<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_09_0648204</id>
	<title>A Case Study of RMTs In <em>EVE Online</em></title>
	<author>Soulskill</author>
	<datestamp>1244534700000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>Kheldon writes with an article at MMO Gamer which explores <a href="http://www.mmogamer.com/06/08/2009/time-can-be-money-a-case-study-of-real-money-transactions-in-eve-online">how well real money transactions work in online games</a>, using <em>EVE Online</em> as a test case. Quoting:
<i>"... My next problem came from trying to sell the [Game Time cards] through the 'Time Code Bazaar' on the forums. While I quickly found buyers, none of them actually went through with the deal. This is the inherent problem with developer sanctioned RMT. Unless true, unfettered, player-to-player transactions are allowed without developer 'regulation,' the market will inevitably be operating inefficiently. Consider gold-farmers for a moment. Setting aside the moral or legal aspects of the trade, and considering from a purely economic standpoint, gold-farmers are the RMT equivalent of large corporations. They operate on the concept of 'economies-of-scale,' which basically means that up to a certain point, the larger a company is, the cheaper they can produce that product. Of course, companies that can produce a product more cheaply can undercut the competition while maintaining the same profit margin; meaning they'll make more sales, giving them more overall profit, and supporting the corporate growth, which furthers the economy of scale. This is the market at its most pure."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kheldon writes with an article at MMO Gamer which explores how well real money transactions work in online games , using EVE Online as a test case .
Quoting : " ... My next problem came from trying to sell the [ Game Time cards ] through the 'Time Code Bazaar ' on the forums .
While I quickly found buyers , none of them actually went through with the deal .
This is the inherent problem with developer sanctioned RMT .
Unless true , unfettered , player-to-player transactions are allowed without developer 'regulation, ' the market will inevitably be operating inefficiently .
Consider gold-farmers for a moment .
Setting aside the moral or legal aspects of the trade , and considering from a purely economic standpoint , gold-farmers are the RMT equivalent of large corporations .
They operate on the concept of 'economies-of-scale, ' which basically means that up to a certain point , the larger a company is , the cheaper they can produce that product .
Of course , companies that can produce a product more cheaply can undercut the competition while maintaining the same profit margin ; meaning they 'll make more sales , giving them more overall profit , and supporting the corporate growth , which furthers the economy of scale .
This is the market at its most pure .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kheldon writes with an article at MMO Gamer which explores how well real money transactions work in online games, using EVE Online as a test case.
Quoting:
"... My next problem came from trying to sell the [Game Time cards] through the 'Time Code Bazaar' on the forums.
While I quickly found buyers, none of them actually went through with the deal.
This is the inherent problem with developer sanctioned RMT.
Unless true, unfettered, player-to-player transactions are allowed without developer 'regulation,' the market will inevitably be operating inefficiently.
Consider gold-farmers for a moment.
Setting aside the moral or legal aspects of the trade, and considering from a purely economic standpoint, gold-farmers are the RMT equivalent of large corporations.
They operate on the concept of 'economies-of-scale,' which basically means that up to a certain point, the larger a company is, the cheaper they can produce that product.
Of course, companies that can produce a product more cheaply can undercut the competition while maintaining the same profit margin; meaning they'll make more sales, giving them more overall profit, and supporting the corporate growth, which furthers the economy of scale.
This is the market at its most pure.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262955</id>
	<title>Things I am glad to be missing out on</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244541600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have never played a game like EVE or WoW or any of these.  They are complicated and involving.  I have personally witnessed one man who had his middle-class lifestyle -- his house, wife and kids, job -- all lost because he couldn't stop playing games like these.  I'm not going to suggest that everyone is vulnerable to such demise from gaming addiction but there are unquestionably some that are.  But that's not the main reason I don't get involved in that stuff.  It's not "fun" when it's a source of additional stress and frustration.</p><p>I play games.  Make no mistake about it.  I play them and I get locked in and I become like a dog who is busy eating so don't interrupt me when I am into it.  But I also feel the difference between the importance of reality and "the here and now" of things.</p><p>When I see serious business, strife and even killing and suicides stem from these types of games, I have to wonder or even worry about what is really going on.  If I were one of those anti-game crusaders, I would target these MMORPGs rather than "violent" games.  I see a lot more tragedy associated with those types of games rather than those that are based on violent themes.  But thankfully, these are "worlds" that are completely opt-in and there are certainly worse worlds to get hooked on -- drugs, sex, gambling -- more examples of "addictive" and obsessive activities that can lead to some serious life consequences.  These things will always exist in humanity.  Try to control them and they will go underground and form dangerous sub-cultures.  Try to legalize and regulate them and you find yourself serving as referee in matters that are best for government not to be involved in.</p><p>It's a part of crazy-town that I am glad I don't live in.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have never played a game like EVE or WoW or any of these .
They are complicated and involving .
I have personally witnessed one man who had his middle-class lifestyle -- his house , wife and kids , job -- all lost because he could n't stop playing games like these .
I 'm not going to suggest that everyone is vulnerable to such demise from gaming addiction but there are unquestionably some that are .
But that 's not the main reason I do n't get involved in that stuff .
It 's not " fun " when it 's a source of additional stress and frustration.I play games .
Make no mistake about it .
I play them and I get locked in and I become like a dog who is busy eating so do n't interrupt me when I am into it .
But I also feel the difference between the importance of reality and " the here and now " of things.When I see serious business , strife and even killing and suicides stem from these types of games , I have to wonder or even worry about what is really going on .
If I were one of those anti-game crusaders , I would target these MMORPGs rather than " violent " games .
I see a lot more tragedy associated with those types of games rather than those that are based on violent themes .
But thankfully , these are " worlds " that are completely opt-in and there are certainly worse worlds to get hooked on -- drugs , sex , gambling -- more examples of " addictive " and obsessive activities that can lead to some serious life consequences .
These things will always exist in humanity .
Try to control them and they will go underground and form dangerous sub-cultures .
Try to legalize and regulate them and you find yourself serving as referee in matters that are best for government not to be involved in.It 's a part of crazy-town that I am glad I do n't live in .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have never played a game like EVE or WoW or any of these.
They are complicated and involving.
I have personally witnessed one man who had his middle-class lifestyle -- his house, wife and kids, job -- all lost because he couldn't stop playing games like these.
I'm not going to suggest that everyone is vulnerable to such demise from gaming addiction but there are unquestionably some that are.
But that's not the main reason I don't get involved in that stuff.
It's not "fun" when it's a source of additional stress and frustration.I play games.
Make no mistake about it.
I play them and I get locked in and I become like a dog who is busy eating so don't interrupt me when I am into it.
But I also feel the difference between the importance of reality and "the here and now" of things.When I see serious business, strife and even killing and suicides stem from these types of games, I have to wonder or even worry about what is really going on.
If I were one of those anti-game crusaders, I would target these MMORPGs rather than "violent" games.
I see a lot more tragedy associated with those types of games rather than those that are based on violent themes.
But thankfully, these are "worlds" that are completely opt-in and there are certainly worse worlds to get hooked on -- drugs, sex, gambling -- more examples of "addictive" and obsessive activities that can lead to some serious life consequences.
These things will always exist in humanity.
Try to control them and they will go underground and form dangerous sub-cultures.
Try to legalize and regulate them and you find yourself serving as referee in matters that are best for government not to be involved in.It's a part of crazy-town that I am glad I don't live in.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28290559</id>
	<title>Re:All fun and games until a *rich* guy comes alon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244711880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>They did sell at a respectable price, but it did depress down the ISK value of game time a lot.</p><p>Recently, the ISK value of 30 day PLEX has gone up considerably. Not enough supply to cover the demand from players who would rather pay ISK than USD/EUR for their subscription.</p><p>Personally I just grabbed two PLEXes worth of isk (a bit over 800 million) simply because I thought the price had gone up to a level that gave me good enough value. When a two PLEXes netted only 600 million, it didn't interest me nearly as much.</p><p>Free market economics at work. Effectively a player with more time than real money ponied up more ISK, to a point where I decided that the deal was good enough for me to pay his subscription for 2 months.</p><p>Of course there are rumors that current PLEX price hike is partially due to coordinated "pumping" of the price - someone is stockpiling a lot of PLEXes with ingame ISK, trying to drive up the price. Personally I can't see it working as if he dumps his large stock back on the market, the price will again go down (well, people stop buying until it does).</p><p>It is interesting to watch for sure<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>They did sell at a respectable price , but it did depress down the ISK value of game time a lot.Recently , the ISK value of 30 day PLEX has gone up considerably .
Not enough supply to cover the demand from players who would rather pay ISK than USD/EUR for their subscription.Personally I just grabbed two PLEXes worth of isk ( a bit over 800 million ) simply because I thought the price had gone up to a level that gave me good enough value .
When a two PLEXes netted only 600 million , it did n't interest me nearly as much.Free market economics at work .
Effectively a player with more time than real money ponied up more ISK , to a point where I decided that the deal was good enough for me to pay his subscription for 2 months.Of course there are rumors that current PLEX price hike is partially due to coordinated " pumping " of the price - someone is stockpiling a lot of PLEXes with ingame ISK , trying to drive up the price .
