<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_06_05_1956211</id>
	<title>First Look At Visual Studio 2010 Beta 1</title>
	<author>ScuttleMonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1244193060000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.infoworld.com/" rel="nofollow">snydeq</a> writes <i>"InfoWorld's Martin Heller takes <a href="http://infoworld.com/d/developer-world/first-look-visual-studio-2010-beta-1-shows-some-leg-876">VS2010 Beta 1 for a test drive</a> and finds the upgrade promising, particularly with regard to improved thread debugging and a revamped UI. But the biggest enhancements have to do with parallel programming, Heller writes. 'I'm not sure that I've completely grasped the power of the new .Net Framework and native C++ support for task and data parallelism in VS2010, but what I've seen so far is impressive.' Heller points to <a href="http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/ParExtSamples">intriguing parallel programming samples</a> posted to CodePlex and offers <a href="http://infoworld.com/d/developer-world/microsoft-visual-studio-2010-highlights-887">numerous screenshots of VS2010 Beta 1 functionality</a>. He also notes that the beta still lacks support for ASP.Net MVC, smart devices, and the .Net Micro Framework."</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>snydeq writes " InfoWorld 's Martin Heller takes VS2010 Beta 1 for a test drive and finds the upgrade promising , particularly with regard to improved thread debugging and a revamped UI .
But the biggest enhancements have to do with parallel programming , Heller writes .
'I 'm not sure that I 've completely grasped the power of the new .Net Framework and native C + + support for task and data parallelism in VS2010 , but what I 've seen so far is impressive .
' Heller points to intriguing parallel programming samples posted to CodePlex and offers numerous screenshots of VS2010 Beta 1 functionality .
He also notes that the beta still lacks support for ASP.Net MVC , smart devices , and the .Net Micro Framework .
"</tokentext>
<sentencetext>snydeq writes "InfoWorld's Martin Heller takes VS2010 Beta 1 for a test drive and finds the upgrade promising, particularly with regard to improved thread debugging and a revamped UI.
But the biggest enhancements have to do with parallel programming, Heller writes.
'I'm not sure that I've completely grasped the power of the new .Net Framework and native C++ support for task and data parallelism in VS2010, but what I've seen so far is impressive.
' Heller points to intriguing parallel programming samples posted to CodePlex and offers numerous screenshots of VS2010 Beta 1 functionality.
He also notes that the beta still lacks support for ASP.Net MVC, smart devices, and the .Net Micro Framework.
"</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228949</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone still using Visual Studio 6?</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1244206260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>VC6, to me, is the '57 Chevy of IDEs; it's out of date, lacking in features, isn't to everyone's tastes, but just keeps on runnin' with a strange magic that Microsoft has never been able to reproduce in its later versions.</p> </div><p>Sufficiently advanced magic is not easily reproducible, even by those who have originally made it. ~</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>VC6 , to me , is the '57 Chevy of IDEs ; it 's out of date , lacking in features , is n't to everyone 's tastes , but just keeps on runnin ' with a strange magic that Microsoft has never been able to reproduce in its later versions .
Sufficiently advanced magic is not easily reproducible , even by those who have originally made it .
~</tokentext>
<sentencetext>VC6, to me, is the '57 Chevy of IDEs; it's out of date, lacking in features, isn't to everyone's tastes, but just keeps on runnin' with a strange magic that Microsoft has never been able to reproduce in its later versions.
Sufficiently advanced magic is not easily reproducible, even by those who have originally made it.
~
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228105</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229289</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone still using Visual Studio 6?</title>
	<author>EastCoastSurfer</author>
	<datestamp>1244211120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Where I work we have 2 small file processing apps that were written in VB6.  They are slated to be converted/upgraded/made obsolete at some point, but new features keep taking precedence over changing the 2 working apps.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Where I work we have 2 small file processing apps that were written in VB6 .
They are slated to be converted/upgraded/made obsolete at some point , but new features keep taking precedence over changing the 2 working apps .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Where I work we have 2 small file processing apps that were written in VB6.
They are slated to be converted/upgraded/made obsolete at some point, but new features keep taking precedence over changing the 2 working apps.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228105</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228667</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>AceMarkE</author>
	<datestamp>1244203860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, I think the Eclipse CDT plugin provides some amount of C++ refactoring.  I know it can at least do some simple variable renaming, since I did that the other day.  Not sure how much it can do beyond that, though.</p><p>Other than that, yeah, automated refactoring is just going to be much harder for C++ than for most other languages.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , I think the Eclipse CDT plugin provides some amount of C + + refactoring .
I know it can at least do some simple variable renaming , since I did that the other day .
Not sure how much it can do beyond that , though.Other than that , yeah , automated refactoring is just going to be much harder for C + + than for most other languages .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, I think the Eclipse CDT plugin provides some amount of C++ refactoring.
I know it can at least do some simple variable renaming, since I did that the other day.
Not sure how much it can do beyond that, though.Other than that, yeah, automated refactoring is just going to be much harder for C++ than for most other languages.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228109</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227647</id>
	<title>oh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244196960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>He also notes that the beta still lacks support for ASP.Net MVC, smart devices, and the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net Micro Framework.</p></div><p>
<b>So what does it do then, exactly??</b></p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He also notes that the beta still lacks support for ASP.Net MVC , smart devices , and the .Net Micro Framework .
So what does it do then , exactly ?
?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He also notes that the beta still lacks support for ASP.Net MVC, smart devices, and the .Net Micro Framework.
So what does it do then, exactly?
?
	</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229409</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244212860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I still mostly use Visual Studio 6.0 even though I have VS 2005 on my system.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I still mostly use Visual Studio 6.0 even though I have VS 2005 on my system .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I still mostly use Visual Studio 6.0 even though I have VS 2005 on my system.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228401</id>
	<title>Top 3 features</title>
	<author>alphabetsoup</author>
	<datestamp>1244201940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Quite a bit actually. Personally for me, the top 3 features are:</p><ul>
<li>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F\_Sharp\_programming\_language" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">F#</a> [wikipedia.org] - Finally a functional programming language with a real chance of becoming mainstream. I personally would have liked Haskell though<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</li>
<li>
<a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dd434652.aspx" title="microsoft.com" rel="nofollow">Parallel Patterns Library</a> [microsoft.com] - An STL like library for doing parallel computation. For example, instead of the STL for\_each you can use the PPL parallel\_for\_each. Combine this with lambda functions for best results.</li>
<li>
C++0x goodies - These includes <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2008/10/28/lambdas-auto-and-static-assert-c-0x-features-in-vc10-part-1.aspx" title="msdn.com" rel="nofollow">lambdas, auto,</a> [msdn.com] <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/02/03/rvalue-references-c-0x-features-in-vc10-part-2.aspx" title="msdn.com" rel="nofollow">rvalue references,</a> [msdn.com] etc.</li>
</ul><p>Apart from the above it includes a completely <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/05/27/rebuilding-intellisense.aspx" title="msdn.com" rel="nofollow">new intellisense</a> [msdn.com] for C++, using the EDG frontend. All this in addition to the usual<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net stuff.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Quite a bit actually .
Personally for me , the top 3 features are : F # [ wikipedia.org ] - Finally a functional programming language with a real chance of becoming mainstream .
I personally would have liked Haskell though : ( Parallel Patterns Library [ microsoft.com ] - An STL like library for doing parallel computation .
For example , instead of the STL for \ _each you can use the PPL parallel \ _for \ _each .
Combine this with lambda functions for best results .
C + + 0x goodies - These includes lambdas , auto , [ msdn.com ] rvalue references , [ msdn.com ] etc .
Apart from the above it includes a completely new intellisense [ msdn.com ] for C + + , using the EDG frontend .
All this in addition to the usual .Net stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Quite a bit actually.
Personally for me, the top 3 features are:

F# [wikipedia.org] - Finally a functional programming language with a real chance of becoming mainstream.
I personally would have liked Haskell though :(

Parallel Patterns Library [microsoft.com] - An STL like library for doing parallel computation.
For example, instead of the STL for\_each you can use the PPL parallel\_for\_each.
Combine this with lambda functions for best results.
C++0x goodies - These includes lambdas, auto, [msdn.com] rvalue references, [msdn.com] etc.
Apart from the above it includes a completely new intellisense [msdn.com] for C++, using the EDG frontend.
All this in addition to the usual .Net stuff.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227647</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28235241</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>koreaman</author>
	<datestamp>1244318640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My boss is something of a Microsoft fanboy. I run VS2008 on XP at work (doing ASP.NET development).</p><p>Here's hoping VS 2010 will have better support for JavaScript...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My boss is something of a Microsoft fanboy .
I run VS2008 on XP at work ( doing ASP.NET development ) .Here 's hoping VS 2010 will have better support for JavaScript.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My boss is something of a Microsoft fanboy.
I run VS2008 on XP at work (doing ASP.NET development).Here's hoping VS 2010 will have better support for JavaScript...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28235629</id>
	<title>Re:F# is interesting, but it's not free</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1244320860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Knowing that F# came out of Microsoft Research and that some other<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET code has been released as free software by Microsoft in the past, I was hoping that the F# compiler would be free software too. Sadly this is not the case - at least as far as the licence in fsharp.zip here is concerned; it's distributable for non-commercial use only. So while F# looks very interesting, for now it's something of a Microsoft lock-in, and I won't be adopting it because it removes the possibility of porting to Mono.</p></div><p>Don Syme <a href="http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.fsharp.general/1000" title="gmane.org">said</a> [gmane.org], and more recently <a href="http://cs.hubfs.net/forums/permalink/10464/10483/ShowThread.aspx#10483" title="hubfs.net">confirmed</a> [hubfs.net], that F# will be released under <a href="http://opensource.org/licenses/ms-pl.html" title="opensource.org">MS-PL</a> [opensource.org] (effectively a BSDL with patent clause) for the VS2010 release - it's only "shared source" currently because it is still in beta.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Knowing that F # came out of Microsoft Research and that some other .NET code has been released as free software by Microsoft in the past , I was hoping that the F # compiler would be free software too .
Sadly this is not the case - at least as far as the licence in fsharp.zip here is concerned ; it 's distributable for non-commercial use only .
So while F # looks very interesting , for now it 's something of a Microsoft lock-in , and I wo n't be adopting it because it removes the possibility of porting to Mono.Don Syme said [ gmane.org ] , and more recently confirmed [ hubfs.net ] , that F # will be released under MS-PL [ opensource.org ] ( effectively a BSDL with patent clause ) for the VS2010 release - it 's only " shared source " currently because it is still in beta .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Knowing that F# came out of Microsoft Research and that some other .NET code has been released as free software by Microsoft in the past, I was hoping that the F# compiler would be free software too.
Sadly this is not the case - at least as far as the licence in fsharp.zip here is concerned; it's distributable for non-commercial use only.
So while F# looks very interesting, for now it's something of a Microsoft lock-in, and I won't be adopting it because it removes the possibility of porting to Mono.Don Syme said [gmane.org], and more recently confirmed [hubfs.net], that F# will be released under MS-PL [opensource.org] (effectively a BSDL with patent clause) for the VS2010 release - it's only "shared source" currently because it is still in beta.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28231617</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228453</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>hviniciusg</author>
	<datestamp>1244202300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes i do, and i'm loving it.</p><p>specially Linq.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes i do , and i 'm loving it.specially Linq .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes i do, and i'm loving it.specially Linq.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28231165</id>
	<title>Re:native ANSI C/C++ support ....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244281980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>If you can do it faster and for less RAM in a different language then you owe your users to do so.</p></div></blockquote><p>4GB (yes Gigabyte) will cost you $75 nowadays. If you let your choice of language be determined by 30MB extra memory usage, you're optimizing the wrong variable (unless you're targetting a memory constricted environment of course). Better select the language that  lets you write code the quickest. Considering the lack of refactoring support for C++ mentioned in other posts, I'd say C# should be a lot faster to write code for.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you can do it faster and for less RAM in a different language then you owe your users to do so.4GB ( yes Gigabyte ) will cost you $ 75 nowadays .
If you let your choice of language be determined by 30MB extra memory usage , you 're optimizing the wrong variable ( unless you 're targetting a memory constricted environment of course ) .
Better select the language that lets you write code the quickest .
Considering the lack of refactoring support for C + + mentioned in other posts , I 'd say C # should be a lot faster to write code for .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you can do it faster and for less RAM in a different language then you owe your users to do so.4GB (yes Gigabyte) will cost you $75 nowadays.
