<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_17_0559245</id>
	<title>Defining an Indie Game Developer</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1245236520000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="mailto:media@ninjabee.com" rel="nofollow">NinjaBee Games</a> writes <i>"A continual debate rages about the nature of making independent games. 'What is Indie game development?' This argument endures throughout the year, but it's almost never heard louder than right after the announcement of finalists or winners of an Indie game development contest. The debate currently is in full swing after Microsoft's recent announcement that they will be <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news\_index.php?story=24008">changing the name of the Xbox Live Community Games section</a> to Xbox Live Indie Games. In light of this important debate, Brent Fox of Indie developer NinjaBee has written a blog post in which he claims he has finally found <a href="http://www.ninjabee.com/blog/2009/06/indie-game-developer-definition.html">the 'clear and undeniable' definition of Indie</a>."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>NinjaBee Games writes " A continual debate rages about the nature of making independent games .
'What is Indie game development ?
' This argument endures throughout the year , but it 's almost never heard louder than right after the announcement of finalists or winners of an Indie game development contest .
The debate currently is in full swing after Microsoft 's recent announcement that they will be changing the name of the Xbox Live Community Games section to Xbox Live Indie Games .
In light of this important debate , Brent Fox of Indie developer NinjaBee has written a blog post in which he claims he has finally found the 'clear and undeniable ' definition of Indie .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>NinjaBee Games writes "A continual debate rages about the nature of making independent games.
'What is Indie game development?
' This argument endures throughout the year, but it's almost never heard louder than right after the announcement of finalists or winners of an Indie game development contest.
The debate currently is in full swing after Microsoft's recent announcement that they will be changing the name of the Xbox Live Community Games section to Xbox Live Indie Games.
In light of this important debate, Brent Fox of Indie developer NinjaBee has written a blog post in which he claims he has finally found the 'clear and undeniable' definition of Indie.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28363495</id>
	<title>In other news...</title>
	<author>denzacar</author>
	<datestamp>1245263280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"A continual debate rages about the nature of color blue. 'What is blue?'<br>Thanks to RGB and CMYK and other color models and scales we know what exactly means Cyan or 0.0.255 or 0000FF, but the common "blue" remains elusive."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" A continual debate rages about the nature of color blue .
'What is blue ?
'Thanks to RGB and CMYK and other color models and scales we know what exactly means Cyan or 0.0.255 or 0000FF , but the common " blue " remains elusive .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"A continual debate rages about the nature of color blue.
'What is blue?
'Thanks to RGB and CMYK and other color models and scales we know what exactly means Cyan or 0.0.255 or 0000FF, but the common "blue" remains elusive.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359863</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359835</id>
	<title>need more categories</title>
	<author>corey.abshire</author>
	<datestamp>1245242940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Seems to me that to really be "fair" based on the rough criteria outlined in the article, you'd almost need a kind of weight system like in boxing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seems to me that to really be " fair " based on the rough criteria outlined in the article , you 'd almost need a kind of weight system like in boxing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seems to me that to really be "fair" based on the rough criteria outlined in the article, you'd almost need a kind of weight system like in boxing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28360393</id>
	<title>Re:You didn't define independently or big</title>
	<author>sammyF70</author>
	<datestamp>1245247260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Someone please mod parent up.<p>If you're develop  a game (or, for that matter, create a music track/make a movie) without being paid up-front by a 3rd party for the rights to publish the final product, you're independent. As soon as you get money for the rights to publish the final product before it is even in a releasable state, you're not independent anymore, as this kind of money generally comes with its own set of limitations and set by the publisher. You are now owing a finished product for the delivered money, and it generally should conform to conditions set by the publisher ("look<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you can't show boobs! And could you please add some gore when you use a grenade?")</p><p>
I would rant longer, but power outage, and my UPS is going to die soon.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Someone please mod parent up.If you 're develop a game ( or , for that matter , create a music track/make a movie ) without being paid up-front by a 3rd party for the rights to publish the final product , you 're independent .
As soon as you get money for the rights to publish the final product before it is even in a releasable state , you 're not independent anymore , as this kind of money generally comes with its own set of limitations and set by the publisher .
You are now owing a finished product for the delivered money , and it generally should conform to conditions set by the publisher ( " look ... you ca n't show boobs !
And could you please add some gore when you use a grenade ?
" ) I would rant longer , but power outage , and my UPS is going to die soon .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Someone please mod parent up.If you're develop  a game (or, for that matter, create a music track/make a movie) without being paid up-front by a 3rd party for the rights to publish the final product, you're independent.
As soon as you get money for the rights to publish the final product before it is even in a releasable state, you're not independent anymore, as this kind of money generally comes with its own set of limitations and set by the publisher.
You are now owing a finished product for the delivered money, and it generally should conform to conditions set by the publisher ("look ... you can't show boobs!
And could you please add some gore when you use a grenade?
