design gear without this feature as many nations' laws mandate its presence in public telecom networks.</p><p>In western nations, it's use requires a search warrant by law. Obviously, the hardware has no clue whether the operator has a warrant or not.</p><p>The only difference is that Khamenei doesn't give two shits about the warrant. But then, George Bush ordered the use of this exact same feature on AT&amp;T and PacBell's networks without warrants as well, so what's the difference?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This BBC article is very good : http : //news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8112550.stm [ bbc.co.uk ] The BBC 's article points out that a monitored system is better than no system , and that the Islamic Republic would certainly not have allowed mobile phones &amp; internet to exist without such a system.Listen : Most large mobile phone networks ( and internet networks ) in western countries have a feature known as lawful intercept designed to allow law enforcement officials to monitor subscriber conversations .
No vendor in their right mind would design gear without this feature as many nations ' laws mandate its presence in public telecom networks.In western nations , it 's use requires a search warrant by law .
Obviously , the hardware has no clue whether the operator has a warrant or not.The only difference is that Khamenei does n't give two shits about the warrant .
But then , George Bush ordered the use of this exact same feature on AT&amp;T and PacBell 's networks without warrants as well , so what 's the difference ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This BBC article is very good:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8112550.stm [bbc.co.uk]The BBC's article points out that a monitored system is better than no system, and that the Islamic Republic would certainly not have allowed mobile phones &amp; internet to exist without such a system.Listen:Most large mobile phone networks (and internet networks) in western countries have a feature known as lawful intercept designed to allow law enforcement officials to monitor subscriber conversations.
No vendor in their right mind would design gear without this feature as many nations' laws mandate its presence in public telecom networks.In western nations, it's use requires a search warrant by law.
Obviously, the hardware has no clue whether the operator has a warrant or not.The only difference is that Khamenei doesn't give two shits about the warrant.
But then, George Bush ordered the use of this exact same feature on AT&amp;T and PacBell's networks without warrants as well, so what's the difference?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495323</id>
	<title>Re:You can help.</title>
	<author>thePowerOfGrayskull</author>
	<datestamp>1246122480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If the article is accurate - and all traffic goes through a single chokepoint - wouldn't that mean that even connections to anonymizing proxies are also going through that chokepoint, and thus leading back to their users before those users are safely proxied?</htmltext>
<tokenext>If the article is accurate - and all traffic goes through a single chokepoint - would n't that mean that even connections to anonymizing proxies are also going through that chokepoint , and thus leading back to their users before those users are safely proxied ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the article is accurate - and all traffic goes through a single chokepoint - wouldn't that mean that even connections to anonymizing proxies are also going through that chokepoint, and thus leading back to their users before those users are safely proxied?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28493917</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28495919</id>
	<title>Re:not much different</title>
	<author>Petkov</author>
	<datestamp>1246127760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wowo, your is the MOST insightful comment I have read in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. ever. Wish I had points but... Yes you got it. They are ALL exactly the same: USA's gov, Germany's, China's Iran's.  They just claim others are bad so they can make themselves look good. It's all a big giant theater of the absurd and we are thg sheeple.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wowo , your is the MOST insightful comment I have read in / .
ever. Wish I had points but... Yes you got it .
They are ALL exactly the same : USA 's gov , Germany 's , China 's Iran 's .
They just claim others are bad so they can make themselves look good .
It 's all a big giant theater of the absurd and we are thg sheeple .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wowo, your is the MOST insightful comment I have read in /.
ever. Wish I had points but... Yes you got it.
They are ALL exactly the same: USA's gov, Germany's, China's Iran's.
They just claim others are bad so they can make themselves look good.
It's all a big giant theater of the absurd and we are thg sheeple.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_27_0344230.28494285</parent>
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