<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_26_0730223</id>
	<title>Can Video Game Accessibility Go Too Far?</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1246022280000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>A piece at GameSetWatch questions whether modern game companies are <a href="http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2009/06/analysis\_can\_nintendo\_take\_acc.php">taking accessibility a step too far</a> in their rush to attract people who don't typically play video games. This worry was inspired, in part, by the news that Nintendo's <em>New Super Mario Bros. Wii</em> would <a href="http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/06/19/0514228/emNew-Super-Mario-Bros-Wiiem-To-Include-Official-Cheat?from=rss">have the capability to play itself</a> in order to let a human player get past a tricky part. Quoting:
<i>"Bigger audiences finishing more games is certainly a worthy goal, and Nintendo has shown that accessibility is the servant of engagement. History has rarely &mdash; if ever &mdash; dared to disprove the wisdom of Miyamoto's foresight. History has also never disproven, however, the principle that any medium and any message degrades the wider an audience it must reach. Art was never served by generalization, nor language by addressing all denominators. Entertainment for the masses ultimately becomes empty. There must exist an absolute point beyond which greater accessibility means less engagement. Making a game so easy it can play itself for you at the push of a button just might be that point."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>A piece at GameSetWatch questions whether modern game companies are taking accessibility a step too far in their rush to attract people who do n't typically play video games .
This worry was inspired , in part , by the news that Nintendo 's New Super Mario Bros. Wii would have the capability to play itself in order to let a human player get past a tricky part .
Quoting : " Bigger audiences finishing more games is certainly a worthy goal , and Nintendo has shown that accessibility is the servant of engagement .
History has rarely    if ever    dared to disprove the wisdom of Miyamoto 's foresight .
History has also never disproven , however , the principle that any medium and any message degrades the wider an audience it must reach .
Art was never served by generalization , nor language by addressing all denominators .
Entertainment for the masses ultimately becomes empty .
There must exist an absolute point beyond which greater accessibility means less engagement .
Making a game so easy it can play itself for you at the push of a button just might be that point .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A piece at GameSetWatch questions whether modern game companies are taking accessibility a step too far in their rush to attract people who don't typically play video games.
This worry was inspired, in part, by the news that Nintendo's New Super Mario Bros. Wii would have the capability to play itself in order to let a human player get past a tricky part.
Quoting:
"Bigger audiences finishing more games is certainly a worthy goal, and Nintendo has shown that accessibility is the servant of engagement.
History has rarely — if ever — dared to disprove the wisdom of Miyamoto's foresight.
History has also never disproven, however, the principle that any medium and any message degrades the wider an audience it must reach.
Art was never served by generalization, nor language by addressing all denominators.
Entertainment for the masses ultimately becomes empty.
There must exist an absolute point beyond which greater accessibility means less engagement.
Making a game so easy it can play itself for you at the push of a button just might be that point.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28486793</id>
	<title>Re:Finally!</title>
	<author>Draek</author>
	<datestamp>1246047600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And I hate having to play through Max Payne 2 three times in a row every time I reinstall it just to get myself some real difficulty, but this is at best only a half-assed solution to that problem.</p><p>I'd rather ask for everything to be unlocked by default, or something like the unlock codes of old rather than use this, since it still means I have to spend ~6 hours in front of the computer pressing the "play by yourself" button, watching shit pass by and for that, I'd rather play the goddamned game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I hate having to play through Max Payne 2 three times in a row every time I reinstall it just to get myself some real difficulty , but this is at best only a half-assed solution to that problem.I 'd rather ask for everything to be unlocked by default , or something like the unlock codes of old rather than use this , since it still means I have to spend ~ 6 hours in front of the computer pressing the " play by yourself " button , watching shit pass by and for that , I 'd rather play the goddamned game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I hate having to play through Max Payne 2 three times in a row every time I reinstall it just to get myself some real difficulty, but this is at best only a half-assed solution to that problem.I'd rather ask for everything to be unlocked by default, or something like the unlock codes of old rather than use this, since it still means I have to spend ~6 hours in front of the computer pressing the "play by yourself" button, watching shit pass by and for that, I'd rather play the goddamned game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481677</id>
	<title>It is the new easy mode.</title>
	<author>vortoxin</author>
	<datestamp>1246028700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It is how I look at most games.  I like a challenge, but I do not want to have to allocate project management, tons of research, and bringing my A game every time I play it.  This is just a new easy mode, same as a cheat for God mode, or turning down difficulty a ton like a combat slider in Oblivion.</p><p>I want to be involved in the game story, get some enjoyment out of it, and not miss some part of the game because a different minority wants me to suffer through a game to get the best items or game play experience just because they had to.</p><p>I give Progress Quest as an example of the game will play itself, you will watch it, and you will be amused as an example of this.  <a href="http://www.progressquest.com/" title="progressquest.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.progressquest.com/</a> [progressquest.com]  It has a following, so maybe there is some truth in the matter.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It is how I look at most games .
I like a challenge , but I do not want to have to allocate project management , tons of research , and bringing my A game every time I play it .
This is just a new easy mode , same as a cheat for God mode , or turning down difficulty a ton like a combat slider in Oblivion.I want to be involved in the game story , get some enjoyment out of it , and not miss some part of the game because a different minority wants me to suffer through a game to get the best items or game play experience just because they had to.I give Progress Quest as an example of the game will play itself , you will watch it , and you will be amused as an example of this .
http : //www.progressquest.com/ [ progressquest.com ] It has a following , so maybe there is some truth in the matter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It is how I look at most games.
I like a challenge, but I do not want to have to allocate project management, tons of research, and bringing my A game every time I play it.
This is just a new easy mode, same as a cheat for God mode, or turning down difficulty a ton like a combat slider in Oblivion.I want to be involved in the game story, get some enjoyment out of it, and not miss some part of the game because a different minority wants me to suffer through a game to get the best items or game play experience just because they had to.I give Progress Quest as an example of the game will play itself, you will watch it, and you will be amused as an example of this.
http://www.progressquest.com/ [progressquest.com]  It has a following, so maybe there is some truth in the matter.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484039</id>
	<title>Re:This is new?</title>
	<author>cerberusss</author>
	<datestamp>1246036260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>up up down down left right left right a b b a.</p></div><p>Then what? "Dancing Queen" started playing?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>up up down down left right left right a b b a.Then what ?
" Dancing Queen " started playing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>up up down down left right left right a b b a.Then what?
"Dancing Queen" started playing?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481349</id>
	<title>Everyone's Special</title>
	<author>ThinkWeak</author>
	<datestamp>1246027500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Score one for the "Everyone's special" crowd.  However, this could be good for the regular gamer. <br>
<br>
We have an entire generation of employees entering the workforce that can't think for themselves. A step like this in the video game world is not that surprising. <br>
<br>
It USED to be that you had to think to solve puzzles, complex puzzles, to continue a story - not just finish the game.  This has been diluted over the years to give the end-user more flashy graphics without really challenging them. <br>
<br>
Now imagine if a developer could create mind-bending puzzles that would cause even the most experienced gamer problems - but not alienate the "I'm special" crowd.  It COULD be a great step in the evolution of gaming. <br>
<br>
However, it probably will just be to assist those people that can't even handle the mediocre challenges that we currently see.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Score one for the " Everyone 's special " crowd .
However , this could be good for the regular gamer .
We have an entire generation of employees entering the workforce that ca n't think for themselves .
A step like this in the video game world is not that surprising .
It USED to be that you had to think to solve puzzles , complex puzzles , to continue a story - not just finish the game .
This has been diluted over the years to give the end-user more flashy graphics without really challenging them .
Now imagine if a developer could create mind-bending puzzles that would cause even the most experienced gamer problems - but not alienate the " I 'm special " crowd .
It COULD be a great step in the evolution of gaming .
However , it probably will just be to assist those people that ca n't even handle the mediocre challenges that we currently see .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Score one for the "Everyone's special" crowd.
However, this could be good for the regular gamer.
We have an entire generation of employees entering the workforce that can't think for themselves.
A step like this in the video game world is not that surprising.
It USED to be that you had to think to solve puzzles, complex puzzles, to continue a story - not just finish the game.
This has been diluted over the years to give the end-user more flashy graphics without really challenging them.
Now imagine if a developer could create mind-bending puzzles that would cause even the most experienced gamer problems - but not alienate the "I'm special" crowd.
It COULD be a great step in the evolution of gaming.
However, it probably will just be to assist those people that can't even handle the mediocre challenges that we currently see.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481657</id>
	<title>Re:Finally!</title>
	<author>Logical Zebra</author>
	<datestamp>1246028640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><em>Need for Speed Prostreet</em> already allows you to do just that.  You can play through the entire game to unlock all the cars, or you can pay an extra fee to unlock all the cars at the start.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Need for Speed Prostreet already allows you to do just that .
You can play through the entire game to unlock all the cars , or you can pay an extra fee to unlock all the cars at the start .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Need for Speed Prostreet already allows you to do just that.
You can play through the entire game to unlock all the cars, or you can pay an extra fee to unlock all the cars at the start.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481273</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481235</id>
	<title>Not everyone wants to beat their head on the wall</title>
	<author>rotide</author>
	<datestamp>1246027080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not everyone pays for a game to sit there for hours on little overly difficult segments of the game.<p>
Yes, there is something to be said for overcoming a challenge, but not everyone buys games to be challenged.  Some people buy them to merely have fun with friends and/or family!</p><p>
In my opinion there is more than enough room for both camps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not everyone pays for a game to sit there for hours on little overly difficult segments of the game .
Yes , there is something to be said for overcoming a challenge , but not everyone buys games to be challenged .
Some people buy them to merely have fun with friends and/or family !
In my opinion there is more than enough room for both camps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not everyone pays for a game to sit there for hours on little overly difficult segments of the game.
Yes, there is something to be said for overcoming a challenge, but not everyone buys games to be challenged.
Some people buy them to merely have fun with friends and/or family!
In my opinion there is more than enough room for both camps.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481395</id>
	<title>Re:Say what now?</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1246027680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Let me translate:

<p>Nintendo did something new.  I can't praise it without being labeled a 14m3r fanboi, and I can't criticize it because it'll probably turn out make them even more pots of money and then I'll look like a doofus.  So I'll just talk around the issue to fill the space between these important messages from our sponsors.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let me translate : Nintendo did something new .
I ca n't praise it without being labeled a 14m3r fanboi , and I ca n't criticize it because it 'll probably turn out make them even more pots of money and then I 'll look like a doofus .
So I 'll just talk around the issue to fill the space between these important messages from our sponsors .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let me translate:

Nintendo did something new.
I can't praise it without being labeled a 14m3r fanboi, and I can't criticize it because it'll probably turn out make them even more pots of money and then I'll look like a doofus.
So I'll just talk around the issue to fill the space between these important messages from our sponsors.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481037</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28480985</id>
	<title>Automatic discussion</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246026120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>All posts following this will be generated automatically by slashdot, so you won't need to bother posting.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All posts following this will be generated automatically by slashdot , so you wo n't need to bother posting .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All posts following this will be generated automatically by slashdot, so you won't need to bother posting.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28507683</id>
	<title>Exactly, it is all about sales</title>
	<author>RobertinXinyang</author>
	<datestamp>1246189320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I used to play video games. I stopped. That means I stopped buying games. In simple terms, they got too hard.</p><p>I enjoyed the Baldurs Gate / Icewind Dale series, and the mech-warrior series, along with fallout 1 and 2. However, I haven't even given serious thought to buying fallout 3. I know that to wow the new generation of gamers (and more importantly, game reviewers) it will be unplayable to me. The last games I purchased were Vampire: the masquerade, something with the Clive Barker name attached to it , and Half Life. I never finished any of them. They were simply too hard for me.</p><p>The result is that I stopped buying games; after all, why should I purchase an story that I can not finish. Now some are thinking "wait, those games came out ten years ago." That's right, over ten years of not selling games to me.</p><p>One of the basic principles in purchasing stock in consumer goods manufacturers is that you probably are within the bell curve. If you see there to be a problem a problem with a product, you are probably not alone. I see my friends playing ten year old games instead of new ones. I see a trend. The trend is a lot of people who like games but are not buying new ones.</p><p>Now, I am not saying that this trend is absolute, obviously, there are people buying new games. However, there is a huge untapped market in the people who play games but haven't purchased a game in years. I used to, lightly, tease my wife about pre-purchasing games that hadn't even been released. As it stands, she hasn't purchased a game in years. She enjoys the games she has.</p><p>When you ask this 35+ crowd what happened you keep hearing the same two things: first, they don't have the time, and second, the games have gotten too hard. This is a large market that has literally been lost. They used to purchase the product and they no longer do. To any business, loosing customers that they spent money to get is a disaster. Nintendo is doing the right thing from a business sense.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I used to play video games .
I stopped .
That means I stopped buying games .
In simple terms , they got too hard.I enjoyed the Baldurs Gate / Icewind Dale series , and the mech-warrior series , along with fallout 1 and 2 .
However , I have n't even given serious thought to buying fallout 3 .
I know that to wow the new generation of gamers ( and more importantly , game reviewers ) it will be unplayable to me .
The last games I purchased were Vampire : the masquerade , something with the Clive Barker name attached to it , and Half Life .
I never finished any of them .
They were simply too hard for me.The result is that I stopped buying games ; after all , why should I purchase an story that I can not finish .
Now some are thinking " wait , those games came out ten years ago .
" That 's right , over ten years of not selling games to me.One of the basic principles in purchasing stock in consumer goods manufacturers is that you probably are within the bell curve .
If you see there to be a problem a problem with a product , you are probably not alone .
I see my friends playing ten year old games instead of new ones .
I see a trend .
The trend is a lot of people who like games but are not buying new ones.Now , I am not saying that this trend is absolute , obviously , there are people buying new games .
However , there is a huge untapped market in the people who play games but have n't purchased a game in years .
I used to , lightly , tease my wife about pre-purchasing games that had n't even been released .
As it stands , she has n't purchased a game in years .
She enjoys the games she has.When you ask this 35 + crowd what happened you keep hearing the same two things : first , they do n't have the time , and second , the games have gotten too hard .
This is a large market that has literally been lost .
They used to purchase the product and they no longer do .
To any business , loosing customers that they spent money to get is a disaster .
Nintendo is doing the right thing from a business sense .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I used to play video games.
I stopped.
That means I stopped buying games.
In simple terms, they got too hard.I enjoyed the Baldurs Gate / Icewind Dale series, and the mech-warrior series, along with fallout 1 and 2.
However, I haven't even given serious thought to buying fallout 3.
I know that to wow the new generation of gamers (and more importantly, game reviewers) it will be unplayable to me.
The last games I purchased were Vampire: the masquerade, something with the Clive Barker name attached to it , and Half Life.
I never finished any of them.
They were simply too hard for me.The result is that I stopped buying games; after all, why should I purchase an story that I can not finish.
Now some are thinking "wait, those games came out ten years ago.
" That's right, over ten years of not selling games to me.One of the basic principles in purchasing stock in consumer goods manufacturers is that you probably are within the bell curve.