If you let your choice of language be determined by 30MB extra memory usage, you're optimizing the wrong variable (unless you're targetting a memory constricted environment of course).
Better select the language that  lets you write code the quickest.
Considering the lack of refactoring support for C++ mentioned in other posts, I'd say C# should be a lot faster to write code for.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227953</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1244198940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>We run it at work. It is pretty much the same as VS 2005.</p></div><p>If you use it for C++ development, then the C++ compiler in 2008 has better standard compliance, and some <a href="https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=319580" title="microsoft.com">nasty bugs</a> [microsoft.com] in the libraries are fixed. Also, VS2008 SP1 adds C++ TR1 stuff.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>We run it at work .
It is pretty much the same as VS 2005.If you use it for C + + development , then the C + + compiler in 2008 has better standard compliance , and some nasty bugs [ microsoft.com ] in the libraries are fixed .
Also , VS2008 SP1 adds C + + TR1 stuff .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We run it at work.
It is pretty much the same as VS 2005.If you use it for C++ development, then the C++ compiler in 2008 has better standard compliance, and some nasty bugs [microsoft.com] in the libraries are fixed.
Also, VS2008 SP1 adds C++ TR1 stuff.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227839</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28230451</id>
	<title>Main competitor KDevelop 4.0 Beta3 released!</title>
	<author>G3ckoG33k</author>
	<datestamp>1244227560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Main competitor KDevelop 4.0 Beta3 released! Read more at <a href="http://www.kdevelop.org/" title="kdevelop.org">http://www.kdevelop.org/</a> [kdevelop.org]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Main competitor KDevelop 4.0 Beta3 released !
Read more at http : //www.kdevelop.org/ [ kdevelop.org ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Main competitor KDevelop 4.0 Beta3 released!
Read more at http://www.kdevelop.org/ [kdevelop.org]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28232213</id>
	<title>Re:Not just parallel</title>
	<author>zerojoker</author>
	<datestamp>1244298180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>As someone who is currently doing academic programming in Ocaml, I can only agree and stress the significance of adding F#. Microsoft is actively pushing functional programming into the industry.
<br>
Sure, I don't expect that it will reach the popularity of C# of VB.net, but coming from Ocaml, it's just fantastic:
<br> <br>
- finally a proper IDE with code completion and just... a \_real\_ IDE (sorry, but emacs + tuareg-mode is no comparison)
<br> <br>
- finally a usable debugger. The gdb-like thing deployed with ocaml is just a joke
<br> <br>
- proper documentation. I really have to credit Microsoft here for providing excellent documentation, even encouraging or paying capable authors to write a book</htmltext>
<tokenext>As someone who is currently doing academic programming in Ocaml , I can only agree and stress the significance of adding F # .
Microsoft is actively pushing functional programming into the industry .
Sure , I do n't expect that it will reach the popularity of C # of VB.net , but coming from Ocaml , it 's just fantastic : - finally a proper IDE with code completion and just... a \ _real \ _ IDE ( sorry , but emacs + tuareg-mode is no comparison ) - finally a usable debugger .
The gdb-like thing deployed with ocaml is just a joke - proper documentation .
I really have to credit Microsoft here for providing excellent documentation , even encouraging or paying capable authors to write a book</tokentext>
<sentencetext>As someone who is currently doing academic programming in Ocaml, I can only agree and stress the significance of adding F#.
Microsoft is actively pushing functional programming into the industry.
Sure, I don't expect that it will reach the popularity of C# of VB.net, but coming from Ocaml, it's just fantastic:
 
- finally a proper IDE with code completion and just... a \_real\_ IDE (sorry, but emacs + tuareg-mode is no comparison)
 
- finally a usable debugger.
The gdb-like thing deployed with ocaml is just a joke
 
- proper documentation.
I really have to credit Microsoft here for providing excellent documentation, even encouraging or paying capable authors to write a book</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227885</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227809</id>
	<title>Themes</title>
	<author>wzinc</author>
	<datestamp>1244197920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Whenever MS apps get themes, Office 2k7 for example, they get slower. I'll admit VS 2k10 does look nicer, it really does, but even my Core i7 with cheetah blood thermal compound sits there drawing slow UI. MS, please use native widgets, allow us to disable theming, or whatever it takes to make it go as fast as 2k8.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Whenever MS apps get themes , Office 2k7 for example , they get slower .
I 'll admit VS 2k10 does look nicer , it really does , but even my Core i7 with cheetah blood thermal compound sits there drawing slow UI .
MS , please use native widgets , allow us to disable theming , or whatever it takes to make it go as fast as 2k8 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Whenever MS apps get themes, Office 2k7 for example, they get slower.
I'll admit VS 2k10 does look nicer, it really does, but even my Core i7 with cheetah blood thermal compound sits there drawing slow UI.
MS, please use native widgets, allow us to disable theming, or whatever it takes to make it go as fast as 2k8.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229953</id>
	<title>Re:Themes</title>
	<author>IICV</author>
	<datestamp>1244220480000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>I'll admit VS 2k10 does look nicer, it really does, but even my Core i7 with <b>cheetah blood thermal compound</b> sits there drawing slow UI.</p></div></blockquote><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>... what.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>I 'll admit VS 2k10 does look nicer , it really does , but even my Core i7 with cheetah blood thermal compound sits there drawing slow UI .
... what .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I'll admit VS 2k10 does look nicer, it really does, but even my Core i7 with cheetah blood thermal compound sits there drawing slow UI.
... what.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227809</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227685</id>
	<title>Re:oh</title>
	<author>VeNoM0619</author>
	<datestamp>1244197200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>So what does it do then, exactly??</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>But the biggest enhancements have to do with parallel programming,</p> </div><p>It means: developers, developers, developers, developers.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>So what does it do then , exactly ?
? But the biggest enhancements have to do with parallel programming , It means : developers , developers , developers , developers .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So what does it do then, exactly?
?But the biggest enhancements have to do with parallel programming, It means: developers, developers, developers, developers.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227647</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229967</id>
	<title>Does it work for C++?</title>
	<author>david\_thornley</author>
	<datestamp>1244220780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
I tried it out with one of the smaller C++ projects we've got at work, and I couldn't get it either to compile or put out useful error messages.  I had a similar problem with a C# project.  I'm particularly interested in C++.  Has anybody gotten it to work converting a VS 2008 project?
</p><p>
One blogger noted that it wouldn't compile the standard "Hello, world!" program without fiddling with the properties.  Apparently, it didn't like having a main() function, and wanted something like \_tmain().  That should be fixed by the next available version.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I tried it out with one of the smaller C + + projects we 've got at work , and I could n't get it either to compile or put out useful error messages .
I had a similar problem with a C # project .
I 'm particularly interested in C + + .
Has anybody gotten it to work converting a VS 2008 project ?
One blogger noted that it would n't compile the standard " Hello , world !
" program without fiddling with the properties .
Apparently , it did n't like having a main ( ) function , and wanted something like \ _tmain ( ) .
That should be fixed by the next available version .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
I tried it out with one of the smaller C++ projects we've got at work, and I couldn't get it either to compile or put out useful error messages.
I had a similar problem with a C# project.
I'm particularly interested in C++.
Has anybody gotten it to work converting a VS 2008 project?
One blogger noted that it wouldn't compile the standard "Hello, world!
" program without fiddling with the properties.
Apparently, it didn't like having a main() function, and wanted something like \_tmain().
That should be fixed by the next available version.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229107</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone still using Visual Studio 6?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244208060000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>FWIW, as a consultant, I still have clients who require VC++6, and even VB6.  I have one client that still requires VC++1.52 (for DOS-based industrial control software).</p><p>- T</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>FWIW , as a consultant , I still have clients who require VC + + 6 , and even VB6 .
I have one client that still requires VC + + 1.52 ( for DOS-based industrial control software ) .- T</tokentext>
<sentencetext>FWIW, as a consultant, I still have clients who require VC++6, and even VB6.
I have one client that still requires VC++1.52 (for DOS-based industrial control software).- T</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228105</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227789</id>
	<title>I tried it, not impressed.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244197860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I heavily use both Visual Studio 2005 and 2008, so I was excited to use 2010.  The thing I found most obnoxious about it was the the text in the code editor was blurry at normal font settings (Consolas 10pt).</p><p>Let me restate that.  The text in the primary window of the software that you will be staring at for hours daily... is blurry.</p><p>How on earth did that get past QA?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I heavily use both Visual Studio 2005 and 2008 , so I was excited to use 2010 .
The thing I found most obnoxious about it was the the text in the code editor was blurry at normal font settings ( Consolas 10pt ) .Let me restate that .
The text in the primary window of the software that you will be staring at for hours daily... is blurry.How on earth did that get past QA ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I heavily use both Visual Studio 2005 and 2008, so I was excited to use 2010.
The thing I found most obnoxious about it was the the text in the code editor was blurry at normal font settings (Consolas 10pt).Let me restate that.
The text in the primary window of the software that you will be staring at for hours daily... is blurry.How on earth did that get past QA?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229585</id>
	<title>native ANSI C/C++ support ....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244215080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Doesn't exist in Visual Studio anymore without some tweaks. If your program targets multiple platforms beyond Microsoft your in for a few headaches.</p><p>I wonder if Martin Heller used the VS10 compiler for cross platform Wx/Gtk/Qt development (Check Audacity out). I (or someone) should do this in a future slasdot review.</p><p>The OpenWatcom, g++, and Intel compilers are a much better solution if your targeting multiple platforms (ARM, Mac, Power5, Mainframes, cellphones etc.) I use VS6 and GCC, but your mileage may vary.</p><p>I appreciate the fact that Microsoft is pushing for VS studio C#/.Net acceptance. As of today, that solution is just as slow and portable as Java is/was ten years ago. For some strange reason I refuse to write a program that takes twenty to thirty megabytes of RAM to run when it should only take two. Why? Because that RAM belongs to the user and the other programs they may be running, not me. Waste not, want not. If you can do it faster and for less RAM in a different language then you owe your users to do so.</p><p>And no, I've never written a C/C++ program that was un-secure (yet), thanks for asking. And yes, I like C#/Java programming, I just have deployment issues that I've never recovered from.</p><p>My opinion or experiences may not be yours.</p><p>Enjoy,</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Does n't exist in Visual Studio anymore without some tweaks .
If your program targets multiple platforms beyond Microsoft your in for a few headaches.I wonder if Martin Heller used the VS10 compiler for cross platform Wx/Gtk/Qt development ( Check Audacity out ) .
I ( or someone ) should do this in a future slasdot review.The OpenWatcom , g + + , and Intel compilers are a much better solution if your targeting multiple platforms ( ARM , Mac , Power5 , Mainframes , cellphones etc .
) I use VS6 and GCC , but your mileage may vary.I appreciate the fact that Microsoft is pushing for VS studio C # /.Net acceptance .
As of today , that solution is just as slow and portable as Java is/was ten years ago .
For some strange reason I refuse to write a program that takes twenty to thirty megabytes of RAM to run when it should only take two .
Why ? Because that RAM belongs to the user and the other programs they may be running , not me .
Waste not , want not .
If you can do it faster and for less RAM in a different language then you owe your users to do so.And no , I 've never written a C/C + + program that was un-secure ( yet ) , thanks for asking .
And yes , I like C # /Java programming , I just have deployment issues that I 've never recovered from.My opinion or experiences may not be yours.Enjoy,</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Doesn't exist in Visual Studio anymore without some tweaks.
If your program targets multiple platforms beyond Microsoft your in for a few headaches.I wonder if Martin Heller used the VS10 compiler for cross platform Wx/Gtk/Qt development (Check Audacity out).
I (or someone) should do this in a future slasdot review.The OpenWatcom, g++, and Intel compilers are a much better solution if your targeting multiple platforms (ARM, Mac, Power5, Mainframes, cellphones etc.
) I use VS6 and GCC, but your mileage may vary.I appreciate the fact that Microsoft is pushing for VS studio C#/.Net acceptance.
As of today, that solution is just as slow and portable as Java is/was ten years ago.
For some strange reason I refuse to write a program that takes twenty to thirty megabytes of RAM to run when it should only take two.
Why? Because that RAM belongs to the user and the other programs they may be running, not me.
Waste not, want not.
If you can do it faster and for less RAM in a different language then you owe your users to do so.And no, I've never written a C/C++ program that was un-secure (yet), thanks for asking.