Personally I ca n't see it working as if he dumps his large stock back on the market , the price will again go down ( well , people stop buying until it does ) .It is interesting to watch for sure : )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They did sell at a respectable price, but it did depress down the ISK value of game time a lot.Recently, the ISK value of 30 day PLEX has gone up considerably.
Not enough supply to cover the demand from players who would rather pay ISK than USD/EUR for their subscription.Personally I just grabbed two PLEXes worth of isk (a bit over 800 million) simply because I thought the price had gone up to a level that gave me good enough value.
When a two PLEXes netted only 600 million, it didn't interest me nearly as much.Free market economics at work.
Effectively a player with more time than real money ponied up more ISK, to a point where I decided that the deal was good enough for me to pay his subscription for 2 months.Of course there are rumors that current PLEX price hike is partially due to coordinated "pumping" of the price - someone is stockpiling a lot of PLEXes with ingame ISK, trying to drive up the price.
Personally I can't see it working as if he dumps his large stock back on the market, the price will again go down (well, people stop buying until it does).It is interesting to watch for sure :)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265427</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262759</id>
	<title>Re:RMT is great for making money, not for amusemen</title>
	<author>goto begin</author>
	<datestamp>1244539380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>RMT is essentially unfettered inflation. Its printing money.</p></div><p>By that logic, so is growing apples - so long as there is a market for it and your prices are competitive. The total money supply does not increase, so I think the analogy of 'printing money' doesn't quite fit.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>RMT is essentially unfettered inflation .
Its printing money.By that logic , so is growing apples - so long as there is a market for it and your prices are competitive .
The total money supply does not increase , so I think the analogy of 'printing money ' does n't quite fit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RMT is essentially unfettered inflation.
Its printing money.By that logic, so is growing apples - so long as there is a market for it and your prices are competitive.
The total money supply does not increase, so I think the analogy of 'printing money' doesn't quite fit.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262707</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262749</id>
	<title>Bullshit</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244539260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>From a "purely economical" point of view, the best producer of in-game gold is the developer, since they can produce an infinite amount of gold (as well as any in-game item that gold can buy). They don't do it because that would ruin the game.<br>In a real world, a pure economic approach is feasible, because we (well, most of us materialistic bastards) agree that maximum production of goods and capital at peak efficiency is beneficial to society, e.g. the more everyone has, the better off we are. That means that in the real-world, accumulation of wealth is a positive-sum game.</p><p>This isn't the case in video games. Had the developers given everyone a zillion gold, it would ruin the game by destroying the fun of making and investing money. In other words, after a certain point, the more money EVERYONE has, the WORSE off everyone is, rather than better. The whole point of "fun" is to be able to earn more gold than your neighbor. In other words, the fun-factor is zero sum, or even-negative sum.</p><p>Therefore, gold farmers, by increasing the volumes of gold they produce and sell, give "fun" to those that buy the gold, AT THE DIRECT EXPENSE of all other players who did not buy the gold. Unless I'm an egoistical bastard, I wouldn't consider myself worse off if my neighbor won the lottery. In a MMORPG, however, the more others are better off than you, the worse your own position is. If that wasn't the case, there would be no need for an in-game economy to begin with, everyone would be just given everything they want for free (which the developers clearly can do from the technical standpoint, but don't do for clear gameplay reasons).</p><p>The bottom line is, that measuring the benefit of "gold farmers" from a purely economical point of view is complete and utter bullshit, because in-game economy has a completely different relationship to in-game enjoyment than a real-world economy has to real-life enjoyment.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>From a " purely economical " point of view , the best producer of in-game gold is the developer , since they can produce an infinite amount of gold ( as well as any in-game item that gold can buy ) .
They do n't do it because that would ruin the game.In a real world , a pure economic approach is feasible , because we ( well , most of us materialistic bastards ) agree that maximum production of goods and capital at peak efficiency is beneficial to society , e.g .
the more everyone has , the better off we are .
That means that in the real-world , accumulation of wealth is a positive-sum game.This is n't the case in video games .
Had the developers given everyone a zillion gold , it would ruin the game by destroying the fun of making and investing money .
In other words , after a certain point , the more money EVERYONE has , the WORSE off everyone is , rather than better .
The whole point of " fun " is to be able to earn more gold than your neighbor .
In other words , the fun-factor is zero sum , or even-negative sum.Therefore , gold farmers , by increasing the volumes of gold they produce and sell , give " fun " to those that buy the gold , AT THE DIRECT EXPENSE of all other players who did not buy the gold .
Unless I 'm an egoistical bastard , I would n't consider myself worse off if my neighbor won the lottery .
In a MMORPG , however , the more others are better off than you , the worse your own position is .
If that was n't the case , there would be no need for an in-game economy to begin with , everyone would be just given everything they want for free ( which the developers clearly can do from the technical standpoint , but do n't do for clear gameplay reasons ) .The bottom line is , that measuring the benefit of " gold farmers " from a purely economical point of view is complete and utter bullshit , because in-game economy has a completely different relationship to in-game enjoyment than a real-world economy has to real-life enjoyment .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From a "purely economical" point of view, the best producer of in-game gold is the developer, since they can produce an infinite amount of gold (as well as any in-game item that gold can buy).
They don't do it because that would ruin the game.In a real world, a pure economic approach is feasible, because we (well, most of us materialistic bastards) agree that maximum production of goods and capital at peak efficiency is beneficial to society, e.g.
the more everyone has, the better off we are.
That means that in the real-world, accumulation of wealth is a positive-sum game.This isn't the case in video games.
Had the developers given everyone a zillion gold, it would ruin the game by destroying the fun of making and investing money.
In other words, after a certain point, the more money EVERYONE has, the WORSE off everyone is, rather than better.
The whole point of "fun" is to be able to earn more gold than your neighbor.
In other words, the fun-factor is zero sum, or even-negative sum.Therefore, gold farmers, by increasing the volumes of gold they produce and sell, give "fun" to those that buy the gold, AT THE DIRECT EXPENSE of all other players who did not buy the gold.
Unless I'm an egoistical bastard, I wouldn't consider myself worse off if my neighbor won the lottery.
In a MMORPG, however, the more others are better off than you, the worse your own position is.
If that wasn't the case, there would be no need for an in-game economy to begin with, everyone would be just given everything they want for free (which the developers clearly can do from the technical standpoint, but don't do for clear gameplay reasons).The bottom line is, that measuring the benefit of "gold farmers" from a purely economical point of view is complete and utter bullshit, because in-game economy has a completely different relationship to in-game enjoyment than a real-world economy has to real-life enjoyment.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28268789</id>
	<title>Re:RMT is great for making money, not for amusemen</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244573940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>RMT is essentially unfettered inflation. Its printing money.</p></div><p>By that logic, so is growing apples - so long as there is a market for it and your prices are competitive. The total money supply does not increase, so I think the analogy of 'printing money' doesn't quite fit.</p></div><p>Indeed it is, says the Us Supreme Court in 1948:<br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard\_v.\_Filburn</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>RMT is essentially unfettered inflation .
Its printing money.By that logic , so is growing apples - so long as there is a market for it and your prices are competitive .
The total money supply does not increase , so I think the analogy of 'printing money ' does n't quite fit.Indeed it is , says the Us Supreme Court in 1948 : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard \ _v. \ _Filburn</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RMT is essentially unfettered inflation.
Its printing money.By that logic, so is growing apples - so long as there is a market for it and your prices are competitive.
The total money supply does not increase, so I think the analogy of 'printing money' doesn't quite fit.Indeed it is, says the Us Supreme Court in 1948:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard\_v.\_Filburn
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262759</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262701</id>
	<title>In the future...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244538720000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>there is war!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and first post.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>there is war !
... and first post .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>there is war!
... and first post.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264063</id>
	<title>Re:Bad research</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244554380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This is correct. Whoever wrote the original piece has no clue what they are talking about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This is correct .
Whoever wrote the original piece has no clue what they are talking about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This is correct.