If you see there to be a problem a problem with a product, you are probably not alone.
I see my friends playing ten year old games instead of new ones.
I see a trend.
The trend is a lot of people who like games but are not buying new ones.Now, I am not saying that this trend is absolute, obviously, there are people buying new games.
However, there is a huge untapped market in the people who play games but haven't purchased a game in years.
I used to, lightly, tease my wife about pre-purchasing games that hadn't even been released.
As it stands, she hasn't purchased a game in years.
She enjoys the games she has.When you ask this 35+ crowd what happened you keep hearing the same two things: first, they don't have the time, and second, the games have gotten too hard.
This is a large market that has literally been lost.
They used to purchase the product and they no longer do.
To any business, loosing customers that they spent money to get is a disaster.
Nintendo is doing the right thing from a business sense.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481085</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481691</id>
	<title>More users allow for further segmentation</title>
	<author>jayme0227</author>
	<datestamp>1246028760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As far as art goes, there's art for everyone. There are extremely simple drawings in children's books and highly abstract pieces for the intellectuals among us, and everything in between. Because the market for art is so large, everyone can find SOMETHING that they like. Hopefully, with a broader audience, video games can achieve the same segmentation. The larger the audience as a whole, the larger the market for niche or fringe type games that wouldn't otherwise stand a chance.</p><p>My only fear is that this will further indoctrinate children that there should always be an easy button. As it is right now, too many kids quit when things get difficult, and this may end exacerbating that trend.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as art goes , there 's art for everyone .
There are extremely simple drawings in children 's books and highly abstract pieces for the intellectuals among us , and everything in between .
Because the market for art is so large , everyone can find SOMETHING that they like .
Hopefully , with a broader audience , video games can achieve the same segmentation .
The larger the audience as a whole , the larger the market for niche or fringe type games that would n't otherwise stand a chance.My only fear is that this will further indoctrinate children that there should always be an easy button .
As it is right now , too many kids quit when things get difficult , and this may end exacerbating that trend .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as art goes, there's art for everyone.
There are extremely simple drawings in children's books and highly abstract pieces for the intellectuals among us, and everything in between.
Because the market for art is so large, everyone can find SOMETHING that they like.
Hopefully, with a broader audience, video games can achieve the same segmentation.
The larger the audience as a whole, the larger the market for niche or fringe type games that wouldn't otherwise stand a chance.My only fear is that this will further indoctrinate children that there should always be an easy button.
As it is right now, too many kids quit when things get difficult, and this may end exacerbating that trend.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484409</id>
	<title>Content locked out is a rip-off</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246037580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In Zelda Wind Waker, I got to a point where I had to swing on ropes and land on barrels. I tried for hours and couldn't do it.  So, I couldn't get past that point, and I traded in the game.  So I don't consider that a good game.  I didn't get to see much of the content THAT I PAID FOR.</p><p>The worst is driving games where you are only allowed to drive a junk car and have to win dozens of almost-impossible races against computer cars, in order to unlock content THAT YOU PAID FOR.  Personally, I think that's consumer fraud.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In Zelda Wind Waker , I got to a point where I had to swing on ropes and land on barrels .
I tried for hours and could n't do it .
So , I could n't get past that point , and I traded in the game .
So I do n't consider that a good game .
I did n't get to see much of the content THAT I PAID FOR.The worst is driving games where you are only allowed to drive a junk car and have to win dozens of almost-impossible races against computer cars , in order to unlock content THAT YOU PAID FOR .
Personally , I think that 's consumer fraud .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In Zelda Wind Waker, I got to a point where I had to swing on ropes and land on barrels.
I tried for hours and couldn't do it.
So, I couldn't get past that point, and I traded in the game.
So I don't consider that a good game.
I didn't get to see much of the content THAT I PAID FOR.The worst is driving games where you are only allowed to drive a junk car and have to win dozens of almost-impossible races against computer cars, in order to unlock content THAT YOU PAID FOR.
Personally, I think that's consumer fraud.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481273</id>
	<title>Re:Finally!</title>
	<author>WDot</author>
	<datestamp>1246027260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One of the most frustrating things with many fighting games are the ridiculously cheap final bosses.  Soul Calibur IV is a recent exception, but I remember many games that required beating the final boss several times to unlock all the game's characters.  This isn't terrible except that final bosses aren't particularly smart AI, they just have lots of cheap moves that make fighting them frustrating.  I don't plan on playing in fighting game tournaments, I just want to mess around in the game with friends with whichever character I choose.
<br> <br>
Honestly, I'd play a few bucks for DLC that simply unlocked all the possible unlockable content: characters, stages, modes, and other goodies instantly.  I remember Guild Wars' PVP component allowed you to pay $10 to unlock all the spells and items instantly.  This worked because Guild Wars PVP was more about skill and strategy than having the "BEST EVER" gear.  Something similar for other games I think would be reasonable.  I wouldn't always pay for it, but in some games I would.</htmltext>
<tokenext>One of the most frustrating things with many fighting games are the ridiculously cheap final bosses .
Soul Calibur IV is a recent exception , but I remember many games that required beating the final boss several times to unlock all the game 's characters .
This is n't terrible except that final bosses are n't particularly smart AI , they just have lots of cheap moves that make fighting them frustrating .
I do n't plan on playing in fighting game tournaments , I just want to mess around in the game with friends with whichever character I choose .
Honestly , I 'd play a few bucks for DLC that simply unlocked all the possible unlockable content : characters , stages , modes , and other goodies instantly .
I remember Guild Wars ' PVP component allowed you to pay $ 10 to unlock all the spells and items instantly .
This worked because Guild Wars PVP was more about skill and strategy than having the " BEST EVER " gear .
Something similar for other games I think would be reasonable .
I would n't always pay for it , but in some games I would .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One of the most frustrating things with many fighting games are the ridiculously cheap final bosses.
Soul Calibur IV is a recent exception, but I remember many games that required beating the final boss several times to unlock all the game's characters.
This isn't terrible except that final bosses aren't particularly smart AI, they just have lots of cheap moves that make fighting them frustrating.
I don't plan on playing in fighting game tournaments, I just want to mess around in the game with friends with whichever character I choose.
Honestly, I'd play a few bucks for DLC that simply unlocked all the possible unlockable content: characters, stages, modes, and other goodies instantly.
I remember Guild Wars' PVP component allowed you to pay $10 to unlock all the spells and items instantly.
This worked because Guild Wars PVP was more about skill and strategy than having the "BEST EVER" gear.
Something similar for other games I think would be reasonable.
I wouldn't always pay for it, but in some games I would.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481559</id>
	<title>Re:Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246028160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>1.) Attract a bigger audience of people to buy your games.<br>2.) Ensure that bigger audience finishes more games.<br>3.) That audience now goes out and buys more games once they finish their current one.<br>4.) Profit.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>1 .
) Attract a bigger audience of people to buy your games.2 .
) Ensure that bigger audience finishes more games.3 .
) That audience now goes out and buys more games once they finish their current one.4 .
) Profit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>1.
) Attract a bigger audience of people to buy your games.2.
) Ensure that bigger audience finishes more games.3.
) That audience now goes out and buys more games once they finish their current one.4.
) Profit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28480957</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28483655</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246034760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Personally, while I enjoy a challenge, I don't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end, and never getting any further. I'll be using the "I'm bored, please let me play the next bit" button sometimes.</i></p><p>What you have a problem with is games being cheap.  The correct solution is for game designers to design better games, not to slap a cheap fix to cover up their cheap ass level design.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally , while I enjoy a challenge , I do n't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end , and never getting any further .
I 'll be using the " I 'm bored , please let me play the next bit " button sometimes.What you have a problem with is games being cheap .
The correct solution is for game designers to design better games , not to slap a cheap fix to cover up their cheap ass level design .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally, while I enjoy a challenge, I don't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end, and never getting any further.
I'll be using the "I'm bored, please let me play the next bit" button sometimes.What you have a problem with is games being cheap.
The correct solution is for game designers to design better games, not to slap a cheap fix to cover up their cheap ass level design.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481177</id>
	<title>Braid?</title>
	<author>2obvious4u</author>
	<datestamp>1246026900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How is this different than everyone's beloved game Braid?  I mean if you messed up you just rewinded and tried again.  Isn't this just the next step?</p><p>I also understand that Braid used it in a unique way that didn't solve the puzzle for you, but at least it kept you from having to start over every time you failed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How is this different than everyone 's beloved game Braid ?
I mean if you messed up you just rewinded and tried again .
Is n't this just the next step ? I also understand that Braid used it in a unique way that did n't solve the puzzle for you , but at least it kept you from having to start over every time you failed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is this different than everyone's beloved game Braid?
I mean if you messed up you just rewinded and tried again.
Isn't this just the next step?I also understand that Braid used it in a unique way that didn't solve the puzzle for you, but at least it kept you from having to start over every time you failed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28480957</id>
	<title>Why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246026060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Bigger audiences finishing more games is certainly a worthy goal"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Bigger audiences finishing more games is certainly a worthy goal "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Bigger audiences finishing more games is certainly a worthy goal"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484519</id>
	<title>Re:Have we forgotten the Game Genie?</title>
	<author>gauauu</author>
	<datestamp>1246038000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Who really beat Contra without the code?</i></p><p>It wasn't really that hard, actually.  A decent gamer should be able to beat the original contra without dying.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Who really beat Contra without the code ? It was n't really that hard , actually .
A decent gamer should be able to beat the original contra without dying .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who really beat Contra without the code?It wasn't really that hard, actually.
A decent gamer should be able to beat the original contra without dying.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481231</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28488493</id>
	<title>Re:Just about the most pretentious quote ever</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246011420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In an art form that is as inherently consumerist as video games, it might not all that stupid.</p><p>We all know that the end aim of companies is to make the most amount of money possible. Why would they continue to compete for the smaller niche markets of the various types of gamers, when they could all target the mass market by diluting their games till its no more than <a href="http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/9/6/" title="penny-arcade.com" rel="nofollow">electronic wanking.</a> [penny-arcade.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In an art form that is as inherently consumerist as video games , it might not all that stupid.We all know that the end aim of companies is to make the most amount of money possible .
Why would they continue to compete for the smaller niche markets of the various types of gamers , when they could all target the mass market by diluting their games till its no more than electronic wanking .
[ penny-arcade.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In an art form that is as inherently consumerist as video games, it might not all that stupid.We all know that the end aim of companies is to make the most amount of money possible.
Why would they continue to compete for the smaller niche markets of the various types of gamers, when they could all target the mass market by diluting their games till its no more than electronic wanking.
[penny-arcade.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481485</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485081</id>
	<title>Elitist attitudes toward art</title>
	<author>goodmanj</author>
	<datestamp>1246039980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Video games will become lame if they become too popular." -- Video game enthusiasts</p><p>Congrats, gamers.  You've now joined the fine art snob, the classical music afficionado, and the indie music twit in the ludicrous belief that nothing's any good if someone else has heard of it.  And ya know what?  Nobody gives a damn what *they* think either.</p><p>Popular things are popular because people appreciate them.  And since art is purely subjective, the only useful way to define good art is to ask, "do lots of people think it's good?"  Anyone who thinks that popularity always leads to a loss of quality or intellectual content has apparently never listened to the Beatles, seen Star Wars, The Matrix or The Godfather, and never watched Lost or the Sopranos.</p><p>Popular art can be good.  Video games are no exception.  Quit whining.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Video games will become lame if they become too popular .
" -- Video game enthusiastsCongrats , gamers .
You 've now joined the fine art snob , the classical music afficionado , and the indie music twit in the ludicrous belief that nothing 's any good if someone else has heard of it .
And ya know what ?
Nobody gives a damn what * they * think either.Popular things are popular because people appreciate them .
And since art is purely subjective , the only useful way to define good art is to ask , " do lots of people think it 's good ?
" Anyone who thinks that popularity always leads to a loss of quality or intellectual content has apparently never listened to the Beatles , seen Star Wars , The Matrix or The Godfather , and never watched Lost or the Sopranos.Popular art can be good .
Video games are no exception .
Quit whining .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Video games will become lame if they become too popular.
" -- Video game enthusiastsCongrats, gamers.
You've now joined the fine art snob, the classical music afficionado, and the indie music twit in the ludicrous belief that nothing's any good if someone else has heard of it.
And ya know what?
Nobody gives a damn what *they* think either.Popular things are popular because people appreciate them.
And since art is purely subjective, the only useful way to define good art is to ask, "do lots of people think it's good?
"  Anyone who thinks that popularity always leads to a loss of quality or intellectual content has apparently never listened to the Beatles, seen Star Wars, The Matrix or The Godfather, and never watched Lost or the Sopranos.Popular art can be good.
Video games are no exception.
Quit whining.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485543</id>
	<title>Re:Finally!</title>
	<author>Darkness404</author>
	<datestamp>1246041780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You mean like some of the cheats here <a href="http://cheats.ign.com/ob2/068/823/823033.html" title="ign.com">http://cheats.ign.com/ob2/068/823/823033.html</a> [ign.com] that include <p><div class="quote"><p> Unlockable: Unlock All

To unlock everything in the game, insert the following code on your guitar at the title screen: Blue, Yellow, Orange, Red, Orange, Yellow, Red, Yellow, Red, Yellow, Red, Yellow.</p> </div><p>

I cant say that it works (don't own the game so I can't check) but Guitar Hero and other "sandbox" games usually have modes like that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You mean like some of the cheats here http : //cheats.ign.com/ob2/068/823/823033.html [ ign.com ] that include Unlockable : Unlock All To unlock everything in the game , insert the following code on your guitar at the title screen : Blue , Yellow , Orange , Red , Orange , Yellow , Red , Yellow , Red , Yellow , Red , Yellow .
I cant say that it works ( do n't own the game so I ca n't check ) but Guitar Hero and other " sandbox " games usually have modes like that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You mean like some of the cheats here http://cheats.ign.com/ob2/068/823/823033.html [ign.com] that include  Unlockable: Unlock All

To unlock everything in the game, insert the following code on your guitar at the title screen: Blue, Yellow, Orange, Red, Orange, Yellow, Red, Yellow, Red, Yellow, Red, Yellow.
I cant say that it works (don't own the game so I can't check) but Guitar Hero and other "sandbox" games usually have modes like that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481323</id>
	<title>So we got an interactive move for a game</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246027440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Seems like it is full circle. It now becomes a book, movie, show what ever you want to call it. You interact with it at some parts but then when you want the story to move along and you do not want to be stuck you let the game play. It is not a bad thing for games it is also not something I would want to use. The fun would definitely be gone for me and other gamers I am sure however the folks that want to have the story over the play would definitely enjoy it. I foresee this leading to many "choose your own adventure" games. Developers would love that as less time would be needed for game control programming. One could reach other "non-traditional" gamers. Replay values would be high but still the play through would be quicker than other games I would think.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Seems like it is full circle .
It now becomes a book , movie , show what ever you want to call it .
You interact with it at some parts but then when you want the story to move along and you do not want to be stuck you let the game play .
It is not a bad thing for games it is also not something I would want to use .