And yes, I like C#/Java programming, I just have deployment issues that I've never recovered from.My opinion or experiences may not be yours.Enjoy,</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228085</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244199900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET 3.5 framework is completely accessible with VS 2005. Just add a reference to System.Core to your project. What you're mainly missing by not upgrading to 2008 are compiler features like LINQ (Or rather, the syntactic-sugary syntax for it. Everything that the sugary version gets transformed into is in the framework.) and lambda expressions.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The .NET 3.5 framework is completely accessible with VS 2005 .
Just add a reference to System.Core to your project .
What you 're mainly missing by not upgrading to 2008 are compiler features like LINQ ( Or rather , the syntactic-sugary syntax for it .
Everything that the sugary version gets transformed into is in the framework .
) and lambda expressions .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The .NET 3.5 framework is completely accessible with VS 2005.
Just add a reference to System.Core to your project.
What you're mainly missing by not upgrading to 2008 are compiler features like LINQ (Or rather, the syntactic-sugary syntax for it.
Everything that the sugary version gets transformed into is in the framework.
) and lambda expressions.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227839</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227731</id>
	<title>Re:oh</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244197440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>how fucking original. how about making up some shit about microsoft bob now too.<br> <br>if that's the best you can do you probably wouldn't know what you're reading about anyway.</htmltext>
<tokenext>how fucking original .
how about making up some shit about microsoft bob now too .
if that 's the best you can do you probably would n't know what you 're reading about anyway .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>how fucking original.
how about making up some shit about microsoft bob now too.
if that's the best you can do you probably wouldn't know what you're reading about anyway.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227685</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28230585</id>
	<title>Re:More security?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244229900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Visual Studio would not allow such a thing. For an example, see http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms171823.aspx</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Visual Studio would not allow such a thing .
For an example , see http : //msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms171823.aspx</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Visual Studio would not allow such a thing.
For an example, see http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms171823.aspx</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227853</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28240033</id>
	<title>Re:Whatever.</title>
	<author>RightSaidFred99</author>
	<datestamp>1244370300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>Schmidt349: managing to be wrong twice in a sentence with only 17 words.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Schmidt349 : managing to be wrong twice in a sentence with only 17 words .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Schmidt349: managing to be wrong twice in a sentence with only 17 words.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228523</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28232183</id>
	<title>Re:native ANSI C/C++ support ....</title>
	<author>gbjbaanb</author>
	<datestamp>1244297820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>If you let your choice of language be determined by 30MB extra memory usage, you're optimizing the wrong variable (unless you're targetting a memory constricted environment of course).</i></p><p>Of course I'm targetting a memory-constricted environment. My users run office 2007, and I run Visual Studio with SQL Server Management Studio! I *need* that 3GB.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you let your choice of language be determined by 30MB extra memory usage , you 're optimizing the wrong variable ( unless you 're targetting a memory constricted environment of course ) .Of course I 'm targetting a memory-constricted environment .
My users run office 2007 , and I run Visual Studio with SQL Server Management Studio !
I * need * that 3GB .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you let your choice of language be determined by 30MB extra memory usage, you're optimizing the wrong variable (unless you're targetting a memory constricted environment of course).Of course I'm targetting a memory-constricted environment.
My users run office 2007, and I run Visual Studio with SQL Server Management Studio!
I *need* that 3GB.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28231165</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228109</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1244200020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Visual C++ hasn't changed much since VS 2002.</p> </div><p>Eh? It's got C++/CLI since then, for starters. It has become <em>much</em> closer to ISO C++ (before 2003 it was a total joke, it didn't even get the scope of the <tt>for</tt> loop right - and 2003 was only so-so). It's got checked STL containers &amp; iterators in 2005, and C++TR1 in 2008. And it is getting <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/05/27/rebuilding-intellisense.aspx" title="msdn.com">significantly improved code completion</a> [msdn.com], and <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/06/01/c-gets-squiggles.aspx" title="msdn.com">on-the-fly error checking</a> [msdn.com] in 2010. Doesn't sound "abandoned" to me.</p><p>On the language front, Visual C++ in 2010 gets a bunch of C++0x features: <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2008/10/28/lambdas-auto-and-static-assert-c-0x-features-in-vc10-part-1.aspx" title="msdn.com">lambdas, type inference (<tt>auto</tt>), <tt>static\_assert</tt> </a> [msdn.com], <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/02/03/rvalue-references-c-0x-features-in-vc10-part-2.aspx" title="msdn.com">rvalue references (&amp;&amp;)</a> [msdn.com], and <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/04/22/decltype-c-0x-features-in-vc10-part-3.aspx" title="msdn.com">decltype</a> [msdn.com]. This is quite a lot, and lambdas are especially nice since they actually let you use STL algorithms as God intended without writing tons of boilerplate code for function objects.</p><p>Then also there's <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd492418(VS.100).aspx" title="microsoft.com">Parallel Patterns Library</a> [microsoft.com], which provides STL-like algorithms with automatic parallelization.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>And no refactoring</p></div><p>This one is interesting. I do not know of <em>any</em> C++ IDE or plugin that would provide working C++ refactoring, for very simple reason - it is extremely hard to properly parse C++, taking into account all templates and template specializations, and other context-dependent things. Heck, something like <tt>a&lt;b&gt;c</tt> can be parsed either as expression <tt>(a &lt; b) &gt; c</tt>, or as a variable declaration <tt>a&lt;b&gt; c</tt>, depending on the context - and that context, again, includes template instantiations, which form a Turing-complete language that has to be interpreted correctly to produce matching results. I once wrote a C++ program, for fun, which had in it a piece of code as described above, which was parsed and compiled either as expression or as variable declaration depending on whether <tt>char</tt> type was signed or unsigned was for a given compiler - so you could play with compiler options and get different results. How can IDE possibly handle this?</p><p>You can say that it does it for code completion, but the truth is that a lot of it is guessing and heuristics. And there's the catch - when it guesses wrong, at worst, you get a wrong code completion list, or no list at all. But when you do a refactoring like, say, "rename class", and it fails to correctly determine that the class is referenced at some line of code, and doesn't rename it there, then your program no longer compiles...</p><p>That said, VS2010 IDE C++ parser (used for code completion and "Go to definition") is EDG-based, so it should be much more accurate - so hopefully we'll get reliable C++ refactoring eventually. Just not in this release.</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>... decent GUI toolkit. Both MFC and Win32 API are incredibly difficult to code.</p></div><p>I agree with that, but there are many good third-party libraries out there - most notably, Qt.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Visual C + + has n't changed much since VS 2002 .
Eh ? It 's got C + + /CLI since then , for starters .
It has become much closer to ISO C + + ( before 2003 it was a total joke , it did n't even get the scope of the for loop right - and 2003 was only so-so ) .
It 's got checked STL containers &amp; iterators in 2005 , and C + + TR1 in 2008 .
And it is getting significantly improved code completion [ msdn.com ] , and on-the-fly error checking [ msdn.com ] in 2010 .
Does n't sound " abandoned " to me.On the language front , Visual C + + in 2010 gets a bunch of C + + 0x features : lambdas , type inference ( auto ) , static \ _assert [ msdn.com ] , rvalue references ( &amp;&amp; ) [ msdn.com ] , and decltype [ msdn.com ] .
This is quite a lot , and lambdas are especially nice since they actually let you use STL algorithms as God intended without writing tons of boilerplate code for function objects.Then also there 's Parallel Patterns Library [ microsoft.com ] , which provides STL-like algorithms with automatic parallelization.And no refactoringThis one is interesting .
I do not know of any C + + IDE or plugin that would provide working C + + refactoring , for very simple reason - it is extremely hard to properly parse C + + , taking into account all templates and template specializations , and other context-dependent things .
Heck , something like ac can be parsed either as expression ( a c , or as a variable declaration a c , depending on the context - and that context , again , includes template instantiations , which form a Turing-complete language that has to be interpreted correctly to produce matching results .
I once wrote a C + + program , for fun , which had in it a piece of code as described above , which was parsed and compiled either as expression or as variable declaration depending on whether char type was signed or unsigned was for a given compiler - so you could play with compiler options and get different results .
How can IDE possibly handle this ? You can say that it does it for code completion , but the truth is that a lot of it is guessing and heuristics .
And there 's the catch - when it guesses wrong , at worst , you get a wrong code completion list , or no list at all .
But when you do a refactoring like , say , " rename class " , and it fails to correctly determine that the class is referenced at some line of code , and does n't rename it there , then your program no longer compiles...That said , VS2010 IDE C + + parser ( used for code completion and " Go to definition " ) is EDG-based , so it should be much more accurate - so hopefully we 'll get reliable C + + refactoring eventually .
Just not in this release .
... decent GUI toolkit .
Both MFC and Win32 API are incredibly difficult to code.I agree with that , but there are many good third-party libraries out there - most notably , Qt .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Visual C++ hasn't changed much since VS 2002.
Eh? It's got C++/CLI since then, for starters.
It has become much closer to ISO C++ (before 2003 it was a total joke, it didn't even get the scope of the for loop right - and 2003 was only so-so).
It's got checked STL containers &amp; iterators in 2005, and C++TR1 in 2008.
And it is getting significantly improved code completion [msdn.com], and on-the-fly error checking [msdn.com] in 2010.
Doesn't sound "abandoned" to me.On the language front, Visual C++ in 2010 gets a bunch of C++0x features: lambdas, type inference (auto), static\_assert  [msdn.com], rvalue references (&amp;&amp;) [msdn.com], and decltype [msdn.com].
This is quite a lot, and lambdas are especially nice since they actually let you use STL algorithms as God intended without writing tons of boilerplate code for function objects.Then also there's Parallel Patterns Library [microsoft.com], which provides STL-like algorithms with automatic parallelization.And no refactoringThis one is interesting.
I do not know of any C++ IDE or plugin that would provide working C++ refactoring, for very simple reason - it is extremely hard to properly parse C++, taking into account all templates and template specializations, and other context-dependent things.
Heck, something like ac can be parsed either as expression (a  c, or as a variable declaration a c, depending on the context - and that context, again, includes template instantiations, which form a Turing-complete language that has to be interpreted correctly to produce matching results.
I once wrote a C++ program, for fun, which had in it a piece of code as described above, which was parsed and compiled either as expression or as variable declaration depending on whether char type was signed or unsigned was for a given compiler - so you could play with compiler options and get different results.
How can IDE possibly handle this?You can say that it does it for code completion, but the truth is that a lot of it is guessing and heuristics.
And there's the catch - when it guesses wrong, at worst, you get a wrong code completion list, or no list at all.
But when you do a refactoring like, say, "rename class", and it fails to correctly determine that the class is referenced at some line of code, and doesn't rename it there, then your program no longer compiles...That said, VS2010 IDE C++ parser (used for code completion and "Go to definition") is EDG-based, so it should be much more accurate - so hopefully we'll get reliable C++ refactoring eventually.
Just not in this release.
... decent GUI toolkit.
Both MFC and Win32 API are incredibly difficult to code.I agree with that, but there are many good third-party libraries out there - most notably, Qt.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28233229</id>
	<title>Re:native ANSI C/C++ support ....</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244304900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wow, what a picky little person you are.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wow , what a picky little person you are .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wow, what a picky little person you are.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229585</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228463</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone still using Visual Studio 6?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244202360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>I agree, I use 2008 now, but vc6 is still on my desktop, and whenever I fireup v6 I am amazed at the speed and quality.

I long for a vc6 IDE with the updated features of 2008.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I agree , I use 2008 now , but vc6 is still on my desktop , and whenever I fireup v6 I am amazed at the speed and quality .
I long for a vc6 IDE with the updated features of 2008 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I agree, I use 2008 now, but vc6 is still on my desktop, and whenever I fireup v6 I am amazed at the speed and quality.