Whoever wrote the original piece has no clue what they are talking about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262713</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263135</id>
	<title>entente</title>
	<author>Spaham</author>
	<datestamp>1244543940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You forget that without any kind of regulations, the big ones will talk to each other<br>and make secret agreements to keep prices high, while buying out (or killing/destroying competition).<br>Market autoregulation without any kind of rules is a myth, what you get is mafia and gang control.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You forget that without any kind of regulations , the big ones will talk to each otherand make secret agreements to keep prices high , while buying out ( or killing/destroying competition ) .Market autoregulation without any kind of rules is a myth , what you get is mafia and gang control .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You forget that without any kind of regulations, the big ones will talk to each otherand make secret agreements to keep prices high, while buying out (or killing/destroying competition).Market autoregulation without any kind of rules is a myth, what you get is mafia and gang control.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263049</id>
	<title>Re:Things I am glad to be missing out on</title>
	<author>jhcaocf197912</author>
	<datestamp>1244542980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I have never played a game like EVE or WoW or any of these.  They are complicated and involving.  I have personally witnessed one man who had his middle-class lifestyle -- his house, wife and kids, job -- all lost because he couldn't stop playing games like these.  I'm not going to suggest that everyone is vulnerable to such demise from gaming addiction but there are unquestionably some that are.  But that's not the main reason I don't get involved in that stuff.  It's not "fun" when it's a source of additional stress and frustration.</p><p>I play games.  Make no mistake about it.  I play them and I get locked in and I become like a dog who is busy eating so don't interrupt me when I am into it.  But I also feel the difference between the importance of reality and "the here and now" of things.</p><p>When I see serious business, strife and even killing and suicides stem from these types of games, I have to wonder or even worry about what is really going on.  If I were one of those anti-game crusaders, I would target these MMORPGs rather than "violent" games.  I see a lot more tragedy associated with those types of games rather than those that are based on violent themes.  But thankfully, these are "worlds" that are completely opt-in and there are certainly worse worlds to get hooked on -- drugs, sex, gambling -- more examples of "addictive" and obsessive activities that can lead to some serious life consequences.  These things will always exist in humanity.  Try to control them and they will go underground and form dangerous sub-cultures.  Try to legalize and regulate them and you find yourself serving as referee in matters that are best for government not to be involved in.</p><p>It's a part of crazy-town that I am glad I don't live in.</p></div><p>If you have an addiction, that's your problem. I play EVE and I don't have this addiction.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I have never played a game like EVE or WoW or any of these .
They are complicated and involving .
I have personally witnessed one man who had his middle-class lifestyle -- his house , wife and kids , job -- all lost because he could n't stop playing games like these .
I 'm not going to suggest that everyone is vulnerable to such demise from gaming addiction but there are unquestionably some that are .
But that 's not the main reason I do n't get involved in that stuff .
It 's not " fun " when it 's a source of additional stress and frustration.I play games .
Make no mistake about it .
I play them and I get locked in and I become like a dog who is busy eating so do n't interrupt me when I am into it .
But I also feel the difference between the importance of reality and " the here and now " of things.When I see serious business , strife and even killing and suicides stem from these types of games , I have to wonder or even worry about what is really going on .
If I were one of those anti-game crusaders , I would target these MMORPGs rather than " violent " games .
I see a lot more tragedy associated with those types of games rather than those that are based on violent themes .
But thankfully , these are " worlds " that are completely opt-in and there are certainly worse worlds to get hooked on -- drugs , sex , gambling -- more examples of " addictive " and obsessive activities that can lead to some serious life consequences .
These things will always exist in humanity .
Try to control them and they will go underground and form dangerous sub-cultures .
Try to legalize and regulate them and you find yourself serving as referee in matters that are best for government not to be involved in.It 's a part of crazy-town that I am glad I do n't live in.If you have an addiction , that 's your problem .
I play EVE and I do n't have this addiction .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have never played a game like EVE or WoW or any of these.
They are complicated and involving.
I have personally witnessed one man who had his middle-class lifestyle -- his house, wife and kids, job -- all lost because he couldn't stop playing games like these.
I'm not going to suggest that everyone is vulnerable to such demise from gaming addiction but there are unquestionably some that are.
But that's not the main reason I don't get involved in that stuff.
It's not "fun" when it's a source of additional stress and frustration.I play games.
Make no mistake about it.
I play them and I get locked in and I become like a dog who is busy eating so don't interrupt me when I am into it.
But I also feel the difference between the importance of reality and "the here and now" of things.When I see serious business, strife and even killing and suicides stem from these types of games, I have to wonder or even worry about what is really going on.
If I were one of those anti-game crusaders, I would target these MMORPGs rather than "violent" games.
I see a lot more tragedy associated with those types of games rather than those that are based on violent themes.
But thankfully, these are "worlds" that are completely opt-in and there are certainly worse worlds to get hooked on -- drugs, sex, gambling -- more examples of "addictive" and obsessive activities that can lead to some serious life consequences.
These things will always exist in humanity.
Try to control them and they will go underground and form dangerous sub-cultures.
Try to legalize and regulate them and you find yourself serving as referee in matters that are best for government not to be involved in.It's a part of crazy-town that I am glad I don't live in.If you have an addiction, that's your problem.
I play EVE and I don't have this addiction.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262955</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264019</id>
	<title>Re:Things I am glad to be missing out on</title>
	<author>stonewallred</author>
	<datestamp>1244554140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Reason on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.? Good gawd, someone mod this poster into oblivion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Reason on /. ?
Good gawd , someone mod this poster into oblivion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Reason on /.?
Good gawd, someone mod this poster into oblivion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263049</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262691</id>
	<title>PLEX</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244538600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>there is an ingame item called a PLEX, which is listable on the market &amp; redeemable for 30 days of play time.</p><p>Keep up, douche bag</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>there is an ingame item called a PLEX , which is listable on the market &amp; redeemable for 30 days of play time.Keep up , douche bag</tokentext>
<sentencetext>there is an ingame item called a PLEX, which is listable on the market &amp; redeemable for 30 days of play time.Keep up, douche bag</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28268979</id>
	<title>Good article.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244574660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>MMOs that allow and facilitate RMT are the future of online gaming, and CCP will have to adopt and embrace that business model eventually.</p><p>Before CCP could become a real force in any RMT MMO industry, they'd first need to clean-house substantially and become a less corrupt and more professional company overall.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>MMOs that allow and facilitate RMT are the future of online gaming , and CCP will have to adopt and embrace that business model eventually.Before CCP could become a real force in any RMT MMO industry , they 'd first need to clean-house substantially and become a less corrupt and more professional company overall .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>MMOs that allow and facilitate RMT are the future of online gaming, and CCP will have to adopt and embrace that business model eventually.Before CCP could become a real force in any RMT MMO industry, they'd first need to clean-house substantially and become a less corrupt and more professional company overall.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265157</id>
	<title>FAIL Article</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244560140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>As a long time and current player of EVE, I have no problem chiming in with a little MMO-Talk and give this article a definate "FAIL" rating.</p><p>As an individual pointed out above (and Im not going to re-type it) there is a way to securely purchase PLEX (which is a Game Time Card) directly from CCP, and then sell it on the open market in EVE.</p><p>For a time I even speculated on and traded in PLEX, and made a small profit of a couple hundred million by buying the PLEX at lower rates from anxious sellers and then listing it at a higher price to those wishing to buy it directly from the market with ISK (as opposed to buying it from CCP with a credit card).</p><p>The nifty thing about the approach that CCP has taken with PLEX is that its some what subject to the same market dynamics that govern the rest of the EVE economy (the only manner in which it is not is that CCP cannot [or does not?] directly regulate the number of players that purchase PLEX directly from CCP with a credit card in a given time period, and thus cannot/does not regulate supply).  The amusing thing about it is, with dastardly middle men like myself around, Im more than happy to scoop up the surplus and create a market shortfall to increase my profit (insert evil smiley)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>As a long time and current player of EVE , I have no problem chiming in with a little MMO-Talk and give this article a definate " FAIL " rating.As an individual pointed out above ( and Im not going to re-type it ) there is a way to securely purchase PLEX ( which is a Game Time Card ) directly from CCP , and then sell it on the open market in EVE.For a time I even speculated on and traded in PLEX , and made a small profit of a couple hundred million by buying the PLEX at lower rates from anxious sellers and then listing it at a higher price to those wishing to buy it directly from the market with ISK ( as opposed to buying it from CCP with a credit card ) .The nifty thing about the approach that CCP has taken with PLEX is that its some what subject to the same market dynamics that govern the rest of the EVE economy ( the only manner in which it is not is that CCP can not [ or does not ?
] directly regulate the number of players that purchase PLEX directly from CCP with a credit card in a given time period , and thus can not/does not regulate supply ) .
The amusing thing about it is , with dastardly middle men like myself around , Im more than happy to scoop up the surplus and create a market shortfall to increase my profit ( insert evil smiley )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a long time and current player of EVE, I have no problem chiming in with a little MMO-Talk and give this article a definate "FAIL" rating.As an individual pointed out above (and Im not going to re-type it) there is a way to securely purchase PLEX (which is a Game Time Card) directly from CCP, and then sell it on the open market in EVE.For a time I even speculated on and traded in PLEX, and made a small profit of a couple hundred million by buying the PLEX at lower rates from anxious sellers and then listing it at a higher price to those wishing to buy it directly from the market with ISK (as opposed to buying it from CCP with a credit card).The nifty thing about the approach that CCP has taken with PLEX is that its some what subject to the same market dynamics that govern the rest of the EVE economy (the only manner in which it is not is that CCP cannot [or does not?
] directly regulate the number of players that purchase PLEX directly from CCP with a credit card in a given time period, and thus cannot/does not regulate supply).
The amusing thing about it is, with dastardly middle men like myself around, Im more than happy to scoop up the surplus and create a market shortfall to increase my profit (insert evil smiley)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264001</id>
	<title>I prefer the current system</title>
	<author>Turzyx</author>
	<datestamp>1244553960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>I played EVE for nearly 2 years, WoW for the same and in total have been an avid video game fanatic for about 15 years.