The fun would definitely be gone for me and other gamers I am sure however the folks that want to have the story over the play would definitely enjoy it .
I foresee this leading to many " choose your own adventure " games .
Developers would love that as less time would be needed for game control programming .
One could reach other " non-traditional " gamers .
Replay values would be high but still the play through would be quicker than other games I would think .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seems like it is full circle.
It now becomes a book, movie, show what ever you want to call it.
You interact with it at some parts but then when you want the story to move along and you do not want to be stuck you let the game play.
It is not a bad thing for games it is also not something I would want to use.
The fun would definitely be gone for me and other gamers I am sure however the folks that want to have the story over the play would definitely enjoy it.
I foresee this leading to many "choose your own adventure" games.
Developers would love that as less time would be needed for game control programming.
One could reach other "non-traditional" gamers.
Replay values would be high but still the play through would be quicker than other games I would think.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481037</id>
	<title>Say what now?</title>
	<author>Dachannien</author>
	<datestamp>1246026360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is it just me, or did that quote manage to use a hundred words without actually <i>saying</i> anything?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it just me , or did that quote manage to use a hundred words without actually saying anything ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it just me, or did that quote manage to use a hundred words without actually saying anything?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481013</id>
	<title>Michael Jackon is dead at 50 !</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246026300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just heard some sad news on talk radio - artist and musican Michael Jackson was found dead in his L.A. home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just heard some sad news on talk radio - artist and musican Michael Jackson was found dead in his L.A. home this morning .
There were n't any more details .
I 'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you did n't enjoy his work , there 's no denying his contributions to popular culture .
Truly an American icon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just heard some sad news on talk radio - artist and musican Michael Jackson was found dead in his L.A. home this morning.
There weren't any more details.
I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture.
Truly an American icon.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481149</id>
	<title>It's just ONE GAME...don't sound the alarms yet...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246026780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want a challenge then pick up Starcraft II (when it comes out) or Virua Fighter 5. Learning to be competitive in either of those games will require hundreds of hours of practicing the games, reading about games, watching tournaments and taking notes, or learning maps or matches. Of course the video game 'journalists' are not willing to learn how to get good at RTS or FGs so they instead complain about a game of low difficulty (like Mario Brothers) being made easier. If you want to play games to be challenged try getting good at Starcraft or Virtua Fighter.</p><p>This new Mario Brothers with its auto-level completion (tm) or whatever is not a hardcore game and it's not even a hardcore genre. If you want more difficult platforming try Ratchet &amp; Clank, God of War, or perhaps even Nintendo's own Mario Galaxy. But don't say it's the end of the world for hard games. I doubt those 'journalists' who complain about games not being hard enough for them haven't touched competitive Starcraft or Virtua Fighter or Counter Strike.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want a challenge then pick up Starcraft II ( when it comes out ) or Virua Fighter 5 .
Learning to be competitive in either of those games will require hundreds of hours of practicing the games , reading about games , watching tournaments and taking notes , or learning maps or matches .
Of course the video game 'journalists ' are not willing to learn how to get good at RTS or FGs so they instead complain about a game of low difficulty ( like Mario Brothers ) being made easier .
If you want to play games to be challenged try getting good at Starcraft or Virtua Fighter.This new Mario Brothers with its auto-level completion ( tm ) or whatever is not a hardcore game and it 's not even a hardcore genre .
If you want more difficult platforming try Ratchet &amp; Clank , God of War , or perhaps even Nintendo 's own Mario Galaxy .
But do n't say it 's the end of the world for hard games .
I doubt those 'journalists ' who complain about games not being hard enough for them have n't touched competitive Starcraft or Virtua Fighter or Counter Strike .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want a challenge then pick up Starcraft II (when it comes out) or Virua Fighter 5.
Learning to be competitive in either of those games will require hundreds of hours of practicing the games, reading about games, watching tournaments and taking notes, or learning maps or matches.
Of course the video game 'journalists' are not willing to learn how to get good at RTS or FGs so they instead complain about a game of low difficulty (like Mario Brothers) being made easier.
If you want to play games to be challenged try getting good at Starcraft or Virtua Fighter.This new Mario Brothers with its auto-level completion (tm) or whatever is not a hardcore game and it's not even a hardcore genre.
If you want more difficult platforming try Ratchet &amp; Clank, God of War, or perhaps even Nintendo's own Mario Galaxy.
But don't say it's the end of the world for hard games.
I doubt those 'journalists' who complain about games not being hard enough for them haven't touched competitive Starcraft or Virtua Fighter or Counter Strike.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481819</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>macshit</author>
	<datestamp>1246029180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> <i>Personally, while I enjoy a challenge, I don't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end, and never getting any further. I'll be using the "I'm bored, please let me play the next bit" button sometimes.</i>
</p><p>
Exactly. There was one of the Metroid Prime games where I got to one of the bosses and I had a bitch of a time fighting it. Never did beat it. I spent several hours going through the same routine<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... my ass wiped all over the floor, lather, rinse, repeat. I eventually just gave up. It's a shame too, cos I really liked the game. But putting one part in there that I couldn't get passed ruined the experience for me.</p></div><p> <em>Exactly2</em>!!
</p><p>I gave up Metroid Prime 3 after attempting the same stupid boss like 50 times.  No doubt it was <em>my fault</em> -- I just suck too much, and I'm not very good with the Wii controller -- but I play games for <em>fun</em>, not to brag how hard-core I am.  I know it feels great to finally get past a hard bit after having honed your skills through endless attempts, but sometimes enough is enough.
</p><p>Of course there are alternative approaches:
</p><ol> <li>Dumb down the game generally.  Seems obviously worse, because it takes away the choice from the player, and you <em>know</em> the same people bitching in this story would go insane if they did that.</li><li>Traditional (chosen at game start) difficulty levels.  This gives the player some choice, but it's generally quite a clumsy approach, as it's very hard for a player to estimate beforehand what the appropriate difficulty level is.</li><li>Dynamically switchable difficulty levels.  This is better but no doubt this also would result in bitching by the "no challenge" crowd.</li></ol><p>Anyway, I'm glad they're doing <em>something</em>, because I like games, but I'm not always very good at them!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally , while I enjoy a challenge , I do n't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end , and never getting any further .
I 'll be using the " I 'm bored , please let me play the next bit " button sometimes .
Exactly. There was one of the Metroid Prime games where I got to one of the bosses and I had a bitch of a time fighting it .
Never did beat it .
I spent several hours going through the same routine ... my ass wiped all over the floor , lather , rinse , repeat .
I eventually just gave up .
It 's a shame too , cos I really liked the game .
But putting one part in there that I could n't get passed ruined the experience for me .
Exactly2 ! ! I gave up Metroid Prime 3 after attempting the same stupid boss like 50 times .
No doubt it was my fault -- I just suck too much , and I 'm not very good with the Wii controller -- but I play games for fun , not to brag how hard-core I am .
I know it feels great to finally get past a hard bit after having honed your skills through endless attempts , but sometimes enough is enough .
Of course there are alternative approaches : Dumb down the game generally .
Seems obviously worse , because it takes away the choice from the player , and you know the same people bitching in this story would go insane if they did that.Traditional ( chosen at game start ) difficulty levels .
This gives the player some choice , but it 's generally quite a clumsy approach , as it 's very hard for a player to estimate beforehand what the appropriate difficulty level is.Dynamically switchable difficulty levels .
This is better but no doubt this also would result in bitching by the " no challenge " crowd.Anyway , I 'm glad they 're doing something , because I like games , but I 'm not always very good at them !</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Personally, while I enjoy a challenge, I don't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end, and never getting any further.
I'll be using the "I'm bored, please let me play the next bit" button sometimes.
Exactly. There was one of the Metroid Prime games where I got to one of the bosses and I had a bitch of a time fighting it.
Never did beat it.
I spent several hours going through the same routine ... my ass wiped all over the floor, lather, rinse, repeat.
I eventually just gave up.
It's a shame too, cos I really liked the game.
But putting one part in there that I couldn't get passed ruined the experience for me.
Exactly2!!
I gave up Metroid Prime 3 after attempting the same stupid boss like 50 times.
No doubt it was my fault -- I just suck too much, and I'm not very good with the Wii controller -- but I play games for fun, not to brag how hard-core I am.
I know it feels great to finally get past a hard bit after having honed your skills through endless attempts, but sometimes enough is enough.
Of course there are alternative approaches:
 Dumb down the game generally.
Seems obviously worse, because it takes away the choice from the player, and you know the same people bitching in this story would go insane if they did that.Traditional (chosen at game start) difficulty levels.
This gives the player some choice, but it's generally quite a clumsy approach, as it's very hard for a player to estimate beforehand what the appropriate difficulty level is.Dynamically switchable difficulty levels.
This is better but no doubt this also would result in bitching by the "no challenge" crowd.Anyway, I'm glad they're doing something, because I like games, but I'm not always very good at them!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481537</id>
	<title>Performance vs. Learning</title>
	<author>eagee</author>
	<datestamp>1246028100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's really all about the goals of the player. Personally I'm glad they added this feature - I've always liked the traditional style of mario genre - but because they're so frustrating the only one I ever finished was SMB2/Galaxy. The performance goals were always so steep and never gave me a measure of how I was improving.

This is a nice compromise between the two that'll keep players playing longer. It's better than putting down the controller and giving up - which is what I would normally do by the third "Game Over". Miyamoto made a good call IMHO.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's really all about the goals of the player .
Personally I 'm glad they added this feature - I 've always liked the traditional style of mario genre - but because they 're so frustrating the only one I ever finished was SMB2/Galaxy .
The performance goals were always so steep and never gave me a measure of how I was improving .
This is a nice compromise between the two that 'll keep players playing longer .
It 's better than putting down the controller and giving up - which is what I would normally do by the third " Game Over " .
Miyamoto made a good call IMHO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's really all about the goals of the player.
Personally I'm glad they added this feature - I've always liked the traditional style of mario genre - but because they're so frustrating the only one I ever finished was SMB2/Galaxy.
The performance goals were always so steep and never gave me a measure of how I was improving.
This is a nice compromise between the two that'll keep players playing longer.
It's better than putting down the controller and giving up - which is what I would normally do by the third "Game Over".
Miyamoto made a good call IMHO.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28486079</id>
	<title>and nobody actually reads about this</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246044000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You know, what's ironic is that it DOESN'T play it for you.  It shows you how you can get past it, then rewinds to where it was when you turned the feature on, allowing you to do it yourself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You know , what 's ironic is that it DOES N'T play it for you .
It shows you how you can get past it , then rewinds to where it was when you turned the feature on , allowing you to do it yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You know, what's ironic is that it DOESN'T play it for you.
It shows you how you can get past it, then rewinds to where it was when you turned the feature on, allowing you to do it yourself.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28521751</id>
	<title>Mario Party Fun Trick</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246278960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not wanting to turn this into a post of favourite cheats, but all the Mario Partys (the grammer there doesn't look right but I suppose it is) have an interesting work around.  When I realized that I would need hundreds of stars to open up all the maps and characters, (and therefore many many games and hours) I used the following: start a game, and pause, and make all players computer controlled.  Then go have lunch.  When the game is over, you'll have stars, with no work.  Rinse and repeat.  Why make so many things unlockable?  Can't I just play the game with all the goodies?  If the level, map, or song is that good, shouldn't it be available immediately?  On the flip side, I suppose an adventure game's point is the progressive story and gameplay...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not wanting to turn this into a post of favourite cheats , but all the Mario Partys ( the grammer there does n't look right but I suppose it is ) have an interesting work around .
When I realized that I would need hundreds of stars to open up all the maps and characters , ( and therefore many many games and hours ) I used the following : start a game , and pause , and make all players computer controlled .
Then go have lunch .
When the game is over , you 'll have stars , with no work .
Rinse and repeat .
Why make so many things unlockable ?
Ca n't I just play the game with all the goodies ?
If the level , map , or song is that good , should n't it be available immediately ?
On the flip side , I suppose an adventure game 's point is the progressive story and gameplay.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not wanting to turn this into a post of favourite cheats, but all the Mario Partys (the grammer there doesn't look right but I suppose it is) have an interesting work around.
When I realized that I would need hundreds of stars to open up all the maps and characters, (and therefore many many games and hours) I used the following: start a game, and pause, and make all players computer controlled.
Then go have lunch.
When the game is over, you'll have stars, with no work.
Rinse and repeat.
Why make so many things unlockable?
Can't I just play the game with all the goodies?
If the level, map, or song is that good, shouldn't it be available immediately?
On the flip side, I suppose an adventure game's point is the progressive story and gameplay...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481231</id>
	<title>Have we forgotten the Game Genie?</title>
	<author>xjmrufinix</author>
	<datestamp>1246027080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This masochistic mentality about how challenging video games should be is new to me. As has been mentioned, there have been cheats  as long as there have been difficult games. Who really beat Contra without the code? And considering how many weeks of allowance were sunk into those things, is it really so horrible for a kid to want to see all the levels? All Nintendo is doing is saving kids the trouble of buying Game Genies and typing in the damn codes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This masochistic mentality about how challenging video games should be is new to me .
As has been mentioned , there have been cheats as long as there have been difficult games .
Who really beat Contra without the code ?
And considering how many weeks of allowance were sunk into those things , is it really so horrible for a kid to want to see all the levels ?
All Nintendo is doing is saving kids the trouble of buying Game Genies and typing in the damn codes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This masochistic mentality about how challenging video games should be is new to me.
As has been mentioned, there have been cheats  as long as there have been difficult games.
Who really beat Contra without the code?
And considering how many weeks of allowance were sunk into those things, is it really so horrible for a kid to want to see all the levels?
All Nintendo is doing is saving kids the trouble of buying Game Genies and typing in the damn codes.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>gEvil (beta)</author>
	<datestamp>1246027440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Personally, while I enjoy a challenge, I don't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end, and never getting any further. I'll be using the "I'm bored, please let me play the next bit" button sometimes.</i> <br>
<br>
Exactly. There was one of the Metroid Prime games where I got to one of the bosses and I had a bitch of a time fighting it. Never did beat it. I spent several hours going through the same routine of reloading the game, skipping the cutscene, finding the boss, skipping the next cutscene, starting the battle (this process of just getting to the start of the fight took something like 7 minutes IIRC), fighting for a few minutes, getting my ass wiped all over the floor, lather, rinse, repeat. I eventually just gave up. It's a shame too, cos I really liked the game. But putting one part in there that I couldn't get passed ruined the experience for me. Honestly, I think the best approach is the one where after 3 or 5 failed attempts, the game gives you an option to scale back the difficulty for that fight.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally , while I enjoy a challenge , I do n't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end , and never getting any further .
I 'll be using the " I 'm bored , please let me play the next bit " button sometimes .
Exactly. There was one of the Metroid Prime games where I got to one of the bosses and I had a bitch of a time fighting it .
Never did beat it .
I spent several hours going through the same routine of reloading the game , skipping the cutscene , finding the boss , skipping the next cutscene , starting the battle ( this process of just getting to the start of the fight took something like 7 minutes IIRC ) , fighting for a few minutes , getting my ass wiped all over the floor , lather , rinse , repeat .
