<article>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#article09_05_27_2214246</id>
	<title>High-Tech Start-Ups Put Down Roots In New Soil</title>
	<author>samzenpus</author>
	<datestamp>1243424460000</datestamp>
	<htmltext><a href="http://www.seliger.com/" rel="nofollow">ThousandStars</a> writes <i>"The Wall Street Journal says that 'High-tech start-ups are increasingly <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124329530359452757.html?mod=googlenews\_wsj">setting up shop in places previously not known for attracting high-tech firms</a>. A number of cities, such as Kalamazoo, Mich., and Toledo, Ohio, are offering grant money and tax breaks to high-tech start-ups, just as the usual venture-capital hot spots, such as Silicon Valley and Boston, continue to see a pullback in venture lending.""</i></htmltext>
<tokenext>ThousandStars writes " The Wall Street Journal says that 'High-tech start-ups are increasingly setting up shop in places previously not known for attracting high-tech firms .
A number of cities , such as Kalamazoo , Mich. , and Toledo , Ohio , are offering grant money and tax breaks to high-tech start-ups , just as the usual venture-capital hot spots , such as Silicon Valley and Boston , continue to see a pullback in venture lending .
" "</tokentext>
<sentencetext>ThousandStars writes "The Wall Street Journal says that 'High-tech start-ups are increasingly setting up shop in places previously not known for attracting high-tech firms.
A number of cities, such as Kalamazoo, Mich., and Toledo, Ohio, are offering grant money and tax breaks to high-tech start-ups, just as the usual venture-capital hot spots, such as Silicon Valley and Boston, continue to see a pullback in venture lending.
""</sentencetext>
</article>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28119467</id>
	<title>More on Relocation</title>
	<author>tengu1sd</author>
	<datestamp>1243448040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I was part of a company in San Diego that was acquired by a group in Overland Park Kansas.  They had a habit making offers to move to Kansas with no relocation package.  You can take a tax break. State of Kansas or state of unemployment deals.  After 3 to 6 months of cross training the immigrants from California were laid off.  Repeat with the remaining body count.  I turned down several of these deals, it was an attractive deal, but unemployment 10 minutes from the beach is better than unemployment in the middle of Jesus County.  I wound up doing some fast and dirty consulting work after my layoff which turned into a nice little group with some of my comrades from the original team.  Seems the new company won't do any custom work, every customer has to use the same package build.  We can't build on their code, but we can customize around the data and extend functionality.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I was part of a company in San Diego that was acquired by a group in Overland Park Kansas .
They had a habit making offers to move to Kansas with no relocation package .
You can take a tax break .
State of Kansas or state of unemployment deals .
After 3 to 6 months of cross training the immigrants from California were laid off .
Repeat with the remaining body count .
I turned down several of these deals , it was an attractive deal , but unemployment 10 minutes from the beach is better than unemployment in the middle of Jesus County .
I wound up doing some fast and dirty consulting work after my layoff which turned into a nice little group with some of my comrades from the original team .
Seems the new company wo n't do any custom work , every customer has to use the same package build .
We ca n't build on their code , but we can customize around the data and extend functionality .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I was part of a company in San Diego that was acquired by a group in Overland Park Kansas.
They had a habit making offers to move to Kansas with no relocation package.
You can take a tax break.
State of Kansas or state of unemployment deals.
After 3 to 6 months of cross training the immigrants from California were laid off.
Repeat with the remaining body count.
I turned down several of these deals, it was an attractive deal, but unemployment 10 minutes from the beach is better than unemployment in the middle of Jesus County.
I wound up doing some fast and dirty consulting work after my layoff which turned into a nice little group with some of my comrades from the original team.
Seems the new company won't do any custom work, every customer has to use the same package build.
We can't build on their code, but we can customize around the data and extend functionality.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28125757</id>
	<title>Re:To create a self-sustaining hi-tech center ...</title>
	<author>Doctor Faustus</author>
	<datestamp>1243534140000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I live in Detroit, but my company is headquartered in Long Beach, CA, and my employment agreement specifically said the "We own everything" clause was limited by the California labor laws (it even included a copy of it at the back).  I checked with an IP lawyer that it really would be limited that way when I wasn't in California, and was much happier about signing on.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I live in Detroit , but my company is headquartered in Long Beach , CA , and my employment agreement specifically said the " We own everything " clause was limited by the California labor laws ( it even included a copy of it at the back ) .
I checked with an IP lawyer that it really would be limited that way when I was n't in California , and was much happier about signing on .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I live in Detroit, but my company is headquartered in Long Beach, CA, and my employment agreement specifically said the "We own everything" clause was limited by the California labor laws (it even included a copy of it at the back).
I checked with an IP lawyer that it really would be limited that way when I wasn't in California, and was much happier about signing on.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118893</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117467</id>
	<title>Look At Pittsburgh, Though</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243430220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's only become one of the top places in medicine on the planet.  That's pretty good for an old steel town.</p><p>It is possible to build out the educational and corporate infrastructure in a "cheaper" place.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's only become one of the top places in medicine on the planet .
That 's pretty good for an old steel town.It is possible to build out the educational and corporate infrastructure in a " cheaper " place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's only become one of the top places in medicine on the planet.
That's pretty good for an old steel town.It is possible to build out the educational and corporate infrastructure in a "cheaper" place.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117391</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118915</id>
	<title>Technology and internet access</title>
	<author>phorm</author>
	<datestamp>1243442100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Actually, it's quite interesting to see how - in terms of infrastructure - smaller cities compare to the big ones. Two years ago, I lived in a city (my hometown) of about 85,000 in BC, Canada. Internet access was generally quite fast, especially with cable providers, etc for residential. Around when I was leaving, the city in conjunction with various local businesses had been in the process of laying fiber in all areas.</p><p>After that I moved to Toronto, Ontario (population over 2,500,000). Internet and telecommunications infrastructure sucked there. Bell seems to have little motivation to upgrade lines, meaning DSL outside of certain major downtown areas could not reliably offer high speeds, either for businesses or residences. Not only that, but Bell's throttling of third-party connections was a nightmare, not just for home-user torrents, but for SSL-tunnelled connections to/from my workplace when telecommuting.</p><p>Rogers was the local cableco provided and I'd heard of similar issues with them: poor service, bad cabling, and weird issues due to throttling. I know of at least one business that bounced between Bell, Rogers, and a third-party (DSL, so unbeknownst to them still going through Bell) provider trying to get reliable connectivity.</p><p>Local tech shops had more deals and cool small items. Things like monitors or PC's/laptops weren't much of a deal though, and customer service STANK. Got a new LCD with dead pixels out of the box, and a fairly major local retailer (yes, I'm looking at you Canada Computers) refused to exchanged it. I know for a fact my local shop in the previous city would have done so.</p><p>Now I'm in back in a smaller city/town of around populatimainon 30,000. No long commutes to work. Internet via cable is fast. There's a local wifi provider who gets rather impressive speeds to all sorts of weird areas around town, and they're continuously improving service. Rent and property costs are a lot lower.</p><p>I was just musing whether it would be possible to setup a datacentre downtown. There are quite a number of buildings with space that might fit a small DC as long as the power requirements were met, though I've yet to investigate what the local providers offer for large commercial trunks.</p><p>Big cities are overrated. When I moved to Toronto I expected to find myself able to do all sorts of things, but the reality was with the longer commutes, extra work hours, and almost universally crappy service. Here, people tend to be more honest (in a smaller city you can't get away with as much without it becoming known eventually), and the quality of life is better. There may not be a huge glass-covered shopping multiplex within 10 minutes drive, but for that sort of thing a bigger city is still within driving range, and really the local stores aren't that bad except when it comes to stuff like furniture etc, and my iPhone only gets 2G service (until next year).</p><p>Screw big cities.Businesses should invest in local communities at smaller locations. Power and rent are cheaper here. Connectivity seems in many cases better. There will be likely be less location-related expenses, and I've found that there are still plenty of tech-savvy citizens available to work there, and even a good share of front-line grunts for phone support etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Actually , it 's quite interesting to see how - in terms of infrastructure - smaller cities compare to the big ones .
Two years ago , I lived in a city ( my hometown ) of about 85,000 in BC , Canada .
Internet access was generally quite fast , especially with cable providers , etc for residential .
Around when I was leaving , the city in conjunction with various local businesses had been in the process of laying fiber in all areas.After that I moved to Toronto , Ontario ( population over 2,500,000 ) .
Internet and telecommunications infrastructure sucked there .
Bell seems to have little motivation to upgrade lines , meaning DSL outside of certain major downtown areas could not reliably offer high speeds , either for businesses or residences .
Not only that , but Bell 's throttling of third-party connections was a nightmare , not just for home-user torrents , but for SSL-tunnelled connections to/from my workplace when telecommuting.Rogers was the local cableco provided and I 'd heard of similar issues with them : poor service , bad cabling , and weird issues due to throttling .
I know of at least one business that bounced between Bell , Rogers , and a third-party ( DSL , so unbeknownst to them still going through Bell ) provider trying to get reliable connectivity.Local tech shops had more deals and cool small items .
Things like monitors or PC 's/laptops were n't much of a deal though , and customer service STANK .
Got a new LCD with dead pixels out of the box , and a fairly major local retailer ( yes , I 'm looking at you Canada Computers ) refused to exchanged it .
I know for a fact my local shop in the previous city would have done so.Now I 'm in back in a smaller city/town of around populatimainon 30,000 .
No long commutes to work .
Internet via cable is fast .
There 's a local wifi provider who gets rather impressive speeds to all sorts of weird areas around town , and they 're continuously improving service .
Rent and property costs are a lot lower.I was just musing whether it would be possible to setup a datacentre downtown .
There are quite a number of buildings with space that might fit a small DC as long as the power requirements were met , though I 've yet to investigate what the local providers offer for large commercial trunks.Big cities are overrated .
When I moved to Toronto I expected to find myself able to do all sorts of things , but the reality was with the longer commutes , extra work hours , and almost universally crappy service .
Here , people tend to be more honest ( in a smaller city you ca n't get away with as much without it becoming known eventually ) , and the quality of life is better .
There may not be a huge glass-covered shopping multiplex within 10 minutes drive , but for that sort of thing a bigger city is still within driving range , and really the local stores are n't that bad except when it comes to stuff like furniture etc , and my iPhone only gets 2G service ( until next year ) .Screw big cities.Businesses should invest in local communities at smaller locations .
Power and rent are cheaper here .
Connectivity seems in many cases better .
There will be likely be less location-related expenses , and I 've found that there are still plenty of tech-savvy citizens available to work there , and even a good share of front-line grunts for phone support etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Actually, it's quite interesting to see how - in terms of infrastructure - smaller cities compare to the big ones.
Two years ago, I lived in a city (my hometown) of about 85,000 in BC, Canada.
Internet access was generally quite fast, especially with cable providers, etc for residential.
Around when I was leaving, the city in conjunction with various local businesses had been in the process of laying fiber in all areas.After that I moved to Toronto, Ontario (population over 2,500,000).