I long for a vc6 IDE with the updated features of 2008.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228105</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227885</id>
	<title>Not just parallel</title>
	<author>shutdown -p now</author>
	<datestamp>1244198460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>ParallelFX is definitely interesting, but I'd say that another very major addition is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F\_Sharp\_(programming\_language)" title="wikipedia.org">Visual F#</a> [wikipedia.org] - to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time a primarily functional language goes mainstream, and gets documentation, tooling (IDE/debugging/profiling), and general support on par with the likes of C# and VB. It's not Haskell (read: no typeclasses), and it's not quite OCaml either (no functors), even though the core language is recognizably ML. But it's got most of the nice FP bits OCaml has to offer, some syntactic sugar on top of that (e.g. ability to declare locals as mutable when needed, and arithmetic operators overloaded for all numeric types), and it's got direct and full access to one of the largest class libraries on the market today.</p><p>(I'm sure someone will remind me of Scala, which is in many ways similar to F#. It's definitely comparable, but its tooling support is lagging behind, and, most importantly, it's not backed by any of the "big players" in Java land - not Sun, not Google, not IBM - or indeed, any other company.)</p><p>The second, smaller, but still interesting bit is improved language interop. It seems that, as new core (i.e. MS-supported)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET languages are added to the batch, the framework itself is extended as needed to provide primitives for them where more than one language uses them. For example, both F# and IronPython work with tuples, but they have previously each defined their own type for that  - and so<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET 4 introduces the standard System.Tuple type, and all languages are changed to use that. So now you can actually make a tuple in IronPython, and pattern-match it in F# - nice.</p><p>Another bit along the same lines is C# 4 <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C\_Sharp\_(programming\_language)#Dynamic\_member\_lookup" title="wikipedia.org"> <tt>dynamic</tt> type</a> [wikipedia.org] - which is nothing but opt-in duck typing - and the associated DLR framework for exposing runtime dynamic type information in a common way. This means that static/dynamic language interop on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET is now two-way - previously, you could easily call C# class methods from IronPython/IronRuby, but there was no easy way to call methods on IronPython/IronRuby objects in C# - but now you can do the latter just as easily.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>ParallelFX is definitely interesting , but I 'd say that another very major addition is Visual F # [ wikipedia.org ] - to the best of my knowledge , this is the first time a primarily functional language goes mainstream , and gets documentation , tooling ( IDE/debugging/profiling ) , and general support on par with the likes of C # and VB .
It 's not Haskell ( read : no typeclasses ) , and it 's not quite OCaml either ( no functors ) , even though the core language is recognizably ML .
But it 's got most of the nice FP bits OCaml has to offer , some syntactic sugar on top of that ( e.g .
ability to declare locals as mutable when needed , and arithmetic operators overloaded for all numeric types ) , and it 's got direct and full access to one of the largest class libraries on the market today .
( I 'm sure someone will remind me of Scala , which is in many ways similar to F # .
It 's definitely comparable , but its tooling support is lagging behind , and , most importantly , it 's not backed by any of the " big players " in Java land - not Sun , not Google , not IBM - or indeed , any other company .
) The second , smaller , but still interesting bit is improved language interop .
It seems that , as new core ( i.e .
MS-supported ) .NET languages are added to the batch , the framework itself is extended as needed to provide primitives for them where more than one language uses them .
For example , both F # and IronPython work with tuples , but they have previously each defined their own type for that - and so .NET 4 introduces the standard System.Tuple type , and all languages are changed to use that .
So now you can actually make a tuple in IronPython , and pattern-match it in F # - nice.Another bit along the same lines is C # 4 dynamic type [ wikipedia.org ] - which is nothing but opt-in duck typing - and the associated DLR framework for exposing runtime dynamic type information in a common way .
This means that static/dynamic language interop on .NET is now two-way - previously , you could easily call C # class methods from IronPython/IronRuby , but there was no easy way to call methods on IronPython/IronRuby objects in C # - but now you can do the latter just as easily .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ParallelFX is definitely interesting, but I'd say that another very major addition is Visual F# [wikipedia.org] - to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time a primarily functional language goes mainstream, and gets documentation, tooling (IDE/debugging/profiling), and general support on par with the likes of C# and VB.
It's not Haskell (read: no typeclasses), and it's not quite OCaml either (no functors), even though the core language is recognizably ML.
But it's got most of the nice FP bits OCaml has to offer, some syntactic sugar on top of that (e.g.
ability to declare locals as mutable when needed, and arithmetic operators overloaded for all numeric types), and it's got direct and full access to one of the largest class libraries on the market today.
(I'm sure someone will remind me of Scala, which is in many ways similar to F#.
It's definitely comparable, but its tooling support is lagging behind, and, most importantly, it's not backed by any of the "big players" in Java land - not Sun, not Google, not IBM - or indeed, any other company.
)The second, smaller, but still interesting bit is improved language interop.
It seems that, as new core (i.e.
MS-supported) .NET languages are added to the batch, the framework itself is extended as needed to provide primitives for them where more than one language uses them.
For example, both F# and IronPython work with tuples, but they have previously each defined their own type for that  - and so .NET 4 introduces the standard System.Tuple type, and all languages are changed to use that.
So now you can actually make a tuple in IronPython, and pattern-match it in F# - nice.Another bit along the same lines is C# 4  dynamic type [wikipedia.org] - which is nothing but opt-in duck typing - and the associated DLR framework for exposing runtime dynamic type information in a common way.
This means that static/dynamic language interop on .NET is now two-way - previously, you could easily call C# class methods from IronPython/IronRuby, but there was no easy way to call methods on IronPython/IronRuby objects in C# - but now you can do the latter just as easily.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228025</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>Acer500</author>
	<datestamp>1244199540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am, and I'm extremely happy with it (of course I migrated from VB 6, so anything would look good).
<br> <br>
I'm probably at the "feature abuse" level, but I'm in love with LINQ, the amount of help you get from the IDE for everything is great, and it saves time like nobody's business.
<br> <br>
I've used Eclipse for university projects until I graduated a couple years ago, and while it was good, VS 2008 blows it away (to be fair I should compare the current version of Eclipse though).
<br> <br>
On to the dark side of the framework, the Entity Framework is AWFUL at this stage... I guess that it will become useable by version 3.0. We'll be looking into NHibernate and other options soon. And Microsoft is still behind on a lot of AJAXy stuff, the Web side is still in need of more polish - some stuff, like the AJAX panels, is bloated, and it's far easier to do a trillion postbacks than to work with Javascript with the IDE.
<br> <br>I'm really looking forward to VS 2010 due to its improved Javascript support, so it might address some of the current limitations.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am , and I 'm extremely happy with it ( of course I migrated from VB 6 , so anything would look good ) .
I 'm probably at the " feature abuse " level , but I 'm in love with LINQ , the amount of help you get from the IDE for everything is great , and it saves time like nobody 's business .
I 've used Eclipse for university projects until I graduated a couple years ago , and while it was good , VS 2008 blows it away ( to be fair I should compare the current version of Eclipse though ) .
On to the dark side of the framework , the Entity Framework is AWFUL at this stage... I guess that it will become useable by version 3.0 .
We 'll be looking into NHibernate and other options soon .
And Microsoft is still behind on a lot of AJAXy stuff , the Web side is still in need of more polish - some stuff , like the AJAX panels , is bloated , and it 's far easier to do a trillion postbacks than to work with Javascript with the IDE .
I 'm really looking forward to VS 2010 due to its improved Javascript support , so it might address some of the current limitations .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am, and I'm extremely happy with it (of course I migrated from VB 6, so anything would look good).
I'm probably at the "feature abuse" level, but I'm in love with LINQ, the amount of help you get from the IDE for everything is great, and it saves time like nobody's business.
I've used Eclipse for university projects until I graduated a couple years ago, and while it was good, VS 2008 blows it away (to be fair I should compare the current version of Eclipse though).
On to the dark side of the framework, the Entity Framework is AWFUL at this stage... I guess that it will become useable by version 3.0.
We'll be looking into NHibernate and other options soon.
And Microsoft is still behind on a lot of AJAXy stuff, the Web side is still in need of more polish - some stuff, like the AJAX panels, is bloated, and it's far easier to do a trillion postbacks than to work with Javascript with the IDE.
I'm really looking forward to VS 2010 due to its improved Javascript support, so it might address some of the current limitations.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228757</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244204520000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah, just 3.5 access.  And much improved stability for large projects.  Throw in ReSharper 4.0 in VS 2008 and you have an environment which I have yet to see even close to matched in any other IDE.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah , just 3.5 access .
And much improved stability for large projects .
Throw in ReSharper 4.0 in VS 2008 and you have an environment which I have yet to see even close to matched in any other IDE .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah, just 3.5 access.
And much improved stability for large projects.
Throw in ReSharper 4.0 in VS 2008 and you have an environment which I have yet to see even close to matched in any other IDE.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227839</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28230633</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone still using Visual Studio 6?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244230740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Sadly, yes. We have a long-running project with enough idiosyncrasies that it will still not run properly when compiled with newer compilers. Mostly due to dependence on non-standard behavior from pre-C++98 era code...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(</p><p>I cringe every time I have to work on that project.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Sadly , yes .
We have a long-running project with enough idiosyncrasies that it will still not run properly when compiled with newer compilers .
Mostly due to dependence on non-standard behavior from pre-C + + 98 era code... : ( I cringe every time I have to work on that project .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sadly, yes.
We have a long-running project with enough idiosyncrasies that it will still not run properly when compiled with newer compilers.
Mostly due to dependence on non-standard behavior from pre-C++98 era code... :(I cringe every time I have to work on that project.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228105</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28230283</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>oiron</author>
	<datestamp>1244225160000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>And it is getting <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/05/27/rebuilding-intellisense.aspx" title="msdn.com" rel="nofollow">significantly improved code completion</a> [msdn.com], and <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/06/01/c-gets-squiggles.aspx" title="msdn.com" rel="nofollow">on-the-fly error checking</a> [msdn.com] in 2010.</p></div><p>If you read the comments in that post, it looks like C++/CLI <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/05/27/rebuilding-intellisense.aspx#9644735" title="msdn.com" rel="nofollow">isn't supported</a> [msdn.com] by the new, improved intellisense.</p><p>Honestly, we took to calling it "Intellinonsense" at work, given the number of times it fails to complete; you can rate it by failures per second...</p><p><div class="quote"><p>Doesn't sound "abandoned" to me.</p><p>On the language front, Visual C++ in 2010 gets a bunch of C++0x features: <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2008/10/28/lambdas-auto-and-static-assert-c-0x-features-in-vc10-part-1.aspx" title="msdn.com" rel="nofollow">lambdas, type inference (<tt>auto</tt>), <tt>static\_assert</tt> </a> [msdn.com], <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/02/03/rvalue-references-c-0x-features-in-vc10-part-2.aspx" title="msdn.com" rel="nofollow">rvalue references (&amp;&amp;)</a> [msdn.com], and <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/04/22/decltype-c-0x-features-in-vc10-part-3.aspx" title="msdn.com" rel="nofollow">decltype</a> [msdn.com]. This is quite a lot, and lambdas are especially nice since they actually let you use STL algorithms as God intended without writing tons of boilerplate code for function objects.</p><p>Then also there's <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd492418(VS.100).aspx" title="microsoft.com" rel="nofollow">Parallel Patterns Library</a> [microsoft.com], which provides STL-like algorithms with automatic parallelization.</p></div><p>Yes, the actual c++ compiler and library support has definitely improved. But there seems to be no corresponding improvement in the IDE's functionality. When Visual Assist X becomes a requirement for working with any kind of productivity, it's a rather sad situation. You've got to spend on VS, and then on VA-X for every developer, when the alternative is eclipse with mingw, giving all those above-mentioned features (aka, parts of the standard) for free, and a real usable IDE along with that!</p><p><div class="quote"><p>This one is interesting. I do not know of <em>any</em> C++ IDE or plugin that would provide working C++ refactoring, for very simple reason - it is extremely hard to properly parse C++, taking into account all templates and template specializations, and other context-dependent things. Heck, something like <tt>a&lt;b&gt;c</tt> can be parsed either as expression <tt>(a &lt; b) &gt; c</tt>, or as a variable declaration <tt>a&lt;b&gt; c</tt>, depending on the context - and that context, again, includes template instantiations, which form a Turing-complete language that has to be interpreted correctly to produce matching results. I once wrote a C++ program, for fun, which had in it a piece of code as described above, which was parsed and compiled either as expression or as variable declaration depending on whether <tt>char</tt> type was signed or unsigned was for a given compiler - so you could play with compiler options and get different results. How can IDE possibly handle this?</p><p>You can say that it does it for code completion, but the truth is that a lot of it is guessing and heuristics. And there's the catch - when it guesses wrong, at worst, you get a wrong code completion list, or no list at all. But when you do a refactoring like, say, "rename class", and it fails to correctly determine that the class is referenced at some line of code, and doesn't rename it there, then your program no longer compiles...</p><p>That said, VS2010 IDE C++ parser (used for code completion and "Go to definition") is EDG-based, so it should be much more accurate - so hopefully we'll get reliable C++ refactoring eventually. Just not in this release.</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>Eclipse and the still-in-beta KDevelop 4.x give you at least some basic refactoring support. Eclipse has done so for a few years now...</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>I agree with that, but there are many good third-party libraries out there - most notably, Qt.</p></div><p>Or, you could write in C++/CLI and use the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net UI... <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2009/05/27/rebuilding-intellisense.aspx#9644735" title="msdn.com" rel="nofollow">Oh wait!</a> [msdn.com]

Personally, I use Visual Studio at work, because I'm in a C++/C# shop right now. If it were upto me, I'd drop the damn thing like a hot potato and use C++/Python/Java from Eclipse, and do it at no additional cost, too!</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>And it is getting significantly improved code completion [ msdn.com ] , and on-the-fly error checking [ msdn.com ] in 2010.If you read the comments in that post , it looks like C + + /CLI is n't supported [ msdn.com ] by the new , improved intellisense.Honestly , we took to calling it " Intellinonsense " at work , given the number of times it fails to complete ; you can rate it by failures per second...Does n't sound " abandoned " to me.On the language front , Visual C + + in 2010 gets a bunch of C + + 0x features : lambdas , type inference ( auto ) , static \ _assert [ msdn.com ] , rvalue references ( &amp;&amp; ) [ msdn.com ] , and decltype [ msdn.com ] .
