<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_09_1340240</id>
	<title>Novell Ponders "Open-Source Apps Store"</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1244556000000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.pcpro.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">Barence</a> writes <i>"Novell plans to bring the wealth of open-source software to everyday users through an '<a href="http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/255313/novell-ponders-opensource-apps-store.html">open-source apps store</a>.' 'I would compare what's happening on netbooks with what's happening to the smartphone,' Holger Dyroff, vice president of business development at Novell told PC Pro. 'There's a core experience, but then the ability to customise that experience. On the user end, all they'll see is an open-source applications store with one-click downloads of new software. Unlike the other stores though, they won't have to pay for any of those applications, which will be very attractive.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Barence writes " Novell plans to bring the wealth of open-source software to everyday users through an 'open-source apps store .
' 'I would compare what 's happening on netbooks with what 's happening to the smartphone, ' Holger Dyroff , vice president of business development at Novell told PC Pro .
'There 's a core experience , but then the ability to customise that experience .
On the user end , all they 'll see is an open-source applications store with one-click downloads of new software .
Unlike the other stores though , they wo n't have to pay for any of those applications , which will be very attractive .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Barence writes "Novell plans to bring the wealth of open-source software to everyday users through an 'open-source apps store.
' 'I would compare what's happening on netbooks with what's happening to the smartphone,' Holger Dyroff, vice president of business development at Novell told PC Pro.
'There's a core experience, but then the ability to customise that experience.
On the user end, all they'll see is an open-source applications store with one-click downloads of new software.
Unlike the other stores though, they won't have to pay for any of those applications, which will be very attractive.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265493</id>
	<title>Was just about to ask that question...</title>
	<author>krischik</author>
	<datestamp>1244561640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>... and you just beat me to it. In fact I am selling open source for smart phones [1] - and it would be great to sell to the Linux market. In fact it is not a shop if you can't charge for the program. Note that - with the GPL - you only really have to give the source to your customers so I could envision a shop where access to forums, source code etc. pp is only available to paying customers.</p><p>Martin</p><p>[1] <a href="http://fx-602p.krischik.com/" title="krischik.com">http://fx-602p.krischik.com/</a> [krischik.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>... and you just beat me to it .
In fact I am selling open source for smart phones [ 1 ] - and it would be great to sell to the Linux market .
In fact it is not a shop if you ca n't charge for the program .
Note that - with the GPL - you only really have to give the source to your customers so I could envision a shop where access to forums , source code etc .
pp is only available to paying customers.Martin [ 1 ] http : //fx-602p.krischik.com/ [ krischik.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>... and you just beat me to it.
In fact I am selling open source for smart phones [1] - and it would be great to sell to the Linux market.
In fact it is not a shop if you can't charge for the program.
Note that - with the GPL - you only really have to give the source to your customers so I could envision a shop where access to forums, source code etc.
pp is only available to paying customers.Martin[1] http://fx-602p.krischik.com/ [krischik.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265187</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265217</id>
	<title>"store"?</title>
	<author>jmcvetta</author>
	<datestamp>1244560500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't think Novell has quite come to terms with the idea of Free Software yet...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't think Novell has quite come to terms with the idea of Free Software yet.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't think Novell has quite come to terms with the idea of Free Software yet...</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28268159</id>
	<title>Re:Replying to self</title>
	<author>buchner.johannes</author>
	<datestamp>1244571720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>With screen movies! And everything flying around!</p><p>Something that removes the line between "installed" and "available" programs. Like you click on a file with a certain type and that program gets downloaded and displays the file.</p><p>Something like amazon where you select your apps graphically (not just a dumb list) and it should make a ka-ching sound when you are done.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>With screen movies !
And everything flying around ! Something that removes the line between " installed " and " available " programs .
Like you click on a file with a certain type and that program gets downloaded and displays the file.Something like amazon where you select your apps graphically ( not just a dumb list ) and it should make a ka-ching sound when you are done .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With screen movies!
And everything flying around!Something that removes the line between "installed" and "available" programs.
Like you click on a file with a certain type and that program gets downloaded and displays the file.Something like amazon where you select your apps graphically (not just a dumb list) and it should make a ka-ching sound when you are done.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265679</id>
	<title>Re:It would be nice if...</title>
	<author>Qubit</author>
	<datestamp>1244562480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They added a feature to donate money to open source projects. Or even allowed projects to sell their own open-source software in the store. Or sell for cost add-ons to the open source software. Yes, open source software could very well be downloaded elsewhere for free, but people might well pay for the convenience of getting it one place.</p></div><p>But who does (or should) the money go to?</p><ul><li>The guy who packaged My-Shiny-FOSS-App for the Novell store?</li><li>The guy who put the new GUI front-end on the program?</li><li>The guy who's been maintaining the library underneath it all?</li><li>The guys who wrote the original version of the library when they were hopped up on RedBull one night in College and then subsequently forgot about it and lost their sf.net password so they abandoned the project?</li><li>Cowboy Neal?</li></ul><p>Sometimes funding FOSS development is relatively easy -- you've got one program that you use all the time, it's written by a single guy (or group of guys), and they've all agreed to have money go to a single organization that has nonprofit status, making it easy to just cut them a check.</p><p>For all the rest of the projects, funding development is not so easy.</p><p>Lots of projects say things like "Yeah... take a look at the commit logs and decide who you want to fund. Most developers have an Amazon wishlist or a hardware wishlist." While I understand their situation, it would be a lot easier for me if I could just send money to some organization or person. Otherwise I agonize over who to send what to. That's the simple truth.</p><p>Speaking of funding FOSS projects, I'm going to put in a shameless plug for my article <a href="http://colonelqubit.wordpress.com/2009/05/26/free-software-starts-in-your-pocket/" title="wordpress.com">Free Software starts in your pocket</a> [wordpress.com]. I'm kind of "beta testing" it right now, and while it doesn't solve the problem of <em>how</em> to give to FOSS projects that I mentioned above, it does solve the problem of <em>remembering</em> to donate money regularly.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They added a feature to donate money to open source projects .
Or even allowed projects to sell their own open-source software in the store .
Or sell for cost add-ons to the open source software .
Yes , open source software could very well be downloaded elsewhere for free , but people might well pay for the convenience of getting it one place.But who does ( or should ) the money go to ? The guy who packaged My-Shiny-FOSS-App for the Novell store ? The guy who put the new GUI front-end on the program ? The guy who 's been maintaining the library underneath it all ? The guys who wrote the original version of the library when they were hopped up on RedBull one night in College and then subsequently forgot about it and lost their sf.net password so they abandoned the project ? Cowboy Neal ? Sometimes funding FOSS development is relatively easy -- you 've got one program that you use all the time , it 's written by a single guy ( or group of guys ) , and they 've all agreed to have money go to a single organization that has nonprofit status , making it easy to just cut them a check.For all the rest of the projects , funding development is not so easy.Lots of projects say things like " Yeah... take a look at the commit logs and decide who you want to fund .
Most developers have an Amazon wishlist or a hardware wishlist .
" While I understand their situation , it would be a lot easier for me if I could just send money to some organization or person .
Otherwise I agonize over who to send what to .
That 's the simple truth.Speaking of funding FOSS projects , I 'm going to put in a shameless plug for my article Free Software starts in your pocket [ wordpress.com ] .
I 'm kind of " beta testing " it right now , and while it does n't solve the problem of how to give to FOSS projects that I mentioned above , it does solve the problem of remembering to donate money regularly .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They added a feature to donate money to open source projects.
Or even allowed projects to sell their own open-source software in the store.
Or sell for cost add-ons to the open source software.
Yes, open source software could very well be downloaded elsewhere for free, but people might well pay for the convenience of getting it one place.But who does (or should) the money go to?The guy who packaged My-Shiny-FOSS-App for the Novell store?The guy who put the new GUI front-end on the program?The guy who's been maintaining the library underneath it all?The guys who wrote the original version of the library when they were hopped up on RedBull one night in College and then subsequently forgot about it and lost their sf.net password so they abandoned the project?Cowboy Neal?Sometimes funding FOSS development is relatively easy -- you've got one program that you use all the time, it's written by a single guy (or group of guys), and they've all agreed to have money go to a single organization that has nonprofit status, making it easy to just cut them a check.For all the rest of the projects, funding development is not so easy.Lots of projects say things like "Yeah... take a look at the commit logs and decide who you want to fund.
Most developers have an Amazon wishlist or a hardware wishlist.
" While I understand their situation, it would be a lot easier for me if I could just send money to some organization or person.
Otherwise I agonize over who to send what to.
That's the simple truth.Speaking of funding FOSS projects, I'm going to put in a shameless plug for my article Free Software starts in your pocket [wordpress.com].
I'm kind of "beta testing" it right now, and while it doesn't solve the problem of how to give to FOSS projects that I mentioned above, it does solve the problem of remembering to donate money regularly.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265557</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>dfdashh</author>
	<datestamp>1244561940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would guess that they would want to put a new <i>web</i> GUI around their repositories, with metadata and shiny pictures to guide the user towards applications they might want. It is a new concept on what we've had for years now, only with a less-clunky interface (no offense to ATrpms and friends - they do a great job!).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would guess that they would want to put a new web GUI around their repositories , with metadata and shiny pictures to guide the user towards applications they might want .
It is a new concept on what we 've had for years now , only with a less-clunky interface ( no offense to ATrpms and friends - they do a great job !
) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would guess that they would want to put a new web GUI around their repositories, with metadata and shiny pictures to guide the user towards applications they might want.
It is a new concept on what we've had for years now, only with a less-clunky interface (no offense to ATrpms and friends - they do a great job!
).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265071</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265483</id>
	<title>1 Click Installer</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244561460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think what they are eventually getting is also implementing openSUSE so called 1 click installer for applications. Although a good idea for newer users I find it to be a PITA. 1 click is like a little repository within itself which then adds repos and missing packages if needed.</p><p>With 1 click downloads and 1 click installers I seriously wonder if this "software store" will work with other distributions other then their own openSUSE/SLED. Also on another note what kind of Software with what license models will be put in the store ? I for one, know I dont want 1 click everything with (for e.g. mono, imho novell really likes to push this on people) some screwy licensed software being eventually installed without being asked and or notified about it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think what they are eventually getting is also implementing openSUSE so called 1 click installer for applications .
Although a good idea for newer users I find it to be a PITA .
1 click is like a little repository within itself which then adds repos and missing packages if needed.With 1 click downloads and 1 click installers I seriously wonder if this " software store " will work with other distributions other then their own openSUSE/SLED .
Also on another note what kind of Software with what license models will be put in the store ?
I for one , know I dont want 1 click everything with ( for e.g .
mono , imho novell really likes to push this on people ) some screwy licensed software being eventually installed without being asked and or notified about it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think what they are eventually getting is also implementing openSUSE so called 1 click installer for applications.
Although a good idea for newer users I find it to be a PITA.
1 click is like a little repository within itself which then adds repos and missing packages if needed.With 1 click downloads and 1 click installers I seriously wonder if this "software store" will work with other distributions other then their own openSUSE/SLED.
Also on another note what kind of Software with what license models will be put in the store ?
I for one, know I dont want 1 click everything with (for e.g.
mono, imho novell really likes to push this on people) some screwy licensed software being eventually installed without being asked and or notified about it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28272503</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>OriginalSolver</author>
	<datestamp>1244546880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I believe an end user won't see much of a difference between an app uploaded by the original developer or one patched by another developer or a sysadmin.  Most end users don't know what source code is, let alone that it might be modified before they receive the app.

Ask a non-IT relative if they know what source code is.  Be prepared to explain it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I believe an end user wo n't see much of a difference between an app uploaded by the original developer or one patched by another developer or a sysadmin .
Most end users do n't know what source code is , let alone that it might be modified before they receive the app .
Ask a non-IT relative if they know what source code is .
Be prepared to explain it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I believe an end user won't see much of a difference between an app uploaded by the original developer or one patched by another developer or a sysadmin.
Most end users don't know what source code is, let alone that it might be modified before they receive the app.
Ask a non-IT relative if they know what source code is.
Be prepared to explain it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265487</id>
	<title>sudo apt-get synaptic.</title>
	<author>BlueKitties</author>
	<datestamp>1244561520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Redundant on three accounts, funny no? Find the third and mod me down for it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;p On a serious note, I'd be willing to donate coding time to open source cell apps.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Redundant on three accounts , funny no ?
Find the third and mod me down for it .
; p On a serious note , I 'd be willing to donate coding time to open source cell apps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Redundant on three accounts, funny no?
Find the third and mod me down for it.
;p On a serious note, I'd be willing to donate coding time to open source cell apps.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265123</id>
	<title>Replying to self</title>
	<author>killmenow</author>
	<datestamp>1244559960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Or an extension to the standard Synaptic-type front end to repositories where you could just click and run an app. What could you call something where you could just click and run any application you might want, I wonder...  Hmmmm...I just can't seem to think of anything to name a click and run type of interface to open source repositories.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Or an extension to the standard Synaptic-type front end to repositories where you could just click and run an app .
What could you call something where you could just click and run any application you might want , I wonder... Hmmmm...I just ca n't seem to think of anything to name a click and run type of interface to open source repositories .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or an extension to the standard Synaptic-type front end to repositories where you could just click and run an app.
What could you call something where you could just click and run any application you might want, I wonder...  Hmmmm...I just can't seem to think of anything to name a click and run type of interface to open source repositories.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28266627</id>
	<title>Windows has open source too</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244566200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'm not readily aware of any Windows apt-get type solutions. I'm assuming Novell will also host Windows open source software (per TFA). Windows users will become aware of the great software open source can provide. Something no linux repository currently does. Sourceforge is close, but no one I work with has ever heard of it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'm not readily aware of any Windows apt-get type solutions .
I 'm assuming Novell will also host Windows open source software ( per TFA ) .
Windows users will become aware of the great software open source can provide .
Something no linux repository currently does .
Sourceforge is close , but no one I work with has ever heard of it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'm not readily aware of any Windows apt-get type solutions.
I'm assuming Novell will also host Windows open source software (per TFA).
Windows users will become aware of the great software open source can provide.
Something no linux repository currently does.