I eventually just gave up .
It 's a shame too , cos I really liked the game .
But putting one part in there that I could n't get passed ruined the experience for me .
Honestly , I think the best approach is the one where after 3 or 5 failed attempts , the game gives you an option to scale back the difficulty for that fight .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally, while I enjoy a challenge, I don't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end, and never getting any further.
I'll be using the "I'm bored, please let me play the next bit" button sometimes.
Exactly. There was one of the Metroid Prime games where I got to one of the bosses and I had a bitch of a time fighting it.
Never did beat it.
I spent several hours going through the same routine of reloading the game, skipping the cutscene, finding the boss, skipping the next cutscene, starting the battle (this process of just getting to the start of the fight took something like 7 minutes IIRC), fighting for a few minutes, getting my ass wiped all over the floor, lather, rinse, repeat.
I eventually just gave up.
It's a shame too, cos I really liked the game.
But putting one part in there that I couldn't get passed ruined the experience for me.
Honestly, I think the best approach is the one where after 3 or 5 failed attempts, the game gives you an option to scale back the difficulty for that fight.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487497</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>jizziknight</author>
	<datestamp>1246007220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It didn't happen to be the Boost Ball Guardian in MP2: Echoes, did it? That thing was insanely hard for being that early on in the game, and if you didn't do it exactly right and move around fast enough, you'd die pretty quick. Not to mention you were pretty well constantly losing health due to being in the Dark atmosphere. And I do remember there being quite a bit of running through the level and cutscenes to get to it from the nearest save point.</p><p>I can't think of any in the first game that were that hard. Corruption had some that were hard, but none of them were overly ridiculous until the end. Well, as long as you were playing on the easiest difficulty that is. On the medium and hard difficulties, they got a lot tougher, and the final boss was largely an exercise in luck and endurance on the hardest difficulty.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It did n't happen to be the Boost Ball Guardian in MP2 : Echoes , did it ?
That thing was insanely hard for being that early on in the game , and if you did n't do it exactly right and move around fast enough , you 'd die pretty quick .
Not to mention you were pretty well constantly losing health due to being in the Dark atmosphere .
And I do remember there being quite a bit of running through the level and cutscenes to get to it from the nearest save point.I ca n't think of any in the first game that were that hard .
Corruption had some that were hard , but none of them were overly ridiculous until the end .
Well , as long as you were playing on the easiest difficulty that is .
On the medium and hard difficulties , they got a lot tougher , and the final boss was largely an exercise in luck and endurance on the hardest difficulty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It didn't happen to be the Boost Ball Guardian in MP2: Echoes, did it?
That thing was insanely hard for being that early on in the game, and if you didn't do it exactly right and move around fast enough, you'd die pretty quick.
Not to mention you were pretty well constantly losing health due to being in the Dark atmosphere.
And I do remember there being quite a bit of running through the level and cutscenes to get to it from the nearest save point.I can't think of any in the first game that were that hard.
Corruption had some that were hard, but none of them were overly ridiculous until the end.
Well, as long as you were playing on the easiest difficulty that is.
On the medium and hard difficulties, they got a lot tougher, and the final boss was largely an exercise in luck and endurance on the hardest difficulty.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481999</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>kalirion</author>
	<datestamp>1246029840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can blame <a href="http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/9/6/" title="penny-arcade.com">Penny Arcade</a> [penny-arcade.com] for giving them ideas.  Except their version was more interactive...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can blame Penny Arcade [ penny-arcade.com ] for giving them ideas .
Except their version was more interactive.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can blame Penny Arcade [penny-arcade.com] for giving them ideas.
Except their version was more interactive...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482701</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>AvitarX</author>
	<datestamp>1246031820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>scaled difficulty needs to be done right though.</p><p>Oblivion for example gets harder as you level up at some difficulties.</p><p>Want to beet the game, rush through the required missions before they approach impossible.</p><p>And I am not one for a level treadmill, but for a game with so much content, I really wish they required a little bit of it to complete the main quest.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>scaled difficulty needs to be done right though.Oblivion for example gets harder as you level up at some difficulties.Want to beet the game , rush through the required missions before they approach impossible.And I am not one for a level treadmill , but for a game with so much content , I really wish they required a little bit of it to complete the main quest .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>scaled difficulty needs to be done right though.Oblivion for example gets harder as you level up at some difficulties.Want to beet the game, rush through the required missions before they approach impossible.And I am not one for a level treadmill, but for a game with so much content, I really wish they required a little bit of it to complete the main quest.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481819</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>Jellybob</author>
	<datestamp>1246026960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you want a challenge, don't use it.</p><p>Personally, while I enjoy a challenge, I don't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end, and never getting any further. I'll be using the "I'm bored, please let me play the next bit" button sometimes.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you want a challenge , do n't use it.Personally , while I enjoy a challenge , I do n't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end , and never getting any further .
I 'll be using the " I 'm bored , please let me play the next bit " button sometimes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you want a challenge, don't use it.Personally, while I enjoy a challenge, I don't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end, and never getting any further.
I'll be using the "I'm bored, please let me play the next bit" button sometimes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481049</id>
	<title>I'm waiting for</title>
	<author>Random2</author>
	<datestamp>1246026480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>"Mario does the weekly shopping"
"Peach picks what to wear 20"
"Mario house Party 52"</htmltext>
<tokenext>" Mario does the weekly shopping " " Peach picks what to wear 20 " " Mario house Party 52 "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Mario does the weekly shopping"
"Peach picks what to wear 20"
"Mario house Party 52"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011</id>
	<title>What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>Capeman</author>
	<datestamp>1246026240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In my opinion this eliminates any kind of challenge, if you are stuck, you let the game play itself and that's it, no worries. I remember when I was a kid playing Super Mario Bros on NES, I liked it because it was a challenge, it was difficult and when I was stuck it kept me trying to play more and more to get out of that part instead of letting the game play itself and be bored.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my opinion this eliminates any kind of challenge , if you are stuck , you let the game play itself and that 's it , no worries .
I remember when I was a kid playing Super Mario Bros on NES , I liked it because it was a challenge , it was difficult and when I was stuck it kept me trying to play more and more to get out of that part instead of letting the game play itself and be bored .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my opinion this eliminates any kind of challenge, if you are stuck, you let the game play itself and that's it, no worries.
I remember when I was a kid playing Super Mario Bros on NES, I liked it because it was a challenge, it was difficult and when I was stuck it kept me trying to play more and more to get out of that part instead of letting the game play itself and be bored.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28486161</id>
	<title>Progress Quest</title>
	<author>Fifth Earth</author>
	<datestamp>1246044360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course, this style of gameplay has existed for years in the form of Progress Quest, the fire-and-forget RPG.</p><p><a href="http://www.progressquest.com/" title="progressquest.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.progressquest.com/</a> [progressquest.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course , this style of gameplay has existed for years in the form of Progress Quest , the fire-and-forget RPG.http : //www.progressquest.com/ [ progressquest.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course, this style of gameplay has existed for years in the form of Progress Quest, the fire-and-forget RPG.http://www.progressquest.com/ [progressquest.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485439</id>
	<title>Re:Finally!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246041300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bingo. I paid for GT4 to noodle around with the cars and tracks I bought. I haven't been a kid for decades, and don't have kid-type blocks of time &amp; enthusiasm to devote to "unlocking" everything to do that. Had it been completely clear that all those cool cars and tracks in the game<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/weren't/ available to me, and what highly reduced set was, I wouldn't have bought the game.</p><p>Result: I learned to stop buying titles with locking &amp; without cheatcodes ala DOOM. Nearly everybody I know has a threshold game like that. How is that good for the Game Industry? They've got people <i>who want to buy your games</i> and don't, because they jettisoned the Easy mode that let the casual gamer enjoy the assets.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bingo .
I paid for GT4 to noodle around with the cars and tracks I bought .
I have n't been a kid for decades , and do n't have kid-type blocks of time &amp; enthusiasm to devote to " unlocking " everything to do that .
Had it been completely clear that all those cool cars and tracks in the game /were n't/ available to me , and what highly reduced set was , I would n't have bought the game.Result : I learned to stop buying titles with locking &amp; without cheatcodes ala DOOM .
Nearly everybody I know has a threshold game like that .
How is that good for the Game Industry ?
They 've got people who want to buy your games and do n't , because they jettisoned the Easy mode that let the casual gamer enjoy the assets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bingo.
I paid for GT4 to noodle around with the cars and tracks I bought.
I haven't been a kid for decades, and don't have kid-type blocks of time &amp; enthusiasm to devote to "unlocking" everything to do that.
Had it been completely clear that all those cool cars and tracks in the game /weren't/ available to me, and what highly reduced set was, I wouldn't have bought the game.Result: I learned to stop buying titles with locking &amp; without cheatcodes ala DOOM.
Nearly everybody I know has a threshold game like that.
How is that good for the Game Industry?
They've got people who want to buy your games and don't, because they jettisoned the Easy mode that let the casual gamer enjoy the assets.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28486913</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246048200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you take away the challenge, what is the point of the game? Are you skipping the hard parts so you can see the cut scenes?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you take away the challenge , what is the point of the game ?
Are you skipping the hard parts so you can see the cut scenes ?
; )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you take away the challenge, what is the point of the game?
Are you skipping the hard parts so you can see the cut scenes?
;)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481163</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481191</id>
	<title>All very conventional, it seems</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246026900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <a href="http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Artificial\_Life/Cellular\_Automata/Conway's\_Game\_of\_Life/" title="dmoz.org" rel="nofollow">Conway's "Life"</a> [dmoz.org] plays itself, player pianos play themselves, soccer matches on the TV play themselves (as far as we're concerned) &mdash; what's new here?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Conway 's " Life " [ dmoz.org ] plays itself , player pianos play themselves , soccer matches on the TV play themselves ( as far as we 're concerned )    what 's new here ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Conway's "Life" [dmoz.org] plays itself, player pianos play themselves, soccer matches on the TV play themselves (as far as we're concerned) — what's new here?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482533</id>
	<title>For the children?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246031340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As a parent, these things bother me because I don't see the kids getting an opportunity to be challenged and learn to overcome.  Legos.  We go bowling, and the kids whine if they don't get to use the rails on the side the prevent gutter balls.  We play Legos Star Wars, and they make little effort to avoid the toons getting killed because there is almost no penalty.
<br> <br>
How are they supposed to learn to overcome the frustrations of life if their games offer no frustration?</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a parent , these things bother me because I do n't see the kids getting an opportunity to be challenged and learn to overcome .
Legos. We go bowling , and the kids whine if they do n't get to use the rails on the side the prevent gutter balls .
We play Legos Star Wars , and they make little effort to avoid the toons getting killed because there is almost no penalty .
How are they supposed to learn to overcome the frustrations of life if their games offer no frustration ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a parent, these things bother me because I don't see the kids getting an opportunity to be challenged and learn to overcome.
Legos.  We go bowling, and the kids whine if they don't get to use the rails on the side the prevent gutter balls.
We play Legos Star Wars, and they make little effort to avoid the toons getting killed because there is almost no penalty.
How are they supposed to learn to overcome the frustrations of life if their games offer no frustration?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28492135</id>
	<title>Re:All very conventional, it seems</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246043040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The new thing is, that if you are rooting for a virtual character that only exists on your computer - compared to a corporate soccer team, which at least features real humans - you know that your life has gone down the crapper.</p><p>I find the image of a few friends sitting in front of the TV, cheering Mario as he jumps through the level, waving #1 foam hands and drinking beer slightly irritating.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The new thing is , that if you are rooting for a virtual character that only exists on your computer - compared to a corporate soccer team , which at least features real humans - you know that your life has gone down the crapper.I find the image of a few friends sitting in front of the TV , cheering Mario as he jumps through the level , waving # 1 foam hands and drinking beer slightly irritating .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The new thing is, that if you are rooting for a virtual character that only exists on your computer - compared to a corporate soccer team, which at least features real humans - you know that your life has gone down the crapper.I find the image of a few friends sitting in front of the TV, cheering Mario as he jumps through the level, waving #1 foam hands and drinking beer slightly irritating.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481191</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28483641</id>
	<title>Re:Interest in video games is waning...</title>
	<author>brkello</author>
	<datestamp>1246034760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree with you.  As long as you agree that Democracy is alive and well in Iran.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree with you .
As long as you agree that Democracy is alive and well in Iran .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree with you.
As long as you agree that Democracy is alive and well in Iran.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481085</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28483179</id>
	<title>Progress Quest!</title>
	<author>mac1235</author>
	<datestamp>1246033200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've 'played' it.
<a href="http://www.progressquest.com/" title="progressquest.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.progressquest.com/</a> [progressquest.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've 'played ' it .
http : //www.progressquest.com/ [ progressquest.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've 'played' it.
http://www.progressquest.com/ [progressquest.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28486381</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246045560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is hardly new.  I played fighter games 10 years ago that let you watch two characters battle each other. must be a slow tech day</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is hardly new .
I played fighter games 10 years ago that let you watch two characters battle each other .
must be a slow tech day</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is hardly new.
I played fighter games 10 years ago that let you watch two characters battle each other.
must be a slow tech day</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484427</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>Nukenbar</author>
	<datestamp>1246037700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I believe God of War II had Dynamically switchable difficulty levels.  Another reason that it was such a good game.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe God of War II had Dynamically switchable difficulty levels .
Another reason that it was such a good game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe God of War II had Dynamically switchable difficulty levels.
Another reason that it was such a good game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481819</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481097</id>
	<title>Good Idea</title>
	<author>arthurpaliden</author>
	<datestamp>1246026600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Just because the option is there does not mean you have to use it.  Nothing is makeing you turn it on.  You want the extreem chalenge never use it. However, if because you have a problem pushing the buttons fast enough due to a disability then this feature enables you to enjoy the game.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Just because the option is there does not mean you have to use it .
Nothing is makeing you turn it on .
You want the extreem chalenge never use it .
However , if because you have a problem pushing the buttons fast enough due to a disability then this feature enables you to enjoy the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Just because the option is there does not mean you have to use it.
Nothing is makeing you turn it on.
You want the extreem chalenge never use it.
However, if because you have a problem pushing the buttons fast enough due to a disability then this feature enables you to enjoy the game.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487405</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>petermgreen</author>
	<datestamp>1246006800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>4: make it possible to win by improving your character (whether though leveling up, buying better armor buying better weapons or whatever).</p><p>Many of the Ratchet and clank games did this to a large extent, saving up and buying the ryno (and in later games levelling it up afterwards) would let you defeat the final boss without much skill.</p><p>One big problem I find with both difficutly levels and character improvements is that they usually only affect the fighting aspect of the game. Puzzles and jump chains stay just as difficult regardless of what difficulty level you select or what you do to improve your character.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>4 : make it possible to win by improving your character ( whether though leveling up , buying better armor buying better weapons or whatever ) .Many of the Ratchet and clank games did this to a large extent , saving up and buying the ryno ( and in later games levelling it up afterwards ) would let you defeat the final boss without much skill.One big problem I find with both difficutly levels and character improvements is that they usually only affect the fighting aspect of the game .