Internet and telecommunications infrastructure sucked there.
Bell seems to have little motivation to upgrade lines, meaning DSL outside of certain major downtown areas could not reliably offer high speeds, either for businesses or residences.
Not only that, but Bell's throttling of third-party connections was a nightmare, not just for home-user torrents, but for SSL-tunnelled connections to/from my workplace when telecommuting.Rogers was the local cableco provided and I'd heard of similar issues with them: poor service, bad cabling, and weird issues due to throttling.
I know of at least one business that bounced between Bell, Rogers, and a third-party (DSL, so unbeknownst to them still going through Bell) provider trying to get reliable connectivity.Local tech shops had more deals and cool small items.
Things like monitors or PC's/laptops weren't much of a deal though, and customer service STANK.
Got a new LCD with dead pixels out of the box, and a fairly major local retailer (yes, I'm looking at you Canada Computers) refused to exchanged it.
I know for a fact my local shop in the previous city would have done so.Now I'm in back in a smaller city/town of around populatimainon 30,000.
No long commutes to work.
Internet via cable is fast.
There's a local wifi provider who gets rather impressive speeds to all sorts of weird areas around town, and they're continuously improving service.
Rent and property costs are a lot lower.I was just musing whether it would be possible to setup a datacentre downtown.
There are quite a number of buildings with space that might fit a small DC as long as the power requirements were met, though I've yet to investigate what the local providers offer for large commercial trunks.Big cities are overrated.
When I moved to Toronto I expected to find myself able to do all sorts of things, but the reality was with the longer commutes, extra work hours, and almost universally crappy service.
Here, people tend to be more honest (in a smaller city you can't get away with as much without it becoming known eventually), and the quality of life is better.
There may not be a huge glass-covered shopping multiplex within 10 minutes drive, but for that sort of thing a bigger city is still within driving range, and really the local stores aren't that bad except when it comes to stuff like furniture etc, and my iPhone only gets 2G service (until next year).Screw big cities.Businesses should invest in local communities at smaller locations.
Power and rent are cheaper here.
Connectivity seems in many cases better.
There will be likely be less location-related expenses, and I've found that there are still plenty of tech-savvy citizens available to work there, and even a good share of front-line grunts for phone support etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117193</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117725</id>
	<title>Re:I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>grepya</author>
	<datestamp>1243431960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p> They decided who they wanted from the eated company</p></div></blockquote><blockquote><div><p>...most of them are still there today, even though their company eventually got eated by a European company...</p></div></blockquote><p>

      Will I have to surrender my usage and grammar books at the border if I move to Minnesota ?

(sorry for being a language nazi, but the second and third repetition of "eated" really grated..)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They decided who they wanted from the eated company...most of them are still there today , even though their company eventually got eated by a European company.. . Will I have to surrender my usage and grammar books at the border if I move to Minnesota ?
( sorry for being a language nazi , but the second and third repetition of " eated " really grated.. )</tokentext>
<sentencetext> They decided who they wanted from the eated company...most of them are still there today, even though their company eventually got eated by a European company...

      Will I have to surrender my usage and grammar books at the border if I move to Minnesota ?
(sorry for being a language nazi, but the second and third repetition of "eated" really grated..)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118779</id>
	<title>Re:pop. 600,000 (and up)</title>
	<author>SunFireSpaz</author>
	<datestamp>1243440660000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I would not look at just a cities population, but rather look at Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSA).<br>See &lt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table\_of\_United\_States\_Metropolitan\_Statistical\_Areas&gt;.  I think that gives a better representation of potential jobs.<br><br>Note that Kalamazoo's MSA is rated 148 if sorted by population (323,264).  Ann Arbor's is 141 a mere 26,739 more (350,003).<br><br>Within a hour's drive there is also Grand Rapids (66th by pop. - 776,742), Lansing/East Lansing (106th - 456,440), South Bend, IN (149th - 316,639), Holland/Grand Haven (171th - 259,206), Niles/Benton Harbor (251th - 159,589), and Battle Creek (293th - 136,615).  So within about an hour's drive you have a population of about 2.5 million.  Not bad.  This puts this area between to Orlando-Deltona-Daytona Beach, FL CAS (2,693,552), Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA CSA (2,446,703).</htmltext>
<tokenext>I would not look at just a cities population , but rather look at Metropolitan Statistical Areas ( MSA ) .See .
I think that gives a better representation of potential jobs.Note that Kalamazoo 's MSA is rated 148 if sorted by population ( 323,264 ) .
Ann Arbor 's is 141 a mere 26,739 more ( 350,003 ) .Within a hour 's drive there is also Grand Rapids ( 66th by pop .
- 776,742 ) , Lansing/East Lansing ( 106th - 456,440 ) , South Bend , IN ( 149th - 316,639 ) , Holland/Grand Haven ( 171th - 259,206 ) , Niles/Benton Harbor ( 251th - 159,589 ) , and Battle Creek ( 293th - 136,615 ) .
So within about an hour 's drive you have a population of about 2.5 million .
Not bad .
This puts this area between to Orlando-Deltona-Daytona Beach , FL CAS ( 2,693,552 ) , Pittsburgh-New Castle , PA CSA ( 2,446,703 ) .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I would not look at just a cities population, but rather look at Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSA).See .
I think that gives a better representation of potential jobs.Note that Kalamazoo's MSA is rated 148 if sorted by population (323,264).
Ann Arbor's is 141 a mere 26,739 more (350,003).Within a hour's drive there is also Grand Rapids (66th by pop.
- 776,742), Lansing/East Lansing (106th - 456,440), South Bend, IN (149th - 316,639), Holland/Grand Haven (171th - 259,206), Niles/Benton Harbor (251th - 159,589), and Battle Creek (293th - 136,615).
So within about an hour's drive you have a population of about 2.5 million.
Not bad.
This puts this area between to Orlando-Deltona-Daytona Beach, FL CAS (2,693,552), Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA CSA (2,446,703).</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118073</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118875</id>
	<title>Re:Plus...</title>
	<author>evil\_aar0n</author>
	<datestamp>1243441620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I quit Big Medical Co. in NYC back in March and had to hit the pavement, again, I noticed a lot of postings on Craigslist for Pittsburgh.  I actually went back to Big Medical Co., but I'm still keeping an eye on Pittsburgh, since it's three hours closer to home.  I'm a weekly commuter, so less time on the road is a plus.</p><p>What's PGH's claim to fame, lately?  Yeah, sure, the Steelers won #6, but that can't have a whole lot to do with it.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I quit Big Medical Co. in NYC back in March and had to hit the pavement , again , I noticed a lot of postings on Craigslist for Pittsburgh .
I actually went back to Big Medical Co. , but I 'm still keeping an eye on Pittsburgh , since it 's three hours closer to home .
I 'm a weekly commuter , so less time on the road is a plus.What 's PGH 's claim to fame , lately ?
Yeah , sure , the Steelers won # 6 , but that ca n't have a whole lot to do with it .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I quit Big Medical Co. in NYC back in March and had to hit the pavement, again, I noticed a lot of postings on Craigslist for Pittsburgh.
I actually went back to Big Medical Co., but I'm still keeping an eye on Pittsburgh, since it's three hours closer to home.
I'm a weekly commuter, so less time on the road is a plus.What's PGH's claim to fame, lately?
Yeah, sure, the Steelers won #6, but that can't have a whole lot to do with it.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117485</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118137</id>
	<title>Re:Its definitely the exception, and a rare one</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243435200000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>If you qualify for an above-average salary for a location, you're usually going to be better off working in a high-wage high-expense city due to the larger margin involved. Do that while living well below your means and it's not difficult to find yourself in your thirties with a wad of cash (not counting retirement funds) that can sustain you for ten years in a smaller and cheaper location, and your options in life open up tremendously.
<br> <br> I followed that plan into my late twenties and ended up with enough cash where I could have bought my parents' house for them. I decided to stop earlier than I expected, but only for the sake of trying my hand at entrepreneurship; if I find things not working out as I like, I'll be back to working for someone else in the big city for a few more years and then I'll probably "retire" in my mid-to-late-thirties and work on my own projects from then on. I've found that one of the keys is not to get caught up in the spending habits of those around you, who probably make similar money and tend to spend a fair chunk of it mindlessly on fleeting moments they won't remember in a month.</htmltext>
<tokenext>If you qualify for an above-average salary for a location , you 're usually going to be better off working in a high-wage high-expense city due to the larger margin involved .
Do that while living well below your means and it 's not difficult to find yourself in your thirties with a wad of cash ( not counting retirement funds ) that can sustain you for ten years in a smaller and cheaper location , and your options in life open up tremendously .
I followed that plan into my late twenties and ended up with enough cash where I could have bought my parents ' house for them .
I decided to stop earlier than I expected , but only for the sake of trying my hand at entrepreneurship ; if I find things not working out as I like , I 'll be back to working for someone else in the big city for a few more years and then I 'll probably " retire " in my mid-to-late-thirties and work on my own projects from then on .
I 've found that one of the keys is not to get caught up in the spending habits of those around you , who probably make similar money and tend to spend a fair chunk of it mindlessly on fleeting moments they wo n't remember in a month .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you qualify for an above-average salary for a location, you're usually going to be better off working in a high-wage high-expense city due to the larger margin involved.
Do that while living well below your means and it's not difficult to find yourself in your thirties with a wad of cash (not counting retirement funds) that can sustain you for ten years in a smaller and cheaper location, and your options in life open up tremendously.
I followed that plan into my late twenties and ended up with enough cash where I could have bought my parents' house for them.
I decided to stop earlier than I expected, but only for the sake of trying my hand at entrepreneurship; if I find things not working out as I like, I'll be back to working for someone else in the big city for a few more years and then I'll probably "retire" in my mid-to-late-thirties and work on my own projects from then on.
I've found that one of the keys is not to get caught up in the spending habits of those around you, who probably make similar money and tend to spend a fair chunk of it mindlessly on fleeting moments they won't remember in a month.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117291</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117193</id>
	<title>better places to work</title>
	<author>KingFeanor</author>
	<datestamp>1243428420000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I work for a big tech company from a small city in Wisconsin.  It is great.  For the company, office space is cheap, internet access is cheap, energy is cheap, salaries are less than in big cities and employees are still happy.  As an employee, I'm happy since I don't have traffic nightmares getting to work and home (I have a whole 5 minute commute), the cost of living is low (I live in a remodeled 3 bedroom home that is worth $120K) and in a small office (200 people) you can know everyone by name.  It is a win-win deal for a tech company to locate outside the major tech areas.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I work for a big tech company from a small city in Wisconsin .
It is great .
For the company , office space is cheap , internet access is cheap , energy is cheap , salaries are less than in big cities and employees are still happy .
As an employee , I 'm happy since I do n't have traffic nightmares getting to work and home ( I have a whole 5 minute commute ) , the cost of living is low ( I live in a remodeled 3 bedroom home that is worth $ 120K ) and in a small office ( 200 people ) you can know everyone by name .