Sourceforge is close, but no one I work with has ever heard of it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265581</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28266157</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>Delkster</author>
	<datestamp>1244564280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Also, building a user-friendly store/repository isn't just a technical task. The distinction between a traditional repository and an app store may seem to be a matter of naming, but it really should be also a matter of presentation, and that requires some thoughtful effort.</p><p>For example, it would help browsing if available applications were divided into helpful categories and perhaps sub-categories. Current repositories do of course have categories, but they aren't very helpful to a non-technical user, or even to a technical one: many categories contain so many packages that it makes no sense to browse through them.</p><p>In an app store targeted at a general audience, the categories need to be meaningfully sized and set based on non-technical use cases, not technical needs. Also, descriptions for the applications need to be thought about. gnome-app-install used e.g. by Ubuntu is nicer for the average person than browsing through the entire repository (no libraries etc. that most people wouldn't want to install directly anyway), but the package descriptions could really use some work.</p><p>Example: Person receives a 7z archive and gets a tip that 7zip can be used to open it. Person finds "7zip" in add/remove applications. And what does the description for that have to say? (from Ubuntu 8.04 LTS)</p><p><div class="quote"><p>7z and 7za file archivers with high compression ratio</p><p>p7zip is the Unix port of 7-Zip, a file archiver that archives with very high compression ratios.</p><p>p7zip-full provides:
</p><ul>
<li>/usr/bin/7za a standalone version of the 7-zip tool that handles 7z archives (implementation of the LZMA compression algorithm) and some other formats.</li><li>/usr/bin/7z not only does it handle 7z but also ZIP, Zip64, CAB, RAR, ARJ, GZIP, BZIP2, TAR, CPIO, RPM, ISO and DEB archives. 7z compression is 30-50\% better than ZIP compression.</li></ul><p>p7zip provides 7zr, a light version of 7za, and p7zip a gzip like wrapper around 7zr.</p></div><p>So, uhm, yeah. That's useful information if you already know that both tools listed above are command line tools and that certain archiving GUIs can also use them if they're installed. Other than that, the person in our examle is left totally in the dark. Is this the application he wants for opening the archive? If it is, how on earth should it be used? (Probably just by double-clicking on the archive, because now the same GUI the person had previously used for zip archives can also open 7z, thanks to the installation of the command-line tool, but that's in no way obvious unless you already knew it.) Perhaps the description in an app store should just say "installing this application will allow you to open and create 7z archives with $standard\_archiver\_gui." In a repository more likely used by more experienced and technically-minded people it would be a useful detail to mention the command-line utilities.</p><p>That's certainly just an anecdote, but there are similar and milder cases spread all over, both in gnome-app-install and particularly in more traditional repositories. Good descriptions are also important for searchability.</p><p>Anything calling itself an app store should focus more on usability to the average person rather than to the geek who knows and cares what the difference between a Qt and GTK application is. That's another difference between a traditional repository and the kind of an app store the Novell guy is talking about. Yes, it's partially marketing, but it's also a matter of real usability for many people.</p><p>Other details such as meaningful sorting for search results come to mind. Also, in an app store you'd probably want to pre-select the applications at least to some degree rather than dumping all open source software the world has produced into the same view. (Huge repositories such as Debian's certainly have their place, and I love having one at my disposal, but most people really aren't going to need a gazillion different applications written for different UI toolkits when there's a perfectly decent one for the one that comes installed with the netbook.</p><p>An app store could certainly be technically quite similar to a traditional repository, but there are several subtle differences that make the difference between whether it's marketable (or usable) as a general-audience app store or not.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Also , building a user-friendly store/repository is n't just a technical task .
The distinction between a traditional repository and an app store may seem to be a matter of naming , but it really should be also a matter of presentation , and that requires some thoughtful effort.For example , it would help browsing if available applications were divided into helpful categories and perhaps sub-categories .
Current repositories do of course have categories , but they are n't very helpful to a non-technical user , or even to a technical one : many categories contain so many packages that it makes no sense to browse through them.In an app store targeted at a general audience , the categories need to be meaningfully sized and set based on non-technical use cases , not technical needs .
Also , descriptions for the applications need to be thought about .
gnome-app-install used e.g .
by Ubuntu is nicer for the average person than browsing through the entire repository ( no libraries etc .
that most people would n't want to install directly anyway ) , but the package descriptions could really use some work.Example : Person receives a 7z archive and gets a tip that 7zip can be used to open it .
Person finds " 7zip " in add/remove applications .
And what does the description for that have to say ?
( from Ubuntu 8.04 LTS ) 7z and 7za file archivers with high compression ratiop7zip is the Unix port of 7-Zip , a file archiver that archives with very high compression ratios.p7zip-full provides : /usr/bin/7za a standalone version of the 7-zip tool that handles 7z archives ( implementation of the LZMA compression algorithm ) and some other formats./usr/bin/7z not only does it handle 7z but also ZIP , Zip64 , CAB , RAR , ARJ , GZIP , BZIP2 , TAR , CPIO , RPM , ISO and DEB archives .
7z compression is 30-50 \ % better than ZIP compression.p7zip provides 7zr , a light version of 7za , and p7zip a gzip like wrapper around 7zr.So , uhm , yeah .
That 's useful information if you already know that both tools listed above are command line tools and that certain archiving GUIs can also use them if they 're installed .
Other than that , the person in our examle is left totally in the dark .
Is this the application he wants for opening the archive ?
If it is , how on earth should it be used ?
( Probably just by double-clicking on the archive , because now the same GUI the person had previously used for zip archives can also open 7z , thanks to the installation of the command-line tool , but that 's in no way obvious unless you already knew it .
) Perhaps the description in an app store should just say " installing this application will allow you to open and create 7z archives with $ standard \ _archiver \ _gui .
" In a repository more likely used by more experienced and technically-minded people it would be a useful detail to mention the command-line utilities.That 's certainly just an anecdote , but there are similar and milder cases spread all over , both in gnome-app-install and particularly in more traditional repositories .
Good descriptions are also important for searchability.Anything calling itself an app store should focus more on usability to the average person rather than to the geek who knows and cares what the difference between a Qt and GTK application is .
That 's another difference between a traditional repository and the kind of an app store the Novell guy is talking about .
Yes , it 's partially marketing , but it 's also a matter of real usability for many people.Other details such as meaningful sorting for search results come to mind .
Also , in an app store you 'd probably want to pre-select the applications at least to some degree rather than dumping all open source software the world has produced into the same view .
( Huge repositories such as Debian 's certainly have their place , and I love having one at my disposal , but most people really are n't going to need a gazillion different applications written for different UI toolkits when there 's a perfectly decent one for the one that comes installed with the netbook.An app store could certainly be technically quite similar to a traditional repository , but there are several subtle differences that make the difference between whether it 's marketable ( or usable ) as a general-audience app store or not .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Also, building a user-friendly store/repository isn't just a technical task.
The distinction between a traditional repository and an app store may seem to be a matter of naming, but it really should be also a matter of presentation, and that requires some thoughtful effort.For example, it would help browsing if available applications were divided into helpful categories and perhaps sub-categories.
Current repositories do of course have categories, but they aren't very helpful to a non-technical user, or even to a technical one: many categories contain so many packages that it makes no sense to browse through them.In an app store targeted at a general audience, the categories need to be meaningfully sized and set based on non-technical use cases, not technical needs.
Also, descriptions for the applications need to be thought about.
gnome-app-install used e.g.
by Ubuntu is nicer for the average person than browsing through the entire repository (no libraries etc.
that most people wouldn't want to install directly anyway), but the package descriptions could really use some work.Example: Person receives a 7z archive and gets a tip that 7zip can be used to open it.
Person finds "7zip" in add/remove applications.
And what does the description for that have to say?
(from Ubuntu 8.04 LTS)7z and 7za file archivers with high compression ratiop7zip is the Unix port of 7-Zip, a file archiver that archives with very high compression ratios.p7zip-full provides:

/usr/bin/7za a standalone version of the 7-zip tool that handles 7z archives (implementation of the LZMA compression algorithm) and some other formats./usr/bin/7z not only does it handle 7z but also ZIP, Zip64, CAB, RAR, ARJ, GZIP, BZIP2, TAR, CPIO, RPM, ISO and DEB archives.
7z compression is 30-50\% better than ZIP compression.p7zip provides 7zr, a light version of 7za, and p7zip a gzip like wrapper around 7zr.So, uhm, yeah.
That's useful information if you already know that both tools listed above are command line tools and that certain archiving GUIs can also use them if they're installed.
Other than that, the person in our examle is left totally in the dark.
Is this the application he wants for opening the archive?
If it is, how on earth should it be used?
(Probably just by double-clicking on the archive, because now the same GUI the person had previously used for zip archives can also open 7z, thanks to the installation of the command-line tool, but that's in no way obvious unless you already knew it.
) Perhaps the description in an app store should just say "installing this application will allow you to open and create 7z archives with $standard\_archiver\_gui.
" In a repository more likely used by more experienced and technically-minded people it would be a useful detail to mention the command-line utilities.That's certainly just an anecdote, but there are similar and milder cases spread all over, both in gnome-app-install and particularly in more traditional repositories.
Good descriptions are also important for searchability.Anything calling itself an app store should focus more on usability to the average person rather than to the geek who knows and cares what the difference between a Qt and GTK application is.
That's another difference between a traditional repository and the kind of an app store the Novell guy is talking about.
Yes, it's partially marketing, but it's also a matter of real usability for many people.Other details such as meaningful sorting for search results come to mind.
Also, in an app store you'd probably want to pre-select the applications at least to some degree rather than dumping all open source software the world has produced into the same view.
(Huge repositories such as Debian's certainly have their place, and I love having one at my disposal, but most people really aren't going to need a gazillion different applications written for different UI toolkits when there's a perfectly decent one for the one that comes installed with the netbook.An app store could certainly be technically quite similar to a traditional repository, but there are several subtle differences that make the difference between whether it's marketable (or usable) as a general-audience app store or not.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265071</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265159</id>
	<title>Novell Ponders the Nullification of Rob Malda</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244560140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Rob Malda is a 26-year old white male with a stocky build and a beard. His head is shaved. He responded to my ad to be interviewed for this article wearing only leather pants, leather boots and a leather vest. I could see that both of his nipples were pierced with large-gauge silver rings.</p><p>Questioner: I hope you won't be offended if I ask you to prove to me that you're a nullo. Just so that our readers will know that this isn't a fake.</p><p>Rob: Sure, no problem. (stands and unbuckles pants and drops them to his ankles, revealing a smooth, shaven crotch with only a thin scar to show where his genitals once were).</p><p>Q: Thank you. That's a remarkable sight.</p><p>(laughs and pulls pants back up). Most people think so.</p><p>Q: What made you decide to become a nullo?</p><p>(pauses). Well, it really wasn't entirely my decision.</p><p>Q: Excuse me?</p><p>The idea wasn't mine. It was my lover's idea.</p><p>Q: Please explain what you mean.</p><p>Okay, it's a long story. You have to understand my relationship with Michael before you'll know what happened.</p><p>Q: We have plenty of time. Please go on.</p><p>Both of us were into the leather lifestyle when we met through a personal ad. Michael's ad was very specific: he was looking for someone to completely dominate and modify to his pleasure. In other word, a slave.</p><p>The ad intrigued me. I had been in a number of B&amp;D scenes and also some S&amp;M, but I found them unsatisfying because they were all temporary. After the fun was over, everybody went on with life as usual.</p><p>I was looking for a complete life change. I wanted to meet someone who would be part of my life forever. Someone who would control me and change me at his whim.</p><p>Q: In other words, you're a true masochist.</p><p>Oh yes, no doubt about that. I've always been totally passive in my sexual relationships.</p><p>Anyway, we met and there was instant chemistry. Michael is a few years older than me and very good looking. Our personalities meshed totally. He's very dominant.</p><p>I went back to his place after drinks and had the best sex of my life. That's when I knew I was going to be with Michael for a long, long time.</p><p>Q: What sort of things did you two do?</p><p>It was very heavy right away. He restrained me and whipped me for quite awhile. He put clamps on my nipples and a ball gag in my mouth. And he hung a ball bag on my sack with some very heavy weights. That bag really bounced around when Michael fucked me from behind.</p><p>Q: Ouch.</p><p>(laughs) Yeah, no kidding. At first I didn't think I could take the pain, but Michael worked me through it and after awhile I was flying. I was sorry when it was over.</p><p>Michael enjoyed it as much as I did. Afterwards he talked about what kind of a commitment I'd have to make if I wanted to stay with him.</p><p>Q: What did he say exactly?</p><p>Well, besides agreeing to be his slave in every way, I'd have to be ready to be modified. To have my body modified.</p><p>Q: Did he explain what he meant by that?</p><p>Not specifically, but I got the general idea. I guessed that something like castration might be part of it.</p><p>Q: How did that make you feel?</p><p>(laughs) I think it would make any guy a little hesitant.</p><p>Q: But it didn't stop you from agreeing to Michael's terms?</p><p>No it didn't. I was totally hooked on this man. I knew that I was willing to pay any price to be with him.</p><p>Anyway, a few days later I moved in with Michael. He gave me the rules right away: I'd have to be naked at all times while we were indoors, except for a leather dog collar that I could never take off. I had to keep my head shaved. And I had to wear a butt plug except when I needed to take a shit or when we were having sex.</p><p>I had to sleep on the floor next to his bed. I ate all my food on the floor, too.</p><p>The next day he took me to a piercing parlor where he had my nipples done, and a Prince Albert put into the head of my cock.</p><p>Q: Heavy stuff.</p><p>Yeah, and it got heavier. He used me as a toilet, pissing in my mouth. I had to l</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Rob Malda is a 26-year old white male with a stocky build and a beard .
His head is shaved .
He responded to my ad to be interviewed for this article wearing only leather pants , leather boots and a leather vest .
I could see that both of his nipples were pierced with large-gauge silver rings.Questioner : I hope you wo n't be offended if I ask you to prove to me that you 're a nullo .
Just so that our readers will know that this is n't a fake.Rob : Sure , no problem .
( stands and unbuckles pants and drops them to his ankles , revealing a smooth , shaven crotch with only a thin scar to show where his genitals once were ) .Q : Thank you .
That 's a remarkable sight .
( laughs and pulls pants back up ) .
Most people think so.Q : What made you decide to become a nullo ? ( pauses ) .
Well , it really was n't entirely my decision.Q : Excuse me ? The idea was n't mine .
It was my lover 's idea.Q : Please explain what you mean.Okay , it 's a long story .
You have to understand my relationship with Michael before you 'll know what happened.Q : We have plenty of time .
Please go on.Both of us were into the leather lifestyle when we met through a personal ad .
Michael 's ad was very specific : he was looking for someone to completely dominate and modify to his pleasure .
In other word , a slave.The ad intrigued me .
I had been in a number of B&amp;D scenes and also some S&amp;M , but I found them unsatisfying because they were all temporary .
After the fun was over , everybody went on with life as usual.I was looking for a complete life change .
I wanted to meet someone who would be part of my life forever .
Someone who would control me and change me at his whim.Q : In other words , you 're a true masochist.Oh yes , no doubt about that .
I 've always been totally passive in my sexual relationships.Anyway , we met and there was instant chemistry .
Michael is a few years older than me and very good looking .
Our personalities meshed totally .
He 's very dominant.I went back to his place after drinks and had the best sex of my life .
That 's when I knew I was going to be with Michael for a long , long time.Q : What sort of things did you two do ? It was very heavy right away .
He restrained me and whipped me for quite awhile .
He put clamps on my nipples and a ball gag in my mouth .
And he hung a ball bag on my sack with some very heavy weights .
That bag really bounced around when Michael fucked me from behind.Q : Ouch .
( laughs ) Yeah , no kidding .
At first I did n't think I could take the pain , but Michael worked me through it and after awhile I was flying .
I was sorry when it was over.Michael enjoyed it as much as I did .
Afterwards he talked about what kind of a commitment I 'd have to make if I wanted to stay with him.Q : What did he say exactly ? Well , besides agreeing to be his slave in every way , I 'd have to be ready to be modified .
To have my body modified.Q : Did he explain what he meant by that ? Not specifically , but I got the general idea .
I guessed that something like castration might be part of it.Q : How did that make you feel ?
( laughs ) I think it would make any guy a little hesitant.Q : But it did n't stop you from agreeing to Michael 's terms ? No it did n't .
I was totally hooked on this man .
I knew that I was willing to pay any price to be with him.Anyway , a few days later I moved in with Michael .
He gave me the rules right away : I 'd have to be naked at all times while we were indoors , except for a leather dog collar that I could never take off .
I had to keep my head shaved .
And I had to wear a butt plug except when I needed to take a shit or when we were having sex.I had to sleep on the floor next to his bed .
I ate all my food on the floor , too.The next day he took me to a piercing parlor where he had my nipples done , and a Prince Albert put into the head of my cock.Q : Heavy stuff.Yeah , and it got heavier .
He used me as a toilet , pissing in my mouth .
I had to l</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Rob Malda is a 26-year old white male with a stocky build and a beard.
His head is shaved.
He responded to my ad to be interviewed for this article wearing only leather pants, leather boots and a leather vest.