<br> <br>
It's virtually a given that cheats, exploits/hacks, and with the rise of MMOGs, RMT, will never ever be eliminated from the gaming world. In fact, the former two is what makes some games totally great (perma beserker mode in Doom, and DK mode in Goldeneye spring immediately to mind) and developers include these 'features' on purpose, often taking suggestions from the community at large.
<br> <br>
In EVE, like all other MMOs, RMT is a big problem. Corporations and alliances farming materials purely for real world money-making, often hogging research and manufacturing slots aswell; although the cost of holding such slots increases expontially with time now I believe.
<br> <br>
CCP (the developer) used to 'unofficially' allow trading of game time cards, sold in increments of 30 days unlimited play time, for in game currency, but as time when on and more people tricked by unscrupulous businessmen, it became clear that regulation was required in order to prevent the cut-throat ingame attitude spilling out into real world, real money, scamming. The current system involves buying a game time card and putting the code with a set price in 'escrow' for another player to purchase with ingame currency. The player checks his account page and accepts the trade, the game time is added to his account automatically and the seller gets the ingame ISK.
<br> <br>
This system is win-win-win for everyone, with no moral issues to contend with (unless someone is so addicted they are using their food money to buy game time cards, of course), CCP gets paid for the game time card, the buyer gets to pay for an MMO by playing more, and the seller gets to bypass boring grinding.
<br> <br>
I much prefer this system than the alternative.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I played EVE for nearly 2 years , WoW for the same and in total have been an avid video game fanatic for about 15 years .
It 's virtually a given that cheats , exploits/hacks , and with the rise of MMOGs , RMT , will never ever be eliminated from the gaming world .
In fact , the former two is what makes some games totally great ( perma beserker mode in Doom , and DK mode in Goldeneye spring immediately to mind ) and developers include these 'features ' on purpose , often taking suggestions from the community at large .
In EVE , like all other MMOs , RMT is a big problem .
Corporations and alliances farming materials purely for real world money-making , often hogging research and manufacturing slots aswell ; although the cost of holding such slots increases expontially with time now I believe .
CCP ( the developer ) used to 'unofficially ' allow trading of game time cards , sold in increments of 30 days unlimited play time , for in game currency , but as time when on and more people tricked by unscrupulous businessmen , it became clear that regulation was required in order to prevent the cut-throat ingame attitude spilling out into real world , real money , scamming .
The current system involves buying a game time card and putting the code with a set price in 'escrow ' for another player to purchase with ingame currency .
The player checks his account page and accepts the trade , the game time is added to his account automatically and the seller gets the ingame ISK .
This system is win-win-win for everyone , with no moral issues to contend with ( unless someone is so addicted they are using their food money to buy game time cards , of course ) , CCP gets paid for the game time card , the buyer gets to pay for an MMO by playing more , and the seller gets to bypass boring grinding .
I much prefer this system than the alternative .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I played EVE for nearly 2 years, WoW for the same and in total have been an avid video game fanatic for about 15 years.
It's virtually a given that cheats, exploits/hacks, and with the rise of MMOGs, RMT, will never ever be eliminated from the gaming world.
In fact, the former two is what makes some games totally great (perma beserker mode in Doom, and DK mode in Goldeneye spring immediately to mind) and developers include these 'features' on purpose, often taking suggestions from the community at large.
In EVE, like all other MMOs, RMT is a big problem.
Corporations and alliances farming materials purely for real world money-making, often hogging research and manufacturing slots aswell; although the cost of holding such slots increases expontially with time now I believe.
CCP (the developer) used to 'unofficially' allow trading of game time cards, sold in increments of 30 days unlimited play time, for in game currency, but as time when on and more people tricked by unscrupulous businessmen, it became clear that regulation was required in order to prevent the cut-throat ingame attitude spilling out into real world, real money, scamming.
The current system involves buying a game time card and putting the code with a set price in 'escrow' for another player to purchase with ingame currency.
The player checks his account page and accepts the trade, the game time is added to his account automatically and the seller gets the ingame ISK.
This system is win-win-win for everyone, with no moral issues to contend with (unless someone is so addicted they are using their food money to buy game time cards, of course), CCP gets paid for the game time card, the buyer gets to pay for an MMO by playing more, and the seller gets to bypass boring grinding.
I much prefer this system than the alternative.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28266327</id>
	<title>Re:Bad research</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244565060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Would you believe me if I told you monitoring<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. is part of my job?</p><p>No, we aren't hiring.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would you believe me if I told you monitoring / .
is part of my job ? No , we are n't hiring .
: )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Would you believe me if I told you monitoring /.
is part of my job?No, we aren't hiring.
:)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265317</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264607</id>
	<title>Re:All fun and games until a *rich* guy comes alon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244557620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>In addition to that, according to the Mittani, the Russians had planned to physically cut the power to another player's house during an assault.</p><p>http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/65475</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In addition to that , according to the Mittani , the Russians had planned to physically cut the power to another player 's house during an assault.http : //www.tentonhammer.com/node/65475</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In addition to that, according to the Mittani, the Russians had planned to physically cut the power to another player's house during an assault.http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/65475</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263153</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262843</id>
	<title>Re:boring rant...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244540400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"The other major problem is that there is no sanctioned way to convert the ISK back into real world dollars."</p><p>This is important. Very important. This is the only reason why EVEs system is something the players are willing to accept. As soon as you could convert ISK into real USD, the whole game would go down the crapper in record time.</p><p>The current EVE system allows the "high end" players to shift the cost of their subscription to a more casual player while paying in ingame assets. There is little incentive to go all-out mad ISK farm as all you can get with ISK (legimately) is game time and the economy is not harmed. It places a soft cap in what you can get by "selling ISK", yet lets people "buy ISK" legimately. Coupled with CCPs self-interest to ban people who deal illegimately (outside the PLEX/GTC system) it truly helps. Every seller (ISK for real money) CCP bans is their competitor as CCP gets the money from the fees used to buy game time. Makes it also easy to justify the enforcement costs.</p><p>In the end, every EVE account subscription is paid to CCP in real money and the ISK just changes hands in-game without anyone profiting from it out-of-game. The only party that truly gains is CCP in the form of additional subscriptions - mostly high end players subscribing to multiple accounts simply because they can shift the cost to someone else by paying the subscriptions with ingame assets that the high end players can accumulate faster. Free market also keeps everything in check - if too many people want to buy ISK with time, the ISK value of 30 days of gametime plummets. If too many people want to pay their game time with ISK, the ISK value of game time goes up. Recently the ISK value of game time has been going up.</p><p>It truly is the most ingenous way of tackling the problem of RMT I've seen so far. Different from every other system in subtle yet important ways that tie directly to the EVE model where PvP is everywhere and every ship you lose really hurts your bottom line. It truly is the only MMO with a real, working in-game economic system at the moment. The rest are usually inflationary (see: World of Warcraft, even if they have kept the system somewhat sane, there is way too much excess gold floating there)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" The other major problem is that there is no sanctioned way to convert the ISK back into real world dollars .
" This is important .
Very important .
This is the only reason why EVEs system is something the players are willing to accept .
As soon as you could convert ISK into real USD , the whole game would go down the crapper in record time.The current EVE system allows the " high end " players to shift the cost of their subscription to a more casual player while paying in ingame assets .
There is little incentive to go all-out mad ISK farm as all you can get with ISK ( legimately ) is game time and the economy is not harmed .
It places a soft cap in what you can get by " selling ISK " , yet lets people " buy ISK " legimately .
Coupled with CCPs self-interest to ban people who deal illegimately ( outside the PLEX/GTC system ) it truly helps .
Every seller ( ISK for real money ) CCP bans is their competitor as CCP gets the money from the fees used to buy game time .
Makes it also easy to justify the enforcement costs.In the end , every EVE account subscription is paid to CCP in real money and the ISK just changes hands in-game without anyone profiting from it out-of-game .
The only party that truly gains is CCP in the form of additional subscriptions - mostly high end players subscribing to multiple accounts simply because they can shift the cost to someone else by paying the subscriptions with ingame assets that the high end players can accumulate faster .
Free market also keeps everything in check - if too many people want to buy ISK with time , the ISK value of 30 days of gametime plummets .
If too many people want to pay their game time with ISK , the ISK value of game time goes up .
Recently the ISK value of game time has been going up.It truly is the most ingenous way of tackling the problem of RMT I 've seen so far .
Different from every other system in subtle yet important ways that tie directly to the EVE model where PvP is everywhere and every ship you lose really hurts your bottom line .
It truly is the only MMO with a real , working in-game economic system at the moment .
The rest are usually inflationary ( see : World of Warcraft , even if they have kept the system somewhat sane , there is way too much excess gold floating there )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"The other major problem is that there is no sanctioned way to convert the ISK back into real world dollars.
"This is important.
Very important.
This is the only reason why EVEs system is something the players are willing to accept.
As soon as you could convert ISK into real USD, the whole game would go down the crapper in record time.The current EVE system allows the "high end" players to shift the cost of their subscription to a more casual player while paying in ingame assets.
