<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_09_2014239</id>
	<title>China Dominates In NSA-Backed Coding Contest</title>
	<author>kdawson</author>
	<datestamp>1244539380000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://narrativefallacy.com/" rel="nofollow">The Narrative Fallacy</a> writes <i>"With about 4,200 people participating in a US National Security Agency-supported international competition on everything from writing algorithms to designing components, <a href="http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&amp;taxonomyName=development&amp;articleId=9134122&amp;taxonomyId=11&amp;intsrc=kc\_top">20 of the 70 finalists were from China, 10 from Russia, and 2 from the US</a>. China's showing in the finals was helped by its large number of entrants, 894. India followed at 705, but none of its programmers was a finalist. Russia had 380 participants; the United States, 234; Poland, 214; Egypt, 145; and Ukraine, 128. Participants in the <a href="http://www.topcoder.com/tco09">TopCoder Open was open to anyone</a>, from student to professional; the contest proceeded through rounds of elimination that finished this month in Las Vegas. Rob Hughes, president and COO of TopCoder, says the strong finish by programmers from China, Russia, Eastern Europe and elsewhere is indicative of the importance those countries put on mathematics and science education. 'We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Narrative Fallacy writes " With about 4,200 people participating in a US National Security Agency-supported international competition on everything from writing algorithms to designing components , 20 of the 70 finalists were from China , 10 from Russia , and 2 from the US .
China 's showing in the finals was helped by its large number of entrants , 894 .
India followed at 705 , but none of its programmers was a finalist .
Russia had 380 participants ; the United States , 234 ; Poland , 214 ; Egypt , 145 ; and Ukraine , 128 .
Participants in the TopCoder Open was open to anyone , from student to professional ; the contest proceeded through rounds of elimination that finished this month in Las Vegas .
Rob Hughes , president and COO of TopCoder , says the strong finish by programmers from China , Russia , Eastern Europe and elsewhere is indicative of the importance those countries put on mathematics and science education .
'We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Narrative Fallacy writes "With about 4,200 people participating in a US National Security Agency-supported international competition on everything from writing algorithms to designing components, 20 of the 70 finalists were from China, 10 from Russia, and 2 from the US.
China's showing in the finals was helped by its large number of entrants, 894.
India followed at 705, but none of its programmers was a finalist.
Russia had 380 participants; the United States, 234; Poland, 214; Egypt, 145; and Ukraine, 128.
Participants in the TopCoder Open was open to anyone, from student to professional; the contest proceeded through rounds of elimination that finished this month in Las Vegas.
Rob Hughes, president and COO of TopCoder, says the strong finish by programmers from China, Russia, Eastern Europe and elsewhere is indicative of the importance those countries put on mathematics and science education.
'We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273503</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244553540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>We are over <a href="http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm" title="bls.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm</a> [bls.gov]paying <a href="http://www.aft.org/salary/" title="aft.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.aft.org/salary/</a> [aft.org]our <a href="http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All\_K-12\_Teachers/Salary" title="payscale.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All\_K-12\_Teachers/Salary</a> [payscale.com] teachers!? </p><p>I don't think so... Mods can clean up my html...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We are over http : //www.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm [ bls.gov ] paying http : //www.aft.org/salary/ [ aft.org ] our http : //www.payscale.com/research/US/All \ _K-12 \ _Teachers/Salary [ payscale.com ] teachers ! ?
I do n't think so... Mods can clean up my html.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We are over http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm [bls.gov]paying http://www.aft.org/salary/ [aft.org]our http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All\_K-12\_Teachers/Salary [payscale.com] teachers!?
I don't think so... Mods can clean up my html...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272295</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28276241</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>testadicazzo</author>
	<datestamp>1244664240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I see a lot of criticism of our nations fascination with sports, particularly the American athletics model, which doesn't focus on teaching kids good health and physical fitness lessons that will benefit them in later life.  Rather it seems to be aimed at teaching them primitive tribalism and in-group/out-group mentality.</p><p>That reminds me of another harmful aspect of American culture, which not only fosters tribalism and in-group/out-group thinking, but goes further and teaches kids <strong> not to think</strong>.  I am of course talking about religion, which teaches children that faith (believing your belief despite the evidence) is good, and science and rational thought (questioning your beliefs when presented new evidence) is bad.</p><p>Jesus Christ!  We live in a country where <strong>45\%</strong> of the population denies evolution and believes that the earth is less than 9000 years old!  That's like believing New York is a foot away from San Francisco.  Why do they believe this in the face of so much contrary evidence?  Because the Bible tells them so.  What about all the contradictions in the bible?  Who knows, they are probably there to test our faith, just like fossil record.</p><p>America is a country where it is more likely to have a statue of the ten commandments put in a courhouse, or to have intelligent design taught in a high school, than it is likely to get "in god we trust" removed from our money.  Every single politician has to pay lip service to believing in some kind of a higher power.  We place a high moral value on <strong>faith</strong> </p><p>If you look at the messages floating out there in the American meme pool, you have the fundamentalist christian thought, which tells you you're going to hell unless you accept jesus christ as your personal savior, and then you have the much more mainstream mantra:  It doesn't matter what you believe, but you <strong>must believe in something</strong>.   Doing good science on the other hand requires you to <strong> question your beliefs</strong>.  So let's stop deifying religion and faith, and make this the secular country the founding fathers intended!
</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I see a lot of criticism of our nations fascination with sports , particularly the American athletics model , which does n't focus on teaching kids good health and physical fitness lessons that will benefit them in later life .
Rather it seems to be aimed at teaching them primitive tribalism and in-group/out-group mentality.That reminds me of another harmful aspect of American culture , which not only fosters tribalism and in-group/out-group thinking , but goes further and teaches kids not to think .
I am of course talking about religion , which teaches children that faith ( believing your belief despite the evidence ) is good , and science and rational thought ( questioning your beliefs when presented new evidence ) is bad.Jesus Christ !
We live in a country where 45 \ % of the population denies evolution and believes that the earth is less than 9000 years old !
That 's like believing New York is a foot away from San Francisco .
Why do they believe this in the face of so much contrary evidence ?
Because the Bible tells them so .
What about all the contradictions in the bible ?
Who knows , they are probably there to test our faith , just like fossil record.America is a country where it is more likely to have a statue of the ten commandments put in a courhouse , or to have intelligent design taught in a high school , than it is likely to get " in god we trust " removed from our money .
Every single politician has to pay lip service to believing in some kind of a higher power .
We place a high moral value on faith If you look at the messages floating out there in the American meme pool , you have the fundamentalist christian thought , which tells you you 're going to hell unless you accept jesus christ as your personal savior , and then you have the much more mainstream mantra : It does n't matter what you believe , but you must believe in something .
Doing good science on the other hand requires you to question your beliefs .
So let 's stop deifying religion and faith , and make this the secular country the founding fathers intended !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I see a lot of criticism of our nations fascination with sports, particularly the American athletics model, which doesn't focus on teaching kids good health and physical fitness lessons that will benefit them in later life.
Rather it seems to be aimed at teaching them primitive tribalism and in-group/out-group mentality.That reminds me of another harmful aspect of American culture, which not only fosters tribalism and in-group/out-group thinking, but goes further and teaches kids  not to think.
I am of course talking about religion, which teaches children that faith (believing your belief despite the evidence) is good, and science and rational thought (questioning your beliefs when presented new evidence) is bad.Jesus Christ!
We live in a country where 45\% of the population denies evolution and believes that the earth is less than 9000 years old!
That's like believing New York is a foot away from San Francisco.
Why do they believe this in the face of so much contrary evidence?
Because the Bible tells them so.
What about all the contradictions in the bible?
Who knows, they are probably there to test our faith, just like fossil record.America is a country where it is more likely to have a statue of the ten commandments put in a courhouse, or to have intelligent design taught in a high school, than it is likely to get "in god we trust" removed from our money.
Every single politician has to pay lip service to believing in some kind of a higher power.
We place a high moral value on faith If you look at the messages floating out there in the American meme pool, you have the fundamentalist christian thought, which tells you you're going to hell unless you accept jesus christ as your personal savior, and then you have the much more mainstream mantra:  It doesn't matter what you believe, but you must believe in something.
Doing good science on the other hand requires you to  question your beliefs.
So let's stop deifying religion and faith, and make this the secular country the founding fathers intended!
</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272295</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273269</id>
	<title>This is silly</title>
	<author>cortesoft</author>
	<datestamp>1244551800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So given the percentage of total participants who were from china, the expected number of finalists if they were randomly selected would be about 15 out of 70... and it ends up being 20.  This is hardly statistically significant, and given the countless ways this could be affected, to come to this strong conclusion about the support of math and science is just silly.</p><p>Although maybe making such a dubious conclusion with little statistically significant evidence actually supports the thesis that the US struggles with math... or at least slashdot submitters do</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So given the percentage of total participants who were from china , the expected number of finalists if they were randomly selected would be about 15 out of 70... and it ends up being 20 .
This is hardly statistically significant , and given the countless ways this could be affected , to come to this strong conclusion about the support of math and science is just silly.Although maybe making such a dubious conclusion with little statistically significant evidence actually supports the thesis that the US struggles with math... or at least slashdot submitters do</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So given the percentage of total participants who were from china, the expected number of finalists if they were randomly selected would be about 15 out of 70... and it ends up being 20.
This is hardly statistically significant, and given the countless ways this could be affected, to come to this strong conclusion about the support of math and science is just silly.Although maybe making such a dubious conclusion with little statistically significant evidence actually supports the thesis that the US struggles with math... or at least slashdot submitters do</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272599</id>
	<title>Human nature?</title>
	<author>Absolut187</author>
	<datestamp>1244547360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is it human nature to hate people who are smarter than you, and worship people who are more athletic than you?  Or is that a US-only thing?</p><p>You can be a total cocky a-hole and still be super popular - if you're good at sports.  But if you're good at, say, chess, you're screwed no matter what your personality is like.</p><p>At least that's how it seems to me.  (born and raised in US).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is it human nature to hate people who are smarter than you , and worship people who are more athletic than you ?
Or is that a US-only thing ? You can be a total cocky a-hole and still be super popular - if you 're good at sports .
But if you 're good at , say , chess , you 're screwed no matter what your personality is like.At least that 's how it seems to me .
( born and raised in US ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is it human nature to hate people who are smarter than you, and worship people who are more athletic than you?
Or is that a US-only thing?You can be a total cocky a-hole and still be super popular - if you're good at sports.
But if you're good at, say, chess, you're screwed no matter what your personality is like.At least that's how it seems to me.
(born and raised in US).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272509</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between good coding and development</title>
	<author>n30na</author>
	<datestamp>1244546940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Isn't that what an interface design competition is for? They're different things.<br> <br>

The NSA's job isnt to make pretty looking software, its security.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't that what an interface design competition is for ?
They 're different things .
The NSA 's job isnt to make pretty looking software , its security .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't that what an interface design competition is for?
They're different things.
The NSA's job isnt to make pretty looking software, its security.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272261</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272295</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>Knave75</author>
	<datestamp>1244545320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>"We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there....</p></div><p>The problem is that we are overpaying our teachers.

