<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_08_053230</id>
	<title>Chinese Government To Mandate PC Censorware</title>
	<author>timothy</author>
	<datestamp>1244463180000</datestamp>
	<htmltext>An anonymous reader writes <i>"The Chinese government has sponsored the development of a censorware package called 'Green Dam Youth Escort'; basically a PC-resident IP blocker that gets regular updates of banned sites from a central government site. There are <a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25603145-36375,00.html">now plans afoot to mandate that all new PCs sold in China be shipped with this software</a>. The rationale behind this is to 'stop the poisoning of children's minds.'"</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>An anonymous reader writes " The Chinese government has sponsored the development of a censorware package called 'Green Dam Youth Escort ' ; basically a PC-resident IP blocker that gets regular updates of banned sites from a central government site .
There are now plans afoot to mandate that all new PCs sold in China be shipped with this software .
The rationale behind this is to 'stop the poisoning of children 's minds .
' "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>An anonymous reader writes "The Chinese government has sponsored the development of a censorware package called 'Green Dam Youth Escort'; basically a PC-resident IP blocker that gets regular updates of banned sites from a central government site.
There are now plans afoot to mandate that all new PCs sold in China be shipped with this software.
The rationale behind this is to 'stop the poisoning of children's minds.
'"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28287967</id>
	<title>Of course, Chinese dissenters go to jail-</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244643300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Those who comment that the Chinese people don't want freedom should reflect that if they say anything else, they will be thrown into jail and beaten daily, their families will be hounded, and they can never get a job again.  It would be appropriate to give those who are apologists for the Chinese Communist dictatorship the same treatment - and perfectly fair and reasonable, per their views, as well.</p><p>Wouldn't it be really great if some hackers used the back door in the Green Dam software to load the new book" Prisoner of the State: The Secret Journal of Premier Zhao Ziyang " into every Chinese computer that has the Green Dam software, and Charter 08?  Free Tibet, and China too!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Those who comment that the Chinese people do n't want freedom should reflect that if they say anything else , they will be thrown into jail and beaten daily , their families will be hounded , and they can never get a job again .
It would be appropriate to give those who are apologists for the Chinese Communist dictatorship the same treatment - and perfectly fair and reasonable , per their views , as well.Would n't it be really great if some hackers used the back door in the Green Dam software to load the new book " Prisoner of the State : The Secret Journal of Premier Zhao Ziyang " into every Chinese computer that has the Green Dam software , and Charter 08 ?
Free Tibet , and China too !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Those who comment that the Chinese people don't want freedom should reflect that if they say anything else, they will be thrown into jail and beaten daily, their families will be hounded, and they can never get a job again.
It would be appropriate to give those who are apologists for the Chinese Communist dictatorship the same treatment - and perfectly fair and reasonable, per their views, as well.Wouldn't it be really great if some hackers used the back door in the Green Dam software to load the new book" Prisoner of the State: The Secret Journal of Premier Zhao Ziyang " into every Chinese computer that has the Green Dam software, and Charter 08?
Free Tibet, and China too!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519</id>
	<title>Can't be expected to change much</title>
	<author>CRCulver</author>
	<datestamp>1244467140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I imagine things will stay pretty much the same as they always have, even if the censorship is moving from the Great Firewall of China to the PC. Before, if you were an expat or a clued-up local, you would just install Tor on your PC. Now you would just wipe the hard drive and install your OS of choice from a trustworthy CD. The Chinese government can be happy that the vast majority of people will not seek to get around the blocks, and the intelligentsia will find it easy to get the information they want. It seems like a win for both sides.</p><p>I would caution, however, against vilifying China too much in this regard. Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos. Often the very Chinese you think would be rebelling against measures like this--people who read foreign news and travel or even reside abroad--think it necessary for the health of their country. Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I imagine things will stay pretty much the same as they always have , even if the censorship is moving from the Great Firewall of China to the PC .
Before , if you were an expat or a clued-up local , you would just install Tor on your PC .
Now you would just wipe the hard drive and install your OS of choice from a trustworthy CD .
The Chinese government can be happy that the vast majority of people will not seek to get around the blocks , and the intelligentsia will find it easy to get the information they want .
It seems like a win for both sides.I would caution , however , against vilifying China too much in this regard .
Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos .
Often the very Chinese you think would be rebelling against measures like this--people who read foreign news and travel or even reside abroad--think it necessary for the health of their country .
Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I imagine things will stay pretty much the same as they always have, even if the censorship is moving from the Great Firewall of China to the PC.
Before, if you were an expat or a clued-up local, you would just install Tor on your PC.
Now you would just wipe the hard drive and install your OS of choice from a trustworthy CD.
The Chinese government can be happy that the vast majority of people will not seek to get around the blocks, and the intelligentsia will find it easy to get the information they want.
It seems like a win for both sides.I would caution, however, against vilifying China too much in this regard.
Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos.
Often the very Chinese you think would be rebelling against measures like this--people who read foreign news and travel or even reside abroad--think it necessary for the health of their country.
Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28259071</id>
	<title>Why do this?</title>
	<author>jonwil</author>
	<datestamp>1244467020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If they really want to block these sites, cant they just add some more firewall rules to the great firewall of china like they do for all the other "subversive" sites?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If they really want to block these sites , cant they just add some more firewall rules to the great firewall of china like they do for all the other " subversive " sites ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If they really want to block these sites, cant they just add some more firewall rules to the great firewall of china like they do for all the other "subversive" sites?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28264327</id>
	<title>Eyes Wired Shut</title>
	<author>akayani</author>
	<datestamp>1244556240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>And the very first thing China will block is the word 'democracy' they wouldn't want to poison any minds with that word or what it links to. Pornography is the excuse for censorship, it is not the reason to implement it.</htmltext>
<tokenext>And the very first thing China will block is the word 'democracy ' they would n't want to poison any minds with that word or what it links to .
Pornography is the excuse for censorship , it is not the reason to implement it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And the very first thing China will block is the word 'democracy' they wouldn't want to poison any minds with that word or what it links to.
Pornography is the excuse for censorship, it is not the reason to implement it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250567</id>
	<title>Re:Nanny State Cat Accepts Nanny State</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244473740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You said;</p><p><div class="quote"><p>It seems that there are ways around this for both the producers and consumers and that this is just the trend of China being Nanny State China.</p></div><p>This is a very <b>major</b> problem. I don't know why you used the word <i>just</i>. This is a very disturbing <i>trend</i> that started with the Great Firewall of China.</p><p>It's sad and pathetic that foreign governments don't mind this censorship as long as it coincides with their own politically correct tastes:</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...says a foreign industry official familiar with the plan. "I don't think anyone would oppose the (government's) stated objective" of blocking pornographic and violent content, "but people are really concerned about the way it's being implemented," he said.</p></div><p>Like the article you posted earlier on "rape-ware" games, it appears that people are more than willing to censor if there are scape-goat exceptions in the witch-hunting memes of their censorship. Of course all of these political organizations (like The Ethics Organization of Computer Software) are unethical. It will always be easy to spot morally dubious political groups,  because their calling card will be children, and their bandwagon will be the Moral Majority.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>You said ; It seems that there are ways around this for both the producers and consumers and that this is just the trend of China being Nanny State China.This is a very major problem .
I do n't know why you used the word just .
This is a very disturbing trend that started with the Great Firewall of China.It 's sad and pathetic that foreign governments do n't mind this censorship as long as it coincides with their own politically correct tastes : ...says a foreign industry official familiar with the plan .
" I do n't think anyone would oppose the ( government 's ) stated objective " of blocking pornographic and violent content , " but people are really concerned about the way it 's being implemented , " he said.Like the article you posted earlier on " rape-ware " games , it appears that people are more than willing to censor if there are scape-goat exceptions in the witch-hunting memes of their censorship .
Of course all of these political organizations ( like The Ethics Organization of Computer Software ) are unethical .
It will always be easy to spot morally dubious political groups , because their calling card will be children , and their bandwagon will be the Moral Majority .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You said;It seems that there are ways around this for both the producers and consumers and that this is just the trend of China being Nanny State China.This is a very major problem.
I don't know why you used the word just.
This is a very disturbing trend that started with the Great Firewall of China.It's sad and pathetic that foreign governments don't mind this censorship as long as it coincides with their own politically correct tastes: ...says a foreign industry official familiar with the plan.
"I don't think anyone would oppose the (government's) stated objective" of blocking pornographic and violent content, "but people are really concerned about the way it's being implemented," he said.Like the article you posted earlier on "rape-ware" games, it appears that people are more than willing to censor if there are scape-goat exceptions in the witch-hunting memes of their censorship.
Of course all of these political organizations (like The Ethics Organization of Computer Software) are unethical.
It will always be easy to spot morally dubious political groups,  because their calling card will be children, and their bandwagon will be the Moral Majority.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249491</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250215</id>
	<title>Same thing here in USA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244471940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>What about local and state governments right here in the USA that have required the same thing on computers used by "the children" ("Think of the children!")?  How about even attempts by federal legislators to do the same thing?