I could see that both of his nipples were pierced with large-gauge silver rings.Questioner: I hope you won't be offended if I ask you to prove to me that you're a nullo.
Just so that our readers will know that this isn't a fake.Rob: Sure, no problem.
(stands and unbuckles pants and drops them to his ankles, revealing a smooth, shaven crotch with only a thin scar to show where his genitals once were).Q: Thank you.
That's a remarkable sight.
(laughs and pulls pants back up).
Most people think so.Q: What made you decide to become a nullo?(pauses).
Well, it really wasn't entirely my decision.Q: Excuse me?The idea wasn't mine.
It was my lover's idea.Q: Please explain what you mean.Okay, it's a long story.
You have to understand my relationship with Michael before you'll know what happened.Q: We have plenty of time.
Please go on.Both of us were into the leather lifestyle when we met through a personal ad.
Michael's ad was very specific: he was looking for someone to completely dominate and modify to his pleasure.
In other word, a slave.The ad intrigued me.
I had been in a number of B&amp;D scenes and also some S&amp;M, but I found them unsatisfying because they were all temporary.
After the fun was over, everybody went on with life as usual.I was looking for a complete life change.
I wanted to meet someone who would be part of my life forever.
Someone who would control me and change me at his whim.Q: In other words, you're a true masochist.Oh yes, no doubt about that.
I've always been totally passive in my sexual relationships.Anyway, we met and there was instant chemistry.
Michael is a few years older than me and very good looking.
Our personalities meshed totally.
He's very dominant.I went back to his place after drinks and had the best sex of my life.
That's when I knew I was going to be with Michael for a long, long time.Q: What sort of things did you two do?It was very heavy right away.
He restrained me and whipped me for quite awhile.
He put clamps on my nipples and a ball gag in my mouth.
And he hung a ball bag on my sack with some very heavy weights.
That bag really bounced around when Michael fucked me from behind.Q: Ouch.
(laughs) Yeah, no kidding.
At first I didn't think I could take the pain, but Michael worked me through it and after awhile I was flying.
I was sorry when it was over.Michael enjoyed it as much as I did.
Afterwards he talked about what kind of a commitment I'd have to make if I wanted to stay with him.Q: What did he say exactly?Well, besides agreeing to be his slave in every way, I'd have to be ready to be modified.
To have my body modified.Q: Did he explain what he meant by that?Not specifically, but I got the general idea.
I guessed that something like castration might be part of it.Q: How did that make you feel?
(laughs) I think it would make any guy a little hesitant.Q: But it didn't stop you from agreeing to Michael's terms?No it didn't.
I was totally hooked on this man.
I knew that I was willing to pay any price to be with him.Anyway, a few days later I moved in with Michael.
He gave me the rules right away: I'd have to be naked at all times while we were indoors, except for a leather dog collar that I could never take off.
I had to keep my head shaved.
And I had to wear a butt plug except when I needed to take a shit or when we were having sex.I had to sleep on the floor next to his bed.
I ate all my food on the floor, too.The next day he took me to a piercing parlor where he had my nipples done, and a Prince Albert put into the head of my cock.Q: Heavy stuff.Yeah, and it got heavier.
He used me as a toilet, pissing in my mouth.
I had to l</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28274875</id>
	<title>Re:Port apt-get to Windows and OS X</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244565480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p> This is something that I miss from my OpenSolaris box, which is my second computer.</p></div><p>how does opensolaris do it?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>This is something that I miss from my OpenSolaris box , which is my second computer.how does opensolaris do it ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext> This is something that I miss from my OpenSolaris box, which is my second computer.how does opensolaris do it?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28266937</id>
	<title>Re:Replying to self</title>
	<author>rgo</author>
	<datestamp>1244567100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.windowsmarketplace.com/" title="windowsmarketplace.com">Lindows Marketplace?</a> [windowsmarketplace.com]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Lindows Marketplace ?
[ windowsmarketplace.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Lindows Marketplace?
[windowsmarketplace.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265123</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265093</id>
	<title>Great Idea</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244559900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Let's call it freshmeat! or how about Repository!</p><p>Actually, i know what they are getting at. It should be a community that recommends or spotlights existing or new applications.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Let 's call it freshmeat !
or how about Repository ! Actually , i know what they are getting at .
It should be a community that recommends or spotlights existing or new applications .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Let's call it freshmeat!
or how about Repository!Actually, i know what they are getting at.
It should be a community that recommends or spotlights existing or new applications.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265293</id>
	<title>As a developer i don't find it's so attractive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244560800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a developer i don't find it's so attractive</p><p>I prefer to post Mac OS X, Windows and iPhone Apps. At least they allow any developer to get payed for developing software.<br>Why should I develop for free to let Novel collect money?<br>Developers should start to open their eyes<br>I will start to work for free when also others workers will start to work for free. At the moment only developers do that.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a developer i do n't find it 's so attractiveI prefer to post Mac OS X , Windows and iPhone Apps .
At least they allow any developer to get payed for developing software.Why should I develop for free to let Novel collect money ? Developers should start to open their eyesI will start to work for free when also others workers will start to work for free .
At the moment only developers do that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a developer i don't find it's so attractiveI prefer to post Mac OS X, Windows and iPhone Apps.
At least they allow any developer to get payed for developing software.Why should I develop for free to let Novel collect money?Developers should start to open their eyesI will start to work for free when also others workers will start to work for free.
At the moment only developers do that.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265393</id>
	<title>Terrible idea.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244561160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As many people will say it is a just a repository.<br>They may add reviews and ratings which will be a good thing but they shouldn't limit it to free as in beer software.<br>There is nothing that says you can not sell FOSS if they feel that they must keep it open source.  I would open it up to closed source software as well so you can create a real market for Linux software.<br>If you have both open and closed source developers you will have MORE software choices. You may have both GIMP and Photoshop Elements. GnuCash and Quicken, and SQLedger and QuickBooks.</p><p>I know the many Linux users find the idea of paying for anything to be evil but if you want more Linux users you need to find a way to get more Linux software.<br>One thing I really like about an app store is that it really seems to drive down the price of software. Look on the iPhone App store and you will find a lot of $1.99 to $5 software. Some of it is pretty good. There is also a lot of free as in beer software.  It does offer a way for programmers to make money and offers the end user a large selection of software.<br>And that is a great way to get more Netbook users happy with Linux and more developers developing for Linux. It could even help FOSS. A lot of professional developers do FOSS on the side. If they can make a living using Linux they will be motivated to do more FOSS projects as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As many people will say it is a just a repository.They may add reviews and ratings which will be a good thing but they should n't limit it to free as in beer software.There is nothing that says you can not sell FOSS if they feel that they must keep it open source .
I would open it up to closed source software as well so you can create a real market for Linux software.If you have both open and closed source developers you will have MORE software choices .
You may have both GIMP and Photoshop Elements .
GnuCash and Quicken , and SQLedger and QuickBooks.I know the many Linux users find the idea of paying for anything to be evil but if you want more Linux users you need to find a way to get more Linux software.One thing I really like about an app store is that it really seems to drive down the price of software .
Look on the iPhone App store and you will find a lot of $ 1.99 to $ 5 software .
Some of it is pretty good .
There is also a lot of free as in beer software .
It does offer a way for programmers to make money and offers the end user a large selection of software.And that is a great way to get more Netbook users happy with Linux and more developers developing for Linux .
It could even help FOSS .
A lot of professional developers do FOSS on the side .
If they can make a living using Linux they will be motivated to do more FOSS projects as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As many people will say it is a just a repository.They may add reviews and ratings which will be a good thing but they shouldn't limit it to free as in beer software.There is nothing that says you can not sell FOSS if they feel that they must keep it open source.
I would open it up to closed source software as well so you can create a real market for Linux software.If you have both open and closed source developers you will have MORE software choices.
You may have both GIMP and Photoshop Elements.
GnuCash and Quicken, and SQLedger and QuickBooks.I know the many Linux users find the idea of paying for anything to be evil but if you want more Linux users you need to find a way to get more Linux software.One thing I really like about an app store is that it really seems to drive down the price of software.
Look on the iPhone App store and you will find a lot of $1.99 to $5 software.
Some of it is pretty good.
There is also a lot of free as in beer software.
It does offer a way for programmers to make money and offers the end user a large selection of software.And that is a great way to get more Netbook users happy with Linux and more developers developing for Linux.
It could even help FOSS.
A lot of professional developers do FOSS on the side.
If they can make a living using Linux they will be motivated to do more FOSS projects as well.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265117</id>
	<title>Great Idea, just follow through Solidly.</title>
	<author>spiffydudex</author>
	<datestamp>1244559960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I wonder if it would act like the standard linux repositories. Just search and download. If this is followed through and done correctly, an open source "App Store" could give power to some not so well known apps. <br> <br>My only concern is with the title of "store" what will they be charging for? <br>Additionally could this implicate free software as we saw on the iPhone, lots and lots of extremely hampered trial-ware?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I wonder if it would act like the standard linux repositories .
Just search and download .
If this is followed through and done correctly , an open source " App Store " could give power to some not so well known apps .
My only concern is with the title of " store " what will they be charging for ?
Additionally could this implicate free software as we saw on the iPhone , lots and lots of extremely hampered trial-ware ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wonder if it would act like the standard linux repositories.
Just search and download.
If this is followed through and done correctly, an open source "App Store" could give power to some not so well known apps.
My only concern is with the title of "store" what will they be charging for?
Additionally could this implicate free software as we saw on the iPhone, lots and lots of extremely hampered trial-ware?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265347</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>kj\_kabaje</author>
	<datestamp>1244560980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>making FOSS more consumer friendly is not a bad thing.  giving people freedom of choice the can understand versus paying for limited choice seems to be pretty good.  who cares if it's just a web-based on downloadable interface for apt?</htmltext>
<tokenext>making FOSS more consumer friendly is not a bad thing .
giving people freedom of choice the can understand versus paying for limited choice seems to be pretty good .
who cares if it 's just a web-based on downloadable interface for apt ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>making FOSS more consumer friendly is not a bad thing.
giving people freedom of choice the can understand versus paying for limited choice seems to be pretty good.
who cares if it's just a web-based on downloadable interface for apt?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265071</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265729</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>pete.com</author>
	<datestamp>1244562720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think you meant suppository</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you meant suppository</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you meant suppository</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28266045</id>
	<title>Re:Port apt-get to Windows and OS X</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244563800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This sounds good and all, but I think that part of the problem is that the back-end assumed by apt-get is debian/linux. If you could develop a back-end that would work with windows and allow all apt-get applications to use it, that would then work.</p><p>The problem is like wine, only in reverse.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This sounds good and all , but I think that part of the problem is that the back-end assumed by apt-get is debian/linux .
If you could develop a back-end that would work with windows and allow all apt-get applications to use it , that would then work.The problem is like wine , only in reverse .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This sounds good and all, but I think that part of the problem is that the back-end assumed by apt-get is debian/linux.
If you could develop a back-end that would work with windows and allow all apt-get applications to use it, that would then work.The problem is like wine, only in reverse.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265455</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265919</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>dotancohen</author>
	<datestamp>1244563380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Kind of like a repository?</p></div><p>Exactly "like" a repository. The difference being that Joe Shmoe hears "repository" and knows that it's some technical thing that will confuse him. But an "apps store"? That will have what he needs!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Kind of like a repository ? Exactly " like " a repository .
The difference being that Joe Shmoe hears " repository " and knows that it 's some technical thing that will confuse him .
But an " apps store " ?
That will have what he needs !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kind of like a repository?Exactly "like" a repository.
The difference being that Joe Shmoe hears "repository" and knows that it's some technical thing that will confuse him.
But an "apps store"?
That will have what he needs!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265087</id>
	<title>It's free?</title>
	<author>b0ttle</author>
	<datestamp>1244559840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Where?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Where ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265859</id>
	<title>A solution to pay developers of free software</title>
	<author>otakuj462</author>
	<datestamp>1244563200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>I posted a very similar <a href="http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/19866/" title="ubuntu.com" rel="nofollow">idea</a> [ubuntu.com] to Ubuntu brainstorm a few weeks ago, as a proposed solution to the problem of paying developers of free (libre) software. I feel it's highly relevant to the dialog taking place here about this article, so I've copy-pasted some of it here:
<br>
<br>
Despite its closed nature, Apple's App Store has proven to be a tremendous success. The App Store model involves a central organization that approves and distributes commercial applications directly to users. The central organization takes a small percentage of the revenue generated on each app sold; the rest of the revenue goes directly in the pocket of the developer. The overall goal is to make it as easy as possible to connect users who want to pay for high-quality free software, to developers who want to produce that software.
<br>
<br>
It is very easy to imagine Canonical acting as the the central distributor in this model, as it currently performs this role already with software that is free-as-in-beer (much of it is free-as-in-speech as well). Additionally, much of the core technologies required for such an app store to exist are already in place: distribution, packaging and installation is all provided by apt; Synaptic provides a convenient graphical front-end for installation and package management. Perhaps, with small extensions to these existing systems, it would be possible to create an infrastructure to allow for individual payments to application developers.
<br>
<br>
It is also important to note that while Apple's app store primarily hosts non-free software (free as in beer, and free as in speech), and uses DRM to ensure that users do not make copies of this software, I believe that neither of these features are essential to the success of an Ubuntu App Store. It is possible to imagine individual users swapping<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.deb's of contribution-based software via filesharing networks, or visiting the authors' websites to compile "contribution-based" software from source and package it by hand; and, according to the terms of the GPL, and most other free software licenses, they would be completely within their rights to do so. However, such methods are much less convenient than simply clicking through a graphical interface, and obtaining your packages directly from Canonical, especially with respect to the demographic of non-technical users that Canonical would like to target. Just so long as value is added to the software in some way, be it by way of convenience or by some other means, then a "contribution-based" repository will be used over other methods of obtaining and installing the software. Additionally, I feel that many Ubuntu users would like to see developers get paid, and thus would be more inclined to use such a service.

<br>
<br>
In conclusion, while putting a price on software that has otherwise been free-as-in-cost might at first seem a bit unusual, we must consider that providing a convenient, direct mechanism for developers to be paid for their software will help, not harm, the Ubuntu GNU/Linux distribution, the ecosystem of free-as-in-speech software, and the Free Software Movement in general. It will attract more users and more developers to the Ubuntu GNU/Linux platform, especially as such a mechanism does not exist on Microsoft Windows. One need only look to the success of the Apple App Store, and Sun's soon-to-be-launched Java app store, to see that there is a demand for such a distribution model.

<br>
<br>
If you like this idea, please feel free to vote the it up on Ubuntu Brainstorm. Thanks,


<br>
<br>
Jake</htmltext>
<tokenext>I posted a very similar idea [ ubuntu.com ] to Ubuntu brainstorm a few weeks ago , as a proposed solution to the problem of paying developers of free ( libre ) software .
I feel it 's highly relevant to the dialog taking place here about this article , so I 've copy-pasted some of it here : Despite its closed nature , Apple 's App Store has proven to be a tremendous success .
The App Store model involves a central organization that approves and distributes commercial applications directly to users .
The central organization takes a small percentage of the revenue generated on each app sold ; the rest of the revenue goes directly in the pocket of the developer .
The overall goal is to make it as easy as possible to connect users who want to pay for high-quality free software , to developers who want to produce that software .
It is very easy to imagine Canonical acting as the the central distributor in this model , as it currently performs this role already with software that is free-as-in-beer ( much of it is free-as-in-speech as well ) .
Additionally , much of the core technologies required for such an app store to exist are already in place : distribution , packaging and installation is all provided by apt ; Synaptic provides a convenient graphical front-end for installation and package management .