<br> <br>

(but, seriously, we give math and science teachers a starvation wage and provide them with little respect.  Meanwhile, we pay football coaches 6 figure salaries and revere them as Gods.  Are we <b>really</b> that surprised that we fail at math?)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>" We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there....The problem is that we are overpaying our teachers .
( but , seriously , we give math and science teachers a starvation wage and provide them with little respect .
Meanwhile , we pay football coaches 6 figure salaries and revere them as Gods .
Are we really that surprised that we fail at math ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there....The problem is that we are overpaying our teachers.
(but, seriously, we give math and science teachers a starvation wage and provide them with little respect.
Meanwhile, we pay football coaches 6 figure salaries and revere them as Gods.
Are we really that surprised that we fail at math?
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271837</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271839</id>
	<title>Rice Niggers</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244543220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Rice nigger no speaka the engrish... only do the math.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Rice nigger no speaka the engrish... only do the math .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rice nigger no speaka the engrish... only do the math.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28274035</id>
	<title>Re:Alternative hypothesis</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244557860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I agree, though I think it's not just about pay, at least not directly.</p><p>The vast majority of big-name programming projects are based in the US (even if they are executed elsewhere). This puts non-US residents at a huge disadvantage -- the greater the cultural difference between an applicant and hiring manager, the more outstanding the applicant needs to be to get the job. And winning programming contests is a great way to put some relevant-to-US-culture lines into your resume. Otherwise it's just full of schools and employers that the manager can't pronounce, let alone identify, and you've got no chance of getting hired.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree , though I think it 's not just about pay , at least not directly.The vast majority of big-name programming projects are based in the US ( even if they are executed elsewhere ) .
This puts non-US residents at a huge disadvantage -- the greater the cultural difference between an applicant and hiring manager , the more outstanding the applicant needs to be to get the job .
And winning programming contests is a great way to put some relevant-to-US-culture lines into your resume .
Otherwise it 's just full of schools and employers that the manager ca n't pronounce , let alone identify , and you 've got no chance of getting hired .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree, though I think it's not just about pay, at least not directly.The vast majority of big-name programming projects are based in the US (even if they are executed elsewhere).
This puts non-US residents at a huge disadvantage -- the greater the cultural difference between an applicant and hiring manager, the more outstanding the applicant needs to be to get the job.
And winning programming contests is a great way to put some relevant-to-US-culture lines into your resume.
Otherwise it's just full of schools and employers that the manager can't pronounce, let alone identify, and you've got no chance of getting hired.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272525</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272543</id>
	<title>Re:Gentlemen, it's time</title>
	<author>bertoelcon</author>
	<datestamp>1244547120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Whats interesting is in the high tech based society we have today, it really seems like nerds have the power just not any good use for it, and as such most do not go into a career into what they are really good at because of the negative undertones it has brought since we were kids.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Whats interesting is in the high tech based society we have today , it really seems like nerds have the power just not any good use for it , and as such most do not go into a career into what they are really good at because of the negative undertones it has brought since we were kids .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whats interesting is in the high tech based society we have today, it really seems like nerds have the power just not any good use for it, and as such most do not go into a career into what they are really good at because of the negative undertones it has brought since we were kids.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272037</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272049</id>
	<title>Re:US Educational System</title>
	<author>EkriirkE</author>
	<datestamp>1244544000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Red ink and being told you're wrong are very traumatizing events in a child's life.<br>
Will someone PLEASE just think of the children!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Red ink and being told you 're wrong are very traumatizing events in a child 's life .
Will someone PLEASE just think of the children !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Red ink and being told you're wrong are very traumatizing events in a child's life.
Will someone PLEASE just think of the children!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271927</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272071</id>
	<title>Another thing</title>
	<author>anonymousNR</author>
	<datestamp>1244544120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>for over simplifying idiots who would draw conclusions and make stereotypes out of anything.</htmltext>
<tokenext>for over simplifying idiots who would draw conclusions and make stereotypes out of anything .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>for over simplifying idiots who would draw conclusions and make stereotypes out of anything.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273295</id>
	<title>Re:This happens in Toronto too</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244551920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The award ceremony is 80\% Chinese, 80\% of the non-Chinese are Russian, and 80\% of the remainder are Indian.</p></div><p>I see what you did there...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The award ceremony is 80 \ % Chinese , 80 \ % of the non-Chinese are Russian , and 80 \ % of the remainder are Indian.I see what you did there.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The award ceremony is 80\% Chinese, 80\% of the non-Chinese are Russian, and 80\% of the remainder are Indian.I see what you did there...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272423</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273821</id>
	<title>drunk college student</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244556120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>hahha! i read this, im drunkat college and dont care about anything about doing anything hahahah AMERICA FUCK YEA!~</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>hahha !
i read this , im drunkat college and dont care about anything about doing anything hahahah AMERICA FUCK YEA ! ~</tokentext>
<sentencetext>hahha!
i read this, im drunkat college and dont care about anything about doing anything hahahah AMERICA FUCK YEA!~</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28278127</id>
	<title>Re:the lesson:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244641680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I figure once China launches a manned moon mission it'll probably be the kick in the ass America needs to get back in gear, same as when the USSR launched Sputnik.</p></div><p>why a moon mission? That's been done before.</p><p>Why not something new like high energy physics? You know, learn something new that we didn't know before.</p><p>The US scuttled their plans for the next high energy lab (SSC ) leaving Europe to take the lead with the LHC. I don't see that spurring any particular interest in the US. I suppose that is because high energy physics does not have the brand recognition of a mission to another planet.</p><p>Perhaps something like new ways of producing energy would fit that bill. Where does that fall in the US public consciousness?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I figure once China launches a manned moon mission it 'll probably be the kick in the ass America needs to get back in gear , same as when the USSR launched Sputnik.why a moon mission ?
That 's been done before.Why not something new like high energy physics ?
You know , learn something new that we did n't know before.The US scuttled their plans for the next high energy lab ( SSC ) leaving Europe to take the lead with the LHC .
I do n't see that spurring any particular interest in the US .
I suppose that is because high energy physics does not have the brand recognition of a mission to another planet.Perhaps something like new ways of producing energy would fit that bill .
Where does that fall in the US public consciousness ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I figure once China launches a manned moon mission it'll probably be the kick in the ass America needs to get back in gear, same as when the USSR launched Sputnik.why a moon mission?
That's been done before.Why not something new like high energy physics?
You know, learn something new that we didn't know before.The US scuttled their plans for the next high energy lab (SSC ) leaving Europe to take the lead with the LHC.
I don't see that spurring any particular interest in the US.
I suppose that is because high energy physics does not have the brand recognition of a mission to another planet.Perhaps something like new ways of producing energy would fit that bill.
Where does that fall in the US public consciousness?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271995</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28275055</id>
	<title>Selection Bias</title>
	<author>DarkFyre</author>
	<datestamp>1244567340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The article doesn't mention selection bias, which almost certainly colored these results. It seems likely to me that externalities other than programming skill biased the entrant pool.</p><p>In the US, the best programmers I know have jobs in programming that earn them quite a lot of money. When they go home at night, they may not want to write more code. If they do, they may choose to contribute to open-source projects or their own startup ideas. They're certainly not lining up to enter some silly NSA contest.</p><p>If you offered me $1000 to spend my weekend coding some contest, I'd decline. I make enough money programming the other 5 days of the week that I'd rather have my weekend to myself. Or, if I needed some cash, I could make more with those days doing a one-off consulting project.</p><p>For a programmer in India or China, that money is worth a lot more (relative to cost of living), and they're not getting paid nearly as much for their full-time job. So, I'd argue that programming contests like this (and TopCoder) have a stronger attraction for non-American programmers and, in order for the results of this to be at all interesting, that variable needs to be controlled for.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The article does n't mention selection bias , which almost certainly colored these results .
It seems likely to me that externalities other than programming skill biased the entrant pool.In the US , the best programmers I know have jobs in programming that earn them quite a lot of money .
When they go home at night , they may not want to write more code .
If they do , they may choose to contribute to open-source projects or their own startup ideas .
They 're certainly not lining up to enter some silly NSA contest.If you offered me $ 1000 to spend my weekend coding some contest , I 'd decline .
I make enough money programming the other 5 days of the week that I 'd rather have my weekend to myself .
Or , if I needed some cash , I could make more with those days doing a one-off consulting project.For a programmer in India or China , that money is worth a lot more ( relative to cost of living ) , and they 're not getting paid nearly as much for their full-time job .
So , I 'd argue that programming contests like this ( and TopCoder ) have a stronger attraction for non-American programmers and , in order for the results of this to be at all interesting , that variable needs to be controlled for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The article doesn't mention selection bias, which almost certainly colored these results.
It seems likely to me that externalities other than programming skill biased the entrant pool.In the US, the best programmers I know have jobs in programming that earn them quite a lot of money.
When they go home at night, they may not want to write more code.
If they do, they may choose to contribute to open-source projects or their own startup ideas.
They're certainly not lining up to enter some silly NSA contest.If you offered me $1000 to spend my weekend coding some contest, I'd decline.
I make enough money programming the other 5 days of the week that I'd rather have my weekend to myself.
Or, if I needed some cash, I could make more with those days doing a one-off consulting project.For a programmer in India or China, that money is worth a lot more (relative to cost of living), and they're not getting paid nearly as much for their full-time job.
So, I'd argue that programming contests like this (and TopCoder) have a stronger attraction for non-American programmers and, in order for the results of this to be at all interesting, that variable needs to be controlled for.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271835</id>
	<title>Chinks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244543220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How is a lawn sprinkler racist?
<br> <br>
Because<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... it's always saying "spic-spic-spic-spic *CHINK* nigger-nigger-nigger-nigger"</htmltext>
<tokenext>How is a lawn sprinkler racist ?
Because ... it 's always saying " spic-spic-spic-spic * CHINK * nigger-nigger-nigger-nigger "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How is a lawn sprinkler racist?
Because ... it's always saying "spic-spic-spic-spic *CHINK* nigger-nigger-nigger-nigger"</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272551</id>
	<title>Next contest ...</title>
	<author>ozbird</author>
	<datestamp>1244547180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>... fix Slashdot's stylesheets.  Seriously, WTF?  First it was invisible titles on comments, now it's floating blocks.</htmltext>
<tokenext>... fix Slashdot 's stylesheets .
Seriously , WTF ?
First it was invisible titles on comments , now it 's floating blocks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... fix Slashdot's stylesheets.
Seriously, WTF?
First it was invisible titles on comments, now it's floating blocks.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28274165</id>
	<title>A does not imply B</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244559240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What a bunch of crap.  Of course people in those countries have an interest in things like TopCoder.  It's a way to get noticed; a ticket to a better life, elsewhere.  US coders are, by definition, already here.  One need also of course norm for population and such.  A lot more to this result than the article summary suggests.  I do not, however, doubt the basic claim that education might have a greater emphasis in other parts of the world.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What a bunch of crap .
Of course people in those countries have an interest in things like TopCoder .
It 's a way to get noticed ; a ticket to a better life , elsewhere .
US coders are , by definition , already here .
One need also of course norm for population and such .
A lot more to this result than the article summary suggests .
I do not , however , doubt the basic claim that education might have a greater emphasis in other parts of the world .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What a bunch of crap.
Of course people in those countries have an interest in things like TopCoder.
It's a way to get noticed; a ticket to a better life, elsewhere.
US coders are, by definition, already here.
One need also of course norm for population and such.
A lot more to this result than the article summary suggests.
I do not, however, doubt the basic claim that education might have a greater emphasis in other parts of the world.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273289</id>
	<title>Proportions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244551860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>20 of the 70 finalists were from China, 10 from Russia, and 2 from the US. China's showing in the finals was helped by its large number of entrants, 894. India followed at 705, but none of its programmers was a finalist. Russia had 380 participants; the United States, 234</p></div><p>So let's calculate proportional representation then (since it would make more sense as a comparison point):</p><p>Russia: 380/10 = 1 finalist per 38 participants<br>China: 894/20 = 1 finalist per 45 participants<br>USA: 234/2 = 1 finalist per 117 participants</p><p>So, out of three, Russia seems to top the list. It's a pity they don't give the numbers for finalists from other countries - I would be curious to see how other Eastern European countries fared, and I have a strong suspicion that, if those numbers were included, top 3 would be entirely Eastern Europe.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>20 of the 70 finalists were from China , 10 from Russia , and 2 from the US .
China 's showing in the finals was helped by its large number of entrants , 894 .
India followed at 705 , but none of its programmers was a finalist .
Russia had 380 participants ; the United States , 234So let 's calculate proportional representation then ( since it would make more sense as a comparison point ) : Russia : 380/10 = 1 finalist per 38 participantsChina : 894/20 = 1 finalist per 45 participantsUSA : 234/2 = 1 finalist per 117 participantsSo , out of three , Russia seems to top the list .
It 's a pity they do n't give the numbers for finalists from other countries - I would be curious to see how other Eastern European countries fared , and I have a strong suspicion that , if those numbers were included , top 3 would be entirely Eastern Europe .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>20 of the 70 finalists were from China, 10 from Russia, and 2 from the US.
China's showing in the finals was helped by its large number of entrants, 894.
India followed at 705, but none of its programmers was a finalist.
Russia had 380 participants; the United States, 234So let's calculate proportional representation then (since it would make more sense as a comparison point):Russia: 380/10 = 1 finalist per 38 participantsChina: 894/20 = 1 finalist per 45 participantsUSA: 234/2 = 1 finalist per 117 participantsSo, out of three, Russia seems to top the list.
It's a pity they don't give the numbers for finalists from other countries - I would be curious to see how other Eastern European countries fared, and I have a strong suspicion that, if those numbers were included, top 3 would be entirely Eastern Europe.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271837</id>
	<title>Damn</title>
	<author>Xs1t0ry</author>
	<datestamp>1244543220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>"We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there...."<p>Apparently I was born on the wrong continent.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there.... " Apparently I was born on the wrong continent .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there...."Apparently I was born on the wrong continent.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271991</id>
	<title>athletes?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244543820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i thought it should read:</p><p>'We do the same thing with MacDonalds here that they do with mathematics and science there.'</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i thought it should read : 'We do the same thing with MacDonalds here that they do with mathematics and science there .
'</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i thought it should read:'We do the same thing with MacDonalds here that they do with mathematics and science there.
'</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272707</id>
	<title>Re:US Educational System</title>
	<author>hedwards</author>
	<datestamp>1244548080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Spoken as somebody who has clearly never worked in education.<br> <br>