People who spout off the typical "those horrible Chinese!" lines usually neglect to see the very similar tactics used right here in the good ol' USA.  And the US media typically fails to report what happens here, but readily paints a negative picture of life in China.</htmltext>
<tokenext>What about local and state governments right here in the USA that have required the same thing on computers used by " the children " ( " Think of the children ! " ) ?
How about even attempts by federal legislators to do the same thing ?
People who spout off the typical " those horrible Chinese !
" lines usually neglect to see the very similar tactics used right here in the good ol ' USA .
And the US media typically fails to report what happens here , but readily paints a negative picture of life in China .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What about local and state governments right here in the USA that have required the same thing on computers used by "the children" ("Think of the children!")?
How about even attempts by federal legislators to do the same thing?
People who spout off the typical "those horrible Chinese!
" lines usually neglect to see the very similar tactics used right here in the good ol' USA.
And the US media typically fails to report what happens here, but readily paints a negative picture of life in China.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28252791</id>
	<title>Yeah, sure, good luck with that, China..</title>
	<author>kheldan</author>
	<datestamp>1244484240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>..because net-nanny software is ALWAYS so damned successful at what it does, and there's absolutely NO way to circumvent it or uninstall it, right? I'll just be over here, laughing my ass off while China learns the hard way what the rest of the world already knows: <i>it doesn't work</i>.</htmltext>
<tokenext>..because net-nanny software is ALWAYS so damned successful at what it does , and there 's absolutely NO way to circumvent it or uninstall it , right ?
I 'll just be over here , laughing my ass off while China learns the hard way what the rest of the world already knows : it does n't work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>..because net-nanny software is ALWAYS so damned successful at what it does, and there's absolutely NO way to circumvent it or uninstall it, right?
I'll just be over here, laughing my ass off while China learns the hard way what the rest of the world already knows: it doesn't work.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251305</id>
	<title>Re:Doesn't quite work like that</title>
	<author>KudyardRipling</author>
	<datestamp>1244477400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>China attempts to force the US to adopt unconstitutional laws, threatening economic attack, the US responds in kind with an economic attack...They might stop buying as much, or buying any, if they feel it doesn't make economic sense, but trying to use it to threaten political change would be a really bad idea. They could easily find themselves with a bunch of worthless paper on their hands.</p></div><p>Perhaps it is high time to consider every <b>take out establishment</b> as a front for PRC interests. I guess we'll all starve then...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>China attempts to force the US to adopt unconstitutional laws , threatening economic attack , the US responds in kind with an economic attack...They might stop buying as much , or buying any , if they feel it does n't make economic sense , but trying to use it to threaten political change would be a really bad idea .
They could easily find themselves with a bunch of worthless paper on their hands.Perhaps it is high time to consider every take out establishment as a front for PRC interests .
I guess we 'll all starve then.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>China attempts to force the US to adopt unconstitutional laws, threatening economic attack, the US responds in kind with an economic attack...They might stop buying as much, or buying any, if they feel it doesn't make economic sense, but trying to use it to threaten political change would be a really bad idea.
They could easily find themselves with a bunch of worthless paper on their hands.Perhaps it is high time to consider every take out establishment as a front for PRC interests.
I guess we'll all starve then...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250181</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249515</id>
	<title>I'm not sure if I'm cynical...</title>
	<author>Engeekneer</author>
	<datestamp>1244467140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>..but I kind of expect this from the Chinese government already. I also doubt it stops at blocking IP addesses. It'll be interesting to hear what people really find the sofware doing.</htmltext>
<tokenext>..but I kind of expect this from the Chinese government already .
I also doubt it stops at blocking IP addesses .
It 'll be interesting to hear what people really find the sofware doing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>..but I kind of expect this from the Chinese government already.
I also doubt it stops at blocking IP addesses.
It'll be interesting to hear what people really find the sofware doing.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249737</id>
	<title>Re:Kind of disturbing...</title>
	<author>patro</author>
	<datestamp>1244469060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are, or they won't let us borrow anymore money?</p><p>A slippery slope, indeed.</p></div><p>If they don't let the US borrow more money then the US won't be able to pay interest for the existing debts, so that's a double edged sword.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are , or they wo n't let us borrow anymore money ? A slippery slope , indeed.If they do n't let the US borrow more money then the US wo n't be able to pay interest for the existing debts , so that 's a double edged sword .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are, or they won't let us borrow anymore money?A slippery slope, indeed.If they don't let the US borrow more money then the US won't be able to pay interest for the existing debts, so that's a double edged sword.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249623</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249955</id>
	<title>AS IF!!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244470200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in China. This will not happen.</p><p>The very idea that you must even sell each computer with said software on it is a non-starter. The rule of law here is very thin; if you don't annoy the govt. you can pretty much do what you like.</p><p>I bought a computer today from the flea market that is Harbin's main computer store (the infamous downstairs section, for those of you living here). This is a zero-regulated place where the very idea of mandating computer software is laughable.</p><p>It's like a few weeks ago when there was an article about mandating Red Flag Linux in cybercafes. This place is very capitalist and such measures simply won't even be enacted, let alone enforced.</p><p>Even the Chinese government know this. From TFA:</p><p>"The software must either be preinstalled on the hard drive or enclosed on a compact disc"</p><p>So at the very best, it'll be a CD thrown away when new machines are purchased.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in China .
This will not happen.The very idea that you must even sell each computer with said software on it is a non-starter .
The rule of law here is very thin ; if you do n't annoy the govt .
you can pretty much do what you like.I bought a computer today from the flea market that is Harbin 's main computer store ( the infamous downstairs section , for those of you living here ) .
This is a zero-regulated place where the very idea of mandating computer software is laughable.It 's like a few weeks ago when there was an article about mandating Red Flag Linux in cybercafes .
This place is very capitalist and such measures simply wo n't even be enacted , let alone enforced.Even the Chinese government know this .
From TFA : " The software must either be preinstalled on the hard drive or enclosed on a compact disc " So at the very best , it 'll be a CD thrown away when new machines are purchased .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in China.
This will not happen.The very idea that you must even sell each computer with said software on it is a non-starter.
The rule of law here is very thin; if you don't annoy the govt.
you can pretty much do what you like.I bought a computer today from the flea market that is Harbin's main computer store (the infamous downstairs section, for those of you living here).
This is a zero-regulated place where the very idea of mandating computer software is laughable.It's like a few weeks ago when there was an article about mandating Red Flag Linux in cybercafes.
This place is very capitalist and such measures simply won't even be enacted, let alone enforced.Even the Chinese government know this.
From TFA:"The software must either be preinstalled on the hard drive or enclosed on a compact disc"So at the very best, it'll be a CD thrown away when new machines are purchased.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249767</id>
	<title>Re:Kind of disturbing...</title>
	<author>Krneki</author>
	<datestamp>1244469180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>You could do the same as Pirate Bay. USA here -&gt; o , China over there -------&gt; O. My laws here, yours there.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You could do the same as Pirate Bay .
USA here - &gt; o , China over there ------- &gt; O. My laws here , yours there .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could do the same as Pirate Bay.
USA here -&gt; o , China over there -------&gt; O. My laws here, yours there.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249623</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249571</id>
	<title>'stop the poisoning of children's minds'</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244467500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There's only one way to do that, and installing censorware on every PC in the country *isn't* it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's only one way to do that , and installing censorware on every PC in the country * is n't * it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's only one way to do that, and installing censorware on every PC in the country *isn't* it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28252355</id>
	<title>Re:More propaganda</title>
	<author>Jesus\_666</author>
	<datestamp>1244482800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Last entirely positive news? Must've been when they bought our (German) monorail tech. It
s been a couple of years, though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Last entirely positive news ?
Must 've been when they bought our ( German ) monorail tech .
It s been a couple of years , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Last entirely positive news?
Must've been when they bought our (German) monorail tech.
It
s been a couple of years, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249575</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28255089</id>
	<title>Re:Same thing here in USA</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244494260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p> Same as in France too.. (and maybe tomorow in Europe - I'm very pessimistic on this point..)<br>
&nbsp; Remember the famous "HADOPI law" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadopi) enacted last month in France, which requires the user to install a "security package certified by the gouvernment" on his/her computer in order to not be SUSPECTED of "use of a Internet connection disregardful towards the copyright laws" and punished by a conection cut without proper judiciary court ruling.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Same as in France too.. ( and maybe tomorow in Europe - I 'm very pessimistic on this point.. )   Remember the famous " HADOPI law " ( http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadopi ) enacted last month in France , which requires the user to install a " security package certified by the gouvernment " on his/her computer in order to not be SUSPECTED of " use of a Internet connection disregardful towards the copyright laws " and punished by a conection cut without proper judiciary court ruling .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Same as in France too.. (and maybe tomorow in Europe - I'm very pessimistic on this point..)
  Remember the famous "HADOPI law" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadopi) enacted last month in France, which requires the user to install a "security package certified by the gouvernment" on his/her computer in order to not be SUSPECTED of "use of a Internet connection disregardful towards the copyright laws" and punished by a conection cut without proper judiciary court ruling.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250215</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249733</id>
	<title>Re:But does it run on Linux</title>
	<author>FrostDust</author>
	<datestamp>1244469000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ever heard of Red Flag Linux? I'd expect them to they eventually made it compatible, or even have it pre-installed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ever heard of Red Flag Linux ?
I 'd expect them to they eventually made it compatible , or even have it pre-installed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ever heard of Red Flag Linux?
I'd expect them to they eventually made it compatible, or even have it pre-installed.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249545</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250723</id>
	<title>Re:More propaganda</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244474520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>When was the last time you read a positive news article about China?</i></p><p>Every single weeknight, without fail. On Bloomberg.</p><p>I don't know who's the bigger idiot: you or the two schmucks who modded you up.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When was the last time you read a positive news article about China ? Every single weeknight , without fail .
On Bloomberg.I do n't know who 's the bigger idiot : you or the two schmucks who modded you up .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When was the last time you read a positive news article about China?Every single weeknight, without fail.
On Bloomberg.I don't know who's the bigger idiot: you or the two schmucks who modded you up.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249575</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251095</id>
	<title>Communism! You keep using that word....</title>
	<author>Phizzle</author>
	<datestamp>1244476440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><b>I do not think it means what you think it means.</b> <br>
<br>Inigo Montoya</htmltext>
<tokenext>I do not think it means what you think it means .
Inigo Montoya</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I do not think it means what you think it means.
Inigo Montoya</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28253005</id>
	<title>"the children"</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244485140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I think what annoys me most about this is the "stop the poisoning of children's minds" thing.</p><p>I don't have children.  I don't want children.  Why in the hell should MY browsing options be dictated by what others think that children should or should not see?  If this is to come pre-installed, you can bet that the government will be checking computers connected to the internet to make sure it STAYS installed, and isn't just formatted away.</p><p>I mean... so far this is only being thought of for China... but give north america time.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I think what annoys me most about this is the " stop the poisoning of children 's minds " thing.I do n't have children .
I do n't want children .
Why in the hell should MY browsing options be dictated by what others think that children should or should not see ?
If this is to come pre-installed , you can bet that the government will be checking computers connected to the internet to make sure it STAYS installed , and is n't just formatted away.I mean... so far this is only being thought of for China... but give north america time .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I think what annoys me most about this is the "stop the poisoning of children's minds" thing.I don't have children.
I don't want children.
Why in the hell should MY browsing options be dictated by what others think that children should or should not see?
If this is to come pre-installed, you can bet that the government will be checking computers connected to the internet to make sure it STAYS installed, and isn't just formatted away.I mean... so far this is only being thought of for China... but give north america time.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249759</id>
	<title>someone reverse engineer it</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244469120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I would like to see some analysis of the software, i.e. decompilation and other reverse engineering. That's likely the only *true* way to find out what's its doing...</p><p>I'm interested in the technical details, like will running it inside a dedicated virtual machine or otherwise sandboxed meet the requirements of the "rule"? Speaking of, will the "rule" ever be truly be available publicly? (Like on-the-internet publicly, not must-show-up-in-person-at-Communist-Party-Headquarters-and-turn-over-your-passport publicly, because we know how they run things in Commie China.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would like to see some analysis of the software , i.e .
decompilation and other reverse engineering .
That 's likely the only * true * way to find out what 's its doing...I 'm interested in the technical details , like will running it inside a dedicated virtual machine or otherwise sandboxed meet the requirements of the " rule " ?
Speaking of , will the " rule " ever be truly be available publicly ?
( Like on-the-internet publicly , not must-show-up-in-person-at-Communist-Party-Headquarters-and-turn-over-your-passport publicly , because we know how they run things in Commie China .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would like to see some analysis of the software, i.e.
decompilation and other reverse engineering.
That's likely the only *true* way to find out what's its doing...I'm interested in the technical details, like will running it inside a dedicated virtual machine or otherwise sandboxed meet the requirements of the "rule"?
Speaking of, will the "rule" ever be truly be available publicly?
(Like on-the-internet publicly, not must-show-up-in-person-at-Communist-Party-Headquarters-and-turn-over-your-passport publicly, because we know how they run things in Commie China.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28253087</id>
	<title>Chinese gov't mandates indentured servitude for US</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244485560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>citizens.  Here's HOPING the US can remain solvent until 2012.  All hail the merciful lord Barry Soetoro!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>citizens .
Here 's HOPING the US can remain solvent until 2012 .
All hail the merciful lord Barry Soetoro !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>citizens.
Here's HOPING the US can remain solvent until 2012.
All hail the merciful lord Barry Soetoro!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249491</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249567</id>
	<title>Haha, this silliness reminds me of</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244467500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>the amish computer virus...</p><p>Please don't click this link: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/4199/virus.html" title="geocities.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/4199/virus.html</a> [geocities.com]</p><p><b>Don't say I didn't warn you!</b></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>the amish computer virus...Please do n't click this link : http : //www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/4199/virus.html [ geocities.com ] Do n't say I did n't warn you !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>the amish computer virus...Please don't click this link: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/4199/virus.html [geocities.com]Don't say I didn't warn you!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251161</id>
	<title>Only a matter of time</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244476800000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>before some cracker breaks into the update system, and turns most of China's computers into an enormous botnet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>before some cracker breaks into the update system , and turns most of China 's computers into an enormous botnet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>before some cracker breaks into the update system, and turns most of China's computers into an enormous botnet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251219</id>
	<title>Re:Count down to a hack around it in...</title>
	<author>T Murphy</author>
	<datestamp>1244477040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>As far as I've heard, the sentiment in China is that democracy is too weak and leads to civil unrest, so the authoritarian rule is accepted as a needed form of government. I completely agree with you that the average Chinese person is content without democracy or what we see as basic rights. I am afraid, though, that the comparison in their mind is a choice of a stable authoritarian rule, or an unstable democracy. I would be curious what the general opinion would be if they were guaranteed equal stability with either form of government.</htmltext>
<tokenext>As far as I 've heard , the sentiment in China is that democracy is too weak and leads to civil unrest , so the authoritarian rule is accepted as a needed form of government .
I completely agree with you that the average Chinese person is content without democracy or what we see as basic rights .
I am afraid , though , that the comparison in their mind is a choice of a stable authoritarian rule , or an unstable democracy .
I would be curious what the general opinion would be if they were guaranteed equal stability with either form of government .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As far as I've heard, the sentiment in China is that democracy is too weak and leads to civil unrest, so the authoritarian rule is accepted as a needed form of government.
I completely agree with you that the average Chinese person is content without democracy or what we see as basic rights.
I am afraid, though, that the comparison in their mind is a choice of a stable authoritarian rule, or an unstable democracy.
I would be curious what the general opinion would be if they were guaranteed equal stability with either form of government.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249751</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250839</id>
	<title>Re:Can't be expected to change much</title>
	<author>Registered Coward v2</author>
	<datestamp>1244475120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>I would caution, however, against vilifying China too much in this regard. Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos. Often the very Chinese you think would be rebelling against measures like this--people who read foreign news and travel or even reside abroad--think it necessary for the health of their country. Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country.</p></div><p>If you don't subscribe to the idea that China is one monolithic country but rather a collection of differing groups bound together by a strong central government (such as the old USSR); then the "chaos" would be a natural breakup into separate nations.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would caution , however , against vilifying China too much in this regard .
Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos .
Often the very Chinese you think would be rebelling against measures like this--people who read foreign news and travel or even reside abroad--think it necessary for the health of their country .
Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country.If you do n't subscribe to the idea that China is one monolithic country but rather a collection of differing groups bound together by a strong central government ( such as the old USSR ) ; then the " chaos " would be a natural breakup into separate nations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would caution, however, against vilifying China too much in this regard.
Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos.
Often the very Chinese you think would be rebelling against measures like this--people who read foreign news and travel or even reside abroad--think it necessary for the health of their country.
Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country.If you don't subscribe to the idea that China is one monolithic country but rather a collection of differing groups bound together by a strong central government (such as the old USSR); then the "chaos" would be a natural breakup into separate nations.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251775</id>
	<title>New Market :-)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244479920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I predict a great future market in China for Knoppiz et al.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I predict a great future market in China for Knoppiz et al .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I predict a great future market in China for Knoppiz et al.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28255097</id>
	<title>Re:Nanny State Cat Accepts Nanny State</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244494260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>so stupid, i hate the chinese government, screw all government... all of em.  i have this predictable gag reflex any time somebody says "think of the children" "dont poison youths minds" etc etc -- poison the fuck out of em man, who gives a crap, we don't live in happy, fair, even world -- kids need to learn how much this place sucks before they get to be adults and realize it and have breakdowns and shoot their heads off.</p><p>all joking aside... we shouldn't even have government, and its too bad that the minute i say "anarchy" its meaning completely disintegrates.  oh if only we could wipe the memory of democracy, communism, socialism, all those fucking plagues on the world from memory.  government is just the best tool for power hungry assholes to codify the masses into little cogwheel servants...</p><p>oh final note... if this comment isn't deleted... the social contract is just more bullshit out of propagandized history books, we're all slaves, authority is imaginary... until there's a gun in your face and even then i'd let em pull the trigger before i said you were right.  fight the power bitches, make your own rules.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>so stupid , i hate the chinese government , screw all government... all of em .
i have this predictable gag reflex any time somebody says " think of the children " " dont poison youths minds " etc etc -- poison the fuck out of em man , who gives a crap , we do n't live in happy , fair , even world -- kids need to learn how much this place sucks before they get to be adults and realize it and have breakdowns and shoot their heads off.all joking aside... we should n't even have government , and its too bad that the minute i say " anarchy " its meaning completely disintegrates .
oh if only we could wipe the memory of democracy , communism , socialism , all those fucking plagues on the world from memory .
government is just the best tool for power hungry assholes to codify the masses into little cogwheel servants...oh final note... if this comment is n't deleted... the social contract is just more bullshit out of propagandized history books , we 're all slaves , authority is imaginary... until there 's a gun in your face and even then i 'd let em pull the trigger before i said you were right .
fight the power bitches , make your own rules .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>so stupid, i hate the chinese government, screw all government... all of em.
i have this predictable gag reflex any time somebody says "think of the children" "dont poison youths minds" etc etc -- poison the fuck out of em man, who gives a crap, we don't live in happy, fair, even world -- kids need to learn how much this place sucks before they get to be adults and realize it and have breakdowns and shoot their heads off.all joking aside... we shouldn't even have government, and its too bad that the minute i say "anarchy" its meaning completely disintegrates.
oh if only we could wipe the memory of democracy, communism, socialism, all those fucking plagues on the world from memory.
government is just the best tool for power hungry assholes to codify the masses into little cogwheel servants...oh final note... if this comment isn't deleted... the social contract is just more bullshit out of propagandized history books, we're all slaves, authority is imaginary... until there's a gun in your face and even then i'd let em pull the trigger before i said you were right.
fight the power bitches, make your own rules.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249491</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249755</id>
	<title>It could be a good thing</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244469120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>You could argue that it looks like a government solution for PC security. Yes, it can be abused, but if you implement it properly with the consent of the user I don't see any problem with it.<br><br>Anyway, isn't easier to create this filter on ISP level? Like a security package that you can choose.<br><br>Of course the devil is in the details, but there is no reason to start bashing China for this type of approach.</htmltext>
<tokenext>You could argue that it looks like a government solution for PC security .
Yes , it can be abused , but if you implement it properly with the consent of the user I do n't see any problem with it.Anyway , is n't easier to create this filter on ISP level ?
Like a security package that you can choose.Of course the devil is in the details , but there is no reason to start bashing China for this type of approach .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You could argue that it looks like a government solution for PC security.
Yes, it can be abused, but if you implement it properly with the consent of the user I don't see any problem with it.Anyway, isn't easier to create this filter on ISP level?
Like a security package that you can choose.Of course the devil is in the details, but there is no reason to start bashing China for this type of approach.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250745</id>
	<title>Re:It could be a good thing</title>
	<author>Darkness404</author>
	<datestamp>1244474640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...Except for a few facts. This is being done not just by a government, but one of the most oppressive, authoritarian, and anti-freedom governments on the face of the earth. <br> <br>If there is one thing worse than not having an anti-virus (on a Windows box at least) its having a bad or outdated one. <br> <br>