Perhaps , with small extensions to these existing systems , it would be possible to create an infrastructure to allow for individual payments to application developers .
It is also important to note that while Apple 's app store primarily hosts non-free software ( free as in beer , and free as in speech ) , and uses DRM to ensure that users do not make copies of this software , I believe that neither of these features are essential to the success of an Ubuntu App Store .
It is possible to imagine individual users swapping .deb 's of contribution-based software via filesharing networks , or visiting the authors ' websites to compile " contribution-based " software from source and package it by hand ; and , according to the terms of the GPL , and most other free software licenses , they would be completely within their rights to do so .
However , such methods are much less convenient than simply clicking through a graphical interface , and obtaining your packages directly from Canonical , especially with respect to the demographic of non-technical users that Canonical would like to target .
Just so long as value is added to the software in some way , be it by way of convenience or by some other means , then a " contribution-based " repository will be used over other methods of obtaining and installing the software .
Additionally , I feel that many Ubuntu users would like to see developers get paid , and thus would be more inclined to use such a service .
In conclusion , while putting a price on software that has otherwise been free-as-in-cost might at first seem a bit unusual , we must consider that providing a convenient , direct mechanism for developers to be paid for their software will help , not harm , the Ubuntu GNU/Linux distribution , the ecosystem of free-as-in-speech software , and the Free Software Movement in general .
It will attract more users and more developers to the Ubuntu GNU/Linux platform , especially as such a mechanism does not exist on Microsoft Windows .
One need only look to the success of the Apple App Store , and Sun 's soon-to-be-launched Java app store , to see that there is a demand for such a distribution model .
If you like this idea , please feel free to vote the it up on Ubuntu Brainstorm .
Thanks , Jake</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I posted a very similar idea [ubuntu.com] to Ubuntu brainstorm a few weeks ago, as a proposed solution to the problem of paying developers of free (libre) software.
I feel it's highly relevant to the dialog taking place here about this article, so I've copy-pasted some of it here:


Despite its closed nature, Apple's App Store has proven to be a tremendous success.
The App Store model involves a central organization that approves and distributes commercial applications directly to users.
The central organization takes a small percentage of the revenue generated on each app sold; the rest of the revenue goes directly in the pocket of the developer.
The overall goal is to make it as easy as possible to connect users who want to pay for high-quality free software, to developers who want to produce that software.
It is very easy to imagine Canonical acting as the the central distributor in this model, as it currently performs this role already with software that is free-as-in-beer (much of it is free-as-in-speech as well).
Additionally, much of the core technologies required for such an app store to exist are already in place: distribution, packaging and installation is all provided by apt; Synaptic provides a convenient graphical front-end for installation and package management.
Perhaps, with small extensions to these existing systems, it would be possible to create an infrastructure to allow for individual payments to application developers.
It is also important to note that while Apple's app store primarily hosts non-free software (free as in beer, and free as in speech), and uses DRM to ensure that users do not make copies of this software, I believe that neither of these features are essential to the success of an Ubuntu App Store.
It is possible to imagine individual users swapping .deb's of contribution-based software via filesharing networks, or visiting the authors' websites to compile "contribution-based" software from source and package it by hand; and, according to the terms of the GPL, and most other free software licenses, they would be completely within their rights to do so.
However, such methods are much less convenient than simply clicking through a graphical interface, and obtaining your packages directly from Canonical, especially with respect to the demographic of non-technical users that Canonical would like to target.
Just so long as value is added to the software in some way, be it by way of convenience or by some other means, then a "contribution-based" repository will be used over other methods of obtaining and installing the software.
Additionally, I feel that many Ubuntu users would like to see developers get paid, and thus would be more inclined to use such a service.
In conclusion, while putting a price on software that has otherwise been free-as-in-cost might at first seem a bit unusual, we must consider that providing a convenient, direct mechanism for developers to be paid for their software will help, not harm, the Ubuntu GNU/Linux distribution, the ecosystem of free-as-in-speech software, and the Free Software Movement in general.
It will attract more users and more developers to the Ubuntu GNU/Linux platform, especially as such a mechanism does not exist on Microsoft Windows.
One need only look to the success of the Apple App Store, and Sun's soon-to-be-launched Java app store, to see that there is a demand for such a distribution model.
If you like this idea, please feel free to vote the it up on Ubuntu Brainstorm.
Thanks,




Jake</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28266001</id>
	<title>Donation does not work</title>
	<author>krischik</author>
	<datestamp>1244563680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Donation does not work all that well. But I am fully in favour for a Shop where the author can charge for his work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Donation does not work all that well .
But I am fully in favour for a Shop where the author can charge for his work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Donation does not work all that well.
But I am fully in favour for a Shop where the author can charge for his work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265121</id>
	<title>It would be nice if...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244559960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They added a feature to donate money to open source projects.  Or even allowed projects to sell their own open-source software in the store.  Or sell for cost add-ons to the open source software.  Yes, open source software could very well be downloaded elsewhere for free, but people might well pay for the convenience of getting it one place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They added a feature to donate money to open source projects .
Or even allowed projects to sell their own open-source software in the store .
Or sell for cost add-ons to the open source software .
Yes , open source software could very well be downloaded elsewhere for free , but people might well pay for the convenience of getting it one place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They added a feature to donate money to open source projects.
Or even allowed projects to sell their own open-source software in the store.
Or sell for cost add-ons to the open source software.
Yes, open source software could very well be downloaded elsewhere for free, but people might well pay for the convenience of getting it one place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265365</id>
	<title>Click N Run</title>
	<author>chill</author>
	<datestamp>1244561040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Linspire nee Lindows did this some years ago and it is still around.</p><p><a href="http://www.cnr.com/" title="cnr.com">http://www.cnr.com/</a> [cnr.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Linspire nee Lindows did this some years ago and it is still around.http : //www.cnr.com/ [ cnr.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Linspire nee Lindows did this some years ago and it is still around.http://www.cnr.com/ [cnr.com]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28269617</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>wastedlife</author>
	<datestamp>1244576700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Take Ubuntu for example - when it works, that's cool. When something breaks, it breaks ugly and you very quickly destroy the illusion of user-friendliness. Suspend/hibernate, for example. Works great for lots of folks, but when it doesn't... you're building custom hibernate scripts, installing kernel mods like Tux on Ice, etc.</p></div><p>That isn't a very good example. When suspend/hibernate does not work in windows, you are pretty much fucked or you need to dig around for a driver that might fix the problem. Is there a user-friendly way to fix that? Or what about when the MSI installer fails and breaks a bunch of things and leaves a bunch of bad registry entries and files, is there a user-friendly way to fix that?</p><p>As much as any one vendor will try to make things user-friendly, eventually something will go wrong and someone will need to get their hands dirty.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Take Ubuntu for example - when it works , that 's cool .
When something breaks , it breaks ugly and you very quickly destroy the illusion of user-friendliness .
Suspend/hibernate , for example .
Works great for lots of folks , but when it does n't... you 're building custom hibernate scripts , installing kernel mods like Tux on Ice , etc.That is n't a very good example .
When suspend/hibernate does not work in windows , you are pretty much fucked or you need to dig around for a driver that might fix the problem .
Is there a user-friendly way to fix that ?
Or what about when the MSI installer fails and breaks a bunch of things and leaves a bunch of bad registry entries and files , is there a user-friendly way to fix that ? As much as any one vendor will try to make things user-friendly , eventually something will go wrong and someone will need to get their hands dirty .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Take Ubuntu for example - when it works, that's cool.
When something breaks, it breaks ugly and you very quickly destroy the illusion of user-friendliness.
Suspend/hibernate, for example.
Works great for lots of folks, but when it doesn't... you're building custom hibernate scripts, installing kernel mods like Tux on Ice, etc.That isn't a very good example.
When suspend/hibernate does not work in windows, you are pretty much fucked or you need to dig around for a driver that might fix the problem.
Is there a user-friendly way to fix that?
Or what about when the MSI installer fails and breaks a bunch of things and leaves a bunch of bad registry entries and files, is there a user-friendly way to fix that?As much as any one vendor will try to make things user-friendly, eventually something will go wrong and someone will need to get their hands dirty.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265581</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28267321</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>jcupitt65</author>
	<datestamp>1244568360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think you're missing the key point of a repository: it's a (large) set of software packages that are tested to work <b>together</b>. If you let devs update their packages willy-nilly, you're going to get horrible breakage very quickly.

</p><p>Apple's app-store works because there are almost never (as far as I know) dependencies between apps. Updating an app might break the user's savefiles I guess, but it won't stop another app working. To make an analogy: an app store which devs can update can only ever contain leaves, you can't put any twigs/branches/trunk in there.

</p><p>I suppose you can imagine an app store built on top of apt. An extra repository which is guaranteed to only contain packages upon which nothing else depends, and which has much looser restrictions on updates.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think you 're missing the key point of a repository : it 's a ( large ) set of software packages that are tested to work together .
If you let devs update their packages willy-nilly , you 're going to get horrible breakage very quickly .
Apple 's app-store works because there are almost never ( as far as I know ) dependencies between apps .
Updating an app might break the user 's savefiles I guess , but it wo n't stop another app working .
To make an analogy : an app store which devs can update can only ever contain leaves , you ca n't put any twigs/branches/trunk in there .
I suppose you can imagine an app store built on top of apt .
An extra repository which is guaranteed to only contain packages upon which nothing else depends , and which has much looser restrictions on updates .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think you're missing the key point of a repository: it's a (large) set of software packages that are tested to work together.
If you let devs update their packages willy-nilly, you're going to get horrible breakage very quickly.
Apple's app-store works because there are almost never (as far as I know) dependencies between apps.
Updating an app might break the user's savefiles I guess, but it won't stop another app working.
To make an analogy: an app store which devs can update can only ever contain leaves, you can't put any twigs/branches/trunk in there.
I suppose you can imagine an app store built on top of apt.
An extra repository which is guaranteed to only contain packages upon which nothing else depends, and which has much looser restrictions on updates.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28267513</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>nine-times</author>
	<datestamp>1244569140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well for one thing, the GUIs for apt that I've seen don't really display things as discrete applications.  You search for an application, ask to install it, and then you're given a whole list of other packages and files that are going to need to be installed.  Now I'm not complaining about that behavior, but that's a very different experience than buying an iPhone app on iTunes.
</p><p>Also many packages aren't applications in themselves, but services, libraries, or other stuff that a non-technical end user wouldn't know what to do with.  The descriptions are vague and technical, and a lot of times you pretty well have to know what you want before you go looking for it.
</p><p>What I mean is, imagine I want to look for a word processor.  Right now Synaptic gives me 3 categories: "Word Processing", "Word Processing (multiverse)", and "Word Processing (universe)".  End users won't necessarily understand what to do with that breakdown, but let's say I just pick "Word Processing".  I'm given a couple hundred packages, including things like "linuxdoc-tools" and "myspell-bg" and "xmlto".  Kind of confusing, since I'm just looking for a word processor.
</p><p>OpenOffice is in the "Word Processor" category, but there are 20 different packages that all start with "openoffice.org", and it's not immediately clear which one I should be trying to install.  Strangely, Abiword isn't anywhere in the "Word Processing" category as far as I can tell.  If I do happen to find both Abiword and OpenOffice in Synaptic, it's not going to be very obvious to non-technical end-users which package they should install.  There aren't complete feature lists, screenshots, or links to the programs' homepages.  The descriptions themselves don't really give a whole lot of information, and there aren't user reviews to help me make my decision.
</p><p>The situation only gets worse if I'm trying to find a spreadsheet program.  There's a "Word Processing" category, but there's no "Spreadsheet" category.
</p><p>Now, like I said, I'm not complaining.  When I go to download an application, I like knowing which packages I'm going to be installing.  I know whether I want OpenOffice or Abiword.  But I bet this "app store" would be targeted toward people with less experience and knowledge, and who don't want to do a whole lot of research in order to find the program they want.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well for one thing , the GUIs for apt that I 've seen do n't really display things as discrete applications .
You search for an application , ask to install it , and then you 're given a whole list of other packages and files that are going to need to be installed .
Now I 'm not complaining about that behavior , but that 's a very different experience than buying an iPhone app on iTunes .
Also many packages are n't applications in themselves , but services , libraries , or other stuff that a non-technical end user would n't know what to do with .
The descriptions are vague and technical , and a lot of times you pretty well have to know what you want before you go looking for it .
What I mean is , imagine I want to look for a word processor .
Right now Synaptic gives me 3 categories : " Word Processing " , " Word Processing ( multiverse ) " , and " Word Processing ( universe ) " .
End users wo n't necessarily understand what to do with that breakdown , but let 's say I just pick " Word Processing " .
I 'm given a couple hundred packages , including things like " linuxdoc-tools " and " myspell-bg " and " xmlto " .
Kind of confusing , since I 'm just looking for a word processor .
OpenOffice is in the " Word Processor " category , but there are 20 different packages that all start with " openoffice.org " , and it 's not immediately clear which one I should be trying to install .
Strangely , Abiword is n't anywhere in the " Word Processing " category as far as I can tell .
If I do happen to find both Abiword and OpenOffice in Synaptic , it 's not going to be very obvious to non-technical end-users which package they should install .
There are n't complete feature lists , screenshots , or links to the programs ' homepages .
The descriptions themselves do n't really give a whole lot of information , and there are n't user reviews to help me make my decision .
The situation only gets worse if I 'm trying to find a spreadsheet program .
There 's a " Word Processing " category , but there 's no " Spreadsheet " category .
Now , like I said , I 'm not complaining .
When I go to download an application , I like knowing which packages I 'm going to be installing .
I know whether I want OpenOffice or Abiword .
But I bet this " app store " would be targeted toward people with less experience and knowledge , and who do n't want to do a whole lot of research in order to find the program they want .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well for one thing, the GUIs for apt that I've seen don't really display things as discrete applications.
You search for an application, ask to install it, and then you're given a whole list of other packages and files that are going to need to be installed.
Now I'm not complaining about that behavior, but that's a very different experience than buying an iPhone app on iTunes.
Also many packages aren't applications in themselves, but services, libraries, or other stuff that a non-technical end user wouldn't know what to do with.
The descriptions are vague and technical, and a lot of times you pretty well have to know what you want before you go looking for it.
What I mean is, imagine I want to look for a word processor.
Right now Synaptic gives me 3 categories: "Word Processing", "Word Processing (multiverse)", and "Word Processing (universe)".
End users won't necessarily understand what to do with that breakdown, but let's say I just pick "Word Processing".
I'm given a couple hundred packages, including things like "linuxdoc-tools" and "myspell-bg" and "xmlto".
Kind of confusing, since I'm just looking for a word processor.
OpenOffice is in the "Word Processor" category, but there are 20 different packages that all start with "openoffice.org", and it's not immediately clear which one I should be trying to install.
Strangely, Abiword isn't anywhere in the "Word Processing" category as far as I can tell.
If I do happen to find both Abiword and OpenOffice in Synaptic, it's not going to be very obvious to non-technical end-users which package they should install.
There aren't complete feature lists, screenshots, or links to the programs' homepages.
The descriptions themselves don't really give a whole lot of information, and there aren't user reviews to help me make my decision.
The situation only gets worse if I'm trying to find a spreadsheet program.
There's a "Word Processing" category, but there's no "Spreadsheet" category.
Now, like I said, I'm not complaining.
When I go to download an application, I like knowing which packages I'm going to be installing.
I know whether I want OpenOffice or Abiword.