Classroom related anxieties are a genuine problem and this sort of blame the victim ideology has no place in schools. Trivializing this sort of thing just makes it more difficult on the students and teachers and unnecessarily drains talent which could otherwise be out looking for the cure to cancer or fixing other pressing concerns.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Spoken as somebody who has clearly never worked in education .
Classroom related anxieties are a genuine problem and this sort of blame the victim ideology has no place in schools .
Trivializing this sort of thing just makes it more difficult on the students and teachers and unnecessarily drains talent which could otherwise be out looking for the cure to cancer or fixing other pressing concerns .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Spoken as somebody who has clearly never worked in education.
Classroom related anxieties are a genuine problem and this sort of blame the victim ideology has no place in schools.
Trivializing this sort of thing just makes it more difficult on the students and teachers and unnecessarily drains talent which could otherwise be out looking for the cure to cancer or fixing other pressing concerns.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272049</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272219</id>
	<title>Re:Gentlemen, it's time</title>
	<author>Shooter28</author>
	<datestamp>1244544900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yes, and until that image of nerds/geeks is changed, we will continue to lag behind.
<br>
<br>
It's not "cool" to be smart, and so each generation grows up caring more about popularity than tackling the hard subjects and learning something worthwhile.
<br>
<br>
Far too many people cannot even function in society with the education they receive in high school, and we still give them diplomas.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , and until that image of nerds/geeks is changed , we will continue to lag behind .
It 's not " cool " to be smart , and so each generation grows up caring more about popularity than tackling the hard subjects and learning something worthwhile .
Far too many people can not even function in society with the education they receive in high school , and we still give them diplomas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, and until that image of nerds/geeks is changed, we will continue to lag behind.
It's not "cool" to be smart, and so each generation grows up caring more about popularity than tackling the hard subjects and learning something worthwhile.
Far too many people cannot even function in society with the education they receive in high school, and we still give them diplomas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272037</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28274109</id>
	<title>Re:Another possible reason</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244558760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Congratulations for translating what is a hobby for many of us into a job.  I have fond memories of competing there back in high school and college, but I have been able to make less and less of the competitions as I got a job, among other things.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Congratulations for translating what is a hobby for many of us into a job .
I have fond memories of competing there back in high school and college , but I have been able to make less and less of the competitions as I got a job , among other things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Congratulations for translating what is a hobby for many of us into a job.
I have fond memories of competing there back in high school and college, but I have been able to make less and less of the competitions as I got a job, among other things.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273135</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>amilo100</author>
	<datestamp>1244550720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>The problem is that we are overpaying our teachers. </i> <br> <br>

That is the problem with unions. If there is only one employer (the state) strong unions can lobby parties to give them more money (if I recall correctly, unions donated quite a bit to the Obama campaign). Luckily the USA is not as bad as France.<br> <br>

A good model is to pay top performing teachers and teachers in scarce subject areas (math and science) more than other teachers. Teachers should also be evaluated (a good model is the school inspector). Unfortunately teachers resist all of the good measures in favour of more money.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The problem is that we are overpaying our teachers .
That is the problem with unions .
If there is only one employer ( the state ) strong unions can lobby parties to give them more money ( if I recall correctly , unions donated quite a bit to the Obama campaign ) .
Luckily the USA is not as bad as France .
A good model is to pay top performing teachers and teachers in scarce subject areas ( math and science ) more than other teachers .
Teachers should also be evaluated ( a good model is the school inspector ) .
Unfortunately teachers resist all of the good measures in favour of more money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The problem is that we are overpaying our teachers.
That is the problem with unions.
If there is only one employer (the state) strong unions can lobby parties to give them more money (if I recall correctly, unions donated quite a bit to the Obama campaign).
Luckily the USA is not as bad as France.
A good model is to pay top performing teachers and teachers in scarce subject areas (math and science) more than other teachers.
Teachers should also be evaluated (a good model is the school inspector).
Unfortunately teachers resist all of the good measures in favour of more money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272295</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272037</id>
	<title>Gentlemen, it's time</title>
	<author>Red Flayer</author>
	<datestamp>1244543940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>It's time for nerds to rise up yet again.  Throughout modern history in the US, celebration of the nerd has resulted in unprecedented economic prosperity and global economic domination.<br> <br>From the idolization of Einstein, Feynman, and other physicists, arose the economic superpower that dominated much of the world in the 1950s and 60s.<br> <br>In the 80s, we were captivated by the message of <i>Revenge of the Nerds</i>, and on the shoulders of this movie we came to dominate the new era of Information.<br> <br>Ladies, gentlemen: Now is the time.  Now is the time to rise up from our comfy chairs, to rise up from our futons, to rise up from the depths of our basements!  We must rise up as one united voice of nerd-dom, and speak to the mouthbreathers who have ground us beneath their bootheels since time immemorial.  We must tell them:<br> <br>ENOUGH!  Take your stupid sports and shove them.  Take your stupid pop music TV shows and shove them.  Take your idolization of stupidity and sacrifice it on the altar of curiosity, the altar of edification, and the altar of neckbeards and cheetos!<br> <br>WE MUST DEFEAT THE...<br> <br> <i>What's that mom?  Yeah... OK... I'll be up for dinner as soon as I finish this level.  Did you get some Mountain Dew?</i> <br> <br>Sorry, gotta go AFK.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's time for nerds to rise up yet again .
Throughout modern history in the US , celebration of the nerd has resulted in unprecedented economic prosperity and global economic domination .
From the idolization of Einstein , Feynman , and other physicists , arose the economic superpower that dominated much of the world in the 1950s and 60s .
In the 80s , we were captivated by the message of Revenge of the Nerds , and on the shoulders of this movie we came to dominate the new era of Information .
Ladies , gentlemen : Now is the time .
Now is the time to rise up from our comfy chairs , to rise up from our futons , to rise up from the depths of our basements !
We must rise up as one united voice of nerd-dom , and speak to the mouthbreathers who have ground us beneath their bootheels since time immemorial .
We must tell them : ENOUGH !
Take your stupid sports and shove them .
Take your stupid pop music TV shows and shove them .
Take your idolization of stupidity and sacrifice it on the altar of curiosity , the altar of edification , and the altar of neckbeards and cheetos !
WE MUST DEFEAT THE... What 's that mom ?
Yeah... OK... I 'll be up for dinner as soon as I finish this level .
Did you get some Mountain Dew ?
Sorry , got ta go AFK .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's time for nerds to rise up yet again.
Throughout modern history in the US, celebration of the nerd has resulted in unprecedented economic prosperity and global economic domination.
From the idolization of Einstein, Feynman, and other physicists, arose the economic superpower that dominated much of the world in the 1950s and 60s.
In the 80s, we were captivated by the message of Revenge of the Nerds, and on the shoulders of this movie we came to dominate the new era of Information.
Ladies, gentlemen: Now is the time.
Now is the time to rise up from our comfy chairs, to rise up from our futons, to rise up from the depths of our basements!
We must rise up as one united voice of nerd-dom, and speak to the mouthbreathers who have ground us beneath their bootheels since time immemorial.
We must tell them: ENOUGH!
Take your stupid sports and shove them.
Take your stupid pop music TV shows and shove them.
Take your idolization of stupidity and sacrifice it on the altar of curiosity, the altar of edification, and the altar of neckbeards and cheetos!
WE MUST DEFEAT THE...  What's that mom?
Yeah... OK... I'll be up for dinner as soon as I finish this level.
Did you get some Mountain Dew?
Sorry, gotta go AFK.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28279533</id>
	<title>What a tragic commentary on our time</title>
	<author>RogueWarrior65</author>
	<datestamp>1244648160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The solution is simple.  Start treating geeks like royalty.  Elevate them to rock-star status.  Pay them humongous signing bonuses.  FIRST Robotics is a good place to start.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The solution is simple .
Start treating geeks like royalty .
Elevate them to rock-star status .
Pay them humongous signing bonuses .
FIRST Robotics is a good place to start .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The solution is simple.
Start treating geeks like royalty.
Elevate them to rock-star status.
Pay them humongous signing bonuses.
FIRST Robotics is a good place to start.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28275871</id>
	<title>Re:This happens in Toronto too</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244573880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>At one of the major youth mathematics competitions, Tournament of Towns, the award ceremony is 80\% Chinese, 80\% of the non-Chinese are Russian, and 80\% of the remainder are Indian. It seems like a general pattern around here - look at any math competition top score list and you see Chinese names at the top.</p></div><p>Indians win spelling contests (hard memorization), they do not win math contests (at IMO level).</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>At one of the major youth mathematics competitions , Tournament of Towns , the award ceremony is 80 \ % Chinese , 80 \ % of the non-Chinese are Russian , and 80 \ % of the remainder are Indian .
It seems like a general pattern around here - look at any math competition top score list and you see Chinese names at the top.Indians win spelling contests ( hard memorization ) , they do not win math contests ( at IMO level ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At one of the major youth mathematics competitions, Tournament of Towns, the award ceremony is 80\% Chinese, 80\% of the non-Chinese are Russian, and 80\% of the remainder are Indian.
It seems like a general pattern around here - look at any math competition top score list and you see Chinese names at the top.Indians win spelling contests (hard memorization), they do not win math contests (at IMO level).
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272423</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28275313</id>
	<title>Re:Open to everyone...not really.</title>
	<author>anarche</author>
	<datestamp>1244569260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>While TopCoder may not limit who can participate, I'm betting certain 3 letter US agencies do not let their employees participate.</p></div><p>This is just about the only sensible reply, and/or explanation why the US did so badly in these forums.
<br>Mod this man up please!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>While TopCoder may not limit who can participate , I 'm betting certain 3 letter US agencies do not let their employees participate.This is just about the only sensible reply , and/or explanation why the US did so badly in these forums .
Mod this man up please !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While TopCoder may not limit who can participate, I'm betting certain 3 letter US agencies do not let their employees participate.This is just about the only sensible reply, and/or explanation why the US did so badly in these forums.
Mod this man up please!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28274797</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28277705</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244638020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And there was I thinking that  AFRICA would dominate...<br>You know, what with Africans being "just as intelligent" as all the other races on Earth...</p><p>What do you think your country is going to be like when fifty percent of the population are BLACK?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And there was I thinking that AFRICA would dominate...You know , what with Africans being " just as intelligent " as all the other races on Earth...What do you think your country is going to be like when fifty percent of the population are BLACK ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And there was I thinking that  AFRICA would dominate...You know, what with Africans being "just as intelligent" as all the other races on Earth...What do you think your country is going to be like when fifty percent of the population are BLACK?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271837</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28275453</id>
	<title>Re:Another possible reason</title>
	<author>Reservoir Penguin</author>
	<datestamp>1244570340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wow, a great way to rationalize your failures! Why do Americans no longer produce great cars. They are no longer interested! Nothing to do with inferior schooling and work ethics.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , a great way to rationalize your failures !
Why do Americans no longer produce great cars .
They are no longer interested !
Nothing to do with inferior schooling and work ethics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, a great way to rationalize your failures!
Why do Americans no longer produce great cars.
They are no longer interested!
Nothing to do with inferior schooling and work ethics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272227</id>
	<title>Re:US Educational System</title>
	<author>iluvcapra</author>
	<datestamp>1244544900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Who knew that teaching kids that 1+1 can equal 3 as long as they feel good about themselves would turn out bad for us...</p></div><p>Or that two billion years is only about 5000 God-years, and that "fact" is really a question of whose parents have a bigger voting block on the school board.  And that canceling the band program in order to pay for the football stadium is really quite reasonable if you think about it.</p><p>Sputnik all over again...</p><p>PS. I know it's funny to crack about the whole self-esteem thing, but (1) I didn't pass thru the school system yesterday, but through the 90s I never knew anyone in school get an attaboy for getting a factual point wrong, wether it was English Lit or Calculus; and (2) there's nothing more useless than an engineer who never offers ideas because he always thinks he's wrong.  People gotta have a minimal sense of entitlement otherwise they're sheep.  I would hope the US produces engineers who are smart enough to do anything Chinese engineers can, and have enough independence and sense of their own rights to not just do what their "authorities" tell them unquestioningly, which is an unpleasant side-effect of certain kinds of top-down pedagogy.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who knew that teaching kids that 1 + 1 can equal 3 as long as they feel good about themselves would turn out bad for us...Or that two billion years is only about 5000 God-years , and that " fact " is really a question of whose parents have a bigger voting block on the school board .
And that canceling the band program in order to pay for the football stadium is really quite reasonable if you think about it.Sputnik all over again...PS .
I know it 's funny to crack about the whole self-esteem thing , but ( 1 ) I did n't pass thru the school system yesterday , but through the 90s I never knew anyone in school get an attaboy for getting a factual point wrong , wether it was English Lit or Calculus ; and ( 2 ) there 's nothing more useless than an engineer who never offers ideas because he always thinks he 's wrong .
People got ta have a minimal sense of entitlement otherwise they 're sheep .
I would hope the US produces engineers who are smart enough to do anything Chinese engineers can , and have enough independence and sense of their own rights to not just do what their " authorities " tell them unquestioningly , which is an unpleasant side-effect of certain kinds of top-down pedagogy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who knew that teaching kids that 1+1 can equal 3 as long as they feel good about themselves would turn out bad for us...Or that two billion years is only about 5000 God-years, and that "fact" is really a question of whose parents have a bigger voting block on the school board.
And that canceling the band program in order to pay for the football stadium is really quite reasonable if you think about it.Sputnik all over again...PS.
I know it's funny to crack about the whole self-esteem thing, but (1) I didn't pass thru the school system yesterday, but through the 90s I never knew anyone in school get an attaboy for getting a factual point wrong, wether it was English Lit or Calculus; and (2) there's nothing more useless than an engineer who never offers ideas because he always thinks he's wrong.
People gotta have a minimal sense of entitlement otherwise they're sheep.
I would hope the US produces engineers who are smart enough to do anything Chinese engineers can, and have enough independence and sense of their own rights to not just do what their "authorities" tell them unquestioningly, which is an unpleasant side-effect of certain kinds of top-down pedagogy.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271927</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28274489</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244562060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>yet they don't do it because they know they have to do real stuff or else hunger. How many points of GDP it's worth a gold medal?? huh?? do the 9 gold medals from that guy will revive GM from br?  huh? eat your gold medals, while real talented and professional warriors own your jobs. For Chinese gold medals were the demonstration feat to let the world know who is the new boss. Now shut up and consume Chinese goods, or else go to south America and be a raped king or to Europe and be bitter about your new home land. ha! being one, sucks to be American.. troll? yeah! flamebait? yeah reality dose? fuck yeah!</htmltext>
<tokenext>yet they do n't do it because they know they have to do real stuff or else hunger .
How many points of GDP it 's worth a gold medal ? ?
huh ? ? do the 9 gold medals from that guy will revive GM from br ?
huh ? eat your gold medals , while real talented and professional warriors own your jobs .
For Chinese gold medals were the demonstration feat to let the world know who is the new boss .
Now shut up and consume Chinese goods , or else go to south America and be a raped king or to Europe and be bitter about your new home land .
ha ! being one , sucks to be American.. troll ? yeah !
flamebait ? yeah reality dose ?
fuck yeah !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>yet they don't do it because they know they have to do real stuff or else hunger.
How many points of GDP it's worth a gold medal??
huh?? do the 9 gold medals from that guy will revive GM from br?
huh? eat your gold medals, while real talented and professional warriors own your jobs.
For Chinese gold medals were the demonstration feat to let the world know who is the new boss.
Now shut up and consume Chinese goods, or else go to south America and be a raped king or to Europe and be bitter about your new home land.
ha! being one, sucks to be American.. troll? yeah!
flamebait? yeah reality dose?
fuck yeah!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272827</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>Wingman 5</author>
	<datestamp>1244548800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not that I support coaches getting 6 figure salaries. But the reason they get it is because they made a good team, and that good team generates 7-8 figure income for the school in ticket sales. so if you reword it as a coach gets 1-10\% of ticket sales in salaries it does not sound so bad.</p><p>All you need to do is ask yourself how much income does the art department generate in grant money per year to see why there is a disparity.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not that I support coaches getting 6 figure salaries .
But the reason they get it is because they made a good team , and that good team generates 7-8 figure income for the school in ticket sales .
so if you reword it as a coach gets 1-10 \ % of ticket sales in salaries it does not sound so bad.All you need to do is ask yourself how much income does the art department generate in grant money per year to see why there is a disparity .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not that I support coaches getting 6 figure salaries.
But the reason they get it is because they made a good team, and that good team generates 7-8 figure income for the school in ticket sales.
so if you reword it as a coach gets 1-10\% of ticket sales in salaries it does not sound so bad.All you need to do is ask yourself how much income does the art department generate in grant money per year to see why there is a disparity.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272295</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28291135</id>
	<title>Re:Another possible reason</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244721240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So, US coders do Topcoder, do well, get job, quit Topcoder because we get paid well. Chinese coders do Topcoder, do well, don't get job, don't quit Topcoder. Or they do Topcoder, do well, get job, don't quit Topcoder because they're not yet being paid well enough.</p></div><p>Or, Chinese coders do well, get job, quit Topcoder, but there are more Chinese coders who, on average, do better than our top coders, on average, and pick up the slack.  I'm just saying there's more positions on your Pascal's wager board.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So , US coders do Topcoder , do well , get job , quit Topcoder because we get paid well .
Chinese coders do Topcoder , do well , do n't get job , do n't quit Topcoder .
Or they do Topcoder , do well , get job , do n't quit Topcoder because they 're not yet being paid well enough.Or , Chinese coders do well , get job , quit Topcoder , but there are more Chinese coders who , on average , do better than our top coders , on average , and pick up the slack .
I 'm just saying there 's more positions on your Pascal 's wager board .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So, US coders do Topcoder, do well, get job, quit Topcoder because we get paid well.
Chinese coders do Topcoder, do well, don't get job, don't quit Topcoder.
Or they do Topcoder, do well, get job, don't quit Topcoder because they're not yet being paid well enough.Or, Chinese coders do well, get job, quit Topcoder, but there are more Chinese coders who, on average, do better than our top coders, on average, and pick up the slack.
I'm just saying there's more positions on your Pascal's wager board.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28284171</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between good coding and development</title>
	<author>simaolation</author>
	<datestamp>1244667180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>What you are saying is inherently racist. I read an article on Yahoo a few months back along similar lines: "them asians are too good at math and number crunching, but don't worry, us Americans are still inherently superior because while they produce better grunt engineers, we produce entrepreneurs and artists like Madonna and Michael Jackson! We need to be focused on creativity rather than brute force and logic so we can make the big bucks while China gets stuck with the boring mediocre-paid, long-houred engineering jobs!"