The problem with blocking things like this on the ISP level with malware and such is censorship. Assuming a normal policy of "we aren't going to review or fix this" will lead to, in time many legitimate websites being blocked the reason being twofold, first there isn't a one-stop-shop for malware, you don't go to www.example.com/files/malware to download all malware, its tiny, many times infected and hijacked websites that contain malware. Then what happens when a domain name that had malware expires and a legitimate website springs up? If it was a large business and the ISP didn't quickly unblock it they could easily sue.</htmltext>
<tokenext>...Except for a few facts .
This is being done not just by a government , but one of the most oppressive , authoritarian , and anti-freedom governments on the face of the earth .
If there is one thing worse than not having an anti-virus ( on a Windows box at least ) its having a bad or outdated one .
The problem with blocking things like this on the ISP level with malware and such is censorship .
Assuming a normal policy of " we are n't going to review or fix this " will lead to , in time many legitimate websites being blocked the reason being twofold , first there is n't a one-stop-shop for malware , you do n't go to www.example.com/files/malware to download all malware , its tiny , many times infected and hijacked websites that contain malware .
Then what happens when a domain name that had malware expires and a legitimate website springs up ?
If it was a large business and the ISP did n't quickly unblock it they could easily sue .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...Except for a few facts.
This is being done not just by a government, but one of the most oppressive, authoritarian, and anti-freedom governments on the face of the earth.
If there is one thing worse than not having an anti-virus (on a Windows box at least) its having a bad or outdated one.
The problem with blocking things like this on the ISP level with malware and such is censorship.
Assuming a normal policy of "we aren't going to review or fix this" will lead to, in time many legitimate websites being blocked the reason being twofold, first there isn't a one-stop-shop for malware, you don't go to www.example.com/files/malware to download all malware, its tiny, many times infected and hijacked websites that contain malware.
Then what happens when a domain name that had malware expires and a legitimate website springs up?
If it was a large business and the ISP didn't quickly unblock it they could easily sue.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249755</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251311</id>
	<title>Re:Fight communist tyranny and opression</title>
	<author>dave420</author>
	<datestamp>1244477460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The software can be uninstalled.  It only prevents kids from accessing porn on the internet.  The list of blocked sites is maintained by a private company, not the government.  Maybe it should be your patriotic duty to read the article?</htmltext>
<tokenext>The software can be uninstalled .
It only prevents kids from accessing porn on the internet .
The list of blocked sites is maintained by a private company , not the government .
Maybe it should be your patriotic duty to read the article ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The software can be uninstalled.
It only prevents kids from accessing porn on the internet.
The list of blocked sites is maintained by a private company, not the government.
Maybe it should be your patriotic duty to read the article?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250073</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28263671</id>
	<title>Re:Kind of disturbing...</title>
	<author>Philip\_the\_physicist</author>
	<datestamp>1244550840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>There is an old saying, updated only because of inflation:
If you owe the bank $100k, you have a problem. If you owe the bank $100M, the bamk has a problem<p>
Multiply the sums by a large factor,and it applies to states as well.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There is an old saying , updated only because of inflation : If you owe the bank $ 100k , you have a problem .
If you owe the bank $ 100M , the bamk has a problem Multiply the sums by a large factor,and it applies to states as well .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There is an old saying, updated only because of inflation:
If you owe the bank $100k, you have a problem.
If you owe the bank $100M, the bamk has a problem
Multiply the sums by a large factor,and it applies to states as well.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249623</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249493</id>
	<title>Chinese hackers to mandate leet speak</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244466900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It figures that chinese dissidents will still be able to get around censorship filters for a while before the communist regime learns how most basic filters can be dodged with search terms like "pr0n" and "1337 h4xx0rz".</htmltext>
<tokenext>It figures that chinese dissidents will still be able to get around censorship filters for a while before the communist regime learns how most basic filters can be dodged with search terms like " pr0n " and " 1337 h4xx0rz " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It figures that chinese dissidents will still be able to get around censorship filters for a while before the communist regime learns how most basic filters can be dodged with search terms like "pr0n" and "1337 h4xx0rz".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28287641</id>
	<title>Back door in Green Dam -Tom Paine</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244641080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wouldn't it be great if some hackers used the back door in the software to load the new book" Prisoner of the State: The Secret Journal of Premier Zhao Ziyang " into every Chinese computer that has the Green Dam software?  Just a suggestion, for hackers who would like to demonstrate their abilities, and yet do good rather than harm....While you're at it, how about adding Charter 08?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Would n't it be great if some hackers used the back door in the software to load the new book " Prisoner of the State : The Secret Journal of Premier Zhao Ziyang " into every Chinese computer that has the Green Dam software ?
Just a suggestion , for hackers who would like to demonstrate their abilities , and yet do good rather than harm....While you 're at it , how about adding Charter 08 ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wouldn't it be great if some hackers used the back door in the software to load the new book" Prisoner of the State: The Secret Journal of Premier Zhao Ziyang " into every Chinese computer that has the Green Dam software?
Just a suggestion, for hackers who would like to demonstrate their abilities, and yet do good rather than harm....While you're at it, how about adding Charter 08?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249491</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250553</id>
	<title>Does it run BSD?  It better!</title>
	<author>davidwr</author>
	<datestamp>1244473620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>After all, what's more left-wing than Berkeley?  *joke*</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>After all , what 's more left-wing than Berkeley ?
* joke *</tokentext>
<sentencetext>After all, what's more left-wing than Berkeley?
*joke*</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249545</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28261235</id>
	<title>Re:Can't be expected to change much</title>
	<author>Kaiwen</author>
	<datestamp>1244479620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>"I imagine things will stay pretty much the same<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... . Before<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you would just install Tor on your PC. Now you would just wipe the hard drive and install your OS of choice from a trustworthy CD."</i>

<p>Agreed, in part. However, as others have argued, technologically there is nothing preventing the government from, say, forcing the software into the IP stack, or requiring ISPs to incorporate it into the software suite they already install on customer PCs ("You need this to access the Internet" is all your friendly serviceman need say)***. Of course, as long as the software is restricted to IP banning, any anonymous proxy will still circumvent it. But can you say "feature creep"? Let Skype be a lesson to us all: <b>Breaching Trust: An analysis of surveillance and security practices on China's TOM-Skype platform</b> (<a href="http://www.nartv.org/mirror/breachingtrust.pdf" title="nartv.org">http://www.nartv.org/mirror/breachingtrust.pdf</a> [nartv.org]).

</p><p> <i>I would caution, however, against vilifying China too much in this regard. Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos.</i>

</p><p>I was tempted to argue with your adjectives here, but then why? Ask the inmates at Gitmo or Abu Ghraib about the brutality of the US government, and then note the ease with which the Patriot Act passed, and the significant percentage of American intelligentsia that argued for its necessity in protecting American values. The American bogeyman is the "terrorist", hell-bent on destroying "freedom". Replace "terrorist" and "freedom" with "political dissident" and "social harmony" and the Chinese argument becomes indistinguishable. Certain levels of censorship and monitoring (pronounced "warrantless wiretapping") are viewed as necessary and essential tools in the struggle to protect social harmony from the onslaught of its political enemies, and most Chinese are more than happy to allow it.

</p><p>Lee Kaiwen, Shanghai.

</p><p>***Actually, I'm surprised it wasn't done this way. Since the the software only needs to be present on PCs that actually access the Internet, what more efficient point of attack than ISPs? Mandating the software for Internet service would go along way toward ensuring its ubiquity. 'Course, I don't wanna be giving the government any ideas<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I imagine things will stay pretty much the same ... . Before ... you would just install Tor on your PC .
Now you would just wipe the hard drive and install your OS of choice from a trustworthy CD .
" Agreed , in part .
However , as others have argued , technologically there is nothing preventing the government from , say , forcing the software into the IP stack , or requiring ISPs to incorporate it into the software suite they already install on customer PCs ( " You need this to access the Internet " is all your friendly serviceman need say ) * * * .
Of course , as long as the software is restricted to IP banning , any anonymous proxy will still circumvent it .
But can you say " feature creep " ?
Let Skype be a lesson to us all : Breaching Trust : An analysis of surveillance and security practices on China 's TOM-Skype platform ( http : //www.nartv.org/mirror/breachingtrust.pdf [ nartv.org ] ) .
I would caution , however , against vilifying China too much in this regard .
Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos .
I was tempted to argue with your adjectives here , but then why ?
Ask the inmates at Gitmo or Abu Ghraib about the brutality of the US government , and then note the ease with which the Patriot Act passed , and the significant percentage of American intelligentsia that argued for its necessity in protecting American values .
The American bogeyman is the " terrorist " , hell-bent on destroying " freedom " .
Replace " terrorist " and " freedom " with " political dissident " and " social harmony " and the Chinese argument becomes indistinguishable .
Certain levels of censorship and monitoring ( pronounced " warrantless wiretapping " ) are viewed as necessary and essential tools in the struggle to protect social harmony from the onslaught of its political enemies , and most Chinese are more than happy to allow it .
Lee Kaiwen , Shanghai .
* * * Actually , I 'm surprised it was n't done this way .
Since the the software only needs to be present on PCs that actually access the Internet , what more efficient point of attack than ISPs ?
Mandating the software for Internet service would go along way toward ensuring its ubiquity .
'Course , I do n't wan na be giving the government any ideas : - ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I imagine things will stay pretty much the same ... . Before ... you would just install Tor on your PC.
Now you would just wipe the hard drive and install your OS of choice from a trustworthy CD.
"