")
I would rant longer, but power outage, and my UPS is going to die soon.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28360215</id>
	<title>Re:Its like music</title>
	<author>jellomizer</author>
	<datestamp>1245246060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes.  That guys breakdown had some things in It that think some people would find objectionable.</p><p>
&nbsp; Use of commercial software or big commercial game engines<br>Why can't Indie game maker use such a stuff.  So lets say it cost $2,000 to license the software. That is about as much as a good computer.  So he has a crappy computer and uses software that makes programming a bit easier (as he is just an Indie developer and doesn't have the money for programming staff (The last time I checked $2k fixed cost or even annually is cheaper hiring someone at $35k+ a year)</p><p>
&nbsp; Telling a story in a game<br>Um why if you game follows a story then it does. If it doesn't then don't. A lot of games have a really lame story anyways just enough to make you feel morally justified to kill everything in sight. It is not like you need a huge work force to come up with a story.</p><p>
&nbsp; Visuals that are too high-end and pretty<br>So the Indie developer is not an Indie developer if they are a talented artist? I found out I could come up with some really fancy stuff with tinkering with Pov-Ray for a day.</p><p>
&nbsp; Use of 3D<br>Yea the concept of the Z axis makes things so much more complex that you need a huge team of developers what is it the 1980's. I was messing with 3d drawing algorithms as a kid once I learned about some trig and the inverse square rule.</p><p>
&nbsp; Making a game that is mainstream and commercially viable (No first-person shooters)<br>So if an indie game is actually popular. Like in music and movies every once in a while an Indie title comes out that really catches on.</p><p>
&nbsp; Desire for financial success<br>Why can't you do what you love, and make money too?</p><p>
&nbsp; Lack of distain for authority and publishers<br>So you need to be a miserable bastard too?</p><p>
&nbsp; Not high enough quality<br>So you can't do things that can make you game high quality.  However you need to make it high quality.  Yea... I think I will write my TPS reports now.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes .
That guys breakdown had some things in It that think some people would find objectionable .
  Use of commercial software or big commercial game enginesWhy ca n't Indie game maker use such a stuff .
So lets say it cost $ 2,000 to license the software .
That is about as much as a good computer .
So he has a crappy computer and uses software that makes programming a bit easier ( as he is just an Indie developer and does n't have the money for programming staff ( The last time I checked $ 2k fixed cost or even annually is cheaper hiring someone at $ 35k + a year )   Telling a story in a gameUm why if you game follows a story then it does .
If it does n't then do n't .
A lot of games have a really lame story anyways just enough to make you feel morally justified to kill everything in sight .
It is not like you need a huge work force to come up with a story .
  Visuals that are too high-end and prettySo the Indie developer is not an Indie developer if they are a talented artist ?
I found out I could come up with some really fancy stuff with tinkering with Pov-Ray for a day .
  Use of 3DYea the concept of the Z axis makes things so much more complex that you need a huge team of developers what is it the 1980 's .
I was messing with 3d drawing algorithms as a kid once I learned about some trig and the inverse square rule .
  Making a game that is mainstream and commercially viable ( No first-person shooters ) So if an indie game is actually popular .
Like in music and movies every once in a while an Indie title comes out that really catches on .
  Desire for financial successWhy ca n't you do what you love , and make money too ?
  Lack of distain for authority and publishersSo you need to be a miserable bastard too ?
  Not high enough qualitySo you ca n't do things that can make you game high quality .
However you need to make it high quality .
Yea... I think I will write my TPS reports now .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes.
That guys breakdown had some things in It that think some people would find objectionable.
  Use of commercial software or big commercial game enginesWhy can't Indie game maker use such a stuff.
So lets say it cost $2,000 to license the software.
That is about as much as a good computer.
So he has a crappy computer and uses software that makes programming a bit easier (as he is just an Indie developer and doesn't have the money for programming staff (The last time I checked $2k fixed cost or even annually is cheaper hiring someone at $35k+ a year)
  Telling a story in a gameUm why if you game follows a story then it does.
If it doesn't then don't.
A lot of games have a really lame story anyways just enough to make you feel morally justified to kill everything in sight.
It is not like you need a huge work force to come up with a story.
  Visuals that are too high-end and prettySo the Indie developer is not an Indie developer if they are a talented artist?
I found out I could come up with some really fancy stuff with tinkering with Pov-Ray for a day.
  Use of 3DYea the concept of the Z axis makes things so much more complex that you need a huge team of developers what is it the 1980's.
I was messing with 3d drawing algorithms as a kid once I learned about some trig and the inverse square rule.
  Making a game that is mainstream and commercially viable (No first-person shooters)So if an indie game is actually popular.
Like in music and movies every once in a while an Indie title comes out that really catches on.
  Desire for financial successWhy can't you do what you love, and make money too?
  Lack of distain for authority and publishersSo you need to be a miserable bastard too?
  Not high enough qualitySo you can't do things that can make you game high quality.
However you need to make it high quality.
Yea... I think I will write my TPS reports now.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28370271</id>
	<title>Re:Its like music</title>
	<author>ravyne</author>
	<datestamp>1245267780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I'd disagree. Something is indie if its *produced* independently, without external aid (such as advancements from a publisher, for instance) -- Whether it's later picked up by a publisher, big or small, has nothing to do with it unless they start demanding changes before its release. What "Indie" is supposed to mean is a product that is free of all the publisher/market-research/men-in-suits bullshit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd disagree .
Something is indie if its * produced * independently , without external aid ( such as advancements from a publisher , for instance ) -- Whether it 's later picked up by a publisher , big or small , has nothing to do with it unless they start demanding changes before its release .
What " Indie " is supposed to mean is a product that is free of all the publisher/market-research/men-in-suits bullshit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd disagree.
Something is indie if its *produced* independently, without external aid (such as advancements from a publisher, for instance) -- Whether it's later picked up by a publisher, big or small, has nothing to do with it unless they start demanding changes before its release.
What "Indie" is supposed to mean is a product that is free of all the publisher/market-research/men-in-suits bullshit.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359845</id>
	<title>Re:You didn't define independently or big</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245243000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So if Microsoft releases a game and self-publishes it, it's indie? I think that doesn't fit into most people's definitions of indie (I would guess most people use "indie" as a synonym for "non-mainstream", which is practically impossible to formally define)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So if Microsoft releases a game and self-publishes it , it 's indie ?