But I bet this "app store" would be targeted toward people with less experience and knowledge, and who don't want to do a whole lot of research in order to find the program they want.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265071</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28269777</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>harlows\_monkeys</author>
	<datestamp>1244577480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Perhaps it will include things that aren't in Debian's repositories?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Perhaps it will include things that are n't in Debian 's repositories ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Perhaps it will include things that aren't in Debian's repositories?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265071</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265579</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244562060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>No.</p><p>It's more like something a typical linux newbee would be able to use.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>No.It 's more like something a typical linux newbee would be able to use .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>No.It's more like something a typical linux newbee would be able to use.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265699</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>noundi</author>
	<datestamp>1244562600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>To me a reposity is strictly a reposity. It should be a nice clean database. No opinions, no user comments, no news, nothing but software packages. What Novel is trying to do here could be all that. A portal that binds the community together with the devs. Plus if it's platform independent (yes all repos are platform independent but they aren't used as such so hush) it could allow dist specific apps to get some attention across the borders. I don't know, but I see no harm in this.</htmltext>
<tokenext>To me a reposity is strictly a reposity .
It should be a nice clean database .
No opinions , no user comments , no news , nothing but software packages .
What Novel is trying to do here could be all that .
A portal that binds the community together with the devs .
Plus if it 's platform independent ( yes all repos are platform independent but they are n't used as such so hush ) it could allow dist specific apps to get some attention across the borders .
I do n't know , but I see no harm in this .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>To me a reposity is strictly a reposity.
It should be a nice clean database.
No opinions, no user comments, no news, nothing but software packages.
What Novel is trying to do here could be all that.
A portal that binds the community together with the devs.
Plus if it's platform independent (yes all repos are platform independent but they aren't used as such so hush) it could allow dist specific apps to get some attention across the borders.
I don't know, but I see no harm in this.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28266121</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244564100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Use a non-distro repository. Problem solved.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Use a non-distro repository .
Problem solved .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Use a non-distro repository.
Problem solved.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28279529</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>jaq1an</author>
	<datestamp>1244648160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>can anyone say CNR or Linspire<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</htmltext>
<tokenext>can anyone say CNR or Linspire : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>can anyone say CNR or Linspire :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265703</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>dlgeek</author>
	<datestamp>1244562600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You're not characterizing the Debian/Mozilla disagreement very well - it had much more to do with the logo and a lot less with the patches. (When Mozilla granted Ubuntu the right to use the trademark, they announced "This is the right way to do patching!" on a diff LARGER than the Debian one. The Debian patches were mainly bugfixes already committed to Mozilla's CVS that hadn't shipped yet anyway).<br> <br>
The main issue is that Debian refuses to ship anything not under an open source license that meets the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG). While the Firefox codebase is free, the logo can not be distributed in modified form, violating the DFSG. For several years, Debian had an agreement with Mozilla that it was fine to ship Firefox named as-is but with a plain logo (though Debian still lobbied for a free logo). However, when the person in charge of trademark enforcement at Mozilla was replaced, they became much more concerned about branding and revoked this permission, insisting that it be shipped with either both the name and the logo or neither.<br> <br>
Debian was perfectly willing to do this is the logo was re-licensed under a free license (and still protected under trademark) but Mozilla was worried this would cause a dilution of their trademark and refused. Thus, unable to ship any non-free material because of their standards, Debian was forced to remove the name as well.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You 're not characterizing the Debian/Mozilla disagreement very well - it had much more to do with the logo and a lot less with the patches .
( When Mozilla granted Ubuntu the right to use the trademark , they announced " This is the right way to do patching !
" on a diff LARGER than the Debian one .
The Debian patches were mainly bugfixes already committed to Mozilla 's CVS that had n't shipped yet anyway ) .
The main issue is that Debian refuses to ship anything not under an open source license that meets the Debian Free Software Guidelines ( DFSG ) .
While the Firefox codebase is free , the logo can not be distributed in modified form , violating the DFSG .
For several years , Debian had an agreement with Mozilla that it was fine to ship Firefox named as-is but with a plain logo ( though Debian still lobbied for a free logo ) .
However , when the person in charge of trademark enforcement at Mozilla was replaced , they became much more concerned about branding and revoked this permission , insisting that it be shipped with either both the name and the logo or neither .
Debian was perfectly willing to do this is the logo was re-licensed under a free license ( and still protected under trademark ) but Mozilla was worried this would cause a dilution of their trademark and refused .
Thus , unable to ship any non-free material because of their standards , Debian was forced to remove the name as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You're not characterizing the Debian/Mozilla disagreement very well - it had much more to do with the logo and a lot less with the patches.
(When Mozilla granted Ubuntu the right to use the trademark, they announced "This is the right way to do patching!
" on a diff LARGER than the Debian one.
The Debian patches were mainly bugfixes already committed to Mozilla's CVS that hadn't shipped yet anyway).
The main issue is that Debian refuses to ship anything not under an open source license that meets the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG).
While the Firefox codebase is free, the logo can not be distributed in modified form, violating the DFSG.
For several years, Debian had an agreement with Mozilla that it was fine to ship Firefox named as-is but with a plain logo (though Debian still lobbied for a free logo).
However, when the person in charge of trademark enforcement at Mozilla was replaced, they became much more concerned about branding and revoked this permission, insisting that it be shipped with either both the name and the logo or neither.
Debian was perfectly willing to do this is the logo was re-licensed under a free license (and still protected under trademark) but Mozilla was worried this would cause a dilution of their trademark and refused.
Thus, unable to ship any non-free material because of their standards, Debian was forced to remove the name as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265071</id>
	<title>Apt</title>
	<author>Hatta</author>
	<datestamp>1244559780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>How does this differ from any of the GUI front ends available for Debian's apt?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>How does this differ from any of the GUI front ends available for Debian 's apt ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How does this differ from any of the GUI front ends available for Debian's apt?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265335</id>
	<title>One size fits all</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244560980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe this could be the start of integrating all the different package managers into one!</p><p>Can it be possible for all distributions to share a common package manager?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe this could be the start of integrating all the different package managers into one ! Can it be possible for all distributions to share a common package manager ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe this could be the start of integrating all the different package managers into one!Can it be possible for all distributions to share a common package manager?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265651</id>
	<title>Novell... its alive</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244562360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Oh sorry that was just a twitch from the electric shock..... its dead!.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Oh sorry that was just a twitch from the electric shock..... its dead ! .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Oh sorry that was just a twitch from the electric shock..... its dead!.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265447</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244561340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is probably more like OpenSuSE's "one-click install" service. Very useful if you need to install several packages that are not necessarily a dependency of each other. Like gstreamer plugins and win32 codecs for totem, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is probably more like OpenSuSE 's " one-click install " service .
Very useful if you need to install several packages that are not necessarily a dependency of each other .
Like gstreamer plugins and win32 codecs for totem , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is probably more like OpenSuSE's "one-click install" service.
Very useful if you need to install several packages that are not necessarily a dependency of each other.
Like gstreamer plugins and win32 codecs for totem, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265071</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28273591</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>sqldr</author>
	<datestamp>1244554200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think they're thinking more "apps", and not "libstdc++.so".</p><p>Imagine freshmeat, but without the reams and reams of crap in it.  A browseable interface with pictures, and "featured app of the month" and stuff.  There's probably countless applications out there that would might make my life easier or more entertaining, but it's impossible to find.  On games alone, look at all the unrated or 1/5 games on happypenguin.org.  "oh no, it's another pacman clone written by a 13 year old in perl".  If someone got paid to go through all this crap, and make it easy to install (which would basically be a point-and-click front-end to apt) it might be a good thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think they 're thinking more " apps " , and not " libstdc + + .so " .Imagine freshmeat , but without the reams and reams of crap in it .
A browseable interface with pictures , and " featured app of the month " and stuff .
There 's probably countless applications out there that would might make my life easier or more entertaining , but it 's impossible to find .
On games alone , look at all the unrated or 1/5 games on happypenguin.org .
" oh no , it 's another pacman clone written by a 13 year old in perl " .
If someone got paid to go through all this crap , and make it easy to install ( which would basically be a point-and-click front-end to apt ) it might be a good thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think they're thinking more "apps", and not "libstdc++.so".Imagine freshmeat, but without the reams and reams of crap in it.
A browseable interface with pictures, and "featured app of the month" and stuff.
There's probably countless applications out there that would might make my life easier or more entertaining, but it's impossible to find.
On games alone, look at all the unrated or 1/5 games on happypenguin.org.
"oh no, it's another pacman clone written by a 13 year old in perl".
If someone got paid to go through all this crap, and make it easy to install (which would basically be a point-and-click front-end to apt) it might be a good thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265969</id>
	<title>Re:Just new marketing..</title>
	<author>wvmarle</author>
	<datestamp>1244563560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I second that. If I'm looking for some software I first look in my distro's repository (Mandriva and Debian for me). Plus in case of Mandriva the PLF repository. Works for 95\% of the cases, a few clicks and done. If not there, I check for a package for my distro (rpm resp. deb). And if that doesn't work I normally give up already. I've tried (and often succeeded) compiling from source, but it's cumbersome and usually just not worth the effort.
</p><p>Installing in OS-X is also a breeze: double-click the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.dmg and drag&amp;drop the app usually. Windows on the other hand... back to the stone-age. It really all works different, and everyone is re-inventing the wheel it seems.</p><p>Oh and then I'm not even talking about the effort to find the software in the first place, especially if you don't have a name but just a general description! Such as "photo editor". You can search a Linux distro's repository for "photo editor" and get a handful options. Windows and OS-X have no such options, much more digging required...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I second that .
If I 'm looking for some software I first look in my distro 's repository ( Mandriva and Debian for me ) .
Plus in case of Mandriva the PLF repository .
Works for 95 \ % of the cases , a few clicks and done .
If not there , I check for a package for my distro ( rpm resp .
deb ) . And if that does n't work I normally give up already .
I 've tried ( and often succeeded ) compiling from source , but it 's cumbersome and usually just not worth the effort .
Installing in OS-X is also a breeze : double-click the .dmg and drag&amp;drop the app usually .
Windows on the other hand... back to the stone-age .
It really all works different , and everyone is re-inventing the wheel it seems.Oh and then I 'm not even talking about the effort to find the software in the first place , especially if you do n't have a name but just a general description !
Such as " photo editor " .
You can search a Linux distro 's repository for " photo editor " and get a handful options .
Windows and OS-X have no such options , much more digging required.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I second that.
If I'm looking for some software I first look in my distro's repository (Mandriva and Debian for me).
Plus in case of Mandriva the PLF repository.
Works for 95\% of the cases, a few clicks and done.
If not there, I check for a package for my distro (rpm resp.
deb). And if that doesn't work I normally give up already.
I've tried (and often succeeded) compiling from source, but it's cumbersome and usually just not worth the effort.
Installing in OS-X is also a breeze: double-click the .dmg and drag&amp;drop the app usually.
Windows on the other hand... back to the stone-age.
It really all works different, and everyone is re-inventing the wheel it seems.Oh and then I'm not even talking about the effort to find the software in the first place, especially if you don't have a name but just a general description!
Such as "photo editor".
You can search a Linux distro's repository for "photo editor" and get a handful options.
Windows and OS-X have no such options, much more digging required...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265251</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265431</id>
	<title>Novell just can't get it right</title>
	<author>C\_Kode</author>
	<datestamp>1244561280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There is no way an Open Source App store is going to work.  Open Source apps are already free and you can usually get most of them with yum / apt-get and you expect someone to pay to use your store?</p><p>Hell, this is a worse idea than Sun's Java App Store.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is no way an Open Source App store is going to work .
Open Source apps are already free and you can usually get most of them with yum / apt-get and you expect someone to pay to use your store ? Hell , this is a worse idea than Sun 's Java App Store .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is no way an Open Source App store is going to work.
Open Source apps are already free and you can usually get most of them with yum / apt-get and you expect someone to pay to use your store?Hell, this is a worse idea than Sun's Java App Store.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28267703</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>Dunkirk</author>
	<datestamp>1244569860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been using Linux on the desktop since early '95. Full time since about '97. For years and years and years, I waited -- sometimes impatiently -- for things like automatic mounting of CD's and USB sticks, and non-crashing (and non-duplicating) sync'ing of my various Palm devices. When they worked; they were great, and you're right. When they weren't working, there was a lot of fooling around with drivers and modules and init scripts and config files. But now all of that stuff works great. (At least for me, but I know I'm pretty hard on OS's, expecting them to be able to 14 things at once while I'm not looking.)</p><p>So, yeah, another front end for something like emerge or dpkg or rpm is something that will have problems, but that's how the problems get worked out in open source. I'm all for it. If enough people buy into it, there could be a version that goes on EVERY Linux distro, and figures out how to install the software for that particular platform. Even if all it did was handle that part and provide a slick way to zero in on the best-working applications for the task at hand, it would immediately cause Linux usage to skyrocket.</p><p>Look at it this way: when a user first loads up Linux, he asks himself, "Now what do I do?" He doesn't know that "xchat" is an IRC application, nor does he realize that there are DOZENS of alternatives. What about Firefox, Galeon, Epiphany, Opera, Seamonkey, Konqueror, links or lynx? NONE of them even say "browser" in their name. But seeing them in a category of "web browsers," and knowing that Firefox and (say) Konqueror were, by far, the most popular choices would give a newbie a huge leg up in deciding what to use. (Yes these would probably be installed by default. I'm just using this as an obvious example.)</p><p>So, please, bring it on, warts and all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been using Linux on the desktop since early '95 .
Full time since about '97 .
For years and years and years , I waited -- sometimes impatiently -- for things like automatic mounting of CD 's and USB sticks , and non-crashing ( and non-duplicating ) sync'ing of my various Palm devices .
When they worked ; they were great , and you 're right .
When they were n't working , there was a lot of fooling around with drivers and modules and init scripts and config files .
But now all of that stuff works great .
( At least for me , but I know I 'm pretty hard on OS 's , expecting them to be able to 14 things at once while I 'm not looking .
) So , yeah , another front end for something like emerge or dpkg or rpm is something that will have problems , but that 's how the problems get worked out in open source .
I 'm all for it .
If enough people buy into it , there could be a version that goes on EVERY Linux distro , and figures out how to install the software for that particular platform .
Even if all it did was handle that part and provide a slick way to zero in on the best-working applications for the task at hand , it would immediately cause Linux usage to skyrocket.Look at it this way : when a user first loads up Linux , he asks himself , " Now what do I do ?
" He does n't know that " xchat " is an IRC application , nor does he realize that there are DOZENS of alternatives .
What about Firefox , Galeon , Epiphany , Opera , Seamonkey , Konqueror , links or lynx ?
NONE of them even say " browser " in their name .
But seeing them in a category of " web browsers , " and knowing that Firefox and ( say ) Konqueror were , by far , the most popular choices would give a newbie a huge leg up in deciding what to use .
( Yes these would probably be installed by default .
I 'm just using this as an obvious example .
) So , please , bring it on , warts and all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been using Linux on the desktop since early '95.
Full time since about '97.
For years and years and years, I waited -- sometimes impatiently -- for things like automatic mounting of CD's and USB sticks, and non-crashing (and non-duplicating) sync'ing of my various Palm devices.
When they worked; they were great, and you're right.
When they weren't working, there was a lot of fooling around with drivers and modules and init scripts and config files.
But now all of that stuff works great.
(At least for me, but I know I'm pretty hard on OS's, expecting them to be able to 14 things at once while I'm not looking.
)So, yeah, another front end for something like emerge or dpkg or rpm is something that will have problems, but that's how the problems get worked out in open source.
I'm all for it.
If enough people buy into it, there could be a version that goes on EVERY Linux distro, and figures out how to install the software for that particular platform.
Even if all it did was handle that part and provide a slick way to zero in on the best-working applications for the task at hand, it would immediately cause Linux usage to skyrocket.Look at it this way: when a user first loads up Linux, he asks himself, "Now what do I do?