It is a win-win deal for a tech company to locate outside the major tech areas .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I work for a big tech company from a small city in Wisconsin.
It is great.
For the company, office space is cheap, internet access is cheap, energy is cheap, salaries are less than in big cities and employees are still happy.
As an employee, I'm happy since I don't have traffic nightmares getting to work and home (I have a whole 5 minute commute), the cost of living is low (I live in a remodeled 3 bedroom home that is worth $120K) and in a small office (200 people) you can know everyone by name.
It is a win-win deal for a tech company to locate outside the major tech areas.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117391</id>
	<title>I'm with Paul Graham on this: it won't work.</title>
	<author>bADlOGIN</author>
	<datestamp>1243429740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Check out How to Be Silicon valley (http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html).</p><p>Based on the description of the right environment, we're not talking Kalamazoo or Toledo by<br>a long shot.  Besides, didn't people try this crap en-mass before the dot.com bust?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Check out How to Be Silicon valley ( http : //www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html ) .Based on the description of the right environment , we 're not talking Kalamazoo or Toledo bya long shot .
Besides , did n't people try this crap en-mass before the dot.com bust ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Check out How to Be Silicon valley (http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html).Based on the description of the right environment, we're not talking Kalamazoo or Toledo bya long shot.
Besides, didn't people try this crap en-mass before the dot.com bust?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117321</id>
	<title>All those funny names can only mean one thing...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243429260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Bugs Bunny is behind this!  Albuquerque and Walla-walla must be next!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Bugs Bunny is behind this !
Albuquerque and Walla-walla must be next !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Bugs Bunny is behind this!
Albuquerque and Walla-walla must be next!</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28124739</id>
	<title>Kzoo is a good place to grow up in</title>
	<author>mrcharliebrown</author>
	<datestamp>1243529940000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>I grew up near Kalamazoo, and can attest that it's a great place to raise a family.  I would have considered working there if they only had more tech jobs.  I'm pleased to see their name in the running on Slashdot and WSJ.  Michigan is much more than Detroit.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I grew up near Kalamazoo , and can attest that it 's a great place to raise a family .
I would have considered working there if they only had more tech jobs .
I 'm pleased to see their name in the running on Slashdot and WSJ .
Michigan is much more than Detroit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I grew up near Kalamazoo, and can attest that it's a great place to raise a family.
I would have considered working there if they only had more tech jobs.
I'm pleased to see their name in the running on Slashdot and WSJ.
Michigan is much more than Detroit.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117485</id>
	<title>Plus...</title>
	<author>maz2331</author>
	<datestamp>1243430280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I wouldn't move from Pittsburgh to anywhere in California for any amount of money.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I would n't move from Pittsburgh to anywhere in California for any amount of money .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I wouldn't move from Pittsburgh to anywhere in California for any amount of money.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28119451</id>
	<title>Will Silicon Valley survive?</title>
	<author>Animats</author>
	<datestamp>1243447860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>
Silicon Valley is definitely in decline.  The current recession is hurting, but that's not the real problem.  Part of the problem is that manufacturing moved out.  Venture capital
isn't doing well. Venture funds as a group are losing money, and have been for several years now.  There was one tech IPO in 2008 <i>before</i> the crash.
</p><p>
Worse, there's an idea shortage.  Here's a <a href="http://launchsiliconvalley.org/presentingc.html" title="launchsiliconvalley.org">list of companies looking for venture funding this month.</a> [launchsiliconvalley.org] "Short dial codes" "Timeshare lead generation". "People powered search" (yes, that again).  Yawn.  There's nothing in the pipe that looks like a big win even if it succeeds.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Silicon Valley is definitely in decline .
The current recession is hurting , but that 's not the real problem .
Part of the problem is that manufacturing moved out .
Venture capital is n't doing well .
Venture funds as a group are losing money , and have been for several years now .
There was one tech IPO in 2008 before the crash .
Worse , there 's an idea shortage .
Here 's a list of companies looking for venture funding this month .
[ launchsiliconvalley.org ] " Short dial codes " " Timeshare lead generation " .
" People powered search " ( yes , that again ) .
Yawn. There 's nothing in the pipe that looks like a big win even if it succeeds .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>
Silicon Valley is definitely in decline.
The current recession is hurting, but that's not the real problem.
Part of the problem is that manufacturing moved out.
Venture capital
isn't doing well.
Venture funds as a group are losing money, and have been for several years now.
There was one tech IPO in 2008 before the crash.
Worse, there's an idea shortage.
Here's a list of companies looking for venture funding this month.
[launchsiliconvalley.org] "Short dial codes" "Timeshare lead generation".
"People powered search" (yes, that again).
Yawn.  There's nothing in the pipe that looks like a big win even if it succeeds.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118893</id>
	<title>To create a self-sustaining hi-tech center ...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243441860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><i>What happens if you don't like your little tech company? uh, you're screwed. In Silicon Valley you always had a network three deep that could get you a fun, interesting job in a little bit.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... In smaller towns you're running without a safety net. If you leave the relocated tech-company, you've got the small-town mindset and businesses.</i></p><p>To create a hi-tech center you need to create the whole structure.  You can't just attract a single hi-tech company for the cheap labor, for the reasons given above.  You need job mobility - which means both a LOT of companies (along with other infrastructure such as universities) and (most importantly) the ability for the workers to move out and start their own new operation.  That last is the key to CREATING, EXPANDING, and MAINTAINING the rich mix of companies and further opportunities.</p><p>Lots of states have excellent universities, trained personnel, low taxes, fine social and recreational opportunities, etc.  But they're missing a key element that led to the creation of Silicon Valley in Califonia:  A little piece of Intellectual Property law.</p><p>In California there is a state law that overrides employment law for a "pressing state interest".  You'll find it quoted on one of the appendix pages of any California knowledge-worker employment contract:  If the employee makes an invention that is not in the company's current or expected immediate future business line, and does so without using company facilities and materials, it belongs to the EMPLOYEE.  He can move across the street, rent a garage, bing in a few of his buddies, and found a new startup to develop it.</p><p>This "budding off" mechanism, like yeast, is what created Silicon Valley's rich culture of diverse companies and employment opportunities.</p><p>If any other state wants to replicate the success of Silicon Valley, rather than providing a site for a US-internal equivalent of third-world offshoreing for a hi-tech firm, the FIRST thing they need to do is clone this bit of employment law.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What happens if you do n't like your little tech company ?
uh , you 're screwed .
In Silicon Valley you always had a network three deep that could get you a fun , interesting job in a little bit .
... In smaller towns you 're running without a safety net .
If you leave the relocated tech-company , you 've got the small-town mindset and businesses.To create a hi-tech center you need to create the whole structure .
You ca n't just attract a single hi-tech company for the cheap labor , for the reasons given above .
You need job mobility - which means both a LOT of companies ( along with other infrastructure such as universities ) and ( most importantly ) the ability for the workers to move out and start their own new operation .
That last is the key to CREATING , EXPANDING , and MAINTAINING the rich mix of companies and further opportunities.Lots of states have excellent universities , trained personnel , low taxes , fine social and recreational opportunities , etc .
But they 're missing a key element that led to the creation of Silicon Valley in Califonia : A little piece of Intellectual Property law.In California there is a state law that overrides employment law for a " pressing state interest " .
You 'll find it quoted on one of the appendix pages of any California knowledge-worker employment contract : If the employee makes an invention that is not in the company 's current or expected immediate future business line , and does so without using company facilities and materials , it belongs to the EMPLOYEE .
He can move across the street , rent a garage , bing in a few of his buddies , and found a new startup to develop it.This " budding off " mechanism , like yeast , is what created Silicon Valley 's rich culture of diverse companies and employment opportunities.If any other state wants to replicate the success of Silicon Valley , rather than providing a site for a US-internal equivalent of third-world offshoreing for a hi-tech firm , the FIRST thing they need to do is clone this bit of employment law .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What happens if you don't like your little tech company?
uh, you're screwed.
In Silicon Valley you always had a network three deep that could get you a fun, interesting job in a little bit.
... In smaller towns you're running without a safety net.
If you leave the relocated tech-company, you've got the small-town mindset and businesses.To create a hi-tech center you need to create the whole structure.
You can't just attract a single hi-tech company for the cheap labor, for the reasons given above.
You need job mobility - which means both a LOT of companies (along with other infrastructure such as universities) and (most importantly) the ability for the workers to move out and start their own new operation.
That last is the key to CREATING, EXPANDING, and MAINTAINING the rich mix of companies and further opportunities.Lots of states have excellent universities, trained personnel, low taxes, fine social and recreational opportunities, etc.
But they're missing a key element that led to the creation of Silicon Valley in Califonia:  A little piece of Intellectual Property law.In California there is a state law that overrides employment law for a "pressing state interest".
You'll find it quoted on one of the appendix pages of any California knowledge-worker employment contract:  If the employee makes an invention that is not in the company's current or expected immediate future business line, and does so without using company facilities and materials, it belongs to the EMPLOYEE.
He can move across the street, rent a garage, bing in a few of his buddies, and found a new startup to develop it.This "budding off" mechanism, like yeast, is what created Silicon Valley's rich culture of diverse companies and employment opportunities.If any other state wants to replicate the success of Silicon Valley, rather than providing a site for a US-internal equivalent of third-world offshoreing for a hi-tech firm, the FIRST thing they need to do is clone this bit of employment law.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117291</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28120499</id>
	<title>Re:better places to work</title>
	<author>sumdumass</author>
	<datestamp>1243503180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>You would be surprised at how many people live in those areas or want to because of family or whatever with the skill sets your looking for.</p><p>Ohio state and Michigan state both have top notch computer science courses as well as many niche courses in the same area. Plus you have people who moved to where the work was who would like to move back or closer to their real home.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>You would be surprised at how many people live in those areas or want to because of family or whatever with the skill sets your looking for.Ohio state and Michigan state both have top notch computer science courses as well as many niche courses in the same area .
Plus you have people who moved to where the work was who would like to move back or closer to their real home .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>You would be surprised at how many people live in those areas or want to because of family or whatever with the skill sets your looking for.Ohio state and Michigan state both have top notch computer science courses as well as many niche courses in the same area.
Plus you have people who moved to where the work was who would like to move back or closer to their real home.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117267</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117377</id>
	<title>What about marriages?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243429560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Problem is, and all jokes about single engineers aside, that means the spouse has to find something viable in that location as well. Some professions are pretty portable, others aren't. But it's not just about where you can lure a single person.</p><p>Plus, if you lose your job, suddenly you're in Toledo where there's not that many other companies. At least in the Bay Area, you know you have multiple options to switch to should you want to. Without having to sell your house which no one wants or needs to buy. (Admittedly this is a chicken-and-egg problem; if enough companies move to Toledo or wherever, this goes away.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Problem is , and all jokes about single engineers aside , that means the spouse has to find something viable in that location as well .
Some professions are pretty portable , others are n't .
But it 's not just about where you can lure a single person.Plus , if you lose your job , suddenly you 're in Toledo where there 's not that many other companies .