I think that does n't fit into most people 's definitions of indie ( I would guess most people use " indie " as a synonym for " non-mainstream " , which is practically impossible to formally define )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So if Microsoft releases a game and self-publishes it, it's indie?
I think that doesn't fit into most people's definitions of indie (I would guess most people use "indie" as a synonym for "non-mainstream", which is practically impossible to formally define)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359799</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28361199</id>
	<title>Re:Its like music</title>
	<author>Mr\_eX9</author>
	<datestamp>1245252060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Except that in the music world, "Indie" is the "Alt" of the 2000s--it's a term so overused that it's well beyond useless.</p><p>Because of multi-platform games and digital distribution, the relationship between a game developer and their publisher is very different than the relationship between a signed band and their record label. I don't think the availability of games like Braid, Blueberry Garden, or The Dishwasher on mainstream platforms makes them (or their developers) not "indie."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Except that in the music world , " Indie " is the " Alt " of the 2000s--it 's a term so overused that it 's well beyond useless.Because of multi-platform games and digital distribution , the relationship between a game developer and their publisher is very different than the relationship between a signed band and their record label .
I do n't think the availability of games like Braid , Blueberry Garden , or The Dishwasher on mainstream platforms makes them ( or their developers ) not " indie .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Except that in the music world, "Indie" is the "Alt" of the 2000s--it's a term so overused that it's well beyond useless.Because of multi-platform games and digital distribution, the relationship between a game developer and their publisher is very different than the relationship between a signed band and their record label.
I don't think the availability of games like Braid, Blueberry Garden, or The Dishwasher on mainstream platforms makes them (or their developers) not "indie.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28370159</id>
	<title>Re:Its like music</title>
	<author>gowen</author>
	<datestamp>1245265620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Independently from whom?<br>What qualifies someone as a "big" publisher?</p><p>Rephrasing a question is not the same as answering it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Independently from whom ? What qualifies someone as a " big " publisher ? Rephrasing a question is not the same as answering it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Independently from whom?What qualifies someone as a "big" publisher?Rephrasing a question is not the same as answering it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28360437</id>
	<title>The definition is not rocket science</title>
	<author>UnknownSoldier</author>
	<datestamp>1245247500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Nor is it even comp.sci.  The definition is really simple:</p><p>If your paying job is NOT game development, then you ARE an indie if you do game development on the side.</p><p>If your day job IS developing games, then you're NOT an indie (you are a professional!)</p><p>Who publishers your game doesn't change your status of how you got the game made.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Nor is it even comp.sci .
The definition is really simple : If your paying job is NOT game development , then you ARE an indie if you do game development on the side.If your day job IS developing games , then you 're NOT an indie ( you are a professional !
) Who publishers your game does n't change your status of how you got the game made .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Nor is it even comp.sci.
The definition is really simple:If your paying job is NOT game development, then you ARE an indie if you do game development on the side.If your day job IS developing games, then you're NOT an indie (you are a professional!
)Who publishers your game doesn't change your status of how you got the game made.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28360503</id>
	<title>Re:Its like music</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245247920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My 2c worth:</p><p>An indie game is a game developed by an indie game developer, reguardless of publisher!</p><p>An indie game developer is any group of developers that do NOT live from the income recieved from the games (engines) they develop (ie. not fulltime game developers).</p><p>So from MY definition:<br>1) A bunch of students would qualify as an indie development team.<br>2) If Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Lawrence Page meet up in the evening to develop a game, that would also be an indie developed game, as none of them are game developers for a living.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My 2c worth : An indie game is a game developed by an indie game developer , reguardless of publisher ! An indie game developer is any group of developers that do NOT live from the income recieved from the games ( engines ) they develop ( ie .
not fulltime game developers ) .So from MY definition : 1 ) A bunch of students would qualify as an indie development team.2 ) If Bill Gates , Steve Jobs and Lawrence Page meet up in the evening to develop a game , that would also be an indie developed game , as none of them are game developers for a living .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My 2c worth:An indie game is a game developed by an indie game developer, reguardless of publisher!An indie game developer is any group of developers that do NOT live from the income recieved from the games (engines) they develop (ie.
not fulltime game developers).So from MY definition:1) A bunch of students would qualify as an indie development team.2) If Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Lawrence Page meet up in the evening to develop a game, that would also be an indie developed game, as none of them are game developers for a living.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359799</id>
	<title>Re:You didn't define independently or big</title>
	<author>FTWinston</author>
	<datestamp>1245242400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Independently of a 3rd-party publisher.
A publisher being an entity that provides money up front in exchange for rights related to the game (sales money, IP ownership, etc).
<br> <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define\%3Abig" title="lmgtfy.com">big.</a> [lmgtfy.com] <br>Big is probably irrelevant, I used this to distinguish between the dev's grandma giving them &#194;&pound;10 for a pizza during one night of development and EA giving them &#194;&pound;500'000 for the rights to the game. But its a needless distinction.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Independently of a 3rd-party publisher .
A publisher being an entity that provides money up front in exchange for rights related to the game ( sales money , IP ownership , etc ) .
big. [ lmgtfy.com ] Big is probably irrelevant , I used this to distinguish between the dev 's grandma giving them     10 for a pizza during one night of development and EA giving them     500'000 for the rights to the game .
But its a needless distinction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Independently of a 3rd-party publisher.