This is quite a lot , and lambdas are especially nice since they actually let you use STL algorithms as God intended without writing tons of boilerplate code for function objects.Then also there 's Parallel Patterns Library [ microsoft.com ] , which provides STL-like algorithms with automatic parallelization.Yes , the actual c + + compiler and library support has definitely improved .
But there seems to be no corresponding improvement in the IDE 's functionality .
When Visual Assist X becomes a requirement for working with any kind of productivity , it 's a rather sad situation .
You 've got to spend on VS , and then on VA-X for every developer , when the alternative is eclipse with mingw , giving all those above-mentioned features ( aka , parts of the standard ) for free , and a real usable IDE along with that ! This one is interesting .
I do not know of any C + + IDE or plugin that would provide working C + + refactoring , for very simple reason - it is extremely hard to properly parse C + + , taking into account all templates and template specializations , and other context-dependent things .
Heck , something like ac can be parsed either as expression ( a c , or as a variable declaration a c , depending on the context - and that context , again , includes template instantiations , which form a Turing-complete language that has to be interpreted correctly to produce matching results .
I once wrote a C + + program , for fun , which had in it a piece of code as described above , which was parsed and compiled either as expression or as variable declaration depending on whether char type was signed or unsigned was for a given compiler - so you could play with compiler options and get different results .
How can IDE possibly handle this ? You can say that it does it for code completion , but the truth is that a lot of it is guessing and heuristics .
And there 's the catch - when it guesses wrong , at worst , you get a wrong code completion list , or no list at all .
But when you do a refactoring like , say , " rename class " , and it fails to correctly determine that the class is referenced at some line of code , and does n't rename it there , then your program no longer compiles...That said , VS2010 IDE C + + parser ( used for code completion and " Go to definition " ) is EDG-based , so it should be much more accurate - so hopefully we 'll get reliable C + + refactoring eventually .
Just not in this release.Eclipse and the still-in-beta KDevelop 4.x give you at least some basic refactoring support .
Eclipse has done so for a few years now...I agree with that , but there are many good third-party libraries out there - most notably , Qt.Or , you could write in C + + /CLI and use the .Net UI... Oh wait !
[ msdn.com ] Personally , I use Visual Studio at work , because I 'm in a C + + /C # shop right now .
If it were upto me , I 'd drop the damn thing like a hot potato and use C + + /Python/Java from Eclipse , and do it at no additional cost , too !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>And it is getting significantly improved code completion [msdn.com], and on-the-fly error checking [msdn.com] in 2010.If you read the comments in that post, it looks like C++/CLI isn't supported [msdn.com] by the new, improved intellisense.Honestly, we took to calling it "Intellinonsense" at work, given the number of times it fails to complete; you can rate it by failures per second...Doesn't sound "abandoned" to me.On the language front, Visual C++ in 2010 gets a bunch of C++0x features: lambdas, type inference (auto), static\_assert  [msdn.com], rvalue references (&amp;&amp;) [msdn.com], and decltype [msdn.com].
This is quite a lot, and lambdas are especially nice since they actually let you use STL algorithms as God intended without writing tons of boilerplate code for function objects.Then also there's Parallel Patterns Library [microsoft.com], which provides STL-like algorithms with automatic parallelization.Yes, the actual c++ compiler and library support has definitely improved.
But there seems to be no corresponding improvement in the IDE's functionality.
When Visual Assist X becomes a requirement for working with any kind of productivity, it's a rather sad situation.
You've got to spend on VS, and then on VA-X for every developer, when the alternative is eclipse with mingw, giving all those above-mentioned features (aka, parts of the standard) for free, and a real usable IDE along with that!This one is interesting.
I do not know of any C++ IDE or plugin that would provide working C++ refactoring, for very simple reason - it is extremely hard to properly parse C++, taking into account all templates and template specializations, and other context-dependent things.
Heck, something like ac can be parsed either as expression (a  c, or as a variable declaration a c, depending on the context - and that context, again, includes template instantiations, which form a Turing-complete language that has to be interpreted correctly to produce matching results.
I once wrote a C++ program, for fun, which had in it a piece of code as described above, which was parsed and compiled either as expression or as variable declaration depending on whether char type was signed or unsigned was for a given compiler - so you could play with compiler options and get different results.
How can IDE possibly handle this?You can say that it does it for code completion, but the truth is that a lot of it is guessing and heuristics.
And there's the catch - when it guesses wrong, at worst, you get a wrong code completion list, or no list at all.
But when you do a refactoring like, say, "rename class", and it fails to correctly determine that the class is referenced at some line of code, and doesn't rename it there, then your program no longer compiles...That said, VS2010 IDE C++ parser (used for code completion and "Go to definition") is EDG-based, so it should be much more accurate - so hopefully we'll get reliable C++ refactoring eventually.
Just not in this release.Eclipse and the still-in-beta KDevelop 4.x give you at least some basic refactoring support.
Eclipse has done so for a few years now...I agree with that, but there are many good third-party libraries out there - most notably, Qt.Or, you could write in C++/CLI and use the .Net UI... Oh wait!
[msdn.com]

Personally, I use Visual Studio at work, because I'm in a C++/C# shop right now.
If it were upto me, I'd drop the damn thing like a hot potato and use C++/Python/Java from Eclipse, and do it at no additional cost, too!
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228109</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229855</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>pebs</author>
	<datestamp>1244218740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have all three installed - 2008, 2005, and 2003, though I mainly use 2008 these days (just have the other ones around just in case).  I don't get what people like about Visual Studio.  I personally like Eclipse much much better, and like using Emacs even better than that.  Maybe I'm just scarred from having to use Visual Studio's awful Winforms designer.  But they could do so much more for C# editing.  Intellisense is good and all, but they should look at Eclipse's quick fixes and try pressing CTRL-1 and CTRL-. (Cmd instead of CTRL if you're on a Mac) and all the little shortcuts that allow you breeze through writing Java code in Eclipse.  That said, the code editor is fairly good in 2008, just not as good as the competition as far as editing for a verbose language is concerned, and there's very little in VS that really impresses me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have all three installed - 2008 , 2005 , and 2003 , though I mainly use 2008 these days ( just have the other ones around just in case ) .
I do n't get what people like about Visual Studio .
I personally like Eclipse much much better , and like using Emacs even better than that .
Maybe I 'm just scarred from having to use Visual Studio 's awful Winforms designer .
But they could do so much more for C # editing .
Intellisense is good and all , but they should look at Eclipse 's quick fixes and try pressing CTRL-1 and CTRL- .
( Cmd instead of CTRL if you 're on a Mac ) and all the little shortcuts that allow you breeze through writing Java code in Eclipse .
That said , the code editor is fairly good in 2008 , just not as good as the competition as far as editing for a verbose language is concerned , and there 's very little in VS that really impresses me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have all three installed - 2008, 2005, and 2003, though I mainly use 2008 these days (just have the other ones around just in case).
I don't get what people like about Visual Studio.
I personally like Eclipse much much better, and like using Emacs even better than that.
Maybe I'm just scarred from having to use Visual Studio's awful Winforms designer.
But they could do so much more for C# editing.
Intellisense is good and all, but they should look at Eclipse's quick fixes and try pressing CTRL-1 and CTRL-.
(Cmd instead of CTRL if you're on a Mac) and all the little shortcuts that allow you breeze through writing Java code in Eclipse.
That said, the code editor is fairly good in 2008, just not as good as the competition as far as editing for a verbose language is concerned, and there's very little in VS that really impresses me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28230939</id>
	<title>Does it make secure programming easy?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244278920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I recently downloaded the free Visual Studio developer package from Microsoft and found it did not even have "snprintf" - from C99.</p><p>It did have \_snprintf and sprintf\_s but<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... will someone at Microsoft pull their head in and make writing compatible, portable, secure, software easy for everyone?</p><p>Does their latest offering have strlcpy() and friends? Or do they have their own variation (strcpy\_s()) just because they're Microsoft and they can?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I recently downloaded the free Visual Studio developer package from Microsoft and found it did not even have " snprintf " - from C99.It did have \ _snprintf and sprintf \ _s but ... will someone at Microsoft pull their head in and make writing compatible , portable , secure , software easy for everyone ? Does their latest offering have strlcpy ( ) and friends ?
Or do they have their own variation ( strcpy \ _s ( ) ) just because they 're Microsoft and they can ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I recently downloaded the free Visual Studio developer package from Microsoft and found it did not even have "snprintf" - from C99.It did have \_snprintf and sprintf\_s but ... will someone at Microsoft pull their head in and make writing compatible, portable, secure, software easy for everyone?Does their latest offering have strlcpy() and friends?
Or do they have their own variation (strcpy\_s()) just because they're Microsoft and they can?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227655</id>
	<title>Yay!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244197020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Visual Studio is the best!</p><p>Seriously.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Visual Studio is the best ! Seriously .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Visual Studio is the best!Seriously.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28233079</id>
	<title>Re:Yay!</title>
	<author>bemymonkey</author>
	<datestamp>1244304180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I don't know about it being the best, but from my limited experience (then again, I'm still using VS2005 - dunno about newer versions) it's got everything I need.</p><p>On an unrelated note - anyone else's Slashdot views going all wonky? Mine looks like this:</p><p><a href="http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn108/bemymonkey/slashdot.gif" title="photobucket.com" rel="nofollow">http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn108/bemymonkey/slashdot.gif</a> [photobucket.com]</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I do n't know about it being the best , but from my limited experience ( then again , I 'm still using VS2005 - dunno about newer versions ) it 's got everything I need.On an unrelated note - anyone else 's Slashdot views going all wonky ?
Mine looks like this : http : //i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn108/bemymonkey/slashdot.gif [ photobucket.com ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I don't know about it being the best, but from my limited experience (then again, I'm still using VS2005 - dunno about newer versions) it's got everything I need.On an unrelated note - anyone else's Slashdot views going all wonky?
Mine looks like this:http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn108/bemymonkey/slashdot.gif [photobucket.com]</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228625</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244203500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>There are a few C++ refactoring add-ins for Visual Studio<br>Refactor! for C++<br>Visual Assist X</p><p>C++ can be very hard to parse but most of the time the refactoring tools work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>There are a few C + + refactoring add-ins for Visual StudioRefactor !
for C + + Visual Assist XC + + can be very hard to parse but most of the time the refactoring tools work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>There are a few C++ refactoring add-ins for Visual StudioRefactor!
for C++Visual Assist XC++ can be very hard to parse but most of the time the refactoring tools work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228109</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228461</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>TheRealMindChild</author>
	<datestamp>1244202360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>How about being able to target<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, or 3.5? I thought that was pretty significant. Before, if you wanted to target<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET 1.1, you had to use VS 2003. If you wanted to target 2.0, you had to use 2005. With 2008, you can target any of them.</htmltext>
<tokenext>How about being able to target .NET 1.1 , 2.0 , 3.0 , or 3.5 ?
I thought that was pretty significant .
Before , if you wanted to target .NET 1.1 , you had to use VS 2003 .
If you wanted to target 2.0 , you had to use 2005 .
With 2008 , you can target any of them .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>How about being able to target .NET 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, or 3.5?
I thought that was pretty significant.
Before, if you wanted to target .NET 1.1, you had to use VS 2003.
If you wanted to target 2.0, you had to use 2005.