The quote is paraphrased but that was roughly what the article was saying. This argument is racist on so many levels..and pathetic too. Implying that somehow caucasians, and even more specifically, white Americans (since eastern european are also good at math and programming and they're technically white too), are somehow inherently more creatively than the rest of the world is completely nonsense. Your whole "device driver" vs "itune" analogy precisely shows my point; you do realize that Google's success is based on its innovative page ranking algorithm right? The minimalist interface is secondary....else Microsoft could search their whole search-engine dilemma real easily...cut off all javascript and images except for the search engine. Microsoft's problem isn't with interface, it's the fact that its search engines are shit and gives random marketing product links.</div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What you are saying is inherently racist .
I read an article on Yahoo a few months back along similar lines : " them asians are too good at math and number crunching , but do n't worry , us Americans are still inherently superior because while they produce better grunt engineers , we produce entrepreneurs and artists like Madonna and Michael Jackson !
We need to be focused on creativity rather than brute force and logic so we can make the big bucks while China gets stuck with the boring mediocre-paid , long-houred engineering jobs !
" The quote is paraphrased but that was roughly what the article was saying .
This argument is racist on so many levels..and pathetic too .
Implying that somehow caucasians , and even more specifically , white Americans ( since eastern european are also good at math and programming and they 're technically white too ) , are somehow inherently more creatively than the rest of the world is completely nonsense .
Your whole " device driver " vs " itune " analogy precisely shows my point ; you do realize that Google 's success is based on its innovative page ranking algorithm right ?
The minimalist interface is secondary....else Microsoft could search their whole search-engine dilemma real easily...cut off all javascript and images except for the search engine .
Microsoft 's problem is n't with interface , it 's the fact that its search engines are shit and gives random marketing product links .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What you are saying is inherently racist.
I read an article on Yahoo a few months back along similar lines: "them asians are too good at math and number crunching, but don't worry, us Americans are still inherently superior because while they produce better grunt engineers, we produce entrepreneurs and artists like Madonna and Michael Jackson!
We need to be focused on creativity rather than brute force and logic so we can make the big bucks while China gets stuck with the boring mediocre-paid, long-houred engineering jobs!
"

The quote is paraphrased but that was roughly what the article was saying.
This argument is racist on so many levels..and pathetic too.
Implying that somehow caucasians, and even more specifically, white Americans (since eastern european are also good at math and programming and they're technically white too), are somehow inherently more creatively than the rest of the world is completely nonsense.
Your whole "device driver" vs "itune" analogy precisely shows my point; you do realize that Google's success is based on its innovative page ranking algorithm right?
The minimalist interface is secondary....else Microsoft could search their whole search-engine dilemma real easily...cut off all javascript and images except for the search engine.
Microsoft's problem isn't with interface, it's the fact that its search engines are shit and gives random marketing product links.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272261</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273511</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>BitHive</author>
	<datestamp>1244553540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>All you need to do is ask yourself how much income does a department generate in grant money and you've missed the point of education entirely.</htmltext>
<tokenext>All you need to do is ask yourself how much income does a department generate in grant money and you 've missed the point of education entirely .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>All you need to do is ask yourself how much income does a department generate in grant money and you've missed the point of education entirely.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272827</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28275155</id>
	<title>far, far more</title>
	<author>saleenS281</author>
	<datestamp>1244568180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Actually, he's making much, much more than A-Rod.
<br> <br>
<a href="http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2006-03/13/content\_533988.htm" title="chinadaily.com.cn">http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2006-03/13/content\_533988.htm</a> [chinadaily.com.cn]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , he 's making much , much more than A-Rod .
http : //www2.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2006-03/13/content \ _533988.htm [ chinadaily.com.cn ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, he's making much, much more than A-Rod.
http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2006-03/13/content\_533988.htm [chinadaily.com.cn]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272019</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272423</id>
	<title>This happens in Toronto too</title>
	<author>selven</author>
	<datestamp>1244546280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>At one of the major youth mathematics competitions, Tournament of Towns, the award ceremony is 80\% Chinese, 80\% of the non-Chinese are Russian, and 80\% of the remainder are Indian. It seems like a general pattern around here - look at any math competition top score list and you see Chinese names at the top.</htmltext>
<tokenext>At one of the major youth mathematics competitions , Tournament of Towns , the award ceremony is 80 \ % Chinese , 80 \ % of the non-Chinese are Russian , and 80 \ % of the remainder are Indian .
It seems like a general pattern around here - look at any math competition top score list and you see Chinese names at the top .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>At one of the major youth mathematics competitions, Tournament of Towns, the award ceremony is 80\% Chinese, 80\% of the non-Chinese are Russian, and 80\% of the remainder are Indian.
It seems like a general pattern around here - look at any math competition top score list and you see Chinese names at the top.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273283</id>
	<title>Re:the lesson:</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1244551860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>America is getting screwed from both sides... the Republicans actively oppose education that isn't Jesus-centered, while the Democrats and their "Oh, everyone's a winner" crap</p></div></blockquote><p>Combine both: give every student an "A" in Intelligent Design.</p><blockquote><div><p>same as when the USSR launched Sputnik.</p></div></blockquote><p>USSR was able to launch such before we were because they *needed* big rockets because their missiles were so <b>in</b>accurate that they launched bigger nukes to compensate, meaning their rockets were beefy enough to reach space. Same reason they hold the record for the biggest test nuke ever set off. Thus, Sputnik was actually because their tech was *worse* than ours in electronics. The "real story" is not always what it seems.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>America is getting screwed from both sides... the Republicans actively oppose education that is n't Jesus-centered , while the Democrats and their " Oh , everyone 's a winner " crapCombine both : give every student an " A " in Intelligent Design.same as when the USSR launched Sputnik.USSR was able to launch such before we were because they * needed * big rockets because their missiles were so inaccurate that they launched bigger nukes to compensate , meaning their rockets were beefy enough to reach space .
Same reason they hold the record for the biggest test nuke ever set off .
Thus , Sputnik was actually because their tech was * worse * than ours in electronics .
The " real story " is not always what it seems .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>America is getting screwed from both sides... the Republicans actively oppose education that isn't Jesus-centered, while the Democrats and their "Oh, everyone's a winner" crapCombine both: give every student an "A" in Intelligent Design.same as when the USSR launched Sputnik.USSR was able to launch such before we were because they *needed* big rockets because their missiles were so inaccurate that they launched bigger nukes to compensate, meaning their rockets were beefy enough to reach space.
Same reason they hold the record for the biggest test nuke ever set off.
Thus, Sputnik was actually because their tech was *worse* than ours in electronics.
The "real story" is not always what it seems.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271995</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28274027</id>
	<title>Re:Oh really?</title>
	<author>tychver</author>
	<datestamp>1244557800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Probably less than one percent.