Agreed, in part.
However, as others have argued, technologically there is nothing preventing the government from, say, forcing the software into the IP stack, or requiring ISPs to incorporate it into the software suite they already install on customer PCs ("You need this to access the Internet" is all your friendly serviceman need say)***.
Of course, as long as the software is restricted to IP banning, any anonymous proxy will still circumvent it.
But can you say "feature creep"?
Let Skype be a lesson to us all: Breaching Trust: An analysis of surveillance and security practices on China's TOM-Skype platform (http://www.nartv.org/mirror/breachingtrust.pdf [nartv.org]).
I would caution, however, against vilifying China too much in this regard.
Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos.
I was tempted to argue with your adjectives here, but then why?
Ask the inmates at Gitmo or Abu Ghraib about the brutality of the US government, and then note the ease with which the Patriot Act passed, and the significant percentage of American intelligentsia that argued for its necessity in protecting American values.
The American bogeyman is the "terrorist", hell-bent on destroying "freedom".
Replace "terrorist" and "freedom" with "political dissident" and "social harmony" and the Chinese argument becomes indistinguishable.
Certain levels of censorship and monitoring (pronounced "warrantless wiretapping") are viewed as necessary and essential tools in the struggle to protect social harmony from the onslaught of its political enemies, and most Chinese are more than happy to allow it.
Lee Kaiwen, Shanghai.
***Actually, I'm surprised it wasn't done this way.
Since the the software only needs to be present on PCs that actually access the Internet, what more efficient point of attack than ISPs?
Mandating the software for Internet service would go along way toward ensuring its ubiquity.
'Course, I don't wanna be giving the government any ideas :-).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249511</id>
	<title>Count down to a hack around it in...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244467080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>3<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... 2.... 1....</p><p>Seriously, isn't this like the dutch boy with his finger in the dike (no, not dyke, get yer minds outta the gutter).</p><p>What I mean is that many forms of DRM are hacked within days or weeks of release. I cannot imagine a concerted effort of Chinese hackers or those in sympathy with the Chinese people, would not be able to bypass this and publish, even via sneakernet, a hack around it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>3 .... 2.... 1....Seriously , is n't this like the dutch boy with his finger in the dike ( no , not dyke , get yer minds outta the gutter ) .What I mean is that many forms of DRM are hacked within days or weeks of release .
I can not imagine a concerted effort of Chinese hackers or those in sympathy with the Chinese people , would not be able to bypass this and publish , even via sneakernet , a hack around it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>3 .... 2.... 1....Seriously, isn't this like the dutch boy with his finger in the dike (no, not dyke, get yer minds outta the gutter).What I mean is that many forms of DRM are hacked within days or weeks of release.
I cannot imagine a concerted effort of Chinese hackers or those in sympathy with the Chinese people, would not be able to bypass this and publish, even via sneakernet, a hack around it.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28255519</id>
	<title>Won'[t someone think of the children?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244452200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Ah well, you can get away with anything as long as it's packaged as "for the good of the innocent children".  They're learning their lesson well from us in the US.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Ah well , you can get away with anything as long as it 's packaged as " for the good of the innocent children " .
They 're learning their lesson well from us in the US .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Ah well, you can get away with anything as long as it's packaged as "for the good of the innocent children".
They're learning their lesson well from us in the US.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28255789</id>
	<title>Re:Kind of disturbing...</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1244453040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While i agree, think beyond that: Think WTO/UN and the whole world slowly becoming a monitored nanny-state.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While i agree , think beyond that : Think WTO/UN and the whole world slowly becoming a monitored nanny-state .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While i agree, think beyond that: Think WTO/UN and the whole world slowly becoming a monitored nanny-state.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249623</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249815</id>
	<title>Re:Kind of disturbing...</title>
	<author>castironpigeon</author>
	<datestamp>1244469420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Meh. China doesn't sponsor US politicians. Corporations do. China doesn't legitimize their positions. US citizens do. So how would China influence US policy? They wouldn't. And besides there are worse influences here at home to worry about.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Meh .
China does n't sponsor US politicians .
Corporations do .
China does n't legitimize their positions .
US citizens do .
So how would China influence US policy ?
They would n't .
And besides there are worse influences here at home to worry about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Meh.
China doesn't sponsor US politicians.
Corporations do.
China doesn't legitimize their positions.
US citizens do.
So how would China influence US policy?
They wouldn't.
And besides there are worse influences here at home to worry about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249623</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249623</id>
	<title>Kind of disturbing...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244467920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>China is the country that the USA keeps borrowing money from...wonder how long it will be before we start noticing some policy changes to our internet? What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are, or they won't let us borrow anymore money?</p><p>A slippery slope, indeed.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>China is the country that the USA keeps borrowing money from...wonder how long it will be before we start noticing some policy changes to our internet ?
What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are , or they wo n't let us borrow anymore money ? A slippery slope , indeed .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>China is the country that the USA keeps borrowing money from...wonder how long it will be before we start noticing some policy changes to our internet?
What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are, or they won't let us borrow anymore money?A slippery slope, indeed.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249951</id>
	<title>Re:Kind of disturbing...</title>
	<author>Registered Coward v2</author>
	<datestamp>1244470200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>China is the country that the USA keeps borrowing money from...wonder how long it will be before we start noticing some policy changes to our internet? What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are, or they won't let us borrow anymore money?</p><p>A slippery slope, indeed.</p></div><p>In the end, the political calculus is:</p><p> <i>Which side is willing to endure the most pain?</i></p><p>The US could just as easily refuse to honor the Chinese debt; or massively devalue the dollar and wipe it out.  Not good options, but both sides have power in this situation. </p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>China is the country that the USA keeps borrowing money from...wonder how long it will be before we start noticing some policy changes to our internet ?
What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are , or they wo n't let us borrow anymore money ? A slippery slope , indeed.In the end , the political calculus is : Which side is willing to endure the most pain ? The US could just as easily refuse to honor the Chinese debt ; or massively devalue the dollar and wipe it out .
Not good options , but both sides have power in this situation .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>China is the country that the USA keeps borrowing money from...wonder how long it will be before we start noticing some policy changes to our internet?
What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are, or they won't let us borrow anymore money?A slippery slope, indeed.In the end, the political calculus is: Which side is willing to endure the most pain?The US could just as easily refuse to honor the Chinese debt; or massively devalue the dollar and wipe it out.
Not good options, but both sides have power in this situation. 
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249623</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249545</id>
	<title>But does it run on Linux</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244467320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>...or that means Linux is officially banned in China</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>...or that means Linux is officially banned in China</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...or that means Linux is officially banned in China</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249805</id>
	<title>Re:'stop the poisoning of children's minds'</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244469360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>There's only one way to do that, and installing censorware on every PC in the country *isn't* it.</i></p><p>Ideal for implementation in the UK then, I can see NuLabour drooling over this tech already!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There 's only one way to do that , and installing censorware on every PC in the country * is n't * it.Ideal for implementation in the UK then , I can see NuLabour drooling over this tech already !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There's only one way to do that, and installing censorware on every PC in the country *isn't* it.Ideal for implementation in the UK then, I can see NuLabour drooling over this tech already!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249571</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249617</id>
	<title>Censore Malware?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244467860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Did anyone else read this as "Chinese Government to Censor Malware" the first time around?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Did anyone else read this as " Chinese Government to Censor Malware " the first time around ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Did anyone else read this as "Chinese Government to Censor Malware" the first time around?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249535</id>
	<title>Re:Chinese hackers to mandate leet speak</title>
	<author>eldavojohn</author>
	<datestamp>1244467260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>It figures that chinese dissidents will still be able to get around censorship filters for a while before the communist regime learns how most basic filters can be dodged with search terms like "pr0n" and "1337 h4xx0rz".</p></div><p>No.  Chinese "dissidents" looking to remove this filter need only uninstall it or disable it with the password they set when the software is installed.  <br> <br>

I don't think you understand how this software works in even the most basic sense, it bans IPs.  It doesn't ban searches for terms spelled correctly or incorrectly, it bans IPs.  The hackers can call their sites whatever they want.  They will just be added to the list of numbers sooner or later anyway.  The best thing they could do to avoid being on the list is just continually change their IP addresses.  <br> <br>

I wouldn't be surprised, however, to learn of Chinese kids implementing proxies on machines without the software to access whatever they want.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>It figures that chinese dissidents will still be able to get around censorship filters for a while before the communist regime learns how most basic filters can be dodged with search terms like " pr0n " and " 1337 h4xx0rz " .No .
Chinese " dissidents " looking to remove this filter need only uninstall it or disable it with the password they set when the software is installed .
I do n't think you understand how this software works in even the most basic sense , it bans IPs .
It does n't ban searches for terms spelled correctly or incorrectly , it bans IPs .
The hackers can call their sites whatever they want .
They will just be added to the list of numbers sooner or later anyway .
The best thing they could do to avoid being on the list is just continually change their IP addresses .
I would n't be surprised , however , to learn of Chinese kids implementing proxies on machines without the software to access whatever they want .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It figures that chinese dissidents will still be able to get around censorship filters for a while before the communist regime learns how most basic filters can be dodged with search terms like "pr0n" and "1337 h4xx0rz".No.
Chinese "dissidents" looking to remove this filter need only uninstall it or disable it with the password they set when the software is installed.
I don't think you understand how this software works in even the most basic sense, it bans IPs.
It doesn't ban searches for terms spelled correctly or incorrectly, it bans IPs.
The hackers can call their sites whatever they want.
They will just be added to the list of numbers sooner or later anyway.
The best thing they could do to avoid being on the list is just continually change their IP addresses.
I wouldn't be surprised, however, to learn of Chinese kids implementing proxies on machines without the software to access whatever they want.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249493</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250201</id>
	<title>Let the UN run the internet</title>
	<author>p51d007</author>
	<datestamp>1244471820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Offtopic</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>If ICANN ever give up "control" of the internet, so to speak, and they give it to the UN (useless nations), then it will be like
that every where.  People have become sheep, we give up our freedoms for (so called) security.  Look at the patriot act.
I'm a law and order type of person, but ANYTHING the government does that takes away my rights scares the crap out of
me.  We already have thought police.......what do you think political correctness is about?  Can't speak your mind anymore,
might offend someone.  We've been lead down this path, and, unfortunately, I don't think we can recover.  1984 is here, it
just took a few more decades to come to be.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If ICANN ever give up " control " of the internet , so to speak , and they give it to the UN ( useless nations ) , then it will be like that every where .
People have become sheep , we give up our freedoms for ( so called ) security .
Look at the patriot act .
I 'm a law and order type of person , but ANYTHING the government does that takes away my rights scares the crap out of me .
We already have thought police.......what do you think political correctness is about ?
Ca n't speak your mind anymore , might offend someone .
We 've been lead down this path , and , unfortunately , I do n't think we can recover .
1984 is here , it just took a few more decades to come to be .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If ICANN ever give up "control" of the internet, so to speak, and they give it to the UN (useless nations), then it will be like
that every where.
People have become sheep, we give up our freedoms for (so called) security.
Look at the patriot act.
I'm a law and order type of person, but ANYTHING the government does that takes away my rights scares the crap out of
me.
We already have thought police.......what do you think political correctness is about?
Can't speak your mind anymore,
might offend someone.
We've been lead down this path, and, unfortunately, I don't think we can recover.
1984 is here, it
just took a few more decades to come to be.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249491</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250073</id>
	<title>Fight communist tyranny and opression</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244470920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It should be the patriotic duty of any American company shipping PCs to China to crack and re-write this software and ship PCs with a hacked version that bypasses all Chinese censorship but still appears to be the official party censorware.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It should be the patriotic duty of any American company shipping PCs to China to crack and re-write this software and ship PCs with a hacked version that bypasses all Chinese censorship but still appears to be the official party censorware .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It should be the patriotic duty of any American company shipping PCs to China to crack and re-write this software and ship PCs with a hacked version that bypasses all Chinese censorship but still appears to be the official party censorware.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251517</id>
	<title>This isn't even a story...</title>
	<author>MikeURL</author>
	<datestamp>1244478420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>The Chinese people don't think of their government as a separate and distinct entity.  For them the government is like the air--it just is.  This IP-filtering thing won't cause an uproar there and in fact most Chinese will probably welcome it (or meet it with indifference).
<br> <br>
The Western world consistently misunderstands the relationship that the Chinese people have with their government.  It isn't at all like Western style governing where there is constant strife and eternal vigilance against the government usurping too much power.  There is much more of an implicit assumption that the State knows what is best and the "little people" should know their place.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The Chinese people do n't think of their government as a separate and distinct entity .
For them the government is like the air--it just is .
This IP-filtering thing wo n't cause an uproar there and in fact most Chinese will probably welcome it ( or meet it with indifference ) .
The Western world consistently misunderstands the relationship that the Chinese people have with their government .
It is n't at all like Western style governing where there is constant strife and eternal vigilance against the government usurping too much power .
There is much more of an implicit assumption that the State knows what is best and the " little people " should know their place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Chinese people don't think of their government as a separate and distinct entity.
For them the government is like the air--it just is.
This IP-filtering thing won't cause an uproar there and in fact most Chinese will probably welcome it (or meet it with indifference).
The Western world consistently misunderstands the relationship that the Chinese people have with their government.
It isn't at all like Western style governing where there is constant strife and eternal vigilance against the government usurping too much power.
There is much more of an implicit assumption that the State knows what is best and the "little people" should know their place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249491</id>
	<title>Nanny State Cat Accepts Nanny State</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244466900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>basically a PC-resident IP blocker that gets regular updates of banned sites from a central government site.</p></div><p>That's not what I read in the article, I read that the founder of Jinhui Computer System Engineering (Mr. Zhang) said:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Mr Zhang said <b>his company now compiles and maintains the list of blocked sites</b>, which he says is currently limited to pornography sites. But the software makes it possible to restrict other sites.</p></div><p>So the company seems to be maintaining that list of sites<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... if it's coming from the government why wouldn't they say?  China hasn't been too shy of saying it's in control of other things.  Why that level of abstraction unless the Chinese government just wants all computers to have the option of being green?  <br> <br>

Interesting to note that <i>might</i> be blown out of proportion as it's unclear how this software works or if it's activated by default.  The reason I say that is this line from the article:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>the Green Dam software can be turned off if parents want to access blocked sites, and that the program can be uninstalled. Users who want to remove it need a password that they set when the software is installed, a precaution he said is aimed at preventing children from disabling the software.</p></div><p>And also:</p><p><div class="quote"><p>The notice says the software must either be preinstalled on the hard drive or enclosed on a compact disc.</p></div><p>So it's ok if I burn this to a compact disc and include it with a netbook that has no compact disc drive?  And I am not required to install that on the computer?  <br> <br>