" He doesn't know that "xchat" is an IRC application, nor does he realize that there are DOZENS of alternatives.
What about Firefox, Galeon, Epiphany, Opera, Seamonkey, Konqueror, links or lynx?
NONE of them even say "browser" in their name.
But seeing them in a category of "web browsers," and knowing that Firefox and (say) Konqueror were, by far, the most popular choices would give a newbie a huge leg up in deciding what to use.
(Yes these would probably be installed by default.
I'm just using this as an obvious example.
)So, please, bring it on, warts and all.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265581</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265723</id>
	<title>why?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244562720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>doesn't apt-get work anymore?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>does n't apt-get work anymore ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>doesn't apt-get work anymore?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28266153</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>ShieldW0lf</author>
	<datestamp>1244564220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>In contrast, Linux distro repositories have a different philosophy:
They reserve the right not only to reject your software for any reason, but also to modify it via patches as well. The user is not informed that any patching has taken place. Sometimes this patching improves the software, but sometimes it totally breaks it. There are many examples of this (eg openssl).
This silent tampering is extensive and distributors are loathe to give it up. When Mozilla decided they didn't want the Firefox brand tarnished by extensive Debian patches, Debian decided they'd rather rename the product "Iceweasel" than give up this control.
<br> <br>Distros are not fresh. Typically the software that was around at the time of release is frozen and updates from upstream are not made available, unless they are security updates. Even then some distros prefer to "backport" security fixes, rather than simply follow upstream versioning. This results in a steady stream of useless bug reports to upstream for problems that were long since fixed. Once again, the developers are not in control of their own software.
<br> <br>
If Novell are actually interested in the app store approach, they're going to have to convince the suse developers to give up that level of control and make automated import of upstream binaries the norm. No more "packagers" for applications - that role will have to be obsoleted. And then they'll have to convince upstream developers to actually submit those binaries.</i> <br> <br>
You're missing one important thing in your little speech.  Repositories are not mutually exclusive.  Using a single repository is not the standard.  Having multiple repositories is the standard.  Setting up your own repository and having complete control over your distribution is entirely practical, and should be well within the capacities of anyone who is technically skilled enough to write software.</htmltext>
<tokenext>In contrast , Linux distro repositories have a different philosophy : They reserve the right not only to reject your software for any reason , but also to modify it via patches as well .
The user is not informed that any patching has taken place .
Sometimes this patching improves the software , but sometimes it totally breaks it .
There are many examples of this ( eg openssl ) .
This silent tampering is extensive and distributors are loathe to give it up .
When Mozilla decided they did n't want the Firefox brand tarnished by extensive Debian patches , Debian decided they 'd rather rename the product " Iceweasel " than give up this control .
Distros are not fresh .
Typically the software that was around at the time of release is frozen and updates from upstream are not made available , unless they are security updates .
Even then some distros prefer to " backport " security fixes , rather than simply follow upstream versioning .
This results in a steady stream of useless bug reports to upstream for problems that were long since fixed .
Once again , the developers are not in control of their own software .
If Novell are actually interested in the app store approach , they 're going to have to convince the suse developers to give up that level of control and make automated import of upstream binaries the norm .
No more " packagers " for applications - that role will have to be obsoleted .
And then they 'll have to convince upstream developers to actually submit those binaries .
You 're missing one important thing in your little speech .
Repositories are not mutually exclusive .
Using a single repository is not the standard .
Having multiple repositories is the standard .
Setting up your own repository and having complete control over your distribution is entirely practical , and should be well within the capacities of anyone who is technically skilled enough to write software .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In contrast, Linux distro repositories have a different philosophy:
They reserve the right not only to reject your software for any reason, but also to modify it via patches as well.
The user is not informed that any patching has taken place.
Sometimes this patching improves the software, but sometimes it totally breaks it.
There are many examples of this (eg openssl).
This silent tampering is extensive and distributors are loathe to give it up.
When Mozilla decided they didn't want the Firefox brand tarnished by extensive Debian patches, Debian decided they'd rather rename the product "Iceweasel" than give up this control.
Distros are not fresh.
Typically the software that was around at the time of release is frozen and updates from upstream are not made available, unless they are security updates.
Even then some distros prefer to "backport" security fixes, rather than simply follow upstream versioning.
This results in a steady stream of useless bug reports to upstream for problems that were long since fixed.
Once again, the developers are not in control of their own software.
If Novell are actually interested in the app store approach, they're going to have to convince the suse developers to give up that level of control and make automated import of upstream binaries the norm.
No more "packagers" for applications - that role will have to be obsoleted.
And then they'll have to convince upstream developers to actually submit those binaries.
You're missing one important thing in your little speech.
Repositories are not mutually exclusive.
Using a single repository is not the standard.
Having multiple repositories is the standard.
Setting up your own repository and having complete control over your distribution is entirely practical, and should be well within the capacities of anyone who is technically skilled enough to write software.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265231</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>Tubal-Cain</author>
	<datestamp>1244560560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Friendlier. Like Debian/Ubuntu's <tt>gnome-app-install</tt>.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Friendlier .
Like Debian/Ubuntu 's gnome-app-install .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Friendlier.
Like Debian/Ubuntu's gnome-app-install.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28268901</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>itsdapead</author>
	<datestamp>1244574360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Kind of like a repository?</p></div><p>Hopefully with some critical differences:
</p><ol>
<li>Designed for non-technical users for who, for some strange reason, are scared off by instructions like "add the wsfgl-public repository to your apt.conf file and then apt-get update; apt-get install wsfgl-1.27.15.2-stable".</li>
<li> <b>Not</b> designed by anybody who believes that <i>synaptic</i> is a solution to (1).</li>
<li>Has useful descriptions of packages (hint: "wsfgl-main is a metapackage which installs the latest stable builds of of wsfgl-server, wsfgl-client and libwsfgl" is only useful for a given value of "useful").</li>
<li>Has some sort of minimum standards to ensure that the software on it is complete, likely to work on your system and actually likely to be useful to the target users of the app store.</li>
<li>Includes all the features such as reviews, ratings, top 10s, screenshots which seem to be working for other App Stores.</li>
<li>Maybe, even, <i>includes premium applications that you pay for</i> Nobody ever said you couldn't charge for open source binaries - if you don't want to pay, the tarball is over there.</li>
<li>Doesn't purport to replace the traditional repository for techie people doing techie things.</li>
<li>Probably (I'm afraid) has a Windows version.</li>
<li>Is called something as close as possible to "App Store" as trademarks will permit. Maybe some user-testing of names to see if they recognise it as an "app store". Anybody whinging about the use of the word "Store" or picking nits about the meaning of "free" should be given a can of Jolt and a pizza and politely left to get on with coding.</li>
<li>There must be more fart applications than in the current repositories.</li>
</ol><p>Of course, Ubuntu has gone partly down that line with their two-tier package manager, but they need a bit of the hoopla.
</p><p>(PS: the name "wsfgl" is fictitious and any resemblence to any product of the same or similar name is purely coincidental. PPS: I <i>know</i> that libwsfgl was split into libwsfgl-core and libwsfgl-x11 with the 1.26.14 release for all non-PPC architectures, but Granny does not need to know that, thanks!)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Kind of like a repository ? Hopefully with some critical differences : Designed for non-technical users for who , for some strange reason , are scared off by instructions like " add the wsfgl-public repository to your apt.conf file and then apt-get update ; apt-get install wsfgl-1.27.15.2-stable " .
Not designed by anybody who believes that synaptic is a solution to ( 1 ) .
Has useful descriptions of packages ( hint : " wsfgl-main is a metapackage which installs the latest stable builds of of wsfgl-server , wsfgl-client and libwsfgl " is only useful for a given value of " useful " ) .
Has some sort of minimum standards to ensure that the software on it is complete , likely to work on your system and actually likely to be useful to the target users of the app store .
Includes all the features such as reviews , ratings , top 10s , screenshots which seem to be working for other App Stores .
Maybe , even , includes premium applications that you pay for Nobody ever said you could n't charge for open source binaries - if you do n't want to pay , the tarball is over there .
Does n't purport to replace the traditional repository for techie people doing techie things .
Probably ( I 'm afraid ) has a Windows version .
Is called something as close as possible to " App Store " as trademarks will permit .
Maybe some user-testing of names to see if they recognise it as an " app store " .
Anybody whinging about the use of the word " Store " or picking nits about the meaning of " free " should be given a can of Jolt and a pizza and politely left to get on with coding .
There must be more fart applications than in the current repositories .
Of course , Ubuntu has gone partly down that line with their two-tier package manager , but they need a bit of the hoopla .
( PS : the name " wsfgl " is fictitious and any resemblence to any product of the same or similar name is purely coincidental .
PPS : I know that libwsfgl was split into libwsfgl-core and libwsfgl-x11 with the 1.26.14 release for all non-PPC architectures , but Granny does not need to know that , thanks !
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kind of like a repository?Hopefully with some critical differences:

Designed for non-technical users for who, for some strange reason, are scared off by instructions like "add the wsfgl-public repository to your apt.conf file and then apt-get update; apt-get install wsfgl-1.27.15.2-stable".
Not designed by anybody who believes that synaptic is a solution to (1).
Has useful descriptions of packages (hint: "wsfgl-main is a metapackage which installs the latest stable builds of of wsfgl-server, wsfgl-client and libwsfgl" is only useful for a given value of "useful").
Has some sort of minimum standards to ensure that the software on it is complete, likely to work on your system and actually likely to be useful to the target users of the app store.
Includes all the features such as reviews, ratings, top 10s, screenshots which seem to be working for other App Stores.
Maybe, even, includes premium applications that you pay for Nobody ever said you couldn't charge for open source binaries - if you don't want to pay, the tarball is over there.
Doesn't purport to replace the traditional repository for techie people doing techie things.
Probably (I'm afraid) has a Windows version.
Is called something as close as possible to "App Store" as trademarks will permit.
Maybe some user-testing of names to see if they recognise it as an "app store".
Anybody whinging about the use of the word "Store" or picking nits about the meaning of "free" should be given a can of Jolt and a pizza and politely left to get on with coding.
There must be more fart applications than in the current repositories.
Of course, Ubuntu has gone partly down that line with their two-tier package manager, but they need a bit of the hoopla.
(PS: the name "wsfgl" is fictitious and any resemblence to any product of the same or similar name is purely coincidental.
PPS: I know that libwsfgl was split into libwsfgl-core and libwsfgl-x11 with the 1.26.14 release for all non-PPC architectures, but Granny does not need to know that, thanks!
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265749</id>
	<title>Re:It would be nice if...</title>
	<author>hotchai</author>
	<datestamp>1244562780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Doc Searls (editor of Linux Journal) is working on such a donation system as part of his "Vendor Relationship Management" or <a href="http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/projectvrm/Main\_Page" title="harvard.edu" rel="nofollow">VRM project</a> [harvard.edu] at the Berkman Center at Harvard. The idea is to be able to make small voluntary donations to the software author, or more generally the creator of any piece of work. The goal is make this easy -- simple click of a button that says "donate $5" and put you in control of how much of your personal information (name, credit card details etc.) you want the recipient to know.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Doc Searls ( editor of Linux Journal ) is working on such a donation system as part of his " Vendor Relationship Management " or VRM project [ harvard.edu ] at the Berkman Center at Harvard .
The idea is to be able to make small voluntary donations to the software author , or more generally the creator of any piece of work .
The goal is make this easy -- simple click of a button that says " donate $ 5 " and put you in control of how much of your personal information ( name , credit card details etc .
) you want the recipient to know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doc Searls (editor of Linux Journal) is working on such a donation system as part of his "Vendor Relationship Management" or VRM project [harvard.edu] at the Berkman Center at Harvard.
The idea is to be able to make small voluntary donations to the software author, or more generally the creator of any piece of work.
The goal is make this easy -- simple click of a button that says "donate $5" and put you in control of how much of your personal information (name, credit card details etc.
) you want the recipient to know.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</id>
	<title>So, in other words</title>
	<author>killmenow</author>
	<datestamp>1244559660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Kind of like a repository?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Kind of like a repository ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kind of like a repository?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265249</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244560620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Or like Linspire's Click &amp; Run</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Or like Linspire 's Click &amp; Run</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Or like Linspire's Click &amp; Run</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265479</id>
	<title>They should charge something</title>
	<author>KiwiCanuck</author>
	<datestamp>1244561460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe charge for access (subscription). Or charge a flat rate for posting, and then the owner can set the price. Eventually, owner will want to profit from their code. It would be better to have this infrastructure in place now. Rather than scrambling to build it later.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe charge for access ( subscription ) .
Or charge a flat rate for posting , and then the owner can set the price .
Eventually , owner will want to profit from their code .
It would be better to have this infrastructure in place now .
Rather than scrambling to build it later .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe charge for access (subscription).
Or charge a flat rate for posting, and then the owner can set the price.
Eventually, owner will want to profit from their code.
It would be better to have this infrastructure in place now.
Rather than scrambling to build it later.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265429</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>IamTheRealMike</author>
	<datestamp>1244561280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Well, there are a bunch of features mobile app stores have that repositories do not. For instance, the ability to post comments, or to rate programs. </p><p>The biggest difference though is in philosophy. Even if you assume a completely authoritarian app store like the iPhones, the apps you download from it are basically what the developers created. You are getting it "as the creator intended". And if you are comparing against Android rather than the iPhone, then the app store is very open, you can upload almost whatever you want within some basic limitations, like, you can't upload an app that violates some other services terms-of-service. Also, an app store is always fresh, because the latency from developers finishing QA on their binary and it being available to download is seconds, at least for Android.</p><p>In contrast, Linux distro repositories have a different philosophy:</p><ul><li> <p>They reserve the right not only to reject your software for any reason, but also to modify it via patches as well. The user is not informed that any patching has taken place. Sometimes this patching improves the software, but sometimes it totally breaks it. There are many examples of this (eg openssl).</p><p>This silent tampering is extensive and distributors are loathe to give it up. When Mozilla decided they didn't want the Firefox brand tarnished by extensive Debian patches, Debian decided they'd rather rename the product "Iceweasel" than give up this control.</p></li><li> <p>Distros are not fresh. Typically the software that was around at the time of release is frozen and updates from upstream are not made available, unless they are security updates. Even then some distros prefer to "backport" security fixes, rather than simply follow upstream versioning. This results in a steady stream of useless bug reports to upstream for problems that were long since fixed. Once again, the developers are not in control of their own software.</p></li></ul><p>If Novell are actually interested in the app store approach, they're going to have to convince the suse developers to give up that level of control and make automated import of upstream binaries the norm. No more "packagers" for applications - that role will have to be obsoleted. And then they'll have to convince upstream developers to actually submit those binaries.</p><p>I am doubtful that this will happen. Some years ago I promoted a more normal approach to app distribution on Linux (not an app store, but true web-based distribution). I was flatly told by several distribution employees that they weren't interested in losing control of the total software experience like that, and there would be no change in policy whilst they were around. So I gave up. These days I focus on Android - it's actually got a sane design and software distribution mechanism. Many of the things I wanted to see in Linux are in Android. Novell should be looking at how they can get in on that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..... unless they still think Linux is a viable mass-market desktop?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , there are a bunch of features mobile app stores have that repositories do not .
For instance , the ability to post comments , or to rate programs .
The biggest difference though is in philosophy .
Even if you assume a completely authoritarian app store like the iPhones , the apps you download from it are basically what the developers created .
You are getting it " as the creator intended " .
And if you are comparing against Android rather than the iPhone , then the app store is very open , you can upload almost whatever you want within some basic limitations , like , you ca n't upload an app that violates some other services terms-of-service .