A-Rod was on 20 million a year<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:|</htmltext>
<tokenext>Probably less than one percent .
A-Rod was on 20 million a year : |</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Probably less than one percent.
A-Rod was on 20 million a year :|</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272019</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272437</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>phantomfive</author>
	<datestamp>1244546400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Not only do they not treat mathematicians like we treat athletes, they also treat athletes like we treat them!  I was reading through the profiles of the workers in our China branch, and several of them mentioned they like AI.   That's not Artificial Intelligence, folks, that's Allen Iverson!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Not only do they not treat mathematicians like we treat athletes , they also treat athletes like we treat them !
I was reading through the profiles of the workers in our China branch , and several of them mentioned they like AI .
That 's not Artificial Intelligence , folks , that 's Allen Iverson !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not only do they not treat mathematicians like we treat athletes, they also treat athletes like we treat them!
I was reading through the profiles of the workers in our China branch, and several of them mentioned they like AI.
That's not Artificial Intelligence, folks, that's Allen Iverson!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272249</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28275929</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between good coding and development</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244574420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Top coder also have design contests, Chinese are also winning that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Top coder also have design contests , Chinese are also winning that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Top coder also have design contests, Chinese are also winning that.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272261</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272991</id>
	<title>Well this should save us a lot of spying</title>
	<author>gringofrijolero</author>
	<datestamp>1244549820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Neat way to find out what they know. Stay away from those surveys kids. Loose lips sink ships.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Neat way to find out what they know .
Stay away from those surveys kids .
Loose lips sink ships .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Neat way to find out what they know.
Stay away from those surveys kids.
Loose lips sink ships.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28277797</id>
	<title>Re:Another possible reason</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244638980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You were only at the top at the time where other countries doesn't have much participation yet. Just look at the <a href="http://www.topcoder.com/tc?module=AlgoRank" title="topcoder.com" rel="nofollow">current rankings</a> [topcoder.com], I'm sure many of them are not jobless or low-paying. Some of them are even Googlers like you. They are that passionate about it that they don't quit.</p><p>Also, look at the results of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACM\_ICPC#Regionals\_and\_World\_Finals" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">ACM ICPC</a> [wikipedia.org]. For the past decade, where the participation from other countries boomed, the champions were either from Russia, Poland, or China. Note that the skills being compared here are theoretical computer science and math (and not software engineering, usability, etc.), and competitions like these show that they are really ahead in these areas. For general programming that involves software engineering, usability, etc., I think the US is still at the top.</p><p>Sure, you can speculate for reasons, but that doesn't prove anything. Actual competition results, at least, prove something. You don't need to look for reasons/excuses of how the US lags behind these countries, and just accept it. Instead, look at it as a wake-up call that the US are already being overtaken in these areas.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You were only at the top at the time where other countries does n't have much participation yet .
Just look at the current rankings [ topcoder.com ] , I 'm sure many of them are not jobless or low-paying .
Some of them are even Googlers like you .
They are that passionate about it that they do n't quit.Also , look at the results of the ACM ICPC [ wikipedia.org ] .
For the past decade , where the participation from other countries boomed , the champions were either from Russia , Poland , or China .
Note that the skills being compared here are theoretical computer science and math ( and not software engineering , usability , etc .
) , and competitions like these show that they are really ahead in these areas .
For general programming that involves software engineering , usability , etc. , I think the US is still at the top.Sure , you can speculate for reasons , but that does n't prove anything .
Actual competition results , at least , prove something .
You do n't need to look for reasons/excuses of how the US lags behind these countries , and just accept it .
Instead , look at it as a wake-up call that the US are already being overtaken in these areas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You were only at the top at the time where other countries doesn't have much participation yet.
Just look at the current rankings [topcoder.com], I'm sure many of them are not jobless or low-paying.
Some of them are even Googlers like you.
They are that passionate about it that they don't quit.Also, look at the results of the ACM ICPC [wikipedia.org].
For the past decade, where the participation from other countries boomed, the champions were either from Russia, Poland, or China.
Note that the skills being compared here are theoretical computer science and math (and not software engineering, usability, etc.
), and competitions like these show that they are really ahead in these areas.
For general programming that involves software engineering, usability, etc., I think the US is still at the top.Sure, you can speculate for reasons, but that doesn't prove anything.
Actual competition results, at least, prove something.
You don't need to look for reasons/excuses of how the US lags behind these countries, and just accept it.
Instead, look at it as a wake-up call that the US are already being overtaken in these areas.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273789</id>
	<title>State Sponsored Bribery?</title>
	<author>evil\_aar0n</author>
	<datestamp>1244555880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Is this a way of keeping potential crackers busy for a while, to stem the tide of spam / cracks / malware / etc?  If they're working on TopCoder, they're not cranking out less desirable stuff.  At least not as much.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is this a way of keeping potential crackers busy for a while , to stem the tide of spam / cracks / malware / etc ?
If they 're working on TopCoder , they 're not cranking out less desirable stuff .
At least not as much .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Is this a way of keeping potential crackers busy for a while, to stem the tide of spam / cracks / malware / etc?
If they're working on TopCoder, they're not cranking out less desirable stuff.
At least not as much.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272913</id>
	<title>Re:US Educational System</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244549340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You can easily define a set and a homomorphism where 1+1=3</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You can easily define a set and a homomorphism where 1 + 1 = 3</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You can easily define a set and a homomorphism where 1+1=3</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271927</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272249</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244545020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, the Chinese Professional Math League (YDVF) is quite a sight to watch.  Arenas filled with cheering fans watching a bunch of guys doing math and science.  I still don't like the free agency rule implemented last year, but it has provided more parity between teams.  The 'player' salaries are quite a bit higher actually than some of the top athletes in sports like football in other places around the globe.  They truly treat mathematics like we treat athletics.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , the Chinese Professional Math League ( YDVF ) is quite a sight to watch .
Arenas filled with cheering fans watching a bunch of guys doing math and science .
I still do n't like the free agency rule implemented last year , but it has provided more parity between teams .
The 'player ' salaries are quite a bit higher actually than some of the top athletes in sports like football in other places around the globe .
They truly treat mathematics like we treat athletics .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, the Chinese Professional Math League (YDVF) is quite a sight to watch.
Arenas filled with cheering fans watching a bunch of guys doing math and science.
I still don't like the free agency rule implemented last year, but it has provided more parity between teams.
The 'player' salaries are quite a bit higher actually than some of the top athletes in sports like football in other places around the globe.
They truly treat mathematics like we treat athletics.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271837</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272837</id>
	<title>NSA Honeypot Competition</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244548860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I bet the NSA has advanced algorithms that compare a programmer's style of coding with the code used in previous attacks on US electronic infrastructure. Now they have a nice "fingerprint" database of other nations' cyber-warriors.</p><p>Ahhhh, too much Tom Clancy!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I bet the NSA has advanced algorithms that compare a programmer 's style of coding with the code used in previous attacks on US electronic infrastructure .
Now they have a nice " fingerprint " database of other nations ' cyber-warriors.Ahhhh , too much Tom Clancy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I bet the NSA has advanced algorithms that compare a programmer's style of coding with the code used in previous attacks on US electronic infrastructure.
Now they have a nice "fingerprint" database of other nations' cyber-warriors.Ahhhh, too much Tom Clancy!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272525</id>
	<title>Alternative hypothesis</title>
	<author>TheSync</author>
	<datestamp>1244547000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The best American coders were busy working and making money, while Russian and Chinese coders had nothing better to do and were looking for better paying work due to the limits of economic freedom in both countries.</p><p>(Russia's economic freedom score is 50.8, China's is 53.2, US is 80.7).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The best American coders were busy working and making money , while Russian and Chinese coders had nothing better to do and were looking for better paying work due to the limits of economic freedom in both countries .
( Russia 's economic freedom score is 50.8 , China 's is 53.2 , US is 80.7 ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The best American coders were busy working and making money, while Russian and Chinese coders had nothing better to do and were looking for better paying work due to the limits of economic freedom in both countries.
(Russia's economic freedom score is 50.8, China's is 53.2, US is 80.7).</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28275087</id>
	<title>Re:Another possible reason</title>
	<author>JMZero</author>
	<datestamp>1244567640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><em>It could just be that the US coders are no longer interested.</em></p><p>It's certainly likely that there's a lot of US coders who could do well, but who have jobs and aren't interested.  Even more so than when you were competing, there's almost no direct financial motivation to compete in TopCoder algorithm competitions.  And, at some point I understand the competition subject matter would become less interesting (over time you're going to see less and less novelty).  Fair enough.</p><p>However, it's not like the winners are 30 year old Chinese workers who are spending 80 hrs a week practicing so they can make money in programming competitions - it's mostly students from Poland, Russia, and China.  There's no reason North American students shouldn't share these students' love of programming or (as your case and so many other cases demonstrate) desire to distinguish themselves to potential employers.</p><p>So I'll admit I find it odd, and a tiny bit distressing, that so few North American students are doing well in TopCoder (or in the Google Code Jam). That's not to say there's none, but there's not a lot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It could just be that the US coders are no longer interested.It 's certainly likely that there 's a lot of US coders who could do well , but who have jobs and are n't interested .
Even more so than when you were competing , there 's almost no direct financial motivation to compete in TopCoder algorithm competitions .
And , at some point I understand the competition subject matter would become less interesting ( over time you 're going to see less and less novelty ) .
Fair enough.However , it 's not like the winners are 30 year old Chinese workers who are spending 80 hrs a week practicing so they can make money in programming competitions - it 's mostly students from Poland , Russia , and China .
There 's no reason North American students should n't share these students ' love of programming or ( as your case and so many other cases demonstrate ) desire to distinguish themselves to potential employers.So I 'll admit I find it odd , and a tiny bit distressing , that so few North American students are doing well in TopCoder ( or in the Google Code Jam ) .
That 's not to say there 's none , but there 's not a lot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It could just be that the US coders are no longer interested.It's certainly likely that there's a lot of US coders who could do well, but who have jobs and aren't interested.
Even more so than when you were competing, there's almost no direct financial motivation to compete in TopCoder algorithm competitions.
And, at some point I understand the competition subject matter would become less interesting (over time you're going to see less and less novelty).
Fair enough.However, it's not like the winners are 30 year old Chinese workers who are spending 80 hrs a week practicing so they can make money in programming competitions - it's mostly students from Poland, Russia, and China.
There's no reason North American students shouldn't share these students' love of programming or (as your case and so many other cases demonstrate) desire to distinguish themselves to potential employers.So I'll admit I find it odd, and a tiny bit distressing, that so few North American students are doing well in TopCoder (or in the Google Code Jam).
That's not to say there's none, but there's not a lot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28274797</id>
	<title>Open to everyone...not really.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244564760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While TopCoder may not limit who can participate, I'm betting certain 3 letter US agencies do not let their employees participate.</p><p>If you hold a top secret security clearance you need to get any public works (papers, resumes, etc.) pre-approved for release, so I doubt they would be thrilled with someone flaunting some secret algorithm fu.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While TopCoder may not limit who can participate , I 'm betting certain 3 letter US agencies do not let their employees participate.If you hold a top secret security clearance you need to get any public works ( papers , resumes , etc .
) pre-approved for release , so I doubt they would be thrilled with someone flaunting some secret algorithm fu .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While TopCoder may not limit who can participate, I'm betting certain 3 letter US agencies do not let their employees participate.If you hold a top secret security clearance you need to get any public works (papers, resumes, etc.
) pre-approved for release, so I doubt they would be thrilled with someone flaunting some secret algorithm fu.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272239</id>
	<title>Putting it on equal footing?</title>
	<author>nEoN nOoDlE</author>
	<datestamp>1244544960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Saying 'We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there.' is trying to put it all on a somewhat equal footing - "well, they're good at math, but we're as good at sports as they are at math!" Given that the Olympics were just a few months ago, it seems they also do the same thing with athletics as we do with athletics, but they also treat math and science with that highly competitive regard as well. It's all about competition, and we just don't treat math and science as competitively as we treat sports. Just look at what happens when we do treat education competitively - we get spelling bees with 5th and 6th graders who can out-spell 99\% of English speakers of any age.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Saying 'We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there .
' is trying to put it all on a somewhat equal footing - " well , they 're good at math , but we 're as good at sports as they are at math !
" Given that the Olympics were just a few months ago , it seems they also do the same thing with athletics as we do with athletics , but they also treat math and science with that highly competitive regard as well .
It 's all about competition , and we just do n't treat math and science as competitively as we treat sports .
Just look at what happens when we do treat education competitively - we get spelling bees with 5th and 6th graders who can out-spell 99 \ % of English speakers of any age .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Saying 'We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there.
' is trying to put it all on a somewhat equal footing - "well, they're good at math, but we're as good at sports as they are at math!
" Given that the Olympics were just a few months ago, it seems they also do the same thing with athletics as we do with athletics, but they also treat math and science with that highly competitive regard as well.
It's all about competition, and we just don't treat math and science as competitively as we treat sports.
Just look at what happens when we do treat education competitively - we get spelling bees with 5th and 6th graders who can out-spell 99\% of English speakers of any age.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28274577</id>
	<title>Re:US Educational System</title>
	<author>Omestes</author>
	<datestamp>1244562780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Your trolling, right?</p><p>Please tell me your trolling.</p><p>I'm dating a person working on their major in education (its free, and mostly for giggles),who has to interact with actual k-12 teachers. Reading some of the pop-psych drivel that teachers cough up, I sadly wouldn't doubt it you were serious.</p><p>Primary and secondary educations exists to make kids LEARN, not to make them feel good about themselves.  When it comes to schooling, I actually don't care how they feel about it, as long as they leave being able to read at a 12th grade level, and know at least some math.  Actually, I would like it if they knew something about history as well.  If they leave feeling good about themselves, that is great, IF (and only if) they earned it through achievement.</p><p>People who do mediocre work <i>should</i> feel mediocre about it.  Feeling bad about it forces them to do something about it.  Telling them that being a moron is fine, isn't making them want to <b>stop</b> being a moron.  Kids should be under some pressure to... you know... better themselves.</p><p>As for self-esteem...  its a load of new-age crap.  Self respect, like all other forms of respect, must be earned.  Being proud of yourself for nothing but existing is rather stupid, it motivates nothing but egotism and some idiotic sense of entitlement.  Being proud of yourself for doing something, that gives incentive to continue to achieve.</p><p>Also, no, they are not innately special.  No one is.  You are nothing but part of the faceless masses that will be completely forgotten within one generation of your death, this is the definition of not being special.  Just because you like yourself, doesn't change this.  If you feel good about this, there is something wrong.  You only become special when you DO something that the vast majority of anonymous strangers in the world can't do.  You don't get to the point where this is possible by sitting on your ass, staring into a mirror, and chanting a mantra about how awesome you are just because you are you.</p><p>A quick question; should I be proud of myself for sitting at my desk eating cheetos?  Or should I be proud of myself for getting off my ass and doing something interesting?  Children are no different.</p><p>Really, we need more hard-ass eduction.  We should just flunk everyone who can't actually read at their grade level, or perform basic mathematical operations, no questions asked.  Continue to flunk them until they pass, turn twenty-one, or realize they should just get their GED and do something that befits their temperament.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Your trolling , right ? Please tell me your trolling.I 'm dating a person working on their major in education ( its free , and mostly for giggles ) ,who has to interact with actual k-12 teachers .
Reading some of the pop-psych drivel that teachers cough up , I sadly would n't doubt it you were serious.Primary and secondary educations exists to make kids LEARN , not to make them feel good about themselves .
When it comes to schooling , I actually do n't care how they feel about it , as long as they leave being able to read at a 12th grade level , and know at least some math .
Actually , I would like it if they knew something about history as well .
If they leave feeling good about themselves , that is great , IF ( and only if ) they earned it through achievement.People who do mediocre work should feel mediocre about it .
Feeling bad about it forces them to do something about it .
Telling them that being a moron is fine , is n't making them want to stop being a moron .
Kids should be under some pressure to... you know... better themselves.As for self-esteem... its a load of new-age crap .
Self respect , like all other forms of respect , must be earned .
Being proud of yourself for nothing but existing is rather stupid , it motivates nothing but egotism and some idiotic sense of entitlement .
Being proud of yourself for doing something , that gives incentive to continue to achieve.Also , no , they are not innately special .
No one is .
You are nothing but part of the faceless masses that will be completely forgotten within one generation of your death , this is the definition of not being special .
Just because you like yourself , does n't change this .
If you feel good about this , there is something wrong .
You only become special when you DO something that the vast majority of anonymous strangers in the world ca n't do .
You do n't get to the point where this is possible by sitting on your ass , staring into a mirror , and chanting a mantra about how awesome you are just because you are you.A quick question ; should I be proud of myself for sitting at my desk eating cheetos ?
Or should I be proud of myself for getting off my ass and doing something interesting ?
Children are no different.Really , we need more hard-ass eduction .
We should just flunk everyone who ca n't actually read at their grade level , or perform basic mathematical operations , no questions asked .
Continue to flunk them until they pass , turn twenty-one , or realize they should just get their GED and do something that befits their temperament .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Your trolling, right?Please tell me your trolling.I'm dating a person working on their major in education (its free, and mostly for giggles),who has to interact with actual k-12 teachers.
Reading some of the pop-psych drivel that teachers cough up, I sadly wouldn't doubt it you were serious.Primary and secondary educations exists to make kids LEARN, not to make them feel good about themselves.
When it comes to schooling, I actually don't care how they feel about it, as long as they leave being able to read at a 12th grade level, and know at least some math.
Actually, I would like it if they knew something about history as well.
If they leave feeling good about themselves, that is great, IF (and only if) they earned it through achievement.People who do mediocre work should feel mediocre about it.
Feeling bad about it forces them to do something about it.
Telling them that being a moron is fine, isn't making them want to stop being a moron.
Kids should be under some pressure to... you know... better themselves.As for self-esteem...  its a load of new-age crap.
Self respect, like all other forms of respect, must be earned.
Being proud of yourself for nothing but existing is rather stupid, it motivates nothing but egotism and some idiotic sense of entitlement.
Being proud of yourself for doing something, that gives incentive to continue to achieve.Also, no, they are not innately special.
No one is.
You are nothing but part of the faceless masses that will be completely forgotten within one generation of your death, this is the definition of not being special.
Just because you like yourself, doesn't change this.
If you feel good about this, there is something wrong.
You only become special when you DO something that the vast majority of anonymous strangers in the world can't do.
You don't get to the point where this is possible by sitting on your ass, staring into a mirror, and chanting a mantra about how awesome you are just because you are you.A quick question; should I be proud of myself for sitting at my desk eating cheetos?
Or should I be proud of myself for getting off my ass and doing something interesting?
Children are no different.Really, we need more hard-ass eduction.
We should just flunk everyone who can't actually read at their grade level, or perform basic mathematical operations, no questions asked.
Continue to flunk them until they pass, turn twenty-one, or realize they should just get their GED and do something that befits their temperament.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273837</id>
	<title>not surprised</title>
	<author>robinesque</author>
	<datestamp>1244556240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This isn't anomalous. There are many more Chinese, after all.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is n't anomalous .
There are many more Chinese , after all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This isn't anomalous.
There are many more Chinese, after all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272215</id>
	<title>Re:Gentlemen, it's time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244544840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Einstein? Great bagels! But WTF does that have to do with science?</p><p>Why yes, I did attend public school.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Einstein ?
Great bagels !
But WTF does that have to do with science ? Why yes , I did attend public school .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Einstein?
Great bagels!
But WTF does that have to do with science?Why yes, I did attend public school.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272037</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28279115</id>
	<title>Perpetuating tropes</title>
	<author>alakest</author>
	<datestamp>1244646600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"...Democrats and their "Oh, everyone's a winner" crap...</i>