A publisher being an entity that provides money up front in exchange for rights related to the game (sales money, IP ownership, etc).
big. [lmgtfy.com] Big is probably irrelevant, I used this to distinguish between the dev's grandma giving them Â£10 for a pizza during one night of development and EA giving them Â£500'000 for the rights to the game.
But its a needless distinction.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359651</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359863</id>
	<title>Noun</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245243180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>Indie developer</b>: noun; 1. one who cannot hold a job;  2. One who cannot accept that his ideas are not economically viable; 3. slashdotter.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Indie developer : noun ; 1. one who can not hold a job ; 2 .
One who can not accept that his ideas are not economically viable ; 3. slashdotter .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indie developer: noun; 1. one who cannot hold a job;  2.
One who cannot accept that his ideas are not economically viable; 3. slashdotter.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28360435</id>
	<title>Indie Developers</title>
	<author>GearheadX</author>
	<datestamp>1245247440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Team Shanghai Alice yet in comments.</p><p>A one man development studio?  Can't get much more independent than that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm surprised that no one has mentioned Team Shanghai Alice yet in comments.A one man development studio ?
Ca n't get much more independent than that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Team Shanghai Alice yet in comments.A one man development studio?
Can't get much more independent than that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359731</id>
	<title>In this case..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245241620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In this case.. it is nothing more than Microsoft MBAs trying to jump on the trendiness of a new word.</p><p>MBA #1: "Oooo, all the kids are into this indie stuff with music and things."</p><p>MBA #2: "how can we capitalize on this?  how can we sound hip and with it?"</p><p>MBA #3: "I think we need to fit this word into our product somewhere!"</p><p>MBA #1: "The kids like xbox, let's use it there!"</p><p>MBA #2: "I have no idea what indie is, but sounds great!"</p><p>MBA #3: "Yeah, this will be EPIC!... right?"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In this case.. it is nothing more than Microsoft MBAs trying to jump on the trendiness of a new word.MBA # 1 : " Oooo , all the kids are into this indie stuff with music and things .
" MBA # 2 : " how can we capitalize on this ?
how can we sound hip and with it ?
" MBA # 3 : " I think we need to fit this word into our product somewhere !
" MBA # 1 : " The kids like xbox , let 's use it there !
" MBA # 2 : " I have no idea what indie is , but sounds great !
" MBA # 3 : " Yeah , this will be EPIC ! .. .
right ? "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In this case.. it is nothing more than Microsoft MBAs trying to jump on the trendiness of a new word.MBA #1: "Oooo, all the kids are into this indie stuff with music and things.
"MBA #2: "how can we capitalize on this?
how can we sound hip and with it?
"MBA #3: "I think we need to fit this word into our product somewhere!
"MBA #1: "The kids like xbox, let's use it there!
"MBA #2: "I have no idea what indie is, but sounds great!
"MBA #3: "Yeah, this will be EPIC!...
right?"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28375871</id>
	<title>Re:Its like music</title>
	<author>Brent Fox</author>
	<datestamp>1245347460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I didn"t say I agreed with all of the items on my list. I just said that I have heard other developers use these things as a means of disqualifying other developers from being "Indie". My point was that I think they create this definition based on what they are or what they hope to be soon. They then want to exclude any comparisons that they think might be unfair.

Not that I agree but I can give you some of the arguments that I"ve heard on these topics that may make them a "little" more understandable but, according to my theory, you will only agree with them if this is how you see yourself.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I didn " t say I agreed with all of the items on my list .
I just said that I have heard other developers use these things as a means of disqualifying other developers from being " Indie " .
My point was that I think they create this definition based on what they are or what they hope to be soon .
They then want to exclude any comparisons that they think might be unfair .
Not that I agree but I can give you some of the arguments that I " ve heard on these topics that may make them a " little " more understandable but , according to my theory , you will only agree with them if this is how you see yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I didn"t say I agreed with all of the items on my list.
I just said that I have heard other developers use these things as a means of disqualifying other developers from being "Indie".
My point was that I think they create this definition based on what they are or what they hope to be soon.
They then want to exclude any comparisons that they think might be unfair.
Not that I agree but I can give you some of the arguments that I"ve heard on these topics that may make them a "little" more understandable but, according to my theory, you will only agree with them if this is how you see yourself.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28360215</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359729</id>
	<title>Re:why xbox XNA development fails</title>
	<author>dmbasso</author>
	<datestamp>1245241620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>[...] I would have simply bought a new Xbox360.[...]</p></div><p>"you don't come here to hunt, do you?"</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>[ ... ] I would have simply bought a new Xbox360. [ .. .
] " you do n't come here to hunt , do you ?
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>[...] I would have simply bought a new Xbox360.[...
]"you don't come here to hunt, do you?
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359677</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359947</id>
	<title>Indie Developer Definition</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245243960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An indie developer is the guy that says "Hey, I can code. I like video games. I should make my own video game! I have no visual or musical artistic sense, but that's just filler toward the end of the project!"</p><p>500 hours of coding later, the indie developer comes to realize that their game will fail miserably due to the fact that they underestimated how hard it would be to come across free graphic, music, and sound effect assets that reflect what the game is supposed to be.</p><p>That same indie developer then spends another handful of hours learning Blender to realize that the best they can come up with artistically is a sphere that's had its centre punched in that they euphemistically call a "bean bag chair" and try to completely retool their gameplay around that. Grand Theft Auto 5 becomes Beanbag Jumping World.</p><p>1,000 hours, many Blender exports, recording sessions in the bathroom bashing a plank of wood with a hammer to re-create the sound of wood cracking without buying some $100+ sound library and a crappy public domain tune later, they release their game on their webpage and over the next five years, approximately 3 people not related to the author check it out.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An indie developer is the guy that says " Hey , I can code .