It seems that there are ways around this for both the producers and consumers and that this is just the trend of China being Nanny State China.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>basically a PC-resident IP blocker that gets regular updates of banned sites from a central government site.That 's not what I read in the article , I read that the founder of Jinhui Computer System Engineering ( Mr. Zhang ) said : Mr Zhang said his company now compiles and maintains the list of blocked sites , which he says is currently limited to pornography sites .
But the software makes it possible to restrict other sites.So the company seems to be maintaining that list of sites ... if it 's coming from the government why would n't they say ?
China has n't been too shy of saying it 's in control of other things .
Why that level of abstraction unless the Chinese government just wants all computers to have the option of being green ?
Interesting to note that might be blown out of proportion as it 's unclear how this software works or if it 's activated by default .
The reason I say that is this line from the article : the Green Dam software can be turned off if parents want to access blocked sites , and that the program can be uninstalled .
Users who want to remove it need a password that they set when the software is installed , a precaution he said is aimed at preventing children from disabling the software.And also : The notice says the software must either be preinstalled on the hard drive or enclosed on a compact disc.So it 's ok if I burn this to a compact disc and include it with a netbook that has no compact disc drive ?
And I am not required to install that on the computer ?
It seems that there are ways around this for both the producers and consumers and that this is just the trend of China being Nanny State China .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>basically a PC-resident IP blocker that gets regular updates of banned sites from a central government site.That's not what I read in the article, I read that the founder of Jinhui Computer System Engineering (Mr. Zhang) said:Mr Zhang said his company now compiles and maintains the list of blocked sites, which he says is currently limited to pornography sites.
But the software makes it possible to restrict other sites.So the company seems to be maintaining that list of sites ... if it's coming from the government why wouldn't they say?
China hasn't been too shy of saying it's in control of other things.
Why that level of abstraction unless the Chinese government just wants all computers to have the option of being green?
Interesting to note that might be blown out of proportion as it's unclear how this software works or if it's activated by default.
The reason I say that is this line from the article:the Green Dam software can be turned off if parents want to access blocked sites, and that the program can be uninstalled.
Users who want to remove it need a password that they set when the software is installed, a precaution he said is aimed at preventing children from disabling the software.And also:The notice says the software must either be preinstalled on the hard drive or enclosed on a compact disc.So it's ok if I burn this to a compact disc and include it with a netbook that has no compact disc drive?
And I am not required to install that on the computer?
It seems that there are ways around this for both the producers and consumers and that this is just the trend of China being Nanny State China.
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251945</id>
	<title>You know what...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244480820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>mark me as a troll all you want but God bless the USA.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>mark me as a troll all you want but God bless the USA .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>mark me as a troll all you want but God bless the USA.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28253293</id>
	<title>Re:Nanny State Cat Accepts Nanny State</title>
	<author>westlake</author>
	<datestamp>1244486700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>this is just the trend of China being Nanny State China.</i> </p><p>Trend?</p><p> What trend?</p><p> China has a tradition of centralized - intrusive - bureaucratic - government that goes back over 2,000 years.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>this is just the trend of China being Nanny State China .
Trend ? What trend ?
China has a tradition of centralized - intrusive - bureaucratic - government that goes back over 2,000 years .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>this is just the trend of China being Nanny State China.
Trend? What trend?
China has a tradition of centralized - intrusive - bureaucratic - government that goes back over 2,000 years.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249491</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249699</id>
	<title>another great way of stealing people's money</title>
	<author>Pharago</author>
	<datestamp>1244468700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>i wouldn't be surprised if there were some monetary ties between some government officials and those licensing the software, read:corruption

they make a program and pass a law so that everybody must use it, now they charge the government who pays a hefty amount of money that comes from taxes, and a new bussiness is made, i wonder how much money are we talking here</htmltext>
<tokenext>i would n't be surprised if there were some monetary ties between some government officials and those licensing the software , read : corruption they make a program and pass a law so that everybody must use it , now they charge the government who pays a hefty amount of money that comes from taxes , and a new bussiness is made , i wonder how much money are we talking here</tokentext>
<sentencetext>i wouldn't be surprised if there were some monetary ties between some government officials and those licensing the software, read:corruption

they make a program and pass a law so that everybody must use it, now they charge the government who pays a hefty amount of money that comes from taxes, and a new bussiness is made, i wonder how much money are we talking here</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249553</id>
	<title>a BIOS modification</title>
	<author>itsthebin</author>
	<datestamp>1244467380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I doubt it.
<br>
<br>
only runs on windows - probably
<br>
<br>
another bottom feeder trying to get a juicy govt contract - probably
<br>
<br>
will it work - of course not</htmltext>
<tokenext>I doubt it .
only runs on windows - probably another bottom feeder trying to get a juicy govt contract - probably will it work - of course not</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I doubt it.
only runs on windows - probably


