<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_10_0510213</id>
	<title><em>Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online</em> Goes Free-To-Play</title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1244631960000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><em>Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online</em> developer Turbine has announced that they'll be launching a new version of the game, called <em>Eberron Unlimited</em>, which <a href="http://www.massively.com/2009/06/09/ddo-adds-free-to-play-with-eberron-unlimited/">makes it free to play</a>, with the option of using micro-transactions to buy certain items and customize characters. Players will also be able to earn points through normal play that they can spend in the <em>DDO</em> Store. There's an additional option to pay a normal subscription fee for priority access to servers, a monthly allotment of points for the store, and extra character slots. <a href="http://content.turbine.com/pages/www.ddo.com/beta\_signup/index.php?utm\_source=ddo\_com">Further details and a sign-up for the beta</a> are available at the game's website.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online developer Turbine has announced that they 'll be launching a new version of the game , called Eberron Unlimited , which makes it free to play , with the option of using micro-transactions to buy certain items and customize characters .
Players will also be able to earn points through normal play that they can spend in the DDO Store .
There 's an additional option to pay a normal subscription fee for priority access to servers , a monthly allotment of points for the store , and extra character slots .
Further details and a sign-up for the beta are available at the game 's website .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online developer Turbine has announced that they'll be launching a new version of the game, called Eberron Unlimited, which makes it free to play, with the option of using micro-transactions to buy certain items and customize characters.
Players will also be able to earn points through normal play that they can spend in the DDO Store.
There's an additional option to pay a normal subscription fee for priority access to servers, a monthly allotment of points for the store, and extra character slots.
Further details and a sign-up for the beta are available at the game's website.</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278549</id>
	<title>Free only makes it suck marginally less...</title>
	<author>theghost</author>
	<datestamp>1244644140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After the beta i said i wouldn't play that piece of crap if they paid me. This changes nothing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After the beta i said i would n't play that piece of crap if they paid me .
This changes nothing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After the beta i said i wouldn't play that piece of crap if they paid me.
This changes nothing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277513</id>
	<title>First play!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244635740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>+5 Insightful<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... ?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>+ 5 Insightful ... ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>+5 Insightful ... ?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28398741</id>
	<title>Great move :)</title>
	<author>Michael101</author>
	<datestamp>1245426840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This would be big for them, It would make them more popular, since every body is looking for something free. Its a no brainer really. Free games = more traffic which in turns = more advertising dollars<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>This would be big for them , It would make them more popular , since every body is looking for something free .
Its a no brainer really .
Free games = more traffic which in turns = more advertising dollars : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This would be big for them, It would make them more popular, since every body is looking for something free.
Its a no brainer really.
Free games = more traffic which in turns = more advertising dollars :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277807</id>
	<title>Will give it a try</title>
	<author>Luc1fel</author>
	<datestamp>1244639040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I haven't played an MMO since Guild Wars went stale. I'll hold my opinion until I try and see it for myself, but I'm craving for a good fantasy RPG, so anything decent will keep me satisfied for awhile at least.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have n't played an MMO since Guild Wars went stale .
I 'll hold my opinion until I try and see it for myself , but I 'm craving for a good fantasy RPG , so anything decent will keep me satisfied for awhile at least .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I haven't played an MMO since Guild Wars went stale.
I'll hold my opinion until I try and see it for myself, but I'm craving for a good fantasy RPG, so anything decent will keep me satisfied for awhile at least.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277775</id>
	<title>Re:They let anyone on these days...</title>
	<author>PolarBearFire</author>
	<datestamp>1244638800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What are you talking about?
I've been playing Runes of Magic, which seems to me the same free-to-play but pay-for-extras model, for a month and none of the things you say happens, happens.  All of my interactions with other players have been civil and mature.  I've never played WoW so griefing may be common there but since it doesn't happen in Runes of Magic, a free game, your theory goes out the window.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What are you talking about ?
I 've been playing Runes of Magic , which seems to me the same free-to-play but pay-for-extras model , for a month and none of the things you say happens , happens .
All of my interactions with other players have been civil and mature .
I 've never played WoW so griefing may be common there but since it does n't happen in Runes of Magic , a free game , your theory goes out the window .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What are you talking about?
I've been playing Runes of Magic, which seems to me the same free-to-play but pay-for-extras model, for a month and none of the things you say happens, happens.
All of my interactions with other players have been civil and mature.
I've never played WoW so griefing may be common there but since it doesn't happen in Runes of Magic, a free game, your theory goes out the window.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277887</id>
	<title>Re:Stop asking for the other kind of free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244639820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't the whole point of open source to make software better and more effective? And isn't the point to kill as many enemies as possible?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't the whole point of open source to make software better and more effective ?
And is n't the point to kill as many enemies as possible ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't the whole point of open source to make software better and more effective?
And isn't the point to kill as many enemies as possible?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28280673</id>
	<title>I'm reading about WoW PvP...</title>
	<author>emanem</author>
	<datestamp>1244653200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And I must say, after 4 years of playing WoW, mainly pvping (got 2 chars at rank 11 and in TBC always rates ~2000 in arena) I just played at SF4 on PS3 and acutally I found a proper PvP game.<br>
When you can only blame yourself (or the pad - but I'm getting a proper pad) if you lose and not the <b>luck</b> or the <b>FOTM</b> combo (Flavor Of The Month), and the game is actually balanced, plus it <b>does not</b> require grinding, well... I think my experience with WoW and mainly all MMORPGS is definitely suspended, not to say over...<br>Cheers<br>
Ps. I 've read so many comments about WoW PvP, so I urged to post one...</htmltext>
<tokenext>And I must say , after 4 years of playing WoW , mainly pvping ( got 2 chars at rank 11 and in TBC always rates ~ 2000 in arena ) I just played at SF4 on PS3 and acutally I found a proper PvP game .
When you can only blame yourself ( or the pad - but I 'm getting a proper pad ) if you lose and not the luck or the FOTM combo ( Flavor Of The Month ) , and the game is actually balanced , plus it does not require grinding , well... I think my experience with WoW and mainly all MMORPGS is definitely suspended , not to say over...Cheers Ps .
I 've read so many comments about WoW PvP , so I urged to post one.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I must say, after 4 years of playing WoW, mainly pvping (got 2 chars at rank 11 and in TBC always rates ~2000 in arena) I just played at SF4 on PS3 and acutally I found a proper PvP game.
When you can only blame yourself (or the pad - but I'm getting a proper pad) if you lose and not the luck or the FOTM combo (Flavor Of The Month), and the game is actually balanced, plus it does not require grinding, well... I think my experience with WoW and mainly all MMORPGS is definitely suspended, not to say over...Cheers
Ps.
I 've read so many comments about WoW PvP, so I urged to post one...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278253</id>
	<title>Re:They Made D&amp;D Online?</title>
	<author>gardyloo</author>
	<datestamp>1244642460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I'd wager you would also get some people to kick in $5 extra a month for<b>,</b> say<b>,</b> 40-and-older servers<b>, and</b> for people <b>who</b> still remember how to spell <b>O.K.</b>.</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd wager you would also get some people to kick in $ 5 extra a month for , say , 40-and-older servers , and for people who still remember how to spell O.K. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd wager you would also get some people to kick in $5 extra a month for, say, 40-and-older servers, and for people who still remember how to spell O.K..
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278667</id>
	<title>Better than the beta?</title>
	<author>antdude</author>
	<datestamp>1244644680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Has the game improved since the beta tests? I didn't like it much during beta compared to WoW.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Has the game improved since the beta tests ?
I did n't like it much during beta compared to WoW .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Has the game improved since the beta tests?
I didn't like it much during beta compared to WoW.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28284669</id>
	<title>Re:I'd love to see the IP free up....</title>
	<author>moorewr</author>
	<datestamp>1244625960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wizards may have chosen the setting, but Turbine did some things very well. From my perspective you couldn't be more wrong about the combat - that is THE way to take a turn based table-top game and make it a real time FPS.</p><p>Did you play it? How far did you get?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wizards may have chosen the setting , but Turbine did some things very well .