There is little incentive to go all-out mad ISK farm as all you can get with ISK (legimately) is game time and the economy is not harmed.
It places a soft cap in what you can get by "selling ISK", yet lets people "buy ISK" legimately.
Coupled with CCPs self-interest to ban people who deal illegimately (outside the PLEX/GTC system) it truly helps.
Every seller (ISK for real money) CCP bans is their competitor as CCP gets the money from the fees used to buy game time.
Makes it also easy to justify the enforcement costs.In the end, every EVE account subscription is paid to CCP in real money and the ISK just changes hands in-game without anyone profiting from it out-of-game.
The only party that truly gains is CCP in the form of additional subscriptions - mostly high end players subscribing to multiple accounts simply because they can shift the cost to someone else by paying the subscriptions with ingame assets that the high end players can accumulate faster.
Free market also keeps everything in check - if too many people want to buy ISK with time, the ISK value of 30 days of gametime plummets.
If too many people want to pay their game time with ISK, the ISK value of game time goes up.
Recently the ISK value of game time has been going up.It truly is the most ingenous way of tackling the problem of RMT I've seen so far.
Different from every other system in subtle yet important ways that tie directly to the EVE model where PvP is everywhere and every ship you lose really hurts your bottom line.
It truly is the only MMO with a real, working in-game economic system at the moment.
The rest are usually inflationary (see: World of Warcraft, even if they have kept the system somewhat sane, there is way too much excess gold floating there)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262727</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28272101</id>
	<title>What's an RMT?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244544240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It'd be rather nice if someone said what RMT was!</p><p>(I thought it was the in-game currency.  Oddly enough, it's actually "Real Money Trading".)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 'd be rather nice if someone said what RMT was !
( I thought it was the in-game currency .
Oddly enough , it 's actually " Real Money Trading " .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It'd be rather nice if someone said what RMT was!
(I thought it was the in-game currency.
Oddly enough, it's actually "Real Money Trading".
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28273505</id>
	<title>Re:All fun and games until a *rich* guy comes alon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244553540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>If they guy really did list all 1,000 cards at once, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the last few dozen sold for barely 10\% the amount the first few sold for.</p></div><p>I doubt it. There's always more demand for GTCs/PLEXs than there are sellers, and with the current economic problem in the real world, there's a lot more people with less cash and more time on their hands than before. Paying for game time in ISK is about 50\% more expensive than it was a year ago.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If they guy really did list all 1,000 cards at once , I would n't be surprised to find that the last few dozen sold for barely 10 \ % the amount the first few sold for.I doubt it .
There 's always more demand for GTCs/PLEXs than there are sellers , and with the current economic problem in the real world , there 's a lot more people with less cash and more time on their hands than before .
Paying for game time in ISK is about 50 \ % more expensive than it was a year ago .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they guy really did list all 1,000 cards at once, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the last few dozen sold for barely 10\% the amount the first few sold for.I doubt it.
There's always more demand for GTCs/PLEXs than there are sellers, and with the current economic problem in the real world, there's a lot more people with less cash and more time on their hands than before.
Paying for game time in ISK is about 50\% more expensive than it was a year ago.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265427</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265317</id>
	<title>Re:Bad research</title>
	<author>Clover\_Kicker</author>
	<datestamp>1244560860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>As a salaried executive for a Fortune 10 company I simply don't have enough time to earn sufficient in game finds to enjoy the time I do have available.</p> </div><p>But you've got lots of time to post to Slashdot in the middle of the day?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>As a salaried executive for a Fortune 10 company I simply do n't have enough time to earn sufficient in game finds to enjoy the time I do have available .
But you 've got lots of time to post to Slashdot in the middle of the day ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As a salaried executive for a Fortune 10 company I simply don't have enough time to earn sufficient in game finds to enjoy the time I do have available.
But you've got lots of time to post to Slashdot in the middle of the day?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264383</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263061</id>
	<title>Re:Bad research</title>
	<author>Yvanhoe</author>
	<datestamp>1244543100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>The reason behind there not being any easy way to convert ingame currency into real money is that this would open a whole can of
legal worms for CCP. Tax departments, money laundring etc. etc. Not something a games company would want to deal with.</p></div><p>Well it would be about time that one handled this seriously. I'm sure that being the first virtual economy to open to real-world money transactions can be profitable. If everything fails, relocating the servers to a tax haven can be an interesting option...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>The reason behind there not being any easy way to convert ingame currency into real money is that this would open a whole can of legal worms for CCP .
Tax departments , money laundring etc .
etc. Not something a games company would want to deal with.Well it would be about time that one handled this seriously .
I 'm sure that being the first virtual economy to open to real-world money transactions can be profitable .
If everything fails , relocating the servers to a tax haven can be an interesting option.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The reason behind there not being any easy way to convert ingame currency into real money is that this would open a whole can of
legal worms for CCP.
Tax departments, money laundring etc.
etc. Not something a games company would want to deal with.Well it would be about time that one handled this seriously.
I'm sure that being the first virtual economy to open to real-world money transactions can be profitable.
If everything fails, relocating the servers to a tax haven can be an interesting option...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262713</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28277869</id>
	<title>Hurrah Econ</title>
	<author>KefkaZ</author>
	<datestamp>1244639640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I love how optimizing The Market requires the setting aside of Moral and Legal issues.  (In this case, Gold Farming.)  I get that market efficiency is generally a good thing with lower prices, better pay, etc as a result. However, as a member of the "money isn't everything" school of thought, I'd love to see business in general remind themselves that they are human beings first and corporate serfs second.  Yes, it may be hugely profitable, but if its not moral and legal you probably shouldn't be doing it, should you?

(I'm emphasizing moral here, because I'm pretty confidant that major corporations have a vast amount of competent legal advice)</htmltext>
<tokenext>I love how optimizing The Market requires the setting aside of Moral and Legal issues .
( In this case , Gold Farming .
) I get that market efficiency is generally a good thing with lower prices , better pay , etc as a result .
However , as a member of the " money is n't everything " school of thought , I 'd love to see business in general remind themselves that they are human beings first and corporate serfs second .
Yes , it may be hugely profitable , but if its not moral and legal you probably should n't be doing it , should you ?
( I 'm emphasizing moral here , because I 'm pretty confidant that major corporations have a vast amount of competent legal advice )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I love how optimizing The Market requires the setting aside of Moral and Legal issues.
(In this case, Gold Farming.
)  I get that market efficiency is generally a good thing with lower prices, better pay, etc as a result.
However, as a member of the "money isn't everything" school of thought, I'd love to see business in general remind themselves that they are human beings first and corporate serfs second.
Yes, it may be hugely profitable, but if its not moral and legal you probably shouldn't be doing it, should you?
(I'm emphasizing moral here, because I'm pretty confidant that major corporations have a vast amount of competent legal advice)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263633</id>
	<title>Re:Things I am glad to be missing out on</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244550480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>there are certainly worse worlds to get hooked on -- drugs, sex, gambling -- more examples of "addictive" and obsessive activities that can lead to some serious life consequences.  </p></div><p>How is sex worse than video games to be addicted to? Which species are you?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>there are certainly worse worlds to get hooked on -- drugs , sex , gambling -- more examples of " addictive " and obsessive activities that can lead to some serious life consequences .
How is sex worse than video games to be addicted to ?
Which species are you ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>there are certainly worse worlds to get hooked on -- drugs, sex, gambling -- more examples of "addictive" and obsessive activities that can lead to some serious life consequences.
How is sex worse than video games to be addicted to?
Which species are you?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262955</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262707</id>
	<title>RMT is great for making money, not for amusement</title>
	<author>saiha</author>
	<datestamp>1244538780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>RMT is essentially unfettered inflation. Its printing money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>RMT is essentially unfettered inflation .
Its printing money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>RMT is essentially unfettered inflation.
Its printing money.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28275583</id>
	<title>Re:boring rant...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244571240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>More importantly, the lack of a mechanism to convert in game currency to real world money legally reduces the likelihood that a government (functioning at or near the average level of retardation for such organisations) will decide they want to tax them.</p><p>Once your in game labour can legitimately be converted into real world currency, then you will have to include your in game earnings on your real world tax return...  not fun.</p><p>The anonymous coward also makes a wise point about the quality of gameplay... still, I'm more happy that I don't have to keep the same detailed real world accounts of my eve corporation as I do of my real world corporation!</p><p>err!<br>jak.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>More importantly , the lack of a mechanism to convert in game currency to real world money legally reduces the likelihood that a government ( functioning at or near the average level of retardation for such organisations ) will decide they want to tax them.Once your in game labour can legitimately be converted into real world currency , then you will have to include your in game earnings on your real world tax return... not fun.The anonymous coward also makes a wise point about the quality of gameplay... still , I 'm more happy that I do n't have to keep the same detailed real world accounts of my eve corporation as I do of my real world corporation ! err ! jak .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>More importantly, the lack of a mechanism to convert in game currency to real world money legally reduces the likelihood that a government (functioning at or near the average level of retardation for such organisations) will decide they want to tax them.Once your in game labour can legitimately be converted into real world currency, then you will have to include your in game earnings on your real world tax return...  not fun.The anonymous coward also makes a wise point about the quality of gameplay... still, I'm more happy that I don't have to keep the same detailed real world accounts of my eve corporation as I do of my real world corporation!err!jak.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262727</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263153</id>
	<title>All fun and games until a *rich* guy comes along</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244544180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sometimes the real life busts in and makes us painfully aware that some people have more, much more disposable income than others.