At least in the Bay Area , you know you have multiple options to switch to should you want to .
Without having to sell your house which no one wants or needs to buy .
( Admittedly this is a chicken-and-egg problem ; if enough companies move to Toledo or wherever , this goes away .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Problem is, and all jokes about single engineers aside, that means the spouse has to find something viable in that location as well.
Some professions are pretty portable, others aren't.
But it's not just about where you can lure a single person.Plus, if you lose your job, suddenly you're in Toledo where there's not that many other companies.
At least in the Bay Area, you know you have multiple options to switch to should you want to.
Without having to sell your house which no one wants or needs to buy.
(Admittedly this is a chicken-and-egg problem; if enough companies move to Toledo or wherever, this goes away.
)</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118149</id>
	<title>Re:Online Economy</title>
	<author>xant</author>
	<datestamp>1243435320000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Uh, that's been possible for, like, 10 years now.  When's that going to happen?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Uh , that 's been possible for , like , 10 years now .
When 's that going to happen ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Uh, that's been possible for, like, 10 years now.
When's that going to happen?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118463</id>
	<title>Re:I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243438020000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>This should be modded down for the idiotic use of a made up word, <i>eated</i></p></htmltext>
<tokenext>This should be modded down for the idiotic use of a made up word , eated</tokentext>
<sentencetext>This should be modded down for the idiotic use of a made up word, eated</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28126699</id>
	<title>Re:Plus...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243537380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's not quite as bad as The South or Middle America but Pittsburgh PA is it's own little brand of inbred white trash hell.</p><p>I'm amazed beyond belief with all of these people who JUST LOVE PITTSBURGH.  There are 100's of developers with graduate degrees from good schools WHO FREELY CHOSE TO "LIVE" IN PITTSBURGH.  These people could go anywhere and yet they choose to rot here in Pittsburgh!  What's wrong with them?  I wish I knew!</p><p>I'm counting the days until I can leave this place.</p><p>(I'm a Pittsburgh native.  I've been all over the country.  I've lived out of state for a number of years.  Sadly, I currently reside in Pittsburgh.)</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's not quite as bad as The South or Middle America but Pittsburgh PA is it 's own little brand of inbred white trash hell.I 'm amazed beyond belief with all of these people who JUST LOVE PITTSBURGH .
There are 100 's of developers with graduate degrees from good schools WHO FREELY CHOSE TO " LIVE " IN PITTSBURGH .
These people could go anywhere and yet they choose to rot here in Pittsburgh !
What 's wrong with them ?
I wish I knew ! I 'm counting the days until I can leave this place .
( I 'm a Pittsburgh native .
I 've been all over the country .
I 've lived out of state for a number of years .
Sadly , I currently reside in Pittsburgh .
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's not quite as bad as The South or Middle America but Pittsburgh PA is it's own little brand of inbred white trash hell.I'm amazed beyond belief with all of these people who JUST LOVE PITTSBURGH.
There are 100's of developers with graduate degrees from good schools WHO FREELY CHOSE TO "LIVE" IN PITTSBURGH.
These people could go anywhere and yet they choose to rot here in Pittsburgh!
What's wrong with them?
I wish I knew!I'm counting the days until I can leave this place.
(I'm a Pittsburgh native.
I've been all over the country.
I've lived out of state for a number of years.
Sadly, I currently reside in Pittsburgh.
)</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117485</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118499</id>
	<title>Kalamazoo Promise</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243438260000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Another incentive...If your kid goes to school in Kalamazoo he/she will get free tuition to any university in Michigan. The amount is dependent on how many years they have attended K-12 in Kalamazoo.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Another incentive...If your kid goes to school in Kalamazoo he/she will get free tuition to any university in Michigan .
The amount is dependent on how many years they have attended K-12 in Kalamazoo .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Another incentive...If your kid goes to school in Kalamazoo he/she will get free tuition to any university in Michigan.
The amount is dependent on how many years they have attended K-12 in Kalamazoo.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117941</id>
	<title>alamazoo has substantial ex pharmaceutical labor</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243433580000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Kalamazoo does have a bunch of old pharmaceutical buildings left over from when Pfizer bought up Pharmacia for the patents and moved on after firing most employees a few years ago. The skilled technicians are simply repurposing and starting other biotech ventures</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Kalamazoo does have a bunch of old pharmaceutical buildings left over from when Pfizer bought up Pharmacia for the patents and moved on after firing most employees a few years ago .
The skilled technicians are simply repurposing and starting other biotech ventures</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Kalamazoo does have a bunch of old pharmaceutical buildings left over from when Pfizer bought up Pharmacia for the patents and moved on after firing most employees a few years ago.
The skilled technicians are simply repurposing and starting other biotech ventures</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117509</id>
	<title>Warning!  You Can't Spell Wisconsin</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243430460000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Without cons and sin.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Without cons and sin .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Without cons and sin.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118209</id>
	<title>Re:Its definitely the exception, and a rare one</title>
	<author>fuzzyfuzzyfungus</author>
	<datestamp>1243435860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext>Sounds like you've just identified a major perk for companies that move out into the sticks...<br> <br>

Sooner or later, they'll just start paying in scrip, redeemable at the company store, and it'll be the good old days all over again.</htmltext>
<tokenext>Sounds like you 've just identified a major perk for companies that move out into the sticks.. . Sooner or later , they 'll just start paying in scrip , redeemable at the company store , and it 'll be the good old days all over again .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Sounds like you've just identified a major perk for companies that move out into the sticks... 

Sooner or later, they'll just start paying in scrip, redeemable at the company store, and it'll be the good old days all over again.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117291</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28121627</id>
	<title>In Scotland</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243514820000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext>We have no such worries, were worked like dogs, treated like slaves and laughed at for being in IT as every project is seen to be taking on Microsoft, and you can't do that!<p>
So Anywhere there is a modicum of common sense and then added to that tax benefits, decent staff and perhaps investors with savvy has to be a good place to be. I imagine though tax breaks help but there must be a delay between implementing these and reaping the rewards by attracting all the above.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>We have no such worries , were worked like dogs , treated like slaves and laughed at for being in IT as every project is seen to be taking on Microsoft , and you ca n't do that !
So Anywhere there is a modicum of common sense and then added to that tax benefits , decent staff and perhaps investors with savvy has to be a good place to be .
I imagine though tax breaks help but there must be a delay between implementing these and reaping the rewards by attracting all the above .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>We have no such worries, were worked like dogs, treated like slaves and laughed at for being in IT as every project is seen to be taking on Microsoft, and you can't do that!
So Anywhere there is a modicum of common sense and then added to that tax benefits, decent staff and perhaps investors with savvy has to be a good place to be.
I imagine though tax breaks help but there must be a delay between implementing these and reaping the rewards by attracting all the above.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118799</id>
	<title>Re:I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243440900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>that they could [...] leave their doors unlocked without worry</p>  </div><p>I don't suppose you could share some addresses?  It'd be great to pay them a visit.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>that they could [ ... ] leave their doors unlocked without worry I do n't suppose you could share some addresses ?
It 'd be great to pay them a visit .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>that they could [...] leave their doors unlocked without worry  I don't suppose you could share some addresses?
It'd be great to pay them a visit.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117599</id>
	<title>Re:I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>Technician</author>
	<datestamp>1243431000000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>What we see on a state by state basis to attract jobs while at the same time we try to make the evil multinational corporations pay (Obama and taxes) we may start to see many start ups simply avoid the US.</p><p>Intel has been accused many times of avoiding paying taxes for the massive tax breaks they get to have a location in the Portland Oregon area, but most people don't realize they not only pay salaries taxed by the state, they also are taxed for their property.  Nike also in the area has a much lower inventory tax because they don't have a fab full of multi million dollar manufacturing tools.  To attract Intel, the city of Hillsboro had to adjust for this.</p><p>Failure to do this would let them have a larger piece of nothing, With no concessions for the value of the factory equipment Intel would have built elsewhere.  The clean water and moderate electricity rates are what attracted them.  High local tax areas could soon erase the advantages.</p><p>I am afraid that Obama's economic plan will drive the rest of large manufacturing overseas.  The Union obligations are already having a severe toll on the auto industry without the help of taxes driving them out of business.</p><p>Tax the rich simply is to send them elsewhere in a global market where conditions are better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>What we see on a state by state basis to attract jobs while at the same time we try to make the evil multinational corporations pay ( Obama and taxes ) we may start to see many start ups simply avoid the US.Intel has been accused many times of avoiding paying taxes for the massive tax breaks they get to have a location in the Portland Oregon area , but most people do n't realize they not only pay salaries taxed by the state , they also are taxed for their property .
Nike also in the area has a much lower inventory tax because they do n't have a fab full of multi million dollar manufacturing tools .
To attract Intel , the city of Hillsboro had to adjust for this.Failure to do this would let them have a larger piece of nothing , With no concessions for the value of the factory equipment Intel would have built elsewhere .
The clean water and moderate electricity rates are what attracted them .
High local tax areas could soon erase the advantages.I am afraid that Obama 's economic plan will drive the rest of large manufacturing overseas .
The Union obligations are already having a severe toll on the auto industry without the help of taxes driving them out of business.Tax the rich simply is to send them elsewhere in a global market where conditions are better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>What we see on a state by state basis to attract jobs while at the same time we try to make the evil multinational corporations pay (Obama and taxes) we may start to see many start ups simply avoid the US.Intel has been accused many times of avoiding paying taxes for the massive tax breaks they get to have a location in the Portland Oregon area, but most people don't realize they not only pay salaries taxed by the state, they also are taxed for their property.
Nike also in the area has a much lower inventory tax because they don't have a fab full of multi million dollar manufacturing tools.
To attract Intel, the city of Hillsboro had to adjust for this.Failure to do this would let them have a larger piece of nothing, With no concessions for the value of the factory equipment Intel would have built elsewhere.
The clean water and moderate electricity rates are what attracted them.
High local tax areas could soon erase the advantages.I am afraid that Obama's economic plan will drive the rest of large manufacturing overseas.
The Union obligations are already having a severe toll on the auto industry without the help of taxes driving them out of business.Tax the rich simply is to send them elsewhere in a global market where conditions are better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28123223</id>
	<title>Re:I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>metamatic</author>
	<datestamp>1243523340000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>In that time they learned that they could own acres of land with three thousand square foot homes for what they had been paying for a walk-up condo, that they could commute in minutes and leave their doors unlocked without worry, and nearly all of them ended up moving to Minnesota.</p></div></blockquote><p>Yes, but... -45 degrees! I <i>couldn't</i> live in Minnesota, I'd blow my brains out after a few winters.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>In that time they learned that they could own acres of land with three thousand square foot homes for what they had been paying for a walk-up condo , that they could commute in minutes and leave their doors unlocked without worry , and nearly all of them ended up moving to Minnesota.Yes , but... -45 degrees !