From my perspective you could n't be more wrong about the combat - that is THE way to take a turn based table-top game and make it a real time FPS.Did you play it ?
How far did you get ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wizards may have chosen the setting, but Turbine did some things very well.
From my perspective you couldn't be more wrong about the combat - that is THE way to take a turn based table-top game and make it a real time FPS.Did you play it?
How far did you get?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277989</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28279475</id>
	<title>"Unlimited" eh?</title>
	<author>tomzyk</author>
	<datestamp>1244647920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe it's just too early in the morning, but am I really reading this correctly off of that one hyperlink in the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. article summary?</p><blockquote><div><p>Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online: Eberron <b>Unlimited</b><br>Guts: use them or lose them in DDO Unlimited. Get unlimited combat, unlimited adventure, and unlimited fun without a credit card or a subscription when DDO Unlimited launches later this summer.<br>- <b>Level cap</b> raised to the natural limit of 20<br>-<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p></div></blockquote><p>Unlimited... with a HIGHER limit!!!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe it 's just too early in the morning , but am I really reading this correctly off of that one hyperlink in the / .
article summary ? Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online : Eberron UnlimitedGuts : use them or lose them in DDO Unlimited .
Get unlimited combat , unlimited adventure , and unlimited fun without a credit card or a subscription when DDO Unlimited launches later this summer.- Level cap raised to the natural limit of 20- ...Unlimited... with a HIGHER limit ! !
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe it's just too early in the morning, but am I really reading this correctly off of that one hyperlink in the /.
article summary?Dungeons &amp; Dragons Online: Eberron UnlimitedGuts: use them or lose them in DDO Unlimited.
Get unlimited combat, unlimited adventure, and unlimited fun without a credit card or a subscription when DDO Unlimited launches later this summer.- Level cap raised to the natural limit of 20- ...Unlimited... with a HIGHER limit!!
!
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277533</id>
	<title>They let anyone on these days...</title>
	<author>Blue23</author>
	<datestamp>1244636160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When people can play for free, there's little incentive not to be a griefer or otherwise annoying if that's what you like.  Create a new anonymous account and spam Chuck Norris jokes, steal kills, etc.</p><p>Having just pay-for-play sets a threshold.  You'll still have annoying players, but not as many.  I'd want a "Play at +1, ignore Anonymous Cowards" option for the "VIP" (for-pay) accounts.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When people can play for free , there 's little incentive not to be a griefer or otherwise annoying if that 's what you like .
Create a new anonymous account and spam Chuck Norris jokes , steal kills , etc.Having just pay-for-play sets a threshold .
You 'll still have annoying players , but not as many .
I 'd want a " Play at + 1 , ignore Anonymous Cowards " option for the " VIP " ( for-pay ) accounts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When people can play for free, there's little incentive not to be a griefer or otherwise annoying if that's what you like.
Create a new anonymous account and spam Chuck Norris jokes, steal kills, etc.Having just pay-for-play sets a threshold.
You'll still have annoying players, but not as many.
I'd want a "Play at +1, ignore Anonymous Cowards" option for the "VIP" (for-pay) accounts.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28281473</id>
	<title>I'm actually excited...</title>
	<author>n00btastic</author>
	<datestamp>1244656200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>They will let me earn points to spend in the store? I won't actually be penalized for not having any money?

I understand that all of you 'hard core' gamers are upset that you will have to deal with all the kids, but as a college student I really only play video games every once in awhile anyway.

I have tried and hated most of those 'free' MMO's, and am not willing to sell my soul to the gods of Blizzard. I hope this game is everything it says it is, and if so, I will click on whatever ads they ask.

-n00b</htmltext>
<tokenext>They will let me earn points to spend in the store ?
I wo n't actually be penalized for not having any money ?
I understand that all of you 'hard core ' gamers are upset that you will have to deal with all the kids , but as a college student I really only play video games every once in awhile anyway .
I have tried and hated most of those 'free ' MMO 's , and am not willing to sell my soul to the gods of Blizzard .
I hope this game is everything it says it is , and if so , I will click on whatever ads they ask .
-n00b</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They will let me earn points to spend in the store?
I won't actually be penalized for not having any money?
I understand that all of you 'hard core' gamers are upset that you will have to deal with all the kids, but as a college student I really only play video games every once in awhile anyway.
I have tried and hated most of those 'free' MMO's, and am not willing to sell my soul to the gods of Blizzard.
I hope this game is everything it says it is, and if so, I will click on whatever ads they ask.
-n00b</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277669</id>
	<title>Whos going to play it?</title>
	<author>RiotingPacifist</author>
	<datestamp>1244637660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I thought they just burned all their fans using copyright law, aren't we supposed to hate these guys ATM?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I thought they just burned all their fans using copyright law , are n't we supposed to hate these guys ATM ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I thought they just burned all their fans using copyright law, aren't we supposed to hate these guys ATM?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277547</id>
	<title>Last-ditch effort</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244636280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>DDO has never had the subscriber base to really support the game. This is a last-ditch effort to make the game profitable. Expect the whole thing go down the crapper if it doesn't fly.</p><p>If Turbine would only understand that people reject their otherwise fairly competent MMOs because both DDO and LOTRO suffer from terrible animation quality, clunky animation system and poor client-side prediction (leading to stutering and warping of characters). Their current MMO engine just doesn't cut it. Doesn't matter how good content you have on top of the unsound foundation.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DDO has never had the subscriber base to really support the game .
This is a last-ditch effort to make the game profitable .
Expect the whole thing go down the crapper if it does n't fly.If Turbine would only understand that people reject their otherwise fairly competent MMOs because both DDO and LOTRO suffer from terrible animation quality , clunky animation system and poor client-side prediction ( leading to stutering and warping of characters ) .
Their current MMO engine just does n't cut it .
Does n't matter how good content you have on top of the unsound foundation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DDO has never had the subscriber base to really support the game.
This is a last-ditch effort to make the game profitable.
Expect the whole thing go down the crapper if it doesn't fly.If Turbine would only understand that people reject their otherwise fairly competent MMOs because both DDO and LOTRO suffer from terrible animation quality, clunky animation system and poor client-side prediction (leading to stutering and warping of characters).
Their current MMO engine just doesn't cut it.
Doesn't matter how good content you have on top of the unsound foundation.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277613</id>
	<title>Microtransactions suck</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244637000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>I don't pay items and gear.  I win and earn them.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... Or I use a stolen credit card number</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't pay items and gear .
I win and earn them .
.... Or I use a stolen credit card number</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't pay items and gear.
I win and earn them.
.... Or I use a stolen credit card number</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278317</id>
	<title>Re:Stop asking for the other kind of free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244642880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As the other poster had touched upon, there is a limit to the amount of input validation that can be accomplished because of simple economic/performance constraints.<br>
<br>
MMO's are in-general spartan as far as information passed back-and-forth because if it was any different, the servers would need a lot more bandwidth. This is also true for multi-player FPS's.<br>
<br>
Because of this, it is imperative that they DO hide the weaknesses behind a veil of secracy. A good example of this is Diablo II, where the entire level instance is transmitted once to the client. The server cannot afford the bandwidth to be constantly updating the map as the player explores, nor can it afford the memory required to keep a sanity copy in order to detect when the client is displaying things it shouldn't.<br>
<br>
At its height in popularity, there were easily times with a hundreds of thousands of Diablo II players playing simultaneously worldwide. Each server had to handle thousands of players, so the servers were responsible for very little that wasn't absolutely essential as a result.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As the other poster had touched upon , there is a limit to the amount of input validation that can be accomplished because of simple economic/performance constraints .
MMO 's are in-general spartan as far as information passed back-and-forth because if it was any different , the servers would need a lot more bandwidth .
This is also true for multi-player FPS 's .