<br> <br>
EVE Online's RMT system is by and large a brilliant idea. People who are so inclined, can buy virtual wealth for real world money, and people who are good at the game can play for free. The developers benefit either case. The vastness of EVE's playerbase however means it includes some individuals who are far, far ahead of the average on the income curve.
<br> <br>
In the latest "Great War of EVE", a small Russian alliance RED.Overlord (ROL), with connections to virtual money farming industry, grew hostile with their neighbors, the largest player alliance Goonswarm. A certain VERY well off member of ROL then bought at least 500 billion ingame ISK (~$10k+ worth) from the black market to buy its alliancemates five Titan class capital ships (strategic weapons in EVE which take a lot of effort and 2 months of real time to build). CCP got a whiff of the transaction and banned all the titan pilots and their associates.
<br> <br>
Unfettered, ROL's "mysterious benefactor" turned to legal means, and publicly sold 1000 real-money-bought timecards to fund its ingame war effort - a cool $27,000 worth. That is an undeniable fact, with sale threads still visible on EVE's official forums.
<br> <br>
A harder to prove, but with the above in mind not the least unlikely, were his solid real-money-bribes to the leaders of other EVE alliances for help in the war. It's rumored that Evil Thug, the leader of a powerful Against All Authorities alliance, received a cool $30,000 bribe to turn his ingame organization against their former friends at Goonswarm, and there are more reliable information that certain leaders of other neighboring alliances received solid five-figure dollar bribes to either turn coat, or at the minimum stay neutral, in this purely ingame conflict. Perhaps interestingly, not many agreed.
<br> <br>
Real life bribes don't as such have a lot to do with ingame RMT, but that's because the effect of ingame currency only goes so far, and rallying real people one way or the other is the true means to win.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sometimes the real life busts in and makes us painfully aware that some people have more , much more disposable income than others .
EVE Online 's RMT system is by and large a brilliant idea .
People who are so inclined , can buy virtual wealth for real world money , and people who are good at the game can play for free .
The developers benefit either case .
The vastness of EVE 's playerbase however means it includes some individuals who are far , far ahead of the average on the income curve .
In the latest " Great War of EVE " , a small Russian alliance RED.Overlord ( ROL ) , with connections to virtual money farming industry , grew hostile with their neighbors , the largest player alliance Goonswarm .
A certain VERY well off member of ROL then bought at least 500 billion ingame ISK ( ~ $ 10k + worth ) from the black market to buy its alliancemates five Titan class capital ships ( strategic weapons in EVE which take a lot of effort and 2 months of real time to build ) .
CCP got a whiff of the transaction and banned all the titan pilots and their associates .
Unfettered , ROL 's " mysterious benefactor " turned to legal means , and publicly sold 1000 real-money-bought timecards to fund its ingame war effort - a cool $ 27,000 worth .
That is an undeniable fact , with sale threads still visible on EVE 's official forums .
A harder to prove , but with the above in mind not the least unlikely , were his solid real-money-bribes to the leaders of other EVE alliances for help in the war .
It 's rumored that Evil Thug , the leader of a powerful Against All Authorities alliance , received a cool $ 30,000 bribe to turn his ingame organization against their former friends at Goonswarm , and there are more reliable information that certain leaders of other neighboring alliances received solid five-figure dollar bribes to either turn coat , or at the minimum stay neutral , in this purely ingame conflict .
Perhaps interestingly , not many agreed .
Real life bribes do n't as such have a lot to do with ingame RMT , but that 's because the effect of ingame currency only goes so far , and rallying real people one way or the other is the true means to win .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sometimes the real life busts in and makes us painfully aware that some people have more, much more disposable income than others.
EVE Online's RMT system is by and large a brilliant idea.
People who are so inclined, can buy virtual wealth for real world money, and people who are good at the game can play for free.
The developers benefit either case.
The vastness of EVE's playerbase however means it includes some individuals who are far, far ahead of the average on the income curve.
In the latest "Great War of EVE", a small Russian alliance RED.Overlord (ROL), with connections to virtual money farming industry, grew hostile with their neighbors, the largest player alliance Goonswarm.
A certain VERY well off member of ROL then bought at least 500 billion ingame ISK (~$10k+ worth) from the black market to buy its alliancemates five Titan class capital ships (strategic weapons in EVE which take a lot of effort and 2 months of real time to build).
CCP got a whiff of the transaction and banned all the titan pilots and their associates.
Unfettered, ROL's "mysterious benefactor" turned to legal means, and publicly sold 1000 real-money-bought timecards to fund its ingame war effort - a cool $27,000 worth.
That is an undeniable fact, with sale threads still visible on EVE's official forums.
A harder to prove, but with the above in mind not the least unlikely, were his solid real-money-bribes to the leaders of other EVE alliances for help in the war.
It's rumored that Evil Thug, the leader of a powerful Against All Authorities alliance, received a cool $30,000 bribe to turn his ingame organization against their former friends at Goonswarm, and there are more reliable information that certain leaders of other neighboring alliances received solid five-figure dollar bribes to either turn coat, or at the minimum stay neutral, in this purely ingame conflict.
Perhaps interestingly, not many agreed.
Real life bribes don't as such have a lot to do with ingame RMT, but that's because the effect of ingame currency only goes so far, and rallying real people one way or the other is the true means to win.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262751</id>
	<title>Sorta misses the point</title>
	<author>Sobrique</author>
	<datestamp>1244539320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>Well, as a long time EVE player, I remember when trading cash for isks was forbidden by the EULA - and it still is, you can just work around it by selling game time codes for in game cash. <br>
I have to say, the article seems to have missed one of the most effective ways of doing this - PLEXes (Pilot License Extensions) are tradable on the in game market - that's by far the most effective way of trading them these days. Head to Jita, list one for sale, and it'll probably have sold within the week - much less faff than using the forum, which<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... well, fundamentally it's a forum, so not that great for trading - particularly items like GTCs which are functionally identical, with a different price tag - the delay on them means that it's easy enough for buyers to request a bunch of buys off a bunch of different people, and only accept the most favourable.
<br>
I'm still in two minds as to whether it's a good thing or not - I don't like the fact that RL cash can have influence on the game, any more than I'd be happy that a chess player could whip out a credit card and buy an extra queen. <br>
On the other hand, I do like that people on lower incomes can actually play EVE for 'free' (300mil isks/month isn't particularly hard to raise), and I do like the fact that someone with less 'free' time, because of an intensive job, can shortcut the direct 'run missions' or 'mine' to generate isks.
<br>
I think the reason it actually works in EVE, is because of the nature of the game - if you fork out a few billion isks on a really pimp fitted ship, then you'll get a nice ship, sure. If you don't know what you're doing, it'll die shockingly fast. Even if you do know what you're doing, it'll maybe be a match for 2-3 equivalent class ships, but no more. And you'll then provide someone with a juicy killmail, and a nice big pile of loot.
<br>
For PvE usage... yeah, it does skew the economy somewhat, and have some items worth<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... disporportionate prices, as people pimp their shiny toy (if it's good for mission running, the price is inflated to the point where it becomes even less viable to use in PvP). But barring that, the isolationist mission runner doesn't actually have much impact on the rest of the game, so whatever.
<br>
And it serves as a control mechanism on 'actual' RMT - by letting people 'trade' via GTCs, the game developer and thus the game itself benefits. Before that, you still had 'isk sellers', that'd elicit a ban if you got caught. Now<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you have probably more 'small time' isk buyers and sellers, as people finance their account through mission running, but the tradeoff is, because they're doing so via GTCs, it means everyone who 'buys isks' also finance an extra player account, meaning more subscribers.
<br><nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... and more targets.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Well , as a long time EVE player , I remember when trading cash for isks was forbidden by the EULA - and it still is , you can just work around it by selling game time codes for in game cash .
I have to say , the article seems to have missed one of the most effective ways of doing this - PLEXes ( Pilot License Extensions ) are tradable on the in game market - that 's by far the most effective way of trading them these days .
Head to Jita , list one for sale , and it 'll probably have sold within the week - much less faff than using the forum , which ... well , fundamentally it 's a forum , so not that great for trading - particularly items like GTCs which are functionally identical , with a different price tag - the delay on them means that it 's easy enough for buyers to request a bunch of buys off a bunch of different people , and only accept the most favourable .
I 'm still in two minds as to whether it 's a good thing or not - I do n't like the fact that RL cash can have influence on the game , any more than I 'd be happy that a chess player could whip out a credit card and buy an extra queen .
On the other hand , I do like that people on lower incomes can actually play EVE for 'free ' ( 300mil isks/month is n't particularly hard to raise ) , and I do like the fact that someone with less 'free ' time , because of an intensive job , can shortcut the direct 'run missions ' or 'mine ' to generate isks .