Puzzles and jump chains stay just as difficult regardless of what difficulty level you select or what you do to improve your character .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>4: make it possible to win by improving your character (whether though leveling up, buying better armor buying better weapons or whatever).Many of the Ratchet and clank games did this to a large extent, saving up and buying the ryno (and in later games levelling it up afterwards) would let you defeat the final boss without much skill.One big problem I find with both difficutly levels and character improvements is that they usually only affect the fighting aspect of the game.
Puzzles and jump chains stay just as difficult regardless of what difficulty level you select or what you do to improve your character.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481819</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485691</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>TheRaven64</author>
	<datestamp>1246042320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In the specific example the grandparent gave, the solution is simple; don't put stupidly-difficult bosses anywhere other than at the end.  Or, to generalise, have a gentle difficulty curve.  At no point should the game ever go from insanely difficult to much easier.  This is what a boss like this generally does; it's really hard to beat, and the next level is incredibly easy by comparison.  <p>
It's possible to go too far in the other direction too; the end boss of Return to Castle Wolfenstein was so ridiculously easy I tried to make it more of a challenge to defeat it with each weapon in turn, without losing any health (and succeeded, and I'm not that great at FPS games).  </p><p>
The other thing to beware of is grind.  If, at any point, a trivial AI can play the game (e.g. something that just presses the same four buttons in sequence, repeatedly), then remove that bit of the game.  It makes the game shorter, but it makes it more fun.  Blizzard games are the worst at this, but a lot of point-and-click adventures have puzzles which are obvious and just boil down to 'go to this end of the map, then back to this end'.  If playing a game in an emulator that lets you run it at 10x normal speed makes it more fun, you've probably done something wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In the specific example the grandparent gave , the solution is simple ; do n't put stupidly-difficult bosses anywhere other than at the end .
Or , to generalise , have a gentle difficulty curve .
At no point should the game ever go from insanely difficult to much easier .
This is what a boss like this generally does ; it 's really hard to beat , and the next level is incredibly easy by comparison .
It 's possible to go too far in the other direction too ; the end boss of Return to Castle Wolfenstein was so ridiculously easy I tried to make it more of a challenge to defeat it with each weapon in turn , without losing any health ( and succeeded , and I 'm not that great at FPS games ) .
The other thing to beware of is grind .
If , at any point , a trivial AI can play the game ( e.g .
something that just presses the same four buttons in sequence , repeatedly ) , then remove that bit of the game .
It makes the game shorter , but it makes it more fun .
Blizzard games are the worst at this , but a lot of point-and-click adventures have puzzles which are obvious and just boil down to 'go to this end of the map , then back to this end' .
If playing a game in an emulator that lets you run it at 10x normal speed makes it more fun , you 've probably done something wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In the specific example the grandparent gave, the solution is simple; don't put stupidly-difficult bosses anywhere other than at the end.
Or, to generalise, have a gentle difficulty curve.
At no point should the game ever go from insanely difficult to much easier.
This is what a boss like this generally does; it's really hard to beat, and the next level is incredibly easy by comparison.
It's possible to go too far in the other direction too; the end boss of Return to Castle Wolfenstein was so ridiculously easy I tried to make it more of a challenge to defeat it with each weapon in turn, without losing any health (and succeeded, and I'm not that great at FPS games).
The other thing to beware of is grind.
If, at any point, a trivial AI can play the game (e.g.
something that just presses the same four buttons in sequence, repeatedly), then remove that bit of the game.
It makes the game shorter, but it makes it more fun.
Blizzard games are the worst at this, but a lot of point-and-click adventures have puzzles which are obvious and just boil down to 'go to this end of the map, then back to this end'.
If playing a game in an emulator that lets you run it at 10x normal speed makes it more fun, you've probably done something wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481819</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481609</id>
	<title>Re:Finally!</title>
	<author>subsonic</author>
	<datestamp>1246028340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think TFA cuts to the heart of my problem with Nintendo- their grab for marketshare seems to be at the expense of what makes videogames special.  They are making the system and software more and more commodified.  The game is a pacifier, rather than engager.  And that's the point of games, to engage the player.  I would never sit through a ten hour movie, but I've sat in front of Fallout 3 for nights on end, and blinked by dry eyes realizing I had been wandering the wastelands for hours on end.</p><p>The ironic thing is that at least in the past, Nintendo (or its close developer counterparts) have been very adept at balancing challenge and accessibility.  Mario Bros. wouldn't have originally been so successful if it was just hard (go play Defender or Robotron if you want an old school ass whooping).  This is the lazy approach to game design.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think TFA cuts to the heart of my problem with Nintendo- their grab for marketshare seems to be at the expense of what makes videogames special .
They are making the system and software more and more commodified .
The game is a pacifier , rather than engager .
And that 's the point of games , to engage the player .
I would never sit through a ten hour movie , but I 've sat in front of Fallout 3 for nights on end , and blinked by dry eyes realizing I had been wandering the wastelands for hours on end.The ironic thing is that at least in the past , Nintendo ( or its close developer counterparts ) have been very adept at balancing challenge and accessibility .
Mario Bros. would n't have originally been so successful if it was just hard ( go play Defender or Robotron if you want an old school ass whooping ) .
This is the lazy approach to game design .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think TFA cuts to the heart of my problem with Nintendo- their grab for marketshare seems to be at the expense of what makes videogames special.
They are making the system and software more and more commodified.
The game is a pacifier, rather than engager.
And that's the point of games, to engage the player.
I would never sit through a ten hour movie, but I've sat in front of Fallout 3 for nights on end, and blinked by dry eyes realizing I had been wandering the wastelands for hours on end.The ironic thing is that at least in the past, Nintendo (or its close developer counterparts) have been very adept at balancing challenge and accessibility.
Mario Bros. wouldn't have originally been so successful if it was just hard (go play Defender or Robotron if you want an old school ass whooping).
This is the lazy approach to game design.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28488071</id>
	<title>Duuuuuuude</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246009800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wish more games had this feature,  just sit back, spark up, and watch a "movie".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I wish more games had this feature , just sit back , spark up , and watch a " movie " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wish more games had this feature,  just sit back, spark up, and watch a "movie".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28483097</id>
	<title>Online play</title>
	<author>alain\_delon</author>
	<datestamp>1246033020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>This is more symptomatic of the rising ubiquity of on-line play than the degradation of the medium.  In the past, beating the game was the only verifiable accomplishment and source for bragging rights.  These days, with XBox achievements, PS3 trophies and whatnot - there is much more fine structure to what you accomplish in a game.

It is fine if there is a self-play option for the first-time gamers, as long as there are hard modes and special challenges for experienced gamers to show off their skills with.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is more symptomatic of the rising ubiquity of on-line play than the degradation of the medium .
In the past , beating the game was the only verifiable accomplishment and source for bragging rights .
These days , with XBox achievements , PS3 trophies and whatnot - there is much more fine structure to what you accomplish in a game .
It is fine if there is a self-play option for the first-time gamers , as long as there are hard modes and special challenges for experienced gamers to show off their skills with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is more symptomatic of the rising ubiquity of on-line play than the degradation of the medium.
In the past, beating the game was the only verifiable accomplishment and source for bragging rights.
These days, with XBox achievements, PS3 trophies and whatnot - there is much more fine structure to what you accomplish in a game.
It is fine if there is a self-play option for the first-time gamers, as long as there are hard modes and special challenges for experienced gamers to show off their skills with.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28483703</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1246034940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>There was one of the Metroid Prime games where I got to one of the bosses and I had a bitch of a time fighting it. Never did beat it. I spent several hours going through the same routine of reloading the game, skipping the cutscene, finding the boss, skipping the next cutscene, starting the battle (this process of just getting to the start of the fight took something like 7 minutes IIRC</i></p><p>I agree this sucks, but it would have been much better if it saved right before the boss.  There's no reason to force someone to go through an entire level again, or even watch a cutscene twice.  If they had just put in a save point, practicing against that boss would have been a lot more fun, and you probably would have beat it eventually.  Letting the game play itself is the wrong solution to this problem.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There was one of the Metroid Prime games where I got to one of the bosses and I had a bitch of a time fighting it .
Never did beat it .
I spent several hours going through the same routine of reloading the game , skipping the cutscene , finding the boss , skipping the next cutscene , starting the battle ( this process of just getting to the start of the fight took something like 7 minutes IIRCI agree this sucks , but it would have been much better if it saved right before the boss .
There 's no reason to force someone to go through an entire level again , or even watch a cutscene twice .
If they had just put in a save point , practicing against that boss would have been a lot more fun , and you probably would have beat it eventually .
Letting the game play itself is the wrong solution to this problem .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There was one of the Metroid Prime games where I got to one of the bosses and I had a bitch of a time fighting it.
Never did beat it.
I spent several hours going through the same routine of reloading the game, skipping the cutscene, finding the boss, skipping the next cutscene, starting the battle (this process of just getting to the start of the fight took something like 7 minutes IIRCI agree this sucks, but it would have been much better if it saved right before the boss.
There's no reason to force someone to go through an entire level again, or even watch a cutscene twice.
If they had just put in a save point, practicing against that boss would have been a lot more fun, and you probably would have beat it eventually.
Letting the game play itself is the wrong solution to this problem.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481473</id>
	<title>Re:This is new?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246027980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My main issue is that it's an advertised feature. It lowers the skill bar across the board. It makes the game more of an interactive movie than a puzzle or hand-eye coordination challenge.</p><p>I'm the <a href="http://xkcd.com/359/" title="xkcd.com" rel="nofollow">grumpy person on the left side of the frame</a> [xkcd.com]. I can appreciate that this feature may make the game more fun for some people, but at the same time it feels like we're getting further from the challenging gameplay which I grew up and loved. I feel that it's just a cash grab. I feel that the art of challenging games is disappearing. I feel like they're just pandering to the masses.</p><p>But I'm just a get-off-of-my-lawn type of person. When music changed, there always were old people complaining about how the new stuff isn't as good as the old stuff. Same with cars, food, customer service, airline flights, etc... It's just human nature.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My main issue is that it 's an advertised feature .
It lowers the skill bar across the board .
It makes the game more of an interactive movie than a puzzle or hand-eye coordination challenge.I 'm the grumpy person on the left side of the frame [ xkcd.com ] .
I can appreciate that this feature may make the game more fun for some people , but at the same time it feels like we 're getting further from the challenging gameplay which I grew up and loved .
I feel that it 's just a cash grab .
I feel that the art of challenging games is disappearing .
I feel like they 're just pandering to the masses.But I 'm just a get-off-of-my-lawn type of person .
When music changed , there always were old people complaining about how the new stuff is n't as good as the old stuff .
Same with cars , food , customer service , airline flights , etc... It 's just human nature .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My main issue is that it's an advertised feature.
It lowers the skill bar across the board.
It makes the game more of an interactive movie than a puzzle or hand-eye coordination challenge.I'm the grumpy person on the left side of the frame [xkcd.com].
I can appreciate that this feature may make the game more fun for some people, but at the same time it feels like we're getting further from the challenging gameplay which I grew up and loved.
I feel that it's just a cash grab.
I feel that the art of challenging games is disappearing.
I feel like they're just pandering to the masses.But I'm just a get-off-of-my-lawn type of person.
When music changed, there always were old people complaining about how the new stuff isn't as good as the old stuff.
Same with cars, food, customer service, airline flights, etc... It's just human nature.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487105</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>Jason Quinn</author>
	<datestamp>1246049100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I can't believe I just read that. Tampons are in Aisle 3.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't believe I just read that .
Tampons are in Aisle 3 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't believe I just read that.
Tampons are in Aisle 3.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481549</id>
	<title>Re:This is new?</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1246028160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can see one significant difference.  If you use a (heheh) "secret" cheat to get through a section, you didn't didn't learn how to play through it yourself.

</p><p>If you watch the game play itself through that section, you can at least go back and attempt it yourself now that you know how.

</p><p>In that respect, it's much like the walkthrough videos that YouTube is replete with.  You know, an actual "trainer", rather than a God mode.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I can see one significant difference .
If you use a ( heheh ) " secret " cheat to get through a section , you did n't did n't learn how to play through it yourself .
If you watch the game play itself through that section , you can at least go back and attempt it yourself now that you know how .
In that respect , it 's much like the walkthrough videos that YouTube is replete with .
You know , an actual " trainer " , rather than a God mode .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can see one significant difference.
If you use a (heheh) "secret" cheat to get through a section, you didn't didn't learn how to play through it yourself.
If you watch the game play itself through that section, you can at least go back and attempt it yourself now that you know how.
In that respect, it's much like the walkthrough videos that YouTube is replete with.
You know, an actual "trainer", rather than a God mode.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482721</id>
	<title>Spore, anyone?</title>
	<author>odin84gk</author>
	<datestamp>1246031820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"...taking accessibility a step too far in their rush to attract people who don't typically play video games..." Reminds me of a game called Spore. While it may have sold a lot of units, many people here would agree with me when I say this: I want my money back!</htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...taking accessibility a step too far in their rush to attract people who do n't typically play video games... " Reminds me of a game called Spore .
While it may have sold a lot of units , many people here would agree with me when I say this : I want my money back !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...taking accessibility a step too far in their rush to attract people who don't typically play video games..." Reminds me of a game called Spore.
While it may have sold a lot of units, many people here would agree with me when I say this: I want my money back!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481927</id>
	<title>Re:Why?</title>
	<author>wjousts</author>
	<datestamp>1246029600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think it makes sense from a business point of view rather than from a gaming point of view. From a business point of view, does it make sense to invest money and resources in making a really great, memorable ending to an epic game, when most casual players will move on to something else before they get there? Or does it make more sense to make shorter games that can be finished in a dozen hours or so and take the time saved to make another sequel?</p><p>As a gamer who enjoys epic games, it makes me sad. But it's a reality for business of games, especially as the hardcore gamers become a less significant portion of your customer base.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think it makes sense from a business point of view rather than from a gaming point of view .
From a business point of view , does it make sense to invest money and resources in making a really great , memorable ending to an epic game , when most casual players will move on to something else before they get there ?
Or does it make more sense to make shorter games that can be finished in a dozen hours or so and take the time saved to make another sequel ? As a gamer who enjoys epic games , it makes me sad .
But it 's a reality for business of games , especially as the hardcore gamers become a less significant portion of your customer base .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think it makes sense from a business point of view rather than from a gaming point of view.
From a business point of view, does it make sense to invest money and resources in making a really great, memorable ending to an epic game, when most casual players will move on to something else before they get there?
Or does it make more sense to make shorter games that can be finished in a dozen hours or so and take the time saved to make another sequel?As a gamer who enjoys epic games, it makes me sad.
But it's a reality for business of games, especially as the hardcore gamers become a less significant portion of your customer base.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28480957</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482083</id>
	<title>Re:Finally!</title>
	<author>pgbrandao</author>
	<datestamp>1246030080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>'Bro, that's what cheats are for.<br><br>Some people, including myself, enjoy to actually experience the game. That certainly includes the challenge (and sometimes frustration) of having to unlock parts of the game.</htmltext>
<tokenext>'Bro , that 's what cheats are for.Some people , including myself , enjoy to actually experience the game .