Because of this , it is imperative that they DO hide the weaknesses behind a veil of secracy .
A good example of this is Diablo II , where the entire level instance is transmitted once to the client .
The server can not afford the bandwidth to be constantly updating the map as the player explores , nor can it afford the memory required to keep a sanity copy in order to detect when the client is displaying things it should n't .
At its height in popularity , there were easily times with a hundreds of thousands of Diablo II players playing simultaneously worldwide .
Each server had to handle thousands of players , so the servers were responsible for very little that was n't absolutely essential as a result .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As the other poster had touched upon, there is a limit to the amount of input validation that can be accomplished because of simple economic/performance constraints.
MMO's are in-general spartan as far as information passed back-and-forth because if it was any different, the servers would need a lot more bandwidth.
This is also true for multi-player FPS's.
Because of this, it is imperative that they DO hide the weaknesses behind a veil of secracy.
A good example of this is Diablo II, where the entire level instance is transmitted once to the client.
The server cannot afford the bandwidth to be constantly updating the map as the player explores, nor can it afford the memory required to keep a sanity copy in order to detect when the client is displaying things it shouldn't.
At its height in popularity, there were easily times with a hundreds of thousands of Diablo II players playing simultaneously worldwide.
Each server had to handle thousands of players, so the servers were responsible for very little that wasn't absolutely essential as a result.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277847</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28280059</id>
	<title>Re:They Made D&amp;D Online?</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1244650440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"the 10 year olds playing..."<br>I am a father, my children are 8 and 11. trust me, those people are over 21.</p><p>No 10 year old would act that way. You either have to be doing it on purpose for a kick, or really not belong in socitety to behave that way.</p><p>If there was a 8-12 year old server, I would lie to play on it. There would be almost no griefing, and people would be relatively polite.</p><p>Hmmm. That sounded far creepier then it should.</p><p>The only approach I can think of that might work is to ahve a server that is heavily moderated and people are banned reasonably often.</p><p>Actually this is DND, just threaten to take a level a stat point and there best magic item.<br>That would shut them up right quick.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" the 10 year olds playing... " I am a father , my children are 8 and 11. trust me , those people are over 21.No 10 year old would act that way .
You either have to be doing it on purpose for a kick , or really not belong in socitety to behave that way.If there was a 8-12 year old server , I would lie to play on it .
There would be almost no griefing , and people would be relatively polite.Hmmm .
That sounded far creepier then it should.The only approach I can think of that might work is to ahve a server that is heavily moderated and people are banned reasonably often.Actually this is DND , just threaten to take a level a stat point and there best magic item.That would shut them up right quick .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"the 10 year olds playing..."I am a father, my children are 8 and 11. trust me, those people are over 21.No 10 year old would act that way.
You either have to be doing it on purpose for a kick, or really not belong in socitety to behave that way.If there was a 8-12 year old server, I would lie to play on it.
There would be almost no griefing, and people would be relatively polite.Hmmm.
That sounded far creepier then it should.The only approach I can think of that might work is to ahve a server that is heavily moderated and people are banned reasonably often.Actually this is DND, just threaten to take a level a stat point and there best magic item.That would shut them up right quick.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28281805</id>
	<title>Need Mac client</title>
	<author>chrish</author>
	<datestamp>1244657520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd try it again (played a bit during beta) if there was a Mac client.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd try it again ( played a bit during beta ) if there was a Mac client .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd try it again (played a bit during beta) if there was a Mac client.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28283113</id>
	<title>Re:Last-ditch effort</title>
	<author>johnbr</author>
	<datestamp>1244662800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Normal people don't reject MMOs because of stuttering and warping (neither of which happens in DDO, btw).
<br>
Normal people reject MMOs because they aren't fun.  DDO has had problems getting content out the door on a timely basis, and in some of the bells-and-whistles of housing and customization.  That is where it has struggled.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Normal people do n't reject MMOs because of stuttering and warping ( neither of which happens in DDO , btw ) .
Normal people reject MMOs because they are n't fun .
DDO has had problems getting content out the door on a timely basis , and in some of the bells-and-whistles of housing and customization .
That is where it has struggled .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Normal people don't reject MMOs because of stuttering and warping (neither of which happens in DDO, btw).
Normal people reject MMOs because they aren't fun.
DDO has had problems getting content out the door on a timely basis, and in some of the bells-and-whistles of housing and customization.
That is where it has struggled.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277547</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28291225</id>
	<title>Re:They let anyone on these days...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244722800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>DDO is almost exclusivly instanced contnet, There is no ganking, kill stealing, or greifing. About the only thing you can do to someone is send anoying tells, and that would just get you ignored and reported.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DDO is almost exclusivly instanced contnet , There is no ganking , kill stealing , or greifing .
About the only thing you can do to someone is send anoying tells , and that would just get you ignored and reported .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DDO is almost exclusivly instanced contnet, There is no ganking, kill stealing, or greifing.
About the only thing you can do to someone is send anoying tells, and that would just get you ignored and reported.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28284643</id>
	<title>Re:They let anyone on these days...</title>
	<author>moorewr</author>
	<datestamp>1244625780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>DDO is instanced; the only un-instanced areas are public areas and PVP pits. The most a griefer can do is try to trick into letting them in your party or annoy in public places. Either way they can't kill you, and they can't get your stuff.</p><p>That said I suspect F2P will make my ignore list much bigger.</p><p>As to why you would play DDO.. for one thing it has the best combat of any MMO. Fast, real-time, twitch driven. It has no competitors there except for late unlamented Hellgate. And many of the rules still resemble D&amp;D v3.5.</p><p>It's the only MMO I have stuck with, and I have tried many. WoW? No way.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>DDO is instanced ; the only un-instanced areas are public areas and PVP pits .
The most a griefer can do is try to trick into letting them in your party or annoy in public places .
Either way they ca n't kill you , and they ca n't get your stuff.That said I suspect F2P will make my ignore list much bigger.As to why you would play DDO.. for one thing it has the best combat of any MMO .
Fast , real-time , twitch driven .
It has no competitors there except for late unlamented Hellgate .
And many of the rules still resemble D&amp;D v3.5.It 's the only MMO I have stuck with , and I have tried many .
WoW ? No way .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>DDO is instanced; the only un-instanced areas are public areas and PVP pits.
The most a griefer can do is try to trick into letting them in your party or annoy in public places.
Either way they can't kill you, and they can't get your stuff.That said I suspect F2P will make my ignore list much bigger.As to why you would play DDO.. for one thing it has the best combat of any MMO.
Fast, real-time, twitch driven.
It has no competitors there except for late unlamented Hellgate.
And many of the rules still resemble D&amp;D v3.5.It's the only MMO I have stuck with, and I have tried many.
WoW? No way.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28279143</id>
	<title>Re:Stop asking for the other kind of free</title>
	<author>Delwin</author>
	<datestamp>1244646720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Don't bother with trying to secure the client - it won't work.  Just verify everything server side that you actually care about and let them do whatever they want with the client.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Do n't bother with trying to secure the client - it wo n't work .
Just verify everything server side that you actually care about and let them do whatever they want with the client .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Don't bother with trying to secure the client - it won't work.
Just verify everything server side that you actually care about and let them do whatever they want with the client.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277847</id>
	<title>Re:Stop asking for the other kind of free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244639460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Only if you are an idiot.  The first rule of client-server programming is don't trust the client.  Don't give the client any more data than it needs, validate all messages from the client.  Things like wall hacks only work because the server is providing the client with too much information.  Speed hacks only work because the server is allowing the client to move more than the correct amount (i.e. not validating the input).  As for tripling the size of on-screen enemies and aimbots; if your game depends so much on your ability to click accurately on small things to be fun, the odds are that it isn't.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Only if you are an idiot .
The first rule of client-server programming is do n't trust the client .
Do n't give the client any more data than it needs , validate all messages from the client .
Things like wall hacks only work because the server is providing the client with too much information .