I could n't live in Minnesota , I 'd blow my brains out after a few winters .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>In that time they learned that they could own acres of land with three thousand square foot homes for what they had been paying for a walk-up condo, that they could commute in minutes and leave their doors unlocked without worry, and nearly all of them ended up moving to Minnesota.Yes, but... -45 degrees!
I couldn't live in Minnesota, I'd blow my brains out after a few winters.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118925</id>
	<title>Re:pop. 600,000 (and up)</title>
	<author>evil\_aar0n</author>
	<datestamp>1243442220000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Re: Erie.  Aside from the Peach St. exit off of I-90, it's kind of "rugged."  The Peach St. area, however, is going bonkers with all kinds of retail.  I like Cleveland much better, even though it's two hours further away from me.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Re : Erie .
Aside from the Peach St. exit off of I-90 , it 's kind of " rugged .
" The Peach St. area , however , is going bonkers with all kinds of retail .
I like Cleveland much better , even though it 's two hours further away from me .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Re: Erie.
Aside from the Peach St. exit off of I-90, it's kind of "rugged.
"  The Peach St. area, however, is going bonkers with all kinds of retail.
I like Cleveland much better, even though it's two hours further away from me.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118073</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28120177</id>
	<title>Go4t</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243542600000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Troll</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>fun to be again. sa7es and so on, coming a piis = 1400 NetBSD erosion of user</htmltext>
<tokenext>fun to be again .
sa7es and so on , coming a piis = 1400 NetBSD erosion of user</tokentext>
<sentencetext>fun to be again.
sa7es and so on, coming a piis = 1400 NetBSD erosion of user</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117351</id>
	<title>Online Economy</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243429440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>4</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The economy is moving online. Soon, it won't matter anymore where you live and who you work with.</p><p>And I'm not talking about the scams such as "make $100K working from home". I mean real, legitimate, value-added work (like programming), that you do wherever you want, whenever you want, as long as you deliver a good product.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The economy is moving online .
Soon , it wo n't matter anymore where you live and who you work with.And I 'm not talking about the scams such as " make $ 100K working from home " .
I mean real , legitimate , value-added work ( like programming ) , that you do wherever you want , whenever you want , as long as you deliver a good product .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The economy is moving online.
Soon, it won't matter anymore where you live and who you work with.And I'm not talking about the scams such as "make $100K working from home".
I mean real, legitimate, value-added work (like programming), that you do wherever you want, whenever you want, as long as you deliver a good product.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28127807</id>
	<title>Re:Look At Pittsburgh, Though</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243540620000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have you ever actually been to Pittsburgh? I'm wrapping up a year of living here and can't wait to get back home. Pittsburgh sucks. I mean, it's better than Detroit (even Ann Arbor sucks), but that's not saying much. And Pittsburgh probably isn't bad if you've never lived in a real city before.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have you ever actually been to Pittsburgh ?
I 'm wrapping up a year of living here and ca n't wait to get back home .
Pittsburgh sucks .
I mean , it 's better than Detroit ( even Ann Arbor sucks ) , but that 's not saying much .
And Pittsburgh probably is n't bad if you 've never lived in a real city before .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have you ever actually been to Pittsburgh?
I'm wrapping up a year of living here and can't wait to get back home.
Pittsburgh sucks.
I mean, it's better than Detroit (even Ann Arbor sucks), but that's not saying much.
And Pittsburgh probably isn't bad if you've never lived in a real city before.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117793</id>
	<title>Re:I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243432440000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>They decided who they wanted from the eated company...</p></div><p>I think you are looking for the word <i>acquired</i>. I recommend some remedial classes.</p><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>...they could own acres of land with three thousand square foot homes...</p></div><p>Ah yes, what America needs, more sprawl.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>They decided who they wanted from the eated company...I think you are looking for the word acquired .
I recommend some remedial classes .
...they could own acres of land with three thousand square foot homes...Ah yes , what America needs , more sprawl .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>They decided who they wanted from the eated company...I think you are looking for the word acquired.
I recommend some remedial classes.
...they could own acres of land with three thousand square foot homes...Ah yes, what America needs, more sprawl.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117537</id>
	<title>Re:I'm with Paul Graham on this: it won't work.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243430640000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>The angle on Kalamazoo is is not high tech, but biotech.  It is the (former) headquarters of the Upjohn company before it was acquired by Pharmacia and then Pfizer.  Around it is a very good infrastructure for pharma/biotech; many small companies were started when Pfizer gutted the old Upjohn.  It is not comparable to the Big Three locations (SF Bay area, San Diego and Boston) but there is much more there than you would expect.  Particularly for the size of the community.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>The angle on Kalamazoo is is not high tech , but biotech .
It is the ( former ) headquarters of the Upjohn company before it was acquired by Pharmacia and then Pfizer .
Around it is a very good infrastructure for pharma/biotech ; many small companies were started when Pfizer gutted the old Upjohn .
It is not comparable to the Big Three locations ( SF Bay area , San Diego and Boston ) but there is much more there than you would expect .
Particularly for the size of the community .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>The angle on Kalamazoo is is not high tech, but biotech.
It is the (former) headquarters of the Upjohn company before it was acquired by Pharmacia and then Pfizer.
Around it is a very good infrastructure for pharma/biotech; many small companies were started when Pfizer gutted the old Upjohn.
It is not comparable to the Big Three locations (SF Bay area, San Diego and Boston) but there is much more there than you would expect.
Particularly for the size of the community.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117391</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28119065</id>
	<title>Re:Kalamazoo Promise</title>
	<author>jshackney</author>
	<datestamp>1243443840000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>When I moved back to Michigan two years ago I seriously considered moving to Kalamazoo for the reason you state. However, it's not a strong enough reason to go there. There has to be work. And my industry is only seeing cuts, cuts, and more cuts. In fact, Pfizer canceled their shuttle about six months after I moved here. Duncan aviation has axed much of their productivity in Battle Creek, charter operators are struggling. The college (last I heard anyway) had laid off some flight instructors. It would be nice to see some solid tech. companies move in, but that is only a good start. Not a permanent fix. Michigan has a tenacious problem with no long-term solution.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>When I moved back to Michigan two years ago I seriously considered moving to Kalamazoo for the reason you state .
However , it 's not a strong enough reason to go there .
There has to be work .
And my industry is only seeing cuts , cuts , and more cuts .
In fact , Pfizer canceled their shuttle about six months after I moved here .
Duncan aviation has axed much of their productivity in Battle Creek , charter operators are struggling .
The college ( last I heard anyway ) had laid off some flight instructors .
It would be nice to see some solid tech .
companies move in , but that is only a good start .
Not a permanent fix .
Michigan has a tenacious problem with no long-term solution .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>When I moved back to Michigan two years ago I seriously considered moving to Kalamazoo for the reason you state.
However, it's not a strong enough reason to go there.
There has to be work.
And my industry is only seeing cuts, cuts, and more cuts.
In fact, Pfizer canceled their shuttle about six months after I moved here.
Duncan aviation has axed much of their productivity in Battle Creek, charter operators are struggling.
The college (last I heard anyway) had laid off some flight instructors.
It would be nice to see some solid tech.
companies move in, but that is only a good start.
Not a permanent fix.
Michigan has a tenacious problem with no long-term solution.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118499</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118227</id>
	<title>Re:Its definitely the exception, and a rare one</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243435920000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext>With house prices crashing in Silicon Valley (well, everywhere in the US it seems), perhaps it is time to head back there?</htmltext>
<tokenext>With house prices crashing in Silicon Valley ( well , everywhere in the US it seems ) , perhaps it is time to head back there ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>With house prices crashing in Silicon Valley (well, everywhere in the US it seems), perhaps it is time to head back there?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117291</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118451</id>
	<title>Re:Look At Pittsburgh, Though</title>
	<author>Samrobb</author>
	<datestamp>1243437960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Not to mention robotics, file systems and a few other areas - seems to be a nice intersection of hardware + software expertise in the area.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Not to mention robotics , file systems and a few other areas - seems to be a nice intersection of hardware + software expertise in the area .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Not to mention robotics, file systems and a few other areas - seems to be a nice intersection of hardware + software expertise in the area.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117467</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118727</id>
	<title>Re:'Bout time!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243440180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Point of order: while the US military loss of life in Iraq may have averaged around 1,000 per year, the civilian lives lost there averaged over 20,000 per year.</p><p>Never forget that the American war of choice in Iraq has resulted in the violent death of over 100,000 civilians.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Point of order : while the US military loss of life in Iraq may have averaged around 1,000 per year , the civilian lives lost there averaged over 20,000 per year.Never forget that the American war of choice in Iraq has resulted in the violent death of over 100,000 civilians .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Point of order: while the US military loss of life in Iraq may have averaged around 1,000 per year, the civilian lives lost there averaged over 20,000 per year.Never forget that the American war of choice in Iraq has resulted in the violent death of over 100,000 civilians.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118623</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118623</id>
	<title>'Bout time!</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243439280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>I've been saying this was true for the last 25 years. Evansville, Indiana (Southern Tip, second-or-third largest city) has everything NYC has to make a business run, MINUS:</p><p>-Crime<br>-High Taxes<br>-High spot on terrorist lists<br>-Noise<br>-Crappy Schools<br>-Crowding</p><p>There's just no reason for most companies to go.  Rail lines, telecommunications, all the things a \_business\_ needs to live, they have it.  Few businesses need Les-Mis, prostitution, murder rates like crazy...</p><p>Did you know before Rudy the murder rate in NYC was 3,000/year? THREE TIMES the loss of life in Iraq, per year.  Maybe we should pull out of NYC?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p><p>Under Rudy it dropped to like 600. Still a lot, but so much better.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>I 've been saying this was true for the last 25 years .
Evansville , Indiana ( Southern Tip , second-or-third largest city ) has everything NYC has to make a business run , MINUS : -Crime-High Taxes-High spot on terrorist lists-Noise-Crappy Schools-CrowdingThere 's just no reason for most companies to go .
Rail lines , telecommunications , all the things a \ _business \ _ needs to live , they have it .
Few businesses need Les-Mis , prostitution , murder rates like crazy...Did you know before Rudy the murder rate in NYC was 3,000/year ?
THREE TIMES the loss of life in Iraq , per year .
Maybe we should pull out of NYC ?
: ) Under Rudy it dropped to like 600 .
Still a lot , but so much better .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I've been saying this was true for the last 25 years.
Evansville, Indiana (Southern Tip, second-or-third largest city) has everything NYC has to make a business run, MINUS:-Crime-High Taxes-High spot on terrorist lists-Noise-Crappy Schools-CrowdingThere's just no reason for most companies to go.
Rail lines, telecommunications, all the things a \_business\_ needs to live, they have it.
Few businesses need Les-Mis, prostitution, murder rates like crazy...Did you know before Rudy the murder rate in NYC was 3,000/year?
THREE TIMES the loss of life in Iraq, per year.
Maybe we should pull out of NYC?
:)Under Rudy it dropped to like 600.