another bottom feeder trying to get a juicy govt contract - probably


will it work - of course not</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28287801</id>
	<title>Re:Can't be expected to change much</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244642220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey, CC - I'd be happy to take away YOUR freedom to express your views, and do unhampered reading on the internet.  Obviously, you can't handle it responsibly, since you advocate dictatorship. I also think you should be allowed to view only official Communist government sponsored sites.  And you should be locked up for a few years, and beaten daily, if you disobey or complain about the restrictions.  Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, doncha know.</p><p>Wouldn't it be great if some hackers used the back door in the Green Dam software to load the new book" Prisoner of the State: The Secret Journal of Premier Zhao Ziyang " into every Chinese computer that has the Green Dam software?  Just a suggestion, for hackers who would like to demonstrate their abilities, and yet do good rather than harm....While you're at it, how about adding Charter 08?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey , CC - I 'd be happy to take away YOUR freedom to express your views , and do unhampered reading on the internet .
Obviously , you ca n't handle it responsibly , since you advocate dictatorship .
I also think you should be allowed to view only official Communist government sponsored sites .
And you should be locked up for a few years , and beaten daily , if you disobey or complain about the restrictions .
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander , doncha know.Would n't it be great if some hackers used the back door in the Green Dam software to load the new book " Prisoner of the State : The Secret Journal of Premier Zhao Ziyang " into every Chinese computer that has the Green Dam software ?
Just a suggestion , for hackers who would like to demonstrate their abilities , and yet do good rather than harm....While you 're at it , how about adding Charter 08 ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey, CC - I'd be happy to take away YOUR freedom to express your views, and do unhampered reading on the internet.
Obviously, you can't handle it responsibly, since you advocate dictatorship.
I also think you should be allowed to view only official Communist government sponsored sites.
And you should be locked up for a few years, and beaten daily, if you disobey or complain about the restrictions.
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, doncha know.Wouldn't it be great if some hackers used the back door in the Green Dam software to load the new book" Prisoner of the State: The Secret Journal of Premier Zhao Ziyang " into every Chinese computer that has the Green Dam software?
Just a suggestion, for hackers who would like to demonstrate their abilities, and yet do good rather than harm....While you're at it, how about adding Charter 08?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251287</id>
	<title>Re:Count down to a hack around it in...</title>
	<author>dave420</author>
	<datestamp>1244477340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>A hack around it?  How about clicking 'Uninstall' - it has that feature, you know.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A hack around it ?
How about clicking 'Uninstall ' - it has that feature , you know .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A hack around it?
How about clicking 'Uninstall' - it has that feature, you know.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249511</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251453</id>
	<title>Re:Can't be expected to change much</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244478180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The U.S. notion of freedom doesn't even apply to the U.S. See Patriot Act and the recent changes to FISA. See the DMCA. See the Bush (and now Obama) administration.</p><p>While I truly believe in the ideals of democracy and civil rights, there have always been times when practicality has been opposed to it. Of course, an authoritarian government cannot sustain itself (see USSR, China pre-capitalist expansion, Cuba, etc.) economically, so eventually the government will have to let the reigns loose if it wants to preserve the country in the global scheme of things.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The U.S. notion of freedom does n't even apply to the U.S. See Patriot Act and the recent changes to FISA .
See the DMCA .
See the Bush ( and now Obama ) administration.While I truly believe in the ideals of democracy and civil rights , there have always been times when practicality has been opposed to it .
Of course , an authoritarian government can not sustain itself ( see USSR , China pre-capitalist expansion , Cuba , etc .
) economically , so eventually the government will have to let the reigns loose if it wants to preserve the country in the global scheme of things .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The U.S. notion of freedom doesn't even apply to the U.S. See Patriot Act and the recent changes to FISA.
See the DMCA.
See the Bush (and now Obama) administration.While I truly believe in the ideals of democracy and civil rights, there have always been times when practicality has been opposed to it.
Of course, an authoritarian government cannot sustain itself (see USSR, China pre-capitalist expansion, Cuba, etc.
) economically, so eventually the government will have to let the reigns loose if it wants to preserve the country in the global scheme of things.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28255751</id>
	<title>Re:Can't be expected to change much</title>
	<author>nurb432</author>
	<datestamp>1244452920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sure, you can wipe the PC and go on your merry way ( unless TPM is in place ), but don't count on getting online. It would be trivial to require this 'monitor' to be wedged in down in your IP stack before you can connect to an ISP ( sort of like how AOL and NetZero did it ).</p><p>Even worse, if you try it, the ISP might report you to the government as an attempt to 'circumvent'.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sure , you can wipe the PC and go on your merry way ( unless TPM is in place ) , but do n't count on getting online .
It would be trivial to require this 'monitor ' to be wedged in down in your IP stack before you can connect to an ISP ( sort of like how AOL and NetZero did it ) .Even worse , if you try it , the ISP might report you to the government as an attempt to 'circumvent' .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sure, you can wipe the PC and go on your merry way ( unless TPM is in place ), but don't count on getting online.
It would be trivial to require this 'monitor' to be wedged in down in your IP stack before you can connect to an ISP ( sort of like how AOL and NetZero did it ).Even worse, if you try it, the ISP might report you to the government as an attempt to 'circumvent'.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249705</id>
	<title>Paedophiles and terrorists?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244468820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Do I need to say more? The sickos who object to this kind of responsible internets management should be thrown in jail</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Do I need to say more ?
The sickos who object to this kind of responsible internets management should be thrown in jail</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Do I need to say more?
The sickos who object to this kind of responsible internets management should be thrown in jail</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249939</id>
	<title>Re:Count down to a hack around it in...</title>
	<author>John Hasler</author>
	<datestamp>1244470140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The Chinese government has long since figured out that it doesn't matter if a tiny number of geeks can get around their censorship as long as they can impose it on most of the population.  And they can and do.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The Chinese government has long since figured out that it does n't matter if a tiny number of geeks can get around their censorship as long as they can impose it on most of the population .
And they can and do .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The Chinese government has long since figured out that it doesn't matter if a tiny number of geeks can get around their censorship as long as they can impose it on most of the population.
And they can and do.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249511</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249751</id>
	<title>Re:Count down to a hack around it in...</title>
	<author>CRCulver</author>
	<datestamp>1244469120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I cannot imagine a concerted effort of Chinese hackers or those in sympathy with the Chinese people</p></div> </blockquote><p>As I wrote in another comment here, I suspect the Chinese people are generally in favour of censorship. Though people in the West may want to paint the Chinese masses as a suffering people yearning to break free of the yoke of oppressive government, such a portrayal may not stand up to facts. Indeed, just last week in the International Herald Tribune (the international version of the New York Times) there was an article about how Chinese students nowadays think Tiananmen-square style civic commitment needs to be nipped in the bud, because it would threaten China's economic development that is making them very happy.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I can not imagine a concerted effort of Chinese hackers or those in sympathy with the Chinese people As I wrote in another comment here , I suspect the Chinese people are generally in favour of censorship .
Though people in the West may want to paint the Chinese masses as a suffering people yearning to break free of the yoke of oppressive government , such a portrayal may not stand up to facts .
Indeed , just last week in the International Herald Tribune ( the international version of the New York Times ) there was an article about how Chinese students nowadays think Tiananmen-square style civic commitment needs to be nipped in the bud , because it would threaten China 's economic development that is making them very happy .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I cannot imagine a concerted effort of Chinese hackers or those in sympathy with the Chinese people As I wrote in another comment here, I suspect the Chinese people are generally in favour of censorship.
Though people in the West may want to paint the Chinese masses as a suffering people yearning to break free of the yoke of oppressive government, such a portrayal may not stand up to facts.
Indeed, just last week in the International Herald Tribune (the international version of the New York Times) there was an article about how Chinese students nowadays think Tiananmen-square style civic commitment needs to be nipped in the bud, because it would threaten China's economic development that is making them very happy.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249511</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250849</id>
	<title>Re:Doesn't quite work like that</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244475120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What you said is partly true. Actually China prefer not to buy U.S. bonds, which are not that profitable since U.S. dollar is becoming cheaper. China has a lot of other better choices.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What you said is partly true .
Actually China prefer not to buy U.S. bonds , which are not that profitable since U.S. dollar is becoming cheaper .
China has a lot of other better choices .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What you said is partly true.
Actually China prefer not to buy U.S. bonds, which are not that profitable since U.S. dollar is becoming cheaper.
China has a lot of other better choices.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250181</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249585</id>
	<title>E-rate</title>
	<author>AMSmith42</author>
	<datestamp>1244467680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>And I thought e-rate was bad. At least this kind of filtering in the U.S. is only mandated in the elementary schools and public libraries... so far.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>And I thought e-rate was bad .
At least this kind of filtering in the U.S. is only mandated in the elementary schools and public libraries... so far .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And I thought e-rate was bad.
At least this kind of filtering in the U.S. is only mandated in the elementary schools and public libraries... so far.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28255927</id>
	<title>Re:Can't be expected to change much</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244453460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hmm. A Confucianist says "you're all wrong, and you need to study Confucianism". A Chinese scholar insists that China is the center of the world. Someone from country A says "you country B folk can't see past your bias!" and then goes on a spiel deeply infused with country A bias.</p><p>All of this is unsurprising - and unhelpful.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hmm .
A Confucianist says " you 're all wrong , and you need to study Confucianism " .
A Chinese scholar insists that China is the center of the world .
Someone from country A says " you country B folk ca n't see past your bias !
" and then goes on a spiel deeply infused with country A bias.All of this is unsurprising - and unhelpful .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hmm.
A Confucianist says "you're all wrong, and you need to study Confucianism".
A Chinese scholar insists that China is the center of the world.
Someone from country A says "you country B folk can't see past your bias!
" and then goes on a spiel deeply infused with country A bias.All of this is unsurprising - and unhelpful.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251663</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28252041</id>
	<title>Re:AS IF!!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244481360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I'd expect to be preinstalled and 90\% of people uninstall it after the first boot.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'd expect to be preinstalled and 90 \ % of people uninstall it after the first boot .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'd expect to be preinstalled and 90\% of people uninstall it after the first boot.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249955</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28253511</id>
	<title>not necessarily bad</title>
	<author>speedtux</author>
	<datestamp>1244488020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The mandate is that the software is provided free with the system, not that users actually use it.  It doesn't even have to be pre-installed, it's OK to have it provided on a CD.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The mandate is that the software is provided free with the system , not that users actually use it .
It does n't even have to be pre-installed , it 's OK to have it provided on a CD .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The mandate is that the software is provided free with the system, not that users actually use it.
It doesn't even have to be pre-installed, it's OK to have it provided on a CD.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251663</id>
	<title>Re:Can't be expected to change much</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244479200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country.</p></div><p>The following is from a book called <i>Understanding This Chinese Generation</i>, by Nan Huaijin, a very famous Confucian scholar and Buddhist master in China. Not only does it discuss this subject of American-style democracy being wrong for Chinese culture, but it also exposes a keen understanding of the U.S. government's inseparable ties to powerful economic forces. Intelligent and educated Chinese actually have a very sober view of the American system that is difficult to get from within it. This book was written years ago as well, so it is all the more impressive and prescient. We seldom hear the views of educated and intelligent Chinese, so<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/.'ers would do well to read this and understand his perspective.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Four years back I had a series of conversations with an American graduate student studying in China. Our discussions, which he transcribed and planned on translating into English, focused on issues relating to Western and Chinese culture. On one occasion, when the issue of freedom and democracy came up, I remarked, "In our modern era America alone carries the flag of Western cultural glory, championing democracy and freedom. But what Americans like to call democracy and freedom is actually the 'American style of democracy and freedom.' Although this style is by no means suitable for most other people and places, it is especially inappropriate for the five thousand year old culture of China. However, not only do Americans not understand this fact, but you also refuse to even consider its possibility. So your good intentions and American style of democracy and freedom are matched by an equally powerful response of antipathy wherever they turn up."</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>"What exactly do you mean when you say the American style of democracy and freedom," he asked. I replied, "The answer requires quite a complex discussion of two hundred years of contributing factors, from the founding of your country to the present. To summarize though, from the eighteenth century to the present, as America's forefathers flocked to the New World, they carried with them the culture of the European industrial revolution. However, coming from many different countries such as England, France, Germany, and Austria they carried with them the unique cultural perspectives of their individual ethnic backgrounds. These perspectives, combined with an ideological inclination toward the promotion of the general welfare, helped form the spiritual foundation of your nation &#226;" 'of the people, by the people, and for the people.' However, regardless of what shape it assumes, hiding in the framework of liberalism and democracy has been the secret ingredient of the market forces that drive industry and commerce. This was true at the birth of your nation, and after two hundred years remains true to this very day. To be honest, the behind-the-scenes bosses who actually manage your democratic politics are inseparable from the capitalist and commercial industrial complex which surrounds them. Yes its true! Even today, America's territorial ambitions abroad have been quite limited. However, the same thing cannot be said of your desire to occupy foreign markets. This hidden agenda, when added to the tangle of your democratic politics and an unsophisticated provincial populace, has resulted in hesitation, inconsistency, and fence-sitting on the international scene. If you really want to live up to your superpower status, you must combine your international political experience with an in-depth study of the Chinese classic The Spring And Autumn Annals. Only then will you grasp the righteous principle of 'restoring the nation and insuring its posterity.'" Having returned home, today this American colleague has begun teaching The Spring and Autumn Annals and its related commentaries at Harvard University.</p></div><p>There is also an interesting passage about western perceptions of China, and about the relationship that exists between classical Chinese culture and the "communist" ideals of modern Chinese culture.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Four years ago, a certain American professor of sociology on summer vacation was visiting the Orient. Because he had read an English translation of my book The Unique Problem of Chinese Society, he made special arrangements to have an interview with me.</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>At one point during our conversation, he commented, "Throughout history, China has gone through many periods of near national destruction. However, not only were her people and culture not destroyed, but instead, after each historical disaster, she has returned more resilient and radiant than ever. I don't believe there is a similar example of this in Western history; what is the source of this strength?" Offering a clear and concise answer, I replied, "It is the power of cultural unity."</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>Although his pen did not once stop as he listened to my reply, his expression seemed full of doubt. Not waiting for the next question, I stated, "During the Spring and Autumn and Warring States periods, we were actually just like Europe, with numerous feudal states of all sizes, each with its own written and spoken languages, economies, and forms of exchange. However, with the implementation of the 'standardization of language and transportation' during the Chin and Han periods, not only was the political system integrated, but also in the process Chinese culture itself was unified. Of course, over the next two millennia, isolated by great distances, her regional dialects, customs, and habits were able to develop and maintain their own individual linguistic characteristics. However, China's written language and cultural ideology have remained entirely consistent, even becoming widely adopted in Asian countries such as Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. So, while China has endured generation after generation of political upheaval, the unity of her national culture even in the face of historic change has remained irreversible. If in its classical period, the written language and culture of Western Europe had been integrated, then it would resemble China, and the West and its history would not be what they are today. It can also be concluded that it is precisely this different cultural and historical background, with its diversity of viewpoints, which led to the advances of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries and the eventual rise of modern American power. The cultural tradition of our spiritual, Confucian, and Taoist ideologies, however, all demand unity and order."</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>Eventually he touched on the concept of "the great unity" as detailed in the chapter on the "The Evolution of Rites" in the Confucian classic, The Book of Rites, asking, "Isn't it actually true that this traditional Chinese political ideology has much in common with the social ideals of communism?" Hearing this I broke out into uncontrollable laughter, laughing so hard in fact that his expression began to appear very uneasy. After regaining my composure, I said, "I am so sorry. I was really out of line, but your question made me think of your country's so-called China experts. Doesn't it seem reasonable to assume that they hold the same mistaken notions you do?" He said, "I don't know whether the notion is mistaken or not, but it is our opinion and most people agree with it." I then said, "This notion is not only a mistake, but a quite serious one at that.</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>The individual awareness of our humanity is at the core of the sociopolitical ideals contained in 'The Evolution of Rites'. As each of us individually seeks to elevate the morality of his own character, these ideals hold that the perfection of the collective morality of society will naturally follow. The way of the enlightened monarch detailed in The Spring And Autumn Annals, the so-called three ages of peace, order, and prosperity spoken of in The Kung-yang Commentary to the Spring And Autumn Annals, and the Taoist prescription patterned on natural 'non-action' all emerge from this same cultural tradition. As for the ideals of communism, they are simply a means of obtaining the political power necessary for the construction of a communist social system. In a word, this system which demands total acquiescence to the exercise of its power is not only completely devoid of any genuine freedom, but also ignores the cultivation of human virtue. When you equate the ideology of 'the great unity'
with communism, your view is not only flawed, but actually misses the world of difference that exists between the two."</p></div></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country.The following is from a book called Understanding This Chinese Generation , by Nan Huaijin , a very famous Confucian scholar and Buddhist master in China .
Not only does it discuss this subject of American-style democracy being wrong for Chinese culture , but it also exposes a keen understanding of the U.S. government 's inseparable ties to powerful economic forces .
Intelligent and educated Chinese actually have a very sober view of the American system that is difficult to get from within it .
This book was written years ago as well , so it is all the more impressive and prescient .
We seldom hear the views of educated and intelligent Chinese , so / .
'ers would do well to read this and understand his perspective.Four years back I had a series of conversations with an American graduate student studying in China .
Our discussions , which he transcribed and planned on translating into English , focused on issues relating to Western and Chinese culture .
On one occasion , when the issue of freedom and democracy came up , I remarked , " In our modern era America alone carries the flag of Western cultural glory , championing democracy and freedom .
But what Americans like to call democracy and freedom is actually the 'American style of democracy and freedom .
' Although this style is by no means suitable for most other people and places , it is especially inappropriate for the five thousand year old culture of China .
However , not only do Americans not understand this fact , but you also refuse to even consider its possibility .
So your good intentions and American style of democracy and freedom are matched by an equally powerful response of antipathy wherever they turn up .
" " What exactly do you mean when you say the American style of democracy and freedom , " he asked .
I replied , " The answer requires quite a complex discussion of two hundred years of contributing factors , from the founding of your country to the present .
To summarize though , from the eighteenth century to the present , as America 's forefathers flocked to the New World , they carried with them the culture of the European industrial revolution .
However , coming from many different countries such as England , France , Germany , and Austria they carried with them the unique cultural perspectives of their individual ethnic backgrounds .
These perspectives , combined with an ideological inclination toward the promotion of the general welfare , helped form the spiritual foundation of your nation   " 'of the people , by the people , and for the people .
' However , regardless of what shape it assumes , hiding in the framework of liberalism and democracy has been the secret ingredient of the market forces that drive industry and commerce .
This was true at the birth of your nation , and after two hundred years remains true to this very day .
To be honest , the behind-the-scenes bosses who actually manage your democratic politics are inseparable from the capitalist and commercial industrial complex which surrounds them .
Yes its true !
Even today , America 's territorial ambitions abroad have been quite limited .
However , the same thing can not be said of your desire to occupy foreign markets .
This hidden agenda , when added to the tangle of your democratic politics and an unsophisticated provincial populace , has resulted in hesitation , inconsistency , and fence-sitting on the international scene .
If you really want to live up to your superpower status , you must combine your international political experience with an in-depth study of the Chinese classic The Spring And Autumn Annals .
Only then will you grasp the righteous principle of 'restoring the nation and insuring its posterity .
' " Having returned home , today this American colleague has begun teaching The Spring and Autumn Annals and its related commentaries at Harvard University.There is also an interesting passage about western perceptions of China , and about the relationship that exists between classical Chinese culture and the " communist " ideals of modern Chinese culture.Four years ago , a certain American professor of sociology on summer vacation was visiting the Orient .
Because he had read an English translation of my book The Unique Problem of Chinese Society , he made special arrangements to have an interview with me.At one point during our conversation , he commented , " Throughout history , China has gone through many periods of near national destruction .
However , not only were her people and culture not destroyed , but instead , after each historical disaster , she has returned more resilient and radiant than ever .
I do n't believe there is a similar example of this in Western history ; what is the source of this strength ?
" Offering a clear and concise answer , I replied , " It is the power of cultural unity .
" Although his pen did not once stop as he listened to my reply , his expression seemed full of doubt .
Not waiting for the next question , I stated , " During the Spring and Autumn and Warring States periods , we were actually just like Europe , with numerous feudal states of all sizes , each with its own written and spoken languages , economies , and forms of exchange .
However , with the implementation of the 'standardization of language and transportation ' during the Chin and Han periods , not only was the political system integrated , but also in the process Chinese culture itself was unified .
Of course , over the next two millennia , isolated by great distances , her regional dialects , customs , and habits were able to develop and maintain their own individual linguistic characteristics .
However , China 's written language and cultural ideology have remained entirely consistent , even becoming widely adopted in Asian countries such as Japan , Korea , and Vietnam .
So , while China has endured generation after generation of political upheaval , the unity of her national culture even in the face of historic change has remained irreversible .
If in its classical period , the written language and culture of Western Europe had been integrated , then it would resemble China , and the West and its history would not be what they are today .
It can also be concluded that it is precisely this different cultural and historical background , with its diversity of viewpoints , which led to the advances of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries and the eventual rise of modern American power .
The cultural tradition of our spiritual , Confucian , and Taoist ideologies , however , all demand unity and order .
" Eventually he touched on the concept of " the great unity " as detailed in the chapter on the " The Evolution of Rites " in the Confucian classic , The Book of Rites , asking , " Is n't it actually true that this traditional Chinese political ideology has much in common with the social ideals of communism ?
" Hearing this I broke out into uncontrollable laughter , laughing so hard in fact that his expression began to appear very uneasy .
After regaining my composure , I said , " I am so sorry .
I was really out of line , but your question made me think of your country 's so-called China experts .
Does n't it seem reasonable to assume that they hold the same mistaken notions you do ?
" He said , " I do n't know whether the notion is mistaken or not , but it is our opinion and most people agree with it .
" I then said , " This notion is not only a mistake , but a quite serious one at that.The individual awareness of our humanity is at the core of the sociopolitical ideals contained in 'The Evolution of Rites' .
As each of us individually seeks to elevate the morality of his own character , these ideals hold that the perfection of the collective morality of society will naturally follow .
The way of the enlightened monarch detailed in The Spring And Autumn Annals , the so-called three ages of peace , order , and prosperity spoken of in The Kung-yang Commentary to the Spring And Autumn Annals , and the Taoist prescription patterned on natural 'non-action ' all emerge from this same cultural tradition .
As for the ideals of communism , they are simply a means of obtaining the political power necessary for the construction of a communist social system .
In a word , this system which demands total acquiescence to the exercise of its power is not only completely devoid of any genuine freedom , but also ignores the cultivation of human virtue .
When you equate the ideology of 'the great unity ' with communism , your view is not only flawed , but actually misses the world of difference that exists between the two .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country.The following is from a book called Understanding This Chinese Generation, by Nan Huaijin, a very famous Confucian scholar and Buddhist master in China.
Not only does it discuss this subject of American-style democracy being wrong for Chinese culture, but it also exposes a keen understanding of the U.S. government's inseparable ties to powerful economic forces.
Intelligent and educated Chinese actually have a very sober view of the American system that is difficult to get from within it.
This book was written years ago as well, so it is all the more impressive and prescient.
We seldom hear the views of educated and intelligent Chinese, so /.
'ers would do well to read this and understand his perspective.Four years back I had a series of conversations with an American graduate student studying in China.
Our discussions, which he transcribed and planned on translating into English, focused on issues relating to Western and Chinese culture.
On one occasion, when the issue of freedom and democracy came up, I remarked, "In our modern era America alone carries the flag of Western cultural glory, championing democracy and freedom.
But what Americans like to call democracy and freedom is actually the 'American style of democracy and freedom.
' Although this style is by no means suitable for most other people and places, it is especially inappropriate for the five thousand year old culture of China.
However, not only do Americans not understand this fact, but you also refuse to even consider its possibility.
So your good intentions and American style of democracy and freedom are matched by an equally powerful response of antipathy wherever they turn up.
""What exactly do you mean when you say the American style of democracy and freedom," he asked.
I replied, "The answer requires quite a complex discussion of two hundred years of contributing factors, from the founding of your country to the present.
To summarize though, from the eighteenth century to the present, as America's forefathers flocked to the New World, they carried with them the culture of the European industrial revolution.
However, coming from many different countries such as England, France, Germany, and Austria they carried with them the unique cultural perspectives of their individual ethnic backgrounds.
These perspectives, combined with an ideological inclination toward the promotion of the general welfare, helped form the spiritual foundation of your nation â" 'of the people, by the people, and for the people.
' However, regardless of what shape it assumes, hiding in the framework of liberalism and democracy has been the secret ingredient of the market forces that drive industry and commerce.
This was true at the birth of your nation, and after two hundred years remains true to this very day.
To be honest, the behind-the-scenes bosses who actually manage your democratic politics are inseparable from the capitalist and commercial industrial complex which surrounds them.
Yes its true!
Even today, America's territorial ambitions abroad have been quite limited.
However, the same thing cannot be said of your desire to occupy foreign markets.
This hidden agenda, when added to the tangle of your democratic politics and an unsophisticated provincial populace, has resulted in hesitation, inconsistency, and fence-sitting on the international scene.
If you really want to live up to your superpower status, you must combine your international political experience with an in-depth study of the Chinese classic The Spring And Autumn Annals.
Only then will you grasp the righteous principle of 'restoring the nation and insuring its posterity.
'" Having returned home, today this American colleague has begun teaching The Spring and Autumn Annals and its related commentaries at Harvard University.There is also an interesting passage about western perceptions of China, and about the relationship that exists between classical Chinese culture and the "communist" ideals of modern Chinese culture.Four years ago, a certain American professor of sociology on summer vacation was visiting the Orient.
Because he had read an English translation of my book The Unique Problem of Chinese Society, he made special arrangements to have an interview with me.At one point during our conversation, he commented, "Throughout history, China has gone through many periods of near national destruction.
However, not only were her people and culture not destroyed, but instead, after each historical disaster, she has returned more resilient and radiant than ever.
I don't believe there is a similar example of this in Western history; what is the source of this strength?
" Offering a clear and concise answer, I replied, "It is the power of cultural unity.
"Although his pen did not once stop as he listened to my reply, his expression seemed full of doubt.
Not waiting for the next question, I stated, "During the Spring and Autumn and Warring States periods, we were actually just like Europe, with numerous feudal states of all sizes, each with its own written and spoken languages, economies, and forms of exchange.
However, with the implementation of the 'standardization of language and transportation' during the Chin and Han periods, not only was the political system integrated, but also in the process Chinese culture itself was unified.
Of course, over the next two millennia, isolated by great distances, her regional dialects, customs, and habits were able to develop and maintain their own individual linguistic characteristics.
However, China's written language and cultural ideology have remained entirely consistent, even becoming widely adopted in Asian countries such as Japan, Korea, and Vietnam.
So, while China has endured generation after generation of political upheaval, the unity of her national culture even in the face of historic change has remained irreversible.
If in its classical period, the written language and culture of Western Europe had been integrated, then it would resemble China, and the West and its history would not be what they are today.
It can also be concluded that it is precisely this different cultural and historical background, with its diversity of viewpoints, which led to the advances of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries and the eventual rise of modern American power.
The cultural tradition of our spiritual, Confucian, and Taoist ideologies, however, all demand unity and order.
"Eventually he touched on the concept of "the great unity" as detailed in the chapter on the "The Evolution of Rites" in the Confucian classic, The Book of Rites, asking, "Isn't it actually true that this traditional Chinese political ideology has much in common with the social ideals of communism?
" Hearing this I broke out into uncontrollable laughter, laughing so hard in fact that his expression began to appear very uneasy.
After regaining my composure, I said, "I am so sorry.
I was really out of line, but your question made me think of your country's so-called China experts.
Doesn't it seem reasonable to assume that they hold the same mistaken notions you do?
" He said, "I don't know whether the notion is mistaken or not, but it is our opinion and most people agree with it.
" I then said, "This notion is not only a mistake, but a quite serious one at that.The individual awareness of our humanity is at the core of the sociopolitical ideals contained in 'The Evolution of Rites'.
As each of us individually seeks to elevate the morality of his own character, these ideals hold that the perfection of the collective morality of society will naturally follow.
The way of the enlightened monarch detailed in The Spring And Autumn Annals, the so-called three ages of peace, order, and prosperity spoken of in The Kung-yang Commentary to the Spring And Autumn Annals, and the Taoist prescription patterned on natural 'non-action' all emerge from this same cultural tradition.
As for the ideals of communism, they are simply a means of obtaining the political power necessary for the construction of a communist social system.
In a word, this system which demands total acquiescence to the exercise of its power is not only completely devoid of any genuine freedom, but also ignores the cultivation of human virtue.
When you equate the ideology of 'the great unity'
with communism, your view is not only flawed, but actually misses the world of difference that exists between the two.
"
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249575</id>
	<title>More propaganda</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244467560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Maybe it's just me but it seems like there is  around-the-clock negative news coverage of China from western media outlets. When was the last time you read a positive news article about China? I think we feed our people just as much propaganda as the Chinese government does, if not more.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Maybe it 's just me but it seems like there is around-the-clock negative news coverage of China from western media outlets .
When was the last time you read a positive news article about China ?
I think we feed our people just as much propaganda as the Chinese government does , if not more .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Maybe it's just me but it seems like there is  around-the-clock negative news coverage of China from western media outlets.
When was the last time you read a positive news article about China?
I think we feed our people just as much propaganda as the Chinese government does, if not more.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251685</id>
	<title>Re:Kind of disturbing...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244479320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are, or they won't let us borrow anymore money?</i></p><p>Can't say I can really see the motivation here. The Chinese government is interested in controlling the information its citizens get, to ensure it continues to control the country without challenge. It doesn't have any real interest in controlling what US citizens see or read.</p><p>Anyhow, just supposing a US goverment was foolish enough to accede to such a request and force all ISPs to block some (say) anti-Chinese govt websites - do you really think no one would leak the order, and even if they didn't, that no-one would notice the blocking? And what do you think whould happen electorally to a US goverment which was found to be taking such orders from its Chinese 'masters'?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are , or they wo n't let us borrow anymore money ? Ca n't say I can really see the motivation here .
The Chinese government is interested in controlling the information its citizens get , to ensure it continues to control the country without challenge .
It does n't have any real interest in controlling what US citizens see or read.Anyhow , just supposing a US goverment was foolish enough to accede to such a request and force all ISPs to block some ( say ) anti-Chinese govt websites - do you really think no one would leak the order , and even if they did n't , that no-one would notice the blocking ?
And what do you think whould happen electorally to a US goverment which was found to be taking such orders from its Chinese 'masters ' ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What would the US government do if the Chinese government demanded we censor our internet the same way they are, or they won't let us borrow anymore money?Can't say I can really see the motivation here.
The Chinese government is interested in controlling the information its citizens get, to ensure it continues to control the country without challenge.
It doesn't have any real interest in controlling what US citizens see or read.Anyhow, just supposing a US goverment was foolish enough to accede to such a request and force all ISPs to block some (say) anti-Chinese govt websites - do you really think no one would leak the order, and even if they didn't, that no-one would notice the blocking?
And what do you think whould happen electorally to a US goverment which was found to be taking such orders from its Chinese 'masters'?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249623</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28253473</id>
	<title>Cui bono</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244487780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Often the very Chinese you think would be rebelling against measures like this--people who read foreign news and travel or even reside abroad--think it necessary for the health of their country. Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country.</p></div><p>Why would I expect the privileged class to rock the boat? They're the ones who benefit from the status quo, not the hundreds of millions of rural poor or the conquered peoples who never wanted anything to do with Beijing.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Often the very Chinese you think would be rebelling against measures like this--people who read foreign news and travel or even reside abroad--think it necessary for the health of their country .
Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country.Why would I expect the privileged class to rock the boat ?
They 're the ones who benefit from the status quo , not the hundreds of millions of rural poor or the conquered peoples who never wanted anything to do with Beijing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Often the very Chinese you think would be rebelling against measures like this--people who read foreign news and travel or even reside abroad--think it necessary for the health of their country.
Moments like this do lead one to question if American notions of freedom are truly applicable to every country.Why would I expect the privileged class to rock the boat?
They're the ones who benefit from the status quo, not the hundreds of millions of rural poor or the conquered peoples who never wanted anything to do with Beijing.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250825</id>
	<title>Re:Fight communist tyranny and opression</title>
	<author>Darkness404</author>
	<datestamp>1244475060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Hope you were trying to get a +5 funny mod, but seriously how many PCs do we ship to China? Heck, how many American companies really sell PCs? You have Dell and HP and thats about it. I don't think the average Chinese person is on a Dell or HP computer, plus where do you think all the components are made? China. Its trvial to put together a computer whenever you have a CPU, HD, Motherboard, all the cables, RAM, Case, PSU, etc. right there. <br> <br>