Speed hacks only work because the server is allowing the client to move more than the correct amount ( i.e .
not validating the input ) .
As for tripling the size of on-screen enemies and aimbots ; if your game depends so much on your ability to click accurately on small things to be fun , the odds are that it is n't .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Only if you are an idiot.
The first rule of client-server programming is don't trust the client.
Don't give the client any more data than it needs, validate all messages from the client.
Things like wall hacks only work because the server is providing the client with too much information.
Speed hacks only work because the server is allowing the client to move more than the correct amount (i.e.
not validating the input).
As for tripling the size of on-screen enemies and aimbots; if your game depends so much on your ability to click accurately on small things to be fun, the odds are that it isn't.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278437</id>
	<title>Re:Stop asking for the other kind of free</title>
	<author>somersault</author>
	<datestamp>1244643600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Things like wall hacks only work because the server is providing the client with too much information</p></div><p>Games might suck a little without sound - and it would be a bit much having to render all the sound on the server.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>if your game depends so much on your ability to click accurately on small things to be fun, the odds are that it isn't.</p></div><p>I don't know, I've had a lot of fun playing games like Counter-Strike where if you're good you can take someone out with one shot to the head (you can also do spray and pray and it's still fun and feasible with the right tactics, but you're more likely to die than if you take people out with razor-like precision). Games where you repeatedly have to pummel hundreds of shots into anywhere on a player's body are generally quite tedious in comparison IMO.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Things like wall hacks only work because the server is providing the client with too much informationGames might suck a little without sound - and it would be a bit much having to render all the sound on the server.if your game depends so much on your ability to click accurately on small things to be fun , the odds are that it is n't.I do n't know , I 've had a lot of fun playing games like Counter-Strike where if you 're good you can take someone out with one shot to the head ( you can also do spray and pray and it 's still fun and feasible with the right tactics , but you 're more likely to die than if you take people out with razor-like precision ) .
Games where you repeatedly have to pummel hundreds of shots into anywhere on a player 's body are generally quite tedious in comparison IMO .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Things like wall hacks only work because the server is providing the client with too much informationGames might suck a little without sound - and it would be a bit much having to render all the sound on the server.if your game depends so much on your ability to click accurately on small things to be fun, the odds are that it isn't.I don't know, I've had a lot of fun playing games like Counter-Strike where if you're good you can take someone out with one shot to the head (you can also do spray and pray and it's still fun and feasible with the right tactics, but you're more likely to die than if you take people out with razor-like precision).
Games where you repeatedly have to pummel hundreds of shots into anywhere on a player's body are generally quite tedious in comparison IMO.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277847</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28280033</id>
	<title>Re:They Made D&amp;D Online?</title>
	<author>psychicninja</author>
	<datestamp>1244650320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>Seriously D&amp;D Online must have sucked pretty bad for flying this low under the radar and making a free-to-play version sounds like a really really bad idea...</p></div></blockquote><p>

Yes, your ignorance is clearly the standard by which all MMOs should be judged.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Seriously D&amp;D Online must have sucked pretty bad for flying this low under the radar and making a free-to-play version sounds like a really really bad idea.. . Yes , your ignorance is clearly the standard by which all MMOs should be judged .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Seriously D&amp;D Online must have sucked pretty bad for flying this low under the radar and making a free-to-play version sounds like a really really bad idea...

Yes, your ignorance is clearly the standard by which all MMOs should be judged.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278353</id>
	<title>Re:They let anyone on these days...</title>
	<author>elrous0</author>
	<datestamp>1244643060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ha, I met way more griefers on WoW than I ever did on Guild Wars. And if you ever want to visit griefer central, try out EVE sometime (also with a monthly charge).
</p><p>
It all comes down to the maturity of the crowd, and immature teenagers and assholes don't have any problem affording $15 a month.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ha , I met way more griefers on WoW than I ever did on Guild Wars .
And if you ever want to visit griefer central , try out EVE sometime ( also with a monthly charge ) .
It all comes down to the maturity of the crowd , and immature teenagers and assholes do n't have any problem affording $ 15 a month .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ha, I met way more griefers on WoW than I ever did on Guild Wars.
And if you ever want to visit griefer central, try out EVE sometime (also with a monthly charge).
It all comes down to the maturity of the crowd, and immature teenagers and assholes don't have any problem affording $15 a month.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28319281</id>
	<title>Re:They Made D&amp;D Online?</title>
	<author>justinlee37</author>
	<datestamp>1244902440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> <i>The whole point why successful dating services (yeah who would have throught MMOs and Dating Services had something in common) charge is to create a cost-of-entry that separates serious participants from the rest of the population.</i> </p><p>Okcupid.com is a successful dating service without a "cost-of-entry."</p><p>Your rationale is suspect. It seems to me that the cost-of-entry makes the paid dating services less desirable, since you're putting a limit on the number of possible contacts which dampens the value of the product. Do you think that very many people would use AOL Instant Messenger if they had to pay for it? Do you think that very many people would keep using the old AOL service if they couldn't give AIM to their non-AOL using friends?</p><p>Personally I think that dating services which charge a fee are crap and not worth the time or the money. I also feel sorry for you if you think that an important prerequisite for a mate is that they should be desperate enough for a date to pay $20+ up front for the chance to meet someone and have enough free money to do so. You might be missing out on some things in life.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The whole point why successful dating services ( yeah who would have throught MMOs and Dating Services had something in common ) charge is to create a cost-of-entry that separates serious participants from the rest of the population .
Okcupid.com is a successful dating service without a " cost-of-entry .
" Your rationale is suspect .
It seems to me that the cost-of-entry makes the paid dating services less desirable , since you 're putting a limit on the number of possible contacts which dampens the value of the product .
Do you think that very many people would use AOL Instant Messenger if they had to pay for it ?
Do you think that very many people would keep using the old AOL service if they could n't give AIM to their non-AOL using friends ? Personally I think that dating services which charge a fee are crap and not worth the time or the money .
I also feel sorry for you if you think that an important prerequisite for a mate is that they should be desperate enough for a date to pay $ 20 + up front for the chance to meet someone and have enough free money to do so .
You might be missing out on some things in life .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> The whole point why successful dating services (yeah who would have throught MMOs and Dating Services had something in common) charge is to create a cost-of-entry that separates serious participants from the rest of the population.
Okcupid.com is a successful dating service without a "cost-of-entry.
"Your rationale is suspect.
It seems to me that the cost-of-entry makes the paid dating services less desirable, since you're putting a limit on the number of possible contacts which dampens the value of the product.
Do you think that very many people would use AOL Instant Messenger if they had to pay for it?
Do you think that very many people would keep using the old AOL service if they couldn't give AIM to their non-AOL using friends?Personally I think that dating services which charge a fee are crap and not worth the time or the money.
I also feel sorry for you if you think that an important prerequisite for a mate is that they should be desperate enough for a date to pay $20+ up front for the chance to meet someone and have enough free money to do so.
You might be missing out on some things in life.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28282403</id>
	<title>Re:They let anyone on these days...</title>
	<author>ground.zero.612</author>
	<datestamp>1244659860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>You've obviously never played an instance based MMO. Kinda hard to steal kills and loot in DDO, and with the voice chat and friends system it's easy to mark a griefer and avoid them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 've obviously never played an instance based MMO .
Kinda hard to steal kills and loot in DDO , and with the voice chat and friends system it 's easy to mark a griefer and avoid them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You've obviously never played an instance based MMO.
Kinda hard to steal kills and loot in DDO, and with the voice chat and friends system it's easy to mark a griefer and avoid them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28282891</id>
	<title>Re:They let anyone on these days...</title>
	<author>johnbr</author>
	<datestamp>1244661960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Because of its instanced nature, DDO is not as vulnerable to griefing as other games that are open-world.
<br>
It's just one of the things that I prefer about DDO, compared to other MMOs.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Because of its instanced nature , DDO is not as vulnerable to griefing as other games that are open-world .