With 2008, you can target any of them.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227839</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228705</id>
	<title>Re:Yay!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244204100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Fuck off win-fag.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Fuck off win-fag .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Fuck off win-fag.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227655</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227715</id>
	<title>More security?</title>
	<author>johannesg</author>
	<datestamp>1244197320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Look at that fourth screenshot. What possible harm could loading a project do, I wonder? Does it already (partially?) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environment? Is this an attempt to banish evil compilers from accidentally compiling source?</p><p>And why is the answer always "make the user choose" even though there is absolutely no way to make an informed choice (same problem as with UAC or sudo: I don't want to hand over the keys to the kingdom, I only want to give out narrow and specific permissions, based on useful information, rather than some nebulous feeling of 'trust')?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Look at that fourth screenshot .
What possible harm could loading a project do , I wonder ?
Does it already ( partially ?
) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environment ?
Is this an attempt to banish evil compilers from accidentally compiling source ? And why is the answer always " make the user choose " even though there is absolutely no way to make an informed choice ( same problem as with UAC or sudo : I do n't want to hand over the keys to the kingdom , I only want to give out narrow and specific permissions , based on useful information , rather than some nebulous feeling of 'trust ' ) ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look at that fourth screenshot.
What possible harm could loading a project do, I wonder?
Does it already (partially?
) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environment?
Is this an attempt to banish evil compilers from accidentally compiling source?And why is the answer always "make the user choose" even though there is absolutely no way to make an informed choice (same problem as with UAC or sudo: I don't want to hand over the keys to the kingdom, I only want to give out narrow and specific permissions, based on useful information, rather than some nebulous feeling of 'trust')?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229459</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244213580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>at my work, we're still a VS 2003 shop...only because we are too lazy to upgrade our (literally) 1 million lines of code to 2005/2008.  And some of the 3rd party tools that we use only support VS 2003, so we'd have to upgrade those tools as well to work.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>at my work , we 're still a VS 2003 shop...only because we are too lazy to upgrade our ( literally ) 1 million lines of code to 2005/2008 .
And some of the 3rd party tools that we use only support VS 2003 , so we 'd have to upgrade those tools as well to work .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>at my work, we're still a VS 2003 shop...only because we are too lazy to upgrade our (literally) 1 million lines of code to 2005/2008.
And some of the 3rd party tools that we use only support VS 2003, so we'd have to upgrade those tools as well to work.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228919</id>
	<title>Doesn't impress me...</title>
	<author>bertok</author>
	<datestamp>1244206020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I gave VS 2010 a try on several machines.</p><p>If you have an SSD, it's fine, if a little sluggish, especially the more complex designers like the Entity Framework stuff.</p><p>On a harddrive, it's almost unusable, it just churns and churns and churns for what seems like hours. Previously, serious developers needed a big monitor and lots of RAM. Now it's a big monitor, lots of RAM, and an SSD.</p><p>Still, the new WPF editor has promise, I like the subtle gradient shading and transparency effects. I think it's a beta issue, but I did notice that when you switch to a new editor window, the text is blurred for about a tenth of a second, then jumps into focus. This is probably a bug in the pixel-snapping they're using, but for a while I thought my eyes were going.</p><p>I have seen demos that show that writing a plugin using C# and WPF is now incredibly trivial, so that's interesting, but won't be useful to 90\% of the developers out there.</p><p>However, most of the rest of the changes appear to be cosmetic.</p><p>The new APIs in the 4.0<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET framework don't impress me at all. The parallel library is a JOKE compared to the Oswego parallel programming library that SUN merged into Java. Microsoft has a bunch of webpages on how "multi core is the future", and "programmers have to start doing threads", but they won't do anything other than the absolute minimum to help the programmers with what is a VERY difficult task. Any decent parallel library is going to need a bag of tools like a "lock free queue", with various queuing styles such as FIFO, LIFO, priority, fixed-length, arbitrary length, and all of them have to have the same interface. Java has had this for YEARS now. Where's my abstract "Executor" interface with a bunch of standard implementations like "immediate, background-thread, thread-pool, asynchronous call, Dispatcher call, etc..."?</p><p>Microsoft talks a lot about 'functional' programming, but that's implemented in a half-assed way as well. For example, take the <tt>SortedDicitonary&lt;T&gt;</tt> class. Looks useful, right? Now try to enumerate all of the values in a certain key range, without having to enumerate the entire container. You can't, because Microsoft forgot that they need to provide a 'range query' method that takes a comparator function, something like:</p><p><tt>    IEnumerable&lt;KeyValuePair&lt;KeyT,ValueT&gt;&gt; RangeQuery(Func&lt;int, keyT&gt; rangeTest)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... </tt></p><p>My biggest gripe is that the Entity Framework GUI designer is STILL a joke. It has a longer list of unsupported features than supported features. It's meant to be a time-saving feature, yet I have to write not one, but THREE mapping files, in XML, by hand, with no tab-complete. Can you FEEL the efficiency? I know I can! And it still doesn't support foreign keys with multiple columns. In general, it can't map to about 50\% of the existing schemas out there because of some technical limitation or other.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I gave VS 2010 a try on several machines.If you have an SSD , it 's fine , if a little sluggish , especially the more complex designers like the Entity Framework stuff.On a harddrive , it 's almost unusable , it just churns and churns and churns for what seems like hours .
Previously , serious developers needed a big monitor and lots of RAM .
Now it 's a big monitor , lots of RAM , and an SSD.Still , the new WPF editor has promise , I like the subtle gradient shading and transparency effects .
I think it 's a beta issue , but I did notice that when you switch to a new editor window , the text is blurred for about a tenth of a second , then jumps into focus .
This is probably a bug in the pixel-snapping they 're using , but for a while I thought my eyes were going.I have seen demos that show that writing a plugin using C # and WPF is now incredibly trivial , so that 's interesting , but wo n't be useful to 90 \ % of the developers out there.However , most of the rest of the changes appear to be cosmetic.The new APIs in the 4.0 .NET framework do n't impress me at all .
The parallel library is a JOKE compared to the Oswego parallel programming library that SUN merged into Java .
Microsoft has a bunch of webpages on how " multi core is the future " , and " programmers have to start doing threads " , but they wo n't do anything other than the absolute minimum to help the programmers with what is a VERY difficult task .
Any decent parallel library is going to need a bag of tools like a " lock free queue " , with various queuing styles such as FIFO , LIFO , priority , fixed-length , arbitrary length , and all of them have to have the same interface .
Java has had this for YEARS now .
Where 's my abstract " Executor " interface with a bunch of standard implementations like " immediate , background-thread , thread-pool , asynchronous call , Dispatcher call , etc... " ? Microsoft talks a lot about 'functional ' programming , but that 's implemented in a half-assed way as well .
For example , take the SortedDicitonary class .
Looks useful , right ?
Now try to enumerate all of the values in a certain key range , without having to enumerate the entire container .
You ca n't , because Microsoft forgot that they need to provide a 'range query ' method that takes a comparator function , something like : IEnumerable &gt; RangeQuery ( Func rangeTest ) ... My biggest gripe is that the Entity Framework GUI designer is STILL a joke .
It has a longer list of unsupported features than supported features .
It 's meant to be a time-saving feature , yet I have to write not one , but THREE mapping files , in XML , by hand , with no tab-complete .
Can you FEEL the efficiency ?
I know I can !
And it still does n't support foreign keys with multiple columns .
In general , it ca n't map to about 50 \ % of the existing schemas out there because of some technical limitation or other .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I gave VS 2010 a try on several machines.If you have an SSD, it's fine, if a little sluggish, especially the more complex designers like the Entity Framework stuff.On a harddrive, it's almost unusable, it just churns and churns and churns for what seems like hours.
Previously, serious developers needed a big monitor and lots of RAM.
Now it's a big monitor, lots of RAM, and an SSD.Still, the new WPF editor has promise, I like the subtle gradient shading and transparency effects.
I think it's a beta issue, but I did notice that when you switch to a new editor window, the text is blurred for about a tenth of a second, then jumps into focus.
This is probably a bug in the pixel-snapping they're using, but for a while I thought my eyes were going.I have seen demos that show that writing a plugin using C# and WPF is now incredibly trivial, so that's interesting, but won't be useful to 90\% of the developers out there.However, most of the rest of the changes appear to be cosmetic.The new APIs in the 4.0 .NET framework don't impress me at all.
The parallel library is a JOKE compared to the Oswego parallel programming library that SUN merged into Java.
Microsoft has a bunch of webpages on how "multi core is the future", and "programmers have to start doing threads", but they won't do anything other than the absolute minimum to help the programmers with what is a VERY difficult task.
Any decent parallel library is going to need a bag of tools like a "lock free queue", with various queuing styles such as FIFO, LIFO, priority, fixed-length, arbitrary length, and all of them have to have the same interface.
Java has had this for YEARS now.
Where's my abstract "Executor" interface with a bunch of standard implementations like "immediate, background-thread, thread-pool, asynchronous call, Dispatcher call, etc..."?Microsoft talks a lot about 'functional' programming, but that's implemented in a half-assed way as well.
For example, take the SortedDicitonary class.
Looks useful, right?
Now try to enumerate all of the values in a certain key range, without having to enumerate the entire container.
You can't, because Microsoft forgot that they need to provide a 'range query' method that takes a comparator function, something like:    IEnumerable&gt; RangeQuery(Func rangeTest) ... My biggest gripe is that the Entity Framework GUI designer is STILL a joke.
It has a longer list of unsupported features than supported features.
It's meant to be a time-saving feature, yet I have to write not one, but THREE mapping files, in XML, by hand, with no tab-complete.
Can you FEEL the efficiency?
I know I can!
And it still doesn't support foreign keys with multiple columns.
In general, it can't map to about 50\% of the existing schemas out there because of some technical limitation or other.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228167</id>
	<title>Re:More security?</title>
	<author>TheThiefMaster</author>
	<datestamp>1244200320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If the projects have custom build steps set up they can execute any program they like before / after / to compile.</p><p>That's all it's warning about.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If the projects have custom build steps set up they can execute any program they like before / after / to compile.That 's all it 's warning about .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If the projects have custom build steps set up they can execute any program they like before / after / to compile.That's all it's warning about.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227715</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229941</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>enantiomer2000</author>
	<datestamp>1244220300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I am using VS2008 for a WPF/WCF project.  Do I get 2 cookies?</htmltext>
<tokenext>I am using VS2008 for a WPF/WCF project .
Do I get 2 cookies ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I am using VS2008 for a WPF/WCF project.
Do I get 2 cookies?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229091</id>
	<title>Re:Whatever.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244207880000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually Visual Studio is one of top developer platforms and is used for just about anything you can imagine on a regular basis.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually Visual Studio is one of top developer platforms and is used for just about anything you can imagine on a regular basis .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually Visual Studio is one of top developer platforms and is used for just about anything you can imagine on a regular basis.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228523</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28242349</id>
	<title>Re:More security?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244398740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hey you idiot, this is for the source control, if you loaded the project normally it will connect to source control to get the status of each file, if you choose to load the project for readonly you will just be able to read code and not change it whatsoever</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hey you idiot , this is for the source control , if you loaded the project normally it will connect to source control to get the status of each file , if you choose to load the project for readonly you will just be able to read code and not change it whatsoever</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hey you idiot, this is for the source control, if you loaded the project normally it will connect to source control to get the status of each file, if you choose to load the project for readonly you will just be able to read code and not change it whatsoever</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227715</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228349</id>
	<title>*extremely* old news</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244201640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>First Look?</p><p><a href="http://www.codeguru.com/vb/vbnet30/article.php/c15645/" title="codeguru.com" rel="nofollow">Hello and welcome to 8 months ago</a> [codeguru.com].</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>First Look ? Hello and welcome to 8 months ago [ codeguru.com ] .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>First Look?Hello and welcome to 8 months ago [codeguru.com].</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229489</id>
	<title>Did they fix that bug</title>
	<author>smitty\_one\_each</author>
	<datestamp>1244214000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>...where VS <a href="http://www.charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind.html" title="charlespetzold.com">Rots the Mind</a> [charlespetzold.com]?</htmltext>
<tokenext>...where VS Rots the Mind [ charlespetzold.com ] ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>...where VS Rots the Mind [charlespetzold.com]?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28231901</id>
	<title>What's VS? IDE vs. VM vs. platform?</title>
	<author>jonaskoelker</author>
	<datestamp>1244294580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Personally for me, the top 3 features are: [F#, a library, C++0x]</p></div><p>Forgive me for being ignorant, but...</p><p>What is VS?  I always thought of it as an IDE, which my devil's dictionary describes as "an editor with a compile button and delusions of grandeur."</p><p>So does VS now have syntax coloring and a compile button for F#?  Or is VS something else, such as package containing {a compiler, an IDE}?</p><p>Then you start talking about libraries... so, VS is {IDE, compiler, libraries}?  Does it have a VM for anything as well, or... ?</p><p>Exactly what is VS?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Personally for me , the top 3 features are : [ F # , a library , C + + 0x ] Forgive me for being ignorant , but...What is VS ?