That certainly includes the challenge ( and sometimes frustration ) of having to unlock parts of the game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>'Bro, that's what cheats are for.Some people, including myself, enjoy to actually experience the game.
That certainly includes the challenge (and sometimes frustration) of having to unlock parts of the game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482965</id>
	<title>They should just make a movie ...</title>
	<author>sammyF70</author>
	<datestamp>1246032540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>and get rid of that pesky "game" thing. It was just getting in the way anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>and get rid of that pesky " game " thing .
It was just getting in the way anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>and get rid of that pesky "game" thing.
It was just getting in the way anyway.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481575</id>
	<title>God Mode</title>
	<author>Mr. Underbridge</author>
	<datestamp>1246028220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is no different than old-school games (ie, the ones I played growing up) like Wolfenstein or Doom, each of which had a "God mode" which everybody knew.  Those codes would give you invulnerability and/or unlimited ammo.
</p><p>Sometimes it was fun just to use them and just go berserk, but one of the main uses of them was to get through portions of the game that you simply couldn't beat.  I used them occasionally when I was just unable to beat some monster.  As such, those codes (which have been used in many games by many gamers) are no different than the current feature in Mario, except that it's more interactive.
</p><p>I've favored games that automatically level the difficulty level so the user still does all the action rather than watching it.  That's easier with combat style games than it is for platform-style games.  Maybe they need ways of making the *physics* more forgiving as well - say make Mario jump farther/higher, have something rescue you if you fall, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is no different than old-school games ( ie , the ones I played growing up ) like Wolfenstein or Doom , each of which had a " God mode " which everybody knew .
Those codes would give you invulnerability and/or unlimited ammo .
Sometimes it was fun just to use them and just go berserk , but one of the main uses of them was to get through portions of the game that you simply could n't beat .
I used them occasionally when I was just unable to beat some monster .
As such , those codes ( which have been used in many games by many gamers ) are no different than the current feature in Mario , except that it 's more interactive .
I 've favored games that automatically level the difficulty level so the user still does all the action rather than watching it .
That 's easier with combat style games than it is for platform-style games .
Maybe they need ways of making the * physics * more forgiving as well - say make Mario jump farther/higher , have something rescue you if you fall , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is no different than old-school games (ie, the ones I played growing up) like Wolfenstein or Doom, each of which had a "God mode" which everybody knew.
Those codes would give you invulnerability and/or unlimited ammo.
Sometimes it was fun just to use them and just go berserk, but one of the main uses of them was to get through portions of the game that you simply couldn't beat.
I used them occasionally when I was just unable to beat some monster.
As such, those codes (which have been used in many games by many gamers) are no different than the current feature in Mario, except that it's more interactive.
I've favored games that automatically level the difficulty level so the user still does all the action rather than watching it.
That's easier with combat style games than it is for platform-style games.
Maybe they need ways of making the *physics* more forgiving as well - say make Mario jump farther/higher, have something rescue you if you fall, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487689</id>
	<title>Re:This is new?</title>
	<author>Reapy</author>
	<datestamp>1246007940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Thanks for saying this. I was going to but I figured someone would point out the obvious. IDDQD, IDKFA , up up down down left right left right ab select start, whatever. As a kid I never played civ without a money cheat pegged on. I played star control with unlimited fuel so I could fill the screen with ammo. I didn't learn to play those games "correctly". I saw the same content someone else who spent hours mastering contra did.</p><p>And you know what...</p><p>I don't care. I think it is really sad that people are upset that someone didn't learn how to beat a level in mario. Talk about asinine things to worry about. Single player game = fun the way you want, cheats or no.</p><p>If you want the game hard, play it hard. Every game can be played in a hard mode if you self limit yourself. If you CANT stop yourself from using the 'autoplay' feature, then you know what, stop lieing to yourself and everyone around you about wanting a challenge, because if you really wanted one, you wouldn't 'cheat'.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/grumble grumble at people worrying about "today's youth". You know what, you guys all sound like your freaken parents. Seriously when they told you the worlds going to crap, and you rolled your eyes, and you turned out fine, now as you get older the younger generation isn't like ours, and boo freaken who, the world is going to shit, kids these days!! Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to becoming your parents.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Thanks for saying this .
I was going to but I figured someone would point out the obvious .
IDDQD , IDKFA , up up down down left right left right ab select start , whatever .
As a kid I never played civ without a money cheat pegged on .
I played star control with unlimited fuel so I could fill the screen with ammo .
I did n't learn to play those games " correctly " .
I saw the same content someone else who spent hours mastering contra did.And you know what...I do n't care .
I think it is really sad that people are upset that someone did n't learn how to beat a level in mario .
Talk about asinine things to worry about .
Single player game = fun the way you want , cheats or no.If you want the game hard , play it hard .
Every game can be played in a hard mode if you self limit yourself .
If you CANT stop yourself from using the 'autoplay ' feature , then you know what , stop lieing to yourself and everyone around you about wanting a challenge , because if you really wanted one , you would n't 'cheat' .
/grumble grumble at people worrying about " today 's youth " .
You know what , you guys all sound like your freaken parents .
Seriously when they told you the worlds going to crap , and you rolled your eyes , and you turned out fine , now as you get older the younger generation is n't like ours , and boo freaken who , the world is going to shit , kids these days ! !
Ladies and Gentlemen , welcome to becoming your parents .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Thanks for saying this.
I was going to but I figured someone would point out the obvious.
IDDQD, IDKFA , up up down down left right left right ab select start, whatever.
As a kid I never played civ without a money cheat pegged on.
I played star control with unlimited fuel so I could fill the screen with ammo.
I didn't learn to play those games "correctly".
I saw the same content someone else who spent hours mastering contra did.And you know what...I don't care.
I think it is really sad that people are upset that someone didn't learn how to beat a level in mario.
Talk about asinine things to worry about.
Single player game = fun the way you want, cheats or no.If you want the game hard, play it hard.
Every game can be played in a hard mode if you self limit yourself.
If you CANT stop yourself from using the 'autoplay' feature, then you know what, stop lieing to yourself and everyone around you about wanting a challenge, because if you really wanted one, you wouldn't 'cheat'.
/grumble grumble at people worrying about "today's youth".
You know what, you guys all sound like your freaken parents.
Seriously when they told you the worlds going to crap, and you rolled your eyes, and you turned out fine, now as you get older the younger generation isn't like ours, and boo freaken who, the world is going to shit, kids these days!!
Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to becoming your parents.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487785</id>
	<title>Zone of the Enders 2 as proof this is a good idea</title>
	<author>CelticWhisper</author>
	<datestamp>1246008420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>For some reason Slashdot doesn't want to accept HTML properly today, so I apologize in advance for the lack of line breaks between my paragraphs.

<p>Zone of the Enders 2 (PS2, 2003) was and is a great action game.  It was a marked improvement over its predecessor, felt more like a finished product than a proof of concept (you could tell they were testing the waters with the first installment) and was generally a blast to play.</p><p>And I only ever play half of it.</p><p>Because about halfway through the game there's a boss battle that is so infuriatingly difficult that it outright removes any desire I have to play the game anymore, at all.  This is despite my knowing full well that the best parts of the game take place after this battle.  I've finished the game once or twice but don't have the patience to do so anymore because of this idiotic difficulty spike.  What's worse is that on subsequent playthroughs, wherein you have the option of keeping your superpowered robot from the first playthrough, the fight actually gets <i>harder</i> as a direct result of your power increase.</p><p>With a feature like this, the battle could've been a minor annoyance or just an opportunity to grab a drink while the game takes care of itself.  As it is, however, it's resulted in my avoiding like the plague anything with Hideo Kojima's name anywhere near it.  Having played Lunar Knights briefly on the DS, I feel most certainly justified in my avoidance of his games as it has similarly impassable and fun-killing parts as well.</p><p>As I said in a previous post on a similar topic, does this make me "lame" or "not hardcore?"  Fine.  <i>Good</i>, even.  I'm <i>glad</i> to be called "casual" if that's the case.  I don't feel like dealing with hypertension arising from idiotic game design anymore.  I had enough of that shit in my teens, I don't need it now.</p><p>Same goes for the despicable practice of including "unlockables" in games.  I don't care if it enhances a single-player experience.  <i>My</i> ideal single-player experience entails doing what the hell I want with the game I bought and paid for.  Bought a racing game?  Cool, let me race the "bonus" rocket-powered flying car as the very first thing I do.  Bought an FPS?  Give me the BFG from the get-go if I want it.  Bought a quirky JRPG like Ar Tonelico with conspicuously attractive female characters?  Bring on the priestess/healer's skimpy lingerie outfit already.  These things are all going to be witnessed anyway, and it feels like a ripoff to have the game's +10 radiant pack of tasty doom available only for the last half-hour of gameplay when it hardly does any good anymore.  Because I'm realizing something, however slowly, as I age.  Games are often a metaphor for life, or they can be.  People get kicked around and treated like shit in life a lot of the time.  It's certainly a reality of office work if nothing else.  It's therapeutic to be able to come home, fire up a game, and absolutely crush the opposition without the opposition having a snowball's chance in hell of stopping you.  At some level, subconsciously, you're crushing the people who mistreated you earlier that day and taking out aggressions.  It's the very reason that violent videogames <i>reduce</i> the likelihood of actual violent behavior.  It's the "save haven" argument in action.  So to be told "no" by a game because I haven't proved to it that I love it enough to be deserving of the +10 ball o' awesome is just another perceived injustice that elevates blood pressure and worsens mood.  Attention, game.  I paid for you, I bought you, you are my property.  <i>You don't tell me "no."</i> </p><p>The only kinds of games where I can even remotely see it as being justifiable to limit resources are strategy games, since figuring out how to operate with limited resources is kind of the point of the game itself.  But even then it's questionable, and I'd still prefer to have a big, bright "I just had a shitty day at work, unlock the nukes, release the hounds, cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war" button ready for the cli</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>For some reason Slashdot does n't want to accept HTML properly today , so I apologize in advance for the lack of line breaks between my paragraphs .
Zone of the Enders 2 ( PS2 , 2003 ) was and is a great action game .
It was a marked improvement over its predecessor , felt more like a finished product than a proof of concept ( you could tell they were testing the waters with the first installment ) and was generally a blast to play.And I only ever play half of it.Because about halfway through the game there 's a boss battle that is so infuriatingly difficult that it outright removes any desire I have to play the game anymore , at all .
This is despite my knowing full well that the best parts of the game take place after this battle .
I 've finished the game once or twice but do n't have the patience to do so anymore because of this idiotic difficulty spike .
What 's worse is that on subsequent playthroughs , wherein you have the option of keeping your superpowered robot from the first playthrough , the fight actually gets harder as a direct result of your power increase.With a feature like this , the battle could 've been a minor annoyance or just an opportunity to grab a drink while the game takes care of itself .
As it is , however , it 's resulted in my avoiding like the plague anything with Hideo Kojima 's name anywhere near it .
Having played Lunar Knights briefly on the DS , I feel most certainly justified in my avoidance of his games as it has similarly impassable and fun-killing parts as well.As I said in a previous post on a similar topic , does this make me " lame " or " not hardcore ?
" Fine .
Good , even .
I 'm glad to be called " casual " if that 's the case .
I do n't feel like dealing with hypertension arising from idiotic game design anymore .
I had enough of that shit in my teens , I do n't need it now.Same goes for the despicable practice of including " unlockables " in games .
I do n't care if it enhances a single-player experience .
My ideal single-player experience entails doing what the hell I want with the game I bought and paid for .
Bought a racing game ?
Cool , let me race the " bonus " rocket-powered flying car as the very first thing I do .
Bought an FPS ?
Give me the BFG from the get-go if I want it .
Bought a quirky JRPG like Ar Tonelico with conspicuously attractive female characters ?
Bring on the priestess/healer 's skimpy lingerie outfit already .
These things are all going to be witnessed anyway , and it feels like a ripoff to have the game 's + 10 radiant pack of tasty doom available only for the last half-hour of gameplay when it hardly does any good anymore .
Because I 'm realizing something , however slowly , as I age .
Games are often a metaphor for life , or they can be .
People get kicked around and treated like shit in life a lot of the time .
It 's certainly a reality of office work if nothing else .
It 's therapeutic to be able to come home , fire up a game , and absolutely crush the opposition without the opposition having a snowball 's chance in hell of stopping you .
At some level , subconsciously , you 're crushing the people who mistreated you earlier that day and taking out aggressions .
It 's the very reason that violent videogames reduce the likelihood of actual violent behavior .
It 's the " save haven " argument in action .
So to be told " no " by a game because I have n't proved to it that I love it enough to be deserving of the + 10 ball o ' awesome is just another perceived injustice that elevates blood pressure and worsens mood .
Attention , game .
I paid for you , I bought you , you are my property .
You do n't tell me " no .
" The only kinds of games where I can even remotely see it as being justifiable to limit resources are strategy games , since figuring out how to operate with limited resources is kind of the point of the game itself .
But even then it 's questionable , and I 'd still prefer to have a big , bright " I just had a shitty day at work , unlock the nukes , release the hounds , cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war " button ready for the cli</tokentext>
<sentencetext>For some reason Slashdot doesn't want to accept HTML properly today, so I apologize in advance for the lack of line breaks between my paragraphs.
Zone of the Enders 2 (PS2, 2003) was and is a great action game.
It was a marked improvement over its predecessor, felt more like a finished product than a proof of concept (you could tell they were testing the waters with the first installment) and was generally a blast to play.And I only ever play half of it.Because about halfway through the game there's a boss battle that is so infuriatingly difficult that it outright removes any desire I have to play the game anymore, at all.
This is despite my knowing full well that the best parts of the game take place after this battle.
I've finished the game once or twice but don't have the patience to do so anymore because of this idiotic difficulty spike.
What's worse is that on subsequent playthroughs, wherein you have the option of keeping your superpowered robot from the first playthrough, the fight actually gets harder as a direct result of your power increase.With a feature like this, the battle could've been a minor annoyance or just an opportunity to grab a drink while the game takes care of itself.
As it is, however, it's resulted in my avoiding like the plague anything with Hideo Kojima's name anywhere near it.
Having played Lunar Knights briefly on the DS, I feel most certainly justified in my avoidance of his games as it has similarly impassable and fun-killing parts as well.As I said in a previous post on a similar topic, does this make me "lame" or "not hardcore?
"  Fine.
Good, even.
I'm glad to be called "casual" if that's the case.
I don't feel like dealing with hypertension arising from idiotic game design anymore.
I had enough of that shit in my teens, I don't need it now.Same goes for the despicable practice of including "unlockables" in games.
I don't care if it enhances a single-player experience.
My ideal single-player experience entails doing what the hell I want with the game I bought and paid for.
Bought a racing game?
Cool, let me race the "bonus" rocket-powered flying car as the very first thing I do.
Bought an FPS?
Give me the BFG from the get-go if I want it.