I think the reason it actually works in EVE , is because of the nature of the game - if you fork out a few billion isks on a really pimp fitted ship , then you 'll get a nice ship , sure .
If you do n't know what you 're doing , it 'll die shockingly fast .
Even if you do know what you 're doing , it 'll maybe be a match for 2-3 equivalent class ships , but no more .
And you 'll then provide someone with a juicy killmail , and a nice big pile of loot .
For PvE usage... yeah , it does skew the economy somewhat , and have some items worth ... disporportionate prices , as people pimp their shiny toy ( if it 's good for mission running , the price is inflated to the point where it becomes even less viable to use in PvP ) .
But barring that , the isolationist mission runner does n't actually have much impact on the rest of the game , so whatever .
And it serves as a control mechanism on 'actual ' RMT - by letting people 'trade ' via GTCs , the game developer and thus the game itself benefits .
Before that , you still had 'isk sellers ' , that 'd elicit a ban if you got caught .
Now ... you have probably more 'small time ' isk buyers and sellers , as people finance their account through mission running , but the tradeoff is , because they 're doing so via GTCs , it means everyone who 'buys isks ' also finance an extra player account , meaning more subscribers .
.... and more targets .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Well, as a long time EVE player, I remember when trading cash for isks was forbidden by the EULA - and it still is, you can just work around it by selling game time codes for in game cash.
I have to say, the article seems to have missed one of the most effective ways of doing this - PLEXes (Pilot License Extensions) are tradable on the in game market - that's by far the most effective way of trading them these days.
Head to Jita, list one for sale, and it'll probably have sold within the week - much less faff than using the forum, which ... well, fundamentally it's a forum, so not that great for trading - particularly items like GTCs which are functionally identical, with a different price tag - the delay on them means that it's easy enough for buyers to request a bunch of buys off a bunch of different people, and only accept the most favourable.
I'm still in two minds as to whether it's a good thing or not - I don't like the fact that RL cash can have influence on the game, any more than I'd be happy that a chess player could whip out a credit card and buy an extra queen.
On the other hand, I do like that people on lower incomes can actually play EVE for 'free' (300mil isks/month isn't particularly hard to raise), and I do like the fact that someone with less 'free' time, because of an intensive job, can shortcut the direct 'run missions' or 'mine' to generate isks.
I think the reason it actually works in EVE, is because of the nature of the game - if you fork out a few billion isks on a really pimp fitted ship, then you'll get a nice ship, sure.
If you don't know what you're doing, it'll die shockingly fast.
Even if you do know what you're doing, it'll maybe be a match for 2-3 equivalent class ships, but no more.
And you'll then provide someone with a juicy killmail, and a nice big pile of loot.
For PvE usage... yeah, it does skew the economy somewhat, and have some items worth ... disporportionate prices, as people pimp their shiny toy (if it's good for mission running, the price is inflated to the point where it becomes even less viable to use in PvP).
But barring that, the isolationist mission runner doesn't actually have much impact on the rest of the game, so whatever.
And it serves as a control mechanism on 'actual' RMT - by letting people 'trade' via GTCs, the game developer and thus the game itself benefits.
Before that, you still had 'isk sellers', that'd elicit a ban if you got caught.
Now ... you have probably more 'small time' isk buyers and sellers, as people finance their account through mission running, but the tradeoff is, because they're doing so via GTCs, it means everyone who 'buys isks' also finance an extra player account, meaning more subscribers.
.... and more targets.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265427</id>
	<title>Re:All fun and games until a *rich* guy comes alon</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244561280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Unfettered, ROL's "mysterious benefactor" turned to legal means, and publicly sold 1000 real-money-bought timecards to fund its ingame war effort - a cool $27,000 worth. That is an undeniable fact, with sale threads still visible on EVE's official forums.</p> </div><p>It sounds to me though like that's not nearly as big a problem as outright buying in-game funds for real money. Because you can only sell so many GTC for in-game money before the value starts to drop - unless you spread the sales out over a longer period of time. Either way you can't buy nearly as large a sum of in-game money instantly like you could if you could buy it directly with real money. If they guy really did list all 1,000 cards at once, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the last few dozen sold for barely 10\% the amount the first few sold for.</p><p>No matter how it works out, it ends up being a win-win.</p><p>I think all MMOs should put in a system like that.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Unfettered , ROL 's " mysterious benefactor " turned to legal means , and publicly sold 1000 real-money-bought timecards to fund its ingame war effort - a cool $ 27,000 worth .
That is an undeniable fact , with sale threads still visible on EVE 's official forums .
It sounds to me though like that 's not nearly as big a problem as outright buying in-game funds for real money .
Because you can only sell so many GTC for in-game money before the value starts to drop - unless you spread the sales out over a longer period of time .
Either way you ca n't buy nearly as large a sum of in-game money instantly like you could if you could buy it directly with real money .
If they guy really did list all 1,000 cards at once , I would n't be surprised to find that the last few dozen sold for barely 10 \ % the amount the first few sold for.No matter how it works out , it ends up being a win-win.I think all MMOs should put in a system like that .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Unfettered, ROL's "mysterious benefactor" turned to legal means, and publicly sold 1000 real-money-bought timecards to fund its ingame war effort - a cool $27,000 worth.
That is an undeniable fact, with sale threads still visible on EVE's official forums.
It sounds to me though like that's not nearly as big a problem as outright buying in-game funds for real money.
Because you can only sell so many GTC for in-game money before the value starts to drop - unless you spread the sales out over a longer period of time.
Either way you can't buy nearly as large a sum of in-game money instantly like you could if you could buy it directly with real money.
If they guy really did list all 1,000 cards at once, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the last few dozen sold for barely 10\% the amount the first few sold for.No matter how it works out, it ends up being a win-win.I think all MMOs should put in a system like that.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263153</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28344917</id>
	<title>HA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1245094260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>i'll be a coward, but you obviously played the game for a grand total of 2 seconds if you think that the GTC system for Trading and buying doesn't work, so your EVE game Report is False.<br>The Market thrives.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>i 'll be a coward , but you obviously played the game for a grand total of 2 seconds if you think that the GTC system for Trading and buying does n't work , so your EVE game Report is False.The Market thrives .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i'll be a coward, but you obviously played the game for a grand total of 2 seconds if you think that the GTC system for Trading and buying doesn't work, so your EVE game Report is False.The Market thrives.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262713</id>
	<title>Bad research</title>
	<author>Ogun</author>
	<datestamp>1244538840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>The writer has not done his research well enough.<br><br>There are two ways of selling game time in EVE.<br>One is to use the forum and the game time code transfer system available on the character screen, which is what the writer did.<br>The other is to convert the GTC into ingame items called PLEX (Pilot License EXtension) which is then traded on the market like<br>any other ingame item. This is not only the preferred way, it is also more profitable to the seller; netting around 720 million<br>ISK per GTC compared to about 600 million on the forums.<br><br>The other thing is that while you could certainly buy ISK from farming operations it comes with a risk. CCP has been known to ban<br>not only ISK sellers but also buyers in transactions not using the condoned methods.<br><br>The reason behind there not being any easy way to convert ingame currency into real money is that this would open a whole can of<br>legal worms for CCP. Tax departments, money laundring etc. etc. Not something a games company would want to deal with.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The writer has not done his research well enough.There are two ways of selling game time in EVE.One is to use the forum and the game time code transfer system available on the character screen , which is what the writer did.The other is to convert the GTC into ingame items called PLEX ( Pilot License EXtension ) which is then traded on the market likeany other ingame item .
This is not only the preferred way , it is also more profitable to the seller ; netting around 720 millionISK per GTC compared to about 600 million on the forums.The other thing is that while you could certainly buy ISK from farming operations it comes with a risk .
CCP has been known to bannot only ISK sellers but also buyers in transactions not using the condoned methods.The reason behind there not being any easy way to convert ingame currency into real money is that this would open a whole can oflegal worms for CCP .
Tax departments , money laundring etc .
etc. Not something a games company would want to deal with .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The writer has not done his research well enough.There are two ways of selling game time in EVE.One is to use the forum and the game time code transfer system available on the character screen, which is what the writer did.The other is to convert the GTC into ingame items called PLEX (Pilot License EXtension) which is then traded on the market likeany other ingame item.
This is not only the preferred way, it is also more profitable to the seller; netting around 720 millionISK per GTC compared to about 600 million on the forums.The other thing is that while you could certainly buy ISK from farming operations it comes with a risk.
CCP has been known to bannot only ISK sellers but also buyers in transactions not using the condoned methods.The reason behind there not being any easy way to convert ingame currency into real money is that this would open a whole can oflegal worms for CCP.
Tax departments, money laundring etc.
etc. Not something a games company would want to deal with.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263435</id>
	<title>Re:Things I am glad to be missing out on</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244547900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Dunno whether you saw it, but about a week or so ago there was a link here to a story about how such games are designed to be addictive.  Might interest you.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Dunno whether you saw it , but about a week or so ago there was a link here to a story about how such games are designed to be addictive .