I like video games .
I should make my own video game !
I have no visual or musical artistic sense , but that 's just filler toward the end of the project !
" 500 hours of coding later , the indie developer comes to realize that their game will fail miserably due to the fact that they underestimated how hard it would be to come across free graphic , music , and sound effect assets that reflect what the game is supposed to be.That same indie developer then spends another handful of hours learning Blender to realize that the best they can come up with artistically is a sphere that 's had its centre punched in that they euphemistically call a " bean bag chair " and try to completely retool their gameplay around that .
Grand Theft Auto 5 becomes Beanbag Jumping World.1,000 hours , many Blender exports , recording sessions in the bathroom bashing a plank of wood with a hammer to re-create the sound of wood cracking without buying some $ 100 + sound library and a crappy public domain tune later , they release their game on their webpage and over the next five years , approximately 3 people not related to the author check it out .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An indie developer is the guy that says "Hey, I can code.
I like video games.
I should make my own video game!
I have no visual or musical artistic sense, but that's just filler toward the end of the project!
"500 hours of coding later, the indie developer comes to realize that their game will fail miserably due to the fact that they underestimated how hard it would be to come across free graphic, music, and sound effect assets that reflect what the game is supposed to be.That same indie developer then spends another handful of hours learning Blender to realize that the best they can come up with artistically is a sphere that's had its centre punched in that they euphemistically call a "bean bag chair" and try to completely retool their gameplay around that.
Grand Theft Auto 5 becomes Beanbag Jumping World.1,000 hours, many Blender exports, recording sessions in the bathroom bashing a plank of wood with a hammer to re-create the sound of wood cracking without buying some $100+ sound library and a crappy public domain tune later, they release their game on their webpage and over the next five years, approximately 3 people not related to the author check it out.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359677</id>
	<title>why xbox XNA development fails</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245241140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>OK Microsoft engineers put a LOT of very good effort into the XNA game development platform.  And its a total failure.  Let me explain why:</p><p>To buy a game from a indie developer is more difficult to find and choose then any xbox live arcade games,  the xbox is not a simple devie designed for casual gaming, its a gaming machine.   NOTHING drives them to look at the xbox XNA developers.</p><p>So theres no advertisements for you, no "hey here is the best", nada.  If marketing was on the level of engineering then the XNA development would be helping the 360 sell like gangbusters.</p><p>Support.  as I was working on XNA my console red lighted.  the turnaround to replace the console was fast....but to get it to recognize my purchases?  LITERALLY over 3 months, and over 12 hours on the phone.  and god knows how many emails.  By the time it got straightened out you know what they gave me?  a month of free xbox gold.  What the heck?  If I had known what was going to happen I would have simply bought a new Xbox360.</p><p>So discouraged, and REALLY pissed...I canceled my XNA development kit.</p><p>So far the iPhone seems a lot better-the only complaint there is LOTS of competition.  Which I am OK with.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>OK Microsoft engineers put a LOT of very good effort into the XNA game development platform .
And its a total failure .
Let me explain why : To buy a game from a indie developer is more difficult to find and choose then any xbox live arcade games , the xbox is not a simple devie designed for casual gaming , its a gaming machine .
NOTHING drives them to look at the xbox XNA developers.So theres no advertisements for you , no " hey here is the best " , nada .
If marketing was on the level of engineering then the XNA development would be helping the 360 sell like gangbusters.Support .
as I was working on XNA my console red lighted .
the turnaround to replace the console was fast....but to get it to recognize my purchases ?
LITERALLY over 3 months , and over 12 hours on the phone .
and god knows how many emails .
By the time it got straightened out you know what they gave me ?
a month of free xbox gold .
What the heck ?
If I had known what was going to happen I would have simply bought a new Xbox360.So discouraged , and REALLY pissed...I canceled my XNA development kit.So far the iPhone seems a lot better-the only complaint there is LOTS of competition .
Which I am OK with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK Microsoft engineers put a LOT of very good effort into the XNA game development platform.
And its a total failure.
Let me explain why:To buy a game from a indie developer is more difficult to find and choose then any xbox live arcade games,  the xbox is not a simple devie designed for casual gaming, its a gaming machine.
NOTHING drives them to look at the xbox XNA developers.So theres no advertisements for you, no "hey here is the best", nada.
If marketing was on the level of engineering then the XNA development would be helping the 360 sell like gangbusters.Support.
as I was working on XNA my console red lighted.
the turnaround to replace the console was fast....but to get it to recognize my purchases?
LITERALLY over 3 months, and over 12 hours on the phone.
and god knows how many emails.
By the time it got straightened out you know what they gave me?
a month of free xbox gold.
What the heck?
If I had known what was going to happen I would have simply bought a new Xbox360.So discouraged, and REALLY pissed...I canceled my XNA development kit.So far the iPhone seems a lot better-the only complaint there is LOTS of competition.