Bought a quirky JRPG like Ar Tonelico with conspicuously attractive female characters?
Bring on the priestess/healer's skimpy lingerie outfit already.
These things are all going to be witnessed anyway, and it feels like a ripoff to have the game's +10 radiant pack of tasty doom available only for the last half-hour of gameplay when it hardly does any good anymore.
Because I'm realizing something, however slowly, as I age.
Games are often a metaphor for life, or they can be.
People get kicked around and treated like shit in life a lot of the time.
It's certainly a reality of office work if nothing else.
It's therapeutic to be able to come home, fire up a game, and absolutely crush the opposition without the opposition having a snowball's chance in hell of stopping you.
At some level, subconsciously, you're crushing the people who mistreated you earlier that day and taking out aggressions.
It's the very reason that violent videogames reduce the likelihood of actual violent behavior.
It's the "save haven" argument in action.
So to be told "no" by a game because I haven't proved to it that I love it enough to be deserving of the +10 ball o' awesome is just another perceived injustice that elevates blood pressure and worsens mood.
Attention, game.
I paid for you, I bought you, you are my property.
You don't tell me "no.
" The only kinds of games where I can even remotely see it as being justifiable to limit resources are strategy games, since figuring out how to operate with limited resources is kind of the point of the game itself.
But even then it's questionable, and I'd still prefer to have a big, bright "I just had a shitty day at work, unlock the nukes, release the hounds, cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war" button ready for the cli</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045</id>
	<title>This is new?</title>
	<author>Andruil</author>
	<datestamp>1246026420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>So... As near as I remember ever single player game used to come with a whole slew of "Cheats" to be used by whoever, whenever and for any reason.  Commander Keen had things like screen clipping where you could fly through the walls in the level, or fly mode.  Age of Empires had things where you could turn the birds into dragons, get babies on tricycles with shotguns or cars with heavy weaponry.  Since when is this new?  Heck I remember some games having an "I win" button.  Can anyone tell me how this is different from the age old era of 286 and 386 video games?

Heck now that I think about it, what about game sharks and other such devices designed to unlock cheats in the game?  up up down down left right left right a b b a.</htmltext>
<tokenext>So... As near as I remember ever single player game used to come with a whole slew of " Cheats " to be used by whoever , whenever and for any reason .
Commander Keen had things like screen clipping where you could fly through the walls in the level , or fly mode .
Age of Empires had things where you could turn the birds into dragons , get babies on tricycles with shotguns or cars with heavy weaponry .
Since when is this new ?
Heck I remember some games having an " I win " button .
Can anyone tell me how this is different from the age old era of 286 and 386 video games ?
Heck now that I think about it , what about game sharks and other such devices designed to unlock cheats in the game ?
up up down down left right left right a b b a .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So... As near as I remember ever single player game used to come with a whole slew of "Cheats" to be used by whoever, whenever and for any reason.
Commander Keen had things like screen clipping where you could fly through the walls in the level, or fly mode.
Age of Empires had things where you could turn the birds into dragons, get babies on tricycles with shotguns or cars with heavy weaponry.
Since when is this new?
Heck I remember some games having an "I win" button.
Can anyone tell me how this is different from the age old era of 286 and 386 video games?
Heck now that I think about it, what about game sharks and other such devices designed to unlock cheats in the game?
up up down down left right left right a b b a.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484401</id>
	<title>Is it religion? ;-)</title>
	<author>Quiet\_Desperation</author>
	<datestamp>1246037580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Stuff like this makes me think of really religious people.</p><p>"Someone, somewhere is having fun? We can't have that!"</p><p>I'm surprised they don't have mass burnings of official strategy guides. These are the folks who write reviews like "The game made me want to smash the controller into a puppy's skull! My blood pressure peaked to the point where my eyes were bleeding. Score: 10++!"</p><p><i>"It was never meant to be a game!</i> -- Line from Rollerball</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Stuff like this makes me think of really religious people .
" Someone , somewhere is having fun ?
We ca n't have that !
" I 'm surprised they do n't have mass burnings of official strategy guides .
These are the folks who write reviews like " The game made me want to smash the controller into a puppy 's skull !
My blood pressure peaked to the point where my eyes were bleeding .
Score : 10 + + !
" " It was never meant to be a game !
-- Line from Rollerball</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Stuff like this makes me think of really religious people.
"Someone, somewhere is having fun?
We can't have that!
"I'm surprised they don't have mass burnings of official strategy guides.
These are the folks who write reviews like "The game made me want to smash the controller into a puppy's skull!
My blood pressure peaked to the point where my eyes were bleeding.
Score: 10++!
""It was never meant to be a game!
-- Line from Rollerball</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28488093</id>
	<title>Useful for beta testing</title>
	<author>BigGar'</author>
	<datestamp>1246009860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the program kept track of sections people were skipping the game designers could then take another look at them and possibly tweak them to make them more enjoyable<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/playable, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the program kept track of sections people were skipping the game designers could then take another look at them and possibly tweak them to make them more enjoyable /playable , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the program kept track of sections people were skipping the game designers could then take another look at them and possibly tweak them to make them more enjoyable /playable, etc.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482087</id>
	<title>Re:This is new?</title>
	<author>fermion</author>
	<datestamp>1246030080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And I will take you back all the way to Donkey Kong.  The cheat allowed me to work out the movement up first, and then worry about dodging the barrels. Or the 'no disaster' mode in Simcity.  This allowed the user to learn how to build a town without having it destroyed just as you are moving to the advanced stages.  In effect, you have a sub level for each level of difficulty.
<p>
I would argue that having the game play through the really difficult parts allows the developer to add parts that would otherwise be labeled as 'too difficult' for the average consumer.  As was stated in a previous game discussion, games are expensive to develop and everyone expects a huge return on their investment, be it time or money investments.  This means tht  games are meant to be bought and played by the largest audience, I think the niche audience that wants really hard games should be happy with this development.  Just have the discipline not to use the cheat. And compete against yourself instead of complaining that others only finished faster because of the cheat.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I will take you back all the way to Donkey Kong .
The cheat allowed me to work out the movement up first , and then worry about dodging the barrels .
Or the 'no disaster ' mode in Simcity .
This allowed the user to learn how to build a town without having it destroyed just as you are moving to the advanced stages .
In effect , you have a sub level for each level of difficulty .
I would argue that having the game play through the really difficult parts allows the developer to add parts that would otherwise be labeled as 'too difficult ' for the average consumer .
As was stated in a previous game discussion , games are expensive to develop and everyone expects a huge return on their investment , be it time or money investments .
This means tht games are meant to be bought and played by the largest audience , I think the niche audience that wants really hard games should be happy with this development .
Just have the discipline not to use the cheat .
And compete against yourself instead of complaining that others only finished faster because of the cheat .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I will take you back all the way to Donkey Kong.
The cheat allowed me to work out the movement up first, and then worry about dodging the barrels.
Or the 'no disaster' mode in Simcity.
This allowed the user to learn how to build a town without having it destroyed just as you are moving to the advanced stages.
In effect, you have a sub level for each level of difficulty.
I would argue that having the game play through the really difficult parts allows the developer to add parts that would otherwise be labeled as 'too difficult' for the average consumer.
As was stated in a previous game discussion, games are expensive to develop and everyone expects a huge return on their investment, be it time or money investments.
This means tht  games are meant to be bought and played by the largest audience, I think the niche audience that wants really hard games should be happy with this development.
Just have the discipline not to use the cheat.
And compete against yourself instead of complaining that others only finished faster because of the cheat.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481085</id>
	<title>Interest in video games is waning...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246026600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>... the game companies need to do something in order to continue selling their wares.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... the game companies need to do something in order to continue selling their wares .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... the game companies need to do something in order to continue selling their wares.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482077</id>
	<title>So what are they? "Challenge" or "art"?</title>
	<author>sznupi</author>
	<datestamp>1246030020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Are paintings, sculptures, music, photography, cinema (and so on...) challenging? For the one who receives them. Or perhaps it's more about what was in the mind of the creator and how do you receive this particular cultural artifact? (which might include challenge)</p><p>Well...you decide that.</p><p>So - decide, let others decide, don't yell "consoles are dumbing our games!" (I can see that bs already in this thread...), you still have and will have a choice. Sure, more "mainstream" games will appear to hijack the whole show, but you should know better.</p><p>Plus it might bring some new talent. Also, I assure you - there is already enough past games which you'd love that you have things to play for the rest of your life. Sure, technical side of their visuals might be "obsolete"...but in this case who's "mainstream" now?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Are paintings , sculptures , music , photography , cinema ( and so on... ) challenging ?
For the one who receives them .
Or perhaps it 's more about what was in the mind of the creator and how do you receive this particular cultural artifact ?
( which might include challenge ) Well...you decide that.So - decide , let others decide , do n't yell " consoles are dumbing our games !
" ( I can see that bs already in this thread... ) , you still have and will have a choice .
Sure , more " mainstream " games will appear to hijack the whole show , but you should know better.Plus it might bring some new talent .
Also , I assure you - there is already enough past games which you 'd love that you have things to play for the rest of your life .
Sure , technical side of their visuals might be " obsolete " ...but in this case who 's " mainstream " now ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Are paintings, sculptures, music, photography, cinema (and so on...) challenging?
For the one who receives them.
Or perhaps it's more about what was in the mind of the creator and how do you receive this particular cultural artifact?
(which might include challenge)Well...you decide that.So - decide, let others decide, don't yell "consoles are dumbing our games!
" (I can see that bs already in this thread...), you still have and will have a choice.
Sure, more "mainstream" games will appear to hijack the whole show, but you should know better.Plus it might bring some new talent.
Also, I assure you - there is already enough past games which you'd love that you have things to play for the rest of your life.
Sure, technical side of their visuals might be "obsolete"...but in this case who's "mainstream" now?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481719</id>
	<title>Been There, Done That?</title>
	<author>Logical Zebra</author>
	<datestamp>1246028880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How is this different from the difficulty slider in <em>The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion</em>?  If I get to a part that is particularly pissing me off, I drop the slider all the way down to easy and kill those pesky Dremoras with one swipe of my Sword of the Divine Crusader.</p><p>There are those of us that do not want to be overly frustrated with video games; we simply want to have <em>fun</em>.  While I enjoy a bit of a challenge, it's nice to know that if I fail at something 5, 10, or 25 times, I can just click a button and make it easier (or skip it).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How is this different from the difficulty slider in The Elder Scrolls IV : Oblivion ?
If I get to a part that is particularly pissing me off , I drop the slider all the way down to easy and kill those pesky Dremoras with one swipe of my Sword of the Divine Crusader.There are those of us that do not want to be overly frustrated with video games ; we simply want to have fun .
While I enjoy a bit of a challenge , it 's nice to know that if I fail at something 5 , 10 , or 25 times , I can just click a button and make it easier ( or skip it ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is this different from the difficulty slider in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion?
If I get to a part that is particularly pissing me off, I drop the slider all the way down to easy and kill those pesky Dremoras with one swipe of my Sword of the Divine Crusader.There are those of us that do not want to be overly frustrated with video games; we simply want to have fun.
While I enjoy a bit of a challenge, it's nice to know that if I fail at something 5, 10, or 25 times, I can just click a button and make it easier (or skip it).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484527</id>
	<title>My take on it:</title>
	<author>Landshark17</author>
	<datestamp>1246038060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Games that play themelves and let you watch are not games. They are machinima.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Games that play themelves and let you watch are not games .
They are machinima .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Games that play themelves and let you watch are not games.
They are machinima.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481531</id>
	<title>Re:This is new?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246028100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even with cheat codes activated, you still had to play the game yourself, and not let some AI take over for you on autopilot. Also, the only game I can remember that had an "I win" button was The Secret of Monkey Island, and that was meant more as a joke than anything (it just ended the program right then and there). It's not like the game would then display rest of the plot and ending for you. if that is what people want, then they're looking at the wrong medium for that.</p><p>As a sidenote, the difference between a game shark and other well known cheats is that the former manipulates memory addresses in order to accomplish that task for whatever desire you want, whereas the contra code is built into the game itself by the developers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even with cheat codes activated , you still had to play the game yourself , and not let some AI take over for you on autopilot .
Also , the only game I can remember that had an " I win " button was The Secret of Monkey Island , and that was meant more as a joke than anything ( it just ended the program right then and there ) .
It 's not like the game would then display rest of the plot and ending for you .
if that is what people want , then they 're looking at the wrong medium for that.As a sidenote , the difference between a game shark and other well known cheats is that the former manipulates memory addresses in order to accomplish that task for whatever desire you want , whereas the contra code is built into the game itself by the developers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even with cheat codes activated, you still had to play the game yourself, and not let some AI take over for you on autopilot.
Also, the only game I can remember that had an "I win" button was The Secret of Monkey Island, and that was meant more as a joke than anything (it just ended the program right then and there).
It's not like the game would then display rest of the plot and ending for you.
if that is what people want, then they're looking at the wrong medium for that.As a sidenote, the difference between a game shark and other well known cheats is that the former manipulates memory addresses in order to accomplish that task for whatever desire you want, whereas the contra code is built into the game itself by the developers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481205</id>
	<title>Win button</title>
	<author>hansamurai</author>
	<datestamp>1246026960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I can't for the life of me find the image right now, but there's a classic photoshop of a Gamecube controller with all the buttons on the right side replaced with a giant, green WIN button.  This reminds me of that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I ca n't for the life of me find the image right now , but there 's a classic photoshop of a Gamecube controller with all the buttons on the right side replaced with a giant , green WIN button .
This reminds me of that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I can't for the life of me find the image right now, but there's a classic photoshop of a Gamecube controller with all the buttons on the right side replaced with a giant, green WIN button.
This reminds me of that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481449</id>
	<title>Well done for missing the point</title>
	<author>DavidR1991</author>
	<datestamp>1246027860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Making a game so easy it can play itself for you at the push of a button just might be that point."</p><p>No no and no. If anything, this is the [b]reverse[/b] - it means more difficult sections can be added to the game, without endangering less experienced players (by showing them "how it's done" and letting them skip the harder bits completely <b>if they want to</b>).</p><p>This means each demographic gets what it wants - hardcores get a game with some nice tricky sections, and casual gamers get a fun game where they skim over the bits they find too difficult/tedious.</p><p>The quoted article is just alarmist turd, and skims over the fact this is, effectively, difficulty levels on crack. There's absolutely no difference between this and selecting Easy/Medium/Hard - this is just a clever hybrid.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Making a game so easy it can play itself for you at the push of a button just might be that point .
" No no and no .
If anything , this is the [ b ] reverse [ /b ] - it means more difficult sections can be added to the game , without endangering less experienced players ( by showing them " how it 's done " and letting them skip the harder bits completely if they want to ) .This means each demographic gets what it wants - hardcores get a game with some nice tricky sections , and casual gamers get a fun game where they skim over the bits they find too difficult/tedious.The quoted article is just alarmist turd , and skims over the fact this is , effectively , difficulty levels on crack .
There 's absolutely no difference between this and selecting Easy/Medium/Hard - this is just a clever hybrid .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Making a game so easy it can play itself for you at the push of a button just might be that point.