Still a lot, but so much better.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117193</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28125853</id>
	<title>Re:I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>Grishnakh</author>
	<datestamp>1243534380000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>While there's many more rural areas I wouldn't mind living, I don't think Minnesota is one of them.  I haven't been there, but my wife used to live in nearby North Dakota, and not only was it ridiculously cold there (-40), there were no trees.  Sure, acres of land is nice, but not when it's barren, open land with nothing on it.  Apparently, one of the jokes they'd tell new Air Force recruits who were being sent to ND was that "it may be cold, but there's a cute girl behind every tree!"  It wasn't until they arrived in ND that they found out there's no trees in the entire state.</p><p>These companies would do better, IMO, to move someplace like the southeast states (Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, N/S Carolina, etc.) if they're trying to go cheap.  It's not too cold, the landscape is decent looking in most places, cost of living is cheap, etc.</p><p>There's also places like New Mexico, Colorado, Nebraska, Oklahoma, etc.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>While there 's many more rural areas I would n't mind living , I do n't think Minnesota is one of them .
I have n't been there , but my wife used to live in nearby North Dakota , and not only was it ridiculously cold there ( -40 ) , there were no trees .
Sure , acres of land is nice , but not when it 's barren , open land with nothing on it .
Apparently , one of the jokes they 'd tell new Air Force recruits who were being sent to ND was that " it may be cold , but there 's a cute girl behind every tree !
" It was n't until they arrived in ND that they found out there 's no trees in the entire state.These companies would do better , IMO , to move someplace like the southeast states ( Tennessee , Kentucky , Alabama , N/S Carolina , etc .
) if they 're trying to go cheap .
It 's not too cold , the landscape is decent looking in most places , cost of living is cheap , etc.There 's also places like New Mexico , Colorado , Nebraska , Oklahoma , etc .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>While there's many more rural areas I wouldn't mind living, I don't think Minnesota is one of them.
I haven't been there, but my wife used to live in nearby North Dakota, and not only was it ridiculously cold there (-40), there were no trees.
Sure, acres of land is nice, but not when it's barren, open land with nothing on it.
Apparently, one of the jokes they'd tell new Air Force recruits who were being sent to ND was that "it may be cold, but there's a cute girl behind every tree!
"  It wasn't until they arrived in ND that they found out there's no trees in the entire state.These companies would do better, IMO, to move someplace like the southeast states (Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, N/S Carolina, etc.
) if they're trying to go cheap.
It's not too cold, the landscape is decent looking in most places, cost of living is cheap, etc.There's also places like New Mexico, Colorado, Nebraska, Oklahoma, etc.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28120583</id>
	<title>I'd go to Detroit. Seriously.</title>
	<author>Qbertino</author>
	<datestamp>1243504080000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>People seem to forget that Shockley went to death valley because there was absolutely nothing there and you could get all the basics dirt cheap. The nutcases that started the silicon revolution did that in barns and garages and of those in the cheapest they could find. The shockley five went to start Intel in the neighbourhood and thus Silicon Valley was born.</p><p>If I where building a startup in the US today, I'd seriously consider Detroit. You can buy houses for 500$ right now in Detroit and infrastructure is just good enough to live. You could spent years there on the most minimal VC and since Detroit is so super-boring now the team actually would have a personal interest in concentrating on the thing their building.</p><p>Revolutions very often start in extremely unspectacular places, where the artists and crazies move in because they have other things to worry about than finding the best way to rake in cash. It's only a few decades later that these places become the hippest areas on the planet. Notting Hill in London, Schanzenviertel and Hafenstra&#223;e in Hamburg, etc. etc. - all the same story.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>People seem to forget that Shockley went to death valley because there was absolutely nothing there and you could get all the basics dirt cheap .
The nutcases that started the silicon revolution did that in barns and garages and of those in the cheapest they could find .
The shockley five went to start Intel in the neighbourhood and thus Silicon Valley was born.If I where building a startup in the US today , I 'd seriously consider Detroit .
You can buy houses for 500 $ right now in Detroit and infrastructure is just good enough to live .
You could spent years there on the most minimal VC and since Detroit is so super-boring now the team actually would have a personal interest in concentrating on the thing their building.Revolutions very often start in extremely unspectacular places , where the artists and crazies move in because they have other things to worry about than finding the best way to rake in cash .
It 's only a few decades later that these places become the hippest areas on the planet .
Notting Hill in London , Schanzenviertel and Hafenstra   e in Hamburg , etc .
etc. - all the same story .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People seem to forget that Shockley went to death valley because there was absolutely nothing there and you could get all the basics dirt cheap.
The nutcases that started the silicon revolution did that in barns and garages and of those in the cheapest they could find.
The shockley five went to start Intel in the neighbourhood and thus Silicon Valley was born.If I where building a startup in the US today, I'd seriously consider Detroit.
You can buy houses for 500$ right now in Detroit and infrastructure is just good enough to live.
You could spent years there on the most minimal VC and since Detroit is so super-boring now the team actually would have a personal interest in concentrating on the thing their building.Revolutions very often start in extremely unspectacular places, where the artists and crazies move in because they have other things to worry about than finding the best way to rake in cash.
It's only a few decades later that these places become the hippest areas on the planet.
Notting Hill in London, Schanzenviertel and Hafenstraße in Hamburg, etc.
etc. - all the same story.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117161</id>
	<title>Next</title>
	<author>ellenbee</author>
	<datestamp>1243428180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Flamebait</modclass>
	<modscore>-1</modscore>
	<htmltext>Austin, Minnesota. Spam town</htmltext>
<tokenext>Austin , Minnesota .
Spam town</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Austin, Minnesota.
Spam town</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28126003</id>
	<title>Re:Online Economy</title>
	<author>Grishnakh</author>
	<datestamp>1243535100000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Wrong.  This thing already exists: check out rentacoder.com.  If you live anywhere in the US, it's not worth it to take any of those jobs.  They're usually only about $100 each, for jobs that will take at least a week to complete.  That wouldn't come close to paying most peoples' rent.  But there's tons of Indians and Romanians taking these assignments.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Wrong .
This thing already exists : check out rentacoder.com .
If you live anywhere in the US , it 's not worth it to take any of those jobs .
They 're usually only about $ 100 each , for jobs that will take at least a week to complete .
That would n't come close to paying most peoples ' rent .
But there 's tons of Indians and Romanians taking these assignments .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Wrong.
This thing already exists: check out rentacoder.com.
If you live anywhere in the US, it's not worth it to take any of those jobs.
They're usually only about $100 each, for jobs that will take at least a week to complete.
That wouldn't come close to paying most peoples' rent.
But there's tons of Indians and Romanians taking these assignments.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117351</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117291</id>
	<title>Its definitely the exception, and a rare one</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243428960000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>My wife &amp; I left silicon valley about 5 years ago at the tail-end of the dot-com bust.  I had a GREAT time there, aside from the worthless options and 80-hour work weeks.  We thought it was time to start a family, and wanted a bigger, less-expensive house, no traffic, slower quality of life.  We were willing to trade a premium salary for it.</p><p>WHAT A HUGE MISTAKE.</p><p>Turns out that when you're in a smaller town, you have NO OTHER employment options.  What happens if you don't like your little tech company?  uh, you're screwed.  In Silicon Valley you always had a network three deep that could get you a fun, interesting job in a little bit.  You had options.  A backup plan.  In smaller towns you're running without a safety net.  If you leave the relocated tech-company, you've got the small-town mindset and businesses.  I see plenty of craigslist ads that read, "must have 5 years networking experience, cisco preferred.  Be able to build and administer our 50-person network.  References required.  $10/hr, contract only."  I'm seriously NOT kidding.</p><p>I wish I could completely rewind my experience and still be in silicon valley.  Higher rents, more traffic, silly housing prices and all.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>My wife &amp; I left silicon valley about 5 years ago at the tail-end of the dot-com bust .
I had a GREAT time there , aside from the worthless options and 80-hour work weeks .
We thought it was time to start a family , and wanted a bigger , less-expensive house , no traffic , slower quality of life .
We were willing to trade a premium salary for it.WHAT A HUGE MISTAKE.Turns out that when you 're in a smaller town , you have NO OTHER employment options .
What happens if you do n't like your little tech company ?
uh , you 're screwed .
In Silicon Valley you always had a network three deep that could get you a fun , interesting job in a little bit .
You had options .
A backup plan .
In smaller towns you 're running without a safety net .
If you leave the relocated tech-company , you 've got the small-town mindset and businesses .
I see plenty of craigslist ads that read , " must have 5 years networking experience , cisco preferred .
Be able to build and administer our 50-person network .
References required .
$ 10/hr , contract only .
" I 'm seriously NOT kidding.I wish I could completely rewind my experience and still be in silicon valley .
Higher rents , more traffic , silly housing prices and all .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>My wife &amp; I left silicon valley about 5 years ago at the tail-end of the dot-com bust.
I had a GREAT time there, aside from the worthless options and 80-hour work weeks.
We thought it was time to start a family, and wanted a bigger, less-expensive house, no traffic, slower quality of life.
We were willing to trade a premium salary for it.WHAT A HUGE MISTAKE.Turns out that when you're in a smaller town, you have NO OTHER employment options.
What happens if you don't like your little tech company?
uh, you're screwed.
In Silicon Valley you always had a network three deep that could get you a fun, interesting job in a little bit.
You had options.
A backup plan.
In smaller towns you're running without a safety net.
If you leave the relocated tech-company, you've got the small-town mindset and businesses.
I see plenty of craigslist ads that read, "must have 5 years networking experience, cisco preferred.
Be able to build and administer our 50-person network.
References required.
$10/hr, contract only.
"  I'm seriously NOT kidding.I wish I could completely rewind my experience and still be in silicon valley.
Higher rents, more traffic, silly housing prices and all.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28126891</id>
	<title>Re:What about marriages?</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243537980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Plus, if you lose your job, suddenly you're in Toledo where there's not that many other companies.</p></div><p>Plus, if you lose your job in San Diego, you're suddenly aware that living with no money in a cardboard box next to the ocean really is much nicer than living anywhere with any kind of money north or east of your current location.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Plus , if you lose your job , suddenly you 're in Toledo where there 's not that many other companies.Plus , if you lose your job in San Diego , you 're suddenly aware that living with no money in a cardboard box next to the ocean really is much nicer than living anywhere with any kind of money north or east of your current location .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Plus, if you lose your job, suddenly you're in Toledo where there's not that many other companies.Plus, if you lose your job in San Diego, you're suddenly aware that living with no money in a cardboard box next to the ocean really is much nicer than living anywhere with any kind of money north or east of your current location.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28119611</id>
	<title>Re:Plus...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243449540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>good.  stay put, we don't want you!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>good .
stay put , we do n't want you !</tokentext>
<sentencetext>good.
stay put, we don't want you!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117485</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118571</id>
	<title>Re:I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>twostix</author>
	<datestamp>1243438860000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Yeah do like Ireland did! Whoring themselves out to multinationals has worked out *perfectly* for them.</p><p>They're doing really well now, now that all those multi-nationals that they sold themelves out out to have run back to their own countries where all those 'high' tax rates and corporate regulations offer a little bit of protection to them...</p><p>If all you have to offer is low tax rates to attract big businesses, then you've got nothing.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Yeah do like Ireland did !