Which I am OK with.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28388749</id>
	<title>Re:You didn't define independently or big</title>
	<author>YourExperiment</author>
	<datestamp>1245421320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As soon as you get money for the rights to publish the final product before it is even in a releasable state...</p></div><p>...you're 3D Realms.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As soon as you get money for the rights to publish the final product before it is even in a releasable state......you 're 3D Realms .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As soon as you get money for the rights to publish the final product before it is even in a releasable state......you're 3D Realms.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28360393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28360705</id>
	<title>Does it matter?</title>
	<author>Opportunist</author>
	<datestamp>1245249240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Come not near to me, for I be indier than thou...</p><p>Why is that important? For the air of being not one of the "big studio" products, so it's morally (more) wrong not to pay for my game? To be excused for creating mediocre games because, well, I'm just indie, I can't produce tripel-A games (which is a lie, btw, a lot of 'indie' titles offer way more enjoyment than any big studio touted triple-A titles)?</p><p>Seriously, what's the big fuss?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Come not near to me , for I be indier than thou...Why is that important ?
For the air of being not one of the " big studio " products , so it 's morally ( more ) wrong not to pay for my game ?
To be excused for creating mediocre games because , well , I 'm just indie , I ca n't produce tripel-A games ( which is a lie , btw , a lot of 'indie ' titles offer way more enjoyment than any big studio touted triple-A titles ) ? Seriously , what 's the big fuss ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Come not near to me, for I be indier than thou...Why is that important?
For the air of being not one of the "big studio" products, so it's morally (more) wrong not to pay for my game?
To be excused for creating mediocre games because, well, I'm just indie, I can't produce tripel-A games (which is a lie, btw, a lot of 'indie' titles offer way more enjoyment than any big studio touted triple-A titles)?Seriously, what's the big fuss?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28371121</id>
	<title>Re:You didn't define independently or big</title>
	<author>darthvader100</author>
	<datestamp>1245318960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Independently of what?</p></div><p>Independently of having development funded by a big-house.<br> <br>

If you record a song at home, release it on your blog and sony starts sell it(or you take it to stores to publish)<br> <br>

You still funded it, on a much smaller scale than say Britney, who is churning out mass-produced songs that her agent tells her to<br> <br>

If you write a game from scratch(Plants vs zombies) then it deserves to be judged by different rules than if it is "Sims 3: Pets Yet Again"<br>
Even if EA publishes it later, you still made it on an indie budget catering to a smaller audience.<br> <br>

I think the trouble comes when a song/game is <b>produced</b> by a major <b>publisher</b>.  I mean by your logic if you walk into gamestop and buy an indie game(plants vs zombies) does that make gamestop the <b>PRODUCER</b> ?  It is no different buying a game from a company that also produces games than buying from a store</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Now define "big"</p></div><p>
That one is easy, you are big if I say you are big...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Independently of what ? Independently of having development funded by a big-house .
If you record a song at home , release it on your blog and sony starts sell it ( or you take it to stores to publish ) You still funded it , on a much smaller scale than say Britney , who is churning out mass-produced songs that her agent tells her to If you write a game from scratch ( Plants vs zombies ) then it deserves to be judged by different rules than if it is " Sims 3 : Pets Yet Again " Even if EA publishes it later , you still made it on an indie budget catering to a smaller audience .
I think the trouble comes when a song/game is produced by a major publisher .
I mean by your logic if you walk into gamestop and buy an indie game ( plants vs zombies ) does that make gamestop the PRODUCER ?
It is no different buying a game from a company that also produces games than buying from a storeNow define " big " That one is easy , you are big if I say you are big.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Independently of what?Independently of having development funded by a big-house.
If you record a song at home, release it on your blog and sony starts sell it(or you take it to stores to publish) 

You still funded it, on a much smaller scale than say Britney, who is churning out mass-produced songs that her agent tells her to 

If you write a game from scratch(Plants vs zombies) then it deserves to be judged by different rules than if it is "Sims 3: Pets Yet Again"
Even if EA publishes it later, you still made it on an indie budget catering to a smaller audience.
I think the trouble comes when a song/game is produced by a major publisher.
I mean by your logic if you walk into gamestop and buy an indie game(plants vs zombies) does that make gamestop the PRODUCER ?
It is no different buying a game from a company that also produces games than buying from a storeNow define "big"
That one is easy, you are big if I say you are big...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359651</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28364665</id>
	<title>Re:Indie Developer Definition</title>
	<author>eison</author>
	<datestamp>1245268560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Plenty of people have ended up with great careers in computers because of a desire to learn how to make videogames.<br>Very few people end up with fantastic careers because of a desire to become a rap star.<br>I would avoid discouraging the programmers.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Plenty of people have ended up with great careers in computers because of a desire to learn how to make videogames.Very few people end up with fantastic careers because of a desire to become a rap star.I would avoid discouraging the programmers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Plenty of people have ended up with great careers in computers because of a desire to learn how to make videogames.Very few people end up with fantastic careers because of a desire to become a rap star.I would avoid discouraging the programmers.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28362575</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28362801</id>
	<title>Why do you always call him "junior"?</title>
	<author>Tetsujin</author>
	<datestamp>1245259920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pah!  Everybody knows that Indy was the <em>dog's</em> name!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pah !
Everybody knows that Indy was the dog 's name !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pah!
Everybody knows that Indy was the dog's name!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359917</id>
	<title>Independent, not "indie"</title>
	<author>DNS-and-BIND</author>
	<datestamp>1245243660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you're an independent game producer, then <i>call</i> yourself that.  Calling yourself an "indie" has little actual meaning and tons of cultural meaning.  It's a word like "hyper" or "nexus" that, in some people's [small] minds, makes words next to it look better.  It's like how menus in China always have English on them:  it's not for native speakers to read, it's so the locals will look at the English and say, "ah, English - this restaurant is international and therefore better."  The quality of the product is irrelevant.<p>

And now, you're upset because a big corp came in and sat on your made-up word.  Ha-ha!  What, they changed its meaning?  It didn't have any meaning in the first place, other than to make words next to it look better to easily-impressed insular twits.  That's what the brouhaha is all about here - not that MS is going to have a new game channel, but "they stole my cool saying!  All the other hipsters at Starbucks won't think I'm cool any more!"</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you 're an independent game producer , then call yourself that .