<br> <br>Have you ever seen that? <i>Really?</i>

<br> <br>I doubt it. <br> <br>My guess is that you, and others in this thread, base your comment (or ones like it) on some echo-chamber mythology you've absorbed.  Or willingly slurped up.

<br> <br>I've had teachers, who in retrospect I realize were left of center, that were, with few exceptions, appropriately demanding in constructive ways. I can't ever remember seeing encouragement do damage. On the other hand I've seen (some) teachers, who in retrospect I realize were right of center, devastate kids in front of their peers, and, more importantly, erode that <i>child's</i> self worth. I am acquainted with, and have worked with, people who've never really gotten over either the poisonous assessments, or the twisted kudos, incompetent teachers often use to keep control in the classroom. How do I know? Because I see those people fall for the same bullsh*t at work from their pointy-haired managers. In school I was rarely caught in the crossfire because I'm smarter than the average bear and was fairly well behaved, but it made me feel terrible when I saw it and, if anything, it made me less likely be demonstratively smart where the teacher was liable to pit me against another student. In the workplace it's the sort of thing that tempts me to have a beer right after work.

<br> <br>Healthy education is not about competition, least not until kids are mature enough to manage their emotions well. Last thing you need is an authority figure such as a teacher sanctioning the pecking order, peck-to-death dynamic of the typical school environment.

<br> <br>As for this "Everyone's a winner" thing?

<br> <br>What's the alternative? Announcing losers? Highlighting their failures?

<br> <br> <i>"Hey kids, let's look at the test scores. Oooooooo! Looook at the Losers! And you Cindy - why do you even bother? Guess you're gonna work in retail."</i>

<br> <br>Sound helpful? <i>Really?</i> (Then consider what it'd sound like with a light ethnic, racial, gender, or class-based overtone thrown in.)

<br> <br>Most people when they really think about how life was as a child realize it takes a complete disconnect with reality to not naturally compare oneself to one's peers and notice one's relative ranking, then make an effort to improve or adapt.

<br> <br>My guess is, rather than education, <i>that</i> sort of disconnect is more likely rooted in one's upbringing or the onset of some religiously based dysfunction.

<br> <br>I suggest some of you read <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfie\_Kohn" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">Alfie Kohn's</a> [wikipedia.org] <a href="http://www.alfiekohn.org/books/nc.htm" title="alfiekohn.org" rel="nofollow">"No Contest: The Case Against Competition"</a> [alfiekohn.org].

<br> <br>As for a "Chinese moonshot"? Should we give a rat's ass? How well did that last effort go? Seems it blew a lot of money to prove a geopolitcal point and then, once the point proven, left space efforts twisted and barely sustainable for decades as well as a bunch of engineering types burnt on the employment front. (much like with the cancelled collider) Let's go back to the moon when there's a positive expected value in scientific terms. Jingoism is a poor motive for science. But it's an easy (lazy) way to light a competitive fire under some butts.</htmltext>
<tokenext>" ...Democrats and their " Oh , everyone 's a winner " crap.. . Have you ever seen that ?
Really ? I doubt it .
My guess is that you , and others in this thread , base your comment ( or ones like it ) on some echo-chamber mythology you 've absorbed .
Or willingly slurped up .
I 've had teachers , who in retrospect I realize were left of center , that were , with few exceptions , appropriately demanding in constructive ways .
I ca n't ever remember seeing encouragement do damage .
On the other hand I 've seen ( some ) teachers , who in retrospect I realize were right of center , devastate kids in front of their peers , and , more importantly , erode that child 's self worth .
I am acquainted with , and have worked with , people who 've never really gotten over either the poisonous assessments , or the twisted kudos , incompetent teachers often use to keep control in the classroom .
How do I know ?
Because I see those people fall for the same bullsh * t at work from their pointy-haired managers .
In school I was rarely caught in the crossfire because I 'm smarter than the average bear and was fairly well behaved , but it made me feel terrible when I saw it and , if anything , it made me less likely be demonstratively smart where the teacher was liable to pit me against another student .
In the workplace it 's the sort of thing that tempts me to have a beer right after work .
Healthy education is not about competition , least not until kids are mature enough to manage their emotions well .
Last thing you need is an authority figure such as a teacher sanctioning the pecking order , peck-to-death dynamic of the typical school environment .
As for this " Everyone 's a winner " thing ?
What 's the alternative ?
Announcing losers ?
Highlighting their failures ?
" Hey kids , let 's look at the test scores .
Oooooooo ! Looook at the Losers !
And you Cindy - why do you even bother ?
Guess you 're gon na work in retail .
" Sound helpful ?
Really ? ( Then consider what it 'd sound like with a light ethnic , racial , gender , or class-based overtone thrown in .
) Most people when they really think about how life was as a child realize it takes a complete disconnect with reality to not naturally compare oneself to one 's peers and notice one 's relative ranking , then make an effort to improve or adapt .
My guess is , rather than education , that sort of disconnect is more likely rooted in one 's upbringing or the onset of some religiously based dysfunction .
I suggest some of you read Alfie Kohn 's [ wikipedia.org ] " No Contest : The Case Against Competition " [ alfiekohn.org ] .
As for a " Chinese moonshot " ?
Should we give a rat 's ass ?
How well did that last effort go ?
Seems it blew a lot of money to prove a geopolitcal point and then , once the point proven , left space efforts twisted and barely sustainable for decades as well as a bunch of engineering types burnt on the employment front .
( much like with the cancelled collider ) Let 's go back to the moon when there 's a positive expected value in scientific terms .
Jingoism is a poor motive for science .
But it 's an easy ( lazy ) way to light a competitive fire under some butts .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"...Democrats and their "Oh, everyone's a winner" crap...

 Have you ever seen that?
Really?

 I doubt it.
My guess is that you, and others in this thread, base your comment (or ones like it) on some echo-chamber mythology you've absorbed.
Or willingly slurped up.
I've had teachers, who in retrospect I realize were left of center, that were, with few exceptions, appropriately demanding in constructive ways.
I can't ever remember seeing encouragement do damage.
On the other hand I've seen (some) teachers, who in retrospect I realize were right of center, devastate kids in front of their peers, and, more importantly, erode that child's self worth.
I am acquainted with, and have worked with, people who've never really gotten over either the poisonous assessments, or the twisted kudos, incompetent teachers often use to keep control in the classroom.
How do I know?
Because I see those people fall for the same bullsh*t at work from their pointy-haired managers.
In school I was rarely caught in the crossfire because I'm smarter than the average bear and was fairly well behaved, but it made me feel terrible when I saw it and, if anything, it made me less likely be demonstratively smart where the teacher was liable to pit me against another student.
In the workplace it's the sort of thing that tempts me to have a beer right after work.
Healthy education is not about competition, least not until kids are mature enough to manage their emotions well.
Last thing you need is an authority figure such as a teacher sanctioning the pecking order, peck-to-death dynamic of the typical school environment.
As for this "Everyone's a winner" thing?
What's the alternative?
Announcing losers?
Highlighting their failures?
"Hey kids, let's look at the test scores.
Oooooooo! Looook at the Losers!
And you Cindy - why do you even bother?
Guess you're gonna work in retail.
"

 Sound helpful?
Really? (Then consider what it'd sound like with a light ethnic, racial, gender, or class-based overtone thrown in.
)

 Most people when they really think about how life was as a child realize it takes a complete disconnect with reality to not naturally compare oneself to one's peers and notice one's relative ranking, then make an effort to improve or adapt.
My guess is, rather than education, that sort of disconnect is more likely rooted in one's upbringing or the onset of some religiously based dysfunction.
I suggest some of you read Alfie Kohn's [wikipedia.org] "No Contest: The Case Against Competition" [alfiekohn.org].
As for a "Chinese moonshot"?
Should we give a rat's ass?
How well did that last effort go?
Seems it blew a lot of money to prove a geopolitcal point and then, once the point proven, left space efforts twisted and barely sustainable for decades as well as a bunch of engineering types burnt on the employment front.
(much like with the cancelled collider) Let's go back to the moon when there's a positive expected value in scientific terms.
Jingoism is a poor motive for science.
But it's an easy (lazy) way to light a competitive fire under some butts.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271995</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271927</id>
	<title>US Educational System</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244543580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Who knew that teaching kids that 1+1 can equal 3 as long as they feel good about themselves would turn out bad for us...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Who knew that teaching kids that 1 + 1 can equal 3 as long as they feel good about themselves would turn out bad for us.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Who knew that teaching kids that 1+1 can equal 3 as long as they feel good about themselves would turn out bad for us...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28275343</id>
	<title>Re:BULLSHIT!! MOD THE FUCK DOWN</title>
	<author>Reservoir Penguin</author>
	<datestamp>1244569620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>An American graduate school is a place where Russian professors teach Chinese students.</htmltext>
<tokenext>An American graduate school is a place where Russian professors teach Chinese students .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An American graduate school is a place where Russian professors teach Chinese students.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272947</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273153</id>
	<title>Who knew about it?</title>
	<author>flyingfsck</author>
	<datestamp>1244550900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>My guess is that the competition simply wasn't advertised in North America.  It is no use hearing about it for the first time after the competition closed.</htmltext>
<tokenext>My guess is that the competition simply was n't advertised in North America .
It is no use hearing about it for the first time after the competition closed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My guess is that the competition simply wasn't advertised in North America.
It is no use hearing about it for the first time after the competition closed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28278145</id>
	<title>Re:US Educational System</title>
	<author>hedwards</author>
	<datestamp>1244641860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I've spent years cleaning up after incompetent teaching. So yes, I'm dead serious. The kind of methodology that you're putting forward is probably the greatest threat to the students outside of a toxic home environment.<br> <br>