"No no and no.
If anything, this is the [b]reverse[/b] - it means more difficult sections can be added to the game, without endangering less experienced players (by showing them "how it's done" and letting them skip the harder bits completely if they want to).This means each demographic gets what it wants - hardcores get a game with some nice tricky sections, and casual gamers get a fun game where they skim over the bits they find too difficult/tedious.The quoted article is just alarmist turd, and skims over the fact this is, effectively, difficulty levels on crack.
There's absolutely no difference between this and selecting Easy/Medium/Hard - this is just a clever hybrid.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481163</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>JPLemme</author>
	<datestamp>1246026840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>"When I was a kid...I liked it because it was a challenge."</b> <br> <br>
Exactly. But as an adult life has enough challenges already. Games are the only thing where I even have the <i>option</i> of saying "this is too hard, let's skip it."<br> <br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>/I'd kill for that power in the rest of my life...</htmltext>
<tokenext>" When I was a kid...I liked it because it was a challenge .
" Exactly .
But as an adult life has enough challenges already .
Games are the only thing where I even have the option of saying " this is too hard , let 's skip it .
" /I 'd kill for that power in the rest of my life.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"When I was a kid...I liked it because it was a challenge.
"  
Exactly.
But as an adult life has enough challenges already.
Games are the only thing where I even have the option of saying "this is too hard, let's skip it.
"  /I'd kill for that power in the rest of my life...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069</id>
	<title>Finally!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246026540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's nothing more frustrating (in the gaming world) than playing a game for hours just to unlock a part of the game I <i>already paid for!</i> Slogging through a dozen crappy songs just to unlock Anthrax and Megedeth was no fun at all. I paid for Guitar Hero. If the very first thing I want to do is play Free Bird on Expert then it's my right. (Or at least it should be.) <br> <br>
A lot of game companies don't seem to understand this, but a lot of gamers are adults with other interests and responsibilities. Spending hours "practicing" so that I can master a video game is not in the cards.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's nothing more frustrating ( in the gaming world ) than playing a game for hours just to unlock a part of the game I already paid for !
Slogging through a dozen crappy songs just to unlock Anthrax and Megedeth was no fun at all .
I paid for Guitar Hero .
If the very first thing I want to do is play Free Bird on Expert then it 's my right .
( Or at least it should be .
) A lot of game companies do n't seem to understand this , but a lot of gamers are adults with other interests and responsibilities .
Spending hours " practicing " so that I can master a video game is not in the cards .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's nothing more frustrating (in the gaming world) than playing a game for hours just to unlock a part of the game I already paid for!
Slogging through a dozen crappy songs just to unlock Anthrax and Megedeth was no fun at all.
I paid for Guitar Hero.
If the very first thing I want to do is play Free Bird on Expert then it's my right.
(Or at least it should be.
)  
A lot of game companies don't seem to understand this, but a lot of gamers are adults with other interests and responsibilities.
Spending hours "practicing" so that I can master a video game is not in the cards.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28488789</id>
	<title>Re:Everyone's Special</title>
	<author>analog\_line</author>
	<datestamp>1246013280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, we could call it, I dunno...  Difficulty levels maybe?  Yeah, that's the future of gaming.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , we could call it , I dunno... Difficulty levels maybe ?
Yeah , that 's the future of gaming .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, we could call it, I dunno...  Difficulty levels maybe?
Yeah, that's the future of gaming.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481349</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481649</id>
	<title>Re:Interest in video games is waning...</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1246028580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Interest in video games is waning</p></div></blockquote><p> <a href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=" title="google.co.uk">Citation needed</a> [google.co.uk].

</p><p>Are you using a sample size of 1, perchance?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Interest in video games is waning Citation needed [ google.co.uk ] .
Are you using a sample size of 1 , perchance ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Interest in video games is waning Citation needed [google.co.uk].
Are you using a sample size of 1, perchance?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481085</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481485</id>
	<title>Just about the most pretentious quote ever</title>
	<author>SageinaRage</author>
	<datestamp>1246027980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A statement that somehow the message of art 'degrades' as it reaches more people is something I assumed to hear from some art snob complaining about reproductions of the Mona Lisa, not about a video game starring Mario.  The whole notion is insanely elitist, and I'm frankly flabbergasted that someone saw fit to print it.</p><p>
Especially considering that they got the whole idea wrong - it's only a demo mode that shows you how to beat a section.  In order to progress through the game, you still have to play it yourself!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A statement that somehow the message of art 'degrades ' as it reaches more people is something I assumed to hear from some art snob complaining about reproductions of the Mona Lisa , not about a video game starring Mario .
The whole notion is insanely elitist , and I 'm frankly flabbergasted that someone saw fit to print it .
Especially considering that they got the whole idea wrong - it 's only a demo mode that shows you how to beat a section .
In order to progress through the game , you still have to play it yourself !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A statement that somehow the message of art 'degrades' as it reaches more people is something I assumed to hear from some art snob complaining about reproductions of the Mona Lisa, not about a video game starring Mario.
The whole notion is insanely elitist, and I'm frankly flabbergasted that someone saw fit to print it.
Especially considering that they got the whole idea wrong - it's only a demo mode that shows you how to beat a section.
In order to progress through the game, you still have to play it yourself!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481353</id>
	<title>if you win, you get to see</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246027500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar\_Queer-O" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">"You... Are... Fags!"</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" You... Are... Fags !
" [ wikipedia.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"You... Are... Fags!
" [wikipedia.org]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482847</id>
	<title>Re:Interest in video games is waning...</title>
	<author>Freetardo Jones</author>
	<datestamp>1246032180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think the facts bear you out: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/jun/09/games-dvd-music-downloads-piracy" title="guardian.co.uk">http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/jun/09/games-dvd-music-downloads-piracy</a> [guardian.co.uk]</p><p>Notice the bar for games sales and how it rises almost every year since 1999.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think the facts bear you out : http : //www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/jun/09/games-dvd-music-downloads-piracy [ guardian.co.uk ] Notice the bar for games sales and how it rises almost every year since 1999 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think the facts bear you out: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/jun/09/games-dvd-music-downloads-piracy [guardian.co.uk]Notice the bar for games sales and how it rises almost every year since 1999.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481085</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485865</id>
	<title>Re:Been There, Done That?</title>
	<author>n00854180t</author>
	<datestamp>1246043100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because, even if you scale the difficulty down as much as possible, you're still interacting with the game, you're still playing it, however easy it may be.  A game minus interaction is no longer a game.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because , even if you scale the difficulty down as much as possible , you 're still interacting with the game , you 're still playing it , however easy it may be .
A game minus interaction is no longer a game .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because, even if you scale the difficulty down as much as possible, you're still interacting with the game, you're still playing it, however easy it may be.
A game minus interaction is no longer a game.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481719</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481153</id>
	<title>Re:What? no challenge?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246026780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course Super Mario Bros. got the difficulty level about right.  Anyone could pick it up and play it, get pretty far, and beat it with a little practice.  I think SMB is a good example of a very accessible game. If it gets much easier what's the point in playing?  Other games, say, Ninja Gaiden required a lot more dedication to beat. But that's good for the right kind of game player.  We need more games like Ninja Gaiden.  Still other games, like say, Ghosts 'n Goblins were, in my opinion, unreasonably difficult. I'm glad we've backed off a bit from that level of difficulty.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course Super Mario Bros. got the difficulty level about right .
Anyone could pick it up and play it , get pretty far , and beat it with a little practice .
I think SMB is a good example of a very accessible game .
If it gets much easier what 's the point in playing ?
Other games , say , Ninja Gaiden required a lot more dedication to beat .
But that 's good for the right kind of game player .
We need more games like Ninja Gaiden .
Still other games , like say , Ghosts 'n Goblins were , in my opinion , unreasonably difficult .
I 'm glad we 've backed off a bit from that level of difficulty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course Super Mario Bros. got the difficulty level about right.
Anyone could pick it up and play it, get pretty far, and beat it with a little practice.
I think SMB is a good example of a very accessible game.
If it gets much easier what's the point in playing?
Other games, say, Ninja Gaiden required a lot more dedication to beat.
But that's good for the right kind of game player.
We need more games like Ninja Gaiden.
Still other games, like say, Ghosts 'n Goblins were, in my opinion, unreasonably difficult.
I'm glad we've backed off a bit from that level of difficulty.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28488955</id>
	<title>Re:Finally!</title>
	<author>Blakey Rat</author>
	<datestamp>1246014060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Even Soul Calibur IV is annoying. My favorite part of the game is the character creator, but getting through the stupid "Tower of Soul" levels and having to figure out the extremely vague and unhelpful "clues" to unlock equipment is annoying as hell (and takes ages). I just want to play dress-up damnit!</p><p>I'd pay $5 or $10 to just have all the equipment and characters in the game unlocked.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Even Soul Calibur IV is annoying .
My favorite part of the game is the character creator , but getting through the stupid " Tower of Soul " levels and having to figure out the extremely vague and unhelpful " clues " to unlock equipment is annoying as hell ( and takes ages ) .
I just want to play dress-up damnit ! I 'd pay $ 5 or $ 10 to just have all the equipment and characters in the game unlocked .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Even Soul Calibur IV is annoying.
My favorite part of the game is the character creator, but getting through the stupid "Tower of Soul" levels and having to figure out the extremely vague and unhelpful "clues" to unlock equipment is annoying as hell (and takes ages).
I just want to play dress-up damnit!I'd pay $5 or $10 to just have all the equipment and characters in the game unlocked.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481273</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481375</id>
	<title>Re:Finally!</title>
	<author>onion2k</author>
	<datestamp>1246027620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Likewise though, there aren't many things as frustrating as paying a fair amount for a game only to get a few hours of entertainment for it. There's a balance to be struck, and a delicate one at that. If a game is too hard <b>or</b> too easy you'll feel you didn't get value for money.</p><p>I think the 'auto-complete' idea is a good one, but it needs to come with a penalty. Spending a "life" to progress, or some points, or simply being branded a "cheat" on the end screen would be enough to make you try to play through again without the help. People without the time to invest would be able to access everything they've bought while people wanting the challenge would still have a reason to put in the required effort.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Likewise though , there are n't many things as frustrating as paying a fair amount for a game only to get a few hours of entertainment for it .
There 's a balance to be struck , and a delicate one at that .
If a game is too hard or too easy you 'll feel you did n't get value for money.I think the 'auto-complete ' idea is a good one , but it needs to come with a penalty .
Spending a " life " to progress , or some points , or simply being branded a " cheat " on the end screen would be enough to make you try to play through again without the help .
People without the time to invest would be able to access everything they 've bought while people wanting the challenge would still have a reason to put in the required effort .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Likewise though, there aren't many things as frustrating as paying a fair amount for a game only to get a few hours of entertainment for it.
There's a balance to be struck, and a delicate one at that.
If a game is too hard or too easy you'll feel you didn't get value for money.I think the 'auto-complete' idea is a good one, but it needs to come with a penalty.
Spending a "life" to progress, or some points, or simply being branded a "cheat" on the end screen would be enough to make you try to play through again without the help.
People without the time to invest would be able to access everything they've bought while people wanting the challenge would still have a reason to put in the required effort.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487297</id>
	<title>Re:Finally!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1246049640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>A videogame is the manifestation of a director, and its story, rules and challenges exist as a cohesive unit.</p><p>If you buy a DVD of Six Sense, it's not your right to make Bruce Willis not dead, just like if the developer doesn't want you to skip ahead, it's not your right to do so.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>A videogame is the manifestation of a director , and its story , rules and challenges exist as a cohesive unit.If you buy a DVD of Six Sense , it 's not your right to make Bruce Willis not dead , just like if the developer does n't want you to skip ahead , it 's not your right to do so .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A videogame is the manifestation of a director, and its story, rules and challenges exist as a cohesive unit.If you buy a DVD of Six Sense, it's not your right to make Bruce Willis not dead, just like if the developer doesn't want you to skip ahead, it's not your right to do so.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485113</id>
	<title>Diminishing Returns</title>
	<author>BaronHethorSamedi</author>
	<datestamp>1246040160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I dunno.  In principle I can't see a problem including a "game plays itself" feature if the developer wants to go that route.  Let them put in whatever they want--it's their game.<br>
<br>
As a practical matter though, if "accessibility" comes to mean "player is now a spectator," it's not clear to me how you're attracting people to gaming.  If you remove the interactivity, you have a film, not a game.  In the case of Mario Bros., it's an extremely boring, linear film with shallow characters and only one possible conclusion.<br>
<br>
On second thought, maybe Nintendo is trying to make some sort of existential statement...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I dunno .
In principle I ca n't see a problem including a " game plays itself " feature if the developer wants to go that route .
Let them put in whatever they want--it 's their game .
As a practical matter though , if " accessibility " comes to mean " player is now a spectator , " it 's not clear to me how you 're attracting people to gaming .
If you remove the interactivity , you have a film , not a game .
In the case of Mario Bros. , it 's an extremely boring , linear film with shallow characters and only one possible conclusion .
On second thought , maybe Nintendo is trying to make some sort of existential statement.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I dunno.
In principle I can't see a problem including a "game plays itself" feature if the developer wants to go that route.
Let them put in whatever they want--it's their game.
As a practical matter though, if "accessibility" comes to mean "player is now a spectator," it's not clear to me how you're attracting people to gaming.
If you remove the interactivity, you have a film, not a game.
In the case of Mario Bros., it's an extremely boring, linear film with shallow characters and only one possible conclusion.
On second thought, maybe Nintendo is trying to make some sort of existential statement...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481549
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28488789
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481349
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487105
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485691
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481819
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485543
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28483641
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481085
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484519
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481231
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482077
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_39</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481649
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481085
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481353
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481531
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482087
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_34</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28488493
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481485
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484039
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485865
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481719
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_26</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487689
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487405
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481819
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_33</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482701
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481819
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28488955
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481273
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_32</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28492135
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481191
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482847
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481085
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481657
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481273
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481473
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_24</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481375
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481927
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28480957
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_38</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481153
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_31</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28486793
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481999
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481609
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481395
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481037
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28486913
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481163
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481559
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28480957
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_37</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485439
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482083
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484427
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481819
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_27</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487497
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28483655
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28483703
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_35</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28507683
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481085
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_26_0730223_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487297
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.16</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481485
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28488493
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.14</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481719
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485865
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481177
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481191
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28492135
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481049
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481037
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481395
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481349
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28488789
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481449
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482533
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28480957
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481559
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481927
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481069
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482083
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481353
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28486793
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487297
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481609
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481273
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481657
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28488955
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481375
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485543
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485439
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.13</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481235
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481149
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481045
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482087
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484039
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487689
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481531
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481549
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481473
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481011
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482077
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481153
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481999
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481199
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481321
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487105
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487497
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28483703
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481819
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484427
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482701
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28487405
----http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28485691
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28483655
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481163
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28486913
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481231
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484519
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.15</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481575
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481085
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28483641
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28481649
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28482847
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28507683
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_26_0730223.10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_26_0730223.28484409
</commentlist>
</conversation>