Plus, despite what you might think, even the Chinese people who have come to the US to study, can get around censorship, etc. Think that its necessary to have a authoritarian government to continue the growth of China. Sure, it would be good if China became free, but many Chinese are opposed to the idea both because of brainwashing by a party-controlled media and the recent success in China economic wise while the "free world" is suffering a major economic meltdown.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Hope you were trying to get a + 5 funny mod , but seriously how many PCs do we ship to China ?
Heck , how many American companies really sell PCs ?
You have Dell and HP and thats about it .
I do n't think the average Chinese person is on a Dell or HP computer , plus where do you think all the components are made ?
China. Its trvial to put together a computer whenever you have a CPU , HD , Motherboard , all the cables , RAM , Case , PSU , etc .
right there .
Plus , despite what you might think , even the Chinese people who have come to the US to study , can get around censorship , etc .
Think that its necessary to have a authoritarian government to continue the growth of China .
Sure , it would be good if China became free , but many Chinese are opposed to the idea both because of brainwashing by a party-controlled media and the recent success in China economic wise while the " free world " is suffering a major economic meltdown .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hope you were trying to get a +5 funny mod, but seriously how many PCs do we ship to China?
Heck, how many American companies really sell PCs?
You have Dell and HP and thats about it.
I don't think the average Chinese person is on a Dell or HP computer, plus where do you think all the components are made?
China. Its trvial to put together a computer whenever you have a CPU, HD, Motherboard, all the cables, RAM, Case, PSU, etc.
right there.
Plus, despite what you might think, even the Chinese people who have come to the US to study, can get around censorship, etc.
Think that its necessary to have a authoritarian government to continue the growth of China.
Sure, it would be good if China became free, but many Chinese are opposed to the idea both because of brainwashing by a party-controlled media and the recent success in China economic wise while the "free world" is suffering a major economic meltdown.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250073</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251719</id>
	<title>Re:AS IF!!!!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244479500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Indeed; this is a requirement to SUPPLY filtering software, not to actually USE it.  Very few people outside of China would volunteer to be censored, but the Chinese might not be so quick to resist.  I can see how parents might voluntarily add such a thing from the handy CD for a computer to be used primarily by children.  But otherwise, forget it.  Enforcement is absolutely impossible.</p><p>Any censorship that the government truly cares about is never going to rely on the individual PC.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Indeed ; this is a requirement to SUPPLY filtering software , not to actually USE it .
Very few people outside of China would volunteer to be censored , but the Chinese might not be so quick to resist .
I can see how parents might voluntarily add such a thing from the handy CD for a computer to be used primarily by children .
But otherwise , forget it .
Enforcement is absolutely impossible.Any censorship that the government truly cares about is never going to rely on the individual PC .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Indeed; this is a requirement to SUPPLY filtering software, not to actually USE it.
Very few people outside of China would volunteer to be censored, but the Chinese might not be so quick to resist.
I can see how parents might voluntarily add such a thing from the handy CD for a computer to be used primarily by children.
But otherwise, forget it.
Enforcement is absolutely impossible.Any censorship that the government truly cares about is never going to rely on the individual PC.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249955</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28253209</id>
	<title>"The worst tyrannies...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244486400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"... were the ones where a government required its own logic on every embedded node."</p><p>-- Vernor Vinge.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" ... were the ones where a government required its own logic on every embedded node .
" -- Vernor Vinge .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"... were the ones where a government required its own logic on every embedded node.
"-- Vernor Vinge.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249503</id>
	<title>Old news</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244467020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>This was news back in 1984.</htmltext>
<tokenext>This was news back in 1984 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This was news back in 1984.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28253121</id>
	<title>My kids would disown me for getting it wrong...</title>
	<author>Phizzle</author>
	<datestamp>1244485860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It was definitely Inigos line - you can youtube it, he even pronounced "word" as "whord", like Stewie pronounces "Cool Whip".</htmltext>
<tokenext>It was definitely Inigos line - you can youtube it , he even pronounced " word " as " whord " , like Stewie pronounces " Cool Whip " .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It was definitely Inigos line - you can youtube it, he even pronounced "word" as "whord", like Stewie pronounces "Cool Whip".</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28259095</id>
	<title>Re:Count down to a hack around it in...</title>
	<author>Kaiwen</author>
	<datestamp>1244467200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>"I would be curious what the general opinion would be if they were guaranteed equal stability with either form of government."

<p>And how do you guarantee <i>that</i>? Having lived in numerous countries around the world, I'd argue that, if stability is your meter-stick, authoritarian regimes win hands down. By far the most unstable countries I've lived in -- democracies all -- were in central Africa; in Zaire, for example, the people lived in abject terror of the military. I'm personally of the opinion that stable democracies are in the minority, and that the US owes <i>its</i> stability far more to the balance of powers than to democracy per se. Absent that, democracies are easy prey to anyone who manages to amass enough power. Hardly a month goes by you don't hear yet another story of fraudulent elections, e.g.

</p><p>Currently, I live in Shanghai, where I find life on a daily basis nearly indistinguishable from the States: I get up, go to work, collect my paycheck; I have all the usual amenities at my fingertips -- movies, good restaurants, excellent parks and recreational facilities, etc. And at that level, issues such as democracy and censorship tend to fade into the bleary realm of principle. With most Chinese feeling the government performs well, and with a general level of satisfaction in their daily lives, what practical difference does it make that they don't elect their national leaders, or that I can't get to Youtube?

</p><p>Vis-a-vis the government, the only significant attitudinal difference I've noticed is that the Chinese feel a bit more detached from theirs. As much as Americans like to diss their own government, it's generally one of the first places they turn to for help -- the US has government hotlines for everything -- and they expect to get it. Chinese tend to be a bit more pessimistic about such things. But then, so were Zairians.