I always thought of it as an IDE , which my devil 's dictionary describes as " an editor with a compile button and delusions of grandeur .
" So does VS now have syntax coloring and a compile button for F # ?
Or is VS something else , such as package containing { a compiler , an IDE } ? Then you start talking about libraries... so , VS is { IDE , compiler , libraries } ?
Does it have a VM for anything as well , or... ? Exactly what is VS ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Personally for me, the top 3 features are: [F#, a library, C++0x]Forgive me for being ignorant, but...What is VS?
I always thought of it as an IDE, which my devil's dictionary describes as "an editor with a compile button and delusions of grandeur.
"So does VS now have syntax coloring and a compile button for F#?
Or is VS something else, such as package containing {a compiler, an IDE}?Then you start talking about libraries... so, VS is {IDE, compiler, libraries}?
Does it have a VM for anything as well, or... ?Exactly what is VS?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228401</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227853</id>
	<title>Re:More security?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244198220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Does it already (partially?) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environment</p></div><p>Actually, it kind-of does execute. Most controls, even user-created ones, have "design mode." That's a special view that gets rendered while you're designing pages or forms. I never thought about it, but it is just code that executes. I don't know if there's anything that prevents you from opening up an FTP connection or calling "del<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/f<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/s<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/q C:\*" from a control in design mode.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does it already ( partially ?
) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environmentActually , it kind-of does execute .
Most controls , even user-created ones , have " design mode .
" That 's a special view that gets rendered while you 're designing pages or forms .
I never thought about it , but it is just code that executes .
I do n't know if there 's anything that prevents you from opening up an FTP connection or calling " del /f /s /q C : \ * " from a control in design mode .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does it already (partially?
) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environmentActually, it kind-of does execute.
Most controls, even user-created ones, have "design mode.
" That's a special view that gets rendered while you're designing pages or forms.
I never thought about it, but it is just code that executes.
I don't know if there's anything that prevents you from opening up an FTP connection or calling "del /f /s /q C:\*" from a control in design mode.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227715</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228105</id>
	<title>Anyone still using Visual Studio 6?</title>
	<author>wandazulu</author>
	<datestamp>1244200020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>VC6, to me, is the '57 Chevy of IDEs; it's out of date, lacking in features, isn't to everyone's tastes, but just keeps on runnin' with a strange magic that Microsoft has never been able to reproduce in its later versions. I've used every VS version since 2, and all the versions after 6 were plagued by bugginess, general slowness, and, here's the real subjective part, a feeling of fragility that I never experienced with VC6. I have used VS8 quite a bit and while I appreciate having a more up-to-date compiler (stupid BS "security warnings" aside), VC6 still, for whatever reason, remains the IDE I want to use if I have to write Windows-specific C++.</p><p>Frankly, I don't *want* to use VC6, just like I don't want to put a bottle of lead-substitute into my gas tank every time I fill up, it's just that it has that perfect mix of speed, usefulness, and the ability to get out of my way that none of the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.net versions have been able to capture.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>VC6 , to me , is the '57 Chevy of IDEs ; it 's out of date , lacking in features , is n't to everyone 's tastes , but just keeps on runnin ' with a strange magic that Microsoft has never been able to reproduce in its later versions .
I 've used every VS version since 2 , and all the versions after 6 were plagued by bugginess , general slowness , and , here 's the real subjective part , a feeling of fragility that I never experienced with VC6 .
I have used VS8 quite a bit and while I appreciate having a more up-to-date compiler ( stupid BS " security warnings " aside ) , VC6 still , for whatever reason , remains the IDE I want to use if I have to write Windows-specific C + + .Frankly , I do n't * want * to use VC6 , just like I do n't want to put a bottle of lead-substitute into my gas tank every time I fill up , it 's just that it has that perfect mix of speed , usefulness , and the ability to get out of my way that none of the .net versions have been able to capture .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>VC6, to me, is the '57 Chevy of IDEs; it's out of date, lacking in features, isn't to everyone's tastes, but just keeps on runnin' with a strange magic that Microsoft has never been able to reproduce in its later versions.
I've used every VS version since 2, and all the versions after 6 were plagued by bugginess, general slowness, and, here's the real subjective part, a feeling of fragility that I never experienced with VC6.
I have used VS8 quite a bit and while I appreciate having a more up-to-date compiler (stupid BS "security warnings" aside), VC6 still, for whatever reason, remains the IDE I want to use if I have to write Windows-specific C++.Frankly, I don't *want* to use VC6, just like I don't want to put a bottle of lead-substitute into my gas tank every time I fill up, it's just that it has that perfect mix of speed, usefulness, and the ability to get out of my way that none of the .net versions have been able to capture.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228433</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>Xest</author>
	<datestamp>1244202180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yes, it has much better intellisense which is the most glaring feature because it's the one that you encounter every second whilst programming.</p><p>Makes writing code a breeze, as a fairly fast touch typist, not having to type the full variable never ever because the intellisense is generally good enough to get the right variable/function name the first time (due to the fact it narrows down not just by name, but by context) I can churn out code like no tommorrow. You can put together a full, fairly complex line of code with only a few keypresses.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yes , it has much better intellisense which is the most glaring feature because it 's the one that you encounter every second whilst programming.Makes writing code a breeze , as a fairly fast touch typist , not having to type the full variable never ever because the intellisense is generally good enough to get the right variable/function name the first time ( due to the fact it narrows down not just by name , but by context ) I can churn out code like no tommorrow .
You can put together a full , fairly complex line of code with only a few keypresses .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yes, it has much better intellisense which is the most glaring feature because it's the one that you encounter every second whilst programming.Makes writing code a breeze, as a fairly fast touch typist, not having to type the full variable never ever because the intellisense is generally good enough to get the right variable/function name the first time (due to the fact it narrows down not just by name, but by context) I can churn out code like no tommorrow.
You can put together a full, fairly complex line of code with only a few keypresses.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227757</id>
	<title>Re:More security?</title>
	<author>rob1980</author>
	<datestamp>1244197620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><i>Does it already (partially?) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environment?</i> <br> <br>Visual Studio picks through whatever classes you write and adds support for them to Intellisense.  Maybe they've observed security issues with that in the past?</htmltext>
<tokenext>Does it already ( partially ?
) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environment ?
Visual Studio picks through whatever classes you write and adds support for them to Intellisense .
Maybe they 've observed security issues with that in the past ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Does it already (partially?
) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environment?
Visual Studio picks through whatever classes you write and adds support for them to Intellisense.
Maybe they've observed security issues with that in the past?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227715</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227925</id>
	<title>programming environment for dummies</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244198700000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>it is just needed like everything else.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>it is just needed like everything else .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>it is just needed like everything else.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228523</id>
	<title>Whatever.</title>
	<author>schmidt349</author>
	<datestamp>1244202900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Microsoft: charging you $629 for a developer platform worst than most of the ones that come free.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Microsoft : charging you $ 629 for a developer platform worst than most of the ones that come free .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Microsoft: charging you $629 for a developer platform worst than most of the ones that come free.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229173</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone still using Visual Studio 6?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244208960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Isn't it possible that what is happening is that you got used to VC6 and you just don't have the will power to get to use anything else?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Is n't it possible that what is happening is that you got used to VC6 and you just do n't have the will power to get to use anything else ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Isn't it possible that what is happening is that you got used to VC6 and you just don't have the will power to get to use anything else?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228105</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28230163</id>
	<title>Fork/Join in Java</title>
	<author>guardia</author>
	<datestamp>1244223360000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Java 7 will have something very similar, called the fork/join framework:
<a href="http://developers.sun.com/learning/javaoneonline/j1sessn.jsp?sessn=TS-5515&amp;yr=2008&amp;track=javase" title="sun.com" rel="nofollow">http://developers.sun.com/learning/javaoneonline/j1sessn.jsp?sessn=TS-5515&amp;yr=2008&amp;track=javase</a> [sun.com]

Doug Lea also offers a preliminary package for Java 6 that can be downloaded from here:
<a href="http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/concurrency-interest/" title="oswego.edu" rel="nofollow">http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/concurrency-interest/</a> [oswego.edu]</htmltext>
<tokenext>Java 7 will have something very similar , called the fork/join framework : http : //developers.sun.com/learning/javaoneonline/j1sessn.jsp ? sessn = TS-5515&amp;yr = 2008&amp;track = javase [ sun.com ] Doug Lea also offers a preliminary package for Java 6 that can be downloaded from here : http : //gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/concurrency-interest/ [ oswego.edu ]</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Java 7 will have something very similar, called the fork/join framework:
http://developers.sun.com/learning/javaoneonline/j1sessn.jsp?sessn=TS-5515&amp;yr=2008&amp;track=javase [sun.com]

Doug Lea also offers a preliminary package for Java 6 that can be downloaded from here:
http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/concurrency-interest/ [oswego.edu]</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28240127</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone still using Visual Studio 6?</title>
	<author>robindch</author>
	<datestamp>1244371920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Yep, still using VC6 ten years and half a million lines of C++ later.  Don't want to, but heavens above, it's a productive, fast and rock-solid environment.  I've installed the later compilers and got my gear up and running.  Kind of.  But the later compilers feel flaky, jerky and brittle.  And none of them have ClassWizard, which which you can drive with the keyboard.  Fast.
<p>
I'll install VC2010 and who knows, perhaps I'll switch.  I'd like to, but MS, please make it easy!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yep , still using VC6 ten years and half a million lines of C + + later .
Do n't want to , but heavens above , it 's a productive , fast and rock-solid environment .
I 've installed the later compilers and got my gear up and running .
Kind of .
But the later compilers feel flaky , jerky and brittle .
And none of them have ClassWizard , which which you can drive with the keyboard .
Fast . I 'll install VC2010 and who knows , perhaps I 'll switch .
I 'd like to , but MS , please make it easy !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yep, still using VC6 ten years and half a million lines of C++ later.
Don't want to, but heavens above, it's a productive, fast and rock-solid environment.
I've installed the later compilers and got my gear up and running.
Kind of.
But the later compilers feel flaky, jerky and brittle.
And none of them have ClassWizard, which which you can drive with the keyboard.
Fast.

I'll install VC2010 and who knows, perhaps I'll switch.
I'd like to, but MS, please make it easy!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228105</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228435</id>
	<title>Anybody writing plugins for 3ds Max 2010...</title>
	<author>Animaether</author>
	<datestamp>1244202180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Anybody writing plugins for 3ds Max 2010 will have upgraded to 2008, as you practically need 2008 to compile your code into plugins compatible with that release of 3ds Max.</p><p>That's a small market, but it serves as a demonstration that there's probably more people using 2008 - maybe not altogether by choice, as in this case - than you'd think.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Anybody writing plugins for 3ds Max 2010 will have upgraded to 2008 , as you practically need 2008 to compile your code into plugins compatible with that release of 3ds Max.That 's a small market , but it serves as a demonstration that there 's probably more people using 2008 - maybe not altogether by choice , as in this case - than you 'd think .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Anybody writing plugins for 3ds Max 2010 will have upgraded to 2008, as you practically need 2008 to compile your code into plugins compatible with that release of 3ds Max.That's a small market, but it serves as a demonstration that there's probably more people using 2008 - maybe not altogether by choice, as in this case - than you'd think.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228595</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244203380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Funny, because I don't know anyone who hasn't upgraded yet.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Funny , because I do n't know anyone who has n't upgraded yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Funny, because I don't know anyone who hasn't upgraded yet.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28231617</id>
	<title>F# is interesting, but it's not free</title>
	<author>Ed Avis</author>
	<datestamp>1244290200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Knowing that F# came out of Microsoft Research and that some other<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET code has been released as free software by Microsoft in the past, I was hoping that the F# compiler would be free software too.  Sadly this is not the case - at least as far as the licence in fsharp.zip <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=7bb32f32-9fac-4f34-ad56-b0bda130cf00&amp;displaylang=en" title="microsoft.com">here</a> [microsoft.com] is concerned; it's distributable for non-commercial use only.  So while F# looks very interesting, for now it's something of a Microsoft lock-in, and I won't be adopting it because it removes the possibility of porting to Mono.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Knowing that F # came out of Microsoft Research and that some other .NET code has been released as free software by Microsoft in the past , I was hoping that the F # compiler would be free software too .