It 's just one of the things that I prefer about DDO , compared to other MMOs .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Because of its instanced nature, DDO is not as vulnerable to griefing as other games that are open-world.
It's just one of the things that I prefer about DDO, compared to other MMOs.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28280901</id>
	<title>Re:They Made D&amp;D Online?</title>
	<author>kalirion</author>
	<datestamp>1244653980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>I'd wager you would also get some people to kick in $5 extra a month for say 40 and older servers also for people that still remember how to spell OKAY.</i></p><p>I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 40 year old who still writes/types "Okay."</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd wager you would also get some people to kick in $ 5 extra a month for say 40 and older servers also for people that still remember how to spell OKAY.I think you 'd be hard pressed to find a 40 year old who still writes/types " Okay .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd wager you would also get some people to kick in $5 extra a month for say 40 and older servers also for people that still remember how to spell OKAY.I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 40 year old who still writes/types "Okay.
"</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278847</id>
	<title>Turbine should use purchased content packs.</title>
	<author>stratman4300</author>
	<datestamp>1244645460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In my opinion if your going to go with Free-to-play, it's usually pretty smart to release frequent content packs that players have to pay for. I know, I know, It kind of defeats the whole Free-to-play idea but it does give the developer incentive to release more quality content than say a game like Runescape. I can see this game easily going the way of Runescape(but with better graphics and mechanics obviously) unless they're really careful with it.

One major MMO that has followed that business model and it has worked beautifully for them: Guild Wars.

Guild wars is still my favorite MMO and they run a free to play service. Just, when they release new content they do it in the form of an Expansion pack, that you can purchase from their online site or in stores. I think this still helps with the "Free-to-play-alot of 10 year olds" problem. I've played Guild wars for about 3 years and can only think of about 3 instances where i was seriously annoyed at someone being immature.

Time will tell i suppose.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In my opinion if your going to go with Free-to-play , it 's usually pretty smart to release frequent content packs that players have to pay for .
I know , I know , It kind of defeats the whole Free-to-play idea but it does give the developer incentive to release more quality content than say a game like Runescape .
I can see this game easily going the way of Runescape ( but with better graphics and mechanics obviously ) unless they 're really careful with it .
One major MMO that has followed that business model and it has worked beautifully for them : Guild Wars .
Guild wars is still my favorite MMO and they run a free to play service .
Just , when they release new content they do it in the form of an Expansion pack , that you can purchase from their online site or in stores .
I think this still helps with the " Free-to-play-alot of 10 year olds " problem .
I 've played Guild wars for about 3 years and can only think of about 3 instances where i was seriously annoyed at someone being immature .
Time will tell i suppose .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In my opinion if your going to go with Free-to-play, it's usually pretty smart to release frequent content packs that players have to pay for.
I know, I know, It kind of defeats the whole Free-to-play idea but it does give the developer incentive to release more quality content than say a game like Runescape.
I can see this game easily going the way of Runescape(but with better graphics and mechanics obviously) unless they're really careful with it.
One major MMO that has followed that business model and it has worked beautifully for them: Guild Wars.
Guild wars is still my favorite MMO and they run a free to play service.
Just, when they release new content they do it in the form of an Expansion pack, that you can purchase from their online site or in stores.
I think this still helps with the "Free-to-play-alot of 10 year olds" problem.
I've played Guild wars for about 3 years and can only think of about 3 instances where i was seriously annoyed at someone being immature.
Time will tell i suppose.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278991</id>
	<title>Pay2play</title>
	<author>Luc1fel</author>
	<datestamp>1244646060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I see a lot of people saying that free = bad, and paying = good because it raises the player quality. How so?<br> <br>
I'm 23 years old, with very little free time to spend on gaming. When I was younger, I had the time and the money to spend on games. Right now, I'm not ready to dish out any kind of monthly or similar subscription because I won't be getting my money's worth back. As I see it, most of the gaming population willing to pay subscriptions are the ones with the free time to spare and mostly pre-college/work pupils.<br> <br>Also, as already pointed out, paying for the game does not prevent stupid players from accessing the game, but I agree that making a bad game free won't make it better.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I see a lot of people saying that free = bad , and paying = good because it raises the player quality .
How so ?
I 'm 23 years old , with very little free time to spend on gaming .
When I was younger , I had the time and the money to spend on games .
Right now , I 'm not ready to dish out any kind of monthly or similar subscription because I wo n't be getting my money 's worth back .
As I see it , most of the gaming population willing to pay subscriptions are the ones with the free time to spare and mostly pre-college/work pupils .
Also , as already pointed out , paying for the game does not prevent stupid players from accessing the game , but I agree that making a bad game free wo n't make it better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see a lot of people saying that free = bad, and paying = good because it raises the player quality.
How so?
I'm 23 years old, with very little free time to spend on gaming.
When I was younger, I had the time and the money to spend on games.
Right now, I'm not ready to dish out any kind of monthly or similar subscription because I won't be getting my money's worth back.
As I see it, most of the gaming population willing to pay subscriptions are the ones with the free time to spare and mostly pre-college/work pupils.
Also, as already pointed out, paying for the game does not prevent stupid players from accessing the game, but I agree that making a bad game free won't make it better.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28280031</id>
	<title>Re:Last-ditch effort</title>
	<author>nametaken</author>
	<datestamp>1244650320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Three Rings did this with Puzzle Pirates, and maintained a pay service.</p><p>To the best of my knowledge they're still moving along.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Three Rings did this with Puzzle Pirates , and maintained a pay service.To the best of my knowledge they 're still moving along .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Three Rings did this with Puzzle Pirates, and maintained a pay service.To the best of my knowledge they're still moving along.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277547</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277825</id>
	<title>Re:Stop asking for the other kind of free</title>
	<author>Hubbell</author>
	<datestamp>1244639280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Everything but aimbots/radar/wall hacks can be easily stopped via server side sanity checks.  The client is in the hands of the enemy, therefore you nothing but the bare minimum to run the game into it.  That's like MMO 101 from 1996.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Everything but aimbots/radar/wall hacks can be easily stopped via server side sanity checks .
The client is in the hands of the enemy , therefore you nothing but the bare minimum to run the game into it .
That 's like MMO 101 from 1996 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Everything but aimbots/radar/wall hacks can be easily stopped via server side sanity checks.
The client is in the hands of the enemy, therefore you nothing but the bare minimum to run the game into it.
That's like MMO 101 from 1996.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277989</id>
	<title>I'd love to see the IP free up....</title>
	<author>Durrok</author>
	<datestamp>1244640480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>... and to see someone make a niche game that actually caters DnD players VS whatever the heck Turbine tried to do with it. The screwed up on a lot of things. No randomized dungeons. No turn based combat (yes, it has it's issues but DnD is turn based - figure out how to do it right or GTFO). Absolutely terrible grinding with almost no content at launch.

How do you take a niche market like MMOs, pick a setting that drills down your niche market even further, and then try to make it for anyone but these people?</htmltext>
<tokenext>... and to see someone make a niche game that actually caters DnD players VS whatever the heck Turbine tried to do with it .
The screwed up on a lot of things .
No randomized dungeons .
No turn based combat ( yes , it has it 's issues but DnD is turn based - figure out how to do it right or GTFO ) .
Absolutely terrible grinding with almost no content at launch .
How do you take a niche market like MMOs , pick a setting that drills down your niche market even further , and then try to make it for anyone but these people ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... and to see someone make a niche game that actually caters DnD players VS whatever the heck Turbine tried to do with it.
The screwed up on a lot of things.
No randomized dungeons.
No turn based combat (yes, it has it's issues but DnD is turn based - figure out how to do it right or GTFO).
Absolutely terrible grinding with almost no content at launch.