Might interest you .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Dunno whether you saw it, but about a week or so ago there was a link here to a story about how such games are designed to be addictive.
Might interest you.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262955</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262727</id>
	<title>boring rant...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244538960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>ISK sellers, however, provide much better exchange rates: one site sells at 25 million ISK per dollar, or better in bulk. Why would players want to wait for their time cards to be shipped (not to mention the international service fees charged by the bank due to CCP being an Icelandic company), and then be hit with a sub-premium exchange rate. For 35 bucks I can get 600 million ISK with a time card, or for 27 bucks I can get 1 billion ISK from a reseller. <b>Of course, there are some sanctioned time card sellers that cut out the shipping process for a faster deal</b>, but that doesn&#226;(TM)t mitigate the entire problem.</p></div><p>So, your argument is moot.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The other major problem is that there is no sanctioned way to convert the ISK back into real world dollars.</p> </div><p>Most would argue that this is the exact mechanism which keeps the gold farmers out of the system, and maintains the stability of the economy.  With no way to profit in the real world, there is no incentive for farmers to set up shop.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>ISK sellers , however , provide much better exchange rates : one site sells at 25 million ISK per dollar , or better in bulk .
Why would players want to wait for their time cards to be shipped ( not to mention the international service fees charged by the bank due to CCP being an Icelandic company ) , and then be hit with a sub-premium exchange rate .
For 35 bucks I can get 600 million ISK with a time card , or for 27 bucks I can get 1 billion ISK from a reseller .
Of course , there are some sanctioned time card sellers that cut out the shipping process for a faster deal , but that doesn   ( TM ) t mitigate the entire problem.So , your argument is moot.The other major problem is that there is no sanctioned way to convert the ISK back into real world dollars .
Most would argue that this is the exact mechanism which keeps the gold farmers out of the system , and maintains the stability of the economy .
With no way to profit in the real world , there is no incentive for farmers to set up shop .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ISK sellers, however, provide much better exchange rates: one site sells at 25 million ISK per dollar, or better in bulk.
Why would players want to wait for their time cards to be shipped (not to mention the international service fees charged by the bank due to CCP being an Icelandic company), and then be hit with a sub-premium exchange rate.
For 35 bucks I can get 600 million ISK with a time card, or for 27 bucks I can get 1 billion ISK from a reseller.
Of course, there are some sanctioned time card sellers that cut out the shipping process for a faster deal, but that doesnâ(TM)t mitigate the entire problem.So, your argument is moot.The other major problem is that there is no sanctioned way to convert the ISK back into real world dollars.
Most would argue that this is the exact mechanism which keeps the gold farmers out of the system, and maintains the stability of the economy.
With no way to profit in the real world, there is no incentive for farmers to set up shop.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263607</id>
	<title>EVE *wants* it this way!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244550000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><tt>Why would CCP ever facilitate this guy's rmt wet dream?<br><br>Why would the EVE developers want you to be able get real dollars for your ISK?<br><br>They're not running a business to make *you* money.&nbsp; &nbsp;They rather have the real dollars going into their own pockets selling GTCs, and happily let the abandoned accounts with billions of ISK rot away in the bit bucket.<br><br>DUH!</tt></htmltext>
<tokenext>Why would CCP ever facilitate this guy 's rmt wet dream ? Why would the EVE developers want you to be able get real dollars for your ISK ? They 're not running a business to make * you * money.     They rather have the real dollars going into their own pockets selling GTCs , and happily let the abandoned accounts with billions of ISK rot away in the bit bucket.DUH !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Why would CCP ever facilitate this guy's rmt wet dream?Why would the EVE developers want you to be able get real dollars for your ISK?They're not running a business to make *you* money.   They rather have the real dollars going into their own pockets selling GTCs, and happily let the abandoned accounts with billions of ISK rot away in the bit bucket.DUH!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264383</id>
	<title>Re:Bad research</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244556600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>CCP didn't ban me (or even lecture) but they did take all of ISK I bought away which left me with a negative in game balance since I had spent already spent a good portion of the ISK I purchased from a farmer. With a negative balance you can't undock to make the ISK to return you to positive. Solution? GTC transfer through the authorized system.</p><p>As a salaried executive for a Fortune 10 company I simply don't have enough time to earn sufficient in game finds to enjoy the time I do have available. CCP's official GTC transfer addresses this for me and is one of the reasons I keep playing.</p><p>IMO Blizzard has ruined WoW not by not setting up something official when they are impotent to stop the Chinese gold farmers, yet are heavy handed with players seeking a small boost to reduce the amount of painful grinding required to level to 80.</p><p>Their "You are under investigation" emails may scare younger folks with it's implied threats but I see it for what it is, jack booted thuggery.</p><p>Blizzard can kiss my hairy butt.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>CCP did n't ban me ( or even lecture ) but they did take all of ISK I bought away which left me with a negative in game balance since I had spent already spent a good portion of the ISK I purchased from a farmer .
With a negative balance you ca n't undock to make the ISK to return you to positive .
Solution ? GTC transfer through the authorized system.As a salaried executive for a Fortune 10 company I simply do n't have enough time to earn sufficient in game finds to enjoy the time I do have available .
CCP 's official GTC transfer addresses this for me and is one of the reasons I keep playing.IMO Blizzard has ruined WoW not by not setting up something official when they are impotent to stop the Chinese gold farmers , yet are heavy handed with players seeking a small boost to reduce the amount of painful grinding required to level to 80.Their " You are under investigation " emails may scare younger folks with it 's implied threats but I see it for what it is , jack booted thuggery.Blizzard can kiss my hairy butt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>CCP didn't ban me (or even lecture) but they did take all of ISK I bought away which left me with a negative in game balance since I had spent already spent a good portion of the ISK I purchased from a farmer.
With a negative balance you can't undock to make the ISK to return you to positive.
Solution? GTC transfer through the authorized system.As a salaried executive for a Fortune 10 company I simply don't have enough time to earn sufficient in game finds to enjoy the time I do have available.
CCP's official GTC transfer addresses this for me and is one of the reasons I keep playing.IMO Blizzard has ruined WoW not by not setting up something official when they are impotent to stop the Chinese gold farmers, yet are heavy handed with players seeking a small boost to reduce the amount of painful grinding required to level to 80.Their "You are under investigation" emails may scare younger folks with it's implied threats but I see it for what it is, jack booted thuggery.Blizzard can kiss my hairy butt.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262713</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262805</id>
	<title>Re:Sorta misses the point</title>
	<author>Jedi Alec</author>
	<datestamp>1244539920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So far I have yet to encounter a single pilot in combat who by converting rl money into ingame assets managed to actually get a real advantage. People who aren't smart enough to figure out how to earn isk the "proper" way very rarely are able to then put said isk to good use anyway.</p><p>Now I'll happily admit to flying some reasonably pimped out stuff myself, but I bought that stuff using isk I made ingame...doing mostly PvP to begin with.</p><p>Flying a faction/deadspace fitted nightmare is fun. Flying one in the knowledge that half the mods on it came from people you blew up yourself is so much more satisfying<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So far I have yet to encounter a single pilot in combat who by converting rl money into ingame assets managed to actually get a real advantage .
People who are n't smart enough to figure out how to earn isk the " proper " way very rarely are able to then put said isk to good use anyway.Now I 'll happily admit to flying some reasonably pimped out stuff myself , but I bought that stuff using isk I made ingame...doing mostly PvP to begin with.Flying a faction/deadspace fitted nightmare is fun .
Flying one in the knowledge that half the mods on it came from people you blew up yourself is so much more satisfying ; - )</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So far I have yet to encounter a single pilot in combat who by converting rl money into ingame assets managed to actually get a real advantage.
People who aren't smart enough to figure out how to earn isk the "proper" way very rarely are able to then put said isk to good use anyway.Now I'll happily admit to flying some reasonably pimped out stuff myself, but I bought that stuff using isk I made ingame...doing mostly PvP to begin with.Flying a faction/deadspace fitted nightmare is fun.
Flying one in the knowledge that half the mods on it came from people you blew up yourself is so much more satisfying ;-)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262751</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263061
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262713
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_11</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263435
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262955
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_10</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262843
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262727
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264607
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263153
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264019
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263049
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262955
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262805
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262751
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28275583
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262727
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28266327
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265317
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264383
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262713
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28268789
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262759
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262707
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28273505
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265427
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263153
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28290559
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265427
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263153
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264063
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262713
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_09_0648204_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263633
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262955
</commentlist>
</thread>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_0648204.7</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262749
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_0648204.0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265157
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_0648204.4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263607
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_0648204.2</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262751
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262805
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_0648204.5</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262955
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263049
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264019
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263435
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263633
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_0648204.3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263153
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264607
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265427
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28290559
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28273505
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_0648204.1</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262713
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264063
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28264383
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28265317
---http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28266327
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28263061
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_0648204.8</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262727
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28275583
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262843
</commentlist>
</conversation>
<conversation>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#conversation09_06_09_0648204.6</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262707
-http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28262759
--http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_09_0648204.28268789
</commentlist>
</conversation>