Sadly this is not the case - at least as far as the licence in fsharp.zip here [ microsoft.com ] is concerned ; it 's distributable for non-commercial use only .
So while F # looks very interesting , for now it 's something of a Microsoft lock-in , and I wo n't be adopting it because it removes the possibility of porting to Mono .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Knowing that F# came out of Microsoft Research and that some other .NET code has been released as free software by Microsoft in the past, I was hoping that the F# compiler would be free software too.
Sadly this is not the case - at least as far as the licence in fsharp.zip here [microsoft.com] is concerned; it's distributable for non-commercial use only.
So while F# looks very interesting, for now it's something of a Microsoft lock-in, and I won't be adopting it because it removes the possibility of porting to Mono.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227885</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227781</id>
	<title>Re:More security?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244197860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>The visual designer actually instantiates the backing class and executes its constructor when opened for editing, to be able to render the component in a wysiwyg fashion.</htmltext>
<tokenext>The visual designer actually instantiates the backing class and executes its constructor when opened for editing , to be able to render the component in a wysiwyg fashion .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The visual designer actually instantiates the backing class and executes its constructor when opened for editing, to be able to render the component in a wysiwyg fashion.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227715</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228133</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244200200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I have upgraded to VS 2008 (It required much teeth pulling and a 'conference' with 'The Architect' out back with a baseball bat).  The best things available out of the box with VS 2008 are these: Target multiple versions of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET Framework (2008 can work with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET 2.0, 3.0 and 3.5, no more direct correlation between<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET and VS versions), WCF and LINQ.  The interface seems to be a bit more stable too, but I digress...</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I have upgraded to VS 2008 ( It required much teeth pulling and a 'conference ' with 'The Architect ' out back with a baseball bat ) .
The best things available out of the box with VS 2008 are these : Target multiple versions of .NET Framework ( 2008 can work with .NET 2.0 , 3.0 and 3.5 , no more direct correlation between .NET and VS versions ) , WCF and LINQ .
The interface seems to be a bit more stable too , but I digress.. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I have upgraded to VS 2008 (It required much teeth pulling and a 'conference' with 'The Architect' out back with a baseball bat).
The best things available out of the box with VS 2008 are these: Target multiple versions of .NET Framework (2008 can work with .NET 2.0, 3.0 and 3.5, no more direct correlation between .NET and VS versions), WCF and LINQ.
The interface seems to be a bit more stable too, but I digress...</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227785</id>
	<title>Let me get this out of the way...</title>
	<author>not already in use</author>
	<datestamp>1244197860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Redundant</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>In an attempt to allow actual discussion, let me take care of all the typical, canned, tired replies to this story so that we can just get them out of the way:<ul>
<li>Lame chair throwing reference!</li><li>Liberal use of M$</li><li>....Bloat....Resources....vim....gdb</li><li>Uninformed opinion due to the fact that I've never used Visual Studio</li></ul><p>

Now... on to the real discussion!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>In an attempt to allow actual discussion , let me take care of all the typical , canned , tired replies to this story so that we can just get them out of the way : Lame chair throwing reference ! Liberal use of M $ ....Bloat....Resources....vim....gdbUninformed opinion due to the fact that I 've never used Visual Studio Now... on to the real discussion !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In an attempt to allow actual discussion, let me take care of all the typical, canned, tired replies to this story so that we can just get them out of the way:
Lame chair throwing reference!Liberal use of M$....Bloat....Resources....vim....gdbUninformed opinion due to the fact that I've never used Visual Studio

Now... on to the real discussion!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28231643</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone still using Visual Studio 6?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244290680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You left out another ironic similarity of VS6 to old muscle cars - it was the last VS release produced in America, by the "old guard" of MS programmers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>That probably also explains the slowness and general "blah" feeling of newer VS releases - outsourced codemonkeys getting a 1000page spec from Redmond, writing a bunch of "object oriented" code (like a big java project, you know the deal).</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You left out another ironic similarity of VS6 to old muscle cars - it was the last VS release produced in America , by the " old guard " of MS programmers : ) That probably also explains the slowness and general " blah " feeling of newer VS releases - outsourced codemonkeys getting a 1000page spec from Redmond , writing a bunch of " object oriented " code ( like a big java project , you know the deal ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You left out another ironic similarity of VS6 to old muscle cars - it was the last VS release produced in America, by the "old guard" of MS programmers :)That probably also explains the slowness and general "blah" feeling of newer VS releases - outsourced codemonkeys getting a 1000page spec from Redmond, writing a bunch of "object oriented" code (like a big java project, you know the deal).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228105</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227801</id>
	<title>Re:More security?</title>
	<author>Mr2001</author>
	<datestamp>1244197920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Look at that fourth screenshot. What possible harm could loading a project do, I wonder? Does it already (partially?) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environment? Is this an attempt to banish evil compilers from accidentally compiling source?</p></div><p>As it says right there in the screenshot, the possible harm is from custom build steps.</p><p>Unix developers are already used to this, because makefiles have the same risks: if you untar an untrusted project and type "make", you might find that one of the build steps erases your home directory.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Look at that fourth screenshot .
What possible harm could loading a project do , I wonder ?
Does it already ( partially ?
) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environment ?
Is this an attempt to banish evil compilers from accidentally compiling source ? As it says right there in the screenshot , the possible harm is from custom build steps.Unix developers are already used to this , because makefiles have the same risks : if you untar an untrusted project and type " make " , you might find that one of the build steps erases your home directory .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Look at that fourth screenshot.
What possible harm could loading a project do, I wonder?
Does it already (partially?
) execute even when it is just sitting there in the development environment?
Is this an attempt to banish evil compilers from accidentally compiling source?As it says right there in the screenshot, the possible harm is from custom build steps.Unix developers are already used to this, because makefiles have the same risks: if you untar an untrusted project and type "make", you might find that one of the build steps erases your home directory.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227715</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227839</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>sys.stdout.write</author>
	<datestamp>1244198100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext>We run it at work.  It is pretty much the same as VS 2005.  The only relevant advantage that I see is access to the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET 3.5 Framework, which may or may not matter to you depending on what you guys program.</htmltext>
<tokenext>We run it at work .
It is pretty much the same as VS 2005 .
The only relevant advantage that I see is access to the .NET 3.5 Framework , which may or may not matter to you depending on what you guys program .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We run it at work.
It is pretty much the same as VS 2005.
The only relevant advantage that I see is access to the .NET 3.5 Framework, which may or may not matter to you depending on what you guys program.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229323</id>
	<title>Re:Whatever.</title>
	<author>pete6677</author>
	<datestamp>1244211660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>"worst than most of the ones that come free."</p><p>Such as?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>" worst than most of the ones that come free .
" Such as ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>"worst than most of the ones that come free.
"Such as?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28228523</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</id>
	<title>Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>tylersoze</author>
	<datestamp>1244197680000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Heck no one I've worked with has even upgraded to 2008 yet, it's been either VS 2005 or 2003.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Heck no one I 've worked with has even upgraded to 2008 yet , it 's been either VS 2005 or 2003 .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Heck no one I've worked with has even upgraded to 2008 yet, it's been either VS 2005 or 2003.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227875</id>
	<title>Re:Anyone even using VS 2008 yet?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1244198400000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Visual C++ hasn't changed much since VS 2002. In fact it looks abandoned compared to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET languages, it has worse Intellisense, debugging and code formatting. And no refactoring or decent GUI toolkit. Both MFC and Win32 API are incredibly difficult to code.</p><p>2008 has a lot of nice features, but only for<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Visual C + + has n't changed much since VS 2002 .
In fact it looks abandoned compared to .NET languages , it has worse Intellisense , debugging and code formatting .
And no refactoring or decent GUI toolkit .
Both MFC and Win32 API are incredibly difficult to code.2008 has a lot of nice features , but only for .NET .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Visual C++ hasn't changed much since VS 2002.
In fact it looks abandoned compared to .NET languages, it has worse Intellisense, debugging and code formatting.
And no refactoring or decent GUI toolkit.
Both MFC and Win32 API are incredibly difficult to code.2008 has a lot of nice features, but only for .NET.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227761</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28234453</id>
	<title>Re:What's VS? IDE vs. VM vs. platform?</title>
	<author>Rycross</author>
	<datestamp>1244313240000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>It has an "editor with a compiler" (and code/keyword completion), and integrated debugger (huge), refactoring tools, sdks (compiler, libraries, tools), integrated unit testing, and project management.  Your definition of an IDE is pretty far off base.</htmltext>
<tokenext>It has an " editor with a compiler " ( and code/keyword completion ) , and integrated debugger ( huge ) , refactoring tools , sdks ( compiler , libraries , tools ) , integrated unit testing , and project management .
Your definition of an IDE is pretty far off base .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It has an "editor with a compiler" (and code/keyword completion), and integrated debugger (huge), refactoring tools, sdks (compiler, libraries, tools), integrated unit testing, and project management.
Your definition of an IDE is pretty far off base.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28231901</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227979</id>
	<title>Regarding C++</title>
	<author>xquark</author>
	<datestamp>1244199120000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Compatibility and conformance with standards (TR1), also going that extra step forward and implementing some of the upcoming 0x features I can truly say that since VS05 MS has gone a long way. WRT Language/IDE/Debug integration nothing comes close in the OSS world for the C++ language (and please don't say CDT, I've tried using 5 and it can't even do the simple C++ syntax properly let alone templates or even simple metaprograms).</p><p>Disappointing/sad thing with VS10 is that a lot of the interesting source code metric/analysis stuff is only available for C++\CLI. For pure C++ code metrics I've been pinning my hopes for the past 5 years on someone getting around to implementing to-do #6 of doxygen.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Compatibility and conformance with standards ( TR1 ) , also going that extra step forward and implementing some of the upcoming 0x features I can truly say that since VS05 MS has gone a long way .
WRT Language/IDE/Debug integration nothing comes close in the OSS world for the C + + language ( and please do n't say CDT , I 've tried using 5 and it ca n't even do the simple C + + syntax properly let alone templates or even simple metaprograms ) .Disappointing/sad thing with VS10 is that a lot of the interesting source code metric/analysis stuff is only available for C + + \ CLI .
For pure C + + code metrics I 've been pinning my hopes for the past 5 years on someone getting around to implementing to-do # 6 of doxygen .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Compatibility and conformance with standards (TR1), also going that extra step forward and implementing some of the upcoming 0x features I can truly say that since VS05 MS has gone a long way.
WRT Language/IDE/Debug integration nothing comes close in the OSS world for the C++ language (and please don't say CDT, I've tried using 5 and it can't even do the simple C++ syntax properly let alone templates or even simple metaprograms).Disappointing/sad thing with VS10 is that a lot of the interesting source code metric/analysis stuff is only available for C++\CLI.
For pure C++ code metrics I've been pinning my hopes for the past 5 years on someone getting around to implementing to-do #6 of doxygen.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28229891</id>
	<title>No Silverlight 3 either</title>
	<author>enantiomer2000</author>
	<datestamp>1244219280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I also believe that VS2010 Beta doesn't support the Silverlight 3 or RIA Services release that is out just yet.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I also believe that VS2010 Beta does n't support the Silverlight 3 or RIA Services release that is out just yet .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I also believe that VS2010 Beta doesn't support the Silverlight 3 or RIA Services release that is out just yet.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227741</id>
	<title>Re:oh</title>
	<author>DragonWriter</author>
	<datestamp>1244197500000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><blockquote><div><p>He also notes that the beta still lacks support for ASP.Net MVC, smart devices, and the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net Micro Framework.</p></div></blockquote><p>So what does it do then, exactly??</p></div></blockquote><p>Traditional non-web programming for the desktop/laptop (that is, not a resource-constrained mobile device or embedded system) environment?</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>He also notes that the beta still lacks support for ASP.Net MVC , smart devices , and the .Net Micro Framework.So what does it do then , exactly ?
? Traditional non-web programming for the desktop/laptop ( that is , not a resource-constrained mobile device or embedded system ) environment ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>He also notes that the beta still lacks support for ASP.Net MVC, smart devices, and the .Net Micro Framework.So what does it do then, exactly?
?Traditional non-web programming for the desktop/laptop (that is, not a resource-constrained mobile device or embedded system) environment?
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_06_05_1956211.28227647</parent>
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