How do you take a niche market like MMOs, pick a setting that drills down your niche market even further, and then try to make it for anyone but these people?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278351</id>
	<title>Re:They Made D&amp;D Online?</title>
	<author>\_Shad0w\_</author>
	<datestamp>1244643000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>O.K., as far as I know, is the older form, dating for 1839; whereas  "okay" dates from the 1890s.  The initialism "O.K." seems to have been replaced by the "OK" form in the 1970s, even though it's still pronounced as an initialism, rather than an acronym.</p><p>Also, "know-nothing", "every" and "bringing".</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>O.K. , as far as I know , is the older form , dating for 1839 ; whereas " okay " dates from the 1890s .
The initialism " O.K .
" seems to have been replaced by the " OK " form in the 1970s , even though it 's still pronounced as an initialism , rather than an acronym.Also , " know-nothing " , " every " and " bringing " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>O.K., as far as I know, is the older form, dating for 1839; whereas  "okay" dates from the 1890s.
The initialism "O.K.
" seems to have been replaced by the "OK" form in the 1970s, even though it's still pronounced as an initialism, rather than an acronym.Also, "know-nothing", "every" and "bringing".</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278183</id>
	<title>Re:Stop asking for the other kind of free</title>
	<author>dyingtolive</author>
	<datestamp>1244642040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yup, Open Source in insecure.  Because people can see the code, you can't validate who is on the other side or secure a connection.  Looks like someone is going to have to break the news to md5 and ssh.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yup , Open Source in insecure .
Because people can see the code , you ca n't validate who is on the other side or secure a connection .
Looks like someone is going to have to break the news to md5 and ssh .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yup, Open Source in insecure.
Because people can see the code, you can't validate who is on the other side or secure a connection.
Looks like someone is going to have to break the news to md5 and ssh.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278115</id>
	<title>They Made D&amp;D Online?</title>
	<author>kenp2002</author>
	<datestamp>1244641560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, it must have really sucked to fly under my radar...</p><p>Anyway, I should contribute something to the discussion.</p><p>The whole point why successful dating services (yeah who would have throught MMOs and Dating Services had something in common) charge is to create a cost-of-entry that separates serious participants from the rest of the population.</p><p>By making a game free-to-play you are inviting disaster as many<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.'ers have pointed out.</p><p>In fact game studios would do far better to charge MORE for certain options.</p><p>I know at least 400 VN board members that pleaded with Mythic for a 21+ and over server for DAOC. We were so damn sick of the 10 year olds playing...</p><p>Same with the hard core role players. They were willing to shell out $20 a month for a hard core, RPG server.</p><p>I'd wager you would also get some people to kick in $5 extra a month for say 40 and older servers also for people that still remember how to spell OKAY.</p><p>Seriously free-to-play means every idiot and their cousin can get on. Remember how pissed the techie crowd was with AOL and COMPUSERV for bring ever no-nothing to the Internet?</p><p>Seriously look what happened to WoW when they started their free trial program. First week alone on Tichndrius there where 200+ people spamming Gold ads in Ironforge forever renaming it LAGFORGE and SPAMFORGE.</p><p>Even after the tweaks to shut up folks on trial accounts you still had to contend with starting an alt and have 100 level 1 bots camping every spawn with some level 40 (at the time) telling you that if you want to kill stuff you had to play him 10 gold. (We had a big problem with Cross Realm extortionists back then...)</p><p>Seriously D&amp;D Online must have sucked pretty bad for flying this low under the radar and making a free-to-play version sounds like a really really bad idea...</p><p>But hey I love being proven wrong. It happens once in a while and I find it refreshing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , it must have really sucked to fly under my radar...Anyway , I should contribute something to the discussion.The whole point why successful dating services ( yeah who would have throught MMOs and Dating Services had something in common ) charge is to create a cost-of-entry that separates serious participants from the rest of the population.By making a game free-to-play you are inviting disaster as many / .
'ers have pointed out.In fact game studios would do far better to charge MORE for certain options.I know at least 400 VN board members that pleaded with Mythic for a 21 + and over server for DAOC .
We were so damn sick of the 10 year olds playing...Same with the hard core role players .
They were willing to shell out $ 20 a month for a hard core , RPG server.I 'd wager you would also get some people to kick in $ 5 extra a month for say 40 and older servers also for people that still remember how to spell OKAY.Seriously free-to-play means every idiot and their cousin can get on .
Remember how pissed the techie crowd was with AOL and COMPUSERV for bring ever no-nothing to the Internet ? Seriously look what happened to WoW when they started their free trial program .
First week alone on Tichndrius there where 200 + people spamming Gold ads in Ironforge forever renaming it LAGFORGE and SPAMFORGE.Even after the tweaks to shut up folks on trial accounts you still had to contend with starting an alt and have 100 level 1 bots camping every spawn with some level 40 ( at the time ) telling you that if you want to kill stuff you had to play him 10 gold .
( We had a big problem with Cross Realm extortionists back then... ) Seriously D&amp;D Online must have sucked pretty bad for flying this low under the radar and making a free-to-play version sounds like a really really bad idea...But hey I love being proven wrong .
It happens once in a while and I find it refreshing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, it must have really sucked to fly under my radar...Anyway, I should contribute something to the discussion.The whole point why successful dating services (yeah who would have throught MMOs and Dating Services had something in common) charge is to create a cost-of-entry that separates serious participants from the rest of the population.By making a game free-to-play you are inviting disaster as many /.
'ers have pointed out.In fact game studios would do far better to charge MORE for certain options.I know at least 400 VN board members that pleaded with Mythic for a 21+ and over server for DAOC.
We were so damn sick of the 10 year olds playing...Same with the hard core role players.
They were willing to shell out $20 a month for a hard core, RPG server.I'd wager you would also get some people to kick in $5 extra a month for say 40 and older servers also for people that still remember how to spell OKAY.Seriously free-to-play means every idiot and their cousin can get on.
Remember how pissed the techie crowd was with AOL and COMPUSERV for bring ever no-nothing to the Internet?Seriously look what happened to WoW when they started their free trial program.
First week alone on Tichndrius there where 200+ people spamming Gold ads in Ironforge forever renaming it LAGFORGE and SPAMFORGE.Even after the tweaks to shut up folks on trial accounts you still had to contend with starting an alt and have 100 level 1 bots camping every spawn with some level 40 (at the time) telling you that if you want to kill stuff you had to play him 10 gold.
(We had a big problem with Cross Realm extortionists back then...)Seriously D&amp;D Online must have sucked pretty bad for flying this low under the radar and making a free-to-play version sounds like a really really bad idea...But hey I love being proven wrong.
It happens once in a while and I find it refreshing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28287811</id>
	<title>Re:I'd love to see the IP free up....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244642280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Shame of this is Turbine had developed an amazing game that followed the DnD concept better.<br>WOTC (Hasbro) walked in, looked at it, handed them a copy of WoW and said "No, make it like this".<br>The early early testings of the game showed a much different concept that could have been amazing.<br>Oh and while your trashing the entire concept, we still want the same release date.<br>Oh and we are gonna stuff out 3.5 and a whole slew of other things that will diverge the tabletop from the online concept even more.</p><p>I'm definitely not a Turbine or Hasbro fanboi, each of them is doing their own amazing job of killing off their games with stupid decisions.<br>The problem is they see what WoW has become and how "popular" it is, ignoring all of the people who tried WoW and hated it, or only log into keep track of old friends.  Hasbro had "dumbed down" DnD to attract the video game mentality.  Seriously, power cards?</p><p>One thing to ponder, if WoW is the be all end all high point of MMOs... wtf are there still people playing Everquest?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Shame of this is Turbine had developed an amazing game that followed the DnD concept better.WOTC ( Hasbro ) walked in , looked at it , handed them a copy of WoW and said " No , make it like this " .The early early testings of the game showed a much different concept that could have been amazing.Oh and while your trashing the entire concept , we still want the same release date.Oh and we are gon na stuff out 3.5 and a whole slew of other things that will diverge the tabletop from the online concept even more.I 'm definitely not a Turbine or Hasbro fanboi , each of them is doing their own amazing job of killing off their games with stupid decisions.The problem is they see what WoW has become and how " popular " it is , ignoring all of the people who tried WoW and hated it , or only log into keep track of old friends .