I have to say that I'm deeply disturbed at how far this blame the victim bull shit has gone. The main source of problems here is that we're expecting kids to learn without any instruction really at all.<br> <br>

If we were providing instruction and it were genuinely a matter of sloth or incompetence that would be different, although even then the sort of tactics you're suggesting would be dangerous and incompetent.<br> <br>

To sort of cap it off, I've lived in the educational community for most of my life, and have worked for a few years cleaning up the sort of mess that your SO is going to be involved in causing.<br> <br>

Ultimately it comes down to results and what you're proposing just doesn't work in that formula.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've spent years cleaning up after incompetent teaching .
So yes , I 'm dead serious .
The kind of methodology that you 're putting forward is probably the greatest threat to the students outside of a toxic home environment .
I have to say that I 'm deeply disturbed at how far this blame the victim bull shit has gone .
The main source of problems here is that we 're expecting kids to learn without any instruction really at all .
If we were providing instruction and it were genuinely a matter of sloth or incompetence that would be different , although even then the sort of tactics you 're suggesting would be dangerous and incompetent .
To sort of cap it off , I 've lived in the educational community for most of my life , and have worked for a few years cleaning up the sort of mess that your SO is going to be involved in causing .
Ultimately it comes down to results and what you 're proposing just does n't work in that formula .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've spent years cleaning up after incompetent teaching.
So yes, I'm dead serious.
The kind of methodology that you're putting forward is probably the greatest threat to the students outside of a toxic home environment.
I have to say that I'm deeply disturbed at how far this blame the victim bull shit has gone.
The main source of problems here is that we're expecting kids to learn without any instruction really at all.
If we were providing instruction and it were genuinely a matter of sloth or incompetence that would be different, although even then the sort of tactics you're suggesting would be dangerous and incompetent.
To sort of cap it off, I've lived in the educational community for most of my life, and have worked for a few years cleaning up the sort of mess that your SO is going to be involved in causing.
Ultimately it comes down to results and what you're proposing just doesn't work in that formula.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28274577</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272261</id>
	<title>Difference between good coding and development</title>
	<author>Twillerror</author>
	<datestamp>1244545080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I often find that the applications coming from China and India to be poor. They are often ugly and hard to use.</p><p>I think we need to differentiate between being able to write an Algorithm and being able to produce something like ITunes.</p><p>Part of this is actually having talented designers and people who can come up with good specifications and use cases and everything else that goes into it.</p><p>These code tests rarely talk about coming up with a good application architecture or good design. Sure we need people writing device drivers, but we also need the higher level tasks done as well. I don't think they are represented well.</p><p>I often try the Google code challenge only to feel bored. I guess I don't really like solving "shortest path" type problems. I'm more about creating a data model, interface, and ultimately a tool with a good user expeirence. Something that solves a day to day task.</p><p>Maybe we should have application challenges where we say "write the easiest to use calculator"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I often find that the applications coming from China and India to be poor .
They are often ugly and hard to use.I think we need to differentiate between being able to write an Algorithm and being able to produce something like ITunes.Part of this is actually having talented designers and people who can come up with good specifications and use cases and everything else that goes into it.These code tests rarely talk about coming up with a good application architecture or good design .
Sure we need people writing device drivers , but we also need the higher level tasks done as well .
I do n't think they are represented well.I often try the Google code challenge only to feel bored .
I guess I do n't really like solving " shortest path " type problems .
I 'm more about creating a data model , interface , and ultimately a tool with a good user expeirence .
Something that solves a day to day task.Maybe we should have application challenges where we say " write the easiest to use calculator " : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I often find that the applications coming from China and India to be poor.
They are often ugly and hard to use.I think we need to differentiate between being able to write an Algorithm and being able to produce something like ITunes.Part of this is actually having talented designers and people who can come up with good specifications and use cases and everything else that goes into it.These code tests rarely talk about coming up with a good application architecture or good design.
Sure we need people writing device drivers, but we also need the higher level tasks done as well.
I don't think they are represented well.I often try the Google code challenge only to feel bored.
I guess I don't really like solving "shortest path" type problems.
I'm more about creating a data model, interface, and ultimately a tool with a good user expeirence.
Something that solves a day to day task.Maybe we should have application challenges where we say "write the easiest to use calculator" :)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28274683</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244563800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not correct.  We pay big-time football coaches 7 figure salaries.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not correct .
We pay big-time football coaches 7 figure salaries .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not correct.
We pay big-time football coaches 7 figure salaries.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272295</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273741</id>
	<title>Re:Alternative hypothesis</title>
	<author>evil\_aar0n</author>
	<datestamp>1244555400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Certainly plausible.  There's also the "give a shit" factor.  As in, "Do I give a shit about this that I'd bother to enter?"  What's the payback for this?  If it isn't immediate, towering fame, I can see a lot of talented might give contests like this a pass.</p><p>It also doesn't reflect on the \_quality\_ of the winning entries.  Yeah, maybe X number of Chinese won, but was their work that good compared to standard practice, or some other objective criteria?  It's like they say: Even if you take first in Special Olympics, you're still a retard.  (Apologies to all actual mentally handicapped folks and their supporters; I had more than one brother who was, in fact, retarded, and they were the coolest guys I knew.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Certainly plausible .
There 's also the " give a shit " factor .
As in , " Do I give a shit about this that I 'd bother to enter ?
" What 's the payback for this ?
If it is n't immediate , towering fame , I can see a lot of talented might give contests like this a pass.It also does n't reflect on the \ _quality \ _ of the winning entries .
Yeah , maybe X number of Chinese won , but was their work that good compared to standard practice , or some other objective criteria ?
It 's like they say : Even if you take first in Special Olympics , you 're still a retard .
( Apologies to all actual mentally handicapped folks and their supporters ; I had more than one brother who was , in fact , retarded , and they were the coolest guys I knew .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Certainly plausible.
There's also the "give a shit" factor.
As in, "Do I give a shit about this that I'd bother to enter?
"  What's the payback for this?
If it isn't immediate, towering fame, I can see a lot of talented might give contests like this a pass.It also doesn't reflect on the \_quality\_ of the winning entries.
Yeah, maybe X number of Chinese won, but was their work that good compared to standard practice, or some other objective criteria?
It's like they say: Even if you take first in Special Olympics, you're still a retard.
(Apologies to all actual mentally handicapped folks and their supporters; I had more than one brother who was, in fact, retarded, and they were the coolest guys I knew.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272525</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28274697</id>
	<title>Anonymous Coward</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244563860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As someone who is studying to become a middle school math teacher, let me tell you something else they do differently in the rest of the world than they do here in the States: they track students. Do you realize US teachers are expected to teach gifted students, non-English speakers, mentally retarded children, ADHD students, severely disabled kids, and educationally unprepared students all in the SAME class? Do you think China or Russia or India does this? So why does the US do this? Because it makes the less-than-able students feel good about themselves (and their parents happy).</p><p>The most ignored student in a US public school classroom is the on-level, on-task student. Most of the school resources (time and money) are spent on the least capable. This may be exactly where the majority wants those resources applied, but no one should be surprised at the outcome--or expect to compete, in any serious way, with countries that have other priorities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who is studying to become a middle school math teacher , let me tell you something else they do differently in the rest of the world than they do here in the States : they track students .
Do you realize US teachers are expected to teach gifted students , non-English speakers , mentally retarded children , ADHD students , severely disabled kids , and educationally unprepared students all in the SAME class ?
Do you think China or Russia or India does this ?
So why does the US do this ?
Because it makes the less-than-able students feel good about themselves ( and their parents happy ) .The most ignored student in a US public school classroom is the on-level , on-task student .
Most of the school resources ( time and money ) are spent on the least capable .
This may be exactly where the majority wants those resources applied , but no one should be surprised at the outcome--or expect to compete , in any serious way , with countries that have other priorities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who is studying to become a middle school math teacher, let me tell you something else they do differently in the rest of the world than they do here in the States: they track students.
Do you realize US teachers are expected to teach gifted students, non-English speakers, mentally retarded children, ADHD students, severely disabled kids, and educationally unprepared students all in the SAME class?
Do you think China or Russia or India does this?
So why does the US do this?
Because it makes the less-than-able students feel good about themselves (and their parents happy).The most ignored student in a US public school classroom is the on-level, on-task student.
Most of the school resources (time and money) are spent on the least capable.
This may be exactly where the majority wants those resources applied, but no one should be surprised at the outcome--or expect to compete, in any serious way, with countries that have other priorities.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272107</id>
	<title>Athletics in America = ...</title>
	<author>dave562</author>
	<datestamp>1244544240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... steroids and "performance enhancing" supplements.  So by that line of logic, mathematics education outside of America = ???</p><p>Lots of meth and piracetium?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... steroids and " performance enhancing " supplements .
So by that line of logic , mathematics education outside of America = ? ?
? Lots of meth and piracetium ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... steroids and "performance enhancing" supplements.
So by that line of logic, mathematics education outside of America = ??
?Lots of meth and piracetium?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271979</id>
	<title>Science Backgrounds</title>
	<author>Niris</author>
	<datestamp>1244543760000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Reminds me of an episode of Sliders where they treated the people who are good at math/science like athletic gods. <br> <br>Anywho, I was just at a university graduation a couple weeks ago, and I swear there were about 150 graduates for Social Services and Psychology, and seven engineers/computer scientists/math majors graduating. Of course we're going to get our asses handed to us when we just aren't pushing those sort of programs here in the States.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Reminds me of an episode of Sliders where they treated the people who are good at math/science like athletic gods .
Anywho , I was just at a university graduation a couple weeks ago , and I swear there were about 150 graduates for Social Services and Psychology , and seven engineers/computer scientists/math majors graduating .
Of course we 're going to get our asses handed to us when we just are n't pushing those sort of programs here in the States .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reminds me of an episode of Sliders where they treated the people who are good at math/science like athletic gods.
Anywho, I was just at a university graduation a couple weeks ago, and I swear there were about 150 graduates for Social Services and Psychology, and seven engineers/computer scientists/math majors graduating.
Of course we're going to get our asses handed to us when we just aren't pushing those sort of programs here in the States.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273641</id>
	<title>Re:Another possible reason</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244554680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Given an equal reward for both competitors, it makes more sense financially for the Chinese to compete.  A US job will pay more per hour than Topcoder prizes.  A Chinese job, paying 1/10th as much, probably won't.  Why wouldn't their top coders keep competing?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Given an equal reward for both competitors , it makes more sense financially for the Chinese to compete .
A US job will pay more per hour than Topcoder prizes .
A Chinese job , paying 1/10th as much , probably wo n't .
Why would n't their top coders keep competing ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Given an equal reward for both competitors, it makes more sense financially for the Chinese to compete.
A US job will pay more per hour than Topcoder prizes.
A Chinese job, paying 1/10th as much, probably won't.
Why wouldn't their top coders keep competing?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273201</id>
	<title>Spam-A-Thon?</title>
	<author>Tablizer</author>
	<datestamp>1244551260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The top countries are also the source of a lot of spam largely because it's cheaper to pay spamming hackers there. Coincidence? The skills listed are right up a spammer's ally.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The top countries are also the source of a lot of spam largely because it 's cheaper to pay spamming hackers there .
Coincidence ? The skills listed are right up a spammer 's ally .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The top countries are also the source of a lot of spam largely because it's cheaper to pay spamming hackers there.
Coincidence? The skills listed are right up a spammer's ally.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272947</id>
	<title>BULLSHIT!! MOD THE FUCK DOWN</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244549520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This typical bullshit is usually uttered by America-bashing pseudo-intellectuals at every opportunity when the United States doesn't dominate in one particular instance.</p><p>All you need to do is take a look at the best universities in the US to know this tripe isn't even close to being true.  Chinese and Indian students basically would kill for a chance to attend a school here, and the ones that do make it, do their best to stay here.</p><p>Now that I've utterly and completely demolished your nonsense, could the moderators do their jobs and mod that crap to oblivion? Thanks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This typical bullshit is usually uttered by America-bashing pseudo-intellectuals at every opportunity when the United States does n't dominate in one particular instance.All you need to do is take a look at the best universities in the US to know this tripe is n't even close to being true .
Chinese and Indian students basically would kill for a chance to attend a school here , and the ones that do make it , do their best to stay here.Now that I 've utterly and completely demolished your nonsense , could the moderators do their jobs and mod that crap to oblivion ?
Thanks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This typical bullshit is usually uttered by America-bashing pseudo-intellectuals at every opportunity when the United States doesn't dominate in one particular instance.All you need to do is take a look at the best universities in the US to know this tripe isn't even close to being true.
Chinese and Indian students basically would kill for a chance to attend a school here, and the ones that do make it, do their best to stay here.Now that I've utterly and completely demolished your nonsense, could the moderators do their jobs and mod that crap to oblivion?
Thanks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271995</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272737</id>
	<title>Another possible reason</title>
	<author>ZorbaTHut</author>
	<datestamp>1244548140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It could just be that the US coders are no longer interested.</p><p>I used to compete in Topcoder. I made it to #2, I was in the top ten for over a year solid. Then I got a job at Google thanks to my Topcoder ranking. I joined a team that had a bunch of other ex-Topcoders in it and, as with them, determined pretty quickly that Topcoder just wasn't worth my time anymore.</p><p>Now, I don't know how many Chinese programmers got jobs through Topcoder, but I do know that the vast majority of the best Topcoder competitors in the US were hired by a surprisingly small set of companies. And, well, as cool as Topcoder is, if you sit down and look at dollars-per-hour . . . it's pretty crummy compared to a real job. Especially since they lowered all the prizes.</p><p>So, US coders do Topcoder, do well, get job, quit Topcoder because we get paid well. Chinese coders do Topcoder, do well, don't get job, don't quit Topcoder. Or they do Topcoder, do well, get job, don't quit Topcoder because they're not yet being paid well enough.</p><p>Doesn't surprise me in the least.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It could just be that the US coders are no longer interested.I used to compete in Topcoder .