Also , an app store is always fresh , because the latency from developers finishing QA on their binary and it being available to download is seconds , at least for Android.In contrast , Linux distro repositories have a different philosophy : They reserve the right not only to reject your software for any reason , but also to modify it via patches as well .
The user is not informed that any patching has taken place .
Sometimes this patching improves the software , but sometimes it totally breaks it .
There are many examples of this ( eg openssl ) .This silent tampering is extensive and distributors are loathe to give it up .
When Mozilla decided they did n't want the Firefox brand tarnished by extensive Debian patches , Debian decided they 'd rather rename the product " Iceweasel " than give up this control .
Distros are not fresh .
Typically the software that was around at the time of release is frozen and updates from upstream are not made available , unless they are security updates .
Even then some distros prefer to " backport " security fixes , rather than simply follow upstream versioning .
This results in a steady stream of useless bug reports to upstream for problems that were long since fixed .
Once again , the developers are not in control of their own software.If Novell are actually interested in the app store approach , they 're going to have to convince the suse developers to give up that level of control and make automated import of upstream binaries the norm .
No more " packagers " for applications - that role will have to be obsoleted .
And then they 'll have to convince upstream developers to actually submit those binaries.I am doubtful that this will happen .
Some years ago I promoted a more normal approach to app distribution on Linux ( not an app store , but true web-based distribution ) .
I was flatly told by several distribution employees that they were n't interested in losing control of the total software experience like that , and there would be no change in policy whilst they were around .
So I gave up .
These days I focus on Android - it 's actually got a sane design and software distribution mechanism .
Many of the things I wanted to see in Linux are in Android .
Novell should be looking at how they can get in on that ..... unless they still think Linux is a viable mass-market desktop ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, there are a bunch of features mobile app stores have that repositories do not.
For instance, the ability to post comments, or to rate programs.
The biggest difference though is in philosophy.
Even if you assume a completely authoritarian app store like the iPhones, the apps you download from it are basically what the developers created.
You are getting it "as the creator intended".
And if you are comparing against Android rather than the iPhone, then the app store is very open, you can upload almost whatever you want within some basic limitations, like, you can't upload an app that violates some other services terms-of-service.
Also, an app store is always fresh, because the latency from developers finishing QA on their binary and it being available to download is seconds, at least for Android.In contrast, Linux distro repositories have a different philosophy: They reserve the right not only to reject your software for any reason, but also to modify it via patches as well.
The user is not informed that any patching has taken place.
Sometimes this patching improves the software, but sometimes it totally breaks it.
There are many examples of this (eg openssl).This silent tampering is extensive and distributors are loathe to give it up.
When Mozilla decided they didn't want the Firefox brand tarnished by extensive Debian patches, Debian decided they'd rather rename the product "Iceweasel" than give up this control.
Distros are not fresh.
Typically the software that was around at the time of release is frozen and updates from upstream are not made available, unless they are security updates.
Even then some distros prefer to "backport" security fixes, rather than simply follow upstream versioning.
This results in a steady stream of useless bug reports to upstream for problems that were long since fixed.
Once again, the developers are not in control of their own software.If Novell are actually interested in the app store approach, they're going to have to convince the suse developers to give up that level of control and make automated import of upstream binaries the norm.
No more "packagers" for applications - that role will have to be obsoleted.
And then they'll have to convince upstream developers to actually submit those binaries.I am doubtful that this will happen.
Some years ago I promoted a more normal approach to app distribution on Linux (not an app store, but true web-based distribution).
I was flatly told by several distribution employees that they weren't interested in losing control of the total software experience like that, and there would be no change in policy whilst they were around.
So I gave up.
These days I focus on Android - it's actually got a sane design and software distribution mechanism.
Many of the things I wanted to see in Linux are in Android.
Novell should be looking at how they can get in on that ..... unless they still think Linux is a viable mass-market desktop?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265071</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265455</id>
	<title>Port apt-get to Windows and OS X</title>
	<author>javacowboy</author>
	<datestamp>1244561340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I just filed a patent for the idea of porting apt-get to Windows and OS X.   Now I'll be rich!  RICH!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p><p>BTW, I'm only kidding.</p><p>All kidding aside, I think this would be a good idea.   This would remove the hassle of finding, installing, and maintaining open source software for Windows and Mac users.  As a Mac user that has a lot of open source software installed (Firefox, OpenOffice, GIMP, Adium, etc), I find that MacPorts is lacking in functionality.    I spend too much time maintaining these software installations that could otherwise easily be done with a few clicks.   This is something that I miss from my OpenSolaris box, which is my second computer.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I just filed a patent for the idea of porting apt-get to Windows and OS X. Now I 'll be rich !
RICH ! : DBTW , I 'm only kidding.All kidding aside , I think this would be a good idea .
This would remove the hassle of finding , installing , and maintaining open source software for Windows and Mac users .
As a Mac user that has a lot of open source software installed ( Firefox , OpenOffice , GIMP , Adium , etc ) , I find that MacPorts is lacking in functionality .
I spend too much time maintaining these software installations that could otherwise easily be done with a few clicks .
This is something that I miss from my OpenSolaris box , which is my second computer .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I just filed a patent for the idea of porting apt-get to Windows and OS X.   Now I'll be rich!
RICH! :DBTW, I'm only kidding.All kidding aside, I think this would be a good idea.
This would remove the hassle of finding, installing, and maintaining open source software for Windows and Mac users.
As a Mac user that has a lot of open source software installed (Firefox, OpenOffice, GIMP, Adium, etc), I find that MacPorts is lacking in functionality.
I spend too much time maintaining these software installations that could otherwise easily be done with a few clicks.
This is something that I miss from my OpenSolaris box, which is my second computer.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265333</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>revlayle</author>
	<datestamp>1244560920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>not all open source apps are on a Linux platform</htmltext>
<tokenext>not all open source apps are on a Linux platform</tokentext>
<sentencetext>not all open source apps are on a Linux platform</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265071</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265581</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>WinterSolstice</author>
	<datestamp>1244562060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes - I think all of us thought of Synaptic, the Ports collection, etc.</p><p>Why is Novell building yet another stupid frontend for yum/apt-get/etc?<br>Does the world need this?</p><p>On a similar vein - does the linux community really need this? I mean, end-users using linux is nice and all (if that's what they want), but I just find that the more "user-friendly" they make these desktop distros, the harder it is to fix them when they break.</p><p>Take Ubuntu for example - when it works, that's cool. When something breaks, it breaks ugly and you very quickly destroy the illusion of user-friendliness. Suspend/hibernate, for example. Works great for lots of folks, but when it doesn't... you're building custom hibernate scripts, installing kernel mods like Tux on Ice, etc.</p><p>I just think that this is not a smart move from Novell's part. It will give the appearance of yet another bullet-proof polished tool that will clutter up the menu while giving the appearance of user-friendliness without the actual user-friendliness.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes - I think all of us thought of Synaptic , the Ports collection , etc.Why is Novell building yet another stupid frontend for yum/apt-get/etc ? Does the world need this ? On a similar vein - does the linux community really need this ?
I mean , end-users using linux is nice and all ( if that 's what they want ) , but I just find that the more " user-friendly " they make these desktop distros , the harder it is to fix them when they break.Take Ubuntu for example - when it works , that 's cool .
When something breaks , it breaks ugly and you very quickly destroy the illusion of user-friendliness .
Suspend/hibernate , for example .
Works great for lots of folks , but when it does n't... you 're building custom hibernate scripts , installing kernel mods like Tux on Ice , etc.I just think that this is not a smart move from Novell 's part .
It will give the appearance of yet another bullet-proof polished tool that will clutter up the menu while giving the appearance of user-friendliness without the actual user-friendliness .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes - I think all of us thought of Synaptic, the Ports collection, etc.Why is Novell building yet another stupid frontend for yum/apt-get/etc?Does the world need this?On a similar vein - does the linux community really need this?
I mean, end-users using linux is nice and all (if that's what they want), but I just find that the more "user-friendly" they make these desktop distros, the harder it is to fix them when they break.Take Ubuntu for example - when it works, that's cool.
When something breaks, it breaks ugly and you very quickly destroy the illusion of user-friendliness.
Suspend/hibernate, for example.
Works great for lots of folks, but when it doesn't... you're building custom hibernate scripts, installing kernel mods like Tux on Ice, etc.I just think that this is not a smart move from Novell's part.
It will give the appearance of yet another bullet-proof polished tool that will clutter up the menu while giving the appearance of user-friendliness without the actual user-friendliness.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265187</id>
	<title>why not let authors charge?</title>
	<author>trybywrench</author>
	<datestamp>1244560260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Why not let authors of the software charge just like the smart phone apps? Sounds like a revenue source for Novell and a revenue source for software writers. There can be a mix of free and not-free software in the "store" just like Apple's.<br> <br>
To answer my own question it sounds like Novell wants to leverage the "app store" hype and just put a front end on apt.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Why not let authors of the software charge just like the smart phone apps ?
Sounds like a revenue source for Novell and a revenue source for software writers .
There can be a mix of free and not-free software in the " store " just like Apple 's .
To answer my own question it sounds like Novell wants to leverage the " app store " hype and just put a front end on apt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why not let authors of the software charge just like the smart phone apps?
Sounds like a revenue source for Novell and a revenue source for software writers.
There can be a mix of free and not-free software in the "store" just like Apple's.
To answer my own question it sounds like Novell wants to leverage the "app store" hype and just put a front end on apt.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28293007</id>
	<title>Re:Terrible idea.</title>
	<author>pavithran</author>
	<datestamp>1244732280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Maybe you need to <b>understand</b> the business models  of free/open source software<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe you need to understand the business models of free/open source software : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe you need to understand the business models  of free/open source software :P</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265393</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28266139</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>Nursie</author>
	<datestamp>1244564160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What is seen as control to you is seen by debian users like me as a guarantee that the system is going to work.</p><p>There is nothing at all stopping you from putting software on from other sources. You can add apt sources, you can dump binaries on, you can buidl from source, do what the hell you like.</p><p>But the official distro repositories exist to provide distro-approved, working, stable software. Feel free to start your own repo if that's not good enough.</p><p>Debian has more available packages than any other system in existance, if I want something else I go elsewhere and change my expectations of stability accordingly. I'd say the system works absolutely perfectly.</p><p>And you actually *want* to have to go hunting all over the web for badly written, unstable and incompatible software?</p><p>No thanks.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What is seen as control to you is seen by debian users like me as a guarantee that the system is going to work.There is nothing at all stopping you from putting software on from other sources .
You can add apt sources , you can dump binaries on , you can buidl from source , do what the hell you like.But the official distro repositories exist to provide distro-approved , working , stable software .
Feel free to start your own repo if that 's not good enough.Debian has more available packages than any other system in existance , if I want something else I go elsewhere and change my expectations of stability accordingly .
I 'd say the system works absolutely perfectly.And you actually * want * to have to go hunting all over the web for badly written , unstable and incompatible software ? No thanks .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What is seen as control to you is seen by debian users like me as a guarantee that the system is going to work.There is nothing at all stopping you from putting software on from other sources.
You can add apt sources, you can dump binaries on, you can buidl from source, do what the hell you like.But the official distro repositories exist to provide distro-approved, working, stable software.
Feel free to start your own repo if that's not good enough.Debian has more available packages than any other system in existance, if I want something else I go elsewhere and change my expectations of stability accordingly.
I'd say the system works absolutely perfectly.And you actually *want* to have to go hunting all over the web for badly written, unstable and incompatible software?No thanks.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28267105</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>Hymer</author>
	<datestamp>1244567700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>"For instance, the ability to post comments..."</i> <br>Cool, a spamable repository.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" For instance , the ability to post comments... " Cool , a spamable repository .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"For instance, the ability to post comments..." Cool, a spamable repository.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265289</id>
	<title>Re:It would be nice if...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244560740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right...such as can be done by a few additions to your repos file and the use of Synaptic???</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right...such as can be done by a few additions to your repos file and the use of Synaptic ? ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right...such as can be done by a few additions to your repos file and the use of Synaptic??
?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265613</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>$1uck</author>
	<datestamp>1244562180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>One that makes sense to non-techies?  One that is presumably vetted by Novell?</htmltext>
<tokenext>One that makes sense to non-techies ?
One that is presumably vetted by Novell ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>One that makes sense to non-techies?
One that is presumably vetted by Novell?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265477</id>
	<title>... and get your machine contaminated with Mono</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244561460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Right! Microsoft/Novell helps you contaminate your machine with patent-encumbered Mono so that Microsoft can send you a bill for license fees.</p><p>Microsoft/Novell can also infect your machine with malware that reduces your fine Linux box to Windows grade security.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Microsoft can then legitimately say that Linux is as vulnerable to malware as is Windows.</p><p>Just a thought.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Right !
Microsoft/Novell helps you contaminate your machine with patent-encumbered Mono so that Microsoft can send you a bill for license fees.Microsoft/Novell can also infect your machine with malware that reduces your fine Linux box to Windows grade security .
... Microsoft can then legitimately say that Linux is as vulnerable to malware as is Windows.Just a thought .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Right!
Microsoft/Novell helps you contaminate your machine with patent-encumbered Mono so that Microsoft can send you a bill for license fees.Microsoft/Novell can also infect your machine with malware that reduces your fine Linux box to Windows grade security.
... Microsoft can then legitimately say that Linux is as vulnerable to malware as is Windows.Just a thought.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265823</id>
	<title>mo3 uP</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244563020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><A HREF="http://goat.cx/" title="goat.cx" rel="nofollow">number of FreeBSD complEtEly before</a> [goat.cx]</htmltext>
<tokenext>number of FreeBSD complEtEly before [ goat.cx ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>number of FreeBSD complEtEly before [goat.cx]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28271351</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>drizek</author>
	<datestamp>1244540820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It has an apple-ey sounding name...</p><p>It usually goes like this:</p><p>1. Group A invents something<br>2. Nobody buys it.<br>3. Apple does the same thing, but worse, and more expensive.<br>4. Everyone wants it.<br>5. Groups B-K try and copy Apple, making something better, uglier and cheaper.<br>6. Everyone still wants the Apple thing they can't afford.<br>7. Massive credit card debt and economic crisis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It has an apple-ey sounding name...It usually goes like this : 1 .
Group A invents something2 .
Nobody buys it.3 .
Apple does the same thing , but worse , and more expensive.4 .
Everyone wants it.5 .
Groups B-K try and copy Apple , making something better , uglier and cheaper.6 .
Everyone still wants the Apple thing they ca n't afford.7 .
Massive credit card debt and economic crisis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It has an apple-ey sounding name...It usually goes like this:1.
Group A invents something2.
Nobody buys it.3.
Apple does the same thing, but worse, and more expensive.4.
Everyone wants it.5.
Groups B-K try and copy Apple, making something better, uglier and cheaper.6.
Everyone still wants the Apple thing they can't afford.7.
Massive credit card debt and economic crisis.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265071</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265251</id>
	<title>Just new marketing..</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244560620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The idea of an "app store" has really been copied from the software repositories which have been used on OSS systems for many years...</p><p>An often used argument against Linux, is that users want to go down to  and buy boxed software to install... But you can't do that with the iphone, the iphone has a repository where you select software and it gets installed for you, just like linux, and this idea has worked very well. Infact, i would say this method works much better than boxed software from B&amp;M stores...</p><p>Users want to get software as easily (and usually cheaply) as possible, and if they were aware of just how much easier Linux makes it would actually prefer this method and consider it a strength of Linux, not a weakness.</p><p>So what we really need, is education and advertising to show people that Linux does this too, and that it's actually much better than having to fork over cash for physical media and have to install it yourself.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The idea of an " app store " has really been copied from the software repositories which have been used on OSS systems for many years...An often used argument against Linux , is that users want to go down to and buy boxed software to install... But you ca n't do that with the iphone , the iphone has a repository where you select software and it gets installed for you , just like linux , and this idea has worked very well .