Hasbro had " dumbed down " DnD to attract the video game mentality .
Seriously , power cards ? One thing to ponder , if WoW is the be all end all high point of MMOs... wtf are there still people playing Everquest ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Shame of this is Turbine had developed an amazing game that followed the DnD concept better.WOTC (Hasbro) walked in, looked at it, handed them a copy of WoW and said "No, make it like this".The early early testings of the game showed a much different concept that could have been amazing.Oh and while your trashing the entire concept, we still want the same release date.Oh and we are gonna stuff out 3.5 and a whole slew of other things that will diverge the tabletop from the online concept even more.I'm definitely not a Turbine or Hasbro fanboi, each of them is doing their own amazing job of killing off their games with stupid decisions.The problem is they see what WoW has become and how "popular" it is, ignoring all of the people who tried WoW and hated it, or only log into keep track of old friends.
Hasbro had "dumbed down" DnD to attract the video game mentality.
Seriously, power cards?One thing to ponder, if WoW is the be all end all high point of MMOs... wtf are there still people playing Everquest?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277989</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28282361</id>
	<title>If you are 23 and worried about 15 bucks then you</title>
	<author>SmallFurryCreature</author>
	<datestamp>1244659680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So, you are 23 and making an issu about 15 dollars, worried that you might not get your moneys worth.
</p><p>Some of us have jobs. 15 bucks is nothing, barely a movie and that lasts what 2 hours?
</p><p>By all means, keep up the argument that a monthly fee is to expensive, but accept the label "cheapo" that comes with it.
</p><p>Personally, I would have preffered is some games had special servers with say a 50 euro monthly fee and 200 euro deposit. The extra money could go to extra support and the deposit is lost if you are banned. Would clean the servers up, get rid of any gold farmers and make small games a lot more viable with a core userbase. Why does every MMO out there have to chase the lowest common denominator.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So , you are 23 and making an issu about 15 dollars , worried that you might not get your moneys worth .
Some of us have jobs .
15 bucks is nothing , barely a movie and that lasts what 2 hours ?
By all means , keep up the argument that a monthly fee is to expensive , but accept the label " cheapo " that comes with it .
Personally , I would have preffered is some games had special servers with say a 50 euro monthly fee and 200 euro deposit .
The extra money could go to extra support and the deposit is lost if you are banned .
Would clean the servers up , get rid of any gold farmers and make small games a lot more viable with a core userbase .
Why does every MMO out there have to chase the lowest common denominator .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, you are 23 and making an issu about 15 dollars, worried that you might not get your moneys worth.
Some of us have jobs.
15 bucks is nothing, barely a movie and that lasts what 2 hours?
By all means, keep up the argument that a monthly fee is to expensive, but accept the label "cheapo" that comes with it.
Personally, I would have preffered is some games had special servers with say a 50 euro monthly fee and 200 euro deposit.
The extra money could go to extra support and the deposit is lost if you are banned.
Would clean the servers up, get rid of any gold farmers and make small games a lot more viable with a core userbase.
Why does every MMO out there have to chase the lowest common denominator.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278991</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28284729</id>
	<title>Re:They Made D&amp;D Online?</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1244626200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>Remember how pissed the techie crowd was with AOL and COMPUSERV for bring ever no-nothing to the Internet?</i> </p><p>I also remember how games like Neverwinter Nights took the online RPG beyond its narrow techie base.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Remember how pissed the techie crowd was with AOL and COMPUSERV for bring ever no-nothing to the Internet ?
I also remember how games like Neverwinter Nights took the online RPG beyond its narrow techie base .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Remember how pissed the techie crowd was with AOL and COMPUSERV for bring ever no-nothing to the Internet?
I also remember how games like Neverwinter Nights took the online RPG beyond its narrow techie base.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28287739</id>
	<title>Re:I'd love to see the IP free up....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244641800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It would also be nice to see a spell slot/memorization system implemented. I was disappointed when I learned DDO would be using the spell point system. That's not real D&amp;D. We're not playing FF here.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It would also be nice to see a spell slot/memorization system implemented .
I was disappointed when I learned DDO would be using the spell point system .
That 's not real D&amp;D .
We 're not playing FF here .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It would also be nice to see a spell slot/memorization system implemented.
I was disappointed when I learned DDO would be using the spell point system.
That's not real D&amp;D.
We're not playing FF here.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277989</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278203</id>
	<title>Signed stack?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244642160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"Not if you do it right, require a signed stack and other DRM-like tricks"</p><p>How does that work? A long time ago, I thought about this idea, but then I couldn't figure out a way around a fundamental problem - how do you verify the signature that the other end of the connection reports is *really* the signature of the executable in use?</p><p>That is, in order to 'verify' the signature of the client, don't you have to trust the client to report its signature? What's to keep a hacked version of the client from reporting itself identically to the 'official' client, spitting back the same signature that you expect, instead of the real signature of the hacked executable? The first, immediate solution that comes to my mind to that problem would seem to be having the client do some sort of encryption every time it connects to the server, of a randomly generated value that the server sends to the client, but the problem with that, is that you then have to embed the encryption key into the client executable (or one of its libraries), which a hacker could then extract?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" Not if you do it right , require a signed stack and other DRM-like tricks " How does that work ?
A long time ago , I thought about this idea , but then I could n't figure out a way around a fundamental problem - how do you verify the signature that the other end of the connection reports is * really * the signature of the executable in use ? That is , in order to 'verify ' the signature of the client , do n't you have to trust the client to report its signature ?
What 's to keep a hacked version of the client from reporting itself identically to the 'official ' client , spitting back the same signature that you expect , instead of the real signature of the hacked executable ?
The first , immediate solution that comes to my mind to that problem would seem to be having the client do some sort of encryption every time it connects to the server , of a randomly generated value that the server sends to the client , but the problem with that , is that you then have to embed the encryption key into the client executable ( or one of its libraries ) , which a hacker could then extract ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"Not if you do it right, require a signed stack and other DRM-like tricks"How does that work?
A long time ago, I thought about this idea, but then I couldn't figure out a way around a fundamental problem - how do you verify the signature that the other end of the connection reports is *really* the signature of the executable in use?That is, in order to 'verify' the signature of the client, don't you have to trust the client to report its signature?
What's to keep a hacked version of the client from reporting itself identically to the 'official' client, spitting back the same signature that you expect, instead of the real signature of the hacked executable?
The first, immediate solution that comes to my mind to that problem would seem to be having the client do some sort of encryption every time it connects to the server, of a randomly generated value that the server sends to the client, but the problem with that, is that you then have to embed the encryption key into the client executable (or one of its libraries), which a hacker could then extract?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277661</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28279883</id>
	<title>Re:They let anyone on these days...</title>
	<author>geekoid</author>
	<datestamp>1244649600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Too bad history proves you wrong.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Too bad history proves you wrong .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Too bad history proves you wrong.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277533</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277563</id>
	<title>Stop asking for the other kind of free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244636460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you open source an online game with a client you're going to get aimbots, programs that triple the onscreen size of all your enemies, speedhacks, and a whole host of other forms of cheating. That's just what happens when you let people modify whatever they want in the client.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you open source an online game with a client you 're going to get aimbots , programs that triple the onscreen size of all your enemies , speedhacks , and a whole host of other forms of cheating .
That 's just what happens when you let people modify whatever they want in the client .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you open source an online game with a client you're going to get aimbots, programs that triple the onscreen size of all your enemies, speedhacks, and a whole host of other forms of cheating.