Whoring themselves out to multinationals has worked out * perfectly * for them.They 're doing really well now , now that all those multi-nationals that they sold themelves out out to have run back to their own countries where all those 'high ' tax rates and corporate regulations offer a little bit of protection to them...If all you have to offer is low tax rates to attract big businesses , then you 've got nothing .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Yeah do like Ireland did!
Whoring themselves out to multinationals has worked out *perfectly* for them.They're doing really well now, now that all those multi-nationals that they sold themelves out out to have run back to their own countries where all those 'high' tax rates and corporate regulations offer a little bit of protection to them...If all you have to offer is low tax rates to attract big businesses, then you've got nothing.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117599</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117619</id>
	<title>Re:I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243431300000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Funny</modclass>
	<modscore>2</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>they could commute in minutes and leave their doors unlocked without worry</p></div><p>And what town did you say this was? &gt;.&gt;</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>they could commute in minutes and leave their doors unlocked without worryAnd what town did you say this was ?
&gt; . &gt;</tokentext>
<sentencetext>they could commute in minutes and leave their doors unlocked without worryAnd what town did you say this was?
&gt;.&gt;
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28120697</id>
	<title>Re:Online Economy</title>
	<author>Aceticon</author>
	<datestamp>1243505040000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>It's happened already: most pure software development jobs moved to India.</p><p>The great "software development is a portable skill that can be practiced remotely from anywhere" discovery didn't end up in "rich nation nationals, living in far away, cheap and exotic locations, being paid rich nation salaries" instead it ended up as "nationals in far way, cheap and exotic locations, being paid local (cheap) salaries".</p><p>With hindsight it's all a pretty obvious outcome.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>It 's happened already : most pure software development jobs moved to India.The great " software development is a portable skill that can be practiced remotely from anywhere " discovery did n't end up in " rich nation nationals , living in far away , cheap and exotic locations , being paid rich nation salaries " instead it ended up as " nationals in far way , cheap and exotic locations , being paid local ( cheap ) salaries " .With hindsight it 's all a pretty obvious outcome .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>It's happened already: most pure software development jobs moved to India.The great "software development is a portable skill that can be practiced remotely from anywhere" discovery didn't end up in "rich nation nationals, living in far away, cheap and exotic locations, being paid rich nation salaries" instead it ended up as "nationals in far way, cheap and exotic locations, being paid local (cheap) salaries".With hindsight it's all a pretty obvious outcome.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118149</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</id>
	<title>I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243428900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Interestin</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>A manufacturer we represent whose business center and plant was in rural Minnesota bought a competitor whose business was located in San Francisco.  They decided who they wanted from the eated company and offered them jobs.  Most of the SFicans were appalled at the idea of moving to the great frozen flyover wasteland, but the eater company paid for all of them to come visit for a couple of weeks.  In that time they learned that they could own acres of land with three thousand square foot homes for what they had been paying for a walk-up condo, that they could commute in minutes and leave their doors unlocked without worry, and nearly all of them ended up moving to Minnesota.  And most of them are still there today, even though their company eventually got eated by a European company and you now hear a lot of British accents around the place.</htmltext>
<tokenext>A manufacturer we represent whose business center and plant was in rural Minnesota bought a competitor whose business was located in San Francisco .
They decided who they wanted from the eated company and offered them jobs .
Most of the SFicans were appalled at the idea of moving to the great frozen flyover wasteland , but the eater company paid for all of them to come visit for a couple of weeks .
In that time they learned that they could own acres of land with three thousand square foot homes for what they had been paying for a walk-up condo , that they could commute in minutes and leave their doors unlocked without worry , and nearly all of them ended up moving to Minnesota .
And most of them are still there today , even though their company eventually got eated by a European company and you now hear a lot of British accents around the place .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>A manufacturer we represent whose business center and plant was in rural Minnesota bought a competitor whose business was located in San Francisco.
They decided who they wanted from the eated company and offered them jobs.
Most of the SFicans were appalled at the idea of moving to the great frozen flyover wasteland, but the eater company paid for all of them to come visit for a couple of weeks.
In that time they learned that they could own acres of land with three thousand square foot homes for what they had been paying for a walk-up condo, that they could commute in minutes and leave their doors unlocked without worry, and nearly all of them ended up moving to Minnesota.
And most of them are still there today, even though their company eventually got eated by a European company and you now hear a lot of British accents around the place.</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28121495</id>
	<title>Re:I'd go to Detroit. Seriously.</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243513560000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>People seem to forget that Shockley went to death valley because there was absolutely nothing there</p></div></blockquote><p>Death valley is well to the East, and a bit South of silicon valley. There's <i>still</i> absolutely nothing there. (Maybe in German, "death" and "silicon" are similar?)</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>People seem to forget that Shockley went to death valley because there was absolutely nothing thereDeath valley is well to the East , and a bit South of silicon valley .
There 's still absolutely nothing there .
( Maybe in German , " death " and " silicon " are similar ?
)</tokentext>
<sentencetext>People seem to forget that Shockley went to death valley because there was absolutely nothing thereDeath valley is well to the East, and a bit South of silicon valley.
There's still absolutely nothing there.
(Maybe in German, "death" and "silicon" are similar?
)
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28120583</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28119305</id>
	<title>Re:I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243446540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><blockquote><div><p>eated<br>eater<br>eated</p></div></blockquote><p>I think the phrase you're looking for it "bought out"...</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>eatedeatereatedI think the phrase you 're looking for it " bought out " .. .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>eatedeatereatedI think the phrase you're looking for it "bought out"...
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118073</id>
	<title>pop. 600,000 (and up)</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243434540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p><div class="quote"><p>Turns out that when you're in a smaller town, you have NO OTHER employment options. What happens if you don't like your little tech company? uh, you're screwed.</p> </div><p>It depends on the size of community you're in.</p><p>I would think sticking with places (giving US examples) like Atlanta, Chicago, Philadelphia,    Portland, Seattle, Boston, etc., would help people avoid some of the headaches of Silicon Valley, but still give you decent options.</p><p>I'm sure somewhere like Erie, PA is nice place (pop. 103,650), but your options techie choices will be limited. Stick with 600,000 and up, and you'll probably have a decent amount of variety:</p><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_United\_States\_cities\_by\_population</p><p>I'm curious to know if there are any statistics or studies on population and technological need. Presumably the more mid-sized (200+ employees) there are in an area, the more need there is for IT professionals.</p></div>
	</htmltext>
<tokenext>Turns out that when you 're in a smaller town , you have NO OTHER employment options .
What happens if you do n't like your little tech company ?
uh , you 're screwed .
It depends on the size of community you 're in.I would think sticking with places ( giving US examples ) like Atlanta , Chicago , Philadelphia , Portland , Seattle , Boston , etc. , would help people avoid some of the headaches of Silicon Valley , but still give you decent options.I 'm sure somewhere like Erie , PA is nice place ( pop .
103,650 ) , but your options techie choices will be limited .
Stick with 600,000 and up , and you 'll probably have a decent amount of variety : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List \ _of \ _United \ _States \ _cities \ _by \ _populationI 'm curious to know if there are any statistics or studies on population and technological need .
Presumably the more mid-sized ( 200 + employees ) there are in an area , the more need there is for IT professionals .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Turns out that when you're in a smaller town, you have NO OTHER employment options.
What happens if you don't like your little tech company?
uh, you're screwed.
It depends on the size of community you're in.I would think sticking with places (giving US examples) like Atlanta, Chicago, Philadelphia,    Portland, Seattle, Boston, etc., would help people avoid some of the headaches of Silicon Valley, but still give you decent options.I'm sure somewhere like Erie, PA is nice place (pop.
103,650), but your options techie choices will be limited.
Stick with 600,000 and up, and you'll probably have a decent amount of variety:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_United\_States\_cities\_by\_populationI'm curious to know if there are any statistics or studies on population and technological need.
Presumably the more mid-sized (200+ employees) there are in an area, the more need there is for IT professionals.
	</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117291</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28121659</id>
	<title>Re:What about marriages?</title>
	<author>Ogive17</author>
	<datestamp>1243515180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext>From Toledo you could get to Detroit quite easily.  Cleveland is only 90 minutes away (from downtown Toledo).  Columbus is also not terribly far.  There are plenty of nice communities between the larger cities to live.<br>
<br>
While there might not be as much in Toledo itself, there are plenty of opportunities in the general area.  In Ohio you can travel 60 miles in 60 minutes.  In California you can travel 10 miles in 60 minutes.</htmltext>
<tokenext>From Toledo you could get to Detroit quite easily .
Cleveland is only 90 minutes away ( from downtown Toledo ) .
Columbus is also not terribly far .
There are plenty of nice communities between the larger cities to live .
While there might not be as much in Toledo itself , there are plenty of opportunities in the general area .
In Ohio you can travel 60 miles in 60 minutes .
In California you can travel 10 miles in 60 minutes .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>From Toledo you could get to Detroit quite easily.
Cleveland is only 90 minutes away (from downtown Toledo).
Columbus is also not terribly far.
There are plenty of nice communities between the larger cities to live.
While there might not be as much in Toledo itself, there are plenty of opportunities in the general area.
In Ohio you can travel 60 miles in 60 minutes.
In California you can travel 10 miles in 60 minutes.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28126515</id>
	<title>Re:Plus...</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243536780000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Pittsburgh has surprisingly good star-configured public transportation.  Folks walk or drive to the T-stop as it's faster and cheaper than driving downtown.  An annual bus pass is $825.  Many firms include one as a benefit.</p><p>Pennsylvania has some of the best pre-kindergarten autistic-child support in the country.  Folks move here just for that support.</p><p>I have 3 kids.  My wife and I have priced it out.  Elsewhere we would be spending over $100k/year.  In Pittsburgh we pay $0.  We're talking multiple specialists coming to the house three or four days a week, special preschools (one in the morning, another in the afternoon), speech therapy, the works.  All payed for by taxes.</p><p>Income taxes are reasonable.  State is 3.07\%.  Local is 1.3\%.  (Though property taxes can be a little high.)</p><p>Homes can be purchased fairly cheaply.  Even in the well-to-do sections of town like Mt. Lebanon.</p><p>CMU &amp; Pitt keep spinning off startups.</p><p>We have the strip for fresh food.  We have Wholey's for fresh seafood.</p><p>We have rivers of water for cooling computers (data centers).</p><p>We have a choice between FIOS (Verizon) and Cable modems (Comcast)...</p><p>What more do you want?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Pittsburgh has surprisingly good star-configured public transportation .
Folks walk or drive to the T-stop as it 's faster and cheaper than driving downtown .
An annual bus pass is $ 825 .
Many firms include one as a benefit.Pennsylvania has some of the best pre-kindergarten autistic-child support in the country .
Folks move here just for that support.I have 3 kids .