Infact , i would say this method works much better than boxed software from B&amp;M stores...Users want to get software as easily ( and usually cheaply ) as possible , and if they were aware of just how much easier Linux makes it would actually prefer this method and consider it a strength of Linux , not a weakness.So what we really need , is education and advertising to show people that Linux does this too , and that it 's actually much better than having to fork over cash for physical media and have to install it yourself .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The idea of an "app store" has really been copied from the software repositories which have been used on OSS systems for many years...An often used argument against Linux, is that users want to go down to  and buy boxed software to install... But you can't do that with the iphone, the iphone has a repository where you select software and it gets installed for you, just like linux, and this idea has worked very well.
Infact, i would say this method works much better than boxed software from B&amp;M stores...Users want to get software as easily (and usually cheaply) as possible, and if they were aware of just how much easier Linux makes it would actually prefer this method and consider it a strength of Linux, not a weakness.So what we really need, is education and advertising to show people that Linux does this too, and that it's actually much better than having to fork over cash for physical media and have to install it yourself.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28266697</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244566380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While you have some truth in your statements (openssl) and other things have been corrected (Mozilla) I still look at you list as kind of oddly. Have you been slighted? As a user (perhaps one day, most likely when I retire, I'll be a dev) I've made patches for software for inclusion because not everyone writes things the way distros like them to be written (pathes, etc...).</p><p>And as far a stale goes, sometimes it's because they have to look at the bigger picture to get the program to work nicely with the rest of the software on a machine. If everyone used the latest version, then things wouldn't work cause you can't write things for the future, you write things for now.</p><p>But perhaps those issues will be taken care of by devs if they want them to be in the "store." This is something that Apple and Microsoft have a heads up on. Their OS doesn't change much so things are "easier."</p><p>On a complete side note, Firefox on XP is doing some weird graphic bulleting thing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While you have some truth in your statements ( openssl ) and other things have been corrected ( Mozilla ) I still look at you list as kind of oddly .
Have you been slighted ?
As a user ( perhaps one day , most likely when I retire , I 'll be a dev ) I 've made patches for software for inclusion because not everyone writes things the way distros like them to be written ( pathes , etc... ) .And as far a stale goes , sometimes it 's because they have to look at the bigger picture to get the program to work nicely with the rest of the software on a machine .
If everyone used the latest version , then things would n't work cause you ca n't write things for the future , you write things for now.But perhaps those issues will be taken care of by devs if they want them to be in the " store .
" This is something that Apple and Microsoft have a heads up on .
Their OS does n't change much so things are " easier .
" On a complete side note , Firefox on XP is doing some weird graphic bulleting thing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While you have some truth in your statements (openssl) and other things have been corrected (Mozilla) I still look at you list as kind of oddly.
Have you been slighted?
As a user (perhaps one day, most likely when I retire, I'll be a dev) I've made patches for software for inclusion because not everyone writes things the way distros like them to be written (pathes, etc...).And as far a stale goes, sometimes it's because they have to look at the bigger picture to get the program to work nicely with the rest of the software on a machine.
If everyone used the latest version, then things wouldn't work cause you can't write things for the future, you write things for now.But perhaps those issues will be taken care of by devs if they want them to be in the "store.
" This is something that Apple and Microsoft have a heads up on.
Their OS doesn't change much so things are "easier.
"On a complete side note, Firefox on XP is doing some weird graphic bulleting thing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265429</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265373</id>
	<title>Lets take a positive spin on this</title>
	<author>ITJC68</author>
	<datestamp>1244561040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>This can be good for the open source movement if it is done correctly. I agree with the previous posts that an application in their Linux products that would allow a customer to have an app that can download everything that will run and work for their Linux distro with an installer to make it easier for the non techies this would help adoption of Linux. I know Ubuntu and others have apt but if Novell does this with an option that would encourage donations to the writers with a safe option to donate without making people uncomfortable with transactions being safe this would work and get some much needed funds to the writers of the free software. A win win for open source and the developers. Again this would have to be done right. As a user at work with Suse Enterprise Desktop this would work as well as people who use the open version. I know there are some that hate Novell for the M$ pact so this won't matter to them.  And yes I have given donations to open source development.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This can be good for the open source movement if it is done correctly .
I agree with the previous posts that an application in their Linux products that would allow a customer to have an app that can download everything that will run and work for their Linux distro with an installer to make it easier for the non techies this would help adoption of Linux .
I know Ubuntu and others have apt but if Novell does this with an option that would encourage donations to the writers with a safe option to donate without making people uncomfortable with transactions being safe this would work and get some much needed funds to the writers of the free software .
A win win for open source and the developers .
Again this would have to be done right .
As a user at work with Suse Enterprise Desktop this would work as well as people who use the open version .
I know there are some that hate Novell for the M $ pact so this wo n't matter to them .
And yes I have given donations to open source development .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This can be good for the open source movement if it is done correctly.
I agree with the previous posts that an application in their Linux products that would allow a customer to have an app that can download everything that will run and work for their Linux distro with an installer to make it easier for the non techies this would help adoption of Linux.
I know Ubuntu and others have apt but if Novell does this with an option that would encourage donations to the writers with a safe option to donate without making people uncomfortable with transactions being safe this would work and get some much needed funds to the writers of the free software.
A win win for open source and the developers.
Again this would have to be done right.
As a user at work with Suse Enterprise Desktop this would work as well as people who use the open version.
I know there are some that hate Novell for the M$ pact so this won't matter to them.
And yes I have given donations to open source development.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265151</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>Fenax</author>
	<datestamp>1244560140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I suppose with comments from other users, users rating and a lot of web 2.0 useless stuff.

Could It be the year of Linux on the Netbook ?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</htmltext>
<tokenext>I suppose with comments from other users , users rating and a lot of web 2.0 useless stuff .
Could It be the year of Linux on the Netbook ?
.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I suppose with comments from other users, users rating and a lot of web 2.0 useless stuff.
Could It be the year of Linux on the Netbook ?
...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28266295</id>
	<title>Re:It would be nice if...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244564940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What's the point? Quality for-pay software is already available from other sources. A convenient way to donate might be nice, but that's a lot of extra complexity for a seldom-used feature. Just put in a reference to the project's web site where they will tell you the best way to donate.</p><p>The only real purpose I can see for charging is to make a living off the impulse buyers. I'm sure we can all find better ways to make money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What 's the point ?
Quality for-pay software is already available from other sources .
A convenient way to donate might be nice , but that 's a lot of extra complexity for a seldom-used feature .
Just put in a reference to the project 's web site where they will tell you the best way to donate.The only real purpose I can see for charging is to make a living off the impulse buyers .
I 'm sure we can all find better ways to make money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What's the point?
Quality for-pay software is already available from other sources.
A convenient way to donate might be nice, but that's a lot of extra complexity for a seldom-used feature.
Just put in a reference to the project's web site where they will tell you the best way to donate.The only real purpose I can see for charging is to make a living off the impulse buyers.
I'm sure we can all find better ways to make money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28268851</id>
	<title>Re:As a developer i don't find it's so attractive</title>
	<author>symbolset</author>
	<datestamp>1244574120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Of course.  The purpose of software is to generate revene for programmers and their employers.  The availability of free and convenient sources of good software demotivates the professsional programmer by devaluing his product until he can't get money for it unless it's innovative, more powerful or easier to use.
</p><p>These "free software" rogue programmers must be stopped!  If this were allowed to continue for a couple decades, the jerks might even make whole <i>operating systems</i> and office suites.  Average people might work an entire day without using any paid-for software at all.  This is anarchy.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Of course .
The purpose of software is to generate revene for programmers and their employers .
The availability of free and convenient sources of good software demotivates the professsional programmer by devaluing his product until he ca n't get money for it unless it 's innovative , more powerful or easier to use .
These " free software " rogue programmers must be stopped !
If this were allowed to continue for a couple decades , the jerks might even make whole operating systems and office suites .
Average people might work an entire day without using any paid-for software at all .
This is anarchy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Of course.
The purpose of software is to generate revene for programmers and their employers.
The availability of free and convenient sources of good software demotivates the professsional programmer by devaluing his product until he can't get money for it unless it's innovative, more powerful or easier to use.
These "free software" rogue programmers must be stopped!
If this were allowed to continue for a couple decades, the jerks might even make whole operating systems and office suites.
Average people might work an entire day without using any paid-for software at all.
This is anarchy.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265293</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265559</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244561940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>TFA doesn't state this, but I guess it could be an open source repository *including Windows versions*, in which case it could be a major step forward for Windows users - look here first before you start trawling random websites and end up with malware. I can't see anyone using it for Linux in preference to their own distros' repos.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>TFA does n't state this , but I guess it could be an open source repository * including Windows versions * , in which case it could be a major step forward for Windows users - look here first before you start trawling random websites and end up with malware .
I ca n't see anyone using it for Linux in preference to their own distros ' repos .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>TFA doesn't state this, but I guess it could be an open source repository *including Windows versions*, in which case it could be a major step forward for Windows users - look here first before you start trawling random websites and end up with malware.
I can't see anyone using it for Linux in preference to their own distros' repos.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265071</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28268483</id>
	<title>Re:1 Click Installer</title>
	<author>harryandthehenderson</author>
	<datestamp>1244572920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I for one, know I dont want 1 click everything with (for e.g. mono, imho novell really likes to push this on people) some screwy licensed software being eventually installed without being asked and or notified about it.</p></div><p>What is screwy in the licensing of mono? The various parts of the code are licensed either under the GPLv2, LGPLv2 and MIT.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I for one , know I dont want 1 click everything with ( for e.g .
mono , imho novell really likes to push this on people ) some screwy licensed software being eventually installed without being asked and or notified about it.What is screwy in the licensing of mono ?
The various parts of the code are licensed either under the GPLv2 , LGPLv2 and MIT .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I for one, know I dont want 1 click everything with (for e.g.
mono, imho novell really likes to push this on people) some screwy licensed software being eventually installed without being asked and or notified about it.What is screwy in the licensing of mono?
The various parts of the code are licensed either under the GPLv2, LGPLv2 and MIT.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265483</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265791</id>
	<title>Re:It would be nice if...</title>
	<author>wvmarle</author>
	<datestamp>1244562960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is quite close to my first thought about this: why does it have to be free? Just because it is for Linux or Open Source? Open Source does not necessarily mean free-of-charge, not even free-as-in-speech. That one can look at the source and modify it doesn't necessarily mean you have the right to redistribute it, or that you can obtain it for free.
</p><p>Now if only they can come with a simple way to pay small amounts (and that is a big issue - without having to buy "credits" in advance or whatever) I think it can give a great boost to open-source developers. If an application is good, well yes I'd happily donate a small amount (though much rather after obtaining it; not beforehand - try before you buy). Not US$50 or so - more like a dollar or two. Let a couple hundred people do so and the developer can buy himself a nice upgrade for his computer. Always nice when your hobby gives you something real in return.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is quite close to my first thought about this : why does it have to be free ?
Just because it is for Linux or Open Source ?
Open Source does not necessarily mean free-of-charge , not even free-as-in-speech .
That one can look at the source and modify it does n't necessarily mean you have the right to redistribute it , or that you can obtain it for free .
Now if only they can come with a simple way to pay small amounts ( and that is a big issue - without having to buy " credits " in advance or whatever ) I think it can give a great boost to open-source developers .
If an application is good , well yes I 'd happily donate a small amount ( though much rather after obtaining it ; not beforehand - try before you buy ) .
Not US $ 50 or so - more like a dollar or two .
Let a couple hundred people do so and the developer can buy himself a nice upgrade for his computer .
Always nice when your hobby gives you something real in return .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is quite close to my first thought about this: why does it have to be free?
Just because it is for Linux or Open Source?
Open Source does not necessarily mean free-of-charge, not even free-as-in-speech.
That one can look at the source and modify it doesn't necessarily mean you have the right to redistribute it, or that you can obtain it for free.
Now if only they can come with a simple way to pay small amounts (and that is a big issue - without having to buy "credits" in advance or whatever) I think it can give a great boost to open-source developers.
If an application is good, well yes I'd happily donate a small amount (though much rather after obtaining it; not beforehand - try before you buy).
Not US$50 or so - more like a dollar or two.
Let a couple hundred people do so and the developer can buy himself a nice upgrade for his computer.
Always nice when your hobby gives you something real in return.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265121</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265245</id>
	<title>Re:Great Idea, just follow through Solidly.</title>
	<author>jshackles</author>
	<datestamp>1244560620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I think they are mostly trying to capture the iphone / itunes / android / windows mobile / palm-pre marketplace mentality.  Nobody is interested when it's called a "repository" but if you call it an "app store" people will download....</htmltext>
<tokenext>I think they are mostly trying to capture the iphone / itunes / android / windows mobile / palm-pre marketplace mentality .
Nobody is interested when it 's called a " repository " but if you call it an " app store " people will download... .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think they are mostly trying to capture the iphone / itunes / android / windows mobile / palm-pre marketplace mentality.
Nobody is interested when it's called a "repository" but if you call it an "app store" people will download....</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265117</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265329</id>
	<title>Freshmeat ?</title>
	<author>sebt3</author>
	<datestamp>1244560920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>errr, Freshmeat isn't dead yet<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P</htmltext>
<tokenext>errr , Freshmeat is n't dead yet : P</tokentext>
<sentencetext>errr, Freshmeat isn't dead yet :P</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28277865</id>
	<title>Re:So, in other words</title>
	<author>Phoghat</author>
	<datestamp>1244639580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>more like a suppository</htmltext>
<tokenext>more like a suppository</tokentext>
<sentencetext>more like a suppository</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265057</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28267661</id>
	<title>Re:Apt</title>
	<author>RiotingPacifist</author>
	<datestamp>1244569680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are Repositories that are pretty fresh, fedora/arch/etc however there is a damn good reason that fewer people run fedora/arch/etc instead of debian/ubuntu/etc. (typing this from fedora 11). If novel want to show of OSS they will have to patch/stabilise/maintain those apps otherwise you end up with a store full of crappy unstable apps that don't work. Now novell could do something clever like allow developers to upload thier latest versions but have the default install stick to stable stabilized apps, however this is a PITA to maintain and would require much more work than either a crappy app store (ala apple) or an outdated repository (ala debian)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are Repositories that are pretty fresh , fedora/arch/etc however there is a damn good reason that fewer people run fedora/arch/etc instead of debian/ubuntu/etc .
( typing this from fedora 11 ) .
If novel want to show of OSS they will have to patch/stabilise/maintain those apps otherwise you end up with a store full of crappy unstable apps that do n't work .
Now novell could do something clever like allow developers to upload thier latest versions but have the default install stick to stable stabilized apps , however this is a PITA to maintain and would require much more work than either a crappy app store ( ala apple ) or an outdated repository ( ala debian )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are Repositories that are pretty fresh, fedora/arch/etc however there is a damn good reason that fewer people run fedora/arch/etc instead of debian/ubuntu/etc.
(typing this from fedora 11).
If novel want to show of OSS they will have to patch/stabilise/maintain those apps otherwise you end up with a store full of crappy unstable apps that don't work.
Now novell could do something clever like allow developers to upload thier latest versions but have the default install stick to stable stabilized apps, however this is a PITA to maintain and would require much more work than either a crappy app store (ala apple) or an outdated repository (ala debian)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_1340240.28265429</parent>
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