</p><p>Lee Kaiwen,
Shanghai, China</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" I would be curious what the general opinion would be if they were guaranteed equal stability with either form of government .
" And how do you guarantee that ?
Having lived in numerous countries around the world , I 'd argue that , if stability is your meter-stick , authoritarian regimes win hands down .
By far the most unstable countries I 've lived in -- democracies all -- were in central Africa ; in Zaire , for example , the people lived in abject terror of the military .
I 'm personally of the opinion that stable democracies are in the minority , and that the US owes its stability far more to the balance of powers than to democracy per se .
Absent that , democracies are easy prey to anyone who manages to amass enough power .
Hardly a month goes by you do n't hear yet another story of fraudulent elections , e.g .
Currently , I live in Shanghai , where I find life on a daily basis nearly indistinguishable from the States : I get up , go to work , collect my paycheck ; I have all the usual amenities at my fingertips -- movies , good restaurants , excellent parks and recreational facilities , etc .
And at that level , issues such as democracy and censorship tend to fade into the bleary realm of principle .
With most Chinese feeling the government performs well , and with a general level of satisfaction in their daily lives , what practical difference does it make that they do n't elect their national leaders , or that I ca n't get to Youtube ?
Vis-a-vis the government , the only significant attitudinal difference I 've noticed is that the Chinese feel a bit more detached from theirs .
As much as Americans like to diss their own government , it 's generally one of the first places they turn to for help -- the US has government hotlines for everything -- and they expect to get it .
Chinese tend to be a bit more pessimistic about such things .
But then , so were Zairians .
Lee Kaiwen , Shanghai , China</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"I would be curious what the general opinion would be if they were guaranteed equal stability with either form of government.
"

And how do you guarantee that?
Having lived in numerous countries around the world, I'd argue that, if stability is your meter-stick, authoritarian regimes win hands down.
By far the most unstable countries I've lived in -- democracies all -- were in central Africa; in Zaire, for example, the people lived in abject terror of the military.
I'm personally of the opinion that stable democracies are in the minority, and that the US owes its stability far more to the balance of powers than to democracy per se.
Absent that, democracies are easy prey to anyone who manages to amass enough power.
Hardly a month goes by you don't hear yet another story of fraudulent elections, e.g.
Currently, I live in Shanghai, where I find life on a daily basis nearly indistinguishable from the States: I get up, go to work, collect my paycheck; I have all the usual amenities at my fingertips -- movies, good restaurants, excellent parks and recreational facilities, etc.
And at that level, issues such as democracy and censorship tend to fade into the bleary realm of principle.
With most Chinese feeling the government performs well, and with a general level of satisfaction in their daily lives, what practical difference does it make that they don't elect their national leaders, or that I can't get to Youtube?
Vis-a-vis the government, the only significant attitudinal difference I've noticed is that the Chinese feel a bit more detached from theirs.
As much as Americans like to diss their own government, it's generally one of the first places they turn to for help -- the US has government hotlines for everything -- and they expect to get it.
Chinese tend to be a bit more pessimistic about such things.
But then, so were Zairians.
Lee Kaiwen,
Shanghai, China</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251219</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250181</id>
	<title>Doesn't quite work like that</title>
	<author>Sycraft-fu</author>
	<datestamp>1244471700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You have to understand that at the level of nations, money doesn't work the same way as it does on an individual level. A more accurate statement is that the US is selling securities to China, not that China is lending money to the US. While there are similarities, there are differences too.</p><p>One difference is that the US will sell securities to anyone interested, they are sold on an open market. It isn't a case of them going to China and saying "Please buy our treasury notes." Rather the notes are offered for sale, and anyone who wants them can buy them.</p><p>So, what happens if China stops buying? Well then the government is going to have to raise interest rates on their securities to keep them moving. The higher the interest the, well higher the amount of interested parties. That would mean the US would have to pay out more money ultimately, but it isn't as though it isn't a legit option. China isn't the only buyer out there, they aren't even the biggest buyer (the US government itself holds the most government debt almost 50\%, US mutual funds follow after that is China). So while the loss of China as a buyer would necessitate either selling less (meaning cutting spending or raising taxes) or increasing the yield, it wouldn't lead to the securities stopping.</p><p>Then you have the other factor that these securities only have value because the US government says they do. They are a promise to pay sort of thing. The specifics vary (like if they pay periodic interest or a lump sum) but the general idea is it is just the government saying "We promise to pay you this many US dollars at a given time." That also means the government has the power to not pay. Now doing so arbitrarily would have severe repercussions, however in the event of China attempting to directly force changes in US law, well then it might not. Basically if the US can find a justification that makes the rest of its large note holders (like Japan, who is right after China) happy, then maybe they can freeze or null China's holdings. China attempts to force the US to adopt unconstitutional laws, threatening economic attack, the US responds in kind with an economic attack.</p><p>Thus China can't just take the "You do as I say or I screw you," attitude, because the US has the ability to screw them too. Those securities are good only so long as the US government decides they are.</p><p>Finally there's always the possibility of large scale, possibly hyper, inflation. All the US securities are payable in US dollars. So, the US lacks the dollars to pay? Well they just print more dollars. That again has consequences, see Zimbabwe for what extreme hyperinflation does. However, it is an option if backed in to a corner and more so in the US since the US dollar is the world's reserve currency. This would also screw China over since as there are more dollars out there, each is worth less thus their securities are worth less. If you have a note that pays 5\% per year for 10 years, and there's 20\% per year inflation for those 10 years, you lost a lot of money on that instrument.</p><p>What I'm getting at is that it isn't a simple situation. It isn't like you walking to the bank and asking for a loan. The US doesn't go to China begging for cash. China buys US debt for various reasons, not the least of which that so far it has been an extremely safe investment (the US has never defaulted on payment). They might stop buying as much, or buying any, if they feel it doesn't make economic sense, but trying to use it to threaten political change would be a really bad idea. They could easily find themselves with a bunch of worthless paper on their hands.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You have to understand that at the level of nations , money does n't work the same way as it does on an individual level .
A more accurate statement is that the US is selling securities to China , not that China is lending money to the US .
While there are similarities , there are differences too.One difference is that the US will sell securities to anyone interested , they are sold on an open market .
It is n't a case of them going to China and saying " Please buy our treasury notes .
" Rather the notes are offered for sale , and anyone who wants them can buy them.So , what happens if China stops buying ?
Well then the government is going to have to raise interest rates on their securities to keep them moving .
The higher the interest the , well higher the amount of interested parties .
That would mean the US would have to pay out more money ultimately , but it is n't as though it is n't a legit option .
China is n't the only buyer out there , they are n't even the biggest buyer ( the US government itself holds the most government debt almost 50 \ % , US mutual funds follow after that is China ) .
So while the loss of China as a buyer would necessitate either selling less ( meaning cutting spending or raising taxes ) or increasing the yield , it would n't lead to the securities stopping.Then you have the other factor that these securities only have value because the US government says they do .
They are a promise to pay sort of thing .
The specifics vary ( like if they pay periodic interest or a lump sum ) but the general idea is it is just the government saying " We promise to pay you this many US dollars at a given time .
" That also means the government has the power to not pay .
Now doing so arbitrarily would have severe repercussions , however in the event of China attempting to directly force changes in US law , well then it might not .
Basically if the US can find a justification that makes the rest of its large note holders ( like Japan , who is right after China ) happy , then maybe they can freeze or null China 's holdings .
China attempts to force the US to adopt unconstitutional laws , threatening economic attack , the US responds in kind with an economic attack.Thus China ca n't just take the " You do as I say or I screw you , " attitude , because the US has the ability to screw them too .
Those securities are good only so long as the US government decides they are.Finally there 's always the possibility of large scale , possibly hyper , inflation .
All the US securities are payable in US dollars .
So , the US lacks the dollars to pay ?
Well they just print more dollars .
That again has consequences , see Zimbabwe for what extreme hyperinflation does .
However , it is an option if backed in to a corner and more so in the US since the US dollar is the world 's reserve currency .
This would also screw China over since as there are more dollars out there , each is worth less thus their securities are worth less .
If you have a note that pays 5 \ % per year for 10 years , and there 's 20 \ % per year inflation for those 10 years , you lost a lot of money on that instrument.What I 'm getting at is that it is n't a simple situation .
It is n't like you walking to the bank and asking for a loan .
The US does n't go to China begging for cash .
China buys US debt for various reasons , not the least of which that so far it has been an extremely safe investment ( the US has never defaulted on payment ) .
They might stop buying as much , or buying any , if they feel it does n't make economic sense , but trying to use it to threaten political change would be a really bad idea .
They could easily find themselves with a bunch of worthless paper on their hands .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You have to understand that at the level of nations, money doesn't work the same way as it does on an individual level.
A more accurate statement is that the US is selling securities to China, not that China is lending money to the US.
While there are similarities, there are differences too.One difference is that the US will sell securities to anyone interested, they are sold on an open market.
It isn't a case of them going to China and saying "Please buy our treasury notes.
" Rather the notes are offered for sale, and anyone who wants them can buy them.So, what happens if China stops buying?
Well then the government is going to have to raise interest rates on their securities to keep them moving.
The higher the interest the, well higher the amount of interested parties.
That would mean the US would have to pay out more money ultimately, but it isn't as though it isn't a legit option.
China isn't the only buyer out there, they aren't even the biggest buyer (the US government itself holds the most government debt almost 50\%, US mutual funds follow after that is China).
So while the loss of China as a buyer would necessitate either selling less (meaning cutting spending or raising taxes) or increasing the yield, it wouldn't lead to the securities stopping.Then you have the other factor that these securities only have value because the US government says they do.
They are a promise to pay sort of thing.
The specifics vary (like if they pay periodic interest or a lump sum) but the general idea is it is just the government saying "We promise to pay you this many US dollars at a given time.
" That also means the government has the power to not pay.
Now doing so arbitrarily would have severe repercussions, however in the event of China attempting to directly force changes in US law, well then it might not.
Basically if the US can find a justification that makes the rest of its large note holders (like Japan, who is right after China) happy, then maybe they can freeze or null China's holdings.
China attempts to force the US to adopt unconstitutional laws, threatening economic attack, the US responds in kind with an economic attack.Thus China can't just take the "You do as I say or I screw you," attitude, because the US has the ability to screw them too.
Those securities are good only so long as the US government decides they are.Finally there's always the possibility of large scale, possibly hyper, inflation.
All the US securities are payable in US dollars.
So, the US lacks the dollars to pay?
Well they just print more dollars.
That again has consequences, see Zimbabwe for what extreme hyperinflation does.
However, it is an option if backed in to a corner and more so in the US since the US dollar is the world's reserve currency.
This would also screw China over since as there are more dollars out there, each is worth less thus their securities are worth less.
If you have a note that pays 5\% per year for 10 years, and there's 20\% per year inflation for those 10 years, you lost a lot of money on that instrument.What I'm getting at is that it isn't a simple situation.
It isn't like you walking to the bank and asking for a loan.
The US doesn't go to China begging for cash.
China buys US debt for various reasons, not the least of which that so far it has been an extremely safe investment (the US has never defaulted on payment).
They might stop buying as much, or buying any, if they feel it doesn't make economic sense, but trying to use it to threaten political change would be a really bad idea.
They could easily find themselves with a bunch of worthless paper on their hands.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249623</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251625</id>
	<title>Re:Can't be expected to change much</title>
	<author>Pig Hogger</author>
	<datestamp>1244478960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> <em>Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos. </em> </p></div>
</blockquote><p>The chinese have, indeed, a passion for disorganization. The term &quot;clusterfuck&quot;, abbreviated C.F. is actually the politicall-correct version of the original meaning of C.F., which was &quot;chinese firedrill&quot;.</p><p>The current communist r&eacute;gime is fighting very hard to rid China of it's historical demons that made it stagnate for so long (how else a billion people strong nation could be comparatively harmless compared to, say, Isra&euml;l, which for it's absurdly tiny size, has brought about an unprecedented amount of grief and destruction on Earth?), then fell prey to western imperialism, and one such demon is their passion for disorganization...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos .
The chinese have , indeed , a passion for disorganization .
The term " clusterfuck " , abbreviated C.F .
is actually the politicall-correct version of the original meaning of C.F. , which was " chinese firedrill " .The current communist r   gime is fighting very hard to rid China of it 's historical demons that made it stagnate for so long ( how else a billion people strong nation could be comparatively harmless compared to , say , Isra   l , which for it 's absurdly tiny size , has brought about an unprecedented amount of grief and destruction on Earth ?
) , then fell prey to western imperialism , and one such demon is their passion for disorganization.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext> Even much of the Chinese intelligentsia believes that their country needs a brutal government to avoid total chaos.
The chinese have, indeed, a passion for disorganization.
The term "clusterfuck", abbreviated C.F.
is actually the politicall-correct version of the original meaning of C.F., which was "chinese firedrill".The current communist régime is fighting very hard to rid China of it's historical demons that made it stagnate for so long (how else a billion people strong nation could be comparatively harmless compared to, say, Israël, which for it's absurdly tiny size, has brought about an unprecedented amount of grief and destruction on Earth?
), then fell prey to western imperialism, and one such demon is their passion for disorganization...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519</parent>
</comment>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_28</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28259095
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251219
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249751
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249511
</commentlist>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_19</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250849
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250181
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249623
</commentlist>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_18</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28253087
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249491
</commentlist>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_23</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28255097
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249491
</commentlist>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_0</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251287
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_25</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28287641
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</commentlist>
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_17</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28253293
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	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_20</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251453
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_22</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249805
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249571
</commentlist>
</thread>
<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_21</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250553
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249545
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_9</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28255089
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_12</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28255751
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_3</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28255789
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_37</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28255927
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251663
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249519
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_36</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28251685
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249623
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_30</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250745
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249755
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_4</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28252041
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249955
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<thread>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#thread_09_06_08_053230_29</id>
	<commentlist>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28250567
http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_08_053230.28249491
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<thread>
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