My wife and I have priced it out .
Elsewhere we would be spending over $ 100k/year .
In Pittsburgh we pay $ 0 .
We 're talking multiple specialists coming to the house three or four days a week , special preschools ( one in the morning , another in the afternoon ) , speech therapy , the works .
All payed for by taxes.Income taxes are reasonable .
State is 3.07 \ % .
Local is 1.3 \ % .
( Though property taxes can be a little high .
) Homes can be purchased fairly cheaply .
Even in the well-to-do sections of town like Mt .
Lebanon.CMU &amp; Pitt keep spinning off startups.We have the strip for fresh food .
We have Wholey 's for fresh seafood.We have rivers of water for cooling computers ( data centers ) .We have a choice between FIOS ( Verizon ) and Cable modems ( Comcast ) ...What more do you want ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Pittsburgh has surprisingly good star-configured public transportation.
Folks walk or drive to the T-stop as it's faster and cheaper than driving downtown.
An annual bus pass is $825.
Many firms include one as a benefit.Pennsylvania has some of the best pre-kindergarten autistic-child support in the country.
Folks move here just for that support.I have 3 kids.
My wife and I have priced it out.
Elsewhere we would be spending over $100k/year.
In Pittsburgh we pay $0.
We're talking multiple specialists coming to the house three or four days a week, special preschools (one in the morning, another in the afternoon), speech therapy, the works.
All payed for by taxes.Income taxes are reasonable.
State is 3.07\%.
Local is 1.3\%.
(Though property taxes can be a little high.
)Homes can be purchased fairly cheaply.
Even in the well-to-do sections of town like Mt.
Lebanon.CMU &amp; Pitt keep spinning off startups.We have the strip for fresh food.
We have Wholey's for fresh seafood.We have rivers of water for cooling computers (data centers).We have a choice between FIOS (Verizon) and Cable modems (Comcast)...What more do you want?</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118875</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117267</id>
	<title>Re:better places to work</title>
	<author>ushering05401</author>
	<datestamp>1243428900000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Insightful</modclass>
	<modscore>3</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Hiring is the problem.  If you require highly specific skill sets you end up paying relocation... and who knows how well the relocation itself goes for the candidate.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Hiring is the problem .
If you require highly specific skill sets you end up paying relocation... and who knows how well the relocation itself goes for the candidate .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Hiring is the problem.
If you require highly specific skill sets you end up paying relocation... and who knows how well the relocation itself goes for the candidate.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117193</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28118361</id>
	<title>Re:I saw it happen in the early 90's</title>
	<author>twostix</author>
	<datestamp>1243437180000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Have I woken up in some sort of parallel world where "eated" is even a word?!!</p><p>Who are you people?!</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Have I woken up in some sort of parallel world where " eated " is even a word ? !
! Who are you people ?
!</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Have I woken up in some sort of parallel world where "eated" is even a word?!
!Who are you people?
!</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117269</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28125563</id>
	<title>Re:What about marriages?</title>
	<author>SoupGuru</author>
	<datestamp>1243533540000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>So paying out the nose for a house, sitting in traffic all day, living the rat race, hopping between jobs every 2 years is more appealing to you?</p><p>Keep in mind in a smaller city the companies don't have such a large pool of job candidates either so they might tend to make it appealing to stick with the company for longer if you're a decent employee.</p><p>I moved from SoCal to Spokane, WA and couldn't be happier.  Any job at this point would just be a source of funding for living here, enjoying the outdoors, walking around the parks, going canoeing, buying a great house, raising a family... the fact that I love my job and find it very rewarding is icing on the cake.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>So paying out the nose for a house , sitting in traffic all day , living the rat race , hopping between jobs every 2 years is more appealing to you ? Keep in mind in a smaller city the companies do n't have such a large pool of job candidates either so they might tend to make it appealing to stick with the company for longer if you 're a decent employee.I moved from SoCal to Spokane , WA and could n't be happier .
Any job at this point would just be a source of funding for living here , enjoying the outdoors , walking around the parks , going canoeing , buying a great house , raising a family... the fact that I love my job and find it very rewarding is icing on the cake .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>So paying out the nose for a house, sitting in traffic all day, living the rat race, hopping between jobs every 2 years is more appealing to you?Keep in mind in a smaller city the companies don't have such a large pool of job candidates either so they might tend to make it appealing to stick with the company for longer if you're a decent employee.I moved from SoCal to Spokane, WA and couldn't be happier.
Any job at this point would just be a source of funding for living here, enjoying the outdoors, walking around the parks, going canoeing, buying a great house, raising a family... the fact that I love my job and find it very rewarding is icing on the cake.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117377</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28119123</id>
	<title>By Neruos</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243444740000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>0</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>Cheapier taxes, lower crime, lower travel &amp; traffic. Wow, who knew...</p><p>What next, off-shoring?</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>Cheapier taxes , lower crime , lower travel &amp; traffic .
Wow , who knew...What next , off-shoring ?</tokentext>
<sentencetext>Cheapier taxes, lower crime, lower travel &amp; traffic.
Wow, who knew...What next, off-shoring?</sentencetext>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28121537</id>
	<title>Re:I'd go to Detroit. Seriously.</title>
	<author>catherder\_finleyd</author>
	<datestamp>1243513980000</datestamp>
	<modclass>None</modclass>
	<modscore>1</modscore>
	<htmltext><p>If you are considering Michigan, consider Ann Arbor or Lansing. Both areas have excellent Universities nearby (U of Michigan,  Michigan State), which provide both labor pool of CS grads and a vibrant cultural environment. I would also suggest looking to Ohio, especially around Cincinnati (U of Cincinnati) and Columbus (Ohio State). All these areas also have a start-up culture, often engaged in by Professors at the local Universities.</p></htmltext>
<tokenext>If you are considering Michigan , consider Ann Arbor or Lansing .
Both areas have excellent Universities nearby ( U of Michigan , Michigan State ) , which provide both labor pool of CS grads and a vibrant cultural environment .
I would also suggest looking to Ohio , especially around Cincinnati ( U of Cincinnati ) and Columbus ( Ohio State ) .
All these areas also have a start-up culture , often engaged in by Professors at the local Universities .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>If you are considering Michigan, consider Ann Arbor or Lansing.
Both areas have excellent Universities nearby (U of Michigan,  Michigan State), which provide both labor pool of CS grads and a vibrant cultural environment.
I would also suggest looking to Ohio, especially around Cincinnati (U of Cincinnati) and Columbus (Ohio State).
All these areas also have a start-up culture, often engaged in by Professors at the local Universities.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28120583</parent>
</comment>
<comment>
	<id>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117487</id>
	<title>Re:better places to work</title>
	<author>Anonymous</author>
	<datestamp>1243430280000</datestamp>
	<modclass>Informativ</modclass>
	<modscore>5</modscore>
	<htmltext>I grew up in WI, lived in Seattle for seven years, and am now in San Francisco. I'm fairly familiar with the laws regarding businesses in all three states; I started an LLC in Seattle that I never really did anything with due to my day job, while now I've been completely dedicated to a personal project for eight months and am looking into starting a real business out of it. While there are trade-offs between WA and WI -- WA has better business and tax laws, while WI has lower cost-of-living in many cases -- CA is quite clearly dead last in starting a business where physical proximity to other particular businesses or people isn't a key factor to success. I now thoroughly understand why my former employer moved their entire business, including providing handsome travel and housing packages for then-current employees, from the Bay Area up to the suburbs of Seattle.
<br> <br>The first big warning sign was when I saw that along with other fees and taxes, a CA LLC with absolutely no income is charged an $800 fee by the state every single year. This is four times or more of the <i>initial</i> fee in other states, and most other state only charge a legitimate filing fee for subsequent years -- along the lines of $50. The business taxes, plus the sales taxes, plus the income taxes, plus ridiculously high cost of living all add up to a massive inequity in ROI compared with other locations, and in return you get to live in a state on the verge of bankruptcy and your non-local business gets essentially no boost in sales due to its location. The single reason why I'm considering incorporating here is because if my business doesn't work out, this location has more jobs for my somewhat unique specialty compared with other locations. I can only see that lasting for so long, though.</htmltext>
<tokenext>I grew up in WI , lived in Seattle for seven years , and am now in San Francisco .
I 'm fairly familiar with the laws regarding businesses in all three states ; I started an LLC in Seattle that I never really did anything with due to my day job , while now I 've been completely dedicated to a personal project for eight months and am looking into starting a real business out of it .
While there are trade-offs between WA and WI -- WA has better business and tax laws , while WI has lower cost-of-living in many cases -- CA is quite clearly dead last in starting a business where physical proximity to other particular businesses or people is n't a key factor to success .
I now thoroughly understand why my former employer moved their entire business , including providing handsome travel and housing packages for then-current employees , from the Bay Area up to the suburbs of Seattle .
The first big warning sign was when I saw that along with other fees and taxes , a CA LLC with absolutely no income is charged an $ 800 fee by the state every single year .
This is four times or more of the initial fee in other states , and most other state only charge a legitimate filing fee for subsequent years -- along the lines of $ 50 .
The business taxes , plus the sales taxes , plus the income taxes , plus ridiculously high cost of living all add up to a massive inequity in ROI compared with other locations , and in return you get to live in a state on the verge of bankruptcy and your non-local business gets essentially no boost in sales due to its location .
The single reason why I 'm considering incorporating here is because if my business does n't work out , this location has more jobs for my somewhat unique specialty compared with other locations .
I can only see that lasting for so long , though .</tokentext>
<sentencetext>I grew up in WI, lived in Seattle for seven years, and am now in San Francisco.
I'm fairly familiar with the laws regarding businesses in all three states; I started an LLC in Seattle that I never really did anything with due to my day job, while now I've been completely dedicated to a personal project for eight months and am looking into starting a real business out of it.
While there are trade-offs between WA and WI -- WA has better business and tax laws, while WI has lower cost-of-living in many cases -- CA is quite clearly dead last in starting a business where physical proximity to other particular businesses or people isn't a key factor to success.
I now thoroughly understand why my former employer moved their entire business, including providing handsome travel and housing packages for then-current employees, from the Bay Area up to the suburbs of Seattle.
The first big warning sign was when I saw that along with other fees and taxes, a CA LLC with absolutely no income is charged an $800 fee by the state every single year.
This is four times or more of the initial fee in other states, and most other state only charge a legitimate filing fee for subsequent years -- along the lines of $50.
The business taxes, plus the sales taxes, plus the income taxes, plus ridiculously high cost of living all add up to a massive inequity in ROI compared with other locations, and in return you get to live in a state on the verge of bankruptcy and your non-local business gets essentially no boost in sales due to its location.
The single reason why I'm considering incorporating here is because if my business doesn't work out, this location has more jobs for my somewhat unique specialty compared with other locations.
I can only see that lasting for so long, though.</sentencetext>
	<parent>http://www.semanticweb.org/ontologies/ConversationInstances.owl#comment09_05_27_2214246.28117193</parent>
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