I made it to # 2 , I was in the top ten for over a year solid .
Then I got a job at Google thanks to my Topcoder ranking .
I joined a team that had a bunch of other ex-Topcoders in it and , as with them , determined pretty quickly that Topcoder just was n't worth my time anymore.Now , I do n't know how many Chinese programmers got jobs through Topcoder , but I do know that the vast majority of the best Topcoder competitors in the US were hired by a surprisingly small set of companies .
And , well , as cool as Topcoder is , if you sit down and look at dollars-per-hour .
. .
it 's pretty crummy compared to a real job .
Especially since they lowered all the prizes.So , US coders do Topcoder , do well , get job , quit Topcoder because we get paid well .
Chinese coders do Topcoder , do well , do n't get job , do n't quit Topcoder .
Or they do Topcoder , do well , get job , do n't quit Topcoder because they 're not yet being paid well enough.Does n't surprise me in the least .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It could just be that the US coders are no longer interested.I used to compete in Topcoder.
I made it to #2, I was in the top ten for over a year solid.
Then I got a job at Google thanks to my Topcoder ranking.
I joined a team that had a bunch of other ex-Topcoders in it and, as with them, determined pretty quickly that Topcoder just wasn't worth my time anymore.Now, I don't know how many Chinese programmers got jobs through Topcoder, but I do know that the vast majority of the best Topcoder competitors in the US were hired by a surprisingly small set of companies.
And, well, as cool as Topcoder is, if you sit down and look at dollars-per-hour .
. .
it's pretty crummy compared to a real job.
Especially since they lowered all the prizes.So, US coders do Topcoder, do well, get job, quit Topcoder because we get paid well.
Chinese coders do Topcoder, do well, don't get job, don't quit Topcoder.
Or they do Topcoder, do well, get job, don't quit Topcoder because they're not yet being paid well enough.Doesn't surprise me in the least.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28275129</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between good coding and development</title>
	<author>JMZero</author>
	<datestamp>1244567940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><em>Maybe we should have application challenges where we say "write the easiest to use calculator"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</em></p><p>There is.  TopCoder holds contests for application design, development, architecture, specification, and graphic design.  These contests are used to develop real applications (rather than just for contest sake, like the algorithm competitions) so they actually pay reasonably well too.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe we should have application challenges where we say " write the easiest to use calculator " : ) There is .
TopCoder holds contests for application design , development , architecture , specification , and graphic design .
These contests are used to develop real applications ( rather than just for contest sake , like the algorithm competitions ) so they actually pay reasonably well too .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe we should have application challenges where we say "write the easiest to use calculator" :)There is.
TopCoder holds contests for application design, development, architecture, specification, and graphic design.
These contests are used to develop real applications (rather than just for contest sake, like the algorithm competitions) so they actually pay reasonably well too.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272261</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272019</id>
	<title>Oh really?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244543880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there.</p></div></blockquote><p>Oh really?  What fraction of A-rod's salary is the top coder in China being paid?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there.Oh really ?
What fraction of A-rod 's salary is the top coder in China being paid ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We do the same thing with athletics here that they do with mathematics and science there.Oh really?
What fraction of A-rod's salary is the top coder in China being paid?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272177</id>
	<title>how of the people from china are gov backed?</title>
	<author>Joe The Dragon</author>
	<datestamp>1244544600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>how of the people from china are gov backed? and are just doing it to say they beat the nsa?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>how of the people from china are gov backed ?
and are just doing it to say they beat the nsa ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>how of the people from china are gov backed?
and are just doing it to say they beat the nsa?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272877</id>
	<title>Re:Damn</title>
	<author>Locke2005</author>
	<datestamp>1244549100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Wait... you mean that in Russia and China, the mathmeticians and scientists get all the hot chicks, and they constantly tease the jocks for having "little girly minds"??? I am SO there!</htmltext>
<tokenext>Wait... you mean that in Russia and China , the mathmeticians and scientists get all the hot chicks , and they constantly tease the jocks for having " little girly minds " ? ? ?
I am SO there !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wait... you mean that in Russia and China, the mathmeticians and scientists get all the hot chicks, and they constantly tease the jocks for having "little girly minds"???
I am SO there!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271837</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28276477</id>
	<title>Re:Proportions</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244666820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Could it be that...</p><p>USA: 2 finalists - 1 Russian immigrant and 1 Chinese immigrant?</p><p>It wouldn't surprise me if it was.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Could it be that...USA : 2 finalists - 1 Russian immigrant and 1 Chinese immigrant ? It would n't surprise me if it was .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Could it be that...USA: 2 finalists - 1 Russian immigrant and 1 Chinese immigrant?It wouldn't surprise me if it was.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273289</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28275319</id>
	<title>Re:Another possible reason</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244569320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>Russian and Polish topcoders do well, get a job at google and they keep winning tournaments...</htmltext>
<tokenext>Russian and Polish topcoders do well , get a job at google and they keep winning tournaments.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Russian and Polish topcoders do well, get a job at google and they keep winning tournaments...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272737</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272479</id>
	<title>Re:Difference between good coding and development</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244546700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I think we need to differentiate between being able to write an Algorithm and being able to produce something like ITunes.</p></div><p>You really think the code for iTunes is good? I seriously doubt it. Their <i>design</i> is clean and beautiful as for the code we cannot know. And really it doesn't matter how <i>pretty</i> it is. It most work, and work well for what it has to do (security, performance, etc)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think we need to differentiate between being able to write an Algorithm and being able to produce something like ITunes.You really think the code for iTunes is good ?
I seriously doubt it .
Their design is clean and beautiful as for the code we can not know .
And really it does n't matter how pretty it is .
It most work , and work well for what it has to do ( security , performance , etc )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think we need to differentiate between being able to write an Algorithm and being able to produce something like ITunes.You really think the code for iTunes is good?
I seriously doubt it.
Their design is clean and beautiful as for the code we cannot know.
And really it doesn't matter how pretty it is.
It most work, and work well for what it has to do (security, performance, etc)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272261</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271995</id>
	<title>the lesson:</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244543820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Turn your back on learning and embrace anti-intellectualism? Enjoy falling behind.</p><p>Unfortunately America is getting screwed from both sides... the Republicans actively oppose education that isn't Jesus-centered, while the Democrats and their "Oh, everyone's a winner" crap make what education we do have a joke and create a disgusting sense of entitlement. I figure once China launches a manned moon mission it'll probably be the kick in the ass America needs to get back in gear, same as when the USSR launched Sputnik. Right now America's stalled but there's still time to reignite the engines.</p><p>Most nations don't have long once they stagnate, but America's got a hell of a lot of inertia behind it... I hope we don't throw the chance away.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Turn your back on learning and embrace anti-intellectualism ?
Enjoy falling behind.Unfortunately America is getting screwed from both sides... the Republicans actively oppose education that is n't Jesus-centered , while the Democrats and their " Oh , everyone 's a winner " crap make what education we do have a joke and create a disgusting sense of entitlement .
I figure once China launches a manned moon mission it 'll probably be the kick in the ass America needs to get back in gear , same as when the USSR launched Sputnik .
Right now America 's stalled but there 's still time to reignite the engines.Most nations do n't have long once they stagnate , but America 's got a hell of a lot of inertia behind it... I hope we do n't throw the chance away .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Turn your back on learning and embrace anti-intellectualism?
Enjoy falling behind.Unfortunately America is getting screwed from both sides... the Republicans actively oppose education that isn't Jesus-centered, while the Democrats and their "Oh, everyone's a winner" crap make what education we do have a joke and create a disgusting sense of entitlement.
I figure once China launches a manned moon mission it'll probably be the kick in the ass America needs to get back in gear, same as when the USSR launched Sputnik.
Right now America's stalled but there's still time to reignite the engines.Most nations don't have long once they stagnate, but America's got a hell of a lot of inertia behind it... I hope we don't throw the chance away.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28273441</id>
	<title>Is Fast == Good?</title>
	<author>CodeBuster</author>
	<datestamp>1244553120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Does it strike anyone else as ironic that a competition sponsored by the NSA which encourages participants to hack together a solution quickly is presented as a test of 'good coders' when, at least historically, the drive to get something to market quickly has been a factor or at least contributed substantially to many security holes and other software quality issues? There is something to be said, IMHO, for quality software that is developed incrementally and carefully without undue time pressure. Speed is sometimes, frequently perhaps, the enemy of the good in software development.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does it strike anyone else as ironic that a competition sponsored by the NSA which encourages participants to hack together a solution quickly is presented as a test of 'good coders ' when , at least historically , the drive to get something to market quickly has been a factor or at least contributed substantially to many security holes and other software quality issues ?
There is something to be said , IMHO , for quality software that is developed incrementally and carefully without undue time pressure .
Speed is sometimes , frequently perhaps , the enemy of the good in software development .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does it strike anyone else as ironic that a competition sponsored by the NSA which encourages participants to hack together a solution quickly is presented as a test of 'good coders' when, at least historically, the drive to get something to market quickly has been a factor or at least contributed substantially to many security holes and other software quality issues?
There is something to be said, IMHO, for quality software that is developed incrementally and carefully without undue time pressure.
Speed is sometimes, frequently perhaps, the enemy of the good in software development.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272235</id>
	<title>Goddamn Chinks</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244544900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They are nothing more than Giant Douchebags!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They are nothing more than Giant Douchebags !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They are nothing more than Giant Douchebags!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272095</id>
	<title>Question 1</title>
	<author>InsertWittyNameHere</author>
	<datestamp>1244544180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Outline one method to gain access to NSA networks and provide code implementing the method. Bonus points for commented code.</p><p>Begin.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Outline one method to gain access to NSA networks and provide code implementing the method .
Bonus points for commented code.Begin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Outline one method to gain access to NSA networks and provide code implementing the method.
Bonus points for commented code.Begin.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28303385</id>
	<title>NSA recruiting operation</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244732160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>America showed "poorly" because the NSA already hired all the good Americans. Who do you think made and judged this?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>America showed " poorly " because the NSA already hired all the good Americans .
Who do you think made and judged this ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>America showed "poorly" because the NSA already hired all the good Americans.
Who do you think made and judged this?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272017</id>
	<title>Somebody Set Up Us The Bomb!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244543880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Err.. I mean,,, The Code!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Err.. I mean,, , The Code !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Err.. I mean,,, The Code!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272997</id>
	<title>Re:Gentlemen, it's time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244549820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What you said reminded me of this video: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8VTmy5clHk" title="youtube.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8VTmy5clHk</a> [youtube.com]</p><p>See 3:35.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What you said reminded me of this video : http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v = A8VTmy5clHk [ youtube.com ] See 3 : 35 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What you said reminded me of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8VTmy5clHk [youtube.com]See 3:35.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272037</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272651</id>
	<title>Re:US Educational System</title>
	<author>Maxo-Texas</author>
	<datestamp>1244547660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's a trade off.</p><p>a) Happy and ignorant but alive.</p><p>b) Happy and educated if you make the cut, otherwise unhappy but dead.  (a lot of indians and japanese commit suicide each year ).</p><p>I think the days of America getting away with Happy and Ignorant but Alive are coming to an end.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's a trade off.a ) Happy and ignorant but alive.b ) Happy and educated if you make the cut , otherwise unhappy but dead .
( a lot of indians and japanese commit suicide each year ) .I think the days of America getting away with Happy and Ignorant but Alive are coming to an end .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's a trade off.a) Happy and ignorant but alive.b) Happy and educated if you make the cut, otherwise unhappy but dead.
(a lot of indians and japanese commit suicide each year ).I think the days of America getting away with Happy and Ignorant but Alive are coming to an end.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28271927</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_2014239.28272165</id>
	<title>India had no finalists?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244544540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>That's because they had to drop out after getting jobs in the call center where the US has outsourced the unemployment hotline.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>That 's because they had to drop out after getting jobs in the call center where the US has outsourced the unemployment hotline .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>That's because they had to drop out after getting jobs in the call center where the US has outsourced the unemployment hotline.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_32</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_23</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_22</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_7</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_13</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_4</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_38</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_14</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_28</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_21</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_35</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_11</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_1</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_36</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_27</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_30</id>
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_2014239_17</id>
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