That's just what happens when you let people modify whatever they want in the client.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28281887</id>
	<title>Re:They Made D&amp;D Online?</title>
	<author>anomnomnomymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244657820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>The whole point why successful dating services (yeah who would have throught MMOs and Dating Services had something in common) charge is to create a cost-of-entry that separates serious participants from the rest of the population.</i> <br> <br>

I would like to point out that one of the most succesful datingsites at the moment is <a href="http://www.plentyoffish.com/" title="plentyoffish.com">Plenty of Fish</a> [plentyoffish.com]... which is free.<br>
I've used it for quite some time now (not necesarily looking for a relationship, but also for some extra friends), and I got to say that the amount of fake profiles, or rude behaviour is few and far between.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The whole point why successful dating services ( yeah who would have throught MMOs and Dating Services had something in common ) charge is to create a cost-of-entry that separates serious participants from the rest of the population .
I would like to point out that one of the most succesful datingsites at the moment is Plenty of Fish [ plentyoffish.com ] ... which is free .
I 've used it for quite some time now ( not necesarily looking for a relationship , but also for some extra friends ) , and I got to say that the amount of fake profiles , or rude behaviour is few and far between .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The whole point why successful dating services (yeah who would have throught MMOs and Dating Services had something in common) charge is to create a cost-of-entry that separates serious participants from the rest of the population.
I would like to point out that one of the most succesful datingsites at the moment is Plenty of Fish [plentyoffish.com]... which is free.
I've used it for quite some time now (not necesarily looking for a relationship, but also for some extra friends), and I got to say that the amount of fake profiles, or rude behaviour is few and far between.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277661</id>
	<title>Re:Stop asking for the other kind of free</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244637600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not if you do it right, require a signed stack and other DRM-like tricks and your at least as safe as a closed source game. Open source means you can't hide your server side deficiencies (trusting the client) behind client side code, but at the end of the day between decompiers are reverse engineers the bulk of your code will be out there anyway. TBH whatever you do your going to get cheats and hackers (although speed hacks are down to poor server-side code), I'm an FPS guy and whether your paying HL(w/ VAC and a) or assaultcube the only thing that protects you from cheats are good server admins and id wager  a large amount that the same can be said of MMOs</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not if you do it right , require a signed stack and other DRM-like tricks and your at least as safe as a closed source game .
Open source means you ca n't hide your server side deficiencies ( trusting the client ) behind client side code , but at the end of the day between decompiers are reverse engineers the bulk of your code will be out there anyway .
TBH whatever you do your going to get cheats and hackers ( although speed hacks are down to poor server-side code ) , I 'm an FPS guy and whether your paying HL ( w/ VAC and a ) or assaultcube the only thing that protects you from cheats are good server admins and id wager a large amount that the same can be said of MMOs</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not if you do it right, require a signed stack and other DRM-like tricks and your at least as safe as a closed source game.
Open source means you can't hide your server side deficiencies (trusting the client) behind client side code, but at the end of the day between decompiers are reverse engineers the bulk of your code will be out there anyway.
TBH whatever you do your going to get cheats and hackers (although speed hacks are down to poor server-side code), I'm an FPS guy and whether your paying HL(w/ VAC and a) or assaultcube the only thing that protects you from cheats are good server admins and id wager  a large amount that the same can be said of MMOs</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278675</id>
	<title>Re:Stop asking for the other kind of free</title>
	<author>Rogerborg</author>
	<datestamp>1244644800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>aimbots, programs that triple the onscreen size of all your enemies, speedhacks, and a whole host of other forms of cheating</p></div></blockquote><p>Y'all ever play a MMORPG?  They're Heroism By Spreadsheet; "aimbot" is a non sequitur.

</p><p>Speedhacks, gosh, since WOW <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=wow+speed+hack" title="google.com">is plagued by them</a> [google.com], I guess it must be because the client is open source, rather than because some spazz dev decided that it was a good idea to have the server trust the client, right?

</p><p>Any popular game is going to have its client, or client protocol, compromised.  There's no defence that doesn't turn into an asymmetrical arms race.  Make it as tight as you like, I still own the operating system, and I'm the Man in the Middle.

</p><p>The solution is a robust and paranoid server design, not to try to secure the client.  Make it a requirement that your server assume and act as though the thing connecting to it is a robot, not a player, and design your game so that said robot can't do anything that a player couldn't do better.  If you can't meet that requirement, and your game is successful, then it <em>will</em> be compromised, and you need to accept that.  Fortunately, with an MMORPG, you can design around this problem, if you put the work in up front.

</p><p>Trusting the security of the client seems quicker, easier, much like the Dark Side, but it will destroy you just as thoroughly in the end.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>aimbots , programs that triple the onscreen size of all your enemies , speedhacks , and a whole host of other forms of cheatingY'all ever play a MMORPG ?
They 're Heroism By Spreadsheet ; " aimbot " is a non sequitur .
Speedhacks , gosh , since WOW is plagued by them [ google.com ] , I guess it must be because the client is open source , rather than because some spazz dev decided that it was a good idea to have the server trust the client , right ?
Any popular game is going to have its client , or client protocol , compromised .
There 's no defence that does n't turn into an asymmetrical arms race .
Make it as tight as you like , I still own the operating system , and I 'm the Man in the Middle .
The solution is a robust and paranoid server design , not to try to secure the client .
Make it a requirement that your server assume and act as though the thing connecting to it is a robot , not a player , and design your game so that said robot ca n't do anything that a player could n't do better .
If you ca n't meet that requirement , and your game is successful , then it will be compromised , and you need to accept that .
Fortunately , with an MMORPG , you can design around this problem , if you put the work in up front .
Trusting the security of the client seems quicker , easier , much like the Dark Side , but it will destroy you just as thoroughly in the end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>aimbots, programs that triple the onscreen size of all your enemies, speedhacks, and a whole host of other forms of cheatingY'all ever play a MMORPG?
They're Heroism By Spreadsheet; "aimbot" is a non sequitur.
Speedhacks, gosh, since WOW is plagued by them [google.com], I guess it must be because the client is open source, rather than because some spazz dev decided that it was a good idea to have the server trust the client, right?
Any popular game is going to have its client, or client protocol, compromised.
There's no defence that doesn't turn into an asymmetrical arms race.
Make it as tight as you like, I still own the operating system, and I'm the Man in the Middle.
The solution is a robust and paranoid server design, not to try to secure the client.
Make it a requirement that your server assume and act as though the thing connecting to it is a robot, not a player, and design your game so that said robot can't do anything that a player couldn't do better.
If you can't meet that requirement, and your game is successful, then it will be compromised, and you need to accept that.
Fortunately, with an MMORPG, you can design around this problem, if you put the work in up front.
Trusting the security of the client seems quicker, easier, much like the Dark Side, but it will destroy you just as thoroughly in the end.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277563</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28280615</id>
	<title>Re:They Made D&amp;D Online?</title>
	<author>jjohnson</author>
	<datestamp>1244653020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your point about dating services and costs of entry is undercut by various scandals at places like match.com, where it was demonstrated that female employees were creating profiles and going on dates as part of their job, in order to balance the male/female ratio and keep men paying the monthly fee.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your point about dating services and costs of entry is undercut by various scandals at places like match.com , where it was demonstrated that female employees were creating profiles and going on dates as part of their job , in order to balance the male/female ratio and keep men paying the monthly fee .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your point about dating services and costs of entry is undercut by various scandals at places like match.com, where it was demonstrated that female employees were creating profiles and going on dates as part of their job, in order to balance the male/female ratio and keep men paying the monthly fee.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28278115</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277651</id>
	<title>Re:They let anyone on these days...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244637540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>There's also no reason for the admins not to ban your ass for griefing.  In WOW, Blizzard could really care less if people are griefing as long as they pay that $15 (or more, for multi accounts) every month.</htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's also no reason for the admins not to ban your ass for griefing .
In WOW , Blizzard could really care less if people are griefing as long as they pay that $ 15 ( or more , for multi accounts ) every month .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's also no reason for the admins not to ban your ass for griefing.
In WOW, Blizzard could really care less if people are griefing as long as they pay that $15 (or more, for multi accounts) every month.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_10_0510213.28277533</parent>
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