Calling yourself an " indie " has little actual meaning and tons of cultural meaning .
It 's a word like " hyper " or " nexus " that , in some people 's [ small ] minds , makes words next to it look better .
It 's like how menus in China always have English on them : it 's not for native speakers to read , it 's so the locals will look at the English and say , " ah , English - this restaurant is international and therefore better .
" The quality of the product is irrelevant .
And now , you 're upset because a big corp came in and sat on your made-up word .
Ha-ha ! What , they changed its meaning ?
It did n't have any meaning in the first place , other than to make words next to it look better to easily-impressed insular twits .
That 's what the brouhaha is all about here - not that MS is going to have a new game channel , but " they stole my cool saying !
All the other hipsters at Starbucks wo n't think I 'm cool any more !
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you're an independent game producer, then call yourself that.
Calling yourself an "indie" has little actual meaning and tons of cultural meaning.
It's a word like "hyper" or "nexus" that, in some people's [small] minds, makes words next to it look better.
It's like how menus in China always have English on them:  it's not for native speakers to read, it's so the locals will look at the English and say, "ah, English - this restaurant is international and therefore better.
"  The quality of the product is irrelevant.
And now, you're upset because a big corp came in and sat on your made-up word.
Ha-ha!  What, they changed its meaning?
It didn't have any meaning in the first place, other than to make words next to it look better to easily-impressed insular twits.
That's what the brouhaha is all about here - not that MS is going to have a new game channel, but "they stole my cool saying!
All the other hipsters at Starbucks won't think I'm cool any more!
"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359651</id>
	<title>You didn't define independently or big</title>
	<author>tepples</author>
	<datestamp>1245240780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Indie music is music published independently.</p></div><p>Independently of what?</p><p><div class="quote"><p>If an indie game is taken up by a big publisher, its no longer indie.</p></div><p>For one thing, define "publisher". If Valve accepts a given developer's game for Steam, does that make Valve the "publisher"? If Microsoft accepts a given developer's game for Xbox Live Commu^W Indie Games, does that make Microsoft the "publisher"? Now define "big".</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Indie music is music published independently.Independently of what ? If an indie game is taken up by a big publisher , its no longer indie.For one thing , define " publisher " .
If Valve accepts a given developer 's game for Steam , does that make Valve the " publisher " ?
If Microsoft accepts a given developer 's game for Xbox Live Commu ^ W Indie Games , does that make Microsoft the " publisher " ?
Now define " big " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indie music is music published independently.Independently of what?If an indie game is taken up by a big publisher, its no longer indie.For one thing, define "publisher".
If Valve accepts a given developer's game for Steam, does that make Valve the "publisher"?
If Microsoft accepts a given developer's game for Xbox Live Commu^W Indie Games, does that make Microsoft the "publisher"?
Now define "big".
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359595</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359595</id>
	<title>Its like music</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245240360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Indie music is music published independently. Indie games are games published independently.

If an indie game is taken up by a big publisher, its no longer indie.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Indie music is music published independently .
Indie games are games published independently .
If an indie game is taken up by a big publisher , its no longer indie .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indie music is music published independently.
Indie games are games published independently.
If an indie game is taken up by a big publisher, its no longer indie.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28362575</id>
	<title>Re:Indie Developer Definition</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1245258840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I really wish there were a concise video on Youtube that would dramatize just that scenario. I could send every teenager to it who has ever told me "I'm thinking about making videogames" when asked about his career aspirations (with him assuming that making them will be as fun and easy as playing them, of course). I would also like similar videos for "rap star," "sports star," "actress," and "model."</htmltext>
<tokenext>I really wish there were a concise video on Youtube that would dramatize just that scenario .
I could send every teenager to it who has ever told me " I 'm thinking about making videogames " when asked about his career aspirations ( with him assuming that making them will be as fun and easy as playing them , of course ) .
I would also like similar videos for " rap star , " " sports star , " " actress , " and " model .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I really wish there were a concise video on Youtube that would dramatize just that scenario.
I could send every teenager to it who has ever told me "I'm thinking about making videogames" when asked about his career aspirations (with him assuming that making them will be as fun and easy as playing them, of course).
I would also like similar videos for "rap star," "sports star," "actress," and "model.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28359947</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28369355</id>
	<title>The how to guide</title>
	<author>Miamicoastguard</author>
	<datestamp>1245256980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>An indie game developer can be defined in a sense as "broke". It is very hard to make money with indie games but is it also very rewarding to be able to make games as you would like to be able to play them, no content is overlooked or disregarded due to deadlines. So often, <a href="http://skunkhunter.oxyhost.com/" title="oxyhost.com" rel="nofollow">games developed independently</a> [oxyhost.com] will show a great deal more depth and cerebral captivation than those developed in a big team corporate environment. However of course there are many exceptions on both sides. I still love to play Capitalism 2. They seemed to really do well with that one.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>An indie game developer can be defined in a sense as " broke " .
It is very hard to make money with indie games but is it also very rewarding to be able to make games as you would like to be able to play them , no content is overlooked or disregarded due to deadlines .
So often , games developed independently [ oxyhost.com ] will show a great deal more depth and cerebral captivation than those developed in a big team corporate environment .
However of course there are many exceptions on both sides .
I still love to play Capitalism 2 .
They seemed to really do well with that one .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An indie game developer can be defined in a sense as "broke".
It is very hard to make money with indie games but is it also very rewarding to be able to make games as you would like to be able to play them, no content is overlooked or disregarded due to deadlines.
So often, games developed independently [oxyhost.com] will show a great deal more depth and cerebral captivation than those developed in a big team corporate environment.
However of course there are many exceptions on both sides.
I still love to play Capitalism 2.
They seemed to really do well with that one.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28375657</id>
	<title>Re:The definition is not rocket science</title>
	<author>Brent Fox</author>
	<datestamp>1245346560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I will need to add this professional and armature reasoning to my list. So, to confirm my theory, do you have anther job and make games on the side and do you feel that it&#226;(TM)s unfair for the guys who get to spend all of their time making games to be directly compared to your games? It sounds like you may hope that you game gets published by a big publisher but you don&#226;(TM)t think that should change your &#226;oeindie&#226; status. Is this correct?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I will need to add this professional and armature reasoning to my list .
So , to confirm my theory , do you have anther job and make games on the side and do you feel that it   ( TM ) s unfair for the guys who get to spend all of their time making games to be directly compared to your games ?
It sounds like you may hope that you game gets published by a big publisher but you don   ( TM ) t think that should change your   oeindie   status .
Is this correct ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I will need to add this professional and armature reasoning to my list.
So, to confirm my theory, do you have anther job and make games on the side and do you feel that itâ(TM)s unfair for the guys who get to spend all of their time making games to be directly compared to your games?
It sounds like you may hope that you game gets published by a big publisher but you donâ(TM)t think that should change your âoeindieâ status.
Is this correct?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28360437</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_17_0559245.28362589</id>
	<title>Re:why xbox XNA development fails</title>
	<author>Cornflake917</author>
	<datestamp>1245258900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>OK Microsoft engineers put a LOT of very good effort into the XNA game development platform. And its a total failure. Let me explain why:</p></div><p>You can't call something a failure because your console RRoD's and you got shitty support.  That has nothing to do with XNA.  If you said XNA is a total failure because no one is playing the games, or no one is developing games with XNA (and then maybe provided some links), then I would believe.  You just seem bitter that you went through some B.S. with your 360.</p><p>I've been trolling the XNA forums for a few years.  There are hundreds of developers, and there is a thread where developers post how much money they are making.  While very few are hitting it big, most people are happy making a little cash from doing a hobby that they enjoy.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>So theres no advertisements for you, no "hey here is the best", nada.</p></div><p> <a href="http://forums.xna.com/forums/p/32332/186097.aspx" title="xna.com"> That's changing. </a> [xna.com] </p><p><div class="quote"><p>So far the iPhone seems a lot better-the only complaint there is LOTS of competition. Which I am OK with</p></div><p>You're comparing apples to oranges.  What if I wanted to develop an RTS or a multiplayer FPS?  The iPhone's limitations with it's input, memory, and processing power, severely limit the scope of games that developers can create.   Sure if my goal was to make maximum profit, I would try to make some cheezy time-waster and sell it on the iPhone.  If I wanted to develop an original idea that pushes the limits, I would prefer developing for something more robust.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>OK Microsoft engineers put a LOT of very good effort into the XNA game development platform .
And its a total failure .
Let me explain why : You ca n't call something a failure because your console RRoD 's and you got shitty support .
That has nothing to do with XNA .
If you said XNA is a total failure because no one is playing the games , or no one is developing games with XNA ( and then maybe provided some links ) , then I would believe .
You just seem bitter that you went through some B.S .
with your 360.I 've been trolling the XNA forums for a few years .
There are hundreds of developers , and there is a thread where developers post how much money they are making .
While very few are hitting it big , most people are happy making a little cash from doing a hobby that they enjoy.So theres no advertisements for you , no " hey here is the best " , nada .
That 's changing .
[ xna.com ] So far the iPhone seems a lot better-the only complaint there is LOTS of competition .
Which I am OK withYou 're comparing apples to oranges .
What if I wanted to develop an RTS or a multiplayer FPS ?
The iPhone 's limitations with it 's input , memory , and processing power , severely limit the scope of games that developers can create .
Sure if my goal was to make maximum profit , I would try to make some cheezy time-waster and sell it on the iPhone .
If I wanted to develop an original idea that pushes the limits , I would prefer developing for something more robust .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>OK Microsoft engineers put a LOT of very good effort into the XNA game development platform.
And its a total failure.
Let me explain why:You can't call something a failure because your console RRoD's and you got shitty support.
That has nothing to do with XNA.
If you said XNA is a total failure because no one is playing the games, or no one is developing games with XNA (and then maybe provided some links), then I would believe.
You just seem bitter that you went through some B.S.
with your 360.I've been trolling the XNA forums for a few years.
There are hundreds of developers, and there is a thread where developers post how much money they are making.
While very few are hitting it big, most people are happy making a little cash from doing a hobby that they enjoy.So theres no advertisements for you, no "hey here is the best", nada.
That's changing.
[xna.com] So far the iPhone seems a lot better-the only complaint there is LOTS of competition.
Which I am OK withYou're comparing apples to oranges.
What if I wanted to develop an RTS or a multiplayer FPS?
The iPhone's limitations with it's input, memory, and processing power, severely limit the scope of games that developers can create.
Sure if my goal was to make maximum profit, I would try to make some cheezy time-waster and sell it on the iPhone.
If I wanted to develop an original idea that pushes the limits, I would prefer developing for something more robust.
	</sentencetext>
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